Transcription
Am I the a-hole for refusing to go to my friend's boyfriend's party after she demanded to approve my outfit?
Hey everybody, welcome back. My 29 female and Kate, 28, has a boyfriend, Jamie, 29, whom she's been with for nearly 3 years. We met Jaime on a night out and I would say that although he's Katie's boyfriend, I consider him a friend. We share interest in a particular sport that we text about sometimes.
>> The team, the team, go team, go sports. And if I have a spare hospitality ticket to one of the sporting fixtures, I will sometimes invite Jamie to go.
Okay, my guess is is your friend doesn't like that. Jaime's 30th is coming up and Jamie and Kate planned a big party and I peripherally helped out with logistics when she asked. A few days ago, Kate texted me. She asked if I wouldn't mind quote toning down my look for the party and if I could send her a picture of what I was planning to wear.
>> Oh, absolutely not. No, no, no. Unless you have a friend that like literally shows up like butt naked, you don't have a right to be mad about what people wear. This is giving >> I want my friend to be ugly so that my boyfriend doesn't look at her. >> If your immediate reaction is to like blame the girl, it's a no from me, dog. You should want your friends to look their absolute best at all times. And even if they don't want to look their best, you should support that.
I asked her what this meant, and after asking several times if she really had to say it, >> she asked if I could dress verbatim. Basically what I would consider frumpy.
>> She wants you to dress frumpy because she didn't want to be out Shawn at her own boyfriend's birthday party. You so cute people hate your existence. Something tells me it doesn't matter what you wear, you would still look better than her on the inside and the outside.
When I didn't reply right away, she went on to say that she wanted Jaime's full attention that night. then like go on a date with him. Like don't have a party and she wouldn't get that attention if I showed up dressed properly.
>> I'm sorry. Is this a matter of she can't control her man or is she just really insecure is what I'm wondering. She should feel very confident in her own relationship. There's always going to be beautiful girls out there. You need to be able to trust your man. If you got issues to make you not trust your man around other women, that's something you got to work out.
I was a bit annoyed by what she was implying. I would be, too. So, I said, if I was going to be so much of a concern for her, I'd rather just politely decline the invitation.
>> Yeah. And the friendship. Kate freaked out. Said I was being immature by not coming just because I couldn't steal the spotlight.
>> Oh, no, no, no. The only person being strange and immature is Kate. Missy, I said it wasn't about that. It was about her making me responsible for whether or not I draw her boyfriend's attention, which is something I've never tried to do nor done, as far as I'm aware.
Then she said it was really important to Jaime that she stand out because his friends and colleagues will be there.
>> Yeah, but like someone else being beautiful does not make you less beautiful. Other people around you don't need to dim their light for you to be special in your own right. That rhymed.
I told her that again. If she was so worried I was going to be distracting everyone, I'd rather not come than feel humiliated from now until the event.
>> It literally is giving she wants you to look like because it makes her feel better about herself.
I said I would send her Jaime's gift and she could tell him why I wasn't coming.
>> Yeah, something tells me she's not going to be entirely forthcoming about why you're not coming.
I guess she didn't tell him the reason because Jaime messaged me saying he knows I'm booked the night of the party, but he'd really like it if I could be there and asked if I could reorganize so I could come. I haven't replied, but I got a message from Kate saying she knows Jaime's trying to get me to come. And please, could I just put my pride aside and come to the party?
>> If anyone needs to put anything aside, it's Kate. She should be lucky that you would even consider being friends with her at this point because that is messed up. I have ended friendships for much less than this. It's because when I see the red flags, it's like, okay, I'm not going to let this get worse. I have ended friendships because friends were like upset that I was getting attention or upset that like I was doing well. I have stopped genuinely talking to those people as much, if not at all. Yeah, this to me is like inconceivable that you would want to continue being friends with someone who could ever feel this way about you. >> Inconceivable.
I asked if she was going to ditch the outfit policing, but she said no. So, I said I would not be coming.
>> I think you need to tell her boyfriend that. Maybe it's just the messy in me, but like I'd tell him.
She didn't reply, but I've since received a couple of texts from mutual friends saying that while her request is ridiculous, Kate is aware of that. She's just desperate to be seen a certain way, even if it's pathetic.
>> I would probably feel the same way in her shoes. Uh, I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't go that far. other people doing well in life and being, you know, beautiful should be like celebrated, not toned down. It has literally nothing to do with you and it doesn't make you any less beautiful. What does make you less beautiful is how you're behaving, Miss Kate.
Other friends I've told who don't know Kate say I should not bow to the pressure and that she's nuts for even asking. And I don't disagree. But I also feel bad for skipping the party when it's Jaime's birthday and he asked specifically that I come. So, should I be going?
>> Probably not. >> How long have you known Kate? It doesn't really say. I don't think that you owe her anything. And I understand you're also punishing Jamie, but like sounds like you're pretty good friends with him. And I think that he might have a right to know why you're not coming. I would want to know that about my partner so I could just All right, let's look at the comments. Not the a-hole. Tell Jamie the truth. Just say sorry. But when the choices are giving up my bodily autonomy or giving up the party, the choice is simple. There you go. she'd totally be within her rights to do that. But if she went for actually like, "No, girlfriend asked me not to come. If I don't let her preapprove my outfit," and I felt really weird about that or even like, "Girlfriend and I have had a disagreement and she asked me not to come, I'll let her fill you in. Might be more likely to get a good outcome."
>> Yeah, but then she could just literally just lie. Next comment says, "I like the second option. It puts the onus on the insecure friend and she can come clean about the disagreement or dig a deeper hole." She clearly didn't given the whole story when telling the boyfriend why OP was coming.
>> Yeah, because it's embarrassing. Like that is embarrassing behavior. So, I think it's a nice subtle way to tell him there's more to the story without fully going scorched to earth and sending screenshots of the text. I think it's a much more diplomatic and classy way to handle it at least. I agree with you. Okay. If you want to like, you know, leave it more ominous, mysterious, if you will, just go for it. Something tells me that when he finds out the relationship will end anyway.
Okay, so we do have an update. As surprised as I was that so many people said to tell Jaime, I did realize it was the right thing to do. So, I texted him and told him Kate was insisting I dressed a certain way. Jaime called and explained, "A couple of months ago, Jaime and Kate were out with a few of his friends. These same friends that I mentioned in my comments are not fond of Kate, and everyone had a lot to drink. They were talking about how they met their significant others, and the story of Jaime and Kate meeting came up. Apparently, during the telling of this story, Kate asked Jaime why he decided to hit on her rather than me. And one of his friends joked that it was because he knew he didn't have a shot with the hot one, me. Kate asked if this was true. And Jaime, having way too much to drink, explained in a way that made it sound kind of true.
>> Okay, so like listen, >> that sucks to hear. I would feel some type of way about it, but that's not that's not OP's fault. You want to be chosen first. like I get that, but like this is just like doomed. I'm so I'm sorry. This is doomed. He said he did notice me that night and thought I was attractive just seeing me. He said he would never have approached me because he knew he would never have a chance with someone like me. So, in that way, his friend was right. He said that speaking to Kate was the absolute best outcome because he loves her and plans on spending the rest of his life with her. But even knowing this, Kate has taken this extremely hard. And even though she says she's over it, he's noticed changes in her behavior that seemed to be related to that. He also admitted that he'd been planning to propose to Kate at that party and that is why he wanted me to be there. But after hearing this, on top of the way she's been handling the situation, he won't be doing that anymore.
>> I get where Kate is coming from. I do I'd be kind of annoyed about that, too. But don't be mad at like your friend. She didn't do anything. It would be different if you like, you know, sort of cross the line a little bit with her boyfriend, but not like you can't help the way that you look. slay. >> If she should be mad at anyone, it should be the friends, quite frankly. Kind of a dick move to make you feel that way.
After speaking to Jamie, I called Kate. She admitted that she tied a lot of her selfworth and the fact that she'd finally been picked over me, and now it felt like that wasn't true. She apologized for trying to solve her insecurities through me, but also said she wasn't sure she would be able to have me in her life.
>> Gh as much as I had been with the way she's been feeling. I hate it when people place so much importance on like looks. You know, there's more behind love than just the way you look. It's important to be attracted to your partner, but there's always going to be a more beautiful girl, a more handsome man. You have to be in love with the person. Maybe it is better that you guys are not friends.
As hurt as I was, I said I understood. She said she still wanted me to come to the party since I'd helped organize it, and she'd obviously dropped the absurd dress code. So, I will be going to the party. I trust that Kate will communicate her boundaries to Jaime, but I don't plan on inviting him to any more events for the foreseeable future. I'm really sad that I've probably lost a longtime friend over the drunken awkwardness of other people. But I also get that Kate can't help how she feels. And frankly, it's for the best to not be in secret competition. You never ever ever want to be in secret competition with a friend. Never. You always want to feel uplifted by the people around you. Sometimes women really can't help it. It's this almost like scarcity mindset that we have that like being in a friend group or having, you know, colleagues that are better than us at certain things. Like it just makes us feel like we're less worthy. And we got to check ourselves. We cannot be mad at other people for existing and doing well in life. We can't. That's the patriarchy, my friends. Making us think that there's only so much to go around. So yeah, I'm hurt, but I'm going to the party. Not a satisfying update, but an honest one.
So small update, which I think is important. Going through these comments has actually brought up a lot of memories that have in hindsight made me a bit uncomfortable and I actually don't think I will end up going to this party. As much as the mutual friends will have questions and I don't know how much of the truth I will end up telling. I feel too weird right now to continue to be involved in this situation.
All right, let's see what she said. Jamie sounds like a real piece of work with bad taste in friends. So, you dodged a bullet. That's not something you should say in front of your partner. Literally, that is like so inappropriate and like quite frankly irrelevant. It's hurtful and it's mean and like I understand that they don't like Kate, but like it's just it's none of their business, drunk or not. That is not information that they should have shared. I hope Kate gets out of this relationship before it gets any more serious and you two can mend fences. But either way, be glad he didn't think he had a shot with you and you can just walk away from this whole drama-filled mess.
So, people in the comments are basically saying that the boyfriend still likes OP. you know, he's kind of bringing things up about, you know, >> oh, you're I didn't have a shot with you. Like, you're the hot one. >> Especially, you know, maintaining the friendship the way that he is. I don't know. It could be innocent, but it could not be. And like knowing the history there, like that's a little odd.
>> Well, it's true. These guys are just weird. >> This is heartbreaking for Kate. You did nothing wrong, and she obviously was out of line with what she was asking of you. But I can't imagine hearing your partner say that would be an easy thing to get over, especially if she's insecure. I mean, yeah, that's a very good point. I still genuinely feel like it's not something that she should be mad at OP for. I can understand why she feels the way she feels. At the same time, it's just weird. I don't want to feel like I'm in competition with my friends. Like, ever, ever, ever, ever. She shouldn't have asked. He shouldn't have said what he did or exposed her to his friends if they have a history of not treating her well. I'm sorry you're losing a good friend over this. I hope she takes a step back from him and you guys patch things up. Their relationship doesn't sound healthy at all. Me personally, and listen, this is my opinion. >> That's my opinion. >> I don't like to feel like I'm in competition with my friends. The way that the friend feels Kate feels about OP is that she always feels like she's never picked, which is like a feeling. I've also felt that way. But like never have I said to my friends that they need to like look less hot. No one wants to know that their partner feels that way. I get why Kate is mad, but she shouldn't be blaming her friend. That's how I feel. I do not want to be in competition with my friends ever. That is friendship ending for me. So, those of you who are like, "Oh, feel bad for Kate. Feel bad for Kate." I do. I do feel bad for Kate. And I'm allowed to change my take kind of as the story goes on. By the way, what? No. It sort of seems like sometimes people are like, "You picked the wrong person to defend." At the end of the day, me personally, that is friendship ending. Words of affirmation and being uplifted by my friends and people that I love is literally like my love language. Okay? It is so important to me. That would be a dealbreaker for me, but might not be a dealbreaker for other people, and you're entitled to that opinion. So, are you the a-hole for refusing to go to my friend's boyfriend's party after she demanded to approve my outfit? No, you are not. Ever. Ever.
Am I the a-hole for being upset? My best friend didn't tell me she got married until nearly a week later.
We got time for one more, right? >> Oh, I hope so. Oh, I hope so. >> So, my best friend, 20 female, and I, 19 female, have been friends for about 5 years now, and we were recently both pregnant. She's 7 months, and I miscarried at the beginning of February. Oh, I'm sorry to hear. It's not not fun. She has distanced herself from me since then, even after I told her that talking, hearing, or being involved in her pregnancy was still perfectly fine with me. But it was almost like mostly radio silence from her. Aside from a few small conversations, her whole pregnancy, she decided she wanted to get a courthouse wedding before she gave birth. She explicitly told me she wanted me to be there when she got married and for her baby shower. Ooh. Her baby shower came first. I wasn't sure what was happening with it because she said she might do two with each side of the family, her now husband's family and hers, until one morning when she texted me a photo of the set of a baby shower/gender reveal.
So, she didn't invite you. She didn't ask if I wanted to come. Didn't tell me when it was. Just a photo of the setup the morning of. Then I got a text saying that she was having a girl later that evening. This was a planned party that I heard absolutely nothing about beforehand after she said she wanted me there. I let it go and I didn't want to stress her out in her pregnancy, especially since I wasn't sure if I wasn't just hurt because of my sensitive feelings since it happened 3 weeks after my miscarriage.
H next was the courthouse wedding. I found out the day after it happened through Facebook. Ooh, that's got to hurt.
>> I can understand her not wanting to hurt your feelings by being involved in anything like baby related. Like, I can't actually because you've said that you don't mind, but like the wedding, >> she's not your friend. >> No text from her telling me it was happening. No message that it happened that night. Nothing. Even the next day. Yeah, because she knows she should have invited you. She got married on the 1st. She just decided to off-handedly tell me today as if it was just something like the weather changing. And I can't help but feel incredibly hurt.
>> I mean, yeah, I would as well. You clearly consider her a way better friend than she considers you. She did you a favor. I consider her almost like a sister. I've even given her a place to live when she needed it. And I was always there wanting the best for her. And she told me she wanted me there when she got married. But she didn't even tell me herself until almost a week later. I understand it was her day and it's her choice to who is there. But she called me her best friend. She said I was important to her and she wanted me there, but I didn't even get told by her until a week later and found out from Facebook with radio silence from her until she told me today.
>> Oh, call her out, babes. Call her out, dude. Absolutely not. She texted saying she wanted me there and that she was going to come pick me up. Still never told me she was going to do this, so I still wouldn't have had any clue even if she did come to pick me up. But work got in the way. But she was able to have her parents, sister, another couple, and their kid, and now husband's sibling there with her. She managed to get seven people together to watch her get married, but couldn't even tell her parent, best friend until nearly a week later. It's one thing if she just wanted like her parents there. Like, that's totally fair, right? Like, it's small, it's intimate, but there were other people there. I feel horrible being upset by this because I don't want to stress her out or hurt her, but this is now two major occasions. She said she wanted me there for and I didn't find out until either the last minute or after it's already over.
>> Call her out, babe. Call her out. I'm dead serious. Call her out. This is unacceptable. Like, the fact that she's not feeling like upset by you not being there for these like major events and you are more upset than she is, that's crazy. I thought we were still very close. I've supported her through her sobriety journey and even housed her with my family when she needed it. So, I care very deeply for her and I do not want to hurt her.
>> Like, I understand you don't want to hurt her, but she also hurt you. Being pregnant does not excuse you from like having to face the consequences of your actions. I understand you don't want to stress her out and stuff like that, but at the same time, you don't need to like yell at her, but you do need to say something or don't like I don't know like avoid the topic if you need to. But like this obviously hurt you.
As much as I love the stonewalling and avoidance and stuff like that, I do hate conflict. But I recently resolved a conflict for the most part where I said how I truly felt after honestly like 6 months of like saying nothing. It gave me time to understand why I was upset and time to like not be angry. So I'm not mad about how I handled it. I feel like I needed to calm down because I also was like left out of things and like wasn't treated as a friend and that hurt me. I did tell her eventually how I felt and at least there's no more confusion now. I'm not sure if I feel better because I don't know if things are going to change. I at least want there to be no confusion about why I was upset and why the friendship kind of like fizzled out.
>> So tell her when you're ready. Maybe wait till after your her she gives birth or something like that. But I I you need to tell her. Like you you absolutely need to tell her. She acts just as kind and caring. Just distance and our interactions seem more and more superficial. How does it take a week to remember telling your best friend you got married? Am I overreacting?
>> No, you're not. She's treating you like you're not a close friend anymore. And that's hurtful because you consider her a very good friend. Top comment said, "Sounds like she isn't as good of a friend as you thought." Yeah, there you go. And it hurts to find that out. Like it really really does. But at the end of the day, it's like the person that you're protecting is also the person that hurt you. Maybe take some time, figure out how you want to say it. Say it calmly. Always start with like I feel hurt. Like don't come at it with anger, but like you should tell her how you feel. She's not your best friend. Sorry.
>> Yeah, this is like inconceivable for me. This is sadly the age when childhood friends pass into acquaintances. I'd recommend that you go out into the world and look for more friends. This girl will probably come back to you when she needs you again. I mean, I didn't want to say it, but but you need to find friends who put similar amount of work into their friendships. It hurts a lot to find out that the person that you love, like a sibling, doesn't feel the same. I'm sending you hugs. Yes, big hugs. Big big big hugs. It happens. I get it. It really sucks. Like, it's almost worse than like like a breakup, like a romantic breakup when this happens with someone that you really really care about as a friend. It's really, really hard to get over, especially when you've known them for so long. Like, it's just, it's so tough. I definitely empathize with you there. Sometimes friendships fizzle out, sometimes they end. You should talk to her about it and come tell us what happened.
So, are you overreacting? No. She says good.