Networks in Motion, with Brian Barritt (CTO of Aalyria)

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Valley of Death. I'm your host, Moisl. My guest this week is Brian Barrett, co-founder and CTO of Valyria, who just this week announced a $100 million funding round at a $1.3 billion valuation.

The company, which originally spun out of one of Google's special projects divisions, is building two things that together are essentially next-gen infrastructure for communications: Spacetime, a software layer designed to orchestrate networks in motion, not just users in motion; and Tightbeam, a laser comm system pushing fiber-like speeds through the atmosphere.

In this conversation, we unpack why "network in motion" is the problem behind modern constellations, airborne platforms, and multi-domain defense networking, and why Brian believes we're at the point where it's no longer a technology question; it's an execution and adoption question. A lot to unpack here, so let's get started.

Brian, you had a big announcement this week.

Yeah, thanks.

So, $100 million at a $1.3 billion valuation. Um, you guys just raised, uh, a big funding round, just announced it. Uh, congratulations, first and foremost.

Thank you. It's really exciting. It took a bit, but glad to have it out there.

Well, we're going to dive into that, but in a little bit. Um, but, but first, I do want to just kick things off. Um, tell me a little bit of the history of Valyria. Um, where does it all begin?

Yeah. Um, it kind of begins in two places, two different timelines, and sort of converge. Um, one is kind of our, our software story, uh, which has its origins in, in Google in around 2013, when there was sort of a, a range of projects going on there trying to connect the unconnected, bring, you know, billions of people in the world that lack broadband internet, uh, online. Um, and Google was exploring a range of ways to do that, from using satellites in space to unmanned aircraft to novel, sort of terrestrial networks. And our software story was kind of born out of that, which we can get into.

And then the other, the other, uh, uh, story arc kind of begins in the late '90s at Lawrence Livermore National Labs, where there were teams working on making laser communications work well through the atmosphere. And a group there kind of spun out from the lab, and Google saw a need for that technology for some of those things I mentioned earlier that it was pursuing, and acquired that tech into Google. Uh, both of these pieces of tech were incubated there over the course of about seven, eight years, uh, with a lot invested, um, some in stealth, some, um, more well-known. And, uh, both of those technologies are now part of Valyria.

So, let's, uh, I mean, uh, there's two pieces there, there's a software and hardware piece, but let's start with the software piece, so, um, which is your technology, Spacetime. So, you mentioned Loon, you mentioned connecting the unconnected, you mentioned internet. Was Spacetime originally built, um, for Loon? Maybe talk a little bit about, sort of, the evolution of the product. What was it originally envisioned to do, and, you know, and I know you were working on it on the, um, early, um, founding team of that technology. So, maybe talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. Right. So, you know, when you look at this problem of connecting the connecting the unconnected, um, it's a problem that's like, kind of highly related to population densities. Uh, uh, you know, until these new rounds of like, low-earth orbit and mid-earth orbit satellite constellations, you, you generally only connected large areas from one of two altitudes. You do it from, like, the height of a cell tower, or you do it all the way up at 36,000 kilometers into space in geostationary orbit. Um, geostationary satellites are great, uh, but they can have, like, a third of the planet in their field of view, which can be, like, a third of the planet sharing their internet access. Uh, and then you're left with very few megabits per second per square kilometer. Like, not a lot of data to go around.

And then towers work great when there's enough money in the radius of the towers to pay for the cost of the tower. But in emerging markets or places that are sparsely populated, there's just not enough wealth in the radius of a tower to, like, cover the cost of building the tower. And for, you know, many decades, that's left a lot of people unconnected in the world. So, when Google went looking at, like, how are we going to connect all these unconnected people? Yeah, there's a component of it that was like subsidizing fiber deployment in Africa or other places, but a lot of the focus went to, well, how do we make communications happen, uh, for these, for these other population densities? Is there a way to, like, affordably connect people, um, in that middle area?

And so we started looking at low-earth orbit satellite constellations. We started looking at, um, high-altitude platforms like Loon, unmanned solar glider drones, which, you know, Facebook was also looking at with their Aquila project. And when you look at all those things, uh, one of the things that, that you realize is, unlike towers and geostationary satellites, if you're in any of the altitudes in between, now the network is moving. People are used to networks where the users move. We all walk around with our laptops and our cell phones. We, the users at the edge of the network, are moving and we're roaming between Wi-Fi access points and cell towers. But, but this, this, this part where the network is also moving, the infrastructure, the base stations are constantly moving around. That creates a bunch of challenges for networks.

And so Spacetime, our software platform, was really born out of this need to operate networks in motion, uh, not just support users in motion. And, uh, and I think the part that was really unique, uh, kind of happenstance, is that at Google, we happened to have, uh, space projects, multiple types of unmanned aerial systems, and terrestrial systems that were all facing that challenge. So, the part we did that I think no one really did before is we asked ourselves, can we solve that problem, like, comprehensively? Can we solve it once and let four internal projects all use the same solution?

Right.

Instead of doing what people mostly done, which is like, build pretty siloed, vertically, like, you know, stacked things. So, the original sort of, um, mandate, for lack of a better word, was how do we figure out this kind of connectivity problem in general? But that bore that, or that, that sort of gave birth to this new challenge, which is like, we have all these different pieces of technology, um, but it, we don't have a connected software stack that, like, links all of them together.

Yeah. Yeah. We actually, like, when we were working on some of these different unmanned aerial vehicles, like Loon, solar drones, some satellite work, uh, we were all talking about how it would be kind of embarrassing if, if more than one of these projects succeeded at Google, but they couldn't use each other's ground stations, or, like, they, you know, the users couldn't roam from one to the other. Uh, like, we were Google, like, we should be able to solve that. And so the, the, the theory was internally when we were setting out to build the software stack, it was like, well, maybe we could do twice as much work once, but, um, build one system instead of four with, like, the four internal customers we have.

So, um, talk, talk to me about this kind of non-geostationary kind of network problem where, you know, the users, you know, users aren't aren't just moving, but you mentioned, you know, network in motion, so the network itself is moving. So, talk to me a little bit about why that has become a bigger and bigger challenge over the years.

Yeah. Right. So, one of the hallmarks of these aerospace and defense and satellite communications networks, uh, is is directivity. Meaning, like, when you want to get a lot of data at a long distance, uh, you focus the energy at the receiver. It's like the analogy I make for people is, if you're trying to talk to a friend that's, uh, like, a long distance away across the room or, or outside, uh, we all kind of cup our hands up to our mouth and we shout. And that's because, uh, if we didn't do that, uh, we'd waste energy going in all directions. And, uh, we can talk, you know, we can communicate better further if we focus the energy, if we shape the energy that we're transmitting at a, at a finite power level, like at the receiver. We want it to, uh, aerospace and defense systems use directivity in wireless also for reducing the probability of intercept and jam and detect. So, it's like the same reason you put your hands up to whisper to somebody. By doing that and shaping the energy away from them, you're limiting how much energy goes to receivers.

Right. So, this is one of these big differences.

Versus, like, versus, like, a, like, a Wi-Fi network, which is like, yes, you know, spreading all over and can be easily detected and hacked and jammed and—

Exactly. Like, like, why, like, your Wi-Fi, your cell phone, you know, they're giving off energy more like a light bulb. The energy is going in all directions, which is, which is great at short ranges, or if you don't have that much data to get through, uh, if you're okay with low data rates, like for LoRaWAN or how your smart meter works, right? Very little data needs to get through. So, it goes over long distances the same way, blasting the energy off in all directions. Those energies, those networks where, where the energy is going in all directions, make them much easier for you to detect, you know, like the Wi-Fi networks nearby and, and have things join and discover, or for the networks to, like, self-organize. You, you know, devices can make a list of all the wireless devices they hear and tell their neighbors who they hear and so on and so on and so on to build a view and a picture of what's around.

But when the beams are like, really focused and, and shaped and, and narrow and directional, uh, that doesn't work anymore, right? You need something in the network to be this sort of coordinating entity to tell the different beams where to point, when, and when they should, like, change and point at something else. Uh, and, and what frequencies to use, when, and, and how to route data across all of these things. So, you know, you can just imagine in your mind aircraft or drones flying around, if, if instead of light bulbs on them, they had laser pointers, right? And you can imagine an aircraft banks and now the, the wing is obstructing the laser to another aircraft, right? You have all this changing geometry, all this changing motion, all these changing obstructions that create a lot of complexity for how you build and operate a mesh of those things.

And, um, cracking that, uh, was what we set out to do at, at Google because we had four of them, and we thought, well, maybe we can just solve it once. But it turns out that by doing that, uh, we solved it for all land, sea, air, and space. And we didn't really realize that our little microcosm in Google of having a satellite program, a couple of unmanned aerial vehicles, some terrestrial stuff, was sort of this small microcosm of what, you know, probably your, your listeners or readers of Tectonic and other things think about with, like, JADC2 and all-domain networking for DoD, like the unification of land, sea, and space networks has been something that's been worked on for 40 years, uh, without, uh, being cracked. And, uh, you know, we were, we were working on it for, for a commercial reason of connecting the unconnected and, and for just internal use inside of the Alphabet family of companies. Uh, but it turned out to have a lot of wide applications.

Yeah. Okay. Well, there's a lot, there's a lot there we got to unpack. So, we, we'll come back to this idea of the network in motion and how it relates to commercial and, and national security. And I, I know you're already talking about Tightbeam as far as your, uh, the technology goes. So, let's, let's pause on that for just a second. I do want to talk, go, let's go back to Loon. Um, so, if I have my timelines correct, Google winds down Loon, I think, in 2021. Um, you end up then, uh, taking a job and I think Facebook or Meta Connectivity. Then you hear that the technology has a second life. What, talk to me about what happens there because there was a brief kind of gap where you were working on the technology and then, then you weren't, but then you were again.

Yeah, that's right. You know, and there was a, um, you know, an amazing group of people, um, you know, at, at Google and, and Alphabet and X, you know, all worked to build, um, the software that we now call Spacetime. And in Google, it was called Mantis, you know, which is the naming is sort of a reference that was Einstein's professor and the father of the concept of spacetime. And, uh, Project Mantis was was an amazing group of of software engineers who, um, you know, started with a couple of us with the idea and, uh, kind of self-drafted into the project. We all started building it. And I think when we found out that, uh, that Alphabet was winding down, you know, Loon, um, you know, people move on and found new projects to work on, some within, outside Google and Alphabet, others, you know, went to other places. Some of our engineers went to Amazon Kuiper, or myself, I went to Facebook Connectivity. But I think universally, people looked back fondly and said, like, man, this is one of the greatest things I ever worked on. Uh, and, and I really loved this team. And so, uh, not only was it kind of my baby and, um, I missed working on it from something I really believed needs to exist for the world, uh, but I missed the team that I was working with, too.

Uh, so at Meta, yeah, I was, um, you know, I had left because they were winding it down, and there was an interesting opportunity over at, over at Facebook Connectivity, which, by the way, that group is amazing over there, too. Uh, maybe people don't realize, they, they build things and just give them away. They just open source everything to try to make connectivity cheaper for the world. Uh, they're building like open source cellular stacks, open source cellular radios, Wi-Fi systems, and, um, just, just giving them away and open sourcing them with the Linux Foundation. So, it's a pretty amazing, uh, mission, and I was over there working. And, and yeah, I heard from, uh, someone in Google Corporate Development, and then I also heard from, uh, our lead investor, Arthur Patterson, and, uh, my, my colleague and our current CEO and, and co-founder, Chris Taylor, who, uh, were putting together an effort to spin the technology out of Google and, and, and acquire it with a new venture-backed company, uh, which was really, really exciting. Of course, I, I jumped at the occasion to be part of that.

I'll say the folks at Meta were just amazing about it. The process took a while, as you can imagine. Google's really great at acquiring things, but they can take a while to divest things, so they don't do that as often. So, it, it took a, took a bit, uh, to get that transaction done. But, um, but it was really exciting, and the, the team at Meta understood that this was a real passion project for me and could not have been, um, more generous about, um, affording me the kind of the opportunity to see it through and then, and then understanding when I ultimately wanted to, to go and pursue it. And, and the last point I want to make about this is how humbling it was where so many people from the original team were willing to, to leave sometimes jobs they had only been in for a short amount of time to sort of put the band back together.

Yeah.

Which was just really incredible.

Yeah, that's great. I mean, it kind of speaks to, you know, what might on the surface sound like a, I don't want to call it a, I mean, it is on its surface, even a complex problem, but when you get into, like, what it could ultimately do for communication and connectivity, I mean, it's pretty significant, which we'll, which we'll get into. But I want to talk back, let's go back to Tightbeam. So, so, um, Tightbeam is more of the, the hardware side of the, um, of the company, and that traces back to what you'd mentioned earlier, Lawrence Livermore National Lab. Um, talk to me about maybe a little bit of that, and then how it all kind of comes together.

Yeah, there was a, um, an amazing, amazing guy named, uh, Tony Rugiiero, uh, from, from Lawrence Livermore National Labs. And, you know, I, I, um, I knew Tony and he was a friend, um, he's, he's passed away, uh, sadly, but he, um, was really passionate about solving this problem of making laser communications work well through, through atmosphere. And had spun the tech out of the lab, and Google had acquired, acquired Sierra Photonics, uh, I think it was around 2013, 2014, and incubated this technology in the Office of the CTO for a while. Uh, this was sort of more of a long-term bet. I mentioned we were working on Loon, and we were working on other unmanned airborne systems and satellite systems, and, uh, Google understood that if these projects were successful and they continued to scale, eventually the feeder links, the links back to the earth, to the air and space layer, would become bottlenecks. And, and we see this now in commercial constellations and, and what's happening with mega constellations like Starlink and Kuiper, and they see the same thing that these feeder links will, will eventually need to increase in capacity and at some point become the bottleneck in sellable capacity. And said, hey, this is something we want to bet on and incubate for a while.

Uh, it's interesting, Alphabet actually had a couple, two different, uh, laser communications projects. Uh, one of them in X, now Terra, was really focused on how do you do this affordably? How do you really make an impact in, uh, emerging markets, uh, with very affordable, uh, but resilient free-space optics. This other group, more came from a national labs heritage, pursuing aerospace and defense, quite exquisite, expensive, higher size, weight, mass, payload, um, projects, but, uh, going for really high data rates. So, nothing less than 100 gigabits per second through atmosphere is really the focus.

And, so, uh, when the transaction was occurring, yeah.

Can you maybe just talk to me about the importance of that statement there, 100 gigabits per second through the atmosphere? I mean, that's fiber-like speeds, effectively, right?

Right. 20 gigs, right? 20 gigabyte file transferred in a second. Pretty astonishing data rates. But this is important for our industry. Uh, because if you think about the trends going on, right? Um, you want higher resolution imagery of the earth, right? Uh, it helps to be lower in altitude. You want to serve more megabits per second per square kilometer, it helps to be lower in altitude. Uh, but the lower you get, the more the satellites need to proliferate. We're going from hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands of LEO satellites in these constellations. And so what was a ratio of maybe one to one, where each satellite had its own dedicated ground station, right? These ratios are changing. Two, the world's two-thirds oceans, right? So, we can't have a ground station under every one of those thousands or tens of thousands of satellites. Uh, we have to have inter-satellite links to route the data back to relatively few ground stations compared to the number of satellites.

So, take however much data these satellites are generating, whether they're doing imagery or earth science or, um, communications, and then take the ratio of those satellites to the places that it's economically feasible to have fiber to them to deploy these ground stations. Maybe it's 40 to 1, maybe it's 60 to 1. Well, now you need 60 times the capacity, right, for the average data being generated per satellite for the feeder link, right, for that link back to the ground station. So, you need these high data rates, right? It becomes more and more important because it has to handle the capacity now of 40, 60 plus serving satellites.

So, my silly question is just going to be, you know, if you had two Tightbeam terminals pointing at each other, that would be the equivalent of if you ran fiber, you know, throughout those two distances, right?

Yeah. Right. At 100 gigs.

Yeah.

At 100 gigs. Yeah. Pretty, pretty, pretty interesting. Okay. So,

Photos on the on the website of, you know, of, um, this little ball, right? It's like the size of a, of a, you know, of like a, like a volleyball, like descending from the fuselage of an aircraft and then spinning and locking with a terminal on the ground and then moving data at these fiber-like speeds from 100 kilometers away.

Yep.

Okay. So, so, um, Valyria, you get the band back together. Like, what's your kind of mandate as CTO, right? What's your mandate at that point?

Well, the first, yeah, the first order of business is get the software running again. Uh, you know, we built this stuff in Google to run on Google's internal infrastructure, which is like what Google Cloud runs on. And so when you spin it out and you get all your source code again, it doesn't even run. Uh, so first order of business is like, band's back together, build the tech stack, get it running again, get it booting again, because, uh, start demoing to customers and start, start landing some opportun, uh, landing some business. And pretty soon, we found both commercial and, and some government ones, um, uh, commercially, uh, with our partners at Telesat, who've been really amazing, uh, and we had done some work with them when we were still part of Google. And then, um, our first contract with the US government was with the US Defense Innovation Unit.

So, Spacetime, you'd been working on for quite a bit within sort of the Google infrastructure. Tightbeam formed the Lawrence Livermore National Lab, but like, as you guys were, as you guys formed Valyria, like, how mature is Tightbeam at that point? Is that, is, is it pretty much a—

Yeah. So, I mentioned that the bet was made on Tightbeam and, and a lot of the, the thesis is on this space-to-ground feeder links being a bottleneck. But, um, in, in the history of those seven years at Google, the space projects we were working on, you know, sort of, uh, were wound down earlier, and the ones that lived the longest and saw production deployment were like airborne or Loon. And so when it spins out, we get one of Google's test aircraft. We've got a building with our labs, but it's an airborne, uh, terminal, right? Uh, it can be mounted on aircraft. You know, we have air-to-ground, uh, links and demonstrations and hundreds of flights and landings. Um, but, you know, you can, you could consider it, um, you know, something that's probably like TRL, you know, seven or eight, sort of thing. It's, uh, it's like, sort of on its fifth or generation at that point. We're now on our sixth generation of terminals, uh, there. So, premature, uh, test ranges that run all the time, but work to do to spin another iteration of terminals to make them even better, even more resilient, to be able to survive even more atmosphere. Uh, we want to integrate them with Spacetime so that, you know, Spacetime is sort of the brain, the network operation system that supports anyone's hardware. But certainly now that we're a combined company, you want your hardware to kind of come with the printer driver for the operating system, so to speak. You want it to, like, be plug-and-play for your customer. So, doing the work to hook that up.

Yeah. So, that's a good way to put it. Okay. So, let's take a quick step back, especially for anyone who might be listening who might be lost. Um, which, actually, I think you've done a great job so far. So, hopefully, that's not that many people, or hopefully, it's none. But, okay, taking a step back. So, um, Spacetime really is the software orchestration layer for all of these different networks that run on all the different, you know, types of source code, which we'll talk about in a second because I do want to get into that. Um, and then Tightbeam is the actual terminal that then can, you know, you can use for specific communication. Um, why can't current satellite and defense networks do what Spacetime does right now? Like, what is the, what was, what is the breakthrough? And what, how has it been done so far?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, people operate, uh, LEO and MEO constellations today that don't use Spacetime, right? And the way that they're doing it today, and the way they always have done it, is by usually having the spacecraft manufacturer build custom software that they deliver with the satellites that is hard-coded at, in the source code, to leverage what simplifications they can about specific orbits, specific frequencies, specific antennas. Maybe if you're a MEO constellation, you just go around the equator. That geometry just keeps repeating. So, the schedule could repeat forever, but that's not true in LEO constellations, for example. Uh, and so, um, if you can use that simplification, you'll take it. These things are complicated enough, right? Uh, everyone has enough risk on their hands when they're building a system like this. And so, every person that's building one of these networks is embarking on, you know, a, a sizable engineering team to build and, and deliver to whoever is going to operate the network, the brain of the network that's coded for that network.

Okay. Uh, what is that? What's the downside of that? The downside would be, uh, one, this is an investment that everyone has to keep making over and over again, right? Which just adds costs and increases barriers to entry in our industry. But the second problem is that, uh, when, when you're, you're trying to unify these networks or make them interconnect with each other, right? Um, you know, I've noted to others that, like, the DoD has had slide decks that have icons of planes and ships and satellites with little lightning bolts between them proposing the unification of land, sea, and space networks, and hasn't pulled it off for a long time. We, we attribute kind of the primary reason for that is that all of the systems and platforms that they've procured have come from prime contractors with these bespoke, vertically integrated, hard-coded operation systems and brains that only work, you know, for those, uh, fleets of equipment with those obstructions, with those antennas. And when you want to say, okay, I need these two systems to both analyze when they could communicate, when they could point a radio or a laser beam at each other, when they're flying past each other, and schedule a moment to, like, tunnel into another one's network and tunnel across it. Like, they can't. They only know when their, where their obstructions are. They don't, they don't understand where the other vehicles would be. They don't have a way to speak the same language to each other to exchange information about such things.

And so, one of the things that's really changed in Valyria in our business since spinning out and our engagement with the market is that while people very much appreciate the opportunity of, like, buying a system and not having to build it again, the part that's been an even bigger unlock recently has been the power that that unlocks for their networks to talk to other networks and to, and to broker when they could federate or interconnect, connect, and tunnel across each other to do networks of networks. It's sort of like a secondary benefit, and it's a true network effect.

I'm no, I'm not an engineer, so, um, we can, I'm sure you can get very technical on this next question, but I am curious, like, this whole kind of dynamic of having different architectures with different source codes talk to each other without modification is pretty significant. 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how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, 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It's actually more important to do it the other direction. And the reason is most of us download more than we upload, right? It's changing a bit like you know when we're doing this podcast or we're doing you know doing another application. Yeah. It's more symmetric but on average most of us download more than we upload. If you use cable modem internet or something right it's always like 50 megabits down 5 megabits up things like that right.

>> Y >> and so for you to support that on the user side you have to be able to send more data up on the feeder link than you pull down.

>> Right. Because forward direction. Um, so I want to talk about adoption a little bit, right? Because like for spacetime to work as this kind of like godlike orchestration layer. You probably don't like that I called it godlike, but some type of orchestration layer around all of these different technologies, right? It it needs to at at some point turn into some type of standard, right? It needs to become a common standard. Like do you like and tell me if you disagree with that. Like how do you how do you see that working in practice? Especially when you're talking about I mean like again going back to Jazzy 2 like you're talking about these primes right where it's like not going to be easy to like integrate with those primes like how do you think about how this becomes a standard?

>> Yeah. And and what we what we've what we've been evangelizing is the our product does not need to become ubiquitous and a standard. Of course, we'd welcome that commercially, but we think that's an audacious thing to say is that for this for the world to solve the inner network of networks in motion and for the world to kind of unlock the internet of flying moving things, everyone has to use this one product like I don't think that would be a that would point to maybe a flawed architecture that was our assertions. Are there other companies that are

>> so well instead what we've done is we've we've said no let's make the interfaces open right the APIs the language that these things use to speak to one another and so rather than a single godlike orchestrator you can think of the actual architecture is that each network gets its own brain right its own you know orchestrator and and and um and we kind of define in compass directions, if you will. North, south, and then like east/west. North means the interface that enterprise and mission applications use to talk to the orchestrator. So this in a defense construct, this is like the battle management layer says I need connectivity from this war fighter to there or I need connectivity from this sensor to this shooter. for commercial internet. That's the system that keeps track of who's paid their bill and who bought your service. It says, "Hey, I need 50 megabits down, five megabits up from this house to the nearest internet exchange point." That's our northbound interface. The southbound one is the one that talks to the antennas and the satellite payloads and the ground stations. And then the east west one is what allows those brains to talk to other network brains to let the network operation systems other network operations of a third party network or any number of third party networks. So that's sort of the spaceime talking to spaceime, right? NASA's space-time instance talking to Tellesat's spaceime instance because all of those APIs are open. Um, anyone can build integrations to it, but it also means anyone else can replace us if they want to. And for the northbound and the east west, our APIs I would say are the best um kind of the only standard at least being tabled that supports all the use cases we've discussed. For the southbound interface, we offer two flavors. One is the one that we developed at Google and have open sourced and the other one is um the O-ran interface for 5G and 6G non-aterrestrial networks which is a fast emerging standard um that's just starting to get adopted.

Yeah. Um, can you maybe at a high level just talk to me a little bit about the work that you're doing within with the the in the defense industry specifically? I mean, you're working on a number of times. You mentioned DIU. I know you're doing work on the hybrid space architecture. Like at a high level, tell us a little bit about what you're working on.

Yeah, the hybrid space architecture um is an initiative that's really chartered with facilitating the inner networking of US defense intelligence community, civil space exploration agencies, commercial space companies, and allied governments. So, it's really anyone you can think of that's that's operating a space network and making those things interoperate and inner network. There's a few dimensions to it. some that we aren't solving like making laser terminals compatible with each other like right now Amazon and SpaceX and different laser terminals and different spacecraft aren't compatible. There's efforts outside of Ayria to come up with a common standard or have translator satellites that intermediate. There's other ones to have the radios be interoperable like 5G and 6G non-aterrestrial networking and other virtualization projects going on. But the the the component that we're working on is these software interfaces, right? to let the software that orchestrates one network be able to talk to the software that orchestrates another and to have open software interfaces so that anyone can develop and plug in and develop hardware. And so our work with the US defense innovation unit has sort of had, you know, a dozen or more other government offices and agencies who have signed contracts with Ayria to do paid pilots and demonstrations, some of which now are are transitioning, you know, towards production work. And then we also had a successful um pilot with NASA uh recently uh for their near space network.

>> And then what about um on the so on the commercial side? I know you're doing some work with Telesat Light Speed.

>> Yeah, right. The teleset um light speeded constellation is a low earth orbit satellite constellation um fully funded um launches are are are scheduled and manifested. So it's it's very real and um we've already delivered spaceime continue delivering at a steady cadence to that customer um adding all the um additional features needed for their network which has some really novel um attributes some of which are are pretty neat um things that are even differentiated over Starlink they they're really targeting um enterprise like medium to large enterprise I think don't want to speak for them but um Tellesat light speeded has this cool property where where any terminal on the network can create connectivity over the laser mesh to any other terminal um without going through a ground station which is really neat. I don't I don't think Starlink supports that. So like if you had a bunch of ships at sea for example that wanted to make their own private land um they could form that over the teleset light speeded laser mesh without ever touching the shore. Um which is really cool. and and um and you know and you probably imagine that that any to any routing that we have to solve with spaceime um is is more challenging than solving the routing where all the traffic goes to and from a ground station.

>> So um with the remaining time we have left I do um I I want to talk about the um the funding round and and what's next. So, you raised hundred billion dollars, $1.3 billion post. Um, I think Google is still retaining a stake in Ayaria, a minority stake. Um, uh, my notes here, my notes here of Battery Ventures led the round and then J2 Ventures and Dine or a couple other investors who who participated and I'm sure there's, uh, others, but um, tell me about that round and and I know you mentioned Arthur Patterson in the beginning of the conversation, which I assume this is the Arthur Patterson who founded Excel.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> Um, so so you have a a good group of investors now um, around the table. Um but yeah, tell us about the round like how did it come together and and where is that capital going into for the ne over the next couple years?

>> Yeah. Right. Um yeah, we're we're really excited, an amazing group of investors. Um uh and they've just been wonderful and everyone brings um different perspectives that are all valuable and we have an amazing um board of adviserss as well. you know, Vince Surf, the father of the internet, um other really notable um people um senior backgrounds in the US government and elsewhere. So, we're really blessed that between our our investors, our board, our board of adviserss, just like couldn't couldn't have better support in terms of where we're using the capital. You kind of think of it in maybe a couple broad categories. You know, one is on the spaceime on the software side. We just need to scale the team. I think generally our team is like been waiting for this round to close because we've been managing cash and burn as a startup does um you know till this next trunch of investment and needing to staff up and hire um we joke that we're sold out of spaceime um that you know each of these onboardings and these trials um you know it's like okay when you get to the point where you're you're trying to time phase um your next trial um to be able to support the onboarding of the customer like that's that's the inflection point I think every investor wants in a series B where, you know, you just need to scale because demand's so high. Um, of course, there's new features for 5G and 6G non-aterrestrial networking. If any of your listeners are going to be at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, we'll have a booth. Stop by. There's going to be an awesome demonstration of SpaceTime integrating with real vendor non-aterrestrial networking, 6G, 5G base stations. It's super cool. Um, so that's where that capital's going on the software side. On the hardware side, um it's to support, you know, our existing contracts um with some of our our pilots of tight beam with some of our government customers, but also to expand um the use cases. We talked before about how we we aspire to do um um the space to ground to ground to space links. um you know there's there's work there and then there's also work to demonstrate um you know air to air air to sea um um land to air to air to sea these sort of use cases um with some of our customers there too. So it's sort of to expand expand the breadth of what we're doing with with laser communications through the atmosphere.

>> What are um what are the next kind of big milestones whether it's contractual or technical that folks should be looking out for?

>> Yeah, I think um there's there's a couple neat ones. Um you know, we're looking to um really kick off some of the demonstrations at scale of the hybrid space architecture um really soon. um this ability to dynamically um coordinate whether in space interconnections and relays or between um hybrid satcom terminals and different satellite networks to kind of make the roaming experience feel a lot more like what roaming feels like on all of our cell phones um where the the the adjustments of service plans or the provisioning of connectivity happens within seconds to minutes. you don't have to sort of pre- buy a monthly or annual plan in order to roam from one network to another when you didn't plan it in advance. We're looking to really demonstrate that um at scale and and make it durable, have it be things that we leave on um for us and our government partners for use in all the different operational exercises the government has. Um you know, we're we're excited about our work with NASA and um the work we're doing there. And I think there's, you know, things that we have going on that, you know, should result in announcements, um soon um about some definitive uses, um by some of our customers.

>> What, uh, keeps you up at night?

>> Yeah, I mean, it was this race, right? Um, you know, it was it was until now, of course, um, hey, you know, everyone wants um everyone wants to get the raise done so that we can, um we can turn it up to 11 on scaling. um and now we're there. So, we got a new set of challenges now. It's it's um it's maintaining our talent density and our high bar for talent. Um one thing I care a lot about is our engineering pedigree and our culture at Ayria. we have this great group of people from top tech companies that um and I think we're able to do a lot with um a relatively small team because of that talent bar and culture and so scaling quickly onboarding people without breaking that culture is a new new set of challenges and I think that's that's what I'm thinking most about right now.

What's the um what's the long-term vision for Aaria? Call it 10 years from now, like assuming you guys execute well, what does the business look like?

>> Yeah. Well, I think um uh if it wasn't obvious to folks, you know, the the laser communication part of Ayria and the the software side of Ayria are actually, I think, much more synergistic than a lot of people realize. Um, the part that's intuitive to everyone is that laser communications between Earth and space um only works if you can change the ground station when there's bad weather at one to use a different optical ground station where the weather's better. But the part that a lot of folks miss is that when you do that, sometimes the laser changes needs to change to use um an adjacent satellite for that link that it didn't use before. You move the you move the la ground station a thousand kilometers to the east or to the west to find better weather. Sometimes it's to a different satellite than before. And when you do that all the inter satellite routing has to change in space. The allocation of users to user links change. Um, you can't go to market with optical ground stations without spaceime or something like it being a platform used by both the ground network and the customer in space. Maybe those are the same organization. Maybe they're different organizations in some business models. So I think when you look to say where is Ayria going, we're going to bring those things together in the future um to make that reality possible for our customers and we're also going to do more work helping um these constellations and airborne um networks be able to better coordinate with one another for more more efficiency.

When you're not figuring out network orchestration and and laser beams, like what do you do for fun?

Most of my time outside of work goes um you know to trying to be a good a good father and and husband. I've got three young kids um you know they're they're um 8, 10, and and 12 years old right now. And so it's a it's a busy phase of life, but a very enriching phase of life. Um, you know, I've got lots of sporting events to go to and um and and hanging out with with um with some good friends and families um in the area. So yeah, mostly that.

Well, that that that was a great answer, but I still want to hear a hobby. Like, give me a Brian hobby, like something that like like, you know, maybe not a lot of people know about.

>> Okay.

>> That you enjoy doing.

>> Yeah. I um I've been getting into to trap and ski shooting lately.

>> There we go.

>> Yeah. So, if anybody's anybody's um yeah, in the area um yeah would enjoy that. actually um at our one of our investors um annual investment summit um wouldn't even know it but at the end of their their annual summit they announced that they um they had a shooting event afterwards for all the LPs and the the founders and um I think it was something they didn't know about me. So like you know like I I went out and um and u ended up getting top on the tournament which I'm not that great of a shooter but I think it was just everyone else was

>> was was even worse.

>> Um, but I joked with them last time that um you know next year they should make you know they should Yeah. push put some stakes on it. You know tie tie some investment or secondary to it or something like that.

>> Exactly.

>> Exactly. Exactly. No, that's great. That's good to know. That's good to know. Well um uh well for anyone who's into ski shooting definitely link up with Brian.

>> I've tried. I've I've tried. I'm not very good. So I would say maybe me but you know I don't want to embarrass myself.

So Brian, um, thanks so much for being with us. It's great. Um, I know this I know this is going to be a complex topic, but I thought you did a great job, going through all of it in in detail and in a way that I think makes a ton of sense. So very excited for what you guys have built. Congratulations on the round again. Thank you.

>> Um, and excited to see how the company develops and and and have you back in the future.

>> Sounds good. Thanks, Mo.