Mark Mandic of Markus Jayne: The Fire Still Burns After 20+ Years!

What's going on everybody? It is 8 o'clock on the East Coast. It's 7 o'clock here in Minnesota, and let me tell you, spring is here, and it's it's the legit one, none of that fake spring. The, uh, the the shipping windows open. We can go nationwide now instead of just the local sales. It's real, and it's magnificent. And, uh, by the way, I got, uh, Mark Mandic from Marcus Jane in The Green Room. Stick around.

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Good evening, everybody. Thank you for being here tonight. It's another Tuesday night, another episode. But, uh, as I mentioned in the intro there, uh, Mark Mandic from Marcus Jane is on the show tonight, and I genuinely don't know where else he would be. Uh, this is, um, it's kind of cheesy to talk this way about the person like listening in the green room, but, uh, Mark is somebody that I've had on my like list for a long time. Um, I'll be honest, never really had the guts to ask him to join the show, which in retrospect, I should have done sooner. But, uh, I got to meet him back, uh, briefly in October at Tinley, and absolute gentleman, and very kind to me. And then I saw, you'll see it here in a minute, I don't want to ruin any surprises, but he's been working on some new presentations. We'll just put it that way. And I saw a post recently, and I was like, you know what? That's it. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna send a note to the guy. And if he says no, then he says no. But if he says yes, I, I get to have him on the show. So, uh, yeah, spoiler, he's here. So, uh, stick around for that tonight. Thank you all for being here. Uh, I hope that you're doing well. There is legitimately, like, I know it sounds crazy, but after you go through a Minnesota winter, when when you're convinced that spring is here, it's like this, uh, it's, it's really kind of a neat, like, mental rejuvenation, uh, which I never had in Florida. So, anyhow, I'm feeling good. Um, the nationwide sales are picking up. I got three animals that I'm shipping out tomorrow and more inquiries from across the country, so I'm excited for that. I hope things are well wherever you are at, and that, uh, you get to enjoy a little bit of spring as well.

Couple very, very quick announcements, uh, because I want to get right to our guests tonight and to the content. Um, first and foremost, April 4th, that's a Friday night, is the, uh, Epic Exotic Pet Industry Conference. That is the digital online conference. If you're not familiar with it, I will play a, uh, a little promo for it, uh, a little later tonight, but you should check it out. Adam Wickens, Brian Cusco, uh, Josh from Josh's Frogs, uh, uh, Robin Marklin from Redline, uh, many, many presenters, over 20 presenters on five different industry tracks across our industry. It is a, uh, truly a, a conference that solves the problem of having to travel and all the overhead that goes with it. It's totally free, and the time is now to sign up. So if you go to epic.live, that is the website, epic.live, you can learn all about it, um, and see all of the presenters. And we still have a couple, couple, couple last minute announcements to make, so I'm pretty excited about that. April 4th, mark your calendars on that. That's coming up. That's April 4th. April 6th, I'll be in Sioux Falls, South Dakota vending. Then the following weekend, which that would be April 13th, I'll be here in Minneapolis, uh, vending the Cold Blooded Expo show. And then two weeks after that, so I guess that would be the 27th, is that week? So must be the 25th through the 27th, I will be at the All-American Reptile and Plant Expo in Castle Rock, Colorado. So four big events coming up for me in April. I hope I get to see you guys somewhere. But, uh, again, I should see all of you at Epic. That's that would be just ridiculous to miss out on that opportunity. So again, it's free, you just got to sign up, get your ticket, and get yourself in the door on that digital conference.

Um, other than that, proper royals.com is up to date. If you all saw one of my reels this week, I posted a reel about the frozen rodents from Cold Blooded Cafe. Use the promo code proper11, get yourself 11% off of your frozen rodent, uh, order. If you've used that code recently, try it again. It's been reset recently. So, uh, you know, that's not, it's not insignificant when you get a chance to save that money on those orders. Those are usually in the couple hundred bucks.

Tonight's guest, Mark Mandic. Uh, very gracious to be here, and, um, I've been inspired in many ways by him over, over the few years that I've been at this. When I first, what sticks out in my mind and has stuck with me for a long time, when I first first started, uh, going from kind of hobby to business, rather than just having, you know, a pet banana ball python, I had looked at MorphMarket and, you know, saw the prices and I was like, so I got to figure out how to do this. Somebody's making money here, maybe I can. And I started researching how to breed ball pythons. And I bet to this day, if you Google how to breed ball pythons, Mark's website is the website that comes up. Beautiful pictures, beautiful descriptions, eternally searchable, just classic evergreen content posted in a really fantastic way. And I spent a lot of time, uh, researching that. I spent a lot of time in my first few years and first few clutches referring back to that. So I got to see that. And then, uh, I think either maybe on some comments or somebody had maybe mentioned Mark to me, but presentation, vending, I always envisioned it as like, uh, in from my days, uh, running weddings, you know, you, you want things to be positioned just right, with purpose, with intention, with thought, coordination, all of that. And, and I've seen Mark's show setups, and they're just fantastic. Tonight, in just a second, you're going to get to see another example of that. So anyway, uh, I, I've always looked up to Mark, but I hadn't really had a chance to tell him that. And, uh, I met him, like I say, briefly at Tinley, and I was like, holy sh, Mark Mandic, right there. I got a little, I got a little nervous, you know. So anyway, enough, uh, of the gushing, let's get down to some content. And, uh, tonight is, uh, you know, a little bit about where Mark Mandic has come from, but I'm so inspired by how, uh, kind of charged he is for the future, especially from his posts. So, uh, if you would, for the very first time, please welcome Mark Mandic from Marcus Jane to the Proper Royal stage. Mark, thanks for being here tonight, man.

My pleasure, Adam. Nice to, uh, be invited finally. It's such a, I know, like, now I feel like a, anyway, uh, no, it's all right. Yeah, no, thank you very much. And, uh, and just for the record, the door is open anytime. Anytime you get the itch, just be like, hey, Adam, how about Tuesday? And I'll be like, yeah, we're going to make this happen. So that works for me.

Oh, thank you so much. Hey, that, uh, that room looks fantastic. I gotta put you on, I gotta put you on the big screen here. Hang on. Not that one. Hang on. There's too many buttons. Right. H. Well, I promise. There it is. All right, man. Your room looks fantastic. Tell us about what you've been cooking up. What you got going on in there?

Well, I had, I had this space here that was basically used, you know, for storage. In the last few years, it's been many things, but, uh, at one point, I'm going to say 35 years ago, I edited my first video down here. I had, I, I built a suite to, uh, edit videos because I was trying to sell a horse. And I, I was like, okay, uh, I contacted a guy in Oklahoma. I said, I've got this really nice mare, and he owned the father of this mare, and I thought, well, maybe he might want to get daughters, you know, to help promote the stallion. And he said, can you send me a video? And back then, we didn't have phones, right? That shot video. You, you had to shoot, you know, on a camera. And, uh, we had VHS videos. Yeah. So, so I, I went out and I shot this horse doing different things, uh, with a VHS camera. And then I, I had two VHS recorders, and I put the, you know, the video on one side, and I would take this clip and put it over. Oh, you were pinging on a? Oh, yeah. My gosh. So that's how old I am, Adam. I remember, I don't even know if I should say this out loud. I remember my father and my uncle, they each had a VHS, and they'd go to the video store, and we could rent a video, and then the other one would record it while we're playing.

That's what you were doing. Clip by clip. Abol. Yeah, clip by clip, picking the different clips. So then I put this whole thing together. And, uh, I thought, you know what? That music could be really good with this too. So I managed to figure out how to get music on the VHS as a soundtrack. And I actually use the music, uh, from The Man from Snowy River. I don't know if you remember that.

I know I'm not familiar at all. It's, it's a classic Australian horse movie. I'm, I'm originally from Australia. I didn't know.

So it was, it was kind of close to my heart. And, uh, so I did this video and had the music to it. And I sent it to this guy, and he was a good old boy. I mean, he was cowboy through and through, you know. And, and so he called me right away. He says, he says, hell, that was a hell of a video you sent me. He says, nobody's ever done that before, you know, whatever the way you've done it with music. He said, I can't help but buy this horse. So, and he did. He end, he ended up buying the horse. And then from there, I had such a good time piecing that video together, hitting the marks with the music and everything like that. I decided, you know, I, I want to start making some videos. So I did. And it led to a, a job at a TV station making TV commercials. And, and I had made, uh, that video, which was nothing to write home about, but I had done another video for a horse farm because I was very involved in horses. And I said, you know, can I do a video for you? He was a friend of mine, and he said, sure. Do you know how to make a video? And I said, not really, but I, I'm sure I can figure it out. And I went and bought all this equipment and set it up in this room. It was, it was my editing suite. And I ended up making this, I made the video, and, uh, it turned out really, really well. And, uh, used some great music and everything like that. And then I took it to a local TV station because they were looking for somebody, uh, to do a bit part in a commercial. So I kind of applied, and, and I got the part. And I said to the guy at, we were having lunch, I said, um, I made this video, I'd like to show it to you if possible. And he said, sure. So I gave him the video, waited a few days, and he called me. He says, he says, that was an amazing video. He say, it really was. He said, how many videos like, have you been doing this? While, how many have you done? I said, including that, this one. He said, yeah. I said, one. And he said, would you be interested in a job? And I said, I would. And, uh, few weeks later, I was hired as a commercial producer.

Wow. Do you, is that what you consider, uh, your career? Like, I, I like the idea that most people in our industry, like the snakes, aren't their career. Like they have this, they have this expertise that they came from. Which, so what do you sort of consider that way, or is it now the snakes? Like that was, that was a stepping stone.

I mean, that was, that was the snakes. I left there, I think, 22 years ago. Okay. All right. So pretty quick. And so I've been doing, I did it for 10 years. I eventually became the head of the commercial production department. And, uh, but I discovered these snakes, and they called to me. It was something new, and something, you know, I could really get into. I thought I saw an incredibly bright future in them. And, uh, after three years of owning snakes, I decided to quit my job at the TV station and go work, uh, and do this full-time. So, you know, it, it was one of my careers. I've had many careers, um, but, you know, that's, that's what life is about, you know? If you could stick your toe in several things, or taste it's like going to a buffet, you know, you try different things, and things you like, you go back for more. And that's kind of what I did. I did, I mean, I could have, you got a couple hours.

I set a little time aside each Tuesday. Um, well, let me ask you though, this, what, what was the, you said, so this would have been around 2000, rough math, I guess. Uh, what was the gene or the combo or the morph that that that showed you so much promise? That that kind of like, what was that hook in those days? Like now, I can imagine there's 99 things that would hook people that have never seen ball pythons, but in those days, what was it?

It's gonna shock you. Um, well, I just got a text from my wife. She just landed in Lima, Peru. Wow. Okay. Yeah, she's on her way to Machu Picchu, uh, with a group of, I think, 16 people. Oh, fantastic. I'm glad she got there safe. It's, uh, yeah, yeah. So that was that was nice to see. Um, the, okay, it will surprise you. Um, I mean, I first got introduced to ball pythons in in fall of 1999, purchased my first ball python in, uh, 2000. And the one that got me the most excited was, uh, pastel. Really? Really? Yeah. And, and back then, they were called pastel jungles, okay? And, and it was, uh, Greg Riani was the founder of pastel jungles. And, uh, I befriended, uh, Greg. We had a lot of things in common. And, uh, I eventually bought, you know, my first male from him and a bunch of normal females because I couldn't get any females up here. It was really hard to do.

How did you geographically? How, and I mean, we had the internet in those days, so it wasn't impossible, but it wasn't like now where you could just fire off messages and stuff. How'd you connect with Greg in those days?

Uh, I called him. Yeah, old-fashioned way, you know, pick up a phone and, and hopefully, you know, he answers. So, yeah. And he did. And, and we, we talked for hours, I mean, about snakes and stuff like that, because I was, you know, he had been doing it for some time to the point that, you know, he had found this new gene and proved it out and whatever. And I was all about, look, you know, this, this is going to be a huge industry one day. And, and he was curious. I mean, he believed it as well, but he was also curious as to why this new guy from Canada, right, thought, you know, ball pythons was going to be absolutely huge. And, uh, I think I was right. I think so.

Or, uh, on that topic, though, do you think, do you think we've reached that hugeness, or do you think that there's still huge avenues ahead?

Uh, you know, I think there's huge avenues ahead. Um, I don't think we're going to be discovering that many more genes out of the wild. I think we're going to see a lot of genes that come within, you know, collections, very similar to, you know, my scrambler gene. Mhm. Um, my Java gene, all came from, you know, within. Um, and, you know, the, uh, axanthic, MJ axanthic, um, but I think it's, it's a lot like, it's going to be like the koi market, because, you know, there's no new things happening that I know of in the koi market, but it's still absolutely huge. And I think, you know, in order to prepare it further, we need to not just have, uh, shows where we vend at, but we also need to have shows where we show, meaning where people can actually win best of class, best of this, best of that. I mean, if you look at any livestock industry that flourishes, whether it be dogs, cats, horses, you know, even fish, to, well, obviously fish. I mean, when you get koi selling for over a million dollars, it's because they want a, they want a big show. Yeah. We don't do that. And, and, you know, I'm not the one to organize it at this point, but I hope, you know, somebody out there, Kayne G, hears it and organizes something like, or Steve, you know, Stephen Caps. Um, because I, I think that you, if you can show that you've won, you know, certain prizes or whatever, based on the quality of your snakes, it's just going to give people more of an opportunity to talk. Also more of an opportunity to win. Because when you, when you look at, for example, you know, the horse industry, you know, I have a friend that he's a trainer, and he just got hired by a very, very wealthy man to train his horses and whatever. And, you know, two horses he just paid, you know, over $300,000 US for, just two horses. And his goal is to win. And it's, it's about ego, you know? So if we can encourage that part of it, it adds another level to the industry.

Have I se, I might be making this up. Have I seen, um, have we seen that on a, on a scale at the shows in Asia? I'm thinking that there have. We okay? I thought so. What's, um, is that, I believe in Thailand? Yeah. I think I think Justin was at a show and they had best of show, whatever. But, you know, it has to be done a certain way, um, in order to do it. And the, these are just my own thoughts. Is you have a room and it has cubicle setup, meaning, you know, it might be a, a 16-inch or 2-foot by 2-foot plexiglass cubicle, and you have to go in with your snake and put it in there and close it up and leave the room. Nobody knows who owns that snake. Sure. Sure. Okay. And people have the judges go in and judge, or whatever. It can also be, you know, uh, fan favorite. But the key is, you can't have shown that snake on the internet or anything anywhere. The first time it makes an appearance is at that show.

I see. I see. So it adds that whole mystery to it, like we're gonna see things that nobody has seen before. Right. Right. So you got to keep it under wraps as much as people want to, you know, be the first out and say, I got this and whatever, you know, saying you're the first to produce a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah morph won't even buy you a coffee. But if you put it in a show and people go around and they judge and they see and they go, I've never seen anything like it, it's going to create conversation. It's also going to create people coming in and just buying snakes that they could potentially just show. Mhm. Right.

Would you, uh, would you have the snakes identified in this, uh, hypothetical scenario?

Yeah, you would have it identified. There would be a number. And it also, you know, I mean, I'm sorry, with the genetics, or with the known genetics, yeah. You would. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? It, it promotes the genetics as well, right? Yeah. I think you, maybe some people might disagree with that, but I think sometimes we overlook sheer wow factor, beauty, and we get caught up in our own egos a little bit of, well, this is a, this, this, this, and this. And, and, you know, um, or, you know, I mean, you were just talking about pastel. Like you say pastel, and people roll their eyes. And I saw one of the most, actually, your name came up the other day. I was at Mark Bailey's place, and he showed me a pastel super gravel clown. I would have laid money it was hypo DG clown. I mean, it was just the cleanest, most beautiful animal. And he says, no, it's just pastel clown, was super gravel. And I was like, I left so inspired. I was like, that's attainable. That's beautiful. That's an amazing animal. You know.

Well, I think, uh, Billy Rice has, uh, desert ghost clown with pastel chocolate, I think it is. It's gorgeous. Absolutely stunning. You, you're not, you know, as much as people kind of, you know, crap all over, uh, pastel, you know, it, it is one of the, you know, founding genes of this industry. And, uh, it, you know, it can't be discounted for that, you know. And it still contributes, you know. I, I look at, you know, making morphs similar to making food, you know, there, if you're going to make Bolognese, which is, for those that don't know, it's an Italian spaghetti sauce with meat, um, you're always going to include tomato. Well, tomatoes are cheap, yeah, but, but it'll be nothing without the tomatoes. Oh, it'd be a pile of meat. Yeah, it'd be terrible, right? Well, it depends on the kind of meat, but. And then you got a steak, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it would, you know, just because it's an inexpensive gene now doesn't mean it's not going to make a huge contribution in something. That's a great way to put it. And I, so I mean, that that was sort of the thought when I asked, would they be identified, or would they just be put out there for the sheer look at beauty, or maybe there's different classes?

Yeah, that that's a good question. Um, I'd be curious to know how they do it over in Thailand. I mean, it's one of those things that, uh, it's open for discussion. But I think that I would be very tempted to go, okay, I've got this snake here. Do I post it today, or do I hold this one for the show? You know? And, you know, it is a lot of fun when you post something and you don't put what the genes are, and people start guessing what it is, and then they're surprised to find out it's, you know, this or that. And, um, you know, maybe the surprise is better, because I think if maybe if you do post the genes, it might muddy the waters a little bit.

Yeah. Well, and, and there is value to that, like, as breeders, we know what goes into making certain number of recessives and how many generations it takes. So, is it, is that the value, or is it the sheer look? You know, I like say, maybe there's different classes, or, you know, best overall, best burrito, I don't know. But, um, that that's what got me going on it, though. That was the thought on that.

Well, you know, I see certain combinations that are coming out and selling for massive amounts of money, and I'm looking at them, and yes, they have some very rare genes in the mix, granted, okay? But I've got snakes, and other people have snakes, that are maybe worth $500 that look better, right? In my opinion. Right. Okay. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So, you know, I think we're focusing too much on what the genes are. You know, if this is an expensive gene, this automatically makes his snake better. But that's not necessarily the case. I find.

Well, and I think it, and you could speak to this far more than I can, but I think it limits the audience, uh, or the potential buying pool when we do that as well, because it's, I like to make the analogy that it, snakes are almost like, or the ball pythons are almost like jokes. If you have to explain it, maybe it's not that cool. Or if, if you have to explain a joke, maybe it's not that funny. I want, I want people to look at it and go, holy smokes, that thing is amazing, then ask what it is. You know?

And, yeah, and I agree. I've always said, you know, if you got to spend 15 minutes telling me why it's so great, it's not that great, right? Right. No, it just isn't. And, uh, and if this industry is going to grow, we have to open ourselves up to new people that have never laid eyes on these snakes. And, and look, in reality, 99.9% of the world's population has not seen what we have, right? Right. We're a very small group that puts out some amazing stuff, right? Yeah. But we have, we have to find a way to reach, you know, a bigger pool of people that go, yeah, you know, it would be kind of cool. Like, I just, uh, got into, uh, some betta fish. I don't know if they're called betta or beta. I don't know.

Neither. But I know what you're talking about. And those get, those get ribbons and have pedigrees and all that as well. Big money stuff too. Yeah.

I, I guess I'm not, I'm not, I'm totally new to it. But I tell you, it's exciting because, and look, I'm not interested in breeding or selling or anything, but they're stunning to look at. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know what, you know, different on S for. I've got a friend that imports directly from Indonesia. He has a facility over there. So they come to his facility. He has a person over there that collects the high-end stuff, and then he imports them into Canada. And I got a few on Saturday, my first bettas, and I'm like, I'm on YouTube, I'm looking up all the different things, how to, you know, aquascape these tanks and everything like that. And I realized, how cool is this to be learning something new? You know? So it's about constantly evolving and not doing the same thing all the time. And like I said, if I end up with a dozen betta tanks, don't be surprised. But I'm not going to turn it into a business because they don't sell for a lot of money. But if you can present the industry in a positive light, and you know, one rack, 10 snakes can create a ton of excitement for somebody that just wants to dabble in it, but do it well, right? I'm not, I'm not talking about dabble in it and, you know, can't buy food or they they're struggling it, you know, for a hobbyist and art collector, this is living art, you know? So if we can reach those people, I would be a good thing.

What if, uh, I know that you weren't at the most, uh, recent Tinley. So I was taken aback. I think in a positive way, uh, although it's double-edged sword sometimes, uh, I was taken aback to see the presence of, uh, such a huge presence from chewy.com, which I don't know if they ship in Canada or not, but it's massive. American Pet Supply and Petco. Um, I'm talking like, I've heard the number 20 million unique users to their website each month. And when you talk about reaching new people, that excites me. When there's a Chewy that comes into the room. The flip side of that, though, is I'm scared of an Amazon model happening where the small shops and the small mom, you know, the, you know, um, I play music. What happened to independent guitar shops 20 years ago when Guitar Center came around? They just, or, you know, Main Street, mama and pop shops when Walmart came around. So what's your thoughts on somebody like Chewy being interested in the, in the reptile industry?

Well, I, I don't think, you know, unless they're planning on breeding themselves, there's just so many directions we can go in with mutations to create, you know, new and unique beautiful mutations. So there have been big, big mega breeders in the United States, reptile industries, I think down in Florida, if I'm not mistaken, Brand Bill Brandt, had had a huge facility, you know, doing lots of stuff. You know, we produce living art, and we're not all on the same highway, thank God, right?

That's true. That's true. Right. So we're all doing things a little bit differently. You know, I, I do things a certain way. I see Will Marose from Royal Canadian is in here. He does, he's he's on a different, you know, uh, road than I am, which is great, you know. And sometimes we cross over and we, you know, grab each other's, uh, you know, different snakes from each other, whatever. But, you know, it, it's, I've always said, you know, choose a lane, you know, what, what lane do you want to go down? And better yet, choose a different route because you might be all by yourself on that route, but, you know, the view is pretty damn good from there. And then when you finally, you know, get to your destination, people are going to recognize and they're going to say, what do you see? What, you know, what was along there? Cuz all I saw was traffic and construction, you know? So try to avoid, you know, those routes and, and become known for something, right? That is uniquely you.

So let me ask you on, and Mark, I'm gonna put you back to regular size. I realized I have, uh, uh, great partners that I'm neglecting behind the, uh, the logos there. Go, go. So, and I'm weird. I like things a certain way. I like feeling like I'm looking, I'm engaging you. If I look that way, and I rest on the S, anyway. So you're known, you mentioned, uh, Java, Scrambler, MJ, axanthic. Um, and so you just talked about sort of picking your, picking your path and your, and your lane and your highway. I'm sure there were others that you picked that you're not known for, or that had amazing results that you had a good, good run with that maybe your name doesn't isn't synonymous with. Um, how did you, how do you pick what to choose? And then, actually, I think you've got some things that you're working on for the future, and I'd like to talk about how you landed on what, what excites you right now.

Well, what excites me is what I like, what I visually see that excites me. It, it's, it's, it's a lot like people, you know, men and women are attracted to different things and different looks and different sizes and different everything, you know, different hair color, different eye color, different stuff like that. And it's a very necessary thing. So I remember, you know, very, very early in this, seeing, you know, my first desert ghost for the first time. I believe NERD had a picture of it, and I thought it was amazing. Um, you know, I just, uh, always gravitate to what I like. And, and, you know, Oz has been a big influence in my life, even though we got into it exactly at the same time, you know, he has a vision for color and, you know, different combinations. There are certain genes that, you know, I feel are being, um, I don't want to say neglected, but they're hard to find. And, so, you know, what I'll do sometimes is, if I'm looking for a certain combination, I'll go in the MorphMarket and type it in, and I mean, it always comes up, no results, no results. Well, that's a good sign right there, as opposed to there being, you know, 10,000 of them. Right. Right. Right. And it's, it's very basic stuff. So, I mean, if I look at some of the genes I'm really, really, uh, excited about, I, I love Cyprus. I think what Cyprus does to clown and the color, and it works well with Orange Dream. And I'm huge in Orange Dream. I was one of the first ones to really embrace the Orange Dream project. Um, but, you know, uh, yeah, Reptile Marking, Kim Gour, Rodents is built, both in Florida. Yeah, exactly. Thanks, Dale. So, you know, it, it, um, I, I still think beauty will overtake genes. I, I think, you know, if it's an inexpensive snake, but it's beautiful, there will always be somebody that wants to buy, especially once we get into further into the, I'm just keeping snakes that are beautiful. I don't care what the genes are. I just want good-looking stuff. Right. Right. And, and part of the problem with this industry has been that, you know, we have great-looking stuff as babies, but when they get older, they're not that great looking. That's true. You know, I mean, that's pretty universal, but, you know, we do sell things, you know, with color, and, and it would be nice if that color, uh, stayed intact, uh, for a longer period of time. I feel like that's like the mission now. Like that secrets out. Like that's the, it's, it's either is, or I wouldn't say it's well-known. We all know that there's, there's buyers that go, you know, what happened? You're like, well, that's what happens. But again, to go back to that snake I saw with, uh, from, um, Mark Bailey the other day, that was an adult breeder female. Like that, that, that was part of why I found it just so inspiring. I was like, holy cow, there's an answer to this question of how do we make these amazing as adults? And I like, that's been, that's been an inspiring question for me for much longer than the past few days, but it was neat to see that and go, oh, there's an answer. You know.

Well, Mark, Mark is a great friend of mine, and he's one of my favorite humans on this planet. I mean, he is, uh, very special. And he, you know, he's extremely humble, but he has some of the greatest stuff out there. I mean, and you, you know, he's just not out there posting it as much, but I've never been to his place, but you have, and I'm sure you can attest to the fact that there's a few, quite a few drawers that you open up and you're like, what? Like, seriously? Yeah, every drawer, it was just like, what, what's behind this curtain? You know? And, um, and you nailed it. Most importantly, I mean, he, he was just incredibly welcoming. I think we had coffee for an hour and 20 minutes before we ever looked at a snake, you know? It's just one of those kind of moments. And, yeah, it was, it was great to do business with him, but it was much better just to get to meet him and hang out. I, I'd never met him before, never spoken to him before that.

Well, see, if you come here, Adam, I, I'll, uh, I'll make you lunch. I'm famous for people sitting down and I make them lunch. And Shane told me that. Shane attested to that fact. Yeah, yeah. That's the only reason he's coming back to Canada, apparently. You know, where, uh, I know I'm a, I'll leave geopolitics alone. Where in Canada are you located? I, I assume in Ontario from, uh, Shane's trip. Where in Ontario are you at?

Well, we're just, uh, about an hour and 15, 15 minutes Northeast of Toronto. Okay. All right. So Toronto is the largest city. We are just northeast of Buffalo. We're across the way from, of the lake, yep, from Buffalo.

And what's the name of the town or the township you're in?

Uh, we're, we are in Peterborough County. Okay. All right.

You'll be, I may be happy. I don't know. Maybe it's the, maybe it's the bad part of town. My mother was born in Galt, so, you know, I have some, yeah, very strong ties there. And I spent a lot of time, uh, in New Brunswick growing up. So, but I haven't spent a whole lot of, I've only been to Toronto once, and I, I think that's, I think I've been to Ontario, but only like the Niagara Falls region, like the total tourist thing. Otherwise, um, I think just the one trip to Toronto that I've ever been.

Toronto is a great city. Amazing city. It's massive. I just remember it just being, it's the only other city that's ever reminded me of New York City. Now, that was through like an 11-year-old's eyes, but it was, I remember just being massive. And you were there last when, oh my gosh, 1991. Okay, well, it's changed. It's, it is condominiums everywhere, like big tall building condos all along the lakefront. It's quite pretty because the architecture is very, very unique. And, you know, it's funny because my wife and I are world travelers. I know that sounds pretentious, but she's a travel agent, and we get to travel around the world and we see a lot of places, but we never really look at Toronto as being, hey, we should go down there and pretend to be tourists, you know? Yeah. And, and this summer, we did that one day. We went down and did that, and it was, it was just fantastic. It was lovely.

What was your, I do agree, we take for granted what's right in front of us, right? We feel like we feel like we have to go. I had an experience during COVID like that, where my, my wife rented a, or she rented a like an Airbnb in the same town across the lake from us. She's like, she's like, I just want to get out of this house. And I feel like that's a safe place to go. And, you know, anyway. What was your, what was your, like, memorable enjoyment of of Toronto that weekend as a, as a tourist versus a resident or new?

We went to, uh, the St. Lawrence Market. I'm a big fan of markets. I love outdoor markets and indoor markets, whatever. Every city we go to, I, I try to find the markets, you know, to go to, and they're easy to find. And we've been to some of the most amazing markets in the world. Well, the St. Lawrence Market is a very old market, and it was voted, uh, by National Geographic magazine as the greatest indoor market in the world several years ago. Uh, so we went there, and there's just food everywhere, and meat and fish, and you can buy, you know, food to take home and cook, plus you can buy food that's being cooked there and so on. And it was great.

Does it, so does it feel international there, or is this absolutely? I didn't know if it was like a uniquely Canadian experience or,

It's a very metropolitan, cosmopolitan experience, absolutely. And we, we bought like, um, uh, Portuguese, uh, egg tarts. I don't know if you've ever had those.

No, I've had octopus as, uh, Shane. About Shane, Stephen. We, I bought a lot of these tarts. Oh, actually, they bought them and they brought them to me, to the CRB. I said, hey, if you're going to, because I said to them, go to the St. Lawrence Market. Then I sent him to a friend's restaurant right on the harbor front, right overlooking the water, okay? And, and, and they were like, whined and dined there. And I said, bring some of these tarts, uh, with you. And they brought them to CRB, and I said, thanks so much. And I opened the box. I said, did you guys not have one? And they went, well, no, we bought them for you. And I said, well, here, try one of these. Okay. The look on their faces when they bit into these tarts was unbelievable. They had never tasted anything like that. They're unbelievable. People who have ever had the Portuguese tarts will absolutely, uh, agree with me.

And are these like sweet dessert tarts, or these savory?

Like, they're actually made from, uh, a phyllo dough with egg yolk custard in the middle of them. And they're small, and, and the outer edge is all buttery and crispy. They're delightful.

Excellent. Anyway, Steven's like, we're never going to be able to get this in in the United States. This is not good. This is not good. He was like, he said, what are we gonna do? And it was, yeah, it was great seeing your reaction. And, you know, food will do that to you, right? Different cultured foods and stuff like that. But it, the, the joy that food brings, I mean, that was my, that was my career. That's what people used to ask me, why do you do this? And I said, it's the smiles and the memories. And, oh, if I think of like, my favorite conversations, they've generally been over food. Special family memories, always food. And then, you know, similar with wine, but then the story and the, the, the history of wine and all of that. So, um, yeah, I, I get it. I get that stuff. And I get that amazement. And you can learn just so much from a culture just by their food, or interacting with the person that's making the food for you. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.

Good food. I mean, there's, and there's so much of it, you know, if you know how to find, and it doesn't have to be in a fancy restaurant, or it doesn't have to be expensive. It can be on the side of the road. You know, we've had some of our best meals, you know, in little side of the road vendors. And, you know, it's just, it's phenomenal. I want to go to Bangkok simply, well, my friend is a very close friend, is from Bangkok, but purely, purely for the street food, and just all hours of just, I just want to like, have a 24 hours in Bangkok just eating. There's no sleep, just go eat and find everything I can from the street vendors.

Well, we're going there in, uh, November. Oh, have you been before, or not? Yeah, twice. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So we're going to Bangkok. My wife's going ahead of time, and she's doing a cruise, a riverboat cruise down the Mekong, uh, through Vietnam into, uh, Cambodia. Mhm. And I'm meeting them in, in Cambodia, because I don't want to take the full time to do. I've done the river cruise, and it's very good, but been there, done that. And, uh, so we're meeting in Cambodia at Siem Reap, and we're going to do the Angkor Wat, which I've been there twice before already, but I love Cambodia. Great street food as well. Um, and then from there, we're going to Bangkok, and we're going to do, I think three days in Bangkok, and we're taking a, I think 24 people with us. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So we're doing the whole, uh, street food thing, the whole temple thing, whatever. And then from there, we're going to a place called, uh, Krabi, where the, uh, I believe it's the Hong Islands. If you've been watching White Lotus, the recent White Lotus, that's where it's shot, and it's spectacular. And it's, you know, beach and islands, and it's very tropical. But, you know, we've had food there where, you know, it'll be a family on a scooter, and they've got their wok and a burner, and, you know, they're cooking in this thing, and they've got their kids there, and, you know, they'll hand it to us in a bowl, and we'll just sit on a little plastic bench and eat this, and it'll be the best thing we've ever eaten, you know? It's so like the flavor and freshness and all that is, it's absolutely incredible. You, you will love Bangkok. Love.

I'm sure the experience adds to it too. Like it wouldn't.

Absolutely. It almost, it almost wouldn't fit to have white linen and polished china silver, right? That wouldn't make any sense to have that with that. That's not my kind of restaurant. I don't, I'm, I'm, you know, the school of Anthony Bourdain. Give me a plastic stool, yes, half half the size it should be, and, you know, some spicy noodles, or I'm good. Yeah, I'm good.

I'm gonna make it a goal one day. We're, I want to have a meal with you, whether it's here, whether it's there, whether it's in Bangkok, I don't care. That's it. It's now on my list. That's what now.

Were you a cook? Were you a chef?

No, so I started my career, believe it or not, at a, like a box store, uh, Ruby Tuesday casual dining here in America. And, uh, I was there for 10 years, and then, um, I left there. I got pretty disillusioned, which actually was a really good benefit. And I said, I'm out of here. I was 26 at the time.

I'd gone from dishwasher to general manager, and then, I was gonna say by luck, but by networks, relationships, friends. Um, somebody said, "Hey, I interned for the vice president of food and beverage at the PGA Tour. Um, you should meet this person." I said, "Yeah, that sounds pretty damn good. Let me go meet this person." And I actually, uh, through a series of, you know, again, fortunate events, but also probably presenting myself well, I actually got the, uh, the restaurant in, uh, the flagship of the PGA Tour, TPC Sawgrass, right where the PLAYERS Championship was, uh, while we were at Tinley. And I opened that new building, and I was there for six years, and I did seven PGA Tour tournaments there. W- um, fed presidents, all that kind of stuff. But I was on the, I was on the, uh, the business, the, the hospitality end of it. I can get around the kitchen, don't get me wrong. Like, I wear this coat for a reason, like I love, uh, but it's such a sign of respect and a mental setting that that I put myself into. Um, and then I, I, I realized at the PGA Tour that that either to separate myself, I was either going to have to become an ace wedding planner, which wasn't that exciting to me. I could put on a wedding, but that's not what I want to do. But at that time, the PJ Tour had zero sommelier. So I sat down the path of, uh...

"Oh, good for you."

...the Court of Master Sommelier. I got through level two certified, and, um, that was a real differentiating factor in my career, um, both the business side of it and and the the SM side. So that was that, uh, up until four years ago, and I, um, I had, you know, the lifestyle is tough, being a husband and a father, and, um, I woke up.

"Tough business."

Yeah, yeah. My son was nine one day, and I said, "That's like halfway to him moving out." And I, I don't want to explain on Christmas, said, "I got to get off to the big event," or, "I can't go dancing with my wife because I got to work the New Year's Eve event." You know, time to move on. So, yeah.

"Can I ask a favor? I gotta go get a bottle of water. Can I do that?"

G- some commercials, right? I'm gonna pay some bills, and then I got, I have more questions than I started with for you, so I'm ready.

"Okay, sounds good. Thanks, Mark. Guys, check out, uh, Redline Shipping. You guys know that I ship with Redline Shipping. I choose Redline for, uh, their service to the industry, their service to their customers, the accessibility. Temperatures are changing. We're coming out of winter, we're coming into warmer temperatures, uh, here in Minnesota. It might be a high of 40 tomorrow, but in Florida, where a customer might be receiving a snake, could be in the 80s tomorrow. Uh, what's a shipper to do responsibly? I'm literally, I'm going to call Redline in the morning and say, 'Here's where I'm at, here's where I'm shipping to.' That's just one example. Uh, check out RedlineShipping.com. Use the promo code Proper Five for five bucks off of your next shipping label. Uh, Charlie at ShedTests.com. I talked to Charlie this week, and he's got three new tests coming out. Uh, two that everybody's been clamoring for. He, he swarmed me to silence, but I promise you those are on the way. So, uh, keep an eye out for those. In the meantime, there's currently, uh, over 40, uh, current genes available for testing. Uh, Amelanistic, Wookie, Sunset, Clown, Puzzle, Ultramel, Zebra, all the Yellowbelly complex. Uh, go check out ShedTests.com. Use a promo code Proper 15, and you'll get 15% off of a full order of Shed Tests. You can order as many individual tests as you want within that. And to top it all off, he recently, within the last month, he dropped all of his prices, 20%. So individual Shed Test now is $40. Second gene test on the same animal is $20. So, uh, lots of opportunity there, and the 15% does still apply to those new prices. I don't know how long that'll last, but go check that out. Um, next is Reagan Renee, Royal Pythons. That is the, uh, current defending undefeated, uh, 15 Minutes of Lame Champion. You know him from Chan Fatman contest, um, but there's heck of a lot more to him than that. Charlie is working on Krypton, Desert Ghost, G-stripe, Candy, Pied, Clowns, single, double, and triple recessive, ingredient, as well as some visuals, I think he started producing as well. So check him out there. Uh, Danny and Rene Rocha, that is Portuguese Pythons out in Chino, California. Um, I love their Ultramel stuff. All of my Ultramel, pod, excuse me, all my Ultramel pod ingredients are from them, and they mix in these great, great dark codoms, het rantic, um, blackhead. I've got a super blackhead Ultramel. I've got a blackhead, het rantic, het Ultramel female. So, uh, very high-quality stuff. They are doing stuff in Sunset, they're doing stuff with Clown, with Zebra. Go check out their MorphMarket. Their hatchling season tends to come around November and December, so they've actually just got fresh offerings on their MorphMarket. Check that out. Trevor at Ball Labs, that is, uh, Trevor in Aurora, Colorado. You know, Mark says to keep things focused. Trevor likes to work with any and everything that he can get his hands on. I've got the list here, but one thing I like about Trevor is he likes, uh, looking at genes that maybe have been forgotten or got passed over or got blown off in the past, and have just been patiently waiting for, uh, something cool to be done with. So he does like to work, uh, things like that, but he's also working, uh, Puzzle, Ultramel, Clown, VPI, Anteic, Trist Stripe, Monsoon, Zebra, and, uh, Sunset as well. He's also a licensed rodent breeder in Colorado. Um, technically, to breed and sell rodents in Colorado, you have to be inspected and licensed, and Trevor's one of like less than 10 people that's done that. And I like the idea that things don't happen in a vacuum. If he cares that much to do it the right way on rodents, I guarantee it that way. He's also got a new podcast called Breeder Underground. That is Trevor at Ball Labs. Last but not least is Chris at BNS Reptilia, the original, uh, advertising partner of Proper Royals. He's also who I vend, uh, Tinley with, and we've made some animal investments together. Chris is, uh, the name of his company is BNS Reptilia because he focuses not only on ball pythons, but blood pythons, uh, locality boas, cers of all shapes and sizes, pituus, the bull and the pin snakes, and he is knowledgeable on those species. He'll make sure that you have the right permits, that it's legal where you're at, any questions you have on, uh, husbandry and care, and he's also the regional distributor for the Chipper in Pennsylvania. If you are interested in doing business as a distributor for the Chipper, also get in touch with Chris. Last but not least, audience, thank you for being here. Otherwise, like, nobody gets to see these really cool conversations that I get to be a part of and learn from, and all of that. So thank you all so much for your support. I appreciate you being here. Uh, tonight, we've got Mark Mandic from Marcus Gene. I don't think he needs any introduction, but if you're not familiar, go check out his website. Uh, from day one, that was one of the things that I stumbled on in this industry, and, uh, I'm regret that that, you know, we're about two-thirds of the way through the show, which just means there's going to have to be subsequent episodes with Mark down the line. But, um, Mark, thanks for, uh, thanks for being here. Uh, really, really big question. What the hell motivates you? Why get out? Why get out of bed with these snakes anymore in the morning? Like, you, you've done so much, you have all this other interesting life, uh, that we've talked about from from markets to travel, just the background, intriguing person. What motivates you to keep going and not like just like dabbling, not screwing around, like top-notch, keep going?

Well, um, I realized a while ago that if you're going to have a, a great life, a happy life, you always have to put something in your path that you look forward to. And nothing does that more, business-wise, uh, than this industry because, you know, you're always doing new pairings, and when you do it, and you realize you're going to get eggs, your imagination goes wild, and you're constantly thinking about that. And then you finally, you know, the eggs come, and then you're, you've got, okay, I've got this shot at doing this. And then they hatch, you know, their heads stick out, and you know, it's always, every morning, it's, it's, it's a ritual, you know, especially during, uh, you know, the laying season, you go out, you're looking for eggs, you get those eggs, you put the eggs away, and, and then you're waiting for them to hatch. And, and it's always something that's interesting that is happening. It's not, you know, there are some jobs, and I mean, let's, let's face it. Um, I have a friend, he's an executive chef at a really nice restaurant in Toronto. That's where Stephen and, and, uh, Shane went, and he loves coming here, uh, to cook, to for me to cook for him because he cooks the same thing every day, right? Every day. He can't, he doesn't stray from the menu. Occasionally, they might change this, or they might change that, but it's the same thing. Dan, how boring a life does that become, right? If you're not injected with creativity throughout your journey? Imagine, you know, going on a scenic route, but all it is is flat, and there's nothing to see. There's just, you know, whereas we have peaks and valleys and mountains and rivers and waterfalls, and our whole industry is built on waiting for this, you know, some amazing stuff to to come out of the egg. So that's what keeps me going. And it also what keeps me going is I'm always learning new things, new ways to do things, new procedures, new, you know, to be more organized and so on. And, um, that's exciting. And, you know, we mentioned earlier that, you know, I got a few beta fish, and I realize today as I'm doing research in aquariums and, you know, the aquascaping and the different fish and that this is all new to me, and that's what's exciting. I, I'm 68 years old, and I'm discovering something new that's getting me excited. And, you know, if, if you keep learning and you keep doing things like that, you live a quality life. And, you know, I have to, you know, be aware of my age, and, you know, I've got to be more careful with, you know, certain. I don't climb ladders anymore. Well, I did, I did today, I climbed a ladder, but, you know, you have to be extra careful that you don't get hurt. So, you know, I get what drives me is this industry, and my success in it allows me to do things, you know, in life like travel, like buy some cool other things, buy really good food and cook it and prepare it the way I want it to be prepared and cook for people. I mean, there's just so much, you know, to look forward to that a lot of people just don't, they they don't have. You know, they're stuck in a job. And, and, you know, as much as, you know, this industry, uh, has a lot of great people in it, um, I'm not really a people person, meaning I'm happy to be by myself doing doing whatever. But I also enjoy, you know, going to Tinley and and meeting so many amazing, wonderful people, you know, um, and that, and this industry allows me to do that. I go to horse shows still, you know, because I used to compete and I know all the guys that are showing or whatever, and I just go to hang out, to be part of that tribe, you know? And that's what we are. We, we've become a very tribal, uh, society.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you know, in a good way and in a bad way. Yeah, there's, there's the definite two sides of the coin. The stronger that gets.

Yeah.

Um, what's, um, is there anything that you tie that curiosity back to? Is there, is there, was there something that happened in your life or a moment that made, that gave you this like, aha spark that like kicked you in the ass or something that made you go, I want it all, I got to learn it all, see it all, know it, like seek it all? I don't know. Was there anything like that for you?

You know, I, I'd like to say that there was, but I don't really remember anything. I mean, I do remember always, um, gravitating towards animals, uh, as a child. Growing up in Australia, there was a man that lived across the road, and we called him the Captain or something, and he, his whole backyard was full of animals, you know, and it was always amazing to go and see those, uh, animals. And, you know, I remember I was at a, uh, circus and I was petting a pony, and it was a Shetland pony, and that pony reached down and grabbed me by the leg and bit me really bad, and picked me up and kind of threw me. And the first thing I said the next day when I woke up is, "Can we go see the pony again?" You know? And so I was very different within my family. My family was very much, "Get a job, do this, and do it for the rest of your life." And I was like, "Now, I kind of want to try different things." And I have. I mean, I've, you know, I ran a professional bass fishing tour for 10 years. It was the biggest tour in Canada. Paid out literally millions of dollars over the 10 years. I, you know, I was in the publishing industry, uh, working in sales, and I was a sales manager there. I, I mean, I've done so many things because I like to taste it and I like to learn new things. That's that's the thing. And none of, every industry I got into that I did extremely well in, I knew nothing about. I just thought, I just thought it was interesting.

Yeah.

And, you know, the difference between me and the people that knew everything about that industry was, you know, a dry sponge takes in more water, right? Okay. And I was that eager to learn and so enthusiastic that people hired me. I, you know, I, I don't, to this day, I look back and I go, "What the hell were they thinking?" Because, but, you know, I became good at what I did, but I knew nothing.

I think people hire. I think they hire people over skills. I mean, I mean, there's certain things you can't do. You can't, you can't go sending rockets to the moon because you think it's neat. This is not going to happen. But that's in my restaurant career, I would always take a person that was eager and that I believed wanted to learn, and they'd be good associates, a good teammate, coachable, a reliable, uh, you know, clay to mold. They...

Oh, they're the best. They're, they're...

Absolutely. And talking, you know, to my buddy who works at the restaurant in Toronto, he, he says the same thing when it comes to hiring people. You know, you, you hire somebody that's got, you know, 20 years experience, where you sometimes you're hiring 20 years of problems.

Yeah, yeah.

And all, and, and bad habits, and old bad habits.

You know, die young.

Um, I mean, I remember, I keep on going back to the horse industry because I've been involved in so many different levels. But I remember, uh, being at a racetrack, and, uh, some, I, I had bought a horse that used to be a racehorse, so I wanted to find out more about its history, and it led me to a certain farm, and I got to know the people there really well. And they were going to the races, and I said, "Oh, I'd love to go to the races." And these were quarter horse races, not thoroughbred racing. And, uh, I'd go every Sunday. They'd race every Sunday. And I eventually started riding racehorses, not to race them, but to exercise them. I was a skinny little runt when I was a teenager, okay, and into my 20s. I mean, um, but anyway, I, I, uh, I eventually broke my leg on a horse, on the racetrack. I was exercising it, and actually broke it out of the gates, and it ended up breaking me. And I'm sitting on the sidelines in my cast on, you know, I can't ride anymore, I can't even, you know, head the horses. And I was the guy that would take him into the gate and sit in the gate holding straight and whatever. And, uh, there was a track announcer, his name was Albert Greco. He's this old Italian, and he was a wonderful character of a man. And he would call the, he was a racetrack announcer, you know, they're at the post, they're off, and you started calling these horses. Oh, yeah. Well, I got a little bored, and I hobbled on up to the tower in my crutches, in my, in my, you know, cast on my leg, and, uh, I said, "Do you mind if I want you call a race?" He says, "No, no, that's great." And so he started calling this race, and I'm looking at him, and I'm looking at the race, and I'm looking at him, and he's not even looking at the horses. He's just calling names. He's just reading from the program, right? He's not even looking. And I'm like, "How did you do that?" And he says, "Kid," he says, "they don't listen to you anyways. They're too busy screaming their heads off wanting their horse to win. You just call, call out the names." I said, "Oh," I said, "do you mind if I try it? I said, I'd like to give it a go." I mean, the [ __ ] I ask of people, have you ever called a race before? No. Have you ever made a video before? Including this one yet? One, you know? So, so I'm like, yeah, I'd like to try this. So, you know, he's holding a microphone, so I'm thinking I need to free my hands up so I can use binoculars and actually look at the horses racing around the track. So I went and I got an old coat hanger and I put it around my neck, and I bent the thing, and I put the, you know, mic in here, and I lifted it, and I was, you know, tests. Okay, this is good. Got the binoculars, and I got the program out, and I'm looking, and, you know, they're at the post, they're off, blah, blah, blah. I call this race and nailed it. And I turned around and I said, "How was that?" And he was walking down the stairs, and he goes, "The job's yours, kid." And he never, he never came back.

What? He never came back?

I called races there for the next 10 years.

Oh, get out of here, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was cool. It was so much fun to do because I love, I love horses. I called, um, races in the United States. I used to go down to Oklahoma and call big races down there. We had, uh, one of the properties that I worked for in North Carolina, a lot of the members in North Carolina, that was their summer home from Ocala, Florida, which was a big country. Yeah, big country. And, uh, yeah, they, they all had their cars and everything, or what, in mansions, or whatever, but it was their horses that they were, that they were, uh, you know, that was their thing most proud of, for sure.

Um, what, you talked about the past in that room. What do you got in the future cooking in that room? I, I, I mean, I was going to say, I guess you had a, you must have had a purpose behind it, but maybe you just did it because you liked it. But what do you got going on in there?

Well, again, it's a, you know, it's a creative outlet for me. To, I, I mean, I envisioned this thing in my head, what I was going to do. I mean, I tried to copy yours, Adam. Yeah, but I thought I would do something different. And so I had this envisioned in my head, but it's not just that I, you know, want to do, uh, snake, uh, podcasts and, and like this. I also do want to interview some of my closest friends, like Mark Bailey, uh, you know, Justin Kobylka. I'm dropping names now, but, you know what I mean? I want to talk, but I don't, I don't want to talk about snakes as much as I want to talk about their lives. Because we all know what they do, we all know what temperatures they keep, you know, snakes at, and whatever. And we'll dabble in that, but I think it's really important. Uh, one thing I recognized a long time ago is that everybody has a story. Yeah. You know? And, uh, so I, I want to delve deep into those stories. And, you know, it's not going to be a, you know, Tuesday night at 8:00. It's, it's when I bloody well feel like doing it.

There you go.

You know, I'm gonna do it. And, uh, but it's also gonna become a studio for, uh, other things. Uh, I've encountered a lot of really amazing people in my life, and I want to interview those people, uh, about their lives, and the fact that they're, they keep going, they're not, they're not stopping. I mean, I, I've got a friend, uh, he was my best friend, Cowboy, you know, friend growing up when I was in, you know, in my, as a teenager in early 20s, and then he moved to Texas, but he, he has reinvented himself so many times. And now, at the age of 68, he's the number one rodeo act in the United States as far as an act goes during, you know, yeah.

Is it with the with the horses or does he have like?

It's horses. It's all wild mustangs. He trains these wild mustangs to do incredible. His name is Bobby Kerr, okay? If anybody wants to look him up, he's absolutely astounding. And, you know, he's been struggling with cancer the last few years. He's had cancer, he's got in remission, he's had cancer, he's gone in remission. And I, I talked to him about a month ago. I said, "Bobby, what's going on? I said, you know, when are you going to kind of step back and look after yourself?" And he said, "Mark, he said, I got shows to do. I can't die. Yeah. I'm too busy, right? I got shows to do." And, you know, there's a lot of truth in that. If you've got, you know, something, a purpose, right? Keep going. You, you live a long, great life, you know? It's, it's finding that purpose. And it can be, you know, very simple things. It doesn't have to be complicated or expensive or anything like that. You know? So it's something that struck me a long time ago was when the, in my mind, the thought of when people mentally retire. I remember it even at 35 in my career. Um, I looked around and I was like, these guys, they think they know everything. They don't want to learn anything. They don't want to change. They don't want to understand. You know, in the restaurants, everybody that works there is like, not everybody, but they're like 18 to 24 year olds. You figure them out, and then you get a new 18-year-old to replace a 24-year-old, and they're completely different because a new generation has come through or whatever. And it struck me, just honestly, just the easy leg up you could have just by staying curious and staying, uh, having an open mind about things. But then there's the other end of life where, yeah, I don't, I never wanted to work forever or for somebody else forever, but I also don't see myself like just sitting on a couch for all my days watching Perry Mason or something. What, what the hell is that? You know? So I, I don't know how it's all gonna shake out.

I muted myself. Perry Mason? Wow, you really dated yourself there. Are you talking about the remake or the original?

Well, I'm talking about the original, but I'm also talking about people that I've seen. I mean, that's literally what they do, you know? You know, yeah. I listened to a podcast the other day with Kenji. Do you know Kenji? He's a chef.

No, I don't.

He, he's a great chef, and he's written many books about, uh, the science of cooking. He, he delves into the science, whatever. Yep. Um, I believe he's from Seattle, I'm gonna say, uh, or San Francisco area. He's on, he's on the West Coast, anyway. But he was interviewed on a podcast, and it was about depression and addiction, and he had gone into a rehab facility to get over his addictions, but he was describing the restaurant industry and how it's like, you work till late, then everybody gets together for drinks, or everybody's smoking, and everybody's doing this, and then the next day, you do the same thing. And then, you know, they're constantly sending you booze to the restaurant to try and this, you know, everybody's. And it's, I mean, look at Anthony Bourdain. I mean, look, you know, I mean, I wrestled.

Sorry, go ahead.

I wrestled a lot with that, and that was, um, I always took pride that that in the kitchens and the restaurants that I ran, that what you do to yourself, you got to be able to handle. And that stuff, you can't do at the restaurant. There's, there's, there's a time for professionalism, and there's a time for play.

Yeah.

But the fact is, it's, it's a constant struggle because you have this, just like you described, you have a completely different schedule. You're hyped up and getting off of work, and these are like almost like athletic endeavors, like you feel like you won a big game after a great service, right? So you're going out to celebrate, and you're going out to party, and you're getting excited to do it again tomorrow. But all the, all the normal people, they're going to bed, they're done. So, so your only friends are the people on this schedule. And then, by God, one of you has to work the, the 9 or 10 AM shift in the morning. Well, you're gonna need something to wake up after the three hours of sleep after the behavior that you just had.

Absolutely.

And, and that stuff just, just, it just goes. And I, I was lucky. I, I missed most of that for myself, as far as the hard stuff, but I lived that for a long time. And, um, um, thank God, you know, my, my, my wife and son are, are, I never gave them a reason not to be here, other than I was just a workaholic. But, but thank God that that they saw the benefit of me doing that. But I also, I was like, you know what? I'm, I'm just missing out on life, just staring down this tunnel of restaurants. And, and, uh, and I miss, I admit, I miss the camaraderie. I miss working here in this room, largely alone, drives me absolutely insane sometimes. There's times where I'm just like, I just got to go be around people. Let me go find some people.

You know?

Well, just call me. Pick up the phone and call me.

I will. I'm working alone 90% of the time.

Yeah, you know? And, uh, you know, if I'm, I'll either be listening, do a podcast, or I'll listen to some music. Um, but, you know, I can only talk about snakes so much, to be honest.

Exactly.

I like talking about other things as well. Uh, but, you know, life is interesting, and there's a lot of interesting things to talk about. So, hey, can I show you some snakes?

I was just about to say, you know what? Let's bring this all back to what everybody, uh, came for, or what, what the platform is. As much as I love going down all the rabbit holes, especially with, with just life well-lived type people, um, but yeah, what do you got cooking? What's exciting? I'm gonna put you back on the big screen.

Okay.

Um, and, uh, I, I mean, this is this is gold for the audience. What excites Mark Mandic these days? And I'll, I'll let you take it from here.

Well, I, you know, I've done a few podcasts, uh, regarding the Scrambler gene that really, really, uh, floats my boat. But there's a gene I'm working with. Uh, I, I'm not the founder of the gene. Kevin from NERD had the original male. I believe he produced one clutch, of which he sold one male, uh, to a friend of mine, and he paid a lot of money for this snake, and the gene was the Jag gene, Jaguar. And, and I'm not sure what happened. I actually asked Kevin at the Tinley last October, "What happened to the Jag?" And he says, "Ah, you know, life gets like, I don't know." You know, basically, he didn't know. Well, I ended up buying the project, uh, from, uh, this friend of mine because he was getting out of the industry, and he had another very, very successful career in, uh, car racing. And, uh, so he sold me the project, and I was just kind of sitting on it a little bit. And then I had Michael Graham, uh, from Blackheart Exotics, pop into my place once, and I was just showing some snakes, and I said, "Yeah, there's a new gene, you know, it's called the Jag gene." And he says, "Are you have any for sale?" And I said, "Yeah, I'd probably, you know, sell this one." And he says, "All right, what do you want for it?" And I gave him a price. He says, "All right, I'll take it." So I sold it to him, and he ran with it. And what I didn't realize at the time was I had another male that I was using that was a combo male that I thought was, you know, the Jag combo, and it ended up that it wasn't a Jag. It was one of the snakes I bought from this guy, and he said, "This is a Jag, blah, blah." Uh, so I had to start from scratch. I, I still, I still had the original, uh, Jag male that he had bought, but it was just straight single gene Jag. So I thought, you know, everybody's been listening to me blab on about scramblers. I thought I would highlight some Jag stuff tonight, if that's all right.

No, that'd be real cool. And give us some of the technical stuff. Is it, it's a codom? Am I correct?

It is, uh, an incomplete dominant.

It is? Okay. So there's super form as well?

Yes, yeah, yeah. So I dropped codom as the term to incomplete dominant. Uh, I still use the super, but technically it's like switching from Ghost to hypo. Hypo is more, uh, accurate.

Sure.

So when I say incomplete dominant, it means co-dominant to a lot of people, right?

Um, so yeah. So what I thought I would do is I'm gonna show you a base gene first, okay? I watch. Hopefully this works.

Look at you.

Okay. So this is just a base Jag, and it's actually got color to it, and you can see the blushing in the saddles.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. And it's pretty, I don't know, uneventful, but you can see there's something there. And, you know, Kevin was great at being able to see that there was something there always. And, um, this is, you know, just a very standard Jag. Now, next to it, we've added one more gene, and this is a Jag fire.

Okay.

Yep.

Okay.

Okay. So you can see, wh- hold on. I just go do something here. This, uh, program for my M50, it does this occasionally. It'll be back in a second here. Boom, there it is. So this is the fire, and you can see we're starting to see banding, right?

Okay.

And, uh, it, again, it's just another element of, uh, shine, like a gold to it.

Yeah.

Okay. So I'm gonna put these two away. I just let them loose on the floor here, and then I collect them up later. And this, so this is a Jag yellow belly. And again, you know, it's, it's okay, but it's not mind-boggling. It does have that same shimmer to it.

I'm glad you pointed that out at the start. It does have that.

Yeah, it is definitely because, you know, bellys have a tendency to be quite dark, I find. You know, I'm gonna make sure this guy doesn't bite me. They are vicious. I mean, they live up to their name of.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you can see the, you know, belly.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, so then we have a super Jag. And his just super Jag.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

There's, uh, that'll, no other, no other mutation. There's no orange dream, there's no nothing in there. That'll get some butts in the seats, right?

There. Nice.

Yeah.

Um, and then this is a super Jag butter leopard pastel.

Okay.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm looking, I mean, I'm just trying to think how to even describe that. That's pretty neat. That's the butter and the leopard doing that. But, you know, it's, see, he nailed me. The little bugger.

Yeah.

I mean, they are, they never miss a meal.

Now, this one obviously is a lot younger than this one.

Oh, sure, sure.

Know. So let me try and save my fingers here and put this away. I'm gonna put this, and this is, if you can really see it here, did you get DG into it? Is that what that is?

What do you think? Pastel DG, Jaguar?

There is no DG in this. No D.

Wow.

Yeah. This is, uh, I believe I forgot to bring the tag down and put it on here. Uh, super pastel, uh, Jag OD.

Very nice. I was gonna ask on that, that super Jaguar, man, that just screams like OD for the next step, you know? Like it seems such the, the sort of the next step on the path, if I were, if I were just thinking out loud. So that's that's neat that you have have got that going already.

Well, funny you should say that, Adam.

Oh, super Jag orange dream? Get out of here.

All right, let's see it.

That's beautiful. That's just super Jag OD. Single OD?

Yes, sir.

Okay, man. I always, I always say pattern, contrast, and color. That is there. It is right there. Look at that.

Okay. How do you like my little turntable thing?

I, I'm liking it. Is that a, is a little wine server?

What is that there? It's a, it's a lazy Susan. You know, we, we had some people over for dinner the other night, and, and we had some cheese on here, and we're spinning it, and I thought, wow, it'd be so cool to put a snake on there. Now, those people probably will never come over here for dinner again, but it was a great idea, right?

Right.

No, it is a good idea. And it, it, it is good. I, I actually, as you were taking the first snake out, before you switched the camera, I was almost just about to ask how you were gonna present them because whenever I'm on like somebody else's podcast, and I show a snake, you got to do these acrobatics, and then the light messes it up and all that. This is great. That orange dream super Jag is fantastic.

Thank you.

Yeah, I'm really happy he was born. I think hatched in, I'm gonna say November.

Mm-hmm.

So, so he's quite late, uh, and he was quite small, but he ate right away. So this is, I'm gonna have you figure out what that is.

Let's see. Just by the context clues, I'll guess. Um, maybe a fire yellow belly?

Well, I don't know. We got in there, fire yellow belly, maybe orange dream, and Jag. What do you got there?

There's no orange dream. It's Jag Calico fire.

Calico?

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. That's about as clean as I've ever seen. I like Calico a lot, but it never stays so clean. It sort of, uh, tends to lose a little definition down on the belly there. I mean, we could see some of that flaming like fire would do as well, but that, that's great. I love the, um, I love the color of fire. I can, I can gene spot it, and there's a, there's a coloration to it that's just really pleasing to me, and that comes through even in there, but then the really dark contrast on top is excellent as well.

So this is a super Jag fire orange dream.

Yeah, just super Jag fire.

Huh? Have you, uh, have you or has anybody seen, uh, Jag in any, uh, recessive combinations or clown?

Yeah. Well, Justin just, uh, showed a phenomenal clown that was Jag, and, and what it does is it bands the clown also. Chima and, uh, is it Aura? Yeah, Patrick and Aura. Yeah, yeah. They've, they've actually got some, uh, Jag clowns, and they're phenomenal, phenomenal.

Yeah. So this is a super Jag Calico, uh, fire.

Okay.

And I've seen that one. You posted that one recently, is that correct?

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great how Calico made almost a ringer on the back too.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah.

I guess it's Calico. Whatever made that.

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of, kind of cool.

So yeah, I'm very excited. It's not a project I show a lot, but I think I just did.

There you go.

Yeah. You, it's kind of neat. And again, you know, it's a pattern mutation, it's a color mutation, so it's an enhancer. It, it makes it, it, you know, uh, it just makes everything pop in, in a very good way. And now this guy, he is gonna, he's on fire.

Yeah, I see him.

Yeah. He's like, "Where the hell are you? I know you're here, and I am gonna bite you." It's like Russian roulette with snakes, Mark.

God, what I have to do.

Look at him.

Uh-huh.

I mean, he is looking right at me. He is zeroing in.

Okay. I'm just gonna do, look at the water there. It is.

Y- there you go. Have a drink.

Okay. Put that one. And I got one more to show you, okay? Once this guy, uh, he like gets put away, I'm coming to get you.

Look at his mouth is open there.

Go. There you go.

So this is, uh, this is an older. So this is a 2023.

Okay.

Oh, nice.

Still fire in that one or not?

Uh, Jag OD fire.

Drago def fire, but look at the banding on that thing.

Yeah.

Yep.

Right. And the blushing.

Kind of cool.

It is cool. Yeah. It's got that head stamp with the fire. That's nice.

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot to do with this project. And, um, this year I'm hoping to produce, uh, some, uh, pastel desert ghost Jags. Oh, I believe Marco Morphe has produced a desert ghost Jag, uh, this year. I believe early this year he might have, but, yeah. So that's something I'm hoping to get done this year.

Yeah, that'll be a nice boost, even more so on the, uh, the contrast on the banding as well, and the coloration, as you were talking about, actually.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's a reason why DG is so popular for sure.

Yeah. Love that.

Um, Mark, I guess, well, a pressing question. Do you have any for sale? Any on, uh, any listed anywhere?

Uh, I will be putting some Jags for sale on MorphMarket in the next two to three days. Oh, okay. Right around the corner.

All right.

Yeah. I've taken the pictures, I've edited the pictures, I just need to get them on there. I might even do it tomorrow morning, just take half an hour and just, uh, do it. But I do most everything here by myself, so, you know, including the rats. And tomorrow's feeding day, and so I'll see how I make out tomorrow. But with my wife in Peru, I'm, I've got more time on my hands. You know, I usually work till 10 o'clock every night.

Now, there was there was a moment there I thought you were gonna say you were a little bit short-handed, but you said, "No, I've got, I've got more time now."

Yeah, I got more time. Um, because I, I do, you know, believe in quality time together. We absolutely, you know, and, and, uh, you know, so there's certain time we stop working, and she's self-employed as well, so she's, you know, we go, okay, at this time we're gonna stop, and we're just gonna spend the evening together, enjoy a glass of wine, watch some good TV, or, or drink a, you know, I mean, have a nice meal, and just talk all night, and listen to some good music.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, could do that with you all night, Mark.

I gotta ask, will you, I got to have you back sometime. There's, we've just, it's a blast. I love it.

Any, thank you so much. Uh, I, you know, I don't know where, how else to send people off. I mean, you, you could be found on Instagram, the usual places, MorphMarket. Uh, are you going to be, are you doing any, uh, public shows anytime soon? Any plans on that horizon?

Uh, I'm going to be doing the Canadian show, the CRB, in, uh, September, and it's a great show. A lot of Americans came up last year. Yep. And they said they absolutely love the show. Um, and a lot are coming back this year. So that, that's a show. Uh, I do. There's a window of opportunity, uh, opening up. I can't give the details of it, but it involves another really good friend of mine in the industry that might allow me to actually start doing some US shows.

Cool.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, we'll stay tuned. Uh, I'm already plotting in my mind how, uh, our paths are gonna figure out how to cross in person. And I will have a, I have a nice bottle of wine for somebody I know that can enjoy it, and we can tell stories and listen to stories. And, man, I, I'm, thanks so much for being here, Mark. It's been a real pleasure.

It's been my pleasure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Adam, thanks for asking me.

Well, thank you so much for being here, and I will, I will ask you sooner. I give you, I give you my word on that. I'll ask you back sooner for sure. Um, audience, I will be back, same place, same time next week. I can't wait to see you. In the meantime, go check out some of, uh, Mark's, uh, content and posts and all of that. You got a little taste on those Jags there. If you haven't seen it, Mark, thank you so much. Stick around in the green room. I'm gonna, I feel like I'm stumbling into wrapping this up, but, uh, just, we're, we're out of here. Thanks, everybody. Good night.

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