Transcription
Okay, so Gary writes in >> uh with something rather interesting. He and his wife are artists in the Cotswwells painting quirky studies of animals and oils. >> They've built a loyal following, moved from village craft fairs to more serious retail and now they're wondering how to make the climb into luxury. His question is quite sharp actually. What's the one thing that they mustn't lose if they're to be seen as luxury? And second, because they sell directly to collectors rather than through galleries, are they damaging their legitimacy or is client validation enough?
>> Ooh, I really like that. I like that he's put the question kind of that way round. It's not like what should we do to become luxury which you hear and we get a lot but what mustn't we lose um which tells me that they're already kind of understanding something about the whole thing.
>> Yes, I would agree with that and and I think the answer is authorship, you know, the the the the visible hand of the the artist. If you're >> I suppose if your work ever looks like it could have been knocked out by a factory in Hong Kong, you're finished, isn't it? Because, you know, collectible art is anchored in integrity. You know, you can recover from a bad season where you didn't have any inspiration or whatever. You can even fix your pricing.
>> But I think once people think that you've lost that authorship, >> that you're just producing for the market, you're never going to be seen as luxury, are you?
>> That's exactly what my father used to say about bacon cuz he absolutely loathed him and he said, He basic he said he's he was painting wallpaper for nihilists but even then I know right it's a bit savage but there we are um he admitted though that the one thing that you couldn't deny was that you would never mistake a bacon for anything else you know >> and this is it you know whether you like bacon or not the work has his hand and his mind stamped into every inch right >> you know art I suppose at the upper end doesn't it doesn't need universal adoration does it you know it requires that people believe it couldn't have come from anyone else more than anything >> right which is why Gary's subject animals in oils is both I think probably an asset and a risk I mean it's wonderfully distinctive but if you know it could so very easily slip into twe if they ever kind of stop guarding that eccentricity right >> yes I think precisely precisely that, you know, the moment it feels like gift shop rather than studio, you're done.
>> You know, I still remember this ghastly Labrador prince, one of my father's incredibly wealthy friends, >> gave my mother. So, she hung them between a hawkney and a turner just to piss off my father. And those those dogs actually looked like they'd been bred for tea towels more than anything else.
>> I remember that. Didn't she keep them up for like months just for her own amusement?
>> Absolutely. And to prove a point that money doesn't equal taste, >> right?
>> Which I suppose brings us neatly to galleries, doesn't it? Because that's that's Gary's second question really. Do you need galleries or can your collectors carry you? And I suppose the truth of it is if you want legitimacy >> with a wider audience, you need galleries at some level, don't you?
>> Right. But not forever though, right?
>> No. No. I mean, galleries are a bit like Mitchell and Stars. You know, they don't teach you how to cook necessarily, but they they signal to everyone else that you can. So I suppose a carefully chosen exhibition, >> you know, a show with the right curator or an appearance at a fair with the right neighbors, >> those things act as credibility then. So they let strangers say this is serious with >> Yes. And and I think without them you're whispering to people who already like you and with them you're suddenly in the room with people who wouldn't otherwise have given you a second glance.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And that's exactly what um Visionon did with the artists, right? That >> nobody needed Kasama dots or Mira, how do you say it, Paul? >> Makami. >> Murakami's flowers, right? To sell I think I've only ever read that word, but there we are. To sell handbags. But you've suddenly you've got like contemporary art collectors buying Vuitton and Vuitton collectors buying Makami. Right.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And it's not actually it's not just fashion, you know, Tiffany did it with designers as as artists. So Elsa Pereti and Paloma Picasso um Bulgary brought in Zaha Hadid >> and you know Hermes have been doing it for decades with the car scarves as artist collaborations. So each one is signed, credited and documented and it's the same kind of psychology that Gary needs to think about. So, you know, you're saying our oils are eccentric, but they're not craft, they're not twe, you know, they're authored works that are placed in contexts that make them serious, >> right? And the place uh the placement matters more than people will ever admit. Right? That remember, >> do you remember that I think you know where I'm going that um private view that we sneaked into that one? Uh, it was in Cork Street, I think.
>> In Cork Street.
>> Yes. Yeah.
>> Yes, I do remember. I seem to remember that you nicked three glasses of champagne and then nearly knocked over a Henry Moette.
>> Oh, Russell, you're not meant to give away. I'm not confirming Northern Ireland that that ever happened. Um, you know, that's it. But look, my point is, aside from champagne and statues and things, uh, half the people there weren't even, they weren't looking at the well, I certainly wasn't looking at the art. They were looking at who else was there. Um, and that context is half the work, right? And that's what galleries provide, >> right? And I Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I I think which is why the advice I would probably give to Gary is this. keep selling directly.
>> It gives intimacy and control.
>> But borrow the gallery world occasionally, you know, do a couple of exhibitions, ideally in spaces that um collectors respect. You know, not not not a scatter gun approach, not anything, you know, just because it has white walls doesn't mean you need to do it. So you have to choose >> carefully and treat those moments almost like stamps on a passport >> because afterwards you can go back to your collectors but now with added legitimacy >> right and those uh collectors they're going to love it because then they can say oh it's like you know teenagers that knew a band before it was famous. here before the gallery. We knew this band and you know that in itself just on its own that's social currency. Oh yeah, it is absolutely and I I think that the one thing that they must never lose is authorship and and integrity, you know, and and the one thing that they must add sparingly is institutional validation. And and that's how you climb from being, I suppose, charming >> to being luxury, >> right? Because it's not really different from what our grandparents did with the whole family collections, is it really? You know, they loaned out the Renoirs and the constables to exhibitions every so often, and they're not trying to sell them or anything. They're just trying to keep names in circulation, >> right?
>> Yeah, that's true. Although I don't think they do it anymore. Insurance or something. No.
>> Um, but it was a way of saying, you know, we own this, >> but we also belong in that conversation, you know, that that conversation of experts and collectors. And I think Gary and his wife need to do the same thing. You know, keep their oils in the hands of collectors, but send them out occasionally into the wider world to to remind people that it's serious art.
>> Right. Absolutely. And then avoid the trap of thinking that a waiting list alone is going to make you luxury cuz people will happily wait for a drek if it's fashionable. Right.
>> So true.
>> Right. Luxury requires that they wait because it's you, you know.
>> Yeah, absolutely. You know, make it worth waiting for and then ration the waiting, >> right? Which sounds suspiciously like Peragan's wine seller, you know. Half You know exactly what I'm talking about. Half the bottles are undrinkable, but they're completely rationed all the same. Right.
>> You're so Are you so right? Were you there when he tried? This is just an aside. Were you there when he tried to pass off a clar that had turned almost to vinegar as a an acquired taste?
>> I mean, yes. And I don't see you threw me under the bus. I'm throwing you under the bus. If I remember correctly, you drank it anyway just to be contrary. Not like you at all.
>> Yeah, I did. Because he claimed it went better with the gross.
>> Of course he did. It did. Yeah.