Transcription
I get on a lot of planes because of my job and they'll say, "What do you do?" And I'll say, "Well, I teach." They say, "What do you teach?" I say, "Well, I teach. I teach to help Christians live like Christians." And they'll nudge me and say, "Well, I got a buddy who says he's a Christian." I hope you're successful because a lot of people I know say they're believers, but if that's what a believer is, I don't want any part of it.
My name is Chip Ingram. I'm uh currently the CEO and actually founder of Living on the Edge. I was a local church pastor for 36 years in really tiny rural churches, then medium-sized churches, and then very, very large churches. And uh found that God wants all those kind of churches. But my heart's desire really is um how do we help leaders become who God wants them to become? Because at the heart of leadership really is the heart. I'm often asked Christians living like Christians. It sounds like an oxymoron. I mean, where did that come from? Why is that your passion?
I grew up in a non-Bible teaching church. We went regularly, you know, I heard the little stories about Jesus. And I got to be about 14, 15, maybe all the way up to 16. And I looked around and I realized there is nobody that takes us seriously. I mean, it was almost like, you know, when you get older, you realize there is no tooth fairy. Uh there is no real Easter Bunny. There is no Santa Claus. And really there's no no God. So just try to be nice people. And the the level of hypocrisy of what I heard and what I saw, it was like, I'm out of here.
And I remember graduating from high school, throwing my hat in the air, and Jackie, who was a a good friend, not a girlfriend, just a good friend. And she turned to me and said, "You must be really happy right now." And I said, "Well, why?" She goes, "Well, you date this really, really cute girl. You did well in school. You got a basketball scholarship." And I don't know. I at that time knew nothing about the Holy Spirit. But it's like the most empty feeling I ever had in my life came over me and I thought I'd already decided I'm going at 30 or 32 I'm going to be a community leader. I'm going to drive a luxury car. I have a beautiful wife. I have three kids. I'm going to have a golden retriever. I I mean I was very clear on my goals and maybe from my upbringing it's like it never dawned on me that I wouldn't be successful because I'm going to get up earlier blah. I mean the whole mantra of me me work hard. And in that moment I realized there's got to be more to life.
And I prayed a very honest prayer. God, if you exist, cuz I didn't know. If you exist, reveal yourself to me in a way I can understand. And um it's a longer story, but a week later, I found myself at FCA camp, seeing the gospel, opening the Bible for the first time. The spirit of God convicting me of my sin, giving me hope, and in the empty hands of faith, I prayed a pretty lame but very honest prayer put my faith in Christ. I could not put down that Bible. And God just yanked me out of all that and said, "I want you to coach my team." And uh so I found myself um going to seminary uh pastoring a little church of 35 people in rural Texas.
And I just again I saw the hypocrisy. And not that I had it all together, but I thought lost people like me, like I was, they're never going to get that God is real because people say this and they live like this. I'm going for broke. I'm just going to tell it like it is. If Jesus said help the poor, you know what? I We're going to help the poor. If he cares about HIV patients, we're going to help them. We're going to do something. If he says live a pure life, we're going to own that. And when we mess up, we're just going to tell people, "I messed up." You are the only Christian that some people will ever meet. And you don't have to be perfect. But man, you got to be real. You got to be honest. You got to be loving. And yes, you have to be holy even as he is holy.
One of the things I think that doesn't allow us to be uh the kind of Christians that live like Christians is we don't have a clear target. I mean I've asked and I'm not exaggerating tens of thousands of pastors all around the world. I've asked him so Jesus said make disciples of all nations define a disciple for me. And I mean how do you know when when you're a disciple or not? Well, obviously salvation, justification, but I I mean, how would you measure where someone is a mature disciple? If Jesus said, you know, be ye perfect even as my heavenly father is perfect, right? That same word, right? It's the word tellios of design. Fulfill your design, right? It's the word that James uses in James 1. Why? Why difficulties come allow it to have its perfecting result that you might be tell or perfect, mature? So, how do you define a disciple? And I get, if I ask 100 pastors, I get 99 different answers. And it usually boils down to, well, let's see. They come to church really regularly. Uh they give money. Uh they serve. Uh they even I mean, not they give, but they they actually tithe. And um and and they they're trying really hard to be good people. All those things are good. Question. Can you think of anybody in the New Testament that knew the Bible really well, served, they actually fasted twice a week, uh had a lot of spiritual activity, and Jesus wasn't very happy with. Okay, think right. The Pharisees, hey, spiritual activity does not equal spiritual maturity.
Can you imagine owning a company that produces computers and you hire two or three people and they say we produce computers, but then they say, um, so how do you know if a computer is a good computer? And you say, I I don't know, just put a lot of parts together and ship it out. And then if you know, your sales team says, you know, we're doing great. We sold a 100 computers, but 90 of them don't work. They don't connect to the internet. uh they don't run but one piece of software. You would stop immediately say, "Stop the presses. We got to fix this. We got a quality control problem." I think there's times where God would say, "Would you stop all your spiritual activity and get crystal clear? If you can't see it and measure it, you can't produce it."
We must be what we want others to become. and we can't do it. Jesus said, "Apart from me, you can't do anything." And I would just encourage you um to look at your life and just ask yourself, is your current behavior and current activities and curtain meetings and all this stuff, is it really developing you in ways where the ministry, remember when it was an overflow? remember when it was like, "Wow, I can't believe I get to do this." And, you know, I shared my faith and and now it's meetings and you sit behind a computer most of the time. And, you know, after the service, you, you know, tried to get away as fast as possible. And you know what? That's that was never what you wanted to do or be. That is definitely not what God wants you to do or be. But the pressure of people and the expectations of people, you know something? And um you need to be I need to be imperfectly but progressively and passionately. We need to be a Christian who lives like a Christian to produce Christians who live like Christians. And that means that coming before God doing life in community and being on mission personally is just a part of the rhythm of your life. And God is so for you and he so wants to meet with you and he wants you to have people that you can really share with so that you don't do this alone.
I want to be a Christian who lives like a Christian and a world system is trying to box me in in my own flesh and the enemy is attacking. So I have to be in God's word every day and I have to have Yes. couples. I'm in a I'm in a I'm in a group. We do a three-hour dinner and get caught up on everything and share deeply. And that I have men in my life. That I'm just chip and these are my struggles. These are my challenges. And by the way, these are the victories. You know, some of the greatest things you can't share because people think you're arrogant. You need people that know who you really are. You say, "Can you believe it? This happened? this you I wrote this book and like I partnered with Moody and and people that are with anxiety and they're choosing joy and man you know you can't do that with you know if you do that people think oh you know I don't care what but you do that with people who say man isn't that great cuz I know you're a regular guy you know in fact I'm pretty surprised that God could do anything through you you know giving me a hard time so uh I I do pray that you would make becoming a man or a woman of God. Uh not some legalistic do these spiritual exercises but you know knowing him enjoying him feeling loved by him um being tenderhearted. Not beat yourself up all the time. not compare yourself with other people's ministries or lives, but just, you know, to quote the psalmist, to be still and just know he's God. Know that he loves you for you. Uh it's hard, it's a battle.
And uh I'll close with a quote by Dallas Willard. I It's one of those, it's a great quote, but it's been a real challenge for me to live it out. He said, um, the greatest gift that you will ever give to another person, the greatest gift you'll ever give to the world will be who you become, not what you do. And I think he's right. I've rarely, you know, done a funeral and everyone sort of looked down at that casket or afterwards and they say, "Man, he sure had a good watch." Or, "Do you know how many likes he had?" or you know how much money he had or or she I mean I mean it it's like the only thing they sit around right they sit around and talk about um he was kind to me she cared when I really went through that problem in my marriage you know um let's become Christians who live like Christians.