IRMA: A Deep Dive for Mining Companies

Hello and welcome everyone. We're just going to take a minute or two as people join our webinar, but thank you for joining us today. So, we'll just give it a minute for people to enter the room. Hello to those joining us and welcome to the Irma overview and introduction for the mining sector. As we do a deep dive today, we're so glad that you are able to join us from wherever you are around the globe.

We are going to get our presentation started just because we do have a full agenda with some great panelists and speakers coming your way to speak about Irma and speak about their experiences with Irma. Uh, so with that, we will get started. My name is Beth Barod. I am a senior advisor to the mining sector with Irma and have been with Irma for the last five years. Um, we'll take a look at our agenda for today. You can go looking at chatting about what Irma is, why we exist, hearing from our purchasing sector, our finance sector, and our mining sector to give you a full perspective, uh, as to why this is important and why this standard has come to be, uh, over the last few years.

A few housekeeping notes as we get started. This call will be recorded so that it will be sent to everyone who has registered for this webinar, as well as used afterwards. There is interpretation available at the bottom of your Zoom screen. There is a little globe and you can select the language that best suits you for, uh, interpretation. And we do have the Q&A function, uh, live and happening so that we can track any questions that are coming in. We will be taking questions at the end of each of our sections. So at the end of our purchasing presentation, we'll take questions for for JJ. At the end of our finance, we'll take questions for Bob. And at the end of our mining section, we will take questions for companies as well. So please feel free to use the Q&A. And for any questions that we are not able to answer live, we will try and do our best to follow up, uh, post webinar to make sure that we are able to answer those for you.

At Irma, we always start with our Anti-Trust compliance statement so that we can avoid any discussions that could be construed as, uh, anti-competitive, uh, as best practice, uh, for any of our webinars. And with that, I am delighted to be able to introduce you to our first speaker, Aquina Malachi, who is Irma's mining sector lead, who is going to take us through a bit of an introduction to what Irma is and why it's so important. So over to you, Aquina.

Thank you so much, Beth. Good day everyone. My name is Aquina Malachi, and I'm based in South Africa. So I am the mining sector lead for Irma, which simply means that I'm the main contact and resource for all mining companies, as well as the mining industry at large. So today, I'll be taking you through an introduction to Irma.

On to the next slide. Um, Irma is basically the answer to a global demand for more socially and environmentally responsible mining. So to unpack this, the system itself works by actually providing an opportunity for industrial scale miners globally to participate and to undergo, undergo an assessment to determine their performance. Now, this can be used for all mined materials that can be gold, copper, um, lithium, and others, with, of course, the exception of energy fuels. These would be your uranium, thermal coal, oil and gas, and others. So the assessment itself actually takes place at the mine site level. This means, folks, that the company itself is actually not going to be assessed. However, companies throughout the world can make an a commitment to actually put all their mines into the system. We actually do encourage that. Um, we also encourage mines at different levels of performance to actually come into this Irma system and demonstrate continuous improvement over time.

So on the next slide, you can see that the Irma standard actually contains 26 chapters, which covers a full range of topics that come with industrial scale mining. Now, these 26 chapters actually span across four different principal areas, namely business integrity, social responsibility, environmental responsibility, and of course, beyond mine planning for positive legacies.

On the next slide, it's so important to really highlight that Irma does not just contain new content. In fact, the Irma standard includes many of the best practice expectations, which really builds on existing systems, existing standards, and requirements that mining companies globally are already being held to. These include your UN Guiding Principles on Business and Human Rights, I ILO, OECD Due Diligence Guidance, and many others that you can see on the screen now. These existing, um, systems and frameworks actually form the basis of many of the requirements that you do find in the Irma standard itself.

On the next slide, this is a beautiful slide that I love because it really just captures and summarizes all the work that we do. So essentially, we currently have 80 mining companies in the Irma system, which overall represents 101 sites across the globe. Now, 59 of those sites are self-assessing, 24 are piloting the draft exploration self-assessment, and 18 of those are in the independent assessment system.

On the next slide is a beautiful illustration of what I've just explained. It's really our global presence in the six continents across 30 different countries, with a reach of more than 50 minerals. So with our outreach strategy for 2024, we actually plan to expand our presence more throughout the world to ensure that more mines commit to participating and, of course, to improving their performance over time through using the engagement with Irma.

Over to you, Rebecca.

Thank you so much, Aquina. So I wanted to come in and speak about something that you'll actually hear, uh, many of our speakers talk about, but these are some of the key pillars in Irma and really what sets it apart. So Aquina talked about sort of that it's applicable to different mines, that it's applicable at the mine site, and I want to talk a little bit about the structure of Irma and what we call the architecture or the governance of the system. And there are three sort of overarching pillars that are so fundamental to Irma in the way that we operate and the reason actually that we see many different stakeholders are engaging with our system, are becoming members, are asking for this, uh, are asking for Irma. And you can see these here.

The first is transparency. The level of transparency that we bring to the audit process by publicly noticing audits in advance, by including stakeholders and community members who live around the mine site in the audits, and then by sharing detailed audit reports at the end of the audit process. This is a level of transparency that is fundamental when it comes to due diligence for buyers and investors, when it comes to having engagement with, uh, civil society. Right? So they can actually, uh, the stakeholders can use the report to be on a level playing field in conversation with mining companies. Um, and then it's also, we've heard from the mining sector, these reports are so key as a guidebook to actually guide improvements, Visa, um, those different 26 chapters that Aquina highlighted.

Another pillar that's fundamental is continuous improvement. And I, I think especially for mining sector colleagues, this is so important because it's not a pass/fail system. Irma scores from 1 to 100, and this allows, in that very detailed audit report, a conversation to think about what are the areas where the mine is excelling, where are the areas for improvement, rather than just saying, you know, everything's good here, good to go, or, you know, you know, a fail sort of, um, and, and not allowing a bigger conversation to happen. So that nuance is really, really important and actually diving into the details of performance.

And the final point that I want to emphasize here is equal governance. And this is really how Irma came to be. It was six different houses that came together to work on a standard, to work on an audit system, to understand mines that are operating responsibly all around the world. And I want to spend a little of time on this equal governance piece because I think it's often either misunderstood or not fully understood. And so the next slide, I just want to take you through what it, what do, what do we mean when we say equal governing authority?

We use now more and more equal governing authority between our houses. Yes, we are a multi-stakeholder system, but really, it's a, it's a system of equal governing authority. It means that each of these six different houses or sectors has a say, everything from what's in the standard to how we conduct audits, to how we, uh, have members. Each, each of them has a vote on that. And what I mean by that is that on any decision that they take together, each of those different sectors must give a yes vote. They have to reach agreement. If any of those houses, the two representatives from those, from one house says no, then the group goes back to rework the decision. So it's a system of co-creation, not consultation, with just with any of these.

And let me talk about why that matters from a civil society standpoint, points, um, which we often hear their, especially from this sector, how much they value equal governance. It's really important because it puts them on equal footing with corporate actors at the table. When civil society is bought into a system and sitting at the system and feels that the system is credible to them, we find that that's of great value. Then to the finance and the purchasing sector, it's really important to those different sectors that civil society has trust in the system. For Irma, it's really important that each of the actors here has an equal vote because it means that they will remain active and engaged, holding us to account, not only for civil society, as I've already spoken about, but actually holding us to account for this sector, for the mining sector. And I just want to emphasize that here you see the six houses, and I want to emphasize that it's all six working together. And it's also, when we think about Irma and the staff, the work that we do is always in equal service to the six houses.

Here, I want to say a final point on this, and then we'll move on. But how does this actually play out? What does it actually look like, this system of consensus and of every house actually saying yes? Sometimes people call this a veto model, and I suppose you could call it that, right? If one sector wanted to veto a decision, they could. But really, we see, we've been using this model for well over a decade, and we certainly don't see that it's veto after veto that's been coming that, that happens. Instead, we really can attest to how powerful it is in practice. So what happens is because the, everyone here knows, right? And when I say everyone here, of course, you're looking at the names of 12 individuals, but really they're, when, when they come to the table, when they meet as a group of 12, they're holding in mind each of the constituencies that they serve. And so the mining sector really is there not just on behalf of the organization and they're, it goes far beyond the organization that they're there to serve. It goes, it really is in service to the sector. So each of these houses, each of these, when these 12 people come together and they think about the different decisions, they know that they have this model of getting to agreement, and that when a vote passes, everyone must say yes.

So just to give you an example of how this has played out in the past, when we were finalizing the standard back in 2018, it became clear that there were differing views, especially on water and waste. And those were the two final chapters that we really needed to get over the line. So rather than bringing the standard to say to vote and say, can we release this as it is? The group said, we know we've got these two chapters, we know they need to be worked on. So let's actually step back and let's think how we come to resolution around them. So what happened is that the NGO and the Civil Society appointed experts, the mining sector appointed experts, and those experts who really understood the technical aspects of how waste and water are managed in a mining context, came together, sat around the table, and crafted a, a shared solution, which is what you see in the standard today. So how that played out in the equal governance model is they then took back that solution to the, these representatives on the board, who, when it came time to vote, could give a clear and, and seem yes, were ready to release the standard, given the work that had been done before.

So I just want to emphasize again, we often hear about equal governance being asked for and called for by Civil Society, but it's equally important from the mining sector's perspective for you to know you have an equal voice at the table, and we're here in equal service to the sector. And then I think the final thing, um, that I want to share, you know, we talk about sort of frequently asked questions that we get, and I think we're going into some of those, but one that I've answered in advance of you seeing what that list is, is, um, that mining very much was engaged, consulted, the mining sector was very much engaged, consulted, and provided input in both the drafting and during the comment period, uh, for the crafting of the standard. So I wanted to give that example to demonstrate how that was done, how equal governance works, um, and certainly provide that basis for the next, um, speakers.

Thank you, thank you, Rebecca. As we go to the next section, we wanted to share just a brief overview of how you can engage with Irma right away. And so the next slide shows the easiest way to step in with Irma is to use the self-assessment tool or our mine measure tool, uh, before going into any sort of public audit. And so on the next slide, we show a quick overview of what the mine measure tool is. This tool is free for companies to use for your first site. You can use it to get to know the Irma standard more, uh, without having an association or public acknowledgement to Irma if you don't want to. We also welcome that, uh, for any mine that wants to come in and start using the self-assessment tool. And this gives you a great understanding of what the standard actually holds and what the expectations are for mining companies. So the next slide just shows another quick example of how you can see your own score as you go through the mine measure tool and see how you are ranking against the Irma standard. And our final slide before going into our first, uh, panelist is looking at the FAQs. So these are questions that Irma gets asked all the time from different houses and different sectors, and we will be addressing these six questions through our speakers as they give their experiences with Irma. And so with that, I am very pleased to be able to welcome, uh, to the table our first guest speaker, JJ Messner Dour from our purchasing sector. And please remember that you can be asking questions during his presentation that he will answer, uh, once he is done. So JJ, over to you.

JJ, I think you may be on mute. Okay, okay. Let's try that. Are we back in business? You're good to go. Oh, okay. It's very fake. All right. Well, um, first of all, thank you. Happy to be here. And, uh, I'll just give you a little bit of introduction as to who I am. Um, so I lead minerals integrity and upstream traceability for Microsoft Devices. And, as, as you would have seen on one of the previous slides, uh, I've also been serving as a, as a board member on, uh, the Irma board representing the downstream purchasers sector for the last few years.

The first question, if we can advance to the next slide, um, the first question, of course, is, you know, why are buyers asking for Irma? And I think first, the downstream purchaser group is quite diverse. We have brands from consumer electronics, consumer goods, automotive, renewable energy, jewelry, and so on. And though we all represent different sectors, what unites the group in Irma is first of all, our reliance on critical minerals to make sure that, sorry, to, to make our products do what they do. And secondly, our interest in responsibly and sustainably sourcing those critical minerals. For many similar internal brand assurance, insurance programs, it is impossible, near impossible, or not really advisable for individual brands to go directly audit every single entity in their, uh, indirect supply chain universe. So many brands rely on standards and certifications that provide us the assurance that the materials entering our products meet our own standards and allow us to meet our own customer, shareholder, or stakeholder expectations and regulatory, uh, and certification requirements.

So in choosing what certification scheme to rely on for mined minerals, there are certain criteria that downstream purchasers look at. And here I should emphasize that I'm speaking both from the perspective of Microsoft, but also on behalf of the, uh, the broader group of brands who have aligned on the areas that, that I'm about to address. And if we can just advance to the next slide.

So one is, is it practical and realistic? And Irma's scoring is based on continuous improvement rather than pass/fail, which I think, uh, you from a purchaser's perspective, uh, is, is, you know, critical to making for a practical framework. It's important for two reasons because it first of all recognizes that perfection is hard to come by, and equally that certification should be a journey rather than a snapshot in time. Secondly, is it comprehensive? Uh, and Irma really does cover all mined minerals. Uh, it, it covers everything that is critical for us at Microsoft, and it thereby reduces the duplication, uh, and creates efficiencies, uh, that, um, you know, we, we would otherwise, uh, be, be laden with by focusing on multiple different standards for each of those minerals. Now, there are some strong single material standards out there, but speaking as a brand that has 14 high-priority materials in our supply chain, you know, few of us have the resources to spread across a unique standard for each of those priority materials. So having a, a hub, as it were, in the form of Irma is, is very important for the efficiency of our assurance processes.

Third, is it equally governed? And this is where I draw the distinction between engagement or consultation and governance. Now, anyone can talk to a variety of stakeholders or rights holders, but giving NGOs, communities, and labor unions, as well as the mining sector, the downstream purchasing sector, and the finance sector an equal voice alongside one another, as Irma does, is what makes the engagement meaningful.

If we can move to the next slide, please.

And fourth, and I'll group all these, sorry, if we can go back one. Fourth, you know, the question is, is it transparent and inclusive? And the transparency and inclusiveness of Irma audits is critical in, in ensuring that all voices are heard, um, but also understood and recognized and made public. It is particularly here that Irma derives credibility, uh, in being open and representative. And I'll speak to the credibility point in just a moment.

Why? Okay. If we can move to the next slide. Now, this slide shows the list of brands that participate in the Irma Buyers Group, and that list is rapidly growing. Now, some of these brands include, or are in the process of including, Irma as a named standard to which they expect conformance within their upstream supply chain. As one of those brands at Microsoft, with such a stated expectation in our supplier specifications, we are working with our suppliers to embed the expectations of Irma certification throughout the supply chain end-to-end. Irma is, of course, still in a growth phase, so we do not yet have a hard requirement on, on Irma certification in our supply chain, but equally, our emphasis is on continuous improvement, more so than perfection. But I can see that being, uh, I can see that being as our practice reality, uh, in years to come, because as traceability requirements rapidly expand, the imperative for brands to understand their supply chain intimately end-to-end, this new found visibility and transparency that we're all going to be, uh, confronted with, will drive brands to take a closer interest in standards and certifications at all levels, particularly in the far upstream. Equally, our customers and shareholders will take just as keen an interest. And when that day arrives, brands will be driven to accept standards that are credible and acceptable not only to them but to their stakeholders, and we believe that is and will be Irma.

And so when we think about embedding Irma, uh, certifications into our, uh, supplier specifications, speaking as one brand, we see that as really future-proofing our, uh, our assurance programs, really building in, uh, that foundation that will enable, uh, that ability to credibly demonstrate the responsible and sustainable sourcing of our materials as that end-to-end traceability, uh, really does broaden and that visibility, uh, increases to, uh, uh, to that, uh, much more extreme level. So hopefully that gives a bit more context on why Irma is important from the perspective of a downstream purchaser. Happy to answer questions.

That's great, JJ. We'll bring one question, um, and to you, which is from an attendee who's asked, how will the commercial transaction between the buyers group and mining companies work? Microsoft, you, for example, will you only buy aluminum from with the Irma seal, or will you look for an Irma assessed supplier? And yeah, I guess one thing, JJ, that you'll probably speak to, of course, you're speaking on behalf of Microsoft, but the idea of the Irma buyers group and mining companies, I do think it is really important when it comes to sourcing decisions that while the buyer group works together on maybe strategy or understanding, you know, big picture questions when it comes to supply chain, they don't actually make buying decisions together. And that's really, really important to know. Not here that the buying, that the actual purchasing decisions and contracting decisions definitely lie with each of the companies. So even though they meet as a group, they definitely have that decision, each, each of them have that decision. So JJ, this question, uh, yeah, if you can answer the question from Microsoft's perspective.

Yeah, and and thanks to that clarification, uh, Rebecca, because, uh, from a, from a buyers group perspective, uh, even, even if we wanted to, uh, coordinate, uh, we, we legally cannot. And from the perspective of, uh, how our relationship, uh, what our relationship looks like with, uh, with far upstream, with the mining sector, uh, it is indirect, I think, is the best way of, uh, of framing it. Because we have direct relationships, obviously, with our tier one suppliers, which is final assembly, tier two, which is final components, uh, and some tier three, uh, but that's about the extent of our direct, uh, supplier contracts. And so the rest of our supply chain, we classify as sub-tier indirect. And so when it comes to sub-tier indirect suppliers, we are able to influence, or at least we attempt to influence, uh, the supply chain, uh, through one of two ways. Um, one is through cascading requirements through our, uh, through our suppliers. So we have, we have requirements, uh, that we, um, that we ask of our suppliers, and we ask of our suppliers to ask their suppliers, and so on. So that is the, uh, the cascading expectation model. The other one, of course, is the minimum, uh, requirement model. So we will only accept materials that meet, uh, XY Z, uh, specifications. But beyond that, I will say that as, as I mentioned, as traceability really expands, uh, throughout the supply chain, I do expect to see some of those relationships, maybe not change from a contractual perspective, but maybe change more from a, a relationship and engagement perspective. Uh, I, I do see, uh, the potential for not for coordination of, of, of buying decisions, of course, we can't do that. But what we can do as an industry, I think, is, or as a number of industries, is set clear expectations of what our minimum requirements are going to be for, for sourcing materials in our, uh, in our products. And that's not unprecedented. I mean, we do that, uh, you know, for all kinds of different, you know, safety requirements that are regulatory, all kinds of environmental, uh, compliance regulations, uh, that, that are mandatory. So this is not unknown. Um, and I think that this is probably going to roll out more in that way in the future. So it's going to be less direct, but hopefully, it's going to be much broader.

Thank you, JJ. Uh, we are going to move on to our, to our next speaker, who comes from Irma. So Bob Walker is going to be joining us and speaking from a finance and investment perspective, uh, about the importance of Irma. Uh, so again, please make sure to put your questions and answer, or your questions in the Q&A folder, and we will, we'll address them once Bob is done. So over to you, Bob.

Uh, yes, thank you. Uh, thank you, Beth. Bob Walker. Um, good morning, good day, good afternoon, good evening. It's a pleasure to be here and, uh, to talk about finance and investment, uh, working with Irma. Uh, I come from a background in the responsible investment space, going back more than 30 years now, to about 1990. So I've been present almost at the creation of the concept of responsible investment and then through its evolution today, where it is a significant part of the investment market. Uh, that work has been done in think tanks, investor networks, industry associations, and for 20 years at a leading investment manager here in, in, uh, Canada. I happen to be based in, in Vancouver, on the west coast, in British Columbia.

The central message I want to leave, I think, is that the Irma standard is attracting attention and will gain increasing traction with investors because its adoption will solve a number of problems, information problems investors face, and I think help drive opportunity in the transition to a net zero economy. Uh, the key features, I think you've heard a few already, uh, is its robust nature, the fact that it's based on, uh, existing international standards, the, the standards that Aquina, uh, addressed early on in the presentation, uh, the, the robust audit process where all voices are being heard, that should reduce the number of surprises down the road. Its level of transparency and the detailed information that the audit process yields is all of tremendous value to investors seeking to fill in, uh, the data gaps that we often face. And I think finally, uh, the, the stakeholder governance model as well, uh, the, the equal ownership of Irma across those stakeholder groups will resonate with investors who tend to be focused and alive to a variety of, of governance challenges that corporations can face, and therefore always have a focus, I think, first and foremost, on how any organization, any entity in the capital market space, is being governed. Uh, this model, I think, will be viewed very, very well, uh, by the investment industry going forward. So that's my key message.

Let me just go back for a bit more context now, a bit more background. We are working, as I said, with responsible investment institutions who use environmental, social, and governance criteria to identify risks and opportunities in the investment space. You may hear that acronym quite frequently here, environmental, social, and governance, ESG. Sometimes the space is referred to as ESG investing. At the leading edge of this space, I think responsible investment institutions seek to deliver sustainable value for shareholders, stakeholders, and rights holders, that being workers, affected communities, and Indigenous people, while also, obviously, providing a rate of return, uh, to their shareholders.

One indicator of the size of this industry is the membership, a number of groups, but I think one of the leading ones is a group called The United Nations Principles for Responsible Investment, which started up in 2005, and it is an international network of financial institutions, uh, working together to help signatories incorporate ESG and sustainability factors into the investment process. This includes using ESG factors, uh, two ways: one, to make investment decisions to buy, hold, or sell a security, but also to use the shareholder voice to advance progress on environmental, social, and governance issues at investee companies. Again, just the size of the space. Currently, the PRI has about 4,000 signatories in 80 countries who collectively control about $120 trillion in assets under management. And the membership in, not PRI, but other organizations across this landscape, uh, would include some of the world's largest investment institutions, including pension funds, sovereign wealth funds, investment managers, banks, insurance companies. All these entities are active and present, uh, in the PRI and in other networks working to advance the concept and practice of sustainable investing. Uh, PRI has its roots in listed equities, so equities, companies listed on public stock exchanges, but it's now expanding to cover other, maybe, I, I should say, all aspects of the market, uh, and increasingly within private markets, including venture capital, hedge funds, private equity, and private debt funds. It is virtually looking into every aspect of capital markets.

Some of the trends, uh, along with a focus on firm-specific risks, so risks that are specific to a given corporation, there is increasing focus on what are being called systemic risks that threaten investment performance. Systemic risks are defined as those that threaten entire sectors or even the economy as a whole. Within the mining sector, just as an example, a firm-specific risk would be a case where community opposition to a mine results in a revocation of its social license to operate or even its legal capacity to function as a company in a given market. We're, uh, perhaps unfortunately for us, we live in an era when systemic risks are proliferating. Climate change being, I think, at the top of the list, but increasingly investors are recognizing biodiversity loss, the loss of ecosystem services, the deletion of the, the expiration of the resource base, as well as social inequality is also presenting systemic risks, uh, to capital markets, to economies, and to our society.

In response to systemic risks, investors are forming systemic responses. Action will come increasingly by groups of investors raising a common solution set for multiple companies in, in a given sector. And that's what I want to note as well. The dialogue with companies is by far the preferable approach by investors. Usually, we want to wait a long time before we make a decision to, to invest. So just to note that you will see, I think, in future references to Irma and invest from investors coming through the use of the shareholder voice, through dialogue, and in certain, certain circumstances, through the shareholder proposal process and at corporate AGMs, in cases where the dialogue is failing or not working out to, uh, a level of satisfaction.

Just a quick few words on, on mining and Irma, then I'll pause and take questions. Um, as I mentioned earlier, I think at the top of the investor agenda today is a just and sustainable transition to a net zero economy. And with the drive towards net zero, investors are recognizing the need for a massive increase in the production of critical minerals that support electrification. I don't want to leave firm-specific risk behind. Leading investors have long recognized human rights challenges in the mining sector and have supported major initiatives designed to address these challenges, such as the UN Global Principles on Business and Human Rights or the Extractives Industry Transparency Initiative. For investors, I think Irma provides a range of solutions for, uh, for investing in the mining sector and in participating in the drive towards net zero and in exciting new industries when it comes to electrification and other technologies. It's detailed, it's comprehensive across mining challenges from tailings dams to free, prior, informed consent to labor rights and on. It does provide that continuous improvement model. A lower score would not necessarily mean divestment. It will provide a correction, a corrective action plan, and a new set of tasks that investors, along with buyers and affected communities, will, will pursue. So I'll stop there and take any questions.

Great, thank you so much, Bob. Um, so we're looking through our list and looking for the finance-specific questions, and maybe they'll continue to come in. Um, but right now, as there's not a specifically finance-focused question, maybe what I'll turn to, since we have a bit of time, is one of the other questions that come, that has come in related specifically to the systems. So the question, the first question that came in today was, how long does the self-assessment take? And, um, why, who in the company does it? And do we have training for people who will do the self-assessment? And Aquina, I'm actually, um, wondering if you're there, if maybe you wanted to talk to this. I'm also happy to come in and give my perspectives, but I'll maybe turn this over to you.

Thanks, Becky. So essentially, the self-assessment itself, which is done through our online system, which is called the Mine Measure 2, doesn't have a time limit. So as Beth explained, for the first mine that you choose in your company to take up, um, the self-assessment, it will be free, and it will only be charged from the second one. There isn't a limit, and the reason for that is that it allows you to internally assess yourself, check where you are in terms of the requirements, be able to actually close your gaps, so building up that action, corrective action plan for yourself, and actually start closing those gaps. So that by the time you actually hand over your completed self-assessment, at least your confidence is high that you've already worked on it and, uh, you, you're confident that you might actually do well. And even if you don't do well, I mean, there are always, um, corrective action periods that you can take up to 12 months, that you can take up to three, six months, depending on, of course, the level at which you need to do the self-correction for your specific organization.

So the second question, Becky, can you just repeat the second question besides how long?

Absolutely. Who in the company does the self-assessment and do you have trainings for it? Do we have trainings for it?

Ah, so in terms of the self-assessment, your mine site would need to allocate certain resources that will actually be doing the self-assessment. And on the Irma side, in terms of the support, I'm actually now going to actively work on a training set two, that we're calling training set two, where I'll be outlining how we actually equip our mines to actually undergo not only a, a self-assessment, but to actually be adequately prepared to take on an audit. So that is training material that will be coming up in 2024. It is a priority for Q1, so that will be available as a resource. But for now, we are able to still take on calls where we do take you through the formal process in terms of what do you do, what does the assurance process look like, and I'm obviously here to support you throughout your assurance process. So whenever you get stuck or you need assistance, I'm here.

That's great. Thank you so much, Aquina. And come back on. Um, this is great. So I'm just keeping track of the questions here. Um, all right. So another question that came in is wondering how Irma can attract the major mining companies like BHP, Rio Tinto, etc. I think what I would point out first of all, we'll hear from, uh, one of the majors today from Anglo. Um, also, I think it's important to know, Sibanye-Stillwater just announced an audit. ArcelorMittal is committing to audits, uh, at many different sites. So those are some of maybe the larger companies with multiple mine sites that have come in. And you'll also hear from two other, uh, large mining companies today. But the question is a good one and one, and one that I think we need to answer, um, you know, clearly. And I would say, I mean, we certainly, uh, see that many of the majors are aware of Irma, um, you know, are learning about it. And I, what I would offer here is while we can't, I, we do hold in confidence our conversations with different mining companies, so I won't name names here. I will say that it's really important to know that our self-assessment tool is free. It's free of charge for mining companies of any size to start to understand and know Irma. Um, and I think what I'll say is that we see companies of every size, from the majors, um, down to smaller companies, coming in, learning the system, and understanding it. And I think that's how I'll, I'll answer that question here. And Beth, I think I'm going to turn it back to you.

Great, thank you. So now we are going to be going into hearing from our mining partners directly, which is, we will be hearing from three of our partners, as Becky mentioned, starting with Anglo American. We have John Samuel and Sarah Makumbe here to join us to speak about their experiences. I will remind everyone that throughout the presentations from our mining companies, some of the presentations will be in Spanish. So please, if you need English interpretation, please remember to turn your interpretation on, uh, at the bottom of your Zoom screen. But with that, I will pass it over to Sarah and John to speak about Anglo's experience.

Great, thanks, Beth. Um, I hope you can all hear me. Sarah's going to do most of the talking because Sarah is our Irma program manager and does all the hard work and deserves all the credit for the results we're getting. But just a little bit of background as to why, um, Anglo American chose to get involved with Irma. And I think there are, there are a few really. What's so first, obviously, growing customer interest in both provenance, so, you know, tracing metals back to mine of origin, and also, you know, what's going on at that mining of origin? Is it consistent with the values that our customers have? So that was an increasing theme. And off the back of that, we were seeing increasing numbers of questionnaires and audits, and it was actually getting quite difficult for sites to focus on their day jobs because they were having to constantly respond to the customer inquiries directly or, or from corporate teams trying to gather information from across our many sites.

I think we also felt there was a little bit of a risk that, you know, we would get distracted from taking quite a holistic approach by, um, investors, journalists, NGOs, customers, following on from the latest, you know, big issue. And unfortunately, you know, mining has ended up in the news too often for the wrong reasons, and that normally precipitates a whole series of questions about, you know, that particular topic, you know, whether that might be, um, tailings dam management or cultural heritage. And so we did want to make sure that not only were we managing things that have been in the news properly, but all the things that haven't been in the news, and that we certainly, as far as our business is concerned, we don't want to have any, um, any bad news stories coming out of our business because we weren't focusing on those.

Growing regulatory requirements has been a real theme as well, um, and, um, then I guess finally, you know, mining is about access to land and developing new projects. So we also wanted to ensure that when we were going into a new area to build a new mine, for example, or to purchase a business, that the stakeholders could have confidence in the standards to which we would build and operate mines, uh, and that's often not the case. So we felt that having a, you know, a multi-stakeholder endorsed standard, um, that we would be committing to operating to, would actually build confidence in those stakeholders and ensure they could hold us to account. Um, all of those pressures were actually leading to quite a wide range of standards and audit protocols coming through, covering different geographies, different commodities, different end-user sectors, and also different issues as well. And as a multi-commodity, multi-geography, uh, business, that was getting very, very messy for us as well. Um, and so, um, yeah, that led to us thinking, well, if we, we're gonna have to do this, let's do it in as coordinated and integrated a way as possible. Let's, you know, if we could possibly do it once to a high bar, that was better than doing it lots of times to a lower bar. So, so we felt that the high reward, high bar approach that Irma has effectively taken was the right approach for us and actually simplified it. And I think, you know, since we've made that public commitment to audit all of our mines against repeatable mining standards back in 2018, actually, I think what we've seen has borne that out. We actually got on with implementing Irma. There have been lots of other things going on in the background. All of those other things, our work on Irma has essentially provided us with the answers to all those other, um, mine-level requirements as well. So, um, and then I guess just, you know, finally, you, you've heard from one of our, you, one of the customers in Irma, you know, our customers are coming to us and asking if we can partner with them on long-term supply of responsibly sourced product. So that's a, a beneficial thing for us as a business. I'm going to hand over to Sarah now, who's going to talk a little bit about the impact Irma audits have had on our operations and, and also the interface with, um, other audit work that we do in the ESG space across the business. Sarah, over to you.

Thank you, John. And good day to you all, um, on the call. My name is Sarah Makumbe, as John has said, and I am the Irma program lead for Anglo American. I think just maybe as context, to date, we have, uh, completed eight Irma stage two audits and one surveillance audit. And I think with each audit, we are learning more about Irma and about our sites, and in particular, trying to use that to further improve our operations. Now, if I just look at, um, I think the question of how have Irma audits improved Anglo American operations? Our starting point for that is, as a mining company, like several mining companies, we have our own internal standards, and we try to develop our standards to world's best practice. So like, you know, other, we aspire to also have world-class standards to which we adhere. However, when we look, um, at the reality on the ground, our implementation is not always to those standards that we aspire to. So when Irma comes along and we do our Irma audits, we get independent eyes that challenge our viewpoints. We also get to hear from external stakeholders, um, who participate in this audit, whether it's the community, local governments, or even customers. We get to hear from, um, them around our performance to our standards. And once we have that feedback that's holistic, that's come from an independent third party, we get to learn about our operations and areas we can improve on.

I think some of the areas we're improving on that, you know, we've picked up through the Irma audits around, uh, for example, water management plans. Water management plans, um, that Irma suggests are adaptive, are integrated. At the moment, we may have that information, but in various different places, and through Irma, we are, you know, learning how to integrate and have that holistic approach towards our water management. I think waste management plans are also one of those areas that we've picked up on that we are working on to improve further, um, and just trying to ensure that our intent is delivered, um, in reality at our operations. Um, when you look at the feedback we've had around worker health and safety, we have robust risk assessment processes, but they may not have been consistently used. And where we have those gaps, we use that as an opportunity to learn and to feedback. Um, and then I think the last area I'll touch on is around grievance mechanisms for stakeholders. Um, I think the implementation of those grievance mechanisms across different operations, um, has been differing, and some of it has to do with, um, local cultures and, you know, local context. But through Irma, we then get to, you know, take time to get feedback from our reports and say, what are we learning out of this, and how can we use that to improve? So while I've just shared these themes, these themes are different across different sites, um, and that, you know, speaks to how they've implemented our internal standards, the, uh, history of that site, the maturity of that site, the leadership teams. So we, we learn site-specific information. I think that was alluded to earlier, that Irma is site-specific. So I think you won't, we haven't found big themes that stretch across the whole of Anglo, but we learn at the site level, those nuances that allow us, um, to improve further.

Now, moving on to the question of how do Irma audits support other ESG related audits at Anglo American? I think when I look at this question, it's really key for the first part that, um, a lot of mining operations like us are facing a huge audit burden, um, from various places. In our case, we have our own three lines of assurance. So, we've got internal audit processes. Um, we also have other external standards, as John was alluding to, that we need to, um, subscribe to for various reasons.

So, when you look at the MMA audit, we, we found that it's very comprehensive. So, it helps us to set a base for building onto our ESG audits, um, especially when we want to have a consolidated audit protocol. So, it gives us that starting point for consolidating our ESG audits, um, at a site level.

Then, um, if we then maybe move away from just, just the audits themselves, I think we're also trying to take the learnings from one site and share them across to other sites. In doing that, um, we, we see a benefit of Irma driving for overall continuous improvement. So, we're not waiting for the audits just to happen at this site and we localize the solutions, but we want to use the Irma audits to improve at scale at a large group to say, "Okay, this is one of the things we're getting. How can we use that to learn?"

Um, John, I'm going to give this tough one to you back, which is, "Isn't it impossible to achieve Irma?" I think because I've been in the nuts and bolts, I'm also keen to hear your answer. So, over to you.

Um, so our view is that it's, it's not. So, as, as Sarah mentioned, we've had several sites audited. We've had, um, public results done. We've got others coming, which we know about. So, we're confident that that operations can, can do well. And of course, we've seen other companies do, do well in the standard as well.

Now, we also think it's probably possible to do herma 100. However, you'd have to be best practice on every single thing. And I think there is a legitimate question about, is that an appropriate resource allocation to be absolutely top of the class on every single topic at a site? That would require a huge amount of time and investment to achieve that. So, but, but we do believe, um, that, um, getting herma 50 or 75 is, is quite possible for a well-run operation. And, and I think our experience and the experience of other companies in the process already shows that.

And then going back to, I think a point that JJ was making from the buyer side as well, I mean, it is about continuous improvements. So, even if you start at transparency, in some ways, actually Irma is an easier scheme to engage with than some of the other standards because quite a few of those are pass/fail. Irma is not pass/fail. So, if, if you're really not in a good place to start off with, herma is actually something you can engage with in the knowledge you get a useful result that customers will be, uh, that the customers will value, um, even if you don't quite get onto the podium with, you know, an Irma 75 or Irma 50 score your first time out. So, so we do think it's achievable. Um, it is a fair amount of work, but, um, you know, we think that's worth it in terms of customer recognition, stakeholder comfort, and so on. And, and, you know, just some of the points been earlier about the finance sector, we think once the finance sector starts to see the results of herma audits and understand what they mean, um, that will be really useful information for our investors as well.

Wonderful. Thank you both so much, John and Sarah. This was so helpful. Um, turning to the Q&A, we do have a question here. Um, first, a thanks from the audience for being so truthful, showing areas where there's improvement needed. And there's just a question, I think, about, um, Irma assessment. Did it help the company raise its, I think, license to operate is really what's being asked here, through the improvements that were made or the findings that that came out of it? Do you feel that this particular activity of going through an audit helped with the license to operate?

I mean, it probably depends if you mean at a local level or at a group level. I do think that at a group level, our willingness to engage with the stakeholders around the year table has had a positive effect on Anglo American's. So, for example, we did an M&A project here in the UK, actually, in March 2020, so just over three years ago. And, you know, mining didn't have a great history in the UK. And people were looking at, um, you know, looking at who this company was. Although we're headquartered in London, we've never operated big mines in the UK for, for a very long fact, we've never operated a big mine in the UK. We'd had one mine at one point, quite a small asset. Um, and, and we know that people looked at various things that we, we committed to. And, and the fact that we committed to herma actually gave some stakeholders some comfort that we were a business that was, you know, very aware of stakeholder expectations and willing to invest to, um, you know, to, to meet those expectations as well. So, yes, so I think we believe it's stood us in good stead. And, you know, as I said earlier, we also believe it's saved us a lot of time and money in terms of engaging with a, a whole variety of standards, some of which have sort of come and gone already in the, in the time that we've been working on om as well. So, particularly frustrating to put time and effort into implementing standards that then don't last.

Great. Thank you so much, John. That's so helpful. Beth, I'm going to turn it back to you for where we're heading next.

Thank you both, Sarah and John, so much for sharing those experiences and for answering those questions. Uh, we greatly appreciate it. We're going to move on to another one of our mining partners with Javier Silva from SQ qm, who just had their first audit report released in 2023. For him to share the experience from sqm, uh, on their Irma audits. So, Javier, over to you.

Hello, everyone. I'll be speaking in Spanish. After a very long process in sqm, because it took us about three years since we took, made the decision until we fulfilled the self-evaluation and eventually reached to the Irma 75 result. Excuse me, I just realized that I hadn't turned on my camera. So, we made public the, it was a work that, that was jointly carried out by, by different departments, maintenance, hydrogeology, etc. And basically, this standard has provided us with a line of action. And it provides a roadmap for companies who want to identify with Irma as a sustainable brand. And I think that we basically responded to the requirements of our different stakeholders, such as indigenous populations, our clients, the industry. And we thought that this was possible. This is a decision we made in 2020, and now in 2023, we are seeing the first results of, uh, our efforts. This is only a first step, as Anglo American just said, and as other presenters have said, this process entails continuous improvement and it's an exercise of transparency to show what we've been doing, the good things, the bad things, what we still need to do. But basically, we believe that this is essential in order to start a path towards trust, the trust of our local communities. Indeed, this is a challenge, but for us, it's been a very satisfactory process because thanks to, uh, standards such as the ad standard, we can mobilize everyone, especially in those companies where sustainability is more of a cross-sectional concept. And we try to mobilize everyone and we try to get results. But we try to do it directly ourselves, but it helps to have a roadmap, a standard that will support us and say to us, "This is what we expect from you," because this provides us with tools that will make it possible to, uh, make those changes. We've been able to improve in terms of carbon footprint. We've engaged better with our communities. Uh, this also helps us understand what the communities, uh, expect from us. The standard, uh, focuses on human rights. We have engaged in discussions with the indigenous communities and we have talked about their rights. This may sound a bit contradictory for some people of the organization, but we believe that these conversations are necessary. This has helped us define a roadmap in order to continue improving. And this helps us, uh, to have a long-term vision. Sustainability from my standpoint needs to be understood in the long run. We cannot only think about the short term or about the cost that we need to incur on in the short term. Uh, we need to think in the long run of how we can operate sustainably and responsibly in the long run. In Chile, we find ourselves in a situation in which we also need to provide evidence. We need to show others that we are a sustainable option, that we are a sustainable company. So, being part of Irma has helped us a great deal to help us, uh, send a very clear message out to society so that they understand that we are a responsible operator. And this is a clear message to our communities as well. This also helps us, um, improve our relationship with all the different stakeholders. And now, at this point, I'm going to explain to you the benefits of this process for us. For me, we have gained a great deal in terms of transparency. Now we have reflected in a publicly available document, uh, what we are doing, what our plans are to continue improving and making headway. Back in 2006, we started publishing our sustainability reports, but we understood that we had to go a step further. So, H, we decided to knock on the door of Irma. We decided to do the self-assessment and we decided to participate in the audit, uh, out in the field. And now, with the results out there and seeing the level and the, we have reached, this has given us, uh, momentum. This has given us the, the desire to become even more engaged vis-a-vis sustainability. It also fills us with pride, I must say. And it also has generated an amazing culture. And, um, it has, uh, helped us a great deal in our sites. And, um, everybody now understands the impact of the herma standard. There are posters out there and the company pointing towards the herma standard. And now people, you know, have this feeling, uh, of, uh, pride. Now, all workers, all employees recognize the standard. And this has helped us raise awareness among the workers. Workers understand that the company is committed to sustainability and is committed to better conditions, uh, um, to better terms, and, uh, is committed to adjust, uh, transition towards, uh, decarbonization. And this is very much in line with the, uh, key conclusions of the Conference of the Parties, uh, 28. We need more lithium, but we need sustainable lithium. And we have jumped on this bandwagon. And, uh, we want to encourage other companies as well to jump on this bandwagon because we, as a society, need to be responsible mining operators. This is something that we owe to our societies. And of course, we're open, open to listening to everybody's, uh, feedback. Uh, we, we want to continue improving. And that's why we are listening to the feedback of all our stakeholders. In 18 months, we will review the standard. It's not that you are certified and that's the end of the journey. No, it's, uh, part of a journey. And it's very important that we continue working and that we bring more people on board and that we make sure that this vision permeates across the entire organization. And I'd like to send a clear message to the mining companies that are still doubting on whether they are going to join Irma and do the self-assessment. It's true that the self-assessment is exhausting. It's very challenging. The number of requirements is huge. But in hindsight, I understand that this process gives you a level of, uh, reassurance and of maturity. And you understand that what you're doing is indeed aligned with responsible mining. So, the goal here is not to reach a level, but to be part of a process, to be embarked on this journey, to be part of this path, to demonstrate that you are really committed to ongoing improvement. I don't know if there are any questions out there. I'm afraid I can't see the, uh, chat screen. Perhaps Beth can help me in case, uh, some questions have propped up.

Absolutely. We would welcome the hearing from you on this particular question. Let me just find it here. It's about what sets up, uh, company. Let me read it out loud, directly. What is the most important for a successful audit in terms of the site being well prepared? So, maybe you can talk about how you prepared for the audit to be successful and who was involved from your team.

Well, I think what's most important is to communicate, to reach out to the maximum number of collaborators. You need to convey very simple, straightforward messages so that they understand, uh, how they need to participate in the Irma process and what role each person needs to play. So, what we did was organize constant meetings of the sustainability team out on the field. We engaged in conversations. Um, we also, um, played some posters explaining what Irma expects from us and what the world expects from us. So, first, uh, transparency, communication, ongoing follow-up of the progress made. And from the community's standpoint, you need to communicate at, uh, I'd also like to explain that we explained to the local communities what we were doing, and we gave them the opportunity to express their views and their concerns. And we wanted to understand their perception of this operation. And for me, the human rights due diligence process was of the essence. And this is something that we hadn't done until then. We were a bit fearful, but you need to, to be bold. You need to dare. And it's really, really, um, uh, gratifying to be able to listen to others. This due diligence process for human rights is essential. H, many times you can correct deficiencies only in a matter of weeks. Many times you're not even aware of their problems. So, it's very important to, you know, listen to others. So, I insist, we had many meetings. We had the sustainability team out there on the field. And this is what has allowed us to, to reach this level of compliance.

Thank you so much, Javier. It's great to hear from sqm and your experience, uh, going through the Irma audit. We do have one final speaker from our mining partners, who I, uh, am looking forward to introducing you to. Ellen Lenny Peno, who is coming from Albemarle, will be speaking to us about their experience, uh, with their first Irma audit as well, uh, having just been released in 2023. So, Ellen, over to you.

Thank you so much, Beth. And, um, thanks to all for joining this webinar and to Irma for the invite. Um, I am the Global VP of External Affairs and Sustainability. And for the first three years of my, uh, time with Albemarle, I was Country Manager in Chile. And so, um, you know, the F, my first question is, how was the case for Irma made in Albemarle? And I think, you know, we had, um, a, um, long experience in operating globally, uh, as well as in Chile, where we were pioneers and really starting the lithium industry over 40 years ago. And we, we started focusing on aligning with the standard. And we did some, um, research on that. And, um, we just kept coming back to that Irma was clearly the superior standard. And if we're going to spend the, the time, the money in aligning with a standard that would effectively help us mitigate environmental risk and human rights risk, that Irma was the way to go. So, um, as a team, we got rallied behind the standard. But of course, we had to get, um, a leadership on board. And, um, um, this, uh, you know, we're really a specialty chemicals company at heart. And, um, you know, there was some concern in senior leadership about the transparency. And I know that, um, both Anglo and, and Javier mentioned that. And, um, but we, we got, um, uh, the senior leadership comfortable. And one of the ways that we did that was talking about this 12-month period, which is really important, um, is that a company, after they have their initial audit process, um, they have a 12-month period to actually make improvements. And so that got leadership more comfortable around, um, that while we would be more transparent, we would have time somehow, if there was, um, some surprises, um, to, to really, um, help to mitigate that impact. But really, um, from the outside, our philosophy was continuous improvement. It was all about the journey. It wasn't about the audit itself, but really improving, um, how we operate. And I think, um, many of you in the mining industry know that there's a lot of focus on the salar. Um, and so having an independent third-party audit against these really rigorous standards would be, um, really helpful. Um, and we did, um, announce, uh, at Fastmarkets Lithium in 2020, that we would be aligning with the standard and called on the industry, the lithium industry, to also align around it. And we're really pleased, um, uh, that our, our partner, our, our, I guess I should say our competitor in the salar de Atacama, also, um, moved so quickly. And that we've got other lithium, um, mining sites that are going through an audit process. Um, I think it's also important to note that we committed to, um, using the same standard, um, just as John said, in all of our mining sites. So, our two mining sites in Australia, Western Australia, are currently going through the process, and we're very focused on the Irma standards in Kings Mountain, North Carolina, where we've got a brownfield site. And we're finding it such a useful playbook in terms of, um, engaging very early with the community, um, in transparently sharing all of our environmental baseline data, and really co-creating, um, the mine with the community. So, our biggest learning through the Irma audit, um, really, I think the first one was, when people work with purpose, they can move mountains. And the entire team in Chile was so aligned and excited about, um, um, really, um, rolling out this, this world-class standard. And so, after the auditors left, or sorry, in our last meeting with the auditors, what the team members said was, this had been one of the most impactful projects they've worked on, and they were, um, just so passionate about, um, about making these improvements. And so, I think that was our biggest learning is, is that broadly, if you give people a bigger purpose, they will, they will deliver. Second, the process is more important than the final result. So, we really have successfully cultivated an environment of continuous improvement, and really, it's made people think in a more holistic way. So, you've got, let's say, an HSSE manager, community relations manager, production manager, they're all thinking in their own, um, key objectives and what they need to do. Now, we've got a situation where all of them are thinking, if I do this, how will it impact, um, the community? Or the community is thinking, if I do this, um, you know, so, so it's, um, and all focused on those herma standards. So, it's really, again, it's, it's just a phenomenal playbook. Watching how the entire corporation got behind this was a great lesson learned as well, too. There were so many areas of mining sites. Cannot do this on its own. There's got to be policies, protocols, procedures at the corporate level that back up the local policies as well, too. So, you know, really, in the end, our stakeholders want to make sure, um, that we mitigate, uh, environmental and human rights risk. And Irma is the most robust standard to do this. So, I would say that was our big takeaway in terms of learning. What's changed at Albemarle now that an Irma audit has been conducted? Well, first of all, we've got, um, um, some work plans that we're working on that you, you can find in Irma's website on our report. So, we've got very specific deliverables, um, with timelines. Um, so, we've got the team who was focused on the audit now focused on, on what comes next. But I would say, um, just as importantly, I think the company is filled with Irma ambassadors today. And so that's not just at the salar. That's the top leaders, uh, in our company, the board, um, as well as folks in many, many different functions and all across the globe. And they're all thinking about how we can use this standard to drive better outcomes. Um, the other thing that we're really focused on is redoubling our efforts to show, uh, what Irma is, how it works, that it's not just, um, uh, kind of a check-the-box exercise, but it truly is a path towards best practices. Um, so we have been engaging with government stakeholders, industry associations across the globe to educate them on Irma and why they should promote this standard. So, um, um, you know, and, and we also want to keep working, uh, with Irma and with others to ensure that this standard remains really robust. What are the key differences with an Irma audit compared to other standards? It's, of course, this multi-stakeholder approach that we've been, been talking about since we got on this call. Um, you know, we know that when we're looking at this standard, we're making improvements that unions, impact of communities, and NGOs believe are the most important issues. And we really view the Irma standard as, kind of, a canary in the coal mine, if I can use that, um, you know, canary in a coal mine is supposed to, um, indicate when there's no oxygen there. And so, we see the Irma standards as it will be the, the standard which is quickest to evolve to really reflect, um, what societal expectations are. So, and we want to be part of that. Um, um, and I would just say, you know, another key, another key difference is this rigorous audit process that we went through. So, we had five auditors arrive on our site. They've done a lot of pre-work, especially on the community side. Um, and, um, you know, they spent five days, um, really getting to know what our operation was like and what our stakeholders thought. So, there is nothing, there is no mining standard out there today, um, that, um, that looks like, uh, what, what Irma is. So, um, uh, with that, I think I've got a, um, a final question, which is, do Irma standards take too long and can they scale? And I think it's really important that quality work cannot be rushed. So, as we think about a community dialogue, community dialogue cannot be rushed. It takes the time that it takes. And Irma, um, audits shouldn't be rushed. Now, can they be done a little bit more effectively and a little more quickly? Yes, but I think it is important for everyone to recognize that, um, it does take time to do this well. So, um, you know, I think, um, all, I'm sure that all the companies that have been audited have been engaging with Irma and how to make improvements, as well as providing feedback on, on the audit, the actual auditors. Um, I would say a big focus should be on the scalability because, uh, as, uh, we see more mining sites embrace Irma, it will be really important to make sure that there's not a long, uh, waiting process in order to be able to get an audit. But, uh, I do think that Irma will be able to scale. But all of us, all the six houses, um, need to be part of that solution as well to make sure that Irma is scaled up and that the audit auditors are scaled up as well in order to meet this demand. So, in general, I would just say it's, it's, it's been, um, an investment, a good investment of time and money, um, to align with this standard. And it truly has put us on, um, um, a strong path of continuous improvement.

Excellent. Ellen, thank you so much. So helpful to hear about this. In the Q&A, we're getting quite a few questions about community engagement and building trust with communities. I think going through the assessment is one part of that process, but certainly then the audit comes out and gives you some results that you can work on. So, the question specifically was about how has going through the assessment process helped in acquiring and maintaining, um, that social license? And I think what I would say, it's at Irma, of course, we've talked about this a lot, that it's really about these are often sensitive spaces, sensitive places. How will a company like Albemarle, uh, use what you've learned through the audit to increase your outreach, to increase support for those who might be most concerned about extraction there?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think, um, you know, uh, we have an agreement in place with the indigenous communities around the salar. Um, we put it in place after a four-year dialogue. It's valid from 2016 to 2043. And, uh, we laid out how we work together to ensure the sustainability of the salar. And that's been our big focus. Um, and so, um, uh, what Irma really added, the value that they added, was what else we needed to be thinking about. Emergency preparedness plan, for example. And I'm sure many mining sites go through this, but, you know, the mining site leader, takes this very seriously and thinks about the community when he or she puts this plan together. But, uh, herma requires that you sit down and talk to the community about it. It makes absolute sense. Um, so, um, the grievance mechanism process, I know, um, that Sarah mentioned this as well, too. We now have a more robust tracking process. We're still, um, having that engagement on grievances through WhatsApps or phone calls, or whatever avenue the person wants to share it with. But we've got this standard in place now globally on how we track, um, um, these grievances, how quickly we respond, ex, and what are the trends in terms of what the complaints are. So, really, I think those are just two examples of when we look at the Irma standards, they allowed us to, they required us to think more broadly about how we engage with the community. Um, you know, ensuring that we're not only speaking with the leadership, um, of each community, uh, but also, um, um, speaking with a better representation of who lives in that community. So, that's, that's really the power of Irma is that this, this multi-stakeholder approach has resulted in best practices that, um, you know, um, a team or a company, on their own, probably wouldn't have arrived at at such a, a broad and impactful list of requirements.

Wonderful. Ellen, thank you so much. Um, I'm looking to the final question before we come to close. And, uh, there's a question here. We mentioned, you all have mentioned, actually, um, this idea of a multitude of standards out there. And the idea is, how can you be sure that Irma is the best option out there? I think, um, many of you have spoken to some of those reasons. But I think JJ, actually, this question is coming to you from the perspective, um, of downstream, right, of the buyers. Do you think that markets and governments are favorable? And do you have an estimate to what level? And I can see that Bob is also active in this conversation. So, maybe to bring it back again, we've heard from, from the mining sector of the value. And I think maybe we could wrap it up coming back, JJ, for a quick remark from you, and maybe from Bob, in terms of the value that you're seeing on the downstream side of going through a process like this.

Yeah, thanks, Rebecca. Um, I mean, ultimately, from a downstream purchaser perspective, you know, I alluded to earlier the fact that, you know, when it comes to standards and certifications, there is, you know, criteria as to what we can accept, uh, as, as individual purchases. Um, but that is going to be influenced by those who we answer to, uh, whether it be customers, shareholders, other stakeholders, whomever. Uh, and to that end, the standards of certifications that we accept have to meet some sort of base level of, uh, credibility and acceptance. And I think, as far as Irma is concerned, uh, the focus for many downstream purchasers has not only been on the, um, you know, what is stated in the standard itself, and, and of course, you know, it's been mentioned already, the standard is, in many ways, um, you know, a culmination of, um, you know, many existing, uh, frameworks and standards out there. Um, it's not just the letter of the law, as it were, but it is also how the, um, how the standard is implemented and how it is is governed. And I think that that's what really brings that, that level of credibility. And it is that level of credibility, uh, that extends to what those key stakeholders in our universe that I referred to earlier, um, expect us to accept. So, I think that that hopefully that gives some clarity into sort of the thinking, uh, behind why downstream purchases, I think, do have a high level of favorability towards Irma. It's why many of us are, are baking Irma into our supplier specifications because it has, it brings with it that level of credibility with customers and other key stakeholders.

Great. And Bob, did you want to come in from a finance perspective?

Yeah, just, uh, just to note, um, building on my remarks from earlier, that, uh, BlackRock, the largest investment manager on the planet, recently came up with a statement noting, um, that investor disdain or ignorance of of mining is threatening the green transition. This is a sector that has been, for a variety of reasons, out of favor by a lot of investment institutions. That has to change. Our expectation is, with adoption of Irma, investors will gain comfort in what's happening in the sector, given its comprehensive nature, its robust nature, its stakeholder governance model, and the detailed information that that's provided in the audit process will provide that level of comfort that will put mining back on the map for major investment institutions, expand the pool of capital that's available to mining companies, and lower the cost of capital, providing a real, um, I think, bottom-line reason for why companies should be looking at Irma seriously. I'll stop there.

Thank you all so much. This was such a great presentation. Thank you, JJ, Bob, John, and Sarah, Javier, and Ellen. Thank you so much for sharing your perspectives. We are coming to the end of our session together. For any of the questions that we have not been able to answer live, we will try and answer them in a follow-up when we do share this presentation with the group that has registered. We do want to say that Irma is growing. We've heard that, uh, earlier today on the call. And within that growth, we do have two dedicated supports specifically for the mining sector. Both myself and Aquina will be here over the next year to answer your questions, to help you with your Irma journey, to get you started with your self-assessment, and to really support the mining sector as we continue to see traction build for Irma in this space. To go along with that, we do have training modules that we will be, uh, providing to any company, an introduction to Irma, as well as diving into the Irma system more deeply that Aquina had mentioned earlier in the presentation. We want to build out these modules and these trainings for you to make the journey a little bit easier, and to take the learnings that we have had over the last few years and with the mining sites that have gone through the Irma Audits and take those learnings and have them implemented a bit easier for you. Right now, we do also have a live consultation happening on our draft Irma standard. You can find information about that on the Irma website, which we would love to have your input on. The consultation goes until the end of January, and you can find information on the Irma website or through our LinkedIn pages. And with that, I really do want to thank every one of our speakers for what you shared today. It really is invaluable to hear from you and hear from the different houses about the value of Irma. And thank you to all of the participants who joined us. We're so glad that you were able to attend and look forward to following up with you over the next coming months. Thank you so much.