Transcription
Welcome to Mining Now. We're recording live from Imar in Australia, and I'm your host, Roy Slack. And this episode features Mining Pro. And we'll be talking today, uh, with Grant Weixel, uh, the Executive Director of Mining Pro, and also Darren Locker, a board member and business director from MWG Mining. And let's start the show. And, and Grant, Darren, welcome.
Thanks, Roy. And thanks, Roy. And, uh, uh, like to start out by getting to know a little bit about both of you. So, so Grant, uh, tell us about how you got involved in in mining and Mining Pro.
Roy, I got involved in the mining industry in the early 2000s. So, um, up around the Mount Isa region and Townsville in Northern Australia, which is a fairly famous, uh, mining district here. And then, um, you know, I've been in and around the industry ever since, pretty much across all, um, um, commodities and all aspects of mining. I'm involved in exploration projects, and then obviously with Mining Pro and other businesses we've had in the past, it's more in the mining services space, working with the majors and, uh, helping them operate assets in Australia.
Okay, very good. And, and Darren, uh, how did you get involved in in this industry?
My background was, uh, I was a professional athlete for 17 years. Uh, I retired in 2011 and decided to move into the corporate world. And Grant, uh, had a business at the time. That's where I met Grant. He's been, you know, he's very knowledgeable, knowledgeable about the industry. He's got a great network, and he's very capable of growing a business. And I was keen to join his team and his company. And, um, so that, that was in 2011. So we're, we're here today. And, and, and obviously, I've, I've gained a lot of experience and knowledge about the industry myself.
Now, let's talk a little bit about Mining Pro. And, and Grant, uh, tell, tell us, uh, who is, or what is Mining Pro? What's it all about?
Yeah, Roy, we set up Mining Pro in 2020. So, as Darren just alluded to, we've been in business together since, uh, 2011. And then, uh, I spent some time based out of Singapore, um, and ended up back in Australia in 2020. And we decided that there was an opportunity in the market for us to start Mining Pro. Um, and Mining Pro's whole business model is built around partnering with mine owners to operate their assets. So it's a little bit of a hybrid between, um, contracting, like traditional mining contractors who come with the equipment and do the work. Um, you know, we don't own the big equipment like they do, but we come in and partner with the owners and help run their production, um, maintenance, or any part of the, the mine site.
Well, and, and I find this in my background is in, in contract, and we talk a lot about partnerships, and that seems to be, um, how would I say, foundational to, to your business and your business approach?
Yeah, it is. I think, you know, I was saying to Darren earlier that you're saying that you're, um, you know, great partners with someone can be a bit cliché, but it genuinely is our, our business model. We've got a lot of great contacts, especially in the coal industry in Australia. And, um, partnering up with those people to, uh, operate assets together is, um, you know, it is all based around that partnership. We literally integrate with their, um, team. So they'll have an org chart that says, here's our management team, and we're going to do this, and we want you guys to do this, and we work out how we're going to gel together and get the best outcome. So that's really the foundational, um, you know, model for the business. And then it's just deciding on a case-by-case basis at each project how much we do and how much the client wants to do, effectively.
Yeah, and coming from, as I said before, you know, high-performance sport, team is everything. And that's always been something that I've, I've been telling Grant that, you know, when we're in partnership, that we, you know, teamwork is how you become, you know, the better we work as a team, the more successful you are. So it's the same, you transfer those skills over to the mine site and, um, you get good outcomes.
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Well, I, I'm, you know, this is an area that really interests me. And, uh, in, in building those partnerships, maybe you can talk a bit about that. Like, how early do you get into operations? How do you, how do you build a partnership like that?
Generally, we're working with, um, fairly, you know, I would say mid-tier or major operators of the asset. So they're usually an existing asset, um, and they'll decide, you know, in, in an open cut or open pit, depending on what part of the world you are, um, mine, you know, it'll come down to how they want to operate the fleets of equipment. So how many, you know, load and haul circuits are there at the mine? How much do you want us to run? You know, we tend to supervise and execute a work plan, but the, the miner themselves will still be in charge of the, um, you know, the mine planning and technical services and all of the statutory, um, elements of running a mine. And we're just sitting underneath their structure to go and, um, execute the work on a daily basis. That's the general model. But in saying that, we have worked with companies to restart mining operations, or they might have changed ownership, or you could go into a completely, you know, greenfield operation and start up, um, once it gets to that production stage.
So, so would you take a, a, a portion of the scope, or do you integrate with the team, or, or hybrid?
It might depend on the project or the operation, I guess.
Correct. Yeah, it's really a hybrid. So we might, you know, at one of our main jobs in Australia, we run about five fleets of equipment, so about 350 staff on site and supervision, project management, um, you know, training teams, all those type of support services that you need to run, um, a mining operation. Whereas for other, um, you know, clients, we may take the whole, um, workforce, if you'd like, and run the whole operation, and the client just has the management team above us to, to focus on the technical components.
We were talking about. Okay. Well, I'm, uh, I might go off script a bit here because, uh, some things catch my ear or eye, and, and I get interested, and, and I want to ask, and I ask everybody about this, about safety, because something I'm passionate about. And, and I believe that, uh, you're integrating not just support of the owner, but you're integrating safety into their operation as well.
Oh, 100%. I mean, safety is such a, a massive part of mining operations. And it's, you know, if you think about breaking it down into there, the people, we got to have a good culture. And then team on site, Darren talked about teamwork before, is critical. And off the back of that, that's a lot of that is what drives the safety behaviors is having the right culture and everyone's following the, um, you know, the safety rules on site. It's paramount. And again, because we integrate with the owner's team, we tend to follow their lead on that. They'll have, you know, often have a set of cardinal rules or, um, you know, a set of, uh, rules that the, the mine operates by, and we work with them to make sure that's, you know, built into the teams that we have on site.
Yeah, safety is a direct reflection of your culture. And, and that's high performance as well. So I think, you know, if you want to be successful in, in particularly in this industry, or any industry, I think safety needs to be at the forefront of all your thinking.
Yeah, definitely. Well, you're, you're, you're preaching to the choir there. That's, uh, that's good to hear there. And another thing that I'm, I'm interested in is, I have a little bit of experience in open cut, but the majority of my experience is underground. And I think you're working, are you working in both environments?
Yes, we are. Yeah, underground and, and open cut.
And, and what is, are the models the same, or is there anything, is there a different approach? Uh, what are the clients, or the owners, uh, doing in each?
Look, I think, you know, there's some, there's a core, um, part that's the same. It's like, you're coming to the, you got to come to each job with the right team and all the things we just talked about, culture, safety. But I think, you know, from an open pit perspective, there's obviously the, the factor of the equipment. So, you know, you, you talked about a contracting background. We, we don't come to the projects with the ultra-class equipment. Usually, the miner will own the, um, you know, the big excavators or shovels and the ultra-class trucks, and then we'll support that with ancillary equipment and vehicles and buses and logistics and those type of things. Um, you know, underground, there's less of that. You know, underground is about coming with the skilled workforce and the supervision to execute the plan. Especially in coal, the client, you know, nearly always owns the long wall. Um, there's a little bit of supplementary equipment, but it's more around, you know, bringing that really skilled workforce to operate the mine underground. That's, that's probably the main difference.
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That segues into another question of mine because, uh, especially when, when the industry is busy, the challenge is always finding people. And you're staffing up, uh, large projects or large operations. Uh, what's, what's the labor pool like? And, and how do you attract people? And how do you train people?
Yeah, I think, look, it's been, um, pretty well documented the, the skills shortages that, um, you know, we've had in Australia. And I do a fair bit of work in Canada as well. I know they've had similar, um, issues. You know, there is a shortage of, of highly skilled, uh, miners available. And it's a challenge that every, I think, every mine site has is attracting and retaining the right people. So, you know, right from the time we started the business, we focused on what are we going to be able to do for people to attract and keep them in our, our business? And that's not just, you know, obviously money is important, like what's their salary, you've got to be competitive. But then it's rosters and logistics and how do you get them to and from work safely and as efficiently as possible? You know, the culture we talk about on site, and, um, you know, reward bonus systems and those type of things to keep people engaged. So we're lucky, we, for all intents and purposes, fully mandate, um, all of our projects at the moment. But yeah, a lot of work goes into that in the, in the background to be able to do that.
There's a lot of projects out there that are actually not in the same position. I think to add to that, communication with your people is really important too, just letting them know that you're thinking, caring about them. And so when you're in constant dialogue with them, they feel like they're a part of an organization. And when, when people feel like they're part of something, they tend to be more happy, more productive.
Yeah, I like that point. You know, we often talk in, in project management about all the, the technical aspects, but the leadership, uh, aspects like, like communication and transparency and, and things like that are, are so important. And, and, uh, so, so that's, you know, I, I like that point. I'm going to shift gears here because, uh, my background is, is mainly, I've been involved in practically every metal except coal. And I guess coal is not a metal in that perspective. But, but, uh, the coal industry, uh, is something that, uh, that, uh, you guys have talked about and, and been involved in. And, and, uh, maybe you can educate me a bit on the industry in Australia and, and coal in general.
Yeah, happy to, Roy. Look, the coal industry here is, you know, one of Australia's biggest exports. Queensland is predominantly, um, your metallurgical coal, or, or some people refer to it as hard coking coal, effectively steel-making coal. So that's the Queensland, um, has some thermal coal as well, but it predominantly it's that premium metallurgical coal. And then in New South Wales, so closer to where we are in Sydney today, up in the Hunter Valley, you've got, um, you know, premium thermal coal for the energy market. So that, there's a huge, um, industry in New South Wales on that side of, of things. And, um, yeah, we've been, you know, working in the industry for what about a dozen years in that space together. And, um, yeah, it's critical to Australia's economy and it's also, you know, one of the biggest employers in the country as well.
You know, we, uh, see some of the, of the negative things about coal from, I think, people that really don't understand not only the importance of it, but all the different things it does. But, uh, I, I see a note here that you're, you host a "Celebrating Coal" event, and that that sounds very interesting.
Yeah, I think it, I mean, we, we call it a, a coal industry event that we host annually. And that kind of came off the back of that, you know, there is some, um, negative perceptions around coal in, I guess, the broader population, obviously not so much in the mining industry itself. And I think a lot of that comes from a lack of awareness and education. It's something I'm pretty passionate about. So we decided to host the event annually for the, not just for the coal miners, but all the professional services and consultants and advisors and people around the industry. And, you know, even get investors and things back in the room because, um, you know, as I said before, this steel-making coal, there is, there's no, um, change to that for decades to come. Like, our Queensland's coal's some of the best in the world. And obviously our iron ore out of Australia is a big factor as well. But all of the, um, steel makers need that product for the steel that, you know, develops the world. Um, so there's obviously, it's, it's always a topical point, coal. But there is a little bit to, to learn about it if, but there, you know, and there is the thermal coal which we use for, for power. I think, well, I think we know that the world is starting to move away from that, but it's, it's going to take a while before we're not relying on that. There's a lot of third, third world developing countries that rely on cheap, reliable coal, uh, power. So it's, it's one of those, those things that it's here at the moment, but, you know, the, the coal we need for steel is obviously going to be around for a lot longer.
Yeah, and even the thermal coal products out of Australia are the absolute premium product. So, you know, if, as the industry does go away from that over time, if you're getting that coal from Australia, it is a higher, um, quality product than stuff out of Indonesia and other, um, you know, other countries. So I think as the world does wind that back, and there's obviously plenty of targets around that, um, you know, we're going to see a change in that space. But I think for Queensland's steel-making coal, there's, you know, decades and decades of, um, work ahead. And, and we talked before about, you know, a lot of jobs. And I think something like, you know, we worked quite closely with the Queensland Resources Council on hosting that event recently. I think it's something like $94 billion or something, the total direct and indirect contribution to Queensland alone as a state. So it's just, it's a massive industry. And, and, um, probably incorrectly labeled at times, um, you know, as being not a good thing, coal mining, whereas we think it's, you know, pretty critical to, um, developing the world and the infrastructure we need here in Australia and around the world.
So, I, I want to expand on that a bit because if, if I understand the "Celebrating Coal" event, it's, it's an industry event. And yes, uh, and sometimes, uh, you know, the public has a different impression than industry does. They, they see a lot of information which, well, I'm a little biased, but I would say is is incorrect or is is slanted, uh, negatively towards mining and towards coal. Uh, what, what do you think we need to do, and this is a big question, but what do you think we need to do to begin to shift public opinion on mining, or on coal specifically?
I think, um, you know, in mining in general, I think the, I mentioned the Queensland Resources Council before. They do a fantastic job here in Australia of promoting the industry as a whole publicly, you know, as a, effectively a lobbyist or an industry body. Um, and I see some, you know, we're starting to see some press around the fact that, uh, you know, to have these energy transitions and, um, electrification, you know, there's, there's a lot of hype around lithium and all these new battery commodities. And even people like BlackRock, I think, were saying this week that people have people who were, uh, you know, for a green economy need to invest in mining because that's how we get it. So it's actually quite ironic that there's all this, um, you know, noise around mining when mining is actually what we need to achieve all those changes and targets. And then, you know, on coal specifically, I think, um, you know, probably as an industry, we didn't do a great job of telling that story early enough. And, you know, an industry event, yes, everyone's kind of already preaching to the converted. From, from a public point of view, I think there needs to be more done to educate, um, the broader population on the use of particularly that metallurgical coal for steel-making. And I think the governments, um, you know, in Australia haven't really been very vocal about that either. So it's probably not an easy, um, road to turn that around. But I know there's, there's certain people in our industry here that are trying to set up some new bodies and, uh, get the word out there more about coal mining.
You know, it's, uh, it's interesting. I, I tell people that mining isn't the cause of climate change, but mining will be the solution. And whatever we do to reduce, you know, some of the environmental issues we have, we're going to need metals and we're going to need energy to do it. So, yeah, you're, you're preaching to the converted right now, that's for sure. But, uh, in terms of the, uh, mining outlook, and let's talk about Australia specifically, and you've touched on this a few times, but of course, Australia is a, is a great mining country. And I, I've had the pleasure of visiting a number of times, usually on, usually on the west, to the west. But, uh, uh, what do you see long-term, uh, in Australia in terms of mining? What's, what's happening, uh, uh, what are the trends in, in the industry in, in, in your country?
Well, yeah, mining, I mean, very similar to Canada. I mean, I, I spend time in Canada every year. Like, mining is a massive industry for Australia. So I think going forward, that will remain the case. But we're just seeing some changes as to which metals and which commodities are, um, you know, the focus. Like lithium has been a huge focus in Western Australia. You just talked about going to the west, and, um, there's been a huge amount of M&A activity over there. And Australia's richest person, Gina Rinehart, has been making plays for the lithium miners. So there's real demand there for, for that. But then you've got the, the two huge industries are coal on the east coast and iron ore on the west coast that, you know, other than natural gas, they're the by far the dominant, um, exports for us. And then obviously, you've still got the traditional, there's plenty of gold miners in Western Australia and copper miners and all those kind of things. So I think, you know, mining is going to remain a, a focus for Australia. It's just going to be this shift in direction towards these critical minerals. That's the main trend at the moment.
And, uh, we, we talk a lot about, uh, about sustainability, which means a lot of, a lot of different things. I mean, certainly the communities we work in and how we impact them, and the environment. And, and there's, there's focus on that in, in most mining jurisdictions.
Oh, of course. And Australia is probably, as far as environmental standards for our operations and the amount of, um, you know, red tape in Australia to be able to start a project, let alone continue to operate one. I think we've got, you know, some of the highest standards in the world. And then it's just about the communities that we work in and the impact on those. There's a lot of, actually, you know, traditional mining towns in Australia where the, the towns are literally supported by mining. There was just a big announcement that Glencore are going to be closing down one of their mines in Mount Isa that's been there for, you know, many decades. And, and there was a lot of talk about supporting the town beyond that and what other players are going to come into the space because, you know, mining's the, the lifeblood of a lot of these communities.
Yeah, no, I certainly remember a couple of visits to Kalgoorlie. And, and, uh, yeah, there's, there's towns that are, uh, depend on, on mining for the quality of life of their people, simple as that.
Yeah, well, Kalgoorlie is a good one because it was always the gold, you know, the gold town and still is. But a lot of this lithium stuff is happening in and around, um, Kalgoorlie as well. So it's, it's, it's booming over there. I think what you mentioned before, Roy, about mining is part of the solution, it's just getting that strategic game plan together that transitions us into the next phase. You know, mining's still going to be around, but it's just the different minerals, the different commodities we're going to mine that's to kind of help the planet. And the different, uh, you know, some of the technologies that are happening now. I mean, certainly battery-operated equipment, and reducing ventilation requirements for underground operations, autonomous. What, what do you guys see, or what are you looking at from a Mining Pro perspective in terms of some of the technology that's happening?
Yeah, well, we're probably, you know, in terms of autonomous equipment, you know, we're a bit once removed from that. That's the mine owner is, you know, the one who's looking at that for that really ultra-class equipment. So for us, it's about, you know, what, how can we support them in that transition with a workforce that is adaptable in and around that, support the operations going forward. There's always going to be parts of that that aren't, um, autonomous. We've seen a lot of that in Western Australia, the big, big iron ore mines, um, over there. And then, you know, for us, it's, um, it's more about, you know, we're a very people, we're a very people-focused business. But where we can use technology to get a better outcome on our projects, we will.
That leads me into my next question about, uh, we talked a little bit about the future of mining. But what's the future of Mining Pro look like? What do, what do you guys have in mind over the next, uh, uh, next few years? How are you going to evolve?
Well, look, I think a key thing for us is, with just with all the changes that have been happening in the coal industry, there's been a lot of change of ownership away from some of the really major, um, global miners to some, you know, specific single mine ownership or, um, you know, mid-tier capped companies focused on coal, even some kind of large investors from outside Australia coming in, trying to buy assets. We, we're talking to our clients about, well, so far, we've been able to partner with you up to a certain level. The next evolution for us is to actually be able to run an operation for them. So they sit back as the owner and obviously sell the product, but we actually come in with a, a management team right up to the, uh, the mine manager to run the, the full operation, um, you know, outsourced on their behalf. So I think, um, that's probably one of the main things we're focused on over the, the next few years. But in the meantime, we've got, you know, plenty of new projects where, um, we're starting into next year. So it's just about growing the business and keeping those fundamentals right around our culture and our team and all the things we talked about earlier.
That leads me to another question I had, and I forgot to ask you, but, uh, you talked about operations and you talked about about projects. Is there a certain portion of your, what portion of your work is in operating mines, and what portion is in developing mines, per se?
Oh, look, it's nearly all in operating mines for us. That's where we, that's where we come in. Is Mining Pro will come in once there is a, the mine is in operation. So if it was a new project, it would be after construction. And that's probably the earliest point we'd be talking to, um, our client would be about, what, what's your plan on how you want to operate the asset? Are you going to be a full owner-operator? Are you going to go to a contractor, or do you want to look at our model, which is to partner up together and work out how we're going to execute it, um, together?
And, and you're looking at the way I understand it, you could do everything from, uh, you know, from the maintenance to the operation to running a turnkey, is, is where you're, you know, where you're going to be able to offer the full gamut to clients.
Yeah, correct. Oh, in Australia, to run the full operation, there's some statutory requirements to be the coal mining operator. So we've, we've put together a, um, a business model to be able to do that, which means, yeah, effectively, the, um, we offer a full turnkey solution for a client who doesn't want to take on that responsibility and doesn't want to be a, a large employer and doing all of the execution on the ground. So that's, that's, uh, where we're headed.
You know, before we finish up the show, uh, uh, I'd just like to give each of you an opportunity to, to close out with anything additional you'd like to leave with the audience. And Darren, can we start with you?
Look, I, I think, you know, Mining Pro, as Grant has articulated, we're here to partner. And not every mine site or every company operates the same. And, uh, what we offer, and are we willing to, you know, go into together as a partnership, we understand what our role and responsibility is. And what's important is that we execute that with high performance. And we communicate with our, our partner. And that's another critical part. So that's that whole aspect of what I talked about about high-performance team, around what makes a high-performance team successful. So I think that's what Mining Pro's focus is. We've got the resources with people, we've got some resources with equipment, we can come in and tailor-make to what you need, what you require. And we, we will do, um, our part to the best of our ability. And, you know, we're there together to, you know, to reflect, um, to hopefully reflect on each other, um, in a really positive way.
Couldn't agree more. I think, you know, we just have that flexibility as well. It's not a, a one-size-fits-all model. Literally, every mine is different. We talked about open cut and underground, and then there's just such a variety of ways that people have chosen to run their assets and where they get equipment from, and where they get contracting or people from. So we're, we're more than happy to sit down with our clients and, and discuss the different ways that we can do that. And then once we get, um, you know, on the ground, that's where we are wanting to do all those things Darren talked about. And ultimately, that has to show up in performance. So if production is good, safety's good, and the, and the miner is making, uh, lots of money, then we're, um, doing our job well.
Very, like I said, personally for me, very interesting. And I'm sure interesting for the audience too. So, so, so Grant and Darren, thank you so much for, for joining us on Mining Now and, and giving us some insight into, into Mining Pro and exciting operations and, and an exciting future. And thank you to our audience for tuning in to another great episode of Mining Now.
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