What is Hell? | Testimony of Hell | Zane Pierre | Interview 6

[Music] What the hell's going on? We're going to talk about hell today. I'm kind of excited about this. Oh yeah, so I'm excited, man. We're continuing this series on hell. This is actually part six. We've had some pretty cool guests on, including you. You're, this is your second round here, Zane. We are excited to have you back. Actually, I, I have to like just say this, that I actually had quite a few people respond to the first video that we did with you, and it was actually, yeah, and they really enjoyed the video. They really enjoyed, you know, you guys' conversation and how you guys talked and worked through, or excuse me, how you broke down some stuff in the, um, in the meeting, and it was pretty awesome. And, uh, they liked it. They liked your concepts. They liked your ideas. Uh, they liked some of the, you know, angles you were bringing. And yeah, it was pretty cool. So I actually had some pretty cool, um, responses from that. So I think the viewers are going to be excited to be able to see round two. Well, if they liked part one, I guess part two should be digestible. Yeah, this is going to be fun because I think today we're going to talk a little bit about how, um, you know, scripture, hell, scripture, how they fit together and what this kind of looks like, you know, putting these things together. I know Brooke Potter talked a little bit about this. He did a great show. I saw his interview with. That's awesome. That was awesome. Yeah, I really enjoyed that. And, and I think this is important, Zane, because I think a lot of viewers, people are watching this right now, they're like, they've got these questions in their mind and they're trying to sift through it. Let me just start out and just, uh, just ask you this real quick. Um, let me just say this to everybody watching, if you just take a moment, guys, and share this, uh, with anybody that you might know. Go and just share this, uh, broadcast with them. Uh, that would be awesome because I think we're going to talk about some really good things that you are to benefit from today. It's going to be exciting. So just take a moment and share this broadcast on any of the platforms that you're involved with. But Zane, why, why is it so hard for people to, um, understand hell? Is it really, is it really like, um, a misunderstanding that you think it is? Or, or is it just, you know, is it just a mental block? Is it a theological block? Um, I mean, because I honestly can see some holes in some of the traditional teaching that I have, uh, actually listened to and heard. And, and that's kind of what caught me on this journey of discovering this. And I tell everybody on here that comes onto these shows, like, look, guys, I'm not here to debate. I'm here to get some answers too. And I just decided I want to do this publicly rather than in secret. Like, why not just do this publicly and ask questions and let you, the viewer, also ask some questions when it comes to the question time? But why is it so hard for us to accept that that hell might look different than what we've been taught? What do you, what do you think the roadblock is?

All right, so Will, you just want to say hello to all the viewers here and thank you for actually having me again here. Paul, it's awesome. It's always awesome getting together to your room. It's always fun. I enjoy it. Yeah. And secondly, I just want to say that you see the approach that you took here where, as you mentioned, you didn't do it in secret. You actually brought it out where you gave people the opportunity to, on, on the one hand, come present what your understanding is based on the experience of research, right? And what they're teaching. And that gave, and I, I admire the fact that you, that you created a platform where people could have come on and asked their questions. People, because a lot of people have been in questions for years, bro, for years. And this platform was a nice way. I really admired the way that you approached it and you made it, um, you mean, you made, you made it accessible for everybody. Yeah, that's, that, I feel that's the best way to go. You know me, bro? Yeah. Like, I, I'm, I'm a real raw kind of person and I don't like just pull. I don't want to fake it till I make it. And I don't want to like, scripturally, spiritually be politically correct. Right, right. I want to also put myself out there to be a little bit vulnerable because maybe I've been wrong about some stuff. Sorry. Maybe, maybe I can humble myself to discover some of the things I've been wrong. And also, there's some things that I'm not fully think I'm there with on some of the things I've heard as well. Right. But at the end of the day, uh, this is actually a fun journey. Yeah. Yeah, it is indeed. It is indeed. I, I just made a post this morning on Facebook, actually, on the whole topic of, in the pursuit of truth, sensitivities could never be the compass. Right, right. If you're seeking truth, then you're pretty much on a path where it has the potential to, to, to create friction with, with, with other perspectives. And that's all right, once, once it's done in a respectful manner, of course. Absolutely. Excuse me. I'm sharing this broadcast a little bit, so if I'm looking down real quick. Yeah, no problem. Having this, is having this cup one blocking vision here, or should I take it off? They're just asking. Hey, I like it either way, man. All right, all right, cool.

All right, so, um, to answer your question, I think that the whole problem here with regards to people having difficulty is to understanding what hell actually is, is all in what they define the Bible to be, right? Right. What is the Bible for most people? And, um, the definition that you are given, whatever definition that you are given concerning the Bible and concerning your belief in Christ Jesus, is pretty much the definition and the only definition that you would have to be able to define everything found in the Bible with Jesus. Yes. But, but for most of us in the western eyes, we were not really taught that. We were taught other reference points. And whichever reference point you have is the reference point that you're going to define it. Which means if you're approaching the Bible, your priority and your first step, and this, and this became very evident in our research in this time period and the processes that we had to engage in the research, is that your priority is not really trying to explain the Bible, but your priority is to first find the correct definition of the Bible, the correct reference point. Exactly. Your definition, a frame of reference, or your reference point. And once, once that happens, then the Bible pretty much speaks for itself. Now, I noticed that sometimes the reference points gets to be like this. I'm just interjecting a little bit. Is, um, well, you know, Jesus, heaven, Satan, right? Hell, right? And so they're, they're like, they don't cross-reference the way a lot of people think. But the question is, is, is there some cross-reference there too? You know, just a food for thought, you know? Yeah. And the whole idea of that, in particular, um, pretty much contradicts the idea, and I'll have to give a big shout out to our holy brother, Brooke Potter, that actually spoke on this. Yeah, he gave some awesome points. And to actually, to his point, the whole idea of that division is actually a massive contradiction to one God. Because if you have one God, then you cannot have a place that is independent of God. Because if any place exists independent of God, then there is no more one God. You have two gods. Right, right, right. So the whole idea of our westernized perspective of what God is and what Satan is has actually hinged on this idea that there are two gods, and these two gods are in battle, and we are actually trying to escape one God by going by the other. That is essentially what you're dealing with there. And so through the period of time that we had been, that we had been researching this, and of course, when we actually, the, the realities of what we were dealing with came and became very evident the moment we decided to begin to, to put an experimental process to the 2D perspective. And once, once putting an empirical and empirical criteria on your, on, on the research by testing these things, actually quickly began to, without the things that even I, from the Protestant background and Pentecostalism, in particular, to be specific, who held certain things there and thought that is it, brother. The research, in particular, pretty much ended up deconstructing me. Right. And if you're actually in the pursuit of truth, and you really want the truth, then you have to be open to the fact that your frame of reference could be wrong, or else your research is not research. Your research is pretty much investigation for your confirmation bias. That's good. That's good.

Now, I'm just thinking as you're talking there, because my mind starts pondering, and I'm wondering if other people are thinking this too, because you were just making reference to the fact that we have to understand there's there's one God. Yeah. There's, there's one thought. There's one word. There's one scripture. There's one reality to this thing, right? But there is something, and I call that truth. That's just what I define as truth. Yeah. But there is a true search. There is true in the circumstance, meaning like it doesn't mean that true is truth, but it's true. Like there is another master. There is the stranger's voice. Yeah. There is a carnal reality that's opposing a spiritual reality. Like, right? Yeah. So, so, and I think in your, our first interview, you, you hit on this a little bit, uh, as well, which is really good, is referencing to Satan as, like, for example, how Jesus did with Peter, you know, when he said, "Get behind me, Satan," because you are thinking, right, man? Meaning there's an imaginary perspective here that's creating an imagination that's setting knowledge. It's a reality above the knowledge of God. You were talking about that in the first interview. Exactly. Exactly. And, and so, is that true reality from the one God? Is it just our imagination and our mind and our thoughts that are trying to trick us from this one truth? Because there is true there, because we do see something, we do experience something, and Jesus dealt with it by, I think, teaching Peter discernment. But at the end of the day, it didn't take away from the fact that there was that thought. Exactly. Yeah. And Jesus defines that as another master. So does it really mean that there's a master, another master, or is that master our imagination? Go ahead.

All right, so to answer that question directly, and, and as we go along here, I'd actually begin actually will divulge into how the Bible in particular demonstrated this one word and how, and what, what is the context of hell here. So, in the, in the, in the context of the Genesis narrative, for those of you who follow the first interview, I pretty much explained what a person is. And the person, in particular, even in our westernized culture and according to the confines or the philosophy of our English language, we have taken what the philosophy of the Hebrew language, the concept of the Hebrew language, and divided it into parts in the English language that has actually caused us to divide things that were pretty much together as one. Now, in the context of a person, the scripture, in the, the ancient Hebrew perspective and concept of a person is really tied to breath, which is what is called spirit in the New Testament and also throughout the rest of the Bible, right? And, and, um, most people hear that, but they don't really understand what spirit is. And in the context of the God narrative, as a person or a spirit is actually a thought that is that is evident and becomes the nature of the breath. So, a good example of that in the previous episode, we identified that I, I actually elaborated on the fact that the Genesis narrative was actually the speeches of God from chapter one to chapter two, verse three. And then from chapter two, verse four to the end of the chapter, were the acts of God. These speeches that were actually specific to the man started in Genesis chapter one, verse 26 to 30. That, in particular, was actually God saying, "Let us create mind in our own image and likeness," which means that God had a thought about himself, and this thought, in particular, is what was breathed into the man and became spirit. So, in other words, a spirit is actually a thought of God that has, that has actually taken life form, whether it be man, animals, trees, all of these things are thoughts of God, according to the narrative, that have actually taken on an indep, a self-existent life form. It is part of God, but self-existent, just like God. So the spirit of God is in it. Now, once you understand that, but the Bible understands your master as the thought that you hold to be true to you. That's good. It's interesting. So if God's thought about himself is true to you, then God is your master. That's one mind. That's one mind, right? So you're actually functioning like, and Jesus used a reference, New Testament, that brought it into context. He referred to, um, in the Gospel of John, in particular, he referred to a father and son that were both carpenters, and the son, in particular, learned the father's skills. And so whatever the son does, you could see the father in the son because they thought, the son has the same point of reference with regards to the execution of this skill. So even though they're two persons, they're functioning as one because they have the same thought. This is actually what Paul refers to when he says, um, when he says that those who are, those who are joined together, one spirit with him, by actually adopting Jesus, Jesus as your supreme thought, that, in particular, becomes a logic, and that logic is actually now evident in your character, in your decisions, in the way you see things, the way you see people. That thought becomes the authority that you use to validate everything, to validate your identity, to evaluate, to validate your potential, you have to validate your limitations, because if it is not God's thought, then you, you have limitations. There are limitations going to be there to validate your decisions. So the thought, they, in particular, know the, the second aspect of what you're asking, the, is actually you. So you're requesting if, if there's one God, how you can have an independent thought. Right? And then you're looking at it from the perspective of the fruit. But you actually have to back up a little bit and come to the realization that it's not really an independent thought. It's the fact that you are one creator with the creator, and therefore you can exercise creatorship, so to speak, just like, just like the father who is a creator also. So you can now create your own world within God. But in that perspective, um, that world within God has already been established, which is why, no, this might sound very philosophical, but this is the context of light and darkness in the garden. Because a lot of people actually tend to think that, well, God is light and God is not darkness, but that again, is a westernized perspective of light and darkness. Right, right. The light and darkness in the scriptures, if you look at Isaiah, he says God said, um, yeah, we said that he created darkness for a purpose, for the day of retribution. Right. He set it up like that. Now, to understand what he's saying again, you have to go back to the garden. But in the definition, in the actual context of what the garden is, and what the garden was actually designed to turn to demonstrate, was that there is light and there is darkness. Both of them exist in God, and both of them exist with a purpose. The context of the purposes, God's thought, in particular, is one of equity, justice, fairness, love, with that there is prosperity. And once there is equity, then all self-existent creation can live peacefully, manifest, produce, and eternity should be like that. I like what you're saying there, Zane, because that brings a whole another light to Ephesians 4:23, because the reference point is, you're talking about the one truth, spirit, breath, like, right, right. And if you under, in, in reference to what you were just saying, the spirit references to thought. Yes. Okay. So that means be renewed. Who's being renewed? My intellectual, my, yeah, right? My imagination, my mind, my concept, my ideas. I'm aligning him to what the spirit. Yes. This is my thought. The spirit of my imagination, the spirit of my idea, the spirit of my conception, the spirit of my humanity. Like, like, it's just connecting the pieces of the puzzle now. I really like that because if I can grasp this, like what you're saying, or those who are watching it can understand what you're saying, right? I think ultimately, the deeper revelation is in the fact that Jesus is the reference point to all of us. Yes. To every part of us. And I think a lot of times, because I don't know about you, but have you ever heard this before, saying, "I don't live from here. I live from here." Yeah. "I don't live from this. I live from this." And I don't know about you, the viewer watching this, but I've seen that so many times. And I've always go, "Okay, so if I don't live from here and I live from here, then who's the God of this?" Because then you just took away my reference point and you made it to go to here. So this is my reference point. This isn't my reference point. Yeah. Well, who's the reference point to my eye? Who's, nothing's pointing to my nose. What about my mouth? Like, who's a reference point to the veins of my body? What about the feelings and emotions? Who's the reference point? And I love what you're saying here because I think you're cleaning up a deep-rooted mess. Yeah. Because even outside of hell, just in everyday life of like, "Who in the hell am I?" Like, no wonder my life is such a hell because I can't figure out how to put the pieces of the puzzle together. And it just seems like you're connecting some pieces that have been mentally, physically, emotionally lost, maybe through theology. Yeah. Yes.

Um, so before I actually respond to what you just said there, I just want to add to this is that what you're talking about, Ephesians chapter four, this is spot on because in the context of the ancient Hebrews, in the Genesis narrative, the thought that you hold to be true is the thought that becomes your system of logic. "As a man thinks, so is he." As a man thinks, so is he. That thought becomes a logic and it begins to define everything that you encounter. A good example of that is, um, when Jesus spoke about it also, he refers to this, that you can't have two masters. Right? And so, let's take for example, somebody, which is a very common theme in the New Testament with Jesus and dealing with people, is using money as, as the thought. Right? Now, in the Genesis narrative, just to give context to this, is that man was created, breath, dust, and just as he was created, breath, dust, his name, God, he actually carried God's name, which was Yahweh Elohim. The body, in particular, is what was called Adam because it came from the Adam, which was the Hebrew word referred to the dust of the ground, the dust of the adama. Now, he was supposed to function from the breath. When the conversation took place with his serpent, he was invalidated because what was spoken in his speeches was what was breathed into the dust, contradicting God, was contradicting his own nature because he was God's thought as a living organism. When that country, when that invalidation took place, the comprehension of the narrative is that he switched from using the breath and starts to use the dust as the mechanism to find a point of validation. Right? To find something to compare himself to, to be able to integrate, to be able to determine his identity, his potential, and of course, if it is not God, it is really a creation, then he has limitations. And that also framed how he saw life, right? So, in this case, let's say you're using money. The, a practical example of that is that you, you, you identify money as your validation, right? And you begin to compare yourself to whether you're using money to say that totally determine your identity, your potential, limitations, to make decisions. That becomes a system of logic. So, with the presence of money, you're strong, you're inspired. Absence of money, you fall into depression, anxiety, fear. You use that also to make decisions. Can I make, can I do this? Do I have money? Or you, what you want somebody, and you begin to judge them. If they have money, they're in high regard because your point of validation validated them, whilst if they don't have money, you treat them as though they're just poor, they're nothing, they're garbage. That's good.

Now, when I'm listening to you here, this is what's really interesting is that, um, it can go the same reference with hell. You're using money. Yeah. But if a person has a perspective of hell, like they know that, like, for example, most Christians, I don't think they know when Jesus saved them, right? And hell is not their place. Like, yeah. And so, I'm just talking from a common thought. Yeah. Like, right? But then in the back of their mind, they know if they sin a little too much, then all of a sudden, and they've been taught that it could possibly change God's mind somewhere down the line, because you just keep being a knucklehead and you're not stopping being a knucklehead. Now you're being a knucklehead on purpose. Like, now you know what you're doing, and you're deliberately doing it. Now you just might piss God off, and you just might get on his backside in the context of what you are saying. You know what most people don't realize is that in the context of the mechanic, in the narrative where you begin to use the five senses to seek a point to seek your validation, most westernized believers have actually fallen into using the five senses and they locate the system of rules as the validation. So they follow the rules, they feel holy and righteous and and strong, which usually leads to some sort of arrogance, right? And if they don't follow the rules, they fall into the context of actually questioning whether God will change his mind based on, um, on, on what he has said, because they're using that, the rule-keeping system as the validation and not the breath, not the Holy Spirit. Hmm. That's, that's, that's really good.

So does that in turn, like, Jamie asked a question on here, and he's like, "Can, uh, the question goes something like this: Can a thought have a voice without speaking?" Definitely. Every thought that you have in the Bible is actually referred to as a voice in their, in their context and their concept. So if you have two voices, sorry, two thoughts, where, a good example of what is, what you, what you're referring to, where they think about heaven and hell, then those realities, those are, those thoughts come with a system of logic that naturally your spirit mechanizes. Interesting. And so you're listening to two masters. You know, you know, something that was always interesting to me, Zane, was when God was in the very beginning of time, he spoke. Like, right, right. And think about this, you, the viewer, like, I would love to hear your guys' feedback in the comments, like, because this is always marveled me, and I love to hear your thought too, but think about this for a second. God said, "Let there be light." My question is, who was there to hear it? And what did it sound like? Yeah. Most of us would not be able to understand that it manifested. It worked. Things came to being. Yeah. But who, who was there to hear it? No, to understand that in Genesis, most westerners are stumped by that because of the confines of the philosophy of the English language. But if you actually cross-reference Genesis with Job, like Job 42, Job actually indicates in Job 42 that it was God's thoughts that did everything. It says that. All right, but most people read Job again from a different reference point. Again, they redraw from the, from their point of comparison, and you're reading you to get suffering and pain to confirm your bias. [Laughter] Instead, right? So all of this information is right in front of you, but you can't see what you're not aware of. You actually see in within the confines of your system of logic.

So are you suggesting that people are creating their own hell mentally? Yes, sir. Okay. You have the freedom to do that. You can choose a hundred million reference points, and all of that would be your, your, your form of hell. No, the context of hell in the Bible, though, in Jesus' time, has a very specific context that fits in the panorama of the Bible, right? So, um, so before I start on that, I just want to actually complete the thought that was actually unpacking there with regards to the darkness in the garden. So the light represented equity, as I was saying, that all creation being self-existent, as it proceeds out of God, all creation, self-existent, equity means that all creation can actually live peacefully and manifest without one creation imposing upon the other creation. The darkness in the garden, and for those of you who have been asking this question, pay attention here. The darkness in the garden represents the atmosphere or the mechanism that exists in creation for those who do not want equity. And that darkness exists to remove and to uproot the elements that are actually not equity, which is what you see in the Torah, where God actually refers, he set the, the nature of sowing and repenting place. So death is really for those who have chosen no equity and to actually eliminate the poison from the garden. The darkness is there for that. So when you say equity, you're talking equality? Right. Equality with God. Exactly. Equality with all creation that is also an expression of God himself. Okay. Okay. Right. Good. That's good. So the darkness exists as a matter of fact, when Jesus is actually speaking and saying the judgment is coming upon the nation of Israel in Revelation, which is what we're going to touch here today also, you can also see that that is darkness. Think about it. So the darkness exists and it is fulfilling his command, which is removing the injustice. Okay. Okay.

So that makes sense because if, and I'm relating it to scripture here, yeah, like it said, the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the water, and here it is, the state of that moment was empty, void, formless. Now, I'm thinking here, I'm just relating it to here, so it was empty before. It didn't have an image. It didn't have a likeness. It didn't have a form. It didn't have any reference point of reference, uh, as least as knowing it this way. So, is that related to what you're kind of saying in the mind of man, and maybe why it's not sinking? Say that again. Okay, so I'm just relating it for an example, like to our thoughts, all right? So for the state of reference, so, um, being empty, void, and formless, meaning formless, meaning there's no image, there's no real understanding of image, or, right, right? No real take on it. There's no real substance, so to speak, until God said, "Let there be light," and the light bulb came on in the darkness. But something that amazes me in that vein is the light came from the darkness. Or here we go, the light of the world was born from sin in the flesh of Mary. That just blows my mind. Like, I'm just using this. So, so the idea is, I'm, I'm reeling this in without getting off track here, is when it comes to our mind, so our thoughts sometimes can be carnal, it could be formless, or it could have a form of darkness, so to speak, and it can feel empty and void and feel like there's no substance, no evidence, no purpose, right? Until the light comes on and reveals purpose and reveals reference. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No, but in the context of what I'm saying in the garden, though, the garden's reference for that. So in the Old Testament, no, this is actually explained in the Torah, because remember when Moses built this temple, he built it as a reflection of the Garden of Eden. And so the Torah, which is called the book of the, the book of the law of Yahweh, which is the book of the principle of the self-existent, which which was pretty much an expression of the character nature of the man, actually identified what was the type of what darkness was, was really, and why it was eliminated. And they gave you three contexts of of that in in Torah, which I wouldn't study because I can take us into a different location. But the context of darkness there was actually specific to those who chose a non-God perspective, an anti-God perspective, and were very okay with it. And they were referred to as the enemies of God in the Bible. Those who took it and they're okay with that, they were pressing others, and they considered that true and good. They take the good and they make it evil. They make the evil. They take even they make it good. That darkness exists in the garden to uproot those elements, right? So that the garden could continue to prosper, right? And I'm glad you're breaking this down, Zane, because I think for the viewer, oftentimes this is a really hard concept to wrap around because again, like when they hear us talking, they're going, "Well, I thought you're talking about flaming fires and demons and like, you know what I mean?" And that's, that's their concept of hell because that's what we've been taught, you know, in that, and I idea. But what I like that you're unpacking here is a concept and an idea of of what hell really looks like and how we produce those hells in our life, you know, through our thoughts and our ideas from those darkness, from having no reference point. And I'm trying to catch up some of the people that might just be jumping on as well, a little bit, because ultimately, what we're trying to do is tie the paradigm between scripture and hell, and we're trying, and he's trying to break this down. But I think what's important to understand is because we're not talking about the flaming fires and demons coming out and all that stuff at the moment, like, right? We're breaking down how to actually understand this from a Christ-centric reality, like, right? Yes. And one thing I said to, um, Brooke is this, Zane, is, um, the thing that amazes me, without the thing that I get, is, uh, Jesus spoke a language about hell. Yeah. And we know there's Gehenna, there's Sheol, and there's all these names for hell, right? In their day, they would have spoke those names. They would never have said hell. Yeah. Like, hell wouldn't even have been in their mouth. They wouldn't even said hell. Like, unfortunately, when we read and from our westernized conception, we go, "Well, it says hell here, it says hell here, it says here," and we have one conception of hell, and that's flaming fire, gnashing of teeth. Yeah. And then you go to the people who would have understood Jesus in a day, and they would have talked about Gehenna, it would have been a different concept than Sheol. So when David says, "I make my bed in hell," it just means, hey, when you go to the grave in this mindset, God's with you. And when it talks about Gehenna, like, right? That means that we're talking about this perspective, like, right? And we don't, we in the western world don't connect those pieces because we just hear the word hell, and it's one thing. It means only one across the board. And, and I think a lot of times we miss that reality. And I love how you're breaking this down because at the end of the day, I think it has some ties to the original concept that the Hebrew in Jesus' day, if they would have heard Jesus talking, what, like they did? Yeah. They understood the context. Yes, sir. This is what's super important is I think we miss the context. And a lot of times out of laziness, yes, studying in scripture for real, like, right? I'm not being harsh, but I mean, it's strictly laziness to get off our butt and open it up and do the research. We don't want to. We just want to say, "Hey, I'm just like this, and it just, it says it," so I just do what it says. And I mean, it just, it gets crazy. And then we create a whole theology around it because we're not studying it out. And exactly. And I'm just being a little passionate there because I'm a little bit pissed off at the fact that I've been duped into this whole concept in my, and wasted 30 years of my life, 20 years of my life, you know, in this fear of a God that never had these certain thoughts of me. Right. Pisses me off, really, because I, I could have maybe had a relationship with God if I didn't have this twisted concept because of a westernized concept that was abstract from the reality of God that they created this whole imagination and mindset in my mind that kept me in prison here and living out a false reality of of God my whole life, bro. So I really appreciate you taking time and breaking this down mentally because it has to connect here, or we're confused. And I think a lot of the confusion comes from the simple fact is, is a lot of the stuff we've been taught and being not diligent enough to actually study it out. And I think the biggest mistake we can make as believers is taking the Bible literally, word for word. And why do I say it's not that it doesn't have value? It's the fact that the westernized conception of the Bible is not the same as Hebrews. It's limited. It's very limited. Like it has the same meaning if you understand the reference point. But if, to me, it's kind of like this, it's kind of like I could hear a word they say and let me create a whole another definition that fits my narrative. Yeah. According to my western. Now, I'd say the Bible means this because it fits my westernized conception of what hell is. Well, unfortunately, you can't use hell across the board when we're talking about hell. Like you can't just use the word hell because he didn't use hell, and hell wasn't even in their verbiage, you know? And so, guy, I just appreciate you saying this. I'm sorry I got a little excited there. I appreciate it.

If it's one thing, I actually want to, because I also experienced that sense of indignation that these are things that I've been taught and held for 32 years of my life, right? Right. And this whole idea, if something, just to give context to those who might be also experiencing the same thing, what we need to comprehend is that our Greek, Roman, Roman cognitive system of thought is what has influenced westernized civilization, and they are pretty much philosophers, whilst they, they're very philosophical, why, um, philosophical, while the Bible's perspective is very concrete, as in, it does not float theories. Everything must have a manifestation to connect to, right? And so we have been taught in school to think like that, to think philosophically, because of that, that's interesting. Because of that, we are, it has become very easy, because of our philosophy of language and philosophy of thoughts, to accept information without pragmatic verification. Which is why the westernized church community has a problem with the scientific community. In the old, ancient Hebrews, the scientific community and the Hebrews would be would be like that. But because of our perspective of very philosophical perspectives, there is a war between the scientists and the philosophical approach, as is normal. Because a philosopher is someone who theorizes what something could be, whereas a scientist is the one that proves by dropping the ball. Look at that, then this has to be true, right? So we have been, we had been, um, for me, in particular, is because I had been a translator, in particular, and interfaced with other languages and cultures that give me somewhat of an edge to be able to understand, okay, we need to consider this book is a translation. And if this book is a translation, then what, as a translator, you are, you have the responsibility to understand the frame of thought of the source, the language of this resource language of the speaker, to be able to interpret, or else you will interpret something totally contrary to what he is thinking. So good. Now, in the will of translation, you will be sued for something like that. Yeah, right, right. That's a lawsuit. So it's, it must be held responsible to objectivity, the translation. So for those of you listening and actually questioning, um, I encourage you to do me a hard on yourselves, because this is the culture that it came from. And consider that back to the God narrative here, in particular, your experience with this functions for your good when you come into Christ, where you understand the nuances of being trapped in it, and this educates you as a form of intelligence to be able to help others who may want to come out of it, if that makes sense, right? It always works out for good. Yeah. And I think sometimes people think that they're on the flip side, like, let me just use me for example, getting a little excited there, is that, you know, when you realize there's something not lining up and there's holes, you find yourself getting a little aggressive, right? But at the end of the day, it's, uh, it's being able to have grace on yourself. I just put a YouTube video out about, right, have a grace on ourselves, like, right? But at the end of the day, um, as much as that could fire you up inside, it seems like there's a level of responsibility of understanding that, hey, we're all grown, we're all learning. Yeah. And we're all okay in the process, you know? And giving ourselves permission to grow through the process and being okay. So I'm really glad you said that, bro. Exactly, right. A lot of people are going through those feelings and emotions as they go. Yeah, I could relate. Secondly, so let's, let's hit what hell is here, right? Yeah. Let's define this. Now, to understand what hell is, um, you need to understand what is the paradigm of the Bible. Now, for those of you, when I hear this for the first time, I just want to put all the disclaimer, buckle down a little bit, all right? No, the paradigm of the Bible is really all about the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden, to the ancient Israelites, was the definition of heaven, right? The Garden of Eden, in particular. Now, remember, man was breath breathed into dust. And so heaven and earth, it is the, in the context of the God narrative, man was created heaven and earth by dust, that's probably right, by the breath of God, which is heaven, and the dust, which is actually a representation of the earth, right? Now, in the, in the, in the garden narrative, what you see is that when man was using breath as a perspective, there was manifestation of garden. When you switch across to the dust perspective, he was just interfacing with the physicality of the earth. [Music] Right? What does that look like? Simply, like, simply that. Let's see, Father, who is, and this is the context of God in the Bible. Westerners are confused with this, but in the context of the God narrative, God is the person of heaven on earth. So let's use you for example. Let's say you are Father in this case, and I am son, and you represent the planetary heaven on earth. So I'm just going to change heaven from the God narrative. And when I say planet, right? You are the planetary heaven on earth. So you are planet, and you, the person, is really the person that is the breath, the person that is thinking, the spirit. And you breathe your breath into dust, and here am I, just like you, heaven, earth, breath, dust. When man was in the, um, before he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he spoke to Father like I'm speaking to you. So I speak to you, and you respond. When you respond, you move your own tools to respond to me. If I ask you for a cup of water, and I just use this analogy, just recently, you asked me for a cup of water. You, I actually, Paul, can I have a cup of water? And you take the, grab a cup of water, and you give it to me. Then I actually just receive it from there. What man did when he made his decision to use the dust is that he stopped identifying as the person that he was, found a point of validation outside, and began to interface with you, ignoring the breath. It's the same thing as, do I, I want a cup of water from you, and I know come across by you, and I lift your body and move your hand, walk your body to the fridge, take your hand to take all the water. So, in other words, I'm interfacing with your body, but I'm not interfacing with the person. Right? In the garden narrative, Father was the person of the planet. And so when man fell, he was interfacing with the, in other words, the body of earth, the planet is like his body, and the person was the breath that filled the body, just like you fill your body right now with breath. And so he began to interface with God as though, sorry, when he was in the garden, he was functioning from the breath, he manifested garden. And so the earth is really heaven. When he switched across the dust, heaven was the person interfacing with the person. When he switched across the dust, he had to actually began to, to interface with the planet not as a person anymore, but as a physicality, and had to actually sweat to get things out of the physicality of the planet instead of actually speaking to the person that is the breath, the person of the planet. And if you ask the person, then the planet moves his own hands, moves his own things to actually respond to you. Does that make sense? Over. I, I think it makes great sense. One thing I like about what you're saying here is it's, it's bringing a reference point to for us to who we are, because I think about just at my everyday normal function, like, like you think about this, if I say something to you, say I say, you know what, you're just, you're stupid, Zane. You're thinking, you're, you have your, you hear through your senses, right? Your senses goes to here, creates a thought, a thought creates an idea, an imagination, a perspective, an emotion, a feeling, it stirs up a will, and then it creates an action. Now, the thing is, as the way I'm understanding what you're saying is, after the fall, that was all referenced to an identity outside. So he would be controlled by an emotion of feeling, a sense that did not see it in reference to its breath. Exactly. You know? So then, so, so before that, he realized the realization that he lived, moved, and had his being, every part of him, or, or I like to say is, you know, Adam was laying down when God formed him, and he had everything. You, you actually teach us some stuff on this. He had a body, he had, he had a nose, he had eyes, he had organs, and stealing, stealing a thing, right out of your own playbook, you know, you always say in your classes that it's not your organs to keep you alive, it's the spirit of God. It's the breath. The organs, in particular, are actually forged because of the presence of the breath. Bingo. And, and I think that's super important for the listeners to realize is, I think ultimately, and if I was going to just bring it into a kindergarten perspective, is that we're identifying, we're learning to identify every part of us as the breath of God. And that's the son's reality that would live and move and have. When you see my eyeballs, you see the spirit of God's eyeball, like, right? So when I hear something now, it's like, "What do you think, Holy Spirit? What do you feel, Holy Spirit? What will you do right now, Holy Spirit?" And then we get up, what we see our Father doing, we get up and act out and walk whatever we hear or see him do, right? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Now, so, so then the context of the Garden of Eden was actually heaven for them, but heaven if you're living from the breath, if you're living from

Um, from the dust, then you'll interface with the creation as a physicality and not into interfaced creation. Do as it is, as what it is. It is a manifestation of a person. Right now, when Adam made his decision in the garden, this is where I'm unpacking, you know, what hell is. When I made a decision in the garden, um, I'm just going to identify what is necessary for the explanation here. After he made this decision, go through them with animal skin, right? Which indicated a change of reference. And because there were two beings that were functioning from the breath of life in a garden, one was Yahuwah Elohim, Adam, and then the breath of life were in the animals. So when he made his decision, he was no longer functioning from the identity of Yahuwah Elohim, who included animal skin as an indication that he was no longer functioning in the first category, but in the second category because he's using his dust as the tool to determine what he uses for identity, his understanding of himself, and understanding how to live what is functional and dysfunctional.

Now, when he was put out of the garden, it's something very significant. And everything I'm seeing here, I'm just building it, it's very significant because when he's put in the garden, a flaming sword was actually present in front of the garden with a flaming sword. Now, in the context of the ancient Hebrews, people, westerners, and I, and I, and I beg you to pay attention to what I'm saying here. The Torah in itself is actually called the principle of the self-existence, the law of Yahuwah, which is the principle of the self-existence. And according to ancient Hebrews, they wrote the book, all of that was written in the nature of the title "self-existent." Which means you get your definitions of things in the Bible from the scriptures. You are not permitted to go outside of the scriptures to draft anything inside, or else the book is not codependent, and it is not a reflection of self-existence. It is on that note that every concept in the Bible, in their perspective, you have to understand that just as we went to school to understand academics, where we have the same common understanding of math, English, literature, social studies, these people studied Torah in the same capacity. And so amongst the community, they understand each other, just like we understand each other when we say one plus one is equal to two. That's crazy. I'm thinking when you're talking there, a lot of people might not know. Do you realize the, I, I know you know this, but Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, by the time they were 12 years old, they memorized all five books word for word. Like, talk about studying here, guys. Not like memorizing John 3:16 and, you know, in children's church, and I can get the Roman Road down. It's like Genesis, Exodus. Could you imagine having to memorize Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy word for word? That's insane. By 12. By 12. So when they speak into each other, get this, just like you would actually reference your mathematics in school to talk to somebody else. And when they're here, well, 22 by 50 equals this, and the next person here understands that because of the common education. These people have been educated in a commonality of the Torah. So when they speak, a lot of their definitions come from the Torah. The definition of what God is, heaven is, um, the definition of concept like light, darkness, trees, water, context of water, all of these things come from that, from that law.

Now, in the context of that, every, every, every author of the scriptures, even the apostles, the New Testament, their concepts that they're referencing is found in the Torah. You have to go back in the, in their culture, and in the spirit of the scriptures, you always go back to where it is first mentioned. And however it is expounded upon or elaborated in its first mention, its context is what follows through the rest of the Bible. And a lot of that is heavily tied to the garden of Eden. So the first mention of angel, like cherubim, fire, and sword, is when he was outside of the garden, which is significant because that's interesting. He was clothed with animal skin, representative of his knowledge of good and evil. The context of the fire in front of the garden was to get back into the garden. You need to be purged of your knowledge of good and evil. That was the context, which is why God calls himself the consuming fire. He consumes the knowledge of good and evil, your knowledge of good and evil, and brings you back to His knowledge of good and evil. So He pushes you of your subjectivity so that you can come into the garden, which is good and very good, which is good and very good. Like, try to wrap your mind around that. Nice. The sword also signified a division between your subjective perspective and God's perspective.

Now, most people are not aware of this because of your obsession with the law, that the Torah came about as an expression of the identity, character, nature of the man before he fell. Which is why before you come into the law of Moses, you need to actually cut the foreskin of the man's genitalia, cut off the flesh. It was a representation of cutting off the skin on what his skin represented that was placed on the Adam when he was put outside of the garden. In other words, when you circumcise, you have just agreed to abandon your knowledge of good and evil and adopt and adopt God's knowledge of good and evil, which was the Torah. Right? Which is ultimately, can I just want to interject real quick, just for the viewer? Right? It's what the Bible calls discernment. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Right? So you cut it off and you embrace the Torah. Now, get this, embracing the Torah in the, in the, in the context of the law meant that you had to take on God's name as your own, which is Yahuwah, which is the original identity. And use the Torah as the manual to walk out the name because your spirit, in particular, had been corrupted with an external, with invalidation. It was corrupted within validation. So you take God's name as your own and use the Torah to walk out God's name, which means the Torah was actually your user's manual to walk out your original identity, which was Yahuwah Elohim.

Okay, no, a piece, a piece in this, in layers. Right? I like it. This is good. This is, this is it. Definitely the layers. You got a lot of layers. Right? Second layer, when Moses constructed the tabernacle, he reflected the tabernacle as a reflection of the garden of Eden. Now, in the Genesis narrative, the garden of Eden was in Eden. The garden of Eden was not Eden in and of itself. The garden of Eden was in Eden. When Moses constructed the tabernacle, he reflected the garden, he reflected the God narrative by the tabernacle being the garden. The priests were a reflection of the man before he fell. This is why the priests would be addressed as Yahuwah Himself because the priest took on the identity of the man prior to the knowledge of good and evil. And the surrounding areas, the surrounding area around the tabernacle were understood to be Eden. Which means the Old Testament system was a physical manifestation or physical, a physical version of the garden. When the tabernacle was then transitioned into the temple, Jerusalem became Eden. That's why Jerusalem is called the city of peace. It's context. And even Melchizedek is called King of Righteousness. He was the king of ancient Jerusalem, King of Salem, which is King of Righteousness, King of Peace. Because when man fell out of the garden, in the garden, the area was called Eden. But because the man fell out of the garden, he fell out of one functionality and therefore he was no longer whole. So outside of the garden, it was called Jerusalem, which is area of righteousness and peace. So outside of the garden, Eden would be the area where there is wholeness and there's functionality. Functionality being no knowledge, no personal knowledge of good and evil, but God's perspective as your own. But this is confirming Deuteronomy 1:39 where Canaan was representative of returning to the garden atmosphere. And it was written Deuteronomy 1:39 that your children who have no knowledge of good and evil will inherit the promised land. So there was actually a reference to them getting back to a version of the garden.

No, no, listen up. I need to fast forward here because this is layers. Right? So when this, um, when the, the temple in Jerusalem was established as the garden again, and Jerusalem was actually established and understood to be Eden, this is the reason why Jesus is in Jerusalem and doing all of these things. And He cleanses the man who was actually waiting there for 30 something years to be healed and couldn't get to the water, which is a reference to the living waters of the garden. He couldn't get to the water. He told him it was unjust. Why? Because Jerusalem is supposed to be the space of peace, which is wholeness, and righteousness, which is justice. And he was not experiencing what the area was supposed to function like.

Right now, if you fast forward a little bit, this is where hell comes into perspective. Jesus is actually, Jesus, Jesus is that Jesus is actually quoting Moses' song when he's actually talking about this hell. And what Moses' song said, now you have to pay attention to what's going on here. When, when Adam was put out of the garden, he couldn't come back into the garden because the fire was present, which is the fire that meant that he had to be cleansed of the knowledge of God, and it had to be consumed for him to come back into the garden. This was reflected with Moses. When Moses constructed the tabernacle, Moses and Israel, they did something that was not according to what they agreed to, and they were locked out of the, of the tabernacle. That is at the end of Exodus. They couldn't enter, just like Adam could not enter the garden. Moses could not enter the tabernacle, which is where Leviticus is born. Because Leviticus is all about coming back to being clean, cleansed. There's a lot of reference of fire in Leviticus, right? The fire of God and a sacrifice of fire, which is in reference to cleansing your knowledge of good and evil. And once the priests and Moses did what was necessary to cleanse themselves of, you know, germ and evil, they were permitted back into the tabernacle.

So it almost sounds like when I'm listening to you, that the representation of fire itself is a, as an act of cleansing. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. No, this actually gets very accurate here because everybody looks at the fire of hell in Revelation and said, well, they assume it's of the devil, and that's when you separate from God. But Revelation is an expansion of the book of Daniel. And if you go to Daniel 7, the fire that you're looking at in Revelation proceeded out of God in Daniel 7 as a river of fire. So, so Jerusalem being the representation of the garden, and sorry, representation of Eden, and the temple being representation of the garden, what you call in hell is actually, when Moses, sorry, when was not, not Moses, Jesus, when Jesus came, Jesus was preaching the Torah, which is the principle of the self-existent. He was pretty much talking about that. And actually, Moses' song in his context was, was this song in his context was in Eden. Only the knowledge of God is supposed to be existent. It is supposed to be a manifestation of God's perspective. What the leaders did was that they incorporated the knowledge of good and evil into the temple, which was into the garden, which filtered into Jerusalem, which is a representation of Eden. It's okay. They incorporated it. Jesus came talking about removing it. But these guys were far gone. They had their own knowledge of good and evil, which is their own doctrine as the rule of law in what was supposed to be the garden and Eden. And Daniel 7 actually shows the river of fire. If you go to Daniel 7, it says that God opened the book, His, um, thrones were set, were presented, He took His seat and opened the book, and a river of fire proceeded out of Him. Revelation is a continuation of that where the seal is reopened, and what you call in the lake of fire is really the river of fire that is coming from God. And the purpose of the fire in the context is to cleanse Eden of the knowledge of good and evil. And those who, because it, because the garden was corrupted again, well, in this case, he was put out of the garden. In this case, they actively corrupted what represented Eden and the garden. And so Jesus came preaching the expression of the garden. And those whose hearts were for that, they were given information, they came into discipleship, they were given information as to what to happen, what will happen when the fire that is coming out of God is going to cleanse the garden and cleanse Eden of the knowledge of good and evil that has filled a space that is supposed to be a representation of God's perspective.

That's really good, Zane. I, I like that. Hey, Zane, let's, let's do this, my friend. Was that, let's, let's come back next Wednesday and do another one, another show. You want to? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We'll do the same time next Wednesday. Reason is, is because the way you lay things out, bro, is so in-depth, and it's so much knowledge. It's almost like you'd have, you could take what you shared and you could create a month's school out of it. Like, like there's so much impact in there. And I want to give people opportunity to digest it a little bit, to re-watch it a few times, and not make it so long that they can't watch it a few times. Yeah, you know, and, and let it sink in. Um, so I'm thinking, so you pause here, right? Yeah. I'm thinking, I'm thinking if you're okay with that. Yeah. You had a good climax there of describing where that was at. And I'm thinking, man, that's a great close right there. Um, but what we can do is we can continue this process. What I want to do now is integrate into some questions. Okay? And let people ask some questions. And I think it's important people have the opportunity to ask questions on what they heard today. Let's try to keep it on context. I know this is broad, and I know when we talk about this, we go, well, what about the, and it's okay to do some of that, but do it with, ask your questions within context of what was taught, right? Right. And then it'll, it'll make it, it'll make it, uh, apply, you know, for, for what this show is, is covering. Awesome. While you guys are typing your questions in, okay, do two things. Share this with someone that you think would like to watch this. And number two, while you're doing that, and doing that, I want to take a moment and, uh, and do a little, I don't know, what do we call it? Let's call it a lightning round. Let's ask Zane some questions about himself. Let's get to know Zane a little bit while you guys are popping in here. Let's have some fun. Okay, so Zane, what's your favorite food, man? My favorite food, um, I love meat. I like chicken, beef, lamb. Awesome. Who was your first celebrity crush? [Laughter] Is my fiance. [Laughter] I feel celebrity crush. I can't see. I'm, I mean, I could delay like two women in particular in my, well, no, I kind of lost because of what I'm involved in, I kind of lost a sense of that. But I do remember before, in my Pentecostal days, you believe it or not, in Pentecost, there were two, there were two, two, two, um, two actresses in particular that that I actually, actually liked watching. If definitely they had my attention was, um, Catherine Zeta-Jones. Okay. Yeah. And, um, Charlize Theron. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Nice. And this is just meant to be fun. I just love doing this to give people opportunity to get to know you a little bit, uh, break up the monotony while they're asking questions that they want to ask a little bit, and, uh, and it makes it, it makes it fun. So what's your favorite food? Well, I said that, that's meat. You like meat? Yeah. Chicken, beef, lamb. You like that? Yeah. That's just, this just plain beef and lamb? Well, I mean, it depends. I know you said that earlier when I asked you that first, but you just said beef and lamb, and I'm like, like, is there, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think in Kenyan style beef, lamb, where they just roast it, and you just eat it off this, you know, cut it off and eat it like, like these are a meal or well, in, well, here in Trinidad, we actually always mix meat with things like, um, potato, mashed potatoes. Okay. Um, yeah, fries. Is there a name for the food? It's a certain name for it. I mean, if there's a local Chinese food, um, well, or common food here, they're two yen. Yes. Yes. Two, two in particular. One is, um, we call pilau. Okay. Pilau is spelled P-E-L-A-A-U, which is pilau. A mixture of rice, peas, and chicken. Okay. That's what I want to hear. I was thinking, okay, I got to re, either re-ask that question or whatever, because like in Kenya, you know, uh, you know, they have like menazi, you know what I mean? Which is, is, uh, menazi's like, uh, it's like a dough that they deep fry, and, you know what I mean? And it, and they eat it with their tea. Okay. Okay. Right. Or, and then they have different dishes that go with their, their food and stuff like that. Cool. So at least we know you like lamb, you know, like beef, and you like pilau. Pilau. Um, there's another thing that I like on time. Time is actually called doubles. So doubles is like this, right? If we go to explain what very thin fried brick bake, okay, served with chana and condiments on it. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then, and then there's a Chinese food, but you know, I'm Venezuelan born, so I like Venezuelan food too. And two in particular would be, I don't know if you're familiar with what arepa is. No, that's like a big meal of corn that is sliced on your pocket with meat and cheese. And sounds good. Yeah. And then the second one is, um, empanada. Empanada is like a pie, but again, made from fried corn. And this, and they stack that with meat, also pack it with meat and cheese and chicken and all those different types of things. So those things so good. I can do that anytime. Awesome. So, so guys, as I'm doing this lightning round, asking a couple questions, last couple more questions, Zane, real quick. In the meantime, put your questions in the comments because we're going to come back to them and we're going to knock those questions out. So if there was one place you could travel in the whole world, where would it go? Where would you go? The highlands of Ireland. Really? What do you like about Ireland? The highlands. The highlands. Yeah. The big cliffs. Okay. Wanna stand up there and stand up, they like, come on, tour. I like, I like how you said highlands. That goes with what you like. We are talking about here, and I'm not trying to get off topic of the lightning round, but that, this, this is the kind of stuff right here that is huge. I think a lot of people overlook is when you say highlands, like, I, I'm thinking something different in my mind, and what you're saying, right? Right. Right. Right. Okay. And, and I think, and, and I think sometimes that's what happens in misunderstanding scripture is we miss what the original, you know, writers were trying to tell us, just because it's lost. It really, in my conception of what that word means. So, I, anyways, I didn't want to get off on that. Right. I love the highlands because of the cliffs. They really, um, the altitude of it. And I just love the, even the islands around Scotland and Ireland, how they stand out to the water. It just accents to me. To me, it felt, it feels like when I see that place and the really islands come out of the water, like these huge cliffs, it kind of makes me feel, and this is the first time I'm actually sharing this, actually, it makes it, it makes me feel like that's where my father resides. That is the, the area of God's, the islands come out of the water. Yeah. No, that's, that's so good. So what's your favorite junk food? Fried chicken and, um, it's potatoes. Yeah. I don't like Buddhas. Like fried chicken, fried chicken on fries could be one. Okay. But other than that, I really meat with anything. Like, what was the last song you downloaded? One of the song tracks from the Transformer. Transformer. Sing it. First. [Laughter] All right. Thank you for doing that. I just wanted to break up some monotony there a little bit. People get to know Zane Peer a little bit more, what he likes. And so let's go back up in here into the comment sections. Looks like we just have a couple of questions here. Um, let's see. Uh, Jamie said something here. It's more of a statement, I think, than a question. It says, even if a man, uh, what or works is burned, his soul is even saved yet by fire? And I think there's a lot of lines of what you're talking about. Yes, it was. So just, just to be clear, therefore, is James or Jimmy, is his name? Uh, I think either one's fine. The chain. Okay. So just to be clear, the, the fire that you are talking about, we have all obsessed about console in hell, was actually the same fire from that wasn't standing in front of the garden. It is a reference to that fire that was cleansing the garden, cleansing the garden, cleansing Eden of the knowledge of good and evil. That is the, the reference to that. Okay. Okay. And, and you hear me say Jamie, and it's James. The reason I say if we were talking to my, our dad passed away a few years ago, but if you were talking to our dad, you know me, we grew up together like, hit Jamie's dad. Okay. He's the one that raised me from that time I was two years old. My mom was just 15 years old, little girl. And so he took me and raised me. So we're actually like, really close, like family, like family. So we were talking to dad right now, Dad will call him Jamie. So like, all right, James is his actual roommate. Okay. Okay. Understood. Okay. Uh, why is the word eternal, uh, lake of fire? Why? I think it's more, why is the word eternal? All right. So they were eternal. That's a good question. And it's actually been used and misused, sorry, used and misused by the westernized culture. The eternal fire is in the same definition of the fire, the garden, which means the eternal destruction of the knowledge of good and evil. Okay. Yeah. It's not used as in the firework, but eternally. It is actually reference to the eternal elimination of the knowledge of good and evil from the garden, which is why you see Revelation when speaking about us in Revelation 21, it refers to the new heaven and youth, which is, um, not possible to corrupt anymore because Yeshua has shared His spirit and restored the breath of life. And the only way for man to be corrupt, Yeshua would have to be corrupt, and that's impossible. So it's actually in reference to the eternal elimination of the corruption of the knowledge of God and evil. So the eternal elimination would have been, if I was going to put in scripture, would have been, "Did God really say, for He surely knows you'll be like..." Exactly. Okay. Okay. Exactly. So, so there is no, so now you can have your own mindset, but your spirit remains pure because it's Yeshua's spirit, which is the breath of life, the pure breath of life. Whereas in the garden, the man was invalidated and it actually incorporated a function in his nature that was not supposed to be there. So that is not eternally eliminated. It cannot come back. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So do you guys have any other questions? Those are the only two questions I see in there. And, uh, April says, you are speaking to my Irish heart. So good. So if you guys have any questions for Zane, make sure to ask those questions right now. We'll take about another 30 seconds or so, a minute. If you don't see any more questions, we'll call it good. Next Wednesday, same time, right here at 10 a.m. We continue to lay on unpack that so that we understand what it means for us now. So that, I think that's sufficient. There's probably said for everybody to ruminate on and to review because this entire concept here is unknown to the westernized community. Yeah, it's very unknown to the westernized community. It's true. And so if you understand it, then oh, you realize that you really have no, this hell and us, it's like not unsalt, not pool, south pole. It has nothing to do with us. But we, we, we would unpack, we continue to unpack that next week. Uh, it says, uh, Zane will have to play the bagpipes next time. You gotta put the outfit on too. I got my kid. That's so good. That's so good. So Zane, last words, man. Um, just people processing right now and trying to think about how to put this, what would be your advice for them going forward to to learn how to maybe even search this out, what you're saying, and how to accept it? Um, number one, there is no possibility of change without focusing on what is priority, which is just as we had and everything that we said here, we have put to experimental test and seen results. So it's not a theory for us. And this is what we actually educate our, our master mentor zone and so on for them to work out the supernatural realities and it functions. But for that to happen, um, as we come, as you came across in our research, the reason why most of most people are struggling is because you are actually trying to get change without redefining what you're looking at. So you're using a definition that you're not addressing and you want different results using the same definition. And change is a product of redefining what you're interfacing with, which means you have to redefine what the Bible is. Do we know the westernized perspective is that this Bible is a book that is used of any capacity of rules and divine laws? This is not true. What you need to do is to find what the Bible is, redefine the Bible, and then your change will come as a result, as a byproduct, like branches growing from a tree, leaves. Your change will come from that. So, and encourage, number two, that even in light of what we are talking about here, um, don't, don't judge yourself. Don't, because listen to me, this is very important. In the garden narrative, God names. God comes back to Abraham in a form of a new Adam, you know, in a figure of a new Adam, and He names him Abraham. What most people don't understand is that you read any Bible from the dust perspective and you say his name is Abraham, father of many nations, but his name was not Abraham because the breath of the person that named him comes with the name of the person. Therefore, God identified Himself as El Shaddai, the All-Sufficient One, naming Abraham made Abraham Abraham El Shaddai, or El Shaddai Abraham, which is why Yeshua is the seed of Abraham. Right? Which means when you, when you're saying that in the name of Jesus, one of the things that you have to consider is that we have been taught to use the name of Jesus like an enchantment. You say, in the name of Jesus, and you pray. When the ancient Israelite perspective of name, which is what I explained in the previous, in, in the previous interview, I explained that the name means actually function, essence, species. Which means that you, you, you'll be in, uh, using the name of Jesus in this case, that the name of Jesus has been exalted. It's God has renamed you. Yeshua. Come on. Come on. That's huge right there, bro. As a species. That's that's the new creature, the new creation. He has renamed you. Yeshua. How many people can actually accept that? Like, like, really, like, I mean, you know, accept that? That's huge. Like, yeah, that revelation right there, what you just said is, and that's absolutely my boy. And that is not just the title or the designation. It renamed you as a species. That's the context of name in the Bible. You're a creative species. And the new species is Yeshua. In other words, the first man in the garden was Adam. The new man is no longer Adam. The new man is a Yeshua. It is a race. That's why Peter says a chosen race. This is a species of being, a race. So, so is it, when it says Jesus, we know Christ isn't Jesus's last name, but in essence, Christ defines the name. Christ defines him. This is what Paul was saying. Christ is the savior of the body, meaning that he is the breath of the body from the God narrative. So he's the breath of life. Christ is the breath of life, or Yahuwah Elohim in the body. Again, the body is made for Yahuwah, and Yahuwah for the body. So, so, so in essence, um, Christ, you know, anointed one, chosen one, like, this is, I, I'm defining the species. The species most westerners won't get that because they use name from the perspective of a designation, whereas the ancient Hebrew perspective, designation is one-sixth of what her name is. The other components of what her name is has been divided in the English language, but in the Hebrew, there's one. So when he says name Jesus, you have been made a species. That's your essence. That is your function. That is your existence. Yahuwah Elohim back into flesh. That's good. That takes another level though, with with this, because once we can let that sink, like it gets in, yeah, that makes the word of God, the Bible, that if I'm defined by the name, that makes the word my name, that makes the Bible my biography, as James put it, your mirror. And I think there's levels of that too. What do you think about this, Zane, real quick, and we're going to call it good, because me and you can just talk all day, yeah, but but I think there was levels. I think there's a place to where we come into our relationship with God as an orphan, might like, right, right. So we're sons, we know we're sons, but we still have that orphan mindset. Yeah. Then we start to renew the mind, and then we start realizing, hey, I'm sons. And then, and then the closer we get in our sonship, the more we start relating ourselves to our Father. And the more we relate ourselves to our Father, the easy it is to accept ourselves by my Father, of my Father, through my Father. And then accepting some of the things you were saying. So it's like, in sonship, I see it like this. It's almost like we're seeing in the mirror, and we're seeing each other face to face. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. But I feel like there's a place that we become mature sons. I wonder if we begin to see ourselves the way Jesus says, if you've seen my face, you've seen the spirit of God, where he actually takes it more from like, like a mirror approach, and here, I'm talking Jesus' perspective here, right? To actually knowing His face is not just a reflection of God, it is the face of God. So I totally, one thousand percent agree with what you're saying. But I truly believe that the reason that that process is such a long process is that people want to be like Jesus without redefining who and what they are. That's really good. So there's like an, a, a dog trying to be a lion, but instead of accepting that he's a lion, he's still calling himself a dog, whilst trying to act to incorporate the attributes of a lion. That's a very long process. And that is what is plaguing the body of Christ because of a lack of knowledge. Yeah. That's why discipleship's so important. That's why getting around the right people are important. Yes. And, uh, and just as we're closing right now, um, people that follow me already know about who we are with Sonship Lifestyle, and, you know, how to contact us. The links down below. Get a part of our YouTube channel and stuff like that. You also know like our groups, Sonship Lifestyle Global Community. But I want to connect you with Zane's group, because you guys have heard enough about me and in our groups and what we do. But Zane is someone I would personally recommend. Like, I, I believe in Zane. Matter of fact, we cross-pollinate many people. You'll see in our trainings, you'll see that. Yes. And, uh, and one of the reasons why that is, is because we connect, and it's, and one of the thing is, is we, we love to refer one another because, you know, we believe in what, you know, where we're going with this thing and what we're doing. So that's really cool concept. And I tell Zane this all time, I said, you know, we got, there's got to be ministries that reveal. It's okay to do that. You know, whatever. Yeah. That's right. It's true. Role model that. So guys, I want to personally say, um, in the comments down below, if you're watching YouTube, down there in the description, Paul will put all the information in there. In the next, probably at some point today, at some time, so he'll have Zane's, uh, connection for his, his Patreon. He'll have connections for, um, his Facebook and all that. His books, all that stuff will be in there. So connect with Zane. Part of what Zane is doing, um, I, he'll take you on a really amazing level. He's been a big part of helping me and my processing over the last three or four, three or four years, however long we've been connected now, and it's been awesome. So I just want to personally give you an invitation to go check Zane out. Hang out with him. He's an amazing guy. I, I, I very much appreciate you, your, your kind wins there, bro. Very much appreciate that. And, um, it's, it's actually always been, or has has been, and I consider to always be an honor in the way Father connected us, bro. Yeah. And the way that we were connected, and being connected with you, you are, you are definitely one of the persons that I have known that was very close to my heart, which is, you're not, you're always never afraid to go where nobody else wants to go. And that is what walking in this means. It means that you have to be willing to be the Lord to redefine you and not try to fit your definitions and tell the Bible what it's seen. Yeah. But it's something that I saw in you, and I think that is actually something that pretty much merged us as brothers, as close friends, also that we have the same mind. We want to explore Christ, and we would not, we would not be boxed. So good. Hey, so I want to say this, whenever you get one of them in boxes in there, and you get somebody that reaches out to you in your inbox, and you pre-judge them before you actually connect them, that's what I actually did with Zane. When I was, I was thinking, I looked at Zane, I pre-judged him. I think, oh, he's, he's just going to ask me for money. And so I kind of like, I didn't know, I ignored it. I reached out to him at one point, but anyways, it was funny because it was what, a year or two years later, we actually connected. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I reached out to you actually because I seen a video you did, and I'm thinking, who's this guy, man? He teaches some of the things I teach. And like, I have to be honest with there was a moment saying, I thought I was the only one teaching. Like, I didn't know how ignorant I was to a lot of other teachers, you know, because I didn't listen to a lot of other teachers. I just really tried to zone in on the spirit. But then when I started listening, and I ran across people like you and a few other people, I'm like, holy cow, man, my stuff's old. It's not, it's not, it's not as ready as I thought it was for for a long while. It felt like a lonely part of my side to it before meeting you. It felt like this is grounds that I had to actually pretty much control the exposure of it because it was very contrary to what had been taught. And the more, the more we experiment with it and began to show results, then it proved that this information is functioning. And then you have to then have to deal with all of the opinions all around that that is not God, and that's not scripture. That's to me, that's so good. Well, I love you, Zane. I appreciate you, man. You're awesome. Thank you, everybody that watched this. You guys keep being amazing. Next Wednesday, we're going to come back. We're going to continue this. I think maybe we might run this for a minute and just let Zane finish all the things he has to say. I'm going to also bring on other people as well, guys. So we're not done with this. I, I was gonna start out with one Zane, and then right in the middle of that very first interview I did with you, and then the next one I do with Michael, I'm like, there's no way we can do this in just one interview per person. Like, right, right. Has to be ongoing. So this is part six. And about six, when we get to part 100, I think what, no, I'm sorry, but however long it takes, we'll, we'll, we'll just keep plugging away through this. So I'm excited to have you be able to share into people's lives. So we love you, Zane. Yeah, I just want to say again, bro, it's always a pleasure connecting and doing these things to do. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to actually come and share what has been behind the walls of the institute for some time. Yeah. And everyone who's actually come and actually have been listening, and those who will be listening, we appreciate you. With Paul, we appreciate your time, your time, and, and your attention. Awesome. We love you guys. God bless. Loved one. Until next time.