Transcription
The aforementioned Chris Hedges is the political commentator, supreme former head of the New York Times Middle East Bureau, a Puliter Prize winner, a man with more finesse in his little finger on foreign affairs than little Marco Rubio has in his entire body. How I wish Chris Hedges was the Secretary of State of the United States, but then he wouldn't be joining me now on the mother of all talk shows. Chris, welcome back uh to the show.
I know it's not your kind of thing uh because your mind operates on a higher level than all that, but how do you think Trump is playing the Epstein affair?
Not well. Uh, we know that he's mentioned 38,000 times in the emails. We know that upwards of a thousand FBI agents were uh directed to redact uh the millions of pages of documents and email exchanges to protect uh not only Trump, but uh we have pretty strong evidence to protect Netanyahu. uh and uh each leak is eroding uh his denials of malfeasants or criminal activity in terms of the abuse of minors. Uh and of course we saw as you mentioned uh very concerted effort on the part of Trump to block uh this latest release but the erosion of support for that blockage within the Republican party crumbled to such an extent uh that he was forced although of course as I mentioned these documents are redacted in a way to protect him he was forced to release them uh but they've been cataclysmic.
Interestingly enough, more so in the UK, in Norway, uh, than in the United States, and that, I think, is a window into the breakdown of democratic institutions, the ability to hold political leaders accountable. Uh, I find it fascinating that Starmer is in political trouble. Of course, he was in political trouble before this latest release. Uh, and he's not mentioned in the files. Trump is all over these files.
Yes. I mean, why is that? Is it merely uh the democratic deficit in the US? In other words, the uh political class can ignore public opinion or is public opinion in the US not all that roused by this? uh do they perhaps just imagine that those that rule them and own them uh are these kind of people and there's nothing to be surprised about in the Epstein files.
No, I think that they are aroused and uh and you've seen a deterioration in uh Trump's base in particular that uh younger generation, the people who gathered around the assassinated uh Charlie Kirk and uh uh those people aren't buying it. Uh but there's no ability. I mean, the Justice Department is Pam Bondi is just sycopant like most of the appointees. uh Lewig, all these other people who are implicated. Uh but of course the Democratic party is not free from this stain. You have powerful Democratic figures, a former senator from Maine, George Mitchell, of course Clinton and others who are also caught up in the Epstein files. I mean very sadly for many of us uh this latest release exposed uh numerous uh engagements between Nam Chosky and uh and Epstein. Uh so no it it it has but I think it's a it's a window whatever the anemic quality of democracy is in the UK it's far healthier than in the United States where we don't have the mechanisms by which we can hold our political class Democrat or Republican in this case of course the Trump White House accountable and that's very frightening.
Well, God help you if you're even worse than we are. But there is no story other than this in the British media and in the British political class dominating uh and and of course the ripples of it uh revealed that Starmmer didn't just appoint Peter Mandel to the Plum Post in Washington knowing as he must have known as he must have been told by our security services the depth of a depth and darkness of the relationship between Mandlesson and Deepstein. It's like uh London buses. They all turn up at once. There's now a new scandal of a man that was appointed by Starmer to the House of Lords as a member of Parliament for life having been uh an important official in Kier Starmer's office who turns out to be as thick as thieves with a convicted pedophile, repeated sex offender, indecent images, all the horrors. uh that we're seeing tumbling out of the Epstein affair. Now we've got our own homegrown one and that dominated prime minister's questions. Today people in Britain are concluding uh that our rulers are filthy degenerates. Uh they're not just betrayers. They're not just uh disappointments, letdowns, sellouts. They're also filthy degenerates. And that's not far off the mark in your country or in mine. I mean, it is a bit surprising that the White House lawn is not thronged with people with pitchforks right now.
Yeah. No, I I think that and you saw before during the campaign, the last presidential campaign, uh there was uh huge push by Trump's base and of course he promised to release all of the Epstein files. A huge push by Trump's base for transparency over what had happened because people suspected correctly that across the political spectrum, Democrat and Republican, uh these people were and are corrupt, filthy degenerates. And of course, this confirms uh precisely what they suspected. Uh now, what's going to happen? There are still millions of documents that have not been released to the public defying a congressional demand. Uh uh the the the Justice Department says this is the last dump. But is it? uh you are seeing uh kind of chipping away at the Trump uh image at the at and you're getting closer and closer to uh Trump uh culpability bec and he's mentioned so many times it's and then we have testimony these women have been bought off but there was one I think her pseudonym was Kate Miller who claims that Trump raped her when she was 13 years old with very uh kind of awful graphic detail she has since disappeared. Uh uh so uh you know where is this gonna go? It it it this is the one thing that could probably destroy Trump. And I think the reason is because sexual abuse of both boys and girls in the United States is rampant. Uh I did a book on the Christian right called American Fascists, the Christian Right and the War on America. And what was fascinating I spent two years on the book and I was in all the mega churches and right to life weekends and what were the I didn't put it in the book because it was anecdotal but I would say uh almost 90% of the women that I interviewed in that for that book had had suffered sexual assault, sexual abuse. Uh and and and so it it hits close to home personally for many people within the Trump base. It's just something they can't overlook. Um, and and and you know, George, we have because when the FBI went into Epstein's mansion in New York, he had a safe the size of a closet. And we know that there were stacks of uh CDs or uh that had recorded because he recorded everything in these bedrooms. Why these figures like Gates and others were so stupid to go up into a bedroom in a mansion, you know, mystifies me, but uh uh that's not been released. And we and it says uh you know unidentified. They redacted the name of the of the girl or the woman. Um but you know many many men I mean and and of course what do we have a PM who prime minister? I don't know whether they specified the country. So it could be Boris Johnson as you have uh suggested but it could be Ahood Barack. He was there a lot too. He's also prime minister with Gain Maxwell and Epstein. I mean that's a tape that would put you off sex for probably a decade. Uh but we know that these videos and and those have not been released.
Now, you and I have discussed before the uh really quite obvious decline in Donald Trump in his mental acuity at least. Uh I saw him on television last night saying that he had put uh tariffs on Switzerland because he didn't like the way the Swiss prime minister had spoken to him. Remarkable enough reason in any case for putting on tariffs. more remarkable because Switzerland does not have a prime minister. Uh and uh this decline in Donald Trump is dangerous, is it not? After all, your country and its military machine is poised for war in multiple theaters. And the guy who's the commanderin-chief is quite obviously beginning to lose his marbles.
Yeah. Well, that uh is just a continuity with the previous administration. We have two uh presidents who one who was completely or pretty much scenile and the others who is rapidly approaching sility. Uh what it means is that and this has I think been true throughout the entire Trump administration is he's not running things. uh he he's impulsive. He'll make certain decisions. Uh but the the all of these people grouped around project 2025 unfortunately who are quite competent and know what they want to do uh are dismantling uh the state uh eviscerating the most basic civil liberties. I mean we are watching American citizens being gunned down in the streets of our cities by death squads. There's just no other way to describe these goons with ice with their faces covered uh killing with impunity. A 96 court orders in the month of January in Minneapolis against ICE, all of which have just been ignored. Uh and that's extremely frightening because it just shows that there's no constraint within the judicial system. There's no legal constraint. these people can run roughshot over uh law uh and there's no accountability and that of course is the portal into any authoritarian or police state. Indeed, it defines police states. So I I look at what's happening in the UK and the UK is a pretty decrepit democracy, but I look at that juxtiposition with where we are. Uh and I see us barreling down towards this black hole with almost nothing to stop it and and and I think that the the Epstein releases uh have just confirmed uh confirmed it. And it it's very very scary.
No, we're lack time. Malas, I could talk to you all night, but we've got a big enchilada to talk about. Uh, and that is the Persian Gulf. Uh, an area of your specialization, as I said in your introduction, Puliter Prize winner, New York Times Middle East bureau. With all of your experience, expertise, uh, and touch for these matters, is Trump going to attack Iran in your view?
There's heavy opposition to a war with Iran within the Pentagon. That has always been the case. Um, you know, to the extent Netanyahu wants it, of course, in the same way that he wanted the war with Iraq. Uh, the the the creation of these failed states has become Israeli policy, whether that's in Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else. in the idea that this increases Israeli military dominance throughout the region. Iran is the last uh kind of country of any with any potency to challenge Israel. Uh and so there will be a heavy push. Trump is beholden to Israel not only in terms of massive amounts of donations from Miriam Adlesen, I think hund00 million. Uh but let's be clear and this is another issue. It's a question to what extent uh Epstein was working for the Mossad and for the Israelis. I think that when having read through much of the uh correspondence in the emails, it's clear that he was extremely close to the Israeli intelligence service, whether that meant he just fed them stuff gratuitously or whether uh that meant that he and of course Ahood Barack used to run Israeli intelligence uh you know, but there's clear links. So the question that many of us have is does Israel have this kind of compromising material on Trump of which we expect or assume that there's quite a quite a massive volume. Uh so you know that that's it's an unknown. Trump is mercurial. He's impulsive. He changes his mind three times within an hour. Um, I don't rule anything out, but uh, a war with Iran uh, does have heavy opposition within the American military establishment. Uh, it would go about as well as any of these other debacles in the Middle East. uh and potentially uh not only uh be uh quite uh ownorous or punitive towards the United States, but a war of attrition is something that Israel cannot endure. Iran clearly inflicted damage the last time uh that the Iranians and Israelis and Americans went at it and the Israelis worked as you know quite hard to cover up what was hid and not just the Weissman Institute but other areas as well. Um, so I I don't have a clear answer. Um, but I think that the pressure that Israel is able to exert on Trump is significant and Israel wants it.
I mean, this is the seventh, if not the eighth visit in Trump's second term that Netanyahu has made. You could perhaps a working thesis might be if Trump was already sold on the war with Iran. He wouldn't have needed to come back. Uh one thesis I hear and read is that Netanyahu is worried that Trump is not going to go to war with Iran. What's your take on that?
I think that that is correct that that Trump is leaning in the other direction and you see that with his support for the negotiations. Of course, the United States apparently is demanding that uh the Iranian nuclear program be completely dismantled, which Iran is not going to accept. And I think that we can't stress enough that uh Israel has a a formidable nuclear arsenal. uh and the idea that uh Israel a hostile state is and they of course they did it by defying uh the by by essentially building it in secret uh u and by uh allowing Israel to dominate or or hold nuclear weapons. I mean why why did they go after Saddam Hussein and not after North Korea? Well, we know the answer to that. Um so uh I I think that I think you're right. Right. I mean, Trump is hard to read, but it does appear that he he's not inclined to go after Iran militarily. However, again, he could wake up tomorrow and, you know, he he he's not consistent. There's no consistency in Trump at all. So, in that sense, he's very he's so impulsive and he's so stupid. It's very very hard to read. Oh, he could wake up tomorrow with uh with some videos uh under his pillow slipped there in the night by by Netanyahu. The compromat uh may be unlimited, bottomless. Uh well, it's just enough to know that they have.
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But one last thing, that's how they got because you're a very. That's how they got volimer. You know that the Yugoslavs had all the records and SF a savvy guy. You're such a savvy guy. Chris, let me ask you this. Um I had never heard of Jeffrey Epstein before until the beginning of uh these problems. You will have because you're based in the USA. But it's quite clear to me now that Epstein was a much more important figure than most of us ever imagined. This is a guy at the center of everything and everybody uh anybody who was anybody in that part of the polity was connected somehow to Epstein. Even as you say uh our former comrade Nam Chomsky uh was in bed with them metaphorically speaking uh he was involved in multiple international uh theaters Ukraine, Somaliand uh potential coup against Putin. He even had a candidate picked to run for president of Russia. This was a very important guy and who seemed to rise without trace. H how is that? What was he? Who was he?
That is what that's the enigma. Uh he's uneducated. He never finished college. That doesn't mean you're uneducated, but he didn't he's not well educated. You can see he can barely write English. Constant grammatical uh spelling errors. Um, I mean that is the question. Uh, and there have been investigations into the source of his considerable wealth. Uh, much of it coming from Wexler who owns Victoria's Secret clearly, but maybe other sources. We that that we don't know. Uh I think what these Epstein files elucidate is that there is a depraved corrupt ruling global elite that has created a club uh that has locked the rest of us out. I mean one of the fascinations for me in reading the emails is how toy and and you use the word correctly depraved these people are because we don't get a look into their private life. They have lawyers and publicists and uh you know all sorts of ways to create a public face that is at complete variance with their own moral uh decay and and that's what these emails expose. But not just of course the American political elite, but the British political elite, the Norwegian royal family, the British royal family, uh, you know, out of the Middle East, wherever it is. But they they are all these this is the billionaire class or the servants of the billionaire class who unfortunately are are running the world are are and as they are as as large segments of the population are waking up as to who these people are. They are rapidly imposing authoritarian states. I mean in the UK you have through Palestine action people thrown in prison for nonviolent civil disobedience. I mean this is really and of course they went on hunger strike and um and they've violated all sorts of UK laws to hold them there on remand without bringing them to trial etc. This is also true in the United States. So that's what we're seeing as these elites are being exposed globally. these elites, they are reaching for the lever of uh of police tyranny, police terror even in the United States to retain control. And I think that's what this moment, this particular historical moment furthered by the Epstein files elucidate.