Truth About The Ball Python Market & Where Things Are REALLY Headed | The Recap NBB Live

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TUS 30 seconds TUS 20 seconds 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 One zero. Trap Talk Reptile Network. The coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 683. These are the recap. New Bri on the Block episodes. Return of DJ. Reptiles from Century, South Africa player, one of my favorite upandcomers, man. The youth is great in this hobby. And uh DJ's a great example of that. But yeah, you guys are in for a treat. I'm your boy MJ again. Like I said, hit that like button, okay? If this is your first time watching any of these episodes, if you're digging them, all right, be cool if you drop a comment in the comment section. Let me know what you dig the most. But if you're really enjoying these and you're not already, hit that subscribe button, smash that subscribe button, hit that notification bell, select all. you'll be reminded every single episode, especially if you enjoy these Monday night new breeder on uh New Breed on the blocks Monday nights with the one and only Biggie Top Gilder Reptiles. The villain or the bully? I don't know. We'll see.

>> Well, hey, the first show I ever showed up at, right, when they saw me, Bizzy gave me a nickname. He says, "The villain."

>> The villain.

>> Hey, whatever, man. You're living You're living up to that name for sure right now.

>> It's better It's better to be a villain than a Listen, listen listen. I have something to say. Call me anything but broke and lazy.

>> Yeah. Or irrelevant. Yeah. Facts. Listen. Mondays fresh off a weekend. You vended or no?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Same me.

>> Tell me about how it go. I'm always curious how your shows go. This is uh this one's kind of inconsistent. I've done it like this is the fifth time. Uh they added vendors, had to work harder than usual, still made money. Uh actually did pretty good.

>> Uh under the average, but I'll take it. And then today I had a residual sale. So I'll take it all day, bro. Uh I'm going to tell you this. Um we got to work. It's a little uh we got to work a little bit more than before. That's that's fairly obvious out there. So, uh um we just got to do it.

>> Um I also want to say, you know, I I can't really remember where you're at. I think you're you're done getting clutches or you still trick

>> I I should have another six or seven. But yeah, my season's been uh it was it was affected big time by the drought we had.

>> Yeah. Uh, the room was a little warmer probably and drier than than it probably should have been. I was very busy. Some girls needed the year off. Um, you know, the young girls, they go out at a much lower clip. So, yeah, I didn't get to where I thought I would get, but you know what? It's still solid. Still hit a bunch of foundational animals for myself. Uh, got the the clutch I was really looking forward to. Um well actually the three clutches I was really looking forward to um for me um and just building building for the future expanding a bit uh you know just uh pushing the needle. There's no other way.

>> So what what how many numbers of clutches are are you looking at this year then?

>> It's it's probably in the 57 range. Yeah.

>> Okay. Cool.

>> I was expecting

>> 77 80. You know

>> you hit 70 last year, right? 72 or something like that last year.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, maybe it's a blessing you didn't hit so much this year. Who? We'll find out.

>> I don't know. Yeah. We'll see.

>> Listen, I'm excited to have DJ back on tonight. Um I can't remember. I know I had him on the show. He He came on with us the first time, correct? Or no? No. Is this me and him?

>> Yeah.

>> So, this is my first This is first time bringing him on with you.

>> Yeah, I think he came on on Thursday night.

>> Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. Listen, um I admire, man. I like I'm big fan of like either men or women or young lady, young men's in this hobby who like are minded like this guy like business mindsets with it comes to reptiles because you don't see a lot of that but I don't know if you know this guy's background or how long he's been deep into this but it's it goes back to he's about 16 years old from what I heard and so to me he's like you know he's built differently um you know because when you obsess over this stuff you know even at that age and you have support like he's had his parents support since he was a kid, dude. Like he's [ __ ] really into this [ __ ] And so I I I love seeing this stuff, man, because you know, we all we always say that the future lies on the youth, you know, in the hobby. Um, and just to know that like in the next 20 years, like this I mean I don't want to still call him a kid, you know, because he's [ __ ] big. He's a big kid, I will tell you that much. But, you know, the dude, he's going to be in his prime in the next 10 20 years, you know what I'm saying? So, we're gonna definitely have a great episode tonight with DJ. Do you know anything about him?

>> I I don't know. I know he's got amazing animals. Um, we've been talking here back and forth for I'd say about a month. He's cool. He's really cool.

>> Uh, we we've become cool.

>> Um, I want to get to know a little bit more about him

>> and, uh, I mean, that's it. We, you know, the recap's going to be good.

>> Yeah,

>> you guys are in for a treat. I don't want to waste any time, you guys. You know, this is a special early episode, so we'll get right to it. Shout out to my man DJ for uh staying up for this episode cuz it's about midnight is time right now. So, let's do what we got to do to get our mind right and do what we got to do to stay hydrated for episode 683. The recap episode, new Bri on the Block, DJ Reptile for Centuries happening and coming at you right now. Let's go. Good.

>> You ready for do more in the future? Trap Talk podcastes.

>> Yes.

>> Only only Trap Talk exclusive.

>> Exclusive only.

>> So stop calling us the spot. Get the love it or not. I'm hot from the spot. Get the pop when I come up the spot. Get the club. When I come up the spot, get the club. When I come up the spot, get the club. When I come up, everybody, we do it. Everybody, we do it. Do it. Do it. Do it spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up with the club spot. Get the club when I come up with the club.

>> And we're live episode 683 with DJ. What is good DJ? Welcome back, buddy.

>> How are you guys doing tonight?

>> Doing well.

>> Yeah.

>> Not here yet.

>> Yeah. Well, it's it's early morning here at US, so but yeah, thanks for you guys for having me up on on the show again. I I really appreciate the offer.

>> Yeah, man.

>> Yeah, dude. I appreciate you just freaking killing it over there, man. Like, I I I got to say like, you know, you you've been very consistent ever since I brought you on the show and and I feel like things are just looking up um every every year for you. I mean, how how how are things been? Let's just catch up on that.

>> Yeah, things have been good. Um like um I think yeah this last couple of months has really been much better with the animals as well in terms of you know sales and people coming into into the trade or into the hobby again. I think uh slowly but surely you know getting to the point where it's um stabilizing in a sense um you know which is great you know cuz I think there was a lot of breeders and people came into the hobby that wasn't really how can you say in it for the animals in a sense.

>> Yeah. And um you know the hobby in a sense works not works them out in a sense but you know um they just realize you know it's not necessarily the right trade for them or the right hobby and you know we go on and the new passionate keepers come in and we ignite the flame so it's all cool and um so far so good. I mean the breeding season is going well. Um, our seasons are a bit opposite or our season is opposite to the USA ones. So, we're only starting to get clutches now and um, should hatch babies from October till I'd say March of 2026. So,

>> nice.

>> All exciting and exciting projects ahead.

>> Yeah, busy. Um why don't you refresh us exactly um the age you were where you were buying stuff here from America and really investing like next level stuff that's happening for you right now obviously because I feel like you're getting the rewards of your investments from that that time because that that's why you have time. So do you remind me how old you were and all that and like you know how how all that went down.

>> So yeah I'm actually turning 24 next year January. So um

>> you're older than I thought but you don't look that old.

>> Yeah. So um I feel some some days a bit older than what I am honestly. Um

>> but um yeah I started very young you know it's um you know like everyone just keeping a few reptiles and you know just um keeping different species trying to see what you know what I like and what I'm into. And um then in 2013 I actually established or um you know started with reptiles for centuries and that's where I really started to breed the animals and you know get into um you know especially ball pythons and ball python genetics and um I would say from probably 2017 is when I really uh started to take it more serious in a sense of um breeding animals um a bit on a larger scale than let's say um you a general hobbyist or whatever. And um yeah, you know, since I'd say probably from 2020 um is when I really started to to see a huge influence in the collection and you know, the projects that we are doing.

>> Okay. I I got a big topic for you and me though, feel free to step in anytime because I you know, one of the things I'm excited about talking to uh DJ about is like him being young and he's already seen different styles of the ball python market. like he's obviously was precoid covid and now here. Um, you know, it's unfortunate, but also it is what it is. You know, you got people that are just, you know, you talk about the people where it's not meant for them and and they're just kind of on their way out. Well, not everyone's on their way out. They're sticking around. They're complaining and they're bitching and they're [ __ ] trying to create little narratives in certain podcast areas where they're making it seem like what we're doing isn't worth it and that it's like almost a sham. I want to ask what your experience been, DJ. Like can we talk about like do you feel like ever since you were investing into the ball python market um and not that being pitched pipe dreams doesn't happen because we all know depending who you're talking to some of these [ __ ] will lie to you. It's just it's it's the name of the sales game. But

>> do you felt like you were taking advantage at all or do you feel like you there were times where you had to like maneuver carefully being in the hobby and then obviously because at the end of the day it it's black and white. There are people out there who will leech into new people like you and just [ __ ] almost run you out. But I want to know how you delegate all that.

>> Yeah. You know, I think um like we all, you know, once once we start start out with the reptiles, we all in a sense get a bit taken advantage of, you know, especially if you're not so I would say clued up, you know, especially for me being a bit younger in a sense as well. You know, you need to um in a way stand your ground as well. So um I think you know over the years you know the market like you said has changed uh tremendously in terms of you know it's been through some great periods and it's been through some really difficult time periods and I can tell you now um this last couple of years hasn't been the worst years that I've seen. you know, there was a time, especially 2018 and 2019, you know, where honestly, you know, um I had to sell most of my animals or my breed of animals, you know, just because just to keep a float. Um and I must say now, you know, it's to the case where um that doesn't necessarily need to happen, you know. So now I think I think another another huge difference is, you know, just um you need to go through the motions as well. And that's what I tell everyone as well. You know, it's it's a long-term thing and it's not a short-term um you know, investment in a sense. So, I think if you go through the motions and you stick it out like you said, you will get somewhere at the end, you know, um where you want to be in a sense.

>> Yeah. And then Amelia, obviously, same with you. You, you know, 20 years deep in the game. Um, do you think what he said is right? Like as far as like almost growing pains in a sense which never ends like you just talked about having a off year cuz your weather you have to learn to to adapt to stuff like that, right Alio? Like it's a part of what we do.

>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You have to adapt to everything. You have to adapt. I mean, you constantly have to evolve to everything. I mean, or or adjust. Any little adjustment can help you. Um,

>> yeah.

>> I I don't know what else to say. Like what I can tell you is that some of these people uh they don't know anything about the game anymore. They are speaking on, you know, they were they were doing this 20 years ago. Uh we've been through three or four or five different incarnations since then, right? Uh, the market is, I'd say probably easily, just to hypothetically throw you a number, it's probably 30 times bigger than what it used to be. You know,

>> there's a worldwide market now. Um,

>> people that are taken advantage of, I feel like they they're running and they're not asking for help from people that have really been doing this a long time. honest people, people that uh can genuinely help them and lead them the right way. They sometimes they don't want the help. So to say that most are taking advantage of others is just it's it's disingenuous. It's it's not right, you know.

>> Well, I mean, it all goes down to like you knowing who you're doing business with because if you're doing business with the right person, they will set you up for success for success. I know firsthand where if you're able to take care of somebody, they'll come back and buy more snakes from you. Hello. Okay, that's just kind of how it works. And if you're doing that type of behavior with multiple people, you're going to have customers to where when shit's going down, they still want to give money to you because how much of the honest business that you have with each other? Um, but let me ask you one thing, DJ. Like, if you and I became friends on Facebook or on Instagram, um, does that mean you have to buy snakes from me because we're friends? Like does that is it smart? No, not at all. Like and that's the thing like a lot of these people, not a lot, excuse me, but some people feel like they're they are owed to buy snakes with their associates at their friends on social media with and that animal might not even be right for them, but they just feel

>> they almost feel guilt tripped into having to do it. And I'm like, dude, this is not how the game is ran. You know what I mean?

>> No, I'm just saying.

>> Go ahead, let me say

>> Yeah. Sorry.

>> Go ahead, DJ. I just I want I have a good example after DJ.

>> All right, go DJ.

>> No, but I do agree with Emilio and um what he also said in the intros, you know, I think it's a bit like harder now in a sense to um not sell, but I think you need to put more effort in and which is actually a good thing because I think there's a lot of people producing plenty of great animals, you know, worldwide. I mean um

>> you know I was recently also in Thailand and you know the stuff that Asia is producing is um I promise you it's some of the stuff is competing or or beating you know stuff that's being produced in Europe and the USA you know so I think there's huge growth and um to your point MJ I think you know just because you

>> reached out to somebody or you communicate with somebody on Instagram doesn't mean you need to necessarily buy an animal from them you know it's like Um, we're all in the same community. So, I mean, if we can help each other grow, I think that's at the end of the at the end of the day the biggest thing in my opinion as well.

>> Yeah. Because you want to avoid making purchases you regret. That's all I'm saying, you know, because you I don't know how many times I bought a snake thinking like, "Oh, that's a good price." Or, you know, again, always wrapping my head around price versus if I really need that snake or not. Like if that snake is something you really need, you know, obviously the price is something you should consider, but you know, you'll [ __ ] figure it out. Go ahead, Amelia. I'm sorry. I don't I know you got something to say.

>> All right. Well, the Asian market, what we need from those guys is for them to grow that Asian market within. We need also you to grow that South African market also that extra those extra European countries. But that's not where I was going. I just didn't want to forget that. Um, look, for instance, I have now my V-Unit and I have my Patreon, right? I have two tiers. I have uh staying power and and one more that I forget the name of it, right? So, I have a Patreon, a patron. Guess what? I didn't get him to buy animals from me immediately, okay? I didn't push my animals on him, okay? I checked his whole collection and got him exactly what he needed for his projects. Not from me, from someone else. That is the type of [ __ ] we need in the game. We need people that are going to be honest. I don't necessarily need one of my Patreons to buy all my snake, all my snakes. I don't need that. Okay. So, that is what we need in the game. We need that honesty. We need people that are going to help people make good decisions. All right. And not, you know, me me, not me me. It's that simple.

>> So,

>> 100%.

>> You know, that's that's what I did. That's the type of [ __ ] that I do. And I think that's the type of [ __ ] that MJ does as well. And and I'm pretty sure DJ, you you know, if something doesn't make sense, you tell your customer, right?

>> Yeah. 100%. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's easy, you know, like you said, you know, it's easy to sell something to somebody or not easy, but it's easy to sell something if it's got no purpose. And in my opinion, you know, it's like you need to, like you said, look at the customer first and what what they're working with. You know, you you can't just sell them something that doesn't necessarily fit into their collection. And I think the Patreon is a great thing, you know, with the different guys doing it as well because everyone's got a different perspective and that's a great thing about the reptile industry in a whole, you know, especially with the ball pythons, you can take it to your own own niche as well, you know, to your own liking in a sense.

>> Stuff has to make sense. That's another thing we're it no one is belittling anyone's anyone's collection. It's just telling people where they should go. Helping people to where they should go to may maybe a less saturated uh you know end. You know what I mean? That's it.

>> That's all it is.

>> I think we just got to remember like just like anything else in life, there's levels to how serious you want to be into this, right? There is just like, hey, I'm here to [ __ ] like some pics, hear some podcast, and love my one animal. God bless. We need We need more more people like that. We need all levels of this. But guess what? When it comes to podcast episodes on this [ __ ] Monday night, Tuesday, or Thursday, we're serious. We are serious. Okay? And I'm sorry if you're not that serious about what the [ __ ] we're talking about, but get the [ __ ] off our dick if we want to be [ __ ] passionate and serious about what we love to do. What's the problem with that? What What's the problem with being serious about this? What's the problem? I have to say the problem though. But no, what's the problem? What's the problem with being serious about this?

>> No. What's the problem with helping people even if you got to hurt their feelings in the short term?

>> Well, helping people who want to be serious about it, too.

>> Tell the truth.

>> What's wrong with the truth?

>> What is wrong with wanting to help others who want to take this [ __ ] serious too and change their [ __ ] lives? Look at this kid, dude. He does not have a typical life for a 24 year old. What's wrong with wanting that? It's possible. It's not for everybody, but it's [ __ ] possible. What's wrong with wanting to have success in life and not be a part of a [ __ ] sore loser club?

>> Okay, who the [ __ ] wants to be a part of a sore loser club, dude? Holy [ __ ] It's It's not a crime to want to be successful in the reptile hobby. News flash. My bad.

>> DJ DJ,

>> let me ask you this.

>> As long as you're hitting at a super high average, you're swinging for that fence, aren't you?

>> For what? In terms of what? Let's say let's say let's use a baseball analogy. All right. If you're swinging at a very high average, right?

>> Yeah.

>> You're swinging for that fence every time, right?

>> 100%, man. 100%. You know,

>> what's wrong with swinging for the fence, bro?

>> Every bat matters to us. That's what That's what we're What's wrong with the fence, bro?

>> What's wrong with the game? Hey. Hey. What's wrong with not wanting to be a spectator and be actually in the game? You know what's crazy? Tell me who doesn't want to swing for the fence.

>> Okay. There's nothing sexy about bunts.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Nothing.

>> What are your crack? What are your cracker jacks from the nose beds? Let the players play. Shut the [ __ ] up.

>> Yeah. And I think it's important like you said, I mean, if you're not, you know, especially I think it's great like the example you guys made as well with the different tiers. I mean it some people just want to enjoy the animals and keep a couple of let's say snakes in terrariums or um PVC enclosures or whatever the case is and that's perfectly fine as well because we need all stages of hobbyists. I mean we all started off like that and I always say you know unfortunately the snakes are also like some sort of addiction you know you need to like really be careful and to decide on what numbers you want you know decide beforehand what you want what you need or what is your goals that you want to achieve I mean even with my collection now I'm to the point where I don't want necessarily more animals I want to actually if possible cut down over the next years and just increase the like how can you say the quality of the animals we're breeding and you know indirectly um just work with the the projects that I want to work with you know I think that's the most important as well don't follow follow the norm and do what everyone else is is doing you know because it's easy then to be left behind I mean if you're going to do what everyone else is doing you know you're just following the masses and at the time you'll just follow them you know so I think it's better to to do also your own unique twist and try to see what extra um flame you can add to to the combos. I mean indirectly we all working on the same projects but we can just do it a bit differently in a sense.

>> Yeah. Um I just and to speak on that DJ like you know obviously I feel like when you are looking at ways to become better that's all that matters to you is finding ways to become better and it's either with the projects you're working with what you're trying to do the next five six years and you know I've always talked about like that mentality that you need to have is not this year this year is already done. You should be thinking what the [ __ ] going down in 2027 and 8. And I feel like, don't you think that's been true to what you've been doing this entire time? I mean, think about how quick time flies. Okay, I'm sure if you blink your eyes, you can remember being 16, but now you're 24, dude. You're [ __ ] 24 who really carries himself like it's [ __ ] like he's in his 30s easily. You know what I'm saying? But like, isn't your mind constantly just down the future all the time in this [ __ ]

>> Yeah, I've got to be honest with you. like you know like even barely now before we did this B podcast you know I'm constantly I have a busy with the snakes or doing something which is um you know trying also to you know like you say grow grow my brand and grow myself you know in a sense you know I think it's it's very important you know from a I'm I'm very fortunate and blessed to to be in this position at a young age and you know I think um my goal is just to you know stay stay not stay where I'm at but just constantly try and grow and evolve um with what we are doing and you know like you like Emmelia also said growing the hobby both internationally and locally you know I think um especially locally like there's a good like a big misperception about snakes and I think um slowly but surely we can actually convince people actually that you know these animals are actually fantastic pets to keep and also you know it does take away a lot of stress as well you know from your daily job or something that you you've got busy in the life, you know, the animals can help you, how can you say, have a calm effect with that as well.

>> I mean, dude, I always say I mean, again, as serious as we take it, this is still our happy place. Like, this is like it's crazy because I get it. Like, we probably come off like, holy [ __ ] Like, these guys are so intense about what they do. Are they having fun? Yes. 100,000 10%. This is my life. This is Amelio's life. This is D. What's crazy? Finally, three guys who do this for a living. This is the best [ __ ] life I've ever could wish for. I'm telling you right now. I'm not just pitching you guys nothing. Dude, do what the [ __ ] you want with the information I'm telling you. Podcasting, keeping reptiles I love, and taking care of my family, and [ __ ] giving it all to God. That's what I'm about. I don't give a [ __ ] about nothing else. And I'm sorry, but that is my tr I'm getting [ __ ] My the hairs of my arms are standing up. I [ __ ] love this [ __ ] And that's all it is, dude. I'm a very passionate person as people know. But when it comes to something I love and something that's changed my life, dude, come on, bro. You ain't going to [ __ ] with this. Good luck. I will stand up for this all day, every day. And guess what? I have the energy all day, every day. You know what I mean? But dude, Alio, do you love your life or not? DJ, do you love your life or not? Can we

>> I will do this for the rest of my life.

>> That's it.

>> Period. Period.

>> And not everybody can say the same. Sorry.

>> And I'm gonna say this. I I love it. It with all with everything in me, right? So, I'm living a dream. And I want to say on top of that, on top of that, who are we? All right. To say that there can be another Emilio, another MJ, another DJ, another Bob, another Justin. Yes, the odds are against you, but no one can tell you you can't do it.

>> Nobody. No one can tell you%

>> that you can't sell.

>> Especially a nobody can tell you you're about to be a nobody.

>> Nobody can tell you.

>> No one that tells you that you can't do something. It's because they suck and they didn't do it.

>> I never had

>> [ __ ] They were a [ __ ] bust.

>> A [ __ ] loser.

>> Dope. So pl there's people out there that since they couldn't do it

>> Yep.

>> they think you can.

>> Cook.

>> Yeah.

>> Tell them. So, so, so what I would say is you don't need people like that in your life.

>> No, you don't.

>> You know how many people told me when I left my employer, you sell snakes?

>> You're you. When I told my district manager that I made more selling snakes than at work, and I made good money at work, I made good money at work, guys. Okay? I made really good money. When I told him I made more money at selling snakes, his eyes got this big. And I he probably didn't believe me.

>> I'll be right.

>> So after that after that comment, he said, "Oh, why don't you stay? You know, I I'll give you a lower position." I said, "Why the hell would I do that?"

>> He didn't believe me.

>> So no one believes that this stuff could be done. Is it hard? Yes.

>> Okay. It's not easy. Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> In my view, I think people have to sell every level. for the most part to make it. Some people disagree with that and that's fine. We all have our way and our opinions. All right. I feel like people need to breed rodents. All right. I feel like you have to have, you know, different different ways to make money. Um, that all combined into one. But to say that people can't do it, bro, you sound like, bro, like that's that's unamerican to me, you know? I mean, sorry, I know you're in South Africa, but you know you know you know how we talk the American dream

>> and everyone is is is you know, we're in America. We have a million opportunities.

>> Yeah.

>> And u

>> I I think that's that's [ __ ] hogwash. I think that's [ __ ]

>> So if where you know there's a lot more look how many how many teams make the playoffs let's say you you know you have 35 teams you know about eight teams eight to six teams make the playoffs whatever it is you got a lot more people upset than a lot of people win so what happens you know you rally the people that are upset and you know it is what it is

>> yeah no I agree with you I think you know like you said um you know if you put your mind to it I think you can make anything happen, you know, especially if you've got a passion for what you're doing, you know, and um you enjoy what you're doing and like you said, it's it's not easy. I mean, um plenty of times, you know, you go through hardships with the animals, you know, um you know, for instance, back in 2023, I bought a a monsoon male that passed away within, you know, a couple of couple of weeks. And honestly, you know, that was a huge um how can you say shock for myself as well, you know, because it just made you realize, you know, you're still working with live animals. Um,

>> so you know, you take it up in the chin, you know, and you you go back to working with the animals and then you actually realize why you're doing it, you know, you're doing it for firstly the love of the animals and because you're enjoying it, you know, and like you said, I think there's nothing wrong doing what what you love, you know, and if you can make it a how can you say a profitable profitable business or something like a hobby, I see no reason that there's something wrong with that. And to your point as well, like you said, um there's always going to be people which is not um happy with what you're doing. Uh but as long as you're true to yourself and you know what you're doing is correct in a sense, then I think um you know, that's the most important thing as well.

>> Yeah. Um yeah, man. There's definitely loss um in in in your collection sometimes. Uh I've gone through it, everyone has. Um there's loss in value. Obviously, that happens, but at the same time, you know, people I I've said this before, people aren't counting their holdbacks as as uh uh pretty much, I guess you could say, income uh or or taking it off, you know, what they've spent because when you keep an animal, you're buying an animal from yourself at the end of the day.

>> Um those animals have to be bred in a certain way where you're optimizing your future. So to me, I think that as long as you do it right, there isn't, you know, and you have a great work ethic and you're not, you know, super negative and depressed and always thinking the the earth is going to fall on you. I mean, or or crush you, I think you're going to be fine. I mean, again, if you need help, ask honest people for help. Ask people that have done this on a real level, you know? uh like you you have plenty of international

>> um uh experience like you're one of those guys people should go to when it comes to the international game, you know what I mean? I mean, you have great experience with that. You have amazing animals. I think people should be should be messaging you and asking you for for tips and and help here and there, you know?

>> Yeah. And like you said, I think there's nothing wrong with with asking, you know, asking people, you know, for like you said, a bit of advice. um you know and bouncing ideas off each other. You know, I think that's why the reptile community is so great as well. And like you said, it's our responsibility to help aid the community as well if if they're steering off the wrong path or whatever, you know, if you can try and assist them to make better choices in a sense of whether it's buying animals or um you know, looking at their projects or whatever it is, you know, just trying to help them also out cuz I, you know, I also feel like you said there's um a lot of great guys that's willing to help in this industry. um you know and I mean there's no harm in asking you know for a bit of advice or um you know something just to to help you also in your your journey with the reptiles and um especially with the ballp.

>> Yeah, let me let me say this as well now that MJ's back real quick. Um, listen, you don't have to pay for a Patreon, but I will say this. A Patreon will pay for itself five to 10 times over. Okay? I promise you that the right Patreon will pay for itself 10 times over if that if that person or that that uh you know let's say Bob and Josh or or myself or MJ or who you know there are pl plenty of others those Patreons pay for themselves tenfold trust I'm telling you so

>> y

>> and again if it doesn't make sense to you then it you're not taking it that seriously. And that's fine. Don't So if there's You can't really expect quality information if you're just [ __ ] going account to account asking the same vanilla question because guess what? We get asked the same questions all the [ __ ] time, you know? And some of these questions can't really be answered in a simple text conversation via DM, you know? Like, and mind you, the more questions asked, the more deeper the questions or answers that you need to answer. So, you need to really consider like, all right, if I'm trying to really find answers to this, this, and that, dude, why not pay for that information? Why not? Why not just just so you know, you're not going to get [ __ ] around? Because guess what? You will get [ __ ] around with some of these people who won't be straightforward with you. And again, I was I always talk about my example how I had this guy telling me um that females would eat after ovulation, and that was a normal thing. And and I remember thinking I had this girl the gravit almost a full year posting every [ __ ] shed as a pre-lay shed and I was a [ __ ] idiot, you know, mind you only because I was being told that and then I my mind's open like oh my god. So either way I'm just saying this especially where we're at 2025. Um I will say a lot of the information that you really need to know basic stuff, it is all out there. It's all all over YouTube. Uh but the struggle with the game right now is cool. You produced a cool animal. You held back what you want to held back. What are you going to do with the rest?

>> Can you sell it? Can you sell it? Because guess what? Breeding is the easy part of this. Anybody could [ __ ] breed a ball python. And I I'm pretty positive I'm about to have Leo maybe pair his first pairing. I'm not joking. My kid's not even three. And I'm pretty confident he could [ __ ] pair right now. But what I'm saying is there's a reason why that's the easy part. You know, it's about who do you have following you that wants to spend money with you? like who who who's passionate about what you're passionate about and that to build that takes [ __ ] time. Okay,

>> people aren't going to buy into your passion over the first [ __ ] year, especially just because if you buy money with them. Another thing, dude, money does not guarantee [ __ ] You're not owed anything just because you spent a lot of money with somebody. Okay? And and I think I feel like people spend money to get self like they they want pat on the backs right away. You know what I'm saying? Like they almost want like some sort of like clout like, "Okay, I should have a stamp in this game cuz I dropped 100k." No, doesn't work like that. I'm sorry. You're not the only [ __ ] dingleberry who's done that.

>> You know, I'm not calling you a dingleberry. [ __ ] I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying like money doesn't guarantee any success. And I feel like, you know, you have a lot of these people who are checking out where they they thought they're scratching their head thinking, "God damn it, like that money was good for a second." And the thing is, it probably still is okay. It just isn't what it was. And for the fact that it's not what it was, it's enough for people to check out, which is crazy to me because a $1,000 snake is a $1,000 snake. That's a lot of money.

>> You can figure out like that's like if you get a few of those going, hello. You know, but people were used to just setting up shop at a show, clearing 30K, and they're good for two weeks, and they'll do it again in two weeks, make another 30K, and another 30K. And it's just, dude, no. The show game is I won't call it dead because he's making it happen. Other people I know are making it happen at a show. It's just not it's not a lay me out thing no more. It's it's it's it's like chess, you know. You got to move.

>> Yeah. And I think like you said, I think the most important is um like indirectly is like to market yourself, you know, like you said, it doesn't help you produce amazing animals and you're not trying to put yourself out there. I mean, um social media is a great thing, but it's also a terrible thing if you if it used wrong. But I mean you can use it to your benefit and um use it to the max exposure in a sense. Um so I think the most important now is um is to market yourself and market the animals. I mean yes the animals will speak for themselves but they need to also reach the certain um target market in a sense people wanting to buy those animals you know and I think now there's you know access to Instagram, Facebook, um YouTube you name it. I mean, even the Patreon, like Emilio said, I think the Patreon is a great thing, you know, especially if there's a certain breeder or certain individual that you like following closely. I mean, then if you want, you know, more information and to know what they did to, you know, reach the certain projects or goals or whatever, you know, like you said, then you need to try and get some information or valuable information from them. And I mean, that's a great thing about Patreon. I think the guys put themselves out there to to give the guys the exposure for, you know, the future guys in the industry as well.

>> TJ, let's talk let's talk a little bit about you you building um a repeat customer base that supports you because I know you you have that. Let's talk a little bit about that.

>> Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, from the start, um, I've always believed, you know, like, um, you know, just to try and, like you guys said, be transparent. You know, I always say the projects that I sell is the project that I that I work with, you know, on a, um, year on end. So, I think the most important is just to build trust over time with the customer as well. Um, make sure that they know, you know, that you're also there for them, whether it's with their projects or when they want to invest into another animal. I always say you don't have to necessarily buy snakes from me. Um if there's a great opportunity on a some something else

That works for your projects. I'll tell you honestly if it's worthwhile buying or not, you know. If it's not, then, uh, we look for different alternatives.

Um, and to your point, you know, as well with the, um, international markets and all of the international customers, you know, back when when I started, you know, in 2017, really breeding like, let's say, a handful of clutches. I always did, prior to that, let's say from 2013 to 2016, I did like under 20 clutches a year. And then, um, 2017, I actually did, I think it was 67 clutches. And I just realized, you know, that year that it was too, too quickly to expand, um, you know, into so many clutches. It wasn't the wisest decision. So the next couple of years, I actually cut it a lot back and I only produced under 30 clutches. And in those two years is when I really started to work on, you know, building international clients and international customer base.

And, um, my first ever, uh, client that I actually got internationally, you know, I reached out to him, you know, I said to him, "Listen, we're based in South Africa. We breed, um, you know, ball pythons and we've got quite a different variety." And that's how, you know, I really started with the, how can you say, like international clients and, you know, yearly it looks like we get a new, new market as well. Um, I think there's some new potential growth in, um, you know, like the United Arab markets as well with the ball pythons. I think that will probably catch on in the next couple of years, which is exciting for all of us, you know, because it's a new, um, how can you say, new, not new industry, but a new, um, region to also market ourselves and get into those markets, you know, and see how their hobby grows in a sense.

"They've got some nice disposable income there. I'll tell you that." When did you, when did you start or have you? I'm, I'm sure at this point you've been selling stuff back to America, right? Or not yet?

Yeah, so we do, we do, um, since I think like 2021, we've been selling back to the US. So we've actually had quite decent sales over the last, uh, three years to the US. It is a bit more difficult in terms of, you know, the shipping and, um, not us physically being, you know, in the US. I think that's the, the hardest part. But we've tried to set up now two, uh, morph markets. So we've got like a USA morph market and a South African morph market to try and see if, you know, that helps generate more sales in the US. And, um, so far so good. You know, I think we had, we had two shipments to the US this year and around 50 animals that went, uh, to the States, which is, in my opinion, still a great number.

Yeah. I mean, I always say like, if you're able to like get into this and then let's say not even your first year, but eventually at some point start selling stuff back to the people you buy it from, like, dude, that's that's awesome. Like, if the person that you're originally buying from is now your customer, you're off to a good start. Like, you're, that's that's kind of like what most people don't ever get to because to make that kind of stuff, it ain't going to be cheap, but it's not easy either. You got to wait it out and the and the pairings have to go your way. I mean, I found out this year just because you have what you have doesn't mean you're going to hit what you need to hit. It's like, it's difficult, man. Like these double recessive, triple recessive [ __ ] with incomplete dominance that you need, dude. They're hard to hit. They're not that easy. You know what I'm saying?

Um, but also like, did we talk about this earlier, Alio, in the chats, you and I and Christa, about numbers? Like, if you had more females, you'd probably be better off, right, with certain projects?

Oh, yeah. Because you never know. Like me, I just hit, um, I just hit an Aantic DG. Um, I'm sorry, an Aanthic head DG. I hit two Exantic Head DGs. Pos Clown, right? I have to test them. But they're [ __ ] males, you know? I, you know, I was hoping one would be a girl. So, I have a better pairing obviously is coming, but [ __ ] that's like extra, you know, a little bit extra whip on on top, you know. And, uh, now, now it's two males and more than likely those, if they test, you know, those are good animals, but again, if that was the only pairing, I'd be in trouble this year, you know. So again, you have to, I feel like you need more animals.

Um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's, it's a difficult one, you know, because even if I look at my projects, you know, every year you start a, a new project and you like, um, you know, you need, like you said, you need multiple animals, especially for the triples and the quad recessive projects. I mean, I started the, the Ultram Clown project in 2017 and I was only able to hatch my first Ultramar clown in 2021 at the end of 2021, you know, and that was, I think, three or four clutches into the project. Um, so it takes a lot of animals or a lot of different animals also in the projects and every year you get something like you said now, of the Exantic double DG clowns or Exantic DG Poset clowns. They just put you a step closer to where you want to be, you know, but, um, there's a lot of steps that you need to take in order to get there as well.

And then at the end of the day, this is simple. If you don't have the space, right, to have, let's say, I don't know, eight to 10 animals for a project, then guess what? You have to spend a little bit more to get more power. That way, you don't have to have the extra animals, right? There, there's a way to do this for everybody at the end of the day. Yeah. So, you have less space, you have to spend a little bit more. You could spend more and and have the extra animals. It's all up to you. There's no wrong way. Uh, but yeah, but there is a wrong way too, which sucks. Like what I mean by that is like, if you're not like, if you don't have the right [ __ ] that you're holding back first and foremost.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I meant is you could do it with less or more. It's up, it's up to you, you know? Right. But don't. Yeah. The results are different for sure. Um, yeah, or as far as the odds, you know, and and how that's what that was my biggest like gut check, man. Like was when I sat back and I was like, "Holy shit." Like, I'm going to need a lot more wall space. Like I'm gonna, and I'm like, you know, I'm not sacrificing none of this [ __ ]. It's going to be the opposite. So I was like, "God damn." Like a lot of these females I had plans for, like I can't, like I need the space. They got to go and my whole backs need to go there and, you know, but it was fine because that made me realize I had a lot more than I needed or a lot more than I was trying to even breed to begin with.

So another thing too, like, how many times already do you feel like DJ that you've had to like consider? I know you mentioned a little bit not too long ago, but consider like cycling some stuff out.

Yeah. So yearly, yearly we, I'd say like you said now, for every couple of animals we keep back, cuz I, I keep back almost 100 animals yearly, you know, which is already a, a collection by itself, you know. So, um, you know, I try and, that's, let's say over a two-year time period, I try and, um, resell in 100 breeders again, you know. Um, I also, you know, compared to, I'd say the US breeders and some Europe breeders, my collection is is large, but it's not as large, you know. Um, I breed yearly around 120, 130 females roughly, for the last two to three years, and we produce around 100 clutches, 210 clutches. Um, and, um, this is a, it is still a large number, but it's a comfortable number for myself and then my employee. I've got a really great employee which has been almost 11 years with me, you know, and I always say he's, he's better than myself with the animals, you know, in terms of,

What's his name real quick? Give him some props. What's his name?

Yeah, his name is Morris, you know. So Morris has been with us for, like I said, yeah, for 11 years, you know, and when he started with the snakes, he was, I would say, afraid of the snakes, but he had no past experience, you know. So it's great to see how he's evolved and, um, you know, between myself and him, um, we manage the snakes and it's a comfortable number for us. Um, I mean, so this past year we did 109 clutches, so for the 2024, 2025 season, and, um, yeah, like I said, 100, 100 holdbacks that we kept back, and I think we just surpassed the other day 500 animals that were sold in this last year, you know. So, um, it's not like I'm chasing like the numbers in a sense, but it's a comfortable number for us to work with and also, um, you know, still properly look after all of our animals like we would have done in the past. So, um, in the next couple of years, I think I'll try and, uh, also try and cut it down a bit and see if we can just, um, get, I'd like to be in the 80, 80 numbers, you know, that will be, uh, how can you say, like a more, not reasonable size for me, but a size that I want to achieve in the next couple of years.

Yeah, I'm keeping, I'm keeping like 40 holdbacks a year and I'm selling five of those. Um, once, once a lot of these are up to breeding size, I'll be more comfortable selling adults. But, um, yeah, man. Um, I have to say one more thing I wanted to say, getting back to something we talked about earlier is, um, there are, there are situations where people think it's easy, thinks it's, it's easy. They think it's easy to sell 50 animals instead of, let's say, 10 high-end animals. That is wrong. Nothing is easy in my opinion. What, what would you guys say to that?

I, I don't think anything is easy. Selling anything is not easy right now. Does I mean, period. I think in general, the whole economy is also, um, you know, down. And I mean, locally as well, you know, if I look at my personal spending habits in a sense as well, you know, it's, it's decreased over the last two years. It's just not because, um, we're not making the same. It's just because, you know, everything is a bit more difficult in a sense now, you know, not, not difficult to the extent where we can't afford the general things, but I think everyone is more focused on just looking after themselves and looking after their families as well, you know, which, um, there's nothing wrong with it, you know. So I think as times change and as we, the economy strengthens again, um, you know, we'll have more, um, money to spend towards our hobbies and stuff that we want to do. So, I think now it's a bit more difficult to sell in a sense, but I think as well, um, you know, if you put in the time and effort, it will sell. You know, I always say, don't, don't rush yourself and put yourself in a corner to make a difficult decision. You know, the right buyer will come, whether it's in a month or two months or even a year, you know, um, if you value your animals, you can't devalue your projects as well. I think that's the most important thing as well.

The reason I brought that up, sorry. I was going to say, difficult just isn't always the same as it, it is like, difficult could just mean a little bit more time, okay? And it won't be as much as it once was. Like, biggest thing people struggle with is adjusting. Like, people get used to a certain way. And especially people, like I said, I hate that we always [ __ ] give COVID breeders the example. Well, what better example? They came in on a false [ __ ] narrative of where this hobby could take them and they weren't able to adjust to the re reality, which we're in reality now. Like the last two years or so have been the reality of things. And and guess what that means? You have to adjust. And that's fine. I, dude, life is all about adjusting. You're always going to have to adjust due to some sort of life circumstance that's going down. And if you don't, guess what? Things will happen to you. Like, if you don't take care of your health, for once, guess what will happen? You'll deteriorate. [ __ ] will happen to you if you don't adjust. Some people just have a problem with adjusting. Go ahead, Amelio.

I've always said to my people, there's no silver bullet. Oh, simple. There's no silver bullet. So, keep building your projects. Keep, keep looking to produce that $10,000 animal, that $20,000 animal, right? That five. Did I say five already? That $2,000 animal, that $1,000 animal, that $700 animal, that $300 animal. Do it. Okay. But telling people that they could easily sell 50 snakes, again, [ __ ]. That's not easy, bro. [ __ ]. [ __ ]. That scares me.

Yeah. I think, and, you know, like I think it's very important for people as well coming into the into the industry to know, you know, it's like you said, it's not just easy. It's not just, um, putting 10 snakes up in wolf market and next day everything is sold, you know. Um, so I think it's, it's really important before you decide to take up a big collection, is rather, you know, start yourself slow and build up the collection as you grow and you get comfortable. You know, I also didn't just have, you know, 200 or 300 animals just right off the bat because I think that's, um, where you make the biggest decision, biggest, um, how can you say, mistake in a sense, thinking you're just going to breed for the sake of breeding and sell the animals. I think that's the number one biggest problem in general with some of the breeders, you know, coming into the trade. I think especially locally, you know, I've seen plenty of guys that buy up, you know, collection of animals but don't necessarily have a plan. And I think that's the wrong decision to make early on.

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, man. And, and I don't know. Like I said, I can't tell you that there's no happy ending to buying someone's collection. But talk about a [ __ ] uphill battle, dude. Like that right there. I don't care how much money I have. It's not even about the money. Like the whole buying someone else's collection that just, it scares me the [ __ ] out, bro. Really does. Unless, unless you're going to put that in a whole different building and all that, but people are forgetting like, dude, ball pythons do carry [ __ ]. Okay? Like, let's not forget that. All it takes is one little [ __ ] mishap. Just because you've been keeping ball pythons for six years and nothing's gotten sick, bro, these things are tanks. They can [ __ ] hold on to it for a long time. It just takes that one [ __ ] up ball python to ruin everything. Oh my god. No thank you. No thank you. Buy a collection. My kulo. I'm not doing it. No thank you. I'm not.

It's not only that. It's not only that. You buy it and it's healthy and it, it just, it might have been in its situation its whole life. You just don't know. And then you put it, you put it in your place. It doesn't eat for six months. You know, that stuff happens a lot, you know. So there's an adjustment period. Peach their own, dude. Um, uh, is somebody eating crackers or what? What's that? Uh, is that your phone?

Is it right? Let me, let me just check. Sign off. Sign out and come back in. Sign out and come back in.

Yeah. All right. Anyways, no. Um, let's cut to commercial break. This is perfect. We haven't got commercial yet. So, let's hang tight. We'll get right back to you guys. Um, good episode. All right. We're cut to commercial and we'll be right back. Thank you so much. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors.

Hi, I'm Devin. I'm Pereza and we are Pragm. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe. We really love animals that revolve around multi-recessive projects. And one of our very favorites is Hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season. And some of those are Hypo Clown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle. Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk, the greatest reptile network in the world. If you guys want to see next level, cutting-edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progorphs.com. Thank you again, Devin and Theresa, for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized, if you want to be cutting-edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor and that's Clutch. Number one Ball Python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this app. Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your Ball Python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming Ball Python season, what you have currently available on Morph Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account. And I would also head over to their website, try it out, see how it works for you, but especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection. I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thank you, Clutch, for being so amazing. Excited to hear what Clutch has to bring in the near future. J.

All right, let's get the likes up. DJ, how, how are you, uh, sounding, buddy? You back? I hear, I hear crunching.

What is that? I think your phone is your phone dying. Usually do phones do that when they're dying.

No, I think it's just overheating. Let me see. Overusing. It's like overheating. I think it's every time I do a live stream, it for some reason it gets, yeah, it gets extremely hot. Let me see if it's better here. Okay.

We're good now. Um, I didn't know what we're going to talk about now. I was all wondering about the [ __ ] crunching. Um, all right. Uh, Milo, hit us with the topic, dude. Let's go.

Hey, so let's talk Ultra Sunset.

Yeah. All right, there you go. Wait, hold on. Hold on real quick before you continue.

Okay. How does it feel, DJ, to be one of the first people? I'll openly say this. Uh, you might, it might even been before Justin, but during my whole Sunset [ __ ] rant, my whole, uh, campaign on making fun of Sunset, that sunset ultramo you posted was one of the first sunsets that made my, my, made my jaw drop. And I'll pause. I'm just saying like, I was like, "Holy [ __ ], gorgeous, gorgeous snake." Go ahead, Emilio. I got to give him props.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, you know, some people might disagree with me, but I think, uh, Ultra to me, at least so far, has been a savior for Sunset. Gods. I, I guess that's a, it's a compliment and a slap, but, you know, backhand compliment. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, see that, that's no, no offense. All right. Whatever, dude. All right. But now we're like, holy [ __ ], and you know, yeah, in Ultram. Go ahead. I want to hear what you have to say about the project.

Yeah. I'm going to be honest with you guys. When I wasn't also the biggest fan from of the Sunset project from the start. And, um, you know, even with that video, you know, honestly, like it doesn't do the animals any justice, you know, because I remember the day. So I saw the animals. So these were produced by UK breeder or I think he's in Wales, if I'm correct. Um, unfortunately, I can't remember his, um, his company name now, but yeah, huge props to him as well. I mean, cricket, because these were, you know, I've unboxed a few animals in my life, but, but when I saw these, I was like, yeah, this is the, the real deal, you know. I've never saw, and still to the date, I've never seen, honestly, a ballpin as beautiful, you know, I might be a bit biased, but, um, I mean, the Ultramal, the, the Ultramar sunset female that I've got, so I've got a pair of them. Um, the Ultramore sunset female should lay a clutch, hopefully in the next two to three months. And, um, you know, she still looks amazing, you know, as the day that we got her. So I think I agree with you guys in terms of hypo and ultramar is, in my opinion, the best route for sunset, uh, by far.

So has there been an ultra hypo sunset yet?

No, I don't think so. I don't think that combo is. I think it's going to be like a, it's going to make a difference to the Ultramore sunset, but it might take away a bit of that, um, you know, orange tint. Yeah. That we've got. Um, so this year, you know, I wish I could have, I wish I had two Sunset Ultram males because that would have, you know, helped me speed up the projects, but so far this year, you know, um, we've actually got a clutch now from Sunset Ed Ultramal to Ultramal Sunset. So, um, the reason, you know, so this year my main focus, especially with this project, was actually to reproduce some more sunset ultramos, you know, and of course get it into, um, a few other projects. So, one that I'm really, really excited about is, uh, paint sunset ultramoros. So, um, yeah, we've got actually a clutch cooking in the incubator now for triple head. So, it's still a long, long journey with it, but I think it's, um, completely out of the norm. And I think once we do reproduce that, that animal, I think it's going to look insane. Or it might not, you know, that's, that's the exciting thing about these, these projects as well.

I mean, I think that's the barrier right there. I think anything sunset ultramill combo. I mean, I can't say anything, but goddamn, it's going to be really hard to [ __ ] that up. If you're able to make an ultramill sunset, I'm gonna tell you guys this.

Let me tell you something. Go ahead. I want to see, I want to see sugar calico in it. Yeah. I want to see black pastel enti in it. I want to see mandarin. I want to see mandarin. I want to. You see where I'm going with all this, right? Mandarin. I want to see more orange. I want to see more orange thrown in there. You know, um, maybe some darks, you know, something to put a little bit more pattern. Uh, that's what I think when I think about it, you know. Um, I'm not a big fan of, uh, Ultramale hypo stuff. Um, that's me, you know. I wouldn't, but I love the sunset hypo. I'll say, I'll say that.

Uh, so I agree with you. I agree that it might take away from, from the pop of the animal a bit. Yeah. What else, what else do you think incomplete dominant, uh, would be good for this project? Yeah, I think sugar is a, a great one. I mean, when I was visiting, uh, Bob, I mean, he had a sugar or calico sunset and I mean, you know, just that's just such a basic combo and it's, it's so beautiful. And I think with, like you said, hypo or ultramar in sunset, it's just going to look crazy. Um, I think another interesting gene that could might work well would be like confusion, you know, to disrupt the patterning as well. Um, and also bringing the effect that confusion has got in general onto the combos. You know, it almost brings like a, I wouldn't say dirtiness to some of the combos, but it brings out a different aspect to it. Um, so yeah, I'm really excited to get something like that in and, um, yeah, I agree with you as well on the, the Ultram, sorry, the, yeah, ultramar hyper project. I think it's a, it's a nice project, but unfortunately, it's very hard to ID the animals without, uh, shed testing. So, and from my breeding perspectives as well, I'd like to, you know, um, not produce animals which is hard to ID as well in a sense, you know, that's why I love working with a ley combos because it makes the IDing process so much easier, you know, it's either this or that, you know, it needs to be. So I think going forward, um, with the sunset ultramar is, like you said, just to try and increase the amount of, um, you know, orange we have in the combos.

Yeah, that's, that's what I want to see. Do you, you work with monarch too, or no?

So, I've got an entry monarch male since I think 2021, but unfortunately, he's, he's not a, he's not the best breeder, you know, he's a, he's a bit slower, um, with the female. So, we'll actually have our first monoc clutch hatch in the next two months. Um, only the one clutch and hopefully, um, we can slowly grow the project. But honestly, because I've been heavily focused on Ultramal, um, I've rather been trying to push that project also a bit further.

Ultramal has some legs, man. I'll tell you right now. There's a lot of people that are just deep into Ultra Male and they have been for a few years now. Uh, like Portuguese pythons, they stand out in my head. Uh, I think Christa in the next couple years is gonna have some crazy [ __ ]. Christa just made this [ __ ] nut. Am I hope I'm allowed to say this? Christa, my bad. Should I? Am I allowed to say this thing she just made? Cypress Ultram clone.

There you go. That was a sick ass snake. Um, yeah. I just feel like so many people are bought into Ultra Male to where like, you know, like I said, Monarch will have its day. I'm, I'm sure. But it's just right now, Ultra, it's Ultramale all day, every day right now.

Yeah. Gotta bring it. Just got to bring it, guys. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, as we go on, I think, you know, the great thing about monoch and ultramore, you know, you know, this, they are different, you know, in my opinion, quite largely different, you know, and how they react into combos. So you can use a bit of inspiration, let's say, you're working highly with ultramar, you can look at some monarch combos and see, you know, how you can bring out the contrast, especially because monarch, what I've seen, is much darker than ultramore animals. So then, you know, you can try and use that again to go into the Ultramar projects. Um, but yeah, I love the Ultram. It's one of the, one of the staples in my collection now and something that I'm really passionate about as well in terms of, you know, growing in my collection.

Um, by the way, Chris, that PayPal invoice was just sent. Make sure you pay that. Uh, anyways, moving forward. So, uh, just kidding. Um, other than Sunset, what other big project in that grand scheme of like top shelf singing are you excited about? Like, you, you [ __ ] with Puzzle at all or anything else that you can kind of relate to when it comes to Sunset?

Yeah. So, I mean, Puzzle, we working quite, um, you know, quite hard on as well. I mean, we should have hopefully some white lace puzzles in the next, next couple of months as well. Uh,

Okay, let's stop right there because I'm a big, big white lace guy, you know, just as far as wanting to hit it someday. But what do you think white lace will do to the puzzle patterning in your, in your guess? Like, if you were to guess.

So, I mean, I've got the pastel spotnose lace puzzle and I'll send you a picture of him, um, after the podcast, MJ, but he's just crazy the amount of orange he's got on the sides and it actually whacked out the pattern, you know, at the side of the animal. So, I think the white lace is, in my opinion, going to look, um, better than the puzzle DG because it's going to really, um, increase the white sides and going to bring a different effect to the puzzle patterning. Um, so I'm really excited about that. Of course, I mean, Devin and Theresa at Prog Prague Morphs are also producing some amazing, amazing puzzles.

They're so gangster, bro. They're they're killing it over there. They're they're talking about another, like, you know, not in the United States breeders who are just [ __ ] not playing or those two. Not just saying that 'cause they're a sponsor. I'm just, I'm really saying they got some heat for sure.

Listen, I think, uh, hands down, they probably had the best puzzle puzzle production of anyone in the world this year.

I agree. Yeah. Especially, that was huge, you know. And I mean, Devon, I spoke to Devon, you know, 'cause I bought a pair of chocolate hypo head puzzles from him last year and he said to me, you know, once you see the animals, you will see as well the line of hyper that we work with. Um, and he wasn't lying. I mean, those animals are, you know, boundaries above the rest in terms of the quality of them as well. So, I'm really excited to get that line of, um, you know, that he's also got in his collection into our puzzle stock. You know, I think that's going to be really interesting. So, yeah, with the puzzles, you know, we're also working on HypoDi puzzles that should be next year. Um, yeah, quite a few puzzle projects. Um, some GHI red stripe, um, hyper puzzles, hopefully this year as well. I think that's going to be quite interesting. And, um, I'm quite excited about the, the paint project as well. I think there's, that's another project.

Yeah, props, you know. So, that hypo, that hypo line you're talking about is a Renee line, correct?

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, you know, it's the [ __ ] when that line gets named after your name. Your name. That's the [ __ ] right there.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, even, I mean, so a lot of my original animals, there's one female I've got in my collection, a spot nose hypo DG that I bought actually from Justin, I think in 2016. And that female as well, she's just such great quality, you know, and she's actually started so many different projects for us over the, the last couple of years. Um, she started, um, the Aquatera project, which is the hyper black exantic. There's a ghost project. I mean, she did the, the Zebra DG hypo project as well. And she started now the hypo digi puzzle project, you know, and I really like that line of hypo because, you know, it just stands out above the rest. And I think that's also a really important thing, you know, with growing your collection, is, um, sometimes, um, you know, buying the animal which is a bit more costly is actually more beneficial than buying the animal that's cheaper, you know, even if they're exactly the same genes, because I think long, in the long term, it's just going to help you also to stand out with your collection.

Get what you pay for.

Yep. 100%. Um, let me ask you this. Um, hate to put you on the spot, but I have to ask, right? Um, are you drinking the Scrambler Kool-Aid?

Wow. Do you want to hear my honest opinion? No.

Yes. 100%. Give me, give me, give me the honest opinion.

No. So, you know, so honestly, there has been some amazing animals that's been produced which has been labeled scramble combos, but so far, um, you know, I haven't seen really, you know, how can you say, a combo by itself, like a black pastel scrambler or OD scrambler that really stood out to me. All of these, these combos are multiple, you know, super OD yellow belly, black pastel, sugar, or calico combos. I came up with a new nickname for it.

You know, this weekend asked me about it, right? Yep. And it just popped in my head. It's just a cocktail. It's a cocktail of different jeans all the time. [Music] Changed my mind. Those videos ain't enough. Sorry.

So, I mean, yo, I mean, honestly, I mean, not you. Not you. I'm just saying like, we're talking about, you know, misleading people and [ __ ], right? I mean, damn.

Okay, hold on before you speak, DJ. What I'm confused on is why, why are we not turning in the sheds or at least collecting sheds to figure this out? Like, that's another thing. The, the main person pushing this project, he's not collecting or doesn't give a [ __ ] about proving it through sheds, which is nuts to me because that's how you solidify anything in this [ __ ] game is knowing the actual morph through sheds. Am I right? Like, like without wanting to go that route, how are you trying to prove anything? I'm confused. That doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah. You know, and I think genetic shed testing is a, is a great tool for us, you know. I mean, even myself, you know, um, I spent quite a lot of money this, this last year, you know, on shed testing, you know, and I was, you know, with some of the results, I was quite surprised and I was, you know, I wasn't. And I think it's really important, you know, to from the start, rule out these things because a lot of things was sold as exactly the same animal or as a, a possible. You know, for me as well, if I can't ID something in animal, then I rather sell it for, um, you know, as possible rather than, you know, charging the customer. And with scrambler, I think, you know, there is trust. Like, don't get me wrong, some of the combos that the guys are producing, which are scrambler type animals, are beautiful, but I can't, I can't see like, um, so far, you know, it's, it's really hard for me to pinpoint it as a single gene. You know, I watched a video the other night and it's really hard to pinpoint it, you know, and I think if you can show me the difference of one combo compared to the other, I think that's the biggest, biggest thing as well.

Been asking that for over a year now. I don't know how long. We have to wait. And what's crazy is it's like, I don't know, man. If you have to think too hard, I'm good. That's all I got to say. When there's too many like, what's this? What's that? Why am I thinking so difficult about what I'm looking at? I'm good. I don't. If it's going to be difficult for me, it's going to be difficult for my productions. It's going to be difficult for me to sell. I don't want to sell a bunch of possible this. [ __ ] that. I'm good. I want to make sure I know what I'm selling and the customer knows what they're getting. That's it.

No, I agree with you. I definitely agree with you. And I think, you know, as time goes, we'll, um, we'll see what, what goes on with the collection with, with the gene itself. Um, I think it's just, you know, from the start of the episode, like we said, just need to be transparent, you know, with the whole, whole situation because some of the guys, you know, I see they've got Scrambler all of a sudden. But, I mean, you know, it just, just funny. What's funny, guys?

What's funny is that they'll say Scrambler, but they won't label all the other jeans on purpose. Yeah. What? Like, dude, that we could see right through that. Like, I don't understand. Like, who are you fooling? Not me. I'll tell you that much. Not Alio, not DJ.

No. And I mean, like I said, nothing against anyone, you know, following it. I, I think still some of the combos are beautiful. I just, you know, in my opinion, you know, I produced also some animals which looked like very scrambler like and I, I saw them as, um, you know, what they were at that time and they were super yellowy black pastals, you know, or whatever the combo was. Um, you know, that was for before the, the Scrambler hype or whatever it is at the time, you know. So, each to their own, you know, if maybe we proven wrong in a couple of years, you know. Um, we never know. That's a.

Give me, give me some sort of information. That's all I want. Like, help us. That's all we want is like some sort of like support on the people working this project to like prove some of this [ __ ]. That's all. Just like everything else. Why does everything else need to be proven, but this thing? I don't get it. Is it special? Is it that special? I don't understand.

Listen, the animals are beautiful. Proceed with caution. Okay. There's already people producing stuff that they are not happy with. That's all I'm saying.

Cocktail. Cocktail. That cocktail is good. It's like a, it's like a drink. It had drink. That drink always has. Oh, Orange Dream. Calico, you know, hetlav. Uh, what am I missing here? Angie. Um, you know, it, it always has a bunch of stuff in it that, you know, Black Pastel, Barnhard, you know, but no one's, no one says it, you know.

Yeah. Or haters, you know. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So, I mean, time will tell. And, uh, like you said, I think it's, as long as you wary of the project you're buying into, then it's your own decision, you know. You can. And then, oh, and, and, and one more, Java. Another one. And, and then we're surprised when we hit a lavender animal. Are you sure? Are you really surprised?

What's for real? What's Java supposed to be? I don't. I. That's another gene that, that, that's always floating in there. And now we got exact floating in there. I wonder why. It's all from the same animals, guys.

I mean, are we really surprised?

Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, so like I said, it will be interesting, you know, to see how the project unfolds. And, um, in my opinion, you know, it's not something I'm going to, I'm going to spend my money on currently. That's all.

Yeah. You know, that's, and that's an honest opinion, you know, like, um, I think there's, there's great, great sleeper jeans. I mean, one of the, the sleeper jeans is sugar or calico. I mean, I've got some insane looking just plain sugar animals, which, you know, if you wanted to, you could say it's X, Y, and Z gene additional, additional as well, you know, 'cause it just looks so crazy good. And it comes back to, in my opinion, there is some sort of line breeding of the animals in a sense. You know, the better your quality of stock is, the better your babies and the animals are going to be indirectly. So, um, you know, I think if you push that and you work with the best, best lines, you're never going to be wrong in a sense.

I, and I'm already, we just got done discussing how many uphill battles you're up against coming into this. Like, there's, it's not just as easy as making a snake. Um, I feel like a lot of the decisions you rely on project-wise that, that literally has a say for your future in this hobby. You know what I mean? So, um, go ahead, Amino. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

With every generation of, let's say, Orange Dream, right? With every animal bred into something better into the next better item and the next one, the next animal that's better. People don't understand that. They haven't been doing this a long time.

Yeah. Each subsequent, uh, generation or whatever you want to call it of animals, year yearly gets better and better and better and better.

Line breeding. And that's what you're seeing in some of these animals that are being sold as another gene. Plain and simple. It's another case of the hurricane story, isn't it? Isn't that like, was it hurricane taken from the United States and then also line bred in Europe and then sold back here as a different.

Same [ __ ] thing, dude. Exact same thing. Only it was Canada.

Yeah. Yeah. Or Germany. Germany.

Oh, I thought it was Scrambler came from Germany. I thought it came from Canada.

Oh, no. No. I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the. No, I thought Scrambler was, Scrambler was discovered in Germany or, I'm sorry, Canada, right? Yeah.

And so wasn't Java, wasn't Java discovered in Canada as well?

Wow. Um, write these on the board here.

So simply, just be, be aware. Be aware that the top 10 guys. Exactly. Messing with Scrambler. Yeah. There might be one, but even he's kind of like on the fence. I mean, and, and if somebody wants to tell you that it doesn't matter what the top 10 guys think, you, you better get some new [ __ ]. You better get some new [ __ ] help. Okay? You better [ __ ] open thy eyes. That's another thing is like, dude, the top dogs in this game, they're, they're not really respected as much as they should be right now. It's a [ __ ] joke. You know what I'm saying? Like, why wouldn't you want their advice? You, you just because they're successful and you're not yet, what does that mean? You should go get advice from them. Um, yeah. It's crazy to me, man. Again, a lot of these [ __ ] loser club people almost target the bigger breeders that have been so successful into this game and have been help. They help people, bro. Talk about me, dude. Bob Buu has [ __ ] put on so many new [ __ ] up-and-coming breeders that are doing really well right now. Justin, look at Justin's resume on how many people he's helped. Okay? Miguel, bro, the list goes on. Like there's been so many of these breeders who are relevant today who've helped so much and they don't get enough credit for it. Bro, it's all because there's, it's the majority of the people aren't making money right now. So when you have a bunch of miserable people who are not doing well, who are they going to go after? The ones up top always. That's just what that's just how the game works in life. Not even in the, when I say the game, sometimes I just mean in [ __ ] life. In life, dude. They're always gonna go after the ones who are.

Happy, successful. The ones who aren't really [ __ ] complaining because successful people don't complain, dude. They don't complain. Sorry.

They're not in the comments. Successful people are not in the comments.

I think it's a great example that those three breeders you mentioned. I mean, bo all three. I mean, Bob, Justin, and Miguel. I mean when Miguel started, you know, I think he had a lot of people talk, not talking down on him, but like giving him a lot of slack. And, you know, he's been one of the guys that literally, literally showed us all, you know, um, don't mind what the rest says and just do what you want to do. And he's making a, a really, how can you say, like a good name for himself, or he's got a great name, you know, I don't even need to try and say something, you know.

So, um, I think it's all important, like you said, as well, you know, trying to, to help grow the community. And if you're not trying to help grow the community, then, um, you need to, you need to do better in a sense, as well.

Yeah. And I will say, man, the first two years, bro, like if it wasn't for me, Gail, I don't know if I would have stuck around, but he gave me the confidence. Like he let me know, like MJ, you're right. Some of these people are [ __ ] weird. Like, who gives a [ __ ] And like he gave me like the reassurance that what I was seeing was correct. And I'm not gonna let these [ __ ] whoever the [ __ ] way up there in the nose bleed have an effect on what I'm doing. They ain't gonna stop me from doing a podcast or even stop my breeding. I'll tell you that much.

You know, I, I, I got to say, thank God for people like Miguel who [ __ ] show it doesn't matter what anyone has to say to you. Do the [ __ ] work and watch what happens. His, his saying will always stand out to me. You buy cool [ __ ], you breed cool [ __ ], you sell cool [ __ ]. You do those three things. It's all that [ __ ] matters, dude. And it's cool to you. Doesn't need to be cool to nobody else. It just needs to be cool to you. It's about you, dude. This is a self [ __ ] uh, what is it? Self, um, I don't know what to say, but this is, this is a, a self satisfaction [ __ ] hobby. This is for us to feel good. You know what I mean? I get it. We should reach out for people. We should help others, which I'm pretty sure that's what we do this podcast for. Me and me though, it's helped so many [ __ ] people just by doing this every Monday night. Have we not, you know, remembered how much game we've given to people on a [ __ ] Monday night? Are you kidding me?

No.

And being being called gatekeepers. That's freaking funny to me. Um, but at the end of the day,

Yeah.

We hold the gate between what we're doing and the bottom feeders. You're right. We don't want nothing to do with the bottom feeders. And guess what? We all start from the bottom, but we don't have to stay down there. I didn't stay down there.

I'll tell you that much. DJ didn't stay at the bottom. Alio didn't stay at the bottom. We all started there, but we ain't got to hang out there with the [ __ ] ones who refuse to evolve and get better.

Let me, let me say this, man. Uh, DJ is creating an amazing base of customers.

You're creating an amazing base of customers. I'm creating an amazing base of customers.

Um, I don't necessar, I don't mind pissing some people off. Those people are not going to support me. At the end of the day, those people are not going to buy animals from me. They're looking for handouts. A lot of them, not all. Okay. Um, I'm good with that. If I piss you off, good. That's okay. Hopefully, hopefully you don't need

Hopefully you take something from, cuz even the haters are watching. Hopefully you take something from us, even though you get upset and you make yourself better and maybe you'll change your mind.

But if you're listening, some advice from someone in their mid-50s who never had success in this hobby, dude, and all they do is talk negative about the success happening in this hobby, your, your mindset's always going to be clouded with [ __ ] hate, dude. And this is not, that's not a life to live. Like, you should not be clowning or hating on someone successful in this hobby. That does, especially if you want to be in the hobby. How does that make sense? Make it make sense, dude. How does it make sense?

You know, and like, you know, there is room for everyone. I always said, you know, like, like you said, MJ, it doesn't mean we start some, where doesn't matter where you start, you know, it's about

It goes about your dedication and your persistence, you know, and of course, the passion for the animals. Um, if you have that, you know, it's, it might be a, a bumpy road. I mean, my road is also, I mean, um, even this past weekend, I found out, you know, that a shipment of animals that we importing was delayed. You need to try and work with it, you know. Um,

Uh, I mean, it is a stressful, I'm not going to lie, even at the moment, I'm still stressed about it. But, you know, you need to try and make the best out of the situ situation and try and see how you can resolve it. You know, I think that's the most important. And you learn out of it, you know, and you go on. Um, I think that's the most important thing out of all of it as well.

And go ahead.

Life is full of unforeseen circumstances. We have to

You got to adjust, dude.

You have to deal with it.

God damn.

Guess what? Nobody, I, I say most, okay, do not have what we have. We have the most popular pet snake in the world. Okay. It is 55% of the reptile market. It's not just any snake. Okay. It's the dominant snake in the world.

Yeah.

Okay. Period. Okay. Where, where we go with it is all up to us.

Yep.

It's that simple.

Yeah, man. And you know what? Like, if someone's passion and drive makes you feel some type of way, dude, that's, you got to go figure that out. I'm sorry. I, I've, like, you, you know how much Miguel had that I didn't have when I first met that dude. Like, I'll never forget looking at him and it was nothing but fuel. Like, and mind you, because he was cool to me too, right? That, that helped him be my friend. But never did I have an ounce of a jealous [ __ ] bone with Miguel, dude. And I'm not going to say I've never been jealous of people before. I definitely have. I, dude, they're in the music scene. I used to look at DJs that were being flown places and I would always wonder why. Like, what the [ __ ] And was I doing studio [ __ ] time like they were? No. Like, I wasn't putting nowhere near the amount of effort that these dudes who were [ __ ] getting flown everywhere were. But it made me feel some type of way. But when I got into the reptile hobby, bro, I love the reptile game so much where I just wanted to learn, dude. And if someone's going to be cool to me and someone who, who has success, and I always, I saw to Miguel off the bat. I'm like, "Dude, this guy is [ __ ]. He's different." And, and a lot of people were saying, "Nah, this, he's going to be a one-hit wonder, you know, just because how he was so open to his life, and I like that about him." But man, dude, anybody's success that you want should be inspiring to you. If it makes you jealous, go find something else to do. This isn't it for you. But goddamn, man. Like, there's nothing but inspiration happening in this hobby right now. Like, you could say what you want about what needs an eye-opening [ __ ] [ __ ] off, dude. There's so much inspiration, right? How about open your eyes and be inspired by everything that's happening right now. The ones who are putting in the work and making it happen. The ones who are not selling their collection. Inspiring.

DJ's DJ's videos. Inspiring.

Inspiring, dude. Go.

I love. Hey, by the way, I love I love your content, bro.

No, thanks. Thanks, man. You know, and I appreciate that, you know, because the YouTube, you know, it's, it's the same thing like you said with, um, Miguel and stuff, you know, he was just consistent from the start, you know, and, um, you know, that's another thing that I'm trying to do from my side as well, you know, the, the huge, you've, you've got your off days and whatever, but, um, you know, you need just to try and push through and as well, you know, like you said, get the content out because we all trying just to grow the, the reptile hobby indirectly. You know, I always say the more people we can get into the trade or, you know, just realize that these animals are actually such wonderful pets and, you know, just keeping them, you know, that's, that's the main important thing I think as well.

And, and, and I, you know, now we could get into a little bit where you're going to go with certain in the near future with certain things, right? What you want to get next in your collection. But let me say again, people that left this, people's people that their ship has been sinking forever and they have all the [ __ ] bilge pumps going. They have 20 bilge pumps running all at once at all times, right?

Yeah. They, they don't understand how fulfilling and how amazing it feels to hit, you know, some, some combos like my man over here.

Some [ __ ].

Well, wait. You know what I mean? Some amazing combos.

67, my boy.

They don't understand. They don't understand what it feels like to hit a to hit a combo

That,

Man, you've been waiting to hit for so long that you couldn't afford, right? Because we all got different levels of spending, right?

This is not only about making money. This is about making beautiful animals that make you extremely happy,

That fill you with with joy.

I think another reason.

I think happiness makes you rich in life. I really do. I'm so rich right now. It's ridiculous. I'm so rich.

So,

This makes us happy. It's another reason to live and and gives us happiness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

People, some people don't understand that.

And never will.

That's their choice. That's their choice, unfortunately. Man, you got to figure out what makes you happy. And if you think it's one thing and it's not working, well, it's probably multiple things you got to work on. It's like there's not, there's never no one answer to a solution, bro. There's a lot of things you guys got to figure out in life. And it only gets harder as you get older. That's why I feel like the ones who are setting their ways in their 50s, the [ __ ] you want to listen to some [ __ ] rundown person like that for? Like, they're not going to direct you into the right way because they were never in the right way at all their entire life. So, what the [ __ ] Listen to people who have done nothing but good things for themselves and that could help your life. They're, dude, I, again, I don't know how many times I could say it. Thank God for the snakes, but thank God for the people a part of this hobby. Bro, if it wasn't for the people a part of this hobby, which I could go down the list like I've already done, I would have never became the person I am today. I have changed so much due to the people in this hobby and call them family, dude. And this is, this is another thing. Some of these people won't get that either. Like, some, some people won't ever get to the point of actually meeting people that could change your life and you'll consider them family for [ __ ] years to come. It's the best thing ever, dude.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think, you know, one of my, my good, one of my good friends are, you know, um, in this, I met through the snake industry, you know, and he was actually a customer of mine when we started out and, you know, couple of years later, you know, due to some circumstances, he's not even keeping snakes anymore or he's not keeping as as many as he used to and we're still good mates, you know, we're still good friends, you know, I think some of the better people we meet in the industry is, um, like you said, well, some of the better people I've met has been in the snake industry or the reptile industry.

So, I think it's a great thing.

Hey, I gotta say to the OG's in the chats, my biggest mentors and friends in this game are in their 50s. So, Jeremy, don't trip. JQ, JQ, you're gangster. I think you're perfect where you're at. Don't, you ain't got to change [ __ ], my guy. Jeremy, you just got to stop hitting me in public, that's all. But anyways, um, no, but yeah, at the end of the day, man, like, you know, again, like you being 24, bro, man, you're, you're gonna grow so much still, DJ, which is crazy to think, just to think where you're going to be when you're my age at 40. Like, goddamn, bro. Like, and not only just you as an individual, but your projects like, like on the on the forefront of everything, you know, all because you stuck it out.

Yeah.

You know, and like you said, I think that's the most important if you're able to stick it, stick through everything. Um, I mean, even like with my stuff, you know, with my collection and how things has played out, you know, just in, in personal, you know, personal life happenings, you know, sometimes it's been difficult, you know, to continue with, with the reptiles in a sense, but, you know, always, I've always believed, you know, if you look after them, they'll look after you. And, um, I'm re, I'm really excited about the near future with the, with the animals and, um, with the reptile trade in general. I think there's a lot of things happening for the good as well and I think it's going to be really interesting to see how the next couple of years plays out. Um, everything has become a bit more rapid. Um, so you need to be really, how can you say, like you said, dialed in and make sure that you work your right projects and work projects that you're passionate about. I think that's the most important as well.

Dude, what you put into this hobby comes back tenfold, man. Just be a good person and, you know, have morals and standards when it comes to business and watch how this hobby rewards you. It's crazy as [ __ ]. And again, meeting the right people, man. A, and if you don't do right by these people, they won't stick around in your life. That's another thing about this hobby, right? As much as it's easy to meet the right people, if you're not that right person, you will not be a part of their circle. You will not be a part of what they're going on and you're going to have a rough time. So that's why I feel like a lot of these people that have hates, go [ __ ] look in the mirror and go check yourself, okay, first and foremost before you comment the next time because you're miserable. That's all I got to say, man. Go ahead.

By the way, by the way, telling the truth and giving honest assessments that are backed up,

Yeah.

By real experience,

Doesn't make you a bully. Doesn't make you a bully or a bad person.

Or a meanie or or or an [ __ ].

The [ __ ] is the one telling you the stuff that's going to make you fail.

Sorry. Not sorry. I'll take take that to the bank a thousand times.

And I'm say what you want.

And I'm not sorry that our like what we put out makes you feel some type of way and regret all the failures you [ __ ] had. I'm, I'm sorry, dude. But I'm not sorry. I don't give a [ __ ]. You, you swing for the fences, especially if your batting average is great. You swing for the cycle.

Okay. You swing for the cycle. That is true. That is very, that's a good plan.

Yeah.

You're not swinging for B. You're not going for bunts and singles all the time. That's [ __ ].

Well, actually on base, bro. Just get in the game. How about that?

You know what I mean?

Get in the game.

Yep.

Definitely.

All right. I'm, I got a wrap-up question and we'll get to Medio's wrap-up question. Um, and thank, How you feeling? You all right? Are you, you all right, DJ? I know it's late right now. You, you doing good? We're going to, we're going to land the ship here soon. You good?

Yeah. Yeah. No, man. No worries.

All right. So, my wrap-up question for you, DJ, is, um, like how much, like at this point, right, like how much information is there to be researched at your level in the game when it comes to like, you know, your projects? Like, I mean, I know you got your stuff, but what are you doing to stay sharp? Like, what are you doing to kind of stay ahead of the curve with some of this stuff? Like, give us what you're doing to be prepared for the market in the next, you know, five to six years.

Yeah, you know, it's a, it's a great question because it's sometimes hard to predict, you know, it's hard to predict what's going to happen tomorrow in a sense. You know, you can

Just work with what you got. But yearly before I do my pairings, you know, I write down my main projects that I'm working with, um, whether it's triple quad or double recessive animals and, um, even, you know, single recessives and I write down which codes I'd like to get into the project and, um, which I already have in the project to to formulate my, um, my pairings for the year. And yeah, you know, I think it's just constantly, um, um, you know, looking at the the market, you know, analyzing what's going on, what people are doing, you know, um, you know, closely following, not closely following projects, but taking inspiration from others and trying to see what, how you can make it better, you know, and that's why I really try and dial in my pairings, you know, and always try and see if, you know, we can't take it to a different project. Um, you know, looking what the rest are doing and trying to add our spin to it.

My wrap-up is simple, bro. Is there anything that you want to talk about the next two minutes or or whatnot that we might have missed that you had in mind that you want to bring up

During the the episode today?

Yeah. So, um, couple of, well, this is more for like, uh, international viewers. Um, so I'm actually traveling to, uh, Thailand, Hong Kong, and Japan on the 10th of October. So, um, we'll be, you know, in all three different countries, meeting up with existing customers and hopefully some new ones. So, I'm looking forward to seeing anybody who's going to be, you know, in these regions, especially at the Japan Reptile Expo. I think it's going to be a great time.

Nice. And, um, you know, just, um, yeah, if you want to find out a bit more about, you know, us at Reptiles for Centuries, you're more than welcome to reach out to to us on Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, YouTube, whatever. We more than w, more than willing to always share our, um, information and what we can with you guys.

Hell yeah. Um, I gotta say, man, um, are you, can we talk a little bit about that expo that's going to be happening in May in South Africa?

Yeah, sure.

I'm curious about how many, because I, from what I understand, there's not a lot of shows that happen in South Africa, right? Or, or can you kind of like, this is like one of the first big ones or, or correct me if I'm wrong.

Yep. Yeah. So, the SOS Reptile Expo is basically, I think this last year was a 20th year anniversary. So it's been a, um, the staple expo here in, in South Africa. So, um, they host three expos yearly which is May, uh, September, and then December expo. Um, you know, so our expos, you know, is really small compared to the USA ones, but for a small expo, we are very, um, diverse. You know, there's a lot of different reptile species, species that, um, you know, in the last expo, I actually saw some brand new species which I've never seen, which is great to see, you know, um, stuff that I used to see as a youngster going to expos that's unfortunately, you know, left our trade and made it back in again. So, which is great. So I, you know, I'd say to anyone that is, you know, heavily involved in the reptile trade or in the reptile hobby is, if you can try and attend international expos, whether it's South Africa, um, you know, an Asian expo or even, you know, um, the Europe exposes. I think it's great to see the different markets and get a, also a perspective of how, you know, you can improve your own market again.

Yeah, man. I, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm rolling up, bro. I'm going to figure it out. I'm pulling up and I'm gonna be checking out that expo on Morph Markets behalf. They're gonna be flying me out and, uh, DJ, you know, we're for sure gonna check out your collection, buddy. We're gonna have to, we're gonna have to take care of that immediately when I get there.

Yeah, man. When, once you booked your trip, just let me know. I'll come pick you up at the airport. And, yeah, if you need a place to stay, you're more than welcome staying with us. And, um, yeah, look forward to seeing you in South Africa. I think you guys, I think Amelia needs to also, if he gets time, make the trip out.

Um, we've, we've got really a beautiful country with probably the most amazing wildlife, you know. So I think it will be definitely worth the trip for you guys besides reptiles. You know, reptiles are great, but I think if you come and explore South Africa, you know, you guys will see we've got a really amazing country with, you know, amazing people and like I said, wildlife as well. I mean, animals has been just as, like I feel like all of us on this screen. It's been a part of our lives since the beginning. It always, it all started with dinosaurs with me, but right after that came the mammals and all mammals based out of [ __ ] Africa. So, I'm, you don't understand how excited this would be for me to make a trip like that, but I'm also very scared. So, you got to make sure I stay on the jeep or wherever we're going. Don't let me get out and, don't, I don't want close encounters. All right. Please take care of me, bro. Like, I don't want to go out the way some people want me to go out, eaten by a lion or some [ __ ]. You know what I'm saying?

No, we, we'll try and make sure that doesn't happen. But if it does, it, it makes a cool story, man.

Yeah, sure. I have enough cool stories, bro. See this leg right here? I'll tell you this story one day. Trust me, I'm, I got enough of them. Um, anyways, all right. Great episode. This was a good time. We got round two hot seat questions before you take off. Are you cool with that?

Cool.

All right, guys. Do me a favor. Shout out to everyone who's tapped in. Let's get the likes up, please. Um, it's been an awesome episode. We got these round two hot seats questions and of course Amelia will be ready for you for sure. So, um, you know how these works. The quicker the better. You ready, DJ?

Yep.

All right, here we go. Frozen daughter or live?

Frozen.

First thing you would feed a baby ball python?

Uh, M fuzzy.

Least favorite incomplete dominant?

Spider.

Number one incomplete dominant. Um, lace.

Number one most underrated double recessive?

Ultra ml.

Red condro or yellow conjro?

Red for sure.

Designers or localities?

H, uh, designers.

What's one, what's one designer condro you would love to get from the United States into your collection, like what breeder, like what's like your most dreamiest condro out there?

Sure. Um, I think it's, um, the House of Blue. I don't know what's his name, but he's

Eric. Eric. Yeah. GG.

Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy. Eh.

All right. Minor simple. Last but not least, little word association. You got to say the first name come top of your mind. Coolest reptile network in the world. DJ.

Trap Talk. Trap Talk.

From South Africa. Global. This is globally known. Go ahead.

That's gonna be amazing. Um, all right. I'm going to give you six options and you're going to pick three that you're going to stay with. Okay? It's just, sometimes, sometimes we got to make decisions. Okay.

Cool.

All right. Ultra, hypo, DG, puzzle, clown, and pi. I need you to pick three that you're going to stay with.

Um, clown, Ultramole, and Pi.

Now, I need you to take one off of there. Uh, that's a different ultram.

Damn. Okay. All right. So, we're going to do the same thing with incomplete dominance. Vanilla, gravel, asphalt, blackhead, confusion/acid, mandarin, sugar, calico. You know these. You gave them to me.

Yeah. Three. I'll say blackhead, uh, mandarin, and sugar.

All right, knock one off.

Oh, that's a different one. Mandarin.

Okay. See, you're the first person I've done this whole knock it off, knock one off thing, too. Feels special. All right. Um, I'm going to give you four combos and give me two that you'd have in your rack right now. All right. Well, you already have Ultra Sunset, so I should probably take that off. All right, but let's leave it in there. All right. Ultra Sunset, Exantic DG Clown, GHI, Mojave Trist, Stripe, TG Clown. Keep two. Uh, it out because you already have it. Take it out.

Okay. Yeah. Um, then I'll go for Exantic DJ clown and GH Movie tribe.

All right. All right. Uh, this, these are your animals. Okay. We're going to go blackhead confusion yellow belly clown head DG. And I want you to go off of look. Okay. Go off of look. Don't go off of where you're going to go with it. Confusion blackhead black pastel leopard clown. Tell me which one you love to open more.

The confusion blackhead black pastel leopard clown.

Dude, that thing is.

Yeah, he was, he's, he's crazy.

I went looking through your page and honestly, you have amazing animals. But I love the dark side of clowns and those two stood stood out to me big time, bro.

All right, man. I'm going to go one more and I mean, this is what you like, so I'm going to ask you. All right. Lil Wayne or Rick Ross?

Lil Wayne.

Okay. Okay.

All right, man. This been a hell of an episode, bro. And

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

Glad you came on.

Yep. Thanks, MJ. I really do appreciate the opportunity and Emilia as well to getting to meet you guys. And, uh, yeah, look forward to seeing you guys somewhere in South Africa next year or at least for MJ firstly.

I'll work on Alio. You never know, he might pull up last minute. Um, but, you know, either way, I'm looking forward to, uh, having you back on the show, man. Like I said, it's, it's cool to have someone on where you have so much like confidence that they're going to be around for the next five, six, seven, 8, 10, 20 [ __ ] years in your case. You know what I'm saying? And, and because I, I want a relationship with somebody who's going to be around that long because again, this is, this is the best life I could ever choose for myself for my family because it's making me happy and, and you got, you know, it's hard. And for me, dude, if I'm not happy, it's hard for me to even function in life. I got to be happy. I gotta. And I feel like that's one thing I try to protect and all this right here keeps me happy. So, um, and again, very, very happy with where things are headed for you, DJ. I think you already mentioned, but real quick, where can people reach out to you if they want to send you a message? Instagram is the best way, you'd say.

Yeah, Instagram is probably the best and the easiest, but, um, like I said, we've got the two Morph Market pages. Both are Reptiles for Centuries. One is USA and one is just Reptiles for Centuries. And then, um, we also started earlier this year Patreon as well. So,

If you guys want to have more of an in-depth what we do here on a daily basis and just in general, you guys can come and ask a bit more about information about that as well. I will put all the links to that in the description below. So, make sure you guys go check it out. But, uh, give it up. It's a wrap for the homie DJ Reptiles for the Centuries, ladies and gentlemen.

Thanks, guys.

All right. Appreciate it.

Have a good one, bro.

You, too, man. Cheers.

[ __ ] Hey, what a, what a head on that kid's shoulders, man.

Yeah.

Really cool to think, really cool to think where things are headed for him.

Yeah. Again, great episode. Uh, great, uh, great combos coming. Great, great, uh, opportunities, uh,

And, and great episodes coming up because this Thursday night, holy [ __ ], ladies and gentlemen, Bob Vu and Alio's joining me. I never done a podcast with Bob Alios.

No, I haven't. Um, let me say, uh, Bob is an inspiration.

He is an inspiration.

Bob started from the bottom.

Sure did.

And he's been here, you know, like the song says.

Uh, I'm really excited, man. Um,

Yep. He's, uh, he's an inspiration, bro. Bottom line. And I'm looking forward to it. Um, we love this game.

Love this game. It's not a stupid snake.

Hey. Hey, you know what? And I don't, I don't know what life would be without passion, man. Like, I, also think like, not everyone's as passionate about things in life. And that's okay, dude. But goddamn, you and I, bro, we have that passion, bro. And, and that's, say what you want. You can't take that out of us. You know what I mean? And, and our passion bleeds through the work we do behind these animals. Another thing you can't take away from us. All right?

We got so much proof with our work. And we don't, we don't just sit here and open our [ __ ] mouths and beg you to join our Patreon or beg you to not watch other people's podcast. We're not that pathetic, dude. We have our work that speaks for us. Okay?

We're just too busy at the end of the day as well to be dealing with all that [ __ ]. Um,

Yeah, bro. Listen.

We're taking care of our people in the background and in, and in, in the front.

Our legacy.

Yeah. Building every year. That's it.

And it's not going to stop, bro.

It's been stopping. Hey, it's been stopping for 25 years.

Oh, Jesus.

Or, or you could go longer. You go, you could say 35, 40. I mean, they've been saying that this game is going to go away for 35, 40 years. And the ones that were saying that five, six years ago, they're not around. That's why whenever you hear this narrative being thrown out, let's see where this individual is in the next few years.

Probably collecting rocks or doing something else. I don't know. But, um, Thursday night's going to go down. You guys are going to catch Big E here back. So double Big E type of week, family all day.

You know, we always say, God bless.

God bless, bro. Seriously, guys, please vill go subscribe on Instagram and join his Patreon. I need that link. I'll put that description below. If you guys really want to elevate things, if you, if you feel like it's worth investing into yourself into this game, go join his Patreon, please. I'm recommending it right now. Um, and thank you for everything that you do, bro. Hey, listen. I also, I think we should give props to the [ __ ] who, who do love what we do. You know, as much as we kind of always kind of highlight the haters, dude, [ __ ] that. You know how many people really rock with us, bro? Like, you know how many people we, we've, like, and I got DMs to prove all this [ __ ]. Like, we have legit helped so many people and we're going to continue to help people who want to do good in this game and in life. Period.

I mean it.

No proof.

No proof. Exactly.

I mean.

Oh man. All right.

It's a wrap for me.

All right.

Thank you so much. Uh, everyone out there, if you're not already subscribed, please subscribe. All right. Just a passionate reptile keeper who just has nothing but passion for the reptiles and the animals I keep and all my breeding projects and so on and so on, man. But yeah, please smash that like button. Hit that subscribe button. Drop a comment in the comment section. Let me know what you like best out of these episodes. We'll catch you here tomorrow for All in the Tree Tuesdays. That's right. We're finally back after a two-week hiatus. Marshall Mendes was going to Hella Fish concerts, but he's done raging now. So, here we go. All in the Tree Tuesdays tomorrow. And then Trap Talk with Bob Vu and Alio making ball pythons great again. Okay, not that they weren't great before, but holy [ __ ], guys. Time to snap out of things here. Okay, the reality is this. Ball pythons grows this hobby and it makes the world go around. That's a fact. All right, but guys, that's all we have on this episode of the recap. New brain on the block. Make sure you check out all my sponsors in the description below. I'll catch you here Tuesday night. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors.

Hi, I'm Devin.

I'm Pereza. And we are Prague Motors. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe.

We really love animals that revolve around multi-recessive projects. And one of our very favorites is Hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season. And some of those are Hypo Clown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle.

Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk, the greatest reptile network in the world. If you guys want to see next level cutting edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progorphs.com. Thank you again, Devin and Theresa, for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized, if you want to be cutting edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor and that's Clutch. Number one Ball Python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this app. Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your Ball Python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming Ball Python season, what you have currently available on Morph Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account and I would also head over to their website, try it out, see how it works for you. But especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection, I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thank you, Clutch, for being so amazing. Excited to hear what Clutch has to bring in the near future.