How to stop overspending | The Dark Side of Holiday Spending You Won't Admit

We all know the holidays are supposed to be about connection and joy, but let's be for real. We often get pressure to buy, buy, buy, especially during the holiday season. So, before you fall into the consumerism trap, what if we focus on what truly matters instead of overspending?

So, in today's episode, I have Paige Pritcher, who's a spending coach. And you might be familiar because I've already had a conversation with her about emotional spending, but this time, we're focusing on the holidays, the consumerism trap, why we often want to buy, buy, buy during this time of the year, and really focusing on connection and the true meaning of the holidays. So, I hope you guys enjoy the episode.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the podcast. I am so excited because this is not an unfamiliar face. You guys loved Paige's previous episode where we talked about emotional spending, impulsive spending, and just like the community aspect of our purchasing and what that means to us and like why we often get influenced. She gives us a lot of tangible tips. So, I wanted to bring her in because a lot of you have asked for this video on how to make sure that you're getting the most out of the holidays and not feel like you're constantly having to buy, buy, buy. Um, so Paige, I'm so excited that you're here.

Thank you for having me back. Seriously, I'm honored to be back. I think that this is such an important conversation to be having because this is the time of year that the spending always seems to get us. So, it's the perfect time to have this conversation.

Yeah, so briefly, for those who haven't gotten introduced to you, what do you do and who do you help?

I'm Paige Pritchard. I'm the founder of Overcoming Overspending, which is an online community where I work with women specifically who are really struggling with their spending habits. They're doing a lot of impulsive shopping, overspending, emotional shopping. So, I tend to work with women who, they make good money, right? Like, the making money part of the equation of the money equation has never really been their issue. They are just in this cycle of constantly spending right up to that point and sometimes even overspending and getting themselves into credit card debt. I myself have really struggled with this in the past in my younger 20s. And when I kind of reached my breaking point and was like, "Okay, I've got to do something about this. If I keep spending like this, I'm going to be broke for the rest of my life." When I went out to actually start finding solutions to this problem, I just felt like the solutions to really address why I was doing what I was doing were very surface-level, and they were very much so Band-Aid solutions. And they were really coming from people that I felt like I couldn't relate to and didn't understand me and my life. AKA, a bunch of like older men that were just telling me, "Unsubscribe from emails," and, "You know, do this and do that," and, "Just stop doing it." And I'm like, "Thank you, that's so very helpful." So, I set out to really kind of find my own solutions. And I feel like in the past five years, five to ten years, which from a historical context is like a blink of an eye, very recent, I just feel like this issue has just become so big for people with the pandemic, with social media, with advancements in technology. Like, just think about how much Amazon has and and the internet has changed how we shop and consume. And so, this is a space where I'm like, "People are struggling, no one is talking about it, and no one really has solutions that addresses all the more complex things that are happening underneath the surface." To your point, like the social media, the comparison that happens, perfectionism, mental health struggles, just trying to keep up with the Joneses. So, that's why I felt really passionately that someone needed to go out and be having these conversations and be providing solutions. And so, I'm really thrilled to be that person. It's my passion. I just truly feel like it's what I've been put on this Earth to do, and it's what I talk about all day, every day.

Just spending. I love it.

Yeah, and I'm so glad that you're in this space, you know, to support people in this journey. Because even as we talk at, you know, this episode, or we're kind of primarily talking about the holidays, um, it's such a vulnerable time for people. Like, I just think, I, I made the decision last year in November to, um, get off TikTok and delete TikTok. And I feel like it has been so freeing. But even in deleting TikTok, right? Like, I still use Instagram, and I can still see these videos come up on fall trends, fall decor, people getting ready for fall, setting up for fall, or setting up for the holidays, right? Like, and it can feel like, "Oh my gosh, there's something I have to do, right? Like, I have to get these things. I have to like, I'm feeling the pressure of just like, if I don't participate, I'm not like truly, you know, celebrating the season." So, I'm curious for you, like, what is your perspective on how consumerism looks like in the holidays, and why do you think it's like so powerful during this time?

Yeah, I think that you touched on so many things that we can like dive deeper into, but you're absolutely right that like, if we were just to kind of chart like our spending or consumption or just like consumerism in general, it would be like, January through September, you might see little peaks and valleys here or whatever. And then it gets to like, probably, I I don't know, I would say like mid-September, maybe even September, like after Labor Day, and it just like starts to like shoot up after that. And it's really fascinating because there actually is something in the marketing world that the retailers and the marketers refer to us as as the consumers during this period of time. They call us the end-of-year consumer. And the end-of-year consumer is a consumer that is kind of like black and white from how you tend to consume for the first part of the year. The end-of-year consumer is a consumer that is very loosey-goosey. That is in a mindset of like, "Okay, we're in the home stretch. We kind of start to see that fresh start of a new year kind of like coming around the corner there. We're like, "Okay, we're almost there. Like, January will be here in a blink of an eye." And so, we really do kind of get into this mindset, not only with money, but with a lot of things, right? With how we consume food, with how we consume alcohol, where we're just kind of in this mindset of, "I'm going to do what I want, spend what I want, buy what I want, eat what I want, drink what I want." And all of this overconsumption is going to be like, next year's problem, right? So, I think that's one factor. I think it's a factor of we're winding down this time period, we start to see that fresh start kind of coming around the corner, and it's kind of like, like, you know, like when you're in high school, they call it like senioritis, like your senior year, where you just kind of like phone it in because you're like, "I'm almost there. Like, I'm almost graduation." There's something about the human psychology that when we see like the end of the road or we see that fresh start, like mentally, it just becomes so much easier for us to just check out of everything and just to say, like, we get into that almost like very, this is kind of a strong word, but it really kind of is this like very entitled mindset of like, "I can just do what I want for the next four months, and like none of it matters, and I'll just clean up this mess next year." Then couple that with a lot of the things that you said, where it's just there's fall, there's Halloween, and then there's Thanksgiving, even more fall, and then we go into the holiday season with Christmas, and it's just this season that's just jam-packed with decor and gifts and presents and events and hosting people, and we need outfits, and we need food, and we need stuff to decorate our porches with, and we need presents to gift to people, and we need stuff to wrap those presents in, and we have the cards, and then we need the outfits for the cards that we're going to wear in the pictures. And it's like, there's truly all these things. I mean, I think when a lot of people think about this time of year, they really just focus on the gift part of it. But when I'm telling people to really plan for this, this period of time, I always tell people, pull up your bank statements or your credit card statements from last year. Like, go pull up, like, October, November, December, and just look at 90 days of transactions. And I want you to make a list of everything that you spent money on that's related to this season, even if it's like, you know, taking your kids to the pumpkin patch, buying pumpkins, like pumpkins that you're going to carve and like put on your front. Like, there's really just so much that we that we spend money on this, this time of year. And a lot of it's so nostalgic. I mean, I mean, I think that if you asked most people, I think if you walked up to 100 strangers on the street and you asked them, "What's your favorite time of year?" I bet you 90% of people would say this time of year. Like, there really just is something about this time of year that just is so like nostalgic and feels so amazing. And with that comes a lot of the things or the activities or the ambiance that makes it so special, and a lot of that is tied to what we're buying and spending.

Mmm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I, I, I also think on a mental health, like perspective, like that's when I get the busiest too with clients, cuz they're visiting family. I think there's like a lot of, a lot of emotions that come up that are just, I'm just trying to survive, and I'm just trying to escape. And I think shopping and, you know, engaging in all these things is a form of escapism from our reality. Because Thanksgiving comes, and we feel like we have an obligation to be around family members that we don't always see them. So, we make this excuse of like, "Well, it's just one day, right? So, I'm going to overconsume on the alcohol, overconsume on the food, right?" There's, I always say this, like, a good thing can always be, can always get to a bad thing if we overdo it. Like, anything, like exercise, food, anything. Um, and I think that's where we have a very hard time of just being mindful of like, at what point do we find our threshold of tolerance where we're not doing it just to eliminate an uncomfortable emotion? Because you're not eliminating it, right? It's like you're just putting it to the side.

Yeah, you're completely right. This, and I, I, I think that's actually a really important point to note is that for a lot of people, this period of time is really happy and is very nostalgic. And then you have a lot of other people where it's not, right? There's, there's a lot of, you know, family pain that's happening or emotional pain that's happening. There's, there could be trauma tied to this period of time. And so, instead of it being this like happy time, it's actually a very difficult time. And you're absolutely right, using shopping or consumption as a form of numbing or as a form of escape is a very real thing. I see it all the time in my world. And so, you have to be conscious about that as well, of, "Am I using my my spending and my shopping as a form to really kind of mask an emotion, a difficult emotion that I don't really want to be feeling right now? And am I just using the shopping and consumption as a form of like covering up that emotion and really just kind of like prolonging it to a different time, like into the future, pushing it into the future, not actually dealing with it and processing it, versus handling those emotions in a healthy way?" Which I know is something that you probably help your clients with a lot. But I think it's important to note that well, that this time also isn't like rainbows and butterflies for everyone as well. It can be hard.

Yeah, I think it's easy to from the outside to see it as that because I think that's how people portray it. Like they, uh, see like, "Look at all the Amazon boxes I've gotten," or, "Look at all of the holiday fall decor." But we don't really know like what's happening in their lives, right? We're only seeing like the, the overconsumption, the getting hyped for the holiday. Like, we're not seeing all, like, "Well, is this because it's your job to to market these things? Or is it because I don't, maybe you're so, you're so much in credit card debt that you're just like, I've just, like you said, for lack of a better phrase, it's like the bucket mentality, right? Of like, "Oh, well, whatever, January 1st, we'll we'll deal with that problem." Or almost like this obligation or cultural norm of like, "This is just what you do. You buy gifts, you decorate." Like, "This is what you just do." If you don't do it, how is that going to look like? Like, if you don't put lights out at your home? Yes, how is that going to look like?

You're so right. And I'm so glad that we're taking the conversation here because I think this is actually really important to think about during this time of year. Of, I think when you come into adulthood, and I know this, like, kind of sounds maybe silly, like, kind of maybe like a silly thing to do, but I actually think it's a really important exercise that not only will probably, for, I think for a lot of people, end up saving you a ton of money, but also just make this time of year more enjoyable because it's going to be more authentic to you. Is, I think that when we come into adulthood, exactly what you said, we have all of these ideas in our head about what the perfect holiday season looks like and what it should be. And that perfect view comes from a lot of different places. It can come from the way that your family did things and how things were traditionally done. And now with social media, a lot of it comes from how other people do things, right? Like how other people are decorating their homes or their houses or dressing their children, or if they do Christmas cards, or like, whatever. And so, we get it in our head that, let's just be honest, especially as women, not all, but generally speaking, in a lot of situations, are kind of like the elves in the background that are like making all of this happen. Not in all families, but in a lot of families, that tends to be the case. It's like, it's all of this is being set up by the women. So, it's really important for you to just spend some time, maybe if you're listening to this and you haven't given some thought to this, just go on a silent walk, or maybe just give yourself some time, or you can just kind of sit in silence and think about this, or maybe journal this out. But really ask yourself, "How can I create a holiday season that is going to feel good to me?" And I think sometimes the easiest place to start with that is to actually pinpoint and identify the things that you traditionally do during this time that actually don't feel very good. So, I'll give you some examples. For us personally, one thing that we, and when I say we, I mean my husband and I and like my family, we have one daughter. We don't do Christmas cards. Like, I love getting Christmas cards from people, but I literally have zero desire to make a Christmas card for our family. Like, I, it's just not my thing. Like, to be honest with you, it's like, send me all your Christmas cards, I love them, I love seeing your gorgeous families, I just don't want to do it. Like, I just don't want to. I don't care. And so, there was a time where I remember being like, "We should do a Christmas card. We should do it." And my reason for that was because that's what I thought like, "You should be doing." I was like, "Well, we get all these Christmas cards from all these other families, like from my friends and, you know, people from here and there and whatever." And so, we need to do one as well because they're sending us one and we need to have one to send to them. And that's just like one example of like, one little thing. But, you know, Christmas cards, between if you hire a photographer and, you know, buying outfits for people, and then the cards, and then the postage, hundreds of dollars probably on average, you know? And so, I'm just like, that was just like one clear example to me where I was like, "I'm not going to do this thing just because I feel like I should do it because that's what good moms do during the holidays, or that's just what you do during the holidays." And maybe for you, it's some sort of gift-giving tradition, maybe for you, it's some sort of event, maybe for you, it's, you know, some sort of decor, right? Where you're just like, "The decor is getting out of hand, and it's becoming more stressful than it's even worth." You really have to stop yourself and challenge yourself on, "What am I doing during this time of year simply because I feel obligated to do it?" And I think that if you ask yourself that question, I think all of us could probably come up with at least a couple of things. And if you were doing something during this time of year out of a place of obligation, stop. Like, whether it costs money or not, which many of these things actually do end up costing us a lot of money, and if they don't end up costing us money, they end up costing us our mental and emotional well-being. Stop. Like, stop doing it. You're not going to be a bad mom. You're not going to be a bad family member. You're not going to be a bad person if you slow down and you say, like, "You know what? I'm not going to do this simply because I do not want to." Like, that is a good enough reason not to do something. Simply just because you don't want to do it. So, you've got to get this. Like, I work with a lot of women who are like, like, especially moms and they have kids and stuff, or they're married or like, whatever. They, they're like, "Christmas has to be perfect, right?" Like, we've been sold this idea that like, your duty, especially as a woman, is to create this like perfectly curated holiday experience for your family where there's presents, and the house is perfectly decorated, and the lights are out, and the tree is perfect, and you're baking all of the the perfect treats. And it's just like, stop. Like, stop putting so much pressure on yourself. If you want to do those things from a genuine place of like, "I love it. I want to do this. This brings me so much happiness and joy." Knock yourself out. But if you start to sense that like resentment energy, that's where you have to be like, "Whoa, whoa." Like, that's the first like red flag where you start to kind of start to feel that resentment energy where you're like, "Whoa." I'll give you another one. This is, I think by the end of this, you might be like, "Man, Paige is kind of the Scrooge." This is just Christmas parties. That's another one that we don't do. We don't go to Christmas parties. I, I'm not like a party person. I just, like, I'm very introverted. I just, I don't know, like, H, like when my husband and I both worked corporate, like, you know, you have like your corporate like Christmas parties. Like, we just like never went to them because neither of us really wanted to. And, and, you know, it's like hiring the babysitter, buy, you know, like this idea, I got to buy the outfit to go. So, they just like, challenge everything. Question everything. And really try to make this year, like, "Okay, I'm going to do this year how I want to do it." Just try it for one year. That's my challenge. Just, it's like, do it for one year. One year won't kill you. And just get through this one year and see how it feels.

Yeah, I love that. I would even add to that, like, journal prompt: What would happen if you went without Christmas cards? What would happen if you went without going to that corporate party? Like, what would happen? And what would you do if that happened? Right? If that thing that you fear happened, right? Because I feel like often we feel like it's an obligation, or we're seeking validation for who we are as moms, as women, as, you know, daughters, or whatever. Right? We have to do these things because this is what a good mom would do. This is what a good mom would do for their kids. Um, when their kids, like, like one or two years old, they're like, "I'm not even going to remember my first Christmas besides the picture that you showed me." When, you know, when older. So, like, I'm very much like that where it's like, if they're not going to remember, like, especially too, it's like, where am I at financially too? Like, you, you mentioned earlier, like, make sure that you're looking at your bank statements prior to that. But I think also, like, looking at your financial situation right now, too. Because I had this conversation with a client about, um, them being in debt, and they're like, "Well, I'm having to, there's all these things that are coming up." And I'm like, instead of saying like, "These all these things that are coming up," they don't have to be a problem. Like, these things don't have to be a problem. But we made them a problem because we made them a necessity, an obligation to participate in these things. Like, Christmas shouldn't be a problem. If you're in debt, debt should be the problem that you need to tackle. It's not, "How am I going to get Christmas presents?" It's, "How am I going to get out of this debt so I could stop feeling this way so that next year I could feel like I can participate in a way that doesn't, you know, drown me or feel like an obligation or it's not intentional joy, it's more so because it's an obligation." Meanwhile, I'm drowning. And I feel like that's the cycle for a lot of people. I don't know if in your experience, where it's like, they can't get off the cycle because they feel that there's these obligations. And it's like, they don't realize like the, the actual problem is not the Christmas, like making sure I have money for Christmas presents. It's more so like making sure that I've fixed my spending habits so that I'm able to be mindful of when Christmas does come and I do want to give gifts because maybe that's your love language, that you have the plan to be able to do so in a way that feels, um, sustainable for you. Because I feel like a lot of people just, "Well, we have to buy them so and so needs a present."

Yeah, you're totally right. This is really important too. I call this kind of like being onto your own BS, honestly, that your brain wants to offer to you about like, "Well, we have to, we have to, like, we have to do this, we have to do that." And it's like, you don't though. You don't. Like, let's just be brutally honest with ourselves and say, and, and it's okay that if your truth is, "I, I want to, like, I really want to do this thing." But we've got to stop telling ourselves things that aren't actually the truth. Because when you tell yourself, like, "Well, I have to," there's just no other option to, like, doing things differently in a different path forward will be completely shut off to you. You, you won't even see it as an option when you're essentially lying to yourself and telling yourself, like, "Well, I have to do these things that you don't actually have to do." So, what I always tell people from the financial perspective of the holiday season is, first of all, just think back to as many holiday seasons as you can remember. And really see if you can pick up on any patterns of like, "How has this gone in the past? Or does this typically go a certain way during the holidays?" Meaning, I am spending a ton of money during this period of time, and then I get into January, and I'm bringing all of this credit card debt with me into a new year, and then I'm like, frantically trying to pay it off at the first part of the year. And then it's just, every year, that's the cycle, right? So, like, I'm bringing credit card debt in from the previous holiday season, I pay it off, and then I'm like, "Okay, we got that done." And then I blink, and then we're right back to where we were. And that cycle just keeps happening over and over and over. I want to say this, that if you're listening to this episode right now, with the timing, depending on when you're listening to this, you might have to have a year where you do things a lot differently than previous years to break yourself out of that cycle. So, for instance, if you're listening to this episode, and let's say it's November or even December, right? And maybe you've already started shopping, or like, shopping is right around the corner, and you know that you don't have the money to be buying these things, and you're just going to repeat the cycle that you've always repeated of, "I'm going to rack up the credit card debt, and that'll be next year's problem." This is your chance and your opportunity this year to say, "I'm going to break the cycle this year. I am not going to allow this cycle to continue every single year where I stress myself out and I'm bringing last year's problems into a new year." But what that's going to require of you this year is it's going to require you to do things a lot differently and probably stop spending money and not doing a lot of things that in past years you're used to doing. Now, here's the thing, when you get into next year, that doesn't mean that you can't go back to doing things the way that you've always done them if you want to, right? Like, if you do things differently this year, and you're like, "Oh, but I really actually do want to do this thing. I do want to do that thing. I really like it." Well, then next year, you're going to have an entire year because you've done things differently this year, you haven't racked up all the credit card debt, you're not having that follow you into next year. Instead of starting in a whole next year, you're going to be starting on level ground, which then you have an entire year, or probably at least like a, you know, nine or ten months to actually start getting ready for the next holiday season to where you can be like, "Okay, so typically in a holiday season, let's just say you spend across everything, right? All said and done, the dust settles, you're like, I spent $2,500 this holiday season." Well, now you know. Now you can start a fresh year being like, "Okay, well, the goal is for me to be proactive, think ahead, and start putting aside $2,500 for next holiday season so that the next holiday season comes, and I can go back to doing things the way that I've always done them without having to rely on credit card debt to float me through the holiday season." But like I said, a lot of people don't want to do that because they don't want to have the year where they change things, where they break that cycle, where they get themselves out of this like, "Dig in a hole, dig myself back out, dig in a hole, dig myself back out." And I just want to say this, like, the perfect holiday season, it's, it's not a thing. It's not real. It's made up. Like, it's made up in magazines. It's made up in media. It's made up in movies. But like, you ultimately get to decide what the perfect holiday season looks like. And you can just decide. You can just decide, like, even though we're not doing this thing and this thing and this thing, or this is going to be different, or we're not going to have as many guests as we've had in the past, it can still be perfect. Perfection is literally just a choice that you make in your brain. It's just a decision. It's just literally a thought. It's a thought of, "This is perfect." This is perfect. And you can have that thought with all of the things that you're used to doing, and you can also have that thought with things being totally different. Like, perfection isn't this like thing in the outside world that you need to go chase and aspire to. It's an internal decision where you just decide, like, "Things are perfect exactly as they are." But pay attention to your patterns. And if you're in those patterns of like, digging the hole, getting out, digging the hole, getting out, there's going to be a, if, if you want to stop this pattern, if you're like, "I am sick of this. It's so stressful. I do not want to do this anymore." There's going to be a year where you're going to have to be like, "This is a year that we break the cycle." And it might be uncomfortable, but it will be worth it. And you also have to remember, it's one year. It's one, it's one year. It's one holiday season. And if I can just do it this one year, in this one holiday season, all the rest get to be stress-free, debt-free. I don't have to worry about the financial stress of it. If I can just do things differently this one year.

Yeah, because you're telling your brain that you're able to build the resilience to overcome a temporary uncomfortableness. And all that comes, because I know we're talking it as a big thing, as just like this one big, one emotion. But I know that there's like so many different emotions tied to like choosing not to do gifts, choosing not to do all these other things, right? Choosing to focus on other things. Like, it is hard. It's like, like change. Like, people are so resistant to change because it, like, a lot of things will change, right? Like, it's like, not just one change for them. It doesn't feel like just one change. It feels like so many different changes, especially if we're dealing with, like, family or something, you know? Especially if we're dealing with a lot of factors, um, based on our decision. But like, as you said, when we're making these choices, like, one, we're able to recognize that we have a choice. We have autonomy. This is something we can actually control. It doesn't control us, right? We can be influenced, but at the end of the day, we get the choice to make the decision to purchase the thing or to go about our the season the same way. You know, I like the saying, like, "Nothing, nothing changes if nothing changes." Right? And like, if you could choose temporary uncomfortableness for long-term stress relief for you to also grow the muscle of like, "Okay, I can do this." And you'll just be a better problem solver because you've gotten data now that proves to your brain that, "Oh, even when you're," you were saying something of like perfectionism, it's like, "What you make of it, right?" So, a lot of us people who have like, who struggle with their mental health, is usually tied to like, just inflexibility because they're so rigid on the choices. But maybe rigid on what perfection means, right? Instead of identifying like, "Oh, I can change the meaning of this and the intention of this based on what works for my lifestyle, based on my values, based on what's going to make me feel better." But we then, but they put themselves in a box. And so, that inflexibility causes them to make, to feel stuck, right? And to feel like they can't make these changes. So, to your point, it's like, you will be better off the more flexible you are to make these uncomfortable choices, the better your mental health is, and the better mindset you'll be a year from now, you know, to be able to do this the way you want would want to do it without.

Yeah, what I always tell people about this time of year to kind of echo that is, if you were somebody who's having a really hard time with this, like letting go of certain things because you're telling yourself that these are things that have to happen or these are things that have to be there in order for the holiday season to be perfect, quote unquote. An exercise that I went through myself, and when we're talking about this, I have a lot of people go through, is I'm like, "I want you to think about, like, oftentimes what I find with this is a lot of us just have like, this time period is rooted in a lot of memories and it's rooted in a lot of the past and it's rooted in like, 'Oh, well, you know, um, this is how it was for me,' or 'My parents did this, so I need to do it too,' or whatever." But, but I always had people, I'm like, "Think about the holiday season when you were a kid, and I want you to think about how it felt to you as a kid, right? Like, the feeling of it." Okay, I think what we do is we very closely associate like stuff to feelings, or like external things to feelings, where we're like, "I have to have all of these things done and right and perfect in order for like me to feel like I'm having a good holiday season, or my kids to to feel like they're having the perfect holiday season." But I'm like, at least for me, this is true for me, when I think about the holiday season when I was little, it was a lot less to do about like the things and the stuff and the events or the gifts or any of that, and it was really just like a feeling. It was just like a feeling during that time of year. And that's all we're after, right? Like feelings. It's all we want. It's all we crave. It's all we're after. And so, I think you can really ask yourself, "Is it possible?" This is another good journal prompt because again, you really have to challenge your brain here. You have to ask really good questions and open up your brain to explore possibilities and see new outcomes that right now it's probably kind of closed off to. But asking and answering the question, "How can I create or curate a holiday season or a holiday experience that feels good on the inside, but it doesn't require a lot of things to change externally?" Is it possible that I can still have a holiday season that feels amazing and I don't have the lights outside, or the house isn't decorated to the nines, or whatever? Asking yourself that question. And I just want to make this point too, is that again, there's no right or wrong answer here. So, I don't want people to hear me say that and and hear me say, like, "You shouldn't be spending money on these things." I'm more so talking to the people who, you know, that you were overspending during this time, like, you know that you were spending beyond your means, you know that you were spending too much, you know that you were harming future financial you, and you were digging yourself into that hole, and you know that you need to do less, spend less, consume less to dig yourself out of that hole, and you're having a lot of resistance to that because your brain wants to tell you, "Well, if we don't do those things, then the holiday season isn't going to be what it normally is, or it's not going to be perfect or whatever." So, then you have to start challenging, "How can I create a holiday season that feels the same, but it's not requiring all of these things of me out here in the external world, and it's not requiring me to go out and spend beyond my means?" If you want to do it, if you can afford it, if the money is there, if you are doing it from a genuine place of want to, and again, the money is there and you can afford it, knock yourself out. Like, truly, like, knock yourself out. It's your money. Old time. Yeah, but, you know, it's like for the people who aren't in that position, who you're like, "You're you're trying to live up to this like expectation or this image, but you know in your heart of hearts like you really either can't afford it, or you're really doing a lot of damage to your financial situation that future you then is going to have to bear the consequences of." That's who I'm talking to here. So, I wanted to make that distinction because I never want to make someone feel bad. I'm like, "Listen, if you want to, if you want to do, you shouldn't be doing this."

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's not what I'm saying at all. But it's like, if you genuinely can't afford it and you're simply doing it because you feel like you have to to like have the perfect Christmas or the holiday season, like, that's, that's where we got to do some reflection.

Yeah, because I think that's like what most people, I mean, at least like my audience, where they've struggled, is like feeling like the "have to," feeling like other people are doing it, so then I need to too. And I think something too that has helped me personally, um, not fall in the comparison trap, is those feelings that I'm chasing. So, whether it is like, "Oh, I'm trying to make this holiday party perfect because I really want people to appreciate it. I really want people to have a good time." I'm thinking like, "In what like, in what way can I make sure that those feelings I can still get without feeling like things have to be perfect? Feelings have to be, I have to have this certain thing to get that feeling?" Because again, we put things in a box. We think we have Bridget thinking to how how people are going to, how people appreciate this if I do all of this, right? When really, like, when it comes to connection, um, it really, the best times that I've had is where I've just like spent hours talking to someone and we just feel like understood. And it has nothing to do that we were wearing like a Christmas sweater, or that, you know, we had all the cocktails. It was just that we were just, we just felt seen. And I think a big part of it with COVID and everything, we just have this like, we're so lonely. And this lack of like genuine connection, we all lack emotional rest, like where we don't have people that we could go to to talk to. And so, we then think that all of these things can get us to those kinds of feelings. And I think those things are also not things that we just need during the holidays, but also things that we need in our everyday. So, I like to think of like, "How can I be intentional throughout my, like, throughout the year of making sure that I'm building connection?" And so that the holidays don't feel so lonely, and I don't feel, and then I don't become more vulnerable to being influenced. Because I think the lonely, the lonelier you are, I feel that the more vulnerable you are to being influenced to purchase something outside of your means.

Completely. Loneliness is a really big spending trigger, especially when you understand like the core human need for connection and belonging. And it's really fascinating when you start to study marketing at a deeper level. I call this, um, I refer to this as purchasing promises, right? I always have the people in my world think about like, you're not just buying the thing. There's always a promise underneath the thing that's underneath the product. And the promise is what you're really purchasing. Like, we, like, you think that you're buying the product, but really what you're buying is the promise of the product. And the promise of a lot of products is simply just belonging and connection to other people, right? Even, even just the, the human need to be like, "Everyone else is buying this, and I don't want to be the only one without it. I don't want to be left out. I don't want to be the girl without it. I don't want to have to, I don't want to be the only one in my friend group who doesn't have this thing." Whatever it is, it could be a million different things. But it's like understanding that that core need and that core pull for connection and belonging. And that's actually why we do so much of the spending and the shopping that we do is because we view the things that we have and the things that we buy as like being a part of the group. It's like, "Okay, well, if I have all these things that other people have, like, I belong. Like, I've made it. I belong. I'm a part of the group." And a very like primitive survival sense, like, this isn't things that you're consciously thinking, but you know, our brain is still very much like caveman era days. And in the caveman era, isolation from the tribe meant death. And your brain is wired for survival. And so, you see that coming through with your purchases, seeking that belonging and seeking that connection. It's not like your brain is like, "Oh my God, if I don't buy the Stanley Stanley Cup, I'm going to die." But, you know, it's not like that's like a conscious thought process that's happening. But it is a sense of like, "I want to be, I want to feel like I belong. I want to feel like I'm part of the group." And, you know, maybe for you, it's not a, it's not a Stanley Cup or a Stanley tumbler. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's a hobby, you know? It's maybe it's having a certain thing for a hobby or a community or a group that you're really involved in. Or for the holidays, it could be something that you feel like you want to do to belong during the holidays. But the connection piece is so, so very huge. And to your point, Monica, I think it's really asking the question, "If I am doing a lot of shopping because you can peel back the layers of the onion and see like, that's what I'm clearly after here, like I just want to feel like I belong." How can I create that connection and that belonging with people that I love? To your point, that have nothing to do with what I buy. Nothing to do with spending money. I'm with you. I'm like, "If I can just sit with somebody for like, you know, having those like deep meaningful conversations that like we don't go anywhere. We don't have to go anywhere. We don't have to buy anything. We like, none of that has to happen. It's just like that connection with another person." Like, that's the richest thing of all. Out of everything, that's what you remember. You're not going to remember, "Oh, I just remember like, she just loved, you know, to, she had like a million clothes." You know, like, that's not what people are going to remember. Right? She had a million clothes, or she had all the decorations. Maya Angelou quote, it's the, you know, "People will always remember how you made them feel." And even like keeping it tied into this holiday discussion, and again, I know I keep coming back to this, but it's like, especially for the women, it's like, when you're not here anymore, at your eulogy, when they're reading your eulogy, or like, you know, when your, when your spouse or your kids or your friends or like the people in your life are like talking about you, that's what they're going to talk about. They're going to talk about you being a great friend and a great mom and, you know, a, just a great confidant. And the reason that they're going to be saying that you were a great friend, mom, wife, whatever, is not going to be because you had the perfectly decorated Christmas tree. It's not going to be because of your beautiful and amazing Christmas cards. It's going to be because of the feelings that you cultivated for them, how you made them feel.

That's the thing that people remember. That's the thing that matters to people. And so, you can have a feelings-focused holiday season where you're just constantly going through the holiday season asking yourself, "How can I do things in a way, consume things in a way, that are going to make me feel good and are going to make the people in my life feel good?" And I promise you, that has nothing to do with buying stuff and gifts.

I want to make this point too: I think consumer culture, consumerism, has programmed us to correlate and associate how much you love the people in your life to how much you're willing to spend on them. Mhm. Like, and this could be, this could be for birthdays. Like, I mean, you see this now, right? These like insane birthday parties for these kids, right? Where you hear all the moms being like, "Well, I want to, I want to do it." And it's like, "Okay, cool. Like, fine. Like, seriously, no judgment." But it always is really interesting to be like, "Is there something there where you are either trying to show your kid, or your spouse, or whoever the people in your life, siblings, or your friends, that you're like, spending this money on and buying gifts for?" Are you using money as a way to try to show someone like, "Look at how much I love you. Look at how much I care for you?" Which is such a beautiful thing, right? Like, when you're, when you're looking at it, you're like, "At the core of it, it is very pure and very beautiful." Because really, what you're trying to do is you're trying to show this other person like, "Look how much I love you. Look how much I care about you." But we've made this correlation and association to how much you're willing to spend on somebody and how grand and elaborate something is to like, how much you actually love someone. And there's actually no correlation between those two things.

So, at the heart of it, it's get, it's a beautiful thing, but it's not necessary. It, it's actually like, the two aren't connected at all. Like how much you're will, the outcome. Yeah, yeah. Like how much you're willing to spend on your kids' Christmas gifts, or like your boyfriend's Christmas gifts, or for your friends, or whatever. Like, I think a lot of us truly like get into this mindset of, "The more I spend, the more that this person will see like, 'Oh, I really love you. I really care about you.'" Yeah. But it just doesn't play out that way. It doesn't work that way. Like, there's no correlation between the two. So, like, you have to get to the recognition. Like, I can be an amazing spouse, an amazing mom, an amazing friend, an amazing coworker without having to buy a bunch of things for these people, spend a bunch of money on them. And really challenge that correlation if you have that in your brain. Like, where did that come from? Why is that that I believe in so deeply? It probably has just come from living in a world that tells you that spending equals love.

The more you buy. The basket. I don't know if you, I don't know if you've seen the Boo Basket trend of like men making, um, like a Boo Basket or whatever. And I thought, "Oh my gosh, my husband doesn't love me if he's not giving me a Boo Basket." But it's like, it's not necessary. I mean, that's why like, me and my husband, like, we don't even do, um, like Valentine's gifts because it's so close to our anniversary. And we'd rather use our money in terms of experiences because we know that that's what we're going to remember more as opposed to a gift, especially when we do have the purchasing power to buy the things that we need. But yeah, like some things like that, like Valentine's, it could be like, Valentine's, Halloween, all these things could be very triggering, uh, things for women when they're seeing other people's spouses doing these grand love gestures. Um, but we don't, again, we don't really see what's happening in the relationship. And it could be very easy to see a picture-perfect relationship on social media. But what are they doing in terms of like their vows and their values? And, you know, are they showing this person, are they loving this person and choosing to love this person outside of gift-giving? You know? And so, yeah, I just saw that correlation when you were talking about it.

No, and I think this is a really important conversation to have because this is the time of year where gifts is like, it's a big part of it, right? And I think it's really looking at the gift aspect of this because I, I, I want to say this, right? Like, some people enjoy the gift-giving. Right? Gifts is one of the five love, love languages, right? Giving and receiving gifts. And so, you don't have to feel guilty or bad or shameful at all if you're like, "I love giving people gifts. I genuinely, I love to give gifts. I love to receive, receive gifts. I show a lot of love that way. I feel a lot of love that way." But I think this is where you have to be, this is, this is the part that you have to break down. Is I think that there are gifts that are meaningful. But I think we've construed a gift being meaningful to how expensive it is. So it's like getting a, I'm just going to think of an example like that you might see on social media, right? Like, if you see an influencer on social media, and let's just say for Christmas, her husband buys her a designer handbag, right? A designer handbag that costs $3,000. That doesn't necessarily mean that that gift is meaningful because they spent a lot of money on it. And that's where you really have to start challenging these associations to say, "Have I construed a meaningful gift with an expensive gift?"

Because even if gift-giving is your thing, which I'm, I'm actually with you, Monica, it's not my thing either. Like, my love languages are acts of service. Mhm. Um, that's at the top of my list. And actually, gift-giving is my, is my last. So, like, I don't care. I'm like, I'm a terrible gift-giver. And, and also, I always tell people, I'm like, "Don't buy me gifts." Truly, I would, I would rather just like go do something with you because I'm just not a gift person. But there are a lot of people who are gift people, right? Like, your love language is that gifts, gifts are at the top of your, at the top of your list. And that's great. And if that is you, you really have to be careful of not conflating a gift being meaningful and it being expensive. Now, can both be true at the same time? Can you give a meaningful gift that is, it's a gift that's both meaningful and expensive? Yes, of course. Like, we could, like, make a whole little matrix about this. But you can also give a meaningful gift that isn't expensive at all. Because really, like, when you think about the point of a gift, when you think about like, "Why do we do that? Why do we give gifts to people?" I think we give gifts to people to convey love, but to also to tell the other person, "I see you. I know you on a deep level. And I acknowledge who you are." Right? Like, "I see you as a whole human, and I acknowledge who you are. And I saw this gift, and it made me think of you. And I know that you would like this, or I know that you would use it, or it seems like you, it reminds me of you." Whatever. That's why we give gifts. It's, it's about communicating something. It's about showing love and telling the other person, "I know you and I see you on a deep level." And based on seeing you and knowing you, this is what I've picked out for you and selected for you. And I want to show that to you through giving you this gift. That's the, that's the meaningful part about giving gifts. And you can give a really meaningful gift that conveys your love to somebody and that shows and tells somebody like, "I love you and I know you and I see you." And it doesn't even have to cost any money at all, let alone be super, super expensive.

But I see this all the time where it's like, and we could talk about holiday, anniversary gifts, push presents when you have a baby. Like, it's like, "Oh, well, you know, I've carried this man's child for nine months, so I deserve a $5,000 handbag." And it's like, "Okay." Like, it's just, it's just this whole narrative around like, you have to spend a lot of money on me to, to, to show me and communicate to me that you love me. And to me, that's just the most backwards thing. Because I'm like, "That's not love." Like, that's not, I, I don't know. I, I just, that's the way that I see it. I'm like, "You don't have to spend a ton of money on your kids to be a good mom. You don't have to spend a ton of money on gifts for people to show that you love them and value them and know them deeply." The money actually has nothing to do with it. But because of consumer culture, the message that gets pushed out, because when you believe this message, you will buy more and spend more, which benefits the marketers and the retailers. We've been conditioned to believe that the more you spend and the more extravagant and outlandish the gifts are, the more you love someone. And you've got to just challenge that assumption and really ask yourself like, "Is that what I truly believe?" I don't believe that on a core level. Like, I just don't. I choose not to believe that and buy into that. But it really is like a very predominant message that gets pushed out to us. Yeah.

Yeah, no, we talked a lot about just a lot of things that we need to challenge that we're being fed. And, and, and really just look inward. What do you value? Because I think at the end of the day, like, this is on, like, what do you value? What do you feel is going to make you feel those feelings of connection and joy? And really being more in tune with that so you can make the right changes that benefit you and your lifestyle and don't put you in uncomfortable situations that may feel stuck, you know? Because again, as you said, this is not about, "Don't go shopping. Never buy fall decor." Like, it's more about, you know, why we're doing what we're doing and what do we benefit from it? And is it something that, at the end of the day, it's not bringing us more, more of this like, the stress, the loneliness, all these things that we, we buy it to let, get, let go of these feelings, but doing it is just like a temporary dopamine hit. So I love that. I did want to quickly get into just like this underconsumption core trend. Um, I'm not on TikTok, but I've been seeing like people on YouTube talking about it. And I don't know if you've like been seeing videos. What's your take on the underconsumption core?

No, I see them everywhere. I see them everywhere. I mean, I'm loving it. I, I think like all things on social media, it gets to a point where it starts to get taken a little bit too far, right? Where people are showing, and I'm like, "Okay, we don't want to send the message that what you want to do is, is live with things that are just like completely falling apart at the seams and like aren't functioning properly and are, you know, completely old and decrepit and like falling apart, just for like the sake of being able to say like, 'Oh, I've been using this thing for however long and I haven't replaced it.'" Right? Like, badge of honor. However, I love to see it. Especially. I know, I know you're not on TikTok, but I feel like this trend started on TikTok and it's kind of migrated all over the social media ecosphere from there. But I'm really glad it started on TikTok because I feel like out of all the social media platforms, TikTok is the one where the overconsumption content kind of gets the most out of hand. And social media, like I said, it's just this place that has really kind of made us start to feel kind of crazy and has really warped our sense of what is normal and what's not normal. And I think what you have to recognize about social media is that yes, you have the people that in your inner circle that you're following, like the people in your network, your personal friends and your family. But then outside of that, a lot of the people that you're following on social media, social media is their job. And it is their job to get on social media every day and do these hauls every day and show you everything they're buying and everything that they're consuming because then they get to show it to you, stick it in their Amazon storefront, convince you that you need it, then you go buy it, and they make a commission off of it. Which again, no shame to the game, like get your bag. But as a consumer of social media, you have to be conscious that that's what you're consuming and that's the world that you're in when you're on your phone scrolling.

So the world of social media has just become this place of overconsumption, overconsumption. And we see this happening all the time. And we've just gotten to a, a point where we think, "Oh, that's normal. Like, oh, that's what you do. Oh, you should have Amazon boxes coming every day. Oh, you need a completely new wardrobe for every new season." So with this underconsumption core trend, I'm loving it because I think it's a lot of these people who, who aren't traditionally, they're not content creators. At least that's what I see. They're the people that are typically consuming the overconsumption content. They're not content creators themselves, but they're stepping out and they're being like, "Okay, here's my world. Like, this is what my house looks like. This is what my kitchen looks like. This is what my skincare routine is. This is what my closet looks like." And I think it's been so refreshing because so many people are like, "Oh, okay, okay. I thought I was crazy. Like, I thought I was the only one. I thought I was the only one whose life looked like this." So I'm loving the underconsumption core trend. And I feel like every couple of months or we, we have a trend like this on social media. Like, I feel like at first it was the de-influencing trend, then it was the, uh, underconsumption core trend. And I mean, I, I post a lot of content like this too. Anytime I post content about, you know, like social media and spending on social media or underconsumption or whatever, that content always does really well. Not to like, toot my own horn about it. It's not any content that's any different. I think it just resonates with people. And I think it's refreshing to people. And I think they're like, "Oh, thank God. Like, I thought it was crazy." Um, so I'm loving it, but it's refreshing and it's, it's good, it's good to see.

I think, I think sometimes it gets taken a little bit too far. Like, it's kind of like your point, Monica, what you were saying earlier. Like, anything of a good thing, like taken too far, can actually become a bad thing, right? Right, right. Because I could see it on, on the sense of like, people making this and shaming the people who may have like gotten, you know, trapped in buying a bunch of things. And I think shame never created change. You know, shame just, you know, keeps us deeper into our hole. And I think as long as this is something out of just like showing the other side that they both coexist. And we don't live in this one-sided phenomenon where everyone has all these things. They have a whole drawer of makeup products, you know? For some people, they love makeup and they, then that's the way that they love to do their creativity. For some people, they love scrapbooking, and that's what's their creativity, painting, or whatever. Like, everyone has their own creative way. Um, and so just being able to see like, "Okay, like, I don't have, like, as a normal person, who, not a normal person, but as an everyday person, like, I don't have a lot of makeup." Makeup for me, one, I, I don't buy makeup because I don't know how to put makeup on. So I could, so I wish I could. Like, I'm like, every time I get that, that type of content attracts me. But I know it's like, I just like seeing it just because it's not something that I, like, I do every day. Um, but I'm mindful that I don't need those things because I know that one, I don't know how to use them. So my time is better spent maybe if I want to, to learn how to use it before I buy something. Um, but, but yeah, I think everybody has their thing of like, what they're willing or not willing to have a lot of. Like, for some people, they love to have a lot of mugs. I don't know. But like, everyone has their thing. And I think as long as it's, again, everything that we talked about today, as long as it is in a sustainable way, it's not affecting all these other areas of your life, it's not masking unresolved issues in your life, then I think you're using your, your purchasing power with intentionality for your life. If not, you might look at the journals, journal prompts that you said, and, you know, just challenge yourself a little bit.

Yeah, I love that. I think you said that perfectly. Using your purchasing power intentionally. That's what it's all about. I'll end with this. I think a lot of people who initially find me, once they start to get into my work, they're like, "Oh, okay, I get it now." But I think initially, just because of the name of my brand, Overcoming Overspending, I think a lot of people initially assume, and I don't blame them, because again, this is the message in the personal finance world that gets pushed out all the time, which is being good and responsible with money means that you're never spending money on everything, and you're certainly not spending money on certain things. And those certain, that's like my least favorite type of content that I see. I'll just, this is a little tangent. I'll just say that. But like the type of content that you see where it's people are like, "Things that I stopped spending money on to get out of debt. Things that I stopped spending money on once I became financially literate." And then of course, like most of those things, it's like, "I stopped getting manicures. I stopped spending money on food delivery. I stopped spending money on thrift shopping." Whatever. And I think the problem with that message is that what you're telling people is that in order to become financially responsible or financially literate, it's about what you're spending your money on. And it's not about what you're spending your money on. It actually doesn't matter what you're spending your money on. It's how you are spending your money. It's the intention behind how you are spending your money. Are you spending money to, like all the things that we talked about today, out of obligation, to impress other people, to mask uncomfortable emotions? It's the how that you're spending the money becomes problematic. And it's a lot less about the what. The only time the what becomes an issue is when the what isn't aligned with your values, right? So if you're spending money on things that aren't aligned with your values, it's like, "Okay, yeah, of course. Like, let's clean that up." But it's so funny because like, I'll just, I saw a video the other day and the girl was like, "Things I stopped spending money on once I became financially literate." And she had a list of five things. Every single thing on her list, I'm not even kidding, all five things were things that I spend money on on a regular basis, all the time. And she never came out and said this, but I'm like, subliminally, what you're saying in this video is that, and what the viewer is subliminally picking up on here is, "Oh, okay, so in order for me to become financially literate and in order for me to become financially responsible, I also have to stop spending money on these things." Right? Manicures was the top of her, her list. And anybody who knows me and just knows my work knows that like, you are not going to pry my manicures out of my cold, dead hands. Absolutely not. It would be like one of the last things that I cut in my spending plan.

So this is a bit of a tangent, but what I was saying initially was when people first come to my work, they think that the goal of my work is to have you stop spending money entirely, to get into this mindset of, "Oh, spending is bad. I'm not going to spend any money anymore." And I believe that spending is a skill. I believe it's abundant. I believe it is what money is made for. It's how you deploy money in your life to create a life that you love. But it's spending your money in a way that is healthy, that's productive, that's going to move you forward versus dig you deeper. And spending money on things that are genuinely going to make your life better because you value them as an individual. And what you value is going to be different than what I value. Like, Monica, you were saying, like, I don't really care for makeup that much. I like makeup. Like, I do. I like, like, I wear makeup most days and I like it, so I spend my money there. But just because I do doesn't mean Monica should.

So I know that was a little bit of a rant. Well, I think it's like, people, people like to put people in boxes. Yeah. People like to put people in boxes. And even when I, when I, when I tend to, you know, dance in the ambiguity of things and not go so black and white, I think people hate that because they want like, like, they want us to be on a side. That's, I was telling you earlier before I connected that, like, as soon as I made that video with you about emotional spending, now it's not like people are putting me in a, in a standard, "Oh, okay, so now she's not ever going to emotional spend?" Or she needs to be someone who, like, and I'm like, "I'm human." And just like you, there are going to be things where I regress. And I like, "The comeback is better than the setback." Like, I love that. As a human, I'm going to make mistakes. But being able to be mindful and intentional and understand, "How can I do better?" That's the kind of mindset that I tend to gravitate towards. But there's just a lot on social media where people want to put people in boxes. If people say, "What I eat in a day," and it's like, "Healthy addition." Oh, people will rip people apart. "That's not healthy. This is even though it's a health choice for them. It's a healthier choice for them. Maybe they switched from regular Coke to Diet Coke. It is a healthier version for them." And people think when they use words like "healthy" as like, or "perfect," right? And they have these definitions based on their own worldview. That's, that's the funny part too, though. It's based on their worldview too. It's what people in media feed us. To all of these things shape our worldview. And so, yeah, it's like very black and white thinking of like, yeah, if people go to you and, and, and if they only see one snippet of your short-form content, there's so much con, like, there's so much context that can't be fit in like a TikTok.

No, I know. There's honestly so much we could say here, like about social media. Like, the human brain loves to fill in the gaps, right? So if you give somebody just a very like, small snippet of somebody's day, what the human brain wants to do is it wants to kind of like complete the whole picture. And so that's why it really is dangerous seeing like, "A day in the life of somebody" that is somebody's like, entire day, so to speak, but like encapsulated in a two-minute video. That's not the entire day. And what the human brain is going to do is it's going to fill in the gaps. And often how the human brain, with a negativity bias, is going to fill in those gaps is assuming like worst-case scenarios. And I think that like the all-or-nothing thinking, which is basically the thinking that cancel culture is built upon, is the most toxic mindset of them all. And it's, it's so toxic. It's so unhealthy. And yeah, you're right. I mean, like, as human beings, we find safety and and being like, "You're on my side. You are on my team." We want to see our team grow stronger. And we want to see the other side grow weaker. And it's funny that we're having this conversation, kind of like, you know, the elections coming up. And it's just so fascinating to me. Like, I always take times like this just to like study human behavior where it's just like, people want you to pick a side. And people want to know what side you're on. And I always challenge people, "Why is it so important for you to know what side I'm on?" M. Or to know what I believe? Or to know what my rel, like, it's just like, "Why is it so important?" Especially when you're talking about strangers on the internet. I'm like, "You consume my content, but like, we're not friends. You don't have my number, right?" But all that to say, it's really no hate against anybody. I view it from a, a human behavior perspective to say, to really find it so fascinating how that's what we want. We want to know like, "Are you on my side? Or are you on my team? Or you on the other their team?" Like, because if you're on my side, great. And if you're not, like, "We can't be friends anymore. I can't consume your content anymore. I have to unfollow you. I have to cancel you. I have to badmouth you. I have to tell people how awful and terrible and toxic you are." And when you think about it, think about how toxic that is. It's like, that's, that's crazy. Like, that's like the all-or-nothing mindset that we get ourselves in. And, um, social media has just ballooned that. And I know that's not what we were here to talk about today, but, you know what? Like, this is just where the conversation went. And I feel like it needs to be said, especially during an election year. Um, so anyways, my two for sure.

Yeah, and I think, I mean, it goes back to like, when we're talking about the underconsumption trend and like, you know, how how you feel about that. And, and, and yeah, I mean, it's, it all comes down to like, what I said earlier, anything that could be good, if overdone, could be a bad thing. I also think to do a with emotions, I always tell clients, like, you know, emotions are just emotions. They're not good, they're not bad, you know? Like, we've provided that label. We provided the label of negative emotions, positive emotions. But we both need to experience both sides in order to be able to be well-rounded, in order to be a human. If we weren't to be a robot. Um, so this, it's like, again, going back to, we need to be more intentional and truly look inward. And I think a lot of us just look so much external. Like, we don't, we, we don't give ourselves time to even think. I mean, I've caught myself even doing that, going on a walk and putting on a podcast. And sometimes I'm like, "I need really just need to go on a walk and like, not listen to anything so that I could truly make decisions." Or like, "I need to not, if I want to buy this sweater, I need to not go in and look because I'm going to get 10, 15 opinions about this sweater." Yes, I want to buy. When, you know? And so it just takes away a lot of our own autonomy choices. And I think just like, if we could just do that first, like think inward. And then if we do need that extra support, because I think social media could be so good to come for information, but take the information in a way that like, don't get so, uh, I mean, we could talk all this, like, there's rage bait, there's like so many things that I'm just like, I have a problem with. It's truly the wild west out there.

Yeah, I mean, it, it really, really is. And like I said, you and I, maybe, maybe I'll come back for a third time and you and I can just have a whole conversation about social media. Truly, like, social media and spending and consumption habits because it's, it's a beast. It really is. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for like joining us. I know this is a little longer than we anticipated, but everybody loves this conversation. So, um, where can people find you? I'm going to put everything in the description, but if there's anything new up and coming, anything that you're excited about, feel free to share.

Yeah, well, first of all, if you don't follow me on social media, that's a great place to start. My handles on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, just search for Overcoming_Overspending. I also have a podcast. Clearly, you're a podcast person if you're listening to this, or my podcast is also on YouTube, you can find it there. But my podcast is called The Money Love Podcast. And if you want to learn more about my work and my world, I have a lot of free trainings. I have a lot of low-cost trainings, like under the $100 mark. And then I have my group coaching program that is a year-long program if spending and shopping habits is something that you're really, really struggling with. But you can learn more about that at OvercomingOverspending.com. Or you can just shoot me a DM if you're like, "Hey, I'd love to work together, but where should I start?" I can kind of help you and advise you on that.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Paige, for being here.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

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