Rethinking Manhood: Episode 2

Welcome to another episode of the Beyond Sundays podcast, where we bring you stories of God's faithfulness from people just like you. Because the God who did, still does. Throughout each episode of this four-week mini-series, we will engage in real conversations with a wide array of guests from all walks of life.

If you missed last week's episode, that's okay. You can catch up later, or pause this video and begin at episode one. Today, we invite you to join Zach Vassar again, our Men's Ministry pastor at Beltway Park Church, as he sits down with a couple of guys to talk about some of the practicalities of spiritual fathering. What is it? What does it look like? How does it happen? And why does it matter?

We hope you are encouraged by the stories shared today, because here's the truth: you need this. I don't know how it will look in your life, but I know you need it, and so do I. Yes, it will look different than what you will hear today in this episode, but just remember, there's no formula for any of this. But it does take, take effort on our part to pursue it, while also being aware of what God may be orchestrating when it comes to the relationships in our lives. Why? Because it leads to life, joy, fun, friendship, help in time of need, adventure, and so much more. I think you'll really enjoy this episode, so let's get to it.

All right, well, hey man, we've got two great men here with us, Joe Don Merman and Chad Hose. These are great friends of mine. Uh, we've been talking a lot about relationship, we've been talking a lot about Kingdom, specifically fathering sons, seeking after mentors, fathers. We've said things that make it resonate a little bit. I'm not sure how I take that, you know, depending on where you're, you know, at in your life and how your upbringing was and all those things. But just to, to lay the foundation here, um, and I felt like it was necessary that we just brought these two guys on to share their journey, the way that their lives have been impacted, not just from others that aren't in the room, but by each other, and the way that that really works out is as fathers and sons. And I don't, you may have guessed that, um, I wanted to say it's not always about age, right? It's really not. Um, but there's a lot of wisdom. I know, I think Joe Don, that you have imparted into our body at Beltway Park, although there's a lot of listeners here that, um, you know, they may be from, whoever, maybe could be on the other side of the world, really, to be honest. But, uh, I'm gonna let these guys introduce themselves, but I, I do just want to say, just in honoring you, like, you do more of just my role. My name is Zach Vassar. I'm the Beltway, uh, Men's Pastor here at Beltway Park Church, and I've been around this ministry for about six years now. Um, and there's a handful of guys that operate from like, a crazy amount of obscurity, meaning there's so much they do behind the scenes of who they are that nobody really knows. And I'm so fired up that you said you had to do in this, because I just want people to know your heart. People get around you for one second and they feel they know the genuineness to it. But man, I'm, I think this is so much fun, and I know you probably feel the same way, because I know you've received him somewhat as a dad in your life. And so we're gonna talk about that right there. These guys are gonna do a lot of the talking, and so would y'all just like introduce yourselves, tell maybe tell everybody what you do, and then I'll just fire some questions at you and we'll just, we'll just go.

So somebody, age before beauty. Yeah, I don't know. You're pretty beautiful too. Maybe you're both. So I'm Joe Don Merman. I, uh, I'm an electrician. Uh, I've been around Beltway for a little over 20 years, and I was here at the beginning of Men's Ministry. We're actually, what's among the men who started it. We didn't know what it was or what it was going to look like. Uh, so, uh, I've been here a long time and I've been in every boot camp that we've ever had. And, uh, I got two sons that are about the same age as Chad. And so that's kind of part of our story, which we'll get into in a little bit. But, uh, anyway, that's, that's who I am. I, I do lots of things. Um, my, my number one gift, spiritual gift, is service, and I happen to be in the service business that I'm like a living at. But that's what I do around the church also. Yeah. Uh, it's not up in front of people all the time, but, uh, I do serve and in lots of ways around here. So I've been here a while. Yeah. Has a real servant's heart. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

My name is Chad Hose. I'm a financial advisor, and I specialize in the investment side of things. So all the nerdy stuff you can imagine, that's what I do. Um, yeah, we've, we've been around Beltway, um, almost 25 years now. Came out for for college and for the most part, I've been here ever since. Um, left for a little bit, but Abilene kind of sucks you back. So yeah, that's what it is. Uh, but I've been around Men's Ministry for, um, I guess almost 15 years now. So not since the beginning like, like Joe Don has, but it's been, been fun to be around and kind of find groups of guys that you can connect with and and men you can be followed by. So I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit more and how that, how that came about. But yeah, I'm, I'm, I guess your youngest son is one year older than me. So we, we knew each other at Hardin Simmons and, so that's, I guess how far our relationship goes back, although I didn't, didn't know you at that point, but I came to know you many years later. So yeah.

So a lot, a lot of times I think there's a perception out there that, you know, you need fathering whenever the, the all the stuff's hit the fan, you know, I've had marital fallout, or there's infidelity, or I'm, you know, I'm coming to come into the lot that I've had alcoholism, or there's drugs, or there's, you know, all these different things. But, you know, Chad, you got married to Carrie in college, yeah, right when we were 20, 20 years old. You've been a faithful man. You said you've been plugged in at church, although you do realize you can hide at church. This can happen. And I'm sure there's been hiding seasons in your life too. Sure. We're all men, right? Um, and, well, all I mean by that is we're human, and we go through things where, um, you know, we pose, we pose, that's the word, yeah, because all we're really talking to is about identity and sonship and bringing each other along the journey together. Um, but, but having said that, you know, um, I just think it's important that the listeners know that, hey, you know, Chad has been, for all intensive purposes, a pretty steady man, you know, but yet, hey, I still need a spiritual dad in my life. So that we're not talking about only because of, you know, ABC. And I think it's so critical that people catch that because, um, the enemy will use anything to try to dismantle your testimony or make it not connecting in some kind of way. And so really, I just want to just stay in that lane. I want you guys to really hear that because I feel like there's more power in, in still talking through these things, regardless of those things. Yeah, yeah.

And steadiness can often be, for me, a struggle of passivity. So I can easily fall into that if, uh, if I'm not keeping that in check or being intentional and finding fathers, finding men that I can run with. I can just fall kind of behind the scenes. So yes, yeah. It happens. Like, when it happens, we don't know how we got there. Like, and it's just a man, how do I get started? So let's, let's go to that start, starting place. You guys, y'all's relationship, you've been here for a long time. Um, it doesn't matter who, but when, when did Chad and Joe Don begin their relationship? When you start to pursue him, or how did that happen?

Yeah, okay. Well, uh, we, we figure it's 10 or 12 years ago. Both of us went to John Eldridge's boot camp in Colorado. Uh, we ended up there together. And so, very innocently, during a break, we were talking. And so I asked Chad, so how old are you? And he tells me, and I said, well, it's the same age as my sons. And I, I said this because, uh, I said, I could be your father. You know, before, yeah, it was just a conversation. Yeah, that's things that are said all the time. Yeah. And so at my age, I got sons, I could be your dad. And so that, that was all that was said at that time. But what, what we see on the surface sometimes, uh, from the human viewpoint, God has something else going in the background. Oh, yeah. And so he did it. We didn't know it at the time, but, uh, he did. We hadn't talked to much about this fathering and son, but we were talking about it some. We don't, we weren't, uh, putting the emphasis on it that we do now. Yeah, but, uh, I, I think, let me, let me add to that before you go on too far. But, uh, because that's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard, we've never really talked about this, so this is this is fun to talk about. Because from my perspective, we just ended a session at that Eldridge boot camp on the father wound. And man, I, I left there kind of questioning a lot. I mean, we all have father wounds. They all look different. You know, I had a good dad, he provided really well, but he wasn't perfect. You know, he's human, just like all of us. So there was, there was still a wound there. And so I left that session kind of raw. And, uh, the Lord was kind of teaching me in this season, this season of like sonship and just kind of ushering me into that. And then here I have this, this man that's my dad's age, a little bit older, actually, and who says, I can, you know, I could be your father. And what my heart heard, I think that was your exact words, but what my heart heard was, I want to father you. And man, I was, it was like, holy cow, no one's ever like, wanted, wanted to to do that. You know, no one's ever stepped forward to say that. Yeah. And so that was meaningful to me and really opened up that, that door because I knew that I had an absence there and a need for fathering in different ways. And I didn't know what it looked like or how to do it. And I would have probably never approached you or approached anybody for that matter, just didn't have the courage to say, but yeah, I need some fathering. But you did after that. Yeah, yeah. You came to me next. I'm sure. Yeah, you opened the door. But I would not, I don't know, he wouldn't have said it. Do you remember how long it was after that? Was it when we got back to Texas? I think it was pretty soon after. Yeah, because I was, I was all gung-ho. It's a long drive back. You're thinking about this stuff. Uh, you remember that thing you said about, you could be my dad? Uh, why don't we pursue that? And it would, you know, it's like, and we didn't know what that looked like. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I didn't know. I knew Chad, but I didn't know him well. So, uh, that's, that's what started. Let me, let me say that not everybody's experience is going to be this is a specifically true thing, and it's not always like this. But you have to, you have to be aware of which God is orchestrating. We were, we were aware and we tuned into, and it turned into something. Yeah. And I'll say, we didn't have a roadmap. We didn't know what it looked like. Or what, when I, when I came back to you after we got back to Texas, it's not like I said, I need a father and here's the things I need to be fathered in and walk me through this. It was like, I don't know what this means, but I want to be faithful and take this first step. And like, yeah, or what it was going to look like. But we started being friends. We, we got together, Carrie, his wife, and Terry, my wife, yeah, got together, and we, we liked each other, and yeah, we got along great, and we had a lot of fun together. And, uh, so it was, it was like, this is meant to be. I mean, I'm supposed to, we're supposed to be part of each other's lives. Yeah, that's how it started. Yeah, yeah.

Man, that's so good. I just, I must just pause right there because some of you guys have listened to a podcast that set some of this up, and we're in this series. And one thing that's really important to catching that is that this, you as a son, in a, in a moment of rawness, you were seeking, whether it would have been you, God used you, but whether it have been Joe Don or not, you'd have probably still been seeking because you were trying to fill that void. And it's not, we're not making, for you guys, we're not making, Joe Don's not God, right? But we're called to be in the image and likeness of Christ. You know, Paul came and talked to us about, uh, imitating him. And, you know, fathering and what is that? And so, you know, I just think it's critical because it happens like, kind of both ways in y'all's story. Um, you're not really knowing, but hey, hey, here it is. Why did I say those words? Why did I say, I could be your dad? Yeah, you know, the Holy Spirit put that out there, I think, yeah, and then orchestrated the whole thing. So, yeah.

So let's do this. Let's think, okay, that was in, what year did y'all decide? I'm trying to figure out. Had to be 2010. Yeah, yeah. Okay, 2011, somewhere. 13 years ago. Both of you guys are here in the middle of your journey, basically at this church. You've been here for 20 some odd years. And here's this moment of time. So in the last 13 years, you know, what are some things that have happened specifically that you can draw to where you, you know, because this relationship, you've, like, hey, I really, this is a time of need. Do you have any moments like that?

Yeah, oh, absolutely. And it's, it's ebbed and flowed. I wouldn't say that it's been, you know, purely intentional and, you know, we haven't been on all the time, but we've always had contact for sure. But there's been more times of of need or more times of things that are going on. Um, my, my wife lost her, her mother. Um, you know, we have two boys that we're raising that we adopted before I knew, uh, really knew Joe Don, but, you know, helping raise a family, what that looks like in my marriage. He's been married longer than I've been alive, right? Like, I don't know, almost, how long have you all been married? Don't get this wrong, Terry's gonna watch this. 48 years. Put you on the spot there. Get to about 49. Yeah, there you go. He's a good man. He knows she doesn't know when it's gonna be aired, so he could be right. Like, freedom. Yeah, yeah. But no, so longer than he's been married, longer than I've been alive. So yeah, like there's times, raised two boys, right? Yeah. Tons of wisdom and experience and just relatability that I can say, hey, I've never been here, but you have. Yeah. What's going on? Or ask for, he's, he's a man of prayer. Like, I ask so much for prayer, probably more than anything. I'm like, yeah, hey, this is going on. Or I was an idiot to my wife. Get a text from Chad. Yeah. Look, it's going on. Would you pray about it?

Okay, stop right there. People get texts all the times. Would you pray for this brother? I got this, I got that. What do you do when you get a text that says, I need prayer?

Well, I, sometimes I, well, I always text him back saying I will. I don't always write out a prayer in my text back to him. But when, when I tell Chad that I'll be praying about it, he knows I will. You literally will pray. Yeah. Well, Terry and I pray together every morning before I go to work. So, and we're all close. And so I tell her, obviously, and we pray about it, uh, every morning. And he follows up. That's, that's another thing I love about you and seeing that through. And the next time I see him, or, you know, what's the event happen, uh, how did it go? Yeah, follow up. Yeah, right. Which is incredibly meaningful for my side to receive. Yeah, because it's not just, I'm a burden and I need prayer and help me here, which is true. Yeah. But it's a, hey, I really was praying and I was, have been thinking about you and just following up. You know, it's really meaningful to me. Or my favorite thing, I'll be driving on the road and I'll get a text from Chad, and it's something about Carrie, you know, and about marriage. And I just laugh. All good. Can I say that? I don't know. Maybe you better clean that up. I know Carrie. Yeah. I laugh and I call him sometimes. I say, welcome to marriage. Yeah, yeah. And so I've been there, done that. So we just talk about it. So yeah, it's, it's fun. And really, I can't think of an aspect of life that I haven't walked through him through, through with him, you know, just like, whether it's marriage or kids or, I don't know, whatever, you know, changing jobs, moving houses, yeah, a lot of transitional things, even in this current season. Yeah, I mean, how long you've been in the new role? It's been a year. Six. No, six. Six months. Yeah, yeah. Six months. So change jobs after, even the previous company, a really long time. So big decision, lots of, a lot of relationships, a lot of praying about that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

And so I think, you know, as you guys are, this seasons, I just get the word seasons, actually written this down, like, what, what is this? There's just time. Some of these relationships are for a particular season, some of them are for the long haul. This, this is, you know, a long-haul relationship. Um, on your side of the fence, you know, Chad's been a recipient of wisdom and encouragement, prayer, absolutely, the different things he's talking about. But like for you, um, the, the total crisp of spiritual maturity is when a father is also receiving from the son. And so what are some things that you have felt like has this done in your heart?

Oh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I tell Chad and you too, uh, a lot of guys, jealous age. Uh, I just like being included in things that y'all do. You actually want me around sometimes. You actually asked me to do things. Yeah. And so that's, it's really, uh, really good for me. Uh, I tell my friends my age, you need to get some younger friends because that's what keeps you young. And so just a friendship that I have with them as younger people, I get to hang out with them and, and I do think it's good for us as far as on, on that level. But, but on the spiritual level also, I receive from Chad. I mean, he's a godly man. He has wisdom about a lot of things. Yeah. And so I asked him about stuff. And what should I invest in? You know, wrong podcast. Yeah. And so, uh, as far as when the four of us get together, you know, it, it, we talk about spiritual things. We have a lot of fun. We go out and do fun stuff. We act up. But, uh, we, there's a deeper, there's a deeper thing there that we talk about spiritual things together. Yeah. And so I received from them, uh, a lot. Yeah.

Well, I'm thankful for our friendship. Y'all, the inception of this is, you're at a Wild at Heart learning about the adventure of a man, and you come out of that. So there's the foundation of your relationship, you know what I'm saying? So there's this adventure, but you've been through stuff. You know, there's been issues medically, there's been things you've had to walk through. You've been around, you know, to talk about that, you know, I mean, what your, you guys are listening to a guy that's had triple bypass surgery, yeah, rotator cuffs, I'm out, all in the last decade, right? Yeah. But it's also like jumping out of an airplane a couple of times, like this crazy stuff. But like from us, you just got to see us while there's stuff that I do. What a hero. Oh, man, this dude's doing it, man. But you're getting live from Chad too. So it's just full circle. I like, I like adventure and fun stuff. Yeah. I'm about to be 75. I want to jump out of the airplane again. How many times have you done that? I've done that twice, and I'm ready to go again. No thanks, Chad. No, you wouldn't do it with me. No, maybe if you asked me, but don't worry about the spot. Here we go. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, he's, he's, it's the same way. I text him, uh, about praying about things. Yeah. It's not, they've got a lot going on in their life right now. They're, they're in different stages of life than we are. But we still have issues with our kids, and we talked to Chad about that. In fact, both of my sons, they know what I do, and they know I have spiritual sons, and they're, they like it. They're glad. I'm glad you went there. I was going to ask about that. They, they're, uh, you're proud of me. They say, you, you need that, that you were good for us. But we're not there. One's in Oregon, one's in Dallas. You know, so I tell them all the time about, uh, my spiritual son, during what we do and have fun. And so they, they love it. And there's been times when Chris is coming to town, and we've come over and, yeah, hung out together. And so that's great. I love the boys are here. So, yeah, boys, it's, it's good to, uh, just have that relationship with Chad and, and some other guys also. Yeah. But Chad and I had that special thing happen. Like I say, it ain't gonna happen like that for everyone. You just don't decide, hey, I'm gonna be his spiritual father. No, that's actually kind of weird. That's, yeah, it happened. You have to be aware of the Holy Spirit working, though. But it does just happen.

Let's back up here. There's multiple guys. So what, you, you've heard, you have other guys that you're following. Wow. This is the first time. Yeah. I'm offended all of a sudden. No, I'm kidding. You got a lot to give and plenty of capacity to do. Yeah. So, well, so tell us, who's fathered you? If you had to name a couple folks in seasons or long hauls or, you know.

Well, when, when I came to Beltway, Beltway, uh, over 20 years ago, I was hungry. Uh, I didn't know exactly for what, but I didn't know much about the Holy Spirit. I didn't know, uh, a lot of spiritual things. I'd been on a Walk to Emmaus, which triggered my interest. And then I did this, this, uh, study called Experiencing God. Yeah. And, you know, I knew a lot about God. I've been church all my life, but I wasn't experiencing him. So when I walked in the Beltway, I felt the Holy Spirit, and that started my journey. So, so guys that have been around David and Quinn, obviously was here when I started. And then this guy, uh, guys that showed up, Randy Reese shows up and, and started, became Men's Pastor. And Quinn Conley, who he's a coach, uh, I, I call him my spiritual coach also. I happen to be like a year older than him. Okay. Interesting. You're older, but he's fathering you. He, when is the spiritual man who knows, uh, he has gift of prophecy, all these gifts. And I, I just, I just soak in from him. And so, and Ken Martin, and Larry Bruner, and Mike Sullivan, all these guys that I, I'm around a lot. Yeah. Who, who we, we kind of went on a journey together, but I think they were a little ahead of me and some things. And so, yeah, I learned. I'm gonna get in a life group with them. Yeah. We meet in small groups. We talk about these things, and we grow in these things.

I'm so glad you mentioned that, just in the, in the name of, you know, how I'm listening to this, but what do I do? How do I connect to this? And really, we want to do our best to help you find community. And that, that's where this whole thing always starts. You have to get involved with someone. Yeah. And you gotta be the seeker. I mean, you, you know, we can't just sit on the couch and expect for these kind of relationships to take place. There's effort. Any kind of relationship, I think about the five love languages, you know, and I heard someone once say, there's five love languages, there's really a sixth one, and it's effort. You can know all this about the needs of people, but if you don't take the steps of action, like, then there's no, there's no thing. But, but as he's sitting here naming these names, and Chad knows all these people and has a relationship probably with a good bit of them, yeah, um, but there's, if you're listening to the podcast, and if you didn't go back and listen to that, but we talk a lot about inheritance. And you can go into Ephesians one, two, and three and read all about the inheritance and of the gifts and things. And, you know, Paul's addressing and, and anyways, these things that you carry that you've got from these different men that have come into your life, begin to work through you into you, which is awesome. And what a dad always wants to do is, you want to see Chad go further, you want to see Chad do more. Your own boys, you know, that's the heart of the father, right? Like, I mean, I want to make the point right here is that, oh, a lot of these guys are named are at boot camp and they're up there giving talks and they're up in front of people. And that's just not my gift. I mean, I can stand up there and talk, but I can't bring a message like they can. And so there have been times in my life where I thought, man, uh, I don't have much to give. Wow. Like those guys too. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, in fact, Quinn Conley, I told you, he had the gift of prophecy. He came to me one day and said, you know what, the enemy's got you convinced that you just don't have very much to give. Yeah. And so, would you agree with that? Oh, what a lie. Yeah. Straight from the pit of hell. Yeah, yeah. But I can relate to that as well. I mean, my gifting is in administration, so we're behind the scenes guys. I mean, we know this, we've talked about this. We've got to find your spot. Yeah. Say, what, what are you good at? I'm good at, well, I had to hook up the electricity and mic the band play, you know, and I, I went a prayer tent and I pray for people. I do things, but yeah, it looks important is what they do, right?

Well, these guys have heard y'all mention boot camp a couple times, or you've said it, never missed one. That's an annual retreat that we do here through our church and as our Men's Ministry. And Joe Don sits and a lot of times what we call the prayer tent. So the guys come out throughout the weekend and on, just a guess, how many men do you think you've sat down with and prayed with like at a camp? One camp, it's three days. Hundreds. Five or ten guys a day. Yeah, however many. No more than that. Yeah, 20. Countless. Yeah, maybe 20 guys a day times the three days we're down there actually. So yeah. And these are guys coming with real struggles, from passivity to, yeah, you know, things, things that could be reportable, you know, I mean, just the whole gamut. Well, yeah, the stories I hear, I, I couldn't make up stuff down here. I mean, it, it's, it's eye-opening. It's shocking to me at times, but, uh, uh, it's, it's what's out there. Yeah. But what I'll also means is, you know, you've been proven to be trustworthy with the hearts of men. I think that's, you know, the core fathering. As I'm listening to y'all, this is what the enemy came and did at the very beginning, is said, did God really say that? Compromising the trust of the nature of a father. Would you say that you trust Joe Don? Yeah, absolutely. And would you say that because of this relationship, it's even added a measure of trust that you have with the heavenly father, even more? Oh, sure. Yeah, it's, it's additive to what that father-son relationship looks like. You know, and, um, you're never going to find, you mentioned this earlier, that Joe Don's not God. You know, I'm not trying to replace God, yeah, as father with Joe Don as father, or replace my earthly father, you know, that's, that's not the goal here. There's no one man that's gonna be everything that you need him to be, other than Jesus, right? So, right. You know, if you're looking to find one man to be your father, that does everything, that can relate in every single way, and, you know, that's going to lead you through everything, that's just not what you're looking for. But the point is, he's going to point me back to the father. Yes. You know, I want to show you how to be a son. Said, I'm not the replacement of anything for him. I'm just an audition, right? Like another layer. I'm not his dad. I'm not his earthly father. Not his heavenly father. I'm just another guy who can help serve that role in some places in his life. That's all it is. And have you seen Chad grow over the years? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Grow out in the midsection is what you mean. Did he have his hair when y'all first met? Because I saw a picture the other day, yeah, y'all, Carrie posted it. He had a full head of hair. And yeah, there was a time in my life when I had to hold down. That's Chad. Carrie's had two husbands.

Well, man, this has been super fun, and this is exactly what I felt like the Lord, um, you know, what a conversation. And I know there's more. We've got limited on time, but we'll come back someday. Uh, I do want to say, I mentioned ways to connect. We really genuinely want to do that. You know, we have a whole online campus ministry here. Sarah Turner is a pastor of that. She's incredible. And so, you know, any, anything in the comments below, if you've got anything you'd like to know, ask, man, what's it, what's it, what can, how could we be praying for you? I mean, just whatever that looks like. We're, you know, in the Kingdom, it's the hands are open, and so this is how our posture is, and we want to be that. Um, I love that you mentioned David. I just want to say, and here's why, because there is also an element to fathering that sometimes the relationships aren't close-knit like this in the same town. I've been fathered at times from the stage, from a speaker, that maybe a book that they've written, you know, so that, you know, the Kingdom of God has no limits. And so, man, let this be a fathering moment to you, just hearing a rich conversation. I hope that imparts something to you. So even as a listener online, there's so much substance in what we're doing with an online campus. I think it's incredible. So you, you can absolutely, you know, receive in, in all those ways. Um, real quick, while we got just a couple seconds, y'all have three seconds to answer this question, okay? You ready? I mean, you got three seconds. What book are you reading right now?

I'm actually reading a book on, uh, fathering that you gave me. Yeah, yeah. And about going through Ceremony Uprising. Is that what it is? Restoration Project. That's the one. Yeah, yeah. I'm reading Sage. Oh, no, that's another one. I did Create Uprising myself. Yes, which is Chris Balaton. Yeah. It's funny, all these books are in fathering stages of life maturity. Um, so, hey, from, I mean, from you out there, like, what, what goes in, comes out. Start feeding yourself these, these things that'll be super helpful to you.

When's the last place you took Terry on a date? Movie? What'd you see? A movie? What movie?

I got, which one it was. It hadn't been that long, but I can't remember. Y'all saw Top Gun. We did. Yeah, at home. Does that count? Yeah, it counts at home. Yeah, yeah. Quality time for sure. We spent a lot of quality time together. That's really big for us. Yeah. All right. What? Yeah. Terry and I are home alone, so yeah.

And you mentioned stages. You're fixing to be empty nesters. Yeah. Coming up soon. Yeah. There'll be a whole another. Yeah, yeah. I told him, I looked, I looked forward to it. When I was, as I shoot, I still like carrying some guys. It works out pretty well. Yeah, yeah. I'm looking forward to it. That means we'll be coming over a lot more. We have more free time. All right. Yeah. We love spending time with them. We have a lot of fun. Laughter, laughter is good medicine. Oh, for sure.

Well, thank y'all. I love you guys. Appreciate y'all sharing. I know people are listening. Appreciate it too. So thanks for having us on. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you together. And thank you, Joe Don, for being being a spiritual dad to me. Thank you.

We hope you enjoyed today's episode and feel encouraged to embrace the adventure, fun, and personal growth that comes when you pursue the right relationships. Remember, there is no roadmap or formula to any of this. But if there is a lie that you're believing that somehow is holding you back from some of this or all of it, I encourage you to be honest about that. Confess it to the Lord, and then let that remain in the past because you were made for relationship with other men. And I know I'm not a guy, but I can say that because I believe it for my husband. I want this for him. So in our family, what we've done is we have created space for this in his life. And as his wife, I am extremely thankful that he has men and fathers pouring into him, praying for him, holding him up, holding him accountable. It's so, so valuable, and I wouldn't trade those relationships and those friendships for anything because they're so life-giving, which in turn blesses me as his wife, in our family, and others. So if you're looking for this too, Men's Boot Camp is a great place to start, and it's coming up. We'll have links and resources about Boot Camp and other things mentioned in today's episode if you'll just take a look at the description below this video. Plus, stay tuned for episode three of this mini-series, which will drop next week. Thanks so much for listening to this special edition and for watching this special edition of the Beyond Sundays podcast. We hope you guys have an amazing day, and remember, God is always moving, and He's moving in your life too. Beyond Sundays.