Struggling With Self-Sabotage? (Watch This)

Foreign to be pretty forgetful, but my husband, when we fight, he's been kind of like bringing up my forgetfulness and, you know, making it seem sad. Basically, how can I just help him understand where I'm coming from?

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What up, what up? Hey, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad that you're with us. The greatest show, literally, it's ever been recorded, ever, ever. And you showed up, and I'm so grateful. Uh, on the show, we talk about mental health, marriage, whatever's going on in your life, actually, um, all the things. Uh, if you want to be on the show, I'm not saying I'm very good at this, but if you want to hang out and chat on the phone, um, give us a buzz. You can do one of two things. You can go to JohnDeloney.com/ask, fill out the form, or you can give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. 1-844-693-3291. Leave a message, and we'll get back to you. And, uh, I said this last time, and I want to say it again, um, we put out just a call for folks to write in and give some feedback for the show. I just want to say thank you for that. Those of you who had some criticisms, thank you for that. Those of you who just wrote in to say really nice things, thank you. Um, those who did both, I'm, I'm just so grateful. Um, and there was a lot of important call-outs, um, how it sometimes comes across that I, I am too nice to women doing dumb things and I'm too mean to men, and I, I don't get the balance right sometimes, that I'm, I'm yelling all the time for no reason. So there's some great feedback, and a lot of it was really accurate. And so, um, I'm taking it under advisement and I'm gonna do my best to make a more palatable show. And the horse noises may return. That's all I'm gonna say about that. Um, all right, let's go to Sacramento, California, and talk to Kayla. What's up, Kayla?

Hey, can you hear me?

I can. Can you hear me?

I can hear you great. Excellent. What's up?

Um, first of all, thanks for taking my call and thank you, Jenna, for giving me a call. Um, I am like, super nervous right now. I like, never understand why anybody's nervous when I listen to your show, and now that I'm here, I'm like, oh my gosh.

Okay, listen, it's just you and me and like, millions of other people listening to this. It's not about right? It's not a big deal. Not scary at all.

Exactly. Uh, so, okay, so I think I'm going to just give a little context first and then ask my questions because it'll make a little bit more sense that way.

Cool. But basically, what I'm calling is, um, I have a tendency to be pretty forgetful. Um, and, um, nothing, I mean, to me, that seems like out of the norm or, you know, crazy. Like, you know, I forget where I put things, and we get to respond to texts or send texts to people. Um, I'm a stay-at-home mom, so, you know, during doing certain things around the house, um, non-routine appointments, sometimes I forget those. Um, and then, you know, like if I'm meeting up with a friend, I just blank on everything that we talked about last time we hung out. So anyways, um, but my husband recently has been, when we fight, he's been kind of like bringing up my forgetfulness and, you know, making it seem super, um, like bad, basically. And, um, you know, he's like, "I think the reason why you're forgetting things is because, uh, they're not priorities. Um, and if you just prioritize things better, then you wouldn't forget." Um, and in my mind, you know, I'm thinking, okay, well, I'm a stay-at-home mom, I have two babies under two, and I already struggle with like anxiety. Um, and, you know, especially when I get super stressed out and I'm having a conversation with him, um, I just freeze up. And, you know, when he asks me something to remember back to, you know, another event, I blink, I'm like, I have no idea. So anyways, basically, what I want to know is, you know, like, could he be right? Is there something that I'm not seeing? Um, I genuinely want to know. And, um, also, how can I just help him understand where I'm coming from, especially when we're in conflict, when we're, um, fighting, I guess?

Awesome. Great questions. Um, so a couple of quick background questions. Do you have a trauma background or no?

Uh, what I mean by trauma, I mean, my parents were divorced, and I would say yes, like it was a, kind of a catastrophe. My dad describes it as, um, for all of my siblings.

Okay. I just wanted to play this out how you told that. Um, I think this is important. Um, uh, define trauma. I mean, they're divorced, my dad calls it a catastrophe, right? Um, so we don't have to dig into all that. Here's, um, I'm trying to figure out the right place to start. I'm gonna get a little bit nerdy, and I'm gonna try to keep it as non-nerdy as possible. And just know, when I do this, my neuroscience friends all send me direct messages and they're like, "Oh my gosh, you blew it." Alone. Okay? So just know that I'm not gonna make anybody happy with this, but I think it's important. Um, okay, the amygdala and the hippocampus are these little parts of your brain that help deal with your body's fear response, okay? And, um, the hippocampus works, does other things like memory and spatial functionings, like where are you? And it helps influence emotional regulation. All this stuff. But here's what's important, that the parts of your brain that are, are closely, are dealing with, is this a fear? Is this a threat? Is there too much coming into the system at once, are also where a lot of your brain does its memory storage and retrieval. And that makes sense over time. And memories, uh, scattered throughout the brain. That's not, those aren't the only two places. But here's why that's important. Um, think of it this way. You can be watching a football game, and you can look at the game and be like, "Why aren't they scoring?" And somebody would look at you and say, "Well, they're playing defense right now. Like, the offense isn't even on the field. They're trying to not let the other team score right now." And so if you think about a world that is a body that has been negotiating trauma for a long time, a body that's anxious, a body that, um, has two little kids and is trying to figure out what just happened to my own body, what happened to my life, what happened to my marriage, what happened to all these things? You have a brain that is decidedly trying to not die right now. And the thought that it's gonna spend energy making new memories and remembering things that aren't about not dying, it's very common for people who struggle with anxiety to have short-term memory. Like, "I just forgot that thing. I just, I blew right past it." Because you got a body that's just sprinting and fighting and running for its life. That makes sense?

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And, okay, so, and your husband's got a point. You can't be in a relationship if you forget things all the time. You can't be in a relationship with somebody else if they have, they pour their heart out to you and you just let it, you don't do the things upstream that make it, make you able to hear those conversations and connect. Same with your friends, same with doctor's appointments. And so I'm gonna, I want to give you a context, not an excuse. Okay? You and I could probably spend a couple hours together, and you could tell me some stories from your past that would probably blow my mind. Fair enough?

Yes.

Okay. Um, I want you to know you're not broken. You're not screwed up. You have a brain that's just trying to protect you, and it probably has been for a long time. And you're a wife, you signed up for a lifetime relationship. You got two little kids, you signed up for two lifetime relationships. And you're just probably a pretty good friend, too, right?

Yeah, I try.

What a flex. Like, yeah, I mean, I try. All right. So, um, the healing's gonna be in two ways here. Number one, you have to work towards building a non-anxious life. And that's really hard with two little kids. What does that look like? That probably looks like you, for the first time in your life, saying needs out loud. Saying, "I need help with, could you be a part of this? I don't like it when you fill in the blank. I really need a night off tonight." How good are you at saying your needs out loud, actually?

I'm pretty good. Um, who knows? I'm pretty vocal about my needs. Um, I just kind of grew up in a family like that. Um, can I, are they, are they needs? Are they demands?

That's a good question. Because I could demand the dishes get put away in the right way. That's different than, "I need some help."

Yeah, I, I try my best to format them as questions because I know, you know, I want to respect him and I want to, you know, not just bully him around. But, um, okay, so I'm gonna stop right there. That's the problem. And people listening are gonna go, "What?" Asking questions and being kind, asking questions can be really, really passive-aggressive. And I would much rather a couple sit down, not in a fight, not in a discussion, but say, "All right, we're entering into, it's Sunday night, we're entering into this week. What does this week look like calendar-wise? What's this week look like budget-wise? Like, how are you doing? What, how can I love you best this week?" And then it's, "Hey, would you pick up the dishes?" If, if I walk in after a wild day of recording shows and doing interviews and I walk in, um, and then my wife's like, "Hey, would you do that?" That's different than that. Because what she's, she's not saying, "Would you?" She's saying, "Do this," and she's wrapping it up in a nice pretty package. It would be much, I would love to have some headspace that suggests that I'm like, "Hey, uh, I know when I get home, I'm gonna still be fully on and I'm gonna be still fully participating because we've already talked about this because she texted me at 3 PM saying, 'Today's been hell. I need some help when you get home.'" "Awesome, I'm in." See what I'm saying? So I would suggest figuring out a way to be more direct. And y'all do this together. A lot of times, folks who have not been direct, but they just talk around it, directness comes out really sharp and hard, and then the other person's like, "Whoa." Right? So it's just learning how to say, like, "Here's what I need," in a, I guess it's all good, just normal context, right? Um, here's, here's the other thing. Um, I want you to get really intentional about writing things down. If you know you struggle with remembering things, then I'm gonna put it on you to start making plans for how you can remember things better. It's why I, I struggle with anxiety. I always, I have for years. I always carry a note card with me. What's, with what's going on today? I just keep it with me all the time because my memory is not trustworthy. I've learned that. I forget everything. Impact. And I still got to change the oil, and I still got to show up to my kids' game, and I still gotta go pick up my daughter from whatever because I said I would. That make sense?

Yeah.

So when I say that, does that sound like an attack, or is that, um, do you, or do you know, like, "All right, that's fair." You say, like, um, my husband, I don't really know how to describe this, like it kind of takes me off guard, honestly. If, like, he did take something offensive, um, you know, if I were to, like, ask him to do something or whatever, um, I think he would prefer me to ask him, um, rather than demand it, because he's kind of like this guy that's like, you know, "I want to feel respected as like the man of our relationship." And, um, anyway, so asking him to do things, um, I don't think he really minds it, and he usually responds pretty well. However, there is something actually, as they were, um, talking, that I remembered is, um, one, I think our most recent argument that we had, I was like, you know, after he was telling me, you know, "You're forgetting these things and you're just not prioritizing," you know, whatever it was that you said, um, he was like, uh, or I asked him, I'm like, "Can you help me remember? You know, can you, um, you know, because I try to set reminders on my phone and, um, you know, or have him text me a text message and I'll just leave it unread so I can always have it on my phone notifications." Um, so I try to do things. It's just with our little ones, it's not always like, like I'm super distracted all the time. So, um, anyway, so I asked him, I'm like, "Hey, you know, can you just remind me? You know, like, you obviously know that's not the strengths of mine, but it is of yours. You know, is that something that you can help me with?" And his response to me was, you know, "I can't just always be doing that for you, and, you know, like, you need to be self-sufficient." And, you know, like, "I could probably help you here and there, but you, you have to like figure it out pretty much." And I was just like, like when he said that, I was honestly just pretty hurt by it, you know? Because I'm like, "Okay, you're my husband. I thought we're supposed to try and be a team here." And, you know, it's something that you're asking, you're asking him to be a parent.

Yeah. And I want you to start leaning into this. Is gonna sound crazy. I want you to start leaning into not having your life dragged around by two toddlers. The greatest gift you can give those two toddlers, to infants, is you make sure you're well. And I know they got to eat on a schedule, and they gotta sleep. I get that. But the number of kids who run their households, and their parents are left haggard and beat down in the wake of what these kids are demanding and needing and wanting, and all it's chaos. I want you to flip around and take ownership of that. That doesn't mean you're not gonna be exhausted. Of course you are. Doesn't mean you're not gonna be frustrated. Of course, sure. You got two little ones. But I want you to be on top, on the on the front end of it, not just a passive recipient. And when you ask, um, and, and I didn't, I didn't word this right. I'm not saying make demands of your husband. There's a difference between barking orders and passively. Because here's a good example. You said, "Would you just remind me?" And he said, "No." And you didn't have a comeback for that other than you were just hurt by it. And so when you ask a question, you're inviting somebody to give their feedback, right? They give their answer. And that's not what needs are. Needs are a gentle, "I need some support and help here." And you're also asking them, like I said, you're asking me to be your dad. "Hey, will you tell me when school starts? Will you remind me to change my underwear and to put on deodorant, brush my teeth?" Like that. Like, so there is partnership, and there is working together. And there's, there is this is a wild season. I would much rather you sit down and say, "Hey, I'm really scared about this. Motherhood is, is harder on me than I thought it was going to be. Um, I need some help around here. I want to hire some help around here. I need a week, once a week, I need to go spend some time with some girlfriends and just not have kids all over me. I need to fill in the blank. Like, I need these things. Our life is really overscheduled right now, and I need a way to take some, take some of the things off the calendar." I often, um, and there's some great research on clutter and anxiety. I often am guilty of leaving a bunch of unread emails, a bunch of unread texts on my phone, and it starts to make me bananas, right? It's not actually helping. My brain is still running, "Gotta do that thing, gotta do that thing, gotta do that thing." And then I'm on to the next thing, and I'm on to the next thing. And then I get another text, another text, another text. And so many of them, I've just had to start saying, "I'm not going to get back to this one," and I'll just mark it on red. But that's me taking ownership of my calendar. There's two or three unreads right now, and I'll get them before the end of the day. That's, that's kind of my 24-hour rule with myself. But the more you allow these things to build and build and build and build and build, you're just signaling to your about, you're creating a world your body can't exist in. Just too much, just too much, too much, too much, too much. So if you think about unread messages, if you think about about unread texts or unresponded to emails, just think of somebody knocking on your door and you don't answer it, and you're just gonna let them keep knocking because you'll answer them later. And then somebody else starts ringing the doorbell, and then somebody else just starts yelling through the window, and somebody else just starts calling your phone. You can't do anything after that. And that's what's happening inside your head when you just let stuff go, let stuff go, let stuff go. All I have to say is this: You've created a very anxious world for yourself. And that's super common with toddlers. And now your husband's getting frustrated because his world looks different. You're frustrated because your world looks different. And it's time for you and your husband to get together and create a whole new world, a whole new planet for how we're gonna operate here. And I want you to practice remembering, practice writing things down, practice leaning into those things, and also practice saying your needs in a kind, gentle way, not in a demand way, not in a catching somebody off guard way, but letting people know ahead of time. And, um, if you find that you're being gaslit on some things, that your husband's like, "Oh, you forgot I said that." Maybe he didn't. Maybe he didn't. And that's where writing things down is important because you can come back. And if he's kind of jerking you around a little bit, that's important too. Um, but you're not crazy. You're like an exhausted mom that the world's just happening to. And I want to encourage you to get some women in your life that you can walk alongside and begin to get on top of this, of the crest, the wave here, right? So the water's not just blasting in your face. Crest the wave here. And then you can start to take ownership of the calendars, take ownership of these kids' routines, take ownership of what you need in your home, and asking for those needs, ownership of, "I forget stuff a lot, so I'm gonna start leaning into some practices where I can start remembering things a little bit better." You're on the right path. You're on the right path. Thanks for the call, Kayla. We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back. Hey, a few weeks ago, if you remember, if you listen to all the shows, um, I had a call scheduled with a firefighter, and right before he came on, he got called to an actual fire. And so we rescheduled the call, and he is here. What's up, Neil? How we doing, brother?

How you doing, Doctor?

Thanks for your time.

Of course, man. Thank you for your time. And thank you for taking care of our communities when I'm sound asleep and my kids are sound asleep. I'm grateful for you, man.

Yeah, I, uh, first and foremost, I do need to apologize. I know it's a tough, I put you in the tough spot. Um, who literally was my neighbor. You're fighting fires. I run my mouth on a, on a, on a B-rated podcast. Our job comparison is of no comparison.

Kelly's like, "No, this is an A." "This is not an A." "This is, hey, Kelly, it's not an A." "Yes, it is." I'm gonna say it today. This is a B at best.

Thank you, Neil, man. You do your thing. Neil, and we'll reschedule every single time we need to. So what's up, man?

I, uh, so I called in a couple of weeks ago when you're on the Dave Ramsey Show, and, and I'm sorry I even called in a little late on that show. I wish we, I would have had a few more minutes to talk because it does kind of concern both of you, if you will. Yeah. Um, I, I followed the Dave Ramsey program. We're doing well. We've got a good job. We've eliminated debt minus the mortgage. And so as we continued on that path, what's happened over the last two or three years because of, um, just this role that I play with the fire department, we've encountered a number of children who have passed, pass on scene. And unfortunately, I've been on a lot of those calls. And so as that has happened, it's put me in this mindset where I'll come home, and the kids will say, and I have, I have four daughters, which is just beautiful, wonderful. And they'll say, "Hey, Dad, I really want to see this or do that. I want to go there." And because I'm in this mindset, I, I just kind of book it and go. And so I'm kind of breaking my policy with what I've done with my debt. I've broken into a few of my, um, savings accounts and made sure that I had that time and that memory with my kids. And I, I always tell, so beyond being a firefighter, I have a full-time job. And I tell my team, when you, before you come to me, I want you to ask yourself one question: Is the house on fire, or are we out of coffee? Keep it simple, right? And so at this point, I'm a little nervous with where I'm at. I feel like this fire is at the incipient stage, and I feel like it could progress. So I'm trying to head it off. And that's why I called.

I love that, man. Um, and I, I, I take so many calls on this show and then also on that show that very few of them stick with me long-term, and yours did. In fact, I took some time the following day, um, our call that we had together, and if you want to go back, we'll link to that call in the show notes here if you want to go back and listen to the original call. I was on the show with Dave Ramsey, and you called in, brother. I had, in talking to you, I had some memories of some situations that I hadn't thought about in years. And I got a little girl too. And it was like, I, I had some time. I just been with myself, right? So let me ask you a broader, um, zoom out picture here. The, the picture you're painting is of a guy, um, who has a lot going on, and a guy who is constantly being called up for service to his family. You're a great father, you're a great husband, a great firefighter. You're also a business leader, and you do good at that. And the one person that you've left off the helping list is you. Am I right or wrong?

Yeah, I think I said the last time, "I'm the guy you call for help, not when I'm not the one to call for help." You know?

Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I forgot that I said that. Like, most firefighters, hey, I just want to call it out. What it is, um, most firefighters are told, "If you have a problem, come see your supervisor, go to your chain of command." And nobody in the world in that, in a first responder situation, is gonna go tell their boss they're struggling with anxiety, or struggling with depression, or, "Hey, I've seen too many kids pass away this month. I can't do it. I need to, I need a break." Can't do that because they're gonna kick you off to death duty. You're gonna roll you all off of patrol. They're gonna, so you just gotta sit on it. Or they give you some counselor that has got a reporting line to some, right? So you just say, they, so folks say nothing. And then, you know, the amount of first responders who are struggling with substance abuse, who cheat on their spouses, who are have all sorts of other issues going on in their lives. And I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt because they see this stuff all day long, and there's nowhere to go. And I'll, you are too valuable to not take care of, my friend. Neil, so my question, how do you do that? Or what? Let me ask this. Why won't you do that? I'll just be super direct. Why won't you do that?

Well, if I had a chance to read your book, and one of the questions that you pose early on, um, like after World War II, we have this abundance of money and credit, and people were able to get what they want now. They could get it at an instant. And that has never really left our culture, our society. Um, and you pose the question, "Why?" And so I thought about that, and I have been. And so I think about it, "What if I lose this moment with my kids?" And that's my why. But I need to do this now. I need to make this memory now because when we are doing something in Florida or as a national park or whatever, we're completely unplugged and we're completely together. But we're not that when we're here at home. When we're at home, we're running.

Why have you chosen that life?

Oh God. Um, why not? We're Americans, right? There you go. So you, you run in this country. I, I, I know. And we've created worlds that we literally have to escape from. We have to do everything. And we've created worlds that are so abundant and so fast-moving that we have to pay more money to leave them to get away from them. And that, my friend, is insane.

Yeah, but here we are. But here we are. And I don't, and I don't know what my next step is because I, since we've talked, my kids sat down and they talked about National Park. They were looking through these beautiful books that we have. And one of them said, "I want to go to Glacier." Guess what? It's booked. I've done that since we've last talked. Yeah. And listen, you know your kids know that when you get to do something nice for them, it lights you up. And so they love it when Dad's lit up. And so they're gonna find cool things that they like and bring them to Dad so that Dad lights up. And then they feel like they're bonding in that relationship. If you go to a bunch of water balloons after school today, and it cost you a dollar 59 at Walgreens, and after school today, I don't know how much balloons cost, maybe it's five bucks. Um, you had them in buckets, and your daughters came home, all four of them, and you said, "You guys got three minutes to hide." And it's game on. They would tell that story at your funeral, not the Glacier Park story.

Yeah, I know. I know. Here's the thing. You're creating memories. You're trying to hedge against the fact that someday something bad is going to happen to one of your daughters. You're trying to hedge the fact that you have seen these moms and dads that cannot physically stand up because they have fallen down at a crime scene, they've fallen down at a wreck scene. You've seen it. You probably helped pick them up, right? Yeah. You ever held a mom who just lost her baby, lost her kid? Yeah. It's a different hug, isn't it? Yeah. You can't breathe. It's a strange hug. If there's a strength that I was caught off guard the first time a woman was saw her kid who had died and turned and I was just happened to be there and grabbed me with a hug that was of such a ferocity that I was caught off guard by it. I didn't know strength could come from that small of a person. It was like a, "I'm falling, catch me" hug, right? Yeah. You're trying to hedge against that by spending a bunch of money you don't have and creating hype and hoopla and and smoke and fireworks for four little girls that just really want their dad. Yeah. You and, uh, Dave mentioned that doesn't, doesn't cost anything. I don't know. I, there are just so many distractions. I mean, in your book, you outline, you know, how many, how many devices do you have? How much time are you on that screen? And how much time per day, per week? I, I do, I think about that. I consider that. And then I also, I've even played the tough guy, like, "We're gonna shut down. We are going to take those devices. We're gonna play a board game." And we have, we do that. But it's, it's just, it's not the, it's not the moment that we have when, when we're completely disconnected. When we are in a tent in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of a park, there's no cell service, there's no nothing. There's just us. And I, I am desperately trying to recreate that in my personal life, and I just don't know how to do it because it, we get those dings, we hear the emails, like everything draws us and pulls us away. And then, what's your other job? What's your other job?

So I, um, I'm a director at the largest publishing firm in the, uh, country.

I'm gonna be super direct with you. Is that cool?

I have, you're headed for an implosion, my brother. I have conversations with some of the most intelligent people in the world.

Enlisted beautiful jobs. It is. It is. And you also know that some of those people are hyper, hyper intelligent, and they're bonkers too, right? Yeah. So intelligence gets you part of the way. Um, I'm gonna be super direct, man. You're headed for an implosion. You're headed for a crash. I can hear it. You got on the treadmill, and the sucker's on 15, and it won't go any higher, and you can run no faster, and you don't know how to get off. And you're like, "You are killing it in your other job. You're showing up in the middle of the night doing gnarly things, and you got four daughters that you're trying to raise." And if you think about it the other way, maybe it's that those places that your, their daughters get you unplugged finally. I mean, I was, I was on the road this week in Georgia. So on Sunday, flew home Wednesday. I was in meetings until 5 PM, and then we have drills every Wednesday night until 10 o'clock.

So what are you running for, man? What are you running from?

Neil, um, I don't, I don't think I'm running. Here's the deal is, I, I honestly, God, feel like my, my daytime job, I love it because I feel like I'm providing education to the masses, and we're doing a great job because education is the way out for a lot of people who especially have economic boundaries, right? Um, in the evening, I'm waiting for my pager to go off because somebody in my community, like my neighbor last week or two weeks ago, they needed help. I can help. I have a helping hand, and I can do this.

You're gonna be of no help to anybody when you're dead. You're gonna be of no help to anybody, Neil. After your fourth drink again. You're too smart for your own good, and you've wrapped your, you've wrapped your pathology in altruism. You're a great human being, and you use that as an excuse to not sit at home and be still.

Yeah, I don't, I'm not gonna argue that because you don't think you have value in and of yourself. Your value is only found in your utility.

Is there a problem with that? Truly?

Yes. I mean, yes, because at some point, because at some point, Neil, you can't be that guy that shows up. Or at some point, your daughter is gonna have a wedding, and you're gonna get a pager number. I left my brother's wedding to go deal with a car accident, and I will go to the grave with that one because I screwed that up. I said, "My role in my community is more important than looking my brother and saying, 'I honor you. I'm gonna spend the day with you on one of your most happiest days of your life.'" I missed it, man. I screwed it up because I put all my worth in this thing that I do for other people, and I had taken, had no worth in my brother just wants me to sit by him at his wedding and say, "This is incredible. Let's dance and eat." I missed it. And the more we think that our only value is in what we do, the more we just chase more things to do, and we get pushed that thing more and more and more and more and more. You're talking to a dude with two PhDs, man. I didn't get that because I'm super smart. I get that because I was running for myself. And while I was getting a PhD, I was working full-time as a dean of students at a law school, and I was also running crisis calls in the middle of the night. Absolutely. Because I missed my son's childhood. I've got some great stories, and I've got some great experiences, and I helped a lot of people, and I missed some things that I could never get back.

Well, let me ask you this. How do we move forward from here? I am so ingrained in what I do, and I have a team of eight that call, and I, and my team, unfortunately, I kind of have a unique circumstance with my full-time job because I have a rep down in Florida in Orlando, and then I also have a rep that's up in Spokane. So I am going from seven until seven, per se.

Neil, you're, and I am listening. You're a prisoner. You're a prisoner. And your body tells you the only way we can be free is on a mountain with no cell service, man. But it is beautiful there. Yeah, it is. It's incredible. It's amazing. Listen, if Dave Ramsey called me today and said, "Hey, my buddy has, uh, a jet that's worth $10 million, and he's gonna sell it, and I talked to him into selling it to you for $2 million. It's a deal of a lifetime." I would have to say, "That's amazing, dude. I would love a $10 million jet that I could buy for $2 million. I don't have $2 million, so I'm gonna have to pass." Glacier National Park is, is breathtaking, stunning, can't breathe, it's so beautiful, and we can't afford it. Created a, uh, you've created your prison. Locked from the inside, dude. Here's, here's the place to start. Um, I want you to spend some time with that question, and since, and I want to ask you to write it down. What's Neil running from? If, if Neil suddenly couldn't be a firefighter, if Neil suddenly lost his job as the book publisher, who is Neil? Does that Neil have value to his daughters, to his wife, to his community? What I'll tell you is, only because I open up my hands and started trying to be all, stop trying to be all things to all people, only then could I truly show up and be a gift. Here's the deal. I always thought that there were these elements that people had to fulfill throughout their life that it to continue on with this goal, this dream, this country, what we're doing, our forefathers. I mean, it wasn't easy. Like, they, there's, there's time, toil, blood. That's all here. I want to continue that, not just for me, but for everybody that comes behind me. That's fair. And I do carry that weight. I carry that weight earnestly. I, I wasn't in the military. She probably should have been. Um, but I carry that, and I carry that every day. And I want to make sure that everything I do, that everything behind me is, is a smoother, or a smoother pass for those evolved. And here's the deal. I love that. I love that. And, uh, I remember sitting down, having a private conversation with Jocko, and I talked for a while about that very same thing. And he told me, "John, people for, because I was, I was pushing him on it like, man, you run and gun, you do all this and this and this." And he said something that was really important for me to hear. "John, men throughout all of human history have left their families for months or years at a time to go defend a land." And he was right. That's true. The question you have to ask yourself is, if that's your path, then that's your path. I'm not gonna take your path from you. You want to die on the battlefield? Good for you. I'm off. Go for it. Okay? That doesn't give license to be irresponsible with your finances. So let me say this. If you're going to die on this battlefield, making the world better for everybody else, um, then go all the way and do it with integrity. And know that it's gonna come at a cost. You can't do all that stuff and not miss games. You can't do all that stuff and not miss weddings. You can't do all that stuff and have your wife going to bed by herself a lot. You can't do all those things and go on all the family vacations too. Just can't. Yeah, you gotta choose. And if you're gonna choose one, you gotta make peace with the other.

I think I'm here because I don't, I don't, I don't want to keep going down this path. That's what I think.

I agree with that. I also know that in my life, I'm just speaking for me, when I start getting existential and global, that's when my anxiety is at its highest, and it is just looking for things to spin up about. So I guess I get you. I'm asking, okay, pray. Um, I'm looking, I mean, you give me a Dave Ramsey plan, I will follow that day in the day out, step by step, and we're gonna achieve. And I did. How do I, how do I, like, I don't know how the heck you would even formulate a plan for this scenario. What do I do?

I want you to get off the phone, and I want you to go to PsychologyToday.com. I want you to go through the list of local counselors and psychologists in your area and just scroll down until you find one that you read their little bio and think, "This person is going to be, this might be the one for me." I want you to make that call. And when you sit down with the counselor, the psychologist, and they say, "Why are you here?" I want you to tell them, "I am an executive, I'm a firefighter, and I saw four dead children this month." And start there. And by the way, if you want to be a real gangster about it, you can say, "One of them, her name was Susan, and she was six. And one of them, his name was Stephen, and he was four. He was wearing blue jeans." Let's get real specific. That's where you start. And by the way, you are, uh, that's one of the truest marks of bravery. I can, I can account for. Most people don't understand this, but it's, it's easy to go run into an active shooter situation when you're trained for it. I honestly, it's easy. It becomes, it becomes part of your training. You just go, right? You just go, right? You're like that dude. You see a wreck, you just go. I'm driving down the road, and there's a wreck. My wife will literally, I'll pull over the car, and she'll just start sliding over in the driver's seat because she knows her husband's getting out. She just knows that, right? And I'm not even a trained firefighter. Courage is when it's scary. And sitting down in front of another person and saying, "I'm not okay." That's real scary to somebody who's everyone comes to for the answers. Hey, Neil, here. Neil, she knows. She knows she's married to a, uh, as I put in the book, she's married to a taser. She knows.

Oh, man. Why are you so scared to tell her that?

I'm not okay.

She knows you're not.

Yeah, I know. She though. She thinks you're dishonest, man. Or worse, she thinks she's not trustworthy enough to be a part of the parts that really hurt for you. Nah, she's, she's laid some of this framework here that I led up to this conversation. And good for her. She's a smart woman. They are. You, you love you some smarts. Yeah. But I, uh, I just, I don't know when to call it. And that's right now, that's what scares me the most.

Don't mate. Don't make an after-plan right now. The first plan is get out of the building. So the first plan, like you're trying to, like the house is on fire, and you're trying to start drawing up architecture plans for the rebuild. Get out. That is a great analogy. Just call the counselor, call a psychologist, and say, "I need to talk." And you can say, "I don't buy into this stuff. I think this is for weak people. This is not for me." But here we are. I'm not. And here's the, here's the beautiful part. When it's all said and done, I actually work more hours than I used to. Crazy, right? Yeah. I'm actually an infinitely better dad and an infinitely better husband. I got more going on. The difference is, those things that are going on are not me trying to convince myself that I've got worth and value. Those things that are going on are now things I can do freely because I'm anchored into the bedrock of my marriage. I'm anchored into the bedrock of my local community. And because I did that work, because I'm working hard to create a non-anxious life where I'm not overscheduled and overzealous and overrunning, and there's always electronics, all the stuff that we've, the world we've created. Because that's where the hard work is now, man. I can go run if I need to do something in the middle of the night and show up somewhere weird. I can go show up somewhere. That's fine. I'll be tired the next day. That's cool. Because my identity, my worth's not tied to it. Yours is. And I'm gonna tell you right now, it's gonna be a hard road. It's a hard road to untangle all that. It's gonna be messy, messy, messy, messy, messy. And I have one thousand percent confidence that you can get there. And I'm proud of you. And I'm, I'm grateful for you. I will be with you every step of the way. Call me anytime. Shoot me a direct message, and I'll, we can figure out a way to communicate offline if you need to. But I'll walk alongside you. Can't be a therapist or a counselor because I'm not even one of those at all. But I'll be willing to pitch in where I can. Man, your community needs you, and your family needs you. Neil needs you. Grateful for you, man. We'll be right back.

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Hey, good folks. John Deloney here. I fell through a glitch in the Matrix. This is my job. I get to have this show, do this show, walk.

alongside each one of you as a career. This is what I do, and I have a blast doing it. And me and the team, we're so thankful for all of you for being a part of our show. Whether you're one of the original 17, or you're one of the millions that's come since then, we are so grateful for you. And we want to put together the best possible show that we can. So if you're one of the Originals, or if you're brand new, we want your feedback. Tell us what you love about the show, what you hate about the show, what you'd like to see more of, what you'd like to hear more of, and what you want us to never do again. You can email us at askjohn@ramseysolutions.com. That's askjohn@ramseysolutions.com with your feedback. Thank you for being such an important part of the show. Rock on.

All right, let's take one more. Let's go out to Jessica in Seattle. What's up, Jessica?

Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

Good. How are you?

I am doing fantastic. It's, this feels a little surreal. I'm really happy to talk to you. I don't ever get to talk to Seattle people. It's the home place. That's the birthplace of, uh, Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains and all the good sound.

Gard. It is. We're just up here being depressed so we can't get on the phone to call you because the weather's so bad. I know. We don't have any good music coming out of Nashville because we're all too busy being outside and enjoying the weather and all that kind of, all that vitamin D. See, we're so, we're so overjoyed, we don't know what to do with ourselves.

That's right. That's right. You guys got to work on that.

Well, we will. We will.

All right, so what's up? I want to ask you. I don't hear a lot of borderline personality questions from what I've listened to you before. I've got a 70-year-old mom with borderline personality disorder. I am her only child. She is divorced, and I'm kind of watching her taking a steep decline since she and my dad got divorced. And I just need some advice from you on what you think I should do, or if I should be doing any more than I'm already doing.

Who diagnosed her? Is that a true diagnosis? Was that just off the internet, or the therapist that she's been meeting reviewed her notes from when she was hospitalized maybe like 30 years ago, and there was a BPD diagnosis in there?

So not helpful.

Okay. Yeah. So this is totally like, very new information for me. But when I looked into it, it completely checks out. Yeah. So one, I don't like cold case diagnostics. I don't like looking at data from 30 years ago and trying to retro a situation.

Okay. Okay. Here's why. Um, because 30 years ago, they were not asking questions about trauma. They weren't asking questions about environment. They weren't asking questions about grief. So, okay. Meaning, you could do an intake at some of these places and your husband had just died, and they would ask you on the questionnaire, are you having suicidal thoughts? Yes. Or have, are you struggling with this? Yes. Are you struggling with this? Yes. Bam, diagnosis. And so there's, I, I don't, she needs to go get checked out now. He's gonna sit with somebody now. If she will, if she won't, she won't. He is actively in, in therapy or counseling of some sort now.

Okay. All right. So let's, let's move over to, she truly has borderline personality disorder. Um, I'm of the opinion outside of, of what I would call true psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia, those are challenging. Um, but there's, there's entire specialties there. Borderline personality disorder is, I think it's the toughest thing to deal with, both as a clinician, both as a family member, both as somebody suffering from borderline personality disorder. Here's why.

Yeah, your core signals are off. Yes. Fear, love, on my team, against me. Those are so, um, amplified in a way that, okay. I mean, you, if you grew up with it, and it's true, then there were days when your mom would hold your face and look at you in the eyes and say, "Every day of my life, I thank God that you're my daughter. You're the greatest daughter that has ever existed." And as a 10-year-old, you can hardly breathe because your chest is so puffed up and you're, you're so excited. And then later that afternoon, your mom will sit down and take a knee and say, "Everything about you disgusts me. My life would be so much better if you weren't here." And you, as a 10-year-old, going, uh, right? Is that, is that, is that track?

Um, there were a lot of ups and downs. I think my mom did more sleeping than she did like laying into me, okay, about things. So avoidance. She, there, it was either she was feeling great and she was being crafty and creative, or she was sleeping, or she was down.

Yeah. Okay. That doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't ring the, the borderline bells to me. But we also had an opiate addiction because why not, right?

Yeah. Jessica, lead with that. Lead with that.

Um, I'm sorry. There's so many layers to this. I wasn't sure even what to start with.

Okay. I'm, I'm messing with you. I know this is, I, I'm, I'm trying to bring some levity. I know this is a mess. Um, so let's, let's, let's think outside the diagnosis.

Okay. Okay. And that's something with my, one of my friends call me when I'm just having a personal conversation with my buddies. That's one of the most common things to say is like, let's think out of the diagnosis. Let's just look at the world that's in front of us.

Okay. All right. You've got a mom that is, fill in the blank for me. She's what?

Uh, I have a mom who I haven't seen in six months. She lives five minutes from me.

Okay. You haven't seen her because she won't see you. You don't go over there. She's a hoarder because, uh, she is a hoarder. Uh, I think for the holidays, she opted out of the holidays. She said she wasn't feeling well. Okay. Uh, she, I didn't hear from her on my birthday, which this is the first year that's ever happened. Okay. I think she's just in such a deep, dark place right now that she doesn't want her grandkids to see her like that, and she doesn't want, um, she just wants to tell us she doesn't feel well to avoid any intervention we think we might need to have with her.

What has kept you from going to knock on the door and say, "You're my mom, and I love you, and you're not okay"?

Um, I don't know if I have a solution to offer her when she collapses and says, "I'm not okay." Because she's told me she's not okay for 43 years, and I don't feel equipped to solve whatever problem she, you know, presents to me.

Okay. Um, so one thing I would recommend you do, and and again, I want to honor this powerlessness. I get it. She's an adult, and there's nothing harder than seeing people that we love who are adults struggling, and they don't invite us into that conversation, or they present us, they drop bricks in our backpack that I don't know what to do with this. I don't have the training and all the skill set. I don't have anything like that.

Right. And so, um, I'm just gonna tell you, if this was my mom, what I would do because I don't have the training to sit down and do borderline personality disorder, and at 70, I can't imagine the entrenchment. Um, I, I've, I've never even read about somebody trying to heal from borderline at 70.

Okay. Yeah. I, I just walked alongside so many of my college students, and it was hard. It was really difficult because they had to learn that when they felt scared, that they might not, their bodies are lying to them. Is basically, you gotta, you gotta get to where I have to step back from my emotions and recalibrate. And it's just hard. It's really hard to do. Um, so if I'm you, I would reach out to her current therapist.

Do you know who that person is?

No, I don't.

Okay. Um, I would do everything I could to find out who that person is. Okay. And they can't, unless your, your mom has written a release to where you can talk to that person, they can't tell you that she's even a client. Um, okay. They can take information one way, meaning you can write her counselor a letter, but in writing or an email, and say, "My mom is expressing things in a way that is making me think she's suicidal, or she is on a deep negative trajectory. Yeah. I'm very worried about her, and I'm interested in partnering, partnering with you if you think there is a need." And a counselor, if there is a direct threat to self or others, can breach that confidentiality. It's a nuclear option, but they can do that. I'll also say, if she's seeing somebody, and this person is competent, and they're licensed, and all that stuff, right, then they should be trained to know, I'm watching a trend line here that is making me uncomfortable and making me nervous. I've got to reach out to, um, some lifeline. That's right. Okay. I've got to reach out to a psychiatrist, or to a team, or to a social worker, or a family, or whatever. Yeah. And so, um, and it may be that you ask your mom, um, "I'm not in a position. I, I don't know how to help you with your addiction, on how to help you with your mental health stuff. I would love to partner with your counselor so that you have support everywhere."

That's a good suggestion. And what she can do is sign a release and give you permission, their counselor permission to talk back and forth with you. Okay. To, right now, I think that's, she might be open to that. Okay. Sometimes they will write back and say, "I am not currently seeing a client named Kelly." Yeah. And sometimes that's a big indicator, right? Often they'll say that indicator. It's a big indicator. Maybe your mom's not seeing somebody you think she is.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Or that she saw somebody three years ago, and that's quote unquote her person, and so she's going to somebody, right?

Okay. All I have to say is this. Um, I'd also wouldn't, would reach out to Social Services or local services in your area that help the elderly. Possible have conversations about assisted living. If I don't know what your finances are. Um, we're having broader conversations now because we're 70 and Mom's still struggling with addiction, and now she's starting to shutter the doors, trying to disappear on us. Um, and again, I hate this because Mom can say, "Leave me alone." Oh my gosh, leave me alone. And I can't think of a more gut-wrenching, horrible, like situation to be in. Um, so let's, let's exhaust every possible avenue for support and care. You're not gonna be the therapist. You're not gonna be the person writing scripts. You're not gonna be the person actually doing the care. You're gonna, you might be the, the hub of the wheel for a while, playing traffic cop, playing direct, like, "If you talk to this person here, I've talked to this person." But at the end of the day, unfortunately, your mom's gonna have to make some final decisions. The last option you got is to file a petition with the local court to take away her her rights that she is incompetent too, she's unable to make decisions for herself. Um, she's a harm to self for others, and you need to step in. And that's gonna depend on, man, who is the, who's your caretaker? You have to give your religion, sisters, and have that conversation. That's a broader conversation, and that's a last option, right? Because you're saying this person can't take care of themselves. They can't make adult decisions for themselves. I need to step in to be their caretaker. Um, and then the burden of proof is on you to prove that this person can't do that. And that's, that's a tough, tough road to hoe. But, um, I wrote a hoe. But just for what it's worth, I'm grateful to know people like you love their mom. And I know that's been a tough, tough, tough life that you've lived with a woman who's had a lot of strong, really struggle. Um, let's think outside the diagnosis right now and focus less on Googling things about, you know, manic depressive, bipolar disorder, or Googling things about, um, borderline personality. Just all that stuff. And instead, let's focus on resources in our local community for helping Mom and bring in your brothers and sisters in on this one. I'm so sorry, Jessica. Let me know if I can help in any other way. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Now that my new book, "Own Your Past, Change Your Future," is out in the wild, we've been hearing reviews and feedback from readers, and wow, I'm so grateful. And one of the things I've been most excited about hearing is that this book is not just for people who are healing from terrible traumatic experiences or other big scary things from their past. This book is for everyone in every walk of life. The single 30-year-old looking to sharpen their mind, the 25-year-old hoping to make new friends, the parent who's tired of seeing their kids' eyes glued to a screen but who doesn't know how to re-enter their life, people coming out of abusive relationships, everyone. And this book isn't me talking at you. This book is me walking with you because I've been there too. To better understand and improve your mental, relational, and emotional health, please check out "Own Your Past, Change Your Future" at JohnDeloney.com today. That's JohnDeloney.com today.

All right, this is a huge day. Kelly, what is it?

It's not Taco Tuesday. It's even bigger. It's the best day of the year. Today is Texas's birthday.

Now, I'd like to state for the record, Texas doesn't have a birthday. It always has existed because we were our own country before time began. Yes, we're like Chuck Norris. But when the mortals decided to recognize us, I'm a Tennessean now. I guess I live here. Are you still claiming Texas? Still my home?

I've, I've lived here about equally as long in Tennessee, but I'm still a Texan. It's, it's ingrained. It's in your soul. There's just a pride there that people don't get.

Good job. Listen.

[Laughter] Bless them. Um, I, I was in, I think I told you, I was at a hunting trip in, in, uh, in another state, and they were telling me like, "Well, we can't do that on this land, and we can't do that on this land." And I kept saying, "This is your land." And they're like, "Yeah, we can't do that on this. We can't do that. We have to call this person to do this." And the Texan me was like, "They can't tell you what to do on your land." And they're like, "Uh, they for sure can." I was like, "Revolt." Like, anyway, they weren't having it.

So today's song of the day as we wrap it up, the one and only Gene Autry song called "Deep in the Heart of Texas." And it goes like this.

Stars at night, big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas. The prairie sky is wide and high. The coyotes wail along the trail. The rabbits rush around the brush. The chicken hawks are full of squawks. The oil wells are full of smells. And so has been. And the cactus plants are tough on pants. And that's why perhaps they all wear chaps. Perhaps maybe not. The cowboys cry, the doggies bawl, and say, "Y'all." The cactus plants are tough on pants, deep in the heart of Texas.

Stay tuned for more geography lessons. Love you guys.

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