Transcription
Maybe Bitcoin runs up, tags [music] a just touches a new all-time high and then then falls from there. You know, maybe it hits 130 grand and it's all over.
Jason Pazino [music] has spent over 19 years trading commodities, real estate, stocks, and crypto. He's been warning about diminishing returns for years. Now, his [music] charts are saying something new.
"My conservative outlook is between 43,000 and 58. So, we've just touched that."
Now, in this interview, the exact date, he says the market's behavior flipped, the 220-year cycle that pinpoints the exact [music] top and the one thing that would prove him wrong.
"If you could just hold one for 2 years, would it be Bitcoin, cash, or gold?"
"Oh, that's tough. Probably."
"The insiders know about it and then they start to sell out. The public still believes, the public buys the dip, and then the public finds out."
"Remember, nothing in this video is financial advice. It's for educational purposes only."
"It's probably the time where most people will tune out, but it's probably the time that everyone should be tuning in."
"And importantly, does Bitcoin ever see $126,000 ever again?"
"Well, his answer is the first thing that you'll hear."
"Jason, welcome to the channel. It's great to have you here. Thanks for coming on. How's it going?"
"Yeah, good, Kyle. Thanks for having me on. Really good over here."
"Awesome. Awesome. Cool. Jason, uh, first thing I want to ask you for is a big question. Uh, I think that you've been pretty outspoken about this. Does Bitcoin ever see $126,000 again, you know, this coming cycle? Yes or no?"
"Again, yes. This next bull market, the jury is still out. And I think if it does hit it, I don't know if it's going to go much past it."
"Because last cycle there might have been some telling signs there from those major altcoins which Salana, Ethereum, XRP, they barely broke their all-time highs and then monthly on a monthly basis they didn't even close above them. So the market's saying something, not just me. I know people get a little bit offended, but yeah, the market's saying something."
"You go, can you just go a bit more in depth on that? I mean because you know historically it's it's always done right the Bitcoin's always in higher highs every cycle and not by a little bit by by quite a bit. Um so yeah maybe you could just dig a bit deeper on that."
"Yeah, I mean going deeper into it, it it seems like each cycle has the the outcome from the cycle has been that the market has gotten a little bit disappointed with each of the bull markets since 2017. I know you've been around for a while and you saw 2021 and most people were calling for $100,000 Bitcoin, $200,000 Bitcoin and then there was the disappointment because that second pump up we saw in October and November didn't go much past the first top in April, 65 grand to 69 grand. And then obviously we came to this cycle and it went higher. We got that first pump to 74 which was like wow this happened sooner. And then the rest of the pump it didn't even double the last cycle top. Whereas in 2017 to 2021 we more than tripled it going from 20 grand to 70 grand. So right we're obviously seeing that diminishing returns. So digging a bit deeper into my my statement there if we don't go much past it. It seems like the market is saying that it is not as interested in putting its money into Bitcoin as what it has been in the past. I'm not saying that it will never come back. I just I think that the easy times of these all-time high after alltime high might be fading because it seems too obvious."
"Is there anything that would significantly change your kind of outlook on that? I mean uh let's say a Bitcoin strategic reserve or uh clarity act or this sovereign buying or this family office or whatever. Like is there anything that would kind of invalidate your thesis on that one a bit?"
"The validation would have to come from price. Like price essentially breaking past it decisively, which to me comes from increase in volume, which means more buying, more people are actually putting their money where their mouth is and buying it and pushing it past that price and then holding past that top. Because all of these other things that you've you've mentioned, family offices and strategic reserves and, you know, we can go on and on with the lists, they're all sort of talk unless people put their money where their mouth is. So all of these avenues can be opened and we saw them open this cycle with the ETF and we saw crypto president in two big ones. We saw Micro Strategy buying how many percent do they own of the whole supply you know one one whatever percent something crazy."
"Almost five."
"Yeah."
"Almost 5% right."
"I think is still below 2021."
"Yeah, yeah, so I I mean it in my mind it would it does feel like it would need something quite significance and uh but I if anything ever happens with strategic reserve you know, we get this you know US buying on on their path to buy % or something like that over five years or whatever the case may be. That does seem like quite a big stimulus to me and then people might front run it. And uh yeah, I mean that's I do think that there's some sort of new narrative that needs that, you know, needs to come from Bitcoin for it to to see an aggressive, you know, uh point of past cycles."
"Yeah, I I think that the narrative will probably begin to build once the new cycle starts, but in the meantime, I think there's got to be a lot of hurt like over the next few years that is because that's going to be a really good base to begin to build that narrative from because right now like you know I've been around for what 8 n years now 2017 is when I started early days and then it's just been way too easy leading into these highs. Everyone just thinks you buy and hold forever and it's going to be okay. And this has pretty much been that first cycle where you haven't been able to buy and hold for that 4 year period and you you've wiped out those losses because the price has fallen underneath 2021. So 5 years have passed, you've got negative returns and inflation has basically destroyed that as well. So I think that easy frame of mindset has to be destroyed first. Maybe the fouryear cycle theory regarding only that it has to break to a new all-time high might have to die as well. I'm not saying four year cycle is dead because I there is no way to kill a 4-year cycle. There is a cycle. It's just how weak or strong that cycle will be. But once that dies, then I think we have a good chance to rebuild for that next big bull run. When everyone's sort of lost interest, they're saying Bitcoin's dead. It's over. The four cycle's broken. you know, everything that would got thrown at it through 2025, couldn't help it. That's the time after all that stuff's come out, I think we're going to have some really good opportunities from there. But I think that's probably a few years off."
"Okay. So, that that would be like a a kind of a final capitulation moment. Um, but in the interimm, looking at this cycle currently in maybe 2026, do you see a bottom coming in this this year for this current cycle? And, you know, what are you doing personally with your portfolio, your allocation, your liquid assets? Are you you have you have dry power on this side? Are you looking for you know a like you have a a low target in mind? Where's the bottom?"
"Yeah, my conservative outlook is between 43,000 and 58. So we've just touched that now. And this is just based on a a fib retracement similar to each prior cycle where Bitcoin usually falls to and each prior cycle it's retraced less and less. So that's why I've got a reser conservative target there between 43 and 58. And I think from there we may well we we'll see a rally. Just how strong that rally is will depend on the accumulation period. If there hasn't been too much accumulation, it's going to be pretty hard for it to to shoot up to anything significant. So yeah, I'm I'm waiting for the transition to take place bear to bull. I'm waiting for the rest of my indicators to trigger, if you will, and then I think that's probably a good buying opportunity there where you start to see the momentum swing back to the bulls. And I'm I'm willing to forego the exact low to wait for that confirmation. It's just the price you pay."
"Right."
"Yeah. You mentioned indicators, but what kind of indicators do you personally use?"
"The main ones I talk about on YouTube would be volume. So looking at actually how much is getting traded and where is that being traded like is it traded on the up bars or the down bars. Sentiment pretty important to Bitcoin and cryptos. And then time. Time's been one of the biggest ones. As much as people want to disbelieve it or try to disprove it, time has basically shown up every single cycle for the last what are we at 2026. You could go you can chart back to 2010. So 16 years and it's just like clockwork."
"So yeah, time, sentiment and uh volume which is essentially the liquidity of the market."
"So do you have any idea kind of like time time is a big Yeah. big big issue. Yeah. And it's been like clockwork. Uh so a lot of [clears throat] a lot of what I see on the timeline looks at October kind of as a timeline, but I think that you're you're kind of signaling for Q3 maybe uh for a bottom."
"Yeah, I'm I'm interested to see what like how the market responds around September because we've got a bit of a rally kind of happening at the moment. It looks like things are starting to transition a bit more bullish and I know a lot of people are looking at October. Maybe things get front run in September. I'm not tied to it, but I definitely think we'll I mean I definitely think we'll see something in the second half of the year for a low. Um but yeah, I just I haven't seen that final that sign yet. We could have seen it on the 1st of July with the 57,000. I just I don't know yet because we don't have enough confirmation. So yeah, I I just think it's probably the time where most people would tune out, but it's probably the time that everyone should be tuning in."
"Yeah. With that being said, I mean, if I had a a buddy right now that's looking to kind of get into the markets, you know, smart one who's pay maybe paying attention for a while, but hesitant to kind of get in and deploy, you know, this range right now, the 60 to 62,500 $63,000 mark. Do you think that would be a good time for them to come into the market or uh DCA or or we just kind of chill right now because you think you're definitely going lower? what what would be a good signal for someone to start deploying back in?"
"I think the the low that we saw on the 30th and 1st of July, so 30th of June, 1st of July was a pretty good sign that the the behavior of the market began to change. So if you're comfortable, say that was at 57 58,000 bucks and it maybe it falls to whatever 40,000. If you're comfortable with that sort of draw down, then I don't think now is a bad time at all. Like I think from that change of behavior that we've seen, the price ranges that we're at, uh depending on who you are and what you're comfortable with, you know, if you can expect a uh what's 60 to 40k, like 30% thereabouts, 25% draw down in your portfolio, then it could be a good time for you. If you can't handle 25% moves, then probably Bitcoin is not a great asset overall because it easily does. We know it easily does 20 25%. So, yeah, I I think it's probably not a bad time."
"All right, guys. So, some quick housekeeping. I hope that you're enjoying this video so far. Some exciting news coming out of what we've been building. So, first of all, we've got my website, kyleshassay.com. And we'll leave a link for all the stuff down in the description below. But there you can go find uh everything there, my portfolio, what I've been doing, who I am if you're not familiar. But most importantly for you guys, there's the deals page where all the affiliate links are there. And every single one of them has some sort of bonus. So, if you're thinking about using a new exchange or getting yourself a crypto debit card like a cash card or VPN, whatever, it's all over there. You're going to get deals and discounts on everything. [music]"
"Second, we have a new channel that launched, the Shassi report. Again, I will leave a tile card at the end of this video. For example, if you're curious about how big SpaceX can get by the year 2035. Well, we cover that in depth in a really fun and entertaining way. The new channel is all about finance on a broader level. We cover AI, macro, global finance. It's really fun. And it's it's not necessarily crypto, although there might be some crypto in there, but it's really uh just a broader channel where I talk about the things I'm really interested in."
"And lastly, guys, the data room. If you haven't seen the video on that that I made recently, I will leave a end screen at the end of this video as well for that and put the link in the description below. But the data room is where I put all of my institutional grade research. Now, I must make a disclaimer. Past performance does not guarantee future performance. And again, [music] the data room has three tiers in there, and that's where I go to put institutional grade research. More information at wop.com/thedata room and the link in the description below."
"All right, guys. Back to the video. Let's go."
"You talk a lot about this 18-year real estate cycle as and as someone who personally owns real estate and uh you know, so on my family, a lot of the audience, can you kind of go into that that a bit more, the 18-ear cycle?"
"Yeah, for sure. Look, it it's the 18-year US real estate and economic cycle. The data goes back over 200 years in the US and the like the long and short of it is it's roughly 14 years up, four years down and it's been showing up, you can go and have a look all the way back to 1800 in the US. There was a period through the 1930s or so where it went sideways for a while because the world was in a great depression and the second world war. So pretty much money was tied up and not so much interested in speculation on land but apart from that it's basically been like clockwork for the last 220 years. So as the name suggests roughly 18 years US real estate and and the economy which of course also means business and credit. So how this relates to Bitcoin is the credit side of things. get the credit out of the system or if the credit starts coming out of the system and they start reducing it like higher interest rates and le maybe less money printing for a period of time but interest rates of course and the banks get pulled back on how much they can loan well then there's just going to be less money in the system and I think you know we're all pretty familiar with how those credit cycles work in a market and so it's not really any different to that it's just if that credit starts to come out as it looks like it might begin to occur and we're starting to see it in Canada, UK, Australia recently, then where's that money going to come from to push Bitcoin? The narrative of often shifts to, well, Bitcoin is a safe haven. It's like the gold. It's this and that, but it hasn't really acted like that yet. Not saying it can't, but we need to see it act like that type of safe haven and not go down when the rest of the markets are going down."
"What do you think happens to the different markets if we see a big real estate correction? uh is that is that going to be you know good for stocks equities, Bitcoin, gold? What happens to all these markets?"
"Um I mean from the the cycles that I've studied usually in those corrections everything gets hit but it's just at slightly different times. You're not going to see everything peak on the exact day in that exact month, right? But through a correction or a crash, collapse, whatever, cash is king. And normally at the tops we hear that cash is trash. Make sure you've got all your cash into the markets. That's that's a cycle top. You know, we hear it. We see it in Bitcoin. We see it in cryptos all the time. It's like what are you doing holding on to this worthless money? It's just happens every single time. And unless you've been through a cycle, whether it's altcoins or crypto or bitcoin or whatever, you just you don't know. And you put your money into the markets. Like right now we're seeing IPOs, the biggest in history, trillions of dollars. And what are people doing? They're putting the money into the markets to try and make a make a few bucks at the most volatile period of the market. So, I think your question was I'll go back to your question. What do I think happens? Well, I think the markets head down. Looking back at the last cycle, the peak of um here you can throw the chart up so at least some people have got an idea of what this 18ear cycle looks like while we talk. Peak of the last cycle where that yellow dot is 2006 for the US. We saw real estate peak around 2006 in the US. We saw the stock market, S&P, Dow, Jones peak in 2007. We saw gold and silver peak in 2008. Everything came down in 2008. It was all coming down. The stock market, we know, fell 54%. We know silver fell about 60% that same year, 2008. Gold fell about 35%. Uh, and of course, real estate was on the way down. It stayed down till 2012. So, was there anywhere to hide? Not really. Usually it's bonds or cash or something. But, you know, I'm not telling people to go out and buy bonds cuz everyone's fearful of what the government's doing right now, but I don't think people really trust what what Trump's going to be doing. So, cash seems to be the place. And that usually and then I guess people start to fear cash because of the US dollar and the inflation and not trusting Trump or whatever's going on. But when you look at it from a perspective of how much the the the value of assets, are those assets going down in price at that time of the crash? Well, yeah. Well, then your dollar's worth more even if they're inflating it."
"Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, you did mention you did mention alts uh for a minute there and I think that your take is that that's the worst market across the board right now. And uh so I'd like to get your opinion more on altcoins and I believe you know you even say that a lot of the majors that we've seen over the past cycles have done really well. You've lost a lot of faith in uh can you just double click on that a bit?"
"Yeah. Yes. I thought you said that I said those alts did really well. I'm like, 'Oh, yeah. They did.' No. Yeah. So, we'll just focus on say like ETH, XRP, and Salana, at least for this cycle. I mean, it's >> did well in 2021, and then this cycle it it barely hit a new alltime high with by a few dollars, I think it was. Yeah. And then on a monthly closing basis, it fell. It didn't close above the previous all-time high that was set four years prior. ETH topped before Bitcoin topped. Uh Salana only barely hit a new all-time high this cycle. You know, last cycle was about $260 in 2021. This time it hit 295 in January 2025. So, it topped even before Ethereum topped. It didn't even put in a new top when Bitcoin was running up in that last move. So, you can really start to see how much the liquidity and the credit was getting sucked out of crypto. But, we didn't want to believe it in that cycle. We didn't want to believe it in 2025. lower highs are very very weak. And then XRP had its [clears throat] had its turn and ran in January 2025 and then ran up in July to a new alltime high in 2025. And that was July when we know Bitcoin topped in October. So it peaked July, Ethereum peaked August, Salana peaked January, and then everything came crashing down. And they only barely broke alltime highs. So, I I hope it's not a precursor to this next, let's say, rally or let's call it a bull market for now. I hope it's not a precursor for Bitcoin as to what to expect to happen to Bitcoin in this run. Maybe Bitcoin runs up, tags a just touches a new alltime high, and then then falls from there. You know, maybe it hits 130 grand and it's all over because those three >> did that. And um yeah, that's I it might be a sign of the times in regards to credit."
"Yeah. What what else do you think might be causing that? I mean uh you this kind of lack of interest in the crypto markets this cycle this time around. Uh you know, is it is it the fact that you've had you know all these IPOs and tech stocks and equities running or you know what what is it um that's different this time around than the previous ones?"
"It's obviously hard to say because unless we interviewed every single person who said they were going to put money in and didn't, where did you put your money? We will never know. And and to those people who did put money in, why didn't you put more? Like we'd have to interview everyone, but I mean a few of the main narratives of the stuff that you've said before, possibly everyone's more interested in AI. People have had their day in crypto. It's kind of like the the narratives, right? You know, back in the 2007 peak, we had ICOs and that was all the hype. And around that time, we also had marijuana stocks. And now, what happened to marijuana stocks? No one trades those. And so, there's always a different um narrative for people to to trade and it doesn't seem like that's really of any interest to people. On top of that, I think it's got something to do with Reddit and the money is just going elsewhere. So, narratives have died off. there's not a not a strong sense to want to trade here. There's obviously the the gambling apps that people are interested in now. That's the new shiny thing. And credit like I think people are a bit concerned with the interest rate considering it's remained on hold in the US for many many many months when the whole story was it should be well they wanted wanted for it to be cut to bring more money back. So yeah, a few things like that shifted compared to what people thought they were where they were going to be at this stage."
"Are you following uh are you are you doing kind of a stocks at all? Are interest playing at that market at all? Are you looking at AI stocks, chips, power, all that kind of stuff? What are your thoughts on the market over there? I actually watched uh an interesting video from Andre Jick last night about the AI bubble popping and um you know, because the value is just not there. Curious if you saw that or your thoughts on AI market and tech stocks."
"I think that tech stocks I mean the tech stocks have been down for a while maybe 6 months 12 months in some cases. I have to look at like Meta, Microsoft, Google. Um, the stronger ones like Apple have been up, Nvidia have been up, AI, AI chips, they've obviously been going off with the Korean market. You got SK stock over there and uh Samsung electronics basically making up 60% of the Korean stock market. So, people are trading those. The volatility is not something that I like because I want to be holding stock positions and then riding those up. the larger swings at highs is not uh a great area to be investing in. Trading different story if you've got a plan like that. But when there are big swings at highs, it's usually a sign of distribution that can form into another move higher. But right now, we're seeing those signs of um distribution. So, I don't think by any means that the stock market has topped. I think we've got further to go in the stock market through uh late 26, maybe into 2027, but I think we're at those final stages now. We're much closer to the end than we are to the beginning. But once we get closer to that end, I think we'll start to hear stories from people saying this is just the beginning. And I we even heard that at the beginning of this year, people saying this is the new bull market. I I vividly recall that in regards to the AI and how this time is, you know, start the counts from now. It's like guys, the market's been going up for a long time. At the very least, 2022 low."
"Curious to get your thoughts on the big the big the big players coming into the kind of into the crypto space. We just had Robin Hood launch their chain. Uh we see some, you know, some you know, some like fun BS narratives over there about memes or whatever running little new meta that form over there. Not a big I'm not really asking about that, but I am curious to get your thoughts on like these the big players like Robin Hood, like X launching X money. We know there's going to be some deal with crypto there. We don't know to what extent it's going to happen. You know, we know that PayPal introduced their stable coin. So, uh you know, and then we also know that Robin Hood's talking a lot about RWAs and Larry Frink RWAS, bringing everything onchain tokenized. Do you think that they kind of influence from these big players who've got, you know, these tens of millions of customers or hundreds of millions of customers and the RWA angle bringing these tokenized stocks and bonds and things like that on chain? Does that affect Bitcoin and altcoins and the crypto market or is that just like a new way for uh Tradfi to play on a new infrastructure set?"
"I think there could be something to the RWA and then the tokenization of of stocks as an example so we can start to trade 24/7 on the NASDAQ or S&P. Uh whether that has any effect on Bitcoin like what why would Bitcoin be needed for that I don't know. Maybe they're going to build it on their own chains. Maybe they're going to build it on some other chain that they've got their own stable coin on. So you can see it starting to move towards that whole stable coin side of things. Is that stable coin going to be on Ethereum or Salana? I don't know. But I'm sure we'll we'll hear stories about which one and then that'll lead to some sort of speculation on ETH or Soul. But that's that could be one of the plays that happens towards the end of this decade. I don't know if it's going to be 2026 or 2027, but we're getting close to the end of the decade anyway. So it seems like that could be one of those um narratives that begins the the accumulation at least because that seems like a real world use case."
"Yeah."
"Yeah."
"True."
"Okay. So going back to something you touched on earlier, this this kind of everything collapse, you know, the the 18-year real estate cycle that brings everything down with it. I believe you've also said that that's what what we're looking at is potentially worse than 2008. Curious to get kind of your your viewpoints on that. We're going to see another huge everything collapse and and when does that come?"
"So yeah, the the correction overall collapse uh like I mentioned would be at different times for the for different asset classes like we talked about for 2008. So with that in mind, you might not see it all at the same time, but I think it'll show up when we get to that catalyst point. As an example, we know 2007 to top for the stock market, then the um medals topped in 2008, but that catalyst of Lehman Brothers going down was that September October period of 2008, which was so close to the the bottom in March 2009. It was only 6 months off. Market had already been going down for 12 months. Real estate had been going down for two years."
"So yeah. there there's there's going to be something like that. But the way people experience it depending where they live like you know you're out in I don't know if people know where you are but you're not in the US let's say in those different places around the world you're going to feel it differently to say right at home in the US or right here in Australia. Um the example I've got is say Melbourne here in Australia. the property price has already been coming down for about five or six years and we haven't even got to the top. So on the one hand we could experience further declines for the top end of real estate. So stuff that's 2 million 3 million plus but the bottom end that's tra that that's one beds two beds around 400,000 grand $400,000 or 500,000 you're not going to see the same sort of declines. So this overall collapse is um people are going to experience it differently depending on where they are around the world."
"Okay."
"And are you saying that you're already starting to see the beginning of this happening now or what when can we you know is when does it I know it happens at different stages as you said but like when's it start?"
"Well, I guess it's already started because we've been running so long and all these credits already in the system and we're at to the st we're up to the stage where the trillion dollar IPOs are now being released. So, it's basically sucking in the last of the the money into these tops which happens every single time. But, um, yeah, it's so where are we now? I think we're around that top. When do we get to that crash or the catalyst that that feeling that everyone remembers the the GFC for? I think Americans call it um you don't call it the global financial crisis, do you? Don't you call it the great financial crisis?"
"Yeah, exactly. Yeah."
"Yeah. So, yeah, because for us it's global, for you it was America. It's great."
"Yeah."
"So, everyone remembers it for October 2008 or September whenever Leman Brothers went down. So that event I think is going to be like last time or the time before. It could be 12 months after the stock market peaks because you start to see things come down and down like Bitcoin in 2022. Well, the top was November 21 and the market was already down into May and June of the following year, which is 6 to 7 months later. And then we started to see all the DeFi collapse. Celsius go down and all the other names that were all scammers. And then of course 12 months later FTX goes down. So the insiders know about it and then they start to sell out. The public still believes the public buys the dip and then the public finds out. So that takes that's a process and even in crypto we saw it took 7 to 12 months. I think for the stock market it'll take a bit longer than that."
"Okay, cool. Yeah. Um All right. So, now uh I want to get into just kind of the the rapid fire part of the show. Jason, this is just uh really quick questions just with quick responses. Um, does Bitcoin hit 50,000 or 75,000 first?"
"I'll go with 75."
"Don't know."
"Interesting."
"Yeah. If you could just hold one for two years, would it be Bitcoin, cash, or gold?"
"Oh, that's tough. Probably cash at this point. But not forever. I think two is a it's a tough number, especially at the peak. Difficult questions. Keep going."
"Okay. Which one has a bigger the biggest bounce off the lows? Bitcoin, Ethereum, or Salana?"
"Salana?"
"Okay. [laughter]"
"That's a strategy."
"Off the bounce. Yeah, off the bounce."
"Yeah."
"And the next Fed move. This is a good one. Hike or hold or cut?"
"Hold. Hold. How about the one after that?"
"Oh, what is that? Where? July is the next one. The next one will be what? September. September. Yeah."
"Oh, I think they I think they're going to try and hold as long as they can. Even though yields are heading up, bonds are heading down. I think they're going to try and hold as long as they can. And uh right now are you more bearish or bullish on the market than you were three months ago?"
"More are we talking Bitcoin?"
"Yeah, Bitcoin crypto. Yeah."
"I'm more bullish on Bitcoin now than I was three months ago."
"Okay, cool."
"Is that Can we get zero out of six? Let's see if we do zero out of six."
"U is there anything uh else that you wanted to add? And also for those who who don't know who you are, um, you know, how do they get to know you, follow you, check out what you're doing?"
"Sure. You got tiainvestor.com and also my YouTube, which is just my name, Jason Pazino. I don't know if it shows up here, but pis zino. See you on YouTube or X or Instagram. All of them."
"Cool. It will. And we'll put your links in the description down below for anyone who wants to check it out."
"Um, anything else you want to add, Jason?"
"No, I just think be open to the the possibilities of the uh what we what we are least expecting. That's about it."
"Yeah. Well said, Jason. Thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate your time. Hopefully."
"Thank you, too. Likewise, mate. Cheers."
"Cheers."