Why So Many Marriages Are Now Sexless | @AskaBrothaPodcast

Our next guest is based in the UK. Um, she is a relationship uh therapist that specializes in sexless marriages and uh female sexual desire and long-term relationships. On YouTube alone, she is a master for 43,000 subscribers. And thousands have tuned in to hear her thoughts on relationship challenges and the ways to get the spark back. Please help me welcome to Ask a Brother podcast for the very first time. This is Laura. What's going on, ma'am? How are you?

Very well. Thank you, Jeff.

All right. Sorry to make sure I get my three horns out the way. Um, what's going on from the UK?

The UK is great. The UK the UK is busy. We've got a lot going on in the UK. Uh, but for for what for what I'm interested in, not a lot of sex by the by the looks of it, Jeff. So that's why I'm here in this crazy space alongside you is that is that we're having a lot less sex than we've ever had before which has piqued my interest. How about you?

Well, it's not my issue personally but professionally it has popped up with some of the clients and people that I work with. Um so before we jump into sexless marriages and what why this is happening you know at the rate that it is um for my audience and people who are watching you or coming across you for the first time why don't we start with your educational background and what even made you get into content creation.

Ah good question. So I started uh I have a diploma in counseling. Um I was always from a very young age deeply interested in how people uh function. what makes them dysfunctional. I've always be been very interested in psychology. Uh I started uh my career in the field of addiction. So I worked frontline services for for 15 years. I started uh harm reduction services and moved into the um rehabilitation space. So abstinence-based uh treatment centers and recognized early doors that that uh those formative relationships really mattered. Um so I trained to become a therapist whilst working in that sphere and became quite instantly very interested in what was driving divorce and separation. Um because that has such a massive impact on child development and child welfare. Um so that's how I veered towards towards that topic. Um but but I became interested in whether sex essentially was was or or lack thereof was a major part of what's causing a lot of trouble for people along the way just working out not just professionally Jeff but personally I would when I would go to the gym it was the sort of offhand derogatory comments from particular I have to say women about men and about male desire and I heard it everywhere in the school cues, you know, in the shops, wherever I went. Then, of course, it's all over the the sitcoms and the the the the media is sort of dripping with this negativity regarding um what I would what it seemed worse going for me. it looked like it was worse from, you know, in terms of the the negative message about men and um I wondered what what what that where that was coming from, why that was happening and what impact that would be having on marriages. Um yes, and then seeing it in the counseling room as well. So it was it was that it was that that I started to piece this sort of sad puzzle together um and then started looking at the stats which were uh concerning to say the least.

M a I appreciate that because I know that a lot of women have basically said very similar experiences to yours that over the last let's say 10 to 15 years they've noticed an uptick in the negative view of men and boys and men and especially husbands I don't know why we husbands hate it now and it's been so normalized where there isn't a place in our cultures where you kind of workplace uh social media Obviously, um even live television shows and talk shows, it's pretty normal, um to kind of hear very disparaging things about men. Um and then what kind of pushed you to be like, I need to speak on this on social media or in terms of content?

Well, I like talking with people, Jeff, and I've I've always been really drawn to serious conversations. I think the day that that human beings stop having serious conversations, sane conversations about serious things, then then you know we're in trouble as a species. Um, so because really it was a push back. So it was the way that because it's not just what's said about men, it's the way that men are portrayed in the movies. I had a son as well. So that that um that impacted me profoundly. his natural grace, his uh fierce loyalty, his protective uh he's just such a beautiful spirit. So for me, it was like a an I think maybe just a natural protective move and push back um against all of this negativity. Fundamentally, I think that if men and women lose faith in one another, if we if we if we are inc continually encouraged to mistrust and doubt the intentions coming from the opposite sex, I think as a species, we're in trouble. So, for me, it was it was it felt like I can't not do it. Um, yes, compelled.

I appreciate that. And I'm also noticed a trend with with uh boy moms that they seem to have a little extra tick of humanity than than those who who aren't. U which is a very interesting thing that I've noted as well. Um real quick, I I noticed somebody already commented. If you're currently watching, um all that I ask is that you like whatever whether you're watching from my side or on Laura's side, feel free to make sure that you like the video. Make sure you share it with at least two, three, four, or even five people. It's going to get interesting, people. We definitely going to talk about sexless marriages and some other interesting things that I've noted. But I do see and if you're currently watching, make sure you put a one in the chat to just let me know that you're in the building cuz I I hate looking at numbers. I love looking at names. Um so we have one person uh T101 Cyber. He writes uh one of Laura's videos really put my thoughts into words and they're very grateful to find Oh, I'm very grateful to find her channel. Yeah, appreciate you T1 and everybody else that's currently watching for sure. Um, so let's jump into the weeds of it. So some of your content gets to the taboo, right? And often avoid uh avoided topics relating to how men and women tend to show up in relationships. Uh you clearly jumped straight into that. Has that impacted your actual day-to-day relationships? Like the ones in your regular everyday life, has it has it changed anything in terms of how people think of you or even respond to you?

Uh, not not yet. Although I was up for my morning walk this morning and and I definitely got a colder response from a fe a sort of female acquaintance than but then you you know sometimes I think well obviously she might just be having a bad day but sometimes I do worry Jeff that that that um that it will you know everybody's got an opinion and pe people that know have known me for a long time I do get messages saying well you know have you thought about have you thought about um you know what it's like when women experience this stuff and and you know the answer is yes of course I've thought of it from both sides but what I can see clearly is that there is a lot of support out there for for women um and perhaps not quite so much for men and um you know when when the the you know the the greatest cause of death um to for under 50s is you know suicide for men sorry is is suicide. So greatest death for men under 50. Greatest cause of death, sorry, for men under 50 is suicide. You know, you you some compassion and is necessary some empathy and some some profound and genuine curiosity as to why that is. So again, I guess it's it probably has. I'm sure everybody has an opinion. Um, but but the days of me needing everybody to agree or even like me fortunately are are are uh they're somewhat gone. And and I do remember hearing somebody public say, you know, if you're going to if you're going to to to concern yourself with what is true, you might need to give up on on everybody being happy with you all the time. And um so so that that's that's where I stand there. I'm not sure if I've answered the question. I'm not sure if I did I understand the question correctly.

Yes. And then related to that, one of these quoteunquote taboo topics is sexless marriages. So, why is it so common and reasons that you think men might be contributing towards relationships becoming sexless as well as maybe things that the ladies may be doing?

So, so the the I'm just going to read a bit here because I'm not very good with stats. So, so, so the way I would frame this is just to say that it's not normal age related decline what we're seeing. So, couples today have far less sex than the same age group a generation ago. So frequent sex in uh the 35 to 44 age group more than halfed by by the 2010s. So from the '9s to the 2010s, it more than halfed. And partnered sex has fallen 15 to 28% per decade since the early 2000s across the UK, the US, Australia, and Nordic countries. and it incorporates the 1 in5 sexless figure. So it's important that people know this, the one in five sexless figure. Um, so and sexlessness is is the clinical term is used when it's 10 or less times per year. So that's one in five couples are having sex 10 or less times per year. Um, but that that's only the extreme cases. So what it isn't counting is the people who have having sex once a month. So they're not even appearing in the statistics. So the so the the real picture is far worse. And and and that's how it seems to me. I don't think the stats are actually covering covering um the the the finer details. Um, and um I don't know if you would it would be helpful for me to talk about the drivers. So what we think is driving driving th this this issue. So isolated modern life is a major part of it. We're more isolated than we've ever been before. We used to live in in community living was was normal. This you know uh isolated sort of family homes. Everybody sort of somewhat segregated. That's a major part of it. people go out a less now than they ever were. Um, so so both partners working full-time, that's a major contributing factor. Phones and uh screen usage. Ondemand pornography is a major player as a substitute or as an avoidant strategy. So rather than dealing with the problem, people are turning to other other sources of dis of distraction. You know, they're they're lost to to perhaps addictive a bit addictive processes. Um, falling testosterone levels, if you've not looked into that, I mean, it's not a cheerful it's not cheerful information. It's pretty it's pretty harrowing and and that's across the sexes. Testosterone is plummeting. Soaring anti-depressant usage which kills libido. A lot of people don't know that. Doctors are not, in my humble opinion, properly explaining what the side effects of these medications are. They're promoted. They are very infrequently, sadly not being talked about in terms of what they do. They cause extreme things such as genital numbing. So, not only are you not wanting sex, you're going to struggle to orgasm and your genitals don't feel as good as they used to. That to me is concerning, but again, I don't think people understand these things. Runaway individualism and the gender war on both sides. I think that's like to to sort of summarize, Jeff. Hopefully, that's helpful.

Absolutely helpful. I, you know, looked into many and heard a lot a lot, especially the declining testosterone, what's in our drinking water, a whole host of different fascinating things from multiple angles. Um, but you mentioned a couple things that I hadn't thought too too deep. Like I I thought about cell phones and I thought about, you know, the corn uh websites that people are using, but um I could even see it from a scenario of the the actual one that you mentioned that I was very interested in me was the anti-depressants and how that not that really isn't being marketed or at least share in the way in which it should be more accurate so people know more about what potentially could be happening to them while they're taking And and I'm thinking about postpartum. I'm thinking about um uh when when women start getting up there in age and just their bodily changes and if they're not feeling great and then they're taking something that's supposed to help them feel better, but simultaneously it's impacting their sexual drive.

Yeah, massively. So it makes it it's the you're taking something that's supposed to make you feel better, but it's causing issues in another area. Well, if I can just say on that, Jeff, because this feels really important. It makes you feel less. So, so it it yes, it will it will reduce your feeling of sadness. Um, but it also will reduce joy. It reduc they often reduce pleasure. You'll find that you you no longer enjoy music. If you enjoyed music, your children's smiles won't touch you the same way. Now I I this frightens me this topic to be to be honest. Um, and I I'm not I would urge people to do their own research but we know that anti-depressants cause what we call emotional stunting. So it's that you the argument is or or something to question to ask the question. I think this is a sensible and sane question. I'm not here to cause conspiracy. It's not that. It's a sensible question. Do they make you feel better or do they just make you feel a lot less generally? It's a good question.

Yeah. No, I I I think this is a good And then so how do you help how have you helped couples when they've come to you expressing, you know, that this is going on in their relationship?

Well, so we we just have again we I'm I'm a fan of of sensible conversations and I trust people Jeff and pe people once they have the right information I I do say I'm very clear listen I am not the I'm not here to make decisions for you. I'm here to have sane and sensible conversations and then you can do your own research. I urge people do your own research. Track track the experience yourself. You have to tune in to what has happened to you. And I'm an advocate of this generally. We have to work out what's good for us and what is not. Generally, I would argue that your capacity in terms of working out what's good for you and what's not is a major factor in whether you succeed in life or not. So take the thing and see what it makes you feel. Eat the product and see how you feel. Spend time with the person and then assess what happens to you. That's how you we have these exquis exquisite bodies and brains geared to to to be to to make sense of our environments. And again, I I'm concerned that people perhaps are not not being encouraged to that they're capable of this, of find working these things out for themselves.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I love your approach of increasing people's awareness and mindfulness when it comes to more of an experiential experience. I think sometimes a lot, especially therapy, talk therapy, we we kind of get in the weeds when it comes to just focusing on changing thoughts. And sometimes it's like it actually is easier to just say, you know what, just put yourself in this situation. See what happens. Try this. And then when they do, now it's a whole new set of of thoughts, emotions, and perspectives that comes from the actual changed experience versus just trying to transform my thinking in a situation. So I I love your hearing more and more of your approach to it. Now, I got a good question, and this may be a question a lot of the ladies who have ever come across this stuff has wanted me or wanted to know. Uh, why do you hate women?

It's so funny. I saw that you'd written that question. I thought that's it's nice. It's nice opportunity for me to speak to speak on the subject. Makes me feel sad to be honest. Yeah. I've worked with people for 30 years. Um, you know, and really vulnerable people. Um, you know, and obviously both men and women. And I am a woman. Um, and I I I I would urge, you know, I look at the reviews that I've had over the years, and, you know, I can I can gauge how people feel about their experience of my care. Um, and and it is clear to me that that that they that they value my not not just how I work, Jeff, but who I am as a person. I am a very, you know, it sounds sort of, it sort of doesn't feel very humble to say it, but I know I know who I am and I know what my intentions are. I I simply, it just feels sad. It feels it feels sad to that that's the way it comes across.

But if I look at it uh if I look at it I can't think of the word that I'm looking for without you know with with you know stand back and and look at it from from something of a distance. Um, I can I can appreciate that. Um, there's something about speaking about men's needs. For for some reason, if you speak about men's needs, then you're immediately somehow discounting women's needs. And I think that must be partly to do with the divisive culture that we or era that we currently live in. So, it's like if you you can't talk about men's needs and not be disregarding women's needs. and um that that feels you know a sort of sort of strange way of looking at things but I think that that the the fundamental uh there's something fundamentally and this is this is definitely not going to win me any friends um but there is it's there is something about asking women to be accountable and to and you know it seems to be we seem to be very culturally comfortable with asking men to take responsibility and to check their behavior and to step up. But if you if you ask if you do the same when it comes to women, then for some reason that is not currently politically correct. It seems to be if you ask women, what are you offering? What kind I remember I'll never forget it. I had a young client and I remember saying to her, you spend a lot of time talking about what you know, how to find a good man. Have you have you ever considered what kind of a woman you are? have you ever considered what you might be offering? Um, and she just looked at me she she just looked at me a a gasp like I had just uttered something in a foreign language. Um, so we're not for some reason we're not currently that interested in talking about how women fail, how women can be crazy. Um, and this is the truth that I've worked with people for a long time, both men and women, and and I can say with some authority that that both men and women are capable of of harmful behavior. We're both capable of dysfunctional behavior. We can, you know, we we're we can be, you know, equally toxic, but again, we're not, for some reason, we're not talking about that. And that I find that infuriating. um partly because because it's interesting to talk about how men and women can be mad and clearly we are cuz look at this the state of the world. So I think it's that it's not popular. It's there's this sort of women women are wonderful women can do no wrong and that's just not my experience. And I think just saying that just even hinting that that Yeah. Sorry, my bad. That was on me. Um, so basically they they saying you're a misogynist when uh when it's all said and done or you have some type of internalized uh misogyny. That it's in you kind of said it at the beginning. There's something about when you ask women what is it that men you all are saying you want? What is it that they're looking for? It's like a deer in headlights. They're like, "Wait, he has standards, too." And and and that's that that listen, that makes sense to me when if if they've been socialized like that, what you're doing it they interpret it as hate when it's more just like you're literally talking to them the way you talk to and about men. Um but they but basically they're trained for you not to be allowed to do that. So yeah, it's very strange. It's very strange, but it's not it's it's I've been in this game so long that it's just it's just ridiculous to me to think that you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't be questioning the individual, you know, equally. For me, I've been working with people a long time and I've been I've been, you know, asked to consider because that's what analysis is. You know, the old term for therapy was analysis. It wasn't this, you know, oh, just nodding along this sort of passive passive safe space, which I find the phrase irritating. It that the purpose of therapy was work. It was self it was deep self-reflection. It was encouraging people to really consider themselves um, you know, deeply. So, so to to me this this sort of unbalanced men are toxic, men are harmful uh way of viewing viewing the species is just bonkers. And um I I'm not much of a fan of going along with things that don't make sense. Yeah, I've even I even think that mentality has absolutely taken over therapy spaces, uh, psychology and the end result being even in couples therapy, women are showing up saying, "Well, when you fix him, then everything will be good to go. We'll be back to normal." And I'm like, it takes me three, four, six sessions in to get her to acknowledge anything that she needs to do different. It's fascinating. And and it's like it makes sense then why the the divorce rates, the marital rates, and the just the dating pool is what it is because so many people are going to therapy and are being reaffirmed the wrong way of thinking um when it comes to relationships. So I I really appreciate that. And even with that said, um real quick, I want to make sure I read a couple comments to make sure I don't lose sight. Uh Cross Adam also from Michigan, your channel has started to change my marriage. I appreciate it so much. Thankfully, I have a wife that will listen to ideas. So, yeah. So, see you you've been you you even from Michigan, you got love. Uh it looks like out here. So, we he absolutely shout out uh Adam for kind of um for just letting us know that you're in the building. Uh secondhand truth, they know he has standards. Unfortunately, they don't care. Um, yeah. I think that there's there are some ladies who who legitimately uh know, but there's also ones that I think truly don't know. I think they really do believe that men are not allowed to have st happy wife, happy life is actually what they really believe. Um, even if it doesn't work out, that they actually truly believe that. But you're right, uh, secondhand truth. There's definitely some people who for sure know and just simply don't care. And then last but not least, Steve, uh, this lady speaks a lot of sense. So appreciate everybody that's commented so far. If you're currently still watching, please make sure that you like, share to two, three, four, or even five people. And make sure if you have a particular question or comment that you do not want me to miss while we are still live, feel free to hit that super chat button.

Jeff, before we move on because you asked me if we go back a question, are you happy to do that? Because you asked me what men contribute to sexless marriages, what women contribute. Um, and I didn't answer that. Does do do you want me to go over that or would you prefer to just move on?

Let's continue.

It's niggling. It's niggling at me that I didn't answer that because it's important to note that that it's it's it's never one-sided. I really want the audience to understand that. I view every case on a case-byase basis. I do not appreciate this. Women always, men never, you know, this these blanket statements, this sort of um what do they call it? Absolute language. Um I don't think it's useful. It doesn't help anybody. So casebyase basis. Um so so I I view the sex problem as a relational problem. It's generally speaking not caused, you know, 100% by one person. It's an interplay between the two. So what men commonly contribute um would be that they withdraw emotionally and they go quiet rather than continue to address the issue. apathy uh and withdrawal is a major factor and I often find myself had in head in hand you know because some sometimes we're talking 20 30 years where where very little has been said and men will tolerate these these like I don't know waste land marriages sexual you know uh I can't think of the the word but but but uh a a a barren land Um, another thing that they they do is that they read a woman's lower desire um as a trick that it's that it's that it's some kind of um you know uh control that she's doing it on purpose. They read uh dark ulterior motives into it where usually when you speak to the the women involved it's it's way more complex than that. Sometimes it goes back to to complex childhood relationships. Her relationship with her father might have been dreadful, for example, and she never worked through that. Maybe the kids completely overwhelmed her. She's not she hasn't learned to take care of herself very well. She just gets lost to life. Um, and that that's I know that's quite vague, but but the but the general gist is that essentially men men read into it as something malicious where it's it's normally not malice. It's it's usually overwhelm or a lack of self-awareness. Um, the other thing to say is that they often demand monogamy whilst withholding affection, attention, and presence, which drives women further and further away. She she really doesn't flourish when and I get it. I understand why men withdraw because they do it to protect themselves. But ultimately lack of presence and emotional shut shut out causes causes the opposite effect of what men will want.

In terms of what women contribute. Um, a very real and very normal hormonal shift. The children tend to completely obliterate her. She becomes fully mom and all traces of anything that she was before children, before that life she lets slip away and that is often dismissed and completely ignored. It's a difficult conversation. She doesn't feel good about herself. She doesn't feel sexy anymore and she won't talk about it. She goes further and further into mother and and and um no conversation is is allowed. And then what I would add to that is then that c this cultural uh drip feed of consent language, my body, my rules, um and rhetoric around not feeling connected and men not stepping up. she leans on all of that as another reason rather than going to the deeper issues which might be that she's completely lost her you know the the the devivve that perhaps she had when she was younger. The other thing I'd add to that is that she tends to dismiss sex as a trivial thing. Um, because she a lot of women and I shall say including myself do not understand the importance of sex for for men. So I just wanted to go over those things, Jeff, because they do feel really important.

Ah, this was this was I'm glad that you circle back and you spoke on so many things that I've also learned and read and kind of come across. um that cultural part that you mentioned of an attitude where both sexes believe that they don't have to do certain things in this space in order to access sex is very fascinating to me where for instance you mentioned how on on the female side my body my choice my body my say obviously consent um and when she doesn't feel good she doesn't feel confident she feels even insecure to some degree she has a whole social cultural framework that says you don't have to change anything and he should just be satisfied indefinitely. And on his end, a lot of guys that complain about sexless relationship and sexless marriages especially, they they they often, like you said, frame it through the lens of um because I'm not getting what I want, I'm not going to give her what she wants. And it's like but you know that's how we're here now. So it's very strange to see two parties that's know like what you're doing isn't working. You're losing out but you don't want to do anything different and you want to put all the onus on the other party. Um so I I'm happy that there's more and more couples that's reaching out to people like you and it's like hey y'all both got a part to play and and and if each person doesn't focus on what they can change um all we're going to do is do blame shifting throughout our experience together. So I appreciate that you're doing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and then Graham, he writes, "Uh, Laura is wonderful. Her content is for every adult. Relationships matter. Posted from London." Hey, I might need to have you on more. All this international people uh popping up over this side of the internet. Uh, so thank you everybody that's currently watching. If you're watching from my end or from Laura's end, please make sure that y'all are subscribed to our channels. Make sure that you follow both pages and most importantly that y'all share this current video with at least one, two, three, four, or even five people. um feminism. Uh you've been a bold voice, you know, as a woman in the UK that's very progressive, very modernized. Um, and when it comes to critiquing feminism, I still think that we're in new territory because like you said, there's just so few people who feel confident enough to be able to do this and how the role of feminism has probably impacted, you know, relationship, marriages, men, society overall. In any of those areas, how have you observed how feminism has impacted positively or negatively marriages, men or just the overall culture and society even over there?

Well, I think that it has seown seeds again of mistrust and doubt. you know the the general theme and I must say Jeff I am not an expert on feminism. There are fantastic speakers on the topic that you would be far better to listen to if you want to know the the history of feminism. Janet Janice Fango is a is a great voice um that that yeah she she is a she is a tremendous voice on on that subject. She has studied she's studied the history of feminism to a to a degree that is is quite remarkable. I have not done that and um so I'm I want to be very clear I'm not an expert here. What I would say looks relatively clear is that it has seown a seed of doubt. This there is it seems to have convinced women that men ultimately when I boil it down men are wanting to hold women back at best there is an intention to hold women back. There is talk of homemaking, child rearing, marriage as a sort of form of slavery that we have to free women from the home and allow her to take her place, her rightful place alongside men in the workplace. So that that was a major part of it. Get women out of the home into the workplace. free women from the subjugation and that yes. So at best that men want to hold women back from these great positions that they want the power for themselves and and that's the best version. The worst is that that the history of mankind is a history of male tyranny over women. Now all again I'm no expert. I cannot comment on every woman's experience. What I can comment on is my own. Now, my experience of being I was born in 1979 in Yorkshire in the UK. So, it's a northern northern place within the UK. I have I have rarely experienced anything other than courtesy from men. I I that that's my deep and long-term lived experience that I my the sentiment from men towards me has always been positive. I've had whatever job I have wanted. I have educated myself. I have I I you know I've been able to essentially take up whatever roles I wanted to take up in in the world. So what the the effect that I think that it it has ultimately had is to drip feed uh this this pericious idea that men don't want women to to thrive which is the absolute opposite of what I see. I see it in as a therapist and I and I see it as a as a human being walking the world that that that men want the best for women. I would say that it's absolutely true that men would put women before their own well-being. Consistently that's true. But feminism is telling you otherwise. And so it's taken women out of the home and away from children. So children are now being placed in child care setting as as young as six six months old. So we're it's it's c are overwhelmed, overburdened, spread very very thinly. We don't have time. We don't have as much time for our children. We don't have as much time for our marriages. And you know, we're we're I mean, I it looks to me it looks to me like it has had a a negative impact not just on the relationship between men and women, but also on child child development, child welfare. it it's it's as far as I can see, it's not been good. But the the yes, the main thing is that men and women no longer see each other as allies. We are we are no longer believe in our deep compatibility. The fact that we complement each other. The fact that we enhance one another. My experience of having a husband and a son is that I've developed in ways that I would not have done if I hadn't lived in close proximity to a man. And vice versa. My my husband has been profoundly impacted by having me by his side it for a huge proportion of his life. Jeff, so that's the message that I push that's the thing that I push back against. I want to remind people that men and women like so many of the other species you look at it in any nature programs you'll see that that the male and the female of the species work together. you know that that's it's that complimentary collaborative relationship between the sexes that is that is literally our nature.

Now I appreciate so much of what you had to say. So related to that I actually wanted to delve into e even as you say all of those things and I can see it. I've seen it in the field. I've seen it on social media. I've definitely seen it in in in the media at large when it comes to entertainment. Many feminists are claiming that there really isn't there is no war on men or they're really just reporting um the dangers of what men are capable of. From your vantage point, like is this an actual war on men or is it really or is this a combo of a lot of this being about the manosphere red pill space a lot this is just in a lot of guy like are we in a misandry crisis or is this being overblown in your opinion?

I I think it is uh an absolute uh I think that there is a very real corrosive uh contempt for men. I think pretending otherwise is part of the problem. I do feel that I hear it. My little boy refuses to do certain homeworks, Jeff, because it's it's so um derogatory um in in terms of what the message is about about men. Um, we are very quick to tell our little boys that they are a potential menace to society, that they are potentially uh, you know, predatory, dangerous. Um, so so I I think arguing I think that's probably um, you know, just just just a a push back against against, you know, because people talk now. I think one of the amazing one of the most amazing aspects of our time is that there is there is there is we can do what you and I are doing right now. So you you don't get away with um with with pretending that things have not been said when they have um because pe people are paying attention, people are able to do their own research and you know people are getting together to discuss what's going on. So, I think that's just a, you know, it's it's a push back. So, I I I I I refute that entirely. I think you just switch on the TV, look at how they portray the men. Look at the advert, Jeff. Look at every cleaning product is, you know, there's a mop being held by a man. It's, you know, the women aren't doing the cleaning anymore. There that, you know, it's the men dropping things in the adverts. It is literally everywhere. if you've got the eyes to see it.

Yeah, I I appreciate that. And it took me a long time to realize that I had to stop waiting for the people around me to acknowledge what I saw with my own two eyes. I said, "No, I see what I see." And a lot of y'all are either brainwashed or you're scared to kind of say that this is even real. This is happening. And I think this that was part of the reason why I finally decided to get into content creation last year was because I had to normalize as a man in this space, especially someone that looks like me. Like people talk about gyocentrism and and and feminism and the matriarchy and everything. I don't know of any other large scale um racial or ethnic groups that the things we're talking about is more present in the black community in America than probably most other places in the world. And I've seen the consequences and everybody is scared of mama. Everybody is scared of women and almost very few black men would even say what you just said. Um, so it, you know, so it it's true that I think it's bad. I think it actually is a crisis and you're like to condition millions of women from around the world that they should pick a bear over a man is insane. Like this this and they're serious when they say this stuff. And I'm like, well, the propaganda has been so it's been non-stop from college on down. Like you said, the shows, the movies, the commercials, everything is tell we had the articles that were trending at one point um recently from an article that said, "Is having a boyfriend embarrassing?" Oh, right. So, it's horrible. Yeah. My husband said there was some cup recently, a cup. There's some viral thing where girls are I can't remember what the cup said, but again, if you had the reverse, if you had that cup and it was men holding it and the sentiment was reversed. Yeah, totally. But it's become so normal. You can say what you want about men. And I often listen to people and I and I watch cuz I'm observant. And it it shocks me that people are not ashamed of themselves. You know, the the things that they're happy to utter about men is is it it's disgraceful. We've come I've heard it said I think it was Douglas Murray says you know that feminism it was it was you know may maybe it was necessary to to you know I love that women can we do we can we can work we can do what we want if you know if if if we want to go do you know do you can become an engineer do what you want you you really can the world is is as open to women if not more so now we know that but again let's not get lost in the details tales. Um, yes. Where was I going with that? But yes, it's it's so so it's become so normal to to to say say dreadful things um about men. And um I I do fear if we don't cause corre yes that pendulum sorry it swung and it got to a good place and it kept swinging and it swung too far and we need to we need to push it back if predominantly for our for young people. You know I think I think what a dreadful society I if we are content to tell our little boys that they're dangerous and our little girls that they should be afraid of boys. You know, my little boy, I ask him all the time, "Have you got a girlfriend yet, Charlie?" He's like, "No, I don't like the girls." It's like, "That's it. That's that's it. That's it. I didn't do that to him, Jeff. We didn't do that. He He's He's in a a beautifully loving home. That's not come from him. That's it's from us. Sorry. That's that's the culture." Um, so what a dreadful thing to do to young people to convince them that they can't trust and enjoy enjoy the the the opposite sex. What a frightful what a frightful thing we ought to be ashamed of ourselves that they are not. Cuz when I was young, Jeff, I don't know how old you are, but when I was young, there was still absolute excitement fizzling from one sex to the other. That was the era of power ballads. men and women were obsessed still with one another. It was cool to love. It was cool to fancy. It was, you know, it was still just so fun. Um, so the fact that that's been taken from our youth feels I feel ashamed. I feel ashamed of it.

Yeah. I I've been looking at trends. um you know the different studies and stuff has been coming out and they did say in the in the Statesmen um the statesmen um they did a study and they were showing that young girls now are more quote unquote radicalized. They have much more negative feelings towards men than in the reverse. Are the last 10 20 years all we've heard was all these boys and men that just hate women and all along this is what's actually been the like you said happening as an undercurrent. Um as well let me see a couple chats real quick. Uh user TN followed Laura from the start. She's amazing and I've not found anyone who speaks more sense. I found Laura's videos videos uh hugely valuable. Thank you user. And then also secondhand truth. Jeeoff, you are right about people being scared about conversations um with conversation when conversations with friends just edge this topic. I see the men tense up.

Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Um, but to be fair, part of it is the the it's the social consequence that can come from people interpreting what you say as a form of hate. as if I speak on a topic in a way that women don't like, does that mean that I'm misogynist? You may not believe you are, but other people will. Um, and and again, this isn't just per personal, it's also professional where where people have a really really tough I was surrounded by nothing but women working in mental health for the last 12 years. that I have to even in the last job where I had very very great relationships and had like really close bonds when certain topics and stuff would come up, they just they were it was they were so desensitized to the things that they would say about men and I would listen and I would hear something they would say about men and then I would use the exact example and counter it and put women into it and then seeing their reaction I was like oh they don't so good They see a level of humanity in women that they don't see in men. That's what I had to walk away with. And I didn't argue back and forth, but it was one of those things where I finally started to realize like, oh yeah, they really have a low threshold when it comes to respect for men. Like they love their own sons and their own husbands, but they don't extend that respect outside of their homes or outside of their families. And I was like, and these are professional psychologists, therapists. And I'm like, yes, worrying. And these are therapists. sit there. So, I was like, it you're you're totally right. Um, just a few more questions because

I know I don't want to hold you too long. Um, >> I'm enjoying it, Jeeoff. Please don't worry. >> Same here. Same here. So, a question. And listen, a lot of people have been talking about, especially ladies, high value man, a highly productive man, a man that can help me allow me to live certain lifestyles. What would you recommend to those ladies that are very clear and very sure that they don't want just any old guy? They want a man that has a little, you know, certain level of clout, status, something. What is it that those ladies probably need to know or hear?

>> Well, again, this probably won't be that popular, but hey ho, in for a penny, in for a pound. So, the first thing I would say is to be genuinely sexual with him. to align yourself with with that as part of the relationship. If he if he is is uh I would say like most healthy men are um healthy men, one of the things they crave more probably than anything else in the world is to have a close physical, sexual, intimate bond with a woman. That is top of their list of priorities. That's they living the dream.

>> Cuz we going to just accept I I should have asked you that question first. Uh editors editors, make sure y'all clip up that part. I want that to be one of the first clips that we put out in the next few days. Continue, Laura. Just just putting that out there. Sex sex. But but also showing that you truly genuinely desire him.

>> That's right. That's absolutely right. So, so, but genuine. So, this is not duty sex. This is not this is not, "Oh, well, I better do it so that he's not angry or so that the relationship doesn't fail." That's not >> transactional. Yeah.

>> No, that's not at all what I'm talking about. I am talking about >> doing whatever you have to do. And I didn't know it, Jeff. I I came partly I didn't say this but one of the reasons that I became a therapist was that my parents divorced when I was 11. Um I was devastated. Honest to God it probably took me 20 years to recover from it. That's a lot of expended energy trying to make sense of something that could have been stopped. So I was burning inside with a what do you what how do you do it right? How do you do it right now? I had I went through probably similar educational channels to you. So, uh the counseling diploma, not one mention of sex on the entire three years of my training. Nothing. There was no information about healthy human sexuality. I did not know um even getting married. I didn't understand male male sexual hell. I didn't I'm not a man. It's not It's a forgivable thing. I just didn't understand.

>> But now I do. I've seen the light, Jeff. I understand. So men men it's not they are not trying to take something from you. They're not they're not trying to harm you. It's nothing there's nothing weird. It's how they bond. It's how they attach. It's part of the attachment system. It's how they feel close. It's it's it's how it's how they de-stress. It's you can you can become this gigantic source of of of uh yeah profound warmth and and pleasure and and happiness. Like if you genuinely want your man to be, you know, because we talk there's so much talk about well-being. Everybody's so talk so interested in talking about well-being, but the minute you say, "Well, what about sex?" It's like, "Oh, yeah, anything but that." So, so it's not about duty and it's not about doing something that you don't want to through gritted teeth. I do not in any way promote that or advocate for that. What I'm talking about is is coming to a place of understanding that that marriage is it incorporate sex is a sexual relationship. So, you're going to want to work out how to show up there genuinely and in in in the and make it positive. So, it's going to be frequent and it's going to be positive, >> right? Everybody's going to come out feeling it feeling good about it. Not every single time cuz it's like it's it's like the runs that you have. Not every run, I don't know about you, Jeff, but every run I do doesn't make me feel splendid. Some of them aren't that great, but I'm always pleased that I'm running. Sex is the same. So, I'd say that that's number one.

So, then number two is to love being alive. So, so there's I think this is like this is and this is a life's work. I'm not saying this is a simple thing. It's it's a a a woman who is genuinely having a really cool time being here. If you know she's passionate, she is joyous. She has love for the for the world, for life, for for her children, for you know that that she has this schward devivve. She she enjoys more or less being herself. She like connected to nature, whatever it is. You know, it's different for different women. For some women, what keeps you alive? What keeps you flowing? What keeps your heart open and beating well? because he's gonna really enjoy that more than anything. You ask men, "What do you want for your wife?" They'll say, "I just wish she was happy." That's what he wants. I just wish she was not fake happy. Not hey babe, ain't this surgery I just got great. I mean, deep down she's genu like that's the thing. So, Eric from talked about milk and honey. He talked about two component parts. The ideal mother, I would stretch that. the ideal wife. So milk he's referring to care and the honey he's talking about the fact that she loves life. So those are the two component parts. That's what that's what we we we offer. Not for not for him or the kids, not out of duty, but because it's like you >> I don't know. It's like feels to me like that's what the universe wants for us. It's like you that's what that's how you're supposed to be operating. Um yes.

So I think that that that for me those are the main ones. Those are the main ones. But to be well to be sexual um yeah consider what you're offering, not just what you're owed. So so so to to to spend your life think about what what your mood does to other people. Think about whether you exercise or not. What is that doing to other people to to hold yourself accountable to get really good at consistent self-reflection? I'll talk about myself a bit here. I don't like to do it too much, but um the amount of time that I spend solitude, I cannot recommend solitude enough. So, so time alone for me it's generally in nature, hiking, running, walking the dog, whatever. But I spend at least an hour a day, usually more, alone, contemplating who I am, where I am, how I am, I want to bring the best version of myself, not only to my husband and my son, but to clients as well. So, in order for that to be the case, I have to be sane and I have to be stable. And that's on me for the most part. So that's what that's one of the things your man is going to want. He's going to want you sane, as sane as possible, and as stable as possible. Now, that requires that requires that you take responsibility for being that as much as you can. Yes. So, those are my main ones. Jeff, what did you think of them?

>> I tell you this, number one, if ladies listened to you and followed exactly that advice, we'd reach world peace.

>> We world peace. Laura, again, it's not they say all the time, men aren't complicated. So, when men say >> they just need her to be peaceful and to be quote unquote his peace, it's exactly what you just said where it's like >> if you can handle 80 to 85% of whatever's going on up here for you.

>> I have the capacity to step outside of all the things I'm supposed to be doing for myself, for you, the household, and the kids to be able to meet you with the 50 15%. That's totally >> when you make me completely responsible.

>> Yeah.

>> For everything that's going on with you. And if I don't show up in all the ways you want and and demand me to >> Yeah.

>> It impacts the household, the atmosphere, the environment, it impacts our sex life. It's just like >> a lot of times it really is those three things. And and and most importantly, you mentioned about focusing on what it is that you're willing to contribute and bring versus just what it is that you're willing to take and expect. this whole uh I am the table. Ladies, drop that. Don't say it no more. The I am the table. Uh I just had Paul Elon M on uh last week and he was saying the table is the relationship.

>> Yeah.

>> Table. What are you bringing to the relationship? What are you bringing to the marriage?

>> So when when you're and he says for a lot of guys now going forward, you mentioned it earlier, the internet is telling on the ladies. So if ladies are starting to have a little bit more difficult time, it's because social media is letting us see >> Yeah, totally.

>> Everything. And I'm now realizing if she uses too many of the talking points on social media, it's over. It's cooked because I know I'm not I'm not doing the life with her. I'm doing a life with whatever it is she's seeing on her phone.

>> Yeah.

>> And what And that's where the goalpost is moving in terms of relational satisfaction. It's not about seeing me dayto-day. It's about well so and so got this ring and so and so got this proposal and so and so had this type of shower and so and so had this type of vacation and I'm like okay are you in relationship with social media or you in relationship with me and guys are now realizing exactly what you're saying if marriage rates are going down part of that is because guys are now I think raising the bar

>> good for them

>> yeah like with with what your younger your son said it's like is it truly that he can't stand any and all young girls right now? Probably not. But the bar that he probably has now for if he is going to get a girlfriend, >> she's got to be she got to be levelheaded. She can't be crazy. She's got to be, you know, normal, saying, have healthy relationships, be able to see what they both need. And I think >> I think the bar going up, but ladies in their late 20s, 30s, or even 40s, but still not knowing what it is that men want, that's the issue. So, I I 100% agree with you. And now I'm going to say the way you were spitting some of those bars, you might be in the wrong field. You might might have been should have been a preacher because

>> I know I do.

>> That was the truth.

>> I could have done that.

>> I could have done that. That our florist.

>> And the crazy part is when women say something that makes other women upset and other men are gravitating to, I'm like, what's that person saying? because I have to listen because I'm like nine times out of ten it's not to say like women don't ever believe the truth when it comes to this subject matter um I see it they they really really are invested in their list of demands which is fine um but not being as interested in what is it that he would be looking for so I really really appreciate that so two more questions just don't because I don't want to hold you any longer um considering at your work and my work, we're often trying to save relationships and keep people together.

>> Let's go to the other end of that spectrum. Um, when should a man or woman leave a marriage, a relationship in your opinion?

>> That's a good question. Um, so I would say most marriages are are worth fighting for. you know, it a a a marriage is a I think it's a sacred thing and it saddens me that we're that we're we're we're doing away with that. Um, yeah, so so I'm not one to urge people to give up without without effort, you know. Um, I'm a fan of of of a serious attempt to fix something. And if if if all of the attempts that you've made thus far are not working, don't try the same stuff over and over again, you know, if it's been years, then then it might be worth getting someone to help and and finding somebody who actually really is interested in both people, both sides, you know, somebody that's going to advocate for the marriage, not for the individuals within it. Um, so so and I do believe that that what I will say is that it is poss I do think it's possible to change one person can change a marriage. Um, you know, that that that if you work if you work seriously on yourself I'm generally speaking an advocate of uh asking yourself I tell couples all the time stop the blame game. It's it's a dreadful affliction. is literally getting you nowhere. You're ruining your children's lives. The blame game. You know, everybody's happy to talk about child development till the cows come home, but for some reason, one of the things we do not talk about very often is the impact of a bad marriage on children. It's like it's this sort of quiet thing that nobody wants to mention. Um, but if you're engaging in the blame game, if you and your if your marriage is cold and you, anyone watching will know what I mean. If the temperature's been turned down to freeze, you know, and it's likely that both of you are doing it, and generally speaking, it's that whether you're saying it to each other or just thinking dreadful things about each other, you're engaging in that endless cycle of toxic blame. Um, so I encourage couples all the time, stop doing that immediately. And it's a it's a it's a process that doesn't happen overnight. Um, but you wanna you want to start noticing when you do it, when you're blaming your partner in your head, listing their faults, thinking bad things, and then when you're saying those things out loud as well, and start instead to look at how you show up, >> what are you contributing? What does your tone do to the room? What is your withdrawal or withholding? Your cold weekl long silences, your your phone addiction, your porn problem, your overeating, overspending, the list goes on. Start to focus on what you're contributing. And and you can do that. That's a decision. And I've made such decisions myself. I did it 10 years ago. clocked that I I had a a an unhealthy level of general negativity that was a was a sort of uh byproduct of a relatively unhealthy childhood. Uh and I was projecting that predominantly into the marriage and onto my husband. And it was so fast I I noticed it was like, hey, that negativity is mine. Um, and I'm going to change it. And I did. It was It didn't happen immediately, but it was faster than you can possibly imagine. It was sweet, Jeff. It was like It was like It was like a I did it really in a month. It sort of took the tendrils of it lasted slightly longer, but I managed to turn it around. So, yes, you can you can one person can change it and it will I promise you it will not be gen and it's not that I'm saying that you don't ever get to to concern yourself with what your partner might be doing to you. That's obviously part of it. However, it's not as powerful as as a decision to to work on what you're contributing that's toxic or dysfunctional. So, that's that's what I would say. So, don't don't give up. maybe and I can't decide for other people what the time scale would be but I would say generally speaking if it's if if you're at the end of your tether 6 months 3 to six months of genuine effort where you look at yourself and sort of what you could do I would say that what I then would say is that I would not encourage anybody to stay uh to tolerate misery long term that's not a noble act I wouldn't do it if there was if so so If uh this is connected to you want to have a very good understanding of who you are and what you want from the relationship and if you're genuinely not getting that and it's making you miserable um then you want to communicate it clearly. Try to be positive talk about use I statements rather than blame. Ask for change. You could say something like I love you. I want our marriage to work but I'm miserable. I'm so interested in seeing if we can turn our marriage around, but I don't think I can ultimately do it on my own. Are you interested and and you know start that conversation? Um, yes. So then I guess if nothing changes then then perhaps you're looking at setting a clear time boundary. But you no one can make that decision for you. That's a obviously a profoundly personal personal decision. Um, and to me it would be based on on the severity of the issue and how long it's gone for and what you see in terms of change eventually from the other person.

>> I I feel like you're my twin from the UK. I'm starting to realize this because so much of your approach is how I I've I've approached it where especially where I actually will go sessions where I say I actually don't want to hear >> anything about the other party.

>> Yeah.

>> And they be like what? But there's so much I got to tell you. And I'm like we going to get there. I promise you I'm going to set aside time for that. But but you came in already telling me what's wrong with him. you came in telling me about what she's not doing.

>> I'm more interested in like you said, how are you showing up? What what's the what's the even down to like you and you mentioned it.

>> What's the negative thinking that you think that we probably can reframe? Uh and and again, I've gotten it where it would be like, is there anything that you're appreciative or grateful for about this person? And once we start building up that list and then we come up with ways to kind of remind themselves about what they do have versus just what they don't

>> um at minimum it doesn't make the problems go away but it kind of balances it where it's not as bad like when I was only seeing it through the through um the worst lens possible. Of course anything so dinner was cold then she he was late. Now you know he he he uh forgot to take the trash out. He's the worst husband ever. like he forgot to take the trash out. It wasn't that deep, right? So, I I love that.

So, then a final question. You know, with your experience personally, professionally, what you've seen on the news >> with everything you know, the trends that you see, if you could be honest, do you believe things will actually get better between the sexes or worse?

>> Uh, I think perhaps worse for a bit. I think honestly my concern is that um that it it it may be that things get worse and I'm an optimist so I'm hoping that it's a trend. So based on based on the current trend um the trends it's probably we're probably looking at worse before better. Um, so yes and I say that because sex is declining >> uh mistrust is rising. Um birth rates are collapsing. So yeah. So, so again like the testosterone levels if you don't know what the act because they tell you the world's overpop populated. That's the that's the that's the constant um what's one of the the the the uh the messages, right? But the truth is if you look at the experts studying birth rates that yeah that they're collapsing. So um I'm again I'm not an expert but look into that because it's interesting. Um, so sexlessness, the risk is that sexlessness becomes normal and and I don't know about about in the US, but in the UK they're they're promoting living alone. Um, it's terrifying. This is this is my my field, our field. So the leaders in the field in the UK, people like the BACP, the UKCP, they're promoting uh singlehood, they're promoting living alone there. It's it's there's this strange uh I would say yeah. Yeah. Unnerving messaging regarding the opposite of family. So for that reason, those reasons and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'd say we're looking at at worst before it gets better. But I I think that this is not a it's not going to be solved politically. It's going to be solved on a grassroots level. What I would say is that the problem part of the a major part of the problem is the media. So it comes back to this being very discerning about what you allow through to stream through your consciousness. Um, I talk about, you know, the character from Lord of the Rings, I think he's called Worm Tongue, where he whispers and he he makes the king, isn't the king dreadful looking, you know, and um he's I feel like the media is like that. It's, you know, if you listen, men are bad, men are, you know, men are going to hurt you. Men are, you know, then then you're going to you're being poisoned. So, the answer is to switch it off. It's to it's throw out your I I think I've thought for a long time because we don't have a TV. We we don't watch we don't we do not we have got a television set so sorry we occasionally bring it down to watch because I I still love the old movies. Um, but we don't I don't the TV we don't have a TV on. But this is most people's experiences that we got rid of the fire and it was replaced by this big black box dripping absolute garbage into the hearts and souls of of your brothers and sisters and you can just switch it off like getting rid of a bad friend or a shitty parent. You can you can recognize it as the harmful thing that is. Switch it off and then start to base your experience. Start to base what you think about reality on the ex actual experiences that you have with your brothers and sisters that people hold the doors and you know they they'd come to your aid if you had an accident. So base your experience your what you think about reality on on the actual experiences that you have. And it's round the dinner table. It's it's it's in the whilst you're waiting to pay for your groceries. It's the kind the everyday kindnesses that occur everywhere. That's that's where you that's where you're going to remember that people are good. We fix everything. Human beings. We fix we try and fix everything. We clear everything up. You see it. All the structures, all the systems that exist to ensure that your world keeps functioning. All of that is done by everyday men and women everywhere. Do not continue to allow this nonsense ideology to to deconstruct reality. That's what I'd say. So, it's it's like it it it starts between us. We'll fix it between us by remembering um that that we are that we're a collaborative profoundly collaborative species. Um, and and that's the truth. So so that's what I think. Um, we're supposed to take the very best of care of each other that we can. Um, that's in our nature to do that. Um, so yeah, I see it as a as the media as this ma massive worm tongue style character that's poisoning us all against each other. It's very sad. my I I I actually agree with you that I actually think it's going probably going to get a little bit worse, but the mechanisms that I think would change it. One of them being what I think is already happening when it comes to audience and fans to certain industries. Marvel, Disney and Marvel on our end and the US base is excellent, excellent examples where they tried to take so much of what you described that you're seeing. They brought that into the comic book uh superhero movie space. Yeah, they did. >> And they lost a couple billion dollars. >> They did. They did. That's right. >> Yeah. Right. So, they're cancelling shows. They're they're they're removing a lot of language that the consumers, the actual fans are saying, hey, I think it's Marvel's two or three or something that's supposed to be coming out. They just did a a test run with some audience and I think they got like a 26 out of 100 score. So they're making it known like >> this ongoing issue like there could be things that's reserved for women like Barbie we recently came out young girls that was an unapologetically thing meant for girls and and women and that was fine. Um and there there's allowed to be a space like that for boys and it doesn't mean that when something's catered towards men or boys it inherently has to be misogynist and inherently is problematic and that women have to take up that space. Women got plenty of their own spaces and territories. Men are not trying to encroach. I think we're and I think what you're doing, what I'm doing and many people in the last 5 to 8 years are attempting to do. We may be part of the trend that tries to balance the scales and get people and I love what you said is >> take your eyes off of your exes and look at the world around you >> and you realize more often than not the men and women you actually interact with aren't that bad. They're holding doors for each other. Like you said, that they're saying hello. They're still not >> not everybody's like that, but most people are. And your most negative experiences by and large often were just the people you chose. And and I'm like, "All right, maybe I got to reevaluate the last three or four women I've been with, why it wasn't working out, how did I show up, what was I aiming for, and vice versa with the ladies." So, Laura, please keep doing what you're doing. Um I I love what you're doing from over there. We definitely want you to come back on, especially when we have some panel um coming soon. Um real quick before you let everybody know where they can find and support you. Um, how did you feel about the interview?

>> I loved the interview. Uh I've been de I've had the best time. I'm a bit worried that I've that I've taken up too much of your time to be honest, Jeeoff, but I've enjoyed it so much. I felt so comfortable. I was ever so worried about about coming on, but I I've been uh I was instantly relaxed by your presence. So, I've I've just had the very best of time. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed myself. Thank you for giving me a platform to to speak about about some of the things that I feel passionately about.

>> Thank you. Uh believe it or not, again, you and many other people who I've come across the last several years were actually major influencing uh figures for me that actually pushed me like, you know, I think I could do this, too. So, so thank you because you you were out there long before I was and uh knocking down some doors that maybe made it a little easier for me. Um, why don't you let everybody know where they can find and support you?

>> So they can come and find me. So I have my website laurahhow.com. Um, so that's that's full of articles uh about relationships generally. But if if you if if sexlessness is what you're facing, then there there's a a wealth of information. You don't need to come and see me. You don't need to spend a dollar or a pound. you can get so much of the information that that I would share with you if we were working together is is available there. Um, yes, so uh also YouTube you can find me uh at Laura How. So that's where all of these conversations these uh radical direct conversations about these subjects are happening. If you if you feel like subscribing that would be an amazing thing because obviously that's how the channel grows. It's how it's how we get we get out to people. Um, I have a podcast, the Love and Cherish podcast. You can find me there on Spotify and I'm also on Rumble.

>> Everybody that's currently watching now and in the future, please make sure that you subscribe and follow Laura and all the respective platforms that she's mentioned. We're going to make sure we put all that stuff in the description of this video. And guys, please make sure that you like it and that you hype it, hype it, hype it. Laura, thank you for coming through. I want to give some closing remarks and I'm going to talk to you soon.

>> It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.