Transcription
They're encouraging people to come out here and make money; that's what people do. They're taking advantage of the very, very low tax environment here. Expatriates will open their arms and say, "We all want to help each other have a good life here."
What is Dubai like for families? Your kids can grow up here; there is no threat to your children here. The kids here are never bored; they're constantly outside doing things.
How can I know if Dubai is for me? Start to talk to and hang out with people who live here. Then, in a year, you think, "Okay, I'm going to have a rented apartment; I'm going to have a small rented office; and I'm going to have four full-time members of staff. That's my 12-month goal; that's the way to do it."
Jono Davidson has helped hundreds of people build a new life in Dubai. Today, he will reveal why so many entrepreneurs are moving to Dubai, and he'll share expert advice about how you can relocate to this exciting business hub.
How long have you lived in Dubai?
Yeah, um, a long, long time, actually—25 years.
And a lawyer?
A lawyer, yes. My primary role; I'm known as a lawyer. And everybody who had historically said, you know, "Dubai, it's a bit plastic fantastic; I'm not sure; it's not where I want to live," they're all here, so they've all now changed their view. They're here; they're taking advantage of the very, very low tax environment. And people who have a certain amount of money and can be flexible and travel, they'll spend the nice months here, and they'll spend the summer months somewhere else. They might be back in London; they might be in Europe. So people just create a balance, but Dubai becomes a central part of that balance.
And for me, being an entrepreneurial individual, I mean, running a business, what's it like if I want to relocate my business here and bring my team of, say, 10 or 15 people? Is that possible?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I would genuinely say to you, 10, 15 years ago, the red tape was quite torrid, quite difficult to break through, but now the entire government is digitalized. You even don't need to go into any of the government buildings now. The only thing you need to do is physically get a medical when you get your residence visa.
Why medical?
You have to demonstrate—I think they're looking for tuberculosis, strangely. Historically, they don't want anyone coming into the country who could spread tuberculosis, for obvious reasons. I think that's a historical throwback. But yeah, in the medical, they check your basics; they check your, you know, you're healthy to come and become a citizen here. But most importantly, they check you don't have TB.
So from a business perspective, obviously, the ease to do business is just that it's all online; it's all digital. So you would come, you'd set up your entity. If you were in HR, you'd categorize your business for that; if you're in finance, it could be regulated; it could be unregulated. And the ease to entry is good. I think the international rankings are up to top 10, top 15 in the world now, a visa of entry of business. So you set up, and then you can relocate your staff; they can have visas. If you're a business owner or you buy property over $500,000 US, then you can apply for what's called a golden visa now, which gives you 10-year residency; you don't have to renew for 10 years.
So the real evolution of inviting people to come in and call the UAE and call Dubai their home is, sort of, it's really accelerated over the last sort of 5 to 7 years. I think, for me, when you look at other interesting jurisdictions of a western environment, the bureaucracy is just so painful; the barriers to do business are so, so painful; it's just like the amount of wasted energy. Well, ironically, we used to think many years ago that doing business in the UK was super easy. We used to think, okay, well, you can set up a company in Companies House in one day; you can go down to NatWest Bank and you set up a bank account, and away you go. But it's completely been flipped on its head now. The bureaucracy in countries like the UK and in the EU, when you actually start physically doing business—barriers to logistics, barriers to tax, barriers to the types of products you can logistically take between European countries—it just makes it a very difficult place to do business, whereas the Middle East and the GCC, they're open for business. You know that they are encouraging, within certain sort of global standards of safety and sophistication, they're encouraging people to come out here and make money; that's what people do. They either have an impending or a liquidity event in another country, and they say, "Right, you know what? We're going to take all of that good stuff; we're going to come to Dubai; we're going to set up a company; we're going to set up a home; we're going to put the kids in school; there's lots of fantastic British, American, Swiss curriculum schools now—suits everybody." And they come and they set up home here now; they may disappear for July and August and go and stay in very nice places around the world, but primarily they're based here.
There was a little bit of to-ing and fro-ing of being on the red list from the UK, so that caused people a little bit of logistical problems, but Dubai was basically open for business. I think the only negative I could say about visiting both Dubai and Saudi recently is just the traffic—um, infrastructure. Because, for me, I've been a regular visitor here, but in the last week I've had lots of business meetings, and you just got to pick the times you travel.
I noticed, yeah. No, you do. The traffic has become a major issue because it's, at the moment, the inward, uh, arrival of business people is outstripping the infrastructure. Tourists came—I think I was reading somewhere like 100 million, or there was some big numbers, which I'll have to fact-check later—but there was a lot of tourists. I think there—I think I think it's up to 12 or 13 million British tourists pass through the UAE now. That is people who actually physically come in and spend time here, or people who transit here through to other countries. It's a very clever business model. So what they'll do now, if you get on an Emirates flight, they'll invite you to come and stay for one or two or three days, and they'll make it—they'll make it very cheap for you. And once you imprint on the UAE, then you come back, and you have more holidays, and you have more business. So it's a clever business model.
For me, it's been fascinating, and just how clean everything is. So when you go to the shopping malls and you know, visit our bathroom, everything is spotlessly clean. And then when you compare it to what you're used to, wherever your home may be, it's just a different level of standard.
I know labor is so much cheaper here; there probably isn't minimum wage laws, to my knowledge, but those things do have an impact.
No, they do. And there is a conversation—there's an ongoing conversation that has to be had about that; that's for sure. But also the safety—the safety is premier in the world. I mean, your kids can grow up here; there is no threat to your children here—almost zero threat—and also to your person, to yourself, to your goods. I mean, we get terribly—we get terribly—we get very bad habits where we leave dinner tables in restaurants, and we leave wallets and phones and keys, and we don't give it a second thought. And then we're back in London on our holidays, and people jump on us and say to us, "Don't leave your phone there; don't leave your keys there; they'll be gone." So we—it's a shock for us.
I think, for me, it's kind of all of our governments in the Western world—you've got to invest in the infrastructure and bring people in; they get attracted for people to come. And when people come, they invest; they employ people; they spend money; they do things; things happen. They do exactly that, and they move incredibly quickly, the government here. So in the UK or in European countries, there's a lot of bureaucracy; there's a lot of—that things have to go through government, local government, etc., and it's very slow. Here, if there's a good idea, and that idea consults well and through committee, and that takes one or two weeks, then that idea will be implemented, and it will put in immediately, and you'll immediately feel the benefit from it, because the rulership here—they've got all of the Muhammad—so we got Sheik Muhammad bin Rashid in Dubai and Sheik Muhammad bin Zed in Abu Dhabi. And the way Dubai and Abu Dhabi now interrelates is really healthy, really effective. Abu Dhabi is very much that—I would say the Washington DC of the UAE; it's a cultural capital; it's lower population; it's lower pace; inordinate amounts of government liquidity—government liquidity; it's a very, very nice place to be. But if you want more B2B, if you want more of a sort of a lively kind of entertainment environment, then Dubai is the place for you. If you can manage the traffic, and you travel—you're clever, and you travel when the traffic isn't there, or or you centralize your meetings around one part of Dubai, you can move around that.
I think, for me, when I'm normally visiting London and other countries, I will book a hotel—this is where I'm going to be: you can have me at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12; break for lunch; 2, 3, 4, 5; and make a dinner. That's exactly what I do here. Yeah, if people can centralize, because Dubai is such a hub, and having a law firm here and having been here for so long, there's a lot of people that—that are in London or other parts of the world—say, "By the way, you're going to Dubai; you should go and see—go and have a chat with Jono. Jono can connect you; Jono can, you know, tell you a little bit about Dubai." A lot of people come to my office, and then that's sort of where their journey starts, and then I—I'll—I'll introduce them to four or five other people, maybe in real estate, maybe business, maybe people who are in the same line of work, and then they start their ecosystem. And what—what is really pleasing to me is they come back six or six months, eight months later, and I am seeing them on LinkedIn, dealing with people, doing business with people that I introduced them to. And to me, being the lawyer, I—I can, you know, I keep on—I'm just in the middle of it.
Yeah, I think when you help others, it's hugely rewarding, whatever that is, however you help them.
I find, yeah, for sure. And here, expatriates—what we don't tend to do is we don't compartmentalize. We will say, "Look, you've just come to Dubai; you're a kindred spirit; we really want to help you. Meet my other friend; meet my other contemporaries; my collaborators." And everyone will open their arms and say, "We all want to help each other; we all want to help each other do well; we all want to help each other have a good life here." You know, there's no meanness here; it—it's very much a case of what's ours is—is yours.
No, you can feel that with so many people. I mean, traveling in the region recently, what I found when I was in Saudi is that country has transformed in the last 5 to 7 years; it's transformational change, as I find here in Dubai. It's more—it's matured. Yeah, and it's got an amazing base, which is allowing—I don't know—maybe it's given confidence to others. This place has matured. I mean, we can see the birds in the distance; we've got the Palm as a backdrop; you've got the Atlantis over here. I mean, look, the Atlantis is incredible. When they first built that—the new Atlantis—I thought, well, okay, they've got some enormous containers, and they put them all together, and it looks very interesting, but it's very strange. I look at it there and think, where else in the world do you see something that's—the new Royal Atlantis?
Yeah.
Royal Atlantis, which is—which is some of the best real estate in the world; the top pieces of it are penthouses, and I—I haven't been in—I've been to the other rooms; they're amazing, but the penthouses are literally like a five-bedroomed house with an infinity pool looking out onto the ocean, serviced by the Atlantis F&B; it's—it's absolutely stunning. And the ticket prices are quite high.
And where's your favorite place in Dubai?
I have two types of Dubai, for me. I have my what I call my game-face Dubai, which is when I'm in business; I'm meeting people; I'm selling services; I'm being a connector between people doing business; and that—that's the high-energy piece of Dubai. So that would be in DICC, or it could be down here near the beach on the Palm; it's very nice. And then I have my private Dubai. I actually live in a part of Dubai which is very private; it's old school; a lot of old local people from the GCC live there; very quiet; we have high walls; we have privacy; have a nice gazebo in the garden where I put my—my sports screens and watch my UK premiership TV and rugby. So that's my private time, so I can lock myself away, and I can psychologically say, "I'm in my own space; I'm relaxing." And then again, I'm back out; I'm in the IFC; game face is on, and I'm doing my business. So there is—there is something for everyone. Expats as well, I mean, we have got regular Joe stuff that we like to do, you know?
Regular Joe—what's a regular Joe? What is it nowadays?
A lot of us like to jump on bicycles and go cycling. They built a 75, 80 km cycle-only track in the desert. But if you want to do outdoor things like cycle or golf, then—like cycling—we tend to be out there at 4:35 in the morning; we'll be done by 7:00 a.m., having our breakfast. Or at the weekend golfing, we'd grab 9 or 18 holes when it gets light at—at sort of 5:45, 6:00 in the morning, and then again, we'll be done by 9:00, and then the rest of the day would be—would be indoors. But what we love about the summer—there's no traffic, so we can get anywhere we want to in the summer without the traffic jams.
Now, if the only thing I've noticed really would be for me, who have zero patience, is I would find that a little bit frustrating because I have no patience.
Well, I tell you what's interesting, and this is a—this is now a fact; it's on record, is that the—the UA government, the Dubai government have signed a contract with Elon Musk for his Boring, you know, the—the Boring Company—the tunnels. So now they'll be—they'll be, over the course of the next 5 to 7 years, they'll be boring—building tunnels all around Dubai underneath, which will basically—you'll go in at one end and out at the other, and that will basically lift all the traffic pressure away from the center of the city. And anywhere else in the world, you think that's BS; you know, that's not going to happen, but here it will happen. And that's just being clever, using technology to make a difference and make a change. Because I think, for me, the amount of business that you're able to do in a short space of time here, I would say, is unrivaled, to be honestly. I mean, I was in the lift on my first day; I met a hedge fund guy; just happened to be talking, as you do—as you do—it was just odd. And then I was saying that I had this client needed to borrow some funds on a crypto-related matter, so he introduced me to—to a local bank who does regulated Bitcoin crypto lending. Yeah, low loan-to-values at 20% and 40% if you're looking for a blended facility on a portfolio. And I'm thinking, people in London wouldn't really—draw to you; New York is probably the same, but here people were just a bit more open. "Hi, what are you doing here? I do this. Oh, what do you do? I do this. Oh, that's interesting; I need help with this." They said, "That's okay; I know this person." Like you say, kind of like—well, it vibrates; it vibrates. Everybody wants to connect with each other. It is—it—it's quite transactional. You do get into a mindset where you're having social discussions; it's absolutely fine; just talk about all everything you would normally talk about anywhere else. We were having business discussions; everybody gets in a mindset where they want to find interesting things to do together. So I'd say that—that's why it becomes quite transactional: let's get that guy to meet that guy because I think it's interesting; they can do business there; we can help. So yeah, that is the environment here, and that's why you've built all of this.
Where would you recommend people come and live? I mean, if you've got a young family, would it be somewhere like this, near the beach?
They're building a lot of very nice developments inland, so sort of 10 or 15 or 20 km inland. And again, for—for anyone who needs to commute, that would mean the commute would be sort of 20, 30 minutes to work, but you are in an area where they've built these big villa and apartment enclaves where you have shopping centers; you have schools; you have big infrastructure for kids. Of course, it's amazing for young kids here; you're outdoors all of the time—your soccer, your rugby, your golf, your net—anything—anything you want to play, you're—you're outdoors. I mean, the kids here are never bored; they're constantly outside doing things.
So in terms of lastly, kind of top tips, if you—you know, you're in business, you're fed up of income tax, corporation tax—yeah, this tax is important, but we never used to have the level of taxes—going back—and I can see the appeal from a taxation perspective is one aspect—so financial benefits—yeah, the—the—the standards of living here are certainly high; health care is tremendous; transportation is a challenge, but they're trying to improve it. Any sort of lasting advice?
So I think—I think ease your way into it. What a lot of people do is they come and start spending a bit more time here, and they don't do it in the five-, six-star hotels; they do it in the—in the—the Airbnbs, in the apartments; they start to see what real Dubai—start to talk to and hang out with people who live here, and go to houses, you know? So do that over the course of 6 to 12 months. If you come here once or twice or three times, and then what people often do is they take a month in a small apartment, which can be relatively economical, then they start to look at how they set up their business, and then—and then that starts to integrate—maybe bring one or two members of staff over. So I say, if you can set a plan to bring your business infrastructure to Dubai, do it over the course of a year. Then, in a year, you think, "Okay, I'm going to have a rented apartment; I'm going to have a small rented office; and I'm going to have four full-time members of staff. That's my 12-month goal; that's the way to do it." And have a good lawyer; I know a few fantastic ones.
So Jono, I think—I think it's time to swim. I think we—
Let's do it, Paul. Let's do it.
So Jono, how do we finish this? Paul has given me a pitch; the quid pro quo is, "I have to go swimming." My 10-second pitch: Come to Dubai. Jono Davidson, Davidson Co Law—you can look me up; I'm on Google; a lot of people know about what I do. Come and talk to me; promise you it won't cost you anything in the first instance; we'll introduce you around; you can get to know a lot of very, very interesting people; and you can come and figure out if Dubai is somewhere you want to spend more time. And you're very, very welcome.
Are you ready?
Yeah, let's go swim, man. That's cool.