[Music] Hey, hey, hey.

Boys and girls, ladies and gents, welcome to another episode of Clutch Conversations. It's your boy Mike. We back at you one more again live on another Thursday night. Welcome to Clutch Conversations. Appreciate everybody sliding through. Uh, big shout out to my lovely wife Jakar. Y'all know how we do. Make sure y'all show us some love in the comments, man. And don't stop there. Make sure y'all hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button and hope smash that notification bell so you can get notifications each and every time we drop a video here on the channel. Really appreciate the love. Really appreciate the support.

Let's hit some housekeeping items up real quick. Like uh, first off, follow us everywhere you can find us. And where can you find us? You can for sure find us on Morph Market, man. So go check out a Morph Market. We actually got a couple auctions going live right now. So uh, make sure you tap in with that. Those are going to end on uh, Saturday night, man. So, definitely go check it out, man. Throw some bids down. Uh, see if you uh, win something for a good deal. Check us out on Instagram, Herp Collectors, Herp Collectors Network. Make sure you following both pages. Uh, definitely uh, tap in with us there, man. If you ever got any questions about anything, definitely feel free to hit me up, reach out anytime. And check us out on Facebook. Don't hit me up on Facebook, man, because uh, I don't be on the Facebook Messenger like that for the business app. It'd be so clunky. But definitely check us out on Facebook and follow the page. Uh, but like I said, man, the best way to hit me up if you don't have my number is to hit me on IG. So definitely check us out. And make sure you checking out not only Clutch Conversations, but all the shows on the Herp Collector network. Check us out on your favorite audio podcasting platform. uh, that Spotify podcast, Apple podcast, all that good stuff. Make sure you tapping in with us right there. And please be sure to follow, rate, and review. It really helps us out. Appreciate the support.

Speaking of support, you know how we do. Make sure you support both US Arc and US Arc Florida. If you're not familiar with those organizations, uh, definitely get familiar with those organizations. Those are organizations that are organized to help protect our rights as reptile keepers. So, make sure you're supporting them, man. It's one of the best defenses we have against uh, things coming out through the legislature where people making decisions about stuff they don't really understand and then it impacts us. It impacts us from a pet keeper perspective, a hobbyist perspective, a business perspective, all that, man. So, we need everybody who affiliated with these reptiles and amphibians or any exotic animals. Make sure you're supporting US Art and US Art Florida. The link for both organizations is in the description of this video.

And if you ain't tapped in with the double clutch Patreon, don't know what you're waiting on. Me and the homie Matt from Ebony and Ivory Reptiles running double clutch Patreon, man. One of the best Patreons out there. So definitely make sure you tap in with us, man. We have a lot of fun, man. Definitely uh, enjoy building uh, that community and tapping in with everybody. So make sure you tap in with us. Double clutch Patreon. We got four tiers. Uh, so you can got plenty to choose from. Definitely tap in with us.

And then last but not least, make sure you're checking out all the shows on the Herp Collectors Network. We got seven shows that we running. We on six days per week. Definitely check it out. We hitting multiple species. We even hitting plants. So definitely make sure you checking that out and showing some love to those shows.

Speaking of folks showing love, man, the sponsors know they show some love. So, we're gonna show some love to the sponsors.

Join Canova's Patreon today and get access to hundreds of hours of exclusive educational content designed to help you run a successful ball python business. Get insider information on the latest genetics, hot new combos, and market trends, learning directly from the world's leading ball python designer. With five benefits packed tiers. You may be asking yourself, which tier do I join, Bit Mike? Well, if you're on the fence, I'd recommend the student tier. When I first joined the Patreon almost four years ago, this is a tier that I started on, and it's only gotten better since. So, don't delay. Join the Kenova Patreon today.

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In life, success doesn't come to you, you go to it. In this game, forward thinking is the key to innovation and staying relevant. Plan your work and work your plan. Lose yourself in the art. Lose yourself with wetter morphs.

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Big, big, big, big shout out to the sponsors. Appreciate you fellas. Y'all make sure y'all tap in with the sponsors. We got Kenova, we got Armless Angels, Ball Pythons, and we got weather constrictors. Make sure you tapping in with all them.

Let's see who tapping in with us tonight. What's good? We got the homie John Mission Morphs in the building saying hello to everybody. Appreciate you coming out, fam. We got John from Ly's Pythons in the building. What's good, homie? We got James Perry in the building. What's up? What's up? We got the pie man himself saying, "What's up to me and wifey?" What's good, Dwight? Appreciate you reaching out, homie. See who else we got. Got Big Matt from KMBB Reptiles. What's good, homie? Appreciate you coming out. We got the Herpin Harbins in the building. Something told me I was going to see the Herpin Harbins tonight. Josh and Alicia in the building. What's up? Appreciate y'all coming out. We got the homie Santos Exotic World Geckos. Appreciate you coming out, fam. And we got Low Town Reptiles in the building. Appreciate you coming out. We're going to stop it right there. We're going to get this intro video and then we'll be right back.

Won't you listen to me? I got that flavor. I know you're dying to be. I ain't no dancer. Just got some hip in my feet. I throw your hands up. You bring the light. I got the view. You make fire. I'll add the fuel. Follow my just watch. Turn the heat up. We know who looking like this. For real. We know who looking like this. We know who looking like this. For real. We know who looking like this. We know who looking like this. For real. We know who looking like this. We know who looking like this. For real. We know who [Music] like my stomach hurt.

Brian, what's good? What's good? What's good? How you doing, brother?

Doing good. I always crack up when I see Jeremy and Jenny cracking up like that because I saw that and I know what that was about.

Yeah, man. That was hilarious, man. I was dying laughing. That's awesome. It's fun when those organic moments happen. You know what I mean?

100%. 100%. So, how you been, man? It's been a minute since you've been on the show, uh, but saw you a few months back, man. So, talk to us. How you been, bro?

It's been good, man. It's been good. We've been going through the transition. I think everybody by now kind of knows what we're doing. I mean, you know, at first we were trying to get the word out. We're not going anywhere. We're not getting out. You know, just, you know, a lot of people don't know this about me, but I mean, I worked with colubrids and other species for over 20 years, you know, before I had a ball python. Oh, boy. And, you know, and after 10 years with ball pythons, I mean, it's it's been great to us, but it's so time consuming compared to the colubras. And, you know, I'm 55, man. My wife and I want to travel. We want to go do do more things, you know, not just do snake shows, even though we have a blast at the shows. I mean, we're we're leaving tomorrow morning for the All-American Reptile and Plant Expo in Nashville. So, hope everybody that's in the area comes and checks that one out. It's probably going to be the biggest show Nashville's ever seen, you know, and I think it's going to be awesome. Uh, you know, we were in Charlotte and of course Bob show, you know, in Atlanta. So, we've been busy this year. This is our last show to August. Uh, so we're kind of taking a little bit of a little bit of a break. got a got a vacation scheduled in July. But man, it's it's been going good. Uh, we've been we've been rocking and rolling and shipping snakes and selling snakes and just, you know, having a good time.

Yeah. Yeah, man. Uh, it sounds like that Nashville show gonna be a lot of fun. Nashville in and of itself is is a fun place. And then having the expo there, that's gonna be dope, man. I I I've always been astounded that Tennessee doesn't have, you know, I mean, I'm not dogging on any of the promoters that do shows here, but I mean, you know, they're they're smaller, you know, 30 vendor at the most, you know, shows. And, you know, I haven't done that well at them to be honest with you. And this this will be our first Tennessee show in years. And I mean, I'm stoked to be able to just drive a couple hours down the road, you know.

Yeah. Nick and Troy put on a real good show. Real professional. Uh, definitely checking off all the boxes. Uh, it's it's helps that they vended, you know what I mean? Uh, it's just like that show, Bob's show, you know, I mean, when you take somebody who's, you know, made their living vending, you know, they've seen the good, they've seen the bad, and they know how to, you know, they know how to get rid of the bad, and it doesn't take very long to catch on, you know, to to really know how to promote and run a show. And we did Charlotte uh right at a month ago. Yeah. And it it was a lot of fun. You know, we didn't have our best show. I mean, traffic was down just a little bit, but I mean, there was a lot of other external factors, too, you know? I mean, it's you don't ever judge any show up on show.

100% 100%. Yeah, I had fun when I went to Charlotte. That was a that was a fun show. Uh, chatting, meeting up with folks, doing the podcast, all that good stuff. Uh, definitely had fun at the Charlotte show. Can't wait to get back to the Charlotte show. So, uh, I do want to, uh, spin the block a little bit, um, and get back to what you were saying about getting out the ball python. So, break it down for us. Like, I know from what I've seen, like you just been like rocking it out with the ball pythons. Uh, both in animals produced, you producing like some super super dope animals, and then on top of that, like you uh, real good sales, which I do want to get on get into uh, during the second half of the show, but break it down for the people who might not have heard like the full story in terms of uh, why you decided to get out of ball pythons.

Well, you know, I mean, automatically people assume it's the market, and I can assure you from the balance sheet, it's not the market. We're we're not going to make near as much doing what we're doing now as what we were making then. Um, you know, one of the things that I think it kind of really started to get to me last year because I mean, a lot of people have a partner, a helper, you know, that sort of stuff. My wife is awesome. She does comes to every show we do. She helps set up. She's a rock star as far as that goes. She's not a snake person. She's not gonna clean tubs. She's not gonna clean the rodent room. She's not gonna feed snakes. You know what I mean? She's not gonna pull a clutch, you know? I mean, so I mean, it's been me doing this now since pretty much 2015, 2016 area. Um, and it just got to a point last year where I had I think I had 37 clutches hatch in a six week window. I mean, it was it was something insane, you know? I mean, I I had I had three of my incubators at it was at the end of the season, but this was in like September, October. Um, you know, I had three of my incubators were completely full of shed boxes with baby snakes in it. I remember I remember moving 216 hatchling ball pythons to tubs on the same day, taking photographs of them, identifying them, sexing them, recording them, printing clutch card, you know, I mean, all that stuff for them. And you know, we also around that same time kind of realized, man, we haven't been anywhere in a long time. And I started thinking about it and I kind of knew when it got to be about September, October and I hadn't even really thought about pairings, you know? I mean, it was like, you know, I mean, I hadn't even like started to think about pairings. And the thought crept up in my head then, but then I'm like, no, surely I can't do that. And I mean, we had a really good hog no season last year. you know, I've got a bunch of other species too coming up. And you know, toward later on in the fall, I guess it was right around fall tinley, you know, we were driving home and I just kind of brought up the idea because, you know, I mean, I've been running, you know, 250 adult room and an 80 tub rodent room by myself, you know, and that's and working a job, too, you know. I mean, it's not like I don't work. I do work from home, but I mean I I still do plenty of work, you know, for my actual job on top of this. So, you know, it's back and forth, back and forth. And I think I just reached a point last year where my passion for ball pythons just kind of waned. You know, it just it just got to that point. And, you know, a lot of people were like, well, why didn't you keep some? I'm like, well, because then I can't build what I want to do next because then they're taking that space that I need, you know, because with the with the colubras we're working with, we'll have a lot less adults, but those adults have a lot more babies, you know. So, so we, you know, we got to have room. I want to get it down to one room. I want to get it down to where I don't have to maintain a romantic room anymore, you know. I I want to, you know, I don't I hate to call it retirement, but I mean, you know, I want to kind of slow it down and just kind of do what I enjoy. I mean, you reach a point in life, whether it be age, career, financially, you know, those things where you get to the point where the things that may have driven me four or five years ago aren't driving me as much now to do the same thing. And I just want to get back on more of the passion end of things. Uh, I also want to pay it back a little bit. And you know, like just working with ball pythons, it was all consuming, but you know, I want to get back to working with some things I've never worked with before. And, you know, introduce new people to new species, you know, that they wouldn't maybe normally see at, you know, every show. Um, so, you know, that's pretty much what it was. So, I made the decision and I started sending lists out in November. And at that point we had 176 adults left and 422 hatchlings. And as of today I have 96 hatchlings. Well juvenile juveniles and hatchlings um and ball pythons left. That's it. Although all the rest of them have left. So all the adults gone. I've got one adult. He's a 17 year old male normal named Bert. That was that my son got when he was three. And you know and he's got a he's got a tub here. You know it doesn't even have a scan code on it. It just says bird, you know. He eats about 10 12 times a year. You know, he's he's getting older and, you know, just he's just just a chill snake. But he's one I can pull out with anybody here. And he's one my wife will hold because you know, she's seen scouts pass him around and you know, kids at my son's school, we take him in there and this that they would uh, you know, they they would pass him around. Bert Bert won't even hardly bite a feeder, much le much much less one.

That's what's up. That's what's up. Uh, so how how you feeling now as far as uh, now that you've got rid of so many? Like does part of you miss it any or there's still plenty to do. You know what I mean?

It's like I've gotund I think 137 hog noose eggs in the incubator right now. Another one due to lay probably while we're away, but my son's dog said, so he'll be here to pull it if he has to. Um, you know, and then I have my first four pre-lay sheds for second clutches today. So, I mean, we're probably going to do 220, 200 to 220 hog nodes this year, uh, with any kind of luck with second clutches. That would be my that would be my forecast, you know. Anyway, um, and then I didn't have a great luck with bullsnakes. Didn't have any fertility there. My Mexican pine freaking damn near slugged out. Like, I got three good eggs out of 20, you know? But, uh, that's just part of part of dialing in your broom, I think. Part part of my problem was with all the bo my room's a wreck right now, but I'm g I'm gonna show you like I got where racks used to be. Like I got boxes and incubators stacked up and then we've got the racks over here and then there's some baby racks over on this side. See my cheat sheet notes I got hanging there. But uh, you know, it's it it was getting too hot and when it gets too hot with the colubridge, you're just going to have mixed fertility. Uh, it was very hard to keep the room below 80 degrees. Uh, usually in the summer it'd stay 82 83. Um, so I just think I I think even with a good strong solid bumation they just warmed up too quick and the hognos that I'm breeding well there's two in here but they're on the bottom of a rack and then there's 10 in my son's room and haven't had that problem in there but that room stays 75 you know 7475 which is kind you know kind of where they need to be.

Okay. Okay. I imagine you was selling off uh, at least for the adults like group packages and stuff like that.

I did a few of those, but man, you'd be surprised. Most of them went onesie twoosy. You know, there' be one, two, or three. Uh, you know, one one breeder that we know really well bought a package of I think I think he got 19 and then and then another breeder bought nine. Okay. Uh, other than that, I don't think there was a package of more than three that left because I wasn't in a hurry, you know? I mean, that was the thing. I mean, I'm this is not a fire sale. That's what you know, I mean, of course, when you start putting a lot of adults on work market, you start getting people coming out thinking, you know, you need the money real bad or so, you know, something like that. I'm like, no, I'm going to get value out of these. These are good quality. I mean, I promise you over the our collection was refined down to where what we had left is my stuff, you know, and and you know, but it but it you know, it made for a really good year and it'll it'll make for a good transition into 26, which should be a really big year. this this year will be a little bit smaller, but you know, we'll have 400 plus, you know, hatchlings next year. That's kind of the goal. And, you know, I I don't want to I don't want to lose any steam, but, you know, with having a low humidity animal like the bullsnakes, the ball pythons, the gopher snakes, so much easier to keep them. You know, I mean, it's it's they're easier to clean. They're easier to keep. Uh, they don't have the strong temperature requirements. Uh, I'm planning on turning my rodent room into a broomation chamber and basically eventually broomate everything, babies and all. I mean, they would in the wild. There's no reason not to. And there's lots of studies that show that growth rates actually improve if you bur them rather than feeding them through the winter. Um, so, you know, and then it's it's more natural for them. Um, yeah, I haven't gotten there yet, but I mean hopefully hopefully by maybe the 26 27 season I can have that put together.

Okay. Okay. I imagine you was selling off uh, at least for the adults like group packages and stuff like that.

The people we're selling right now, especially the $500 under animals, are new buyers. Like that, they've been on Morph Market six months or less.

And I hear a lot of them talk about, and this is a term that I see a lot of people have, and this is where I'll probably piss somebody off, and I'm not trying to, but it's just such a bad practice, and I hear it talked about behind the scenes so much by people that, you know, people need to know, is putting in your terms that you're not responsible for shipping, for shipper error, you know, shipping errors, uh, mishaps, delays, you know, stuff like that. Until the animal arrives in the buyer's hand, you are responsible. That, that, that's the bottom line.

I mean, you can't, you can't ship. First off, it doesn't matter if you ship them market, Redline Shipping, Ship Your Reptiles, Reptiles Express, Reptiles to You. It doesn't matter. They're still going through FedEx. And at some point in time, somebody's going to screw something up.

You know, I had last week, I had my first damaged package. Uh, FedEx actually called this girl and told her she couldn't pick it up until the end of the day because her package was damaged. And I'm like, that's kind of dumb. You'd think they'd want you to get there quick because it's a snake and the package is damaged. Um, but, you know, anyway, I got, I got Morph Market involved. They, you know, called her hub and they were like, "It's there. She can go get it. It's not even damaged that bad." You know, it was, it was one of those, the call center got a note that it was damaged. So, they called the buyer. You know, it was just a big mess.

But, you know, packages do get lost. You know, packages do probably get ran over by forklifts. I mean, we don't want that to happen, but that's, that's a reality. I'm sure that's happened before. You know, I'm sure it's, I'm sure one's fell off the back of a truck before, you know, things like that.

You know, guys, show, show your customers the compassion enough to be responsible for the animal until it's in their hands, 100%. And if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then spend the two and a half percent for insurance. All the companies offer it, you know, and then you're made whole. You know what I mean?

But, but that, I hear that so much from new buyers that, you know, I haven't put it in my terms yet. I made the decision to about a week ago, you know, that just says we are responsible for shipping. You know what I mean? I want people to understand that that's not the norm. And when Morph Market polls all these new users, the number one reason they haven't bought is because they don't feel comfortable buying. Does your, do your terms in your store make that buyer feel comfortable buying from you, or at least comfortable enough to contact you?

Um, what kind of photos do you have? That's a big one. I mean, you know, we saw leads go through the roof when we went from putting one photo to putting six photos. It's more time-consuming, but, you know, I mean, how hard is it? You got the lightbox out, you got the snake in there, you got your camera set up. How hard is it to take five extra snaps at different angles? You know what I mean? And then, you know, load those on Market too.

Um, giving the buyers the information that they need to make the decision, like load your breeder animals in your not-for-sale inventory so you can show the sire and the dam that made this clutch, and then link all the animals in that clutch to the animal group in the Morph Market listing so they can scroll down through there and actually see the rest of the clutch. You know, that's especially important if you're not going to hardcore guarantee incomplete dominant genetics, you know, because then that at least gives them the ability, and it also gives you the ability to be like, "Well, look, you saw all the clutch mates." You know what I mean? We both agree that we thought it was what it was. You know, nobody can guarantee every single gene in every single ball python they sell. You know, I don't care what they say, you know. Yeah, it gets tough with some combos. But yeah, I mean, you know, and that, that's all part of it.

So, if you're set up for success on your store, you know, you've got abundant information in there. Always put a description. Uh, I know a lot of people harp about weights, you know, but we try to keep our weights updated at least every 30 days. When we had 400 and something hatchlings, it didn't happen. You know, we did the best we could with it. But, uh, you know, I'm always happy to get somebody a fresh weight if they need one. But, you know, keep keeping your ads up to date, keeping the photos up to date. That's something I fell a little bit short on. That after this show, I'm gonna re-shoot a bunch of snakes because, I mean, you know, I'm down to a manageable amount now. And some of them are really high-end stuff. So, I'd rather people see what they look like with some size on them, you know, than what they look like out of the egg at first shed.

Um, but yeah, man. Uh, you know, there's a lot of stuff, but you've got to work all the angles to maximize your sales success. You know, whether that be, you know, auctions, uh, you know, about the new price drop alerts. Have you alert price drop alerts? That's something I've been begging for since John started. I mean, that's something we've used in the car business for over a decade. You know, when we're having a slow month, they'll go in and drop the used cars by 5%. Everyone who signed up for price drop alerts gets an alert that that car is lowered in price. And then I'm busy as hell the next week because leads are just flying in the door. And, you know, I did that last week and, you know, I sold 12 snakes in 18 hours, you know, after I dropped prices 5%. And I hadn't dropped them since most of them since they were listed, to be honest with you. And I knew I needed to. I was just waiting for this to get finished to do that because, you know, but be careful if you're running sales because the way the price drop alerts work is if the animal has to reach a new historic low that's 5% or more below the prior historic low. So, if you run a 20% off sale, you've killed your price drop alerts unless you're ready to drop it by 25%. You know, so that, that, that's something else to think about there, too.

Uh, you know, but, but I mean, they're, they're really effective. And, you know, speaking of effective, something else I thought of, and this is something we talk about a lot in the Discords and stuff, you know, kind of behind the scenes, but, you know, there's a lot of people that just don't have a realistic sense of where the market is on animals right now. Um, you talk about in terms of pricing and where they got their projects priced at. I'm, I'm, I absolutely mean in terms of pricing and, you know, I, and I, it's not up to me to tell you where to how to price your animal, and there's probably people that think I'm low, you know, but, you know, the reality is something's only worth what somebody's willing to pay for it and what you're willing to let it go for. And if you're, if you're not looking at prices every month or two, you know, I mean, there's, you've seen the listings, you know, I'm talking about. I mean, there's people that have had listings up for 14 months that have the same weight, the same price, the same pictures, you know? It's like, I mean, that would, that would drive my OCD nuts, you know, to see that, you know? I mean, I see it when I'm looking at snakes. Yeah. Depending on who it is, uh, maybe the snake ain't even gained that much weight, but that's a whole another episode. Well, yeah, that's true.

You know, and I mean, you know, and the, the, the online and the in-person, the best way to think about that, in my opinion, is you got to find a way to virtually give that online customer the in-person experience, you know, just like you would at a show. Get to know them. Get to know who you're selling. You know, learn a little bit about them. You know, don't hesitate to answer questions when somebody asks you a question, even if it's about a snake they bought from someone else, because their next one will probably be from you. You know, how many people just buy one snake? I mean, there's not many. I mean, once, once you get the bug, man, you got it. And, you know, you're going to go out and buy, you know, I mean, who knows how many. And that, that's where the fostering relationships comes in. And, you know, just trying to be a likable person. That translates directly over to when you're at shows, you know? I mean, I've done shows and had a great show and had the person right next to me have a terrible show, and almost always the difference is attitude. It's not, it's not the animals you have. It's, it's not that. It's the, it's the way you're approaching the people that are coming up to you, and you're making them feel welcome and engaging in conversation with them, making sure they know your name. You know, that's something I don't hear a lot of people do. Everyone. I, I get hoarse at a show just from saying, you know, "Hey guys, my name is Bronn. If you have any questions, just let me know." You know, "Hey, my name's Bronn. If you have any questions, just let me know." You know, and then if they engage in conversations, I take an interest in what they're doing. What kind of projects are you working? Are you just a pet buyer? You know, what kind of, you know, what kind, what kind of animals do you like? If they're a pet buyer, you know, I know, I know what they want to know. They want to know if it's steak and frozen thigh. They want to know if it's got a good temperament. You know what I mean?

And yeah, you know, and that's another good thing to have online is I bet you anybody that does shows has canned responses for those questions, you know, I mean, like, you know, "What's its temperament like?" "Well, it's always been cool with me, but that's really going to depend on the situation it goes into." You know, that sort of thing. Why, why not type out something and save it on your clipboard for those Morph Market inquiries that drive some people so crazy, you know, that ask about temperament or ask what it's eating or anything? Type out those little canned responses, send it in, and then put your name at the bottom of it. You know, so whenever somebody does inquire about that, all you're doing is copy, paste, send. You've answered their questions. You know, that, that, that's a great way to do it. I mean, people say, "I don't have time to go into this." Take time one time, you know, to go into it with yourself. And then just copy and paste that over. Uh, I mean, I have that for the first response inquiries. I have that for auction winners, you know what I mean? That, you know, you know, say, you know, "Hey Mike, congratulations, you're the high bidder. The total, we're shipping is this much. You know, we do require payment within 24 hours. Our payment methods are," and then it lists our Cash App, lists our Venmo if necessary. We can send a request on Morph Market. Next, I'll request your address. I'm telling them what's going to happen. But exactly. Yeah, I do that with the auction winners too.

When you're talking about when you're talking about customer service, which is all part of selling, because I mean, as soon as you made the sale, you're working on the next one. If you're not, you need to try to do that, you know, but, you know, the way you're working on the next one is by giving them outstanding customer service. So, you know, everyone that we sell, I think we've, I, the least I've shipped any week since we started back shipping in January, once the weather was okay, was seven, and the highest was 21. And when someone buys a snake from us, I always verify the shipment on Sunday. So, I send him a message on Sunday. "What's up, John? You, you, you." I send a message on Sunday to verify. Then when I make the labels on Monday, which I do for known shipments, now we may sell more. I need to make a quick box and label, but those are the ones that I already know are going out. Uh, you know, I send them another message, let them know, you know, "Hey, when I drop it off, I've got a little copy and paste, little cute thing. It says 'Snakes on a Plane.' Just dropped off. You can begin tracking now." Tells them about being able to set up FedEx alerts at the FedEx website. Now, does everybody need to know that? No. But I send it to everybody because I want everyone to get the same experience. And then, you know, so once I've dropped it off, when I see they've picked up, and I don't sit there and watch it, but I mean, I'll check in a couple of times when I have a bunch go out. When I see they've picked up, if they haven't messaged me, I send them a message. "Hey, it's Brian. Just checking in. Saw you picked up. No rush. You may not even be home yet. I always just like to check in and make sure all is well. Thank you, Brian." You know, something like that.

And then, you know, in review after review, you hear about communication, communication, communication. That's key. You can't give one-word answers. I mean, you gotta, you gotta present yourself in that kind of light. So, again, to reach maximum sales effectiveness. That makes sense.

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And I Reptiles, big shout out to the sponsors. Big, big shout out to the sponsors. Actually out showing some support. Uh, yeah, man. So, let's, let's jump back in it, man. Do you see people like doing specific things like in terms of sales tactics to entice somebody in, like maybe like a dishonest way or something? Do you see, um, any of that and what are your thoughts?

That's, I mean, you, you definitely see that. I mean, you know, it's just like I say, a lot of my templates that I have typed out that I use. You know, you will find somebody to tell you the answer you want to hear if you ask enough people. You know, it's just, it's just like the temperament question. You know, one of the phrases I put in that response is, you know, "You know, most people, you know, most people would tell you, you know, yeah, it's puppy dog tame." You know, a lot of people will tell you what you want to hear. You know, I'm going to tell you the truth. You know, I'm going to tell you that the snake's acting fine here in a dark tub that measures 9 and a half inches wide by three and a half inches tall by 21 inches deep. When you put it in a 20 long aquarium with a half log hide, can I guarantee it's not going to get stressed out? I can't. You know? So, I mean, I can't offer a guarantee on temperament. Uh, you know, but yeah, I mean, you see that, you see the fake hats, you see the, you know, all, all kind of craziness out there, man. But I mean, it would be the same in the industry, you know. I, I, I do wish the industry would police itself a little better, you know, because I hear these things behind closed doors, but I'm, I'm just as guilty because I don't want to be the one to say somebody else got screwed. They ought to be the one saying, "Hey, I got screwed." You know, that's, that's what I mean.

I want to huge shout out to Brett and John, you know, for being open about what happened to them because, you know, I, I, I don't know the guy. I mean, I, I, I don't know him well or anything like that, but I do know that that to me is a pretty clear-cut shitty way to do something, you know. And Brett and John have been, Brett and John have been good friends of mine since the early 2020s, you know. They're, they're great people. They're part of our core hangout crew at shows, you know, that kind of stuff. They've bought an insane amount of snakes from us. Um, you know, they're just, they're just really, really good people. And to see, to see that happen to good people, you know, it's just kind of messed up. So, yeah, it sucks.

Yeah, it, it definitely does. And, you know, and, and that's when that sort of thing happens. And, you know, you think it only happens with, you know, the high dollar ones are the ones you hear about. You know, you don't hear about the, the basic Morph Market member with three listings that screw somebody on a $200 snake that, you know, they just get kicked off Morph Market and the buyer guarantee maybe kicks in, you know, or whatever. You're not going to hear about that. You're going to hear about the $7,500, you know, screw in somebody took, but you're not, you're not going to hear about the $200 screw in somebody took. And I, I do wish we'd police ourselves a little bit better. I mean, that's not the first time somebody's done that. It's not going to be the last. And, you know, and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to get the word out and make it abundantly clear to people that we are not going anywhere. You know what I mean? Because I do have a lot of high-end stuff with hats that I mean, I want people to trust, you know? I mean, and, I mean, honestly, if they don't at this point, they can buy from somebody else because I mean, I assure you, if I put something on there, it's on there. You know, I can't guarantee every codominant on a complex animal, but I can guarantee those recessives are there. You know, whether, and that's always disclosed whether it's a genetic tested pet or a guaranteed visual to visual or visual.

Yeah, I've noticed that in your ads. I believe transparency is key. And that's where that's where social media ties in because, you know, if you, if you chronicle what you're doing on social media, and then that animal shows up on Morph Market, and those two parents are showing at the bottom as the sire and dam, and you've got a clutch of nine, 10, 11 people or not, not people, snakes, I don't sell people, I promise, but, you know, nine, 10, 11 snakes at the bottom, you know, that they can go through and see the differences between the genetic morphs and stuff like that. I mean, you know, that, that, that to me is being as transparent really as you can possibly be. Um, and I think it makes people feel good about things, you know. I mean, you know, being, being upfront with them and being honest with them, you know.

I mean, it's like, you know, that's one of the things with the hognose I get a lot is the temperament question, you know, and hognose don't bite as a defense mechanism. I mean, they just don't, like, that's not one of the ways they defend themselves. I mean, they'll play dead. They'll mouth, you know what I mean? They'll huff and hit you with their nose and false strike, but I mean, they're never going to bite you unless you smell like something that smells like food, you know? And in the wild, they would be eating tadpoles, fish, frogs, salamanders, maybe a small rodent, but it would be rare, you know? And we're training them to eat rodents, but a lot of times we have to use scenting techniques and, you know, to get them started in the first place. And some of the common sense people use, common sense man, scents people use. I, I got tongue-tied there because I'm like, common sense, you know, that has two meanings. But some of the most common scenting items people use are salmon, tuna, sardines, but people also use bone broth. Uh, you know, I've heard of people using, uh, you know, different types of fish, salmon. Uh, there's people that make, there's a guy, damn, I can't remember his name, but Repsons in Texas, Repsons TX is the name of his company. He's making these scent strips that are actually dried and you put them in the freezer and you just cut a little piece off and hydrate it. You can scent like 20 feeders with it. I can't wait to try those. So that should, that should be good. But I mean, we're teaching them to do that, which also means that like, if you just ate a cheeseburger, there's a good chance if you didn't wash your hands really good, that that hognose thinks that smells like food, you know, and then they're going to chow down on your finger and you're going to have to pop them off. Um, you know, that, that sort of thing. So, you know, I try to go out of my way to explain, you know, probably in greater detail than a lot of people want to hear, but I, I feel more comfortable with myself if I'm, you know, if I'm that transparent about everything.

Gotcha. Gotcha. So, uh, what are some other things that you think would help people become better sellers, uh, based on a lot of the stuff that you've seen around the industry and whatnot?

Oh, man. Just, you know, a positive mental attitude is so much, you know, I mean, go into every interaction with a customer as a positive, not a negative, you know? I mean, it's, you know, get, get the word "tire kicker" out of your vocabulary, you know? Get, get rid of that completely, you know? I mean, like I said, I can't count the number of people who have sent 10 messages on multiple snakes before they decided to make a purchasing experience, you know. Um, it's, you know, you've got to understand, you can tell a lot of people that do this don't have any sort of formal sales training. And I don't mean that as an insult. I mean, a lot of people don't have formal sales training, not unless you've been in a sales profession. But that there's some, you know, there's some just really basic things you can use. You know, just be a really, be like at shows, be nice. A smile goes a long way. You know, I mean, if you can smile, get your customer laughing. If you're goofy, be goofy, you know? I love being goofy at shows and making people laugh, you know? Telling people I won't trade for their baby, you know? I mean, stuff like that. That always cracks. Somebody walks by with a little baby. We don't take trade-ins, you know? I mean, they crack up. I mean, you know, but they may or may not buy a snake. But a lot of it, I mean, a lot of people I don't think understand how much people that are starting out look up to the people that have been doing this a while. And a lot of the people who have been doing this a while grow callous over time. It's really easy for that to happen. And, you know, I think that's kind of what happened with John and Brett. You know, I mean, it was somebody who'd done this a long time. Now he's getting out of it and, [ __ ] does he care? You know what I mean? Like, like sue me, you know what I mean? It's going to cost you more to sue me than you would recoup, you know, I mean, that that sort of thing. So, you know, and that's why that's why it's so hard to start out as a new person. And that's why it's so important to garner reviews, you know? I mean, you know, Morph only counts one review per user. Like, you don't get multiple reviews. Like, if I sold you a snake now, one next month, and one the next month, and you wrote three reviews, it would only be a count of one, you know? And the number that's on your store. But I mean, we got 422 five-star reviews. I didn't, I mean, I didn't do, people didn't do that without being asked to do it, you know? I mean, don't be scared, people, to send a review.

So, you know, and this is another, give him a review back, too. Oh, absolutely. Gabe, yeah, that is Gabe. Um, yeah, his, uh, yeah, Gabe at Reps in Texas has the scent strip. So, if anybody's breeding anything they need to scent with, um, I've heard really good things about them. Jeff Gailwood at JMG is using them, and he usually has them at shows, too. So, I grabbed a couple at Southeast Reptile Expo. I don't have any babies yet, but I'm sure there will be some that'll need some funky scent on a mouse before they recognize it as food. Big shout out to Jamie for dropping the promo in the chat.

Oh, absolutely, man. And talking about promo, I'm gonna bounce off this. You have by far the best sponsor videos of any podcast I've seen. Like that. I appreciate that, man. I appreciate that. That is those are some strong promo videos, dude. But, but, you know, so like I said, just be nice. I'm, I'm rambling all over the place, but be, you know, be a nice person. You know, if you can't be nice, fake it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, just try your best. If you're in an in-person interaction at a show, don't be sitting down on your phone. Like, I know people have said that a million times, right? But I mean, I can't imagine at Southeast Reptile Expo anybody having a bad show, but there was a couple that did that I heard talking about it, but every time I looked at their booth, they were sitting. They weren't standing. I don't even, I'm old. I'm fat. I don't, you know, I mean, my feet hurt, my back hurts. I don't even want a chair at a show. I don't sit down at a show, you know? I might sit down for two seconds to choke down some food if it's something messy from the concession stand or something like that. But I mean, other than that, I'm on my feet, you know, because I, I want people to walk up and be like, "Hey, you know, I mean, here's someone who's excited to talk to me about snakes," you know, and that's, you know, that that excitement is contagious. So, and you can show that excitement in your online interactions, too.

But, you know, one of the things that I do, and I recommend everyone do with Morph Market. I see so many people not do it. You know, it's shocking, but, you know, if you care about reviews, never mark the snake sold when it's paid for. Mark the snake sold when they get it. Exactly. You know, mark it on hold. Let them know you're marking it on hold. You know, actually, now you can just do it for messenger and it'll, it'll, you know, it'll take care of that. Just say, you know, "Animal marked on hold" right there in the chat. But, uh, you know, mark it on hold. And then when they get it and you do that check-in with them, like I said, "Hey, saw you picked up. You may not even be home yet. No rush. Just wanted to check in. Make sure all is well. Thank you again, Brian." You know, then when they message back and they say, "Hey, just got home. Everything looks great and everything." "Okay, awesome. I'm going to mark it sold now. That'll send you a review request if you're so inclined. We sure appreciate them. If you ever need anything at all, let me know. Thanks again, Brian." You know, notice the common theme is I, I put, and I get made fun of for this, but I think it matters. I put my sign, I sign every single message I send pretty much. You know, if I, when I, I review, I review back 100% of the buyers that review me. You know, I, I don't, I probably should let them know that, you know, I review everybody back, you know, that would make them more likely to leave a review. But just mentioning it when they're at the height of their enthusiasm and they just got that new animal in their hands and they just put it into the tub or the tank or whatever they're keeping it in, and, you know, that's when you're going to get the best review, you know.

Yeah, that's what I do too. Like, uh, whenever they pick it up and I, they reach out to me and say, "Hey, I picked it up. Everything's good to go." Um, I thank them for letting me know, uh, tell them that I'm happy that they enjoy the snake, and I say, "Hey, I'm about to mark it sold to you. Uh, when you get a chance, if you don't mind, please leave me a review, and I'll be sure to do the same." And I get probably like 90% of the people to leave a review. And I think that's good because I don't, I feel like if I didn't ask, I would miss a lot of opportunities to get reviews. I mean, dude, you don't get what you don't ask for, you know? I mean, and that, that goes for pricing things. I mean, you know, I, right now the market's funny, right? So, you know, I mean, you, it's going through a little bit of an evolution, it seems like, you know, to where what looks good is selling much better than what's most powerful. You know what I mean? Like that, that, see, you know, where, where two, three years ago we were in a completely different space, right? And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. No, I don't think so. I think so, too, because I mean, or I don't think it is either. I mean, you know, I, I, I've totally changed my stance on something. And I remember doing John Fley's podcast at September '21 Arlington. He, he was just, he was cast. It wasn't like his podcast. He was just doing a thing from the show and I did five or six minutes. But, you know, he brought up breeding what you like. And, you know, at that point in time, I was like, "Oh man, I mean, you know what? If you only like bumblebees, you know what I mean? Like you're not." Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying, like, you're not going to do great if you just breed bumblebees, you know? But, uh, you know, but, but, you know, over the last five years since then, you know, working with what you like means a lot, especially when the market changes to where something that you're passionate about that you really like is going to be much easier for you to sell than something that's super powerful to somebody who doesn't really care about breeding or not. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, and then when you start getting into the super powerful things, and this is a good, good comparison here, you know, and, and it might have actually changed my trajectory if I would have kept up with this the entire time. I don't know. Uh, so hindsight's always 2020, but it's hard to go back, you know, and then really think about what if I'd have done this. But, you know, it's like, you know, I mean, I've got visual double heads that are nice animals that are males that I could probably get more market value out of a banana calico than I can out of those visual double heads as males, you know? I mean, that's because I can take that to a show and somebody's going to be like, "Oh my god, that's beautiful. That, that's the pet that I want." Where they come up, where they come up and they see a clown double head hypo DG, and it's just a brown reduced ball python to them. You know what I mean? The hats mean nothing because they mean nothing to a pet owner. You know what I mean? It's just, it's just a clown. You know what I mean? But that banana calico is beautiful, you know? So, I, I, I don't know, you know, and I'm, I'm kind of trying to with the hognose, because they've got a lot of genetic diversity, too. I'm trying to stick with what's kind of turns my crank as opposed to, you know, the most expensive projects out there. Like, you know, one of the ways I invest in ball pythons and financially it was really good to do it this way, but I mean, if I was shopping for a ball python, I mean, I went in and I sorted from price high to low and I started at the top, you know, so I could decide what I wanted to work with because to me that was going to be the best ROI I had because I mean, honestly, in ball pythons, I kind of like them all. There's not, there's not anything I can say I don't like, you know what I mean? And, you know, there's, there's some I prefer over others, but I mean, you know, there's people that dog this gene and that gene. I mean, hell, they're all cool. I mean, I like butter. I like, you know, I mean, I like clowns. The sunsets can be really cool in some combos. They can look like a turd in others. You know what I mean? I, I do, I do think monsoons kind of all look the same, you know, even in the visual recessive combos I've seen. But it's a cool, it's a cool ass. You know, it's a cool just the same. You know, it's like it's like pinstripe on steroids. Now, I'm not [ __ ] on anybody's project. I'm just talking about my personal preferences. I've always, I was always a clown nut. Like I've always been crazy about clowns. And, you know, and if I would have just stuck with making clowns, I don't know, maybe I'd still have a small collection of ball pythons. But, you know, the, the time aspect would still be there. It's just like with the, you know, when I talk about the time aspect of that, it's like I'm going to have all my eggs laid in about a 10 to 12 week window and I'm done for the year. Now, you know, two to three and a half, four months after that, all the babies are hatched. Now, I'm just in establishing baby mode. Once those babies are established, it's just back to maintenance. With ball pythons, I went back 48 months and there was only four months out of the last 48 months I didn't pull a clutch. Oh, that, that, that was last October going back starting in October backwards. And 48 months, there only been four months I had pulled a clutch. And so it's, it's this constant evolution of establishing, pairing, breeding, pulling, incubating, establishing, pairing, breeding, pulling, incubating that it reached a point last year that I really couldn't find a way to cut back and still make it something that I wanted to move forward with, you know, and, you know, when I, I mean, I fell in love with these hognose, man. You know, I mean, I really did. And it's not even about the money. I know a lot of people say that, you know what I mean? And I'm sure we'll make a little money doing it, but, you know, it's, I'm not going to be making five and six and 10 and $12,000 hognose snakes, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not even, I'm not even trying to, you know, I mean, I'd like to, you know, I want to stay in the, you know, under three for sure, but a lot of stuff in that $300 to $800 range where they're, you know, mid to high range pet level animals, that's, you know, I, I think that's where, you know, they do have a slight advantage, they have a space advantage, they have a time advantage. You know, there's a lot of things that I can say advantage hognose over ball python for what I like. Doesn't mean, you know, that's right for somebody else because I mean, the ball python market is still very, very, very healthy. You know, I can assure you.

Oh, and there was something else. I saw it in my notes. I didn't bring it up earlier. If you use Square and you don't have Morph Pay set up, you are losing money where people can check out on Morph Market. You know, um, I, I looked today, 16 of my last 20 sales on Morph Market were Morph Pay orders where people went in and then these were all $500 and under animals. The $5,500 one don't count, but the f they were all 500 under animals and 16 of my last 20 were people who went on Morph Market, hit buy now and checked out. Oh, and they were done. Now, that's that's an unprecedented tear. You know, do your buy now folks ever reach out to you first, or they just go boom? Most of the time, no. Uh, you know, if, if, if they do, it's where I'm telling them and there may have been a couple of those in there, uh, you know, where somebody reached out to me and asked a question or two and they wanted to use a card because if they use a card, I just steer them to the buy now because it's easier for them and it's easier for me because, you know, now I've got all their shipping information, everything right there in that one window and I can, you know, hit click and click and now the label's made and they get tracking and every, you know, I mean, it just, it just works. Really seamless process. But, uh, but no, a lot of them, I'd say the vast majority of them are, I just, I mean, I woke up this morning to an order. Somebody at 2:15 a.m. decided they needed a male pastel head puzzle, you know, for a $100 ship. You know what I mean? And, uh, you know, so, so I always, before I accept it, and this is a, a lot of people don't, don't understand how it works too. Um, you know, a lot of people think if somebody checks out, it's just like Amazon. Now, all you got to do is ship the snake to them. Now, you've got 48 hours to accept the order. Um, so I always verify the address they put in was a hub. Um, and then I always send a message thanking them for their order and scheduling shipping and all that stuff. And until they've answered me back, I don't accept their payment because I want to make sure, especially if they didn't put in a hub, because I want to make sure they understand that that is the only way I ship. You know, barring an extraordinary circumstance. I've got a disabled veteran in Florida that I've shipped a few to his house. I've got, you know, I've, I've got a few people that I ship to homes, but I mean, it's, it's very few and far between. I think I've done one this calendar year out of probably 120 boxes, you know, something like that. There's got to be some extenuating circumstances for me not 154 miles to the closest home, you know what I mean? And, and temps were perfect. And his wife works from home, so it was like, you know, I mean, it was just a win-win. He was, he was like, "I'll assume my responsibility." I'm like, "No, you don't have to do that." I said, "But the fact that you're willing to do that lets me know that you're on top of it, right? You know, I'm okay with it. I'm not." And FedEx is closing a lot of hubs right now. And, you know, you know, it's, there's some areas it's going to be getting tough to, you know, get somebody to a hub. So, I mean, I remember when I first started shipping and '17, '18, something like that. I mean, it was like, I mean, shipping to the home was just what you did. You, I mean, they're like, like, I mean, hub, hell, I had, I think I had started buying some stuff when some, I think Matt Shifflin at American Made Exotics told me, he's like, "Man, it's a lot safer to hold it at the hub." I'm like, "Well, how does that work?" You know, and just, just like I did with my guy, you know, explaining to him how it works. And he said, well, he said, you know, most of the exposure to the elements is between the hub and your house in a, you know, non-climate-controlled vehicle, you know, where it's extremely limited going hub to hub. I can ship a lot colder hub to hub. And then I started recommending it. And then with COVID, it just became a requirement, you know. I mean, but like I said, barring an extraordinary circumstance, I'm not, you know, I'm still human. I'm still going to help somebody out if they need help, but, uh, you know, it can't be the hub's 16 miles away and I don't feel like driving there, you know? Well, then you don't really want this animal, right? You know, how close is your vet? You know, I mean, I've actually asked that question before. How close is your vet? Well, they're 18 miles away. Well, what if your animal gets sick? Are you going to take it to the vet or is that too far for you to drive? You know, I mean, if you won't drive 16 miles to pick it up. Uh, yeah, that's, that's a pet peeve of mine.

Uh, now I will say this, uh, there is a place for declining an inquiry or blocking a person on Morph Market for sure. You know, I mean, I'm not saying never ever ever do that. Uh, one of my pet peeves, and everybody has them, is somebody that just sends a number. Like, and it's usually they do it on a bunch of different animals at once. I don't know if you ever had this happen or not. I've had it happen. As far as like an offer, like no other words. I, I guess it's an offer. I mean, it doesn't even have a dollar sign. It's just like, so, so they're looking at a $1,200 animal and the message comes in and all it says is 400, right? And that's it. Yeah. You know, and this was this was back when, uh, they don't track the response times anymore the way they used to, but this was back when it said, "This person usually responds." And response times matter in e-commerce, big time, you know? So, but now it's not really shown or anything. I don't, I don't think they brought that back, but, uh, I mean, it wouldn't be a problem for me because I live on my damn computer and phone anyway. But, uh, but the, uh, but yeah, I mean, you know, that just, I don't know, that that irks me, you know? I mean, I don't mind a low offer, you know? I mean, I can, I can substantiate any price I've got on there. If, if that, if instead of saying 400, that said, you know, "Hey man, I want to make you an offer. I really didn't want to insult you, but $400 is my budget on this animal. Would you consider doing that?" I'd explain to him, "No, dude. You know, there's no way I can do 400, but, you know, maybe I can do 900. You could do 400 down. I could."

give you 45 days to come or I could give you 60 days to come up with the rest." You know, I mean, yeah, like that's starting a conversation. You know what I mean?

But when they just put a number in there that says 400, then they go to the next one and put one in that says 300, then you got 12 messages from the same I I loosely call them a buyer. But I mean, they're just looking for somebody that is desperate and I call it fishing. You know, they're just out there fishing. They're casting as many lines as they can in the water and they're going to get a bite somewhere. You know, if you make enough dumb offers, you're gonna find somebody that needs gas money for the week or, you know, I mean, something like that that's gonna do it.

And I'll be I've blocked a couple people too like you know people that are just I don't I I don't tolerate rude you know so if if somebody makes an offer and I make a counter offer and they're rude about it I'll just block them I don't need that negativity you know what I mean um have you had any customers that have been rude for other reasons? Yeah, not not really um I've had a couple of other people that identified themselves as breeders um you know, be rude about, you know, saying I'm underpriced on something, you know, and I always explain to them, well, I'll give you 30% off of it. Why don't you buy it? And the answer is always no. I'm like, well, if I'm priced too low and I'm giving you 30% off that too low price and you're still saying no, you just shot holes all in your bucket of water. You know, why don't you want it for that? But no, you know, overall I've had a pretty good experience with people in this industry. I mean, I've had my run-ins here and there just like other people do. And when you I feel like we've been moderately successful and you know the you know, and that's going to bring out a hater here or there, you know what I mean? Like that that just instantly happens, you know?

Oh, yeah. When I first started out, you know, and I did, you know, I did spend a lot of money, you know, when I first started out because the I went all in. This was a, you know, this was a full-blown business venture for me doing something that I love. Those the two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can you can still give great care, take care of animals, you know, and make money doing it, you know, and so when I came in, I I, you know, I got my feet wet first just to make sure. And then after I did that, I went pretty hard, you know, we spent, you know, mid-six figures, you know, on on animals and stuff like that. You know, it took about two years to break even and then, you know, we started turning a little bit of a profit after that. But, you know, it was, you know, early on all the old heads. I got a lot of the buying stuff. Oh, he just bought in. He didn't really do anything. You know, they they want you to buy a clown and a normal and make your own heads and then make your own single eating clowns and then put the Kodoms in them where I'm like, you know, are you letting go any of those hypo clown pods over there? You know, there's only been four made. I'm like, well, I know. I want one of them. You know, and I didn't always get those things, but you know, it was Yeah, I feel like we made some good decisions, we made some bad decisions, you know, um I don't know what the decision of the direction that we're going now is going to be, but I can tell you what, I'm happier than I've been at any time in recent memory. Uh and that's what matters. That's what matters for sure.

I'm I'm not I'm not pressed for time to eat dinner and then come up and finish everything else that I needed to do. I'm not behind on anything. All the animals are tiptop shape, clean. I'm packed for the show. You know, I'm packed for the show. Animals packed for the show. The whole nine yards and still got on here on time after eating dinner. I made I made a roast today. I did two loads of dishes today. You know, my wife's loving this extra spare time because I can't stand dirty dishes and sink and and I don't think she's done dishes in like a couple of months now. You know what I mean? I'm just It's just something I do while I'm making myself breakfast, you know? But no, I'm I'm I'm enjoying it, man. And you know, like I said, I'm not going anywhere. And it's not a dig on ball pythons. I don't mean it that way at all. It's just the the time consuming nature of them. Uh the number that I had to keep to do the type of numbers of offspring that I needed to do also played a big factor into it because I mean you know I paired 103 females last year and only got 43 clutches you know and they'll say oh only 43 clutches if I paired I mean I mean every every hog noose I paired gave me a clutch most of them are going to give me two you know what I mean like when you broomate so I mean I can take a single 5040 like this one sitting right behind me here. Put 40 females in it and produce a thousand babies in a year if I don't ever want to do that. Now, let's be clear. I'm not that's not that's not where we're headed. But I'm just saying like I could with just 40 adult females and, you know, 25 or 30 adult males, you know, and it's, you know, mice are cheap. I don't have to breed rodents. You know what I mean? Like I can feed I can feed an adult hog noose for a month for what I could feed a juvenile ball python for uh one meal. You know what I mean? Like it's you know and I agree with Brandon too like the rodents is the uh biggest factor.

Oh, that that's a huge factor. That's huge. And I mean think think about just you know at at roughly $2 a puff which is about what you're looking at. You know, I mean, you might could find a deal if you had a homie somewhere breeding rudders or whatever, but if you're buying from a commercial distributor, even in volume, you might could get down to $1.50, you know, uh, you know, do that math on 400 and something ball pythons eating every week, you know, 400 something past eating every week. It doesn't take long for that to creep up to $3,500, $4,000 a month in a food bill where I'm paying less than 10% of that to feed an entire collection of rodents. You know what I mean? That that that I can go pull feeders anytime I need them. So, I mean, the convenience factor was there, but man, it just it it kind of became a grind over the last year instead of something I truly enjoyed doing when it came to the rodents. And when you bring your own rodents, you save money, but you're putting a lot of time and work into it. And I feel like And time is money, too. Exactly. Exactly. And I feel like with rodents, like it's got the most kind of like wild cards in it in terms of stuff that can that goes wrong. Uh where there's like a line getting clogged up or is uh a tub getting flooded out, just stuff like that that just happens. Like despite your best efforts to prevent a lot of that stuff, at the end of the day, from what I've seen so far, man, some [ __ ] gonna happen uh with the rodents. And so I've been pretty I I've never had a chew out. Uh so I haven't had that issue. I've never had a line chewed. The only flood outs I've had was when I first got my ARS 5032 and I didn't know those little shits could push the pin up through the top and then it would come back rested open. But I had a couple happened then. Then I got some needlense and squeezed it in there, you know, and all that stuff. Um, and and got that going. Uh, but no, I haven't had any serious incidents. I've had a few clog nozzles, you know what I mean? That went a few days too long and had some skinny, thirsty rodents in there that I had to I put like four water bottles on there to get them rehydrated and everything, but I've never killed a tub. But, I mean, my rodent room's right outside my back door, you know? I mean, I I can like it I can smell if something's off, you know? I mean, I don't even have to open the door like to know something something's not right out there, you know? And but I've got it down now. I've gotten rid of all the SFS. I've got one little colony because I've got some samboas and a couple dumb black lives. So, I just kept one little colony going just to keep my line intact. I'm just going to grow out 12, 15 females, five or six males, and then just when that colony goes down, start a new one just to keep a few little stuff going. But, um, yeah, I done had uh rodents get out uh before. Um, and so like they chewed lines and so like that was a big pain until we caught all of them. Uh, what else have I had? Uh, I've had it to where like a tub got flooded because of like a nozzle. And so I went through and replaced pretty much all those nozzles that came with the original uh wooden rack that we got cuz it they just seem like low quality nozzles uh versus the ones that uh I went out and got. And so I have less of that way less of that issue now. But you still got to like check and it's like little things you got to check and make sure like uh as you're going through it's just a lot of it's a lot of attention to detail. Otherwise, if you don't pay that attention to detail, then stuff can go wrong. And paying attention to detail like that, like that takes a lot of time over time, it adds up. And so, if bandwidth is something that you're struggling with, then that is gonna further take away from that bandwidth. So, the rodents, it's a lot of work.

Chris, I agree with that. Um, I can't stand the mouse smell either. Oh, no. I got all ASF, bro. I've bred them before, you know, and I had I had nothing but ASFs. Now I've just got rats because the only thing I'm needing I need rats for my bullsnakes. This one's been cruising around. She's been trying to come out. This girl right here, she's pretty chill. A little chill. I got one that's crazy. But uh but yeah, man. It's, you know, I've just got the hatchling ball python, so I'm just breeding for pups, you know, right now. And then I'll wean I'll wean 10 or 12 a week, let them get up to small to medium, and then freeze them. Just so once I do cut it back, I know I've got a good stock to start with anyway for my bullsnakes. Um, but you know, they eat they eat a big large medium every two weeks. So, it's not like they're going to break the bank, you know, either way. I've only got what I got I got five got six bulls and three gophers. The gophers will be on rats before long. Uh, my my San Diego gophers, that's a smaller strain. They're more coastal. um that they'll stay on mice forever like that. They don't ever have to be on rats. But yeah, I tell you a tip, man, with that watering is, you know, I mean, well, number one, I've never had a problem with Reptile Basics nozzles. That's that's all I've ever used. And that's what we ended up getting. Do you have a Do you have a drain valve at the end of your line? Uh, no. That That's something I would Do you have a filter coming out of your reservoir? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So having that filter coming out of the reservoir, I usually change those about once every two months just automatically whether they're clogged up or not, just as a preventative. I've got a timer that goes off on my phone and I just leave it up till I get time to do it. It doesn't take long to just snip it out and put a new one in. And having that cleanout valve at the bottom, it's not really a cleanout valve, it's a drain valve. But every week whenever the water buckets get filled, I run enough water out of it to fill about a 32 ounce cup. Like I feel like it's backwashing everything out of the lines. and you'll get like big balls of gunk, you know, and stuff that'll come out. But and then I generally have replaced the water lines about once a year, you know, just pull them out myself and just reran them. It's it's once I did it once, I was like, man, that was so much easier than like flushing and cleaning and getting all the smell out of it and that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Now, I've had a had a had a pretty good run with rodents. I just am ready to run away from them.

But no, and I mean Beast said something, you know, ball pythons are too good to me. That's exactly the way I felt several years ago. But I mean, without getting too much into personal business, when you when you reach a level of financial security that is not going anywhere, you know what I mean? Like, you know, it's there. It lets you really kind of see where your priorities are. And you know, Bethanne and I went to St. Thomas for a long weekend, Thursday to Sunday. Uh, no, I think we left Monday, Thursday through Sunday. And, uh, this was back in January. And it was the first time in 14 years we've been somewhere, just the two of us, with no kids, that was not a snake show. You saying 14 years? 14 years. And, you know, we kind of I don't know, man. We're empty nesters. I think that kind of affected me, too, because when my son lived here before he went to college, you know, granted, he's his apartment's five miles from here, but we only see him once a week. He does do a few little things for me. He works for me once a week to at least call himself earning his money. But, uh, but, you know, he helps me like here lately he's been doing a lot of like helping me tear down racks and stuff like that. And, okay, I had a mini I had a mini 130 I traded for a hog noose. And I wasn't going to trade it for a hog noose, but then the guy he was too high on the snake and then I was going to pick it up. I'd already bought one from him. I was going to pick it up anyway. Uh it was about an hour away and I said I just thought to bring it up. I was like, hey man, you know, if you need any racks, these are the three I've got available. He's like, oh man, I've really wanted a mini 30. I said, well, maybe we can talk now. So we ended up trading. I had to So we took it on a Saturday. The following Monday. No. Was it Mon? No, it's Wednesday. The following Wednesday I had him come help me tear it down and load it back up to drive an hour to take it to this dude to trade it for this hog nest thing. that and some cash. But it's a nice hard nose note. But uh but yeah, I mean, you know, I get a little bit of help from him, but I think I think the empty nest and it just being the two of us and having all this spare time, but having all this spare time taken up that I don't know, man. I just got to a point where, you know, I still want to do shows. I still want to do the same shows that we've been doing, but I also still want to do other [ __ ] too. Yeah. I want I still I want to take that time off too to go man go deep sea fishing or something, you know? Go to Chris Chris from Sea Surf's been trying to get me to come down for years, go fishing with him, you know what I mean? Um I think I'm gonna make that happen this next year.

Nice. Nice. Cool, bro. Well, we uh we about 90 minutes in, man. This time passed by real quick. Uh it's been a great show, man. I appreciate you uh sharing all that knowledge. Are you uh do you have a Patreon?

I do not have a Patreon. I actually thought about doing a Patreon for this. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Just to answer specific questions and stuff like that, but then I decided I don't want to charge people for that. You know what I mean? Like I I if if I did it, it would be a it would be something that would be free or or a minimal paywall, you know, $5 a month. So, you know, just something like that because, you know, I'm not going to be IDing your snakes. I don't want to do that anymore. You know what I mean? I I will I will for my friends. I'll help people and stuff like that, but I I don't want to, you know, I don't want to have a um you know, I don't want to have a Patreon where people want me to ID their snakes and, you know, what's this worth? What's that worth? You know, what do you see in this one? You know, I just I just don't want to do that. And I don't know that there's enough value in the business end of things because so many people don't consider it a business. You know what I mean? Like that's, you know, it's I don't understand that because to me the definition of a business is, you know, you're producing something to sell in exchange for currency. I mean, that you're a business if you breed one clutch a year and sell half of it. You know what I mean? Like that that's business. But, you know, I understand what they're saying. And and and there's too many people that think that making money, sometimes a lot of money, you know, breeding animals is in some way not virtuous, you know, or something. Yeah. And that's crazy, man. I mean, that's a whole because it comes down that's a whole double clutch episode. Sound like well it comes down well it it comes down to the fact that man that's the American dream right doing what you love and making a living doing it you know what I mean I mean that that could be football that could be baseball that could be professional fishing that could be anything it can also be breeding snakes it can be breeding geckos could be breeding tors you know whatever it is that you want to do breeding dogs you know I mean as long as you do it ethically legally safely clean. Make sure your animals are taken care of. Who cares? I care more about the person with one starving ball python in a 55-gallon tank than I do somebody producing 400 animals a year because I know those 400 animals a year are getting taken care of. You know what I mean? That one ball python, that 55-gallon tank's not, you know, I mean that's, you know, that's just me.

Cool. Well, yeah, man. Again, man, I appreciate you uh coming on tonight. Appreciate everybody in the chat. Big shout out to the replay game, y'all sliding through. Make sure y'all leave a comment on the video. Uh but that's going to be it for tonight. So for see us at Nashville. Oh yeah, definitely go check them out in Nashville. Uh for Clutch Conversations, I'm Mike, the lovely lady behind the scenes is Takar. Thank y'all for coming out. Be blessed. Peace. Heat. Heat. N. [Music] Hey, hey, hey. [Music]

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EP173 – Beyond the Rack: The Sales Skills That Breeders Need

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