Transcription
You either take care of this knowing what that meant or people that you care about are going to get hurt.
Later in this video, we're going to be speaking with a prison warden who worked at the very prison where Jeffrey Epstein died. But before we get into that, we need to dive into the latest developments that are raising even more questions. Over the past few weeks, something massive has been unfolding in real time. The United States government has released millions of documents tied to Jeffrey Epstein. And as people dig through them, the story is only getting more complicated and honestly more disturbing. We're talking about three and a half million pages, I mean thousands of videos and hundreds of thousands of images released by the Department of Justice. And even now, lawmakers are saying there could be millions more pages that haven't been fully reviewed or released yet. So what does that mean? I mean, it means the public is essentially crowdsourcing one of the biggest investigations of all time. And naturally, that comes with chaos.
And then there's the part of the story that never seems to go away. Like, what actually happened the night Jeffrey Epstein died? Because even now, years later, that question is still wide open in the public's mind. We know the official conclusion was that Epstein died by suicide in a federal jail in 2019. But we also know that cameras outside his cell were apparently malfunctioning and guards later admitted to falsifying records. And I want to talk about that a little bit more because the FBI was actually looking into two broken cameras outside the cell where Jeffrey Epstein died. And on top of that, there were reports that at least one camera in the hallway had footage that was completely unusable. Now, there was other footage captured in the area. But the cameras that mattered most, the ones directly outside of his cell, either weren't working properly or didn't give a clear picture of what happened.
Now, there are reports that Tova Noel, a former federal correctional officer that was on duty at the prison with the night Epstein died, uh, is being asked to take part in a transcribed interview with the House Oversight Committee. But there's another part of the story that people don't talk about enough, and it has to do with Epstein's relationship with prison itself. Because when you actually go back and look at his previous conviction in 2008, it doesn't exactly resemble what most people think of when they hear the word prison. Many believed Epstein received what many have described as an extremely lenient deal, one that reportedly allowed him to leave jail for up to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, go to his office, and utilize a private work space. Some say it was a level of freedom that is almost unheard of for someone convicted of soliciting a minor for prostitution. And what makes that even more interesting is when you actually hear Epstein talk about his own experience. Take a look at this clip.
"I'm glad you asked that question. I was in solitary confinement. Unbe again some of the public stories about the wonderful time I had in jail and my work release which didn't come till months after. I'd been there since June in an 8x10 cell. So in jail, I was in a place what's called the special housing unit, which is for the roughest, toughest, meanest people. They put me there, they said, for my own protection."
For most people, Epstein's death raises a lot of questions because on paper, it's easy to call something a protocol failure. But inside a prison like that, what does that actually mean? To get a clearer picture, we spoke with someone who worked inside that exact facility. So, I am joined today by Kathy Lina Weaver, who is the former prison warden at the New York Metropolitan Correctional Center. Uh Kathy, thank you so much for joining me today.
"My pleasure."
Now, um Jeffrey Epstein was being held at the Special Housing Unit, uh at New York MCC. And so, what I'm kind of curious about is can you describe the layout of of the shoe? Um how easy would it be to access an inmate?
"The special housing unit at MCC New York uh actually is uh got a separate section that was constructed specifically for the Guantanamo 6 and extensive uh security was added to that section. Now you have to understand I was retired after uh during the time that Epstein was there. However, if he was housed in that particular part of the unit, uh it is very very difficult for anyone to to get to that area. It's a complete separate set of security uh that you go through once you get into the special housing unit."
And where are the guards positioned relative to the inmates?
"They have uh a desk uh what I would call in the center of the unit where uh they can see uh most of the unit except you know you have to go down the ranges to see the individual cells."
Uh reports say that the guards at the time of Epstein's death were browsing the internet and may have even fallen asleep. Uh, and I'm just wondering if if that's a common occurrence uh in the profession of someone like a guard at the at the shoe.
"Yep. And and unfortunately, human beings get complacent. And it's it's wrong on every level. Uh we we have, you know, lieutenants that make rounds uh to make sure that things like that don't happen. Uh but they do. And I and I would be lying to the public if I said they don't. Uh the officers if they follow their post orders are to make 30 minute uh irregular rounds. That means not at the same time every 30 minutes but sometime during that 30 minutes and visually inspect every cell put eyes on every inmate and that's in addition to the five counts that we do every 24 hours uh that are official."
But with these guards being about 15 feet away from Epstein's cell and not making their rounds for hours, is that an isolated failure or that that's something that happens quite quite a bit?
"I would I would not say that it hap that that it was hours. Um if they missed a 30 minute check, um unfortunately I'd have to say after 25 years of experience, it would not surprise me. But not ours. I I I just uh don't I would never believe that that would happen."
And and I'm I've read that report say by late July there are a lot of cameras in the unit that stopped working um specifically the cameras that were right outside of of Epstein's cell. What what do you make of that?
"Unfortunately uh when I was there we had a camera issue and they didn't get fixed in a timely manner because of the manpower. Uh there was only two communications techs for the entire building and there's cameras everywhere. And the communications techs aren't just responsible for the cameras, but they're responsible for the radios and and and all all forms of communication, visual, audio, everything. And it it does not surprise me that some of the cameras may be out. Uh but I don't believe that all of them were out. Now, if they were out on his range, uh that uh that was not uh probably uh smart to put him on a range that had a camera out. If they knew the cameras were out, move him to another range where the cameras are on. But that's me, you know, uh Monday morning quarterbacking the situation. Again, I wasn't there at the time."
Now, uh, the DOJ, uh, when they released, uh, the three and a half million files, uh, what came out with that, uh, was footage of inside, uh, the shoe, the special housing unit. Um, and at around 10:40 p.m., um, you can see on the right hand side of the screen, um, there is an orange figure moving upstairs. Now, reports have said that, you know, this was a prison guard or an inmate carrying orange linen up the stairs. Now, at 10:40 p.m., I is that a natural occurrence? Are guards carrying linen to other prisoners during that time?
"Well, first of all, if they were wearing orange, they were not an officer. They were what's called an inmate orderly. And uh depending and and no uh certainly 10:40 p.m. uh is not a time that the orderly should be out and working. However, uh they're in their secure unit. Let's say the laundry was late in getting back to the unit and and it had to be distributed. Um the officers were, you know, were watching the orderlies. They the orderly, in other words, wasn't going to go anywhere. So, if he were taking items um and and you know, stacking them in front of doors to be distributed once the officer with the keys came, um I would not say that it uh it it would be out of the ordinary. Uh not not uh appropriate practice. That probably should happen uh before about 9:00 p.m. Uh everybody should be secured in their cells by 9:00 p.m. But again, since I did not see the video, I can't exactly tell you what was going on."
Uh now, if all prisoners should be securely in their cells by 9:00 p.m. Um, and the DOJ obviously knows this and and knew this while they were conducting their investigation. and still uh no criminality was found amongst the guards. Is that a conclusion that you find satisfying?
"You know, the the officer office of inspector general and the FBI conducted their investigations. I I followed that news as closely as I could uh as a private citizen and you are correct. Uh they they were not charged. I think they may not have been charged criminally, but if they did not do their 30 minute rounds, they may have been uh found guilty on the by the Bureau of Prison side of the house uh in uh in in in our discipline system. And that may be uh letters of reprimand, that may be uh time without pay. um the the the fact that they weren't found criminally guilty does not mean that they were not held accountable. And again, that would be some type of information you could be able to get through the Freedom of Information Act."
And you know, I just want to go back to the cameras really quickly. Um because it seems like there are some staffing issues uh over at the New York MCC. And you know, I'm just wondering what the protocol is. you know, when a camera goes down, especially in a unit like the shoe, um what's the what's the, you know, proper standard operating procedure for when that happens? Does it get, you know, attended to immediately considering that, you know, it happened months before Epstein's death? I'm just wondering what the timeline is for a camera, you know, in a in a very highly guarded facility um to go down. I mean, how does that how does that get fixed or replaced?
"You know, a a a camera going down, technology uh just does that kind of thing. Now, should there be a priority on fixing cameras in the special housing unit? Yes. Uh I don't know whether it was it was uh equipment that was faulty, it was old, and there wasn't money uh to replace it. Uh, you know, that has been an issue uh at facilities, not just MCC New York, but across the Bureau of Prisons. Uh, so many of our facilities are so old and the equipment is so expensive to replace. Uh, it would not surprise me that um it didn't happen at at many other locations. This happened to be one that uh was at the worst time kind of like a perfect storm. the worst time um that it could go down and not get fixed. And that's what happened."
And in Epstein's cell itself um you know he he had access to a variety of linens that could have been used to create a noose and is that something that is you know again a standard operating procedure inside the shoe. Are are inmates allowed to have you know objects to where they could hurt themselves especially since he was placed on suicide watch?
"Once they come off a suicide watch, they're treated like any other inmate. And I will tell you, those cells are drafty. Um, and if you don't have a sheet and a blanket, and some of them at times you get two blankets, um, you're you're not going to be very comfortable. Uh, and so to to say that he shouldn't have a sheet and blanket um is is not a is not something we do. We we don't um make them uncomfortable and and freeze them out um just because they're an inmate that we just don't do that."
Um and not to interrupt you, but even when they're on suicide watch, they have a suicide blanket. They still get a blanket. They're not in there, you know, naked in a cold, you know, metal and concrete cell, you know. Ju it's just they have it's a special blanket and in just a regular cell it's a a wool and cotton blanket.
"Right no I don't what I'm not intimating that uh he was placed in a in a cold cell you know naked or anything like that I you know I'm just saying that when when an inmate does come off of suicide watch um there isn't any you know further watching obviously I know they've been they've come off of suicide watch but there aren't any precautions taken um especially since he came off after 36 hours. Um that you know there aren't any precautions taken just to verify that the inmate is not still in that state of mind."
"No, it you're either you're either on suicide watch, you're on 15-minute checks which are similar to suicide watch and in in those cases you're moved to a different cell. uh or you'll or you're just like every other inmate and you're checked 30 minute uh intervals."
And so what is the procedure for an inmate coming off of suicide?
"You have to be cleared by the psychologist first of all and this is after you know someone who is trained and educated to know the signs of suicide have have spent time they've interviewed them and and again the person's been under constant one-on-one observation for these 36 hours. Now, what I said at the time of his suicide was, 'Anyone can get themselves placed on suicide if they if they know how to play the game, and anybody can get themselves off of suicide watch if they know how to play the game.' Um, he he was by no means an ignorant individual. Uh, he was smart enough that if he wanted to come off of suicide watch, he could act the part, so to speak, long enough. If if the psychologist doesn't have the justification, they just can't keep them in there like that forever under suicide watch."
When you are doing these rounds or when the guards are doing these checks, how how close do you get to the inmate? Um and you know what what kind of look do you get into their cell so you can see what they're doing? And what are you looking for?
"Well, uh, you you've got a window that's about, uh, 12 inches tall and about, oh, I'd say six or seven inches wide, and it's right in the center of the cell door. So, when you look into the cell, you can see the entire cell from, you know, all corners and everything because the cells aren't aren't, you know, really that big. Uh what you're looking at uh first of all you have to have an inmate in there because if you don't have an inmate in there somebody's escaped. Second thing you're live looking for is uh a a human a breathing you know uh that's why they can't sleep with their blankets up over their head. You know, some some skin something's got to be showing while they're sleeping um to let us know that they're there and that they're alive. Uh so if you're doing your rounds um after, you know, after many years of doing this and you shine a flashlight in there, you know if the person is is alive or dead for the most part, you know. Um and certainly if they have something tied around their neck and they've pulled themselves taut uh against their their bed uh frame or another, you know, some other piece of furniture. No, it's not it's a fixed furniture like a locker. Then then you're going to immediately know and you're going to call for assistance."
How easy would it be for someone uh outside not just of the shoe but also the New York MCC to gain access to a high-profile inmate like Jeffrey Epstein?
"I I'm going to I'm going to put myself out on a limb here and I'm going to say someone from the public impossible to get in the shoe and do anything. No, not happening."
And could you walk us through the process of, you know, let's say because it seems like you don't believe that um that anything happened to Jeffrey Epstein other than suicide. Um what would the process have to be for someone outside of the shoe to gain access to Jeffrey Epstein? Um and what would the process be for someone inside of the shoe to gain access to Epstein?
"All right, so let's let's let's make it uh make it very clear. If you work for the Bureau of Prisons, you can get into the shoe relatively easy. If you are the public, even I don't care if you're a family member, you're the attorney, or whoever you are, uh particularly at that time of night, you're not you're you're just it's absolutely not even going to get in the front door, let alone back into the special housing unit. It's just not going to happen. Now, uh if you work there, uh you know, whether you're medical, food service, uh warden, whoever you are, then you're going to have full right to come in to that unit at any time, day or night, because you work there. That's your place of employment, and you have a reason to be there."
Interesting. And and to to close us all off, Kathy, you've been fantastic. Thank you for your answers. Um what do you personally think happened to Jeffrey Epstein?
"Well, I will tell you what I told um your counterpart in 2019. First of all, I've never thought that he had the moral fortitude to do time. And if you want to believe in the conspiracy theories, the the best one that that I could come up with at the time, and and it it somewhat makes sense, but but I I don't like to believe these kind of thoughts, is that someone got a message to him through his attorney, because his attorney would be about the only person that was going to see him at the time, and said, 'You either take care of this knowing what that meant and make this problem go away or people that you care about are going to get hurt.' And you know that's a conspiracy theory and it's a crazy one. But that is if you want to if you want to hang your hat on on could it be something other than him just taking the chicken's exit out. um that would be the only way. And and and he was afraid of the ramifications. He was afraid of prison time. He was going to do all of his time in solitary confinement and there would be no $200 haircuts and there wouldn't be anything but that orange jumpsuit. And that was not the lifestyle he had led nor chose to lead. And he and he wasn't a spring chicken. It's not like, you know, he hadn't seen the the better half of his life on the other side. So that that is my two cents worth."
Kathy, thank you so much. You've been absolutely amazing. I appreciate your time today.
"Very much."
Thank you. That interview was extremely insightful. If you guys want to see more like it, please let us know in the comments because we read every single one. As always, I'm Jackson Buhai and I will see you guys in the next.