The Blessed Virgin Mary in Our Redemption, Part 5 - with Steve Faucher

I'd like to welcome Steve Foscher again for his talk on the blessed virgin Mary in our redemption series. This will be the fifth part of a series that's ongoing now about our blessed mother. Uh, just a beautiful presentation.

Uh, I'll go ahead and begin with a prayer, if that's okay, Steve.

>> Sure.

>> In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. May we enter into the eternal divine order of God to place our absolute nothingness in the heart of the most holy trinity to give to our Father the joy of fulfilling the purpose of our existence by doing all the acts of our lives through the immaculate heart of our mother Mary and in the divine will of God. And in this same manner, may we pray, eat, live, act, work, walk, sleep, and do all things. May our souls want only what God wants and be fused in His holy will. May He live our lives in our stead. Our beloved divine will, do with our souls whatever You want. All I ask, or all we ask, is that You bind us to Your holy will so intimately that we may never swerve from carrying out what we know to be Your glory and that we remain so docile and attentive to the movements of Your divine will in our souls that You never perceive even a breath of resistance to Your life in us. Come, divine will, with all the angels and saints, especially our sweet Mother, to touch our foreheads, to imprint on them the Holy Spirit, and infuse in us the light so we can understand the truths and the goods that are in these writings and prayers. Amen.

>> Yes. Amen. Amen.

>> Amen. And Lord, my desire, Jesus, is what Your desire is: that Your mother be known and loved by all, in everything that she has been done with You, for You, by You, of You, and the Holy Trinity. And in Your holy divine will, we pray in everything. Listen in our listening, speak in our speaking, understand in our understanding. Only that we live of Your holy divine will and not of our human will. Amen. Amen. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Amen.

Um, so I sent on Signal again, um, what I had done a couple weeks ago, but in case anybody had forgot, um, I gave this again if anyone picked that back up, so you have something to follow along with. Hi, Niy. I, I see you right there. Good to see you.

Um, so that's that's kind of what we're going to look at tonight. Okay. And hopefully, we'll bring our, our, uh, teaching to a close. But I'm going to read something right here, just, uh, real quick, that I found so interesting. And, um, this is, of course, on Mary and her work in the co-redemption. This is from some other work that I was reading. And how fascinating I found that in the time of Martin Luther in the 1500s, and then with his rebellion against the church and John Calvin, etc. Um, he had, as an Augustinian friar, monk, priest, that he was, he had in his seminary training, uh, a priest professor whose name was Johan von Paltz. Okay. A German. Well, Martin Luther was German. But anyway, I'm going to read to you because in the beginning, Martin Luther had a, a fruitful understanding and a reverence for Mother Mary. But when he began to truly rebel against the church and all, then he separated himself further and further from Mary. And that's why you see him become much more distant as his theology got very bad.

But this was interesting, and I'm just going to read here. It says, "It is interesting to note that Luther, among his Augustinian professors, had a priest, Johan von Paltz, who was a strenuous assertor of the Marian co-redemption." In other words, the whole subject that we're talking about in this theme, right? "So much so as to even surpass the limits of the most daring maximalist." Now, what's a Marian maximalist? That's us. We believe in the maximum of everything that Jesus, the church, the magisterium, the divine will has revealed about her. Truly, we are Marian maximalists. Marian minimalists would be those in the church today that look simply upon our Lady as, well, she was His mother, and that's pretty much it, and she was a faithful disciple, you know.

So he further says, he says, "Indeed, this priest Johan held that the Virgin did not simply just participate in the Son's passion, but rather was present in the Son." No, this is more than bold. And you can see that this author of this particular talk, in a ser— it was a talk in a conference on co-redemption. And so he's pointing out that, my heavens, in the 16th century, 1500s, the teacher of of Luther was even so bold to sit there and say to such an extreme, not only did she just participate, not just that, rather she was present in the Son during the redemption. And then he writes, "Since the soul of the Mother was in the Son's body, only the Mother came to be wounded by this passion. Indeed, her soul was in the Son's body more than in her own."

>> Wow. That's so divine.

>> That's divine will.

>> Yeah.

>> That's divine will. And that's that inseparability, right, Jeff?

>> Yeah.

>> And though he really wouldn't have had the bravado or even the understanding to truly probably understand the depths of what he was saying.

>> Yeah.

>> He saw it to that point though, didn't he? And remember how we keep tickling, uh, throughout the millennia on different theologians, saints, mystics, etc., that have preceded, uh, of knowledge.

>> And that's only natural, isn't it?

>> Yeah. That's only natural because God doesn't surprise us out of nowhere with something like a whole cloth. In other words, something you've never heard before, something altogether different. That's not the likeness of God. God never has done that. He always builds upon what has been given before, and takes it as a progression.

>> And that's really what the church does in its magisterium. The fullness of God's revealed truth came when Jesus came to this earth. But did we fully, was it fully explicated, explained, understood? No. It's taken centuries to pull all that understanding of that revelation through. And this revelation is continuing.

>> Yeah.

>> As we're seeing in the divine will. So this is the beauty. But how beautiful to go back to something 500 years ago and this priest is saying with such daring, no, she was in His body.

>> Yeah.

>> And then he writes, "So sadly that Luther was not able to grasp."

>> Right. You know, it, it goes back to Louisa actually asking Jesus that question in the writings. Why didn't you just do this? Why didn't you just give us the gift when you came? And Jesus says exactly what you said. You weren't, you weren't ready for it. I had to give it to you. And He gives great examples throughout the writings of why this has been a process of reveal— of revelation revealing, and setting this up for us so we can have sips of knowledge and build on this. Uh, and we're still, like you said, we're still building on those sips, you know.

>> Exactly. And let's just go back to the Old Testament. You, we could use that same argument and say, why didn't God just reveal the divine will to Abraham?

>> Yeah.

>> Why did, why did Abraham have to go through offering his his son Isaac? Why did then we have to go to Moses and get the law on Sinai and the burning bush? Why didn't you give it to Moses on Sinai? Why didn't you, why didn't you, why didn't you?

>> Yeah.

>> But He's always given us more. It's like the scripture says in the Old Testament, God does nothing without revealing first, uh, to his prophets.

>> Yeah.

>> And what is a prophet? A prophet means one who speaks for God. One who speaks the oracles of God. That's what the meaning of the word prophet is. So God has always done this. But what a beautiful time that we're in, right? What a beautiful day and age and time that we are in to have this fullness of this truth now revealed to us.

>> Yeah. That's Amos, Amos 3:7 on the. Yeah.

>> That's right.

>> Francis Hogan loves that one.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's well, and it's true. We, let's just retain that understanding because each one of us participate in the role of priest, prophet, and king. And to some degree, God will will work in and with us in those dimensions, and some in more of that area than another.

>> But He's always still revealing. So we want to have, like Jesus says, ears to hear and a heart to receive because God is always speaking to us. And most especially when we get the sips of the knowledge of the divine will, right? It's the knowledge. So that's why nothing replaces the Book of Heaven. As much as I've been delighting in now today to give you some readings from, uh, the Mystical City of God, these simply augment or we see 400 years ago kind of precede what we fully know and fully revealed in the divine will in the Book of Heaven. Because even though with these things I'm going to read, it's not as if I'm reading them for validation. It's all right here.

>> Right. Right.

>> But if I was to start quoting from right here, all I would be doing is reading and reading and reading and reading this over and over. Volume 11, volume 12, volume 13, volume 14.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. But it's, it's, I hope that you're going to appreciate and we want to bring to a climax this understanding of Mary's work in our redemption and on these six particular points in these excerpts that we're going to look at from the Mystical City of God. So we discussed at the very end of our last session a little bit of who, uh, Maria Vagrada was. So we're not going to touch that. We're just going to get right into the work itself. And so if you have that paper in front of you and if you printed out anything for you, you'll see that I'm going to go to page 419. This is all, uh, in volume three, the Transfiguration, uh, of the, uh, Mystical City of God. And so the very first one I want to read is the understanding of Mary offering her son willingly to the Father. Okay. And why is this so important to me? Because since I do love and read and study Mariology so much, I realize that the theologians, the Mariologists, etc., always can only go so far and they use what scripture they have to bring to an understanding. But God, as we know, reveals more, doesn't He? And He does to His mystics, to His prophets. And that's what we're going to take a look because I think a lot of people maybe don't understand that yes, indeed, Mary did offer Jesus to the Father. People read the scripture and they don't, they don't read the words that Mary was offering Jesus to the Father, right? They simply see that Mary was there at the foot of the cross. We don't even see in scripture how Mary was on the way of the cross like we do in the Stations of the Cross, our devotion, when Mary meets Jesus and comforts Him, and as we see in the 24 Hours of the Passion. You see, we, we understand that Mary did come, but we don't see that in scripture. So, so where is this understanding that she willingly was offering Him, likened to, if you will, a priest? The priest offers the sacrifice of Jesus in persona to the Father, right? Mary was offering Jesus to the Father at the cross. She's not a priest. There was a time in the Middle Ages, uh, when there was a devotion that she was being looked upon as a priest, but that was stifled by the church because it's incorrect. She didn't have the office of priest. She was the office of mother, and as mother, she offered her son willingly for the purpose of our redemption. It was for the satisfaction of all sins and to the glory of God the Father for us and our salvation.

So I'll read this part and it says, uh, "It is proper that now, uh, let's see, let me, let me, proper that now we subject to Him our own will, as we have so often offered to do. Give me Your permission to enter upon My suffering and death." This is Jesus that is speaking to Mary. Okay, so let me back that up again. So He, Jesus is saying, "It is now proper, My Mother, that now You and I subject to our Heavenly Father our own will." Okay. Jesus is saying, "Mom, we're giving our will to the Father right now. This is you and I. I circled 'we'. We are subjecting to Him our own will, as we have so often offered to do." And they always did, right? Jesus and Mary were always one. One mind, one heart, one will. Everything they did, they did as a reflection of one another. So He is reminding His Mother. "Now, Mom, we are coming. Mother, we are coming and offering to the Father that subjection once again, not of our human will, but we're giving our complete ascendancy to the Father for everything that He desires."

So now He's going to ask a question to His Mother, and He says, "Give Me Your permission to enter upon My suffering and death as My true Mother. Consent that I deliver Myself over to My enemies in obedience to My eternal Father." Look at that. Jesus is asking His Mother for permission, for her consent to enter into this suffering and death. Why would He ask her that? Why would He ask her permission? Because the two were always one. They were never apart. Remember how the scripture says, "And He was subject to His Mother." Now, that's when He was 12 and that was at the loss of the temple. There is that aspect in which He was always subject to His Mother. Isn't it interesting in the Wedding Feast of Cana when she approaches Him? And, uh, matter of fact, that's what I want to do for my next teaching when, because I hope to close with this, this whole series, uh, on Mary and our redemption with tonight, and I thought that the next time I would really love to pour over what it means in the Wedding Feast of Cana. I, I think you'll really appreciate it. It's huge in its understanding, understanding. We don't begin to understand what that was all about. But Jesus still, He was subject to the Father, but He was subject to His earthly Mother as well. And most of all, in heart and in spirit, that's was greatly the subjectivity. He wanted the permission. He wanted the embracement of His Mother to say, "Yes, Son. I desire that You die for all mankind. I will not hold You back. I will not say no, no, and beg the Father, no." Jesus wanted her wholehearted. In other words, that continued steadfast purpose by which each of them came to this earth to remain. So please give Your consent.

And then He says, "And in this same manner, I ask You also willingly cooperate with Me in this work of eternal salvation." Wow. I'm asking You, please give Me permission so that I can do this. Embrace it. Consent so that You will fully embrace this whole work of redemption. But that's not all. I'm asking You to willingly now cooperate with Me in this work of eternal salvation. We have been together cooperating now for 33 years. And now, right now, I ask of You this final consummation. Completely cooperate in this salvation. Since I have received from Your virginal womb the form of a suffering and mortal man in which I am to redeem the world and to satisfy the divine justice, I want You there with Me. I want You cooperating in every bit of this. He says, "Just as you of your own free will consented to My incarnation, now I desire you to give consent also to My passion and death on the cross. I want you to sacrifice Me now of your own free will. To sacrifice Me now of your own free will to the decree of My eternal Father. This shall be the return which I am asking of you for having made me, made, yeah, yourself My Mother."

So this is where now Mary offers herself completely and willingly for everything that Jesus has come. And in a masterful way, in these five readings, we're just going to weave this whole path on this day of redemption. And the first part comes with Jesus laying it before her. "Now the time has come, My sweet Mother, hold nothing back, but in the eternal decree that Our Father has laid out all things in the predestination of you and I and for men in their salvation. Stay with Me, consent. Offer Me, sacrifice Me. Not only that, offer yourself willingly to sacrifice." Wow. This is redemption. The Blessed Virgin Mary in our redemption. That's what we're looking at.

Let's go to the next one. The next one is on page 472. And here is where Maria Vagrada, with the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is speaking to her, showing her all of this, is going to offer herself now with Jesus at His request. The first one was more specifically Jesus requesting Mary to offer Him. So yes, when we see Mary at the foot of the cross, when we see Mary in the divine will in every aspect of redemption, she is always offering Jesus. She's offering Jesus when He was in her womb, wasn't she? When He was in her womb, she was offering Him. She knew He was the Messiah. It was no surprises. Mary knew everything. And as she suffered the pains and sufferings that Jesus had and she experienced those, she was offering them as Jesus was offering them to the Father from the very beginning.

But let's go to this next aspect of Mary offering herself. So here again, Jesus now is speaking to Mary, and He says, "My Mother, I shall be with you in tribulation." Okay, actually, I should proceed this for a little bit. She is now getting ready to be before, in, in the, or excuse me, on Thursday at the Last Supper, as He's going to go to the Last Supper, before He departs to go to the Last Supper, and all this is to take place. These are like the last words that He's speaking to her. And He knows, "My Mother, I will be with you in tribulation. Let us accomplish the will of the eternal, eternal Father and the salvation of men." I have that circled with a big circle around the word "us." He doesn't say, "Let me accomplish the will of the Father and the salvation of men." "Let us. Let us accomplish the will of the eternal Father and the salvation of men." This is the two of them working together. Now, I say this a million times. I shouldn't have to say it, but to anybody who that would be listening, fresh and not understand, we are saying that all of the work of everything that Jesus did in the redemption as the God-man, in His divinity and His humanity, was a complete and total perfect redemption. But that does not exclude His decreed purpose and desire that Mary participate with Him in every way, every step of the way, all the time. So there's a fundamental sense that we have to be careful and not make it out like Jesus and Mary saved me.

>> Jesus saved me, but Mary was present with Him in everything. Not in a complete and total passive, subjective way. No, in an active, participating, suffering way.

>> See, that that goes back to the to the writings where a very simple phrase, which true love never separates.

>> True love. And that's what they were living, both of them, the divine will, true love, and it never separates.

>> That's right. That's right.

>> Inseparable.

>> That's right. And so we've talked about it before, and it's like it says in the document on Vatican II, and the Church has always said this, Mary's participation in everything with Jesus was in such a way that it, remember we talked about this months ago, that it neither added to nor subtracted from the work of Jesus. And at first, that seemed like not quite right. But fundamentally, it is right because Jesus is God. There is nothing that needed addition, or there is nothing that could subtract from. He's the God-man. But that doesn't mean that He didn't want and didn't have, participate,

>> with Him, right?

>> From the foundation of the world for the very purpose, His Mother. Yes, He did. So it's a mystery in understanding, but it's a truth. Okay. So, "Let us accomplish the will of the eternal Father and the salvation of men." The great Queen. Isn't this beautiful how Maria, uh, used, he does, she does this the same way that Jesus does in, in the divine will in the Book of Heaven. How often do we see Jesus say, "And the celestial Queen, My Mother," you know, "the Queen, the Queen, the Queen." And especially Louisa, as well. But so he says, "The great Queen offered herself as a sacrifice with her whole heart and now asked His blessing." So now we're seeing a, a reciprocal, aren't we? Jesus asked for the blessing of His Mother and a consent. Now it's the other way around. Jesus is offering herself as a complete sacrifice with her total and complete heart of sacrifice, and she's asking, "Please, for Your blessing over me."

>> Yeah. Which follows the Passion, the 24 Hours of the Passion. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, isn't that in the first hour or the second one?

>> Yes. Uh-huh.

>> When they, when they, "Bless me and I'll bless you," and it's—

>> That's exactly right. So we see that, and I would suggest, even though we don't have it written down, that that probably always went on in their life, huh?

>> Don't you think so?

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, let our imagination. Jesus in the divine will wants us to use our imagination all the time.

>> Okay.

>> In the ways that are His thoughts and not our thoughts. And, and, and this being something that we see as the truth, they would always be blessing one another. "Go forth, honey. I love you. Yes. Bless. Bless. Bless. Bless. Bless." Because all they cared about is one another.

Then it says, "Having received this blessing of His, she returned to her retirement." Now, this retirement was, she was with a couple others, or she may have been by herself. I'm sorry, I have to go back to the preceding paragraph. But as Jesus was going to the Last Supper, she was in her own place, but having total cognizance, awareness, understanding of everything that was going on with Him. And that's why it says right, right here, "Now, having received this blessing, she returned to her retirement where, by a very special favor of the Lord, she was enabled to see all that passed in connection with her divine Son. Thus, she was enabled to accompany Him and cooperate with Him in His activity as far as devolved from her." That means, in other words, that which had fallen to her, that God wanted. Isn't that beautiful? Because see how much we see that in the Book of Heaven, that Mary was always aware of where He was and what He was doing in that inseparability. And, um, so here the same truth is, is being shown to us, that yes, now she's separate from Him, but she is completely aware of what is going on in the Last Supper. And you guys know how many times in the past that I would bring out Mel Gibson's movie and, and that part where Mary, we'd see that, and of course, Mel Gibson was using Maria of Agreda as part of a springboard for that poetic license in the way he gave expression to the understanding of Mary, etc. And he would, he would show that that Mary was aware of what was going on when Jesus, uh, was suffering. Okay.

So, we've seen how Mary had to offer Jesus, and then Mary offered her very self along with Jesus in everything that is going to transpire now from this very Last Supper to the consummation. So then, third, we're going to take a look at where Mary begged the Father to allow her to share in all of Jesus' pains.

Now, we see glimpses of this once again in the 24 Hours of the Passion, but we see it mentioned so many times, so many times throughout the Book of Heaven. And in fact, just in a couple meetings before, the teachings before, I was reading from Volume 15 that really pointed that out, especially her sharing everything that Jesus did. Um, but let's take a look here on page 486. Um, oh, this is, I wasn't going to read this, but I will right now. And, and I gave you the picture of the whole page. So, um, look at the picture. It's kind of in a purple highlight. And, uh, so it says right here, "At the moment when the Savior separated Himself from the three apostles, Peter, James, and John, the Heavenly Queen separated herself from the other women and went into another room." Remember how I said that she was with somebody else? That's what it was. Just as Jesus was with the twelve apostles, she was with a few others. But then at this point, as Jesus now gets out, ready to go to the Agony in the Garden, she separates herself from them so she can be by herself with Jesus.

Um, "Upon leaving them, she exhorted them to pray and watch lest they enter into temptation. But she took with her the three Marys, treating Mary Magdalene as the superior of the rest, secluding herself with these three as her most intimate companions, she begged the Eternal Father." And here's the part we want to look at. This is the sufferings that she's asking. "She begged the Eternal Father to suspend in her all human alleviation and comfort, both in the sensitive and in the spiritual part of her being." So what is that saying? She didn't want to be comforted in any way. She's begging the Father, "Allow me to experience the exact same pain, suffering, emotions, all that my Son is suffering. May I go through it with Him. Don't suspend anything from me." She's begging the Father this so that nothing might hinder her from suffering to the highest degree in union with her Divine Son. Nothing, let nothing, nothing, nothing, Father, separate everything that He is suffering. I don't want to be shielded, comforted. I don't want to be numbed from the pain of anything of Jesus. Allow me to go through all with Him.

And it says, "She prayed that she might be permitted to feel and participate in her virginal body all the pains of the wounds and the tortures about to be undergone by Jesus." Oh my God. Can, can we understand what Mary is asking? I, again, it's like I say this so many times. It's easy for us to read these things and, and we feel like we're giving ascendancy to its understanding. But really, if I'm fully grasping every bit of this, I think I would almost pass out when I'm reading this. We do know how much Jesus suffered because of the Book of Heaven, because of the 24 Hours of the Passion. He was crushed under the weight. Crushed in the Agony in the Garden. He was made sin for all of us. He became sin, as the Prophet Isaiah said, for all of us. Do, do we remember what that means? It's not just that He bore the weight of our sin. He became sin. In other words, what permeated every bit of His body, soul, and spirit was nothing but the very depth of sin. So that He was horrified, horrified by the sin and the rejection of Himself and His Father. I don't know how else to say that, and it's best that I just not say that, but allow ourselves to let Jesus teach us what that meant, that He became sin. And the 24 Hours of the Passion does help us. We could go back to that. But she's praying, this is my point, that she might be permitted to feel and participate in her virginal body all the pains, all the wounds, all the tortures about to be undergone by Jesus. That even means this feeling of becoming sin. Wow. And feeling the hatred of every sin, every thought of every person against Him, of every rejection. And remember, that's the greatest pain that Jesus suffered, wasn't it? Yes, He suffered that. He suffered the sins themselves. But let's dig a little deeper. What is it about the sins that caused Him such suffering? Every sin is a rejection of God. That is what pained Jesus more than anything is a complete rejection of Him, an indifference towards Him, a lack of any care, a total rebellion, a disinterestedness. That is the greatest pain from a God who is all love and has done all things for us to be treated as simply nothing.

"This petition was granted by the Blessed Trinity, and the Mother, in consequence, suffered all the torments of her most holy Son in exact duplication, although they were such that if the right hand of the Almighty had not preserved her, they would have caused her death many times over." I know that you already know this from the 24 Hours of the Passion from the Book of Heaven. But how many times have we seen again Jesus revealed this to us that we know that not only Himself died and lived, died and lived, but that His Mother did also. And here, 400 years ago, this would have been considered insanity.

>> Okay.

>> By most theologians, really. In fact, at first, her works were put on, uh, on the Index. They were rejected. This is way beyond understanding. An understanding of a certain participation of Mary was understood by the Church. But do you realize what we're reading right here? This is divine will right here. This is divine will right here. This is saying that right here, had the Lord not preserved her, she would have had death many times over. And in fact, we know that she did. Dead, life, death, life, death, life, death, alive. Jesus tells us, Marie of Agreda. Mary is telling Mary of Agreda the same thing.

>> Yeah, it's very, it's, it's amazing. 400 years preceding the gift of the divine will.

>> Yes.

>> That we get a sip of knowledge with this much detail.

>> With this much detail. In fact, I think I told you guys one time, uh, early in my devotion to Mary, and so I was starting to grow in it and everything. And I, I had come across the Mystical City of God. And I, I'm sure that I told you that the first time I picked it up and was reading it, I took the book and I threw it across the room. This exact room, because I've been living here for 47 years. I'm sitting over here. I, that book, and I threw it over there towards, towards my books. And why did I throw it? Because to me, it was so far beyond the pale.

>> Yeah.

>> That I thought, this is blasphemy. This is making Mary a god or making her a goddess. I mean, I, what is it? Now I'm reading it, and I'm in love with her, and I'm trying to drink sips as much as I can to appreciate. But I thought, this is over the top.

>> Yeah.

>> But you see, God, in His goodness, because they both had planted that love in my heart, they knew I would react like that at first. They didn't give up on me. It would only be a couple weeks later, and I'd go get the book again, and I would start again. And

>> I didn't throw mine, but I had a lot of questions, but I marked mine up too, as along, and having read the Mystical City of God, it really helped me as I grasped the, the gift of living in the divine will. Having all that mystical knowledge before, you read the Book of Heaven, it's like, okay, this is, I've, I've done this. I've seen this before, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> It's beautiful. I want to bring up, I want to point out one thing real quick that I thought was interesting. It's a sidebar to the beauty that you're talking about, but,

>> I like how Mary, um, just after Jesus, um, uh, separated Himself from the three apostles, Mary has three friends.

>> Yes.

>> She secludes herself with three of her most intimate companions. And she begged them, uh, she, she told them to, um, pray and watch lest they enter into temptation. I thought that was very interesting. A parallel with Jesus, once again, in this inseparability of how this transpires, you know.

>> Yeah. And such a correlary or, um, of of sameness, huh?

>> Yeah. In fact, I erred because I said that she went into a room by herself. No, thank you for even pointing that out. She left a larger group of people and then went with these, uh, three, three friends, three companions, like Peter, James, and John. She has Mary Magdalene and whomever the others were, as she's replicating this same scenario that Jesus is going through.

>> "Pray and watch lest you enter into temptation." That's scripture.

>> Exactly.

>> Jeeoff, you and I get excited with this. And Ny, I know you do, too.

>> Oh, they're all excited. Some of them are just blacked out out there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so,

>> I don't mean to get you off track. You need to give that—

>> No, no, no, no, no. I was just thinking, was there something else, or does anyone thus far have any question or a comment? And please, you know, don't be shy at all. Yeah, Joan.

>> Very good. Keep going.

>> Okay. You're making sense and everything. Okay. Makes a lot of sense.

>> All right. Bless God. Bless God. Um, okay. So, now we've seen how she begged the Father to share in all the pains. Now, let's go. And this is the one. Now, we're coming to the fifth one, where she indeed did feel all the pains in everything that He, that He suffered. This was what, this was the one excerpt from the Mystical City of God that I did read in my talk. And in case we forgot, I mean, these five talks now have been from that little half-hour talk. And I did read this to to everyone.

>> And, um, so this is on page 544. Uh, let's see. Okay. So now Mary of Agreda is sharing with us everything now that Mary is going through. So I start that, uh, they cover the, so all of these affronts, all of these reproaches, and all of these insults that they were doing to Jesus. In other words, this is what she's going to reveal to us. Everything that was going on to Jesus after He was apprehended. So the, the Agony in the Garden is now over. He's been apprehended. And now there's, they're already starting everything of slapping Him and, and pulling Him down like on, on the way to the, the Cedrin stream, right? All of these affronts, all of these reproaches, all of these insults were seen and felt by the most holy Mary, causing in her the same pains and wounds in the same parts of her body and at the same time as inflicted upon the Lord. Can that be any more specific, Jeff? I mean, you know, we can say, well, she suffered all that Jesus suffered. Well, there's the biggest, broadest brush. And you could take that apart and say, well, that, okay, but, uh, how exactly do you mean that? Or in, in what ways? Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? I mean, um, in the same areas of the body, what, what exactly are you talking about here? We're going to get the exact understanding. I think it's interesting how sips of knowledge so long ago can enlighten even the writings in to give us more detail because in, in the, in the Book of Heaven, in our 36 volumes, in the Virgin Mary in the Kingdom and the Passion, we have that Mary suffered as Jesus suffered, but this sip of knowledge, much like Catherine Emmerick does, and other, uh, approved writings, just gives us a detail, more of an understanding. Everything that we can pull, augments and, uh, gives confirmation. Not that we doubt anything of the Book of Heaven. It just paints with a, with a more finer brush some information.

>> Yeah. Thank you. And that's what I was saying earlier. Not that these readings are validating the Book of Heaven. The Book of Heaven stands on its own.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> Praise God. It does. But how wonderful when we find these other revelations, insights, locutions, visions, writings by the mystics, how they have been part of the formation that led to where we're at today. And, um, I agree with you, Jeff, like, like you said earlier, it was in those early days when I had just started reading the Mystical City of God, and then off and on, I would go back to that. It was always that little germ of truth, and then something would sprout, then it didn't go any higher, and then later, then, then that little tree started to grow higher and then higher. But you're right, in that it formed me, as I know that it formed you.

>> All my writings in the books of, you know, in the City of God too, is,

>> doing what you were doing too, all those years back.

>> Yes.

>> Uh, just hooked, you know, it just, you just had to know more.

>> Yes. Yes. And when we were challenged to such a depth to believe when we couldn't be validated in anything else that we were reading in the church, or certainly hearing from the church, we would never hear anything like this, right? So we, we had to hold this little book and, and, and believe it as a little child, as, as the Lord wants us to do. And we just knew it in our heart. Even though I thought to myself, I don't think there's anybody hardly in this whole continental United States that aren't would accept what I'm reading, that think I'm loony.

>> Yeah.

>> But you know, there are a number of people, not a great number, but there, there have been. And so it did form us in a way to prepare us so that, yes, when we were reading in the divine will, that wasn't off the wall. That only dovetailed perfectly to what had already transpired before in helping prepare the way for us. So, um, it's just another post-biblical revelation. It's, it's just one of many that is these sips of knowledge. There are all kinds of them out there. We have to be careful, and you know, the Imprimatur's there, and the, the works are approved. Uh, so anyway, we just want to caveat that with this is not, uh, something that's just fly by night. This is, this is a, a proved work. Um, and of course, like you said, we always go back to the Book of Heaven, and, and, you know, but this is just beautiful. I love the way this is helping shape what we already know from the Book of Heaven,

>> and to see God giving us this beautiful testimony 400 years prior.

>> Yes. Yes. And I, I can't, um, say with certainty that I know this to be true, but I can only quote Father Peter Damian Beler, who was a Franciscan friar of the Immaculate, a wonderful Mariologist. I loved him. And, um, he shared that the work, the Mystical City of God, was, is the most sold spiritual book of all time next to the Bible.

>> Wow. I didn't know that.

>> And, and he cited how many editions have been in, in Spanish, French, German. He named these different countries of where multiple translations have gone since originally in the early 1700s or late 1600s. And, um, he says, "But there's only been one translation in English 100 years ago." Uh, and, but it's still standing for a hundred years. I think it was in 1914 that, uh, it was translated into English. And thank God that it was, you know, but, uh, so at least around the world, maybe we haven't seen in the United States such a fervor for it, but regardless, it doesn't matter. The book has the Imprimatur, the Nihil Obstat, the book is true.

>> Um, so, okay. So we see that, um, here again, like I say, or like Mary is saying, that the same pains, wounds, in the same parts of her body, and at the same time that Jesus did. And then she says, "The only difference was that in our Lord, the blows and the torments were inflicted by the Jews on Him. While in His most pure Mother, they were caused by the Almighty in a miraculous way." Well, that's what Jesus tells us in the Book of Heaven. She wasn't walking around bloodied.

>> She didn't have a, a crown of thorns on her. No, no, no. But she experienced within herself, in her interior, the same parts physically and the same pain. Um, they were caused in a miraculous manner and upon the request of the Lady. In other words, that's just hearkening back to her request that we read in the previous, that she asked not to be withheld from experiencing everything. And so the Trinity, it said, granted her that request. I would suggest that let us exalt the beauty, the love of our Mother even more than this. I would, this is me speaking, it means nothing, but my thought is, knowing the love of God, I believe truly that Mary would have been spared considerable of all this from the Father. Yes, I understand that the, that the Father, the Trinity decreed that she would participate in all things, but I personally don't think to the same exact degree. Otherwise, why do we have it in the Book of Heaven, or why do we have it here that Mary requested it, wanted it, begged not to be withheld from anything? In other words, let every bit of it come to me. This is very important. That was her complete self-emulation and an immolation. It was immolation is a holocaust, right?

>> Yeah.

>> An offering. Offering to death. A complete immolation. Nothing, nothing left. But I want everything of my Son. Everything she requested. That this was nothing imposed on her. You know, we, I, I passed something on that I think is, uh, relative to the, what we're discussing right now, that Father Dave answered for us about, did Jesus, uh, it came up the other day talking, and some people had questions about, did Jesus fear? Did He have fear? Was He afraid of the Passion? And the answer Father Dave gives us, of course, is, you know, no, because true love does, you know, love does not fear, has no fear. And the Blessed Virgin Mary, in the act of requesting this beautiful sacrifice, she never counted the personal cost. So she did everything with Jesus in the same, um, with that same, uh, it wasn't about how it was going to affect her. It was for us. It was for redemption. It was for the salvation of the world.

>> That's what makes her so beautiful. She's not divine. She's—

>> She's living in the divine will through grace.

>> And she's able to make this sacrifice, not counting the personal cost at all. It's all about the fruits. It's all about our salvation and, and suffering with her Son,

>> because she's living in this divine will in the fullness. Yes. True love.

>> Hail, full of grace. And so even biblically, when we see that in Luke 1:26, "Hail, full of grace." That Greek word, *kecharitomene*, meant one who is completely and totally filled, past, present, and future, with the very fullness of grace. In other words, it cannot be built upon. What Mary is, what God is by nature, Mary is by grace, right, Jeff?

>> Right. And,

>> and exactly what the Book of Heaven says, what God is by nature, Mary is by grace. In other words, the grace of God filled her to the point to so be the image and likeness perfectly of her Son, that we were created in that. But we're striving to get back to that.

>> Yes.

>> In, in, in the order, place, and purpose for which we've been created. And the more we respond with our "Yes" in the divine will, the more truly that image and likeness of God is absolutely being lived through us.

>> Yes.

>> With, with every one of our "Yes" in the divine will, submitting our human will to the divine, all of our acts, as we know, are becoming divine acts, not kind of divine, or sort of divine, or mostly divine, but truly divine. That is causing the continual transformation of us. Grace builds on grace. Like the Church has always said, this transformation of God builds on the transformation. The more we continue in the image and the likeness, the more of our becoming becoming Him. So we become a true partaker of the divine nature, which can only be understood in its proper sense in the divine will, right?

>> Peter gave it to us in Second Peter, chapter 1. Okay. But it's, it's understood fully in the divine will. So let me see where I am in all of this. Stay on. Okay. Good. Um, so, uh, to finish that last sentence or so. So, "According to very natural laws, the vehemence," in other words, the, uh, what's the other, well, I guess vehemence is the best word, "of her interior sorrow and anxiety would have put an end to her life, but she was strengthened by divine power so as to be able to continue to suffer with her."

beloved son and lord. So here we have that same teaching we were just looking at before. We looked at it before that there was death. She would experience like death and then live. Death and then live. And that's just saying it in a different way right here because her life continued, right? But according to natural laws, there's no way that she could have undergone this kind of interior sorrow or this kind of anxiety or this kind of suffering. It would have put an end to her life. There's no possible way. But it was strengthened by the divine power so she could keep going.

You want to talk about an intensity of suffering? We might think that if we came to that suffering enough, we would simply just pass out. And that does happen to people who experience sometimes an overwhelming physical pain. It will lead a person to pass out because the body cannot take anymore. And a person can and will pass out just for self-preservation. God did not allow that for Jesus or Mary. This pain, the sorrow, the suffering had to keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going. But it was the love for love's sake that Jesus desired it and Mary desired it. Just like Jeff said, to the glory of the father and for us and for our salvation. This is why there the two of them are doing everything that they're doing. This is why it said like it says in the 24 hours of the passion when Jesus took the cross, he kissed it. How could you kiss the cross? Because you know who you are, where you came from, and where you're going, and what you're here for. And so did Mary.

Okay. So, let's move on to number five. Mary remained steadfast to the end without ever wavering. So, this is on page 637. And here we'll get a glimpse of Mary now following Jesus. So we begin. The virgin mother walked very closely behind Jesus. So we're talking about the way of the cross here, aren't we? She walked very closely behind Jesus as she had desired and asked from the eternal father. So here again, many pages ago, we're looking back at this was her request. She wanted to do everything with Jesus. She was offering Jesus. She was offering herself. She was begging to share in all the pains. She felt all the pains in the same places. And now we're going to see to his divine will. She so conformed herself in all the labors and torments of her son.

Let's stop there for a minute. See those two words to his divine will. Now the church has always spoke divine will meaning the will of God. Yes. But we know that she was truly living in the divine will. She was no longer really truly only herself. She was in the sun, wasn't she? Just like Johan von Pelt in the 1500s when he taught Martin Luther. Mary was in Jesus suffering in Jesus. in him. She was more present to him than even to herself. So consumed in the other that she had no thought of self. to his divine will. She was so conformed in all the labors and the torments of her son that witnessing with her own eyes and partaking of all the sufferings of her son in her blessed soul and in her body. We're looking a lot at what she suffered in her body. Never never forgetting that the greatest suffering of what she suffered was in her soul, wasn't it? Because remember when at the presentation of Jesus in the temple and Simeon picks up Jesus and speaks the words of how he'll be a contradiction to the world. But what does he say to Mary? Your own soul a se a sword shall pierce. He didn't say of your body or your feelings, your emotions or you'll suffer. Your soul a sword will completely pierce. In other words, the deepest fiber of who you are, everything of who you are, your soul of the intellect, the memory and the will, your soul, a sword will pierce. So we just read in her blessed soul. That's the first word because that's the most important word. It's in her soul and in her body. But this soul of hers is suffering the most excruciating of pain. Because I believe and I think that most writers would say that the soul can actually suffer greater than the body. The body can undergo tremendous pain and then it'll shut down. The soul is the deepest part of us. Just look at just look at the look at the suffering of depression. If any of you have ever suffered at least some time in your life with with a painful depression for whatever went on, if you were under that kind of soul pain, I think you'd almost offer up any part of your body to suffer instead of that. Soul pain is the worst pain. and she's suffering both. The body has not been absent to every one of his sufferings. It's all been in the soul and the body. God, do we understand Mary? Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Jesus.

And here's the part I want to get to. She never allowed any sentiment or wish to arise whether from her in interior or exterior from within her soul or from her body which could be interpreted as regret for the sacrifice that she had made in offering her son. you see in this way of the cross that she's even going through now and we've already seen it start with with uh the last supper and now in all this 24-hour period we're going through and in this way of the cross she doesn't ex it says she never allowed one sentiment or wish to arise either within her soul or in her body which could be interpreted as a regret for the sacrifice she was steadfast to the And I mean she never wavered. She never turned back.

>> That that confirm that affirms that uh personal she never counted the personal cost.

>> Absolutely. That's right.

>> She never looked at self. She

>> Yes. Yes. And because of the commitment I I I think of this scripture many times. I love it. Luke 9:62. And Jesus is saying, "Therefore, whosoever puts his hand to the plow and then is caught looking back is not fit for the kingdom of God."

>> I've said that before in these meetings. Now, what that should be understood for us is that in other words, we stay resolute,

>> we stay firm in the conviction,

>> firm in the determination, firm in not wavering. Are we perfect? No, we'll fall. So, but we have our eyes always on the Lord. We We don't want to allow ourselves to walk with him and kind of keep looking back like we want to live in both worlds.

>> It's a good point you make because I believe in the Virgin Mary in the kingdom. Mary says walk forward. She's move she's go forward. You know, I seem to remember that and that ties in with scripture you just quoted. I never thought about that with looking back, you know.

>> Exactly.

>> Motion, movement, uh,

>> the kingdom is always verdant. Like I've said here, too, green, right? The kingdom is always going forward. I was thinking about this this morning when I got out of the shower. I don't know why I was thinking about it, but I was I was thinking to myself, you know, we never stand still with the Lord. It's an impossibility. We can't get to a place and say, "I'm comfortable here and and this is kind of where I'm at." You probably heard that before. I I'm I can't see anybody or their thoughts, but hopefully you've seen that. And and hopefully we realize that as much as we like to think that we can, we can't. And why is that? Why? Why if we allow ourselves to think that I can stay where I'm at and I'm I'm okay here or things are good. Why am I going backward instead of forward? Yeah. There's there's we all have the gift within our souls. We're constantly striving to know more and to grow, right? I mean, how can you I mean, you could turn away from that gift, but it's just natural to just want more and more. And you already said it. As it's revealed to us, we receive more grace and understanding, and as that's nourished, we want more and more and more. I mean, that's I'm just personally saying that. I don't know if that's the answer you want, but

>> Well, it's not where I'm going, and that's okay. And you're right. The more we're fervent and determinate in our conviction, then yes, that process is going like you say, but I would suggest most of us can admit that there are times where we kind of feel comfortable where we're at. And

>> though we're not making uh an explicit announcement to the Lord, hey, I'm fine now.

>> We just we're kind of coasting,

>> okay, in a sense. And we feel that that's fine. I'm not trying to bring something harsh on us with this. I I hopefully I'll get through this where it makes good sense. The the point that I'm making and the reason I'm thinking about it because it happened in the shower this morning and I found myself just saying that the kingdom is always burdened. Okay, let's let's put the two together then. Why can I not say, "Well, I'm I'm fine here and everything is uh copacetic right where we're at." No. The church and spiritual fathers would have us believe when we come to that point, we're actually going backward.

>> I was thinking to myself, but wait a minute, why is it really backward? And then all of a sudden, Jesus gave me the truth, the light. He spoke to me and said, "Because I'm always moving forward. The kingdom's verdant. If you're staying here, you're going back because we're going forward."

>> You're like in an escalator that you're you know.

>> That's right.

>> You're walking up an escalator that's going down.

>> Yeah. And I love the analogy, the thought that I had, I guess, because maybe sometimes though we don't we wouldn't like to think that we're objectively thinking this way, we're thinking of how we're growing with the Lord. And though we wouldn't like to give a thought about this, we're seeing how we're doing what we're doing with God for God in us. But there's a sense of me in all of this. Well, if my if my concentration is on that, it's wrong, isn't it?

>> God is always moving forward. And if I feel that I'm okay right here, I'm actually and if I if I not continuing to move forward with him, then in the perspective, I'm going backwards because Jesus is going forward.

>> Okay. I forget how we got on to all of that, Jeff, because it's true. What you did, what you do when you do that, you you buried your talent. You you were invested with a gift and you went and buried it.

>> You didn't invest it. You were and and we all know how that parable ended up. So,

>> that's right. That's right. That's right. We bury it or what we've done is we've we've wavered. We We're caught looking back.

>> Yeah. we're not moving forward anymore with the Lord. And this is this was the point. She never allowed any sentiment or wish to arise that could be interpreted as a regret for the sacrifice. So in other words, we want to keep moving forward with the Lord, not looking back, not wavering, but being steadfast of continuing with the Lord and letting him take us where he wants to take us.

>> And that's a continual dying and saying, "Yes, Lord. Yes, Lord. Let's go. I don't have the ability to do it. My yes is by my saying, I don't want to live with this human will. Lord, I want your divine will to be animating and living in me. And that's my yes. That's my ascendancy. That's that's my intentionality of what I want, what we want. And this go and this also goes back to that and I we got to sum up but because but the desire the desire has a different levels of desire and as you grow I if you're if you stay in one place you've lost your desire obviously if you're not moving forward and Jesus tells us in the divine will you have to have that desire and as you grow it has to be at a it has to reach a level where you'd rather die than give up.

>> That's right. And that that's going to keep you moving forward. If you don't move forward, you don't have the desire anymore.

>> That's right. Wonderful.

>> And you can't be in the divine will.

>> That's right. Wonderful. So, you said it better than I did. Thank you. Thank Thank you. And that's what we're seeing here with Mary and in this way of the cross. Never was anything did she allow anything to even give a suggestion that there was the slightest wish that she had not made the entire commitment that she had done complete and total. It would bear us well to relook at the movie The Passion again and watch Mary every step of the way. in light of what we're reading here in light of the book of heaven.

So the very last one and it's only just a sentence to look at let me see is uh on page 609 and it's to just illustrate this one point which is a great and wonderful final point for us to look at and that's this that Mary stands under the cross to the end. Okay. So, we just looked at how she remained steadfast and never wavered, right? We just saw all of that. She persevered. She persevered. But then the culmination here she is at the cross, the very fulfillment of everything that Jesus has come to do in Mary and the work of our redemption. Here we see the evangelist St. John tells us that near the cross stood Mary. And then it goes on, but that's all I wanted to read. There at the cross stood Mary. That's what John's gospel says. And I've heard wonderful teaching on this before. And that's probably why those simple words mean so much because also in the in the history of the church, there have been understandings. Some of this caught caught fire with um St. Bridget of Sweden, but she had a number of revelations. And with her revelation or what she saw at the foot of the cross, she saw Mary swoon.

>> You ever heard that word before?

>> That Mary swooned under the cross. In other words, meaning she passed out.

>> Passed out and then came to And there was even for a short time in the church a liturgy of Mary's swooning. It it caught the imagination in the heart of many Catholics. And remember St. Bridget of Sweden was in the 1300s. So this would have been in the middle ages when there was and the church had to say no and they took it took it out of the liturgy because no they did not believe it because they always held in sacred scripture and everything else that Mary stood at the cross. She didn't swoon. She didn't pass out because those words she stood at the cross enveloped emblematic everything that she came to this earth with Jesus for not not to pass out but in that firmst and in that finality she stands under the cross. That's why every image that we have uh every statue of uh of our blessed mother wherever mine is over here of of our lady at the foot of the cross she's standing. She's standing. Why? Because that that is the embracing of the fullness of the complete acceptance true to the end. So let's take that also as a comfort and as an encouragement that we have a strong mother. We have the strong woman who is not only co-redemptrics. She's mother to each one of us. And as the book of heaven says, she is mother in order to guide us, to lead us, to teach us, to form us into the divine will. She's a standing mother. She's resolute. She's firm and steadfast to the end. In everything that she participated with Jesus. I guess that brings us to the end. I don't want to end this. You know, we have a hymn in the church, the stabit mater. Have you heard of that? That's Latin for the standing mother. I think it goes back to the 1400s if I'm not mistaken. That's why on feasts of our lady of sorrows our mother of sorrows the sorrowful mother whatever stop it m is stop it standing mater mother mother is one of the most beautiful hymns I think it's something like 14 stanzas if I'm not mistaken it's it's lengthy it's beautiful

>> we sing it at the way of the cross

>> pardon me oh yes yes singing at during the way of the cross, right? Yeah. Many different ways, but it's liturggically been strong within our church for centuries. Um, but again, it shows her position. And when I imagine when I pray my rosary and I do it so in the divine will, I love when it comes to the crucifixion, the fifth mystery. And when we participate as we do in the divine will in these mysteries, I love to stand with Mary, but I stand with my arms around her. Praise you, Lord. Praise you, Lord. Praise you, Lord. We'll leave it at that. But thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord, for all that you have taught us in this series of just who Mary is for us. We thank you. Thank you. I don't have it in front of me right now, but I think I've mentioned this too. In volume 18, Jesus tells us the most important responsibility for all of us is to requite him for everything that he's done for us. And then I think it's I think it's in one Yeah. And then in volume 19, he tells us that we're to requite Mary for everything that she has done for us. So let's keep both those things in harmony always. You know,

>> I love you. Thank you for listening to me.

>> Yeah. No, we've loved this, Steve. Um, and I like that you ended here us on a beautiful note of and I think it's one that we need to reflect upon a lot is the strength of Mary, you know, the power of this blessed mother. Um, and every time we have a a learning like this, it's like you said, when we billocate, when we go back and stand next to her, we have so much more insight into who this mother of ours is and what she suffered and did for us.

>> Uh, and it's it's uh I like the thing about what maternal love is. I'm going back to the Virgin Mary in the kingdom. But it's so true that maternity says and means true love, heroic love, love that is content with dying to give life to the one it has generated. And that's what Mary is. That's that maternal love of this blessed mother of yours. You've really enriched us by giving us such a beautiful insight and I want to thank you for that. Does anybody else have any questions for uh for Steve or comments? Uh, because this does conclude this beautiful reflection uh on this five-part series.

>> Your passion is contagious. I just I think it's amazing that uh if she if she's she asked to suffer everything Jesus and she was able to actually physically walk with him

>> if she was suffering that.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, that's

>> you know. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

>> Well, I was just going to say well that was what you had said, Jeff. That's that the word you used that heroic love.

>> Yeah.

>> What is heroic love? Heroic love really is yes to the other which by definition means it's the death to self. Heroic love is love that is not interested in self but only in the other. That's the heroic love. I because I remember the first time I came across that in the book of heaven I was kind of wonder what's heroic love? We tend to think of being a hero somehow. No, no, no. The heroic love is the complete death to my want.

>> Yeah.

>> And the embracing of everything God wants.

>> It's the pelican that pierces her own heart to feed her little offspring.

>> It's it's this total sacrifice.

>> And you know, Father Dave talked a lot about in the past about Jesus dying without dying. And and Mary's dying without dying because she has a mission to do in the divine will. And God is keeping her and giving her that energy to take those steps forward. Whereas uh had she not been we know Jesus should have died in the agony in the garden with as much blood as he lost and all.

>> So it's a it's a mystical spiritual divine grace that she's receiving from God because she's going to be allowed

>> to stay alive through this process because she she has a God's will to to

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah.

>> Well, everybody, thank you so much for being here. Steve, as usual, we can't wait to hear your next uh topic that you're going to choose

>> uh for us. And you're always welcome. And we sure are glad you've made our group a home like this because