Meeting PAC 1 (10-02-2026)

Seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan. In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. Indeed, Allah commands justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that you may be reminded. Allah the Almighty has spoken the truth. In this blessed verse, which is in the 14th part, He says: Indeed, Allah commands justice, good conduct, and generosity to relatives, and He forbids immorality, bad conduct, and oppression. He admonishes you so that you may remember. Allah the Almighty has spoken the truth. Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim. Please introduce yourselves. Sir Abdul Samad, Addition from the Finance Department. Sir M. Sarfraz, DG Audit Works, Sir. Sir Shahzad Parvi, Deputy Director W&S Audit, Sir. Nafees Suhani, Sir, Audit Officer from W&S Audit, Sir. Ghulam Abbas, Chief Engineer Building, Central Zone, Lahore. Saima Ali, Special Secretary C&W. Syed Arshad Raza, Chief Engineer Building. Amir Mushtaq, SC Lahore. Syed Amir Hassan, Additional Secretary C&W. Mansoor Ashad, Chief Engineer Highway North. Dr. Asif, Chief Engineer Building South. Sir Naveed Ashraf, Chief Engineer Highway South. Okay, okay. Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim. Yes, thank you very much for coming. Before starting the meeting, thank you to DG Audit and your team. And what has been presented to the committee today will be very helpful for the entire committee, Sir, for you and your department. Thank you, Sir. Thank you very much. Thank you to the department as well, for the free and fair discussion that took place yesterday in the committee from C&W, and for the revised audit paras and working paper that has come today. Thank you to the C&W department and from the committee to C&W and their department, we also express our appreciation and congratulations. That with what open heart and what should be the basic procedure, in a professional manner, they committed and spoke yesterday in front of the committee. The committee appreciates them and congratulates them as well. Yes, let's start, Sir. Page one. Thank you very much, Sir. Thank you. Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim. Sir, Sir, the first para is Sir, which is 2.4.1.6. This para pertains to the Building Division, Nankana Sahib, Sir. In this, Sir, the department has paid for the item of fabrication of mild steel, Sir. And Sir, incorrect calculation of quantities was involved in this, Sir. And in this, Sir, the audit had pointed out a recovery of 3.1219 million, Sir. Out of this, Sir, approximately 9 lakh rupees have been deposited, Sir, and the balance recovery is 2.416 million, Sir. Okay. How much recovery has been made in this? Sir, in this, Sir, 9 lakh rupees have been recovered, Sir. Sir, the department, with the kind permission of the Chair, with a minute, a minute. Regarding this, yesterday, the C&W gentleman spoke here in the house, he said that I will check why this happened below specification, and I will inform the house in detail about this. So, we will continue from there, Department Sector. Yes, Sir. Sir, in this, Sir, there was a recovery of 3.2 million, as the audit people pointed out, and 8 has been recovered. As far as the specifications are concerned, some of them were within the permissible limit. Regarding the technical aspect with regard to 11%, our Chief Sir will inform you. With the permission of the Chair, permission of the Chair, I, I, I would like to request for a minute. Special Secretary Madam, if you could please read the STSC meeting held on 6/12/22. The department admitted to effect actual recovery. The committee directed the department to work out the actual recovery and effect it in the next running bill of the contractor. The para was deferred for recovery. So, this direction was clearly given by your department. This was in 2022. And it is a clear decision that actual recovery should be made and the para deferred. Today is 2025, not 2026. So, still, your recovery is partial. Yes, Sir. Sir, with your permission, I will answer this. Basically, in what was indicated, some of our permissible limits were within 6%, which is allowed to us. Regarding the 11% that was normally pointed out. Yes, Sir. Sir, Sir, I am not saying anything in the STSC direction that you are elaborating. They gave a clear decision that make actual recovery. Yes, Sir, we admit this now, and partial recovery remaining. No, no, listen. Now, the clarification you are giving, there is nothing like that in that STSC meeting. Sir, after that, if the pre-PSC, because after the STSC, the pre-PSC has happened now, hasn't it? The pre-PSC has happened now. We are your departmental Principal Accounting Officer, your Secretary, they are under STSC, so why has it not been abided by? Yes, Sir, we admit this para and we will ensure the recovery. The remaining technical aspect, after four years, you admit this, Sir. For the sake of repetition, we did contest this para. Audit was of the view. You contested. Where did you contest? Brother, your Principal Accounting Officer, the Secretary, gave the decision. He was present. What was contested in between? He said, make actual recovery. Sir, if contested, where did you contest, Sir? Sir, if permission is granted, I will slightly. Okay, add this to it. Okay. From this, it can be inferred that the previous STSC meeting headed by the Secretary of the Department was wrong. Sir, I would like to add a little here. Actually, Sir, when this was decided in STSC, it was said to make actual recovery. It was not said to make total recovery. We have effected actual recovery in it. Actually, Sir, please listen to me a little. There were six projects in this para that were clubbed. Out of these, for two projects, the steel had this recovery due. Their reports showed less. For the remaining four, there was no less recovery. Their reports were correct. This is why this delay occurred. Chief Engineer Sir, Chief, Chief Engineer Sir, please do not take us off track. You have written your latest status here. When we showed all the records from N, the audit people did not agree with us, so we said we will recover within 30 days. Listen to me, when you yourself have written this latest status, read it. Sir, that is the contention of the audit. This latest, this, this is not of the audit, this is made by your department. This is made by your department. You are not making actual recovery, and even according to the latest status you have given, recovery has not been made. Sir, in the latest status, we are requesting that we will make the remaining recovery in 30 days. No, we do not accept this. If not, then this is negligence of your department. No, when the steel was put in undersized, where was your department at that time? The audit people came and told you that the size of this steel is, why does your department allow it to be done like this in the first place? Sir, audits are held precisely so that if any mistake has been made somewhere, it is pointed out. Mistakes happen in many places. We know all the places where mistakes happen. Don't tell us. We are from the field. We are related to mistakes. But what I have said, does the department not see that they are putting in undersized steel? Where was the department at that time? With the permission of the Chair. Okay, with permission, Chief Engineer Sir, the request is that when the report came, Sir, and it came in the report that it is 11% below, then no responsibility was fixed in three or four years, or even now, no work has been done on that. That responsibility is still, the para was made at 6%, it was 6%, and it continued at 6%. According to the court, it was within permissible limits. This came up in the pre-PSC. No, this is what you check. You yourself said that 11% below. Sir, it was discussed in the pre-PSC, it was pointed out there. Before that, shouldn't there be any action against it? Yes, Sir, we will check. Yes, Sir, action should definitely be taken. We need another 2 years to check this. Look, Sir, a humble request to you is that you should not mislead the house. No, Sir, absolutely not. Okay, right? Yesterday, we greatly appreciated the discussion and actions of Sheikh Sahib yesterday. Okay? All these people sitting in the committee are practical people. Sir. Okay? And they have become members of the Provincial Assembly for the fourth, fourth, fifth, fifth time. So, speak straightforwardly. We have asked you the question that when a report came, your design, your given specifications were not followed, what action have you taken against that person? Tell us, if you haven't taken it, tell us that too. Sir, no such action has been taken yet because all these things were pointed out in the pre-PSC. With permission of the Chair. This is PSC, it was pointed out. How is it that your department also has no accountability mechanism? It definitely does, Sir. If this report of 11% below comes into your department's accountability mechanism, what will you do? Sir, we conduct an inquiry. Sir, I will tell you. Yes, with your permission, Sir, under PIDA, there is a proper probe. We also have third-party validation, and our research center also checks all these projects, Sir. Your point is well noted, Sir, and we will initiate action against the deliverables. Regarding the recovery, we admit and will recover in 30 days. With permission of the Chair. Madam Special Secretary is saying that there is a probe, then an inquiry, and so on. This is a set procedure, everyone knows it. We are saying that you have implemented this procedure. If you have not implemented it, then it gives the impression that all this is happening with the department's connivance. And I would suggest here that the working of the department is not satisfactory. If the House deems it appropriate, the department should be given a displeasure and told to make actual recovery and fix liability on those who are at fault. Mr. Chairman, Chief Engineer Sir has just said in front of the committee that we will recover this in 30 days. So, kindly ask them how they will ensure recovery in 30 days if it hasn't happened for so many years. If they ensure it, then it's good. If not, then it's a misleading statement. So, according to what the honorable senior member has said, we will proceed. If they say 30 days, do they have any basis for it? Please inquire about this. My two senior members have their opinion. And a good decision on this is that you effect the recovery within 30 days and conduct a detailed inquiry, with speaking orders. And one of my senior members is of the opinion that displeasure. But we are taking a slightly linear view on this. We are giving you one chance. If this repetition happens next time, then there will be serious concern on this, and we will give you a displeasure. You conduct the inquiry within 30 days. Fix responsibility and inform the committee. Yes, they themselves have spoken about recovery, but the committee's opinion is that since the report has come, what action has been taken against the concerned officials who committed this act? Regarding that, there is a time limit of 30 days. Next, Sir. Another observation, Sir. With your permission, the auditor also pointed out here that the department should strengthen its internal control. So, I also want to inform the forum that we have also rolled out digital MBs, Sir. Obviously, the department evolves, and all our miscalculated entries will also be eliminated. So, this observation of the audit has also been complied with, Sir. Yes, what is the audit's opinion on this? Sir, it is well appreciated, Sir, that the audit's recommendation for strengthening internal control, which could help the department in streamlining its functions. So, definitely, Sir, we would appreciate it. It is to be done, and it is to be appreciated. Okay, let's move to the next one. Next, Sir, page number two of the brief and page number five of the working paper, Sir. Sir, this is DP number, Sir, 530, Sir. Building Division Number One, Sir. Sir, this pertains to Rawalpindi, Sir. In this, Sir, price variation has been paid on some electrical items. Sir, the audit's point of view is that the price variation you have to pay can be on installation labor and diesel. Whereas, for items of supply, like LED lights, Philips patient bed lights, water coolers, etc., price variation is not admissible, Sir. What is the department's Sir? Yes, Sir. Sir, from you, Sir, Chief Minister, Sir. Sir, this is a clause of the contract document, Sir. I have the contract document as well, and in it, Sir, the price variation is for the value of work. It is not written anywhere in the contract document that we have to exclude electrical items from this. And that is why, Sir, we have placed this matter before the forum to take advice from the FD, which is the custodian of the contract agreement. If they agree that electrical items should be excluded from this, then we will do so, because it is very clear in the contract document that it is for the value of work done. Okay, Chief Engineer Sir, regarding this, please read the STSC of your department. Sir, I have read it, and I will tell you. Sir, when it is in STSC, Sir, STSC is a forum. In the forum, Sir, our Secretary is a member. You have been asked to read it. You read it, Sir. Sir, the department, the department explained that payment of price variation has correctly. Please read it loudly. The department has, the department explained that payment of price variation has correctly been made to the contractor and got not verified. Order informed that the department calculates the price variation of diesel and labor on electric items, which was not admissible. The committee directed the department to effect recovery on the basis of deduction of electric component from the value of work done for the calculation of price variation of diesel and labor and get it verified from audit within 15 days. The para was kept pending for actual recovery. No, now what is your apprehension after this decision of STSC? What is your understanding, Sir? My understanding is that in the decision of our STSC, there is an FD member, Sir, and audit is also there. Without the consent of both of them, our Secretary cannot write any decision. Now, what did Sir say? Sir, the STSC, this is a forum, Sir. In it, the Secretary is a member. FD is also a member. Okay, Chief Engineer Sir, you have a pre-PSC decision, 24325. Please read it. The department explained that after detailed scrutiny. Sir, this is audit's, isn't it? This is audit's version, Sir. The pre, Sir, your PSC decision, 25/3/2025. In this, there are two pre-PSC decisions, two PSC decisions. Your 24/3/2025 one, in this, no, 24/3, Sir. The latest is 29/01/26. Working paper. Yes, yes, Sir. No, the department, Sir, I, Sir, my another humble submission before the forum, Sir. Okay, Sir, if you take the original para, then there is no mention of electrical items anywhere. It was made on price variation. The department told the audit that it was not paid on price variation. Then the audit extended it, saying not to pay on electrical items. Read the original para. There is no mention of electrical items anywhere in it. Sir, please clarify this a little. Okay, Chief Engineer Sir, tell me, this whole discussion you are having. Yes, Sir. Okay? What is the purpose of your STAC? Number one. Number two, what is the purpose of your pre-PSC? Number two. Number three, there are clear guidelines and instructions from the Public Accounts Committee to all departments. The first column of which is related to this. So, if you have to start all this from day one, then why are you wasting our time? Sir, your point is absolutely correct. Your point is absolutely correct. But Sir, if there is a difference between the department and the audit, then we have to come to you, don't we? We cannot make a decision on our own. Our point was not accepted in STAC either. Our point in pre-PSC, you Sir, what are you talking about? The head of your department is the Secretary. Sir, I am telling you that the Secretary is a member. It is a forum. No, no, no, no, no, meaning the Secretary heads it. Okay, let me bring to your knowledge. According to the new Rules of Procedure of the Punjab Assembly, miscommitment, cheating, telling a lie are chargeable offenses. Let me clarify to you, you will speak in the committee what is based on facts and is true. If you take any such step, you will be in breach, and an offense will fall upon you. So, kindly do not do anything on which the committee decides to take action against you. Sir, I have no knowledge of anything. Your Special Secretary is present. Let her talk. How can you say that the Secretary does not head the STSC? Sir, Sir, who is to hear? Sir, well noted. Sir, please be assured that we will not do anything that is contrary to the truth. My apologies, Madam, the request is that in your presence, sitting by your side, a responsible officer, Chief Engineer, a good, responsible post, is making a statement on the highest forum of Punjab. He is saying that the Secretary does not head the STSC. Please give your opinion on this, then we will proceed. Sir, I did not say at all that the Secretary heads. Chief Engineer Sir, one minute. You tell the Finance Department, please tell the composition of STSC. Sir, this PSC has delegated its forum to its work to STSC and DSC. It is like the PSC forum works. The administrative secretary is its head. There is a member from the Finance Department, and one from Audit. Now, if you deem it appropriate, please provide a copy to Chief Engineer Sir, so that next time he knows that he should not make statements on such a big forum without knowledge. Sir, I think in the flow of argument, he said something wrong. But Sir, we definitely understand that this is delegated to us, and its responsibility is. Look, yesterday, your Secretary, meaning since the Public Accounts Committee One has been working, we enjoyed yesterday a lot that the Secretary himself admitted what we wanted to convey and stated it in front of this August House. Today, it is completely the opposite. So, before starting again, this is a last warning. Absolutely no.

It will not happen, nor will we tolerate what is not in your knowledge. Do not try to cheat us. Your job is to assist us. Finance is also present to assist. Audit is also there, and the department is also there. So kindly, let us continue the good practice that was established yesterday. Yes, ma'am. Sir, regarding the previous PPSC, I and the Secretary sahib were part of it, and we were duly praised for it. So I am hoping that today also, our work will be similar. The committee has praised you at the beginning. Yesterday, we appreciated the sahib and his department. And if today, after that appreciation, a responsible Chief Engineer sahib makes a statement in front of the house, which is being broadcast live, that they don't even know the composition of STCA and they will challenge the highest forum of accountability of their department, then tell me, what will we talk to you about, sir? Not sir, sir, in this, the directions in PPSC were that clarification should be sought from the Finance Department. I would request sir Samad, if you could provide us with some clarification on this. It is very clear that on the work, the labor, there was no variation on this. The recovery that is due, that item has variations. But on diesel and labor, the Finance Department, sorry, I interrupted you. We have set a standard for you for six days. You have to reply to them in writing within six days. Right? Yes. And it should be a speaking order. We will not accept one-liner or two-liner replies. Right? Yes. You give it within six days. Then, whatever opinion comes from Finance, the department will act upon it. Yes, noted, sir. Thank you, sir. Next, please. Sir, next, sir, page number three of the brief and page number eight of the working paper, sir. Sir, this is a clubbed para, sir. There are three paras in total in this para, sir. Please come to PDP 285, sir. Recovery has been effected, sir. Sir, it has been effected, sir, and it has been verified, sir. But its SAP document number, sir, has not been produced yet, sir. Okay, again today, we are calling the departments again, sending them. The Public Accounts Committee will not compromise on these directions under any circumstances next time. This "subject to" that you have written, "subject to SAP document" in the para as well, yes, sir. Right. The purpose of PPSC is precisely this. The purpose of PPSC is precisely this, that if there are any documents, any verification, any discussion to be had, it should be done by sitting at that level. Right, sir. Right. Let's settle this. Next, next. Right, sir. Next, sir, is DP number 493, sir. Building Division verification. Its page, page number, sir, sir, this is page number 10 of the working paper, sir. Page number 10, and page number three of the brief, sir. Brief, sir, this pertains to the Building Division, Nankana Sahib, sir. The para, sir, in this, there was an installation of a turbine, sir. In this, sir, when the audit pointed it out, sir, the estimate was on the higher side, sir. So, on the pointing out by audit, sir, when its payment was made later, sir, then it was, it was, it was settled with the audit on the lower side. Sir, sir, sir, are you satisfied, sir? Okay, settled. Next, please. Sir, next, sir, is page number 13, sir. Sir, DP number is sir 536, Building Division Number One, Rawalpindi, sir. In this also, sir, recovery has been made, settlement, sir. Okay, recovery is verified, sir. Okay, sir, settled. Next, please. Next, sir, page number 14, sir. Sir, sir, this is the first para, sir, pertaining to Building Division Number Sargodha, sir. Sir, the work of MAR and ADP has been executed, sir. And sir, on this, 16% PST and 7.5% income tax, sir, their deduction has not been made, sir. In this, sir, sir, in PPSC, sir, before that, a proposal was assigned to the Chief Engineer sahib, sir. So, he endorsed the audit's point of view, sir, and in it, he also said that recovery should be made and action should be taken against the delinquents, sir. So, the department kindly appreciates. If you recall the latest position, sir, what is the department's reply? Yes, on this, sir, the inquiry has been initiated, sir, in light of the probe report. Yes, yes, please proceed, sir. Sir, the inquiry has been initiated, sir. Yes, Amit, sir, please tell us. The Chief Engineer's probe report came on 30/12/2026. After 30/12/2026, we initiated the inquiry. This came in four years. The probe came, on 30/12/2026, the probe came from the Chief Engineer. Not 26th. This probe, PEDA, the inquiry has been initiated. Okay, when was this PEDA inquiry initiated? Sir, this was last week. After this, the probe report. Yes, sir. The probe report came on 30/12/2026. Not 30/12/2026. When did the probe start? Sir, the probe report came on 30/12/2026. Not 30/12/2026. When did the probe start? Sir, the probing officer was nominated on 19/01/2025. On 19/01/2025, sir. The probe started on 19/01/2025, sir. It started, sir. When did the SDSC order you to do this? On 25/01/2022. On 25/01/2022, you were ordered to inquire. You implemented it in 2025. Sir, and now you have reached the point that a PEDA inquiry should be held against him. So, why has there been such a delay? Yes, sir, sir, I submit. In this, sir, in the decision of STSC, there was a direction that a committee should be constituted and fact-finding should be done first. After completing fact-finding in 30 days, sir, a probe is generated. After the probe report, sir, this PEDA process was to be initiated. So, sir, no step has been delayed in this regard. Madam, we know that. We know about all these procedures. But I have requested why there has been such a delay in this. There has been a delay in fact-finding. No, sir, the probe happened after fact-finding. After the probe, not when did fact-finding happen? Amir, the date of this, you, you do this. You do this. Give us a detailed report. Okay, sir. And we will see why this delay has occurred. Yes, absolutely, sir. Okay, this is the inquiry. What about the fate of that? Audit, sir, recovery. Our recommendation is also that departmental action should be taken, and recovery should also be ensured at the earliest. So, in this, sir, will the department inform us by when the recovery will be made, sir? No, the department has now conducted the probe. After the probe, the PEDA Act was applied. The PEDA inquiry has been started on it. Sir, that means, sir, that means that it has been proven in the inquiry that recovery is due. Sir, sir, sir, the inquiry officer had two recommendations, sir. One was that you proceed under PEDA, and the second was that the due recovery should also be made. Yes, I am urging the same thing. After the probe, if PEDA inquiry is happening, then the department agrees to this that there has been malafide in this and recovery is also due. So, what about the recovery, sir? The recovery, sir, I want to ask the department. The department will ensure the recovery within 30 days, sir. Yes, 30 days, sir. The department. In 30 days. So, why have you caused such a delay? That is, the probe has happened, the PEDA inquiry has also started. We received the probe report on 30/01/2026, exactly, sir. Seven or eight days more. And the thing is, sir, what has been proven, after that, we will recover, sir. Madam, will you please inform us when you ordered the probe and after how much time you received the report? Yes, sir, all the details, sir, we will submit. As per your directions. No, we will submit it now. When will you submit it? You should have it. I think it is not in chronological order. We will submit it. No, look, the para is present. You should have come well-prepared. Now, when will we wait for your report? Look, the recovery is also 38,979 million. 978, 979 million. 979 million. If you permit, sir, your PPSC, 243/2025. Who was your inquiry officer? He is the Chief TAD, he is sitting in front. Yes, please come here. Please come forward. Your designation? Chief Engineer. Chief Engineer, PND, sir. CM&W, PND. Okay, PND. Okay. When did this inquiry come to you, sir? It came to me in September, sir. This September? Yes, sir. Okay, so the order is from 2022, sir. It came to me. The probe came to them first. Who had it before? Sir, tell me this. The order was in September. Not in September, it came to you? Yes, sir. So, this period of three to four years has passed. Previously, no one initiated it. Sir, this was the department's order, wasn't it? I did it according to that. It was with them before. Can you tell me this? Okay, the department ordered you late. Yes, sir. So, this liability, this liability is imposed on the department for this delay. See, this is a loss to the exchequer. There should be a probe into this. If the department's internal mechanism is alive, then PAC should not give directions, and as per my understanding, the department's internal mechanism is quite weak. Despite the orders of SDSC, which were given in 2022, this inquiry was held in September. And the inquiry is valid. The probe report came in it. After the probe, the PEDA inquiry was initiated. And the loss to the exchequer has not yet been recovered. So, I think the department needs to speed up its internal mechanism and also correct it. If the ground is immediately rectified, then I think such a situation. Yes, sir, sir, agree. Sir, sir, in this, the payments that were made, the fault that occurred was that income tax was not deducted. The para that has been made is that when they made the payment to the contractor, their pre-audit was done at that time. After the pre-audit, the check was issued. After that, the post-audit was done. After the post-audit, the department, the audit initiated disciplinary action on 24/03/2025. Yes, audit. Yes, now look, this is a gap. Both these tasks were your responsibility. Pre-audit and post-audit. Sir, it is like this, sir, that the pre-audit, sir, is done by DG Accounts Works, a sister organization of ours. So, our officer is separate from that. And sir, we have pointed this out, sir, in 2022, sir. After that, sir, the DSC happened, after that this report was printed, after that this PPSC came in 2024. In 2025, sorry, sir. Okay, sir. I will request, through the medium of this August House, the department to correct its internal mechanism. Regarding accountability, I feel that accountability does not happen in your department. Taking three to four years despite the orders of SDSC is an indication that you are reluctant to punish your officials and officers. So, I will request the chair to pass an order that there should be zero tolerance for loss to the exchequer. Okay. The decision of the House on this is that you effect the recovery within 30 days. Yes. Number two, the inquiry, its result should come within 30 days. Yes. Number three, in that inquiry, on whose part is this delay? You will also fix the responsibility, and after the completion of 30 days, you will send this to the committee. Complete report. Yes. Okay, sir. Next, please. DG Audit, sir. Mic on, sir. Sir, sir, my apology, sir. This pertains to Building Division Number Five, Lahore, sir. DP number 584, sir. In this, sir, again, PST deduction has not been made. And sir, in this, a decision was taken in DSC that the matter should be referred to Finance for clarification. Okay, on this, a letter was written to Finance on 24/03/2025 for clarification. Sir, Finance, sir, its reply has gone on 22/06, that clarification should be sought from PRA for this. What is the reply? On what date did it go? On 22/06, sir, that clarification should be taken from PRA. By the way, the Finance Department should also reflect on its ways. If it takes just six months for clarification, then these will be the same situations where work will remain stuck even after four years. When was clarification sought? When was this sought? This letter came on 26/03/2025. Sir, STSC, the original decision was in STSC, that not from Finance. The decision came on 25/01. With the permission of the chair, the chair has made observations regarding the Finance Department. Now, the Finance Department sees that if the compliance of SDSC reached them in 2025, I think in 2025. 25/11. Yes, it reached in 2025. It reached after 4 years. So, they should also take at least 4 years. I think the Finance Department also, sir, they sought clarification on this on 25th. The reply went with a delay. We don't have any reply for it. We will find out about this. Do you have it? Sir, there is a delay. You are right. There is a delay. There is a delay. Okay, what is its reply? Yes, take clarification from PRA. What is the tax matter? Speak louder. Sir, it has been asked to take clarification from PRA because it is a tax matter. Sir, the Punjab Revenue Authority. Finance has said to take clarification from it because the tax from Punjab, sir, is related to it. Not then, at that time, STC happened, then PPSC happened, then in PPSC, it could not be determined whether the opinion should be sought from where. Not in SDSC, there is no representative from Finance. He is not a tax expert. No, no, no. Being a tax expert is not the issue. He should have said there that this is not related to us. Give directions otherwise. So, why did your Finance officer not give a statement in front of us that you are giving now, sir? Sir, if he had given a statement there, he would have said from the relevant forum to get it verified. Sir, this tax matter is with PRA, which we all know, that Punjab Revenue Authority deals with tax. So, no, no, I am not, Additional Secretary sahib, the request is, is the representative of Finance not present in that meeting, the PPSC meeting? This is about STSC in 2022. The representative of Finance is present, sir. Definitely present. Why not? At that time, why did he not assist that instead of sending it to Finance, send it there? Look, see, yes, Additional Secretary sahib, in that, negligence of your representative, or whatever you call it, if he had informed the House that this is not related to us, we don't need to send it. You send it to the relevant forum, the Revenue Authority, then this much time would not have been wasted. Now look, this decision was made in 2022. It came to you in 2025. Now you say that this is not our matter. This is correct. It is not your matter. But this is the negligence of your representative, isn't it? Who was your representative? Sir, I admit. Our officer of Section Officer rank goes. If a person of Section Officer rank goes there, then this will happen. Our constitution is such that our SO goes to STSC. No, then get the minutes from that SO and give them. Did the SO give any contradictory note there? He did not give any. He said this. No, then you, then you call for an explanation from the SO sahib, why did you waste the time of SDAC, PAC, and yours too? Sir, compliance will be done. I will prove it. Approve it and give the report. Okay, look, these are three paras that have been clubbed together, and they are paras of 27 million, sir. So, from 2022 to today, it has not been decided who will give clarification on this. No, now it has been decided. They said this is not our domain, this is the domain of the Revenue Authority. So, the decision made by SDSC is itself wrong. Okay, sir. The opinion of the committee is that the department should send it as a reference to the Punjab Revenue Authority. Have you written? Yes, sir. We have already sent it for clarification, sir. Sent it. On what date, ma'am, did you send it? Yes, on the second. On the second, the same day we received it from Finance, on the same day, sir, we sent it. On 22/06, with the permission of the chair. Madam, I think a person of Secretary level. Let them go. Their SO went. A person of Secretary level, Chief Engineer level. And who is the representative of audit that goes there in STSC? Sir, our sir, Deputy Director and Director and Deputy Director sahibs should know which tax affairs should go to which forum. So, this is negligence of all of them, and I think they just don't know anything. Okay, sir. Within 15 days, within 15 days, they will give clarification on it. Today itself, our secretariat will also convene, and the Finance Department will ensure, sir, that within 15 days, compliance is done, whatever clarification they want to give. Next, sir. Next, sir, is page number seven, and this para is postponed, sir. It is postponed, sir. Next is sir page number 17, sir. Sir, same issue. DP number, division is also the same, sir. Audit, regarding all these three paras, it is the same. On all three, the same decision. Right, sir. Additional Secretary Finance, you note this. 584, 592, and 598. These are three paras, right? Yes. On this, it is the same that within 15 days, they should give their clarification. Yes, what will happen. It is postponed. All three paras. Next, please. Next, sir, page number 23 of the working paper and page number five of the brief, sir. Sir, this para pertains to the size of bricks, sir. This sir, is a clubbed para, sir, in which eight further DPs are involved, sir. Sir, I, with the permission of the House, sir, the first number is sir DP number 17, pertaining to Building Division Number Three, Lahore, sir. In this, sir, audit pointed out a recovery of 26 million, sir. Out of which, sir, 13 million the department.

The recovery has been made, sir, which has been verified. And sir, the balance recovery in this is 12.701 million, sir. Regarding that, sir, if the House Department kindly apprises the House, by when will it be done? Yes, sir, the balance recovery will be recovered within 30 days, sir. And sir, it is also requested from the forum that the para be reduced to the effect that what is the report on the recovery that has been made, sir, from the DGR? From UET, sir, the department has said that according to the UET report, it is within our specifications, sir. No, that report has not been shared with you. It has been shared, sir. The objections are from your side, aren't they, sir? So it has not been shared with you, sir. It has been shared with us. So are you satisfied, sir? Sir, sir, but our satisfaction was not there, sir. That is why, sir, the department has gone for recovery, sir. Now the department is saying that partial recovery has been made, the remaining will definitely be recovered within 30 days. Madam, yes, sir, it will be done, sir. Okay, you say reduce it, sir. Sir, the para to the effect that the recovery that has been made should be reduced. So, okay, sir. It has been reduced, and thank you, sir. Recovery to be effected within 30 days, yes. And pending, pending it or settle it, your commitment, sir. In this, we will request that we first make the recovery, sir. Yes, sir. And sir, directions should be passed that the remaining amount be recovered in 30 days, sir. Next, next, sir, is DP number 84, sir, page, page number 28, sir, 28, sir. Recovery 49, sir. This DP number 84, sir, is from Building Division Number Two, Multan, sir, for settlement, right, sir? Yes, so do it for settlement. Yes, sir. No, no, no, sir. You brief the committee on this, sir. This para also, sir, is on page 28. You, sir, 28, sir. You pointed out 4.912, sir, million, sir. Yes, sir. Sir, after we pointed it out, they have verified the lab test reports for us, sir. So now you are recommending that it be settled. Sir, then let it be settled, yes. Okay, okay, settled. Next, next is, sir, page number 33, sir. 33, sir. Double three, sir. Sir, in this also, sir, recovery has been made. It has been made, sir. It has been made. Okay, okay, settled. Next page, next page is, sir, 38, sir. Sir, this 5 lakh recovery, sir, was pointed out by the audit, sir. So they later on, sir, verified the lab test reports for us, sir. Next, sir, page number 39, sir. 39, yes, sir. Recovery has been made, sir. In this, sir, 3.40. Full recovery will be made, yes. Next, settled. Yes, subject to recovery, it is written. Sorry, sir, sorry, my apology, sir. Sir, in this, sir, it is admitted, sir. Admitted department, sir. In this, sir, recovery has been made, and sir, it is requested that it be settled, subject to verification. Okay, let it be settled, subject to verification, sir. Right, sir, right. Next, yes. Next, sir. Sir, page number 40, sir. In this, sir, there was an amount of 2.709 million, sir, which the audit pointed out for recovery, sir. Out of this, sir, 1.079 million has been effected, sir. And sir, the balance recovery is 1.363, sir. Kindly, if the department apprises the House, sir. In this also, within 30 days, the remaining amount will be recovered. And sir, it is requested from the forum that the para be reduced. That remaining amount will be effected in 30 days. Para may be reduced and pending, pending it. Okay. Next, sir. Next, sir, page number 42, sir. Sir, in this also, recovery has been made, sir, which has been verified. One minute, one minute. In this, recovery has been made. Yes, it is settled. Okay, yes. Next, settled. This is also for settlement, sir. This is also for settlement, sir. Next is, sir, 460, sir. 460, yes, sir. Okay, in this, you pointed out 319 million, sir. Sir, sir, I will explain. Sir, at the time when we gave our original observation, sir, the initial audit, it pertained to this amount, sir. And sir, when we, in the SDSC, after verification, reduced this amount, sir. And sir, our audit report para also pertains to 0.280 million, sir. In the working paper, sir, the department has included the amount of our original observation, sir. Whereas in the STSC, we have already reduced it, sir. Okay. This is for the department, that all these paras, although we have settled them, please consider that the nature of this para is that it is of sub-standard quality. So, shouldn't there be any responsibility fixed on those who were responsible at that time for maintaining this standard or ensuring that quality and quantity? So, please tell the department about this. This is absolutely, sir. I want to assure the forum that the department is absolutely for zero tolerance on this, sir. And we also have third-party verifications, validations, consultants on-site. If, sir, any anomaly is pointed out, the Secretary sahib is very strict about this as well, sir. But we are further strengthening our internal control mechanisms, and immediately whatever action is taken, ma'am. We have no doubt about the efforts of your current department secretary sahib and your department, sir. But it is a matter of regret that even after three to four years, the effort that has been seen is from your current secretary sahib and your department. So, look at the previous individuals. Institutions are not individuals. Institutions have their own existence. Tomorrow, there will be another secretary for C&W, the day after tomorrow, another will come. So, this is extremely regrettable that what the previous C&W was doing for three years, should we not also consider that? If we are praising and appreciating the current C&W, and this entire House is appreciating them, then look at these institutions as well, what have the responsible people in the department done before? This is public money, which we all have to save together, sir. That is why, sir, the recoveries made by the department are definitely 100% appreciable in saving the public exchequer from loss. You made the recovery, your department made it, it was done with the efforts of the honorable secretary sahib. The request is, what about the elements, the individuals, the responsible people who became responsible for this process? Should they be let off? That they will do it next time, next time, and similarly, we sit here for four years, a good C&W comes, and they effect the recovery. Our concern is about this, that those under whose tenure or whose responsibility it was to look into these things and implement them, why did they not get it done? With the permission of the chair, I would request the madam that for establishing financial discipline, accountability is essential. Until there is accountability, this impression will not go into the department, and this financial discipline will not be established. So, we are giving you food for thought. You have to implement it, sir. So, hopefully, you will. Sir, well noted, sir. And the initiatives, sir, I would just like to mention in one minute. One is our digital MB. Second, sir, our lab automation is done. In this, sir, all our things will now be digitized. And e-tendering, sir, the secretary sahib had already apprised yesterday. So, sir, we were, we are working on it. And we are also strengthening our internal accountability mechanisms, sir. Sir, point well noted, sir. Thank you, sir. We are settling this, and with the direction that the department should also determine the responsible individuals at its level and apprise the committee that these are the responsible people. Because of them, this happened. And they should also submit that report within 13 days. All the relevant paras we have discussed so far are settled in this regard. Yes. Next, next, sir, page number 50, sir. Page number 50, sir. Sir, printed draft para number is, sir, 2.4.1.1, sir. This, sir, is a clubbed para, sir, in which there are 12 cases, sir. This, sir, pertains to the recovery of dismantled material, sir. No, this has not been reconciled now, it has come for settlement. Yes, sir. It is for settlement, sir. So, what is the debate on this now? Clarification has come from finance for its settlement. I think, okay. Okay, sir. Settled. Next, next is, sir, page number 52, sir. 52, sir. In this, sir, recovery has been made, sir. The performance of this entire department in terms of recovery is very good, and recovery is happening in all paras. Therefore, where we admonish the department, we also praise it. Sir. Next is, sir, page number 54, sir. PDP number 50, PDP number 50, sir. Yes. In this also, sir, recovery has been made, sir. This is also not, this has come for verification of the final bill. Has the department not verified it yet? What is this, this 50, sir, PDP number, page 54, page 54, sir. Sir, this is verified, sir. PDP 50 is verified, sir. And DGR Audit, sir, in your brief, it is mentioned that verification of the final bill, sir. Sir, sir, sir, this was also decided in the pre-PSC, sir. The committee recommended that the PSC may like to decide. Has the department verified it for you? Yes, sir, verified. Okay, sir. Settled. Yes. Next, this is also for settlement, sir. Sir, this is as per FD template, sir, when we looked at it, sir, this is also recommended for settlement, sir. Clarification from FD has come in this. Sir, there was no clarification from FD in this. Sir, when the rate analysis was made by the department as per the FD template, sir, no, you are talking about PDP number 86, sir. 86, sir. Check your notes. As per clarification of the FD dated 13/5/24, sir. Sir, according to that, sir, on the MRS template, sir, recovery was not due. Okay, sir. Next, with the permission of the chair, if you give 10 minutes for prayer, it's 1:45. If you give 2 minutes, we can close this chapter at 2:00 o'clock, then we will do it. Next, sir. Next, sir, is page number 56, sir. DP number 133, sir. 133, yes, sir. Have you verified it? Yes, sir. Okay, sir. Next. Settled, sir. Next, sir, is 165, 165, sir. Same, sir, verified, sir. Okay, sir. Revise page code, sir. Page number 57, sir. 57, verified. 326, sir. In this also, sir, recovery has been made, which is verified, sir. Page number 59, sir. Okay. Next, yes. Next, sir, 391, sir, at page 60, sir. 60 page, sir. Sir, in this also, recovery has been made, sir. Verification has been done, yes. Recovery has been verified. Okay, sir. Final. Next, 408, verified by order, sir. Verified, sir. 408 is also verified, sir. Okay, sir. Next. Next, sir, is page number 63, sir. DP number 434, sir. In this, sir, you have said that the department should inform about the balance recovery, sir. In this, sir, this balance recovery is subject to verification of the balance amount. Let this para be settled. Have you done it? Point one, two, verification has been done. Done. Yes, okay. Settled, subject to verification. Next, 36, 360, sir. Next, 60, 69, page number 69, sir. We, 5, verified, yes. 535, sir. This, sir, recovery has been made, sir. Verified. Okay, settled, sir. Keep stating the pages, sir. Page number is, sir, 69, sir. Next is, sir, page number 70, sir. This is also verified, para. This is also verified, sir. Okay, proceed. PDP number 535, 70. Proceed further. Okay, sir. Settled, sir. Verified by audit, sir. Page 70, sir. Page 70 is also verified, sir. Yes. Okay, proceed. Which page next, sir? Next is, sir, page number 74, sir. This, sir, is clubbed. You have said that it should be regularized from finance, from FD. This has been done. This, sir, was the decision of the last pre-PSC, sir. In this, sir, there has been splitting, sir, and in this, sir, the department has also conducted an inquiry, sir. And sir, because it is admitted that where regularization will happen, finance can guide better in this matter. This means, sir, that irregularity has been committed, sir. And sir, now it is up to this august House to decide. No, no, audit, tell us. The department's reply is that pointed out recovery rupees so and so, 35276 recovery admitted null. Recovery effected nil. Proposal para may please be settled. In the light of the probe report of the Chief Engineer, what is the probe report of the Chief Engineer? In this, sir, in this, sir, the secretary may like to answer. In this, sir, there were directions that in this, sorry, in this, sir. Okay, the request is that first, in your, in your STC, which happened, happened on 30/1/2022. In that, it was decided in the SDC that this should be done, and the SC, Building Circle Sargodha, should submit the report in 30 days. Then, ma'am, your pre-PSC, which happened, was on 24/3/2025. Probe report dated, yes, 28th. The latest one, 29/1/2026. Sir, the sequence is not coming. Yes. The first pre-PSC that happened, there were two. In that, on 28/3/2025, the SC completed it and recommended initiation of inquiry proceedings under PIDA Act 2006 against the officials. Then, after that, a new pre-PSC is happening on 29/01/2026, in which, in 2026, no, no, on the 29th, on the 29th, the second probe was completed by the Chief Engineer, P&D Lahore on 19/01/2026, and recommended that the excess payment, then FD, your stick needs to be revised and regularized from FD. A little bit, yes, sir, sir, this is a probe report submitted earlier, and by what level of officer was it done? By the SC, sir. Yes, sir. By the SC, and he recommended for PIDA inquiry. Sir. On what date did this happen? On 25/3, sir. 25, 25/3, sir. 25/3/2025, sir. Okay, he recommended that an inquiry should be held against this. Then, after that, where did the contradiction come? A de novo inquiry, sir, was got conducted by the department. Sir, when a probe report comes, it is processed and goes to the next level, and after that, this de novo inquiry was got conducted, sir. The de novo inquiry was conducted by the Chief P&D, and in his recommendations, sir, his recommendation was that there is no financial embezzlement, but there might be a procedural lapse. Where there is a procedural lapse, we have again referred it to the Finance Department, sir, for regularization or clarification. Sir, the Chief P&D is present. Present, sir. This is a contradiction between you and the SC. Sir, so the SC's apprehension is that malafide has occurred in this, and embezzlement has occurred. What is the difference between your report and his? Sir, in this, it is, no, let him state his point of view first. It is written. Sir, I do not have his report. It is simply written. PIDA inquiry. No, let the department tell. What does his point of view in the probe state? Assalamualaikum, sir. Amanat Ali, sir, SC Building Circle Sargodha. Sir, you conducted the inquiry? Yes, sir. On 24/3/25. Come here, SC sahib. You tell us, your point of view in the probe recommends that a PIDA inquiry be initiated. Yes, sir. What are your grounds, sir? In that, sir, quotation work is involved, and quotation work, quotation, quotation work, and it was a bit more. I gave my findings according to the prevailing rules, according to my understanding, that this is a violation of the rules. Okay. Rules that did not permit it. Yes, sir. The quotations were a bit more, meaning, meaning more. This PDP, sir. Sir, sir, I will add this, sir. Sir, in this, sir, there were two. In the first, sir, there were quotations of 76 million, and in the second para, sir, there were quotations of 35 million, sir. Okay, okay. Let's put this on pending, and with the direction that you also bring your complete inquiry report and the one done by the Chief Engineer, number one, the department is required to bring the complete details of the contractor sahib at that time, their enlistment, what work was done, to the committee in the next meeting. We will see there whether in that. Okay, you will note this. On that day, you will also call the Law Department here. Finance will be here, Audit will be here. We will sit that day and look at it. Next, yes. Next, sir, page number 77, sir. This is the same issue, sir, that okay, which already, sorry, I take it back. Audit, sorry. In this, the reports that have already been submitted, meaning the SC sahib has submitted, and the Chief Engineer sahib, see, you have to send your complete reports, the ones you have submitted, to the House first. This Chief Engineer sahib. You conducted this inquiry, so what was the fate of this liability of 35 million? Sir, in this, they have not pointed out embezzlement, sir. No, no, embezzlement will be discussed in the inquiry. Sir, what was the fate of the recovery? No, sir, there was no recovery in this. Yes. There was no recovery in this. In this, it was only that recovery was not due. No, sir. They only said that you called for quotations. This is splitting of tenders. Tenders should have been called. It was only a procedural issue. Yes, sir. Sir, there is no financial embezzlement in this. Procedural lapse can be indicated. For that, we have referred it to the Finance Department. According to you, this recovery is not due. No, sir. Financial embezzlement, according to the inquiry we received, is not there, sir. Sir, may I add, sir? Okay, ma'am, the request is, is this quotation work not based on likes and dislikes? Number one. Number two, if the department promotes quotation work, then what will be the situation in all those matters? Sir, we are not promoting any sort of quotation work. But that is the question mark. The committee will see what was its registration, what was its enlistment, how much work was it capable of doing, in what capacity was so much quotation work given to it? What do the FD rules say about this? Do our existing laws permit it or not? Sir, in this, sir, the responsibility and digging out this matter was perhaps also the job of the probe officer. That is why, sir, probes and inquiries are initiated. But sir, anyhow, because there was a difference of opinion, we have referred it to finance.

Referred. And sir, the department does not support any sort of quotation work which is against PAPRA rules, sir. You are 100% right, ma'am. The request is that this is not a difference of opinion, this is completely a 180-degree angle, isn't it? On one side, one minute, Mr. Mian, just a minute, then you can proceed. On one side, an officer who was given responsibility after the STCA meeting. He said that an inquiry should be held against them under the PEEDA Act. The other Chief Engineer says that nothing has happened. Just, you know, let's leave this debate. We will see it in the meeting at that time. Yes, next please. Mr. Mian, if you want to speak, the decision, let's go to the next page, number 79, sir. This number, sir, the entire page is 79, sir. Page DG, okay, please turn on your mic, Mr. Rana, turn off your mic, sir. Sir, in that, sir, as per PAPRA, sir, for maximum engineering works, sir, the scope of work is that the contract can be enhanced by 20%, sir. Whereas, sir, in this, sir, it has gone beyond 20%, sir. Sir, this contract has been enhanced up to 70%, sir. So, sir, regarding this, the department has sent any clarification from my side? Yes, clarification was sought from you, which you gave me seven days for, we will do it within that. Regarding this, sir, it is a simple matter that it is not permissible above 20%. The point is correct, but since they have asked for it in writing, as you have ordered, we will do it in seven days. Okay, Additional Secretary Finance, a request, please note that matters related to the Public Accounts Committee should not exceed six days. Okay? And if this is not complied with, then in the next meeting or the next agenda, we will summon the Secretary Finance. This is not a procedure that work continues for two to three years just on clarification, and this is not a procedure, nor should it be. With the permission of the chair. Sir, your compliance is done. With the permission of the chair, the Finance Department is giving its verbal decision, isn't it, that it is not exceeding 20%? This means recovery is due. Sir, when you asked for it in writing, they did not... No, no, I understand. You will definitely send that in writing. Your finding has already come, hasn't it, that it cannot exceed 20%? So it will be the same in writing, won't it? So the department, I think, should go towards recovery. Yes, and try to... after their written response, how much... Sir, give me 30 days for this. Give me a chance. Honorable member, my request is that we have already given standing instructions regarding clarification or opinion from Finance or any department that it should not exceed six days. Because in this paragraph also, it is said that verbal should be written. We adopt the same pattern that you will give yours in six days, and after the lapse of six days, you have received that letter from the department. If not, confirm it today. After the lapse of six days, you will submit that report to the committee. Your opinion in writing, and the department will take action accordingly. Yes, honorable member, I request that the Additional Secretary of the Finance Department is present here. He is verbally presenting his sense here, telling his decision. The decision has come. The rest is formality. He will also write it as a formality. So, I think a decision should be given on this subject to the report of the Finance Department that the department should recover. No, sir, in this, sir, in this, request, sir, if permitted, sir, sir, Mr. Mansoor Ashraf, Chief Engineer, Highway North, sir. Sir, the submission is that there is a road, sir, on which we have to do TST, sir, on the request of some parliamentarians or due to some other pressure, sir, we have to convert it to asphalt. Please don't talk. Okay, sir, look, this is not your discretion, Mr. Mansoor, this is not your discretion. Okay, the request is, the decision on this, the decision on this is, sir, my request in this will be, Mr. Mansoor, I will look into this, sir. The request will be that if we get a direction from the forum, after the written advice we get from the Finance Department, sir, the department will take... Exactly, the direction from the house is that the department will act according to whatever opinion comes in writing from the Finance Department. Yes, and there are 30 days for this, six days for Finance. Okay, let's go. Next, next is sir, page number 83, sir. 83, sir. DP number, sir, 489, sir. This para, sir, pertains to Building Division, Nankana Sahib, sir. Okay, this has come, sir. In this, sir, it is that as per PND, sir, the letter, sir, the requirement is that any contract above 500 million, sir, you are doing PDP number four, sir, 489, sir, 83, 489, sir, page number 83, sir. 83, let's go, sir. Okay, page 83, sir. 83, sir. Yes, sir. DP number, sir, 489, sir, Building Division, Nankana Sahib, sir. This, sir, is PAD's instruction that for any mega project above 500 million, sir, a consultant will be hired who will look into the payments, sir, and also supervise the work, sir. So, sir, when we conducted the audit, at that time we saw that this university is to be built in Lalkana Sahib, sir, and its total worth was about 1400 million, sir, and a consultant was not hired for this, which was later, sir, hired. Now it has been hired. Yes, sir. Now it has been hired. Okay. Let's go. Next, sir. Next is, sir, page number, no, sir, it is not complete, sir, it is, sir, I have heard that it came during or after the consent, sir. This, sir, this is what we objected to, sir, that during this period, the payment you made, sir, you should have hired it earlier, sir. You have made such a big para, sir, approximately 4687 million, and you did not even take a minute while settling. No, sir, from that, sir, look, you create so much hype, and then when you sit, DG sir, you don't even know. Sir, next time, sir, look, you put the committee in technicalities. Sir, sir, is the understanding reached? Sir, no, sir. Yes, okay. Okay. Sir, okay. Next, sir. Next is, sir, page number 86, sir. 86. This is PDP number four. Yes, sir. PDP number four, sir. Building Division number three, Lahore, sir. This is a clubbed para, sir, in which seven different DPs are involved, sir. In this, sir, the para pertains to the provision of price variation, sir. TS estimate. Okay, now tell me, has the revised TS estimate been verified or not? Let's go. Okay, settled. Next, sir. PDP number will come. Next is, sir. Sir, in this also, sir, verification should be done. Sir, this, sir, the department has not produced it to us yet. Administrative approval and revised TS are still under process. No, sir, in this, in this, sub-para 22 and 33 of Pre-PSC have been verified by audit, sir, and accordingly, sir, they should be settled. Sub-para six may be kept pending for revised TSC, sir. Sir, let two be settled and one, sir, may be kept pending. Ma'am, you are mentioning the PDP number? Sir, 112, sir. In this, sir, three sub-paras are involved, sir. In this, three sub-paras, sir. Sir, sub-paras 22 and 33, sir, in this, sir, the white TS has come. Along with this, sir, sub-para eight, sir, is still under process. No, this para is of the same scheme. These three paras are of the same scheme. One scheme is not. Sir, different Kasur, sir. Different. Three different, different schemes. No, then why clubbed? Why not make it half? Sir, the issue is the same, sir. The issue may be the same, sir. The para should be half. Sir, sir, it has been made half, sir. It's not. In many, many places, there are identical paras. Sir, they are made. After that, we look at para by para. Now, look, you have made these three. Now two have been settled. One remains. Sir, in this, yes, we get confused, sir. Right. Yes, sir. Next time, sir, next is, sir, page number 90, sir. DP number 174, sir. Whose partial recovery will be? Sir, in this, sir, the recovery has been admitted, sir. Recovery is admitted, sir. It has not been affected, sir. And sir, within the next 30 days, sir, it will be completed. No, no, the pointed out recovery is 5.285, sir. Recovery admitted is 3.4. Where is the outstanding recovery? Concerned Chief. Sir, this, sir, this TS has been revived, and within that, sir, this will be recovered, and sir, the balance, sir, the department is satisfied with the balance, sir. Yes, okay. Okay, this is in 30 days, sir. 30. Okay, let's go. Recovery to be effected within 30 days. Yes. Sir, page number 92, sir. Ukhara ki Ukhara ki, page number 92, sir. 92, sir. DG Audit, PDP number, please, sir, 175, sir. 75, sir. 175. In this, sir, TS has been revised, sir, which has been verified. Okay. Yes. Next, sir. Verified. Settled. Sir, in 94 also, sir, it is the same, sir. TS has been revised, and we have verified it. Okay, fine. Yes. Yes. 10 minutes. Next is, sir, page number, number 95, sir. Building Division, Narowal, sir. DP number 233, sir. 233, sir. No, what about PDP number 205? Verified, sir. Para for settlement. Revised, sir. TS has been done. Okay, sir. DG sir, DG sir has gone on auto. All the paras, sir, I think all the paras are towards settlement. No, sir. Sir, next is, sir, PDP number 23, 23, sir. Page number 95, sir. In this, sir, as per the decision of DSC, sir, we have not been produced the record yet, sir. Yes, department. Yes, PDP number, which one? GD, sir. Number 95, 95, sir. 95, sir. Number. In this, we have submitted this in Pre-PSC. The department, if you look, the department, just a minute. The handing over. And it has been verified. Facts verified by audit. Uh, DG Audit. Sir. This brief you have given us, your last one in six columns, status. Please read it. Yes, sir. Verified. Sir. Verified. Verified, sir. Okay. Next. Verified. This is settled. Yes. Next. 320. Next is, sir, page number 97, sir. Same, sir. Okay. Settled. Yes. 15 minutes break for prayer. Sheikh sahib, come. Let's go. Bismillah hir Rahman nir Rahim. Let's start. Yes, sir. DG Audit. One minute, please give time. All the paras, the working papers that are currently before this august house, for which there is settlement from the department and audit, we are settling all of them. Yes. You start from there. All the paras for which audit and the department have agreed for settlement, we are settling all of them. Right? You start the rest. Right, sir. Sir, this is the same, because we talked about it yesterday as well, and the same paras where advice is to be sought from FD or any other department, for those also, the same direction is given, six days' time. In six days, they should give the direction in writing. After the direction and verification comes, the department will act on it within 30 days. Yes. Next, sir. Proceed. Yes. Now start. After this, you take out the remaining portion. Okay. Same. This, this we are doing for the Building Department now, and the same for our Highway Department. The same directions from this august house are that wherever the department and audit have agreed for settlement, we are settling all those paras, and wherever verification or advice is needed from FD, they will give that advice within six days, and accordingly, the department will act on it within 30 days. Yes. This is the same for highways as well. Yes, sir. Please give me one minute. Adnan sahib. Sir, regarding highways, please submit a verified list of recommended paras from the audit side. Sir, we will provide it, sir. Page number, sir. Next. 113. 113 number, sir. This, sir, is a clubbed para, sir. In this, sir, the issue was of revised TS estimate, sir. This is a total of 24 DPs, sir. Sir, in that, sir, it is that DP number, sir, it is settled, it must have been settled. No, no, in this, sir, the submission is that some revised TS have not been given to us yet. I will tell you the DP numbers, so kindly provide us with the revised TS, sir. First on the list is DP number 268. 268. Next is 257. No. Okay, DG Audit, sir, and department, let me simplify this as well. All the paras that require verification, we are settling them subject to verification. Once verified, they will be settled. Next, to our next agenda. Next is, sir, page number 153, sir. 153, sir. 153, sir. 153. This has also been referred to Finance, sir. As per your direction, it will come, sir. No, this has been done, hasn't it? Yes. Next is, sir, page number 166, sir. Sir, in this, sir, Building Division Sargodha, sir, this is also verified. No, ma'am, in this, sir, the probe you had, sir, kindly share it with us. That will be done. Other than that topic, it is written here, verified by audit, sir. Page number 166. 166. Sir, these are working papers prepared by the department, sir. In this, sir, our contention is that the probe that has been conducted should be shared with us, its results. Then we will be able to comment. Your brief, what is its page number? Its page number is 22, sir. 22. But this decision of Pre-PSC has been reproduced here, and according to it, it is: The verification facts have been verified by audit. No, no, sir, it doesn't happen like this. They are completely on board. In this, sir, they have verified it. Yes, sir. Wrong statement. No, sir, we have not, sir. Sir, one minute. Light. This is what we are saying. 166, verified by DG Audit, the brief you have given us, sir, on page number 22, sir, PDP number is 351, sir. Its status is PAC may direct the department to get verified the results of the probe reports. What does the department say? Sir, from our side, it is settled. No, it is not settled. See, fix responsibility against. Yes, sir. Sir, let me take a look at this. Yes, yes, ma'am. This 351. Next to this. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. 16 is the paper, sir. Page number 169, number 279. What is this? 2796. Audit, please tell us. What is this PDP number? Sir, in this 351, sir, we demanded the probe report, whereas in 279, sir, we... But there is no such thing in the working paper. Sir, this department... I am not talking to you, sir. Why did the department conceal facts? No, sir, there is no such concealment, sir. If any probe is to be done on the facts, then it should be in writing. Sir, if audit needs a copy of the probe report, we provide it. But sir, their own contention is recorded in Pre-PSC that it has been verified. I am talking about para number and this PDP 279. So the DG is contradicting you. DG sir, look here, the department is saying that you have... we are talking about 166. Chairman sir, share the report with them. And sir, sir, I... Okay, the report, sir, sir, what is on 166 is sir, para number 279, sir. And what is para number 351, which ma'am is talking about, is on page number 169. No, no, then you gave us wrong information, PAG. We were reading on 166. Come to 169. Okay, on this, they have written, proposal. Proposal inquiry report shall be submitted within stipulated time. Sir, what is this stipulated time? 60 days, sir. 60 days. So when did this inquiry probe start? Sir, this probe report was received by us on January 19th, and after that, PEEDA has to be completed within 60 days. No, on whose direction was this probe started? Did the department itself do it, or did STSC? STSC's directive... STSC has been saying this for three years. So this is actually the problem, isn't it? They don't do it timely. After that, these paras cannot be settled. Okay, this PDP number 351, the decision on this is that you have 16 days. 60, sir. 60. 60. 60. Okay, as per the decision of Pre-PAC one, the first one, then the second one, according to their decision, whatever inquiry report it is, after the completion of 70 days, we will give you 70 days, and you will submit it to the house. Sir, right. Next. No, no, brother, 60 days is required by law. Okay, let's go. Next. Next is, sir, page number 171. Take it, a little. 171, sir. 171 number page, sir. Rao sahib. Yes, this has also reached FD, sir. Next, tell us, what is on 172? Has FD clarification been done, or sir? Next, sir, is the last para, sir. Page number 173, sir. This, sir, is a clubbed para, sir. In this, four DPs are involved, sir. This, sir, was from MAR divisions. It became defunct in 2021-22, sir. So their assets and securities, sir, were to be taken by the successor divisions, sir. And in this, sir, the major issue is that in many divisions, sir, the security is still not accounted for, sir. Okay, again, department, look, three and four years, your STC has been involved in these matters. It's from 2022, so what is it yet? Sir, in this, Amir, please explain all the technicalities to the forum. All the securities were to be transferred from MAR to the successors, which was to be done on the Safe System. Now, Safe System is closed, or sometimes open.

There are times when it closes, their head, some data is being migrated or updated. As soon as the DG Accounts will upgrade the safe system, all these securities will be successfully transferred. Sir, in how much time will you do this? Sir, we have taken up the metric from DG Accounts, so a direction will also go from today, so what do DG Accounts say? Sir, DG Accounts, sir, I sir, DG Audit Works, so DG Accounts Works, sir, a separate office is separate, okay. Time is running, yes, we will send this in writing to them, giving them a time limit, right? Do it within that time, right? Okay, next agenda complete. Yes sir, now you see if there is anyone in the highway who wants to do it, let them do it. Highway, sir, this is a big sir, sir, should I proceed, sir, with your permission, sir, please wait for a minute because today there were two departments, C&W also had P&D. So we are calling the PAD department. We are checking that if the Chairman PAD is not there, then because without him the meeting will not happen under any circumstances, please give us five minutes. Bismillah Rahman Rahim, PAD department and all related departments' heads who have come or are concerned, please come to these empty chairs here. If they have sat down, then please introduce yourselves. Assalamu Alaikum Sir, sir, I am the Secretary Planning and Development Board, my name is Rafaqat Ali Ali, sir. The Chairman PIT is also sitting with me. He is also the Head of PIT, sir. And sir, Umar is joining in two minutes. He is the CEO Urban Unit, sir. His team is already present here, sir. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you very much for coming. Now, the request is that the Head of Department, where is the Head of Department? Sir, I myself have all the delegated authority, sir. No, who is the Principal Accounting Officer of PND? The Chairman PIT is also the Chairman PND, who is basically the Administrative Secretary, sir, of PND. I asked you a specific question: who is the Principal Accounting Officer? Chairman PND, sir. Chairman PND, so he should have come. Is there any problem, sir? The meeting of PDWLP was going on, sir. I basically represent the Secretary, all the matters are with me, sir. They must be doing it, but our submission is that the meeting of PSC cannot happen without the Principal Accounting Officer, sir. Okay, so if he was busy, he should have informed us a day in advance that he is busy and cannot come, then we would have scheduled the meeting for another day when he was available. So now, for us, I think the Chair will decide whether we can have the meeting or not without the Principal Accounting Officer, because his presence is necessary. He can only look into the paragraphs and answer them. Sir, if you permit, I will explain this a little. Sir, basically, a summary of our restructuring has also been initiated. Sir, there is some ambiguity in the Rules of Business of PND in this regard, that the Chairman PND is basically the Chairman of the PND Board, whose main responsibility is to provide policy guidelines to the members, to the administrative departments, and to deal with the development portfolio, sir. And the Secretary PND, sir, deals with all administrative matters. But what you were saying, the existing situation is exactly as you are saying, sir, that he is the Principal Accounting Officer, Chairman, but all administrative matters, sir, please don't mind, Sheikh Sahib, we hold the Principal Accounting Officer accountable here. If he is busy at the moment, it would have been better if he had informed us a day in advance. If he could not inform us, then we will hold the meeting at his convenience next time, and his presence is necessary in my opinion. The rest, the House can decide. Whether he is available or not. Sheikh Sahib, the request is that as the honorable member has seen, the meeting of PDWLP has its own importance, but I think it is the highest forum of Punjab. So, one injustice is that if the Chairman was not coming or was busy, he should have informed us. We sent you the agenda a month ago. This is a collective effort that we all have to do together. So, it is a settled principle, and we have issued our own directions. The meeting of the committee will not happen without the presence of the Head. We are postponing this meeting. We will inform you of the next meeting date. Okay, otherwise, Sheikh Sahib, we will start getting blamed again this time, that we are showing indiscipline. Yes, indiscipline in the future disturbs promotions or creates problems for promotions. So, when this happens and we are not informed, and the committee is not told about our busyness or that we cannot come, then the committee will also have some remarks unanimously. This time we are lenient, we don't do this, but next time if the Chairman PND does not come, then we will work with zero tolerance regarding that. He himself will come and represent the meeting. We are postponing the meeting. We will inform you of the next date. Thank you for coming. Thank you very much. Sir, if the forum still gives directions, then we can contact the Chairman and call him. Sir, there was no such intention. This would be a very good thing. See, then this is a greater injustice. Greater than that. This is a greater injustice. Honorable Sir, in my opinion, you are not giving weightage to this forum, or you have not given it weightage. This is the only forum of the Public Accounts Committee which has constitutional cover and is working under the umbrella of the Constitution of Pakistan. So, if this is the attitude towards it, then I will only regret it. If you say that he can still come, then I will try to contact him with the permission of the Chair. You can contact him. We will wait for half an hour or an hour. Meanwhile, we will take up the highway. So, if he informs us about his availability, we will postpone it for today. And if the Chair permits, the Chairman comes, we will take up PND. With the permission of the Chairman, you yourself said that the agenda has gone. Now to call him suddenly in half an hour is a greater insult to us. No, okay. In my opinion, as the senior member has said, the committee is in agreement. You see, if the Chairman PND comes within half an hour or an hour, we will continue with it, otherwise the meeting will only happen when the Chairman arrives. Right sir, right sir. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yes, C&W Department. Yes sir, with your permission, sir. Sir, before the DG sir, sir, I would just like to brief that sir, we have a total of 69. If, if Madam permits, we will give you and the DG sir 10 minutes to sit and work on the department and audit, or on which we can start, keeping in mind the directions and instructions already issued by this committee. Sir, absolutely sir. It's a brief, that's it, sir. If you permit, I will brief. Sir, in this, 42 of our paragraphs are already settled. 15 are subject to verification, on which the committee has already given directions. In four, sir, we have recovery, which we can discuss. Six have gone to finance for clarification, and two are under inquiry, sir. So, practically, only six paragraphs are to be discussed, sir. It is your opinion, sir, but we want to have a wrap with you, sir. Right sir, right sir. Okay, so that a decision can be made with consensus. So, we are adjourning for 10-1 minute. During that time, we will also have our branch person sit with you so that the committee is also well aware. 15. Right sir. Yes, Bismillah. Yes, next, Sadnan Sahib, our respected sir. Sir, should I proceed, sir? Yes, permission, sir. This is page number, sir, it is 66, sir. DP number 512, sir. Sir, 400, put this live, sir. Okay, this will not come on 65, sir. Page number 65, sir. In the old working papers that we were looking at yesterday, it was 65, sir. In the ones submitted by the department this morning, sir, there is a difference of one page, it is 66, sir. 66, yes, sir. Yes, sir. If according to the old one, sir, the old one is 65 and the new one is 66, sir. Please come to 66, yes, sir. Sir, in this, sir, the recovery has been made. Sir, sir, in this issue, sir, last time, sir, there was an order of recovery for this August, sir, and along with it, sir, there were disciplinary proceedings. Sir, recovery has been made, sir. So, regarding disciplinary proceedings, sir, I would request the department to inform the House about the position. Sir, last, sir, in PAC, your, sir, direct department. Yes sir, we have completed the recovery, sir, and as far as the inquiry is concerned, it has been initiated, sir, and will be completed within 30 days, sir. Madam, at what stage? Yes, Nawaz, tell me. Yes, sir, proceedings, sir, inquiry is done, reply submitted, SC Gujranwala is appointed, and we will find it within 30 days. No, no, that's fine, sir. But is it being probed? Is it a regular inquiry, sir? Yes, sir. It is a regular inquiry. A regular inquiry is being conducted. Yes, sir. Okay, when did it start? Sir, it started on January 19th, sir. No, from January. From January 19, 2026. And when will the report come? Sir, it will come within a month, sir. Within one month. 30 days. Yes, sir. And who is the accused? Sir, the accused in this is Iqbal. No, no. What is his rank? Sir, he is an ex-SO, sir, and Divisional Account Officer, and a sub-engineer working in the field. No, sir, this person has retired. The person has retired. Yes, sir. The person has retired. Yes, sir. Action has been taken. The person has retired. Yes, sir. Are there other SDOs as well? Yes, sir. There is also an SDO in this, sir. Jishanu ul Haq, he is still working, in service, yes, sir. He is posted in Pak Pattan, in the field. Yes, sir. In the field. I think if there was a probe before, sir. No, sir. First, we have initiated a regular inquiry. No, sir. Sir, basically, what happened was that in the PSC decision, the Secretary himself proposed in that meeting that recovery will be made, but we will also fix responsibility for this, and this was a decision from April 2025, sir. And after that, sir, we have now directly initiated the inquiry. Probe, sir, not in this. Yes, sir. Direct, sir. Direct inquiry. Direct, sir. Direct. Okay, okay. Let's go. So, within why? You have asked for 30 days. Okay, within 30 days, you will finalize the inquiry. Yes, next, next is, sir, page number, sir, 109, sir. DP number, sir, 457, sir. Yes, 457, sir. Sir, Road Construction Division Gujranwala, sir. Sir, in this, sir, the issue was that the toll tax contract was awarded to the contractor, sir, and the audit's contention was that the PST, sir, was not deducted. In this regard, sir, clarification was sought from the Punjab Revenue Authority, and they endorsed the audit's point of view that yes, PST recovery should have been made. So, in this, sir, because there is a considerable delay in recovery, so in this, sir, the department has admitted the recovery yourself. Yes, 28.01 million. Yes, yes, sir. This recovery is admitted as per the advice of PRA. Absolutely, sir. This recovery is due, and the process has also been initiated, sir. Now, sir, this has been declared as arrears of land revenue and has been sent to the DC Sialkot, sir, and within 30 days, sir, this recovery will be effected. Is there any inquiry in this as well? No, sir. There is no inquiry in this because, sir, it was a technical matter whether PST taxation basically applies or not. So, according to the advice we received from PRA, we will make this recovery. Sir, sir, my submission in this is that, sir, no doubt there was no inquiry in this, but sir, because now its security etc., I don't know if they have it or not, because this is not a company, sir. Sir, if you can further inform whether it has been blacklisted or some action should have been taken against it, because there is a considerable delay, sir. Basically, sir, the contractors we have for toll collection, sir, they are not registered, sir. So, anyone can come and participate by making a CDR, but sir, we have not allowed these people to participate again in any bid, sir. Now, what will be your mechanism for recovery, sir? We have sent it to the DCs of Mandi Bahauddin and Sialkot, sir, four times. Has any department written to PEPRA or the relevant department to blacklist it? Has any department, sir, have you written anything? You are just talking verbally now, sir. We have prohibited it. Have you written anything in writing against it, sir? Basically, sir, the rights are auctioned, so as such, their enlistment will not happen. There is no enlistment, so the procedure of blacklisting, sir, does not apply to it. But sir, its arrears will be recovered by declaring it as land revenue through the DC, sir. Collection, sir, is basically an auction of rights, sir. Anyone can participate. If they bring a CDR that day and come and present their vision. The Chairman's vision. Sir, in this, it happens that if I am blacklisted, then I am working under some other name by submitting a CDR. The CDR is submitted in someone else's name, and then the work continues. Actually, what they are saying is that they should be properly blacklisted. They should be blacklisted with permission. They should be registered, and then blacklisted. With the permission of the Chair. According to my understanding, there are two parts to this. One is the actual recovery, which you say you will do. Now, by what means you will do it, I don't know. You say it is their land or whatever it is. However, the second is that this is paragraph 22-23. Today is the 26th. Loss to the exchequer happens from two angles. One is the actual, and the other is the delay in recovery. Now, the delay in recovery is due to someone's negligence. Is that right, Madam? Sir, absolutely agreed, sir. Can you tell us the name of the officer whose negligence caused this? Sir, because we only received clarification on June 6th, so since then, sir, we have initiated the recovery procedure. No, June 6th. What happened on June 6th? Sir, the clarification from PRA, whether PST applies or not? No, okay, you have the clarification. Yes, sir. So, the process, but you have started the process of money, sir. But if you go back to 2022-23, you will find out who is the person whose negligence caused this whole matter. Sir, there was some confusion in this, sir, that confusion could not be resolved for 70 years. Sir, PRA, basically, we add PRA to our construction projects first, sir, then deduct it later, sir. Sir, listen to me, sir. It is not that simple for you. You know all the matters. Why are you diverting us? See, you have to fulfill your responsibility. Now, whatever officer was there in 2022, if he did not fulfill his responsibility, we are not telling you about that. It was your responsibility, but it was that officer's negligence, the loss to the exchequer, which I am talking about, happens from two angles. One is that at that time, they made it in crores, it became 2 crore 80 lakh, sir, even more than that, 2 crore 80 lakh. He used it for four years, and recovery has not been made yet, and look at the value of money. My submission to the department is that you develop your own internal mechanism. In every paragraph, there is some... these are the latest paragraphs we have taken up, 22 and 23. Previous paragraphs are also pending, which we have not taken up. They will also have similar matters. And the department should create its own proper system to deal with these paragraphs and look into the loss to the exchequer. Financial discipline will come, the department will improve. The department will continue to function like this until you make it accountable. See, here you get us into technicalities. Now, this is your Chief Engineer, sir. Chief Engineer, sir, isn't it? Yes, sir. Chief Engineer, sir, will have many things to tell us technically. But he has all the information whether this work is being done accordingly or not. You were recruited as an Overseer or SDO? SDO. How long did it take from SDO to Chief Engineer? 37 years. In 37 years, you still haven't figured out these technical issues, man. It's a matter of great regret. Now you are explaining to us, teaching us. Okay, we accept your point. We will rebut you, but at least this current government of Punjab believes in merit and transparency. And you should follow the government's policy. This is all I can submit. Well noted, sir. Sir, just, sir, the submission is only that, sir, this tax was imposed only in 2012. PRA was formed very late, so there might be some anomaly, but sir, your point is well noted. Please assist us, sir, regarding blacklisting, what do you say? Sir, this is done according to PEPRA rules. We should seek advice from PEPRA on this, and as the Chief Sir is saying that they are not enlisted, we should also formally write to PEPRA about this. They cannot take it like that. They have to be listed. How can they take it? I can take it, can't I? Enlistment, sir, our toll contractors are not enlisted, sir. No, sir, see, unless you are enlisted with a department, how can you get it? Then people will... Okay, even if he took it, accepting your point, he submitted some security to you, then his money came to you, right? How did it go to him? Sir, in this, I am submitting that he, sir.

All of the toll money has been deposited, sir. Only the 16% PRA is there. The confusion was that it was supposed to be added to the toll cost first, the cost was supposed to increase, and then it was supposed to be recovered. It was not added. We are still recovering it. Sir, one thing is that after three or four months, they revise it. The contractor is also benefiting immensely from this. We see that they deliberately do not start the work. They keep getting the works revised again and again. My opinion is that if you are talking about construction work, sir. If the funds are not fully available, sir, then there is no fault, sir. If the schemes are fully funded and they delay it, sir, then we impose a penalty, sir. We do not pay the price variation either, sir. Okay, sir, regarding this 30 days, we are saying to recover it, then yes, on this, the decision is that within 30 days, you should recover this recovery that you have admitted, and further, you should seek advice from the department regarding the contractor, what advice the PRA gives on this. Then the department should act according to the advice that comes from the PRA, and you will also get that advice within 30 days. And next, there should be something about this. Then a direction should be given, sir. I, with the permission of the forum, sir, if sir, you want to say something, yes sir, I, sir, completely submit that we have, in the same way, the digital process, yes, the digital process has started. Yes, sir, then this issue will be killed, eliminated in the same way, sir. Yes, sir, next page number 172, sir. This is sir, DP number 25, sir. No, on 172, this has gone to FD for regularization, sir. Sir, in this, the probe has also recommended that it be regularized, sir. Sir, the issue here was that the mobilization advance, which was required to be paid before the commencement of work. But sir, in this case, the work also started, and the mobilization advance was paid in the fourth running bill. And no doubt, sir, it was recovered in the fifth bill. But sir, an irregularity did occur, and for that reason, it has been sent to finance again for regularization, sir. You are talking about page 172. Page 172, 25 PDP number, sir, 25, sir. Attock, sir. Attock, Attock, this 172, sir, 172, sir. So, when did FD, FD come to you, sir? This is the same as you said earlier, you have given me six days. This is part of that, sir. I will comply with this. Tell me, the mobilization is separate, isn't it? It is received before starting the work. How was it given in the fourth bill? This mobilization that was given is received before starting the work. It is given in the fourth bill. How was it received? There is an account for it, isn't there? No, from which account was it given, sir? We did not give it. That's what I am asking. I don't understand. What is your understanding of this paragraph, sir? If they have written to us, then give me a copy. There is no reference here as to when they wrote. If you have given me six days, I will comply with it. Okay, no, this has been written to you by the department, yes, on 125 2025. This cannot happen because we also have reference back, then it comes, then it goes, many times these things come. That is what it is. So, as you have given me six days, I will do it in this. No, time has not been given. Six days' time has been given now, hasn't it? So, before, you don't have this reference. I don't have the reference that they wrote once, then we also refer back, we ask some queries, then give me the complete details, then I will find out. FD sir, Additional Secretary sir, Finance Department, you give this money. You also have to look into it. You are least bothered, I think, about where your money is being spent, that you are saying that we have not received any reference. The department is telling you the date, sir. No, this is then negligence of your department, isn't it, sir? The department is sitting in front of me. Give me the latest reference. Old reference. Yes, sir, you give the reference. Yes, sir, we will reconcile this as well. The latest one that went to us is 211, and the latest one that went to us is 210. Sir, it is still in process. No, is this a reminder or is it the first letter, the second one? Second, sir. When did the first one go? No, give the date of that. First. Yes, sir, sir, I submit this, sir. Sir, earlier when we sent this reference, the query from finance was that this is a prerequisite of the probe report. After getting that proved, sir, we submitted it to the Finance Department on January 21st, sir. Now, sir, as they regularize this, the para is already conditionally settled with the PSC, sir. If the department just regularizes it for us, it will be completely settled. Sir, this is the same, sir, January 21st. There is no date for this in our records. Okay, on this, the same six days, and you will submit a more detailed report here to the committee. Next, next is sir, page number 178, sir. DP number, sir. Page number, sir, 178, sir. Sir, DP number is sir, 429, sir. Road Construction Division, Gujranwala, sir. In this, sir, the department, what about the balance recovery, sir? In this also, a protective measure went to court, sir, civil court. It went in his favor there, then in the session court, it went in his favor. Then we went to the High Court, sir. We won the case from the High Court, sir, and after that, we wrote to the concerned DCs. We recovered its money, sir, 11 million were available with us. We have written to the DCs for the balance, sir. 44, yes, 33, balance recovered. Yes, ma'am, when will the remaining recovery be done? 30 days, sir. Okay, within 30 days. Yes, DG sir, next. Next page number 182, sir. Sir, DP number is 456, sir. This 456, yes, sir. In this, sir, this is that in this, sir, toll collection was done by the department itself, sir. And in that, sir, the collection was below the reserve price, sir. So, in this, sir, an inquiry is being conducted, sir, and that is still under process, sir. So, the department, further, sir, should inform the house as to when the decision of STC will be taken. Not STC, sir. This is sir, sir, sir, this is from STSC, sir, further. This was discussed last time, sir, and this house ordered an inquiry, sir, in the last PSC, sir. Sir, this was from April 7th to 10th, the last PSC, sir, PSC One ordered, with the permission of the chair, when was this inquiry initiated, and against whom is the inquiry being conducted? Yes, Amir, update on this. Sir, the inquiry was initiated on 11 2025, sir. The inquiry was initiated on 11 12 2000 2025, under which the department, did the department do it on its own or on direction? Sir, on pre-PSC, sir, on the direction of the pre-PSC. Sir, not once, on the direction of the PSC. On the direction of the PSC. Okay, you did not bother to do it yourself? No, sir, in this, sir, I submit, sir, in this, basically, sir, there was one recovery, and in the PSC meeting, the secretary himself said that we will fix the responsibility, sir, and after that, sir, this inquiry was initiated on 11 2025, sir. It will be concluded within 60 days, and we will submit that inquiry report, sir. On whom is the inquiry being conducted? This is Muhammad Shabbir, Executive Engineer, and sir, there are eight people in total. Muhammad Shabbir, Excellent, Gujranwala. Syed Junaid, Excellent, Gujarat. Rana Muhammad Adeem Khan, Sub-Engineer. Rehan Arif, Sub-Engineer. Mir Shahid Mahmood, Sub-Engineer. Shoaib Tariq, Sub-Engineer. Malik Iftikhar Ahmed, retired. Malik Shahid Iftikhar, Highway Inspector. Who is the inquiry officer? Sir, the inquiry officer is Isa bin Moin, SC, First SC, Lahore. This person who was sitting before, the AC sir. No, this is someone else, sir. This is from the building department. Okay. You conduct the inquiry within 60 days and then tell us. Okay, ma'am, the request is that this started from 126 or what? 1225, 12125, and what is the date today? Today is 102. How much time has passed? 2825, 125, 1125, sir. It was on 11 2025, and the last PSC, sir, in December, in December, sir, it was initiated. The PSC's direction was in April. Sir, no, I am asking what was the time frame in the last decision of the PSC? It was 60 days, sir. Exactly. Why this delay? Sir, sometimes, sir, the delay happens due to transfers and postings, there are many, the officer changes. This is a small issue, sir, that comes to us. But sir, within the next 60 days, we will complete this, sir. No, no, no, already, see, the stipulated time is 60 days, so 60 days are complete. Now you are asking for another 60 days? Yes, sir, absolutely. Now it's 30 days. Why is it like this? See, one, you did not conduct the inquiry yourself, you did it on our direction, and that too not within the stipulated time. So, who is your inquiry officer? The inquiry officer is here. Sir, he was from the building department, he has gone back. First, he was from the building department. Sir, we will ensure it in 30 days. Sir, no, no, why is that inquiry officer not present here? Sir, the first one is present, so why is the inquiry officer not here? Sir, he is related to the building department. Basically, he is from our building. He may be from any department, from PAD, but when the para is present, the inquiry officer should be present. See, now in front of you, we asked the Chairman PAD sir, he did not come. We told him that the Principal Accounting Officer should be here. Sir, by the grace of his department, he said, okay, we will tell him, he will come. See, now your subordinate, you are sitting, you are present, and he is not sitting here. Yes, sir, we will ensure it, sir. Yes, next time we will ensure it, sir. From next time, for the para, whoever is involved, whether it is the inquiry officer, he should be present. Okay, sir, the decision on this is that the time is 30 days, and it is the last time. Number one. Number two, as senior member Mian Yaawar Zaman sahib said, seconding him, the consensus of the house is that next time, all the related and relevant people for the para should be present in the house. Yes, thank you. Next time. Yes, sir, that's all, sir. These were the paras on which there was some disagreement between us and the department. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.