New Breeder On The Block All-Stars Of 2025 (LIVE)

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T - 30 seconds [music] TUS 20 seconds [music] [music] 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 [music] One 0. Trap Talk Reptile Network. The coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 715. But this is the 2025 new Breed on the Block All-Star episode. What a lineup. What a year. Um, your boy MJ. What is good? I'm so excited for tonight. Lots to learn from everybody on tonight's show. Uh, we hand selected each and every one of these individuals. Uh, obviously on purpose because we feel like these dudes are definitely the most up and coming in the ball python game. So, GET READY TO LEARN, DUDE. All right. Smash that like button. Hit that subscribe button. Hit that notification bell. Select all or I WILL GET BIGGIE OR COACH ALL UP ON YOU. You know what I'm saying? What's good? What up?

>> What a year, dude. It's already over.

>> Excited, man. I like to geek out with these these uh episodes uh with great people.

>> Yeah.

>> Talk about the full year of production, the stuff that was uh the cutting edge stuff that was made in the game, you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. What's cool about the people we picked, too, they're all grinding in different levels of the game. Um which I'm going to break down obviously tonight. You know, one one person that stands out is Matt from Still City, who I saw at big shows this year, bro. Just having [clears throat] a great time, bro. Not having a frown on his face and literally putting in work and having the production behind it. And then also with Matt too, bro, you want to talk about a [ __ ] a beast. But when it comes to vending, dude, Matt killed it this year when it comes to that on top of productions. And honestly, when it comes to the paint game and [ __ ] like that, dude, this the homie Tyler smashing it with some genetics, dude. So, what a what a what an all-star lineup this year.

>> Yeah. No pretenders here. [laughter]

>> [ __ ] dude. Are you kidding me?

>> I'm an [ __ ]

>> I know we don't charge to watch this show, but I would want to give people money if they if you were pretending right now. This is this is terrible, bro. You No, these are real players in the game and and very very uh locked into what we have going on, the future of the game. And and I got to say, if you're really tapped into the ball pythons, you know, it's one of the most exciting times to be a part of the ball pythons because there ain't there ain't [ __ ] that we haven't seen coming right now. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, dude. Again, but it trips me out that 2025 is gone.

>> Yeah.

>> Is this a thing when you get older? Do they do they keep flying by like that or something? Like is that an is that a getting older thing, bro? Because I feel like these years are just gone now. Like I I look around I go, "What the [ __ ] happened to 2025?"

>> Yeah. I mean, time goes quick. I guess when you're young, you don't see it because you're just you're waiting for everything to come to you, right?

>> That's true. Yeah.

>> I don't know. It's it's it's hard to compare really. And people people like us who don't stop on a day-to-day basis. I think that's also probably why we're just always going into the next day. Um and we don't really sit around count the days. Just next you know you look around the year's over.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But dude, what a great year, man. Uh but you know, as much as 2025 was amazing, I can't wait to talk to these guys about 2026 and 27 and 28. Uh because that's the meat and potatoes. You know, whatever happened this year, congrats. But honestly, it doesn't matter anymore. Seriously, even my 70s for 70. That's cute, dude. Moving on onto the next year. And that's how it rolls. You know what I mean?

>> 100%.

>> Yeah, dude. Uh, but listen, I'm excited for tonight. Um, overall, man, I got to ask you like what was your reasoning picking some of the people that we picked tonight?

>> Uh, well, uh, Matt [clears throat] does this full-time and he's grinding, is making it happen.

>> New father.

>> New father. Uh, taking the risk of, uh, doing this for a living. Um,

>> Steel City, uh, we both love Exantic. The guy's the guy's heavy in the game. He's been doing this a long time.

>> Uh, is making amazing combos. And, uh, Tyler, you know, amazing animals, bro. The Mandarin game. Um,

>> a lot he's got a lot of amazing stuff coming. So, great, great guy.

>> Yeah, man. So, you guys in for a treat, like I said, and please hit that like button. And just to remind you guys, Monday through Sunday, you'll find a brand new episode right here on the network. So again, if you want to listen to any of these episodes on the major audio platforms such as Buzzrout, Apple Podcast, Spotify, go listen. Go after it, man. So many episodes over there. And I appreciate all the love support. If you want exclusive content, if you want to support what I have going on even further or just get more behind the scenes, get some 411 on what the network's all about and where I'm headed, um, then please come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. You can simply do that by clicking the first link in the description below. Soon as you join the Patreon family, connect to a Discord and an awesome Instagram group chat connects you with some of the best keepers in the game. And I don't I don't say that lightly, okay? My Patreon members are my heart. A lot of great people in this hobby, and uh they're part of that trap family. So, thank you so much. Shout out to tonight's sponsor, Prague Morphs over in Europe. Some of my favorite ball python projects are coming out of this uh out of Prague right here. Okay, I got to tell you right now, Prague Morphs on Instagram and also YouTube. Make sure you go subscribe. um go to their website progorphs.com and just tap in. Man, I'm telling you right now, next level ball python projects all the way coming from Europe. And uh shout out to Devon and Terza. Thank you so much for the support. Also, tonight's episode, All-Star episode is brought to you by Clutch, number one ball python organization app in the game. Um please, if you are not sure, I would definitely go try it out free for 30 days. See if it fits your needs because it has to, man. Organization is everything in this game and it looks good and you want to look good. We'll talk about that tonight with some of the boys. But anyways, thank you so much, Sebastian. Thank you, Justin. Uh, the entire Clutch team, you guys are killing it. A lot of great announcements coming from Clutch, so be ready. Also, tonight's episode is brought to you by Mark Bailey Reptiles. Head over to Morph Market. Type in Mark Bailey Reptiles on Morph Market. See what he has available. If you want to talk about OG OGs of the game, this is him, man. In my heart is the goat. He's the greatest ever. Do it. I feel like he's he's he's my mentor. He's helped me out so much. And definitely one of the best people I've ever met in life, Mark Bailey. So, thank you so Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. And of course, Big E, take it from here, buddy. January 10th and 11th. Give it away.

>> LET'S [ __ ] GO. [laughter] I CAN'T WAIT.

>> I can't wait. Uh, the Reptile is The Reptile Super Show is exactly that, super. Uh, it's the way we kick off our year every year now.

>> Yes.

>> Uh, there's nothing like it. It's the biggest reptile show I I'd say out there, aside from Tinley, when Tinley's packed. Um,

>> when Tinley's packed. [laughter]

>> [snorts]

>> Sorry, I didn't mean to stop you, but continue.

>> That was me. That was me. Sorry. You know, that was me. Uh, yeah, man. Ramy is a killer, guys. Amazing. I love I love uh, you know, vending the Reptile Super Show. So, we'll be there.

>> All right, man. Cannot wait. Again, January 10th and 11th, guys. Go to the reptilesup show.com and head over to Instagram. Be on top of any updates. You can book your hotels through the website as well. All right. So, cannot wait. Big E, I don't want to waste any time, man. Let's bring these allstars on. You ready or what?

>> Let's do it.

>> Let's do this. All right. This is the 2025 new breed on the block Allstars. K&B Reptiles, Steel City, Painted Reptiles, Painted Scales Reptiles coming at you right now. Let's go.

>> Good.

>> You ready for do more in the future trap talk podcastes?

>> Yes,

>> man. only trap talk exclusive

>> exclusive

>> so stop calling us [laughter]

>> when I come up with the love it love it or not I'm hot from the hop to the spot [music] get the club the pop when I come up the spot get the club when I come up the spot [music] get the club when I come up the spot get the club when I come Everybody, [music] we do it. Everybody, [music] we do it. [music] Do it. Do it. [music] Do it [music] spot. [music] Get the club when I come up. Spot the [music] club when I come up. Get the pop when I come up. And we're live and I present you 2025 new on the Block Allstars. What's up, gentlemen? Welcome to the show. Welcome back, I should say.

>> What's going on, guys?

>> What's going on? [clears throat]

>> So, uh, what's going on, guys? Let's not be awkward about this. You guys are all star. All right, so be happy. The [ __ ] I got

>> Yes. So, I'll take that. I got jackets coming all your guys' homes, so be ready. All right, [laughter] man. What's going on? Listen, uh I want to start with Matt. Matt, what's good, buddy? You've been grinding, dude. Um how many shows you do this year? I feel like I saw you at least two or three shows this year that I traveled to at least. Um yeah, how did the show scene? How many shows did you do this year?

>> Talking to me, Matt?

>> No, be fun.

>> No. [laughter] Yeah. No [ __ ] Huh? [ __ ] Still city, Matt. We'll go with Still City in that Matt KB. K. Yeah. No, we'll call Still City and KMBB. So, Still City, start with you, buddy. How many, uh, how many shows you vending this year?

>> Uh, I've been doing Bob's show, uh, Tinley, and then I just do the local show every month. So,

>> Okay. So, it was Bob's Taw.

>> What's up?

>> It was at Bob's and Tinley. I I saw you at

>> Yeah. Yep.

>> Dang, man. And how'd it go? You feel like what was different with the show scene, I would say, maybe this year compared to next last year? Um, I think this this uh October Tinley was a little slower than usual, but it was still a ton of fun. Um, definitely some guys making some money. Um, just seemed like the foot traffic was down a little bit. Um,

>> yeah,

>> I really like Bob show. I love the venue. I love the hotel. I love the area that it's at. Um, so both of those, um, shows are definitely my favorites. Um, and then, you know, my local show. I hang out there. You know, everybody I know from, you know, around here. So, that's a lot of fun, too. But what's a lot of

>> Yeah. What's pressure like right now on you when it comes to like vending like you know as far as overhead and stuff like that? Is that is that very important to you? Like when it comes to you having to make sales at a show?

>> Um I don't know. I mean I I do a lot of sales outside of the shows too. I have a lot of customers that return for you know um more animals. So

>> yeah. Um, I have people that message me all the time, you know, hey, I'm, you know, looking to get into this project, or hey, I'm looking for some more animals in the project or whatever.

>> Um, so I sell a lot that way, too.

>> Yeah. And then the local show is good for the byproduct. I can sell a lot there, you know.

>> Badass K&B, man. What's up with you, man? How how' the show scene go for you this year? I mean, were you hitting it pretty hard?

>> Yeah, I hit it pretty hard this year, uh, since I did go full-time in the spring. Uh, normally I would do four or five like weekl long weekend shows. Uh, and this year I added in some of the the local shows and like what Matt said, it's the best place to move all that stuff that's under $3, $400. And so I've got one that's 20 minutes away and I've got another one that's about an hour and a half away. I set up at those every month and that just keeps that nice constant cash flow coming in and then whenever I sell those nice breeder level animals that just feels like a like a win on its own

>> but shows have been good. [clears throat]

>> So I'm sure you're very selective to what you bring depending what show you're vendetting at, right? Like all that all that matters you're saying.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not bringing the high-end puzzle combos to my local show. It's just going to I'm taking it out for no reason. People are going to look at it say, "Wow, $3,000." And then they're going to walk on by, [snorts]

>> right? [laughter]

>> Um, and

>> go ahead, Matt. I was going to ask you, you know, when it comes to being selective to what you bring to a show that you're vending, how do you work that?

>> I typically bring most of the more budget pet friendly stuff to the local shows. And I'll usually have like one level of one display case where I have some really nice stuff that attracts a lot of attention. It'll bring people to the table, right? So, I got to tell uh at one show, there's probably like three dozen people that ask me, "Why is that snake, you know, $30,000?" You know, and it's like,

>> you know, you explain it over and over again. I almost want to print out little cards I could give to people. But, um, but it's fun. You know, people kind of, you know, get to learn a little bit about the genetics and and it it sometimes gets people to try to start working a project because they do want to make that snake.

>> So, that'll help sometimes sell some of the the ingredients, you know, for that project. So, I'm Yeah, I'm let me throw something in right now with that because like if it comes to sales, you know, a lot of the stuff that you guys see that you do seems to be repetitive, but when you're talking to someone who's asking about a $30,000 snake and has no idea why, dude, what you say to them could get them [ __ ] into the project. Like, you don't know who you're talking to out there first and foremost. A lot, you know, you don't ever judge off what someone looks like. I've learned that the hard way multiple times, dude. Trust me, some of these [ __ ] got stupid money out there. They just don't show it. But also like carrying that passion on why you have a $30,000 animal on your on your table. Regardless who you're talking to, you should always be excited to break that [ __ ] narrative down on why that snake is 30,000 because you just might open some [ __ ] doors in people's minds and be like, "Well, I had no idea this [ __ ] even got to this level." And it does as we all know, right?

>> Yeah. And I'm always straightforward with people about like the amount of time it takes to get up to that level as well because I don't want people to have the wrong impression that they can spend, you know, a couple thousand dollars on the ingredients and then, you know, a year or two down the road they're going to [clears throat] have it. I mean, you know, it it does, you know, take a little while sometimes to hit some of these. So, I try to make sure that everybody understands that, too.

>> Yeah. Um, Tyler, what's going on, buddy?

>> Nothing much. Just hanging out. Excited to be here tonight.

>> Yeah, man. Well, guess what? You earned it, bro. For sure. Um, you know, you you had a lot of awesome stuff go down for you as far as production this year. Um, you know, overall, how do you feel like this year went?

>> This was uh the best year yet so far in the ball python game for us.

>> All right.

>> We produced 39 clutches, which was a little bit higher than we were expecting to at 35. Um, it ended up being about 220 animals total that we produced. So,

>> it's been awesome. It's been awesome. Sales have been great. We're really fortunate not to have to go out and vend yet. Um, we do all of our sales online and through repeat customers that we're very fortunate to have. And

>> yeah,

>> able to also have some wholesale outlets here locally, which has been great. Um, something that's really important is when you produce 39 clutches, you're going to have some wholesale babies [clears throat]

>> that you need to have an outlet for.

>> Definitely. I mean, and we talk about that all the time, like, you know, it's cool if you're if you have the space, but where do you go when you have a bunch of [ __ ] snakes you don't want? You know what I mean? Especially when you're Yeah. Especially when you're a busy guy. And you gota admit most people aren't doing this full-time. Most people are doing this as a side thing and they get they get so caught into their their their actual dayto-day where they go and realize how much how many babies they have that they need to sell that they're not selling. And the longer you wait, the more difficult it gets. It's crazy. Normally, you would think an adult would be more like, you know, good on the market. It's not. It's hot babies. It's babies that are [ __ ] powerful. Those are the ones that are moving right now, you know.

>> Exactly. Really, I mean, all of our wholesale outlets, all the pet stores here, they don't want adults. They don't want sub adults.

>> They want the smallest snake possible because for the pet owner, the pet owner really wants to grow with the snake and watch the snake grow and develop and and age. They don't want a snake that's full-sized. It's kind of like, you know, selling a puppy. No, not very many people are looking to buy a full-sized dog.

>> Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Shout out to Bob Vub. Uh, Southeast Reptile Expo January 31st, right? Is that right?

>> Yep. [clears throat]

>> Okay. And you'll be there, Matt. Uh, K&B.

>> Both of us. Yep. We'll both be there.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> This is going to get interesting tonight.

>> All right. Cool. Yeah. Shout out to Bob Vu, uh, also one of the sponsors of of the network. And I wish I could be there in January, Bob, but I will be there on the next one. I swear to God. But dude, you talk about a show that leads by example, man. when it comes to just [ __ ] some of the best people we have in the hobby putting out work. You go to a Southeast Reptile Expo. Telling you right now, dude, that's one thing Bob should be proud about is the people he's gathering. You know what I mean? Because all top notch. And that's what we need. We need somebody who's not going to put a [ __ ] dead looking snake in a deli cup, you know what I mean? Or or something covered in mice or something that can get someone else's snake sick, which is the common thing at at a lot of shows. I hate to say, man. Uh but anyway, shout out to Bob Vu, dude. Speaking of shows, let's get to this topic and then Amina me and me are gonna be going back and forth by the way with topics for you guys. And since we're talking about shows, dude, Tinley was crazy. Um, and I don't mean like attendance-wise, okay? I really don't. And it's and and here's here's let me lay this down to you guys, okay? You guys know I'm no stranger to Tinley. I do a live Friday from the lobby. It's something I've done for five years now. I was all normally when I'm setting up, I can't stop from people talking to me. I'm like, you know, dude, I set up with not one [ __ ] person near me and the next thing you know it's 10:00 and Dave's late and I'm like, where is everybody? Nobody in the lobby. And I got to tell you, about 11 at night is when it started coming in a little bit, but I've never seen a tinling like that. And I also have people kind of saying like that the the uh the vending scene is going to come to an end or it's not going to be the same or something like that. And let's go around the horn. I can't speak on that, but you guys can because you guys are tapped into the vending side. Me and Tyler are gonna have our popcorn and listen to you guys while you guys talk about this. So, uh, let's start with K&B. K&B, what's your opinion on like Tinley not having record-breaking attendance this year and just the vibe being very flat, you know what I mean?

>> Yes. I I wasn't at this one. This is actually the first one that I missed in probably five years. Um, but we just couldn't make it work with the like new baby. Didn't want to make the trip. But I think the big thing right now is people are struggling for money for the most part. And you got to think about just to go to Tinley. You're going to spend $400 on a hotel. You're going to spend $100 on gas. You're going to spend $200 on food. You're probably going to buy something at the show. If you don't have in like just money that you can throw at having a long weekend away, that's it's an expensive weekend. Even if you're just going,

>> dude, it is. It is. Three nights at the hotel is like 800 bucks.

>> I was like,

>> I don't say it that.

>> Yeah. [laughter] I was I was like, "God damn." Like, trust me, I'm like, "Everything else is pretty much taken care of and I don't mind, but like dude, it's expensive just to go and hang out. Like, not even vending and having to, you know, commit to the whole travel thing as far as with all your animals. Just to attend that show is expensive."

>> Yeah.

>> Um, Steel City. I'm wondering if the attendance at Tinley had anything to do with the fact that the uh Ed and Emily effect wasn't in full force with, you [snorts] know, how they usually do their setup in the front. Um, I think they just wanted to enjoy, they went to the show, but I think they just wanted to enjoy walking around

>> and, you know, actually experiencing the show instead of standing, you know, out front the whole time. But I wonder if since they didn't have that, you know, there's a lot of people that come specifically to see them and they go with the theme that they set and that wasn't there this time and that may or may not have something to do with it. I don't know,

>> but I kind of felt like maybe it did.

>> Definitely.

>> This was the only Tinley where I didn't have to leave at 10 a.m. and go back to my room because it got so [ __ ] insanely packed in there. Like you it Tinley gets to the point where it's unenjoyable. Like it's like, "All right, I'm [ __ ] out of here." You There's just people I just don't want to rub myself against. You know what I mean? So, and I and somebody always gets sick. I feel like on the way back from a Tinley and I just always mindful of that. This Tinley, bro, it was I don't want to say it was great because I almost want to pack Tinley. I want I want to see a bunch of people, but dude, I was there the whole [ __ ] time. Like like I could sprint through the [ __ ] goddamn hallways, bro. Like, it was through through the aisles. I mean, like, it was that crazy. Um, but here's the thing, dude. I still saw I still saw people selling snakes, okay? I still saw people [ __ ] making hella [ __ ] money. Okay, I saw I saw at least one or two $20,000 transactions. U which is a typical thing I saw at a packed Tinley. So, um I don't think you know sales, even though maybe not everyone sold, there were still people selling snakes at a Tinley. People still go to buy snakes at a Tinley. You know what I mean?

>> The big buyers are going to be at Tinley. You might have overall lower traffic like with the snake discovery thing, but those people aren't the ones that are going to be buying the high-end stuff. the high-end stuff probably still move at the same rate that it normally does.

>> Yeah. And also remind you that the Ed and Emily people don't kick it in the in the lobby at night. They're not there. So that was dead, too. So it, you know, I felt like what kept it um from being so goddamn claustrophobic in shoulderto-shoulder was because there was no snake discovery. But then also there was a lot of people missing from our side, like people from the breeding side of things, which again, it makes sense now that we talk about it. People are going to be a lot more frugal with their money right now, you know, especially if they're not going to Tinley to drop cheese. You don't you go you don't go to Tiny to window shop. All right, like especially if you need snakes, you're going to find what you want at Tinley and you're going to you should buy it technically otherwise window shoppers get left behind in this hobby. It's unfortunate. Um but yeah, I don't know. Big E, what's your take on the whole e on the whole on the whole uh show scene? you know the the kind of the the noise in the background saying it's going to be a dead scene at some points things are like that what do you what do you think

>> never um I don't agree with that things have to evolve and change people have to change tactics this is simple for me right uh we have contracted a bit in the investment side um a bit I said um people aren't spending like they were a little bit they're holding back they're working what they have on hands. An a show like Tinley has to evolve and has to look to advertise to get more people through the door. They got used to just living off the name, living off of the investment side. They have to do what they used to do with Emily. They have to advertise. They have to

>> My bad. Sorry. They have to try different things in in a you know in a situation where uh people are not spending the way they were in 21 22 23 and even 24. So um it's sad to say that some people messaged me and told me there was maybe 6,000 people through the door. That's unacceptable for an NBC. If they continue to do that, they're sinking because guys like Bob Vu, guys like, you know, Ryan at Reptilian Nation, they're spending hella money to get people to the door. Now, yes, it's not

>> it's not an investment show, but we need to build that next investor.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah,

>> that that's that's how I look at things. I need people as as a vendor, I need asses through the door.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, for sure. That's what you need. Foot traffic. Period.

>> Yeah.

>> Which which again, Reptile Super Shows, nothing gets more foot traffic than a Reptile Super Show.

>> We need We need to build that next that next layer, that next,

>> you know, that next Matt, that next Matt Steel City, that next Tyler, that next MJ.

>> That's what we need to do.

>> Yeah, totally. Um, dang. I had something I was going to say in relates to what we were talking about. Um, [ __ ]

>> Cuz before you get there, cuz let me tell you guys something. If they don't get their [ __ ] straight,

>> I could see Bob's show turning into that investment show.

>> I [laughter] That already is. It already is though. If you think about

>> I mean getting there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But I'm saying

>> it already is there.

>> Yeah. But you don't see wholesalers really at Bob's show. You see a bunch of investor like people who are tapped into the projects at Bob's show. Yeah. But but what I'm saying is taking over for for good.

>> Yeah. Right. Yeah.

>> And and Tinley becoming [clears throat] like a Daytona. Daytona's fun, bro. Daytona is great,

>> but it's not Tinley, you know?

>> I think Bob should take over Daytona and just have S like those he those be his two shows.

>> That'd be great in a perfect world.

>> Um but yeah, you're right. Um I also feel like this is just a time that we're going through right now. Um we we will get that next layer of vendors who are going to be hitting the scene harder than ever and we will get to a place back to where uh we were at as far as numbers.

>> Go ahead.

>> And then one more thing I I'm really busy but if I would have if I would have myself if I would have if I would have gone with Lette to Tinley I would have spent $2,000 easily just on the trip. 2,000 2,500 plus you have to buy an animal [snorts] the end of the day.

>> I mean you're not gonna go home with nothing. So, you're talking about

>> maybe I don't know a $4,000 weekend

>> if you're lucky.

>> I don't know if I don't know if that show organizer could depend on that right now.

>> Wait, did you get into Bob Vu's van and go to his special places that he goes to at night and [ __ ] spend money with him because that's a that could be a couple thousand or [ __ ] some balling type [ __ ] I've heard. I don't know. I was never in that van, but I've heard. Um, but anyways, hey, one thing I learned this year, guys, and this is great. Um, it's not great to hear that this happened to individuals, but man, there's a notorious person out there who just was Mr. buy one get three free at some point, right? And continue that energy. I heard that person made under $600 at Tinley with all his buy one get two free, all your dude. Putting pathetic prices on animals does [clears throat] not get you the [ __ ] sale. It makes you look [ __ ] pathetic, dude. So, I'm so glad that was an example this year how no matter how bad you butcher your price, and we see some [ __ ] out there get butchered, it still won't sell. Okay? So, and that and and that does you no justice with your projects by doing that. Just so you guys know, anyone out there listening who's stressing about their morph market snake not selling, going down, which people pay attention to, okay? They don't respect it. I mean, what do you guys think about someone who's not knowing or maybe not comfortable pricing their animals? And I mean, am I tripping? Do you guys witness that as well? Do you guys see prices kind of just dropping out of thin air and you're like, "What was what was that all about?" [clears throat] Oh, almost almost like in a case where you're auctioning something off you shouldn't be auctioning off, right?

>> A lot of that is people that just like have too like did too much like we were talking about earlier with people doing like Tyler's got the wholesale outlet for his 39 clutches. If you haven't made those relationships, you don't have somewhere to send those 15% of babies that aren't as valuable that you would put on your table or put on your work market, you're sitting on them. You have to go sell those. That's going to be tough. And if you're sitting on a lot of babies and you're feeding 200 babies a week and you're getting a little bit over your head, you're going to slash prices because you need them gone.

>> Yeah. You're going to panic because that's kind of what it comes down to. you start to see like it's a loss at a certain point and the loss doesn't go away. It gets worse if you're not selling any snakes.

>> I think the the biggest thing is a lot of these people think the only outlet or the only way that they're going to sell snakes is if they lower their price. I think what a lot of people are missing is a lot of people don't do any marketing of their own snakes.

>> Yeah.

>> Um whether it be on Meta or Instagram or, you know, other places, just online. Um, they don't sponsor anything on Morph Market in terms of categories. They don't put their snakes out on their Instagram stories. They don't push what they have produced. They just changed their price on their Morph Market ad that hasn't been updated in six months.

>> Exactly.

>> And I think when you're only using price as the only thing that's going to change whether or not you're going to find somebody to sell your snake, I think you're going to have a really hard time um in a sea of 35,000 available ball pythons. 100%. Um, and I was going to say on top to kind of talk to what you just said, Tyler, you know, you can't just, you know, morph market does great, but you just don't rely on morph market. You can't. It helps. Like, you will sell things you don't expect to sell sometimes on morph market and it comes through in the clutch. Like, that's the beauty thing about morph market. You wake up to an email in the morning, this [ __ ] person wants to send you money and you're like, whoa, sweet. But that's the easy way. That's the easiest way to make a sale. And anything easy isn't always going to be a good result. Like you don't always want the easy sale. You have to attack social media, dude. You have to attack these shows. That's why in a sense, like, you know, people who aren't attending shows and they're they're just coming into the hobby, you're doing yourself a disservice by not showing your face. If you're going to wait five years to start showing your face at shows, you're waiting way too long because people are going to wonder where you've been for five years. Like, who are you? Like one thing Alio for sure could talk about talk on is how the vending show community is different than what you see on social media. Like you'll meet people you wouldn't even know that were even around at a show because so you can't see everything on social media, right Alio?

>> Yeah, 100%.

>> Uh Matt, I'm curious to what you think about the current market just like uh, you know, the other our other two guests mentioned or talked about before I go. Matt, which one? Steel? We're talking steel or canes? [laughter]

>> Yeah. [snorts] I mean, you need to have the right eyes on your animals. So, um, you know, I think that's that's a lot of of, you know, your success is going to be actually having the right eyes on your animals, but also, you know, people auction animals that shouldn't be auctioned sometimes and wonder why they don't do so well. And if it's if it's more on the niche side or or you know there's not going to be a lot of people that are looking at something like that, you shouldn't rush to auction it because that's just going to hurt the price. Um you're better off, you know, if you have customers that have bought similar snakes, you know, and you know, they might want it. you can give your your your existing customers a really good deal privately rather than, you know, try to take a a risk on an auction for something that isn't like, you know, really a mainstream project that a lot of people are working.

>> Um, and then as far as prices crashing just in general, um, it definitely seems like certain projects are experiencing faster declines than others. So that's, you know, partly dependent on, you know, do you choose good projects to get into or do you try to jump on, you know, the bandwagon at the wrong time.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, so that's another thing you gota always try to innovate and try and think of what's going to look good that hasn't been done yet because that way even if somebody beats you to it, you still are like right behind them and you're going to have animals that whenever people realize the potential of a project, you're going to be able to start selling them the ingredients they need.

>> Yeah. I was going to I was going to say one thing on pricing is pricing may pricing may have come down pretty significantly over the last couple years, but if I'm still able to sell an animal to somebody for $500 or more, you know, $1,000, that is a ton of money for an animal that I produced at my house here.

>> It didn't cost me $500 to produce that egg

>> that hatched that animal. And if somebody's willing to give me $500 of their hard-earned money that they spent, you know, hours and hours of of work at to to be able to pay me for an animal, that's not something I'm ever going to be upset with. Um,

>> did DG clowns come down from 10,000 to 5,000 to 2,000 to a,000 to now 500 bucks? Sure. But that's still $500 on an animal that you're producing in house.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And those those those sales add up if you are [ __ ] rocking them out. I'll take a $500 snake snake snake sale all day every day. Are you kidding me?

>> By the way, Tyler, that's that's a great point that MJ always brings up and and we are all very cognizant of that. I agree with you fully.

>> But let me say this to everyone out there watching. You have to be aware of the saturation of certain projects.

>> Okay? You should be working extra recessives into certain things. extra incomplete dominance. Okay. Uh there are nine there last we checked there were 98 spot-nose clowns spot-nose clowns on morph market. Okay. You should not be producing two gene spot-nose clowns. Okay. Those those are examples of what we're talking about. Uh you have to be aware of those things and you have to adjust your production. You have to adjust your breeding program. Nothing that we say or nothing that you do is going to help you if you do not adjust. What do you guys say to that?

>> So, if you make a tornado clown, that's not good, bro. That's a two gene. That's a two gene clown. I'm just saying like I made a lot simple.

>> I made I I made a lay spot-nose clown this year and I'm offended right now that you just said that.

>> No, no. I'm talking about simple widely available stuff. I think

>> everyone knows is massively saturated out there and people are just producing it and putting it on auction. We need to adjust.

>> We need to adjust.

>> I think it has to do with a lot of uh people making byproduct in the Pompei project, right? You're going to get spot-nose yellow belly black belly yellow belly red stripe yellow belly clowns.

>> Uh because you're working with odds and and the problem is people haven't pushed it further than that um than shooting for the Pompei. you're not shooting for the hurricane pompei or the stranger pompei or things like that then can that can differentiate you from the sea of animals that are available like you said there 900 spot-nose clowns but I'd probably say there's [snorts] you know if you add hypo into that how many spotnose hypo clowns are there 10 maybe

>> it's got to be rare it's got to be rare guys it's got to be at least you know in the 20s and 30s you know for you to gain traction out there I mean That's That's what I'm saying, you know.

>> Yeah. And then from what you guys I'm sure you guys saw this year um when there's a lot of attention um controversy or whatever over behind a morph for a project, red flag to you guys or not a red flag? Like do you if you guys see something like that happening, would you instantly get turned off by the project or is that not going to turn you off? Are you going to stay tall on it and see how it works out? Especially if you believe in it. How do you guys feel about projects that are just on the fence? And what I mean by that, there's no snowshed test issues IDing, people not sure, people [ __ ] selling stuff that's not actually what it is first and foremost. So, what do you guys think about projects like that? Whoever wants to go first, doesn't matter.

>> I think it does. I don't know if it depends on what it is. Um, some of it can be a red flag for sure, but most of the time it just kind of perks your ear up a little bit. You're going to keep a closer eye on it. So, like way back when all of the mandarin stuff was going down with all the fake mandarin being sold, I'm seeing real mandarin. I was like, obviously that's an incredible animal. But then I'm also on the other hand seeing mandarins that look like normals, which turned out they were, but that kept me from getting into mandarin for probably a year and a half, two years. And finally got in through it through Tyler now. But I just I it was something that I didn't want to take that chance on when I wasn't a 100% sure because I like to gamble, but I don't like to gamble with high risk.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I'm fine picking up, you know, like mid-range females with a new gene just to start getting them, you know, up to size and then hopefully there's a shed test or there's more, you know, clarity around that project by the time those females are ready to breed. I would typically avoid investing 10 or 15 grand in, you know, a top top-notch male, you know, that's that's got that gene. Um, just until I see, you know, where a project's gone. But, you know, a thousand or two on a female, something like that. Um, not a problem. You know, I I picked up some lace stuff, you know, before we had a test for that when it was still a little bit iffy. I missed on some and I I I got some real lace in there, too. But, um, I'm not upset about that, you know. But if I bought a $10,000 lace male and it wasn't lace and I had already bred it to, you know, 10 females, that's whenever I, you know, I I don't want to do that basically. So I I kind of would avoid to some extent,

>> but still try to get my feet.

>> What I was going to say is I I kind of take took an opposite approach with the Mandarin Project. I really liked the animals that TJ was producing, uh, but at the time his prices were pretty high. Um, so I kind of jumped off the deep up

off into the deep end and uh went to Piet directly in the Netherlands uh and imported a lot of my founding stock. And the big thing that I was going to say is all these controversial projects, I really like a lot of them. Lace, Mandarin, a lot of the high-intensity orange dream stuff. I really like all of those projects because I'm in the business of making beautiful animals. I don't really I don't really care what word we put to what the gene we're seeing is. If the animal's beautiful, I try my best to buy with my eyes and buy the very best example of what I'm looking for.

You know, when I saw the Super Mandarin hypo um that TJ produced or that I uh >> You don't forget a snake like that. [laughter] >> Again, I think it was at the same show you saw it at >> Yeah, it was uh what was it? Dallas or something? It was out of Texas or what was it? >> Was it in Anaheim? >> It was at Anaheim or wasn't it Vegas? I thought it was Vegas. >> Could have been Vegas. >> Could have been Vegas. I think it was in a special show. It was in It was like a weird show. Yeah. I was like, "What the fuck?" And I couldn't I was literally It drew me across the room. Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> But that that kind of animal is an animal that sticks with you. Um, and because of that, you know, I jumped in and I think Justin said it last week or the week before on your podcast, but if you're willing to take a take a leap in, you know, an untapped project or a project that has some risk involved, you you can have some asymmetric upside um and can really, you know, see see big gains um by taking the leap. >> You could. >> Yeah. I mean, you also >> you got to go big to win big. You know what I'm saying? You you you could also buy fake hats, you know. It's [laughter] it is what it is, >> but you also have to put the work behind that animal when you're producing them now, too. You can't just buy two nice animals, put them together, make nice animals, and expect them to sell. You got to be able to >> market them. >> Exactly. >> Generation. It's all about the generation levels of your projects first and foremost because you don't always make the best looking ones the first time go around. You figure out which not to do next time, what where to mess around. Sometimes it takes a couple rating [snorts] years for you to figure out or pinpoint exactly where this project's headed for you, but takes time first and foremost and you just you just never know, man. And this is why a lot of people who've t taken some chances and gone and it's gone their way. It's changed your life. It really has. Um but again, you got like Matt like K&B says, you got to put in the work. You just don't buy the animals and say, "All right, I'm done." No, dude. Like the work begins. Um, and and again too, man, like [clears throat] I feel like some people don't understand like you still have to be good at breeding, right? Like you still have to pay attention. You got to know that your females need more food at a certain point of the year. If you're not paying attention to that type of [ __ ] you're never going to have a good year. I mean, you're always going to miss something that you shouldn't have missed because you weren't paying attention. So, if you're not locked in with paying attention to the feeding issue like that, I recommend you start there first and foremost. Like, that's important. Um, go ahead, me though. You better strategize. >> Yeah. Get to work. >> The breeding. Yeah. I mean, breeding and feeding. Yeah. You need all that, but if you don't have strategy in 2025, good luck.

>> Hey, so Will Moros, right? [ __ ] what a legend. Um, when I had him, well, back when I used to I mean, I still follow the guy, don't get me wrong, but back when I first started following Will and I was just geeked out over all these [ __ ] goddamn crazy haters in the ball python game. I remember there was a story or something where Will had a lawn chair just in front of his racks and and a [ __ ] ton of Bud Lights and like you could tell he was there. You could tell he was there for a long time and he's like, "Yeah, man. I just sit here and I just [ __ ] visualize." And dude, I remember and I was dude I was like 2017 or something [snorts] and and I was like, "Man, I'm doing that someday." Like cuz I just I was at a point where I still had one rack. I had eight snakes and I'm just thinking like, man, well, I want to be like these guys someday. And I was like, if I had a rack, a freedom breeder rack like that full of snakes, I would pull a lawn chair out, too. I told myself I would be one of those guys where I would just sit there and think what I'm going to do with everything. And sure enough, here I am. And I'm I'm one of those [ __ ] guys. I like to sit on the floor. But I smoke a lot of weed and I just think about all the [ __ ] things I want to breed, man. And it's fun. It's the [ __ ] That's how that's where the kid in you comes out because you're sitting thinking about breeding [ __ ] snakes, dude. We're talking about reptiles here. like [ __ ] that we dreamed about as children and here we are living the dream basically. [laughter] You know what I mean? It's the funnest. That's why I don't know why some people aren't having fun. This is the most fun I've ever had in my entire life. It really is. >> Yeah. >> Go ahead, Mio. I feel like I've been hog topics. >> For me now, all I do is sit in the room or sit in front of the computer and and stare at Clutch. [laughter] >> I mean, clutch tags, you know, clutch pairings, grades, that's what I do. And and you're absolutely right. and and what Will told you, that's that's what we do as ball python breeders. We we dream about endless pairing opportunities and and and which way to go. That's what we need to do. Yeah. >> Here we are. Yeah.

So, Amelia, why don't you hit him with one of your topics that you have for tonight and then I'll go after you. >> Well, my my my topic is, you know, what was the most cutting edge animals hit in the game uh in 2025? I have a long list. I asked you guys for some input. Uh, what a crazy crazy year of production. Um, >> off the top of the the dome, you know, I have my list here, but what one animal sticks out the most for each of you? >> I think the the animal that sticks out the most for me might be the same one that sticks out for Steel City. Uh, but it's it's the spot-on yellow belly confusion DGAT clown that Justin had. >> Yep. That's my number one. [laughter] >> Say that. Say that one more time. Uh the the genetics on that one more time. >> Botnos yellow belly confusion. DGxanthic clown. >> KMBB. You agree with that? Is that your number one animal? >> Uh so that was uh my number four on my list that I had to cut off when I sent that to you. Um >> I love that animal, but I've just like I've got puzzle on the brain. So that's where I I tend to lie. The stuff that Prague is making with the hurricane puzzles really has my attention. Uh, a lot of the stuff that Barry's making, that cypress spot-nose puzzle was awesome. >> Yeah. Um, let me tell later on we're going to do a a countdown and we're going to knock some stuff off the list. I have to tell you guys with everything I went through and what I went through with you guys, the the top two uh projects out there undeniably are DJ Exantic Clown and Hypo Puzzle Stuff. I have to tell you the whole list is is banging with stuff. So you guys aren't wrong. But I have to say Matt K and B it's three to one and maybe four to one with MJ. I think I think that that animal that Canova hit, I think that's the best snake ever made. I And hey, we could have respectfully disagree. It's all good. But holy crap, man. Like, let me tell you something. Being an axanthic guy, you know, I know Steel City is too. Holy [ __ ] When I saw that animal, it looks fake. It looks painted. It This is what we do this for, man. >> It is incredible. Like, how does it get better? What's are we What'sere were you talking about the spot nose confusion? Exantic DG clown. >> Yes. Spotnose yellow belly confusion. DJ Exantic clown. That [ __ ] that thing is >> Well, here's the thing. Like I think Exantic needs to be in its own category cuz it's it's [ __ ] out of this world first and foremost. And we have there's so much of it we haven't seen yet, but it's nothing like stuff in color. It's completely different. It's >> that thing looks fake. >> It doesn't look real. Yeah. And I think >> I mean just look at the contrast. It's it's white and black. I mean, it's gorgeous. the pattern. >> Yeah. And that's why stuff like this is going crazy in Japan and Asia. Like they like the [ __ ] fake looking [ __ ] That's what they want. This [ __ ] is up there. And Exantic, man, that's Dude, we still haven't It hasn't blown up yet. It still hasn't gotten to that point where all the true ghost [ __ ] is hitting. That That's going to be a crazy year. How far how far do you think we are from that guys? Like when when do you think we're going to see some insane exantic [ __ ] How far? >> I mean, we're there, but it's going to only it's only going to get better. It's going to get crazier. We know that. >> Better. >> Well, people started buying back into Xanthic because everybody saw, oh [ __ ] DG works really well with this and hypo works really well with this. So, people were sitting on their Xanthic stuff, but then they weren't excited about it because it does dull out if you don't have other genes in it. But then once you just put in either DG or hypo or both, you've got phenomenal looking animals into adulthood. So now everybody's buying back into exic. And I mean, it'll probably we're obviously seeing it now, but another two, three years once people have their production rolling, we're going to see some crazy exantic stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I have a lot of ingredients already raising up. So, there's a lot of stuff that I know at least I'll be producing in the coming, you know, year or two years from now. I know Amelia's got a lot of stuff, too. >> Yeah, I'm I'm a little behind, but it's all good. I'm I'm I'm there. I'll be there. Um, let me say this, man. The big dog picked up that quad. Holy [ __ ] Like, bro, >> me and me and Steel City, we talked about that animal. I was actually really impressed. It was a little better than another one that we saw hit. Well, it was well, it might not have been a quad, but uh this one blew away the other TG clown that we saw. Uh man, I'm so happy for Justin that that to bring that animal from Taiwan. That that was huge. Um, again, I am super excited to be deep into the Exantic project and u me and Matt Steel City got into that when no one gave a [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> You know, so [snorts] >> foresight. >> Yeah. >> You could get aanthic adult females for 200 bucks precoid. >> Yeah. >> I mean, you know, nobody wanted, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> But it's changed a lot since the production of that one animal, you know. >> Yeah. Um, >> yeah, >> guys, how about this? I'm going to throw this at you. Um, hottest >> newer project for you guys, and you could get into the details. Uh, Tornado, Bambino, and Cosmos. Which one would you hands down invest in right now if you had the capital to get into it? >> Tornado. No question. >> Yeah, Tornado. It's recessive. It's, you know, definitely different from everything else. It's going to hold longer. >> I actually like it better, too. Um, >> yeah, >> that's my favorite one. I can't wait to see a tornado puzzle myself. Um, that I'm in love with that with that uh project. I think it's it's the the most different uh of anything we've had since Monsoon. >> I didn't hear Tyler. Tyler, what' you say? >> It's a hard one. I'm uh not really planning on getting into any of the three genes to to be honest in any uh near future. But if I had to pick one, I'd probably uh go with Tornado. Again, kind of with what Steel City said. It's a recessive project. It's kind of the safer option. Uh but I think a lot of these super gran, you know, things like that are are pretty similar. The Bambino, Cosmos, all that kind of looks pretty similar when you start getting into combos. >> Actually, hold on. Let's time out right there, buddy. Okay. [clears throat] Um Cosmos is we're going to see what happens with Cosmos. Um because >> a quarter of them look really good. >> Say say that again. >> A quarter of them look really good. [laughter] >> 2 22% bro. We're under a quarter I think. Um >> 22.5% look really really good. >> But again kind of going back to things right like you know that have some sort of red flags behind them. Um and and there's I'm not saying Cosmo is a confirmed red flag right now. We don't know yet. But there is a lot of talk in behind the scenes right now going with that. But that right there, do you feel like is probably going to keep people from buying at this point for right now? You think? Or what was that? Um, anyways, but what do you guys what do you guys overall think of Cosmos? I'll be right back. >> I think Cosmos is a great gene. Um, I just am working not necessarily towards the the super granite look in a lot of my projects and I have a small enough collection that I I don't have space or time to to work every project there is. I think it's a great gene. I think it's a very expensive gene, expensive mutation right now to get into. Um, but I think that anybody who gets in is going to be able to produce amazing looking animals, at least in the clown project. Um, from what I've seen, I can't wait to see a DGATIC. Uh, Cosmos clown. I saw the Cosmos DG clown from Justin and it's awesome. Um, it's a great looking animal. >> Yeah, they they look phenomenal. There's no denying that. It's that it's just goes back to another thing where you kind of just keep an eye out on it now that there's talk of you don't know exactly what's going on. So, you're going to watch it a little bit closer. But even then, the barrier to entry is so high right now that there's only going to be select few that are that are getting into it. >> Yeah. I mean, my Huh? >> Go ahead. >> Oh, uh, my concern would be if it's actually potentially a two gene combo, then, you know, are there other, you know, two gene combo granite genes that you can combine that would look even better than that cosmos look? you know, um, if if the, let's say you pick one of the two genes and call that the cosmos and name the other genes something else, those, you know, ones that aren't, you know, the the 25% right now, just that on its own, I don't think is nicer than many of the other much more affordable granite genes out there right now. So if you take, you know, one of the, you know, other, you know, genes and add that on top of whatever makes the cosmos look better, would it make that look even better than the Cosmos? I don't know. I would be, you know, a little on the fence about dumping a lot of money into that project right now. I'm not saying it's bad. They look amazing. You can't argue with that. I just, you know, if it takes two jeans to achieve the look, you know, could you get a better look with, you know, maybe one of those jeans and another gene or two other jeans entirely um, you know, for for a lot less money? Um so that's that's what would probably keep me on the fence um about buying in. But if I had already bought into Cosmos, I would be working it, you know, just as hard as ever because I would be trying to figure out what it takes, you know, to try and figure it out, you know, trying to figure out whether it's one gene that's very low or high expression at times or whether it's two genes and you could isolate them and mix them differently with other Yeah. projects. Um, so I think there's still a lot of work to be done to figure out what's actually going on and you know, it's just an unknown at the moment. >> Yeah, much like we said with Justin, I I need more information. I need more banger animals to be produced. I need I need to see more uh >> you know I trust but verify >> you know >> like Ronald Reagan used to say um >> it's simple >> you know trust but verified right >> hey loves his history just so you guys know >> I mean yeah man you know I'm not I'm not just gonna listen to someone what they say or their word I need to see it [ __ ] needs to make me excited you know >> I was going to say with the granite jeans there's been So many different granite jeans. We got pixel, we have cosmos, bambino. Granite was just a gene. They just called it granite for a long time. >> And we have like super voodoo looks awesome. >> Um, so I think the biggest thing is you pick one and you work it really hard. Uh, >> and make the best animals you possibly can with with whatever you choose. >> I think, you know, maybe we'll get even crazier granite type animals if we start mixing them together. But but the big thing is, you know, I think a super voodoo clown combo is pretty awesome looking um in itself and it's a tenth of the money that Ralph is asking for a Cosmos clown, >> right? Yep. And I'm looking at travel personally and it looks just as good as any of these other granite jeans in my opinion. I mean, you get some lower expression ones here and there, but like the majority of the stuff I've been hatching out this past year, I mean, it looks just as good to me. I mean, I I'm biased, but it's it's so much more budget level right now than a lot of these other ones. I just don't see paying that much extra at this point to get the big names whenever the visual effect is there for a lot less. >> And then we also have that other gene they're calling Malice. >> I like that one a lot, too. >> That's nice. >> Yep. I saw that at Tinley. That looks good, too. >> Where that where that where did Malice come from? I I feel like that name kind of just came out of thin air. Also, >> Morph Minded has been working it for a long time. Ash >> and Ash has posted, interesting enough, it's a very similar gene to Cosmos and he posted that there's quote unquote three strains is what he's calling it. So there's like one expression, a second expression, and a third expression that he has. >> Sounds like what we're we're saying >> with Cosmos. It's different expressions. Yeah. >> Damn. See, again, dicey dicey, dude. This is crazy. The more we think about it and the more we kind of dig through layers, you see other versions of everything almost. I feel like it's, you know, but it all lands on like I don't know, man. This is why how much more is how much is hype helping with things here, you know, when it comes to projects. Feel like hype matters a lot, you know, especially when stuff is highriced for so long because we know anything that's super high priced is going to come down, but you know, the way it comes down matters. I feel like I feel like grad like the way DG clown [ __ ] came down even though we had that one person just [ __ ] flooding the market with 50% off [ __ ] at that one point. It still came down respectfully the way it should have. You know, it didn't just [ __ ] tank. And I feel like the ones that just tank, which I hope it's not Cosmos, but right now it's looking like it, dude. Until we to get more answers, that whole [ __ ] crazy, you know, $20,000 snake is not going to be 20K for sure. It's already down. I heard I already came down to like closer to 10 if I'm not mistaken. I don't know. I haven't looked at >> I was going to say at each price level that it comes down from 20k to 10k to 7k to 5k to 2500 you'll have more and more and more buyers because there's just simply more and more people willing to pay that willing to gamble with with that much money. Um but what I was going to say is at least you know it's not 65,000 like the banana was. Um, you know, people buying into banana at 65,000 the next year when it was 20,000 are probably having a little bit of a scare when they bought a female that they're still raising. >> Yeah, >> Tyler. Um, something we don't do, >> you know. Um, I like to adjust numbers for inflation. When was the banana that much? It was 2010, 2011, >> maybe even before that. >> Okay. So, someone >> It would have been like a 100. It' be like a hundred grand. >> Yeah. Yeah. We I would want someone in the chat to give me a a number adjusted for inflation because I I find that fascinating. >> Dude, I'll have to look back. I started breeding bananas when they were 25,000, but they went down to five within like not even a year of of that. And then they were down to a thousand really quick too by by the following year. I mean, it's because so many males were produced though. Um, I think that that had a little bit of a different scenario because of how many males were produced because they had male makers making more males, making more males. It was definitely not a normal >> [snorts] >> uh decline like you would see in most, you know, genes >> for sure. The the sex linking in banana definitely >> Yeah. >> made it even crazier. But back in the day, I mean, I think Brian Barek brought in a pinstripe for for 50 grand in Africa. It's like people were spending crazy money in like the late 90s on spider pinstripe pastel with like grazani pastel and things like that. Like those animals are like revolutionizing the ball python world. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Everybody cared about the line of pastel. [laughter] >> But again, man, these are eras we'll never see again. We'll never see a pied era, a banana era. You know what I mean? It's still going to happen in a sense, but just 2026 happening, not [ __ ] we don't know what the hell we're looking at type [ __ ] because we kind of know at this point. We're all well vetted into the game where we know how high-end stuff works. Um, but for me, man, dude, if I'm if and this it goes back to whoever said that point, buy with your eyes. I think that was still city who said that. But dude, if you just buy with what you like, you know, and if your heart tells you it's worth that 30,000 and you visualize it and if you got it, dude, go for it. You know what I mean? But put in the work, you know, goes hand in hand. And also social media, put in the work. You know, people got to know that you're working that tornado project. It's very important. >> A $50,000 banana in 2010 is 75K now. >> That's nuts. That That's a That's a big huge >> That's a big price tag on a on an incomplete dominant mutation. >> And before that, Mccurly was selling the uh bumblebees for 65,000. What name? I don't even remember what year that was. >> Yeah. And what about what about Pete calls pides? Okay. I I heard stories that I heard the stories that this guy would only put so many pides on the table and he would just once once sold for 30k he would just put another one and another one and like he would only keep one on the table and that one would sell and he kept busting out more. I don't know. I don't know the inventory count on that but imagine how much money in that one day that guy Pete called >> beast. I mean, bro, they talk about stories from Daytona when I was like a little kid of people like leaving with duffel bags full of cash. >> Yeah, >> Mark Bailey is one of those people, bro. Mark Bailey, tonight's sponsor. He was one of those individuals leaving the show with $100,000 in cash in Adidas duffel bag. He told me, >> dude, >> he told me, okay, hold on. He would tell me he would be so scared like who's following him? I'm like, dude, I would be too, you know, [ __ ] But I heard, bro, honestly, I heard people used to like like ghetto [ __ ] would kind of like be tip tipped about who's making money and would be watched. I forgot. I think it was the bells or something. They had to they had to they had to hire the [ __ ] um >> Yeah, the security guards that take the money to the bank. They had to hire those people to come to walk them through their vehicles, dude. Nuts. >> Hey, listen. In 21 they were still doing that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But let me say this. there. Like there's some old cats back in the day where they would joke that they would do $20,000 the first day at the show and then spend 10,000 at the strip club. >> Yeah. >> You know, 15,000 at the strip club and just go home with even more snakes than what they came with. It's [ __ ] crazy. >> Yeah. Old days. Wild. >> Yeah. We got to work a little harder to sell snakes now. >> And that's just the way the world works. You know what I mean? But listen, before we get to the next topic, we got to get to commercial break. Okay, guys. So, do me a favor. Hang tight. Hit that like button. Be right back after a quick commercial break.

>> Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. >> Hi, I'm Deon. >> I'm Pereza. And we are Prague Motors. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe. >> We really love animals that revolve around multi-reessive projects. And one of our very favorites is Hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season, and some of those are Hypo Clown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle. >> Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk. the greatest reptile network in the world. >> If you guys want to see next level, cutting edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progorphs.com. Thank you again, Devin and Theresa, for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized and if you want to be cutting edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor and that's Clutch. Number one Ball Python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this [music] app. Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your Ball Python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming Ball Python season, what you have currently available on Warf Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account. And I would also head over to their website. Try it out. See how it works for you. But especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection, I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thank you Clutch for being so amazing. Excited to hear what Clutch has to bring in the near future. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. You know, longevity is one of the biggest things I strive for when it comes to thinking about being a part of the reptile industry. That's why I'm very proud about today's sponsor, Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. 40 plus years full-time reptile keeper enthusiast. This guy, you can catch all his amazing ball python projects on Morph Market. So, make sure you head over to Morph Market and that's Mark Bailey Reptiles on Morph Market. See what he has available currently. And I got to tell you one thing, he's one of the biggest and most respected ball python breeders we have today in the ball python game. So shout out to Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. Thank you for all the support. And again, make sure you head over to his account on Morph Market. See what he has available. Thank you so much, Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. Cheers.

All right, we're back. Second half of the show. Smash that like button and uh go ahead Big E. What you got, man? Uh, well, someone in the chat brought up mimic brought up mimic. Uh, >> who was that? >> Uh, our buddy Jared. I have to say, >> we're gonna skip it. Sorry. I'm just kidding. [laughter] >> No, Carlos. Carlo needs to needs to start sharing more. When you shelf something and you just stay quiet on it, people it ain't hot no more, man. So, if the homies listening, yo, you need to start doing something with that project, bro. >> It's still pretty hot. >> It's still hot. That's the That's >> if I'm gonna buy any new gene that's on the market period, it's going to be Mimic. If I'm gonna drop any, you know, crazy amount of money, it's going to be on that gene when Carlos finally at OTB Reptiles. If if he finally opens up the floodgates, [clears throat] I I'll be in line. >> Maybe he's playing it right right now. Who knows? I mean, maybe he knows that he got maybe he knows he got something that sick and he's not that desperate to put it out yet. >> We talked in person, bro. Um, it's nice. It's cool. It's something new. Uh, but we we need we need to see more. We need to see more. Like for me, I Tyler, I respect that your opinion, you know. Cool. For me, I need to see more, bro. If not, out of sight, out of mind. I don't think anyone's thinking about it right now. >> Yeah, but but that might move me up in the line. [laughter] >> That was pretty player, Tyler. I like your I like your move. Um, no, but you know, at the end of the day, I will say I kind of forgot about that gene until I was at Tinley and I heard he was there. I heard another reason why his name was brought up and I don't want to get to that. You know what I mean? God bless. >> He also had a pretty sweet move at Tinley. >> Yeah, for sure, dude. I would have [ __ ] never mind. All right. So, but yeah, I was like, "What was up with Carlos, man?" And then you're like, "Yeah, the mimic." And then I saw he had that [ __ ] and I was like, "Woof, man." Still smoking. Um, but I know he's still active in the military, correct? like he's a busy dude from what I know. Um cuz he's I'm supposed to get him on the show, man. We were this close. You're supposed to get him and when he came back on tour from um one of his um I forget what he does, man. I forget. But I know the dude's busy, too. You know what I mean? He's one of those individuals where his whole life just isn't ball pythons. He has some [ __ ] going on, but he also has an awesome project in his hands. >> Great, great, great guy. Uh we vended three times together in Fort Walton. >> Sick. >> Um that's a military town. We do very good there. He's a great guy. Great guy. >> Yeah, >> I'm hoping that he kills it with the project. I I want to see more. I need to see more. Uh he showed me some stuff in person. It's it's it's awesome. But again, we need we need more. Just like with Cosmos, we need more. >> Is he work? If any of you guys know this, Tyler, I don't know if you know this. Is he working towards shed testing? Like is he trying to get to the point? >> I have no idea. I know that he's been working the last couple years. The reason there's been a delay in releasing the project is he he thinks he's produced a super and he wanted to prove out his male super um before releasing animals. >> Yeah. Got it. Okay. Got it. Um go ahead. >> You you go ahead. >> I don't I don't think mimic's one that we're going to need a shed test on for the record. >> Well, tell me more about that. >> I think you're going to see it. It's like a banana. If you produce a mimic, it looks like a mimic. Yeah, but you should still shed test you would think at some point, right? Like regardless what you see, you still should shed test I feel like no matter what. >> Do you shed test a visual clown >> for clown? >> But mimic's not a recessive. >> No, it's it's like an incomplete dominant like like banana. I think it would be I mean you can if you if if a customer wants me to shed test anything, whether it's visual, hetererozygous, whether I know for sure based on the fact that it came from a super, I'll shed anything. But I don't think to be able to pick out a mimic, you're going to need a shed test. >> Damn. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, only in situations where you breed it into something else that looks really similar. Like if you made like a banana mimic, maybe you might want to >> shed that. >> Yeah. Make rainbow mimics. >> Yeah. I feel like you're going to run into something where you're gonna have to shed test that. You know what I mean? At some point. But I get what you're saying. It's like a super ghi or like something where you're looking at it, you're like, "Okay, [snorts] like I know what I'm looking at right now." You know? You can't deny a super gravel or [ __ ] that. You know what I mean? So, >> and again, that's true. Would I test a super gravel? I don't [ __ ] think so. I'd like look what you're looking at, dude. [laughter] >> I think that's that's more what I'm trying to say. >> Good point. I get it. I know. >> I'll I'll shed test anything. I had a customer who wanted me to shed test like visual clown, visual hypo, hit this, hit that >> because they wanted it 100% buttoned up. >> No, no doubts. I mean, I I knew for a fact that it was a hypo clown. >> Looking I know I know for a fact it's a hypo clown, but to make a sale, I'll spend the $45 >> that it cost me to test two two jeans. >> Yeah. And respectfully, that's a project that's going to get my money. If it's that if I like it that much and it's that easy to look at, all right, we're in. You know, if I'm if I'm scratching my head and if I see seven different examples on Morph Market that are being sold as different genetics, pass. Red flag. I'm good. Why the [ __ ] am I going to do that? That sounds terrible. Why am I going to work with someone that has five different names? Terrible, dude. I can't stand it. You guys, Do you guys wish we could come up with a solution with the whole five names for one [ __ ] project? Like >> I just >> it would be nice, but it's it always goes back to like some different people find the different lines of them and work with them. They name it. So are we going to tell you know Trick it can't be Trick anymore and it has to be Hurricane or are we going to call it Hurricane? We going to call it Bliss. I [laughter] >> Hurricane's the coolest name. >> It is the coolest name but it's also trick. So >> it got tricked. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Or what happens whenever we find out that 20 different lines of granite type beans are all the same thing? [laughter] That would be fun. >> Yeah, I mean that that is that could be a possibility. You think like all these >> I mean I like Bambino a lot, dude. I feel like Bambino's on its own little thing, but you're right. Like are we could that be a possibility? Like they're all related. >> The odds the odds are if we look through history that at least one of those genes is going to be the same >> at least. At least >> I was going to say I think there are at least four yellow bellies like that we call yellow belly because imported from outback reptiles that they call them yellow bellies. Yeah. >> But they all test differently >> and they all make ivories. >> They all make ivory. Same thing with red stripe. Same thing with black pastel. I think there's other than Barnhart, I think there are two other >> lines of black pastel at least that that we know about. Um, that's where like the shed testing kind of gets a little a little crazy is when like if I have yellow belly five and that doesn't test, but I see that it's a yellow belly that that animal made an ivory on accident and I know it's a yellow belly, then what am I supposed to do? >> Yeah, Tyler. Uh, if you guys have been listening to the to the podcast, every time I refer to confusion, I refer to confusion acid. >> They test differently supposedly. Yeah, but that's how I feel. I I don't care if they test different. >> We don't have a test for both >> because of what you just said. Yellow bellies test different. Black pastels test different. That's enough for me. >> Yeah, same. >> He also says chocolate and Wookie are completely uh the same. Um >> they look they look pretty similar as a super >> pass. >> I don't think so, Tyler. I think you're capping on that one. >> Just lines. >> That's okay. >> Garcia chocolate's better than regular chocolate. if you want. >> You haven't seen me mention that again. >> I know it's been a long time. I've been waiting to mention that up for a long time. >> [ __ ] just That's just a toxic MJ in me, dude. I'm sorry. Um, but again, you know, kind of going back to what we're saying here. I mean, okay, if we were to kind of talk about the best way to work a gene that is an incomplete dominant versus recessive, you don't do anything different with either or, you would say, right? like you work an incomplete dominant the same way you would work a recessive or is that not the case? >> That depends on if there's a shed test for that recessive. >> If there's a shed test for that recessive and you're okay testing for a lot of stuff sometimes. >> Yeah, >> you can work it just like an incomplete dominant as long as you can test it. >> Yeah. What do you think? K and B >> incomplete dominant. You're going to be more likely to so like if you've got a male, breed it to a variety of females to see what your interactions are. You're going to breed it to a yellow belly. You're going to breed it to a bell complex. You're going to breed it to anything. So you can see all the different looks that you're going to get from an incomplete dominant. Whereas a recessive, you're going to be a little bit more picky and thinking exactly what genes you want to put into it. You're not just trying to make a bunch of hats because you're gonna have to keep all of them if you're going to be starting off on a new recessive. You have to keep a rack of them. >> I was gonna say the only big difference is a lot of our incomplete dominance make white or black snakes. Um if you start combining them into supers, right? Because if if we're going to start calling recessives just like super clowns or or whatever we pick, sure you can work it like a recessive, but like you start getting like wobbly animals, you start getting kinkedked animals, you start getting like shark mouths with a lot of these awesome animals um in the spider complex, in the eightball complex, you start getting some weird looks. Um, so in that specific case, I would try and avoid working an incomplete dominant like a recessive, but for most cases, it's pretty much the same with a $35 payw wall at this point. >> Yeah. Like I'm working a lot of asphalt stuff. And for that example, you you can tra you can almost treat that similar to a recessive because I'm going for super asphalt in almost every combo I'm using asphalt in. So, I guess it definitely depends on which incomplete dominant you're looking at because like you said, there are some that you just don't want to go down that road as well. So, >> yeah, >> let me say what Tyler said is um is correct. Uh for me in my collection, I am going away as much as I can from producing special needs, you know. Hey, hey, they are they are, bro. You could see it. Anyone that's produced a lot of ball pythons, you could tell when something's special, bro. >> Yeah, that's super spot-on spindle. >> Yeah. [snorts] It's just different. >> Remember remember, you don't call a [ __ ] baby condro that hasn't eaten the right way yet special. Okay, Alio, those are not special snakes. Those are just snakes that aren't established yet. They're not spider. It's not a spider wobble. So, let's make sure you never say that again. Okay, >> that that only happens if you give him too much chicken gizzard. >> Okay, hold on. [laughter] Let me lose some context. So, Emilio obviously he's he's becoming a more fan of the condos by the day. He was watching all in the treat Tuesday episode and I was talking about how my calico [ __ ] snakes are like kind of deep to these when it comes to eating. Like they'll they'll wrap, miss, and then corkcrew and just sit there, but then they'll go back to normal. [laughter] >> Sounds a lot like a spider. >> And then immediately I could tell he was kind of concerned. He's like, "MJ, these calos kind of sound spidery to me." And I'm like, "Me though? Shut the [ __ ] up." >> Hey, hey. SHE WAS LIKE, >> "GET THE [ __ ] OUT OF HERE." She was like, [laughter] "Hey, bro. You're my bro, BUT DON'T YOU EVER EVER." >> Ryan Ryan Young would agree with you. >> Don't you ever. [laughter] But dude, he he he he he had I get it because we we saw we saw what spiders do, you know? And so when I'm talking Corkcrew, he's wondering like, do they not stop doing that? They eventually get it. They get it. They figure it out and they stop. [laughter] It's over. It's over after that. But this guy was on the assumption like that's what they do forever. And like no man, don't call my calico project a design >> designer spiders are are back. [laughter] All right, Mia, go and take a topic away, man. >> Uh, hey, if you guys want, we can start selecting uh

The best animals, and I'm gonna, I'm going to do it. Uh, we are going to knock stuff out. I'm going to keep it project-related. Uh, what I, what I put against each other to make it nice and easy. All right.

Um, hurricane OD hypo puzzle, Prague, or Orange Dream, black pastel, hypo puzzle, constricted reptiles. I'm gonna let each of you answer that.

"I'm going hurricane."

"You're going hurricane."

"Who is that?"

"Matt."

[clears throat] "Candy."

"Okay. Is do you have the, the like super OD hurricane hypo puzzle? Is that what you're talking about?"

"Uh, I liked the, uh, I think those the super was a super OD special hurricane. Um, which is nice, but I, I like the just the OD hurricane even better, honestly."

"Next one I have here is hurricane orange dream hypo puzzle."

"All right, I'll, I'll pick that one, too."

"Okay."

"I do like, I do like that. Yeah."

"All right. Um, that, that animal that Dale hit, I love."

"Is awesome."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Um, all right. This, this going to be pretty easy, but I'm going to go ahead and put it on there. Uh, hurricane orange dream hypo puzzle or GHI pastel hypo puzzle. Again, Dale, that animal to me is phenomenal. The pattern is [ __ ] sick. But..."

"Which, which one? Which one?"

"Media."

"A GHI pastel hypo puzzle."

"GHI pastel."

"I don't think it's that animal's amazing. The pastel GHI interaction is really, really nice. And..."

"Hypo puzzle."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"It is like the most perfect puzzle pattern you can think of."

"Um, from, from a look standpoint, that might be a better look, um, in an animal, but I think genetically speaking, I still want the orange dream hurricane hypo puzzle."

"Is that snake? Is that snake on here?"

"Um, Alio, which one?"

"Which one?"

"Keep going."

"Go to a, it's a pastel. Um, man, I'm gonna have to put my screen bigger. Hold on."

"Tyler, can you see it?"

"Can you guys hear me?"

"I think..."

"All right. It's, it's..."

"I think it's right in there in the middle. This one."

"At the bottom by in."

"Keep going down."

"By the word in on the, on the..."

"Right here."

"No, it's on top of that one, I think."

"Or next to it. Next to it."

"This one right here. Yeah, that thing is that thing is freaking nuts, bro."

"GHI pastel hype. I don't know, man. I think I think Pastel's [ __ ] with it."

"Oh, bro. That thing's exceptional to me."

"Making it better."

"I like the pattern, but I think Pastel's [ __ ]..."

"Add DG and that thing will be, that thing will be like a gray, gray and yellow perfect coloration."

"That thing's incredible. I want to make that one day. And you know what? I'm not a pastel lover."

"This snake needs DG for sure. That's exactly what it need. That's all only thing it's missing. You throw DG in it, it's going to be [ __ ] next level for sure."

"And that's what's so exciting about the puzzle project, bro. Like, this is what I want to see. I, I need to see stuff like this. This, this excites the hell out of me, man."

"Yeah. Puzzles."

"All right. You guys are going hurricane with that one?"

"Sure."

"I am."

"Okay."

[snorts]

"Yeah."

"Right."

[sighs and gasps]

"So, let's go. Super Mandarin Stranger Hypo Clown TJ. Jesus Christ. Must be crazy."

"DJ DJ Pompei."

[clears throat]

"Oh, I'm gonna go with TJ's. Even though DJ Pompei is nuts."

"You just [clears throat] can't. That Super Mandarin [ __ ] is nuts. Hold on."

"Yeah, I'm going Super Mandarin."

"It's the first picture on TJ's profile."

"I'm bringing it up."

"Yeah."

"I think I've seen that one and I think it looks really good if it's all I'm thinking of."

"It's outstanding. That is crazy, dude. I mean, just just look at this [ __ ] I mean, I would say like all this Mandarin [ __ ] is [ __ ] nuts, to be honest."

"Being, being a Mandarin guy, I have to, I have to go with Mandarin. But the DG Pompei might be, I was that produced in 2025 or 2024?"

"April this year. April this year."

"No, no, no. The, the DG Pompei."

"Oh, that was..."

"I saw it in May. I mean, it could have been a January."

"Yeah, it was January, baby. Think..."

"I think they hit it with other genes on top of it. But this, this year was when they hit just the straight DG pump."

"That, that animal is that animal is unbelievable and an animal that's been being chased for years, especially the DJ hypo version that Justin's been chasing for years."

"It's, me to me, that's a top five animal ever hit. And I'm not a Pompei guy at all. That animal..."

"That animal's beautiful."

"That animal blew me away. Yeah. So I'm going with that one. But so far, uh, it looks like Superman, um, Stranger Hypo Clowns in, in the lead. Are we agreeing on that?"

"My vote goes to the Pompei, but I don't know where that puts it if it, if that breaks a tie or not."

"Okay, we're two two."

"MJ's got to pick."

"I didn't, I was playing. I thought I was just here to watch, dude."

"MJ, you're tie break. You got to break the tie, bro."

"I'm going to go Superman, dude. I have to."

"Okay."

"It's, it's just too, it's too too crispy. It's too clean. It's just if you, I mean, I know Exantic ages or, I'm sorry, I know Pompei DG stuff could age well, but it's not going to age compared to this Super Mandarin stuff. It's really not. Um, with the..."

"It's both going to age really well just in different domains. Cleaner look."

"Well, one's going to look better as an adult. I can tell you that right now. One will look better as an adult and I would bet it's Super Mandarin hypo [ __ ] that looks better as an adult."

"We'll see. Day by day."

"All right, let's go. Super Mandarin Stranger Hypo Clown to True Ghost Desert Desert Ghost Clown."

"That's a hard, that's a hard one to compare."

"I mean, that's what we got."

"Pairing a quad to a..."

"I mean, that's what we got. Those are the best animals hit this year, I think, man."

"You know, because I like both the hypo clown and DG anthic clown animals better than the quad as a whole, I think I'm still going to go with the Super Mandarin animal. Oh, okay."

"Just based on what my eye likes, I'm going Superman still."

"Okay."

"I like Exanthic too much."

[laughter]

"All right. So, we're going to go with the last one. And you, you know where I'm going? Okay."

"Did you, did you pick Amelia? I feel like, are we just asking them or we going across the board here?"

"Well, I mean, this, it seems to me like the Super Mandarin Stranger Hypo Clown won that, won that battle right there."

"Okay, cool. Well, okay. Yeah, it does. All right, keep it moving. Move forward."

"All right, so Spotnose, yellow belly, confusion, exanthic, DG clown to Super Mandarin, Stranger, Hypo Clown."

"Superman."

"The DJanthic clown is the best animal I've ever seen."

"Okay."

"Yep."

"Nothing can possibly beat that."

"It clears. It clears."

"DJanthic clown."

"Wow. All right."

"It's, I mean, that animal made it. So, I had to reach out to Mark Bailey and pick up a couple breeder females."

[laughter]

"Yeah."

"Bob. That was Bob."

"To the OG."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. Hey, look. I'm not surprised where we ended up. Okay."

"Me neither."

"I'm surprised. I'm surprised JP's second Super Chocolate DG Hypo Clown didn't get put on the list."

"Oh."

"Well, that was a last year thing."

"No, he made another. He made another one."

"Right? No, do it twice."

"We, we gave him mad props for the other one, bro. So..."

"Yeah. Move forward."

"Yeah, that's a beautiful animal."

"Yeah. Um, so was that, was it? So that, that's what takes, that's the winner."

"Yep."

"DG Exanthic Clown."

"Uh, honorable mention. Uh, Spotnose yellow belly paint clown. Rec."

"Yeah."

"Reck room. Very nice animal. Another animal that deserves an honorable mention. Uh, Matt, it was a, the freeway combo."

"Yeah, that was a super hurricane leopard freeway. Um, it's insane. Uh, I just sent MJ a picture if you want to see it. It doesn't sound like it, it's all that crazy, but when you look at it, it gives you like vibes."

"Oh, what the [ __ ] This is sick."

"I saw that and I said, you know what? I gotta have this animal, you know?"

"Oh my god, this is..."

"It looks so good. Um..."

"You bought that?"

"There's so many things. Yeah, I bought it. It's still in Canada because of the weather, but I'm gonna have it in the spring. So..."

"But like there's no recessive in it. There's so many directions I can take it, you know."

"Dude, this is gnarly. What is this?"

"That thing's sweet."

"Yeah, it's just it's just a super hurricane leopard freeway. It's it's, you know, with no recessive, there's just so much you can do with that, you know?"

"Hey, super exanthic, you know."

"That easy exanthic is..."

"Better than a clown to make, you know."

[laughter]

"Right? It's..."

"Going to take, it's going to take a lot of animals to recreate that. Yo, imagine adding Spotnose, uh, True Ghost to that."

"God."

"The thing is though, like what Tyler said, it's hard to repeat a bunch of animals that look like this in a clutch, right? Like that's kind of where..."

"It's impossible. It's got a bunch of supers."

"Right?"

"Unless you have..."

"Yeah. Unless you have like a hurricane, what was it? Like a hurricane leopard gravel on the other side."

"Yeah. You need, uh, well, you need, uh, either asphalt or yellow belly."

"Oh, it's a freeway."

"Yeah, it's a freeway. And [snorts] then you need hurricane. Like, I, I do have one female that's, uh, let's see, that's a yellow belly hurricane head DG. So that, that's, you know..."

"Pretty cool."

"I c, I can't get too much further with that, but you know, I'm going to try to make a lot of heads with this though by by putting it into the DG anthic clown animals. Um, you know, hypo exanthic clown, um, you know, stuff like that. Um, and I have asphalt on a lot of females as well, so I can try and go for the super asphalt instead of the freeway and see if that looks even better, which I, I think it would look better. Um, just because the super asphalt has really, you know, good color. Um, it's going to be darker and deeper and I think that'll complement the look of that animal even better than the yellow belly does. So that's the direction I'm going to go. I'm going to try to make that in a super asphalt instead of the yellow belly."

"Hey, shout out to Nicole, bro. That girl."

"She makes some really nice stuff. And her hurricane stuff is nice."

"She got it going."

"She's got a really good."

"Yeah. If you guys haven't yet, check out that Morph Market blog I did on her stuff, which was like not even close to everything. Um, she just, dude, and I've had this respect for Nicole for years now. Like, I've had this feeling like, dude, this girl's like, she's pretty dialed in, you know what I mean? And so here we are a few years later and now her [ __ ] and she hasn't even like she hasn't even peaked yet. Like not even close. Like I feel like one thing I love about Nicole, she's always working for like five years down the road. Like, you know what I mean? And I feel like, dude, doing that eventually when you hit that five-year mark with that project so worth the wait or so worth like the longevity working projects like that because you're gonna, you're gonna be making [ __ ] nobody else is making and that's what you have to do. You have to stand out like that, you know. Shout out to Nicole, man. Girl power. Um, what would you guys say? Hey, listen. I got something for you guys. What's the, and and it doesn't, we don't have to vote. It's could be whatever it is in your eyes, okay? Um, what's the real MVP morph of the year for you guys? What's the one morph that carried, feel like the weight for not even maybe just yourself, but overall, you feel like the one that made the biggest impact this year?"

"I want to go with the Mio first. Alio, what was it?"

"I think for me 100% it's puzzle."

"Puzzle."

"All right. Still City."

"Puzzle definitely seemed like it was the theme this year at a lot of the shows. Um, yeah, as a single, you know, single gene, you know, I would say that stood out a lot. A lot of people were buying puzzles. A lot of people brought some really nice puzzles that they've been working on. Um, so I, I could agree with that. You know, I like a lot of the Exanthic stuff I saw this year as well, but the puzzle stuff seemed like, yeah, just fresh, new, everybody's paying attention to it. Yeah, that that's the big thing is with Puzzle right now is everything that's being, well, not everything, but a lot of the stuff that's being made is new. We haven't seen it yet. So, there's fresh excitement. Fresh excitement. Fresh excitement. Um, I'm, I'm probably the same as far as recessives at least would be puzzle. Uh, incomplete dominance. Um, probably like for my own collection, but just all of the stuff we've been seeing is hurricane. Like every hurricane combo that I see, I like."

"Yeah, Tyler. I think for me it's always gonna be Mandarin is is the."

[laughter]

"I love it, dude. He loves [ __ ] Mandarin. I thought I love Mandarin. Tyler loves Mandarin."

"It's, I mean, it's the backbone of a lot of my projects."

"Yeah. Respect. Respect. I love it."

"What I'm most known for, it's the animals that I produce that are the most cutting edge. I haven't seen a combo that doesn't look better with Mandarin, um, in it."

"You know, making a, a snake more orange never hurts."

"Right? But [clears throat] the super form is what's important with men. Yeah."

"Yeah. Yeah. That's automatic."

"It's just again, it's like hitting a recessive. It's hard to get there. It's hard to get to the super form unless you have, you know, a fleet of females that are also mandarins."

"Yeah. But let me ask you guys this. Like, you know, for instance, we know TJ makes the nicest mans out, but you feel like once you build momentum like that after a while with your projects, the quality of your [ __ ] starts to pop up a lot more than it was before? Like the quality odds become a lot better with time, right? I, I think something that we've lost a lot in ball python breeding in general is is is..."

"Is we've, we've always kind of line bred as as breeders by holding back the best looking animals. Whether it's with hurricane, mandarin, clowns, you know, I hold back the busiest clowns, the the brightest orange mandarins, the, you know, craziest looking hurricanes. And if you keep breeding and you get to the third generation, fourth generation, fifth generation, that, you know, Aussies too with Orange Dream or, you know, some of these breeders are with Hurricane. That's why you see these really crazy animals that can even just be a single gene copy."

"Mhm."

"Yeah."

"100%."

"Yeah. 100%."

"Um, Ma, you got a topic or you want me to keep going because I got more?"

"No, it's your turn, man. I'm good."

"All right. So, you know, one of the things, guys, I feel like we should discuss tonight is, um, your guys' biggest win of the year and the biggest like setback. Um, and all setbacks have different levels. It could be the most smallest thing, but it was still something you learned from. So, let's start with you, Tyler. What was, what was the biggest, maybe I guess opportunity that you could take advantage of learning this year? And what, what was the biggest win for you this year?"

"Yeah, I think the biggest opportunity was was learning how to juggle 39 clutches."

"Yeah."

"You know, that was a pretty significant increase for me. And this is something I do while I'm going to medical school. Um, so I'm very, very fortunate that my wife is willing to help with anything and everything, uh, when it comes to the snakes, but learning how to balance, you know, 200 hatchlings while going to medical school and working in the hospital for like 12 hours a day has been really challenging. Um, it's made me grow with time management skills, with delegation skills, with asking for help. You know, it's really hard for me to want somebody else to help with my collection, um, because it's my baby, you know, it's something that I've been growing myself that I want, you know, my hands in everything. Um, but working on that and then I think the biggest win for me this year is I, I've, I've kind of deemed this the the year of the double visual. So, I've been able to finally produce DG clown head hypos, you know, clown pi clown pipe double head, DG, uh, DG hypo, and, uh, in my last clutch of the year, I finally produced hypo DG clown."

"[ __ ] yeah."

"So..."

"Dude, I haven't really..."

"I haven't made a hypo DG anything yet, but I can only imagine how beautiful those things look in the, just in the, when you caught..."

"The, the problem is taking the little peak, uh, in the little window that I cut. I thought I, I thought I hit a lot more hypo pi clowns."

"Yeah, I've been there, pal. Trust me."

"But, but it looked like it was only one in a couple hypo clowns that are pretty nice."

[laughter]

"At least you didn't go to your stories like an [ __ ] and be like, 'I [ __ ] LOOK WHAT I HIT, GUYS. [ __ ]' you know what I mean?"

"I've done that too many times."

"It sucks. Especially because like it, [ __ ] [ __ ] I, I don't, I didn't care about what I could get for it. I wanted to keep it first and foremost. I just wanted to hit that. And and also I was in my mind not expecting to hit hypo because I didn't hit it. [ __ ] [laughter]"

"It's hard when, uh, our eyes see what we want them to see when you're like, 'I got one in 64. Is this it?'"

"Yeah. Listen, at the end of the day, dude, I'm, I'm not complaining about this year. I had the biggest year with the Contras, but my year with the ball pythons this year, even though I had a lot more clutch, I thought odds wise, I got smoked, bro. Like normally, like I'm like, 'Oh my god, I hit this shit.' This year I was like, 'Why the [ __ ] is there one clown and seven [ __ ] you know, hats?' You know what I mean? I got a lot of that this year. I got humbled by the ball pythons this year."

"It all comes, it all comes back around. A lot of large numbers. It's all going to work out in the end."

"Yeah, I've had a lot of wins with ball pythons. I'm not complaining. Like I said, I every year until now, I was like hitting [ __ ] that I was like, couldn't even dream of. I'm happy that I hit it, but then I was like, 'Okay, stuff's starting to even out now a little bit, and it's all good, man.' But Tyler, you did, you mention you were in medical school? Medical school in our first episode that we did. Did you, you know?"

"I think so. Yeah."

"Because that really checks out, bro. You're pretty sharp."

[laughter]

"I'm like, Tyler guy's pretty [ __ ] sharp. What does he do? It's medical school. Medical school makes sense."

"Um, all right. Let's go to K&B, man. Let's talk about the biggest opportunity you had this year. And the biggest W for KMBB. And you can't say your beautiful daughter, okay? Because that's, we already know being a dad, dude, there's no better gift out there. That is the pinnacle of pinnacles and and I got to congratulate you again on being a new father, man. Know it's not easy, but it's a beautiful thing. So, other than being a father, what was the biggest win on top of your biggest opportunity?"

"So the biggest win is this is the first year where I was actually excited to hold a lot back. The first couple years I basically would sell an entire clutch, buy one animal, sell the entire clutch, buy one animal because I, while I probably should have kept more females back, it, it was stuff that I just like wasn't as excited about. So, I would just try to raise that money, put it into something that I wanted. But this year, I think I've probably got 30 holdbacks and another, uh, two clutches to go. Um, so I'll probably be around like 32, 33 holdbacks. A lot of, uh, double recessive stuff finally going this year and I'm just loading up on females because that, the opportunity, um, while while it was also a challenge was fatherhood and going full-time with this and balancing my life from going from a regular, you know, nine to five job to trying to balance everything else because now I'm adding the shows on. So, I'm, and I'm also, uh, watching our friends' baby during the days as well. So, I'm with the babies all day. Soon as my wife gets home, it's here, like, time, time for you to hang out with her. I'm going to go down in the basement and work on snakes for three and a half hours. And then on Friday, I'm packing up snakes and I'm taking off to Tennessee and I'm going to be there all weekend. I'll get back at Sunday at 9:00 p.m. So, it's, it's balancing family life. It's balancing the snake work. It's balancing my own like mental and physical health, making sure I'm staying up on myself and not, you know, doing any discredit to me and I'm able to keep up with everything the way that I like to keep up with everything. Um, and that's like, I mean, that's always going to be a challenge, but it's a very welcomed one and I'm, I'm very grateful."

"Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, man, because as much as we love talking about the grind, snakes, snakes, snakes, take care of yourself, dude. Like you might work a little bit too much than you're, than you're, you know, noticing and you don't like getting burnt out is a real thing. Um, and you can get to a point where you don't realize you're burnt out to where you might have a snapping point. Like, and I feel like that's something people should really pay attention to, man. Like make sure you're keeping this fun and make sure you're doing something about it when you get stressed out because you do get stressed out. I mean, this is, I mean, first and foremost, like taking care of animals the way we do, it's not easy work, you know, and there's things that happen in our life that, you know, takes us away from what we're doing and and that could cause stress and so, and again, man, vending doing all the, and then having a newborn, bro, like goddamn, it could get thick, it could get really heavy, like pressure-wise, you know? And my, I'm not going to lie to you, Matt, when you posted that you were going full-time, my stomach dropped a little bit."

"Just because, just because I, first and foremost, I like you, dude. Like I see [ __ ] and you're young. Um, you definitely have that [ __ ] shine in you, dude. But going full-time when everyone's checking out."

"Yeah."

"Ballsy, bro. But also, you got, you see something that no one else sees, bro. And that's what [ __ ] matters. So, I think I think that you should be very proud of yourself on that as well, man. For sure."

"Thank you, bro."

"Still City, biggest win, biggest setback. All right. Don't hold back, man. Let's go."

"Let's see. So biggest win, I guess, is that I produced a lot of really exciting holdbacks this year. Um, even though I didn't hit a lot of visual stuff. Um, I've got a lot of new genes I'm working into, uh, triple and quad recessive projects that I've been able to hit some males, um, and some females that I'm that I'm holding back. Um, so it just excites me more about the coming season. You know, next couple years are going to be really, really exciting. Um, once I have all those greeting."

"[ __ ] you guys."

"Yeah, listening. Yeah."

"Um, as far as like a setback, I mean, I, I had terrible [snorts] odds on hitting triple visuals this year. Um, both on the DG exanthic clowns and the hypo DG clowns. Um, just missed, missed on all the odds. I, I made one DG anthic clown. I should have had at least probably half a dozen of them, but just terrible odds on that. And, uh, even on DG anthics, terrible odds. But, you know, making the other stuff, the males that have, you know, other genes, I wasn't shooting, you know, for triple visuals in yet. I can shoot for that, you know, next year for sure. So, that, that can make it more exciting in the future. Um, and much like Matt, as far as my my day-to-day life, it's a bit challenging sometimes because I also have, uh, you know, kids at home that I'm watching during the day and spending time with them and and, um, I kind of wait until everybody's in bed. You know, we have dinner, everybody goes to bed, and then I go out and, you know, do the work that I need to do. Um, sort of on my time, not on my family's time, I guess."

"Um, it can be challenging because I, I breed all my own rodents and then an excess of rodents and then all the snakes. So, it's a lot to juggle. Um, but you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. So, you know, yeah."

"It's the truth, man. And can I give a little backstory what just happened about an hour ago when I was like, 'I, I'll be right back.' So, somehow my son found the [ __ ] garage door opener. Okay. And opened my garage, which I have all my racks against. So, my garage got stuck. My garage is broken right now, by the way. So, my garage was coming up and it got caught on the rack and it, and it's off now. The rack, the garage is off the tracks. So, my garage is like this right now. By the way."

"So, how do you get the remote?"

"Oh [ __ ]"

[laughter]

"Kids."

"Kids and technology, they find a way."

"Well, guess what, dude? You got to learn. You just got to go with it."

"Damn."

"He's, he's feeding blue tree monitors now."

"I was, I was literally going to say, 'Guys, I got to go fix my garage and leave.' But I was like, 'I, I got to show the dude. What the [ __ ] am I going to do? I gotta Thank god it's not too cold outside and probably my room's drier than a [ __ ] goddamn desert tit right now. I don't know what to do. I'm just whatever. Hey, listen. I'm having a good time. All right. I'm having fun. Kids. Kids. Dude. Hey, hide."

[laughter]

"Hide your garage door opener, Matt. All right. That's all I got to say."

"Yeah, it's got to go in my cabinet."

"Yeah, dude. But also too, like struggling [snorts] everything we do matters, you know, because if, again, going back to not taking care of yourself, your family will be affected by it. Your collection will be affected by it. So, we're number one. Our, our sanity, our health. That's number one, dude. We take care of ourselves, we could take care of other things. You know what I mean? Um, but goddamn, this [ __ ] can get stressful, dude. It really can. But also, you got to remember why we're doing this. And sometimes just taking a snake out and looking at it kind of makes you snap out of it and you're just like, 'Oh yeah, now I remember why I'm doing this.' You know what I mean? So again, as much as you guys work, do take your snakes out more. Maybe that helps. I guess I don't know."

"But yeah, we're, we're approaching the end of the episode here. Uh, Milo, do you have any close closing statements or topics? Uh, because I, I want to go around the horn, give the boys a last shot to say anything they want to say, but we'll start with you. If you have any topics or questions you want to close off with, Alio?"

"Uh, well, for each of them, uh, I, I simply want to know what are they looking forward to the most in 26, pretty much."

"Yeah, let's go with, uh, Steel City."

"Um, hopefully hitting, hitting good odds on a lot of stuff. Um, I, I initially was going to shoot for a lot more clutches than I think I'm going to try for this year. Um, I, uh, I, I had a big number. I was going to go for 100, but I think, uh, I'm going to dial that back just a little bit. Um, just after experiencing how much work it was, um, trying to juggle everything this year. I think I'm gonna, you know, go somewhere between maybe 50 and 75."

"Still a lot."

"But it's still a lot. Yeah. I, you know, when I was, whenever I was just starting to do like 40 to 50, I thought, 'Oh, I could go up to 100 no problem.' And the closer I get to that, it's, um, it's a lot of work, you know. When my kids are in school, no problem. I'll probably do 100 clutches a year. Um, but watching kids during the day and trying to fit everything in, you know, in the evenings, or on weekends, or, you know, um, it's a lot of work. So, um, yeah."

"Try not to produce a whole lot of byproduct, but try to get, you know, the odds on the stuff I, who, you know, really, uh, want to hit, you know. Um, hopefully have some cool asphalt, uh, and super asphalt stuff in the DG Exanthic Clown project. We'll see. Um, and then, uh, I do have a couple of chances at some, um, uh, hypo, you know, DG Exanthic Clown combo stuff, but probably not going to hit. It's all, it's all long odds. I'm going to just make ingredients for the next year, you know. But, um, yeah."

"I think, I think, I think you're gonna hit it, dude."

"We'll [snorts] see. I hope so. But I don't know. At least you're excited about it."

"Yeah. I mean, you gotta try. You can't hit it if you don't try. You know."

"At least you're on the field playing. You know what I mean?"

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Yeah."

"I was in a similar spot when I was looking at my pairing sheet for this year. And this last season I did, uh, 34 clutches and I get my pairing sheet done and I've got like 85 females on there. Like, I don't know about that. So, I'm, I'm cutting mine back a little bit, too. So, I'm probably going to go for about 40 to 45ish, I would say. Um, and then, mo, what I'm most looking forward to is, um, having another year like this year where it's really hold back heavy. So, having two years in a row like that is really going to help me not just revamp the collection, but I'm, I'll be able to improve it vastly because all of the stuff that I've been waiting to grow up is going to be going. So, it's going to be a lot of, uh, hypo puzzle stuff, of course. Um, some of the True Ghost puzzle stuff. I don't think I'll see visual, uh, the triple visual this year, but there's a chance if a female wants to go. Um, doing a lot of, uh, hurricane DG hypo stuff. U, really excited about that. Um, and then just, just trying to plug in more incomplete dominant genes into the recessive projects that I work. Got a little bit, uh, blinded by the double recessive in the beginning and didn't add as many genes as I should have in my holdbacks. So, this year is really about making the combo visual with a hat. That way, I can replace my simpler stuff that I've got in the, in the breeder room."

"Building blocks so crucial."

[clears throat]

"What you got?"

"I think really it's the same answer every year. Every year with a, as ball python breeders, it's always next year my females are going to be up to size that I need to breed and I'm going to produce this awesome combo and it's going to be, you know, next level. And I feel like every year we kind of get to this point when we start our breeding plans that, that, you know, next year is going to be even better. But I think in 2026, I'm really looking forward to being able to work on my own collection. Um, really refine some things as well as, you know, some of those initial pairings for triple heads really starting to to pay off. Um, with the DG hypo clowns, with the DG exantic clowns, with, you know, some of the sunset hypo clowns, things like that, re, really starting to pay off in 2026 and I'm just looking forward to an even better year than 2025. The last few months have been really, really promising marketwise. I've, I've gotten a lot of sales in the last few months and [clears throat] I'm looking forward to an even stronger 2026."

"[ __ ] yeah. I love it. Um..."

"Go ahead. What did you guys think of the, the, uh, Cypress sunset clown that Miguel hit?"

"It's awesome."

"Yeah, I like that a lot. I'm not a sunset guy personally, but I really, really like that animal."

"That's really nice. I want to see..."

"The, the Cypress, the Cypress [snorts] Sunset Hypo is, is I think the nicest hypo sunset combo that's been produced."

"Yeah."

[sighs]

"I'm just going to be quiet because Miguel was supposed to come over this weekend and he didn't. So, whatever, dude."

[laughter]

"It was, it was all right."

"I'm just kidding."

"I like, I like the Spotnose yellow belly sunset clown a lot, too, though."

[snorts]

"Okay, real quick. I got to ask you across the board real quick. How do you guys all feel about sunset?"

"I'm dead curious. Like, is it on the way? Think on, we're almost there. What do you, what do you think?"

"I'm a big Sunset guy."

"I love it."

"Every controversial mutation you can come up with, I'm, I'm probably big on it. Uh..."

"Scrambler. Scrambler. You love Scrambler?"

"I'm into it."

"You got it."

"Beautiful. Beautiful snakes. I think so."

"You think?"

"You think you have Scrambler? Why do you say you think? I mean, does anybody know what they have in anything?"

"I like, I like it."

"I like it, bro."

"Um, but Sunset, something I know I have. Uh, I'm really excited for Sunset Hypo Clown and Sunset Ultramale Clown. Um, both directions. Dude, I love you, Tyler. You're, you're something else, dude. That I know I have."

[laughter]

"Hey, we gotta cut that. Okay. And put that out there."

"I'm the [ __ ] out of that. Are you kidding?"

"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, uh, I'm excited about my sunset projects, but I'm careful with it."

"I mean, you went, you went sunset exanthic pied. That's like pretty dangerous."

"That's super."

"It is and it isn't. It's a pied. You can always sell it for 300 bucks."

"No [ __ ]"

"I, I understand. If I, if I was going to take a risk, I was going to take a risk with Exanthic."

"Yeah."

"And Pied."

"Yeah."

"Yeah."

"Okay."

"It could be cool. It might not be cool."

"Okay. Exanthic Sunset. Are we looking on going to be cool or most likely not cool?"

"I think it look cool."

"You think it's gonna? You think it's gonna pan out? KB."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Tyler, what do you think? Exanthic Sunset. Are we..."

"I hope it pans out. I mean, I hope I do, but I'm also..."

"Oh [ __ ]"

"I think..."

"Gonna be better than Sunset Clown."

[laughter]

"That's not saying much though, to be honest."

"They're both, they're both gonna be pretty brown."

[laughter]

"Let's see what happens. That's why we do it, you know."

"I think at least you got the pattern modification that you can see through even if it doesn't really do a whole lot to the exanthic. But..."

"I don't think it's going to be a loss. I think, you know, no matter what, it's going to look, you know, neat and new."

"Add, add Ultraml. It might be pink."

"Now I'm trying to decide. Should I, should I make possible quad hats with, uh, sunset pied?"

"Now you're thinking."

"Yeah, I don't know. I have to think about that. That's, that's big."

"Pull, pull out the lawn chair, bro. Have a seat in front of your racks."

"Yeah, I'm gonna have to drink a couple beers."

"Yeah, smoke a dab. Come on, Emilio. Do it for me."

[laughter]

"All right. Um, round the horn real quick before we. And by the way, great episode, guys. I really appreciate you guys' time. Two hours went by very quickly. Um, but we all know, man, people didn't always have as good as the years as some others. So, if there's anyone out there who's like unsure, okay, going into next year if they should continue or not, um, let's start with you, Tyler. What, what should this person do, man? If anyone's uncertain just because what they're hearing, they're hearing a lot of good but bad and they don't know what to believe. They're confused. What would you say?"

"I mean, there's a lot of voices out there that say, 'Oh, the market's dying. Oh, this is this is going to go, you know, away. Everything's going to everything's going to go away. Nothing's going to last.' But they, the same people have been saying that for 20 years."

"The same people have been saying that since, since, you know, the Caramel Albino was $20,000, right? Um, I think the biggest thing is as long as you're able to produce animals, no matter what you bought in at, um, no matter what high you bought in at, as long as you're able to produce animals and sell your animals, you'll never lose. Um, you just need to keep working on your projects, keep working the animals, and keep being creative. Uh, I think 2026 is going to be a big year for for creative minds and for for animals that, uh, that really shock, you know, the world and shock, you know, social media. Yeah."

"Couldn't agree more. What about you, Matt? K&B."

"Yeah, Tyler nailed it. Um, at, at the end of the day, you have to enjoy doing this to do it well. So, it's, it's the people who aren't fully invested in it that it's not a bad thing if you want to take the year off or you want to do half the number of clutches that you were planning on. That's fine. It's the people who are really in it. We're still going to be geeking out over this [ __ ] every single year. Doesn't matter what we're selling it for. We enjoy doing it. We love seeing the animals that we're producing. It's, you can get down on prices and the market all you want, but at the end of the day, we're making sick ass snakes and being able to do art projects in our basement."

"Yeah."

"And and we got reptiles. Like, you, you feed, like you were talking about being a kid, but you feed that like kid in the back of your head every single day working with these animals."

"Yep. Yep. And keeping that kid in you alive is what keeps you young, man. Telling you right now, that's kind of keeps you in the [ __ ] game. Keeps you excited to be a part of what you're doing. Gotta be young. You gotta. And then the only way you do that is just enjoying with what, what you're working with. And the love for reptiles is growing bigger than it ever has before. There's that next kid looking at a reptile book, geeking out right now at their school that's probably going to pick up a ball python in the next [ __ ] few years. You just don't, you just don't know. There's so many of those stories happening right now, brewing. You know what I mean? So, you're right. No matter what, this hobby is still going to [ __ ] be here. It doesn't matter."

"There's people getting in all the time, dude. At, at these shows, these guys, I'm sure it..."

"I don't know how many first-time pets I'm selling. How many of those are going to turn into breeders, but we all bought a pet to start with?"

"Y, there's a lot of people still getting into this."

"And you know what, Matt? When you're, when you're doing [ __ ] like you're doing, taking care of your customers, they come back and do business with you. And and that's what matters, man. You, that, that first person snake should not be the last snake with you. You know, if you're taking care of them the right way, they'll come right back. And that's one thing about the show scene is you see the same faces. If you're working, if you're working a show like on a regular basis, people know you're there. They, they [ __ ] recognize you. And then they might not buy something right then and there, but their life might change where they got some [ __ ] play money and they're like, 'You know what, dude? I've been going by your table for the last three years and I'm ready. I want to buy that snake.' It's that simple. You need, you just need a bunch of those. That's it. Um, it's good [ __ ] K&B. All right, send us home, Still City. What you got to say to the people out there who are unsure, man?"

"I mean, the people that are doing it for the right reason are going to be just fine. You know, they have the passion for it, they enjoy what they're doing, they love the animals, they're going to do just fine. Um, you know, people that are looking at it solely as an investment. You could definitely make a lot of money breeding ball pythons. But, um, there's a lot of ways that you can make a lot of money. So, you know, those people come and go. Um, you know, sometimes ball pythons are the best thing you can invest in. Sometimes they're not. But, you know, it cycles. I mean, you know, if you stick it out for the long run, you're going to do just fine."

"It kind of goes with anything in life, right, guys? Like..."

"You know, if you love it that much, you stick around."

"You get what you're searching for."

"Yeah. Just stay. It's commitment, man. Like, the commitment's everything to what we do. And and you know, and not looking for [ __ ] handouts or like, you know, just do the work. Put your head down. Who gives a [ __ ] if no one's liking your photo that you just posted? Just keep doing the [ __ ] work, dude. Stay, keep the blinders on. I remember there was a year where I [ __ ] just in my head on my tunnel vision, dude. I don't give a [ __ ] what's happening out there. I'm so focused on my collection. I don't want to see nothing else. Some people need to do that. Some people need to stop wondering what's happening in other people's [ __ ] and just worry with what you have and work it. And that's it, dude. Day by day, man. What a [ __ ] episode. You guys are awesome. Um, Tyler, where can people follow you and all that? Where they, where can they hit you up? Go and drop..."

"Painted Scales Reptiles on Instagram or Morph Market is is the way you can find me."

"KMBB."

"It's..."

KMBB Reptiles on everything. IG Morph Market and Facebook. And then always find us at the shows at find us at Seir.

>> All right. Still city.

>> Still city feeders on Instagram and Morph Market.

>> Well, there you have it, guys. It's a wrap. 2025 new breed on the Block All-Star episode. Give it up for the boys, ladies and gentlemen. [applause] Thank you guys.

>> Thank you. Good job. Great job, guys. [snorts]

>> Thanks to anybody who tuned in.

>> Yeah, for sure. Definitely, man. I'll put all the links to your guys' socials in the in the description below. Go a follow. But catch you guys next year, man. Thank you so much.

>> Thank you. Appreciate it.

>> Have a good one, guys.

>> Peace. Wow.

>> Great rundown of the 2025. Uh great geeking.

>> Geeking session over.

>> The cutting edge stuff that was hit. Uh I had a lot of fun tonight. This made me excited for Ball Pythons even more. You know, hearing these guys, everything that they talked about, they're locked in, dude. And that's what it's all about, you know? You surround yourself around people who are locked in like this, you become locked in yourself, you know? And I think that's everything, bro. You It's everything who you surround yourself with. You're around people who are having pity parties, upset about things, it's going to wear out on you. It's going to that that that energy is going to wear on you. So, you know, don't don't be around people who are always negative, man. Because not not everyone's negative out there. There's some people out there who are [ __ ] grinding and who are producing some amazing [ __ ] and they're just getting started like these gentlemen here.

>> This this last segment, hey, we're doing what we're doing, what makes us happy and what we wake up to do every single day, every single month, every single season, every single year is uh continue to produce animals that make us happy. And

>> Yeah,

>> You do that, you're fine, you know?

>> My man Verina Reptiles, please go give him a follow on Instagram. Um, subscribe to the Bunit and also Patreon. All right, I appreciate you so much, Big E. This is the last new Bri of the Block of the Year. Next two weeks, take it off, man. Enjoy it. All right, we're gonna [ __ ] gear up hard for January.

>> What? 2026, dude. It's on. New breed on the block is coming [ __ ] hard. Okay, so

>> Go ahead.

>> You good?

>> All right, give it up. It's a WRAP FOR BIG EG, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

>> GOOD NIGHT, GUYS. Thank you.

>> All right, brother. Have a good night, man. All right, guys. Thank you so much. Appreciate all the support on these Monday shows. Um, you know, Amelio is my brother and and and you know, his passion for the ball python game is second to none. You know, like he really loves this [ __ ] Um, and what we do here really reaches out to people and gets them excited for being a part of Ball Python game. So, if you're a part of that and you're in the chats, thank you so much. Appreciate the love and support. Um, just for just coming and watching the guests really means a lot. Okay. And uh if you're looking for exclusive content, come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. Click the first link description below. Join the Discord and the awesome Instagram group chat. Um get more behind the scenes of what I have going on. Big year coming up, man. We are we are doing some big things over here. Um and when I say me, I mean me and all my other fellow hosts of the Trap Talk Reptile Network. 2026 is going to be the biggest year for us. So stay tuned, man. Lock in. Get ready. I hope you guys have a big year. I know you guys are some of you guys are going to have your biggest year ever next year. So I'm excited for you guys. And again, if this is your first time watching, hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, hit that notification bell, select all, you'll be reminded every episode. Please check out my sponsors. Find all the link in description below. And I'll catch you here for On the Tree Tuesday tomorrow. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors.

>> Hi, I'm Deon.

>> I'm Pereza. And we are Prague Motors. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe.

>> We really love animals that revolve around multi-recessive projects. And one of our very favorites is hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season and some of those are Hypoclown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle.

>> Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk, the greatest reptile network in the world.

>> If you guys want to see next level, cutting edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progorphs.com. Thank you again, Devin and Theresa, for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized, if you want to be cutting edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor, and that's Clutch. Number one Ball Python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this app. [music] Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your Ball Python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming Ball Python season, what you have currently available on Warf Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account and I would also head over to their website, try it out, see how it works for you. But especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection, I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thank you Clutch for being so amazing. Excited to hear what Clutch has to bring in the near future. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors. You know, longevity is one of the biggest things I strive for when it comes to thinking about being a part of the reptile industry. That's why I'm very proud about today's sponsor, Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. 40 plus years full-time reptile keeper enthusiast. This guy, you can catch all his amazing ball python projects on Morph Market. So, make sure you head over to Morph Market and that's Mark Bailey Reptiles on Morph Market. See what he has available currently. And I got to tell you one thing, he's one of the biggest and most respected ball python breeders we have today in the ball python game. So, shout out to Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. Thank you for all the support. And again, make sure you head over to his account on Morph Market, see what he has available. Thank you so much, Mark Bailey over at Mark Bailey Reptiles. Cheers.