FJAAK on the key to a successful creative partnership

Hey guys, hello, hi. How you doing? I'm good. How are you doing? Good, good. Um, okay. Well, I wanted to jump straight into kind of a personal question, I guess. Um, you've embraced this branding, I guess, or the image of being a techno boy band. Um, so I wanted to ask, since you spend so much time together between making music and touring, do you consider yourselves to be like best friends?

Definitely yes. I would say I think we're even more than this. Um, like we get asked if we were brothers like every two days, I would say. And I think it's, if you spend so much time with someone that you start to breathe the same air, you eat the same food, you do the same things, uh, you talk about the same things together, you start to think about the same things, uh, I think you can become something like, uh, soulmates, you know.

Do you also live close to each other then?

Um, I mean, we lived for a long time together, for almost 10 years, in three different kind of flats. I lived at his parents' place with his brother in like one basement in our studio, and yeah, we know each other really, really well. I think there's nothing I don't know about him, and there's nothing he doesn't know about me. And I, I think it's, there's no one else I spent more time in my life with than than Felix, and probably there's no one he will spend ever more time in his life than me. So I think we are really aware of that, and we know it's special to have that, to share a life like that together. And I mean, it, it's kind of a really incredible situation where, where when we recognize we also, for sure, crime to do something that you love and to share passion with your best friend, right? And then at some point you're just so like distracted and just doing to, to make it true. And at some point you realize like, wow, we made it.

For me personally, it was like at Fusion, like at Fusion Festival, like we went the first time where we were like 16 or something, illegally, and we sneaked in, and we saw the Tomorrowland, and then like exactly 10 years later, when we were like 25, 26, we played there at the opening of Tomorrowland, like a live set. And I just had to cry because I, we realized, bro, we're really doing this. Yeah, that's really crazy. Aaron was really crying like a baby, actually, like really, like crocodile tears like running all over his face, but it was like a massive moment for us because, yeah, you're always dreaming. And I think, um, in the process when the dream happens, um, you don't even realize that it's kind of like becoming reality. And, um, yeah, all these people like waiting until this stage get opened, and then everybody's running towards you, that's like literally dust building up, like there's like some wild renos coming towards it, it's crazy. And then, then you start to play, and that, that feeling was just crazy because we went there when we were 16 years old with like fake wristbands. So yeah, wow. Story came to an end. Yeah.

Do you ever feel like you have any kind of creative dissonance, or are you always in synergy about what you're working on, about your sets?

I mean, there's times where you have, uh, like a lot of inspiration and endless amount of energy, and you just want to go to the studio all the time. And then there's times where you also have to do a, a lot of other stuff, and, um, you listen to a lot of other stuff, and you would also do different kind of music, you know what I mean? Every time you go to, um, to the studio, you have a different energy, and sometimes it's good what's coming out, and sometimes it's, it's also good, but it's something else, you know what I mean? More for like home listening or whatever. So yeah, I meant more between the two of you. Um, like I think, uh, yeah, to answer the question, I think sometimes everybody is in a different mood, and that can be in a daily, weekly, monthly, maybe even like a yearly basis. Um, this can happen with friends, this can happen with collaboration partners. Um, this can happen with your family, this can happen with food, you know, like one day you like lies, all of a sudden you want to have lies every day, you know, and then this week is over. And, um, I think that, um, sometimes we have the ability to push us, like maybe I'm tired, or Aaron is tired, and the other one will kind of like help the other one to keep like stay on track. Um, I think the superpower we evolved over the years is that if someone maybe is tired or something, like he won't like drag the other one down, um, because I think that over time, at least if you're looking to have an harmonic life, you real, you like, how do you say, you realize when you're not good for the other one, like you know, like there's, there's a day maybe where, uh, we plan to meet, you know, and then maybe we don't, because one's just super tired, you had to go to the Embassy, and then there was a dentist, and then this other do workout, you know. But I think usually we are quite on the same map, and even on the same location. And, um, yeah, I think most of the time, I would say, like speaking for myself right now, but I think 99% of the time this is not an issue. But I think this really developed over time, like spending time with somebody like all day, like you will also find out if you really like each other or not, you know, like. And, um, yeah, if we wouldn't like each other, I think we would have like learned about that like 10 years ago. Yeah. Um, I, I think it was the biggest inspiration, like, um, each other, you know what I mean? And we started with like a big group, like, uh, we called it back then even Drive, and we had a lot of different names. Now it's called 20 but Machine Vibes, machine, so many things, so many brands. Yeah, but, but our group was like, it was more than just the two of us, with the group that we shared the passion for, like. And this is why we also created the Labish, which is all people who, who did music now for like as long as us, 15 years. And we started with those people, and was always like a push, if there's someone else also doing music and you had a new track, showed it, and then they were like, wow, that's cool, listen to this synthesizer from this plugin, and then you would see a new plugin or a new synthesizer, learn something new, and then you get inspired again at new energy, because like it's, there's so much input all the time you get from each other, like it's really amazing. Say yeah.

I think as someone who has experienced, um, like touring alone, I think someone else, just to feed ideas off of, or like give you even just to have company, I think it makes such a huge difference. Yeah, like, like you know, sometimes it makes you wonder how strong some of these solo artists are, but then you know, when I talk to some of them, like, like I don't want to blame anyone, but most of them are not feeling so good when they travel alone, like they, you know, they, they're like really good at constantly lying at themselves, or like maybe like making it up. And I think there's also some people that really enjoy it, like there are some people that need exactly this, and I also know, I also know them, um, I know exactly, um, who this is, but the thing is, um, I think the most important thing is that like your ego, um, I think it's very unhealthy for your ego as a job, like, like just in general, like you come somewhere, you like somehow in the center of some action, you know. And I think having somebody on your side will just make you feel like everything is kind of normal, like you, like you're a normal person, you're not, you're nobody special, you know, like I mean, everybody's special, but, um, I know, I mean everybody's nobody, you know, like to me everybody's nobody, but nobody is me, you know. So I think that's kind of like the healthiest way to think about yourself, you know, like. And I think that's something that, that we figured out together very, very good. I think it's a reflection, because you reflect with each other much better than just on your own, in every moment, like you can be just unfriendly to the guy at the reception and be like, yo, come on, Aaron, like don't talk rude to him. I mean, stuff like this didn't really happen, but like stuff like this could happen, and I saw like many other people doing this. And yeah, we have this like automatic regulation system, I would call it, that F kind of like brings with us, like being two people. Yeah.

Uh, well, I want to get into, by the way, same on drugs, right? Like, you know, like imagine, I would see every drinks too much on two, like, yo man, that's not health for your body, like drunk blah blah, you know, like, um, yeah. And yeah, I think sharing a passion together, like really bonds, and if it's honest, gives you an incredible amount of power. I, I mean, even in sad situations, like even like for, like lately there's a lot of music that maybe we don't like so much, and then as a single artist, I, I think then you would be like a little bit sad, because there's a lot of stuff coming out which is going in a different direction than you would like to have it.

Yeah, yeah, even coming from people that we used to look up to them, you know, like after 10 years they change their style all of a sudden for some trends, you know. But, but, but then if you, um, can become really sad, you, you can talk with someone about it who shares the same time than you in, in what you did, and listen the same stuff then you did, and probably has the same emotions about that, and then you share the emotions, and you can reflect it more, and you're less sad, you know what I mean? Because you do what you do, other people do what they do, and that's fine, like everybody's doing what they like, so yeah, that's cool.

Well, let's talk about your album that just came out. Um, is it the first that you did just as the two of you?

Yes, yes, it is actually. The, the first album that we did with the two of us, and it was like a big, big thing for us, also for sure, like we were looking forward to do this album since a long time, like we, we did even a lot of albums in that time, like the, the only reason why it didn't get released earlier is like there was a lot of crazy stuff going on in this world lately, as we all noticed, like Corona, and yeah, from the pandemic to wars and like political conflicts to private things that also can happen, you know, family things, nobody knows, know, like there's many things, um, many things that actually like came in our way. But, um, like Aaron and me used to work together on productions, um, earlier quite often, because we started sound engineering together, and, um, as a sound engineer we produced big bands, uh, jazz orchestras, also classical stuff, a lot of, like lot of trios, lot of J trios, Kino trailers, like stuff for the cinemas, advertisements, um, yeah, for some big brands, for some small brands, um, like lots of stuff. But, um, like the thing is, like when we, when we, when we became the two of us, like we've been touring so much at the time, we played a live set, um, um, that we played, I think like for like two years, there was like different setup than now, um, and we used to exchange the songs on a weekly basis, so we had a new song in the live set like every week. And I think that we just been like pushing on doing like dance floor music, you know, all the time, we, we've been doing like music, music that we like to play for people. And then at some point the right time for an LP came for us, and then the pandemic hit.

How do you feel like that LP builds off of or departs from your last two full lengths, or just from your output more generally?

Um, I think the first of all, you can see that, uh, we grew, I would say, like we, we got more adult in our music, I would say, compared to the first two albums, definitely. Also, it's almost like the first two albums connected together as the long, how long the album is, and how much it shows from our side what we do, besides our double the length of the, of the previous albums. So it's like we did two albums together connected, and I, I think this album is the first one that really shows most of the aspects of our music that we do, connected to electron music, like, because there's a lot of stuff that we did lately which, um, is not, um, like specifically, um, dedicated to the dance floors, and it's more for like home listening and for like a lot of situations where I just, where we just like to listen to music, uh, like this. And for us, I think like electronic, uh, music had always a big part of like home listening music, and this is something that also got like a little bit, uh, forgotten lately, because people are too much focusing on the dance floors somehow.

At Fields?

Yes, definitely. This is also by why there's less albums, I think, right? Like back then on the albums, it was normal to have like maybe one or two tracks for the dance floor, and everything else is more like home listening, because at with a home, uh, with album you can show all the different aspects of like what you, what inspiring you in electronic music, right? But I think it's because of this pressure to put out content, to get booked. I mean, this is a whole other conversation, but I agree that that's why you see more like short form, so people want to do projects, like products, and, um, they have to be promoted, they have to be supported, and everything that is more than one song actually is already like not so good, because if you haven't release with two songs, you can pitch only one song for example on most of the platforms, so people will be like, yeah, we should release this as singles and like split it up in like 800 different releases, you know, like. And then they will, yeah, this song is not so strong, you know, doesn't make sense, like it's just like, um, ambient loop, you know, like we just going to remove this, you know, like. And then this kind of how the industry kind of works, and, um, this is also how all the artists kind of grew up. Um, what we did is in the beginning we've been like putting out one album that we did with Mar town, and I think you know, putting out an album on a label like this can also mean that you have people that maybe say you like a few things, like, yeah, I would do this, or like this is my recommendation, you know, things like this, and this can be very good. And, um, for I think for our stadium at that time, I think it was good, and I think at the moment we've been kind of like doing everything on our own, there's a moment where you really come to yourself, and you really think about what you want to do. And in the end, if somebody likes your music, like, uh, what people call a fan, you know, like somebody that likes the stuff that you do, um, they like what you like, you know. If not, you're a slave again to the system, you like, you're trying to do something that you don't like yourself, just to make somebody else happy, like you can also go somewhere and work, do like another job, but this is not the reason why we did this, so we wanted to do what we want, so we really try to do really what we want and put this in front of our people. And, um, I think that's, that's just like the, the realest thing we could do.

I think what you said with the, what the, that's what the industry we wants is like, that, that's what most of the people have also in their daily, um, situations, it's like most of the people have like small talks, right? And you hear what you want, because they're asking you what you want, oh, how you doing, and whatever, but I'm fine, the weather's good, yeah, but they don't ask like, like uncomfortable, complicated questions, you know what I mean? And I think like this is with them be a deep talk, and, and I think our album is con, um, comparable to, like it's the opposite of a small talk, you know what I mean? Yeah, so, so you have like, like a conversation which is going really deep, and maybe it's not exactly about what you wanted to talk about or what you wanted to hear about, but in the end it's interesting because you got new thoughts or new inspirations, like it's a different kind of view, but you know this, there's one guy at the event, and you see that he has maybe like a bread, breadcrumb and a beard, and there's like a hundred people around him that they won't tell them, you know, yes, like that's kind of like people, oh, how are you? Good man, fine, you know, like, uh, this looks pretty weird, you know, like, but nobody will tell them, you. And yeah, we try to talk about the breadcrumb in the first second, you're like, yo, you got a breadcrumb, and you be your brother, that's good, I would want someone to tell me about the, um.

Well, so there's, I mean, on this note, there's a line in the press text that interests me, and it says that the album is focused on a brighter, more equitable future, and that tracks like the opener Unity confront the harsh reality of a music industry that's not always kind to artists. Um, can you elaborate on this, like in what ways do you see the music industry as being broken?

I mean, first of all, um, we're coming from a time where people could really make music and live from it, and really like somebody would be a musician and probably not has to show like his skill of even like on a stage or something, because he's just putting out CDs, vinyls, whatever tapes back in the days, whatever. Um, now we're getting like 0.00000000000000000001 cents for one stream, and, um, at the same time, then you have platforms like Bandcamp which are just brilliant, and, um, you, you like, you know, it's, it's kind of like hard to tell what is the future of this going to be like, is Bandcamp going to be brilliant in a year, maybe it's going to be privatized, you know, um, like so kind of like there's so many things that are unforeseen, and like Al, you can't, you can't know what's happening, like. And there's many things that also change not to the good side, for example, streams on Spotify need to reach 1,000 to even, uh, be ability to, to put out royalties to the artist, um, like you literally don't get money if you don't, if you don't have these amounts of streams. I mean, it's just a few cents anyways, but I think it's kind of crazy. Um, at the same time, Spotify invests like millions and millions in weapons, um, and yeah, nothing of this interests us, you know, like we don't want actually like somebody put money into webs, you know, that where our music is released, you know, like. So the everything is so complex, people don't even know about it, like you have, you play at a festival, and then behind you there's just a small sign, but this is going to be the sponsor of the stage, you know, that probably put like 20, 30 grand into the stage, you know, like to book all the artists, whatever, like you know, but then this has to be next to you, so you cannot be like playing next to the whatever logo, you know. And yeah, I think that's like there, like an, an endless amount of things that, that, um, are not really easy to display, understand, even as an artist, like you're going to be like, is that cool right now? Is like I'm playing with the brand right now, I didn't even know about it, you know, like there, it's, it, it became like an industry that is very, very complex. Beside that, now we are using social media, which is like privatized by people, so there's like some random people that can actually decide how this platform works, and, um, it's already funny, but like a flyer contains text, so posting a flyer doesn't work, so people are kind of like forced, you know, to work with this.

To promote themselves and I think it's like a really crazy world, and it's really unhealthy, and it's really bad for music. And there's like people come to you like, "Oh, this is also good," I'm like, "No, there's nothing good about it," because it's forcing people to do anything. And I think art must be as free as possible, and I think art should not be promoted because, like, art should be promoted by art. You know, like you're going to be like, "Wow, that's a good song," damn, because that's where we're coming from. Like we've been literally playing at clubs because we made good music, you know, and we've been, we've been coming from a time before techno was mainstream, like, you know I mean, mainstream. And it's not really mainstream, but it's kind of like, it's, you know, yeah. I, I think the problem at this side also, where, where I really recognized like, okay, the industry is becoming really bad in this uh scene was like when we were um together with people who honestly discussed about like which big festival they should bought next. And then I realized I didn't know that before that uh a lot of festivals that we all know is just owned by a company of two people, and they own like, I don't know, nobody's talking about it; it's crazy. Like I think that people are scared about it; it's crazy. Yeah, and yeah, nobody knows it. Like we, we actually, most of the famous festivals that you know, like around Europe and even around the world, is owned by two people, and they're, by one after one, they look at numbers, how it works. And the problem here is that they're here for profit, right? They want to create a monopoly; they don't do this because they like this music or the scene; they don't have no idea; they see just numbers. And if they are in charge of a festival, they also can tell who got booked, right? So what are those guys looking for? To book the biggest numbers, and this is the problem here. So the music, the scene is changing to just have like a lineup of the most profitable DJs, and this is not about art anymore.

Exactly. Also, you're missing out on the educational part, you know, like because back in the days there would be like a festival or like a promoter that would put an artist in front of people that will actually be like, they would not even understand and maybe would be like, "Yo, that, that was just crazy, what did I listen to," you know? But like this kind of got away; people like, people became way too much power and just not liking or commenting stuff on social media, you know, and um, um, no, no, they're kind of like in control of something. Like while some people think this is very good, um, if you would go to an art exhibition, like, do you want to be the person that controls which pictures, which drawings you're going to see? Like, me, not. I want to go there and be like, "Wow, that was a crazy, that was crazy, like, w have never seen this, this is crazy." But people are more like, yeah, they, they want something that they, that they kind of expect; not everybody, of course, there's um lots of people looking for the difference, and um I appreciate you guys, you guys are still out there, and they will be fighting forever. But like we have this like moment right now where things are controlled by weird factors, and um, yeah, it's true; there's two people that own, like, I mean I won't name all the brands, but the things that you go dancing to, the things that you buy tickets is owned by these two people, and um it's not even good or bad because I don't even understand what that means, but um there's festivals um that are owned by nobody, and these are usually the ones that I like the most, like, you know, kind of always like, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like recently we played one; it's called the cray festival, and um it's really, it's coming from people sending like, secretly, the same way we did it, like secretly locations on, on like an group chat somewhere, and then people would come and rave until the cops came, you know, and kind of develop from there. And then you can definitely see how real the things are, like every person that works there, you know, like then you will go to another event, and the person at the entrance already like gives a total sh—"Oh yeah, you there? Oh, you set them? It's in 10 minutes? Oh yeah, okay, wait, uh, okay." And after I'm like, "Yo, you know that we have to play in five minutes now?" "Oh, I forgot about it; I was just smoking a cigarette." I'm like, yeah, there's like different, there's different places and different ways and different people, and um, yeah, the real ones know who the real ones are; that's actually the most beautiful thing in the world. The fake ones will not feel real; they, they will never feel real.

Do you feel like artists who are kind of at the top of the hierarchy in the Techno industry have a responsibility? I think I didn't understand the beginning of the sentence, like, um, do artists who are um, like who have the most success, for at the top of the hierarchy, have a responsibility to try to exert pressure to, to change? 100%, that's, that's something that's um, they would, but I don't think that they feel addressed. Actually, no, I think it is something that you are really responsible to, and I think this is something that a lot of people are not aware of, and this is the problem here; they just think they, they have to play a game or something, but actually the game exists because of the artist, you know what I mean? And the ravers. So most likely the ravers inspired the, the uh artist, and the artist inspired the ravers. So it's like um, symbiosis, you know what I mean? And the promoters most likely are also important part of it because they make it happen, you know what I mean? So I, I think the, the thing here is that, that you should see where you come from, what you really liked about it and love, and try to keep it safe and, and to, to also keep pushing stuff that you love because just like that you still do what you love, right? Otherwise it will change to something that you we don't like just because you followed something. Yeah, and this will happen faster than you think, and we saw some of the artists, some of the big artists, especially the artists that became very big in the last two, three years, we saw how the joy left their faces, like, like trust me, like when you will, when you will focus on this as um, as somebody that listens to me right now, you will definitely recognize the same thing. Just look at the faces; you can even see it online these days because it's all online, so you can just look at the faces of the people in the videos that they posted three, four years ago and look at the faces that they have right now, and then you will see that there's like lots of, there's like almost blood disappeared from the face. So um, like I think that like lots of people, for example, they just want to become big, for example, and um, yeah, if you would have become just big, you would have made a totally different album, would have probably made totally different music, um use some mainstream samples, do some nice edits, um put an R&B umbrella edit on there too, um but like, you know, there's like, there's like totally different approaches right now. And right now you guys that are look looking for the real thing, you are mixed, you're in the same pot with the fake ones, so try to swim up there, guys.

Uh, I know that in um a past interview you said that you're always trying to convince bookers to book relatively unknown or underground artists. We didn't have that support, and it was so hard, and we want to make sure we do it for others. Do you usually find that bookers are pretty receptive to this? Um, or no? I, I would like, I think like we have like, yeah, like I mean kind of like repeating what I said, but we have people that just based bookings on numbers. I think like lots of, lots of booking just based on numbers, like followings, um, um Spotify streams, um, but yeah, just all these beautiful playlists that just completely boost your profile out of nowhere, um, so like there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of ways to, to distract the promoter these days. Um, there's people out there, they are real and they don't care about how much like something gets, and they will book it, and they're, they like, usually they also, some of them at least, they they've been able because it's education, like they, they book good music over the last one or two years, and the crowd in the city trust them. Like then there's people they would just like make a festival where every, every stage will sound the same, like because that's the trend right now. So you will have kind of like fast-paced uh vocal um, lasty um music with like Run DMC samples, um, stuff like this, you know, like on every stage from, from like literally the morning, the first, the first set will start on 140 BPM, like 150 BPM, and the last set will, I probably, I don't know, I don't like, I, I can't even count that high, but like that's kind of like happening. But then we have places like, what's a good example? Cult, the club that we just played, he's only booking great artists; he's only booking underground, and the people appreciate it, and, and um, but I think as a promoter, if you start to book only like, you know, you like, if you book like people that will drag TikTok people, you get TikTok people into the club; after two, three months the whole concept will feel like it changed, you know, because you dragged all the people in there, and they will also, like other people will feel like they're not really belong there anymore. Um, yeah, I don't know, I got a little lost; I'm sorry, guys. I, I think actually that um, I mean, industry is not just bad, right? And the scene is not just bad right now; it's also a lot of good stuff happening, and um, I mean, we also, we are also promoters; we try to book like a lot of like young people lately to our labor parties at Burkin, for example, and I think a lot of those people will play there again, which is nice. And like every artist that we booked had his debut at that night. Oh wow, yeah. And the, I think it's the only night that did that so far, really. And, and I think what, what we recognize right now is that what, what when a scene is aware of that they got um, two fame, and it's just a hype, like at some point it's like with blockbusters, you know, at, at some point the blockbusters became so obvious and cheap because they tried to reach more people that they do the opposite; they don't reach them anymore because it's not cool anymore to watch, you watch the same movie already like another time, no, because it's obvious. And, and then, and then you would be one of those people who's flat, you know what I mean? Nobody wants to be flat; no one wants to go to the obvious stuff, you know what I mean? So I think at some point they, they like, okay, it's not cool no more, go. I think we reached that point now, yeah, because it almost went to EDM, what they, some people did at some stages there, dance like, like, like, yeah, these guys were playing like, sorry, but this is the wrong place, this is the, the wrong, the like, this everything is wrong; it's just doesn't be wrong at that place, you know? So, so I, I think that, that people at this point try then to, to look for, for the alternatives, and this is what's happening there, and this is why a lot of people, like promoters also, to come back to your question, are booking a lot of underground DJs right now to, to find the next big thing, and let's see what is the next big thing. I think if you look back to the time we talked with Richie Hawtin, Plastikman lately, maybe we go really slow right now, you know what I mean? So let's see what happen. I really agree on the part, what he says is true, but still the way they're discovering it is not that underground anymore because like they will still find them on Instagram or like on a social media platform, and they will be pretty much, they will find it because a lot of other people liked it or somebody else liked it. I think like promoters really only looking for music like, I, you know, I know that you all my friends, guys, and we all work together; I don't want to step on your, but I think to be honest that doesn't really exist right now. I would say like maybe some of them feel like they do it, but at least at the second institution of, of like, like, you know, look for all the check marks, they're going to be like, you know, they have to look, they have to make profit, you know, they cannot make, so, you know, so I understand the promoters, you know, like it's at the same time it's not easy, you know, like it's, and I think it's the maybe the most confusing time right now uh, with all the fake likes and fake, I mean, I think that I would say like honestly half the people you see playing at the big festivals are buying likes, followers, and everything. Uh, it's really easy to track by the way, if you just Google, you can track them, you can, you will see them, you can bust them. Um, um, it's also cool to see who's real and not, um, you know, but the, this, the thing is um, I think that right now like you have to be discovered at least by somebody else um before the promoter will discover you. While I think 10 years ago the promoter could have been the first one to really put somebody on the stage, you're going to be like, "I have no idea who this is," and we're going to be like, "M, is Flash right now," um, stuff like this happened still, I think, but more likely by accident than planned; just my, that's just my expectation, you know, like I don't know what is, what is real, but that's just what I discovered in the, in the, in the last one or two years. Yeah, okay, so let's talk about, okay, wait, do you want to talk about um, maybe the, the lab, or I also wanted to talk about like going back to… okay, okay.

So you started your label, Spend Out Spanish, yeah. Um, thank you. Been in Berlin for eight years, still can't speak German, do… but you started it as an outlet for music from friends and for merging artists. I mean, just like to your point, um, so can you talk a little bit more about that and um, also your showcases and everything you’ve been doing with it? I mean, Shando was the second label that we uh created, and it was like the label that we created most likely for our friends and family. So all those people are have a big connection to Shando; this why it's also called “try”. And we started doing parties there with most of those people. Like I said earlier to you, like we spoke about that that we did illegal parties with those people; we, we did music with them like since 15 years; we even played live with them in Jab with them since a long time. And we wanted always to have something, to create something together, and Shando was then a platform that we created together for that. Yeah, like most of these artists been like quite active in the music scene, but they've been all working behind the scenes. So there's like one guy that's a ghost producer for some of the most successful artists on the world in the world right now. Um, there's another um guy that is a sound engineer at Back and for 10 years; another one is a Dolby Atmos mix-one engineer that works for Netflix and is a really good engineer too. Um, and then we have people that worked at major labels, um at other labels, um and at radio stations, um people that just play seven instruments or, you know, there's, there's people with a lot of different talents, and um, yeah, we wanted to, there, there's a girl that she builds her own modules, um, like she, she, she's like a modular system nerd; like she knows which resistance is needed for that little small thing, and she will like literally blow your mind when you talk to her; you're going to be like, "Wow, how much experience can somebody have?" So this is why we had to do this label; we had to give these people a base.

Since you started hitting it big, I guess it's been more than a decade now since you've really been actively touring to… you've been really outspoken about how it's the clubs just as much as the music that's kept you in the game, and you even released a compilation that was supporting underground clubs during the pandemic. So which are, which clubs have been most influential? Oh, I mean, that's a quite easy question; I think why don't have to, I mean, we, we love a lot of clubs, and club culture was always a big thing, and all the clubs we dedicated um uh like our EPs for, like in the pandemic obviously they are like really important clubs for us. But if I count it down to like three clubs, were like the, if I just could play in three clubs the rest of my life, let's say it like that, it would be obviously Berghain, then it would be Bassiani, and it would be K41. I hope K41 will open again because, yeah, I think it's can even be the biggest club, like the best club, it is still open, I know, but, but yeah, yeah, you mean, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, like, like we think that like internationally this could be the place where everybody would travel to go, like the same like, like people would, people actually started to do this, like I saw uh, we sent many people there from around the world actually because people would ask us and be like, okay, it, I'm going to, I'm going to watch it, you know? And there's one more I would like to mention that's called Basement in New York. Uh, there we also have quite a, I think special relationship too, because of the guys that run the club, but of course New York is a special city too. But yeah, I think mostly because of the people that run the club there, also, there's many other clubs, are you know, the small ones that we mention. Think those clubs, even, I would call Basement to it, okay? Because there's one thing that connects all of those clubs; it's a spirit; they have the same spirit, and they try to do representing the same spirit, and it's incredible. All of those clubs have a um a dark room, for example. Yeah, and yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, like there's also, there, there's many clubs like C, or like, there, there's other places that we like a lot, and people have really special places in the world; it's just like I think these are just the first ones that came on our mind, like we don't want to be the guys that forgot somebody right now; it's not, not that we forgot somebody; all the clubs we dedicated all the EPs for, for sure, there's a lot of more clubs, but if we count it down to three clubs we just can play for the rest of my life, for me personally it would be those three.

Have you ever played at The Office in Yerevan? No, no, but I like, no, know about it, and, and, and was, was supposed to happen actually, like it was supposed to happen, I think that somebody, something happened, I think there was a conflict with aaban or something, to be honest. Oh yeah, there's a war. I, I think that when we had a booking, something came in the way, like I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what it was exactly. Anyway, um, so I want to take a step back, um, talk about how you started. So you were originally five? S… four? You four? Yeah, originally we've been four people. Yeah, okay, I know where I got the number five; no, because with five letters. Okay, that is why. Yeah, that is why I got the number five. Okay, it's con, it's confusing actually. Yeah, it's confusing. I'm guessing those are all your, it's just the beginning, the beginning letters of the names that we had back then. Yeah, ABA, yeah, like, like, like, yeah, like ABA and, you know, like in a way it's like GTA actually. Like the J of Fak, his brother Januel came up with the name Fak. Oh, he's your act, like your actual brother? Yeah, like brother by blood. Yeah, yeah.

Wow, okay. And we also have a feature on the new album. It's called Windmill Hill, which is named after a place that we used to smoke a lot of weed together and, um, look at the stars at night. In where we're from, yeah, our like a few meters from the studio, from the from the first studio, which is, by the way, still containing gear and, um, it's still—how do you say—a place, um, like a ritual, like a ritual place.

Oh, great. Um, sounds cool. Um, ritual speaks like, wait, let let me Google that word. Let me Google that word. Like, I will be—no, we don't have—sorry, turn an—um, I know an—if you go to a church, you know, there's something like the thing, you know, where like they have it in the upstairs. Funny side fact, because they think they are like bad spirits.

Yeah, yeah. I yeah, yeah, exactly. What's the English word for this? Like, like what's the English—like, you know, it's in front of a church? Uh, it's it's—SE—it's okay, it'll probably come—like, just to explain, like there there there's an octopus right now—they that that um approached a woman that was diving. And the octopus like built—what I was talking about—underground out of human things, and in the middle of the of the thing there was a picture of a human. I'm not kidding right now. Yeah, and it's it's going around the world right now. So, um, um, so the thing is that there will be um a documentary on Disney+ about it, um, which will show exactly that. And but so the thing is that like the octopus just saw the woman diving and the picture, you know, the picture that—so he was, oh, that's a human, you know, so I want to show this to the human, my human place, you know.

Wow, that's—the way it's really crazy. Octopuses are really crazy, by the way. They are wonderful animals, but like, yeah. So still, what is this thing? Like, what is this thing called? About like a shrine, you know? Yeah, a shrine. Like, but I don't mean a shrine, you know, a dedication or—um, it's our shrine. It's your shrine. So the Spano basement is our shrine. Okay.

Um, so at what point—I know that a few years ago your third member ended up leaving. Is that something you'd feel comfortable talking about? So, happen? Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, it's not that he left like we kicked him out. Um, like there's many misinformation about that in the internet, just to clear that part. But mainly, you know, it's been just like I think personal interests that wouldn't align anymore. Like, um, like for us underground is very important, and all the things that—I think that we have like a same definition of things that we like. I mean, he was calling—wordly—that techno is a circus and stuff like that. So he was not having it with techno anymore, and he was reaching to the whatever kind of music he tried to make. Like, the interest got away from music and just focus on—like commercialization, you know? Like, like there was many artists these days, they just want to become big, you know. But for us, we really follow this kind of like mission that only exist in our head. That's the most important thing for us, and we love the music so much, so we will always stick to the music, you know. If techno is becoming super underground and nobody's going to book us anymore, I'll tell you—you see me back at Penny, I'm gonna be like beep beep beep, still make my beats, and nobody can stop me. And that's that's actually I think what what what actually really unites us as a—dEXA—like we actually started that because we we loved it. And at some point the third guy was just like, um, realizing for himself that this that he just got dragged in in it, that he never had time to process and feel himself that maybe it's not what you really want. And for us we were—and this why he tried to change also what we did. We had like a singer for a time and stuff, and we were like, actually, no, that's that's not what we want to do. We want techno, and he wanted to push more for like pop music or whatever, to like different—jus—and then at some point it was just like, no, we actually love techno, we love to do this, and he was like, okay, then I try to be a pop star, you know what I mean? So it's different kind of interest—interest—conf—I would say it sorted itself like naturally. Like, um, I think like if you if you're honest with your own interests and you also can't hide this from your friends, you know, so I think at some point, you know, everything was kind of obvious, and then things just happened how they happened. Yeah, and we are super thankful for this because for us being the like the two of us is the most productive way that we could ever work and create music together. And at the same time we also started enjoying like touring more again and like, you know, I don't know, like we we're just really good friends, you know? Like that's—I think maybe maybe maybe this the reason—I don't know—that's uh true, but I think it's just because we are at the same string, you know what I mean? And for a time we were at the same string with four people, then at some time with three people, but then sometimes the strings are going different ways, and I'm just super happy that I have someone I can share the same string with, you know what I mean? It's amazing.

Yeah, I was going to ask if you feel that your process has changed a lot since it's now just two of you. Cuz in some ways I could see four or three people being—it's like too many people to deliberate over making creative decisions. Yeah, so I think that as we had this kind of like band concept where we would really like everybody had his own machines, and one would play the synthesizer and this drum machine, and then the other one had this sampler and like, you know, like like there were there there's a way—I think there's a way for everything—like C for example, or like, you know, um, I think there's a way for everything, but I think there's no reason to force anything, you know? Like, um, and I think that this is something that we actually never did. So my my brother, he left just because he just didn't feel it anymore, you know? Like he was like—he was also studying—was—he's now a master on architecture, and he's like super good, and um, they're crushing it. And he's at the same time now he's he's a sound designer. He just played in New York uh and Detroit two weeks ago, so it's not that that he's not successful, you know? So I think there's a way for everybody to to go, and um, um, I think yeah, being true to yourself—I think that's the most important part. Yeah, I think uh like the process how we uh did music for example with the four of us and then the process how it is now is not that much different because we all started together to create our own workflow kind of, you know what I mean? And then if you learn together something and not just learned on your own and then made like a group together, it's a different thing, you know what I mean? We all started at the same time kind of and and had the journey of like getting into this passion more and more together, so we learned every step together. Gave our tricks to each other and exchanging stuff every day—like every day—I mean like really sometimes multiple times a day. Yeah, you check that one out, like even like sending sound examples or like bounce stuff or like, yeah, really invite somebody, be like, yo, you see this plugin looks crazy, like you check that one out, stuff like this. We we had that happening like continuously. Yeah, the exchange made together, so nobody was creating the workflow. It happened naturally with all of us together, which is interesting because we still have the same workflow, and it's really still like this. Like just yesterday we had a call, and both of us—Aon and me—we talked together, then we talked to Toby Nman about like one clock operating device. It's maybe too nerdy for now, but like it's like still the the way that that we would approach these things is still the same, and then we exchanged information like, ah, he did this, we did this, we want to do this, ah, that—you know, that's how we do it, you know? And I think that's that's kind of like yeah, combining combining this forever. I I think also the difference is that for us it was like more like a game that came in, you know what I mean? Like in—sh—yeah, in—shando—there's not much stuff we could do. There was no clubs, there was no—coolar—and then at some point we found music, and music was an endless game which is updating all the time and has so many sub levels and it's insane. The first songs been not good, they've been funny. Like we just really having fun, like really making stupid—wa—so how old were you when you met? It was like before—like you were quite young. We met as we starting on the computer, like 15, 16, because there was like software that come with Kellogs, like like corn flakes. And there was one—um, we had to buy multiple packs together. There was one for like treating pictures and videos, then there was another one for like doing fonts and like play one with letters, like one drawing thing, and one one was for making music. And the making music thing—like it was really really bad and totally limited because it was a light version, but you could drag samples from one place to the other, and you would really understand how music—like first of all, you understand music is made out of different instruments, like you know you know all the—but when you look at it—like when you visualize it at the same time like listening to it—you you're going to understand it in a different way, and I think that's kind of where all started, you know, that's where the roots are from, you know. Then it took time until we really came to the electronic part or like even to the serious part of making music, getting away from this game situation, but that's where it started. I mean, I I think it's still what it is, and this is the different of people who do music to became famous—game—yeah, or or the best game in the world. Some people also just became like um famous as a DJ, and then their pressure to produce, you know what I mean? And then it's a different starting because you have to be productive, you have to get a like a like product in the end, and it's different for us. We just make a lot of music. Like our album was made of like way more than 300 tracks, just because—almost 400—I mean, if I have free time, what are we doing is like still going to the studio and wow, there's a—what is that plugin—and just trying out, you know what I mean? Like having fun in the studio, and then most likely in on the end end of the day there's two new tracks that you could play in a club, and you're like, cool, let's try them out. And maybe a lot of them you will never ever play again because we we just try them out in a club, and most of the tracks we play them once. It's unique that you can hear that and just in the club at this moment, you know I mean? Say most of the tracks get played one time, and then like if we don't like them, then they probably not not not make it again. If we like them, then we will go back to the studio, do some changes, and then play them again in a different way. So and and put them to the live sampler, see how it is if you play them live and stuff. So yeah, it's like a try and error right all the time, like yeah.

So my understanding is that you—when you started making music together—it was because you wanted to make hip-hop beats to rap over. Yeah, so so I mean, it's not that we wanted to rap or make hip-hop beats. It's just like, first of all, we just—for us this was kind of like a magic world. We just like, yo, what are all these cables, the microphones, why are these actual things at the wall, you know? Like why why—like, you know, we we tried to understand everything. Then while we tried to understand these things, I think we just got soaked in—like got really addicted to it—and then um like, you know, we've been just trying to be close to whatever it was. So and the guys that we knew that had—ablon—for example, been rappers, so they—so I was a guy, he had a sound card that was the first sound card I ever saw in my life. I was like, yeah, why do you need this? Why don't you just put the put into the microphone? Like he was explaining—latency—you know, quality, you know? So we were like 14, 15 years old and already came came across that that topic, you know? Like what is sound quality? Then like how does it develop? What is a preamp, you know? Like what is this compressor button that you got there? Why do you use it, you know? Like, and then like all of a sudden like you start to enter like I think whichever angle you take you will kind of like get into the center at some point, and um, we entered it through the hip-hop thing, but we left it in the first second we could, I would say, because we were we weren't rapping, so we were only making instrumentals. So we were making—not hip-hop instrumentals—it was more like a—Cruda—DWF—Meister—music. I would say it was kind of like like you have to imagine people that don't go to a club making electronic music by accident because has really not even a bar that would play a house song back then, like literally. And there was also no four-to-the-floor music in radios or like almost none. And um, we just ended up making electronic music that would be like sounding like something that people be like, yo, that sounds like something I heard in that club. And we like, what's that club? And then they're like, yo, you should go to—fyf—you should go—you should go—above—BL—you should go—Panorama—you should go—you should go—yeah, you should go to these places and check them out because they play music that you do. We couldn't believe it. So we went there and we're like, yo, that's kind of crazy. There's a whole world around this like—and it's also like—I remember I went to the club and I didn't know like, you know, I wasn't dancing because I was just looking at the DJ like—so I was really staring like a stone, staying in front of the DJ desk until people like, yo, man, like I think for the DJ like really uncomfortable. I was like, oh my God, what am I doing? Like, you know, what's like—like we didn't even belong into that place probably in the first moment, so we—because we're really coming from the musical side, you know? Like really not not clubbing, you know? Like not at all. Like I was saying, sorry, but like you had to have a note from your from your mom—what is it called—the—miti—we started in the time of—Moody—Settles—and we also—you explain what that is because I—I—yeah, I mean, if you're not 18 and you still want to go to clubs, like back then there was a possibility where you had like a permission of your mom which is saying like, yeah, my child can go to the club. It's loud, and with—be like—like you can have beers with 16 years old. You can still have—yeah, you can have access to the bar, so you can really buy a beer. I know for some of you guys this is crazy. Like I think I think so too, but like yeah, like you could you you could you could buy the beer and like while being 16 years old and listen to your favorite DJ play if the club concept would allow it, which for us was of course this is great, you know. Um, I think it could have also been bad like considering yeah, drugs or like other things that that you could meet in these in these places, you know? So we understand the whole La situations around it, but for us, you know, it was really really good. Like musically there was like a strong education. Uh, funny part is I think in the local Berlin scene when we were 16 we were like really big underground uh like already like I think we played in every like club, every show of like those like Moody Tittle parties because the people were like, yeah, fak is the—and it was really funny because there was like 16 years ago or 17 years ago there's a group of people here in Berlin that we really grow up with all together, like they they seen some of these guys like booked us. There's one guy, he's working at RSO now, he's he's called San—much love to you—he's one of the first guys to ever book us, and we are still in contact. Um, he just visited us at the Awakenings um two weeks ago at the up close one, and then later on at the after hour we played some—he's at—Brad—I think the people have been quite confused by the way because we started like 120 BPM, but yeah yeah like we we we just in we're just in for the real deal guys. I I think the funny part is what you mentioned earlier that when we started doing this music we thought we are pioneers, like honestly we had no idea about that, then people told us about the clubs, we checked the CL clubs out, and then we became ravers, which is funny because most likely it's the other way around, you know what I mean? That's cuz I started out as a raver. Yeah, yeah. And then I mean yeah, we we played all those like w young parties because we were super young, but we also went then really early to like—burine—and all that when we were 17, right? And yeah, that was also like insane—those worlds to see—and then for us like looking up to all those possibilities out there like—andon—what's the thing called—we went to at—sh jaie—we could play all music in front of people and like like Mike Hakabe was there, for example, teach us a lot of about—um, there was education for reactors actually back then, like literally. We talked with him like for eight hours about reactor, I think like it was crazy. And a workshop or like a—yeah yeah. So so you could burn your own tracks on CD, you could bring them and then they would play would be played like anonymously in front of everybody, and then they would talk about the songs, like for example like say things about it, and then later on there was a DJ that would play only these songs. Wow, and it was—that's sick—so sick. We met so many people there um and many people that would just maybe passing by Berlin would try to visit the event and they been like—for example, there was one workshop—I I call these workshops, but like there been like one session—there was Henrik Schwartz for example, and he been just talking about the—Schwarz Nat—um or like about like the ways he would use ablon or things like this, and then in the end you could really go and like talk to Henrik Schwartz, you know? Like and we've been like literally not even old enough to enter many of the clubs, so we just like, yo, man, this is my—you want to listen to it? Like, hey, how do you do this one? Like I saw you you know? So we were really able to to see things and then ask them right away at the sent. I'm getting feedback. Um, ah, what's the name of these sessions? Like when I say this—the listening sessions at at sh Jai and I mention Mike Hakabe—like most the people that have been there, they they right now know what I'm talking about, but yeah, it won't be that much I guess. I'll I found a day to untext you, okay? I have to know that. Yeah, but I think we we need to start doing something like that again, I just realized, because I think this education part back then what they did was so amazing, like to see as someone who was like starting and seeing and have the exchange.

Actually, with other producers who are doing it for a long time, was insane. Yeah, yeah, asking them questions, being like face to face and stuff, like really cool exchange. And the coolest part is we could sing. Hogan there, sitting Berlin City, sitting front row, smoking. Like I could remember one time, my kak was kind of like sitting in, I was like, "You you guys been smoking like the whole cloud of me? You guys are crazy." Yeah, but yeah, we met lots of uh, Legends and people that we looked up to forever. We met them there.

Okay, I have to ask a question about weed, so if I mean you're on tour a lot, like are you ever able to like not access it somewhere where you're touring? Like is it really like a critical part of your your process, like performing, like you need to have it when you're on the around?

I mean, I think we love playing for people. Like I think we almost like addicted to it, um, but when we had these years with covid where we just been sitting at home, you know, like for two years constantly locked inside, we only made music. And I think we still had an big satisfaction from it, you know. So I think that's we live for, like like we love all these things, but I think we would live only for one of them and be happy too.

Okay, wait, I um I didn't got the question, see that why I was looking so confused. I was like, "Wait a second," I was like, "Wait, like no," I was asking about I was asking about weed. Oh my God, weed. Can you repeat the question? Oh, sorry. Okay, okay. Um, because obviously you're both really into weed. Okay, um, okay, my question was more just like, do you ever find when you're touring like you can't get it somewhere when you're on the road? Cuz some places have very strict no, no, no, no, no, no.

You can get weed everywhere. Okay, just like really everywhere. I mean, really everywhere. I'm talking about North Korea. You've been to North Korea? I I mean, I wouldn't recommend it. I would say we smoked everywhere, but it's not really like recommended to smoke everywhere. Definitely not. Like there's some countries where you have to to sign a death permission in the planes. Like if you go to Singapore, think twice about it. They're hanging people publicly in the city for any drug, for any drug usage, because it's completely against their religion. It's sick ass crazy place, out watch out. Like this also why, why. Yeah, for us it's freedom is the biggest enrichment humans can have and don't risk it for whatever it is, not for the best plant in the world for sure. Um, please guys in these countries, you know, you know, you know where you are, please take care and act accordingly. I mean, we are mostly with locals who know the rules, and we always ask, "How are the rules here? Where can we smoke?" We we even had plans to to write like a smoker guide to expand to people in which country they have to behave how, how they get weak.

I think that's a great idea. Yeah, I think it's like I think that we tested it out the most and like we also had like many not so good experiences. Okay, um, we have been in a present, like really we been involved in corruption. Like we've been where are you in prison in Germany, actually, for example, Bavaria. Um, in Bavaria we've been like literally logged in together in one room, and they we had to like take away all the cloths and really like even bow down, really like kicking up our like and really like really making sure that also errands inside is clear on drugs. Like I got I got it, but like yeah, we also been handling like corrupt police officers in Colombia, for example. Um, um, like you know, like yeah, we had interesting situations, like interesting situations like this. There there have been quite some like, but like I think um we've been lucky and we I think in these moments we've been always acting very right, and we also knew when is the right time to not do it or like stop, I think which is like way more important than anything else. Yeah.

Okay, I want to ask if you don't want to answer this, it's it's fine, but is it like cuz I've never been into weed, so I'm actually just curious, is it like you wake up, roll a joint, like that's like so?

No, there there there's no rituals um involved. Um, um, you know, we love the plant, we love many things about it, um, from the smell to the flavor to just how it looks like, um, to the effect. Um, but for example, we're different, like very different, very very very different consumers, so I don't smoke, I only dab, not anymore.

Wait, what is dabbing? That's like the stupidest question. Yeah, so there like five six years ago, I just started to develop the feeling that I don't enjoy smoke anymore. Like it started with like nicotine smoke, like people smoking cigarettes next to me and I was like, you know, I realized you I'm really going away, like still like now people smoke at a table, I'm not even saying anything, I'm just like letting there do their thing and then just you know go away 10 15 m, do my own thing, have a call, you know, call this one guy, maybe text me a friend back that I had to do. Like there's there's million things to do, but um, like we are very different consumers in a way, but the the strength how much we love it, I think is on the same level, but but like it comes through on social media. Yeah, but it's it's not that you wake up and the first thing that you would do is smoke weed, you know. That's just okay. Here's the thing, so he's vaping, that's the different, I'm smoking, I'm also vaping. Yeah, so dabbing is vaping, so it's a different chemical process. So if you vape, for example, you don't have any coal monoxide or anything like that, you you don't consume the chloro fuel and a lot of stuff which is in the flour which is bad. I do consume it, and I I am aware of all those bad things which still can come even if you smoke pure, but I smoke most likely not because of the effect, even I smoke because I like the terps. Terps makes like the the taste of everything, the flavor profile. Yeah, so even from a mango one, myv mango for example, just um tastes or smells like mango because of the terpene profile in it. So you can have any terpene profile in cannabis which is like insane because um like it's the only plant I think in the world which has this POS uh ability, ability and like that you you can taste every kind of um of of something which is out there. I can taste roses, I can taste like everything. You know, know what I mean? Gas, like soap, like it's insane. I think very good is expent, like there's um like Tes, they have really chemical names, like one is called merine, for example, one is called leonine. I don't know, like like for me it's hard to to say the English words, but like most of them like even the name will tell you already what it is going to be like, and you will really find the same ingredients in other plants. So okay, it's it's just like you know, smell profiles of plants in a way. Um, terpenes are actually like solvents, so if you put like terpenes on like for example like a black written thing with an adding that it will solve, will go away. Okay, so these these are like very um strong chemical components. Okay, so good chemical chemistry lesson, thank you. So so as you see like our our passion is big for it, this is what's connect, and I I do consume the same than what he is consuming too, but I also do flowers, and I think he would do the same if it wouldn't be as bad for for Del lugs, like because it's fun. Yeah, like I mean, like for like at all, like I like smoke, I like vape, um, I think it looks beautiful, um, I think it's spiritual, um, I think sharing a joy with people, you know, it can be like dumb as it can be like drunk in the backstage and it's really like worthless, somebody just like kind of like splits the whole filter and it's really bad, but you can have you can share a joint that the water the sun is shining and you listen to like a nice track and you have the best conversation in your whole life and you know, um, there's many, you can also do the same thing without smoking a joint of course.

Yeah, the ritual, yeah, like you know, like everybody has its own ways and like, but like um to really come back to your initial question, there's no really habits. Uh, I think it's depending on a daily mood and possibilities, and I think yeah, I think mainly it's just like random. I think it's it's like you wake up and you feel like you want to do it or you don't want to do it. I think that's kind of like how I would describe it. Super, it's super super simple actually, like, but for example, right now I'm sober, but I didn't thought about it more, just like I was like, yeah, I mean, I went to the gym to the SAA before, maybe this is why, but sometimes I also smoke before the gym, so you know, there's no I don't know. Um, I I think as as we mentioned before, we we smoke because of the taste, like the terpenes, and I think it's like sometimes it's like if you compare it to wine, sometimes there's good wine around and sometimes not, so if there's not good with wine around, most likely you don't drink it because you just don't drink to become drunk, right? So if there's a wine tastery in I don't know where in France or wherever, and they have if there's a if there's a weed tastery in San Francisco, exactly, then I would say like we are all there for it because we love to to try and experience those different kinds of of phenos, we call it, and every pheno is different, it's like every uh wine is different, you know what I mean? And the diversity of taste is beautiful in this world. I would say there's two different um approaches to drugs, and I think one of them people are like trying to get away from themselves, maybe even hide something, um, maybe even push something down, um, they try to influence themselves I think, and then um I think there's a way of like really enjoying the substance, you know, like it can be with like alcohol is the best comparison, you have this one guy that is like this Cor that will have like no visitors, one thing like take a little sip and spit it out again, you know, and like uh try to taste like then there this other guy that will buy like a Tetra pack and just try to get as as possible in 50 minutes and um like I think that like as a consumer um we are more on the on the first side. Yeah, but being honest with you guys, there is this state where wake up and I just really want to get buzzed and this is how we roll.

So, so in your years of working together, in what ways have you seen each other change the most? Like mainly when Aaron started growing a beard, I was like, "Damn, that's the we getting atled, right? Like we damn, I don't want to I don't want to grow up, like damn," like yeah, so yeah, like yeah, that's that's a really hard question because I I hate I hate I hate hate growing up. Like I I want to you know, Peter Pan for me, like I'm still waiting for him to kind of like pop up at my window and like make me like like I want to be 16 again. You're lucky because you actually still look quite.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I think also like because I want this no, I think it's genetically my family kind of like we all look very young. I hope they will stay like this forever, but I think mainly like Aaron became a like really reflective human, like he's super fair and yeah, I'm looking up to him. I'm looking up sh um I think uh first of all the most amazing thing about like um music or creative stuff is that you're always around young people and those young people will make you younger, like it's crazy, it sounds crazy, but it is like that. If I look to other people who have been the pioneers of this music, they still do this and they're like 60 something, you know what I mean? And I think most of them look way younger than this, you know what I mean? So I think it's something which is connected to to Art and being around with um young people who are interested in art and sharing the passion with them, like this keeps you young, and this is a really nice part of it. Like I think also doing what you love keeps you young. I think like doing something that you don't like will make you wrinkles in two days.

Yeah. So what else are you working on right now and what do you have coming up? Um, and another add add-on is would you ever do solo work?

I mean, one big thing that we are working on since years and now we really introduced it a few months ago, it's like our AV show. Like we are combining now like the the visual aspect with like our live show, and we have like a own visual show to our life, new album and our new live set which is structured around the new album, and we even try to do maybe in the future like some exhibitions and go more in the visual side to to combine those two things. Yeah, we have a lot of ideas about that. Great. So we have like the plan to in of just go into a club, play DJ set and just go, you know, we have the plan to take a few places and like really put work into this and really you know, because at some point we we've been going to clubs for like 10 15 years now and we've been like going to exhibitions for 10 15 years now and we've been watched and witnessed so many things and um yeah, we want to add our puzzle.

Yeah, yeah. Cuz you're you're mostly playing live now anyways, right?

Um, now we play live more uh again, we had a time where we would play 95% live, um, but at some point the the time didn't feel right anymore, there was not so much appreciation for it anymore, especially also from promoters and anything, you know, you would just get like a festival booking between two artists that would give a about what you play and um so we kind of like yeah, DJ sets are just more adaptable um in a way, and also we want to kind of keep it special, you know, like yeah, I think a live set should be something should be something special. I think 100%, but but we also recognize that it's super important to still play those and keep pushing it because it's inspiring new people, and the only reason why we do it is because we saw other people doing it and we were like, "Wow, that's cool, let's do the same." Like yeah.

Um, yeah, wait, the live set you not do it for the full room, the live set you will play for like the 50 extracted people out there that you don't even see because they probably don't even dance or like film or whatever, that just going to be like maybe one is in the corner just like, "Damn, man, this the way they use the NPC is this is fire," or like, "I love the delays feedbacks that come from the modular system," whatever, you know, but like do you do this for the few nerds?

Yeah. Where do you hope to see yourselves in 15 more years? Will you still be F?

So we're going to be on Mars, that's for sure. Planet Earth going to be burned by then. Um, yeah, like no, I think I think that actually everything's going to be the same. Also, we won't age anymore because like you know, AI is going to happen, so I mean, do you know Brian Johnson from?

Yeah, yeah. Like that's crazy, but no, that's that's that's some hor, that's kind of horrific I think, like like to me like a little bit spooky. We're not looking at this, but now I think that maybe um er and we going to be like full-grown cyborgs and doing crazy uh IDM asset on Mars. That's but but the question is where we want to see us or how we guess the future will run, like I don't know either. But where you want to see yourself? Okay, I I want to see myself still in the same clubs, I hope, like maybe new clubs who are similar to those clubs, maybe something completely new, but I mean, it would be amazing if we still with people around and dancing and making music. Yeah, it would be fantastic if everything would be the same and it's not 10 degrees hotter, we would be extremely thankful. Yes. Okay, cool. Well, I think that's pretty much I don't know, is there something you want to talk about that I haven't? I I I mean, was a little bit like me and during so maybe one more thing that I would add to to um in 15 years, I I think when we started also electronic music had like one big message and it was like one word, One unity, and everything was about the hope that everything is more like connecting together, globalization and everything, and now we run a little bit back from that and disconnecting and having more hate in the world again, and I think it's important to be aware of like how important music is for like everything for the whole society and world and future. There's one thing that I want to add, um, because it made me think about um what we do a lot, so we coming from a time where scenes been more local because internet wasn't playing a big role, so stuff would really develop inside a small circus, and the influence that people had on each other, especially in a small distance, was way bigger. Like now we have this like the local scen don't exist anymore because we have like a global scene like because everybody can see anything within 50 minutes, somebody records a video and it's in the feet like 50 minutes later, so the exchange like the network became way faster, way more interactive and way different, and I think it's important to go back and focus on your local scenes and think about who's around you and what's important to you, what's important to them. Hello FL, thank you U. Well, Aaron, Felix, been great chatting, meeting you and um yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Thank you. Than