Transcription
Hello people. I hope you are all well and safe, given all the circumstances that are swirling around us today. We're gonna do a little talk about the Cova testing that's available, because it is awfully darn confusing, if you ask me. So I thought I'd try to shed a little bit of light on it, and maybe from a functional medicine perspective, to make it a little more interesting. So let's take a look here.
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Okay, so here's, here's the basics with Kovid testing, and I want to talk about it in different ways as much as we can from a big-picture viewpoint. Okay, so number one, oh, wait, I'm supposed to introduce myself. Hang on, sorry, getting carried away. So, um, for those who that don't know me, my name is Dan Kalish. I've been doing functional medicine for 28 years. Been in practice for a long time. I run a training program, I creatively call it the Kalish Institute. I've done all kinds of things in my career. I've published a research study with the Mayo Clinic on the Kalish method, where we looked at whether I, what I do really works or not. Mayo Clinic, poof, gave me a stamp of approval. That was pretty cool. I'm on the IFM faculty, which is a great privilege. I'm their lead faculty member at the Institute for Functional Medicine. It's kind of like the Harvard of functional medicine. I teach their practice implementation courses, and that's been a great honor. My mentor right now, Richard Lord, is the lead scientist in our whole industry, and I get to work with Richard a couple times a week. So I've become, you know, devoted to functional medicine, I guess. I've devoted my life to functional medicine, and I've been able to achieve a lot professionally, primarily by focusing on two things. One is, how can we really help patients survive, you know, the current climate of conventional medicine and environmental degradation and issues we all face, and, you know, following a part of our food supply and all that kind of stuff. And then, um, and then secondarily, through the Kalish Institute, you know, how can I really help other functional medicine doctors get practices going? So about half my time, I spend with patients on the phone. I have a telehealth practice. I talk with people on the phone all over the world. That's this ad here, right? And then the other half of my time is spent training doctors and doing doctor education for how to practice functional medicine. That's kind of my gig, right?
So anyways, let's get back to the talk here. So, um, essential tests, Cova 19. So there's two big-picture purposes. One is personal, entirely personal, is about you and your health and your concerns. And the other is probably more important for all of us in the big picture, is the public health aspect of this. Okay.
So there's three general types of tests. Three general types. And those three tests are categories are diagnostic. So diagnostic means you're determining if you have Cova 19 or coronavirus, right now, SARS virus two, whatever you want to call it, but Cova is just an easier way to say it. Do you have the active infection right now, okay, or not? And why do we do those diagnostic tests? Because you want to know if someone has the infection, you want to keep an eye on them, you want to quarantine them, you want to make sure they have access to healthcare if they need it quickly, because they could get really, really sick. And of course, you also have a public health aspect to the diagnostic testing, because the people that have it need to get away from people that don't have it, or we're in trouble, right?
So there's also non-diagnostic testing. And the non-diagnostic tests, the famous ones are called an antibody test. Those determine if you've been exposed or not. And those are useful for understanding who has it, so who has had it, right? Who might get it in the future. There's a lot of controversy as to whether we get immunity against this thing. But, you know, if you can get exposed to it and you can get it again, like a month or two later, we're good. You know, in some pretty serious trouble here. If you look at all the other viruses that are similar, when you get it, you have a little bit of time where you're not going to get it again. Your immune system does a little bit of work here. So we're hoping that that's the case with this virus. And if not, then basically we're all going to die, and it's, you know, the end of humanity, right? There's no kind of immunity whatsoever. That means the vaccines aren't going to work either. That means we're all just going to get Cova until the whole thing is over. So I don't think that's gonna happen. I'm an optimist. I think that there's gonna be some level of immunity. I think vaccines are eventually gonna work. And what we need now is to be able to test and determine who's been exposed and who hasn't for public health reasons, right? So we have a general sense of how this thing is spreading and what we can do about it.
And then the third category of testing is what I do, which is preventive. And that is, what do you do to prevent yourself from getting this thing in the first place? How can you strengthen your immune response so that this is an infection that you can fight off, or that if you do acquire it, that you have minimal symptoms, right? One of the things you can do to get your body ready so you either defeat it before it becomes a problem, or once it becomes a problem, you'll be able to handle it in a way that doesn't send you to the hospital. And if you've been exposed to it and you're tired and you have problems with your lungs, you know, what are we going to do post-infection to repair your system? That's really where the testing that I do comes into play. Now, we are doing some of the other testing in my clinic now with patients as well, but primarily my interest is on prevention of this virus in the first place.
So there's two different types of immunity. One's called innate and one is called adaptive. So innate immunity, defined as nonspecific defense mechanisms that come into play immediately or within hours. So that should be with out, within hours of exposure to the bug. So I like to watch a lot of history shows and read about history. So think about Carthage under siege, you know, a couple hundred BC. What were their defenses like? They had moats, they have rivers, they had walls, they had castle things, they had, you know, who knows what to keep, you know, physical barriers, right, to keep the bad guys out. It's not the best example because Carthage actually was sacked, but anyways, you get the idea, right? So our immune immune system, when it comes to innate immunity, includes physical barriers like your skin. It includes the chemical responses in your blood, and includes immune cells that go out and attack. Okay.
There's also what's called adaptive immunity. I think if this is more like a smart bomb, instead of like a moat or a castle wall, it just keeps everything out. Adaptive immunity is very specific. And we've all seen these videos on TV where there's a terrorist driving or something bad is happening in the world, the US thinks is bad, and we send in a smart bomb and poof, thing just blows up, right? So that's adaptive immunity. It's very specific. It's guided to a specific target. It's way more complex than innate immunity. You have to identify the bug first, just like they do in the CIA movies, or you see, oh, there's a person we're going to blow up, boom, right? You have to identify it first, very complex. And then once you identify it, your body is going to make antibodies. These are proteins. You can make these proteins called antibodies to go out and target it, poof, kill it. And then hopefully, your body has a memory of these antibodies, and it's going to be able to make them, and it's going to continue to make them, right? So if you're exposed to the bug again, you'll be able to fight it off. So that's adaptive immunity versus innate immunity. And they both are important for different reasons, and they coordinate. Innate immunity over the shorter term, adaptive immunity over longer term. And you'll be hearing these technical words a lot: B lymphocytes, T lymphocytes, antibodies, NK cells, and all these kinds of things are going to become, you know, common in the news and in our lives for the next couple of years.
So with a virus specifically, as with any infection, this is true for all infections, the goal is just to prevent the thing from happening in the first place. You don't even want to get this. You want to have such a great immune response all the time that you just defeat this bug before it gets a foothold. Okay. Plan B, if you're not able to do that, if your immune system is weak, or for some reason you're susceptible, your exposure is extreme, maybe you're a bus driver and people are coughing on you every day, or you're a public health nurse and you're in a clinic or with Cova patients every day. I mean, there's reasons why people might get this that are in addition to the fact that, you know, immune systems in the United States are pretty weak, right? So as a backup, you want to make sure that the severity of the infection, if you do acquire it, is going to be reduced. And then the last resort is that we want to help people in recovery. So a bunch of different options here on the testing side. All right.
In order to fight a virus, you can test and correct the immune system function through functional medicine. That's my primary job. And that would happen first. You would get your vitamin D, vitamin A, vitamin C levels up to adequate based on the lab. We would get your zinc levels, test them, get them up to adequate based on the lab. And dosages and ranges and all that are going to vary widely depending on what your functional medicine labs say. If your functional medicine labs say you're low in zinc, that's a crisis when it comes to fighting Cova. You should take a lot of zinc. If your functional medicine labs say your zinc levels are great, you just need a little bit of zinc, right? So the treatments here are going to vary widely depending on functional medicine assessments in terms of how to strengthen your immune system or correct any deficiencies that are in your body right now.
Okay. The second level here, B, is to test for the presence of an infection using PCR. Okay, that's polymerase chain reaction testing. That's done typically, you read about it in the news, mostly now through a swab. They also have PCR through saliva that's now available. If you've read about that, they're starting to do these tests in New Jersey. One of the lab companies that I work with, Doctors Data, is going to get these saliva tests. They already have the kits, they're just doing the validation data. So salivary testing for PCR is going to become widespread as well. It's a lot better than getting this q-tip thing jammed way up your nose, right? Wouldn't be unpleasant. And they just came out with antigen testing also, which is a miracle and a good thing. They, they see a fragment of the actual organism with the antigen test. So those tests, PCR swab or saliva, and antigen, are all only going to be positive if you have the bug at the moment you did the test. The most promising, obviously, would be salivary because it's more convenient, just spit into a tube and they find out. Or the antigen is gonna be a game-changer once that becomes available. Okay, so those are all coming on the market now.
And then the last section here, C, is to test generally for past exposure using an antibody test. And they fancy word for this is serology. That just means they take a blood draw or a finger prick, where you prick your finger and if you put a few drops of blood on a card, okay? So those are for past exposure. The PCR swab or salivary or antigen is for current, current infection. And then we have the functional medicine testing as well.
So a little more detail. You want to basically, why is testing important? And well, well, we'll talk about the accuracy thing in a minute. It's a little frustrating how accurate these tests are not. Now, but let's talk about why this is so important. You want to figure out the state of an individual's immune response to exposure, like, have you been around this bug or not? You want to assess whether a person is contagious and needs to be quarantined. Do you actually have it right now? Danger, danger, danger. We need to get you away from other people that don't have it. And then you need to decide if someone is immune and can go back into society, back into work. Wait, there the major category here would be frontline healthcare workers, like my first wife, who's a public health nurse. If she becomes antibody positive and she's two weeks or three weeks antibody positive, she knows she's had the positive antibodies, it's been two or three weeks, then it would be less risky for her to work with all the homeless people with Cova that she is working with right now. Okay. So we're going to want to know this for nurses and doctors that are on the frontline. And have nothing but respect for them, you know, and, you know, this is just a horrible situation that they're in. And I have, you know, I don't want to talk about it, but it's a lot going on in in San Francisco right now. The homeless population and Cova, okay, it's just a living, living or dying nightmare. It's just bad, bad, bad. Okay. So we want to make sure those people are protected. We need to figure that out. Now, you may also want to know if we're antibody positive or not. Maybe you're gonna go, we want to visit your grandmother or your mother who has cancer or a lung condition or something, and you're worried about giving it to her. Knowing your antibody status is going to make a big difference in the future. You also want the testing so that we can do that, what they call contact tracing. You can figure out who's giving it to who and track all these people down so it doesn't spread as quickly. And then from a public health perspective, we just need to understand how this disease is playing out so we can get a grip on preventing it from becoming an even more of a nightmare, right?
So then here are the different kinds of tests that are available and some of the detail on them. Okay, again, there's the PCR test, there's the antibody test. There's a nice little chart about who benefits, but the key points here are, it is both individual and public health benefits to these various tests. And what we're really interested in is a public health benefit, because public health is what's going to stop this thing, right?
So now here's, if you're curious, then specifically about how these tests play out over time, and if you do the wrong test at the wrong time, it's not going to give you the intended result. All right. So here's the PCR testing, viral DNA, virus, or viral RNA. And you can see that your, here's the time frame here, okay? So over the course of three weeks. So here's the first seven days, here's the second week, and here's the third week. That's the bottom part of the graph. So, and this is time after the onset of symptoms, right? So you can see for each of these tests, there's a peak moment, and then a moment where things trail off and it becomes harder and harder to find. So for example, right here, in those first, look at the markers here, those first three, four, five days after infection, these particular tests like the viral RNA or PCR test and the viral culture are the most active. But a few weeks after you've been exposed, look how they drop down and they're not very active, right? They're not very accurate. So timing on this makes a really big difference.
Now, if you look at the antibody tests, membrane antibodies are proteins, IgG and IgM. You see how different they are as well. So they are not very accurate in the very beginning at diagnosing, I'm sorry, at determining whether you've been exposed or not, right? But they're very accurate as time goes on, right when the PCR tests are becoming less accurate, right? So again, we're looking for, does a person have the infection right now? And you have to test at a certain time early on to figure that out. So imagine that you test it and you had the infection for three weeks, but you didn't know that you were exposed to it. You had no symptoms. The PCR test would very likely not show anything, but the antibody test would very likely show something, especially IgG. So depending on how far into the exposure you are, these various tests can be helpful in different ways. And remember that certain number of people that get this infection don't have any symptoms. So you don't have symptoms to track this. It makes it a little more confusing. But the standard sort of long-term stability factor here is IgG. See how IgG goes up after a week or two and then it becomes, it stays stable, right? So IgG in the long term is going to be the one that helps us the most. IgM, which is the other antibody, goes up sooner than IgG, but it doesn't stay up very long. So IgM levels show a more recent infection. IgG is the one that's going to be the most stable over time. So depending on your goal, trying to find out when you got it, or how long you've got it, or if it's the beginning of a symptom or not, these various tests can come in handy in different ways. Okay.
And then in terms of timing, time of exposure to the symptom development can range from two to 21 days. So if you were around it, say you got on an airplane and a person that was sitting next to you had Cova 19, it could be anywhere from two days to three weeks before you have symptoms. 90% of people who develop symptoms do so within the first couple weeks. So if you're exposed to someone who you know has Cova, there's a 90% chance if you're gonna have problems, it's gonna happen in the first couple of weeks. However, 10% of people don't develop any problems until week three. So really, it's 21 days until you know for sure. Most of the quarantines that I've seen all throughout the world are for two weeks. That's because 90% of people are gonna have symptoms within two weeks, but 10% of those people aren't. Okay. So 10% of those people are gonna have symptoms in the third week. So that's just something to be aware of if you think you've been exposed. A lot of people never develop symptoms at all, but may still develop antibodies. The timing and level of antibodies is unknown for these people. We just don't know yet. It's just not, obviously, it's hard to track people that don't have it because they don't know they have it and they're not getting tested as often. So this has to be something that we figure out again through public health measures over time. It's not going to be something that we figure out super fast. Okay.
Again, on the timing, viral shedding can begin three to 21 days after exposure. Okay, that means you're shedding the virus and other people can get it. Viral RNA shedding can occur in your mouth and throat, back of your nose, right, for up to 20 days after symptomatic resolution. And then testing evaluates viral DNA, not the shedding of the intact virus. And it appears that intact viral shedding is complete about 14 days after symptoms begin. Now, the antibody timing, we looked at that chart a moment ago. Antibody production begins about five to 14 days after symptoms. And then the timing is going to vary depending on individuals. We don't know enough about it yet to be able to tell exactly, but the median antibody production is around the two-week mark, about 15 days after exposure.
So then this gets a little depressing. About who's trying to get through the sciency part of this all, right? And then I'll take questions at the end, too. Okay. The accuracy of these tests. To understand the accuracy of the test, there's some technical terms. How likely is a test going to be to get a true or accurate result? So there's a couple of characteristics. There's sensitivity, okay? There's a term called sensitivity, and then there's a term called specificity. So sensitivity refers to the percentage of truly infected individuals will test positive. Okay, truly infected individuals will test positive. Sensitivity. Specificity is the percentage of truly uninfected people who are going to test negative. And there's some double negatives in here that get a little confusing. So I have a couple of slides on this. Sensitivity shows how well a test gets the proportion of true positives, right, and avoids what they call a false negative, right? That is super, super important. You don't want to miss. Specificity shows how well the test detects the proportion of true negatives, true negatives. So you have one here showing, do you have a false positive or not? I'm sorry, false negative or not, right? So what you don't want to have in terms of sensitivity, don't want to have someone who has the virus but the test shows that they look like they're okay. So imagine that you're, you're gonna get on an airplane. There's a hundred people in line at the airport that get on the plane, alright? And there's a hundred people in there. They've all gotten tested for this virus. And the sensitivity of the test is 90%. That means there could be 10 people potentially that are, you know, gonna get a false negative, meaning that they're testing negative, right, even though they have the virus or have had it, right? So that, that is not a good thing. Even if one person got on the plane, the sensitivity is really important. You need sensitivity at 100%. Even if it's at 99%, there could be one person getting on that plane that has it, that spreads it to the rest of the people in the plane. So sensitivity getting to 100 is important. The specificity is important for different reasons, right? This shows how well the test detects the proportion of true negatives, people who truly don't have it. There's different risks associated with this test being wrong with this aspect of a test, right? So if the specificity is off, you're gonna have a problem with the opposite end of the spectrum. And when you see these tests rated here, you're gonna see that they, and you're gonna be reading about this in the paper probably for the next couple years, the sensitivity and specificity of a test. I got some here, we go, a chart on this here. The sensitivity and specificity of a test is really going to be really matter. So Abbott is claiming right now that they have a test that's out, brand new, that's 100% sensitive. That means they don't miss anybody that has it, right? There's no false negatives. And 99.5% specific. Yeah, that's pretty good. And you can see down here, there's another company, Epitope, that claims that they're at 100 and 100. Whereas most of these other companies, and this is just one list that I pulled off one of the FDA websites, that are in between, right? Like, we, you know, 88% versus 90%. You can see how sketchy this can get pretty quickly if you're talking about a specific situation like a bunch of people getting on a plane. However, from a public health perspective, if you're testing thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, it's slightly different with the numbers, right? In terms of, you know, of course, you still want really, really accurate testing. But for an individual, they're going to be concerns a little bit different than just from a demographic perspective. So testing is important. Now, that's my point, right? Even though it may not be totally accurate as it can be, and as it gets more and more accurate, we'll be able to do more and more because you'll be able to, for example, get on a plane with certainty knowing that everyone else that gets on the plane also has antibodies and knowing that there were, you know, that those are accurate tests, right? So just want to be aware of the time here, so don't go too long.
Now, this other kind of factor comes up. And the math here is a little complicated, but I'll just kind of step through it quickly. Prevalence of Cova 19, estimated at around 5% of the US. At this low level, the risk of false positives becomes a major problem. Okay, if a blood test, serological test, has 90% specificity, right, its positive predictive value would be around 32%, meaning 70% of the positive results will be false. I know the math on here is a little complicated. I'm not a math major either, but the bottom line here is that if you have a specificity, I'm sorry, if you have a sensitivity marker that's not at 100%, and you have a very small number of people that actually have it, you have a lot of positive results that are wrong. And there's another chart here that shows you, they call this, there's a term for this, they call it the negative predictive value, right, or positive predictive value. Okay. And when you look at it that way, it gets a little demoralizing. And you can see the numbers here. I find it's a little depressing myself. But for example, if, what's a good example here? They say the sensitivity and specificity is 99%, right? You can end up with percentages like here, where the probability that the disease is not present when the test is positive can be 16%. You can even get to the point where if your sensitivity and specificity are in the 95% range, you get these probability factors that are more like 50%. Okay. And that has to do with the fact that so few people have the actual disease. As more and more people have the disease, these numbers will get more and more accurate. So the main point of this part is just to explain that, okay, yeah, the testing is not that accurate. We're still working on it, but we still want to run a lot of these tests because as they get more accurate, we're gonna get more and more public health information. It's going to make more and more sense. And as more and more people get infected, the data is gonna make more and more sense as well. Okay. So we are in a period now where it looks a little sketchy with the testing, but it's going to get better. And we want to test, test, test, test. That's why everyone's saying that because you can see here the probability factors go from like 50% right with a test that gets much more sensitivity and specificity gets better, you can get these markers that are more like, you know, 16% or 0.01%. Okay. So it gets better and better as we get more people that have the infection and as the sensitivity and specificity gets more accurate.
Okay. Then there are a bunch of different samples. So you can do the nasal swabs, you can do saliva, they can do blood work, they can do finger prick testing. There's even some stool testing available. I don't think too many people are doing that, but it is available. And there's all kinds of different ways that you can do this test. And depending on if you want to look at the antibodies, whether you want to try to diagnose whether the person has the active infection at the time you're doing the test. And obviously, the main thrust of all this is going to be oriented around antibody testing so that we know how many people have been exposed, who's been exposed, and and what the next steps are going to be in terms of being able to get people out into the communities again with less risk.
So I'm talking for a moment about the tests that I run for assessing your immune system. Okay. And these are ways that we would prevent people from getting sick in the first place. DHEA levels are never more important than that, right? This is the ultimate immune modulator. And we want to test DHEA levels on everybody. If your levels are low, you can safely take small amounts, very small amounts of DHEA. If your DHEA levels are normal, you probably don't want to take it. Okay. Immune regulation also of mucosal membrane tissues. These are the lip barrier or lining tissues. We were talking about innate versus acquired immunity, right? So the mucosal membrane tissues, the lining tissues of the body, have this stuff called secretory IgA, which is our first line immune defense against viruses. So you want to test all this, make sure that your immune integrity is strong, your mucosal membrane production of secretory IgA is strong. That's like ground zero in preventing this thing from even getting into your body in the first place. If you have really great secretory IgA and really great mucosal membrane integrity, your body is going to stop the virus before it gets into your tissues. That's very important.
And then assessment for the most common related, the common immune-related deficiencies. And for that, I run these ION panels. We look at zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin A, essential fatty acids, prostaglandin precursors, antibody precursors, how you make all this stuff. Okay. And some of the most essential nutrients for a very strong immune response are going to be proteins or amino acids. That's how we make these antibodies. They're made from amino acids. Fatty acids are very important for regulation of the inflammatory response and the immune response. Vitamin D, A, and C, those guys go out and just shred viruses. They're like killers of viruses, the way they activate your immune system. Your immune system then goes out and just shreds and kills things. So does zinc and selenium. Okay. Those are key nutrients. So I run these ION panels as well as the DHEA tests on patients. And we're looking at things like zinc and selenium. Now, again, if your zinc levels are normal, like this patient's, then you need some zinc to help fight this thing off. If your zinc levels are very low, you're in some deep doo-doo, right? You want to get those markers up so that your zinc levels come up. So there's different ways that you can supplement with zinc, selenium, vitamin D, vitamin A, depending on where your levels are of all these markers. Same thing here. You can see we test everybody for vitamin A. If your vitamin A levels are good, you need a certain amount of vitamin A just for maintenance. If your vitamin A levels are very low, then that's a mission-critical nutrient to take in a high dose to get your levels up. You don't want to take a high dose of vitamin A unless you know that your levels are compromised. Okay. Small dosages are okay. Same thing with fatty acids. There's a series of fatty acids, omega-3 and omega-6 fats, that regulate your immune system. And if they're low, like you can see right here, you need to take them. Or here's another low one, to get those levels back up. If they're in the normal ranges, then you can take a certain amount of three omega-3s just to keep your immune system going. If you're extremely low like this, you have to double or triple the dosage to get a clinical effect so that you can reregulate your immune response. And we see the same things going over with vitamin D and all the other nutrients that we do.
Okay. You guys are interested, you can schedule a free 15-minute consult at kisswellness.com. You can talk to my health coach about working with us in a little more detail. We are also offering Cova 19 antibody tests. We have a couple different versions of them from a couple different labs. And as I tried to show on this talk, you know, it's a little bit of a wild, wild west right now. There's a lot of companies, I think maybe 200 companies running these tests. The FDA is just in the process of trying to rein it all in and get some coherence to the way they're allowing companies to run the labs. I'm trying to work with the best labs that I know, that lab companies that I've worked with for several decades that are running the tests. And everyone's basically trying to do the best they can. All the labs that I work with are running, you know, seven days a week, doing these Cova antibody tests and trying to get the best test kits and the best reagents to get the most accurate results. But, you know, we're still in the very beginnings of this process of figuring out what to do. And, you know, I think it's going to be a little while until this is all sorted out.
I also have put together what I call Dan's Mom's Immune Pack, because it's the stuff I gave to my mom. We're gonna actually interview my mom one of these, one of these weeks for Facebook Live or something. But anyways, Mom is 83. Mom is a public health nurse. Mom has COPD, right? She has a lung problem, as well as asthma. Not so great. And so as soon as this thing happened, I got a big box of supplements for my mother, put them together and brought them over to her place. And this was back in March. And she was exposed to Cova 19. The woman that cleans her apartment was diagnosed with Cova 19. And so this woman had been in my mom's apartment, you know, for a couple weeks in a row, doing this some housecleaning stuff. So anyways, my sisters and I were totally paranoid that this was the end of our mother. And then, of course, I talked to my mom every day now. And she's like, well, I'm fine, Danny. I'm taking your supplements and I feel great. If she's convinced herself that, you know, all this glutathione I gave her has made it so she can fight off anything. But anyway, she was exposed to it. She's doing great. We're all rooting for her, obviously, my sisters and I, because that was kind of nerve-wracking. But I do believe in these supplements being quite powerful as a way to, like with my mother, just stop this thing from even getting started. So if you are exposed, you'll help be one of those people that has minimal or no symptoms. Once you're symptomatic and once you're in the hospital, you know, you're in a whole different category of bad. And we just make sure we try to prevent that.
All right, so let me just see if there are any questions. Let's see. Leo had a question here. If you're getting tests, IgG, how to determine that it's due for Cova versus some other factor? Yeah, it's IgG levels for this particular virus, yeah, for the SARS-CoV-2, whatever they call it. You know, let's see. Someone ran a bit when a bunch of tests to see. Yeah, I don't think any, I mean, I think we're in a process right now where all the lab companies are just beginning to try to figure out how to accurately test people. And I don't know that anyone's, you know, operating at 100% 100% of the time right now. I think it's gonna be a couple more months until we get that. How can you arrange new testing on nutrients at my place? Yeah, just contact the office here. Office at dr. kaylis.com. If you're interested in doing that. And if you're already a patient, we can just order a bunch of labs for you right away. And if you're not a patient yet, you can do a free 15-minute consult and talk to somebody about it. See, oh, hey Kaz, Kaz from New Zealand, who is a country who is Cova-free. We're very happy about that.
All right, I'm gonna wrap it up for now. I probably, I promised everyone I'd try to keep this to 20 minutes or a little bit over. But we'll have more talks like this coming up if you guys are interested in more information, you can contact the office. Okay, stay safe everyone. Talk to you soon.