Transcription
A guy came to debate me. Absolute, I don't even know what to say about this loser.
"Landlords like you are the reason we have a housing crisis. You buy all the properties, you increase the rent to uh to prices that just regular renters would just struggle to afford."
"Do you actually think that though? Is that, did someone, did someone tell you that? And I also think it's very ironic that you sit here and say, 'Oh, you sell expensive courses and get people into debt.' When you're in debt yourself, 40 grand debt, going to university. Have you ever done any of my training on mentors ever?"
"No."
"Okay. I suggest you do."
"A lot of what you're doing is putting money first and people last."
"I'm I'm done with this conversation. I'm done."
"You're done. All right."
"I'm done with this conversation. Off you go, mate. Off you go."
Makes me wonder why, why I'm even doing this. But anyway, enjoy the debate.
"Hey, mate. What's your name?"
"Sam."
"Sam. Good to see you, man. Good to see you."
"Good to see you. I was just, I was just saying, I don't know what you want to debate today, Sam. I was just saying like, people are going to complain. Here's the thing, Sam. People are going to complain now on YouTube. It's like, 'Oh, no one asked him the tough questions.' Have we met before?"
"Nope."
"I met any of these guys before. How can I help it? People are messaging me. I said yes to everybody. Come, come. So, anyway, good man. Really good to meet you. Where else you come from?"
"Uh, from Guilford today. Yeah."
"From Guilford. How old are you?"
"Uh, 20."
"20 years old."
"20 years old."
"Respect for coming down, man."
"No worries."
"So, what's going on? What did you want to debate?"
"Well, I just think um landlords like you are the reason we have a housing crisis. And I think it's as simple as that. You, you buy all the properties, you increase the rent to uh to prices that just regular renters would be, would just struggle to afford."
"Do you actually think that though? Is that, did someone, did someone tell you that? And you're here like..."
"No, I, I think..."
"Look, like you believe that from the heart, bro. You look like, you look like uh someone told you to say that or what made you come in? Have you got a business or something?"
"I, I don't have a business. No, but I've got um past experience myself. Last year I was uh at student flat uh for university and the, I was paying 950 quid a month."
"Yeah."
"Um, I didn't really have a choice. Um, you know, I had to uh purchase or rent a h house somewhere for university."
"Yeah."
"And the, the, the price was far too extortionate. The landlord wasn't even that helpful."
"I know, not all landlords."
"Did you, did you live there yourself or was that..."
"I did. Yes."
"Did you not choose to pay the rent though?"
"I did choose to pay the rent. So I didn't have a choice..."
"To like not purchase..."
"A house if that makes sense."
"Not rent a house."
"Not rent a house. Yeah. Yeah, I had to live somewhere."
"It's just too expensive. So, the solution probably is to just build more houses."
"I think build more houses or..."
"Buy houses that are uninhabitable and turn rundown houses into homes."
"I think so."
"Which is, which is like what I'm, you know, doing and teaching."
"But I, I..."
"So, I think you should be thanking me really and say, you know what, Samuel, I didn't come to debate. I came to say my rent's too expensive, but Samuel, thank you for building houses and for turning rundown buildings into apartments cuz when you bring more supply, you bring down the prices. So, Samuel, thank you for adding value to the economy, I think. Is that what you're trying to say?"
"No, but what, what about other, other people like regular buyers, first-time buyers? It's, it's a fact that more than 50% of UK landlords own more than one property. So that concentration of properties that you're owning means there's, there's less properties on the market for regular buyers to purchase. So it's making it more difficult for them."
"Yeah. So I think what you're talking about is like having people that come and having a monopoly, which is people that come and just buy up loads of houses. So people like Lloyd's Bank, Black Rock, the big institutions, the companies, not the small private landlords. Most, I think the average landlord owns three properties. So the average landlord..."
"How many do you, do you own?"
"I own a bit more than three, but many, most of my houses that I own, I didn't buy them as berlettes. Oh, I'm going to buy a house out. I bought them, converted them into a a habitable space. So I'm actually supplying houses. Um, and also turned one house into, you know, four a four-bedroom house in multiple occupancy and things like that. So I'm, I'm actually adding supply. But I think the real, the real your real beef probably should be with Lloyd's Bank who are who are refusing to loan out money to people that want to get on the property ladder who are borrowing our money and using it to buy houses and then renting those houses back to us and saying they want to be the largest, not three, the largest private landlords in Britain. So, why don't you see if you can sit down with someone that represents Lloyd's Bank and have it out with them? Because what I'm doing is I'm actually taking houses and providing more affordable accommodation and then showing normal ordinary people like you how to get on the property ladder and and and how to live a good life. I think you need to have it up with Lloyd's Bank personally."
"Okay. All right. Should we, should we talk a bit about your, your business then?"
"Yeah."
"Um, you, uh, you promote financial freedom uh to people. But, um, do you, don't make most of your money from from property, do you? You make most of your money from selling your course. Is that correct?"
"Uh, how much do, do you know what, how much money do you know how much money I make from my trading business versus my property business? Have you been on my company's house and through my reports or you just..."
"I'm asking you the question now."
"Last year I basically broke even on my training business."
"Mhm."
"Um, I've been, I was a millionaire before I started teaching."
"Okay."
"And..."
"And yet you're, you're a millionaire yet still charging people what, how much do you charge for the course? Like 10, 10 grand, 12 grand."
"Um, a bit more than that."
"Um, my most expensive uh course is 1 1997. I do have a £12,000 mentorship. Yes."
"Yes."
"And most, most of the people in this world don't want to be entrepreneurs."
"That's..."
"Sure. I would..."
"Um, you know, you, you push, push things online. You make it seem like it's a get-rich-quick scheme, but you make it seem like it's easy, but it's not."
"The reason I make it seem like it easy is because I'm just so good at it. I make property investing look easy. Like how David Beckham makes bending a ball look easy."
"You make it look easy, but it's not easy."
"So, you're charging people..."
"Well, however much you said 10, 10 grand up to what was the maximum did you say?"
"Yeah, 12 grand. But I'm, I'm charging 12 grand so that people can learn the skills to play the game like me and they can also make it look easy."
"For the..."
"You're charging for the possibility of people to become financially."
"Let me ask you a question. Would you rather learn from a pianist that made making the piano look easy, or that made making it look hard? Are you going to learn from the p, are you going to pay the private piana teacher who's going and is rubbish or the one that's making it look easy? Which one are you going to pay?"
"Probably the one who make it look easy."
"Exactly. That's what you're going to pay me to teach you how to get rich cuz I'll make it look easy cuz I'm good at it."
"But it's still £10,000, £12,000."
"Very cheap. I know it's very cheap. Uh, well, what about..."
"Are you university?"
"Sorry."
"Are you at university?"
"I'm at university. I won't be able to afford it."
"But what, how much are your university charging you?"
"Um, well, it's a, it's a tuition loan, so I'm not getting charged at the moment. I want..."
"Oh, you got a loan. So, you're vulnerable as well. So, you got a, Oh my gosh. They took your money. They took your loan money."
"Yes."
"Jeez, that sounds like they took advantage of you. What are you studying?"
"I'm doing an acting course."
"Oh my goodness. And you are you joking?"
"Nope."
"So, they've sold you the dream of Hollywood, too."
"Yeah."
"So, you are going to end up in some McDonald's with your drama degree in debt and you're coming..."
"Hopefully, not McDonald's. Hopefully, bit, bit better than that."
"Okay. I'm not, and I'm, I'm only saying this cuz you're coming at me, right? Trying to be respectful, but the reality is you are a drama student getting, What? You going to get a drama degree?"
"A drama degree? Yes."
"Are you kidding me? You're going to get a drama. Okay. How much, how much are you paying? How much is the whole university course going to get you?"
"Uh, what do you mean, get?"
"How much is it going to cost you in total in loans? What's your uni debt going to be when you finish?"
"Uh, possibly, I don't know, close to to 40k."
"H I think I won the argument already, bro."
"But you're, you want that money up front, don't you? I've got loans, so I've got time to..."
"People can get, people can get loans."
"Okay."
"People can get a loan and join the academy."
"Okay. What about, let's, um, let's take an example. How about uh Danny Butcher? Do you, does that ring a bell?"
"Yeah. Very tragic guy."
"So, um, he, um, obviously was a a veteran who was already in a in a state of debt um and didn't have great mental health and he went to one of your courses because you..."
"You sold the the dream of becoming financially free."
"You, um..."
"Sold. Yeah. Basically sold that dream and just wasn't achievable for him. You know, your, your mentors uh pushed him, um, uh encouraged him to take further risks to get into further debt and at the end of it he, he took his life because of the way your mentorship um basically how, how your mentorship worked."
"Yeah. I, I mean, firstly, I think that's very, very low to be honest. Um, and what you said was actually defamatory because what you just said was in fact what you've been, is you've been brainwashed by..."
"Well, that's what his family said that, that you were doing to him, that your course was brainwashing him."
"Yeah. I, I mean, here's the reality. The reality is this story, which is a tragic story, and I, I don't even particularly want to speak about to be honest because it's, I think it's it's sad for his family as well. But the reality is this was investigated like mad and there was no link. But the Telegraph even said this, that the, the inquest. Have you seen the inquest?"
"I haven't seen the inquest. No."
"I mean, it might be, it might be an idea to look at the inquest."
"Of course."
"Yeah. Which, which, which talks about why someone passed and why it happened because the inquest was quite clear..."
"That there was zero link with me. So, and, and also you said that the, that be, because, because of my course."
"Yes."
"It's not true though, is it?"
"You, you promised him financial freedom and..."
"But we don't promise anybody financial. We don't promise."
"Well, you, you offer the teach of becoming financially free."
"Do you know what then? Let me ask you a question. What's the, um, statistically how many people take their lives? Do you know?"
"And..."
"I know you can check it later. But in terms of like, well, I'll tell you, it's one in 9,000."
"Yeah."
"We've had a lot more than 9,000 students."
"Yeah."
"So, statistically, it's very horrible and sad, but it is. You know what I mean? To say, 'Oh, someone took their life who was a student of.' No, but you, you have to be fair. You have to say for to say that someone took their life. Oh, and they happen to be your student. When there's no link and the inquest says there's no link."
"The thing is..."
"It's really not fair. I mean..."
"I think you need to take a bit stricter checks with things like this. Don't, don't pressure people further into debt if they're already in debt. I know this is just one example, but..."
"No, I, I think, I think that's quite sickening. I think that's like, I mean, people at university, I mean, there, if you look at Bristol University and look at the stats there, it's staggeringly high. The suicide rate. We, we've actually only had one person ever, take their life and we've had 40,000 plus students. So for you to sit here and say, 'Oh, but that must have been because very nasty.'"
"Well, before his death, he, he shared that he felt manipul, before his death, he, he shared that he felt manipulated by the way that you were, uh, teaching him. Uh, his brother-in-law said that it was brainwashing what you're teaching him. Um, so and, you know, your Trust Pilot has negative reviews on it. Yes, it has good reviews as well, but a lot of it is negative. Um, and on the forums as well, a lot of it on there is negative as well."
"Yeah. I, I mean, listen, the case that you're talking about of the suicide is really low. And I think that it's, it's, it's been debunked. It's being investigated and it's, it's people have also been sued for saying that. Obviously, the thing is with you, at least you're sat here. As as much as you look like you're reading questions, whatever, at least you're sat here, right? So, we can have a conversation."
"Sure."
"But PE, you'll find no press has ever said what you said, which was very defamatory because you said, and this is the problem with the press."
"They might say things like, 'Soldier takes his life after going on this course.' And then people like you read it and go, 'Oh, because of the course.' And then you, people like you get yourself into trouble by saying stuff like that and then getting sued and then you don't have the money to back it up."
"Um, and it's just, it's, it's really sad and it's, it, it's quite low because as I say, I mean, the reality is if someone, if someone got a car and paid 20 grand for a car, whether they got a loan or didn't, you can't say, 'Oh, because you got that car.' It's, I just think that's really, I, you must be able to see that yourself as a reasonable person. You must be able to see that what you said is unfair."
"Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. Should we move on?"
"So, why did you say it?"
"Well, I just, I'm, I'm sure there's got to be some sort of correlation. You know, I may be wrong, but, like from face value, it looks like there is a correlation. And I'm sure you can agree with me from, from a regular viewer."
"No, no, I can't because I think that the thing is in in law, right, let's look at this like as if it was in law. In law, if you were trying to prove that point in court, the question would be, okay, so what did Samuel actually do wrong? And there's nothing. Did people have, we, we just have a a product, sell it, deliver. We've got very, at Trust Pilot, you say we've got unhappy customers. We do have unhappy customers sometimes, but it's very, very, very rare. We've got about 9,000 reviews on on Trust Pilot and we've got 4.8 out of five stars. It's very, very, very high. So, have you ever ran a business or have you ever..."
"I haven't."
"Yeah. Well, maybe we could have another conversation about that when you've got a business, but none that's very low. I also think it's very ironic that you sit here and say, 'Oh, you sell expensive courses and get people into debt.' When you're in debt yourself, 40 grand debt going to university and you're saying, 'I sell people dreams.' You're studying drama."
"Yeah. What's wrong with that?"
"No, there's nothing wrong with it. But there is something wrong with with say, with you, you sitting here and saying I'm selling people expensive courses and it's wrong when you're studying drama and spending 40 grand. I, I can't get, I can't get my head around that."
"Well, I've still got some, something out of uni. Like last week I, I had a couple of acting jobs. So it's..."
"That's brilliant. That's brilliant."
"Were you sent here by somebody cuz they didn't have the courage to come themselves?"
"That's what it feels like."
"Really? Now. Yeah. I, I am, I'm glad I want you to be in Hollywood, you know. I genuinely do."
"Yeah."
"But, and I could show you all the success stories of my customers and I was on a Zoom call with them last uh a couple nights ago, a few hundred of them, and they're all just happy and doing deals and it just feels very strange."
"Okay."
"I don't quite get this."
"Right. Should we move on to uh one last point?"
"Go on."
"Um..."
"Let's talk about rent to rent. I know that's that's a favorite of yours."
"Yeah. Well, it's not a favorite, but it's very good."
"It is very good, actually. It might pay a bit more than your acting jobs."
"Well, uh, it's, it's a bit unethical, don't you think?"
"Okay."
"Yeah."
"Are we going there, are we?"
"We are. Yes. You, uh..."
"Is it as unethical as coming and blaming somebody for a suicide when there's absolutely no evidence or..."
"I'm not blaming you for a suicide. There's..."
"It seems there's a correlation, but let's, let's, let's move on."
"An investigation was done five, six years ago. So..."
"Okay. Okay."
"Yeah. That's fine."
"Um, yes, rent to rent."
"Uh, you know, you encourage people to rent houses from from landlords and then sublet them at even higher prices. So, those tenants who um who have been sublet are going to really, really struggle and I think that's really unethical on them."
"Yeah, I'm struggling a little bit with this one. So, it's unethical on the tenants that are paying the higher rent."
"Yes, cuz you're, you're literally squeezing every last penny out of their pocket."
"But they're paying a lower rent."
"They're paying a higher rent."
"No, they're paying a lower rent."
"Why are they paying rent?"
"That's how rent to rent works. Have you ever done any of my training on rent to bed ever?"
"No."
"Okay, I suggest you do. So, here's how it works. You rent a property."
"Yeah."
"And then what you do is you rent it out room by room."
"Right."
"So, you might rent it for £1,000, but now you're renting out for £600 per room."
"Okay. So now you're providing bills and you're providing affordable accommodation for people and you're taking one house and effectively turning it into four separate accommodation. So you're, you're, you're helping the economy. You're bringing more houses to when there's a massive shortage of houses and you're providing affordable accommodation for people."
"But as a result, you're making money. The way you get rich in life and in business is by adding value. So if you, every time I make money, I'm, people pay me because they're thanking me. So every time I make money, I'm adding value. So if you want to make money, poor people are selfish. People that don't make money, it's because they're not adding or contributing anything to society. They're, they're thinking about themsel and that's why they're poor. They want to be an actor. They wish that they were in Hollywood and that's why they're poor. They're not adding any value to society. Me, I'm actually making the economy better and that's why I'm so rich and I'm very proud to be rich."
"But, but what about that, that middle man in in the rent to rent? Say a single uh a single mom gets a bad rent to rent, she is going to really, really struggle. What do you have to say about that?"
"But a minute ago, you were saying that she was greedy trying to get a rent to rent and now you're saying, isn't it a shame that she's struggling? It doesn't make any sense."
"But if, if that does come up like that scenario, someone might get a, a poor rent to rent."
"Well, then they should have been trained and got a good rent to rent and learn to do their due diligence. That's just the lecture of business. Isn't it a shame that the deer got hunted by the lion? That's the world. We're in a free market. If you don't know what you're doing, you don't know how to do due diligence, you're going to get eaten alive. That's just it."
"Yes. Isn't it sad?"
"It's also, it's also sad that people get ill, isn't it?"
"That's just it. Can't. All we can do is. It's like me here telling people, 'Here's how you're healthy. Here's how you be fit, strong. Go to the gym. Get medical insurance.' And you're going, 'Hey, but it's not right because some people don't do it and some people are ill.' Yeah. I'm here standing here showing people how to do it right. you, you're actually, you're, you're my biggest advocate."
"Okay."
"You've, this, this, I don't know whether you came here, someone paid you to come to try and expose me or what seems all very odd, but this, this what you're doing is really going to help me. I'm going to end up, I'm going to end up getting so much love off of this and you're going to get so badly trolled. I'm going to end up, I'm going to keep your name is unethical."
"I'm going to keep your name anonymous, bro."
"Thank you."
"Cuz you are going to be trolled for this, bro."
"All right. Sure. If you say so. Yeah."
"Bro. I'm worried for you, man."
"Oh, you know."
"But if you do make it as an actor, you do realize that you become an actor and people are going to go, 'Hang on a minute. Why not that douchebag that debates Samuel Le made an absolute ass of himself and now all your acting career is finished?'"
"I'm not, I'm not a believer of cancel culture, but this is the biggest attempt of cancelling oneself I've ever seen."
"Well, I'm sorry you see it that way, but I'm, I'm just saying what I, what I think about you and your business, and I think it's just utterly unethical. But every point you've said, I've answered it very gentlemanlike to the point whereby I've flipped you on his head so bad that you've agreed with me pretty much on every point and now you're still here. I'm just, I'm just baffled, mate."
"I just, I just think a lot of what you're doing is putting money first and people last, tenants last."
"Your courses, you sell that for a really high price. You, you own more than one property which doesn't help the housing crisis that we have right now."
"I'm, I'm done with this conversation. I'm done."
"You're done. All right."
"I'm done with this conversation. Off you go, mate. Off you go."
"The only person I didn't shake hand is this douchebag. The only person I didn't shake his hand. Do you want to go and check all right?"
"Make sure he's all right. Was I too harsh?"
"Fair. Was his game?"
"What was his game? He's gone."
"He, he, he, he had some weird agenda. He did. I reckon he was just paid to come by somebody that was too scared to come this. Ask him this. Oh, ask him this. Oh."