Orthodox Father tells all on Jay Dyer and Ortho-Bro Community!

All right. So, God bless you all. We are here right now. Let me fix this phone. And the microphone should be on now. So, we have a very controversial figure coming on. A lot of people reached out to me on Twitter via phone call. Uh, lots of people reached out and told me that this brother's a schismatic, schismatic. Uh, ignore my nice New York accent. And I spoke to this brother on the phone and he broke down to us his situation and he, he made so much sense that I figured if people are going to call him these nasty names, well then you have an opportunity today to come and prove it. So to Nikolai and all the people on Twitter who are going around slandering this man, today will be your opportunity for you to tell it to his face and prove it. He already broke down his story and we're going to ask him directly, right? And of course, it makes sense that all the Ortho bro community has manifested against this brother because he has called you guys out. So, it's convenient to just throw him away and call him those names. So, we're going to save the last for best or the best for last, but let's bring in Mhler. Brother Mohler. We have brother Mohler. Introduce yourself real quick, brother Mohler. And then we're bring the best of the best for last. So, go ahead, brother.

>> Yeah. Amen, my brother. So, last week, uh, I saw some videos or some chats on X and then what I said was JP, work your magic and get a hold of this brother who seemed to be going at it with the Ortho Bros. And look at what JP did. He produced a connect and we spoke to uh Father John and found fascinating, uh, his situation and just some of the corrections. And so we're probably going to get technical today, but just to tell you where I'm at in this whole, in this whole arc of the Eastern Orthodox is that uh JP and I kind of took steps out in faith to figure out what exactly some of these the cultic group, not Eastern Orthodoxy, but the Orthor uh group believes and and how they're going about it. And it turns out that we were looking for people who pushed back. Um, and we found somebody who seems to be uh an expert in this field, has been a part of the church forever. So, they, he seems to be a lot more knowledgeable than anybody we'll speak to, but let's see if we're going to get some uh real knowledge.

>> And here we have the the people that are slandering, saying that he's schismatic. Well, you will have your opportunity to prove that fact. Guess what? Guess what? He's here and you're not. And so without further ado, we have Father John. Father John here who's going to break down everything. So Father John, they say you're schizatic. Break it down. Introduce yourself. Let us know what's going on. I know you're a walking history book. I enjoy talking to you on the phone. So go ahead, hit us, brother.

>> I'm Father John Clayool and uh I'm with the Jerusalem Patriarch. I've been with them since uh 1998. I was ordained uh uh in Jerusalem uh at that time and I've been with him ever since. Um I had a church here in Southern California, St. James Orthodox Church located in uh up in the San Bernardino National Forest. Uh and um I don't have that now. Now I'm uh separate and by myself, but uh you know I So anyway, I'm still a priest with the Greek Orthodox Church. I'm not I have never been deposed and I have not been exccommunicated or defrocked in any way. Um uh and I continue to uh talk about what had happened to Patriarch Erinos. And this is the main thing that uh sort of put me into exile was defending patriarch Arena. Um, of course he was my patriarch. I'd never talked to him before. Um, after he became a patriarch, you know, I'm just a priest here in Southern California. Um but uh you have to understand how the the the system works. So that I was contacted later uh in 2006 after uh Patriarch Earos was uh removed from office. This was a really complicated situation and so I didn't know much about it at the time. So I was contacted and then I I ended up talking to his relatives, Patriarch Eraos's relatives, then attorneys, then uh people that were close to him, then monks and uh uh priests and bishops and from what I understood was a really convoluted thing that was very confusing to me that I couldn't figure out. So I had to break it all down. I was also sent thousands of papers, letters, um, uh, you know, uh, texts, uh, all sorts of things that had to do with, uh, this change with Araneos to, uh, Theophilus. Now, they asked me to help him, uh, in defending him, and that's exactly what I did. So, uh, I didn't know how successful I'd be at this or anything. The first thing I did was make a trip over to Israel, um, to Jerusalem. I tried to talk to the police department. I tried to talk to, uh, you know, I tried to talk to, uh, the bishops, but nobody would let us back in there. I tried to talk to Patriarch Arinos, but he was locked up. They had two Muslims that were protecting him. And this was at the patriarchal compound. This was 2008 that this happened. Um, at this time, um, I sort of tried to put things together. I had a list of names of people that I wanted to talk to and I figured I could sort this out and probably get Patriarch Arena released um from his detention at the compound.

>> You know, what was the controversy why he was deposed or removed or what, what, what was behind that?

>> Yeah, that was that was an interesting thing too. Um, it was about two pieces of properties. These are these are hotels and they're lo located in the old city. Uh and uh these these hotels they're 100-year leases were up and uh they're actually 99-year leases but they were up and uh they had to be signed again. So there was this belief that patriarch Arenaos had sold these pieces of property to Jewish people and that was the crime that he had sold something that didn't belong to him. But the funny thing about the Orthodox church is, I don't know if the Roman Catholic Church still does this, but the ortho or Orthodox church does, is the bishop holds the property in his name. So no priest does, no deacon, only bishops. So the bishop of any given area, like if we're were here in the United States, uh for the Greek church, it would be uh Archbishop Alpedaphoros. He holds the property. It is his property. Everything, all the churches in the United States belong to him technically. Okay. Um, so the same would be with patriarch Arena. So it was strange to me that if you know the cannons of the church, um, it was strange to me how he could be in trouble for selling church property to anybody because he owns it. It's his property. Um and the only other reason that you can remove the only reason you can remove a patriarch is by um blasphemy or um heresy. You know, preaching heresy or preaching blasphemy. And then you can be removed because of that reason. But he did none of that. In fact, he didn't sell the property either.

>> Hold on one more.

>> Go ahead.

>> Uh Jim Bob, I recommend you start running your mouth. Uh let's keep it respectful here. Uh I would love nothing more than to talk to you about doctrine. We can go right. We could go talk about your doctrine whenever you want and I'll make you like the schismatic. All right. So keep it respectful because I would love for you to come back when the father's not here and we can talk about your doctrine and we'll see where you stand. Okay. All right. All right. Let's carry on. Go ahead. And just so then the bishop you're saying has the right to sell the the property.

>> Yeah. He can do anything he wants with it. Technically it's his property. So uh but that wasn't what was happening here. Actually nothing was happening. When this is one of the confusing parts when I was there in Israel I you know the the police department said no crime has been committed. I said how could that be? because the patriarchy is really upset. The bishops are upset. They said he did this crime and the police department said, "No, there's there was no crime. We investigated it. There's no crime."

>> And so if you look at court records, if you look anywhere, there is no arrest. There was no arrest and there was no complaint filed uh by by anybody. So, so the church didn't even file a complaint in the jurisdiction in Jerusalem?

>> No, they didn't even file a complaint. There was nothing done. And what happened was any of this talk, uh, the Israeli police just pushed to the side. The Israeli government said nothing happened. So, there were no charges ever brought against him. But here's the problem. By the time I figured all this stuff out, Patriarch Erinos had been deposed. So, they went into to they went into uh uh conference with each other and they decided to depose him. Now, this was really interesting because it was done so fast. You know, you can't do things this this fast. This is how I knew it was orchestrated. And there was a problem here because it took less than a month for them to do this whole thing. So by the time the police reports came out that he had done nothing wrong, they had already deposed him completely.

>> So let me ask you this, father. So has any of the higherups declared you a schismatic? Has anyone said here's a letter or whatever you guys do that I So no one has declared you a schismatic. Only the ortho bros. That's it.

>> No, no, nobody's nobody's called me a schismatic. You can't be a schismatic and be part of the same church you're in. You can be an exile, which is what I am, or what's called in Greek a copos, which means a a priest uh without a head. I don't have a bishop. So, you know, that that's what I am.

>> So, got it. So because you're in that realm of things, what they're doing, the orthobros, is that they're weaponizing that and saying you're a schismatic when there's actually no documentation of a higher up saying that you are. At best, what you have is the ortho bro uh who I think is an antichrist. Jay Dyer saying it and then we have his minions who can't defend their doctrines like Jim Bob in the comment section, right? We have their minions saying you're schismatic, but we don't have any documentation of any higher up or your superiors saying that you're schismatic. What you essentially have is you're in limbo, you're in exile, but no documentation saying you're schismatic. It's not an official statement by the church,

>> right? They sort of uh this is a a thing that the Orthodox church sometimes does to priests is they push them out um and they don't come they don't allow the priest uh satisfaction of a court hearing or anything like that. So, uh, and and this is this is sort of a common thing because we've had this happen throughout the history of the church where priests get get pushed out. And, um, that's the same thing that that pretty much happened to me. And because I wouldn't back down, I kept saying, "No, there's something wrong here." And I had figured out eventually what happened. And

>> now, this is the fruit of Ortho, bro, right here. This is the fruit. Take a look at this, father. This guy has a Look at this. This is This is what we're dealing with here.

>> Uh now, Father, we did have a caller. Uh we could see if he's respectful, if he has a question or something to say. Uh I can bring him in just with the audio because I don't want to see anybody. Uh

>> sure.

>> So, we'll bring him in with the audio.

>> Okay.

>> All right. So, got it. All right. Chase, you're backstage. You could speak your audio only. Uh we have the father here on the on the air. How's it going?

>> Yeah, it's going good. Um, I'm curious. Have you def I have a couple like questions, but have you defined orthobro yet? Like what is that? What does that mean?

>> Yeah, an orthobro is anybody that doesn't show the fruit of true orthodoxy.

>> Do you believe orthodoxy is true?

>> And an orthobro is also somebody who's afraid to join up the panel to debate me on doctrine. That's that's

>> Yeah, I'm I'm here in the panel right now. So I'm apparently I'm not an ortho bro. Unfortunately,

>> real quick, you said true orthodoxy. Wait, can I ask? You said true orthodoxy. What is true orthodoxy?

>> Chase, you can ask when I finish.

>> Now, since this is not a panel on doctrine itself, we're speaking on another topic, right? We're interviewing Father John. You showing up here doesn't count. Now, if you want, I can go live tomorrow and I would be more than happy to host you on my channel to debate me on a topic such as intercession of the saints, the sinlessness of Mary, or something along those lines. But this is not this live stream. So, if you have a question for Father John, you can go ahead.

>> Well, well, real quick, and I do, but you said someone who doesn't show the fruits of true orthodoxy. So, you just listed things you don't believe orthodoxy. Can I finish? You don't believe orthodoxy is true. you believe were incorrect and we're heretical. Is that correct?

>> I would say that uh when it comes to what biblical Christianity is, orthodoxy would would showcase that. So, for example, when it comes to love, Bible tells us what love is. And if you're a true Christian and you're Orthodox, you would you would display those things.

>> Does a true Christian believe in the sinlessness of Mary, the intercession of the saints?

>> I would say that there could be differences and I would say you're still a true Christian. Yes, but ultimately that's up to me.

>> But real quick, why don't you ask the father here what he thinks an orthobro is? He he's mixed up with them maybe meaning online and stuff, you know, he's gone at it with them. Why don't you ask him what he thinks?

>> Yeah, I was just JP was making the claims. Yeah. Um, what does ortho bro mean to you?

>> Yeah. I don't I mean, you want to answer that, father? I thought they were going to come in here.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking John.

>> So, this is what you came up here to ask Father John about.

>> That's one. Yeah, that's one question. I have I have a couple, but yes. So once he defines it, once he defines it, we'll go to your next one. Go ahead, Father John. What do you define as ortho?

>> What I find uh that that is really hard to to uh understand with Jay Dyer and the Orthobros is the um it's not the title of Orthob has nothing to do with it. it is that Jay Dyer's audience uh that he has um are a lot of them are people that come in from uh Alex Jones and um a lot of these guys that have started moving toward the Orthodox church um are people that are not interested in Christ per se. what they're interested in is a place to have a home for their prejudice. Uh the things that they they want in their life. And this is what I have a problem with a lot of these guys that I see on uh on X that are talking to other people. First of all, the it it's so it's actually just so uncchristian the way they speak.

>> Well, can you define orthob before you get into that? Can you define it, please? I I just heard people who like Alex Jones. I have a cradle Romanian priest who baptized me seven years ago who likes Alex Jones.

>> My brother, we orthobro is up to interpretation. Now, can you

>> But you're using the claims. So, the terms I want to know what it means. It's important, right?

>> It's up It's up to interpretation, brother. Objective there. I told you what it means to me.

>> No, no, John. What does it mean? I'm asking John what it means. It

>> told you what it means to him. He said, "No, he didn't. He just started saying I'm telling you now this is what I'm saying. Orthobro is sort of like uh uh well first of all it's a stolen name. This was used years and years and years ago by uh Greek people in Greece uh that were a young a young couple, a husband and wife that were angry with the church and also a lot of times with the Greek government and Orthob was the title of these guys that had were very serious and uh were sort of scary people that that actually defended the church and also would attack the church sometimes when bishops did the wrong thing. They would they would call them out in public. Um anyway,

>> what does it mean when you use it now? What does it mean?

>> Somehow it got moved to um you know to being part of uh Jay Dyer's thing which the name the name is fine. I don't have a problem with that. What the pro what the problem is is what Orthobo represents. They represent a very extreme uh part of uh I don't know what you call it like a a cult-like atmosphere that is people who are anti-semites. They're possib they're a lot of times they're misogynists. They're racist. And I hear it in their voices. I can see it in the things they print. You guys forget that while you're writing stuff down all the time, you're leaving a trail that that lasts for.

>> Okay. So, the definition is anti-semitic and racist. Is that what what the definition is?

>> That's no. Okay. Here's what I'm saying to you. These are not people coming into the church or a lot of them aren't. I'm not saying everybody isn't, but a lot of the orthob you know what orthobro means? Are you familiar with the term?

>> I'm asking you. Yes, I'm familiar with people using it, but it seems like it seems like people just use it to say I don't like you.

>> You said you know what it is. So, what does it mean to

>> I know the term. I'm asking for the definition.

>> You, bro, since you're familiar with

>> it means I don't like your orthodox and I don't like you. That's how people use it.

>> Okay. So, you're saying

>> I've never heard a definition.

>> I don't like you. That's what you think it means?

>> Yes. So, I've asked for a definition and now I've heard it sounds like

>> you said I don't use the term. So, you just term. You said you knew of the term. So, how being familiar with the term and saying it has a nebulous meaningless uh shapeless definition. I'm trying. Can I finish?

>> You don't know what it is. I'm ask for a definition. Do you have one? Yes or no? Simple.

>> There is no definition because people like I just asked nebulous terms. I don't use the term. Do you understand?

>> But you know of the term and you just don't know what it means.

>> Um do you do you know

>> why are you asking me a question? I asked you

>> because because I'm trying to explain to you.

>> Do you you don't understand someone saying I don't use a term. I'm familiar with the term. I'm asking for your definition. Do you know what a traditional Catholic is?

>> Do you understand what's happening right now?

>> Bro, yes or no? You're incapable of answering questions.

>> Why is this so hostile? I thought this was supposed to be

>> hostile, bro. This is me at a two. So, pick up your energy.

>> You had a two. You at a two is yelling, dude. I want to be respectful. I don't want to yell.

>> You got to pick up your energy. You need more testosterone. Listen,

>> I have plenty of energy, man. I'm just trying to stay calm. So, again, use the term.

>> All right. Remove this dude. He can't answer a question.

>> No, we can't.

>> If you guys are going to be this clownish where you don't know what an orthobro is, you literally call yourselves orthob bros. This is what you do. This is the sphere. The internet version of Eastern Orthodoxy. If you're this out of the loop, don't pull up here to try to ask for definitions and I ask you for one and you can't give me one. So, do you guys know what trads are? Does anybody here know what a traditional Catholic is? in in the debate sphere. Do you guys know what that is? If you know what a tradath is, then you should know what an orthobro is. An orthob came over here.

>> Father John, he didn't come here to prove how you're an exile uh schismatic. He came here to ask you to define what an orthobro is.

>> This is what goes through these guys' mind. Let me come up here to ask you what an orthobro is. Father John, I want you to know we got your back here today. No one's gonna pull any garbage.

>> Thank you, guys.

>> Hey, Jimbo. Jimbo, real quick, Jimbo, you're real smart in the comments, bro. If you're telling me that you don't know what orthob is, it's what you call internet orthodoxy. Remember internet orthodoxy where you're telling me that uh the church is uncomfortable with this presence online that's part of debate and debate converts people. That's what orthob is. Okay. So, for the last time, if you guys are going to act silly about this topic and you don't know what a trad, you haven't debated this stuff, you don't know what we're talking about, go pick something up, go learn as that's a term that you've embraced, okay? Don't pull this thing where you pull up here and you're going to ask 20 questions. It's one for one. You pull up to ask a question, I'm going to ask you. If you're going to act stupid and act dumb, then this is not the conversation for you. You obviously know the father's here because he's literally getting cussed out and threatened online, right? This is what what we would call a threat. Whatever is being ths at him, that's orthobro activity. Any other Eastern Orthodox would just ignore him and say, "Well, he's in exile. I don't really take his his his word as authority." They might even say, "Hey, he's meaningless." But they wouldn't come after him and start ripping him to shreds. Unless you disagree with him. So if you're here to disagree with him on the topics, then why don't you press him on the actual topics? Other than that,

>> father, if bro has no definition by his own admission, why is the caller asking people what it is?

>> Exactly. He already knows what it is. He's just But this is the same game that they play, bro. Definitions. This is the same game.

>> And and and I don't understand how supposed Christians can treat another human being like this. Like look at how they're treating this father in the comment section. This is very disgusting. Instead of coming up here and pro

>> Jimbo Jimbo, this is me at a two. Pick up your energy. This is not hostile, bro. This is matching your energy. If you can't match mine, then that's your fault, bro. Okay? I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from, I'm talking straight. You're playing games. If you don't know what orthobro is, then leave the live. This has nothing to do with you. If this is just a fictional thing and father's just father John here is just talking about something that doesn't happen that there is no e orthobosphere or ether or or universe that we're talking about and it doesn't exist then just click off bro but I notice that you're the most you're the one that's commenting the most here on a topic that you say doesn't exist. If it doesn't exist then get out bro.

>> Father I want to go on the record and tell you you have a home here. You can come here as much as you like. Just reach out to me. You heard?

>> Thank you JP. I appreciate it. Thank you.

>> We interrupted you, but if you want to elaborate a little bit more on some of the things, for instance, I asked you before we started, how did you first interact with Jay Dyer and the Ortho Bros.?

>> Oh, Jay Dyer. Uh, I was I didn't know really much about Jay Dyer when I first uh, you know, was on X. Uh well, I've been on X for years, way before Jay Dyer, but uh but when I first had anything to do with Jay Dyer, he had written a thing about uh a Catholic saint uh that had just been made s a saint. I'm pretty sure his name is St. Carlo. and they had a photo of him and he was in a uh or a a video of him in a in a sealed uh casket that was clear that people could see through the top of it. Um and he he started to disparage uh uh uh this this young man that was uh had just recently been made a saint. and he was saying bad things about him and that uh this couldn't possibly be this way and uh I don't think that's his body and I said

>> father just to interrupt for a couple of seconds didn't Jay Dyer say that the uh the the Orthodox guys the the guys in Egypt that got their heads that they were probably burning in hell or they weren't saved or something like that there wasn't

>> Yeah because yes and that's a sad thing isn't it because

>> listen to me, you know, I'm going to make this clear for everybody that just from my opinion, man, you can't say stuff like that. If you're saying, you know, and I speak Arabic, so when I'm hearing the guy in the front of the line getting his head cut off and he's he's um and I've seen all these videos, they send them to me first. All the people that live down there in Egypt, they were sending me the most horrible things I've seen. I mean, bad stuff. They set bombs off in the back of churches. I saw a woman blown apart and uh uh she was pregnant and part of her fetus was laying on the ground along with her body. I mean, I've seen horrible things down there. You're telling me, you're telling me right now that woman's not in heaven with God? Well, you're completely mistaken. Just because they're Coptic, you have no idea what you're talking about. And you know, if you believe like that, you think you're the only one. You and your little group is going to heaven. Everybody else is going to hell. You know, God God does not look at things like that. That's a filthy way to think or to look at other people. You can never do that stuff. Never. And God sees everything. That's what I mean. Orthobros, they've got this attitude. It is not Christian. How do you yell at people, you know, and cuss at them and call them names? That's not even our doing.

>> Amen.

>> And they repeat the same thing all the time when they're calling me out. They say, "Well, that don't talk to this guy. He's schismatic." Well,

>> you know, I'm here anyway, so it doesn't matter what they think, right?

>> And you're going to be here as many times as you like. Welcome to the family, Father John. I love talking to people like you. But let me read a couple of things, Father John. I got a couple of super chats and somebody requested up. So let me read this. Goddess the great physician said, "Father, no disrespect, but it had nothing to do with criminal action. It had to do with violating canon and the decision that was upheld by the panor. You're in schism because you refused to recognize the current patriarch."

>> No, that's not true.

>> All right.

>> The patriarch was taken over by a coup deta. It was led by two people. I'm going to tell you who they are, and you can look up their names on Wikipedia. They're on there. George Tennant. These are Greek people by the way, Greeks. They were part of this conspiracy to overthrow Aaronos and put Theophilos in place. And that was done by a man by the name of George Tennant. Okay. Uh George Tenant is was the CIA director all the way from the Clinton era through uh George Bush to 2004. That was one year before he was he was done being a CIA director one year before um Aaronos was out of office or was deposed. The next guy was Nicholas Patrick Theos and he is a Greek American uh that uh that was the ambassador for the United States to Qatar. Okay. So he he I have his letters and you know who else was in Qatar at the same time was uh Bishop uh Theophilos. He was the bishop for the Jerusalem patriarchy in Qatar. And there's a letter from Pharaoh to uh to um uh Theophilos asking him if he wanted to be patriarch. I have the letter

>> signed by Nicholas Theos. So this thing was all orchestrated

>> and he Nicholas Patrick Theos after he was done being the uh ambassador to Qatar he worked directly for the patriarchade of Jerusalem until 2017. That was two years before they opened the doors to the new embassy. This whole thing was to move the embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, the US embassy. Now, you might ask, why is that important? The thing of moving the embassy was a slap in the face to the Palestinians because they considered that their their land, you know, that it was theirs. And um but the Jewish people wanted it for them. And the only way to prove that and to do that was moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. And they did it. You know why they couldn't do it three administrations before? Because they didn't have the land. So where did they get the land? They got the land from uh from the Greek Orthodox Church. They actually sold the land to Israeli developers. Israeli developers developed the land because around Jerusalem, they needed a lot of property in order to build other hotels and the infrastructure that would support the uh embassy. So I is would if the bishop uh wouldn't have sold this land, you still think that it wouldn't have been an effort to remove him and replace him or you still think that

>> Well, it just seemed it seemed suspicious that they accused him of stealing land and yet over the years over all these years from 2005 until um well they're still selling it now, but they've sold almost a billion dollars worth of church land

>> uh to Israeli developers and a lot of it is church land that had leases to Palestinian homeowners.

>> Wow.

>> Well, now then

>> and then those kicked out by the Jews that went there to take the land.

>> Well, real quick, Father John, somebody did call in. So, let' let's see what this brother wants to ask. How's it going? Demetrius. Demetrius.

>> Yeah, Demetrius. Uh, it's going good. I've been listening. I I don't know much about Father John. I have heard uh things, you know. I've um I recently converted to Orthodoxy after being catechuman for about year and a half, two years. Uh and this whole Ortho bro cult thing I've been hearing about. It's it's interesting because a lot of the a lot of uh good information that I've gotten have been from who you call the the extreme people. And

>> my my concern is I I heard you say something like there's a bunch of anti-semitism. Now what is is anti-ionism to you the same as anti-semitism?

>> Now Demetrius John will be able to answer that question.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But since since um you did get a lot of good information by the quote unquote Orthobos, would you like to put that in the test 101? You and I, we could talk doctrine

>> to to a degree. Yeah. To a degree. Yeah. I'm not I could talk about the sinlessness of Mary and intercession of the saints. So we can put your knowledge.

>> Definitely.

>> Sure. Cool. Definitely.

>> Go ahead, Father John.

>> Yeah. Uh he's he's saying the veneration of the Theoto and how we venerate saints. We can do that. We can do that after Father John uh departs from this live stream. Out of respect for him, that's not what this is about.

>> But ask well it was it was directly this was actually directly to Father John as I was listening to your to your uh stream. He mentioned that to the Ortho bro cult there's this extremism of anti-semitism. That's what I heard and I was like whoa. Okay, that I've never heard that. I've heard of I I definitely agree with anti-Zionism. That's the one thing I I'm definitely a not a Zionist, but never heard any any words of anti-semitism uh as an ethnic Jews and just themselves. If you're Jewish, something's wrong. I've never heard of that. In fact, I've heard from the Orthod cult that you call that we actually the Orthodox church uh would want actually Jews to accept Christianity. That's part of the the doctrine. Uh so that was one that was one thing where I was like, "Okay, wow, that was weird. And the other one,

>> Demetrius, one thing at a time. Okay. Go ahead. Go with the first.

>> Okay. Which one are we addressing? Tell me. Guess

>> the first one was uh I heard you you say that there's this extremism where these young men are using this Ortho bro cult to get out their anti-semitism to to reveal their deep down hatred.

>> He wants to know he wants to know what you're what activity you're calling anti.

>> Where did that come from? That's what Okay. Yeah. As far as the Zionist thing, I you know that's off to the side. It's like a you know uh the thing is I hear in a lot of these people when they're talking that they're transferring uh some of the people are transferring the term Zionism and they're saying well you you know we don't want Zionists. We no Christian can be a Zionist. And that's true. I mean you know that you really have to be like that. You can't be a Zionist and be a Christian uh per se. You you can uh like I do I support Israel in taking care of I would rather have Israel taking care of uh the holy sites and the Christians in Israel the nation state of Israel because when we when you say the word Israel we can talk about Israel in different matters you're talking about the nation state political state of Israel you back that state in doing certain things.

>> Yeah.

>> In the sense of of growth.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. And and you're right.

>> Would that be Zionist? Would that be Zionism?

>> Uh well, yeah. If if you're supporting the nation state in the sense that

>> um you're agreeing with their their rubrics, then you're a Zionist and you shouldn't be doing that. I do it. I'm a the friend of a friend. I mean the the How's that saying go? The friend of a friend is uh

>> enemy of mine or something or the enemy of my

>> Yeah. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That type of thing. Is that what you're saying? You use it.

>> For me, I would rather have I know getting, you know, all the Arabs want to get rid of Israel completely. The the country of Israel, the Jews being there, they want to do that. But I don't want the Muslims running Jerusalem only because it'll end up like Constantinople, God forbid, you know. So I don't want to see that. So, uh, you know, I'm Palestinian. Half of my family is, you know, uh, half of me is Palestinian. Um, I was raised by, uh, my family, uh, you know, and, uh, we learned how to speak Arabic and stuff. And in the ' 67 war, I was like 16 years old and I watched on TV as they talked about the war there. And my family had been my entire family in Jerusalem or in uh in Israel and part of them in Syria had been killed during that war. So I have no love loss for for Israel, for the Jews.

>> Okay. And I, you know, and honestly, you know, I don't believe it was the right thing to do to give the Jews the land in 48. You know, I just don't think that should have been done. You know, I don't mind the Jews living there, but I don't think they should give them their own country. So,

>> that being said, again, I think they're the safest way to do that. Here's what I see in the Ortho Bros. in some of them. I'm not saying all of them, you know, all but some

>> are very

>> anti-Jew and they talk anti-Jew. They they they

>> they they they speak it, you know, and they write it down. I mean, it's not hard to see.

>> So So let me let me hear you for a second. There's always going to be something.

>> Demetrius, your mic is manifesting, Demetrius.

>> Oh, sorry. Can Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? I have headphones on. U now you're good. Now you're good.

>> When you say some, sure, there's going to be some in every group you say. There's always going to be some even the cats, you know, different groups. There's always going to be those some that you know, we that aren't speaking for what you call the the whole obviously. Now, in the sense of what you're saying, this this extremism that's coming from the orthobro cult, when you say it that way, it's as if it's taught to these people to be that way. It's not. There's always going to be those people who try to commit.

>> So, like I'm saying, I learned a lot from Jay Dyer. I learned a lot from, you know, Andrew Wilson, Jim Bob, all these these people that I learned a lot from them. And I've never heard one of them speak of anti-semitism ever. I've never heard one of them make salv claims. You made another statement where uh the the ortho bros are coming in saying you're going to go to hell if you don't do. Not one of those people who you call the leaders of the

>> or slow down.

>> Yeah, Yeah.

>> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Slow down. J said the Copic Orthodox that got their head sliced off are in hell. I don't real I'm trying to be We're trying to be open and transparent. Your group that you just mentioned, right? You said

>> I I get a lot of information from who you guys call the ortho bros. I I'm 47 years old. I'm an ortho bro. A lot of those guys are young kids probably coming in. But yeah, but what I'm trying to say is you recognize that there is a movement. You just you you talked about it sounds like the three people you think is are figureheads for it and then you also compared it or in the universe of comparing it hold on brother to trad and and here's the thing I I wasn't brought into orthodoxy through any of those guys. I I actually I I was a baptized a ro a Roman Catholic. uh grew up as a young kid, you know, not really practicing Protestant for 25 30 years of my life and I listened to Jonathan Puja for about a year straight just listen to symbolism. He's who brought me to orthodoxy and then when I understood orthodoxy I started hearing about Jay Dyer and I started listening to debates and it made more sense. There was more of this factual um understanding of what we're actually against. You know, Jonathan B's great, but when you hear the what you got and I don't call him the Orthod, you guys named him that, you know, they it wasn't the I don't even think they called themselves that. It was almost as if it was just a label that was given to them by who you guys called an extreme group. It's almost as it's. So, to me, it's funny in the sense that you it's like you you're giving them a name and then throwing labels on them that I haven't heard from these figureheads. There might be some kids that convert and say stupid things. Of course, there's going to be. But from the three the three figure heads I said who you consider the leaders of the cult, I've never heard salvific claims and I've never heard uh anti-semitism. Yeah.

>> Well, I mean, if you're not aware of the salvific claims that they make, then then you're going to have to you are admitting you are admitting that there's a movement that everybody knows that's called the Orthobros. You just disagree. Okay. disagree as extreme because there's extreme you can I can Yeah, I can say you guys are being extreme in aense in the same way.

>> Yeah,

>> you can use the language.

>> I can understand that. Yeah.

>> Yeah. But we're saying is it exists. Let's stop acting like in the chat that it doesn't. That's the point. You can say, "Hey, I don't like your descriptions. I don't like how you're framing it." either you know whatever Father John is saying or what JP says or I say or whoever CK does it that that's not it. Let's not kid ourselves that there is an internet movement that is happening and that's what they call it. If we don't I really think that is good.

>> Correction correction correction. Uh it it seems like with the Coptic Orthodox, he said they weren't martyrs, not that they uh went to heaven or hell because they're outside the church.

>> But there was somebody else that that that he said didn't go to heaven despite them dying. I wouldn't ever heard him say that. He said I've listened to a lot of his debates and he's always said he can't make a selfish claim. God will choose who he chooses. He believes you're in the This is the true church. I'm going to agree with that. I'm in a true church. I can't make we can't make self correction. He did say he said that they were not uh martyrs, right?

>> Okay. I could agree with that.

>> Which is still antichrist because the Bible tells us what a martyr is.

>> Well, you're martyr if you die for Christ. You're martyr if you die for Christ. And Christ, the body of the church is the body of Christ. If you're dying for the church, you're a martyr. If you're dying outside of the church right there, the body of Christ

>> isn't the reason why they were, you know, unelected because they were Christian.

>> But so if a Protestant dies and martyrs himself for Protestantism, am I going to consider himself a martyr for the body of Christ? No. I don't believe that the Protestant church is

>> for Protestant Were they martyed for Protestantism or were they martyed for Christ?

>> Well, if they weren't part of the Orthodox Church, they were not martyed for the body of Christ. They were martyed for a belief that they were created on their own. They were martyed for a heretical uh schizatic belief.

>> What's that?

>> So a So a different Jesus.

>> A different a different They might call Jesus, but it's a different god. Yeah. Just like Islam worship worships a different god. Yeah. If there if you're not accepting Jesus in the trinitarian true essin nature, the three distinct bodies carrying the nature. uh you're not worshiping the same god. And

>> Demetrius Demetrius, are you aware that some Orthodox patriarchs believe that the Orthodox uh believe in the same God as Islam?

>> I don't I I got to look into that. I don't know. My my battery's at five. I'm going to plug my phone in. Sorry, guys. One sec.

>> Uh I don't know uh where we want to go, JP. is Father John was telling us that the the person that was named as a saint was the young man. Father John, could you tell us kind of cut off that story where you

>> Carlo? His name was Carlo. Uh that was his first name and uh uh I'll refer to him as St. Carlo, but I forget what his last name was, but he was a young man. I think he was 16 years old. He documented everything that happened to him as he had this stage four cancer all the way until the day he died. It was really uh some beautiful writing.

>> Audus. Yeah. Yeah. And uh you know wonderful young man if you read about him and stuff it's really um it's really a neat thing. And so what you said was you engaged with uh Jay Dar online because they were talking about him and he had made some comments. So what was the comment?

>> Yeah, he made some comments that were uh I I thought were really inconsiderate and uh I told him

You shouldn't do that, and I sort of made light of it by saying, "These are the people you're trying to, you know, convert, you know, that you want to convert." So, essentially saying you're speaking to an audience that you're trying to convert over to Eastern Orthodoxy, so to speak. You know, a certain way about it's sort of strange with that.

The other thing that's weird about Orthodoxy, too, is now I've been Orthodox for my whole life, and I've traveled the world. I've been to a lot of monasteries. I have been to plenty of churches throughout the world. And I've talked to a lot of biblical scholars and theologians in the Orthodox Church, which there are not a lot of, you know. Most of them are in monasteries, by the way.

The interesting thing is that we never had an apologist. We don't have apologists in the Orthodox Church. So this is a brand new thing. But it seems strange to me that you would debate people and, you know, debate them in the way of talking to them about their church and you talking about yours and explaining things and then trying to, what, what is that whole purpose of doing that if not for trying to convert somebody? But I think in sort of the way that Jay Dyer does it, sometimes it can be pretty rough on the other people that he's debating, you know, which, you know, I mean, if you want to have a debate like that, that's fine. I just don't know what that does necessarily for Orthodoxy.

Here's the other thing: this disrespect online toward each other for people talking to the orthobros. And I can't tell who's orthobro and who is not, except some guys have it in their name now. It's really troublesome in the way that they argue and the anger they carry with them all the time. I don't understand that either. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that people would be so angry and speak that way. It doesn't seem...

And we hear, Father, we hear of other priests. I've spoken to priests as well. But we hear them say a lot that they tell their new converts that they shouldn't be kind of consuming or watching this kind of doctrine or following their lead. And, you know, I know that you're in exile now, but what are your thoughts? Would you be giving the same piece of advice to new Christians?

I think it's important that you sort of stick around your church. I wouldn't, I don't think it's a bad place to evangelize, really. Orthodoxy, I think it's a great place to do it. It's just the problem is, okay, so you got these new people and they're interested in Orthodoxy, right? And all of a sudden they come onto X and they get a bunch of Orthodox stuff, and then they hear these guys arguing about this stuff and calling each other names and thinking, you know how young guys are. I mean, you know, when you're in your 20s, man, if you can hear somebody that you think is Orthodox and he's cussing out another guy that's a Mormon, you know, he thinks, "Oh, this is cool, man. This is what Orthodoxy is. I want to be Orthodox."

Well, is it worth to use a four-letter word? A four-letter word that offends somebody? I mean, it blows my mind how you think.

Uh, try to remove your earpiece and talk with the speaker on your phone. Maybe that'll be better because that's terrible. It's terrible.

Sorry. Let me put my headphones away.

And, Father John, we are approaching the one-hour mark. Where's my headphones? I don't want to hold you for too long, but I've enjoyed the conversation already. So then essentially we're going to, we can dismiss you because it's already going to be an hour, and then we'll just bring the knuckleheads on who want to debate. But Father John, you have my number. I want to have you on. So I want you to continue speaking for the rest of these remaining eight minutes. So, break this down for me. So, because somebody was removed, right? That doesn't mean that you yourself are now a schismatic, right? That's not how that works.

No. I'd have to be deposed or excommunicated by a council of bishops. I mean, it takes six bishops to depose me. And they, you know, and it of course have to be from Jerusalem. But if Patriarch Bartholomew wanted to depose me with his council, you know, I wouldn't have a problem with that if they wanted to do that. I mean, I don't want to, I'd rather have a place in the church.

I do have a question for you from the... I think it's for me. Can you explain why the EO Church teaches that any group calling themselves Christian or martyrs? My understanding is the early church can recognize saints and martyrs. So, only, so basically they're saying only the EO Church can recognize saints and martyrs.

Yeah, that's actually not true. And if you watch Patriarch Bartholomew, he's very close to the Roman Catholic Church now, and he's talking to the Pope constantly. This isn't a new thing. This has been going on, but it's that we seem closer now to joining with the Roman Catholic Church than we ever have before. I'm not saying we should do that, you know, just jump in, of course not. We should really make sure we're able to do this the right way. But my hope is that, you know, this whole thing, this whole movement is based on being loving toward other people. You can say what you want about the Roman Catholic Church or about the Coptics or about the Ethiopian Church. You can say anything you want about them, but they share, they do share the same God. And if you talk to Patriarch Bartholomew, he'll tell you that. And he's the ecumenical patriarch of the entire Orthodox canonical church. And this is how he feels about it. He's even said it. And so does El Pedophorus.

Yeah, real quick on that point, Father John. So if the patriarch, or at least it seems like the head of the head, the patriarch, he feels that way, and somebody people in the church are saying, "No, he's actually being demonically led or that's not of the Holy Spirit." What do you do as an Eastern Orthodox? In other words, if you feel that way...

That's a problem, isn't it? Because that takes the heads of the church to determine that it's what is being done with this. This is why the canons of the church, this gold book here, that thing is tiny print. All the way through that thing from the start to the finish is all the laws of the church since the apostles. The apostles all the way to all the councils to the saints are all in that book there. And you have to know that book in order to use it. So a lot of the things that Bartholomew says seem to be heretical sometimes, and actually sometimes they are when he talks about the Muslims. It sort of drives me crazy. But, you know, look, even with saints, okay? Saints are not prophets. Prophets are always perfect in what they say. Saints can make mistakes and they can say things that are not correct. It doesn't mean that they're not a saint. You know, you weigh them before you glorify them or canonize them, but you know what their things are. But some saints say some things that are just crazy, and then other ones, you know, they don't do that.

And lastly, here, so let's just say in the future, I know you know people are going to think that it's crazy to say, but let's just say for whatever reason you were to unite with the Catholic Church and that were to happen, and you're Orthodox, how is it that you could deal with this move that you disagree with? In other words, if this move happens, let's say it's a majority of the bishops, as an Orthodox, are you allowed to say, "Nope, never," and schism?

Man, it's according to how the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church get together. If there were some really serious differences between the two churches, that's what holds us apart, right? Because we've removed the anathemas between both of us. So, but we have this thing where we don't go into each other's church. Now, the Roman Catholics say you can go into an Orthodox church if they'll give you communion. That's completely fine with us. But, you know, Orthodox can come over and get communion in Roman Catholic churches. So, you know, it's again, it's what happens when they join together. So if the councils decide, both councils decide that they're going to join together, then honestly, for individuals that don't like it, then they have to leave the church. But they're not, if you're a layman, you're not in schism. You're just leaving the church and going to another church that you find that you've there. I will tell you this: if the Eastern Orthodox Church, the canonical church, joins with the Roman Catholic Church, there will be a lot of churches that will walk away, including, I think, the Romanian Church, the Georgian Church.

Just to finish with this, then, so they can then disagree with the bishop and schism?

Well, no, not if the councils have decided. They could. Yes, they could do that, and that's what they do. In fact, the things that we see today, like the true genuine Orthodox Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, that's schismatic, right? It's a separate church under the name of the Greeks like that. But they did the same thing. They looked at the canonical Orthodox Church and said, "Wow, you guys are really out of line," and they walked away. It wasn't to start their own so they could make their own money. It was because they decided that it was right for them to split. And there's a lot of small churches like that, some in Lebanon, some in Egypt, that are completely separate from the rest of the church.

Well, does the church see them as meaning in Christ, or are they...?

No, they see them as schismatics.

So then they would be caught in terms of salvation?

True. True schismatics. Well, Father, we're approaching the hour mark. Father, where can we find you? And will you come back again, my brother, because I want to have you back on? Mhler, I'm sure, would like to have you on.

Yeah, that would be great.

I want to invite you again, man.

Yeah, thank you.

You had a good time here, Father.

Yeah, I enjoyed.

Can I ask a question before he leaves?

What you say, humanism? So everything I heard you saying was leading toward like ecumenism, like just getting rid of the actual doctrine of the church and just blending everything together so we could be, or something. Is that what I'm hearing you say? It's like we have to...

Look, I say that this in closing. I do not agree with that. I believe that the Roman Catholic Church has to make a lot of moves over to the Orthodox side. That's the way I would want to go. Hey, I'm already on the outside. If I don't like what they're doing, I'm just staying away. So, you know, and some of this stuff, you can't just, we can't just blend in. And that's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid the churches are going to go, "Let's start like this. Let's just have each other go to each other's church and they receive communion." I don't agree with that at all.

Not even a tiny bit. Not even.

God bless you because I want to do... open it up for a little bit. So, because I have another rental, but you have my number.

I hope you... Father, I hope you had a good time, brother.

I did. I did. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Take care.

See you guys later.

All right. Well, EOS, to the guys that were talking crazy, this is your opportunity to now join and challenge us live. Jim Bob, I want you to click that link so you could face me one on one.

And something I would like to see.

And I'd like to see that. Well, he's a coward. He's a coward. And Demetrius, Demetrius, I'll tell you why he's a coward.

Because I'm going to give you an argument that you're not going to be able to respond to.

I might not. I'm like, I said, I'm a layman here.

Well, it's fine. I'm a layman, too, Demetrius. I'm a stupid, idiotic Protestant, right? That's what they say.

All right. So, Demetrius, where is... Do you believe that your Eastern Orthodox Church is the same church that was in the New Testament all the way up until now? Old doctrines were the same.

As far as the tradition goes, as far as the oral tradition that was passed on through the epistles and through the liturgical process, yes. I believe that that when you look at the history of the way you are supposed to worship properly, yes, it is the same way and established in the same manner. And I think historical facts are showing that more and more. They're seeing older churches they're digging up that have a lot of good images that people want to say.

Yeah, go ahead. Demetrius, who in the first 300 years of the early church taught intercession of the saints?

The intercession of the saints, you know, that's a church...

The intercession of the saints is something I'd have to look more into. But when you want to talk about...

Work with brother. Don't hit me with the "it's something I gotta look into," my brother. Come on.

I have to. As far as... So if we look at the intersection of the stand. So let's look at the icon. So I know the first, as far as I'm understanding, one of the first icons was painted by Luke. Um, so there is there's iconography that has been...

Did Luke pray to that icon?

I'm assuming you got a phone call or your connection dropped. Everybody's connection always drops when... You know, there you have it. Everybody's connection always drops. You... How's it going?

Sup? How are you?

I'm all right. Are you on EO?

Uh, no. I just wanted to expound on one of the things that y'all talked about earlier.

All right. Well, right now we're looking for EOS, my brother. So, um, I appreciate you. Or you're a brother, right? You got a lot.

All right. Cool. A lot of pink there, but I appreciate it. All right. So this is what's going on, real quick. All of this barking, the father was here. Jim Bob is an effeminate who will not click that link to save his life. He's an effeminate. Mr. Jim Bob, we're going to talk about intercession of the saints, and we're going to open up the Bible. Okay? So if you're any...

They always talk real tough in the comments.

Jim Bob is an effeminate.

He's an effeminate. And so now Demetrius randomly had internet connections, you know, as soon as we started talking about intercession of the Saints. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'm sure. But where are you Ortho Bros? Where are you Eastern Orthodox? And guess what? I'm gonna make that father a regular. Guys, to know that. Okay, let's see. I want you guys to know that I'm going to make that father a regular. That father will be here at least once a week. I will see to it. That was only the beginning. And the link is pinned. The link is pinned. So now it is time to atone. Now, here we have Jim Jim Bob. He's manifesting, but he won't click the link to join up and have a discussion. He won't click the link. Now, here we have somebody named Ben. Let's see. Ben, are you Eastern Orthodox?

No, no, no. I just uh I'mma hop off. I just wanted to ask if you guys could pull up canon 15 of the first and second council of Constantinople. Uh, that would answer your question on how he is considered schismatic. That's all I had to say. All right. Have a good day.

Wait. Why didn't you say that when he was here?

Huh?

You said he...

I just hopped on. I just hopped on.

Brother, you're a little too late, Ben. You had an opportunity to confront him. Isn't this crazy? Now everybody has connection issues. Now they're all coming late. They just all hopped on. Do you see what's going on?

Yeah. Waiting for him to leave to join.

And this is this is the fruit of Eastern Orthodoxy. Look at this guy still running his mouth. Still, and has not clicked that link. Why are you so afraid? You think your Jay Dyer Orthodoxy arguments are going to fail?

Yeah, bro. Your ad hominems aren't going to defend your false teachings of the Orthodox Church.

What do you believe, Joe?

What's good, y'all? Um, I'm in Mer server. What's up, Mer? What's up, everybody? Um...

What do you believe?

I'm a non-denom Christian.

Oh, well, Joe, I'll bring you on a little later. We're looking for some...

Let me just say, can I say one thing? Can I say one thing? Cuz in the comments, Jim Bob was running his mouth in the comments.

Go ahead.

And when we were talking about, you know, they're asking the definition of an orthobro. It's almost like stupid is as stupid does. I can't give you a definition per se, but I know when I see one. So when I see somebody talking about people's wives, talking about people's families, mocking them, that type of behavior, I would call that orthobro behavior. You see what I'm saying? Orthodoxy in my opinion is beautiful, but orthobroxy is garbage. And so that's when I'm seeing, when I'm saying orthobroxy, then I say that's garbage. But when I see orthodoxy, orthodoxy is beautiful. You know, we have some Orthodox in the discord that are charitable brothers, you know. So, but when I see people mocking people's lives...

Why Pete was Jim Bob looks exactly, they have similar styles. I'm not Jim Bob.

I know, but I'm saying the beard and everything, similar skin tone. I was...

Yeah, well, you got a beard. I appreciate that. And Mer...

Well, it's not as nice as yours, man. It's, you know...

Appreciate.

All right. All right. Well, well, thank you for that commentary, Joe. Yes, he still has not clicked up. All right. So...

So, wait a minute, Joe. Just so I'm... welcome, by the way, brother. Um, but uh, what's your take on the orthobroxy? Is that... did you stay? Is that yours, bro? You come up with that or what?

Oh, that's mine. But, but listen, listen. It's for everybody. But it's for everybody.

All right, everybody. We got it tagged in the Discord. Orthobroxy belongs to Joe. All right. So then does anybody else? I mean, are people kind of confused on, let's say, the subjective definition, but we're within a world of like, it's not like we're creating no boundaries. We're trying to get you guys. I gave you the comparison of trad, and if you don't know what a trad is, then you're probably not in the debate sphere, backwoods Discord, that's what it is.

Orthodox.

Hey, yo, fix your mic, ho. Fix your mic.

So that's the best way for me to describe it technically. But Joe is saying there's certain activity that follows, and I would say I would genuinely agree with that. So, but that was a W take, Joe.

All right. Well, thank you. Well, what do you believe, brother?

I'm, uh, I am Eastern Orthodox.

Okay, no problem. So, we, uh, I don't know if you came before or after Ho, but Ho, real quick, can you speak up?

Yeah, I'll just let YP go. He's probably more qualified than me. Y'all know who he is.

No problem. All right, no problem. So, YP, YP, do you believe that the early church is exactly as is today?

Yeah. Yes.

Okay. So, who in the early church taught intercession of the saints?

That's going to go straight back to the apostles.

Okay. What apostles taught intercession of the saints?

It's...

We can open up the Bible, too. I love the Bible.

Yeah. Yeah. No. Real quick, real quick, real quick, YP, real quick. I'm being told that you're not a fan of Jay Dyer.

No, he's, uh, he's Orthodox. He's a brother. What do you... I don't know who's saying that. Well, they're saying is that you don't like him in the chat. Is that true or is that false?

Well, uh, I was a fan of his at one time.

I'm looking for Ortho Bros. You're not giving me Ortho Bros.

Well, so, yeah, I told you. I told you I... And you watched my stream with Father John, right?

Oh. Oh, wait. No, this guy is a cool dude, bro. Bro, YP, you gotta... YP, you gotta give me a warning. You almost caught some friendly fire, brother. YP, come on now, man.

Yeah, but real quick, YP, I'm trying to...

He's a cool dude. He's with Father John. He's a cool dude.

Okay, but I'm... I defend Father John because I understand.

YP, you're good, brother. YP, come on, man. You gotta give me a little head.

I'm Orthodox. I thought you were coming back.

No, no, no, no, no. I'm looking for Ortho Bros, brother. A friend of John is a friend of mine, brother.

You're looking... You're just looking for conflict, huh?

Correct. I'm... No, I'm looking for Ortho Bros. Not...

Well, he's looking for the energy. Come on, YP. So, just tell us real quick. You want me to leave?

No. I'm not looking for conflict. I'm...

If you want to tell us why you believe that Father John is not a schismatic, you can. And then you can, and then you can go because I am looking for Ortho Bros. Not...

Want. All right. You're...

Looking for a spectacle. I mean...

I'm... No, I'm looking for Ortho Bros. Ortho Bros.

All right. Well, well, okay. So, um, so, Father John, he, his spiritual father was a bishop, the Patriarch of Jerusalem. And I believe the Patriarch of Jerusalem was unfairly deposed. It was a political, he was accused of selling church property, and people, the Orthodox Christians who live in Jerusalem, they understand that these were false accusations. It was a political maneuver, and the history of the church is full of this. There have been bishops removed for political reasons, political forces throughout the history of the church. Most famously, St. Maximus the Confessor, St. John Chrysostom, both of these and many more saints, actual saints have died, and they have been deposed, and they died in exile. And I believe that Patriarch Eirenaios, who was Father John's spiritual father, who Father John followed into exile, falls into this category from all accounts. He was a saintly man from people who knew of him. I don't know, didn't know him personally. So I defend Father John, even though Father John has beef with Jay Dyer. I don't know. I'm personally trying to not attack people, not call people out by name. I'm trying. I've done that stuff before. And...

YP, if you're interested, I would be more than happy to go on your channel to talk about...

Real quick. Uh, YP, you just... So, you're saying there's some prominent names of saints that were in a similar situation?

Yes.

Father John, what are some of those names again?

Well, I just told you. Father John's bishop was removed for political reasons. Like St. You've heard of St. John, I assume?

Yes.

He died in exile. His spiritual children followed him into exile.

Wow.

People who are saying...

They don't call him a schismatic, do they?

They didn't. They don't call St. John a schismatic. They don't call St. John's spiritual children schismatics.

I think there's good cause to believe that that could be a similar situation. I God knows, you know, but...

I think people just go after Father John because he attacks Jay Dyer, and they don't like him, and they just, it's sort of a team thing, like they just pick a side and they stick with their team, you know. The... I'm...

So I think that's what's going on there. But yeah, uh, JP, I'll...

Send me a message. YP, I would love to talk to you about intercession.

Yeah, I'll have you. YP, I don't know if you're okay pulling up to my show and then we could chat a little bit more on your some of your knowledge. That would be great. Okay. JP, connect with you if that's okay.

Yeah. Send me a, send me a, my Twitter's probably blowing up right now. So...

Can you send me your Twitter name on the private chat? And then I'll be able to find you.

Sure. You got it.

And I would love to go on your channel and talk about intercession of the saints. That's a private chat in the bot. It should be on the right corner.

Yeah, I'm trying to see how I add to it.

Yeah. And YP, excellent video. Excellent live stream that you made with the father. So, yes. So, you're cool, brother. I would love to talk to you and respect.

All right. I'll send you a message on Twitter. I can't figure out how to write something here.

All right. Uh, how about you tell me your Twitter name real quick? Just say it.

Oh, here it is. I see it.

Okay. Gotcha.

Cool. He's dropping it.

All right, cool. Mhler. Yeah, give him a follow. I'll give him a follow as well. He did a video.

I mean, the bottom line is like, I'm not like, I mean, I'm an old, old school Orthodox. I was raised before the internet. I became Orthodox before the internet was around, and we just try to love people, you know? Like, I'm not like that new school attack, always in the attack mode, you know? So, like, I can try to, we can be friends. I don't have to, just because you're not Orthodox doesn't mean, like, I mean, I do think you're probably your faith is probably not all the way where it should be where I would hope it would be, but I mean, I can, we can talk. I can bring on, I have a channel, it's Young Penitent, so if anybody's watching.

Yeah, I just gave you a follow. All right, brother.

I just gave you a follow. So, YP, shoot me a DM and I'll love to come on your show and chatter. All right.

All right.

All right. God bless you, brother.

Bless you.

All right. Yeah. So, this is a cool dude. Uh, I have no issue with regular Orthodox. I have an issue with Ortho Bros. Now, if you're a regular Orthodox and you want to talk doctrine, I have no issue going on your channel and having...

What's up, Berto? Where the heck has Berto been, bro?

What's up, man?

I don't know, man. Around the street, bro.

He's just the full uncut version of Berto, bro. Word around the street is Berto might or might not be inquiring. I don't know. I'm just hearing things in the street, you know what I'm saying?

I don't know what he's falling for the script. Huh?

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Nobody's following no script. I don't know. I've never touched a Jay Dyer video, so ain't no script I'm following.

Listen.

Oh, so where you learning about it? Your local library. I just, you know what I'm saying? Like, like you said, inquiring. You know what I'm saying? But look, at the end of the day, I'm learning. I'm learning about history overall. So, it's really just a road I'm taking, man. But...

Well said. This is a hit piece on Jay Dyer. No, tomorrow is going to be the hit piece on Jay Dyer when we review that Baptist pastor that he did. So, this is not a hit piece. Today was supposed to be an interview, and it went very well, and I want to have that father back, and I'm glad I made the connection with YP. Tomorrow is going to be the hit piece. Tomorrow. This is nothing. This is just a couple of brothers having a good time, having a little interview. And notice Christian King, the brother that I was talking to about intercession of the saints, his connection never came back. Maybe he had a power outage. Mhler.

Yeah.

Maybe it's a power outage.

I mean, he seems like he's authentic, but I'm always curious when these people take these journeys.

And it's kind of funny because I talk to him pretty much on the daily, and I'll ask him just a couple of questions, and it's kind of always gets me that they never bother to ask the questions that I asked. That always gets me.

Now, uh, real quick, fellas, after this stream is done, I'm going to send everybody to Christian King's channel. However, I will not be on Christian King's channel. I'm going to be dealing with a matter on the second channel that I'm not going to mention. So, if you don't know what the second channel is, you don't know. That's it. But I will be transferring everybody to the Christian King, and I'll be on my second channel, which will not be shouted out. CK, I'd appreciate if you do your own thing over there. I got to handle some business somewhere else.

You just open up the...

I was going to say, I was going to say, "Yeah, didn't you have like another live after?"

Yeah. Yeah. But I don't. But that's when me and HHS, we're going to handle some business.

You...

Yeah. Why don't you send everybody over there?

No, no, no, no, no. It's... It's I don't need it to be a spectacle. So, I'll send everybody to you, and if you want to stream it, you can stream it. It's up to you, brother.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. So, start getting ready, brother, cuz in 30 minutes I'm done. I'm waiting for... I'm waiting. Now, look at this guy. I think this is a Wise Lion who I blocked. I blocked his accounts, and so now he's back again. So, let me block him. I have nothing to do with that man. So, let me block him again. All right.

So, EOS, where are you guys? That brother that was here, he said, "Oh, snap. My connection never showed up." None of these Ortho Bros want to show up. Now, we had a true Orthodox, and Berto, you're inquiring or you're inquiring or whatever. I want you to see this is the fruit of what you're inquiring of, Berto. This is the fruit of the ecumenism.

Now, you did have a solid dude that pulled up, and I'm going to go to his channel, kind-hearted man.

But by and large, this is the toxic.

Hey, but but but mind you, the difference is is that you guys are getting these online guys. I haven't done none of my research or anything like that or anything that I do is upon YouTube. Like, I don't know when the last time I...

You can show me where Mary is sinless, and we could pray to the saints directly, brother. You have another... You'll have me as...

Well, just I'm asking where is he getting his information?

No, and that's fine. And before we even start, first of all, cuz this is another thing JP put me on blast off of a discussion we just had.

No, no, no, no, no. Let's not be putting you on blast.

No. And that's understood, but I'm just saying I'm not saying it in any bad way. So don't take it as a like...

No, no. We're not putting you on blast, brother.

What I'm saying is is that we had this conversation prior.

And in confidence, you know what I'm saying? I told you. Hey, look, bro. You know what I'm saying?

Oh, don't do that. Don't say in confidence. No, brother. Come on. You're going to pull that card. Yo, you slid that in there. You're a rat, bro. You're a rat, bro.

If it was in confidence, you should have told me it was in confidence. Don't have confidence, brother.

First of all, first of all...

You came up here, brother. This is a public platform. What do you want me to think? I'm thinking you're going to defend the EOS. I said Berto's gonna come debate us.

Oh my. I didn't know.

Hey, P. Personally, I would be happy if he joined because more people to debate.

That's what I'm saying. Berto, you see what's going on, Berto? Berto, you see what's going on, my man? Like all these Ortho Bros talking the big game, but they not here.

And we only got... How many likes we got right now, man? Like, let's get these likes up, man.

Oh, no. Look, look, you got facts on me now.

Yeah, he's cool, fellas. He's cool. We got 120 likes. Let's get these likes up, fellas. Yeah, but real quick, Berto, so where you getting your information from? Don't hold out on the crowd, bro. Where you getting your information?

It's amazing. His power is out. The cell tower fell down, and his battery died. Oh, when you asked your question, JP, what a coincidence. Isn't that a coincidence? Everything. Yo, isn't that funny, CK? And now the other dude, the Jay Dyer minion, he's nowhere to be seen. The Bob guy.

Where are all these guys? Where are these guys? And fellas, I'm going to make Father John a regular. It's only going to get worse. Fellas, this is only the beginning. I'm a very, very petty man. Mhler will tell you, I'm very petty. There's no level to where I won't go down. I'm very petty. And if you thought this was a hit piece when we were just doing a soft interview, tomorrow will be the hit piece. Tomorrow will be the hit piece. I feel bad for what's going to happen tomorrow. I mean, and bro, you should... You should make him a regular.

Yeah. No, he's he's an excellent dude. Historically, excellent speaker, and no one was able to prove he's a schismatic. But then you had a guy that said, "Oh, I just randomly just clicked on the stream. Go to this manuscript here. This manuscript proves it." But why didn't you bring it up when he was here?

So, there's a lot of dishonesty going on. And it seems like everybody wants to protect this cult. Everybody wants to protect this cult where they're willing to throw one of their own under the bus to protect Jay Dyer.

And just to, if you don't mind me interrupting, just to answer Mhler. So personally, overall, it's been a personal thing overall, just going through history and more so with the church history. But something that JP forgot, left out, because he made it seem as if I'm in agreeance with this whole...

No, I didn't do that. I said...

No, no, you did.

I said you may or may not be inquiring.

Correct. But then you for... you left out this whole idea of me trying to defend the whole Mary being sinless and intercession of the saints, which was the very thing upon which I told JP, hey, bro, look, but I'm not sitting right with these things. Which is why...

You're not, but I'm saying... Why? Hold on. Let me finish. Which is why I would not be accepted by the Orthodox.

Indeed. But I thought you had a change of heart. You pulled up because we was calling for Ortho Bros. And then Berto joins randomly. I'm thinking you about to give us first of all. But...

I thought you was going to give me the stat. Look at that.

But you know very well I'm not equipped to even defend that, bro. So I'm not even going... Why would I even come?

You clicked in here, bro. That jawline. I seen yo. This man's about to do something right now.

And and just, and let's be clear, you can we got the receipts. Go up who cuz against this Jim Bob guy. Hey, bro, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't defending the dude. I'm telling...

That I didn't, that I can't, I can't say whether you was or not. I didn't see, I didn't even see...

I told him. Matter of fact, I told him multiple times, hey, there's a reminder. You know what I'm saying? You running your mouth, you know, come up.

Where is he? I mean, I thought these guys were... I thought these... And let's look at Jim Bob. Let's see who this guy is. Let's look up Jim Bob because we might have a good time reviewing some of his stuff, you know? Let's see. Let's look up this guy. CK, maybe we have a whole... Let's see.

Um, he's how Jay Dyer would refer to him as, uh, one of Jay Dyer's buddies.

Look at this guy, man. A complete parasite, bro. Straight.

He got like straight AI videos.

Bro, no, not AI. I mean, he's here, but...

Oh, he's on there. Yeah, but the thing is is that where is this guy at? Like he should have been here. Why is this coward running away?

Running for his life. He's a straight coward and an effeminate. He was chatting the whole livestream and never showed up. Never showed up. So to the ortho, to let me go, let me make it more clear. To the Jay Dyer fanbase, you guys are cockroaches. You're cowards. Cowards. You guys talk so tough. Yo, Mhler, Berto, CK, have you guys ever caught me and Jay Dyer's livestream talking nonsense the whole livestream? And you guys ever see me do that?

Yeah. I don't see the activity of pulling up to their lives in the chat, and you know, you might drop a comment here or there. Um, every once in a while. Um, maybe you might see it. Um, I think the first time that I was, I want to say it went back to me being banned by Dyer was one of his lives, and I commented on YouTube, and then maybe I've seen Jim Bob earlier today. You jump in the chat, but you don't see people going at them like, "What's up?" You know what I mean? Trying to raid the chat or anything like that. It just doesn't happen. But from this side over here, yeah, man, you got the faithful pull up and they start pulling. You know what I mean?

Jim Bob is a coward, man. He's a coward. Jim Bob, we're going to do a series on you next. It's just that I can't do a series on you next because I'm gonna change Berto. You know, I'm gonna change the name of this channel, Berto.

Yeah, bro. Honestly, you... I was already thinking about that, bro. You should...

Yeah, Berto, guess what the name is going to be?

What?

The name is going to be The Exposing Jay Dyer Network. That's going to be the name.

Don't do that, bro.

That's what's just going to be the... Bro.

Hey, yo, you going to emphasize...

Bro. That's the name of this channel, brothers. That's going to be the name, and it's going to be a picture.

And it's going to be a picture of Jay Dyer's profile with a red X on the profile picture. We'll get CK to...

Why don't you just make a separate page, bro?

No, brother. I want people...

You can pull Chris Lala, make a separate page.

No, brother. I want it to be here because this is what this channel's going to focus on.

I guess if that's what you want to make your whole channel about.

That's exactly what the whole channel's going to be about. So I want everybody...

I may have to do the same thing.

No, you have to name it the Jay Dyer Network Part Two.

You gotta go Part Two. See, so you go two, I'm number one.

Yeah. And he put, you know, you know what was very interesting on, you know, I jumped on Twitter one time and I saw all these responses and call, you know, people calling you out, JP.

And I was like, oh, maybe see them.

How many?

Maybe we're going to see them pull up onto the live stream, and it's like a ghost town. Mhm. How many, bro? My Twitter is... I have... So, I sent Mhler a screenshot. I don't know how many comments. None of these guys are here. And fellas, I'm taking it easy today because we had a good interview with the father and YP came up. So, I told YP, I'm willing to... I'm willing to um... Now, somebody said, "Dang, JP is petty. Funny, but petty." And you guys don't know the levels of pettiness that I'm going to reach. This is only the tip. Somebody that you consider a schismatic, and I'm going to make him a regular. I'm going to make that father a regular. I have his number. You guys hate the guy. I love the guy, and he will be a regular here. I want to recruit the guy to be a part of this family. I want him to go on Mhler's channel. And guess what? If you think that's bad, it's only going to get worse. It's only going to get worse, fellas. And tomorrow is going to be the true hit piece. To all the EO community, do not come to my livestream tomorrow. I'm trying to let you know, don't do it because we're going to review that Sola Scriptura debate that that Jay Dyer did against that Bill Hilly, that hillbilly pastor, right? This guy's out here debating tomato can hillbillies.

Bro.

CK, he's debating tomato can hillbillies. Wait, what do you like?

Bro. Bro, I was going to review that and I was like, if this guy is debating some random pastor...

Mhm.

Who don't even have a channel, cuz that's what he did two years ago.

I reviewed a video where he debated just some random pastor.

Um, and in the intro, like the guy didn't even have a channel. He didn't have any social media.

Well, it's...

So, I'm like, hold on. You out here debating just some random guys. He's a pastor. He's not even a debater. He's like, busy worried about the church.

And and you over here debating him. But then like you don't want to debate us. Oh, good. They're a small channel. Oh, they got 200 subscribers.

Hold on, Ber.

That tells you everything.

And Berto, you do know I was just trolling, you right, bro? I didn't mean no harm. You know that, right, bro?

What do you... What do you think this is, bro?

I just want you... I don't know. I didn't know if you switched up because we haven't talked in a long time. You feel me? So I don't want you to think I stopped trolling, right? Like, come on now. You know...

Bro.

Even though you were a worse troll than I am, like, you, we can't even mention some, you know, we... What was it? I don't know that. What was it?

Matt Bowler? We don't know that. We don't know that. We're not even going to talk about that, Veros, because we're not going to talk about that one.

So, you know, hey, bro, it's all love. Now, look, look, this brother here said, "You keep reviewing Orthodoxy. Do you know that I've stopped people from becoming orthodox and Catholic for that matter?" So has CK. You guys reviewing Orthodoxy because tens of thousands of people are converting to it annually in America. Your loot members can't deal with it. Yeah. You wouldn't be pulling up your to for someone for someone that uh is inquiring. I'll say this. This is my biggest issue. A lot of individuals who have converted or have become, it's premature now, fellas, it's premature. A lot of these individuals, I like, I've had conversations with guys who are full on. I'm talking about talking about they've gone through the whole process. They've been baptized and everything. I've asked them a lot about doctrines, they don't have answers for. So my question is, is how do you hold to something and you don't even know the answer to that to be able to? We just got, we just got. Oh man. Because bro, they're getting sold on the script, bro.

And that's what I'm saying. And that's my biggest issue with that. That is overall my biggest issue because at the end of the day, Mhola knows me, JP knows me. We have always, and these guys have shaped me and my thought process and making sure that I'm able to look at both sides of things and if it's not lining up, it's not lining up. I'm not going to conform to something that I. The only thing Berto, you have more knowledge than me in a lot of things. That's just objectively true, right? You do. You're a brilliant young man that likes to read a whole lot. You've taught me things. But the one thing that I've always tried to teach you is, Berto, how to think for yourself.

Now, notice that when that dude was here earlier and I was going to put him to the test, his his uh connection tower messed up. Yo, I somebody famous just requested up to join. Like he's a famous. Yeah, he's a famous apologist. He's a famous dude. He's a famous dude, but he requested down. Do you know who did it? You know who joined up? No. Sat. Sat. Sat. Hey, JP. JP. JP. I'm here. You know you can't play the Saints. You can't play the Saints. JP, do it. Soul sleep. JP. Sord sleep. Soul sleep answers everything. JP. He's an SDA. Ble. So he goes, JP, let me give you some advice. This is how you destroy intercession of the saints and believe in soul sleep. They're not in heaven. They're asleep. There you go. All intercession is done because they're asleep. That's a wrap.

Mhm. Wring the chat. Writ. What are you going to do then on your channel? You going to open it up? Are you going to do another review or you going to? Yeah. So, let me send everybody to CK's channel. Do you have it? Do you have it set up? Uh, just give me a few more minutes. Okay. So, in a few more minutes, everybody's going to go over to CK's channel. Then I got to go deal with a situation on my second channel. And so CK might stream that or he might not. But it's going to, I'm going to deal with a situation on my second channel. And uh, tomorrow is going to be the true hit piece on Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer likes to debate hillbilly uh tomato can Protestants who say that the Bible is Jesus. Literally Jesus.

Hey, somebody told me, cuz I haven't watched that. Somebody told me that he's from SFT's camp. Is that true? The pastor guy? Like he's one of his like either his pastor or his boy. That's what I heard. I, I, I hope not, man. I hope not. No. No. I'm pretty sure that's true, bro. Mhm. Who told me that, by the way? Somebody DM'd me that. Yeah. You know, layman. Layman told me that. You know what, bro? You know what? True. Maybe that is true, bro. But Mhola, I hope we don't get through the whole debate so we could do a a part five series. Maybe. Let's do a part five. I don't think you're going to be able to do that, bro. Are you serious? It's like a few hours. It's going to be like 30, 30 minutes per per episode, bro. Yeah. The pastor that that Jay Dyer debated. He did a debate a couple years back on one saved always saved. I've seen him debate before. He has done debates before just. But have you done him on SFT's channel that um standing? I don't, I don't remember. I don't remember if it was him or if it was on that channel if it was Marlin's channel. The uh. Yeah, that's why I think I've seen him. I think that's not his pastor, but he brings him up as like a pastor. That's that's uh what I'm what I was told and that's why I remember seeing his face, but I could be wrong. Yeah, he also debated, actually now that I remember, that that same pastor that Jedi just debated, he also debated a flat earth um uh he debated.

Wait a minute. A flat earther? Against flat earth. He, yeah, he debated a flat earther. Yes. Um, I, I don't, I don't remember. I don't remember. You know what I'm telling you guys? I'm Let me put myself on the record, everybody. I'm gonna put myself on the record. This dude JP will lose to a flatearther. If he goes against a flat earer, he will get mopped. That's a debate I want to see. I'll moderate. If a flat earer wants to go against JP, I'll put it on my channel and that'll be a debate right there. Any flat earers in the in the actual chat? Cuz if you, you're ready. I'm right here. Wait, Joe. Noer. I'm right here. JP. Oh, wow. Dude, this would be a good debate. Yo, JP, can you show me a video? Bro, he's no slouch. JP, can you show me a video? Okay. Oh, no, dude. Don't. Can you show me a video of a rocket ship leaving Earth with the whole Earth in the back? Listen to me. With the entire Earth in the background. Show me a video. Put send it to me. Send it to me. Can you show my argument? Send it to me. Can you show, brother? I've debated the master of this argument for many years, my brother. So you're bringing this argument like I just heard it, brother. So you gave up then. So so you are a flat earther now then saying the moon was made out of plasma. Remember we were straw maning each other like crazy. Bro, you the most epic conversation ever. In the history. Yes. That is hilarious.

I'm just going to give a summation. I'm not going to say all the details. This dude for this dude JP and his his friends and his connections is sitting with like a medical doctor, one of his friends and he puts him on the phone and he tries to get gangster and call me out about something that I said. Hey, you know, I don't know about the evidence. I don't know what I don't know what space is and all this and he put this doctor on and was just like, look, talk to my friend doctor. This dude right here believes the moon is made out of. Like I tried to make Mohler but like a fanatic. So I was like, let me make him like a conspiracy theorist. It's like a wacko. This guy believes the moon is flat. Blah, blah, blah. Like I'm trolling, right? Obviously Mohler don't believe that. Yeah, bro. I'm literally on the phone going like this like Mohler goes, "JP, JP, uh, didn't you believe that we didn't land on the moon?" And I said, and I ignored him. I said, "Yo, this guy," he said, "JP, you don't believe we went to the moon?" That is hilarious. Looking at me. The doctor starts looking at him sideways like, "Wait a minute, bro. You don't believe we went to the moon to hear one of these conspiracy serious too and then all of a sudden JB it and then we just start going at it. And we were we were all in attendance for that too. So. Yeah, that that was funny. Was listening to that one. That was a moon landing, bro. Oh my gosh, cuz I don't I don't think that we um, I some of them detail going to the moon, man, like yeah. They're really sketchy details. I'm with you and I'm with you. I wouldn't call myself a flatearther, but I'm like definitely skeptical of everything. Moon landing, bro. The moon landing stuff, man. It is a little suspicious. You know what I'm saying? It is a little suspicious.

What you guys think about that last flight? We come back with a bunch of video and pictures, huh? Kind of sketchy. Kind of sketchy. They look a little sketchy. Oh, wait a minute. That is that Johnson, bro? Oh, listen to my Toronto brother. Fire up the land. That's all I have to say. Fire up the land. You ready now? CK. Yeah, CK was just about to start. All right, so everybody, I'm about to uh I have to deal with a situation in 10 minutes. So, we'll all transfer over to CK's channel. Uh CK, if I'm going to I'm going to do it right now. I'm going to move everybody your way. Let me do that now. The Christian King. The Christian King. Where we at? There we go. You're live. All right. So, I'm gonna end here, but just share your screen here so that we could chill for 10 minutes and then we'll all go our separate ways. All right. CK. Oh, okay. Okay. So, I'm going to end the.