he made $1m with AI Automations - listen to him

All right. So Jack, what do you think is the biggest AI opportunity in 2025?

I actually had this conversation with somebody recently, and I’ll tell you what I think it isn’t. It isn’t things like prompt engineering, because we’ve got to look at the development of these AI technologies. I’m seeing a lot of people building things that actually the big companies—OpenAI, Claude—are just going to develop anyway. A lot of it sits in the application layer. In other words, using AI technologies to deliver value to businesses. We have a significant demand on the one hand that has not been met by uh the supply side. More people are getting into AI automations, but I don’t think there’s benefits been realized yet. So I think it’s about making AI simple and connecting that to actual business numbers. And if you can do that, I think you’ll absolutely crush it.

Real quick, I’m looking to hire a back-end developer to help me build Vectal. So if you have the experience or if you know someone, the link is going to be below the video.

You mentioned AI automations, right? That’s what you’re known for, and I agree that’s probably one of the biggest opportunities because every business has some process, you know, some inefficiency that could be improved. Can you give us like a simple explanation for those beginners watching, what is an AI automation and like what can it do?

The way I always think about it is you’re connecting, on the one hand, AI which attles with no-code automations tools like N8n, Make, and Zapier. And the idea is we combine these two fast-growing uh markets and technologies to do something epic. So an example of that is automating the onboarding process, um, lead qualification for businesses, chatbots, um, voice agents, building fully-fledged mini-SaaS solutions for prototypes—essentially any business problem you’ve got, just leveraging AI no-code. So if businesses aren’t using it, they’re leaving a lot of value on the table, dude.

100%! Yeah. And it’s also like a nice way to step it up using ChatGPT. Anybody can do that, right? So I think like the next step—going to make.com, any building some automation—that’s like a nice next step.

It is. And it’s like the thing is like you can achieve like the results without no-code. It’s just that no-code’s made it way more accessible and a lot cheaper. Uh, like like my last tech stop, for example, like when we built it, we needed a developer. Like if I were to rebuild that today, I wouldn’t need to do that anymore because no-code at the level AI is at a level where we could just like cut all the way through that. So it just means access to technologies become so much greater for these businesses, man.

Yeah. So many more people are in a position to be able to start a business or build software. It’s kind of like an amazing opportunity that I still think not enough people realize. Like it’s never been easier to start a business now.

No, it hasn’t. No, definitely not. I think that’s basically the TL;DR of it—is it is just democratized opportunities. If you have a laptop, connection, and enough coffee, you can get started straight away and sell—either sell to a business or start making an impact and add value yourself. Like I think it’s really freaking epic.

I mean, dude, how about you? What do you think the biggest opportunity is for 2025? By the way, I think I’m the only person in the world who documented step-by-step how I built my AI startup from zero to $13,000 a month in monthly recurring revenue. And all of that is available in the new society inside of this module—How to build an AI startup. You can literally see how I chose the idea, how I created the project in Cursor, everything through fixing errors, the mistakes I made, deploying it, adding payments, getting the first paid customer. All of that and more is documented in the new society. So if you want to jump on this massive opportunity of building an AI startup, make sure to join the new society. The link is going to be below the video.

I mean, I would say two types of categories. For complete beginners, I would say it’s AI automations. It’s so easy to get into, it’s ridiculous. But I would say for people who have a bit of tech background or, you know, higher ambition, I would say it’s just building specific software. It doesn’t have to be an AI startup, but like you can build with these new models and new AI tools. You can build software so fast. Yeah, it’s ridiculous. So let’s say there’s a big company and they, you know, struggle with like HR or something. If you can come in and, you know, save them like hiring 10 people, you can charge like 50k, 100k for that, you know, and that that’s not an AI startup, but it is just a B2B software. So either building automations for the beginners or like more advanced software. These are, I think, the two biggest opportunities.

I think that’s good. It’s also, you know, we ask what’s the biggest, but it’s also like there may be one that’s bigger than the other, but in reality, there are probably several freaking things. You—you don’t even have to be great to still succeed in this sector. That’s the craziest thing about it. You can kind of fail upwards a little bit.

Yeah. To the biggest mistake is not doing anything, right? Like as long as you’re in the AI field, you’re good. Like the field is growing, everything. You know, maybe there’s going to be like startups that get replaced by OpenAI, whatever. You can pivot, right? But like not being in AI is the biggest mistake. And then not doing something, not trying something. That’s—I would say like as long as people are trying, they’re going to succeed.

I agree with that 100%. Well, actually, on that AI SaaS point, what is interesting is, you know, when do we reach the point where AI’s kind of solved the SaaS problem, you know, this dude? Because you’ve got a really sick SaaS company, right? What’s your thoughts on that versus AI’s ability soon to actually just create full SaaS at the scales?

Once it reaches that level of technology, it’s going to be possible, but then you have the people who are ambitious and take the initiative, right? So I—I don’t believe the fact that like your biggest—I’ve heard this on Twitter—I disagree with this completely. Your biggest threat is your customers rebuilding your SaaS in one hour. No, like the issue is that the people want it easy, right? The people—the reason why SaaS are successful is because it solves a problem in an easy way. You pay monthly subscription, you solve a specific problem. So even though there’s going to be models like, you know, GPT-5 in the future that are going to be able to build full SaaS and deploy them, whatever, still there’s going to be people who get those ideas who distribute those, right? So the killers are going to be even more killers, and the people who are behind—they’re not in AI—they’re going to be even more behind.

Yeah, you know that’s actually true, because technology is actually not the bottleneck. Like businesses don’t fail for lack of ideas; they do it because they’re just crap at executing, right? And it’s like—I love this idea—you could even put the dream ultimate successful business plan on someone’s desk; they still won’t do it anyway, because you give them the technology—necessarily be able to execute on it. So yeah, I think that’s a good point. There’s a lot that goes around the SaaS, too. So yeah, there—there was a really good point I think by Naval—is that entrepreneurs are not scared of AI. If you look at all the like categories like, you know, artists, employees, who’s going to be replaced by AI, there’s zero entrepreneurs that are like scared of it. They’re like excited. Okay, boom. I can execute this faster. I can, you know, speed up my employees. Boom, boom, boom. And yeah, so it’s the people that are problem solvers that are ambitious that have good work ethic that are the ones who are not scared by it. They just see more possibilities.

Yeah. They see AI; they think possibilities and opportunities. They don’t think, “Crap, I’m going to lose my job.”

Yeah. And also like the rate of advancement is speeding up. Like just—just yesterday, Open—actually two days ago, they released GPT-4.1, and then yesterday they released GPT-3 and GPT-4 mini. And that’s like just 3 months after releasing or 2 months after releasing GPT-01. So it’s like the rate of progress is actually speeding up, and yeah, it’s—it’s getting crazy, like even I’m struggling to catch up, and it’s literally my job.

But it is weird, though, isn’t it? You cannot like—it’s like every day of my WhatsApp, there’s a brand new model that’s dropped that does something completely different. Did you—I mean, have you been following the whole benchmark things, how like the—they’re developing these models now that are optimizing it actually not for performance but to look and perform well on the benchmarks?

Yeah, there’s some of that for sure.

Yeah, but the models are also getting better.

They’re also getting better. Yeah, there’s some benchmarks you cannot really cheat, you know, like ChatGPT, I guess ChatGPT, there’s probably some ways to cheat it. There’s like benchmarks that are blind, you know, like people choosing which is best model. That’s the best one in my view, like the blind test which gave you the better answer.

Yeah. But then after the model is released in the first like few days, people develop the vibe test. They—they like—you see the demos on Twitter, right? You see what people are thinking about it, and you cannot cheat that. Like if you try the model inside of Cursor and it sucks completely and it’s changing wrong files, people are going to spot that. So I don’t think—I don’t think like there’s any issue with this. Obviously, it’s bad if companies purposely like fake that and optimize for certain benchmarks, but the models are getting better, and also the context windows are becoming massive. Like GPT-4.1 has 1 million tokens; Llama 4, the Scout one, has 10 million. That’s insane, dude.

That is ridiculous. I mean, let me ask you this question, dude. Like could you do a lot of like coding? Like what model are you using primarily like today, on April 17th, for your coding? Like yeah, we need to timestamp this because it’s time changes all the time. Ask me an hour, get a different answer.

Yeah. So okay, this is a good question, actually. So like the tried and tested Claude 3.7 thinking max inside of Cursor. They put like solid restrictions on it because without the—the max—this—the max reasoning effort, right? So that it thinks for the max amount of time. Without that and without some, you know, prompting they did on the back end, the model was crazy; like it was changing files left and right; it was just out of control. You told it like remove one comment, and it updated five files; it—it was just like not good at instruction following, but right now the way Cursor contain it, it’s really good. But currently the best model I would say is Gemini 2.5 Pro. This is a model from Google that is really amazing at coding. It’s a reasoning model, so it’s really like the best at programming—at complex programming—right now. The issue is that sometimes it almost does too much reasoning, like, you know, for simple problems, maybe the reasons for 20 seconds; it’s not that bad, but I find GPT-3.7 thinking more consistent, but then for complex problems, right now I’m going to be using GPT-03, because this is the new model that just released yesterday from OpenAI. It’s the best reasoning model in the world by far, but um, it’s not as—it’s not as fast, you know, if—if there’s a—it can think for like 5 minutes if needed; some—it can think for 20 seconds if it’s a simple thing, but uh, yeah, I still haven’t tested it enough. I’m making a video on it today, so we’ll see, but yeah, GPT-03 is really powerful, and it was released—I mean, it’s actually really difficult.

Like often times I’m at the point now where I don’t use Google anymore. Number one. Secondly, like if it’s like a question of importance, I will usually run it through two models at least and compare the outputs. And there’s a kind of like vibe element that people have—like it’s almost—there’s the benchmark, but then you just—you just kind of read it, and you have a kind of affinity with the answer.

I—I’ve been really impressed with the Deep Research stuff. Yeah, like—I mean, I was asking it questions about different regulations and things. I almost was spoiled because if just one of these epic seven things that came out we had like a year ago, I think the whole internet would completely collapse. Like even Deep Research is such a significant tool.

Yeah. And a big part of that is that Deep Research was the only place to access the big GPT-03 model. Yeah, so that was powered by GPT-03. Obviously, now you can use GPT-03 by itself, but yeah, Deep Research is amazing. And also like if you talk about the vibes, GPT-4.5, it’s not good at benchmarks, but personally, that is my favorite model—like anytime I need like any like personal advice or life advice, that model just understands so much; they pack so much knowledge into it, which is why it’s slow and expensive, but I don’t know—that feels like the most human model right now.

Yeah. And actually, dude, what’s really funny to me is like when I chat with ChatGPT on the app, like the models have different personalities. So they’ve got the one with the blue circle, and I don’t like that guy. Like I don’t like his answers and responses. He actually gets—it’s quite frustrating. I’m like, “Dude, I want details. Give me more details.” But the one where you do that like single shot, speak for like minutes, and then he comes back at you with minutes, I find the conversation much better.

Right. Same with like Sesame—like the personalities are different based on the models. Obviously, Sesame is a completely different thing, but like I do think we’re probably approaching a point where the quality differential will be indistinguishable for a lot of people. Like it just—it—the improvements in its output—when you get to the point where we actually can’t determine which is better because it’s all reached like what we consider to be the maximum level performance. Again, depends what type of people you’re talking about. If you’re a complete beginner, then yeah, they don’t know what to select, right? And then obviously ChatGPT has a huge problem having like eight models in the model picker, and they have to like explain like in one sentence why should you use this one or that one, and especially the naming makes it impossible, right? Like you have GPT-4 mini, then you have GPT-04 mini; nobody knows what that means, like especially beginners, then they release like GPT-4.1 comes after GPT-4.5; it’s so confusing. Like I—I wish—I’m—I’m glad I’m not a beginner because like this is so crazy, right? But um, I don’t know, like for example in Vectal, in my startup, I offer all the models like so that people can choose, you know, what they like. But—but that’s—that’s funny, like if you to put a lens on like of actually trying to get consumers on it, cuz I think we are going to get perform—like improvements in performance for sure, like scaling law shows that like we can see—we don’t know if the rate of improvement is exponential or linear at the moment because we can’t zoom out enough to see, but it’s—to me, I think the big improvements now—obviously everyone’s doing the race for the training—I—I actually perceive the biggest opportunity is going to be like how we interface with different individuals on that now. What can you do on the UI? What’s like the bit that you make it more of a humanlike experience? Like Claude’s been an excellent um proponent of that and like really blew my mind how everyone just started to shift over to Claude after ChatGPT came out because its responses just felt and presented as more humanlike. So I think these companies—I like—I believe the opportunity for them is yes, make the models more powerful. It’s actually a lot of the gains now are going to be on the user experience because I only see them becoming increasingly commoditized as the costs go down, the performance goes up. How do you differentiate? It’s got to be either bundling it with other technologies—in other words, “Hey, you use us because, by the way, we do incredible images. Oh, and by the way, oh, and by the way, oh, and by the way”—in one terminal, or it’s got to be some—the group of customizability.

Like one of the crazy things that blew my mind, if you look at like usages of AI websites, one of the biggest ones is like the avatars—the chatting with personalities—which I thought was really interesting because people like chatting with, I don’t know, Arie instead of like an AI bot.

Especially girls.

Especially girls. Yeah. Character AI is like mostly women. They get so addicted to it, and it’s like roleplay, you know, fantasy, whatever. So this is a very interesting phenomenon.

Yeah, that is interesting. But that’s basically prompt engineering, you know, like you have the same model, but you give it a personality with the prompt. So maybe that is the answer to your question, because like you have all kinds of different groups of people, and if you want to build like a lawyer chatbot, right, it’s not that you need a different model than OpenAI, you just need to prompt it in a different way. So also UI—you can change the UI to be for lawyers, right? Looks different than UI for programmers in Cursor. So that’s, I think, the way to do it on the application layer. You adapt the UI and UX plus the prompting.

Yeah, I would say—I would say that’s right. I mean, then you get licensing for different voices, different personalities. And then also one—a buddy of mine has this idea of—he really wants to bring in visual avatars to his chat window. So you’re not just speaking to his screen, but if you can actually have avatars you communicate with. And that’s obviously on a collision course for robotics when that lands in the house. So all these different technologies are trailblazing, and individually, they will collide at one point, and we’ll all converge in some pretty epic stuff.

Yeah. A lot of people are actually not seeing what’s going to happen, you know, like—

No. I mean, it’s tough to say, isn’t it? Um, yeah, it’s very tough to say.

You think there’s any way around this like growing inequality, or it’s inevitable?

Do you mean growing inequality in what sense? Like the—the—like the smart gets smarter, you know, like the people who are using AI will get even further ahead, and then like the people who are ignoring it will get further behind?

Real quick, if you’re someone who likes to be super productive, make sure to check out vectal.ai. This is my AI startup, and it includes a lot of advanced AI agents that literally do your work for you. Let me show you. This is the infinite thinking agent, which is currently the most popular one. And you can literally start it and enable YOLO mode, and it will autonomously, by itself, work on the tasks you have on your list using advanced reasoning models, web search, and a bunch of other tools. So if you want to have access to all of that and all the other AI agent features we have inside of Vectal for free, you can start on the free plan. Go to vectal.ai and sign up. It takes 30 seconds, super easy, and it will save you countless hours in the months to come.

Yeah, it’s like knowledge inequality, isn’t it? Um, because I think there’s fairly standard good access to AI where if you got an internet connection now, you can pretty much access the best models. It’s more about what you know. And we’ve had, I would say, probably 18 months of um, roadway runway to learn these technologies, these—like even if you’re doing automations, if you want to like drive like big value for businesses or whatever, but it’s almost like—yes, the rate of change is there is present is growing, and I think that gap between a sort of day one beginner and someone that’s been doing it for a couple of years is getting bigger. Yeah. So I think there’s going to be knowledge inequality, and it’s like that classic—AI is not going to take your job; it’s people using AI that’s going to do that. But even like—I agree everybody has access to ChatGPT for free, right? There’s still a huge difference between the person who’s using ChatGPT for free maybe once a month and person that, you know, is using it daily, paying for the paid plan, which like unlocks much better models, and it’s—it’s like knowing what to ask. So many people just use it as Google, and it’s so sad to see because like it can do so much more, right? Describe that. Here’s what you’re not seeing. Here’s five different ways to solve it. This is like priceless, right? You get consulting with people that are like—have all the knowledge with someone who has all the knowledge of the world. It’s—it’s really amazing. But then again, like there’s people like me and you who have like AI automations, AI agents. The average person cannot even comprehend like what’s possible. And again, there’s many people above us who like doing much more, right?

Well, it’s funny, I told this story a lot. I was at a dentist recently, and she said, “Hey, Jack, have you ever heard of ChatGPT?” I said, “I’ve never heard of it. What is it?” And she was like, “I can’t believe it. It did this crazy stuff,” and like she’s degree educated. She’s like around early 30s, and she was just understanding it. Like even my sister, she’s like a professional HR person in some company or something, and you know she does well, but dude, she doesn’t even use it. She just said AI is this cool thing. I’m like, “How are you not?” Obviously when I spoke to her like I was like, “How are you actually?” I could actually physically believe it. We get—I think cuz we’re in this like bubble of everyone’s really passionate about it. It’s easy to think that’s the majority. It really isn’t. Like most people don’t even know what the hell’s going on. And then I think to your point, you’ve got that like surface-level people that kind of might flirt with ChatGPT, ask it a question, but not scratching the surface on its potential. It’s so funny how many people there is like they know about ChatGPT and they think just by that they’re like tech-savvy, you know? Well, like—okay, here’s a question for you. How much do you think the use of AI has increased your effective output in terms of like IQ—not necessarily in terms of like making you more intelligent, but like your—your decision-making quality? Like what percentage increase do you think that’s actually driven for you?

I mean, there’s like decisions which I would not consult with AI because there’s—there’s some things you have to like develop a feel for this, right? There’s some things you should decide yourself, like, for example, what’s the next feature I should add in Vectal? I would never ask AI that; like I should know that, right? From users, from using myself, stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, overall, I don’t think the biggest—biggest gain is on decision-making. I think the biggest gain is like raw productivity. I mean, just building my SaaS, you know, building my startup took me two months to—to launch it; it would have taken me at least half a year, probably a year without that. So that is the huge gain, right? I can speak in plain English, and it can write like Next.js code. I know nothing about Next.js, but it can do it. So that’s the biggest gain—like doing the filling in the gaps where I have no expertise. But as long as I keep asking and, you know, I keep learning and I don’t give up after the first error, it’s all good.

Yeah, I think that’s it. I think there’s a big—it just automates really cool stuff, which is epic for me. I do think if you can ask it the right questions, I really rate it’s like influence on identifying blind spots and bolstering your like decisions on things. Um, like really weirdly wild example, like if you said, “Hey, I don’t know, I want to understand about tax in Dubai. Here are five questions I got.” Like genuinely, like a year ago, you’d be paying an expert thousands of dollars an hour for that, and you’re just getting it back for that. I mean, I—I think it’s—I mean, you can pretty much use it in almost—I’ve got a buddy who uses it for like absolutely every possible decision he ever makes.

Guess who? I mean, the issue with that is like it’s predicting the next token, right? And it’s—the training data is—

The web. So, like, you're almost making decisions as the average person on the internet. Like, if you think about it right now, obviously you can improve that with prompting and, you know, using the best possible model stuff like that. But I think the way you do it is much better, like if you consult with it and then make the decision yourself, right? Like, as an entrepreneur, that's what you get paid for. At a certain level, when you have employee stuff like that, you get paid for your judgment, your taste, your decision-making. So I don't think it's a good idea to outsource decision-making to AI. The way the re—like, when I do it is when I have zero expertise. Right, like if there's like a contract I need to review for a video and, you know, I just want to know like if this is good or if there's something unusual, then I review it obviously with Cloth and JBD. And if they say, like, "This is a tender contract, you know, it looks like this, blah blah blah," it's like, okay, good. I don't have to pay for a lawyer. I know that this is probably good.

I think it's like—it's non-sycophantic AI in the sense of, we—it just agrees with everything we say. It's about counsel. I see it as an advisor that throws, you know, ideas and constructs and different ways of thinking about it, and then you kind of grab what is relevant and do it. Actually, do you know one of the biggest things I've seen now, like, and you might see this, you know, with your community YouTube channel, is it's not even—people can easily drown in the sea of perceived opportunities with this technology, like how it can apply. And I think there's a bigger focus now with AI about, "Okay, I could do like a million things," right? Actually, the question becomes, "What is the stuff I should be focusing on?" Uh, and then actually doing the focusing bit—people are struggling, I'm finding, to really know which is the thing I should lock down on, like, 'cause you're not getting a—you want to maximize your return per unit of your intellectual capital.

And I—I was at a community meet-up yesterday, some people in Dubai. And uh, one guy, I said, "Dude, it's so easy just to watch YouTube videos and like—'cause if you—you can easily drown in a swarm of updates, right, man? I mean, you probably seen it as well, like, and you never end up actually doing the thing you need to do because you're just always like getting updated by like the new shiny objects." I mean, this has been always an issue. Obviously, AI makes it a bigger issue because, you know, you can build a quick MVP in one hour, right? Like you get an idea for a software that you and your team would need. But I think this is like, again, one of the skills of being an entrepreneur—the ability to focus, right? So I don't know. I think this will just weed out the people who get distracted easily. Yeah, they get it—it's easy to get distracted. Well, I—I did some psychographical analysis and I shared this with you on people in the AI space, and one of the biggest uh, fears is the fear of getting left behind. Yeah, that is what drives a lot of the intellectual capital to—um—new shiny—"You won't believe what just happened with this new thing"—videos. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, massively. Yeah, because they don't want to miss the next big unlock. I think it's evolutionary. Like, think about it. If there's a tribe and the tribe is moving somewhere, you don't want to be left behind. You don't—that's like the worst thing that can happen because, you know, 200—like 20,000 years ago, you would die. So, but here is the same thing—like, obviously you will not die if you miss AI, but like your career might get replaced, right? Or like your business might get out-competed. So there is serious consequences to ignoring AI, but there's also serious consequences to being distracted. Like if every week you're doing something else, you're not going to be good at anything.

You know that's true. I—I—I reckon it's better to be 100% focused on a level six opportunity than 20% focused on a level 10 opportunity. Yeah. You just commit to a decision and just go all in with it. Yeah. I mean, when I hear this, like, you know, I've met people like that. It's like, "Okay, I'm building this, I'm building that. I have a guy helping me there." It's like, okay, but you know there's someone who's like laser-focused on one thing—he's going to win. Yeah. So I mean, I—I have to struggle with this myself because there's so many opportunities to do, but like, you know, for me, I'm like YouTube and Vectal. Those are my main two things. Those are the two things. Yeah. Yeah, I like YouTube goes deep, man. Like the—the rabbit hole. Every time I think I'm approaching the bottom, I realize how little I actually know, which is near nothing. He's like constantly learning on these things. Um, you can go very deep on YouTube. Yeah. Massively. Same for me recently because I had a bunch of videos like nine out of 10, 10 out of 10. So I had to like reset, you know, get rid of the ego, humble myself. It's like, okay, let's jump on a two-day upload schedule. So that's what I'm doing right now. Before I was doing every four days and like, "Let's look at what my most successful videos are. Let's look at the differences between the flops. Experiment with new formats." You know, I was like probably too comfortable with the "build anything" format, which worked for me really well, but then I didn't experiment enough with new ones. So there's always like, you know, lessons you need to relearn, and YouTube always teaches you like nobody has got it figured out, right? Like even MrBeast experiment with new formats. Yeah, it has a beautiful way of humbling you, like YouTube does, and you're right, and it's also—YouTube is an unsolvable question because the nucleus—it's a constant moving target. Like, I—you know, I—I remember when I started doing videos on ChatGPT when it came out, you could just say "ChatGPT candle" you whatever it was, it would have gotten like 10,000 views, and then it was like all of a sudden, bam, like which wasn't getting views anymore. So it's like YouTube, and I think generally speaking, you—all you have to continue to make those pivots 24/7 with it. Same with DeepSeek. Like when DeepSeek was blowing up, you could just put "DeepSeek" in your title and it was like 100K views. Yeah. Isn't that wild? That is actually wild. I think it's supply and demand, you know? 'Cause like when there's a lot of demand for something and low amount of supply, low amount of videos, then each video on that topic goes viral. So this—this is like, I think one of the biggest things in the AI space—when everybody like is covering the news and doing the same thing, then you know there's a lot of competition. So do you—you think the opportunities in like identifying those topics early before they've got like the—Yeah—or going niche? That or going niche, like doing something that somebody else cannot do, right? Like you can build very advanced automations that most people cannot do. So that is your unique advantage.

Well, yeah, I mean, that is—you have to think about what you can say and speak on that other people cannot do. That. Actually, as well, the—the really weird thing about YouTube is the metrics are set up in such a way that it incentivizes you to get more views and engagement. And that's like the psychological tumbler you go through of like pursuing this like one out of 10 status. In reality, I've seen it because I track now uh, clicks on videos. And actually, weirdly enough, like videos that do—way perform—inverted comments by traditional standards—poorly—um—actually drive way more individuals to the community, and they find it valuable. So it's like, actually like you cannot worship the view god, like—and it's like, you know, views in service of what? Like, who's actually watched this? One of the funniest pieces of advice I got is if you treat your audience like monkeys, you know your channel becomes a zoo. Um, and you kind of attract a certain—a certain type of individual. But—but it's also—um—you're right. I think if you're starting off on YouTube, I think the hack is to go really freaking niche. Like really, really, really freaking niche. I agree with what you just said because like I try to avoid terms like "free," right? Like, "how to do this for free." Like, but that is going viral now. Like if you include "free" in—I noticed that 'cause I was looking at outliers and it was like if you just put the word "free" in the title. Yeah. But then again, you're attracting like low-quality people, right? So like if you have a product that you're selling, even if it's $30, if someone is like clicking on a video just because it says "free," they probably not going to buy it. That's true. But I—I like the beauty of YouTube. It's just like as long as you keep going, that's all that matters, you know? That is all that matters. Yeah. It's also, you know, it's like—did you find it's funny 'cause like you had a few videos that did like insane—like the dopamine hit—like I'm sure you've had—like how many have you had over a million views now? I mean, to be honest, I don't—like, multiple, but I—I don't get the dopamine hit from that. Yeah. Like, I—I don't know. Like, I've done it—YouTube for like five years. Literally, like five years ago, I've created my first channel, which was always a gaming channel. Yeah. But the—the real hit is the first time you blow up. Like first two years when I was doing YouTube, I was getting like between 100 and 1,000 views, right? Like nothing. And then I went from making like $200 a month to $20K a month in one month. That is when I was like crazy dopamine, right? But now like if I get a one out of 10, it's—it's cool, right? But it's not that same hit anymore. No, it's not. No, no, it's not. I remember the first time I had a video go kind of semi-viral. It was—Yeah—it was crazy. It was nuts. Um, but you're right. It's like—but then YouTube—you learn to go through the cycles of—you have to constantly keep improving and pivoting the content to be as valuable as humanly possible. I think it's like a smaller explanation of business. Like this is, you know, applies for any business. If you get too comfortable in your same—your product doesn't evolve, you know, you're not hiring new people—sooner or later someone is going to come in. If you have nice profit margins, they're going to destroy them, right? I think YouTube is just a faster—like—way of that. You see it faster because if you get comfortable on a format for a few months, boom, your views suddenly start dropping. Like, you know, there was this thumbnail format that worked for me really well, and then like 10 other channels started replicating it, and now it doesn't work anymore. So that was actually funny because now one of our best-performing thumbnail formats is one with my face that nobody else is using. So, you know, it's funny how that works. Isn't that really funny how that works? Yeah, that is actually crazy. Yeah, dude. You know, it's funny. I was talking to uh, a buddy of mine about this about—I say theft—like, don't necessarily—great artists steal, but that was one of the things I learned over the past like year, like building this like AI automation business, is that when you start doing well, people will steal—like—yeah, freaking immediately. Yeah. But I didn't—I didn't expect the extent to which that it would just be so unbelievable—like the—I was saying like I've had like—Yeah—I've seen your thumbs ripped—like exactly—screenshots, dude. And then like I even had it with my school community—like there—there's a community—literally, dude—I'm on about character by character—the whole bio—even my classroom—like the days that the events were on and what the events were called—completely—I think mine said, "If I don't 100x your investment, I'm not doing my job properly." They changed it to 10x, and I was like, "Dude, there's no way." You know, there's one guy who literally created a community that's a hybrid of mine and yours. Really? Even the name is like uh—so AI society automations with—it's like a literally a blend—like if you pasted both our communities into ChBD and say, "Create a hybrid of this," it would be his community. That's really funny. That's—initially I was like, "This is crazy," and then like—kind of where I got to—I don't know if you've thought about that—is like I just realized it's a big compliment, but it's also like—um—you better just put your intellectual capital towards being better and improving, and that's where I got to it, but like I—I was like shocked. I was like—'cause for me it's like, "Well, people will just know, right? Like they'll just see that you've just copied it. It doesn't make any sense why you would do that." But dude, it blew my mind. But this is why we have to keep experimenting because like if—you know—if we find a good CTA that works, other people start using it, and then it no longer works that well. So that's why you have to keep testing CTAs, you know, keep improving the about page. Like it's constant—like business is constant war. Yeah. It's constant pivoting. It's like you always have to make those one-degree, three-degree, five-degree pivots constantly. Yeah. Yeah. And when stuff isn't working, you have to go 50 degrees. And actually, one of the things I've been playing around with in my head is—it's easy to look at what's happening in the space. I actually—the view now—I think that can hamper your creativity. You kind of want to have your own pulse, your own bet on what you want to go—to be—to be—to back your originality and where you want to focus on. Um, because if all you—if all a creator does is see what else is working and does a version of it, then I think you're kind of—you're just limited to whatever the meta is. You're never going to break through and define a niche. And you—you did an amazing job with that, man. When you started creating content in AI and you went over to school, you know, you trailblazed that and—and—and led the way. So now every AI creator has a school community. Now every AI creates a school community. Yeah. So—um—you need to—you need to understand what the people want. But it's almost like—I—I bring it back to—I—the more I look at this, the more I realize it's actually—I—I—I wonder if it's actually really simple, which is if you just focus on—actually sit down and use your brain and think about what people want and just give them that—like the rest of it's just window dressing. It's like Bezos always says, right? The—the most fearsome competitors are the ones but don't even think about you—all they think about is a customer because they're in pursuit of the customer. You're just going where the puck is going—that—where the puck is. And the other quote is—are the puck—you kind of want to go for where it's going. Like this is exactly why, you know, startups where the founder is non-technical will fail, 'cause like if this—if the founder himself cannot understand like the product and cannot test it, you just cannot outsource it to an agency completely, right? So this is the same exact thing, and it applies to any business—like you have to be using the product yourself. You know, you cannot build a great gym if you don't work out. It's impossible. Impossible. Yeah, completely impossible. But one thing you said is that uh, usually the models like blindly agree, but recently I think there's two models that broken this curse because LLMs are basically built to agree, right? Like next token prediction, unless you say something ridiculous obviously, but like right now Gemini 2.5 Pro and GPT 4.5 are the only two models from my experience that will tell you like, "No, that's wrong." If you tell it like, "Change this file to implement that"—not only like most models—maybe Claude 3.5 would change that file and then mess up your codebase. But these two models say like, "No, actually that file looks good. Maybe you want to make changes here." Oh, that's good. So it's—it's getting better that models no longer blindly agree. Yeah, that's kind of what you want them to do. You want them to be an intelligent objector if they don't agree. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. That's—that's fantastic. That's the main difference between LLMs and humans right now. 'Cause like, you know, if you—if you say to an LLM like, "Yeah, I've been feeling kind of lazy. You know, I've been skipping the gym." Say like, "Oh yeah, maybe it's because you're depressed, blah blah blah." Your friend will be like, "Yo, what the fuck?" That's—I want—I want them to say, "Dude, you're dropping the ball. You're being lazy. You need to get back after it. You need to crush it, dude." That's what I want to hear. I actually always say to language models, I said, "Dude, tell me if you disagree with me." By the way, I—I actually always give it that prompt. I don't want to have to do that. I want it to be freaking roasting me. It'd be cool if you could actually preset that. I know you can do with custom instructions, but it's more fine-tuning. Yeah, it needs more fine-tuning. It needs more fine-tuning. Yeah, definitely 100%. But now the good thing about ChatGPT is that they improved the way it can like recall memory because before it had the long-term memory which had to save into—but now it can reference old chats that are not saved in the long memory. So you can say like, "List out all the topics you talked about in the last 30 days," and with the latest update that came out like three days ago, it can now do that. That is freaking awesome. That—that is a really, really, really good update because it was my experience—like I'd have like a chat and I'd go really deep. Yeah. On a subject, and then once it ended, I'm like, "I've got to now restart the whole conversation in a brand new chat." So I'm actually—the thing I'm most looking forward to is Sesame uh, with an extremely long memory—that level of—um—and I'd say the key differentiator is it already solved the IQ problem. It hadn't solved the EQ—the emotional intelligence problem. Sesame does that. That's the next—like—that's the next thing for um, voice AI. I think that'll be absolutely huge. To be fair, by the way, just like with the internet and Bitcoin, most people are going to completely miss out on the AI revolution. So don't be one of them and get started today. In the New Society, you can find advanced step-by-step tutorials: How to build your first AI agent, how to build your own AI startup, prompt engineering, how to make your first thousands with AI, and so much more. So if you want to start making money with AI, then make sure to join the New Society. You don't need any programming experience. All you need is 30 minutes a day. And of course, we will help you every step of the way. So if you want to start making money with AI agents, join the New Society. The link is below the video. The—the voice thing—it's like a different mod—even if it's the same model—the fact that it's a different modality just causes people to use it in a completely different way. Yeah. Like the fact that you can speak to it, right? It's—it's a very different feeling. Like the first time I used GPT voice, it's kind of surreal. It is surreal. Yeah. I mean, like, even a buddy of mine, he's—he's a PhD in AI, but you know, he told me, "To be honest with you, dude, he's like, 'I don't even know what that really means.' Any—I—I—I sent an assessment. I was like, 'Dude, try this out, tell me what you think about it.'" His mind was blown. He—he's not aware of a lot of the application stuff. And I think that's like—AI now is so—such a huge term—it could mean like a million different things. Do you know what I mean? You could be in cybersecurity AI. You may have no idea about applications or like what's going on with the SaaS side of things. Um, so dude, all that to say like it is—yeah—growing exponentially. Then different modalities like definitely make it more accessible. So you would like something like ChatGPT voice but powered by Sesame with like a 10-million context window. Yeah, that'd be cool. I think it's possible to build—to be honest. Dude, have you seen Black Mirror, the recent season? Okay, so there's this concept, and actually dude gave me this—they told me this idea—I think it's awesome. This idea that, you know, when we start—when a technology hits a certain threshold, which it is approaching—it's not there yet—there's so many different interesting business types that begin to emerge. One of them is the ability to create a digital codex of a human. Okay? Say, for example, if someone in your family passes away, um, and they—they create a library of content, you know, being able to feed it that data—capturing their voice, which we could do with the recording—you could actually have conversations with that individual far after they've gone. And especially if you could—if you service it—I mean, it's funny just to spar around this idea because I think it's really interesting. Like if you have someone who knows they're terminally ill and they want the ability for AI to—I don't know—speak to them after they've gone, you could say, "Great," you know, because like—I—I know there's these bucks that candid around sometimes where you give it to somebody—say, "Hey, like, what was your first memory? What—what was this like?" Actually, AI can replace that—like if you imagine you gave them like a sphere or something kind of like futuristic that—and it just asked them questions and it spent time with them—it was in their pocket—it listened to their conversations and it could pick up on all the mannerisms—what they did—what they were thinking about—it would—it would gather data for weeks, and then once you captured their tone of voice, you could hologramify the individual, and then they could become a—um—you know, a hologram that the family could chat to going forward. Not everybody would want that, but some people would definitely want that, and it's like we're not that far away from that. I think the biggest issue is actually not getting the context. The biggest issue is the architectural—if I gave you everything I know, it would just be you with my knowledge because like if you tell ChatGPT—if you somehow extracted all the knowledge and told it into ChatGPT, it's ChatGPT with your knowledge. You need to change the neural network, right? So it's not enough to just get that info from the dying person—the—the main thing is almost like monitoring their brain waves because you need to create a neural network that matches their neural network in their brain. Well, you would—I think if you were going to do—I mean there's different levels of this that exist, right? Level one is just really bad, and Level 10 is like indistinguishable. If you wanted to progress up a level hierarchy, you would want to start capturing things like facial expressions, uh, heart rate—like how—and really get into the psychology of what they're doing and how they're moving. Like we've got like Neuralink now that can like let people Mario Kart with no use of their hands. Like I think it's just data in—intelligent processing—and data out. Like I—I think it could probably track things that you don't even realize are possible. Like—and I'm not saying that this can be made today, but I think we're not that far away from a technology point where you can do really exciting things. Like we can already—I mean, did you see the direwolves got bought back recently? Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Amazing. And did you know what's really interesting about that is the guy that created the company is a non-technical guy. He's a bro with an idea and liked Game of Thrones and said, "Let's do it." And he inspired and executed his vision with other people. And we're just at the point—and I—I could be wrong—but I believe he said it may not have been possible without the AI to actually like do a lot of the heavy lifting. But it's this—AI now is—

Enabling us to, like, create such incredible ideas. And I think you know I, I talk a lot about how you can generate, you know, you do as well, like actual value and money with AI, but there's also this really interesting concept of just the wild, crazy ideas that you can now execute. And like I actually would encourage people, um, even myself, like if you have an idea, even if it can't be done yet, create like a, like a level one version of it that is just absolute garbage, and then as the technology comes up, you can start to like build that out.

Yeah, I mean the MVP is like, for anything, can be created so fast now, it's, it's insane.

Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of people get stuck after that, you know, like turning the MVP into a real business.

Yeah. Well, dude, it takes seven years to become an overnight success. And the technology is one part of the puzzle. And you know, business is really difficult. And a lot of people don't recommend it. And they don't recommend it because, dude, you got to be so freaking resilient, dude. I don't know if you've had that. I've had times, dude. I remember my first startup where, dude, they promised the world, dude. We're going to go live because I had like 3,000 new customers a month this time. He's like, "Jack, we're going to sell these services. It's going to be like 30k a month. You're going to, you're going to be on the beach sipping piña coladas." And I was like, "This is great." And I was like, "I'm still working my day job at that time." And um, I was like, "This is so cool." And then we went live. Uh, and then it was like, I don't know, $65 or something. And it was like so freaking deflating. And you're like, you know, you, you, you realize, okay, you got to be resilient. Like this is an important skill set. And then you bounce back, and then you kind of figure it out. And then you just kind of grow and scale it from there. But this is why I think there's got to be probably a good expectation setting on this stuff about you are not going to be, you would be unusual if you became, if your first business was a million-dollar business. That's not typical, but it's a question of if, question of when, not if, if you are prepared to stick the course and and run with it.

I mean, that's the literally the main thing, like all you need to do is to succeed in business is never quit and keep improving. Yeah. Just like the faster you can keep improving, and as long as you never quit, you're going to win, you know, that's it, it, like, it's simple but not easy, right? And with AI, you can learn those business lessons faster. You can say, like, okay, I'm about to hire my first developer. You know, before you would go completely blind, but now you can say, okay, what are the five biggest mistakes that new, new startup founders make when hiring a back-end developer? What are the 10 questions I should ask on the screen interview? And you get like this, such a huge jump that maybe, you know, in the past you would have to do 10, 20 screening interviews to get the same information that one prompt to, you know, ChatGPT 3 or GPT 4.5 will get you. So I think it's just like speeds up the process. While in the past maybe it would take decades to become a millionaire, now anybody can do it like in three years.

I think yeah, was actually one of my thoughts on like it does one of two things: one is it either reduces cognitive load, so it does the thinking for me, um, so I don't have to figure it out, like reading a contract, or it reduces the number of executions of time I had to do something. And one crap I see people getting into is they will spend, I don't know, an hour to get AI to solve a problem they could have done themselves in 20 minutes.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's an intelligence thing about like, am I getting an ROI on my investment with that? I mean, it's always a classic automated thing. I will automate, I'll spend a week automating something that cost me five minutes every time.

Yeah. But I would say like, on average, that is good, you know, because like if you have that mindset that you're going to automate something, most people don't automate anything, right? And there's like processes where it's like so inefficient that creating the automation would take you just like one time doing it, and then each week after that it's free time. So yeah, I would say it's probably better to like over, overindex on that, you know, I'm going to try solve this with AI, well, if you did it yourself, because then you have to lesson, right? You like, okay, this took way too long of AI, I would have knew it myself, and then you remember that. So like you're almost fine-tuning yourself in real time, because if you never tried that, you know, same with the automations, like, okay, I automated this, I spent three hours building automation, but it only saves me like 20 seconds per week, right? But then you know, like, okay, some things are not worth automating, so like I think you need those fails to, you do. And actually there's this fallacy of the perfect path, which says that I will make the perfect beeline, it's like, no, you're not, you're going to wind up in the wasteland.

Yeah, so many people have this, and that's where they never start. They don't, they absolutely don't. I mean, like a good example I give to you is it's like a really simple, silly example, but I learned Premiere Pro editing two years ago. That was one of the highest leverage skills I picked up. But what people don't know is I also learned Adobe After Effects, and I, I, I float in 3D titles for about a week. But it was like that obviously didn't translate into anything, but you're never going to get 100% strike rate on the skills that you invest in. So you just need to, but you don't need to either, by the way, you just, you do 10, if one of them hits that pays for all your losers and then some.

It's the classic power law, even with Silicon Valley investing, right? Yeah. They get 20 companies, like when I was raising for, they said, "Dude, one of them pays for the other 19. That's just basically the way the rocks and roll." It's also the same principle with skill investment and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. This is so sad, like how many people just never start because they look for the perfect opportunity, right? It's like, "Oh, I don't have the right startup idea. I don't know what automation to build. I don't know what." It's like you're never going to know. You're not going to know. Perfect is the enemy of success. There's no question about that. And my first business didn't make any money. Like it was a mobile game, and I, I spent like 10 months building it. I launched it. It got like a thousand downloads but made zero dollars. Yeah. Like imagine if you tell somebody you're going to work 10 months on a business almost full-time hours and it's going to make zero dollars. It's like, what, why? I would just work at McDonald's, right? This is like the, the stupidest arguments, like, oh, you would have made more if you worked at McDonald's. It was like, that's not the point. It's not, it's like you're not getting, you are getting paid. You're just not getting paid in pounds and pans yet. You're getting paid on experiences and skills which translate into money. Which is why actually if you think about it realistically, one of the tenants of, again, I'm not an expert in this stuff at all, I'm just kind of figuring out like everyone else, but one principle that's I've seen work a lot for people is they just think of longer time periods. They're just willing to do it for a long period of time. Like if you started YouTube and said, if I don't make any progress in three months, you may as well not start. Like you may, like, possibly, but you need to be ready to do it for a really long period of time, uh, because that means that's going to help you ride out the peaks and the troughs of it.

Yeah. Personally, I'm like so locked into this mindset that I cannot even relate. There's no situation in which like, even if all of my, you know, you, my bit, like YouTube got banned or you removed my paid community, you destroyed my startup. There's 0% chance like, oh well, I guess I'm going to go back to a 9-to-5. Like no, there's no world. There's no world I would go back, like in Czech Republic, live for like, you know, 1k a month and just like I would work 20 hours a day. There's no like world, you know, I would say like, okay, I guess, you know, if the next YouTube video doesn't do well, I, I'll back it up. It's like, what? Yeah. You'd figure it out. Exactly. You'll figure it out. And like that, like mindset of we will figure it out. But it's also look at what you've done before. You've always figured it out. Like you.

Yeah. But I guess that comes from like, I don't know how much of that do you think it's like, build, you need to build the proof, right? Cuz some people, if, if they don't do that in the early years, they need to do that later, and then it's harder. But I mean, it's tough cuz I, I don't know, like I get it's easy to get imposter syndrome, um, but you have to back yourself, and like people who have this almost delusional belief that they'll crush it. I mean, that was interesting that I, I think it was someone was saying this that like founders that have a delusional view on what they can do is positive, and you actually see this, like this advice echoed from loads of investors, like actually that's why, like not knowing the industry in some respect is a good thing because you're not, you're not going to be deterred from doing it by challenging the status quo because of that. Yeah. So it's like you do need an unreasonable belief in yourself to make it happen. But I think that's like a lot of that is just nature, like how you're born.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I guess that's tough actually. Like it's really knowledge is the big driver of the outcome and quality, I think. Knowledge plus, I mean, like to know and not do is the same as not knowing. So it's knowledge plus, plus, plus action. That's the, that's the key bit. Like you got to know, and then you got to execute. And I, it's actually wild to me, like we're talking about universities yesterday. Like in the UK, it's £9,000 a year. Crazy. Um, and so you end up pretty much, like after accommodation stuff, like 50k a year, and the interest rates like 5 or 6%. So the majority of people won't pay it off. So it basically functions as a student tax. But then you look at decentralized education, like the value of content on YouTube now and also in communities is unbelievable. Like your return on investment per dollar spent is just completely unmatched with that sort of stuff. Um, so I, I think it's, there's not a knowledge problem, it's an execution problem. I mean, if someone joined your community, which is what 50, uh, $77? Okay, $77, and learned everything in there, like they instantly have a six-figure skill. You know, if you become an expert AI automation builder, that's a six-figure skill. Like so any business needs it, any business, any, there's so many applications. It's exactly the same with your community, did. It's like just learning and applying is crazy. And it's like my whole thing was, no one, no, there's a lot of stuff people just never explain to you. And that's kind of what I, know you tried to do, I tried to do, so like if I was just speaking to myself, like what is just the, the freaking nonsense 20% of stuff that actually freaking works and just actually freaking do that. But the, the thing is like you never want to fully just follow like one person. I think it's good to get information from different things. But the, the only caveat to that is you can be trying to execute too many strategies at the same time, for sure, and then, then none of them end up working.

Well, that's why I think it's actually probably on average better to follow one person, cuz like, you know, if you follow like three different people, one guy's teaching this, other guy's teaching that, you know, like you're trying to flip properties and then, like, detail cars and then, like, drop shipping, it's like.

Yeah, drop shipping, all the crazy stuff actually. Yeah, it's, it's absolutely wild, dude. But yeah, I mean, if you stick to one thing and you know you get the best at it, like every business model works, right? Yeah. It's like even the simplest ones, like lawn mowing, dry cleaning, there's billion-dollar companies in those, right? So yeah, it's, it's like, it's funny, I don't know if your experience, but my experience has always been like long periods of like consistency and then like a burst of like huge, like 10x event, and then loads of consistency, then 10x event, and you do get points where you just continue to grow and improve, but it's more like you're moving things in the margins. Like I always find like you have low, like a massive learning period, and then all the learning catches up. Your results catch up with your learnings, and you, you want a learning surplus against your results, not the other way around. I mean, it's the same with like any aspect in life, you know, like if you go to the gym, you go to the gym for like 10 years or whatever, you know, depends how hard you're training, but like for, for the first 90%, I would say like you, you will get almost no validation, you know, you'll see slow progress, but in the last 10%, it's like exponentially you get compliments, you start like getting better results everywhere, and you start like being strong, you know, stuff like that. Same in dating, like if you start with nothing, let's say, you know, you're fat, not successful, whatever, like you'll go years without like any interest, and then like once you are successful, once you are in great shape, everything you'll get like infinite, all the results options.

Yeah, 100%. It's interesting how it works that way, man. It's the same in business, same in YouTube, you know.

Yeah. It's like, it's like people can, it's easy to say this mindset stuff's not viable. It's a, it's a core stuff. It's like if you don't, I believe if you stripped away these fundamental beliefs, it's tough to make any of it work. You need to have these, like, fundamental.

Yeah. I mean, if you believe you can do it, like that's the main thing, right? I, I, I don't think you need to be an IQ genius. Like as long as you can believe you can do it, you can compensate for, you know, lack of intelligence or whatever with these AI tools, but like if you try every day, if you put in two, three, four hours every single day, and you just are refusing to give up, like sooner or later you're going to make it.

Yeah. Well, it's that thing about like IQ is important up to a threshold, then it's not that you get no benefits. It's just a diminishing return of value per additional IQ point; the rest of it is going to be action, learning, resilience, and just improvement over time. It's like I find it really interesting when you have, um, you speak. It's why like I feel your network's really important because it can reset the standard of what the thing is, like either reset the standard of what work is. Like if you, if you meet a buddy and they're working like twice as hard as you, you're like, "Holy crap, I need to like completely level up my game a little bit." I mean, it's impossible to be fat if you were like four friends are bodybuilders, right?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So this is like a huge thing. And again, these are like the basics of self-improvement, right? That everybody learns, but, uh, that's, that's the core of life, applies always at all levels. So if you like, if nobody you're talking to in your life is interested in AI, join a community where people are interested in AI. You know, make some friends. Like that's how to get better at it in the easiest way. Instead of swimming upstream, just like make the water flow where you want to flow.

Well, dude, it's just the difficulty setting on your life is your environment and your friends. Like if you've got guys and girls around you that are after the same thing you're after and are pushing you forward, you're just going to win more because it's just like they'll say, "Hey, bro, no, come back over here. You're making some mistakes." It's like it sounds so silly. Like I, I was speaking to, um, uh, a friend of mine and I said, "Dude, I think you have a real gift for creativity. I think you're really gifted in this particular thing." And I said, "You should go and pursue that." But then I, my last words to him were like, and it was unsolicited, but I, you know, I really want this guy to do well. I said, "You need to surround yourself with people that are doing something similar." I said, "Because like if you don't, like it's just going to be really difficult for you to go make this work. Like you need to be around people that are doing it. Um, friends in your area and stuff."

Yeah. So it's like your, your environment is critical. Yeah. Okay. So if you were a complete beginner and you wanted to get into AI, what would be your first few moves? I say I'm a big believer in personal foundations. So when I think about like, okay, business first, then I'm going to drill down context to AI, like, you know, you cannot create, uh, a significant, or it's going to be difficult for you to create a significant income with AI if your personal fitness is way out of whack, if your personal finances are way out of whack, if you're not learning, if you're not growing. So I, a big believer in personal foundations, if you want to start with AI, it would depend on what your objective is. I would say regardless of where you're at, AI can improve your life in multiple ways. The first step I'd say is personal usage, grabbing AI and just using it and applying it for many different things. Once you've done that and you're getting used to the kind of way these models work, I am a big believer in the value created by AI automations, and I'd go ahead and I'd start building my very first one and developing it that way. But there's no way around just using it and then start building out step from step, I think now.

Yeah. I mean, it has to be useful for your life, right? Like you can watch YouTube videos, stuff like that, but everybody's life is different, and if you're not like asking it about your problems, then it's not going to be useful for you. Same with the automations. Like you can replicate some automations you've seen on your channel or my channel, whatever. But like the best automation is going to be the one relevant to your business, your life.

Yeah. And here's a funny thing. So I've met hundreds of people from my community, right? I have never met two people that are doing the exact same thing. And one thing I found people struggling with at the moment is this imposter syndrome. And I said, well, okay, I spoke to a guy. He had a really good background in business, cyber security. I said, "Dude, that's your unique edge, like you're bringing all this depth and complexity with your knowledge in cyber security to the table. Plus you're now leveraging AI on top of that. Like that's unique, dude. No one else has got that. Like you need to, and it's like everyone can do it, it's AI plus all the stuff you bring to the table. Like that's what creates this unique thing. Like you don't have to, like there's far less people trying to do the thing that you want to do than than actually are."

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're like, you know, a chiropractor, you don't have to be a genius at AI. If you understand a bit of AI and you're good at, you know, being a chiropractor, then you can create like the best AI channel for chiropractors. Boom. That's like 50k a month. That's it. It's like you're there cuz they're just not doing it. You're just targeting a niche where you have your unique advantage. And so many people, this is another huge mistake. They like reset every time, right? So instead of their first business building on top of the second business, right? Like my previous was a gaming channel, and now with AI channel, it's building on top of it. They like completely pivot, right? So like they, their second business is like completely unrelated, their first business is completely underrated, and they're starting from zero each time. Like sure, there are some lessons that apply everywhere, but like if you're going to pivot, make sure it builds on top of each other.

Yeah. It's like I think people typically do that cuz it's comfortable. They've done it before, they can just do it again. It's like see the progress from zero to five, but like going from five to six is hard, right? But if you go from 0, 5, 0, 5, 0, 5. But dude, I, I don't know if you found this, like my biggest failures in life, like when I've gone through those growth periods, like it feels the worst feeling ever. And it's like you get the, but that's when you're in your growth zone. That's when you're actually growing, and you're getting ready to level up. When you're at that worst point where you're like, I don't know how I'm going to get out of this. Oh my god. Like I'll give you an example, dude. We bought a house, and I got made redundant from my job. The day we bought it, we both got made redundant. We're like, dude, we got this big house. We didn't have our jobs. And I was like, well, we need, we're going to figure it out. And then we end up getting like, you know, so it was like, and you're thinking, crap, we need to figure it out. And then you apply yourself. And then the end result of that story was we getting like better jobs, better-paying jobs at the time, and we crushed it. But it was like, and I, that kind of taught me that a lot of, and I've seen this scenario so many times in my life, when you feel you're losing control or things are going the wrong direction, that's actually the time when you're getting ready to level up because you have to push out and perform better. And so one thing I want to try to be better at is risk-taking and being more bold with the risks that you take because you'll probably succeed with it anyway if you try.

Actually, a similar thing happened to me, completely different situation, but like the same concept is that when I was before I went into YouTube, I was doing like video editing for Facebook ad creatives, right? So like drop shippers, every drop shipper needs a Facebook ad video edited, right, for their product. So I was, I was doing that video editing and I was doing the lead generation in like the drop shipping communities on Facebook, Facebook groups, right? One day I just got banned from Facebook ads completely randomly, and that was like basically my leads, you know, that was my lead generation. I was like, okay, this is it. I took like a 15-minute cold shower. I was like, I'm not going back to this. I hate this. I'm going on YouTube. And like that was the month where I first had my first successful video. It's like I, I logged in completely. I was like, I'm going on YouTube. I need to make at least $15 a day. That was my, you know, Czech Republic calculation. I was like, $15 a day, that's what I need. And I was like, this is possible, right? And like most people would probably quit at that point. Like your main business, it was making like 1k, 1.5k a month, you know, the video editing business just lost all the leads. So I was like, "This is the time to pivot. This is the time to like go into YouTube because I hate this so much." And yeah, the outcome was obviously YouTube would've made me way more money. So yeah.

Isn't that really funny though? It's like those like, and it makes you, have you had this idea of like, if it's a mile away, you will walk. If it's two miles away, you will drive, but you'll actually get there quicker if you drive. It's like the danger zone is where it's kind of comfortable, sometimes.

Yeah, I have this saying, sometimes bad is worse than terrible. If something is terrible, like if you have a stone in your shoe, and...

You know, it's like hurting really bad; you take it off. But if it's like some small pebble, it isn't that bad; you'll keep walking with it, right? You would tolerate it.

Yeah. It's like good is the enemy of excellent. And it's that kind of taking those risks and just pushing out and smashing it.

Yeah. But one thing I recently realized on the topic of risk is that there is no risk. Like so many people just see risk in ways that it's not risky at all. I think like the only real person who understands is Elon; he's just constantly willing to risk everything. But if you think about it, like what is the biggest risk, right? Like even for us, like we have probably family members that would allow us to stay at their place, right? So even if we lost everything, okay, worst case, we moved to some owned, you know, second-room garage, and we work there. It's like, is that really that bad? It's no. It's like the worst possible scenario is not even that bad.

Yeah. So I, I think like I really believe in the concept of there is no risk. Almost anybody that sees like, "Oh, that's risky," like really, like what's the worst-case scenario? Like, you know, if you have some savings, if you have some family members, some friends, some people that you helped in the past, like unless you're completely homeless without anybody, then like you're not going to die. You know, there's it's so hard to be in a situation where the downside will like put you in prison or you'll die.

Yeah. It's like this. So I, I resonate so much, like even Bezos saying this recently, that the risks are less than you think; the opportunities are greater than you think. It's like, yeah, you, you want to be emboldened; like, actually, what is the downside? Because the reason why people don't take risks, I believe, is because it is a defined cost for an undefined benefit. That's the reason why: I lose something by trying this; what if it doesn't work? Well, what if it does work actually? And it's that strike rate fallacy of I have to be 100% correct. So you, there's something about trying to take speculative bets on yourself. People do it on investments all the time, right? They do it on crypto, they do it on Ripple, whatever it is, but how many speculative bets do you take on yourself? And you're, you're infinitely more valuable. You get the compounding effects of that knowledge, and there's benefits for the rest of your life.

And I mean, I was watching a podcast recently with Joe Rogan. Ili He's like the flyweight champ. He's just moved up. One thing I love about his mindset was if somebody else has done it, he said, "Well, I can do it," and if it hasn't been done before, "I'll be the first one to do it." And that's like really freaking—you should have this kind of mindset because it emboldens you to try it and push out and just freaking go for it and smash it.

Yeah. This reminded me of a different quote: It's like there are two types of things to never worry about: things you can't change and things you can. Yeah. So then you realize like there's nothing to worry about because if you can't change it, you can't change it. If you can change it, then do something and change it.

Yeah. Because I, I love you're really big on that stoic—I've become more stoic over the past couple of years. And I, I, I just see everything from a lens of return on investment on energy spend. And I get to the point I'm like, "Can I influence the outcome?" If the answer's no, then I put it over there. And actually, a big thing for me, bro, was like coming to the realization that you are always going to have fires burning at some time, and you don't need to—and I'm the kind of guy that I like to—I would rather have like clarity and get it done, sit down at the table and just get it figured out. I struggled with having multiple things that were unresolved at the same time till I realized like that's actually the state—that's the cost of doing this stuff is you're going to have things that just burn slightly in the background. And when I became comfortable with that, uh, I just focused on areas of my control.

Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah, definitely a big change. Yeah, I brainwashed myself in the same way. Like recently, when anytime something bad happens, like for example, recently my AdSense got taken away; I lost like 8, $9,000 from YouTube revenue, and I was like, okay, obviously you, you get like pissed in the moment, but then I was like instantly I switched my mind into like, "This is why most people are entrepreneurs; like they couldn't handle this. Most people would quit this moment right away," and like instantly put a smile into my face like, "Okay, no big deal; I'm going to solve this, and this is why I get to reap the benefits of being in business."

That's true. It is, it's that, it is that mindset of this is where most people quit.

Yeah, I 100% agree with that. But it's also, it's, it's your time frame. You're looking at it from a position of like today; like you just got to broaden out and look at your trajectory and what you're doing, and then you'll get a better perspective on it.

Yeah. But the again, ability to think long-term is super rare, cuz like this is, this is where people like finance their DoorDash, you know.

Yeah, that's true actually. Yeah. People get into long-term debt. People like everybody sacrifices. I've seen a crazy stat: 60% of people going to—right now it's Coachella—60% of people going to Coachella finance their ticket.

Really? 60%? Wow. So you go into debt to listen to music; it's like, what? That is ridiculous.

Okay. Why do you think that is? Short-term thinking. Like everybody is—you know, this is why people like eat unhealthy food or skip the gym. It's like short-term comfort for long-term success. I heard a girl once say to me, like she was buying something, uh, from a shop, and she looked, and someone whipped her credit card out, and someone, someone just made an off-handed comment to like, "Oh, have you, can you afford that, by the way?" She said, "I don't know; that's a, that's a future me problem." And she pinged it. And I was like, that's so funny, cuz like the way I try to think about—I want to like—you want to make life easier for yourself in the future, not more difficult. But that financial education thing is huge. You actually take it for granted when you know—I remember when I just started my grad scheme after my degree, and I was like, "I need to buy a house, right? I need like 10k to buy a house in 20"—like what was this, like 2016 or something—and I was like, "Dude, how the hell do you do that? That's crazy," and then someone showed me the budget, and I was like, "Okay, that makes sense," and then went down the whole rabbit hole: Rich Dad Poor Dad, Dave Ramsey, all that sort of stuff, and built up my financial education to the point where like I was freaking locked in; every single pound had a mission; I was investing like 40%, blah, blah, blah, blah. But before that, you don't know, and you take financial education—it's easy to judge people based on the yard stick of your years; you have to like put, "Where was I when I was that age?" But it really, like it baffles me.

Yeah, it really does baffle me. I try—I have a lot of compassion for people that like are able to pledge that stuff. But for me, like I just, I could never—I could never like—but I think this is like the system is designed this way. Like it could easily be taught in school. There's so much time in school; you know, why isn't there like one hour per week teaching the basics of—

I think the teachers don't know.

Well, yeah, but the—I mean, the educational system is designed that way.

Well, I, I, my belief, like in the UK, like it's funny that like, you know, you go through school and you have like one view of it, like these teachers are held up as—you think of them as like experts in like life or whatever they're doing—and then you become an adult and you reflect back on the memory; you see it through a new lens, and you realize actually they didn't really know what the hell they were talking about in almost anything they were saying. Um, and like, yeah, we're not taught basic financial stuff. Like the UK is a good example of this, man, because we have what I call a one-wrong economy. The idea was—David, like you and I pay into our pensions; they're going to say, "Great, awesome; we're going to ring fence that; we're going to invest it," and then when you're 65, 70, and you want to do whatever, it's going to be there. No, no, no; your pension, what you pay in pension is paying the current pensioners, cuz we squandered their money. It's ridiculous. They'd be far better off putting 5k, 10k per new child born in an index fund global tracker and then for 65 years, and then they would all retire millionaires. That would be so much freaking better to do that way, but it's not, and it will collapse once it goes up like this. And so I, I say this to say you cannot depend on the government to solve your problems. You really can't.

Like, yeah, it's, it's bad. There's so many topics I want to touch here; it's crazy. But yeah, pensions will soon explode because the newer generations are smaller than the last generation, right? Like people are not having kids. Like 2.1 kids per couple per woman is the replacement rate, right? The average in Europe is like what, 1.4, 1.5? Obviously, there's countries like—there's countries like Japan and South Korea is even worse, right? But still, you need to have at least 2.1 kids. This—I think like the, the conversation needs to change from like, "Oh, do you want to have kids or not?" I think it needs to change to like, "Why don't you have kids?" Or like, "Why don't you have three kids?" You know? Cuz like, think about it. Everybody says the excuse is like, "Oh, I don't know if it's the right time; I don't know if it's financially responsible." People like, if you go four generations back, you know, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, what, what did our like ancestors do? The men worked in a coal mine six days a week, 14 hours a day. They had like no money, barely survived, eight kids.

That's it. That's it.

Well, they would argue, if they were playing devil's advocate, that it was easier to do it, but I still think—

Yeah, we're at a point now where it's—you're unusual if—Okay, my parents had like—I'm sure yours as well—like so freaking young. Now, if you're in your 20s and you have a kid, it's almost seen as you're having children quite young. We've definitely changed the standard of that in our society now. People having kids later and actually a lot less kids. But it's fine if you're a man because you can have kids in your 70s, right? But if this is like Robert De Niro, right? Robert De Niro, yeah, Robert De Niro. Yeah. But for women, it's so, so damning. It's crazy. Three is the minimum amount above 2.1. If you have two kids, the society is dying because some people die before they have kids, right? You know, if your kid dies at 14 and gets hit by a bus, then that kid cannot replicate. So you need to have at least 2.1 kids, which means three. So three is the minimum. So anything less than three should be like looked down upon. That's how we need to shift it because otherwise, like we're just dying out.

But how do you, how do you change like society's view on that? I guess it's like—to be fair, we convince people to use diamond rings for engagement. It's like that psychological influence of the population is important. You got to get them like fired up and believing that they want kids again. But look at all the like media and newsletters and stuff like that. You know what is it telling women? Don't rely on men; you know, like you need to be independent women. This is like the biggest dream of any women right now: to be an independent girl.

Yeah, it's damaging. Yeah, it's definitely damaging. Yeah, for sure. Kids are not being promoted. It's like what's being promoted is like kid-free life. They show a couple on the beach, right? It's like, "Oh, kid-free life; you can travel the world." It's like having kids is like one of the best bets you can make. Cuz if you ask a parent, "Do you regret having kids?" it's like 99 to 1, 99% chance they say, "Of course not; like I love my kid."

Right. Yeah. Very small percentage of parents would say like, "I wish my kid didn't exist." I'm surprised there's even 1% either. That's like crazy. I'm, I'm giving an example, like you know, 99 to 1, but like it's one of the best bets you can make in life. Where else do you have odds that like, "If I make this decision, 99% I'm going to be very happy that I made it; 1% or you know, less than 1% that I didn't." There's not many bets in life like that. You know, maybe like going to the gym is another one, but like 99 to 1 is crazy. So having kids and having a lot of kids is probably one of the best decisions anybody can make statistically.

I love how passionate you are about this stuff, man. It's like this—well, I mean, what's the alternative? Like, see this topic, like it's hard to talk about because, um, the ultimate conclusion that we're dying out—that's the ultimate conclusion, right? Cuz like if you don't have enough kids, you're dying out. But that—I think like the problem with that is like people won't make decisions based on humanity's future because they're so focused on their own lives.

I think so. Like I think repopulation of the planet probably ranks somewhere near like zero on their decision to have children.

Yeah. That's got to be driven by the governments, I think. I think it, it goes hand in hand because if you do have children, then you care about the future of the world more. If you don't have kids, you can be maximally selfish, and you don't care about inflation; you don't care if Europe goes to [ __ ].

Yeah, that's interesting, man. Well, yeah, I mean, like for me, I think kids are—I mean, like my perspective is I always kind of wanted to get to a certain level before I had—like I think, like guys is my experience, I usually ready slightly later than girls, um, which is I thought was quite interesting. But dude, I'm looking forward to that chapter of my life. But it's, it's like, it's one of the biggest undertakings you could ever do, and you got to treat it like a lot of like, yeah, care, due diligence with it, I think.

So is that, is your vision then, man, to raise a family in Dubai, or would you—in a different, a different country?

Yeah, this is a hard question. I mean, personally, I'm from Czech Republic, which isn't as bad as the UK. Um, I would say actually it's one of the best spots, like Czech Republic and Poland; amazing countries. Poland is—I think after the Cold War—had the biggest growth of economy; Poland is like very anti-immigration, very safe. I think it's the only country in Europe with zero terrorist attacks. Poland is, is great. So either Poland or Czech Republic, but again, it's, it's difficult to see where it will be in 10, 20 years, you know. So, um, the thing about Dubai is I don't think it's like a—it's almost like not like a real place, you know? It's like almost too safe, you know? I don't know; I feel like I would much rather have my kids in central or eastern Europe, which still is kind of normal compared to the west, than Dubai. But personally, I don't think I'll be in Dubai forever. Yeah, I think like maybe like one to three more years, and then I'll probably go back to Europe because in that time I probably want to start having kids.

Yeah, that would be a perfect overlay for you. I mean, like Dubai—I've been blown away by how like, um, friendly and safe Dubai is. It's—I'm really impressed with the city. Like I'm really impressed with the city. I just kind of at the moment like Ubering around different places. But like, what's your idea where you want to raise your family?

Um, well, what was interesting to me, it's like—I've always loved the idea of having like—not being a pure resident in one country but having like—if you're able to maybe just kind of spread like nodes on a network—like have a little, a little spot here, that you get a little spot over there. Like I was—I really love Big Bear in LA. That was awesome. Um, and that kind of showed me, "Oh, this is the kind of place you'd go for Christmas for two months, like with your family and stuff." So I think, yeah, there's a lot of thinking I'd need to do on like educational development and like, weirdly enough, all the people I've met in my life who moved a lot around with their ch—with their children, the children are incredibly articulate, intelligent; they just seem to be really well, well-rounded human beings. So I, that's just anecdotally what I've seen. So I think that's really cool. Um, and I, I don't know, personally, bro, I, I'd have to think about it, but part of me is thinking on the lines of, yeah, maybe have a couple—I think I would struggle to just lock myself down in one location and just be that. So I would love to do it in a way that I could like explore the world, show them really epic stuff, uh, and just like go from place to place. I not—we're moving every—with, with like rocksacks on our backs type of thing, but like having a couple of spots that you kind of flee between.

Yeah. So what spots do you have in mind?

Um, well, I actually googled it; I was like, "Dude, well, where is the best place in the world to live?" and uh, the one that comes up top all the time is Zurich in Switzerland. And I was like, "Cool. So I'm going to check that out." Uh, I was there a month ago.

Oh, dude. How did you find that? What was it like?

Great. I mean, Switzerland is amazing. Like the nature is next—I don't know. Maybe like Norway can only rival it, but yeah, nature in Switzerland is, is crazy. I definitely would want to have like at least one like winter place, either Austria or Switzerland. That I love skiing. So I would just have something there.

Well, dude, this funny thing. So I, I lived in Rio, and what I always tell—my biggest takeaway from that is that like you can only understand your own country when you go and live in a different country. So like, I, I'd encourage everybody to try that once.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I lived in Paris for like almost two months, and now I know I don't want to live in Paris.

No, you don't. Paris. But you've got to like test—that's one thing I'd love to do in the next couple years is like—because we'd all meet up—like international stuff—like you get to go to the country, experience it, live it, see what it's like and say, "Hey, cool; I really freaking love that." And if you did, you can move there and do it. It's also like where different cities in different countries can vary quite wildly as well. Where's the value created from an investment perspective, right? Like we touched on Africa and stuff, but like I'm interested about second-order effects of AI and what that looks like. Like there's this idea—there's a guy called Gary's Economics; he's like blown up in the UK; did like a big debate with a guy called Daniel Priestley on Driver CEO. It was a really, really interesting discussion, and Daniel Priestley was advocating for, um, basically being realistic: you as an individual, what can you do to maximize your return and grow your own personal world? Gary's perspective was, "Hey, this is the economic reality for the 70 million people in this country; this is what we're heading up to." So his background was like he's made like, you know, millions in, uh, trading all this sort of stuff, and his, his philosophy is that the middle class in the UK is getting like eroded and like slowly broken down. So if you are fortunate enough to have like a six-figure star in the UK, you're actually under—I would say the most pressure per square inch possible—because like your effective tax rate is becoming 50%, at least on your income tax, then plus obviously national insurance and all the other bits and pieces. And he said that the whole idea is like if you look at economies that lose their middle class, and you have this big division between guys that making lots of money at the top and their wealth basically accumulates because of lack of interest, and then people who fall towards the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder, um, you have more inequality, and you—it's his view and his philosophy that we're on a one-way track to—I don't want to misrepresent what he's saying, but my understanding is that's the direction trouble heading on, which I thought was really interesting actually about how that works, and it's like my view looking at the UK; I'm just seeing these negative trends everywhere that I look, and I think it's at the point where like I can't—you just can't avoid it anymore; it's just that just seems the direction that we're heading in.

Yeah, but what caused those negative trends is the government; the decisions made by the leaders. And what is Gary advocating for? More taxes? The guy, in my opinion, is a complete [ __ ], like respectfully—I don't know if you can say it respectfully, but like how is more taxes going to solve this? More money to the people who are corrupt, who are making the bad decisions? The only way to solve this is to abolish the entire system. All the people that caused this downfall of the UK—which not that long ago, 150 years ago, was the greatest nation in the world—I mean, the British Empire was half the world actually.

Yeah. Yeah. The British Empire was crazy, right? And now like the UK is literally on one of the worst trajectories of all countries in the world. So those people that caused it should be like publicly hanged. They shouldn't get more money. They—like more money is only going to affect the, the lower people, like the, the working-class people. Millionaires, as you said, the statistics show it—move abroad. You cannot tax a billionaire; he will set up his company in, you know, Hong Kong or Marsh Islands, blah, blah, blah, this and that; he will optimize tax, will optimize—boom. You can only tax the working-class man, so increasing taxes—absolutely idiotic idea. I don't think there's more idiotic ideas than that, and uh, yeah, you're just destroying the people that are already like struggling. I, I think, yeah, I'm not sure if he even advocates for, um, more taxing. I think his perspective is—and I'm not saying this is right or wrong—but the idea of like, um, extreme—he wants to—um, as I understand it, the philosophy is that you take money from extreme wealth, not on earned income, by the wealth.

This is ridiculous.

Yeah. Well, it's actually like the UK now is looking at, um, exit tax. Canada has, has it. It's disgusting. You want to leave; they, they take it. And it's weird cuz you are right. People who—people who get to a point of like a significant wealth can avoid it anyway. Yeah. So you're not like—you want—you can't tax your way to a prosperous economy. I really believe that. Like I think you've got to drop the taxes to encourage growth. It's like, it's like you're reaping the fields sometimes; just got to let water it, let it grow, let the people come, and they will spend more as a result of that. 50% is absolutely disgusting, man. Like half of your life—if you put it like—if you work every day, that's 180 days stolen by the government each year. And it's worse than that. It's worse than that because on top of that you've also then got national insurance; then you've got 20% on every item you purchase; then when you buy a house, you're taxed; then when you die, it's taxed; when you're stamp taxed, it's like your effective rate—I think there is a number; I'll try and find it; I think it's like high 60%. I'm going to find out the effective tax rates; I'd be really curious about that. But it's even—

Worse than that, because then you look at where the money is going. Ireland is a great example. Right in Ireland, what they're paying for is like they're paying for people to go to these like poor countries, like, like Jordan, you know, Syria and stuff like that, to find people to move to Ireland. Really wow. So your taxes, if you're an Irish citizen, are going towards funding the government, which pays for like scouts. They go to countries and they try to convince them to come to Ireland. So it's not just like immigrants that want to move there; there's literally people paid by the government that go into these third-world countries to convince people to move to Ireland. And this is where the taxes go. What, what's the rational in doing that? Do you think there's no rational? It's just destroying society. I mean, obviously they, they will try to say like, oh, you know, we're boosting the workforce, we're, you know, blah, blah, blah. They try to make it, but you know, let's be honest, we know what the outcome is going to be. The outcome is absolutely destructive.

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's why lots of people now are looking at Dubai or Cyprus or these other locations. But the interesting part about Dubai is it's one of the most multicultural places in the world, right? There's people from everywhere: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Canada, United States, Europe, but it's safe. Why I thought about this, right? Not only are they trying to attract all the entrepreneurs, all the people who create the jobs, create the services, create the companies, but also from the third-world countries, they're selecting the best of the best. Anybody that's here, doesn't matter if they're Indian, Pakistani, whatever, they speak perfect English. They're selecting the best people. Even from the like bad countries, it's the best people, right? In Europe, it's the exact opposite.

Where are you investing your money in the moment? Bitcoin? Just yeah. So tell me about crypto. Do you think it's still a significant opportunity? I don't touch any other coins than Bitcoin, really. Okay. Because like Bitcoin is pure. Nobody knows who the founder is. There's a limited 21 million. You know, the hash rate is growing like exponentially. It's, it's decentralized. There's so many things that if you look at Ethereum, which is, you know, number two in terms of market cap, that there's like 20 reasons why you should buy Bitcoin over Ethereum. So I think there's like completely two different categories: you have Bitcoin and you have the rest of crypto.

What about index funds? Yeah, index funds are great. Yeah, I mean, but the issue with index funds is like you see, you know, 12% growth, but uh, if you look at the monetary expansion over the last 5 years is like 10.4%. So if you have money in the S&P, you're not earning 12% a year; you're earning like 1 to 2%, which coincidentally, it's not coincidental, is the real productivity growth GBP rate. So you're basically earning like the productivity growth. So you're earning like 2%, maybe, if you have S&P over inflation, right? Obviously, if you have cash, then you're losing buying power 10% a year right now, which is just insanity. But if you hold S&P, you're like making a bit of money, just not losing. Everything else is like worse. What, what I find amazing, like people always find these investment vehicles that make less money than the S&P but take way more work, right? Like, for example, properties and stuff like that. There's people who have got rich in real estate, obviously. But the average property owner who's like one, two, three flats, okay? So are you going to manage it yourself? Are you going to call when they call that the water is broken or the washing machine doesn't work? Are you going to fix it yourself? No, I'm going to have a manager. Boom. Profit margin gone. So you're making way less than S&P with way more work. So many investment opportunities are literally this. So if people are listening, I would recommend you start with S&P. Okay, buy S&P every month automatically. Once you start, get educated about Bitcoin, start buying Bitcoin. Those two things, I think you can get insanely worth it.

Yeah, I mean, like, well, the index funds, like they when they average like, like a global index fund trackers like 10%, 11%, I don't want an exciting investing strategy in a simple, I want a simple investing strategy, like sign live. And I think like it's like index funds, right? You can average like 10 to 12% with that. Like it's just like a shovel and lead. But I, I, I do recognize that I'm, I'm also thinking like intelligently about, okay, my philosophy is, right, three things you can do with money: one is earn, there's save, and there's grow. Like earn, retain, grow. Right. My philosophy was actually if you could just 10x the earning side, yeah. Like, they're doing 10, 11% is nothing. But then a certain point you want to kind of like set like an intelligent growth strategy. Like Bitcoin's crazy. I remember it was $3,000; like it was like yesterday. That was only a couple of years ago.

So do you think a lot of the crypto growth is in front of it? Because I guess my view is, where's the like, okay, AI has defined utility; like it actually is genuinely changing things. Where do you think the utility of Bitcoin is, and do you think that affects like its growth? Mainly store of value. There is a roughly, um, 100, wait, there's roughly like $900 trillion worth of wealth in the world, and roughly half of it is in like store of value. So like, you know, real estate, gold, all of that stuff is just to store the value in something that is not cash. Cash is terrible, right? All the rich people know that. Only people who save in cash are the poor people. Rich person has property; they have assets, right? So Bitcoin, a lot of people think like, oh, it's transactions, which, by the way, have been so solved by the lightning layer, but the main value is store of value. It's the perfect asset. There's no other asset on earth where you can buy a certain amount and you have that certain amount forever. Even if you buy a house, there can be more houses built next to it, you know? But like, okay, but like, so real estate has like actual utility, right, because it's somewhere to live and stay. Gold, I agree with you. Gold is a good point because gold has no inherent value, but we buy and we sell gold. I guess you could argue there's like, you can make gold into jewelry, right? But I guess there, I guess it's like my, my, my pulse on some of the crypto stuff, I like, I freaking love this mering tech, and I do think it's kind of a lot of utility, but like, at the moment it's like, what's the real-world like difference it adds? Do you know what I mean? Like, even like, well, that's the real-world difference; there's no other asset where if you buy one bitcoin you hold 1/21 million of an asset; there's nothing else like this on the planet, even stock, like stock company can issue more stock, everything you can do can be done more. That's why like a lot of like exclusive high-end cars have value, right? It's one of 20; it's one of 20. So the scarcity is one thing, but there's so many other things, like it's decentralized, right? It's permissionless. You don't need to have a permission for a bank to make a Bitcoin transaction. You can send someone a billion dollars right now, and it will clear in like 10 minutes. And also like, um, the privacy, right? Obviously, if you're, if someone knows your wallet, then they can track you. But there's a lot of different ways to, if you have like multiple different wallets, you know, you can have that set up. Also, you can have a decentralized, you can have like a multi-sig setup where you have like one signature in Switzerland, one signature in the UK, one signature in Dubai. So that even if someone would come out to you like on the street with a gun, they cannot get your Bitcoin because you need these all these signatures. It's so amazing how, like, how better it is than other assets in almost any other way. So, by the way, I'm only saying this after like hundreds of hours of research. Yeah, I didn't buy any Bitcoin until I, I had like 70 solid hours of research. Interesting. And the more I research it, this is like AI, the more I research it, the more I believe in it. So honestly, like only like AI and Bitcoin have been the two main things in my life where like the more time I put into it, the more I like it. Yeah, it's at what is it? $85,000 right now? Um, yeah. And by the way, this is after all the other stocks and crashed like crazy, right? Tariffs and everything. It's holding at 85K. Yeah, it reached 100,000, dude. I remember it being 3K. It's so cra, and I was thinking it was so expensive. It's 3K. How wild is that? By the way, there's 65 million millionaires in the world, and there's only 21 million Bitcoin. So if every millionaire wanted to own one Bitcoin, he couldn't. This is absolutely wild. Yeah, its growth is insane. So what's your, what do you think? You think it's going to pass a million per Bitcoin? It has to. It, it's, listen, the pri, the current price is just like market speculation, right? You cannot predict the price in the short term. Long term, it is supply and demand. The amount of people buying Bitcoin is increasing. The amount of Bitcoin being available on exchanges is decreasing. Why? First of all, people lose their Bitcoin all the time, right? They lose their keys, lose their wallet, whatever. People also die. When somebody dies, their Bitcoin is inaccessible if they, you know, didn't tell somebody. Some percentage of people who die tell other people, right? Their kids, whatever. But there's a good amount of percentage who just die, and nobody else has access. So the amount of Bitcoin is being lost. Also, more and more people are holding it, which means they're buying it and never sell it, which means the amount of Bitcoin in circulation is being less and less. Also, the halving, every four years there's a halving, which means the amount of bitcoin being mined, the fresh bitcoin that the miners get, is being halved. Every four years it's half. So there's many, many factors that are lowering the supply. So the amount of bitcoin available on, on the exchanges that you can buy is less and less and less. The amount of people and institutions that want to buy it is more and more. So it will absolutely reach 1 million sooner or later. I cannot tell you when, but it will absolutely reach it. It will also reach 10 million, obviously later. But it's just the supply and demand.

Interesting. Yeah, that, that does sound quite compelling to me. Yeah, because guess Bitcoin is the name child of it. It's the, it's the front runner. It's like, it, people don't use it transactionally because it's too complicated. It's too cumbersome to use, isn't it? Like an actual real transaction? Um, but it's a store of value. Yeah, it seems quite exceptional. But even the transaction part is being solved. I was in Katowice, Poland, you know, like two weeks ago, and there I saw three different Bitcoin stores and ATMs. So it is becoming more and more available. I have this app, or, you know, on my phone, it's like bitify, whatever, I don't know, and you can just, um, transact with a QR code, and you can scan a QR code and send with, it's like near instant. Lightning layer is like layer 2 on top of Bitcoin where you can send transactions much faster, and you have to pay the fee. This is like the future. This is going to be the transactions. Why would you wake on a bank who's like, okay, only Monday through Friday, only 9 to 5? It's like so [ __ ] and you, the bank, if you send a lot of money, why you send this jack, you know, how did you make it? No, just I'm just going to send it on the lightning layer instantly and see. So I think the transaction problem is going to be solved as well, but the main value is, um, the store of value, and I think you probably, it's easy to underestimate how much value is that, but again, almost half of the all of the world's assets is in store of value; all the real estate, all of like the pension funds, all of that is to store the value, and how do you store the, you need to buy something that cannot be expanded. Bitcoin is the only asset that is programmatically set that it cannot be changed.

Okay, that's interesting, dude. I'm going to have to look into that more detail because I mean, like, yeah, I mean, like, to me when you're speaking about AI agents as well, their ability to transact that needs to be done with bitcoins, like that done on the lightning layer, which is layer two on top of bitcoin. Yeah, dude, that's freaking interesting. That's fascinating. So that I think that will be another use case, you know, once AI agents need to make like super microtransactions, like, you know, maybe one, one percent of a penny, just small transactions for accessing an API, accessing website stuff like that, it will need to be done with crypto; it cannot be done with a bank or credit card; it's prohibitive. Yeah, it's cost, the cost makes it prohibitive to do with the bank. Yeah, 100%. Dude, that's exciting. That's a cool technology to think about. That's why that's kind of why I gravitate towards, I'm now starting to think about like cryptocurrencies because I mean, I've flirted with it and stuff, but I'm thinking more about it because of that very reason. Yeah, when it kind of collision course with AI. By the way, when it comes to the UK, you left recently, right? So what's the main reason? Uh, just being like candid, transparent, I think it's like, you know, taxation reasons and also just like the future economic outlook and environment, and also like, I think it's good to just increase your service era to the world and life and stuff, but I think they've just made it difficult, um, it's just prohibitive to be an entrepreneur in the UK, just make it too difficult, and yeah, it's just too expensive to, to live there, actually, man, to be honest with you.

So how has Dubai been in your first month here? Dubai, Dubai has been cool. I mean, like, people are super friendly. I'm blown away by there's just an air of safety, which is interesting. Uh, the heat is one thing, um, but yeah, so far so good, dude. Yeah, so far so good. It's going to be interesting. Yeah, I mean, right now is like the time to leave Dubai, you know, like as the heat is getting like 35, popping up a little bit during winter when it's like 25 max, you know, 20 to 25, it's perfect. It's like for winter, I would highly recommend you to anyone watching just to spend like a month, two months in Dubai. It's amazing, right? Like for me, it's like either skiing, you know, in the deep mountains with like meters of snow, or like Dubai, the middle ground where it's like 2°, you know, not snow, it's kind of cloudy, shitty weather. Why that's like the tough bit. Yeah, that's the tough bit. Yeah, 100%. Okay. So other than that, like, what are your impressions, you know? What else do I think? Because for me, it's like the, there's like a think bigger effect because like you see so much wealth, you see so many people doing well, you know? I have a friend who's like 20, making 5 million a year. It's like, how do you do that at 20 years old? You know, that's incredible, and it's like this is like not available for, at least for me, where I come from is a 500-person village in Czech Republic, you know? It's like nobody is there as an entrepreneur; nobody. I was, I was the most successful person there at like 20 or like 21, whatever, but that's like limiting, right? You don't want to be the smartest person in the room; you don't want to be the richest person in your area. When you move to a place like Dubai, you just see like different levels, and it makes you think like, these people, they're not smarter than me, right? They're no different than me, but why are they making 10 times more money? We're making like 20,000 more money. Why? What? And again, it's not just about money; it's like pushing harder. The, there's like this, I don't know, like for me, like having Burj Khalifa view and just looking at it, someone had to f, like, we're going to build the world's tallest building, and you think about that, like the ambition to do that, right? So someone had to f that and like, let's make it happen. This is like the thing in Dubai. You have, you have to think bigger. It makes you to like expand your horizons.

You want, yeah. You want to surround yourself with people that are crushing it to get those little snippets, those little bits of inspirational data, dude. Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's it. You want a good entrepreneurial economy. Yeah, I, I completely agree. I think Dubai is epic for that stuff. One thing that I don't respect is like a lot of entrepreneurs, they just want to make money for themselves, right? They want to be on the beach, you know, family, whatever. But once you take care of your family and friends, right, what's next to me? The answer is like the place where you came from, your region, your community, you know, your city, your country. And I don't know, like, I hate the fact that people say, "Oh, it's just going to be like make 100 million or whatever," and then like their country is going to [ __ ]. So I think like us, we are like the perfect demographic to solve this, cuz what are entrepreneurs? They're problem solvers, right? So when you remove all the problem solvers from a country with a lot of problems, it goes to [ __ ]. So I think like the real answer is like for people like you and me, we should like get our life in order, right? Become successful, influential, whatever. But then we, we should try to save the continent we came from because I, I don't, I don't like the future. Like, I don't want my kids to live in a world where there is no Europe.

Well, I mean, the effects of a brain drain, uh, which we've seen in other countries, they take, like, you won't notice the impact. It's like when Steve Jobs left Apple, for example, um, there was like, I mean, I've heard it described as a decay factor because he had like artistic flare and choice, but you didn't notice those ripple effects in the products for several years. I actually think it's also the same case with like a countries that, you know, you think about how slow changes are in a business, right? You get a bad CEO; like it's going to take a certain number of years before you start seeing the results of that, and with the UK we're seeing the data of people saying, hey, I don't love this as much. We've got riots in certain locations. I'm not, but I'm not saying it's like, uh, you know, like 28 Days Later level, but like it's like, but you will only really see the, the effects on the country after like 5 to 10 years. I mean, you'll start to see the effects, but they will really present themselves enough times, and we don't really know how that's going to get either. Yeah, I think I think about this, like maybe Europe needs like one country to fall. It sounds like bad, but you know what? If for the other countries to like wake up, one of them needs to go into a really bad place. What do you think about that? Cuz then you have a clear example, you know, like, here's what happens when the bad decision-making goes unchecked. Other countries, let's not do that.

Yeah, that's an interesting one. I mean, it just gets to the point where, I mean, like, yeah, that's an interesting question. I guess, like, the UK, we have election cycles every five years. What do I think? Will that lead to significant change? No. I mean, like, I just look at two things: I look at what direction is it heading in, and what is the velocity of that change, and where do I think that'll be in 10 years' time? I think that I don't know enough about the other economies in, in Europe to know like if that's going to drive like a significant change or not, um, I think living standards, I hope they get better. I believe they'll get better with, with AI and how that affects companies, and we'll all realize that benefit. So I think that that could be a good counterbalance to what's happening, um, but everything else is not like heading in the right direction, dude. I think, okay, let's end on a nice AI topic. What do, recently I watched the Naval podcast, and he said he said that he thinks ASI, artificial super intelligence, is a complete fantasy, and he said he thinks AGI is still like decades away. Mhm. What do you think about that? And also what do you think about the implications if he's right? Oh, well, what would you define as artificial super intelligence? Well, that's like something that's like far beyond human capability that we can't even comprehend what it does, and it can just like solve mathematical theorems instantly, invent new things. Yeah, cuz, cuz benchmark one is intelligent as intelligent generally as an average human. Then it's like as intelligent. Yeah. So let's talk about AGI. Let's talk about someone, something that can do like things as good as a human or better. Not ASI. Let's, let's look about AGI because he said he thinks AGI is nowhere near. He said he thinks it's decades away. But if you look at the AI YouTube space, influencer space, it's like, "Oh, AI is coming tomorrow. It's coming in six hours." Yeah, it's true. It's very, very true. It's very, very true. Well, I, let's just, what, what we know for sure. What we know for sure is that the AI performance and impact is increasing. It's not enough times elapsed for us to know whether that is on an exponential curve or, or just a kind of a straight linear curve. But what I know for sure, even if it is a linear curve, if we continue at the rate of progress we've had in a matter of years, it would be unfathomable how powerful that would be. So I think it's like, whether it hits these fictitious benchmarks, which I think would change anyway the second it hits, is actually irrelevant. It's like, how fast is it changing? How fast is it getting better? And how good is it? I think both those things are very, very quick and very, very good. So the impacts are only going to get bigger, uh, which is why I think the ability to build and standard technology is super important, dude. And I'm excited by it. Like, it's my belief that we will solve aging before we're 50. I genuinely believe that. I'm 33 now, and by the time I'm 50, I think we will have cracked it. And it's like the rate of these medical advancements in every area you can imagine, like bringing back dire wars, whatever it is, is just getting better. Um, I'm really excited for that point where the rate of progress just continues to increase. Um, I guess it'll be like nothing at all, then all at once. How about you, man? What's your, what's your take on? I think we'll probably solve aging too, but I don't know if it's going to be like, I don't know when it's going to be, you know? Could be 10 years, could be 20, could be 30, could be 40. Um, I think there are bigger problems in the world in that meantime that are guaranteed to come up. But when it comes, like, when it comes to AGI, I think the biggest issue is not like the scaling. I agree, the models are getting better super fast. The biggest issue is like the architectural one, right? Like, if you look at the, there's a good for experiment. If you gave a human just like 1% of 1% of the knowledge that any modern LLM has, that human would be able to come up with so many new inventions, conclusions, you know, connections between fields that LLMs don't have. There's not even like one invention from LLMs currently. One new invention, biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, nothing. Right? So it's, it's not, they don't have true creativity. All the poems you tell them to write are kashiri; right, I don't know how to describe it, but I think it needs to be a different architecture, not just LLMs, until it's real AGI. I think it's going to be like super intelligent in some ways, right? Like coding, math, or all of those benchmarks, it's already super intelligent. But if you talk about like an average human, you know, all the things like how much agency an average person has, can it solve a unique problem, stuff like that? I think in that case, AGI is not here. But it's like, we don't

Really understand how our own consci is obviously not conscious right now, but we don't understand how our own consciousness works or how we make decisions ourselves. And we, to some extent, really understand what's happening with these LLMs anyway. Um, so at what point—I mean, it's like, what's the definition—and at what point is it so good that it's spookily accurate to the point where you could actually—I mean, there's a few—I saw an interesting conversation recently, uh, and it outlined a few problems we have to solve. One is like the hallucination problem; obviously, it doesn't hallucinate. You are right about originality with AI. It's like its ability—it can get better at doing the things we already use it for. But at what point is it so good that you could just defer all responsibility and it would make decisions like a human being? That's tough to say. I, I would just chalk—if you had to bucket all its improvements up as just—it is generally getting better. I would like to think that would happen in a certain period of time. But I mean, like, dude, your guess is as good as mine. It's it's wild. I think we're on a collision course for it getting to the point where, like, you know, it's going to be completely game-changing in many areas.

So, um, I don't think we're there now, but hopefully in a couple of years it'll be, yeah, pretty freaking world-changing.

Yeah. We'll see. Maybe we can do this podcast in a year and we'll see AI dive in there.

Yeah. Well, okay. If I had to give it—I'm going to give a crazy prediction. My prediction would be we will—I think that like everything else, it will get neater and cooler. There'll be cool things. I think lots of things will be overhyped, not turn out to be anything. But I think there will be an inflection point where we're like, "Holy crap, that's insane." And I think it will probably be—our view of where the future is going is led by our past experiences, which is why if you ask people in the 50s, "Where do you think we'll be in the year 2000?" they all said flying cars. And they said flying cars because they just had the invention of like cars and stuff, right? So our predictions of where AI will go is based on what's happened recently. But like, even Image Gen, for example, was crazy. We didn't expect it to—at least I didn't expect it to—really solve images the way that it did with text, it is right now. So it could just be in ways that we don't possibly understand. Um, but I love—I love kind of like a pining on futurology; it's really interesting.

Yeah. So I think we can wrap up here because we ran out of time, but yeah, beautiful. Let's see where it where it goes and let's do another episode in 6 months, 12 months. So let's do it. Appreciate it, Jack.

Thank you, man. Great conversation.