304 Destroyer, ANDREW WILSON, Joins THE SITDOWN!

What up, guys? Welcome to another episode of The Sitdown. And today, I have a special guest, 304 Destroyer Andrew Wilson. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. So, I got I'm not sure about this jarred water, though. I don't like Jarred Water.

Well, we like to be like environmentally friendly. I care I care a lot about the environment. Please disregard this can. I mean, it's such like a beautiful studio and this and that. I'm like, why am I drinking out of a mason jar? What's going on here?

Well, I feel like that's higher quality. Yeah, higher quality HDML. That's fair. All right. Um, so how how did you get into this space of YouTube?

Uh, by complete accident.

Really? Yeah. So, were you just like a normal guy working like?

Yep. Normal guy. I was working um mostly doing well I mean um I I did robotics repair and uh industrial robotics maintenance and um yeah essentially um when COVID happened they shut down the types of plants that I was working at.

Mh. So, I had some free time and I started going on and wrecking people in various um I won't say where, but um a pretty pretty public uh internet area. I started wrecking them pretty bad and um people enjoyed it and I enjoyed it. So, I kept going back and wrecking more of them because I hate the left. Like made me really hate them. Yeah. And um you know that hasn't changed either. I still really hate them but um but that's how I got into it.

So, because I've always wondered, you're so normal and the people in this industry are so weird. Yeah. You You and Rachel both are just like the most normal people and so grounded and I find that people that didn't have real jobs before just go kind of nuts because they never have to deal with like being told no ever.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a same thing. I've noticed the same exact thing. So, one of the things is um like I didn't know I'd be a great entertainer that I had no idea that but it happened right and I think when it happens to people like me you know I was already in my late 30s you know I'd already been raising a family I'd been in the private sector my entire life uh you know working 40 60 70 80our weeks depending um so yeah very normal people and yes this industry is completely filled to the brim with absolute absolute [ __ ] lunatics all over the place. So, uh, yeah, I get I get what she's saying.

So, what were you like before? Like, if a like if a woman said something stupid at your job, would you say it?

I would dunk on her. Yeah. And you wouldn't get in trouble because like I mean, cuz people Well, first of all, it's a very male oriented industry that I'm in, right? But I just got to tell like men in trades are all like me. People think they're on the internet and they're like, "Real men do." I'm like, look, every electrician, every uh, you know, every guy who's doing HVAC, every guy who's underneath uh, you know, a Chrysler with a wrench in his hand today, they're all like that. They don't put up with Shut up. You know what I mean? They don't put up with any of it. So, well, you know, there's some some Sims, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying like um most of the time, no, they just they just don't put up with it because I had a hard time in volleyball because like I couldn't really be super vocal with my opinions and when I was, it's like it was all women though.

Oh my god. Yeah, I you know, I played in a tournament with trans people once. Gross. And this is why I don't feel bad at all for women that play with trans people because I was the one who said something. And do you know who yelled at me? Who? [ __ ] women. Of course. Of course. It's like, so now I don't feel bad at all. Get punched in the face. I don't care. Yeah. I don't care. I don't care. Get Well, like it's the only way for them to learn. Yeah. You know, it's the only way for them to learn. They're like, "We didn't want this." I'm like, "Yes, you did. Yes, you did. There was a little bit of social pressure. you gave to it immediately. So now they steal all your little medals, they beat you in all your little events, you know what I mean? And we just get to kick back and let because like when's the opposite ever going to happen? It's never going to be a female to male who's going to go out there and clear the football team. You know what I mean? That's never we don't have to worry about it. It's not even a big deal for us. We're like, "Yeah, bring them in. We'd love to beat up on them, right?" But women, they you know, they they're the ones who got to worry about it. And it's like, "Well, if you voted in, you voted in." I know. For every one Riley gains, there's like 10 women fighting to be beat up by dudes. I don't feel bad. I don't feel bad at all.

True. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I do not care. Yep. Live by the vote, die by the vote. That's right. So, you're like one of the most based conservatives, I would say. Like, you're one of the only ones that call out like conservative feminism. Did you notice that from the time you were like young or is that something you kind of woke up to in the last few years?

I've seen it. I've seen it from day one in this industry. I mean, even my early very early debates with women who were supposed conservatives. It was it was like that where we were going back and forth and be like, "You sound a lot more like a feminist than you do uh, you know, a right-wing Christian conservative or even a right-winger at all." So, I mean, all the way back in the early days of the Crucible, we were basically doing battle with the evil women of the internet and there's many of them.

And where like where were you at in the beginning? Like what forums? Like?

Yeah. I'm not I don't even want to dive into it.

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yep. Don't even want to dive into it. But you used to debate with like Destiny.

Yeah. Yeah. Destiny, all those guys. The reason I don't There's nothing nefarious there. Like people can go find it all, but yeah. Um it's because I used to work with another group, right? And I just don't want to give them any clout because it pisses them off, right? That's really it. I just don't want to give them any clout because this is you before I'm like, "Oh, is that a bad topic? I didn't mean dumb." Yeah. Yeah. I just like I I'm sure it irritates them and so I just find.

Why do they turn on you or something?

Yeah. I'm not going to get into it. Oh, okay. So, there was there was some whatever. Yeah, there was some bad blood there. But you were killing Destiny even in the early days.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Going way way back. We've always been I mean I've I don't know how many debates I've had with that guy. Many, you know what I mean? and he is one of my favorite ones to tangle with on the left because he's not a complete, you know, [ __ ] idiot. Um, but yeah, we've I mean, and we'll we'll tangle up, I'm sure, in the future, too.

So, do you think that he's woken up at all? Like post the divorce, post like getting a sexual out?

Nothing. Live by the source. He's completely He's completely unfazed by any of it. Uh, but you have to understand like look at it from his perspective. He doesn't have shame. No, like those guys. If people are going to pork your chick and you're okay with it, like how are you going to shame them? Shame them with what?

I know, but you're like, can imagine like you go over to your friend's house and he's like, "Hey, come on in, man. Have a coke." And you sit down. You're like, "How's it going?" And you just like you're hearing sex noises from the other room. Like, "What's going on?" Oh, you know, Fred, he's over here [ __ ] my wife. You know, he's just over here [ __ ] my wife. No big deal. Don't worry about it. You know what I mean? So anyway, what do you want to do tonight? It's like, so if you don't feel shame by that, you like you're not going to shame a person like that. They don't care.

Well, I almost think they're kind of pragmatic because I talked to someone I know who's like he does the open relationships and stuff and the way he sees it is the conservative guys are getting cheated on anyways. So, he's like, I might as well get to do it, too. Like, like, think about it like this. If a conservative guy gets cheated on, um, but he's loyal, who's more of a cuck, Kim or Destiny, who's banged like half of conservative commentators?

Well, he's not a cuck unless he knows like cuckoldry would require the like the requisite. So, I mean, that comes from the cuckoo bird and the idea is that the the kid is unknowingly you're unknowingly raising the child because you don't know. That would be where the cuckoldry comes in. Same thing would be you knew that your chick was banging somebody else. Otherwise, if you're just getting cheated on, like that's just [ __ ] up. Like you didn't.

What did you do? No, I I'm not say like I wouldn't I like I wouldn't want to do that type of thing, right? Obviously, but like the way they view it is some of them that I've spoken to in depth is like they're [ __ ] anyway. Like the like the way they're going to view it is you guys are doing the same thing. You just don't know it. Like your women are cheating anyway. At least this way. I get a ro like I mean his roster is kind of impressive. It's like Lauren Southern he banged Pixie's okay really like is is that is that impressive?

I mean these a lot a lot of these types of women have like spent their whole life with a mattress strapped to their back, right? I just think most guys would find them like attractive. I'm not I'm not saying like it's good whatever but but hang on. I'm saying like the guy who's getting cheated on. Here's what I've noticed though from doing so many especially live whatevers. I've noticed this trend. Uh so you I'll ask women like who's who's the more attractive sex, men or women? And they're always like women, right? And even the men say women, right? And so I I started thinking about it though and I was like wait a second. So I started reframing the question. I'd be like now let's say you couldn't get a boob job. You couldn't wear any sort of makeup. You couldn't get any sort of cosmetic surgery done. You couldn't have any butt lifts. You couldn't have any facelifts. You couldn't have any of that. And it's just you all women versus all men. Who's the most attractive men? and their answers are like night and day. So I'm like, so basically if men just went, "Okay, we're just going to get a ton of cosmetic surgery then and wear makeup all day, we would actually probably be the more attractive sex."

Probably. Yeah. Because I mean, you see it a little bit in Hollywood. The men get Botox, veneers, they get hair transplant, and it does transform the way they look. I mean, there's a reason women do it as much as we make fun of it. Like I mean, I've seen women because it works. They're always trying to capture youth. Yeah. And so, you know, they do they but basically I'm like, so basically you're all augmented. And you're like, that makes us the the, you know, the better looking sex. And I'm like, what about without all those augmentations? What do you look like then? It's like, ah, it's not it's not great. You know what they look like? They look like those chicks and those old women's voting uh or or the uh the alcohol prohibition posters where they're like, lips like yours will not touch my, you know, lips who drink a beer won't touch mine. And you look at those women, you're like, why would anybody's lips want to touch? You would have to be drunk. Like, you'd have to be drunk to want to touch those women. But that's more akin to what they would actually look like. So, yeah. I don't even believe the fairer sex thing. I don't even think so. Like, basically, every single lie all we've been told about women has over the years just crumbled completely. Until like 25, I would say women are more attractive.

I don't think so. No. I think if it was the same augmentation, you know what I mean? same augmentation available to both. I mean, these women are getting boob jobs at 22. Do you know what? We forgot about steroids for men. That really changes guys like physique when they go on like Yeah. I mean, yeah, they like punch walls, but Yeah. And women cry when they're on their like, you know, oh, I'm dieting. I'm on my special diet. And they, you know, they go [ __ ] ballistic crazy, too. I don't know why they never for we never for remember that. Like, go guys are roided up get roid ra. Like, that's true. Have you ever seen what it's like when a woman's dieting? What her attitude's like when she's dieting? They're like conniving horrible [ __ ]

So, you guys really solve all our problems. They're like, "You can't diet anymore. Here's Ozic. You're flat. Here's some fake boobs. Here's some fake boobs. You don't want to age? Here's some bones. Oh, you're having self-esteem issues. What can we [ __ ] do for you today?"

Yeah, exactly. And then the men the men are like, "Well, we What about prostate cancer? We're like dying." They're like, "Fuck you. But here's a boner pill for those augmented women. Yeah, you that we get old and our husbands don't want to screw us anymore. They're like, "Here's Viagra. It's his fault." Yeah. Just sit there. Just sit there and hope. So, but I mean all of it, it all starts to collapse actually very quickly. Like even even in studio when you see these women with your eyes, your camera eyes versus how they are when how they how they appear. I'm I'm always telling guys I'm like, "Listen, they don't look like what you think they look like." You know what I mean? Even the outfits are designed specifically to like pinch here, cinch there, take a little bit off of there, makes me look a little thinner here. Like all of it, it's all conniving. The corsets. Yeah. It's all conniving and it's all BS. You know what I mean? And it's like um so yeah, just like basically all illusions that I might have ever had are completely gone.

Did you see my catfish of the year? No. like the threat. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I made it. I forgot. There's some major publication that I was in and I was like on um it went so viral they got so mad. All cuz I said that you don't look like your pictures. Didn't call them ugly. I didn't say you were badl looking, right? I didn't even say I was better looking. I just said you don't look like your pictures. And some of those were so.

You know who won? Who? That like crazy red-headed lady. The libertarian. The redheaded libertarian. Oh yeah. Yeah. I saw the comparison contrast, too. And it's like you spend a little bit of work. Yeah. You spend a little time before you go into work working on what you look like before you go to work or Yeah. If if your beauty is a full-time job, you might just not look like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. What's your favorite moment of your career? Like is there a debate that because you recently my favorite for I think well my favorite for me like just the one that I enjoyed the most who did was with Bivo with who?

Bivo. Who's that? Bivo the cuck. He was oh man that was the funniest [ __ ] ever. This guy this Only Fans chick was there with her boyfriend Bivo who's like a famous Tik Tocker or was a famous Tik Tocker and his whole claim to fame is that he swallowed food whole. Okay. And he came in and he was like, "Yeah, this is my only fans girl." He's like, "You let your chick get stuffed by other dudes and you're just like, you know, okay with that?" He's like, "Yeah, what's wrong with that?" "No, you ain't going to care when I live in my mansion and this." And then he just started spuring out and it was really funny, right? I didn't think anything of it. But the next day he came out with this cope video where he was like, "Okay, so the whole thing was a LAR and I'm not really a cuck, guys. I don't, you know, blah blah blah blah blah." And that was all [ __ ] Turns out he really was. and he was just coping, you know what I mean? He's like, "My dad called me and said, "Hey, you can't be letting your chick, you know, bang other guys, right?"

Well, and if you're going to Okay, if you're going to be a cuck, like, own it. At least Destiny owns it, right? I mean, like he's not going to do an apology video. Yeah. There's no shame at all. They don't care. No shame, you know? And feminism works out really well for leftists, honestly. I mean, leftist men love it better than anybody. sexual liberation from they wouldn't get laid without it. Like imagine there was the enforcability of what we had in the early 1900s where women were just socially compelled to remain chased until they were until they were married, right? Leftist men, have you ever seen what they look like? They don't get no [ __ ] chicks. They ain't getting any. They're not getting So sexual liberation is like they love it because it's the one way where they can be the mistake, right? you you you they could be that woman's next mistake, you know, and they're leverage themselves to do it. So, yeah.

Which Oh my gosh. And you called him out for the Lauren Southern stuff before that long before it ever came out. I knew that that was they were like they were like that didn't happen. It didn't happen. No. And then like his friend comes out 40inute video. That happened. Yeah. Yeah. So funny. It was so funny.

How was um debating Tommy Lauren?

Uh well, she's insufferable and she's also she you very deep voice on uh Tommy Lauren, right? Very masculine traits on her, but also like many of these conservative commentators, I really don't understand the female conservative commentator sphere because they're really really [ __ ] stupid. And I'm like, how is it that you keep getting brought on TV and then then you realize, oh, I see it's because they think that men want to have sex with you and so they present you as, you know, a package where you say right-wing thing plus men want [ __ ] and then bam, we make money. So once you realize that that's what the formula is, it's like, okay, that makes more sense because they are really stupid. And it's like it's no wonder you don't see female conservatives in the debates sphere with feminists because they would just get destroyed. They would ju the feminists would just mangle them because they're so [ __ ] stupid. I mean just ridiculously stupid. Yeah. I think there was a point in that debate where you said I can't remember what you said. I just remember her face and it was just asked what duties women have. Oh, that was it. It was so I was like what are duties that women have towards men? And she was like, "Well, I just think that men naturally want to provide for women." I'm like, "So, wait, so you think that I want to get you nice [ __ ] just to watch you have it?" You know, like that's that's what you're saying. Great. Well, that's fantastic. Every man on earth wants to sign up for that. And then if you say that to him, like, well, you're not a real man, right? You know, a real man will buy me nice [ __ ] and then just watch how happy I am when I get it. That's what real men do. These they're wild. These these women are wild and out, especially especially on the conservative side. You know, th in fact, a lot of the feminists, the outright outspoken feminists act more conservative in their relationships with men than the conservative women do. Yeah. Significantly more submissive than the conservative counterparts, which is just insane to me.

I know. I saw you on whatever and you're one of the few people that say that there's no difference between conservative and liberal women. Like you hear Charlie Kirk and he'll say like, you know, a woman's political opinions matter. And I don't know what you found on whatever, but when I was doing interviews, I didn't really see a difference. I was like, you can just reprogram her after you.

Yeah. Well, I mean, there's always going to be individuals who have good political takes who are women. Mhm. Like that's the case. But you generally speaking, it's like a general statement. It is true that the you can't put a piece of paper between conservative female commentators and and feminist female commentators. Like it's a piece of paper between them. And um and that's what I found too. And when I'm debating them, they always use the same talking points. And instantly, you know what's really fun to watch? If you get two conservative females on a panel and there's like four liberal females and you start tangling up with with both sides and you watch the sisterhood form instantly, right? Suddenly they're not conservatives or women or or or uh liberals, right? They're they're women and you're an evil oppressive patriarchal lunatic man, right? Instantly all of the political divide gone.

I saw that with Nala. That was crazy. All of the Oh my gosh. Michael Null. Have you debated him yet? He won't debate. Oh, I've asked multiple times, requested it multiple times live, and I know that Brian whatever has requested it multiple times. The guy won't debate. Yeah. You know, it's really funny for the guy who always gets a lot of [ __ ] They're like, "You only debate 304s." I'm like, if the roster of men that I've debated is massive, right? The roster of men most of my critics has debated zero. Zero. So, it's like uh I'm just an equal about it, right? I don't care if you're a [ __ ] idiot who's a guy or a girl, right? Both of you. You're an equal opportunity. Equal opportunist when it comes to that. So, with Nolles though, yeah, I would be happy to him, all of those guys on the Daily Wire. I was always happy to tango, especially Claven after I saw the Claven interview you did, I was like, "Oh man, I want to tear into Claven so bad on this because they're they're just clueless. They have no idea what they're talking about."

Yeah. What are your biggest disagreements with them? Like what would you if I were to take like the the Daily Wire and T USA and all that? If you were gonna if you were gonna do you versus like 10 of them, what would be like the points you brought up?

Well, the first thing I would do is I would say like you guys publicly lie a lot about the idea of women in your organizations because when I talk to the TPUSA people on the ground privately who are at universities, organizers, things like that, they're like, "Andrew, I totally agree with everything you're saying. These women are completely predatory. They're a big problem to have in our organization. You know what I mean? I wish more people would tangle up with them. They know it's an issue. They just pretend it's not. And why? It's because they want a ground swell of support from conservative women. That's what they're after, right? Uh the problem is they're not actually speaking to real conservative women's issues. And real conservative women's issues are not it's not about these stupid idea of baking bread wearing a [ __ ] sundress. And that's what it's become. Mhm. So, you know, the first thing I would dive into is like, well, what are the women's issues between the left and the right, right, that you find makes the woman a right-winger or a left-winger? What are these actual issues? Where's the divide here? I don't think they give me an answer. I don't think they could actually give me an answer. I think that they would end up saying a bunch of social issues that were all leftwing based, all of them. And conservatives are even trying to fund IVF now. Yeah. Yeah. It's so crazy. I'll see Candace Owens tweeting about how like the Gardil shot is making women infertile. Yeah, I saw that. And I'm like, I don't know. I think it might just be women having kids older and also getting too many STDs also makes you Yeah, it's not hard. But the thing is like when one out of three women has an had an STD like and we all know we all know it's higher, right? If we're admitting to one out of three, it's half. Yeah. But but Pearl, here's a bit of one. Why would conservative men advocate that women go to college knowing that it's like the most degenerate institute they could ever send women? Yeah, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What goes on at college? A bunch of conservative stuff or a bunch of having sex, drinking, drugs, promiscuity? That's what That's what goes on at That's what college is famous for. It's not famous for rolling out highly educated women. That's for sure. It's definitely famous for rolling out progressive women who had very highly promiscuous histories in college. It's like, why would conservatives be advocating for that? No, we would need an educated populace. Send all of our all of our reproducing age women to a a den of literal degeneracy. That's the stupidest [ __ ] I've ever heard. And I've never heard any of them get put to that question ever once. Like, why do you think that's a good idea? They they have no idea. They have no like why are you advocating for that? It's dumb. It's just like when Lauren Chen was she was advocating for Oh, that was advocating for secular marriage. I'm like why? Advocating for what? Secular marriage. I'm like why would you advocate for secular marriage? What's the point of that? She was like actually now that I think about it I don't really know what the point of that is. She disappeared. Thank you for the super chat. It says keep up the good work. Thank you guys. Um, that was a hilarious debate. She was like spuring out. Yeah. Jen. Yeah. Enemies take down themselves. Yeah. There was a You know what's really funny? What I noticed is that all those people who went after Crowder on the divorce thing, crickets, they all took themselves out. Like within a year of that, they all started just one by one taking themselves out. all the ones who so I'm like kind of waiting for the Candace fall too because she went pretty hard. That was when I was like people in my chat ask me all the time like do you support Candace Owen? Nope. Said why? And I was like when this guy was getting divorced, we all knew he was under gag order. Couldn't say [ __ ] He couldn't say anything to anybody, right? And that's when they hit him when he couldn't defend himself. Like the worst cowardly weasly way to attack. And she was right there and still is. She doubles down on it, right? She double doubles down. Oh, he's an abuser. Shut up. Shut up. He's an abuser. He like And oh, he talked to his wife in a bad way, [ __ ] Are you going to tell your husband how he's allowed to talk to you? Shut the [ __ ] up. Well, and you don't know what the con what critical context is behind that? Like, what if she had been a [ __ ] for 36 hours before and he finally lost his mind for 5 seconds, but that's what's filmed. Like you don't even these people didn't even have the context. They were looking to bump him off and kind of jockey themselves into a little position there is what they were looking for. Says, "Welcome, what does that say? Welcome to the Crucible Crew." Yeah, welcome to the Crucible Crew. Happy to see you guys there. No. Well, that's the thing with her. I really used to be a fan of her, but I'm like she's the same. Like the Crowder thing was so disappointing for me because I watched all of like because I feel like I came at this from a viewer and I just watched all the conservatives that I I thought I really liked just pile on top of this guy who like what did he do? He raised his voice at his wife. That was it really. Like none of you have raised your voices in your own home ever. Re all of your fights you look like an angel. Really? And I'm like, if you were really, like, now she's grifting Catholicism, and I'm like, if you really meant the Catholicism stuff, like you would have a retraction, an apology, and you wouldn't be telling a guy how to run his house. It's also fine to change. That's bigger now. The grift lord is here. The grift is here. You must send super chat for the grift. So, yeah, send it. Um, the other thing is is like, you know what? What about this? You could also just be like, you know what? I was wrong. I was wrong and called it wrong. And you know what, Stephen? Sorry about that. He just do that, too. He's so nice. Like the guy would probably be like, you know what? No problem. You know, but they don't even do that. They now now a lot of that stuff is public, right? And they still won't do it. And it's like, well, you know, Candace, all all goodwill I might have had towards her the second that happened, right? Yeah. Gone. I mean, she said he was an abusive monster. I'm like, really? said worse than that, you know, and who knows what what a chick like that with connection, who knows what she did behind the scenes, right? Who knows what they do behind the scenes, you know, conniving, evil, backstabbing lunatics. So, yeah, screw that. Yeah.

So, what would be your next point with them? So, the first part would be about college and?

Yeah. Well, I would I will No, the first point would be to ask what the distinctions what they would consider the actual distinctions between the behaviors of conservative and liberal progressive women. What are they? I don't think they could give me many. The second would be to ask why they send them to these dens of inequity when they know that that's a terrible idea. And the third is why it is that they refuse to engage in any of the points of the red pill in order to either a refute them, right, or b adopt them. But give a Christian prescription, correct? For what it is or you know, see, just like blow them all out, right? You have you have to either offer the reputation at some point. Uh or you're going to get dominated by the ideology. These are supposed to be Christian conservative commentators. The only one I've ever seen in the red pill doing battle with these guys is [ __ ] me. I've never seen anybody else doing it. Mhm. And the thing that's so funny is even though I fight with red pill guys constantly, I'm constantly debating with them, I get associated with red pill because I won't take any [ __ ] from these feminist women.

That was going to be my next question. If you consider yourself redpilled at all, I think that descriptors from red pillars are often fine. Like descriptions of what's going on is fine. I think that most of the time they come out with prescriptors, they're terrible and stupid and kind of [ __ ] Mhm. So, like when guys are saying, you know, sleep with multitudes of women to like experience a level up, I think that that's dumb. I think if they're saying things like, u, do you think it works though?

No. No, it doesn't work. You don't think women treat men? Who has access to that? Like this teeny tiny percentage of men. How's that going to help uh men in general?

Well, I'm not talking about men in general. I'm talking about like individual men. Like if they're if they're trying it and coming back and saying that this helped them in their life, like you can't really argue with that. Yeah. But I mean, you could say the same thing with heroin. You could say the same thing with crack, cocaine, whatever you wanted. You know, I tried cocaine. It helped me in this portion of my life. It's like I still wouldn't give it as a prescription for people to do, you know, like when I was really down and out, here's an easy one. When I was really down and out after a breakup, I would drink way too much. That doesn't mean I would give that out as a prescription that men drink way too much after a breakup. Yeah. But I don't really see it as like they're telling men what to do. I just think it's more like if you want to do this, this is how to do it.

Yeah, I agree. But that would again be a descriptor instead of a prescript. It's the guys who give it as a prescription or the pickup dating dating artist community does this a lot. Yeah. Like live how I live. Yeah. Here's the various prescriptions or what society should be doing or things like this. That's where they run a foul. a lot. And you got to take some some of the descriptors with a grain of salt, too. They're not always true. The pair bonding studies aren't always true. There's lots of stuff you got to be careful about. I just think like anecdotally, though, um I think most men like women just tend to abuse men when they know that they're their only source of sex. And that's where the problem comes in.

Well, what do you mean? Like women just have a tendency to not um like I don't know. I I see so many men where they're married and the wife knows that he doesn't cheat and she just does not appreciate his loyalty. And I see women where they think that the husband either could cheat or would cheat and they just tend to treat him better. Yeah. Tend to behave better. Yeah. And I think that's like that's what I was saying where as much as you don't like it, I can see why.

Yeah. But can there be that luminous implicit threat without it ever even being stated? Like I think there can be. And I think that those guys, a lot of those guys who can do that, they don't even bother saying what what do they need to say it for? Mhm. They It's well known that they can just do it. You can't tell her. Yeah. You don't need to tell her, right? It's not It's not important. So, how is that But how's that a prescription? There's such a small select few guys who can do that who have

Do you know what I think it's more common than you'd think. I I met this guy the other day. He was like 57 overweight. He was showing me his rotation. He was like 5 22 23 year old women. Was he rich? No. He was just good talker. He like he was just um easy to talk to. So, I don't know if it's like from what I've seen the PUAs, I don't think they're always the most attractive like or rich guys. Like sometimes they're just charming. They're also con artists. A lot of them they're conning, right? Like they make that [ __ ] up. Like that guy, that guy John Anthony lifestyle total [ __ ] con artist. Just made it all up, you know? Oh, I forgot I've got an 8,000 body. He's like, "Shut up, dude." And then the guy tells me, he's like, "I've never met a pickup artist in the world who hasn't done a [ __ ] one or two." And I'm like, that is disgusting. I'm like, "What, dude? What?" He's like, "Yeah, I've never met one who hasn't." And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure most of them don't." So, the thing is is like, uh, a lot of those guys are full of [ __ ] about their mark. I've I've gone to events like I've seen them take the women home and a lot of times it's really not um it's not always the best looking guys. They're just charming. Like, I don't I've remained skeptical in this regard that I mean, it's fine. Like, one of the PUAs I met in like Vegas, I mean, he was not attractive at all. Mhm. I mean, some some are, right? Like a lot of like a good amount are, but there's enough that aren't goodlook that like you would I'm surprised you would like you would be surprised just from what I've seen. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that there's again there's going to be men who are, you know, are exceptions to these rules. You know what I mean? But I don't think for the most part, um, it's available to most men to be just be able to go sleep with whatever type of woman they want.

I know. It's just the challenge is there's just no incentive for men to be loyal today. Like what do they get out of it?

Well, uh family the family we're having like one kid each. That's that's true. Women aren't really having kids. That's true. But but again and like there's no incentive like the wives cheat all the time. Yeah. But there's also wives that don't cheat at all. So the key the key is this. It's a matter of what you can't verify that. You don't know. You don't think every single wife cheats, do you?

I don't think every single wife cheats, but like my point is if she does, there's a lot of avenues where he wouldn't even know. There's a lot of avenues the other way, too. I agree. Right. But I guess the point is is yes, it is it is true if we average all of the children. Mhm. Yes. It averages out to, you know, less than two per woman. That's true. But that doesn't mean women are only having one kid, you It just means that fewer women are having multiple kids and other women are having zero kids. So, it's like, yeah, there's still men who I want to see them have a family, have multiple children, and have a loyal wife. And yeah, I still think that's very possible.

It's like possible, but I don't I don't know. I just talking to young guys, I don't think I think a lot of them don't really see that as happening for them.

Well, I think a lot of times they're like every trend is predicting it's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. That's true. And I agree that it'll get worse. Like Yeah. And so it's like they could hope for that, but that's not a strategy, you know.

Well, it is a strategy though when you start looking for what virtues are. Once men re reallocate their idea of feminine virtue or female virtue, what I've noticed is, you know, I get contacted by thousands of men all over the world. Like once I reoriented for what I considered feminine virtues to be. I started being very much more successful towards women who had held those virtues. Yeah. But it's for now, right? I mean, you don't know how it's going to play out in 10 years and 20. Like a lot of a lot of women are virtuous for a period of time. You know, there's just no. It's tough. I think interviewing the men that were divorced kind of blackpilled me because um I would just see women that in every like on paper were better than me in every way. They married younger, they were like more religious, you know, and I'm like like you know they married at 20 or whatever um orthodox Catholic whatever whatever it is, right? And they did like terrible terrible things like awful things. And I'm like, "Wow, there's no there's also heavy societal influence telling them that it's perfectly acceptable for them to do those things." We had a society not very long ago we can look to where the incentives were the opposite. Where if you did those things, there was uh very much social punishments which would come with them. You know, single motherhood was considered you were considered a pariah, right? You know, things like that. That's that's no joke. Social enforcement works. If you think that we could not propagandize from the top down again for social enforcement like we used to, I very much disagree. Every single war, every single thing that people believe right now all comes from top down propaganda. And it's like you could do the same thing when it came to the dynamics of family and relationship. But women would have to do social enforcement towards paras like they used to.

Yeah. I don't think it would work.

Don't think so? No. You know, there's countries that it it does work and is working. How is it working? Eastern block nations, they've been promoting not only birth rates through tax incentives, but also the family unit from the top down. Younger men are reporting much happier levels when it comes to the marriages they're having with younger women and women are acting a more virtuous way. Way less single moms. There's a lot of good stuff coming out of that. Yeah. And maybe like you could argue that, but just I don't think that the women on whatever are really going to change what they're doing, right?

Well, not all the women first of all. Like I don't you know not all the women on whatever are bad right it but there is I agree yeah like there's a case selection of many who are right but a lot of them there there's actually a good amount of women who've gone through whatever who are kind of based and kind of with it and understand that there's serious and significant problems going on you know what I mean uh but there's just also the ones who you don't want to touch with a 10-ft pull and who are [ __ ] delusional and everything else and they come from all walks of life I don't think that it's unfixable like you have a more blackpilled kind of idea than I do where you're just like this is unfixable. Let it all burn to the ground.

I don't think so though. Well, I just don't think we have as much as an impact as you might think. Like I don't think commentators can change trends.

I agree. Yeah. So, like no, hang on. Let me out that some can, but we ain't going to like some can. Well, at at like the highest echelons, yeah, I think some commentators are able to kind of shift like I've seen memes change paradigms. I've seen a single meme change the way people view a problem. So, I mean, I know that that does work. Um, but when you're when you're talking about changing the entire social trend of a country which has been indoctrinated with femin feminism and communism for a hundred years and has been indoctrinated with ideology which is around women's liberation. We're all born and bred and raised in it. Yeah, that's going to take a while. That's not a fast fast process.

But here's here's my question to you though. Like if we're under replacement rate, aren't they all going to die out anyway?

Yeah, but there's no guarantee. Like I've seen very Christian parents give birth to liberal kids. Yeah, it happens. But it's but it's less likely. Uh when it comes to the women, I don't really see a difference. Um I like I understand if you look at the body count between between kids who are raised in a Christian household and kids who are not, it is not even. It's not who has more incentive to lie. Yeah. But who is who has more incentive to lie? Like, you know, I I don't really trust any I don't trust any study that says like women said they do this. Yeah. Like, come on. But in this but in the social paradigm, they both have the incentive to lie.

No, because liberal women are still judged for being [ __ ] even if they're liberals, right? But they're much more open. They'll do it on camera, right? So will conservative women I mean they'll do it on camera, too. So they'll just switch. Yeah. They like they do it on camera, too. I I think they're both in would have the same incentive there because uh the idea of you being the social pariah because you have a high body count affects them both. But conservative women find the workarounds. So they do it from the back door. They'll blow and they won't count it as a body. Yeah. Progressives do progressive women do the same [ __ ] I've questioned both ends of that ideology both on both sides. Like

Progressive women also do not want to give you their body count. Progressive women also do not want you to know, you know, XYZ. Same as the conservatives, that social pariah aspect is still very much there. And here's why. Those progressive women, they still want conservative guys. They want Chad conservative guys. I would just, from my experience, balance of probabilities, the conservative women lie more because there's more incentive to. I would say they're more, I would say they're more dishonest. Where the liberal women will say, "Yep, I'm a [ __ ] [ __ ] march." And the conservative women put on a dress and say they're not, but they, you know, blow half of conservative media. I mean, that happens. I just think that they both have an incentive to not tell the truth about the body count. But I just, I don't. And by the way, you can adjust for that in studies, too. You can actually make adjustments for that by asking, uh, questions in different ways. And then if you have different sorts of answers, you can make comparisons on that and go, "Well, wait, so one still has to be more truthful than the other." Yeah. I just wouldn't take any study on body count seriously. Why not? Like, if anything, because women lie about it. So why do, like, why am I going to take their word for anything? Yeah. But I mean, like, what I would prefer is age of first marriage, number of kids, I think is better. Christians have that better, too. Yeah. A little bit. But Gen Z, it's really not that different. Like, if you include Boomer women in Gen X. Yeah. But if you, Gen Z, not really. Yeah. What comes after Gen Z is Gen Alpha, and that might be the most based, the most based ever generation that has ever lived. We don't know yet. Yeah. I mean, it could be. I mean, they were saying Gen X were going to be the worst degenerates ever, and they're actually less degenerate than than Gen Z. Gen X. Okay. And they weren't the worst degenerates ever. They became much more socially conservative than people thought. Gen Z, on the other hand, and and millennials especially. Millennials became a bunch of leftist scumbags. So, Gen Z moving the paradigm back a little bit. It's very possible that generation Alpha is finally the first generation of actual alphas, right? Rocking around. It's possible. I mean, I just see the sexes going further and further apart. Good. And I, I see, um, that's a good thing. I want that. I want the division. I thought you wanted the families. The, I do want the families, but the idea of the sexes being far apart is saying that we both have gender roles, and those gender roles, I'm not going to settle for less than that gender role, and neither are you. And it's like, so one's going to have to break, and it's going to be women first, because they need men. Men don't need them. Yeah. But I, what I see is it becoming more monetized, and you're already seeing that with, I mean, with all the OnlyFans models that you've debated, right? Like, it's just going to become more transactional. Like, that's what I would predict for the future. I don't wi, I'm not saying I wish that, right? But if I had to, like, guess what's going to happen. Like, do you really think in 10 years it's going to be any more conservative? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I do. I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't have expected Trump to have gotten elected the second time either, right? Not, not on the heels of all the propaganda which had happened against him. But, you know, the truth is is like the pendulum when it swings back, right, is swinging much harder back right. So, it used to be a little bit more like, kind of even. It would go to the left, then it would come back to the right, then it would go back to the left. It would be about even. Now, it's ticking left and then it swings harder. Then, it goes back to the left and then it swings harder to the right. So, it's always swinging harder right. Uh, if we look at states, states are beginning the process of outlawing pornography, right? They're beginning the process of doing that. Many of them successfully have done it. Uh, and I think that that trend is going to be moving more and more and more towards that until you get to a place it's like eventually. Yeah, but they won't ban, they'll ban like porn, but they won't ban OnlyFans. No, some of them are moving towards banning others. I doubt it. Come on. Women are going to die on the hill of like. Yeah, but you. Okay, but I will challenge this by saying this. A few years ago, we had this conversation on abortion, and you're like, man, that's never going to happen. And women will never allow the, you know, for abortion to go. Well, well, Roe versus Wade was overturned, but Plan B, like, don't you consider Plan B abortion? Yeah. The thing is, and that's way up. Like, if you look, if you, you could say maybe abortions have gone down a little bit, but Plan B's have gone up quite a bit. But it was still the first step in the mitigation process. So, it just starts. So, all of this politics, you really think slowing? You think number of kids is going to go up? Like, you think marriage is really going to go down? Not, not anytime soon. Not anytime soon. But here's the thing. The, the trend is, population is going to go still increase a little bit. Then it's going to plateau, and then the nose dive that we have in the years of pain that'll come from having an elderly population that doesn't have enough young people to care for them is going to be very brutal. But I do think that necessarily, just like we've seen, you know, time and time again. We even saw it in Soviet Russia with the propaganda has to start. You don't have a society. But I guess because my question would be like, what incentive do the men if we have to go through like 20 years of [ __ ] to get a wife? Like, what incentive do the men have to not sleep around? Well, I mean, in the current society, the only thing that would prevent them from that would be the idea of virtue and religiosity. I mean, like, Z women. Like, from a practical standpoint, from looking at your view here, from the practical standpoint, I would say nothing. Yeah. That that's my point. And I'm not, I'm not saying it's good, or I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I think like they come to that conclusion because it's pragmatic. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's very difficult to to make a normative claim. Like, uh, well, the normative claim, the moral claim, that's easy, right? But it's hard to make a more normalized claim. Let's say, not normative, but normalized claim of, uh, well, you just really shouldn't sleep with a bunch of chicks because it'll have a bad outcome. It's like, yeah, that's like, yeah, that's a harder, like, that's a harder line to tow. But I do think they look at the married guys who did, like the Crowders of the world. But I do think that you can make the great case though that it will ultimately have a worse outcome for you as you get older. That ultimately it'll have a worse outcome on you as an individual. It'll have a worse outcome on you as a man to not have children. It'll have a worse outcome for you ultimately. I think, I think I can demonstrate that pretty easily. But, um, but I'm with you in the idea of like, you know, yeah, trying to tell a bunch of 25-year-old men not to go [ __ ] everything that moves when it's willing to have sex with it. That seems like a tall order. I get it. Uh, but I don't think, I don't think for practical purposes, um, ultimately that that the red pill is right on that. I think that that the Christian right is more correct on that. That the outcomes for most men would be better ultimately served. Uh, and in the short term for society, ultimately served by trying to remove promiscuity in these behaviors. But if you take like society out of it and go on like an individual basis, like if the men that are loyal aren't really getting loyalty back and they're getting divorced, it's like, where, what do they, Muslim, are Muslim women cheating? What do they get like, what do they get out of it? Like, I'll tell you. Yeah. In that case, you're right. Yeah. Right. But what about Muslim nations? Are there women cheating? Yeah, I lived in a very Muslim area. They met nations. Not, not, not. I met men that were from those areas. They they try to. No. No. And I don't need you guys after me, so please don't come after me. But I'm not going to lie. All right. You guys, your women cheat just the same. I've not. Do you think women? You think women in Afghanistan are cheating as much as women in Los Angeles? I've never been to Afghanistan. I can't, I can't say for sure. Where they like, I have heard many stories, um, from men that have visited those countries and a lot of the women, this is pure, a lot of the women, that's pure cope. Listen, they're not. It's not even the same universe of cheating. I would say that this on your, your part is pure cope because the truth is is they're not. Objectively, they're not. The punishments are so severe, right? And the fact that you have to have chaperones even for women to walk around, they have to have male chaperones to walk them. That's not all the Muslim countries though. I know it's not all of them. But even in the ones that are more progressive, they're not cheating as much. There's no way. So, it's giving a demonstration of like, well, wait, if there is social outcomes, so there are ways to govern nations where there's social outcomes for these behaviors. It doesn't even need to be that extreme. That's way, you don't even need to make it where they, you know, you have to wear a shoe and can't show your. We've had this before in this country. It wasn't that long ago, right? But like, we're operating in the country we have now. You know what I mean? And I just don't think there's any incentive with what we have now. And not like what could be or what like, you know. You know what the problem with that argument is? Is like Rome was full of a bunch of pedantry and homosexuality and all sorts of gross things, right? And it did reform eventually, right? There was some destruction which happened. But yeah, like the virtues have to necessarily switch. So you go from Rome to like, uh, 1800s America. 1800s America looks real, real straight-laced in comparison to Rome, right? Like, real straight-laced. So, it's like this idea of, oh, you can't put it back in the, you can't put the [ __ ] back in the horse. It's like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying that you can't do it. I'm saying I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon. Yeah. When Gen Z, it's a gradual process. And so, we have to live in the laws that are governed now. And I, like, I think a lot of times what conservatives miss when they say like, men shouldn't sleep around. I'm like, well, you have to give them something for it. And right now they're saying like, do this for nothing, and it's just not a good sell. Well, I would say do this in hopes that one day we have Afghan laws. Look, I agree. Well, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying hopefully one day we have Afghan laws. I'm just pointing out that obviously we can look at so, at the social conditions of nations and and the social conditions of societies to see where women are doing these things or not doing these things. The western nations is where they're mostly being done. That's the primary areas that where sexual liberation is there, and this is the primary problem. So, I would just say this, just like it took 80 years for us to get here, right? It might take just as long to make the gradual transition the other direction. You know what I mean? But we have some things on our side. But yeah, you're telling like in 80 years you'll get a wife. Like, no, no, I'm not saying in 80 years you get a wife. But here's the thing, right? Is like, if we follow your prescription. Let's just. Prescription. I'm saying all I'm asking is the question is, what's in it for the guy? Like, if you're going to sell something, if you're going to sell a prescription, which I don't do, but I'm saying like, you have to answer the question, what does he get? I think that there are virtuous women that men can still get, and that they can practically get them, and that they exist all over the place, and there's millions of them. Yeah, but Aaron Clary's run the numbers on that. That's not true. Like, if you calculate. I've read Aaron Clary's. So, I've read Aaron Clary's book, right? But what is, if just so you know, right? 1% of 300 million still three million. Still a lot of women, right? And his numbers are not saying 1% are marriageable. And what he's giving is he's giving us a a spectrum, right? He's saying, "Look, if you're willing to put up with X, there's going to be 50% of women available for you. If you're willing to put up with Y, there's 30%." Right? But if you want a chased virgin, no tattoo, no trauma, it's a very small percentage. It's like, well, yeah, of course it is. But that probably was, it's probably always been the case in se. Sexual liberation that if you wanted a chased virgin women, no tattoos, no trauma, that it's going to be small. Promiscuity was even calculated in the study. Chastity, virginity. It was that wasn't in there. No, no, he didn't calculate that. It was, um, debt. It was. It was tattoos. That's true. Um, it was obesity. It was, um, I think those are the three main things. It was number of tattoos, debt, and obesity. Oh, see, I would have calculated in chastity, too. Yeah, I know. But so he said 1% when you just calculate debt, obesity, and, you know, are marriageable. Yeah. Yeah. From, from his method. Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. If you want to pay off a girl's debt. Cool. But and then he didn't even include like sex work. So, like, again, it's kind of asking the question like, what's in it for the average guy? I think, I think he did include chastity numbers. Clary did in his book. Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think he did. I could be wrong. Yeah, I'll go back and take a look. I have his book, so I'll take a look. But either, either way, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Ultimately, what I'm saying is like, um, so, so when we're looking at those metrics or you're looking at the metrics for marriageable, it's like, well, let me ask you a question. What makes you marriageable? Nothing. Nothing. So, nothing makes you marriageable? No. No, no. Um, I mean, I have no debt, no tattoos. I wish I was a little younger, but yeah. No debt, no tattoos. No debt, no tattoos. Um, I mean, I'm a nice person. I can cook. Um, I'd be a good mom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I would say then that if that those are the categories we're looking at, like body count's not even in there. This and that. Um, when we're talking about debt, too, how much debt? Like, if you come in relationship with $10,000 in debt, I don't think. Care. $10,000. I think the average is $25,000. That's still not bad. Honestly, $25,000. Yeah, but the average guy makes like $40,000 a year. Yeah. And average amount of time it takes off to pay off $25,000 of debt if you're hyper-focused on it. Even if you're making, but like this isn't a great sell, right? Like that's what I keep asking. Like, what's in it for the guy? Now you're saying, well, you can get a wife, but now you. No, no, no. I'm just, what I'm. So, here's what I'm saying. I'm saying you're these things that you say are, uh, you know, very high. Like, don't do it because it's like, okay, so should I. Let me ask you a question. Should I pass on a woman if she's hang on, if she's very virtuous and she has, she'll give me four children, she's super fertile because she has $20,000 in debt? Should I pass on her? That's up to you. Yeah. But I don't. Right. But that's what I mean. Right. That's the thing about the red pill that gets me. It's like, but we're, but you keep switching it. I, I'm not asking you. I'm saying we got to. I'm not saying do it or don't do it. I'm saying what's in it for the guy. A virtuous woman. And, and I'm saying on a balance of probabilities, they can't get that. And you can't prove it. Can't prove what? How would you know if a woman's virtuous? Yeah, but I mean, well, how do you know anything? How? But you're dodging the question. Like, how could you, how could you prove that? Yeah, like there's like the way that you can. Women's sex drive starts at like 16, and that's, I mean, I'm not even going to go and, you know, but like, so the average woman loses her virginity at 16. The average age of first marriage is like 28. So when you're looking at probabilities, right? Um, this is what your, your big thing is, like, let's look at the, the average and the inks of probability. No, I'm just, I just wanted to answer the question, what's in it for the guy? Like, not, not do it despite this. That's what would be in it for the guy would be a virtuous woman that would give them children and be a good mother to them. That's that's that's what they would be moving towards, right? But on average, they're probably not going to get that. Yeah. There's going to be less of them. So, there's there's all sorts of mitigation strategies. One thing is a mitigation strategy is they get brides from elsewhere. That seems to work out for some. Oh, no. Oh, no. No. No. You can't do that. No. You don't, you don't like the passport bros? No. Do you know what? If you bring them back here, the one of the worst. Stay, you stay there. Yeah. But no guy wants to move to like, in general, like women are 85% of travelers. So men in general, they don't like to travel. Like, most guys don't like. If I had to sell my brothers on moving to another country to find a good woman. Okay. So let me get. Most people don't want to like uproot their whole lives. So let me get this right. So then if I were to follow this, if I were to follow Pearl Davis's like entire viewpoint here, I just want to make sure I get it right. I'll steam man it. I'm going to steam man. Go ahead. There's no virtuous women, right? Basically any. None. Well, well, okay. Basically any. There's very few virtuous women. And that's true. You'd agree that's true. I would agree that there's that's true. That's like objectively there's not many. Yeah. I would agree that there's it's less than 50%. Yes. For sure. Okay. So, we're on the same. We agree. So, because of that, men, right, aren't they're not going to be left with the choice of getting virtuous women. Should they just kind of [ __ ] whoever if they feel like it because that's what's left to them? I'm saying that's already what's happening. Yeah, I know. And I'm saying I'm saying if we want to. But what should happen though? Well, I don't say what should happen. I say what is. Yeah. So, I, I say I can't, I, I. So, what do we do about that though? How does that? How's that helpful? But my question is, it is burning. It's like, well, how do we put it out? But it is burning. Yeah. But, but the way you're do, like, you're acting as if I have any control over what the world does. I, I can't control that. I, I can't, I didn't make this society. I can't control how the world is. Right. I get it. So, what I'm, I just keep asking the question, what's in it for the man? That would be what would be in it for men. And I don't think. I don't. Right. But I don't think there are enough virtuous women that that's going to be a good selling point because it can't be verified for one. And probability-wise, it's less than 50%. Well, what's the alternative to it, though? Well, it's already what's happening. It's why men are like bowing out. The sexes are going apart. They don't seem like they're happier because they're bowing out. They seem like they're happier when they find these vers. So, let's just say I don't know. I've met some. I've met some older players. They, they really are not in a bad place. Yeah. Most of the guys I talk to who play the field, when I talk to them privately, they're like, I wish I. Yeah, I get a different story. But let's just assume I'm just going to assume the W for a second. 15% of women. It's not like the guys married are in a better place overall. I mean, so many men are in like, why do you think we have phrases like happy wife, happy life? Well, because of if because of sick, right? But again, if if the results were so much better, it would be an easy sell. Yeah. But let's just, let's just say it's 15% though. Let's just say it's only 10% of women are virtuous. Okay. Okay. Actually, let's just do 10. Only 10% of women are virtuous. You'd still recommend that women who wanted virtuous men marry those women, right? Sure. Yeah. Okay. I mean, sure. Yeah. So, you would still want them, but why would you think that they should marry those women? Well, it depends what they want. But if, if I don't tell men how to live, right? That's not my place. Like, if you as a man want to go off and be by yourself till you're 50, I'm not going to tell you that's wrong. Why not? What if it is? Because I don't think it is. Right. So, now I don't, I don't, I don't think it's wrong if a, like, for a man to live if he lives. You're a feminist, Pearl. Sure. Wait, you're a feminist. You're do as thou wilt feminist, Pearl, right? But why? Like, why am I to tell a man how to live? Well, you're not telling how to live, how to live. I think that's out of order. Yeah, I agree. You tell the women how to live. You tell those virtuous women they need to marry virtuous men. Yeah. And you think they'll listen. Good luck. Well, I mean, I think that they're more inclined to listen to women than men. I don't think so. I think so. I don't. I've, I've watched women watch like abortion videos and not care. But I mean, do, and still get one after. But do do as thou wilt, right? Is that's brutally like when you say I don't. Well, I don't care ultimately, right? I don't, I don't really care. I'm like, you should care though, because ultimately the reason you say those 10% it's out of order for me to tell a guy how to live, right? I think that's out of order. Like, I don't think that's my place. Okay, but here's what I'm trying to explain. If you think those 10% of women who are virtuous should marry like the 10 or you should get married to virtuous men if they want to. The women, not the men. If they, I mean, they could be nuns if they want. They could. I, it's not my place to forget the nunnery, but if they want to get married, they shouldn't marry shitbags. They should marry virtuous men, right? If that's what they want to do. If that's what they want. Okay. Okay. So, I mean, so if you're just diving into even if they're virtuous, you're not sure. I'm like, even if they're virtuous, I'm not sure what they should do. That's where I'm like, well, my again, it's not my place. Like, you have to live with the consequences of your actions. And I just think a lot of YouTubers get like a god complex where they want to tell everyone how to live. And it's not my place, it's your life. Yeah. But I mean, like, it's if you, you get to live life on your own terms. You. Well, would you tell, would you tell men like not to become [ __ ]? I mean, if they want to do that, I'd rather they didn't. But see, okay, there we go. I'd rather not. I'd rather they didn't. I'd rather not. I don't really want to look at them, but. But let's keep that convers. Would you tell, uh, would you tell men like, um, so you wouldn't make any recommendations? Like, what if a man was like, I want to be a homosexual and have 20 gay lovers? Well, I, I could give what I think is right and wrong, and that's my personal opinion, but that's, that's not what I'm here to do. I'm here to stick to the facts. Got it. But this is great, right? So, it's not a god complex then. So, if you're saying I know what's right and I know what's wrong, then you according, but according to my worldview. Yeah. So, you would tailor that worldview though to the outcomes you wanted to see in society. That's not a god complex. That's just like picking your neighbors. Right. Right. But I, I don't agree because again, I think that every man has a right to live life on his own terms. And you're kind of dodging the question which ask it directly and I'll give you a yes. Which is what's in it for the men? What's what is in it for him? So, I'll, I'll repeat it again. What does a man get out of a, out of which thing? A marriage. Yeah. Yeah. What he would get or what he'd be seeking for a marriage would be a virtuous, non-vexing wife who gave him children was a good mother. But we agree that most men aren't going to get that, correct? We would agree that because that's less than 50%. Yes, we would agree that that is the case. Correct. And until conservatives can answer that question for men, it's going to keep going down. I'm not saying it's good. Didn't I just answer the question though? What? Yeah. So, what, what, what is it that they're getting out of marriage or what is it that they should be wanting and getting out of? Not should. I said what, but what are they getting now? Oh, descriptively. Yes. Yeah. And, and that's my, that's what I'm getting at is. Yeah. No, but, but we already agree descriptively that's the case. What I'm after is the next part where we're like, "Okay, so what the [ __ ] we got to do about this shit?" That's what I'm at. Well, you maybe you can start and change the laws and whatever. I just don't see it happening in my lifetime. Really? You don't think so? You don't think there's any possibility that people, people can run a social movement to change any of this stuff? Um, I don't see any evidence that it's going to happen. Yeah. I mean, the whole economy is run on the female dollar. Women make eight, like I always look at it as women, you make $8 off of women and $2 off of men. For like the pink tax. The pink tax. Make women make 80% of consumer buying decisions. So, there's so many industries that just depend off of women working. Sure. And women spending money, and I just don't see it changing. I, I hope you know, I hope you're right. It changed. Well, I mean, I, I hope you're right. How does the propaganda work though that gets all the women in the workforce against their will? And all the propaganda can't work to get them out of the workforce? Well, I don't think it's propaganda like that. I think it's what women want to do. Women want to do what? Women wanted to work. Women didn't want to have to work. Definitely not. And they definitely, uh, it seems like when I look at the regrets that I hear from women more than anything by the time they hit their 40s was that they did that [ __ ] and that they feel like they were completely lied to about it. Yeah, that's what they say. But that's kind of like a fat person like saying they want to lose weight, but they don't take any steps to like make it happen. They don't really want to lose weight. I mean, that's common. Like, if women, you know, if women have like, we get thousands of options on a dating app, right? Yeah. So, it's like, if you wanted to, you would, but we don't. So, what does that tell you? It's not what we want to do. Well, so wait, okay, that doesn't follow either. It is the case that I want to draw, that I wish I was good at art, right? But I don't really take any steps to get better at art, but I still wish I was better at art. But if you really wanted to be good at it, you take steps to do it. Yeah. Not necessarily. Like, that doesn't follow for everything. You know what I mean? Like, people can envision that they would want a thing or regret not having the thing, and then time work. But how can you tell what people actually want to do? And if they mean something, they do it, right? Like, if someone really wants to lose weight, they take the steps to do it. They hire a personal trainer, whatever they got to do. People can say things, right? But I watch what they do. But hang on. Putting something into action doesn't mean it's not a thing you don't want. Like, there's lots of people I know who wish that that they were millionaires. They're not taking actions to become millionaires, but they still wish they had a million bucks for sure. And I don't disbelieve that they really wish they had a million bucks because they're not taking actionable steps to get it. Like, that to me doesn't follow. I do. You, you just instantly think that they're just. If you wanted to, you would. If you wanted to, you would. Yeah. If you wanted to. So, that's, that's how I view it. I don't know. I don't, I'm not as black and jade. I don't know. I'm not jaded, but I just look at the way the trends are going and I don't, I don't want to like lie or, you know, um, and I'm not, I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying like, to me, it would be lying if I said that I don't predict it's going to go this way. Yeah. It's going to get worse. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, but I would look at it as a series of is like, again, so when I answer the question, I say, well, I agree with you descriptively. You're correct. This is bad. This is the part of the red pill I agree with. Descriptively, this is bad. But then I get to the part where I'm like, "Yeah, I see the fire. Look at that big tower. It's on fire." Yeah, I see it, too. So, anyway, hey guys, you want to like help me put this out? And they're like, "No, that's, you can't just, you can't just put out a fire." But would you help put it out if you knew you were going to die in the process? And I think that's what a lot of conservative, like, you know, men are nine times more likely to commit suicide after a divorce. And the worst, um, the worst men that I saw actually telling men to gamble on non-virtuous women, right? You don't, women like virtuous right now. You don't know what they're going to do in 10 years. You don't know. Like, I, one of my biggest donors for the documentary, just don't buy a new car because it could break down. One of my biggest donors for the documentary, you know, he had a 30-year marriage and now he's going to work till he's dead because she decided she was virtuous. She didn't cheat the whole time. That's stupid. It's like saying don't buy a car because it might break down. I wouldn't say it's the same because if it, if a car breaks down, like you can fix it, you can buy a new car. Yeah. But you're not enslaved to the car for 18 years. Well, you are if you bought it with debt, right? You bought it with debt, you're still enslaved to it for X amount of time. But the thing is is like, look, but I wouldn't, if you're taking, look at risk mitigation. You're supposed to be looking at all these things and details. Like, you buy the new car not knowing that it won't break down because it could, but you have enough assured factors that it so likely won't that you feel okay doing it. So, like, trying to create this guarantee of, well, you don't really know if they're faking virtue right at this moment. It's like, they could be, but you're supposed to take all the evidence into consideration to make a better choice on that. Right. But two kids is 40% of your income for 18 years. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, that, I mean, I, again, like, nobody's answering the question, what's in it for the guy to take that risk? Well, if, because if she, if she, she might be virtuous now. What risk? Just the risk of marriage itself. That's it. Well, I, what I'm saying is the conservatives in general, they're not going to sell marriage to men even with so-called like virtuous women, um, because they're not answering, they're not giving men enough of an incentive. And it's easy to say like, we ought to do this. I think you could maybe say that like in your. Well, I would just mitigate the [ __ ] out of everything. So, you can get a prenuptual agreement. You can look for virtuous women. You can hyper-focus, but those can be like thrown out and they rarely are. And I talked to James Ston live about it, and he told me they rarely are. Do the divorce lawyers have an incentive to be honest about that or to lie? I don't think James Sexton was. I really like James. I have nothing, I have nothing against him, but, um, with lawyers, I just am a bit skeptical. And the reason being, um, they're mostly enforced. Like, I checked it out. They're mostly enforced. Prenuptual agreements are mostly enforced. I mean, that's what they say, right? Um, but I just think there's a lot of incentive for divorce lawyers to not be overly honest about that. And the other thing that lawyers will tell you is once you have a kid, that's really when it switches. So, you might be okay if you don't have a child, but if you have, but now you're moving away from the descriptive truth into like Pearl's truth. The descriptive truth and the facts on this one are not, are not on your side. Not when it comes to kids, because once it comes, prenups like prenups definitely work, right? No, but the, you might say they're enforced, but a lot of times the terms are changed. That's not uncommon. Sometimes the terms are changed. That's true. But most of the time prenups are enforced, and, uh, women who sign prenups are way less likely to violate their duties in the marriage because they don't want to lose whatever the thing is, right? But you don't know how the women are going to be in the future, right? So, like, there might be, like, we're talking about Gen Z women. I would say young millennials that are really on the market, and you have no, like, you can't say that they're less likely to divorce. Like, this is the, this is the first group of women that grew up on social media. So, if I had to predict it, I would guess that they would be worse because I don't think social media has made relationships well. They're going to get married less, like altogether. Marriage is decreasing, right? But even the ones that do get married, they can download a dating app, they can cheat on Instagram, like, you. And I'm not saying if a man wants to get married, I would never talk him out of. I think all of the incentives against secular marriage are in your favor. Like, I'm not disputing descriptively all of the, of the ideas for secular marriage are definitely in your favor. But they're, they're not in your favor when it comes to religious marriage. They're not in your favor. If it is the case, you keep the state out of it, got married by the church, had a prenuptual agreement, you can really protect yourself pretty well from most of these mitigating factors, and get that virtuous woman you're after, right? But there's no God in divorce court. And so, the worst divorce that I saw was from divorce court. The worst, no, the worst divorce that I, no, second, no, they were both religious, actually. One was, um, the two worst divorces I saw, one was from the same church that Michael Nolles goes to. How were they getting a divorce though if they got married through, through a party other than the state? They couldn't have gotten divorced, right? But once you have a kid, you're entered into the like, once, once you have a child, you're entered into the state regardless. Yeah. Yeah. So, for custody though. Yeah. And then for child support, correct? But, but here's the thing, it's interesting there. You can still write mitigation for that in a prenuptual agreement even when it comes to child support, and they're mostly enforced, right? You, you can, but again, what's the incentive? Well, the incentive that men would be receiving on the end is I don't believe is as you do that, um, that, you know, you just can't get married to women because there's no virtuous women. But assuming even there's a very small percentage, I would still recommend that men find virtuous women, get married to them, and the incentive that they get as families and this and that. Do I think you can't mitigate all those risks? I think you can and should. I'm in the business of predicting, right? I like to predict where things are going. And so when I do that, I have to put myself in someone else's shoes. And that's what I'm trying to get at when I keep asking you this question is what's in it for men? And I don't think until conservatives can, like, if I saw a difference, and we said earlier, there's no difference between liberal and conservative. I guess maybe I just don't understand what you're asking because I feel like I keep giving you a great answer, but then you just reass. So, what is the, what is the question you're actually, what are men getting out of marriage that would move them towards marriage? Well, I just, I was trying to, I thought you would agree with me on this actually. So, I was kind of, it's kind of interesting rubbing a back and forth like. Well, I agree with you on secular marriage. I think that that's generally speaking, I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell people to go and get secular marriage. I think that that's probably a recipe for disaster. But when I look at all the data, I look at shows me this. If you're heavily religious and you move towards a woman who has virtues, and you can associate the virtues with things like chastity, other things like this, and then you mitigate it by a keeping the state out of it, and then b having some type of prenuptual agreement, even a relationship agreement, right? Which are also enforceable. But if even if you got married through the state and you had a prenup, you're pretty, I mean, you're way ahead of the curve on this. Like, women are way more inclined to behave and everything else if that's in place. I totally agree that they're ahead of the curve and they're way better than a guy that didn't predict that at all. Um, I also agree that that's probably the better route to go if they're going to go down that route. I just don't think. What's your incentive to [ __ ] a bunch of different hoes? Just that it's fun. Yeah. Like, it's just fun. Come on. So, so I mean, it seems like it seems like all the incentives are in my. No, you. What's the incentive to have sex with a bunch of different women? Hose. Yeah, because men like hot women. Yeah. [ __ ] 5,000, you know. So, so I mean, so you're just saying that the incentive is like funsies me more funsies. I would say that's the incentive. Yeah, that's a ter. But that's a terrible message ultimately, right? But I'm not saying it's. Again, I'm in the business of predicting. Yeah. But even on the predictive message, by the time, by the time these men are in their 30s and 40s, they're not after funsies hoes. That's not what most men are at at that age. They want to settle down, have wife and kids, usually 10 years younger. Yeah. They want him 10 years younger. So, it, so it would make sense for them to [ __ ] around until she graduates. Yeah. But even if, even if I were to grant that to just like a 20 years, 20 years, go sew your wild oats. If ultimately you're going to get married, you're still going to be moving towards woman of virtue, prenup, all these. No, totally, totally. I totally agree. But like, I, I was just asking like, I think there's better incentive for men to get married than there is to play the field. For sure. Your STDs are a big problem, right? Huge problem. Other problem is women are [ __ ] crazy. They baby trap you. They do all kinds of crazy ass [ __ ] to you, right? But when you have men like Crowder who get the virgin wife with no, and I, and I, I mean, we know, we, I love Crowder, but like, he got the picture perfect wife that like they were on the cover of magazines, whatever, and she ruined his life. Men are going to look at that and you're going to say, "Well, what's the difference?" The difference is tactical mistakes which were made. The idea of prenuptual agreements, like let's say this, but it wasn't the prenup. It was the leaked footage to the press, right? That was probably the worst. Like, the worst part about a put in prenuptual agreements. They can't release things to the press even. Oh, yeah. Like that stopped. What? Ashley, it's not a joke. You really can. Ashley St. Clair was offered $10 million and she still couldn't shut up. I bet you that that wasn't in the agreement. I bet it wasn't in the agreement. And if she violated it and Elon Musk enforced it, I bet you it would get enforced. The thing is is like high profile, high status men, I've seen the types of agreements that they make with women, and they are insane. They're 300 pages long, cover their whole empire, covers all sorts of things. But even average guys can have a lawyer draft up a prenuptual agreement which will which will greatly mitigate this damage which is done if a woman is faking virtue. Can women fake virtue? Of course, right? Could they switch in 10 years? Could they just like lose their [ __ ] and become lunatics? Yeah. It's always a good idea to have that in. And here's the thing I would ask you back. Isn't it always better to have one than not? Yeah. It's like a gun, right? I, as I said earlier, if they're going to go down that route, I totally think the way men have every incentive to go down that route. I think the way that you're describing, if, if they're going to go down that route, they're going to go down that route. I think if the incentives were there, more men would do it. But I don't. Well, men want kids, so you, they're not, they don't. Having kids with hoes is a recipe for disaster. You know what I mean? Having kids with a wife and having prenuptual agreements, these types of agreements in place, the vetting for virtue in place. Way better. I mean, what are you going to do? Just go like impregnate some chick like Ashley St. Clair. How'd that work? It didn't work out there. Terrible idea. He has way too much money to not have a vetting process. I'm like, Elon, let me do it. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'll put the hose right here. And I'm like, but I, I just don't think that the idea of like, I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't. I think if men want kids, they have a right to go do that. And the way you're describing is great. Yeah. But I think I think that if I had to predict where things are going to go, I think it's going to disappear because especially from the middle class marriage, I think it's really just going to be for the elite and the rich. Well, I'm going to do everything in my power in the interim time as the lowly YouTuber who I can't do much to try to at least assist with the mitigation and the entire fall of the, you know, of

The West, which I I I actually still love the West. Yeah. And I still love the country that I'm in, surprisingly. I still do. And the people who are in it. I don't want to see men, uh, suffer horrid, you know, these kind of horrid fates, which happen when there is actually a lot of mitigation they could do to take care of that.

And then when you say there's no selling point, it's like, I hear the opposite. When I see the guys are like, "Oh yeah, I spent my 20s and 30s doing drugs, getting high and banging chicks. Every one of them ends up in front of that old rugged cross going, 'I wish I hadn't done that,' and had instead focused on a family." You say, "I've met some players who say the opposite." Where are they? I haven't met them. They're not in my discourse. Yeah, you have. I mean, um, like Troy Francis, he's a happy guy. Oh, come on. He's alto fe. He's a feminist. Thought through. He admitted to me live that he was absolutely a feminist. It's like, yeah, I've told you before, left-wing men, they're the primary beneficiaries of promiscuous women because they want that.

Well, I think that the only solution to feminism is more feminism. When women start getting treated like men and having the consequences that men have, like that's when I I think, and you might think otherwise, but I think that's— No, I agree with that. I don't think that's more feminism, though. I think it's just I I think that the idea of of female accountability went from "they're a witch, burn them" to men accountability to to now like they can do no wrong, right? And I I I'm I'm think necessary and it's the only way to fix ultimately what this issue is is allowing accountability to happen. But I don't think that that has anything to do with feminism. I think it has to do with patriarchy. Good patriarchies allow for female accountability. And we've just like gotten away from that because of the simp, the what simple I call it, sympic. You call it. Yeah.

So, so what would you if you were in charge? What would you— Oh, I don't make prescriptive statements. I just look at things that are burning and say, "Let it." You know what I mean? You're you're the prescriptor. So, back so back to prescriptions, the describer. You're the prescription. What was the what was the question? You're a man. That's what you should be doing. That's right. That's right. That's fair. What's the uh what's the question? So like if you were in charge, like what would you do? I would start a top-down propaganda campaign. If I was the unilateral like dictator of the United States government, I would start a top-down propaganda campaign and spend about 10% of my GDP on it, tearing down every single billboard and erecting ones all over the nation, tearing down every bit of LGBTQ, pro-feminist, uh, you know, ideology anywhere I could find it. Replace it with the family unit everywhere you looked and do a mass promotion of this, right? Everywhere they were starting when they were in their school years. And I would do it. I've run it for 30 years and I guarantee you a lot of this problem would begin to shift very, very, very quickly. So that's the very first thing that I would start with. Uh, if you wanted like more prescriptions than that, I would get rid of gay marriage. I would get rid of no-fault divorce. I would get rid I mean, the amount of things that I would get rid of unilaterally day one would be overwhelming.

Would you ever— Sorry. Would you ever, um, run for office? Because you actually have like a real background unlike most YouTubers, you know. Yeah, I would I would I think people would actually vote for you. You wouldn't run. I would get shot. I think I I really believe that I would. I think I would. Well, the thing is is like I would show up to to these debates, right? And I would cut— Oh my god. Yeah. I think I would get very— Did you run for the entertainment? Yeah. I think I would get very popular very quickly. But the thing is is like I I think I would get shot. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And I also think that what I do right now is in some ways more effective. The Crucible acts as like a special forces. We can get where people aren't and deliver those messages to like Tommy Lauren and the rest of them, which I agree. Look, here's the thing for the audience because this kind of turned into a debate. We descriptively agree on a lot. We really do. It's the prescriptions that we start to that's where we really start to deviate. Where I'm like, look, I think we can do some stuff to start to put this out and that men collectively have way more power than you think. I'm blackpilled. You're right. I know you're just blackpilled. But we got to try to got to try to bring it. You're not. I'm not. I'm because when I hear the feedback, when I hear the feedback from thousands from the thousands, thousands of people contact me, it's the opposite. They're like, "Look, when I shifted my priority to start looking for the things I consider virtue to be, I started to see that there's a whole different arena of women who actually are available." I didn't know what, you know, what I was even what I was even really trying for. So, I think you're right. It's a matter of goals. What's goal one? I think I think men do want to have a family. And I don't think that playing the playing the field is not very satisfying for very long. Like, oh, it's exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. One for what, one year, two years, and then okay, that's old. You know what I mean? So, yeah, they tend to want to gravitate towards success in family ultimately. And this is every one of these major red pillers I talk to on the side tell me this. So, do you know what? I'll tell you what blackpilled me with that. I mean, there is just a lot of um people that say they want monogamy, um, like commentators and stuff, a lot of them are cheating on their wives. Like a lot. Of course. And so it's like, same thing with preachers, right? They'll be like, "Homosexuality is wrong." And then they get caught sucking a dick in a parking lot. No. No. No. No. Exactly. So it's like if that's what they wanted, why is it like why aren't they doing it? Yeah. So it kind of I won't lie, blackpilled me even more. Yeah. So how are you not blackpilled with like you do? Probably because I don't cheat. That's right. You don't cheat on my wife. Not you. But like like not with that. I meant with the eight-hour debates you do. How do you— Sorry, I'm like because I listen, I try to listen to the totality of the collective of people contacting after and a lot of them are actually women and they're like, "Look, there's actually a lot you say here that's that's pretty hard to get away from when it's when it's kind of logically explained." And you know, like a lot of them actually start with me and my husband got into a fight over over this and, you know, you're kind of right about it. The thing is is, um, I understand the idea of asking the question which feels unanswerable, like, what do we do about the fact that descriptively, you're right, there's less virtuous women likely than there are men in much smaller numbers, right? And more men are going to want to get married than than are going to be able to get married to good women. But here's the thing, classically in history, you know this as well, very few men ever got to reproduce anyway. That's true. It was very, very small the amount of men who ever got to reproduce in the first. So, we're not really all that far off anyhow. That's totally. I almost think it's like nature correcting itself. It is. Well, it I call it the great correction. The birth rate is great. It's part of a great correction. The thing is, you're like, "What do you do about a problem which is correcting itself?" For me, I'm like, "Don't be blackpilled because there's still millions and millions of good women." There really are. Well, I'm optimistic for my life, but I just I look at the trends and I'm like, well, I I think this is where it's go. Like, I've had women also contact me and say, you know, things, but I just don't believe them because I've seen because you're so blackpilled. Yeah. No, I've seen women say things and like, how often do we really mean it? When you look and you're right, when you look at the trends, there's a lot there. Southern said things and she banged Destiny. I know. But there is a lot there. Blue-eyed blonde Arian. But hang on. Hang on. In my defense. In my defense. Yeah. Go. No. Go ahead. Go. Haven't I been right about basically everything I've ever told you to do? No, I know you've been right about a lot. So, I hope you're right. I'm not been right about— I didn't mean to turn it into a debate. I thought we were going to love debates. What do you mean? But but yeah, the thing is is, um, we do actually agree on a lot of the trends and how a lot of them are going to be going for a little while, right? But where I deviate is like, there seems to be, yes, there is a correction going on. Most men traditionally were never able to reproduce anyhow. And ultimately, we're in a position right now where yes, you can you you actually can find virtuous women and you should probably have as many children with them as you can. Outbreed the other side, completely destroy them in every mechanism. But it's going to take a while. It's not going to be fast. So, but what's your like, what about the men that the women don't select for marriage? What are they supposed to do? The same thing that men always did when they weren't selected. The thing— Well, the same things that men always did when they weren't selected. They joined the military. They became celibate. This type of thing. And that was most tough. That was most men. That's a tough sell. They're going to just— How is it a tough sell when that's all of human history? So, you don't get to reproduce anyways. And you're telling the guys, be celibate or bend and not reproduce. Like, one, they don't get, they get to watch. But this refutes your argument, not mine. You agree with me that throughout all of human history, if we look at it, correct? Correct. Most men could not reproduce. So why all of a sudden are they supposed to— Pearl? Well, what? No. What I'm saying, I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't. I know you're going to you're going to make you're going to make fun of me. Yeah, they couldn't, but they never could. Some guys are selected for sex, but they're not selected for children. Yeah. Like the women will abort their kids. So those guys, like, what's the incentive? You get to be celibate the rest of your life or you get to bang. What was their incentive 300 years ago? Um, well, it probably wasn't as easy, right? So, well, yeah, so now they can just dial on Instagram. Well, before you didn't have monogamy. So, I mean, now women are going to have to make these select— and they had to, right? For a long time, especially when they were social pariahs. But it's like, you can't go, well, so for some reason, modern man needs to have more choices than his ancestors 400 years ago had. It's like, why? The truth of the matter is, it's like attraction is attraction. Resources are resources. Correct. Women are going to go for men they're attracted to and have resources. Well, that's why that's why I said I think marriage is going to just be for the upper class. No, it's never. Well, look, it's I think it's disappearing. I think it's disappearing from the middle class. It's not disappearing for the poor and it's not disappearing. Well, it is actually. It's more disappearing for the rich now. The rich, it's more disappearing for. I'd have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure it's more common for the upper class. The upper class. Yes. The very rich, no. The very rich, no. Upper class, sure. But the upper class would now be what you would consider upper class was middle class. Well, I guess what do you what do you like what bracket are you talking about? Yeah. So, when I'm talking about the super rich, right, or elitist rich, um, we're talking about a million plus dollars per year. Okay. Right. That's a very small, very, very small number. Now, what you're talking about is like the college grads with a combined income of, you know, 125 or 130 plus. Yes, that is the case that there's trends and upticks from and even those marriages staying longer. They have more longevity, even, uh, I think it's because of, um, other factors, but I won't even get into it. Uh, but ultimately, I don't think it's the idea of marriage is only going to be for the overclass. Well, my point is more, a lot of men aren't selected for it anyway. Yeah. Right. So, but for those men, like they're like, it's not going to be a selling point to them to be celibate forever. They're just going to run through hoes. No, I— Well, listen. Listen. Well, I agree. But they're getting selected then, right? For sex. But like they'll just abort their kids. Yeah, I know. They're not getting selected for reproduction. But most men never were selected for reproduction. I'm not saying, but like my point is, you know, you're just not going to sell them on celibacy forever. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. You wouldn't you wouldn't sell them on celibacy forever, right? But you could sell women on celibacy forever if it were the case that they thought— Oh, yeah. If it if it if it were the case that they thought they'd become social pariahs. How do I know? Because I can look back a hundred years and see it. They got the scarlet [ __ ] letter. They got shaved bald. They got messed up. They got turned into social pariahs for doing it. Yeah. I I just don't see that happening in anytime soon. Why? Why? Um, I mean, women are putting their buttholes on the internet and now get to be Jesus preachers. But again, if you can go, as we saw, if you can go from the worst societies on earth to some of the most straight-laced, it's like we've seen that happen multiple times. I hope it does. I just have to go off of what I've seen in my lifetime, right? And I've heard cons like I I'm an OG conservative Daily Wire watcher and I felt a bit lied to because they would kind of sell me that this is coming and then time went by and there's no indication that it is. Well, they weren't moving towards anything either. Well, I mean, totally true. Yeah. Like I would love to see and look, you got to debate these. Why would they let me there? But they don't like you bigger. Descriptively, it is the case that again, most of these things you're saying are true. Yeah, but it's it's we know this. Now, where do we go? Do I have all the answers? [ __ ] no. I don't have all the answers. Not even close. But at least we should be looking at them. Those guys won't even look at them. Mhm. They won't even look at a single one of them as as issues. They're just like, "This is just isn't even happening." You know, even, um, who's the the latest one? The, uh, the guy who did all the the tea stuff, u Matt Walsh, even he, as he's starting to kind of move a little bit more towards this, even he's still won't acknowledge that many of the fundamental things you're talking about when it comes to hypergamy and things like this are in fact happening via the trend lines. I agree with that, but the question becomes, how do we combat that and what do we do about that? I do think propaganda can be a very useful tool, and I think that the Christian right has way more at their disposal than you think, especially with legal legalization, criminalization of various things. Look at what decriminalizing drugs did. You think that that didn't make marijuana popular everywhere when they decriminalized it? They were like, "Nope, it's only going to be the people who still smoke marijuana and now they're just going to be able to not go to jail for it." It didn't do that. It completely popularized it everywhere. It popularized it everywhere. So, if you decriminalize prostitution and of things like that, does the same [ __ ] It popularizes it. I know. But there's just so much in like I still think back to $8 or $2. I don't think there's any incentive for them to do any of these things because they either need the female voting block or they need the $8 from women. That's why I don't predict. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, the Daily Wire, I'm sure their biggest donors, um, are either— Well, I'm sure there's rich donors. I know there's like the brothers or whatever. Um, brothers. I know there's some brothers that fund the Daily Wire. I don't remember. It's the Koch brothers, not maybe. I don't I don't know. Some some rich guys, but I would guess they get a good amount of money or a significant enough amount of money from women somehow. I don't know how. I don't know if it's their memberships, their documentaries, the housewives they're selling to. There's some because they're not being honest. And whenever I see people like lying, I can always guess that there's a woman involved. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. Somehow a woman, like the ads for, I mean, you know on YouTube, the ads for women, it's like you get like two female viewers and you can make so much money off of that. Yep. Yeah. Just cuz the demographic, like, do I want to make 20% of my income or 80%? Like, most people are just— Yeah. I think though. Yeah. That's why I'm blackpilled. I'm like, why would they do it? I would just end in the conversation this way. I would say, don't be so blackpilled. While it's true that the that a lot of the data trends look bad, I can show you times in history where they've looked a lot worse. Really? What time in history? You mean for for which nation? Sure. No, I'm just— Go ahead. So, I mean, if we were to go back and we were to look at, um, the Soviet Union, for instance, right? And we saw what happened to their population. They decimated it with abortion, right? You can see that there's recoveries that went on and are still going on. They're still ongoing. And it's like some of these things have a way of equalizing themselves over time, you know? They they just do. So it's like, yeah, it sucks that you're in the generation that this happens to, but you can still make good political progress towards solutions to these issues. I hope you're right. Yeah. You know, I hope. I just wouldn't bet on it. Yeah. I just, if I was a betting woman. Well, not with that attitude, you know. All right. Let me go through super chats really quick. Do you mind scrolling up? Yeah. Wow. Your your people are very generous. This is the most super chats we've gotten in a while. Yeah, they're, uh, they're awesome. It's because I haven't been over grifting them lately. Usually I'll go on and I'll and you know, I haven't even got I've just got home from my trip last night and then made the trip out here. Okay. So, I haven't even had a chance to go live, explain to him my trip, all the grifting because it was like, well, I got to go out and talk with Pearl. Now, it's the Pearl Davis, Andrew Wilson debate, I guess. So that's what happened. I'm sorry. I'm I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Um, if liberal women or Coca-Cola, conservative women are Diet Coke. Go down. Candace Owen's husband is worth over $150 million. She doesn't have to work. She could stay home with her kids, but she doesn't. Candace is a grifter in the to the ultimate degree. Go down. Uh, feel like the red pill was blown out of proportion. And now a lot of red pill communities have become the equivalent of the woke left. Some have. That's true. Um, Nathan for the Grift. Thanks. Clue Studios. You were great on Punchy TV. Andrew was great on Pierce. What's Punchy TV? I don't know. Brian Wolf, thanks for the big hundred, though. Yeah, thank you, Brian Wolf. Crucible crew. Um, after One Sheep, not even 30 yet, and have a wife and three kids at 20. The differences, uh, to the next is that we took a commitment at the church very seriously. The actual wedding day activities were the least of the concern. Yeah, but Pearl thinks she's faking. Pearl thinks she's going to change on a dime. In 5 years, it's over, buddy. I've seen I've seen very religious women change on a D. I've seen. Look, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm just saying, don't you think that that's a better mitigation for risk? Ultimately, that's what we're looking at right now. No, I I agree with you on that, but, um, we're just looking for risk mitigation, right? All right. It's pretty awesome getting both of you to chat. I love you both. Don't tear each other's heads off. Oh, it's all in good fun. Pearl's been a a close personal friend and will remain. So, um, now get Jake. Yeah, you guys are the best. Um, now get Jake and Jim Bob in the same room. I only need to go to one place. That's true. Doug MPA agrees with you. That's my moderator. He says, "Gen Alpha men are going to be based. The women are going to still be—" Gen Alpha men are, um, going to disengage from the US women and get passports. Go down. Possible. Um, Andrew is an absolute legend. Protect this man at all costs. Alex B, usually agree with Andrew, but his argument just do it broke kind of sounds like conservative women. Hardly. That was not my argument at all. Alex B was just do it. Okay, this one's going to go for me. It's all right. Pearl, you're too blackpilled. I'm single and depressed. Be, uh, be lucky to have what Andrew is describing. Um, I believe, um, Ken Kim Cam says, "I believe what Pearl's saying here is try convincing power to give up power. Women in society today are drunk with power, is her point." Um, Peter RT, wouldn't I wouldn't dispute that. Is Andrew an alpha, beta, or other? Ultimate alpha, right? Yeah. I don't go for the the alpha hierarchy, but not not my thing. No, I know it's tough. Um, the but of course I'm a [ __ ] No, I'm kidding. Okay. Um, love Andrew and Pearl, but I agree with Pearl. Um, ways to protect yourself. Yes, Andrew. The uphill battle to protect yourself isn't appealing or an incentive for marriage. Peter Ortiz, Marry Me, Pearl. What's— Well, hang on. I think, um, like, it's very bizarre to me because I know that I did not make that argument. So I don't know why that's what you're going after. Well, I think it was my argument was descriptively this is correct. Prescriptively it's wrong. And and you would have to concede that these mitigations do work and that if men want to have families, they are going to have to marry women. What kind of women are you going to marry? So I don't even know what's what's there to dispute. Very cool to see two greats here redeeming the culture. I think virtue can be discerned. Knowledge of the past, friends, family, social media. It's very telling with good counsel can determine and a PI. Um, Pearl's point is example. If 85% of men are marriageable, society still surviving. And 85% of women are not marriageable, birth rates are low. That is not incentive. That is not enough incentivizing women to turn things around. They would need to, right? Without propaganda. Hold on. Can I read the end? Then you can go. Without propaganda, you can't change the culture. And controlling majority of advertisements, you can't change the culture. Women's buying power controls advertising in my opinion. A collapse is a must. Yeah. So you got a couple things wrong. One, yes, propaganda can change the buying culture of women. We've seen it happen before. This was done during the Vietnam War, in fact, and during the Korean War. So yes, I can look at wartime propaganda and see how much you can change the patterns of how women behave and how men behave. Also, the the second point that I would mitigate off of when you say, "Well, wait a second. If 85% of of women aren't getting married or having children, it's like, well, that's a self-correcting problem then. If they're not having children, not reproducing, it would still be the men who would have the virtuous women. They'd be reproducing. Those would be the men who would be controlling the future, right?" Women exile liberation is fun if you're single. Um, a pre-independent Aqua says a previous tenant to gay rights advocacy group. The group said they didn't want gay marriages, but this was still their way to fight the tax benefits of Christian advocacy groups. This was in Canada. Canada. Um, Doug MPA says the Wilks brothers fund the Daily Wire. Crimson King, blackpill is the— I'm sorry, I am blackpilled. I'll own it. Proceeds to state, uh, the house is on fire and watches it burn down and complain about the water, um, with a water house hose right next to them. Well, I mean, the question is, is there a reward for doing that? And right now, I just don't see that there's a reward. Like, if you stop it from crashing and burning, what do they get? They have the building not fall on their head. No, I meant like for them to help their neighbor's house that's on fire. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like like right now, society doesn't reward you for doing like tireless jobs and like like stopping everything from crashing and burning. So, there's no incentive. So, you definitely get rewarded for doing dangerous ass jobs for sure. Money. Well, then why aren't young men doing them? Because there's other, there's— Well, they are doing them. Trades are making a huge comeback. Like there, there's no doubt that that's the case. But I meant like younger men are dropping out of the workforce and Yeah. And for participation. Yeah. And everybody's asking why. And I'm saying they're ask— it's because they're asking the question, what's in it for me? I'm not going to get a wife. I'm not like, why do it? Yeah. Well, I think it's because they live at home for longer periods of time and don't have to get a job is why you see less of them participating. That would be the the big correlate I would see. But when they are participating, they're definitely moving towards much more dangerous jobs than they were in the past. Well, I would— No, but they're staying at home because they don't see an incentive to move out, right? What's the or they can't afford to move out. That's a big one. Like they they tend to stay at home like 22, 23, 24 because it's really expensive. I mean, I I talked to younger men on in the Discords all the time. They're like 21, 22 and they're like, I'm just putting a bunch of money away so I can move out. Yeah. Um, Rachel Rachel Wilson says, "Hedenism hedenism gets old quick. People want meaning and purpose. Men have more power than they realize. The long lens of history proves that the current situation will not last forever because it's unsufferable. Love you both. We love you, Rachel. Unsustainable, Pearl. Oh my gosh. Unsufferable. Oh, sorry. My bad. Sorry, guys. Um, take away women's rights. That's the answer. Not all women. Not all women. YouTube friendly. Um, Punchy Oh, Punchy TV. That's Jesse Lee Peterson's show. Love you both. Yeah, that was fun. I really enjoyed that. Yeah, the one guy said he didn't agree with prenups and I just called him a s. Amazing. Um, okay. Go on. Punchy TV is Jesse Lee Peterson's network. Um, look at the support. They're throwing the grift. Lord, could you, um, where there is grift, there is still hope. It might take a while, but starts with taking not one step back. Correct. Is that it? Yep. Okay. Thank you guys. That was very generous. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate it very much. Um, well, that was a fun back and forth. Did you have fun? Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Thanks to the Crucible crew for coming out, showing support tonight. Looked like, uh, you're at four and a half, 5K viewers, something like that. Yeah, this was awesome. Good. Um, thanks so much for coming. You've been a longtime friend of the show, so I do appreciate you coming on. Do you have any final words? Do you want to tell my blackpilled audience? I will tell you guys this. Obviously, I'm completely right in everything I said. Pearl got totally [ __ ] blown out. It was super easy and she deserved every bit of it. Subscribe to The Crucible. Get there right now. It's [ __ ] awesome. We do I, you know, again, um, descriptively, she's right about most everything that she's saying. I'm not disputing any of that. So, it's where we move into the prescriptions where we start to tangle up. And I think if more of those right-wing conservatives would do that, Pearl would hate them far less. Yeah. Thank you so much. Also, um, thank you for I feel like you get a lot of [ __ ] for being friends with me, so I do appreciate tons. Yeah. So, I do appreciate. They're always like, "What are you going to roll over on Pearl?" Well, you know what they do? They're always like, "I don't ever see you debate any of her ideas." What did I just do? Yeah. And but but for some reason, if I do that, that means I must preclude any sort of interpersonal relationship or friendship with her. Uh, who she's been friends with my— It's like, "Yeah, right. Screw that." Yeah. Are you going to denounce me? No. Yes. Yes, but I'm going to do a big announcement when I get home. It'll take me a couple of weeks to get it all together. So, just wait for it. It's coming. Also, guys, um, Andrew filmed some content for the behind the paywall, which is how to be a real Christian conservative and not a fake one, right? I didn't do the fake one yet. Oh, you didn't do the fake one. I got to the other one first. Oh, okay. How to be a real Christian, which is basically me saying, "I don't know. Why'd you ask me? Terrible." The I wanted the prescriptions right for behind the scenes, right? Okay, guys, um, look at all the support we're— Oh, I read that. Okay. Thanks for watching, guys. Please like the video, subscribe to the channel, and I will talk to you guys next time. Bye-bye.