Is Morality Real? | Mike Huemer vs. Matt Lutz

So, we're here to debate the question, is morality objective? Or something along those lines. Are there objective moral facts? Yes or no. So, Matt Lutz will say no, there are not. Whereas Michael Huer will say yes, there are broadly basically. And the outline for our discussion, our debate will be a five-minute opening statement from Matt. Five, I mean a 10-minute opening statement from Matt, a 10-minute opening statement from Michael, and then moderated discussion. and then we'll conclude with a five-minute closing statement and then however much of that discussion is moderated by me or however much of it just flows naturally between the two of them uh remains to be seen. So Matt, why don't you go ahead and get us started.

All right. Sure. Um so uh I am the person taking the position that there are no uh objective moral facts uh whatever that means. Um, so, uh, I am both a moral error theorist and a moral skeptic. So, I'll spend a little bit of time talking about what both of those things mean just to just to get us kicked off here. So, uh, a moral error theorist, uh, is someone who thinks that there are no objective moral facts. Um the uh the book that popularized moral error theory uh JL Mackey's ethics inventing right and wrong starts out with the statement there are no objective values. So that's my view. There are no objective values. Um and uh there are subjective values in the sense that there are things that I value or you value that people in general value. Um but there is nothing that is sort of intrinsically valuable. Uh one way that I sort of like to uh explain this is to say that um although there are many things that I care about and that I value uh and many things that I I morally care about and morally value the the way that I I value them is a sort of in a moral sort of way um uh you know tied up with social practices of praise and blame and things like that. Um, the universe doesn't ratify my values in any sort of way. Um, there are no standards of correctness for me to be living up to in my valuing. They're just things that I do value. There are reasons why I value them having to do with, you know, my upbringing and evolution and, you know, lots of other factors. um but they are not reasons in the sense that I am responding to uh objectively correct moral values as they exist in the world. So um that's what a moral error theory is.

And I'm also a moral skeptic. Uh which means that I don't think that moral knowledge is possible. Uh in particular that's because I think that uh we can't have any evidence uh for the truth of any moral claim. Uh when we are forming moral beliefs, you know, sometimes people do form moral beliefs, many people form moral beliefs. Um, but when people form moral beliefs, they don't do so in response to evidence. They don't do that because they have good reason to believe that those moral beliefs are true. They form moral beliefs for other reasons. Right? So, because there's no such thing as a good reason to believe any moral claim, then that means that we can't have justified moral beliefs and we can't have moral knowledge. So, uh, those are the two basic positions that I that I'm going to be mostly arguing for today, right? One, a sort of kind of metaphysical position about what exists in the world, moral facts. They don't exist. And the other an epistemological position about the possibility of moral knowledge and the possibility of moral evidence. I don't think that either of those things are possible.

Um, so why uh very briefly on both these of course we're going to get into a lot more detail as things goes on. So I'll give both of these a bit of a lick and a promise uh just to start out with. Um, why don't I believe that there are moral facts? Uh well the the basic reason that I don't think that there are moral facts uh is that if there were moral facts that would mean that there would have to be a certain kind of reasons or a certain kind of normativity uh that exists in the world uh which is sometimes called categorical normativity and categorical normativity is a reason giving force. is the existence of normative reasons that exist independently of what I or anyone else happens to desire. Uh and this is sort of an essential aspect of our concept of morality. Um if you have a moral obligation to do X, then you have a moral obligation to do X no matter what. No matter what you want to do, no matter what you care about, no matter what anything, uh if you have a moral obligation to do X, then you have a moral obligation to do X. Period. So moral obligations are in this way supposed to be independent of your desires. Um where I understand desires very broadly to include goals, values, etc., etc., etc. Um, but I don't think that that idea of normativity really makes any sense. Uh when I have a reason to do something, it's because doing that thing will promote or tend to promote um the satisfaction of my desires. Uh if I want to uh stay up for this debate, uh it's it's after midnight for me here. Um, so if I want to stay up for this debate, uh, I should drink coffee to, uh, to keep myself, um, you know, awake. So that gives me a reason to drink coffee. Um, but if I had different desires, if I didn't care about staying up for this debate, then I wouldn't have a reason to drink coffee. This is a very general feature of desires. Um, desires sort of um, uh, are what are what rationalize actions for me. uh it makes sense for me to drink coffee because of the kinds of desires that I have, the kinds of plans, goals, values, yada yada, that I have where if I had very different plans, goals, desires, yada yada, then different things would make sense for me to do. Um and so that is a that's a pretty uncontroversial idea, right? Um the idea that uh the desires that I have make certain things be rational for me. Um and what's nice about that idea is we can kind of account for that in purely naturalistic terms, right? It's very clear what it means for me to uh, you know, want to stay up and for drinking coffee to be a way for me to achieve that goal and then for me to for to make sense for me to drink coffee to achieve that goal, right? Um, we don't need to appeal to anything mysterious here to sort of explain what's going on in that story.

But when it comes to uh categorical reasons, moral reasons, um these are things that like categorical moral obligations are things that I um have to do not because it would make sense for me in light of my values or goals or desires. There are things that I have to do because I have to do them because they have a property uh of to be done as uh as Mackey said. Uh and this idea of to be doneness which attaches to a reason uh I think is a very strange sort of thing um and so I just don't think that there are any reasons like that um that there's any sort of things that can rationalize my actions in that way entirely independent of my desires and because moral obligations were they to exist would be the kinds of things that would um involve reasons like that I don't think there are any moral obligations So that's why I'm an error theist. Um that's a very standard sort of reason to be an error theist. I don't claim to be a radical innovator there. Um this is the this is the usual reason to be an error theist. But the usual reason is a good one.

Now when it comes to uh epistemology on the other side, why don't I think that there are any evidence for moral claims? Why don't I uh think that there's um no such thing as moral knowledge? Um the the basic reason and we'll I'm sure we'll get into the details on this because uh Mike and I uh both have lots of thoughts about uh, you know, just sort of fundamentals of epistemology. Um, and we just come at it from very different angles. Um, so I am what is sometimes known as an explanationist. Uh which is to say that I think that we have reason to believe um claims if they are the best explanation of our evidence and I consider our evidence to be primarily our experiences. Um, so uh when I believe things about the world around me it's because those claims are the best explanation of why I have the experiences that I have. Uh, I believe that there is a coffee cup on my desk in front of me. Bing. Again, it's very late here. Um, uh, and the reason why I believe that is because I have an experience of this coffee cup. Um, and so the hypothesis that there really is a coffee cup on the desk in front of me is the best explanation of why I have that experience. Um, and that's not just true of the case of my belief about the coffee cup. Uh, this is quite generally true uh about just the fact of how epistemology works and how knowledge works. Um, our beliefs are supported by evidence when the truth of that belief is the best explanation of why I have the experiences that I have. Um, so therefore, uh, if I am to have moral evidence, right, evidence in favor of a moral proposition, that would have to be because the truth of some moral claim is part of the best explanation of why I have some experiences that I have. Um, however, I don't think that the truth of any particular moral claim is part of the best uh, explanation of any experience that I have. Um, the best explanation of my moral experiences, my moral intuitions, uh, so to speak. Um, uh, is a fully naturalistic and non-moral story. Um, this is a this is a point on which I was uh very influenced by uh Mike Humer's arguments in chapter 4 of his book ethical intuitionism uh which were pretty uh inspiring for me uh when I was reading those in in graduate school. Uh and I think Mike is right about that. The the best explanation of why I have uh the experiences that I have is not the truth of any moral thing. Um, now Mike says that that rules out a certain uh approach to moral epistemology. Uh and so we should be moral intuitionists instead. But I don't think that moral intuition has been any good. I think that the way we should understand all evidence and all knowledge is in terms of best explanations. And if the best explanation story isn't available in the moral case, that just means we have no moral evidence and no moral knowledge. All right. So, I think that's uh that's my 10 minutes. Um, uh, I'll kick it over to Mike for his opening statement.

>> Okay. Great. Thank you for that. Um, so, I guess I have several things to say. I don't know how much time this will take. I want to say some more about what the question is about objectivity. The way that I understand it is so uh something is subjective if it depends upon the attitudes of observers towards the thing. So uh value judgments would be or evaluative facts or whatever would be subjective if the truth of a value claim depends on the attitudes of observers towards the thing being evaluated. Okay. So like an an example of this would be the view that something is wrong just in case society disapproves of it. Okay. And then uh objectivity is just you know the opposite independent of the attitudes of observers. There are three versions of anti-realism. So, and Matt's Matt's main argument was an argument against moral realism, but not necessarily error theory. So, I'm just going to mention the other two forms of anti-realism. So, uh if there aren't any objective values, there are three possibilities. It could be that value statements are sometimes true, but they depend on the attitudes of observers. So, I call that subjectivism. Or it could be that value statements are neither true nor false because they're not even making claims about how the world is. Or it could be that they're just generally false. Right? So error theory is the third alternative. That value claims like uh murder is wrong are just false. Okay. What I don't like about subjectivism is uh it implies that statements like the following should be true. If society approves of baby torture, then I should torture babies or if I approve a baby torture, then I should torture babies or something like that. Uh, you know, depending upon exactly what the what version of subjectivism you have and those just seem obviously false and are really not the way this is not the way value judgments work. Okay, but I won't go into that more because that isn't Matt's view.

Um, the second view, non-cognitivism, holds that value statements are neither true nor false because they're not really making assertions about anything. Uh, so it's usually said that they're doing something like expressing your emotions or maybe they're giving commands or something more like that. So they're they're not truth or valuable. And what's wrong with this is basically you can't explain statements like the following. If it's wrong to do something, then it's wrong to get your little brother to do it. Okay? So if it's if X is wrong isn't a proposition, then the whole sentence if it's wrong to do something, then it's wrong to get your little little brother to do it doesn't make sense. Uh, you can't you can't plug something that isn't a proposition into the if then statement. Okay, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view.

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Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. Uh, then you know, I won't go into that more because again that's not Matt's view. 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feel like this entirely addresses Miles's objection, right? So, you know that oh, why should you care about centrality to self-conception? And I I think your answer is well, you know, it's going to give us the right judgments, right? But I don't feel like you gave a theoretical explanation of why that matters. So the spirit of the human conception is like all normativity comes from desires. But then okay, so like why do I care about centrality to self-conception? Like that should have to somehow come from my desires. That the fact that that matters at all should somehow have to come from my desires. Um other otherwise it's sort of like you're positing that it just intrinsically matters. But then why can't I just posit that you know um whether you can universalize the maximum of your action intrinsically matters right or just something that a moral philosopher would say that that just intrinsically matters right um oh so you know you made the comment that well sometimes you have desires that in some sense come from outside of the self and then I want to say well there's a sense in which like all desires come from outside of the self so you know like okay you get hungry and then you want to eat something and then where did that come from? I don't I don't know you know like your stomach was empty and then there were like some chemicals that went to your brain and like it wasn't that you decided to become hungry and then but it's just like all desires are like that you know uh some some of them some of them are based in biology and then maybe some of them came from your culture or whatever but like they were all it was always it was all influenced by outside or you know you didn't choose what your desires were maybe if you have some desires to begin with then you could choose to try to cultivate other desires but you know your starting desires couldn't have been cho chosen so then why wouldn't this mean that you know all of the desires are like that and then all of them are lesser importance you see what I mean

>> Yeah, I mean, so this is this is why I'm still trying to like play with this idea of uh, you know, exactly the best way to explain sort of centrality to the self because I mean, you know, in a sense all desires are kind of extrinsic to the self. Um, but in a sense they're all internal to the self, right? I like um, we we are we are more or less unified uh beings, right? Um, uh a desire for food, right? Uh hunger. Um, that's not really coming from outside of me, right? If that's just a biological urge in some sense, that's it's part of who I am, right? As a as a as a human being. Um, so you know, there there's a sense in which all desires come from inside of us and a sense in which all desires come from outside of us. Um, and what seems sort of obvious to me, uh, like when I just reflect on my own kind of deliberative perspective is that there there are some desires, some values or goals that I have um, which seem like central to me in in some, uh, perhaps ineffable sense, you know, that's sort of hard for me to to put my my finger on to like give a you know necessary and sufficient conditions for it. Um, but you know, like I love nuts so like that allerg example resonates with me. I'll find myself eating nuts at a party but you know I also love my wife and son. Um, and like that's that matters for me too like in a very different way than my love of nuts matters for me. Um, and

>> I think maybe the different way has to do with um evaluative beliefs, not simply desire.

>> Yeah. Um, I don't think that that's true. I think

>> which you don't want to say because you're an anti-realist, but you know what's really happening under the surface is that you judge one of these things to be actually objectively more important.

>> um, well, that's happening like even if your your sort of um explicit philosophical view is anti-realism it could still be that at some level you know you have that judgment about one of them being

>> genuinely sure valuable

>> yeah, I mean, I obviously can't completely rule out the possibility that I'm self-deceived about my own mental states because the hypothesis itself is like that I am selfdeceived about my in the United States. Um, but you know, I still it seems to me on reflection that I can I can detect a difference in the character of the desires, goals, values themselves, uh, even if it's hard for me to describe exactly what that difference in character is. And that difference in character seems to me to be um, of the highest importance.

>> Yeah. I mean, I guess is there a theoretical explanation of why it matters?

>> Yeah. Right. So, you're asking about a theoretical uh explanation. Um, so, you know, I I love the the Burn Williams internal and external reasons paper, right? Where he talks about reasons as being the sorts of things that can motivate us. Now, uh, a motivational constraint on uh normative reasons is is too strong, right? Uh, you know, read Mark Schroeder, uh, the the surprise party case. Um, there are uh, there are strong reasons we have that we can't be actually motivated to act on. Um, but what I think you know, Williams is is trying to to sort of put his finger on there. Uh, and other people have talked about in these terms is it it it seems um to have to do with like some sort of concept of alienation. Um, not to go Marxist about it. Uh, I know that that would offend you like not no Marxist you. Um, uh, but you know, some some sense in which uh, if if a demand is being placed on us, there needs to be some sort of resonance uh with our own values uh and sort of way of seeing the world and way of uh wanting to interact with the world. Um, that can you know, make our actions sort of make sense for us. Uh, and the idea of a reason which doesn't connect with our goals, values, desires, stuff like that in in any way um is it seems like hard to understand how that could get get a purchase on us, right? And so the the word that gets used here frequently is alienation. Um, and that seems like a good word to be using here. Uh, even if again, I don't have an exact analysis of what that kind of alienation is supposed to be. Um, but but yeah, it's it's the maybe like so one thing that I say in the book right um is imagine that there were no moral facts uh and there there was no standards of the universe for you to to live up to um how would you live your life? Would you live your life at all? Would you would you sink down into the couch in despair never to rise again? Um, because there was nothing to be done about any of your actions? Well, no. You would live your life in accordance with your desires, right? You would um pursue the goals that seem most worthy to you. Um, and I think that's all that that we ever do, right? So the more theoretical backing there um is that our our desires are what sort of structure how we um conceive of ourselves as sort of being in the world and interacting with the world. Um, and what seems worthy of pursuit for us. And so when we act in certain ways, what makes an action rational is if it engages in the right sort of way, if it synergizes, it resonates um with that deliberative perspective that I necessarily act from.

>> Yeah. Good. So um, I mean, your question was interesting about, you know, how would how would one live if one thought that there were no moral facts? Um, you're you're living in fact while believing that there are no moral facts, but so you would just continue to living living the way that you are. How would I how would I change if I didn't believe there were moral facts? Um, I would probably be more selfish. So, for example, like I I donate money to charity because I believe that that's the right thing to do, but also there's some cost to me. So, if I didn't have if I didn't believe there were moral facts, I suppose I would not think that I morally ought to donate to charity. So, then I would think might as well just spend the money on myself. Um, now, uh, I wouldn't go around, you know, just attacking people and stealing stuff all the time because, um, that's just sort of like not my personality. I just I wouldn't enjoy doing that. But, you know, a lot of the a lot of the stuff that I do, a lot of the um desires that I have and I think most people have are tied to their moral beliefs. Like the reason I don't want to do X is that I think that it would be wrong. So like um, you know, should I spread malicious gossip about my colleagues and like oh it would be fun to do that but then like the reason the reason I don't want to do that is that I would then think that that was bad behavior right that it was being disloyal or something like that and and the and the disloyal is partly moral like if if I don't connect that to value judgments or you know stuff about right and wrong good that it's not the same concept, right? And so like I think like trying to exercise um my moral beliefs I think that would radically change the way just the way that I see um actions in the world, you know, all the time. And then and I think that would affect the way that I behave. I I think that would be true of a lot of people.

>> Could we could we take five really quick? I need to run to the bathroom.

>> Yeah, sure. I'll I'll do that. Well, I don't want to deny that it'll make a difference for some people. Certainly, it'll make a difference for some people. Um, but I think for for most people, um, so th this is going to get tied up in a in a different thing. Um, which is why do people have moral beliefs if there are no moral facts, right? Where how how do we go so wrong, right? Where does the mistake come from? Uh, and the answer that most error theorists tell and I'm no exception here is that it's a sort of projective illusion. Um, we have certain kinds of values and when we have these values um our mind does this weird thing where it it spreads our desires on the world. um to paraphrase Hume, uh, and in so doing causes us to believe that the world wants us to have the attitudes that we have. Um, and that belief that the world wants us to have the attitudes that we have, that's a sort of moral belief. Um, at least potentially a moral belief, right? So there are things that outrage me and because there are things that outrage me uh my mind spreads itself on the world and I judge those things therefore to be outrageous right uh morally outrageous uh unjust um and then on that basis then I form the moral belief that you know there's an injustice here something like that um now if you get rid of that belief right the belief belief in objective outrageousness, a belief in injustice. Um, I'll still be outraged, right? Um, and that outrage is a attitude that, you know, might be very important for me, very central to my conception of myself. And so I might act against the things that outraged me in the same way that I would if I had more beliefs. um I just wouldn't have this sort of additional kind of cognitive overlay on top of these uh attitudes. So the the kind of person whose life would be dramatically changed uh if they came to become an error theorist is somebody who has moral beliefs and acts on moral beliefs but they don't have a corresponding desire like the um or you know value or anything like that. like they genuinely don't care about the thing in question. Um, they have just come to accept through philosophical argument or whatever that this thing has the property of being to be cared about. Um, and so so they they act as though they care about it because they think that that's what they have to do. um uh in a paper I'm working on now, I call this kind of person a contean psychopath, right? So, somebody who um doesn't have any sort of like genuine fellow feeling or anything like that. Um, but they uh nonetheless act out of a sense of duty. Um, now I admit contient psychopath is a is a bit of a term of abuse um to kind of get people onto onto my side here, but I think it's a genuinely sort of weird psychology to act out of purely a sense of duty without any corresponding moral value or or you know desire uh to to back that up. Um, I think they exist. Um, but they are people like this are dramatically over represented uh among moral philosophers. Um, and so moral philosophers worry a lot about what would happen if people stopped having moral beliefs. And I think very little would change actually for most people um because most people aren't this sort of um content psychopath.

>> Okay. Yeah. So um, I guess so two points. I mean one is there are just certain kinds of decisions where you don't expect the person to be particularly emotional. So I'm deciding how much money to give to charity and whom to give it to. And you know, like I and a bunch of other people in the effect of altruism movement think, well, I should give it to the most effective charity. And that's just sort of like this intellectual judgment. It's not emotional. And there could be like a charity that's more emotionally appealing to me. But I think no, I should give it to the one that's most cost-effective. And so that's that's what I do for that reason, right? And so like, you know, it's not it's not that I'm a content psychopath. Like no, like I I have emotions, but they don't necessarily match my judgments. So um and then the other thing I want to say is no it's not that um it's not that there are all these people who don't have emotions about uh you know about the things that they say are morally right or wrong. It's that their emotions are tied up with their value judgments. like you have an emotion because you have moral values which you think are you know real and just thinking that they're not real would change the way that you feel about things as well like so okay so like I'm indignant when somebody does something because I thought that it was unjust and then you know like there could be um there could be a dispute between two parties this could be two people who I'm not particularly connected to so there's no reason for me to be personally invested But um, you know, how I'm going to feel about the two parties is going to be influenced by who I thought was in the right. And then if I come to think actually there's no fact about who's in the right you know so then these are just two different perspectives then you know maybe I'll just feel very differently like I won't feel indignant on behalf of one party. I'll just be like, "Yeah, it's just like a conflict, right?" And then then, you know, then I wouldn't be motivated to step in to do anything, right? Just it's just, you know, two people with conflicting desires. Nothing you can do about that, right? You see what I mean? Like, I feel like that's a very common psychology just just to have your value beliefs just very strongly tied up with your emotions about things. I think that's normal.

>> Well, the value beliefs are are tied up with the emotions. Um, but you know, the the psychological evidence um has the causation running primarily in one direction, right? um, sort of the the social intuitionist model uh that John hate uh put forward you know before he was uh running heterodox academy and the other stuff that he's doing um like the the sort of psychological work that that kind of made his name uh as an academic is saying that really it's it's the emotions that drive the moral judgments instead of the other way around where every group of people studied except for moral philosophers. Um, so moral philosophers are are pretty weird in that sort of way. Um, and if you if you ask about like, you know, uh like if if somebody were to to lose their moral beliefs and you know how they would engage with the world I mean, you know, hi right? I basically unchanged right? I'm just uh, you know, that there that one uh famous line from Mackey saying that uh someone could be a moralist and a quite conventional moralist um they just uh realized that their their uh values are merely attitudes or policies with regard to conduct that they happen to to accept. Um, and that's how it is for me. Um, and you know, you you talk about uh you know, there there are judgments that you make that aren't particularly emotional. Um, I would just here hearken back to Hume with his distinction between the the hot and the cold passions, right? These are still passions that you have. There are still things that you care about. um it's just they're passions that you've had for for so long and they're so comfortable with it. They don't excite you in the same sort of way, but they still provide you with reasons uh because they are quite close to your uh conception of yourself. Um, I would I would say um so that's that's what I would say about a case like that.

>> Yeah. um, about the empirical evidence from Jonathan Height and people like that. I mean, I want to say that the cases that he's the cases that he's talking about or that he uses in his studies are not really like central cases, right? They're sort of a little bit weird cases. Um, so it's not clear that you could generalize about moral judgments and moral emotions in general. So, okay. So, like you know, you ask people Um, just ask people whether it's okay to torture a baby just for the fun of it then. Okay. Then then like is it going to be that their emotion caused their moral judgment or vice versa? So I'm well, I'm not sure how to study that. um like the way that height did his original studies like he would ask somebody about some um, you know, some cases kind of weird and then they he would ask them why they made the judgment that it's a case that would bring forth negative emotions. Okay. And then they would ask he would ask them why do you make that moral judgment? Then they would sort of like give a rationalization. Then like he would sort of refute refute their reason and then and then they just wind up but they don't change their judgment. they'd be like, "Well, it's just wrong anyway." Um, right.

>> So then you think, yeah, then you think like, okay, but it's not going to be possible to do that if you have some judgment that's just like sort of obviously correct.

>> Um, oh, the other thing I want to say is like, well, um, you know, your emotions could influence your judgments, but um, I mean, the emotions that you have are the result of some unconscious processing. And so there's like plausibly there's a cognitive process that leads into the emotions even if you don't have control over it and you're not um explicitly aware of it. But and also it's plausible that undermining the the judgment could still undermine the emotion, right? So like okay, you have an emotional reaction then that causes you to make a judgment. This could this doesn't have to be a moral judgment, right? There's a case in which you have an emotional reaction that causes you to make a judgment and then suppose that you just acquire very good reason to think that the judgment that you made was false. So then that could make you think that there was there's something defective about your emotional reaction as well, right? Okay. So like you got mad at someone and then you came to the conclusion that um they were being rude and then somehow somebody convinces you that oh actually that's not rude at all and then you would start to think okay so then I shouldn't have been mad at them and then you start to think okay so then maybe I should not act in accordance with the anger that I felt. So I mean like um this is how changing your beliefs about values would often change your behavior, right? Oh, okay. And then another comment I want to make was sort of about the cold passions. It's like, well, are we making the theory unfalsifiable now? So, um, okay. So, like I'm giving to charity and I'm giving to the most effective charity. And it doesn't appear to me that, um, my behavior is explained by my desires and emotions as much as by my judgments. And that could be because there are other charitable causes that appeal more in in a sort of like obvious way to my emotions, right? Like, I don't know, helping a group that I sympathize with, but not helping them as much as I could help another group. Okay, then you say, "Yeah, but you know, you really do still have a desire. It's just that it's a cold desire." And then I think, okay, well, now this is starting to look like an unfalsifiable theory because like, you know, how how do I show that that's not the case,

>> right? Yeah. I mean, so when it comes to the the effect of Altruist case, um, uh, like my understanding of of what's going on in a in a situation, uh, like that is that, you know, there there's sort of two things going on here. One is just you got a general sort of concern for the lives of others, right? Um, you know, children dying at a young age of malaria in subsaharan Africa is bad, right? um uh not meaning that as an objective moral claim, but just something that you know uh you think about that it seems awful. Um, and once you've got that, then you know there's a further thing. Well, then what should I do in order to to stop that, right? And so you can you can have a rational process, right, for thinking about, well, then I really ought to donate X amount to Give Well, um, or Give Well approved charity, uh, you know, to to get bed nets or whatever. Um, but but that that sort of rational process is of course driven by the initial emotional reaction, you know, when you think about the the young child dying of malaria um about how awful that seems and it does seem awful. Um, and then that's really all you need to get off and running, right? But I mean like what why am I choosing the most cost-effective one rather than the one that most appeals to my emotions? So like there you know there could be a case where okay so you know you get this appeal that there's this person who's in need and then it's very emotionally whatever effective and by the way some charities do this you know like whatever they send you tell you okay but then and then okay and then some people would just give to the thing that most emotionally appeals but then there are these other people who are like

>> yeah, but you know, I looked at the numbers and here's this here's this cause that is less emotionally appealing But it turns out that we could be more effective, right? And by the way, like the numbers, you know, like you could have people are sort of like not sensitive. We're not emotionally sensitive to numbers, right? So like you hear um this is a good example, you know, the blogger Matthew Adelstein, he has like this blog post about how you should donate to shrimp welfare shrimp, right? because there's like such a large number of shrimp that are maybe suffering right when when people harvest them. So like you should donate to that and like it's really hard to empathize with a shrimp. But like there's this argument that actually this is the way of doing the most good and that like okay help a million trip or help one child and like man the child appeals more right to your feelings and your desires but maybe there's an argument that actually this far more important.

>> Well, I we could continue this specific conversation for a long time, but I do want us to focus on the other half, which are these more strictly epistemological issues. And it will connect with this because that that first argument that you characterized, Matt, that that Mike gave is that the truth of moral obligations is more initially apparent than this requirement that all reasons be desire grounded. Now, initially I find that plausible and I think okay but but what that you can't use that in this context without being question begging um unless you then go into a conversation about the ways in which we might know that there are these objective moral principles or obligations or what have you. And so at issue here are these two different conceptions of how we come to know things. Uh Matt, you've said that you're an explanationist whereas Mike you're an intuitionist. Okay. So Matt, what is the issue with intuitionism? It's not appealing to an intuition, appealing to the way something seems as justification for believing that that is the way it is. Well, it's not really offering an explanation. It's just saying it's kind of warranted directly based upon the seeming. So what's what's your problem with that?

>> So I mean there's a couple things uh here. Um, so what Mike and I agree on here is that sort of experience broadly construed is where the rubber hits the road, >> right? We're uh we're experience firsters rather than than knowledge firsters. Um, the question is just um what is it that makes experience epistemically relevant, right? How how do experiences sort of um excuse me uh how do experiences support um claims? Um, and Mike's idea is that experiences, at least some experiences, have propositional content. And when you have an experience with propositional content, simply having the experience with the propositional content uh provides primapacia justification for a belief in that proposition, right? The proposition which is the content of that experience. Um, and I there's a couple things that I don't like about that. Um, for for one thing, I'm not sure what it means to say exactly that uh experiences can have propositional contents. Um, I I find this whole talk of the the content of experiences to be somewhat mysterious, to be somewhat opaque to me. Um, sure, you know, like I have qualia, right? there are things that things look like but you know I I see a world of colors and shapes not a world of propositions right um so the this talk of propositional contents has always sort of kind of bounced off me um so that there's a there's a sort of initial hesitation to accept that sort of framework for thinking about how experiences can provide um uh justification for me um and then there's also again uh like human different part of human but also content considerations just about how um our thought relates to the world and the the fact that our cognition does seem to be pervasively causally structured um such that I I you know although the world that I you know is manifest in my qualia my sense experiences is colors and shapes nonetheless I think about causation all the time everybody does um so why do I think about causation all the time. That's just because that's how my mind is structured. It's just structured to think in in causal terms. Um, so once you sort of put those those two thoughts together, um when it comes to then the question of why is it that the um you know visual experience of the coffee cup um makes me believe that there's a coffee cup and justifies me believing that there's a coffee cup. Um, the much more natural answer, uh, you know, so far as I can tell, is to say that, well, I have this experience and I also have this just general background kind of structuring causal belief which says that experiences like that are caused by coffee cups and so that's why the experience provides me with the justification. It's not because the content of the experience is a proposition and so the content of the experience then provides justification for that proposition. It's a different kind of story, a more causally involved story. Uh, and to the extent that I can make sense of the idea that this is a experience with the content of a coffee cup, that's because this experience inclines me to believe that there's a coffee cup in light of my background sort of understanding that experiences like this are caused by coffee cups. And so that's then why uh why I go on to believe that there's a coffee cup. And you know if all things are working correctly I'm justified in believing that there's a coffee cup and in fact know that there's a coffee cup uh on basis of a sort of uh correct understanding of causal structure about how my experiences relate to the world.

>> Okay good thanks. Um, so about the question of what's meant by the content of an experience just there's something so you have an experience something seems to you to be the case. The content of the experience is just what it is that seems to you to be the case. So there's a way that things seem. So you look at the table and it looks rectangular. It looks brown. So the content of your experience is something like the table is brown and rectangular. Something like that. whatever there there's an object that's round something like that. Um, and I think that okay, so why why should we believe that experiences have contents like this? Basically, I think you just can't explain a bunch of other stuff. So, one thing is you wouldn't be able to explain how people even formed concepts that refer to things in the world. So, like how do I have the concept of a coffee cup? Uh, it had to be that I had experiences that represented coffee cups in the first place. And then, you know, the related question is, well, how would I get causal beliefs? So how would I get beliefs about what this kind of experience is caused by? Um, I would so you know you have a certain kind of experience and you think oh this type of experience is caused by coffee cups. Well, that's because you had previous cases in which you believed that there was a coffee cup and then so like where did you get that idea from? And then that had to be because well your experience just represented that there was a coffee cup and then you just naturally accepted that. Right. Um, and then just as a more general point, so this this is my problem with the explanationist framework. Well, how do you get beliefs about explanation? Best explanation. So yeah, okay, I think that the best explanation of this experience I'm having now is that there's actually hand in front of me. And then where did I get that idea from? Like well, I have to have appearances and I have to basically accept that things are the way they seem in some in some sort of general way. Otherwise, like how do I know that that's the best explanation, right? And and you know, okay, so like you can appeal to other background beliefs that I have, but then where did those come from? And then and it all comes down to well initially I just started by assuming that whatever appeared to me to be the case was the case. And then I can start forming generalizations. So like if I if I already have beliefs about physical objects in the physical world, then I can start forming generalizations about causal relations between those two objects. and then I can get to judgments about what would be a good explanation or bad explanation. But I just don't see how I get any of that stuff started if I don't get to just start by assuming things are the way they seem initially. What I mean?

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, I I think that uh it's you don't need to have that sort of story here. Um, so maybe something that's kind of working in in my favor a bit here. Uh, I I need to do more research on this. um, is just how how AI works. Um, and maybe I'm maybe I'm completely wrong here because I'm not an expert in this. Um, but one of the one of the cool things about how AI models are trained is that like there's no propositional contents right there. It's it's just entirely based on sort of a kind of predictive processing, right? Um, about whether or not a certain sort of predictive structure is correct. Um, and if uh the the model makes a successful prediction then you um uh tweak all the values up a little bit uh that led to the success successful prediction and if it you know uh doesn't if it makes an unsuccessful prediction then you tweak all the values down a little bit that uh made the unsuccessful prediction. Um, and you can kind of start with any random distribution of values um, with dramatically unspecified nodes that aren't intrinsically representational. But if you just run this on enough data um, with enough compute, then people can, you know, AI models can produce some really incredible things. And the predictive processing model of co cognition. So to get away from AI for a second says that like this is kind of basically how the human brain works as well, right? When uh our um when our brains our brains are constantly in the business of predicting and when they make a successful prediction then that strengthens all the synapse connections that led to that successful prediction. Uh, and when an unsuccessful prediction then things get weakened. So the ability to cognize the world, to structure the world, to come up with a a causal model of the world doesn't need to begin with um, you know, experiences that such and such is the case and then we can sort of um build from that in a foundational sort of way, right? We can we can have a very unstructured um brain. I mean, not entirely unstructured. Uh, we're evolved creatures. There are some underlying cognitive structures that we're born with. But a mostly unstructured brain and simply through a process of uh predictive refinement um, we can come to have an extremely sophisticated uh, you know, conceptual apparatus for thinking about the world and to construct uh extremely complex and highly reliable causal models of the world. So that's just, you know, it's it seems remarkable that our brains could do that but in fact they do and they can and that's what's really cool about human brains and increasingly about AIS as well.

>> Okay, good. So, uh, you know, we probably have a disagreement about nature of AI. So, basically, I think that computers have no mental states whatsoever and uh they understand nothing whatsoever. they have no concepts, you know, and uh they only have representation sort of by courtesy like so like the data in the computer only represents things because of because of us because we interpret it as representing things that sort of thing. Um, and then okay so and you know, there might be something similar you know in your brain when it starts out so it might be that at at the beginning your brain also doesn't have any real representations and maybe at the beginning you don't have consciousness and then you know it it develops but there is some point at which you start having real mental states and so you know I want to think about well okay At some point like you know by now you have beliefs about the external world your perceptual beliefs and I want to say well those derive from your having experiences with certain content. So you had experiences that represent represent something in the world and however that came about. I think that leads into your being able to have beliefs that represent things like the reason why you can have a concept that refers to coffee cups that you had experiences that refer to them first. I I guess you know somebody might disagree with that but I let let's see if we do we agree on that point.

>> Um, not really. Uh, so so just to just to get clear on on what I'm saying about AI here. I'm I'm not committed to the idea that that AI uh that computers can have mental states or anything like that. Um, the the point is is simply pointing out um how at least functionally um AI seems to make be able to make what seems to us to be um some sophisticated conceptual distinctions um and those uh abilities to draw distinctions um emerge organically um from a very sort of strange process. process of predictive refinement. Um, and there is substantial empirical evidence that our own brains work on a similar process of predictive refinement. Uh, and so my the the point that I'm making with the analogy to AI is that um it is certainly not weird or crazy. Maybe it's weird in a way because like AI is weird. Um, but it's it's not crazy to to think that our ability to make these conceptual distinctions can emerge organically through a process of predictive refinement. Um, and there doesn't need to be sort of prior contentful experience in order to obtain um concepts.

>> Well, I guess I would I mean I would like to just sort of reflect on Yeah. But what actually happens like is it actually the case that you know you have experiences that don't have any content? I mean, you know, you can reflect on your experiences right there and like there's a way that things seem to be right? It's not just like you're not just having like some qualia with meaning right?

>> Um, I go back and forth on that. Uh, like one of the things I started out by saying is this idea that um having a contentful experience um that's something of an elusive notion to me. Um, and in certain moods I I'm can almost grasp what you're trying to say and in other moods it seems to entirely elude me. So, um, I I I I see what you're trying to get at there, and I'm not entirely unsympathetic. Um, but I I can't quite get there myself.

>> Well, can I ask a specific question because I feel like this might bring out some further insight is like logical and mathematical truths, and we kind of talked about that, Matt, where I feel like that's the that's more difficult to explain under an explanationist paradigm. And yet but and yet at this I can see how it's explained on an intuitionistic one which is take the truth the mathematical truth that 2 plus 2 equals 4. And if you ask me like why do you believe that? I would say it's just because it seems to me to be the case very powerfully so when I think about two plus equals and four it has there's an overwhelming seeming that it is true. And so that fits in with intuitionism. But then if you said, well, now it's just that we we infer this as the best explanation of what of what? So there you go. Seemings and mathematical truths. What how do we explain this on an explanationist paradigm?

>> Right. Well, I don't want to completely recapitulate what I said like uh at the end of our our last conversation together because that was like a 10-minute um spiel. Uh, I'll I'll just, you know, to to try to I'll I'll kind of try to tie that conversation back to what we were just talking about uh a second ago and say that like I don't deny that we have experiences uh when we you know are trying to do math, right? There's something that it's like to engage in mathematical reflection and that that does count as as evidence uh of a kind uh for us. Um, I just don't think that that the way in which that operates is that um I have a an intellectual seeding with the propositional content that 2 plus 2 equals 4 rather um I think 2 plus 2= 4 like I I repeat that that thought in my head um and that gives me a certain yeah sensation um seems right right there's a there's a certain sort of feeling of confidence that comes comes along with that um maybe that's not exactly the right word but you know reflect yourself in 2 plus 2 equals 4 that experience that you have right there right uh that feeling of let's call it confidence um I think that that that tells us something um and I think what it tells us is basically that we are applying our concepts correctly so I think that uh mathematical truths are conceptual truths um and that the evidence of our experiences uh is an indication of how our concepts are related to one another. Um, and uh we can sort of tell the same sort of explanationist kind of quasi experimental story of sort of like plumbing the relationships between uh our concepts. Um, just by uh sort of reflecting on various mathematical ideas um seeing the reactions that we have then figuring out why we have those reactions. And that tells us something about the structure of our mathematical concepts.

>> Okay, good. So, that sounds like what an empiricist would say that you you have to explain.

>> I'm an empiricist. So,

>> there you go.

>> Have to explain all the opriori knowledge um as analytic and then you know they're like just examples that appear to be examples of synthetic opriori knowledge. Here's you know like a famous one. Okay. So nothing can be completely red and completely blue at the same time. And then and so it looks like you know this priori looks like it's necessary truth. Is it an analytic? Well, okay. So like here's an account of what analytic knowledge is or know you you use the term conceptual truth. So here's here's an account of what that is. Um, you could substitute synonymous expressions into the statement and get a truth of logic. So that's the fian account of analyticity. Okay. So nothing will be completely red and completely blue. How do you substitute synonymous expressions? Okay. There's no definition of red or or blue. So there's not a obvious way to substitute synonyms. So it looks like it's synthetic. Okay. Other examples. And then of course you know there are moral truths that are examples but you won't like those. But uh you could have some truth of metaphysics like causes must occur at or before the time of their effects. saying, "Okay, seems like, you know, maybe some other copyright knowledge there and okay, you know, there there are examples like that, right?"

>> Yeah. I mean, I'm just going to want to say that they're all analytic. I have a broad conception of analyticity. I don't like a fragian account of uh analyticity. I think that whole positivist program is uh going in the wrong direction. Um, I guess Fraga wasn't himself a positivist but you know the the the movement he inspired um is taking things in the wrong direction. Uh, yeah, I think I think that this is like, you know, the the example of of being you know, red and uh nothing can be entirely red and entirely blue. Um, this might be I don't have something like super worked out here. I've thought a little bit about this kind of case um, but not, you know, in great depth um, but it seems like there's a very obvious sort of thing that one might say about a case like that which is that, you know, what it means for something to be read that's sort of like a a phenomenal concept right? It's like it'll give me a certain sort of experience when I look at it and we say it's red all over. It's well the same experience whenever whenever I'm looking at all of that and then same thing with blue right? That's another experience and I can know that red and blue are different experiences just by my familiarity with red and blue. Um, and so just by my familiarity with what it means for something to be red all over and what it means for something to be blue all over. Um, it seems inconsistent for something to be both red and blue all over. Um, and that is a manifestation of my understanding of the concepts of what it is for something to be red all over and what it is for something to be blue all over. uh, and a certain sort of austere forgian conception of what an analytic truth is doesn't yield the result that that's an analytic truth. Um, but that just shows that that austere forgian conception of analyticity is um flawed. As for what a better conception of analyticity is, I'm still working on that. Um, but there must be a better one.

>> Well, cog Mike, if I may, a cognizant of the time, I figure it'd be best to move into closing. And Mike, feel free to say what you were gonna say in that in that brief snippet. Um, so Matt, if

You just want to give your closing summation. You can take five minutes or you can take less. It's completely up to you.

Well, the way that this has um gone on uh is that it's been a lot of you posing challenges to me and me answering them. Um, so I think I'm going to sum up by saying that everything I've said is good and correct and I've successfully answered all of your challenges. Uh, and I thank you for the opportunity um to, you know, spend so much time talking about how I think about things. Uh, it's it's been a real pleasure. Uh, Miles, always good to talk to you. Uh, and Mike, you as well. Um, you know, I'm I'm a more junior philosopher to to Mike. Uh although I I disagree with with Mike a lot about many things as we've seen today uh I have learned so much from from reading his work. Maybe maybe I'll close with a a little anecdote um which is when I was at uh USC for graduate school um Mark Schroeder asked me if you were to be a moral realist what kind of moral realist would you be and I said I would be Mike Humer and that took Mark by surprise because he thought I'd be some sort of Cornell realist because I'm a I'm a naturalist naturalistically inclined.

>> Great. Thank you. Uh well I want to thank you also for participating and Miles for organizing. I think this was a great discussion um very interesting and illuminating. Uh we agree on the failures of ethical naturalism, right? Which which is a view where they try to reduce moral facts to um reduce them to non-moral facts and then and I think we agree about why it fails, right? Which is you know basically hypotheses like that hypothesis where uh some moral property is identical to some natural property do not in fact explain anything um they don't explain any observations. Okay. And then you know Matt then concludes that oh well then we have to reject morality because a belief can only be justified if it helps to explain our observations. But then I conclude no a belief doesn't have to explain observations. Okay. Um what else? Uh although Matt has just disappeared, I'm just going to keep talking anyway. Um I was going to comment more about Opri knowledge and I guess I think um you know there's a danger of sort of like reducing your account of analyticity to necessity. So okay, so nothing can be completely red and completely blue at the same time then. Right. And then Matt said something like, well, you just see that the experience of red is incompatible with the experience of blue. And then but you know what does incompatible mean? It just means that something can't it can't be both at the same time. Right? So like you know the account of wise analytic comes close to the account of just that it's it's a necessary truth. Um now you know my account of how we know that is well you understand what red is and you understand what blue is or perhaps you understand what the the red qual is you know like the experience and you understand what the blue qual is and if you understand the natures of these things you'll see that they're incompatible right and but that's that's the case with a priori knowledge in general it comes from understanding the nature of a certain abstract object um it's not from it's not just the meanings of words. It's not just concepts. It's the thing. Okay. So to me like this is this is the crucial difference like what the what the positivist would say is um the reason why it's okay with the logical positivist to have analytic oprior knowledge is that they think that analytic knowledge is not really knowledge about the world. It's just knowledge about like the meanings of words which is determined by conventions or maybe it's knowledge about the analysis of concepts. So it's not really objective something like that. What I want to say is no like the priori knowledge and actually I think this is true of analytic knowledge as well as synthetic opriori knowledge no it's not it's not based upon the natures of the words or the concepts it's about the natures of the things that those words or concepts refer to. So like it's the fact that blessess is incompatible with redness. It's not something about our conventions right or like the way that we decide to divide up the world. It's the fact that these things are incompatible that that you see and that makes you make that judgment. So, and then I think something similar about moral moral judgments. So, if you understand um what bad is and you understand what pain is, then you're going to see that pain is bad. And like you might even say like you know saying that something is let's say you maybe the better term is suffering. Okay, you think that something constitutes suffering and it's not even proton or bad, then you must have misunderstood something and right like like I think that's true similarly to how if you think that something is red but you don't think it's colored then you've misunderstood something right and that's not to say that it's the moral judgment is analytic you know like I think they're both synthetic but also by the way I think if you don't accept this for a gayan account of analyticity like well there are other accounts but I I think it's going to make the distinction between analytic and synthetic a matter of degree and not qualitative. And then that's going to make it hard to draw the line and say that you could only have analytic operator knowledge. Okay? So like this is an alternative account. Something counts as analytic if your failure to accept it on reflection is evidence of failure to understand the concepts. Okay. But so like that. Okay. So that would get you that's a broader account that would get you more things to be analytic. But also I think that makes analyticity a matter of degree rather than a purely qualitative distinction. So that doesn't mean there's no distinction. But if it's a matter of degree then I think it's harder to make this claim that all opriori knowledge has to be analytic. So anyway, um okay uh you know concluding thought um you know uh you should be a rationalist not an empiricist and then once you're a rationalist then you know you'll have no problem with accepting intuitions and ethical intuitions in particular.

>> All right well thank you gentlemen. Great debate, great discussion. Uh Matt, especially thank you to you. It's 2 am your time I think or 1 a.m. or something. It's very late. Yeah, it's 2 am. >> No, no. I appreciate you taking time for this to >> It's been a good conversation and uh and thank you for being here and we should do this again sometime. >> All right. Thanks,