There's A Global Run On Physical Gold (And Silver) Starting Right Now | Andy Schectman

And we should be live. Welcome to Thoughtful Money. I'm Thoughtful Money founder and your host, Adam Tagert, welcoming you here for another um monthly session with Thoughtful Money's endorsed precious metals analyst. And of course, I'm talking about none other than the wonderful Andy Shechman from Miles Franklin.

Andy, how are you, Adam?

What a what a nice introduction. I'm well, thank you. Thanks for having me, buddy.

Well, thanks so much for joining, folks. Uh quick apologies. Uh I'm hair's still drying from the shower. Just got in late last night from being on the road for a couple of days. Um so uh if I seem uh like I'm just getting into the groove here, that's the reasons behind it.

Um Andy, also just want to say too first before we we we get into all the topics that we have to talk about today and there's a lot to talk about. Um just want to say thank you again for how nicely this partnership between Thala Money and Miles Franklin has kicked off. Um, clearly it seems like there's a lot of people that has, you know, gone over and and been helped by your staff. Uh, I just want to say the feedback that I've gotten from folks has been nothing but positive. Um, you know, when you enter into a partnership, uh, you have hopes for it. Um, but I'm kind of from a school of like trust but verify. You know, make sure that your assumptions actually pay off. So far, uh, it has been everything I could have hoped for. So, I just want to thank you for how well you

Thank you. No, the honor truly is mine. So, um I uh I I it's my pleasure to and it's awesome to hear such great feedback. Appreciate that.

Okay, great. All right. Well, look, um enough of the love fest. We'll jump into the good stuff here. I I'm really trying not to to start today's discussion off with silver, Andy, because I feel like um you know, gold is has has you know, had a little bit of a price correction, but it is remaining strong here. And uh the miners uh have uh you know caught up a bit to gold this year. Uh they still have further to go if if historical ratios hold. Um but silver has been kind of dancing here in between 32 and 35 looking like it's just getting ready for that breakout. And we we talked about kind of the precious metals complex is moving like a whip. Uh the gold handle moves first then the miners move after and they move further but then the silver as the tip moves the furthest the fastest. But let's let's set that aside as a teaser. as much as I want to start there.

Um, so I guess first we we got a number of topics we want to get into, but I guess first let me just ask you a broad question, which is, you know, we thought that gold was going to have some sort of pullback uh because it had risen so far so fast. It got up to about 3,500 an ounce. Um, certainly did on the uh on the futures markets and I think maybe briefly it got there on spot. You would know better than I.

It did.

Okay, it did. And then we saw it, you know, got kind of beaten down um into the lower 300 3000s. Um today and the day we're talking had a strong day yesterday. It's up above 3,300 an ounce again today. So what do you think here? Has the pullback largely uh been over? And is this sort of a healthy correction? Do the fundamentals still look good for the gold price going forward from here?

I I honestly I don't think um I don't think they've ever looked better. I I mean just in the month of May, Adam, we've seen a 700% spike in gold delivery from um last year, same time, and which is May is usually a quiet month for for gold. Um we've seen the largest delivery into the history of the coax market. Last I looked it was over 16,000 contracts at 100 ounces a piece. people are institutions, whoever the heck it is, US government, um, Treasury itself, I don't know, they're standing for delivery at a at a level nobody has ever witnessed before. Um, 16,000 contracts, Adam, is 5.3 billion worth of gold.

Wow.

The largest delivery in the history of the Comx market, not just in gold, but also in silver, too. So there's a huge demand for physical holding of gold and silver and and you look at you know the gold price um that gets knocked down by 200 bucks $100 for two days in a row nearly and it shoots right back up. That that's strength and resilience that I have never seen in 35 years. So, uh, to me, the physical demand is overwhelming the paper price. And this is this is, you know, I was I was reading something on on X the other day, um, a comment, if you will, between um, uh, Vince Lansancy and, uh, Luke Groman. And you know, Luke said, "Now imagine what happens if it was the US government bringing back that gold." And the response to all the commercial banks because they were basically saying that there was um it almost looked like a uh sell-only market that they were a coordinated fashion that they got together with the managed money and said this is about to blow up the whole market. There is no more buying allowed only, sell only. And that's what he was intimating. And he says uh and response to the above from the US government is fu. He says send us more gold next month too and more behind for Jul July, August and September. And Vince Lansancy says it was Luke. It was no ifs, ands or buts. You know it. Bullion banks to cover the treasury calling it back or the department of treasury itself. It most certainly was. Now these are two of the smartest guys in the world. And basically what they're saying is that it's US government bringing all this gold back in. And if you look month over month over month over month, in fact, let me if you don't mind just share one thing with you.

Absolutely.

Um this is just the the month over month increase in since last year if you can see that. Um Comx gold delivery. This is not something that is is just uh an outlier in one month. month over month over month over month over month and really this goes back to November. So when you talk about um when you talk about where we are I I would just simply say the biggest money in the world uh has been using um any sign of weakness to stand for delivery and to accumulate more and the price keeps going higher and higher and higher. It's not just here. Uh, you know, you look at what's happening even in China, too. And and, uh, the numbers are off the charts in China. Um, I think they bought the the amount of gold that they just bought was an 11-month high uh, this last month. So, yeah, I think the best of of what we could expect to see in gold prices is still and silver is still way way in front of us is is still to come.

Okay. So, I'm just going to pull this back up for a second, Andy. So um if if we were looking at the same table a year ago, so in mid 2024, what kind of percent changes would we have seen? Do you know that off the top of your head?

I don't know it off the top of my head, but I would think it would be minuscule at best, like single digits, not even I mean maybe even the other way. Probably the other way if I had to guess in net exporter um would be my guess. um because you know the the previous administration had you know had no affinity to bringing gold in into the comx certainly so it would have only been trader based this is something different and this really happened since November of of 2024 so I don't know for sure but if I were betting in Vegas I would say it was almost inverse of what we're seeing here um certainly not not what we're seeing on this chart So, I don't know, but I would be way way way different than it is here.

Okay. Um, so basically, we're seeing a very market increase year-over-year, and that increase keeps gaining month over month so far this year. Um, just for folks that would say, "Hey, Andy, you can't really look at the May and April numbers because they're so um polluted by people trying to frontr run tariffs and stuff like that." What would your answer be?

that this has nothing to do with tariffs. Um, this is this, you know, the conventional wisdom was that it was it was tariffs and arbitrage. Okay, there's a little bit of that. That's fine. But but this is far different. That that's the cover if you ask me. And you know, you put it in context, for example, with President Trump's tweet on Easter Sunday, the golden rule of negotiating, he who has the gold makes the rules. Really, that that's interesting. You you you put it in context with Treasury Secretary Bent, who is a self-proclaimed gold bug, by the way, and whose largest holding in in his last job running a hedge fund was in gold, that there would be a new monetary system implemented within this administration, a new Breton Woods, he said. So, you know, when you put all of these things together, you know, you've done an interview with Judy Shelton, we've talked about that, her idea of backing treasuries with gold. She told me, I don't know if she told you. I But she told me flat out that Trump told her that he would issue gold back treasuries on July 4th next year, the 250.

I did not hear that.

That that that's actually really interesting.

Okay. Which is the 250th year anniversary of the country. She told me that uh that he told her that. Now, what does that mean? You know, maybe he changes his mind, but she's she's a very bright lady and more or less says that that's what she was hedging at. And so I think that there's something far more important happening with gold. Um far more happening with gold. And you know, you talk about like the smash in these markets. Well, the silver smash, 60 million ounces of silver on paper were dumped in one hour last week when the price got smashed. It's a sign of desperation. Maybe to cover physically. I don't know. Because here we are. The silver price is right back up. And I just think that this is something far different than the media is portraying. Certainly, it's a lot more than than tariffs. That I would bet I would I would bet just about anything against.

Okay. And if if you have easy access to that data, we can look at it uh next month and see if the trend continues. And presumably, you know, the tariff situation has gotten better. I mean, it's still out there for sure, but um a lot of this bullion is coming from London, right? The vaults in London.

Yeah.

and we've struck a trade deal with the UK. So, if there's one country that, you know, we've got some resolution on tariff-wise, it's it's the UK. And so, theoretically, I would think that wouldn't manifest uh in higher numbers next month if tariffs were playing a role here, which you don't think they are.

No, I really don't. And and you think about this, you know, this trade deal. It's like it's it's two drunk guys holding each other up from falling. It's the largest debtor nation in the world selling its debt to the second largest. Um, it's silly almost. Um, it truly is as far as I'm concerned when you think about it. To put any stock in that to me is is is just smoking.

Sorry, your analogy there, the drunk holding up the other drunk. It's the US holding up China, right? And vice versa. Those are the two drunk.

No, I mean

No, I mean it's the UK and the United States, the two most indebted nations, you know, that are buying each other's debt is really what it is. And I guess I should have rephrased it a different way.

That's okay. What you're saying is true. At the same time, the United Kingdom right as they made that announcement uh has surpassed China in the second largest holding holder of our treasury debt. Um so they're continuing to buy our debt as we buddy up. Um they're now number two as China has slid to number three. So, it's the two of us are holding each other up and the two most indebted nations in the world buying each other's debt with freshly created money is just uh kind of kind of silly to me.

Okay. Um yeah, I think well it's reason why you encourage people to own gold and it's one of the reasons why a lot of people watching here right now hold gold as well. So, let's use that debt then as a segue to our next topic, which is um the the Fed has been um buying bonds um in some ways that you think may be more covert than overt. Um they have to buy some bonds anyways just to maintain the QT ratios that they're trying to maintain. Um but I think you've got some some there's some other data there that's catching your eye. And then China has been selling bonds. So, uh, or or

Yeah.

Um, so let's let's talk about both of those and how they interplay together.

Well, you know, we were we're were supposedly implementing quantitative tightening. Um, and then quietly last week in the midst of China selling bonds to uh, you know, down they're down to 740 or 50 billion in our treasuries, they were up just under two trillion at one point. As I mentioned, the UK has now slid into number two. So, they've been selling treasuries for a while. Net net since 2014, there's been no central bank new buying of of treasuries. They've been buying them, but more selling than buying. And and China is right at the top of that. Of course, you got Japan up there threatening, saying that selling their treasury stock is is on the table. And you could very well see that. Um, but you talk about the Fed coming in and implementing stealth QE. They bought 20 billion in three-year treasuries on Cinco de Mayo on May 5th. They bought 34.8 in 10-year on the 6th and 7th and 8.8 in 30-year. That's that's a lot more than just maintaining a ratio. You know that that's that's a a massive almost 44 billion in treasuries and they do it in a very stealth manner. Um it just seems to me that the demand for the long bond is drying up. um same thing you're seeing in the United I mean in in Japan right now and they step in to prevent I don't want to be as dramatic as saying a failed auction but um it's plugging holes in a sink sinking ship without calling it a leak is really what it is as far as I'm concerned and and yet rates continue to go higher and what's really impressive is that even in the face of rising rates we see gold continuing to move higher which goes to show as far as I'm concerned a a lack of demand andor trust in institutions such as the bond market, such as the Federal Reserve, um, such as the US dollar, and there's just more demand for lack of counterparty risk assets in your own possession like gold. And we're seeing that at the highest levels.

Okay. And that's that's what I was going to ask you. So um you know in some ways uh higher bond yields are negative for gold in the sense that gold doesn't provide a yield right that's what critics will say and if bonds are creating offering a higher and higher yield then bonds look more attractive next to gold u but also high yields tend to manifest in the time where people are going risk off right and gold is a riskoff asset and it sounds like you are indeed interpreting today's action both in higher bond yields and higher gold prices as people are just losing increasing faith in the system and it's really a riskoff.

Yeah.

Right. I mean, you know, how high can yields go in a in a system that is losing trust? You know, do you want it do you want does the yield really even matter at that point? I guess. And so it's it's more along the lines of who's issuing said yield and and you know yield should there will be demand at a certain yield but you know I think anyone who would accept a 4% 4 and a.5% yield on a on a 10-year Treasury right now you know you have to think twice about that the dollar's lost 9% this year alone let alone the money creation and the inflation. So, it's a you look at last year as an example, the 10-year Treasury earned 4%, gold was up 40%, no counterparty risk. You look at the last 25 years, gold has doubled the performance of the 10-year Treasury, no counterparty risk. This is the trend that I think is being realized by by central banks that holding our debt is not really what it once used to be. It's a system based on trust. It used to be back backed by gold, but you know, I did an interview with Ronnie Stoerly the other day and he said it what where we are, it's like your wife came home or you come home and find your wife in bed with the pool boy. Do you ever get that trust back? That's the way the world I think is looking at the Treasury um on many levels, not only monetary and fiscal irresponsibility, but also the sanctions and and these tariffs which are almost tariffs that underneath are really sanctions and this is an issue of trust or maybe loss of trust in in in the system.

Yeah.

Well, let's talk about the system. Um so uh you know Moody's came out on Friday and downgraded the US national debt rating right um and that may be some of the reason why um gold you know is getting a bit of a lift this this week. Um but basically you know that is a sign of of loss of faith you know some degree of loss of faith in the current US system. But it does beg the question, okay, well, if I'm getting a little bit more nervous to hold US bonds, well, who's forgetting about gold for a second, whose debt do I hold, right? And if you look over at Japan, you know, we're seeing folks don't want to hold their debt, right? You know, their bond yields on the long end have have exploded to highs we haven't seen for decades. Um, who else looks attractive on this? And and and I'd love to have your answer to that question in general. Does anybody really look attractive? And of course to to replace you know an asset like the US Treasury it has to be a super deep bond market. So you know there aren't a lot of countries that have a market um that could compete. Um so is that another reason why people are just turning to gold which is like I'm looking around the debt landscape and and the safest what I thought was the safest asset there I'm less interested in. I'm looking at everything else. It doesn't look much better. So therefore I got to find something you know I can still have faith in. And I guess this thing that we've had faith in for several thousand years maybe that's what I'm going to hold more of.

I think that's a very accurate statement. Um, certainly one of the reasons I was listening to your uh your interview with Bill Fleenstein, who I've known for a very long time and have great respect for, and he he said something that I thought was very funny, and I I made note of it, and he said, "We used to call that on Wall Street a who problem. Uh, who do we sell it to?" Well, that's kind of it in the opposite side of it is that who wants to hold it? And why would you want to hold a debt of a of a country that you know he mentions 37 trillion in debt? Well, but that doesn't take into account the unfunded liabilities. And so when you talk about a 37 trillion in debt and Moody says, you know, well, one of the reasons we're going to do it is because debt to GDP is projected to hit 134 by 2035. You add in Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the government and military retirement plans and pensions, you're way north of 200. And there's never been a country that's crossed 130 to my recession recollection that's ever come back without either hyperinflating or or outright defaulting. Um, and so, you know, it's people don't understand how big those numbers are. A trillion seconds ago was 31,688 years ago. and and that's just one trillion second. And you talk about other reasons why people wouldn't want to hold our debt aside from the weaponization of of the of the of the Treasury market with Russia. And and I put that in context. Look, I I'm I'm a proud American and a patriot and this country's given me opportunities that frankly I I wouldn't have found anywhere else in the world. And I fully understand that. But look at it from the other, you know, the other side of the world, their perspective. We invaded Iraq 21 years ago and we're still there and we are there for, you know, what ultimately was false pretenses and we're still there. We didn't say we're sorry. There were no consequences for destroying their country and um right, wrong or indifferent. And and so when you talk about going in and seizing Russia's 5 billion in treasuries and using it to fund the Ukrainian war largely in the form of weapons against the country they're into war with, that's a tough line to come back from. So you have that. you have this rising debt to GDP uh nightmare and you have no fiscal responsibility. You know, DOA showed just how screwed up we really are. And to Fleenstein's point on your show, you have half of half of the um you know, the congressional leaders are pushing back and going after Elon for exposing it. They're not doing anything about it. They've only knocked off 150 billion, not the two trillion. And and they're getting constant push back. And and and if they were really serious about fixing this, then they wouldn't ask Congress to raise a debt ceiling again. And we're already approaching, you know, we're going to approach two trillion in deficit spending this year. Let's put it this way. We owe $9 trillion, I think, within the next year or less. We owe 28 trillion. These are just maturing treasuries. By 2028, we take in 15 trillion in tax revenue over the next three years to 2028. We're we're halfway there. That doesn't take into account the deficit spending between now and then. So, we're a country that is is not writing our ways of reducing spending. Um a trillion dollar military bill. You know, we need a strong military, but we're spending more than everyone in the world. And that's discretional, meaning we're borrowing that money. So then when you take a step back and look at the Fed coming in and buying 3, 10, and 30-year treasuries, does that have a different significance to it? I don't know. I I'm just simply saying that I think anyone that would hold our treasuries of any duration um over something like gold, especially in the context of counterparty risk and performance over the last several years, um I think needs to reevaluate that. Maybe that's why we're not seeing any new net buying and seeing countries like UK replace China in terms of who is number two on who is willing to hold our debt, right? And we are seeing along the way um an increase in gold buying by sovereign central banks. So I mean the world the the nations of the world are showing a preference for gold versus US treasuries.

Um curious to get your thoughts on this Andy. So, um, you know, there's been a lot of debate on this channel, uh, in recent weeks about the potential effectiveness of the new administration's economic policies as we're starting to get some more clarity here. And, you know, I have argued sort of the pros and the cons. Um, here is what I consider to be one of the cons. Um, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this. So, it's relevant to what you were saying. Um the the big beautiful bill, right, which is now uh trying to make its way through Congress. Um you know, includes a lot of tax cuts and uh deregulation, a lot of things like that, but it will quote massively increase near-term deficits and add 5 trillion in debt. Um uh so uh it I don't think it's really been explained yet. the math has been explained to the the general populace about okay well we're going to see some short-term increase in the status quo of excess spending and more debt but hopefully that's going to pay off in the long term but to be honest that sounds like every political bill promise you know uh let's spend the money now and and hope the savings come later. So, um, a I'd love to get your general reaction to that, but but in the the tenor of

What you were saying earlier, investors probably look at that and say, “You know what, forget the lip service we’re hearing about everything.” These guys are just going to lean into digging the hole even deeper. Well, that that’s just what it is. There there’s no fiscal responsibility. And when when you you know you look at at tax cuts and deregulation, sure that that ultimately will be bullish, but adding to the debt is the biggest problem. That that therein kind of lies the the quandary that Jerome Powell finds him himself in.

Um, you know, when when you when you’re trying to um [Music] to continue to deficit spend um and the debt grows bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, interest rates have to rise in order to attract people to to take your debt. But with rising interest rates, you have a slowing economy and you reach a level where it just becomes unsustainable with all of the debt. But just the cost of maintaining the government um debt becomes unsustainable and you see a slowdown in in the economy. This is kind of why I think Jerome Powell hinted at abandoning the dual mandate. So in other words, you have to do all you can to suppress interest rates, but at the same time then who wants to buy our treasuries?

So, and this is the quandry that we’re in: Continue to expand your debt and find people willing to take to buy it, who’s going to buy it, and who’s going to buy it at these rates when we continue to become more and more and more and more indebted. Um, over time, maybe that reverses. Look, the nobility of what Trump is trying to do is is sound. We do need to bring this stuff home. We have to um this is Triffin’s dilemma. This is the whole concept of Triffin’s dilemma that when you run the world reserve currency, the world needs more dollars than it can earn from US exports alone.

Um, and so this is a situation where the US must export dollars. The demand for the dollar, Trump wants a weak dollar, but the thing is is that you can’t have a weak dollar and be the world reserve currency. It doesn’t work because the demand for dollars is greater than commerce would ever achieve. And so the the buying constant accumulation of dollars makes the dollar strong. And as that dollar, you know, it the strength of that dollar um creates a a a an incentive for manufacturing to leave. This is why our we have this trade imbalance as well because not only you know not only uh is our largest export US dollars but if the dollar is strong and you can manufacture in another country in a weaker currency and and it’s massive cost cost savings, well that’s what you do.

But let’s just put it in the concept of you know you almost have to look at what’s happening Adam through a different prism because okay on one end the the the the White House has spoken about Triffin’s dilemma; Vance has come out and said maybe being the world reserve currency is a detriment more than it is a benefit. They understand that it is impossible to not have a trade imbalance when you are the world reserve currency. So, but what has that done for us? Having the trade imbalance a and expecting people to sell us their their goods for paper dollars that we create out of thin air and then expect them to take the proceeds and reinvest in treasuries has created an environment of low interest rates, high asset prices, and cheap goods. And so for us to push back and say it’s unfair, but is it really unfair? Is it unfair that we’ve had abnormally low interest rates and abnormally cheap goods and abnormally high asset prices?

So, what happens if we push back and push back and push back and incentivize the world to move away from taking the Treasury and holding our dollars? What happens? Well, rates will go higher and that and that’s why, you know, I think that’s the bottom line. And as rates go higher and we become more indebted, well, how do we service that debt? As rates go higher, you see a slowing of the economy. It’s not easy to get money anymore. And and you see all of you layoffs and and corporate profits going down. And this is why people talk of stagflation or even hyper stagflation. We’re in a pickle.

So you could be really a big contrarian and say, well, maybe he’s doing this purposely. Maybe he’s trying to reset the system to, you know, to to have that moment where countries massively move away from US treasuries and dollars and interest rates spike to the heavens. And what happens? They did it to us. How could they do that to us and rates spike? And in that spiking moment, you reset the system. Stocks, bonds, real estate, the banks, the insurance companies, they’re all in the way. They’re all in the crosshairs of spiking interest rates. So, this is why it’s so dangerous. But if you realize you’re so far down the road in indebtedness, north of 200 trillion in an environment where we’ve offshored all our manufacturing, the only way to bring it back is to I think is to is to reset the system one way or the other. You can inflate, you can default. Richard Russell always said that, or you can find a villain. And how do you reset the system? Well, it starts with some sort of backing to gold. Well, could it be that all of that gold is brought back here for a new monetary system?

Now this is far off, but what I’m saying is this is far far far beyond what we are being told because the things that are happening, even his actions when they understand Triffin’s dilemma, the fact that they’re calling all of this unfair—is it really unfair when we are the world reserve currency and have lived this exorbitant lifestyle because of the ability to continue to print money? Right, think about it from the context of the the Saudis: Would you want to sell your oil to a country who during co could print unlimited money and then buy treasuries with it to suppress interest rates? A and we expect them then to sell us their oil for those dollars we create and then take the excess and put it in treasuries which we can buy with created uh money and and watch all of those bonds in circulation get clobbered. So the whole thing is, you know, the whole thing is because it’s a system based on trust, we’ve squandered the trust—the pool boy analogy. So how do we come back from that? Maybe the realization by Besson and and and Trump’s administration is there is no easy way out of this. We have to reset the system and and if we do it this way and we push with tariffs that are actually sanctions masquerading as tariffs. You know, there’s a huge news going on with the BRICS that that people aren’t talking about that to me could be the catalyst of all of this.

All I’m simply saying to you is that if we haven’t learned to question everything over the last four years, we learn nothing. And I think we need to question everything. And I voted for Trump and I would vote for him again and I thank God he’s here. But his actions are having consequences that we don’t fully understand yet. And maybe really that’s what they’re trying to do because there is no easy way to bring manufacturing back to this country cuz we we sent it over there because it was much cheaper and greater access to stuff to bring it back. You’re talking empty shelves and much higher prices and a transition period that would really stink. So, I guess we’ll have to see, Adam, how it all plays out, but I don’t think it’s what the talking heads are telling us.

Okay. So, there are a couple things I want to I want to pull out in there. I guess one, you said there’s really big news on the BRICS front. I’m not sure if I caught what that was. What what what is catching your attention there right now?

So, you know what what alerted me to the BRICS to begin with before I even got there was understanding the Beltroad initiative. And I kind of have to lay a tiny little framework to really make this stick. Um, and I started digging into the belt road in 2019 and started doing interview or podcasts on it. And that’s the largest infrastructure project in human history. It’s China’s way of of re rekindling the Silk Road, parts of Asia, Africa, Asia, Africa, parts of Europe, and parts of South America. And it’s the largest infrastructure project ever in human history. It’s it’s roads and bridges and maritime channels um and and and um connecting all of this for commerce, but they come into these underdeveloped nations, they being China, and and they build oil refineries and gold and silver mines and and all of the roads and bridges to bring it to market and these underdeveloped um resourcerich countries are then able to industrialize themselves and enrich themselves. And that’s the that’s the really what it is about. Now, it’s not perfect, but it’s really it’s it’s moving in the right direction, and it’s very ambitious to say the least. It’s it’s 75% of human population, 50% of global GDP.

As I start moving forward over the last several years and looking at the BRICS, I I learned of two organizations and and both of them are now mind you, the belt road, you’re talking huge swath of human population. They’re not all in they’re not in the BRICS but many they’re closely aligned with the BRICS and with China for sure. Then I learned of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the SCO, which is somewhere in neighborhood of 30% of global GDP in and of themselves, the largest regional financial and military organization in the world. Um and the and the Eurasian economic union. Now the president of Barus has been saying these two organizations need to meld into the BRICS. um they’re all again closely very closely aligned and there are some BRICS members in both institutions, namely uh Russia, China, Iran and there are others but the bottom line is is that you put these together, the Shanghai cooperation, the Eurasian economic human union, the belt road and the BRICS and you have 90% of human population.

Now about two weeks ago there was a a development that took place; it’s called the Chang my initiative. In essence, what it is is you have a bunch of countries that used to be um adversaries that are coming together to push back against uh the the um western hegemony and and and the um the sanctions and the tariffs and all this stuff. And it was it’s China, it’s um uh uh South Korea and Japan and a bunch of these Asian nations in Southeast Asia. And they are uniting together. But here’s where it gets really, really, really interesting. And let me pull up see if I can find it. I don’t know if I can or not. Well, I guess it doesn’t matter. I’ll just explain it anyway. So what happens is about two weeks ago they they came out with the renimi crossber payment system and the renimi crossber payment system is Project Mbridge. They took it over um China did and they they announced that they had integrated 10 Asian nations and five middle eastern nations into the renimi system crossber payment system. Again the countries in Southeast Asia and um um uh Middle East. So they’ve integrated them and this payment system settles not in the 3 to 5 days that Swift does but in 7 seconds and it the Swift system and the dollar is not compatible with this bridge network. And you remember Saudi Arabia was a full participant in Project Mbridge before the the rug got pulled by the BIS. But anyways, so you have this system that is free from swift interference that settles in 7 seconds and you have all of these countries that represent 38% of global GDP. Why did I mention that other stuff? Get to it in a moment about the other countries the than the other groups.

So you have a a a growing BRICS community where the 44th country to apply it is Vietnam. And so you have 44 countries that have applied. Vietnam being the last. Indonesia has already been accepted as a full member of BRICS. They have the largest nickel deposit in the world. So all of these things are relevant and big. But let’s go back to the payment system. So you’ve just connected China with all of these nations. And then you get what’s happening in July, the BRICS meeting, and the finance minister of Russia comes out and says something massive. And this is what isn’t being talked about because a lot of people will poo poo the BRICS and say they’re not big enough and they don’t have enough pricing power and the dollar is the and the bond market are the biggest in the world and blah blah blah. Russian finance minister Lavough just came out and said that this technology is priority number one for the BRICS meeting in July that the integration of a new settlement system for BRICS nations. And he said, and I quote, that this new payment system will be open to non-BRICS nations as well.

Now, let’s put it in context to the Belt Road and the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and the Eurasian Economic Unit and the 38% of the Asian nations and the um Middle Eastern nations that make up 38% of global GDP as it is. If you put all of these countries together, which would then be three of the four largest nuclear arsenals on the planet, the majority of all of the commodity production from soft to hard to precious, the majority of all the refining of rare earths, the majority of all of the manufacturing capability on the planet. You put it all together and all of these nations will have access to this new crossber payment system which is operational and will be extended to those countries which are all united and closely aligned with Chinese market, you now have the ability to turn flip the switch very quickly. And every one of these countries will have the ability to trade in local central bank digital currencies and settle in gold. And the last piece of the puzzle is the Shanghai Metals Exchange saying we’re going to internationalize our endeavor and start building exchanges in other countries starting in Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia. So you settle imbalances in gold. Well, the vaults will be all around the network and they can settle directly in the Shanghai gold market with bars right then and there.

So, what I’m saying is that all of these this placating of of tariffs and meeting with President Trump and saying, “Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That’s great. You’re the king.” And then that’s great, but behind the scenes, they’re preparing for plan B. They are preparing for a world where the dollar and the Treasury are not the preeminent and dominant settlement and reserve system. And you can see it if you look closely enough, but there’s so many naysayers that they’re the inability to see that the infrastructure is expanding. The very fact that they’re allowing non-BRICS members to do this might be the biggest news that we’ve ever seen regarding the BRICS. No one’s talking about it. We’ll see if I’m right. I feel that I am. For Lavough to say we’re opening it to non-BRICS members, that doesn’t mean the United States. That means I think all of these countries that are closely aligned with the BRICS in terms of their what they’re doing and and and and trading permits within the BRICS uh zone I think is something that could expand massively the dollarization as as the months uh continue.

Okay. Well, that’s really interesting and I didn’t know a lot about that beforehand. So, it’s super useful to hear you kind of put all that together. Um, and look, um, that may very well be what’s going on and where things are headed. Um, let me ask you this, Andy. Um, there’s a bit of a skeptic in me that says, “Look, uh, because this is kind of like a everybody in the world against America story, or at least everybody against around the world against team America, America and its core allies, right?” So you need an awful lot of collective action uh to have this thing go right, especially if you know gold’s being the gold underlying this is vaulted across all these different countries and whatnot. Um so you know a lot of these countries are in some cases historic enemies or at least haven’t had great you know uh relations with each other. There’s kind of an awful lot that feels like it has to go right for this this new system to truly ice out the US in the way that that some folks listening to you think it it could. Um, and look, I I I’m not saying it’s not going to happen. I’m just saying, you know, my brain thinks, “Ah, there’s a lot that’s got to go right there.”

There is there is a lot and and that’s why it’s not a common currency. But, you know, they they had talked about the unit settlement currency, which is a common settlement currency. It just allows these countries to trade over this network using their own central bank digital currencies and settle in gold. It allows them them to build their own economies from within rather than first have to convert to a dollar. Um certainly you can see Trump wants a lower dollar which would make trade a lot easier, right? But I don’t think that’s you know again who who’s going to finance our indebtedness? That’s the biggest problem and a lower dollar only makes it that much more difficult.

So, let let me make one other sort of skeptical point and then I’ll tie it together. Um, the other skeptical point is would America sit by and really let this happen? Um, or you know, Trump, I don’t know when he said it, but it was what, three months ago or whatever? I think it was before he actually assumed office, but didn’t he put out that that message that like if any of you BRICS, you know, continue working on a competing currency, you know, you’re going to immediately get slapped with, you know, ridiculous tariffs or whatnot. So, um, whether he did that or not, it would do that or not, it does to me suggest the US would not idally sit back and let this happen. And I got to imagine some of these negotiations that are going on around tariffs and trade are kind of involving commitments of like, “All right, you’re not going to go and participate in some sort of competing system for us, right?” And look, I’m speculating here. I don’t know. It just would make a lot of sense to me if if America decided to be that heavy-handed. That would be very consistent with kind of how we conduct world trade.

But here’s where I’m going with this, which is even though I think there are some reasons to be skeptical. Um, I think you think, “Hey, look, um, doesn’t mean these countries aren’t going to pursue it, doesn’t even necessarily mean the US might not try to, you know, play hard ball with them to get them to stop doing it. But I imagine even if that goes on from both sides, that just makes people more nervous about what’s going to happen in the future. And they’re going to look for some sort of way to protect their wealth and transact in something they can trust more.” So, I kind of think almost no matter what happens, it’s almost like a gold friendly outcome in every scenario. Do you feel similarly or am I just crazier?

No, I I think it’s it’s obvious and and again, it boils down to lack of trust and and and I I you know, you you come in and you impose those tariffs on the countries that were traditionally being buying our our treasuries. um you have to wonder is that something they’re going to ever want to do again. So it’s it’s a problem on one hand what you say is very logical and and makes sense but on the other hand it only exacerbates or or it only you know underscores the reason these countries want to move away from settling and reserving in our assets to begin with. And so yeah, I mean it’s it’s in either scenario it it I think at least in terms of dollars would represent a very bullish case for for gold. And maybe that’s why you’re seeing the biggest imports ever into the history in the history of the COMEX coming in right now that they understand that one way or the other gold has to be part of a new system and this is the biggest money in the world that’s doing it. I guess we’ll see.

Okay. And and so on on your new system part. I’m going to start talking quickly here because we don’t have too much time left and there’s a few other things I want to get to especially silver and I want to try to take one or two questions from the audience if we have time to shoehorn it in. Um but when when you think about okay sort of a new system right and you’ve you’ve talked about some some hints that Bessant and Trump have have given that that might be something that’s in their thinking here. Um, is this going to be something that is going to be more of a progression, right? Like, you know, maybe we do announce Judy Shelton’s gold back bonds, right? So, that’s it’s a toe in the water, right? It’s a step towards there. Or do you see this more as something like Americans will just wake up one morning and super surprise the old dollar doesn’t exist anymore? This is the new currency regime and you know is do do you have a a guesstimate which path we’re more likely to take?

You could argue it’s happening right now. Your people might not feel that way, but the majority of the public will because there’s very little, you know, pretty much the only thing that the the um media does is is ferment divisiveness and and not talk about any of this stuff. And um but when you see month over month over month over month of of massive imports in the US becoming a net importer of gold, maybe that is what we’re seeing. uh when you see the world, you know, 40 central banks across the globe repatriate their gold from the Bank of England and the New York Fed, which were typically the places that they kept it for access to the COMEX and the LBMA. Um, when you see the LBMA go from T+1 to T plus 8 weeks because evidently the Bank of England has a shortage of trucks and manpower to move metal around. When you see all of these things happening, um, you know, the Japanese bond market blowing up, uh, there are so many points that are pointing towards things coming to an end. um that that maybe this is a the slow integration or the slow remonetization of gold into the system or the slow reset happening right right in front of us. So you look at the actions I mean everything is upside down and you look at the actions of what of what the Trump administration is doing and you could make the argument that this is happening right now. If it if if I were looking at it, I would say it was to be expected and and we watched it happen in real time. Most people will be completely caught off guard by it, 100%.

Right. Okay. Let me ask you a couple sort of conspiracy-esque questions. Um maybe not fully conspiracy-esque, but um one, how how worried do we need to be about the LBMA running dry if there’s so much demand to pull physical out of it?

Yeah, I mean that that really I guess you could say is is the issue. Um they they’re being bled dry. I mean you look at it in terms of silver as an example. They have um they have a a float of 300 million ounces. Um that’s in silver. That’s the amount of silver that isn’t encumbered. It’s even a little bit less than that. Of the 800 million they hold, 500 supposedly belongs to SLV um and other ETFs, but the 300 million float, they claim to trade 290 million a day in terms of paper. Uh but they have said that those numbers are 10 times understated as the they only post the final settlement numbers. So if that is the case, you’re talking trading 2.9 billion ounces of silver per day, unallocated, rehypothecated, 10 times the float, three and a half times annual global mine supply. And in gold, it’s about two two and a half times annual global mine supply, the amount of metal they have versus the paper, these unallocated, pulled, if you will, contracts. And what differentiates and I mean look the there was just a the LBMA or the the the um EU uh the the central bank of the of of Europe just came out. Where did I put that? I just read it. Oh, here. Listen to this. The ECB warns gold could undermine the region’s financial system. The gold market may pose a threat to the financial stability of the Euro zone, especially in the context of geopolitical tensions. ECB experts identified risk factors, and here’s what they’re getting at, including high demand for physical gold. So, give me the gold. I want it. Y uh the dominance of large traders, i.e. commercial banks, and insufficient transparency of transactions. So in essence,

What you have are these banks that are trading massive amounts of nontransparent naked short positions. And what's different is I want the gold. No more I trust the paper. Give it to me. That's what's very different.

What remember what what Vince Lansancy and Luke Goman were saying? It's the government saying I don't care. Give me the gold. I don't care that it's short. I don't care that this is an existential threat. Give it to me. But that's the attitude right now by the BRICS nations, by Russia, by Saudi Arabia, by India, by China. Give me the gold.

And and so much so that China, you know, the second largest producer of gold and silver in the world is flying all around South America buying doré and concentrate. So when you look at a system that is massively leveraged like this, massively rehypothecated, it it it does it it presents what ultimately could be um an existential threat to some of these some of these these banks who are who are as as silly as a mud wall trying to be um you know naked short to this degree.

So yes, that is what in essence when your exchange is T plus one day and it goes to T plus 8 weeks and they they cite a shortage of trucks. Well, that is a default more or less or at least an attempt to scurry and and lie about why you can't deliver. Imagine if you had a company that needed gold and silver to produce something and and you expect it in three days, moving in your way. Sorry, Adam, you're looking at eight weeks because we don't have enough in the way of manpower and trucks. So this is almost a default, not outright, but you see more and more delivery, and that's what happens that you know these traders these these central banks and sovereign wealth funds will smell blood in the water and they'll stand for delivery, and that's when the whole thing blows up. It's like the Bernie Madoff scheme. It was a great scheme until people said we need our money back, and then it quickly unraveled.

All right. So um I am changing the title of this video in real time as we're talking here right now. You tell me if this is accurate, Andy. Are you saying that you feel fairly confident there's a global run on physical gold starting right now? 100%. There's no question that that's the difference. If you know that people say it's different this time, the difference this time unequivocally is that no one ever stood for delivery in these markets. They used it as a as a as a tool to speculate and to offset risk. And then it became a casino. And then look when the BRICS developed their grain exchange a year ago, the guy who was behind it said, look, we produce and consume more grain than the folks do in the west, but we can't control the price; it's done on COMEX, but that will change with the development of the BRICS grain exchange. Do you not think that these folks understand what we're doing with commodities? Gibson's paradox, the inverse relationship between real interest rates and the price of gold. We've held the price down forever. It's the canary in the minehaft, and so they understand it. Um, Eric Young, the the gorilla on X, he says, "The Chinese are involved in holding back the silver price because they want to accumulate every ounce on the planet and play the long game. Hold on tight, the price will go up." All manipulations end badly. And I think they realize the Achilles heel of this entire system is is the these unallocated very large short positions. And how do you win that game if you have enough money to challenge it? Because these commercial banks have unlimited money. Well, so do sovereign wealth funds, and they can stand for delivery. That's where the the game is changing. And these record deliveries on COMEX and the LBMA cite a a distrust in the system, a massive distrust that they want the real thing over the paper future promises, and that's where things change and then you see a shift to Shanghai, to Dubai, to the BRICS Metals exchange which is in development, to Moscow, to the countries who produce it, accumulate it, respect it, and will use it to back a new settlement system. I do believe that, and I do believe that's what Trump's administration said to President Trump, "This is happening. You need to frontrunner this. Get this stuff back. We will be behind the the eight ball if we don't." There's no other way to explain why you're seeing such insanely large outlier large deliveries month over month into COMEX. And um it's been the paper price, the suppression of it that's allowed accumulation for years. And and no one's ever stood for delivery. They are now. And that's when the game really begins to change.

Okay. Um and Andy, I'm I'm sorry. I'm going to ask if we can go a few minutes over today just to get knock off these uh Sure. these other points. Um just real quick, this is my other conspiracy question. Um what do you think what do you think is more likely, what you just suggested, which is America is saying, "Look, we're seeing this trend happen. We want to be on the winning side of it. Get the gold in now." Uh you know, nationally buying it as a sovereign nation. um and and therefore increasing our gold stores, right? Um or is this hey, we we got to move we feel we need to move to this more gold um supported system going forward. We've been telling the world forever that we have whatever it is 8,000 tons of gold in Fort Knox, but we've never let it get audited. Maybe we don't actually have it all. And and what we're trying to do now is just get the gold in there so by the time we do do an audit, voila, we have what we said we had.

Well, it would be I mean it would be easily verifiable if that were the case simply because the bars that we would be importing uh would have new serial numbers. Well, not only that, they would be 400 ounce bar or kilo bar. They're not going to be 100 ounce COMEX bars. So, they would have to be then be melted down into 100 oz COMEX bars with new serial numbers. I mean, I guess it's it's it's a possibility. A lot of people say that and we probably don't have all the gold that we say we do. And it's not just in Fort Knox. It's it's the New York Fed, the West Point Mint, and the Denver Mint. And that's why Judy Shelton said there's always been push back on auditing it, which is a bunch of nonsense that well, it's just too logistically challenging and too expensive. Um, it could be, I guess, that could be part of it, but but more along the lines of um, you know, whether that be the case or not, the fact that we need it is important. And you know, all nations are lying about their gold holdings. If you understand that the US gold holdings haven't been audited since '53 and if we believe China only has 2,500 metric tonnes, I have a bridge to sell you. They've been mining 3 to 500 metric tonnes for the last 25 years every year using our trade imbalance to do so. Alistair Macleod, who might be one of the smartest guys I know, said two years ago he thought they had 38,000 metric tonnes, 20 by the state and 18 by the people. Um those numbers would be much larger now. So yeah, I I think that's a possibility. But even still, I think why would be the question. Not just why, even bring up auditing it if if not and why Trump says he who has the gold makes the rules. They are hedging towards some I think um something that is gold centric to a monetary system to establish or reestablish trust.

Okay. Um let me ask you this. We we do I'm am seeing not many but a couple of skeptics there in the uh in the live chat. Um and just to be super clear um I just want to clarify one thing. So you know Andy we're going to have you on monthly going forward. Miles Franklin is the endorsed precious metals solution um by Thoughtful Money for you because we have so many folks that reach out to me every week saying hey tell me more about gold. I want to own it. How do I own it? All that type of stuff. So, I want to connect them with a good uh provider and and I think we did a good job maybe the last time you were on really diving deep into that and you showing your level of your high degree of integrity there. Um Andy, um but let me ask you this. Uh let's say for let's put aside the moment for a moment the BRICS, you know, potentially having a new payment and currency system. uh let's let's put aside um uh America moving to some sort of gold-based system. Would you still feel that that there were the direction of gold would be higher? I mean are there still just enough reasons in terms of how nations including and especially the US are running themselves right now for people to feel that I'm concerned about the future purchasing power of fiat currency. I'm concerned about holding long-term debt that the pressure would manifest in a higher gold price anyways.

Yeah. I Well, I mean, look, the central banks are the big drivers of it right now more than anything. The central banks are the ones that are buying it and and to me it underscores they're the most well-informed traders in the world. They're buying it and the American public isn't. I mean, um certainly not to a degree. I was just with Rick Rule the other day and he says look one half of 1%. He's been saying that for a while from Joe and Jane six-pack to the Harvard endowment fund. He he says gold and gold related equities. So it's certainly not being driven by the retail. It's being driven by the people above the retail. Um and look to me I I've never told people to buy gold to get wealthy. To me it is wealth. I've been very consistent on that my whole career. Um, it's wealth that has outlived and out endured everything the world's ever thrown at it. It's was mentioned 400 times or more in the Bible 6,000 years ago. So to me, it's wealth and I've always accumulated it for that reason. Investments are other things altogether. But what is very to me illuminating more than anything else and people can can take whatever they'd like from this. To me, the the central banks are the most well-funded and well-informed traders in the world, and they've been buying it voraciously now for going on several years. And where it really starts to get interesting is the removal from the exchanges and the repatriation from the Bank of England and the New York Federal Reserve. When central banks start doing that and and are buying it at levels that no one's ever seen before, people should take notice. And when they're buying it, you should take notice. And then when they start shipping it home, you should really even more. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Um All right. So, I'm gonna get to silver, folks. I promise. Just one last question. We don't have to talk about it for for long, Andy. Um but Bitcoin uh has, you know, it it cracked 100,000 uh I think end of last year. Um it then went through a price correction earlier this year. uh it has kind of regained its all-time highs and actually just as we've been talking Andy, it spiked to a new all-time high of 109,000. I think it's slightly off that at the moment here. Um I guess I just want to ask you, do you have any thoughts on that relative to everything you've been talking about? Is the are we seeing, you know, another asset respond to these same uh dynamics that you've been talking about today or is this completely separate?

Yeah, I I think it is. I mean, certainly a weaker dollar, you would expect to see Bitcoin do very well. Look, I I think I'm not a Bitcoin basher. I think the um the two camps would be much stronger together. You take profit off the table making in Bitcoin and put it into gold, you have a stronger portfolio and leave your your you know, your your principle there to appreciate. But they they would exhibit much of the same in terms of dynamics: a dollar that's losing ground. Um a replacement in terms of savings uh over treasuries. Um and bond markets in trouble. Um I think that you know people in Japan are looking at at Bitcoin and gold and saying that this is getting out of control that that Japanese are going to have to implement yield curve control again and go right back instead of normalizing. And and and maybe that's why Bitcoin and gold are are are performing. I think they they're very parallel in in thought process until you get to motivation. Typically the crypto guy wants or girl wants to make a profit. Those who are buying gold are retaining profit. That's why they're made for each other in terms of alignment. But no, I'm not surprised by it at all. Um I don't trust Bitcoin the way that I do gold, but I would be foolish, I think, to not own a little bit of it. I do. Um, but I'm certainly doing it only because I don't want to look back at the end of my career and say, "I was immersed in this stuff. How did I miss it?" Um, but I would think it has very many of the same rationale at least for its growth that we see in gold.

Okay. Thanks. All right. Now, we're going to go to the silver folks. Just real quick, I want to clarify one last thing here. So, this isn't this is part of the comments that are going in the chat right now. Massan says, "Uh, Andy is a sponsor. Just like Lance, I don't think this is the way the channel should evolve. It loses its well-deserved independency. Don't turn it into an infomercial." Again, folks, I just want to tackle this straight on. Um, this is this is not an infomercial. Um, what this is is, uh, so the reason I created this channel was to help people get better informed so they could make better financial decisions, right? And very early on, what I heard people say is, "Uh, this is making me smarter. It's great. Um, but I don't feel like I'm best suited to be the one to implement what I'm learning from these experts and create that playbook on my own and manage it going forward. I've got other priorities, right? I got my main job. I got my family. Whatever. I I well while I I I want to go down this wealth building road. I don't have a lot of personal experience on it and I don't want to be figuring it out along the way and making all the rookie mistakes. And that's where I said, "Okay, great. Well, let's bring on some financial advisers, right? They'll they'll come on the program every week. We'll let you crawl up in their brain and see what they're thinking about, what's happening in the markets, and you know, they'll share the trades they're making. If you're a long-term viewer of this channel, you see I've done that week after week. And the point there is for them to serve as a model, right? For them to show you what what I consider a good financial adviser to look like. And I would just say, look, if you don't feel comfortable operating on your own, then find a good financial adviser that should be at least as good as these guys. If you find someone better, fantastic, right? And uh you're able to have free consultations with these firms um so that you can actually, you know, not just hear what they say on on the video, but you can actually get their like personalized bespoke uh advice on your personal situation, right? Andy is the same thing on precious metals. I have since I started this channel, I was getting lots and lots of outreach from viewers saying, "Hey, I want to hear more about precious metals. I'm new to this space. I want to learn how to start buying in. Where do I buy precious metals from? So, what we've agreed to do is to have a monthly precious metals dedicated discussion. That's what we're doing today. We're just going to talk about all things that are related to precious metals, right? Um feedback from that's been very good so far. So, we're going to continue doing that going forward. And similarly, people who say, "Look, I I want some help figuring out what should I buy, how should I buy it, what form should I hold it in, where's a reputable place to do business." Andy's the same thing. You reach out to him, you have a conversation, he and his team will help you. They guide you somewhere else, great. Uh, awesome. Go do it on your own or do it from wherever they direct you. Or if they can help you personally, great. Totally up to you. But that's the model here at Thoughtful Money. I am not selling out this channel as an infomercial. I am trying to deliver on the content that you want to hear and when relevant, connect you with resources that can help you out.

All right. Sorry for that, Andy, but I just thought it was super I guess I would just simply say one thing, Adam. You know, those comments, I I'm I'm used to them. You know, I mean, I guess I would just simply ask people to reflect on the fact of running and owning a business when no one ever said that to me in 1989 when we were in a one room closet size office struggling before the internet and all the years that I've done over 12 billion in sales without a customer complaint. I'm the American dream. I am. I've outworked people. No one ever gave me anything. and to build a a good business and try to do the right thing at the same time shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive. Yeah, I want to make money and yes, I want to build a business and my son works through me and I want to leave it to to my family and third generation and that's that that comes with pride and hard work and effort. I spend three hours a day, seven days a week reading and researching and digging so I don't look like a fool in front of someone smart like you. Um, so yeah, I you know, I'm not a shill. I'm not I'm not talking my book. I I I've done enough business where I could not do that ever again. I I do it because I care and I try to run a good business, try to be a good role model for my kids and do the right thing. And anyone who's owned a business who who who works really hard to to have something to be proud of should would understand that. And the cynicism that people have of thinking you can't have a business and do the right thing at the same time. It's sad because I think you can. That's just my two cents on it.

Yeah. Well, I like to hope I am and you are too and I hopefully a lot of our viewers do as well. So, um, no, it's all good, Andy, and luckily as I I kicked off this video with well-deserved kudos for you. So, you're doing a great job. And I do also just want to be clear, too. Massan has been a big supporter and promoter of this channel in the past. So, he I'm I'm not attacking him either. He's and everyone's inside of their own opinion, but I just I didn't want this idea to to go um, you know, unclarified. So, hopefully I've done that.

All right. So, wrapping up here, uh, Andy, silver, um, you at the beginning I talked about that silver just increasingly is feeling like it is building pressure here. Uh, it keeps getting whacked down, but keeps coming back up to the 33 range. Uh, looking like it finally wants to vault into new territory. Um, at least new territory for the past couple years, you know, break out into a new price channel. Um, am I just letting my emotions guide that that feeling or are you seeing signs of of the same?

100% we're seeing signs of the same. Um when you talk about silver, the May contract, which is an active delivery month, um it's at all-time highs. We've delivered somewhere in the neighborhood of 14,000 contracts. That's an all-time high. So again, um to me, silver, especially when you look at the cup and handle formation, it's very similar to that of gold. Gold's broken out. Silver's right at it. In fact, it just broke above this this tren this um falling wedge trend line, which is very bullish. I would expect to see it go much higher. Um to me, it's when you the term asymmetrical, meaning low downside, high upside, I don't know that there's a an asset more valuable on the planet. Again, what Eric Young said, Chinese are trying to buy every ounce on the planet. Stay patient. They're flying all around. Sean Kungkun, head of Dolly Bard, said Andy they're flying all around Latin America, in particular Peru, and buying up everything doré and concentrate, sending it back and refining it, paying double what the West will, but this is the second largest producer of silver in the world. India has bought somewhere north of 800 million ounces in the last four or five years. Russia is now adding it to their strategic stockpile. The deliveries on both COMEX and LBMA are off the chart. And the point is, why isn't the price rising? Because they've been using the suppression on the COMEX market and and the unallocated positions in London to beat us at our own game and to stand up, but you're saying they're using the much larger paper market to to push down the price of the physical and stand for delivery.

Yes. And and it's very obvious and you can see that. How else do you have a situation in London where they're trading 10 times the float? Three and a half times annual global mines play every day. Every single day. That's all right. We like having a fan base there. Don't worry about it. I'm I'm sorry. It happens every single time. My my little puppy she screams. She doesn't just bark. She screams. So, you know, I'm building a new studio and I have some really big announcements to make um very soon. Uh, I'm not going to say what it is, but one of the people in there mentioned it. Um, what that announcement is. I'm going to leave it at that. But, uh, big announcements in the studio. So, and they don't allow dogs at the this building. So, uh, this will be the one of the last times that the dog barks in one of my videos. I apologize.

No, it's all right. It's great. Um, okay. Well, look, let me, um, uh, let me ask one thing about Silver. Um, so you mentioned India and I'm just curious. So you know the Indian economy is on fire right now right and Indians are massive buyers of precious metals um you know they're known for buying gold I have read you would know better than I that they're increasingly turning to silver just because gold's getting so pricey on a per ounce basis um but as that country starts to gentrify right as as it as the standard of living starts to rise there because of the economic growth behind it culturally do you expect the the interest in precious metals to still continue and that India just acts like a greater and greater sponge of of the world's physical

1000%. Because it's in their blood, it's in their culture. They own gold and silver like we we uh speak of baseball and apple pie. I mean that that's that's who they are. Um and I think that's the most important thing to take away. So they've been doing it, you know, with whatever means they have a lot of it in a black market because of of import uh um duties and whatnot. But the more wealthy they become 100% they'll just continue to accumulate to to them that is wealth. To a large portion of the world gold and silver represent wealth and I think people need to not look at it as an investment. You don't buy gold to become or silver to become wealthy. you know, silver offers that potential. I do believe that. Um, you know, I I have a take on silver that and and you know, say what you want about it, but I believe the military-industrial complex has been shorting silver for years. They need it in high-tech weaponry. They used to be quoted in the supply demand numbers and the military is gone. And I gave a speech in at Vancouver Resource Investment Conference where I said there's 500 ounces of silver in a cruise missile. A guy comes up to me two three years ago and he says, "I work for the Department of Defense." Almost fell over. And he says, "I helped design the Tomahawk and I know there's silver in it. I'll get back to you." You never hear from him again. I see him the next year. Two years ago, he says, "I'll be damned." There's between 13 and 15 kilos in a typical cruise

missile, Tomahawk, or Patriot. He says, "Um, you were right." And then I've gotten to know him, and he—it's it's in all sorts of um high-tech aerospace and weaponry. And so who owns all the the um military contractors? Well, that's largely BlackRock. Who's the custodian of SLV? Well, that's BlackRock and JP Morgan, and also GLD.

And so what happens is they step on the price of silver. Don't believe me? There's eight commercial banks that hold the largest concentrated short position of any commodity ever traded in the history of the ComX market. Guess what it's in? Yeah, it's in silver. And then you see the the trading—three and a half times annual global mine supply, 10 times the float in London on silver by commercial banks. They hold the paper price down. They build high-tech weapons. They take it out of the supply-demand numbers, even though we're running structural deficits. They pull it out, but they need it to make the weapons to fund wars all around the world. Then places like the Ukraine get blown up. And who gets the reconstruction contracts? Oh, that's right. It's BlackRock.

So, when you talk about conspiracy and reality, sure, fine line, but why would eight banks from the West have the largest concentrated short position in this stupid, archaic relic that no one needs, that being silver? Why would the silver price—when it's coming out of the ground at a 7:1 ratio—Ask Keith Newmire. He'll tell you that 7 to 1 meaning 7 ounces of gold for every 1 oz of silver. It's now priced at roughly 100 to 1, coming out of the ground at 7 to 1. Why would these eight Western banks hold these large concentrated short positions, which is as dumb as a mud wall in this environment? Why would they do that? Well, because the military-industrial complex needs it to make cheap weapons. And that's my belief, and I will take that to the grave with me.

And and the only way that that gets beaten is by the rest of the world saying, "Aha, like China, we see what you're doing. You're suppressing the price to accumulate it for whatever the reason, but guess what? We're just as rich as you are, and we're going to do the same thing. In fact, we're going to pile on the short side with you, and we're going to stand for delivery, and at some point the rubber will meet the road," and that is kind of—you could argue a little microcosm of what you saw yesterday in the platinum market where—bang—up 7%. It's a short squeeze, so it doesn't mean it will continue, but that is a microcosm of what you will expect whenever you manipulate markets to this degree. They always end badly. Manipulation always ends badly. You can only manipulate a market for an extended period of time by pushing it in the direction it's going. And forever, no one wanted these commodities and certainly wouldn't stand for delivery. They wanted our stocks, our bonds, our real estate because we had trust. We don't have trust anymore.

Now, as Zultan Posar says, we're moving to Bretton Woods 3, a system about transparency and commodities—Allah, blockchain, and commodities. And they're going to rush to get the commodities. But instead of just throwing the kitchen sink at it, they have to do it slowly and methodically, or they cut off their nose to spite their face. Let it be volatile. Let it be volatile. Let it go up and then go way down, and everyone turns away and walks the other way, and then they stand for delivery, and they keep buying, and they let it go up, and then they smash it, and they stand for delivery. And this has been going on. It's accelerating. So yeah, I I just I think we haven't seen anything yet. And and silver is to me the most asymmetrical investment on the planet: low downside, high upside, and it—if it were really set free, if you just took the 150-year price average of—call it 45 to 1 with gold at 3315 divided by 45 right now—um, it should be um minimum of 73 bucks. That's what 150 years worth of average price. You take that same 3315 and divide it by 7, you're at 473. Now, if you told me gold was—silver was at 473 tomorrow, I'd say, "Oh, that kind of makes sense. That's a 7:1 ratio between its geological footprint right now. It was 16 to 1, which was its geological footprint for 5,000 years." So, when we say this stuff, yeah, I mean, could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Don't know.

I remember being in the industry when the Dow Jones was 2100 in 1989, and they said—uh, the first conference I went to, the guy said it's going to go to 10,000. and they laughed him off the stage. We here we are at 40,000. So the the point of it is that markets go higher than people think possible, and when you manipulate it like interest rates were manipulated, they may go higher than people think, and asset prices may fall lower in the face of rising interest rates because of that manipulation. The same thing is true here with silver and gold. You hold it back for that long in the face of uh massive global demand in a in a in an asset that is diminishing and depleting in nature. I did an interview with Rick Rule. He said 18%—just 18%—of of the silver that was mined last year or came to market last year came from primary silver miners. The rest was byproduct and recycling. It's disappearing. So, yeah, I think silver is is definitely a play worth holding, but it's more speculative ultimately in terms of its its performance.

Okay, couple rapid-fire questions and then we'll we'll end here. Um, so, uh, you kind of answered Neil's question already, but but not quite because I think you took it to where you think it could go long term, right? Somewhere between that 75 to 400 ounce range. Um, if if silver were to break 35 bucks an ounce here, right? um forcibly. Um where do you think it would go, you know, near-term? Like let's say it were to do that tomorrow, where would you expect it to be, you know, end of 2025? You know, I mean, there's no resistance above that. It could—the sky's the limit. Okay. So, at least at least it wouldn't surprise you to see it back to the old all-time nominal high of 50 bucks or 49 bucks, whatever it was. I mean, it would surprise me only because I feel like the dog that was beaten and and you get at the pound, and every time you raise your hand, it goes like this. Well, like I'm the little boy who cried wolf. Ultimately, it's going to go higher. I do believe it. But it's been beaten down for so long. That's what's so unusual about gold.

If I had to make a statement, I would say that the cartel—if whatever you want to call them—look, this is not a free market. It has not been—it has been suppressed. I don't care what any of the naysayers say. JP Morgan paid a $920 million fine—who happens to be the custodian of SLV along with BlackRock—for manipulating the market. But um gold has broken free, I think, for the ability for the West to effectively manage it. Silver quite yet hasn't. But when it does, and the physical demand takes over, or there is a massive rush for delivery on this rehypothecated system, the sky is the limit. Uh, it could go higher than people think possible. But it's one of those deals that it won't happen until it does happen. And it won't be easy. When it does happen, you know, to me, it will be like, well, geez, it's about time. But for most people, they'll be completely caught off guard by that. And the biggest problem will be finding product because it will get scooped up. There's just such a small interest in physical metal on the retail side of things that what is left will be easily bought up by a couple very, very large investors. A guy like Eric Sprott could come in and and Rick Rule and Bill Gates, they'd buy up the whole industry in an afternoon, right? So, so spot price could shoot up, premium on top of that will shoot up, and then you might not even be able to find the supply—the ounce. Yeah, because you would think if in an environment like that, do the sovereign mints want to sell their stuff to the United States, Australia, and South Africa and UK, or do they start to prioritize it for their own people or for their own government? So, you have the US mint and a couple of refiners. I mean, who knows what the other sovereign mints decide to do in that environment? Who knows? But um yeah, I would think that ultimately right now product is plentiful, but ultimately it will, I think, define the market. Um, people will have to settle for ETFs and stuff because the physical market is just so small in comparison to the amount of money that's been created and the amount of money that's out there, you know. So, a few billion dollars, there'd be nothing left in the United States until new shipments come in, most of which come from outside the country.

Okay. So, uh, this person asked a question I was going to ask you. You've already mostly answered it, right? Which is if you have such a massive cartel or really collection of cartels conspiring to keep uh silver price low. Um, why would you ever want to bet against those massive players? Because those are Western cartels fighting against Eastern and South—the East and the South, right? And so what I took from you is this is almost kind of like when Nixon had to slam the gold window on the dollar, which is just as other nations, especially France, said, "Hey, you know, um we know the true value of the dollar um is is is going to be a lot less given the fact that you're doing all this spending. You can't—you don't have enough gold to back it. So, we're going to take our gold now, right?" and that ended the system. You're saying a similar thing here, which is they're keeping the price low. China says, "Great, I'm just going to come in and hoover it all up, and eventually that's going to break." And then the only difference is when Nixon closed the gold window in '71, that was the only game in town. Now you have—you look at the combined volume of the Shanghai Metals and Futures Exchange, it surpassed that at ComX. So these are these are markets to not underestimate, and and a massive rising interest in um in Dubai and the Brics Metals exchange, and you know, so yeah, I would say it's it's a huge deal. It really is. It's it's it's a huge deal, and and you're seeing—that's maybe that's why you're seeing such massive reshoring, and they lied about why. Yeah, let's call it tariffs so we don't alert anyone. And the Bank of England caught on. Aha. Well, guess what? We're T plus 8 weeks now. So, I mean, I don't know. It just seems as though national interests versus globalization will prevail, at least in terms of—I would think in terms of natural resources. Maybe that's why they're scurrying. Maybe that's what's behind, you know, Trump saying that he wanted to to bring Canada and Greenland and—well, they're natural-resource-rich and in things that we need—largely gold and silver and and oil and and and rare earth. So it's not just the the strategic um um geographic location, which is certainly a benefit. It's also the natural resources. And that's what Zultan Posar says. This new system moves away from opaque debt instruments and and trusting the debt of another nation as an asset. Instead, they want things in their own possession that you need, like—you know, there are those—there are those games on your on your iPhone where you build a community and you start with, you know, a hammer and a nail, and you end up, you know, with—at the very end—on on flying spaceships, but the point of it is you need the things to to progress to build—it's not just about promises from a broke nation, right? I think a lot of people probably would have a lot of interest maybe in a system like that, but anyways, that's that's above our pay grade.

All right, so I want to make this point especially on—sober, really practical for people. Um, so for those who have invested in physical precious metals, um, you learn something real quick about silver versus gold, uh, it's a lot heavier at equivalent values, right? So if if you own, you know, uh, $10,000 worth of gold, I mean, you can hold that in your hand and you hardly even feel it, right? You own $10,000 worth of silver, it's pretty darn heavy to carry. Um, so obviously, Andy, um, people can buy bullion from an organization like yours and have it shipped to them and store it. Um, but if you're excited about this, um, asymmetric opportunity in silver, you may find that as you accumulate silver, like it begins to become an issue uh, because it's it's heavy. You run out of place to store it. If you're storing it on in your house, it's a theft risk, it's a loss risk, etc. So, as as people—I mean, obviously people should have their own stack that's close to them as kind of their starting point. But once they get to the point where they're like, I don't know if I want to—I want to own more silver. I just don't want to own more ounces where I live or I'm keeping it close to me. Um, what's your advice to people, and and I know you have a vaulting service. I don't know if that's the next step or whatnot, but but what's your advice to people who are trying to take advantage of silver but don't want to be, you know, sitting on a refrigerator-size of it in their house?

Well, I think that everyone should own some mining shares first and foremost. I do think that—I don't sell those, but you know, the guys at Sprott do and others and and I'm sure you have advisors that can help. I think that there are um real opportunities in in the tiny little silver space of of of mining shares, but that that's a different part of the portfolio. But let me just chime in on it, too. Folks, if you are investing there and you've not done before, a—it's it's wicked volatile, especially the silver market because it's the miners because it's so tiny. So, either just capture the beta, right? Ju—just just get the the ETFs that track the whole mining sector, and you're going to own the dogs in there as well as the good ones. Just be aware of that. um or work with a professional um or follow a professional um and there are a number out there um some of whom appear on this channel that that track this sector for a living and follow their picks. You you don't want to randomly go into this sector without experience because there's so many widow makers on there. It's super easy as a rookie to just lose it all. So that's a good point, and and and that's why you know I I've always worked with the guys at Sprott in Carlsbad, California. But aside from that, yeah, physical, you know, you can have a million dollars worth of gold, which right now would be about 300 ounces. You know, you're talking 30 pounds or whatnot, and and run to your car. A million dollars in silver is going to weigh, you know, a lot. Um, probably more than your car—pound. Yeah. And so when you talk about logistics, that is the one drawback. Um, our storage program, I think, makes us the envy of the storage industry. I truly do believe that. Um, because we have exclusives with Brinks that no one—to my knowledge—has, including a fixed rate structure, including vaults in in Dallas and Miami. We're the only ones there—to my knowledge—including safe deposit box programs in Vancouver and Toronto that they've never given anyone in North America. Um, and so yeah, we have vaults in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City, Dallas, Miami, and New York City. All with Brinks—fully insured and more importantly than anything—fully segregated. Um, and so yeah, you get to a point where logistically it becomes challenging. Look, if you can hold it without ever crossing that that discomfort line, then I think you should. Physical holding is the best way to do it. I make money a little bit, mind you, when when people use our Brinks program, but I use Brinks because they're the preeminent name, and it's third party, and there's a delineation, you know, between my company who might sell the metal and and the storage. We also take metal that you bought elsewhere. If you have it too much already, we can help you send it into one of the Brinks facilities for full segregation. Um, and if you're going to store it, you must always have full segregation. Allocation means it's allocated to the storage program, but it's pulled. Big no. Full segregation, auditing from a from a name like Brinks who has a massive balance sheet, and you know where the location is, so you can go and pick it up if you want. Uh, th—those are all, you know, anything deviates from that, it's a non-starter for me. So, um, yeah, I think it's a great program and and, um, certainly also those who have IRAs that are underperforming or they, you know, they're nearing the, um, um, the uh, what am I—the distribution phase as you're getting into your 70s, you can buy gold and silver, physical gold and silver held in your IRA, have it held at a depository like Brinks, and then start taking distribution of it if you ever wanted to through what's called an in-kind distribution. You actually say, "Give me my gold and silver." It's a taxable event. Yeah. But yeah, sorry. You reminded me of something that we don't have time to get into today, but we should get into next time.

And folks, chime in the live chat or comments if you do indeed have interest in this. Um, there are a number of companies out there that kind of promote—hold precious metals in your your IRA, right? Um, and I know that—I've known that many of them are problematic, but I've learned from you that that there's a lot of problems out there. Um, and uh, I want to give you the chance when we have more time to really do this topic justice to explain if if you're looking to go that route, what to watch out for and what to look for. And obviously the the Brinks solution you're talking about there is going to be one of the ones to look for. I'm glad you brought that up because I I I started saying it on Mike Adams' podcast. I never mention the company names. I won't do that. But I've been blown up—I'm talking—couple thousand emails—um in the last year from people asking my help on this. Um, here's here's the—and it's funny. They all do the same thing. There's about seven or eight of them, and they all do the exact same thing. It's like they all come from the same genesis. If you have—first of all—any company that specifically only sells IRA—run—that's—and typically they employ high-paid spokespeople, but here's what they all sell, and if you got this—send—and by the way, anyone who wants to contact us, we have a price list that we do not publish that will be as good or better than anywhere in America: info@milesfranklin.com, or any questions that you've heard on this show, we're happy to answer them—no obligation—want the price list, we won't contact you unless you ask to be contacted. Um, and if you find yourself in this quagmire, send us an email and say, "I heard about this," and make sure in the subject line you you you put—came from Adam or Thought for Money. Um, so we know where it comes from. But every one of them sells the same thing: quarter-ounce gold coins from mints I've heard of, but designs I've never heard of in 35 years. Um, so they're not sovereigns. They're not the universally accepted 1-oz versions. So the much higher premia—quarter ounce. Okay. Yeah. But when I—when—and and they're always—they're called premium coins. It's the biggest bunch of nonsense you've ever heard. They're destroying people's lives. And I'm not joking. These quarter-ounce coins you will have paid between $950 and $1,250 apiece for, depending upon when you bought it. Even at 950, do the math. You're, you know, you're you're just under $4,000 an ounce. And it's a premium coin. Silver coins will be be between 1/2 ounce and 2 ounces. In every case, they are from typically from mints—usually Australia, Canada, or or the UK or something, but they're designs that we've never heard of. And there are PL programs at the Royal Canadian Mint as an example where they will let you design your own coin in a size that they that they don't compete with—like a one-and-a-half-ounce silver coin—and make your own design, and you have exclusivity to that. It's your companies—you have to buy maybe a few million dollars worth, and then they cite it as being completely and totally special. They're selling these things for for 100-plus-percent markups. In this industry, if you mark things up more than 2%, you're pretty much not going to be uh in competition with anybody. So, if you find yourself in a situation where in your IRA you've bought quarter-ounce gold. I mean, that's what they sell—every single one of them—which is really weird. Every one of them. Um, quarter-ounce gold coins—you paid north of 900—between 9 and 12 or 13. Contact us. Or those silver coins between a half ounce and 2 ounces. um could be 1 and 1/4 ounce, 1/2 ounce, and your per-unit cost was north of 60 and somewhere between there and 120. You probably got ripped off, and we can tell you what to say and how to deal with it. We can show you the truth. Um, some of these—we do this with—for—we don't charge a penny to show you. If you end up wanting to do business with us on the other end, great. But it's been a kind of a mission of mine, and it—what started out as just talking to Mike Adams about it. I've been asked to come on lots of shows, including Kyle Sarapan, who's a a whistleblower for the FBI, and he had—he had the CFO of one of these companies on his show recently come out and speak about these companies, and uh it it's it's horrific. So we can help you—call us or send us an email if you've been caught up in that. We can talk about it next time more in depth. Yeah. Yeah, we can. I just wanted folks to be aware of the issue, and clearly it sounds like something you're real passionate about, but it sounds like—and I've heard this from other sources too—this is something that's really kind of been a scourge in the industry, and it's it's hurt a lot of people, especially older people um who call because they listen to a podcast like this and say, "Oh, I think I should own some of this," and then they get talked into uh you know, investing in these—both in these form factors that don't work out. And to be honest, there's also, I think, some uh—and we can get into this more next time—some of these companies sort of say, you know, you can hold your money in in the IRA, but you can hold it yourself and it's self-custody. And it gets real real gray where the law is, and sometimes people find themselves either um getting charged for early distribution when they didn't think that was going to be the case or getting—never self-custody IRA. The IRS ruled on it and called it just that. It was an early um uh distribution with penalties and back taxes. They ruled on that a few years ago. Never ever ever through an LLC take physical possession. It always must be in a depository. Always. Or you're going to regret it. Okay. So, again, we'll get into the details more next week if folks indeed want us to. I sense they they very much will. But anyways.

All right, Andy. Well, look, um we've gone way over time, so my apologies, but thank you. You're you're one of the best out there, and I'm honored to be here. I'd go all day with you if you wanted. And uh I I had another one at noon. I told them we'll redo it at 5, but I'm so sorry. It's all good. I I I really enjoyed this, and I like the tough questions, and I like when people push back. I think they should—they should challenge, but um you know, I I if if I come across as—I'm I'm not—I'm not as smart as Peter Schiff, but I work as hard as I can, and I try and do right by people, and and to be here with you, that's about as—You're being way too hard, Andy. uh very educated.

Smart guy. I think your integrity shines through, and folks can make up their own minds, but obviously you got a ton of fans here in the live chat.

Um, real quick, um, so I always like to give people free resources where possible. Um, if you are interested in learning more about precious metals and the options for holding them and what makes sense in what situations, if you haven't already read ThoughtfulMoney's free guide on this, just go to thoughtfulmoney.com/gold. You can see the URL right there. Uh, that'll get you that free primer that kind of just walks you through all the options. It's a really good intro into the precious metals owning space. Uh, everything from bullion to paper instruments to the miners, etc., uh, to storage.

Um, and then also, as Andy said earlier, um, if you want to get some personalized help on, uh, if you want to, you know, either get into precious metals or increase your exposure, um, you can talk to Andy and the staff of experts at his firm, staff of experts at his firm, Miles here at info.com. Uh, as Andy said, when you contact them, tell them that, you know, you saw Andy on Thoughtful Money, and they'll have the context of this conversation in mind. Um, but they can answer any questions you have, and and as I've said, uh, I had to look at a lot of different precious metals firms. Uh, when I was trying to judge which one do I feel comfortable kind of putting Thoughtful Money's brand at risk by associating with, uh, Andy clearly rose to the top of that, which is why you see them here on this channel, and we'll continue doing these every month going forward. People were really unanimous in the uh, the chat here, Andy, that they want to see this continue.

So folks, if you've enjoyed this, again, please hit the like button, uh, then click on the subscribe button below, as well as that little bell icon next to it. And uh, you know, if if you like this format and want us to continue, please let us know in the live chat. And if there's any improvements or things you'd like to see changed, again, leave that in the comments section below. I read them all, and we will take that into consideration.

But Andy, my friend, it's always wonderful to spend time. Appreciate you.

Thank you, man. I really do appreciate it. I look forward to picking up where we left off. Hope everyone has a great day.

All right. Same here. We'll see you next month, Andy and everybody else.