“Our Father…” What the Lord’s Prayer Really Means

Today we're going to be talking about the most recited block of text in human history. Pledge of Allegiance. No, no, you got to be talking about the Lord's Prayer. The odd thing is that when you recite something a lot, sometimes it sort of loses meaning just like seeing the same word again and again on a page. Well, we're going to dispel that haze today because in this show, we're going to go line by line looking at the spiritual power in each phrase. And I think it'll change not only how you think about it, but how you feel when you say it.

Okay, let's talk about the Lord's Prayer. So, there's this thing that's called the Lord's Prayer because Jesus Christ told people, "Hey, you got to say this prayer, right? I mean, that that was that was a this it's in the book of Matthew direct command. It's part of the famous sermon on the mount. It's right in there in the in the.

What we're going to do in this episode as he's looking that up is we're going to unlock there there's spiritual meaning. There's a comprehensive map of the right way to live in this according to Emanuel Swedenborg. Um but yeah, give give in case anyone's not familiar, set the scene.

Yeah, I'll just set this up a little bit. Um when you pray, go into your room and when you've shut your door, pray to your father who's in the secret place. and your father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

And when you pray, don't use vain repetitions as the heathen do, for they think that they'll be heard for their many words.

Therefore, don't be like them, for your father knows the things you have need of before you ask him. In this manner, therefore, pray. Boom. And then here we get the prayer.

And you'll probably recognize this. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Dude, he's saying, "Don't do vain repetitions. Say this instead." So, if we are to follow instructions, we would need to make sure when we're saying that we're not doing a vain repetition and saying it right. It has to mean something. Uh, it obviously does. I mean, there's elements you can pick out of there that seem to lend to, uh, you know, not worrying too much about the future, uh, ethical treatment of, you know, reciprocate forgiveness. Um but also you there's there's a there's a you could easily slip into oh I just got to say this so I'll say it. Yes. Yeah. Right. There's there must be some benefit to it. The two concepts that sort of jump out of it at me to me is the thy will be done and also the idea of heaven on earth. You know that's sort of some like basics that I get.

So the wrinkle that we want to introduce here, the value ad because everybody knows the the Lord's Prayer is widely known. People know that it's good and powerful and people you don't have to watch this show to know about the Lord's Prayer. Yeah. Um but what you haven't heard anywhere else is that there's spiritual symbolic power and meaning in each phrase beyond what you pick up from the literal text. Layers and lay like huge. Yeah. And that is coming out of Emanuel Swedenborg, scientist, inventor, and theologian in the 18th century. And I feel like he's got to have one of the most elaborate and deep systems of biblical exesus ever recorded. 30 volumes just to go over the first couple books in the Bible. He also though lays out what what is the spiritual significance of all of these phrases? Why those particular phrases? What are they doing in there? What do they mean to you today? Why would God want you to recite this stuff?

He makes the surprising statement, I don't know, it surprised me at any rate that angels recite this prayer every day in heaven. And so he gets to be there and in that world you can feel what people are feeling. You can see their thoughts kind of visually represented. And so he can really get a sense of what this means on the other side. Well, okay, if you want that, let's we'll start out a little sci-fi here. This is him giving an account of because he was able, if you're not familiar, reported being able to like see into the afterlife while he was in this world kind of a dual consciousness. So while he could be there in his uh you know study reading the prayer, he could also observe the spiritual impact of reading the prayer. And this is what he says here. Whenever I have read the Lord's prayer, I have had a clear sensation of being raised up toward him by a kind of pull. So raised up toward the divine. My mind was then receptive which brought about contact with certain communities in heaven. I was aware of the Lord's inflow into every word of the prayer and therefore into every single thought sparked in my mind by the prayer's message. The inflow did not occur the same way one time as another, but in indescribably varied ways, which showed how infinite the contents of each detail was. It also showed that the Lord was present in all the details.

Okay, so, I want your reaction to that, but I'll just say you get a lot of people, you know, a lot of pastors and all kinds of things that are pretty into the prayer and they think it's really important. Do you ever find anywhere anything like that about the prayer? We're talking about the every word having God inside of it. It connects you to different parts of heaven. It literally pulls your spirit up. This is this is this is anybody more uh into more um bullish on the power of the prayer than than Swedenborg? I I don't know of anybody. The fact that it takes you to different communities of heaven or connects with them, it almost sounds like this is sort of a map of the whole structure of the spiritual world that's hidden in here. And the more you open yourself to it, it can take you to all these different the different phrases can take you to different different places. So ostensibly when you or I read it, something is happening that's like that. We just can't tell. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, "And to every single thought sparked in my mind by the prayer's message." So it's there's an interplay between his consciousness and the words on the page. So not just that the words that are there are sacred or or spiritually powerful but even the kinds of things they make you think about also like they throw it off like sparks those are also powerful uh because of the nature of the prayer and it comes out differently each time which sort of gets to that idea of repetition that we you started with. It's not exactly the the same. there's always more that you can get out of it.

If anybody's interested, we did a whole episode of this show a while back called Six Spiritual Powers of the Lord's Prayer, where you can learn sort of more of the spiritual technology side of this. But what we want to do now is go into the specific lines in the prayer and why what they mean and why that's important.

So, the very first phrase in the prayer is, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name." There's a couple different translations that'll say in different ways, but it has these these two elements to it. The father, the hallowing, and they both have spiritual significance. So, this is from Swedenborg, secrets of heaven. The Lord often mentions the father who is in the heavens and where he does it means the divine in heaven. So, it means the goodness that constitutes heaven. Divinity regarded in itself is above the heavens. But the divine presence in the heavens is goodness in the truth that radiates from the divine.

What does that mean? The it's an interesting point about in heaven versus above heaven because you do have other statements even when Jesus is resurrected. It says in the epistles that he went far above the heavens so that he fulfills all things. That sort of thing. And and um so the emphasis on in the heavens is interesting. So there's, you know, there there's already a sense of community and presence there rather than the infinite unknowable that's, you know, underlying reality. Yes. So there's a there's a gear that God can hit that nobody else can hit. So there's there's a part of God that you can't understand or it's beyond you. And this is I think what people people get at when they're saying like, "Come on, religion is all man-made. You can't understand who God like the God and God's essence. We can't put human language to that." I would say that there's a there's an element of truth in that that the divine itself yes is infinite and so your your brain is not doesn't have enough space to process that. However, there are other um there's other like forms of God that you can understand. And here it's saying that in the heavens is how God is with people because heaven just means God with people. Yeah. And in particular, it gets even more granular than that. It's the goodness. So the presence of God is the goodness in goodness that makes heaven. So in in the in the best place quote unquote. I mean it's a state rather than a place but yeah. So the way Yes. God's out there way beyond what we can. But the way that we first intercept God or first interact with is in the goodness. So if we're trying to So the first thing that prayer is doing is refocus your mind on where do we where's the most accurate perception of God we have initially it's goodness. Yeah. Yes. That's right. And uh Swedenborg says that pretty much always not not always but uh father throughout scripture even if it's so and so's father always has to do with love. Sometimes that could be a negative you know, a self-centered kind of love or something but the but the father that always has that idea of love. So sort of love and and goodness in heaven is kind of what that's where you start. And also what's interesting to me is as Swedenborg describes the prayer as being kind of structural. You start at the top. You don't work your way up. You know there's something about starting with the our father in the heavens and then it it comes down then you start talking about it's done on earth and then it goes down to well daily bread and us down here kind of thing. Yeah. you know, it's sort of a top tobottom prayer.

Well, I mean, you would think, so let's say that that we take the um the the theological claims at face value and let's say Jesus is God and Jesus is saying here's I'm telling you how to do this. I'm telling you what to do. This is how you should pray. If he's delivering that packet, you'd think this is better be this is would be something that's pretty well thought through. Yes, you should see evidence that there's a lot of good craftsmanship or this is you'd think it would be perfectly engineered to be effective. So if you're saying it starts with remember what this is all about love. Yeah. To say our father in the heavens is to say focus on the goodness as as our primal or primary perception of God. Yeah. And it strikes me right now that there's two other I I never thought about it before, but there's there's heavens plural. There's also our It's not my Uh huh. You know, it's our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour our hour all all the way through. It's always plural. So it's always like a community. You're you're always kind of praying as part of some community. You know, it's interesting. It's never my father was in heaven. Do this for me. does, you know, it's all do this for us or Right. Yeah. It even sounds strange like you're even if you have siblings, you'd be like, "Yeah, my dad is so and so." You rarely say our father there's something particular and yeah that why why you you could just this is addressed to an individual person. You could just say say my father in heaven but no it's our father. So, so not only is it illustrating the the primacy of love and it understanding that that's how you experience God, that that's the that's the truest signal you have around God, but also it's forcing that there's a there's a com like you're approaching this in companionship with the human race. Yes. And and with heaven. Both both of those layers are already in it. I never thought about that, but they're right there in that first line, aren't they?

So then the hallowed be thy name part uh this is what Swedenborg says about that since God's name symbolizes every aspect of worship that is every aspect of the love and faith with which we worship him you can see what may your name be held sacred in the Lord's prayer means and I'll pause for a second because this is just like you were saying the way it works is it's not just in the prayer here that father means something you're saying throughout the entirety of the Bible, the word father. Now, there's the way Swedenborg describes it, there's moments where it flips. He'll often say like, you know, father and mother is like love and truth and there's times when it flips and the father's truth and the mother's so but but in general and and he would give he in his mind he gives you know there are rules there. It's like grammar. It's a lot like grammar. Yeah, that's right. That everything is not just happening willy-nilly. There's a reason if if it's a different symbolism than usual, it's because it's like I before E except after C, right? There's a grammar to it. Um and so I got so excited about that. The grammar thing is pretty That's a great point. Well, and and the the name that's true of the name too, right? Yeah, that's that that's what that the whole thing was a roundabout way of saying I I was with you. Yeah. The name is the same. The name is the same. meaning it's not just when he says hallowed be thy name and here it's saying the name uh means every aspect of worship or the quality it's not that that's the only place name means something like that that we're saying hallowed be thy name you almost blink and you miss it that he's not saying oh it's the what's that thing the four letter the tetra grammar grammatonet which is the name of god it's not even the name of god it's the qualities of of love and faith yes so the name everywhere or I'll make a name for you anywhere in the Bible that's talking about the quality of who you are calling you by your name or having a new name that nobody knows. And all the way back in Exodus uh there's a prediction of uh you know the Messiah I don't think it uses those terms but that that uh somebody's going to come later and my name will be in him. It says you know and when you understand that as okay the qualities of divine love and divine wisdom will be in Jesus you know that's what it means that the name it's not just a hollow syllable or something it's it's a well it doesn't make any sense otherwise what what do you if you're saying my name is my name is going to be in you what what does that mean what are you even saying yeah h how describe to me what if the name doesn't mean anything in particular it's just a name like you just got a name chosen for you. It could could be Billy. It could be Thood and that's your name and my name is going to be in you. What does that even mean? So it it seems like um it seems like it's just padding or fluff. It doesn't have any substance. However, if you're saying and the name is the qualities, yeah, then it makes all the sense in the world. The character, my character is going to be in him. That divine I follow you. I get what you're talking about there. That's right.

Swedenborg continues elsewhere in Secrets of Heaven, divinity itself cannot be woripped. Wait, what? What? That's what a very inappropriate thing for a religious type guy to say. How could you say that? Sorry. And and Swedenborg were here, he'd be like, "You cut me off." It wasn't even a comma there. You just cut me off right in the beginning of the sentence, but this is the sound bite. Swedenborg says you can't worship God. The divinity itself cannot be worshiped because it cannot be approached in either faith or love. So what we're getting at before, it's it's beyond us. Yes, it transcends all thought. As the Lord says in John, God has never been seen by anyone. The only son who is in the father's embrace is the one who has revealed him. And in another place in the same author, you have never heard his voice or seen his form. Divine humanity being the quality of divinity itself is therefore what can be approached and worshiped. In the Lord's prayer too, our father in the heavens, may your name be held sacred stands for the Lord in his divine humanity and also for every means by which he is to be worshiped collectively. I'll end with one more quick little quote. In the highest or heavenly meaning, the name of Jehovah God stands for the Lord's divine human manifestation. Yes.

So I I do think about that in the Lord's prayer about that name that you're it's so interesting because uh I think uh a lot of people looking at that prayer think we're we're praying to the father you know like in in a lot of Christian churches I think you pray to the father and then you say in the name of the son or or something like you add add a line in there about the son because this is the father. But what Swedenborg is saying is that our father in the heavens, hallowed be thy name. The name is talking about that embodiment. The name is the quality. It's that his my name will be in him. You know that it's the Lord you're praying to, not kind of quote unquote God the Father. Yes. Even though it says Father, but it's got the name. Okay. I I get it. So it's like there's the So think about if you are a little kid with an actual parent um you cannot fathom that parent as they actually are. True. When Oh yeah. When you're you're the sure when they're with you, they talk in a little way that you can understand and they talk about simple things that you can understand, but you do not see when they're figuring out the taxes and figuring out the um the like like calling a plumber for something or when they're uh thinking about groceries or the um you know, I don't know if those you get what I mean. There's so many things worried about inflation or something that means nothing why you know why worried about inflation why they're not going to let you have a cell phone there there's so many things you see aversion where the parent has acclimated themselves to something you can interact with yes that's like what we're talking about here um there's the divine which we cannot understand then there's the the human manifestation that the Jesus is like the name of God in a form you can understand. So the the the thing that I present, let's just use me an example. The thing I try to present to my daughter is it's not disingenuous like it's not like I act like I'm one way but I'm really a different way. It's just this is the version of the same love is there. All that other stuff that I'm off doing trying to figure out the taxes, trying to do this is to care for the child. Like it's it's the same as the like hey let's have fun and play but you can't understand how the other thing is is also so you have the character of God that love the unknowable essence of God shows up in these most sacred things for human beings which is love and truth right Swedenborg says these astounding things sometimes about how you know like as your example of what a parent's thinking about the child knows nothing Uh Swedenborg says that uh God spends quite a bit of effort making sure that the lowest devils don't oppose the middle angels because they could wipe them out. He has them against the highest angels who can deal with them. And so keeping a balance between which type of evil spirit and which type, you know, like we don't know anything about that. You know, like balancing the heaven, we benefit from that. We don't know anything about it. It's like what what's the parent doing? We have no idea, you know. Yes. Okay. Just completely This is not something we ever thought to be worried about. Oh, yeah. Well, so um like when I was a little kid, my mom would take us grocery shopping and I'm just like hanging on the front of the cart and can we get a lollipop? I don't understand anything about nutrition. I don't understand anything about veget as opposed to that box. I don't understand trying to figure out what's a protein that Curtis can eat even though he's picky. Like I don't Huh. And then I remember my dad was an engineer and I remember like thinking I was like he was had to bring some work home and was like figure it's like some drawing for like a designing a connector. And I remember like drawing a little um thing on a on a sheet that what is what I imagined and I was secretly hoping he would notice it and be like, "Oh, that's the thing I needed to," you know, because you have s you have so no concept of of the world that those grown-ups are actually in. Um so we do not understand the parents, but we understand the love we interface with. So we understand that you know them them playing with us, them taking care of us. We understand that version of it. So it is here where you do not understand what God is but then you understand the goodness and that is the acclimated the the human version of God. Yes. and and respecting that like considering that to be holy you know what you can see to say that that's holy that goodness yeah or the uh person of Jesus or or whatever you know it's just to think those those I'll I'll give my respect to that goodness love compassion those things are divine qualities. So those things are important. I'm telling you to look both ways before you cross the street. You got to do it. I can't explain I can't explain to you broken bones and hemorrhages and the rules of the road like why cars are on this side or that side or Yeah. But but you got to listen if I'm telling you you got to look both ways. That's, you know, what the prayer is asking us to do is to say, "All right, I'm going to I'm going to listen to what goodness and truth are saying." Um, because they're hallowed. Yeah. Thank you. I want to say thanks to everybody who's donated to support the Swedenborg Foundation, the not for profofit that puts this on. Without that, there wouldn't be any of this. If you haven't donated or you haven't donated in a while and you like what we're doing, click the link in the description, make a gift of any size, and you are part of this being what it is. Thanks.

So, the next line in the prayer is, "Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Here's what Swedenborg has to say about that. That kingdom in the word symbolizes heaven and the church in respect to truths is evident from many passages in the word. From this it is plain what is meant by kingdom in the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come is a prayer that truth may be received. Thy will be done that it may be received by those who do God's will. Aha. I've often thought about the it seemed like the the name this is going to sound very strange but the the na name seemed very external like it's a it's a very outward thing the name has to be holy which is a very high thing okay and then the kingdom has to come and then the will has to be done it would sort of have that shape in my in my mind and the way that it happened I love sort of correspond reverses. Each one's doing something and then as in heaven so upon the earth. Um that's my favorite part of the prayer. I don't know. I I just love those something about the kingdom come, something about the will being done, the heaven and earth coming together. It's got a rhythm to it. Yeah. And when I really sit down and meditate on the prayer, frankly, I often don't get to the second half because I sort of stay with with those elements. I shouldn't confess that in front of the world. It's not fair that those elements got to be first. Kingdom Come on. Yeah. Yeah. It's got it's got a um there's a rhythm to it. It's a flow. It's completing. It's like you're checking boxes off and and by the third or fourth, you know what the next set will kind of feel like. Yeah.

So, this is interesting that kingdom is often interpreted literally, meaning God will come and rule the world and that's what the kingdom is. The kingdom. That's right. And it's funny that Swedenborg doesn't really uh leave that neighborhood. He just changes what the street you're on is. Yeah. Because he's saying that the kingdom in the word, again, this is you look throughout the book, this is not the only mention of kingdom. No, not there's kingdoms all over the place. Yes. In the word and he's saying that always that has reference to beliefs or truths to to concepts. the symbolism is. So, so this is to say the kingdom of God is all the all the truth that makes God rule over something. Yes, that's right. And uh it's often paired elsewhere in scripture with nation, the kingdoms and the nations. And the nations will have to do with the love side. So the the kingdom is like the intellectual structure of it you know, the the insight and and all that whereas the nation side will be the love side and the love shows up in other ways in the prayers we already talked about. Yeah. So it's not that farfetched if you think that so kingdom sounds oldfashioned but that's just what you used to sort of call country. Yes. Right. So if you think about because a lot of them were monarchies back in the day. Yeah. But you think about countries, especially good countries, what like what defines them is their uh legal system. The their law, the laws of the kingdom. That's true. The law of the land. Like what's the difference? A lot of the time between you cross a border between one country and another, you're coming under a different set of laws. Yeah. So if you think about that's a decent way to define the kingdom of the Lord. So if you take some of the laws, let's say that the the Bible, Swedenborg would call the word is these are a bunch of truths from God. So if you think about love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others that came to mind as you would have them do unto you. Um forgive there's all these the ten commandments. Don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't murder. Um, in the place where all those are obeyed, if it's inside of you and you're living by that code, if there's a who's really ruling, it'll be God because who set the rules and so who's so I can see that the king so you want the kingdom of God is that you want the truths, the deep truths of of love to rule and it rather than whatever I feel like doing right now rules. Yes. And it makes me think of this second coming like this this prediction that there there'll be this beautiful time in the future, you know, where that Jesus is coming back where that kingdom comes. Yeah. And is here. And then the fact that it says heaven and earth as in heaven so upon the earth. Doesn't that sort of sum up that yes, in heaven they do the Lord's will and they live in the Lord's kingdom, you know, but the idea is, hey, we'll get that on earth, too, that that we'll be doing is we'll we'll be living in that that kingdom. And so, I like that sense that there's that there's a beautiful prophecy in there. That's what we're praying. We're praying for heaven on earth is the short way that I would say it. you know, for earth to be more heavenlike in the true and beautiful way that Swedenborg explains how heaven works, not in some distorted idea of, oh, there's going to be a huge theocracy and we'll all have to march to, you know, or something like that. You know, people that did heretical podcasts will be in chains. Yes. Well, there'll be one orthodoxy and all to it. Well, if you think about it, like what's I guess I was um pointing at this before, but what if you just ask anybody, what's the difference between good government and bad government? It is um the good government is it's about laws that are just. Yes, it's about laws that are just. Bad government is the tyrannical will of whoever is in power. Yeah. when they are doing things that are not that their their actions do not align with the higher order of just laws that are obviously for the benefit of the of the society. Yeah. The idea of the common good that uh you know that all all people benefit or some a system that's fair is another word, isn't it? So what would it be if the Lord were to rule as you're saying a theocracy? What would that even mean? It would just mean that whatever God says today goes God God's not like that or else how could you leave a a revelatory text that that is supposed to be relevant for people over thousands of years. Yeah. There's certain principles that God stands for. And again, if we're saying that Jesus is this God made visible, well, he's very clearly he's like, there's a certain way to do it. And the way to do it is is like it's nice. It's being nice. It's being good to people. That's what's attracted people to Christianity in the first place is that a lot of the sentiments, even for people who don't like some of the implementations of Christianity, almost everyone will admire at least some of Jesus's sentiments because they're they do seem like they're fair and good. Yeah. So that's the kingdom is like following these true ethical principles.

Let's talk about the will. Thy will be done. Um Swedenborg says this will in reference to the Lord means divine love because the divine itself from which are all things is the divine love because a person's will is his or her love. So any one of us we're defined by what we what we love. That's a Swedenborgism. That's right. And God's will is the divine love. It can be seen what is meant in the spiritual sense by doing the will of God and the will of the father. Namely that it is to love God above all things and the neighbor as oneself. And since to love is to will, so it is also to do. For what people love, they also will. And what they will they also do. I love that commandments. Yeah. And and so the the fact that that's paired with the king because you might think the kingdom would be like it's sort of a lot of dos and don'ts. I mean, you know, don't do this, do do this, and and and that's that's all true, but the will part is like, hey, this is about loving God above all else and loving your neighbor as yourself. That's what we're talking about. And so all the kingdomness is about those things. Those things are enshrined at the center of the the kingdom. That's what the kingdom's for. Yeah. And you know what's funny is um the the one thing that absolutely cannot be commanded is to love something. You know, it's so true. Like you can enforce behav you can command behavior. Yep. Which you can absolutely you can you can command politeness or you know manners or or things like that. Yeah, you command don't steal, you know, if if somebody uh has a walker, you have to open the door for them. Whatever. What you cannot command is love. And yet here is God saying these these are the rules. Like the two the things that you have to do, love God and love the neighbor. And I say that like I think that it's that's the difference is it's it's ultimate expression is never in like I'm going to force you to do these things. It's like if you want to live by my in my kingdom, this is what you need to do is find a way to make that love real. Yes. This is what following the Lord means. Like he says, take up your cross, follow me. Well, following with, you know, he lived an amazing life of love. Yeah. So, it's like a different kind of it's a different kind of ask. This is this is it's a it's a it's pursue p to to say pursue love is different than saying um as you get framed in sort of the old testament don't do this, don't kill whereas Jesus will go into each of those ten commandments and say you you know you've heard you know don't don't murder but don't even hate people yes it it it goes farther um it's also interesting to me that that some People think about well what is the Lord's will or I know what the Lord wants in this situation you know and sometimes you you could debate about well is it the Lord's will I don't know whether it's the Lord's will or not but this the classic example would be the megaurch pastor who's like I know God wants me to get a jet which is really happened yeah that really that really happens interesting here that the Lord's will is that you you love each other and you love God it doesn't sound like there's a whole lot of well you have to do it exactly this way and you can't do it that way you know it's uh the freedom freedom is part of love. Yeah. You know it's a free kingdom we're talking about. It's not a sort of command and control situation. That's not how God does it. Yes. And what we've been learning about the nature of God's will clarifies this little feeling that you get when you hear the the great commandments. It's like my two commandments to all of you are love me and love each other and love each other. It's like oh that is benevolence. I but what's this love you thing? But if if you understand what we've established in the beginning of the prayer which is that what is God? Like how do we experience God? It's goodness. Yeah. And and the truth is fairness. To love those things is to love the neighbor. It's a different It's different than just adore me for who I am, but rather do and it's even talked about that here, do good things and believe true things. That's what I'm commanding you to do. and curious that it doesn't use the word love and you know like you don't see that literally sitting right on the surface of the prayer but the fact that it uses the term father or speaks about the will or heaven things like that yeah it it it's in there

Let's talk about the daily bread because the next line is give us this day our daily bread. Swedenborg says the following everyone can see that goodness and truth are a person's genuine food. Anyone deprived of them is dead, not living. Talking with angels about the memory of the past and resulting worries about the future, I learned that the deeper and more perfect angels are, the less they care about the past or think about the future. That is why they are happy. From moment to moment, they said, "The Lord shows them what to think and supplies them with blessings and happiness so that they are free of worries and cares." This is what is meant in an inner sense by receiving mana from heaven daily, by the daily ration of bread mentioned in the Lord's Prayer, and by being forbidden to worry about what we will eat or drink or how we will be clothed.

That's really, really beautiful. Okay. Really, really beautiful. So again, we're going to another attitude com to to say to the Lord in this, give us our bread today. That's about trusting in the That's nice. It's giving you uh this is the psychological lens through which you should view uh the trajectory of your life or or through which you should assess the threat levels of the future. And it's not sort of saying feed me now, you know, it's a very different spirit than that. It the the emphasis on the on the day. And in the Greek of one of the prayers, it says each day every day. You know, give us our daily bread every day. And uh the other one says today. Um that's that's beautiful. It's and that that sense of just hey I just picture the angels being in this state where they are so far into trusting this whole thing. Well, I heard you got a this speech tonight. What are you going to talk about? I'll I'll I'll say whatever comes to mind. You know, yeah, I'm not I'm not fattening about it. I I know what the purpose is and it'll it'll come. It'll be good. give us this day our daily bread is is essentially saying live in the present moment. And but it's not it's a little more sophisticated than that because it's saying uh goodness and truth, you like basically I know that you will provide me with what I need today with the good things and the true things that I need today. That's a little different than just whatever happens happens. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And the association that Swedenborg makes there, which is great, with the mana, this sort of mystical bread that would appear uh for the children of Israel and and feed them, sustain them when they're in the wilderness. Um suggests that it's bread from heaven and Jesus says, "I'm the bread." Doesn't he come down from heaven? And he does. And and so that idea of heavenly bread, it might take Swedenborg to tell us that well it's talking about goodness and truth, but you can see that there's something beautiful that comes down from heaven that you're praying for that's of divine origin, you know, and it's not as simple as saying, look, I'm I'm starving, you know, feed me physical food. This is talking about a kind of spiritual food that you can even get when when you're hungry like like it's it's separate from from the issue of physical food. Yeah.

Tell me if I'm wrong about this, but it seems to me like so you have the the the literal sense of the Bible. And then Swedenborg comes along and says, "Guess what you guys, there is by divine design within this text these deeper layers of meaning. We'll just simplify it by there's a literal sense, but there's also a spiritual sense." So within the external things it's describing, there's internal stuff. Is it true that the spiritual sense is really just making is just the psychological sense like this the the mind your thoughts and feelings sense and if we go back and look at what this has been doing in the prayer so far it's like our father who art in heaven which sounds like person divine person out there in far away place yes actually turns out to be uh you know love uh the the divine love and how it dwells with us right um hallowed be thy name is you know seek and believe the truth which it's it's all activities that happen anytime in in your mind right in your mind right yeah as as the it says in the old testament this is not far off that you have to go cross the sea to go get it it's right it's right in in you that's interesting I feel like if if you had to summarize what what do you mean Swedenborg there's a spiritual sense you would say there's the external sense of the Bible where it describes um wars and travels and food and um environment but then the internal sense is about the m it's about what happens in your in your consciousness. Yes. And there's a fundamental kind of um universality, you know, when you're reading about Joshua doing this in this particular story. That's that's a a person and there's some other people that specific spot on the planet at a specific time period and here's what happened. But the universality of the spiritual meaning is that it's stuff that we all we all have a will and an intellect. We there's goodness and truth the thoughts and feelings. You know this is the world we all live in. This is who we are.

We move on to and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. This is from Swedenborg's divine providence. A popular misconception is that when sins have been forgiven, they are also set aside. When the sequence sequence is reversed though it is true when sins have been set aside, they are forgiven. Huh? Repentance must preede forgiveness and apart from repentance there is no forgiveness. That is why the Lord told his disciples to preach repentance for the forgiveness of sins and why John preached the baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. The Lord forgives everyone's sins. He does not accuse us or keep score. However, he cannot take our sins away except by the laws of his divine providence. For when Peter asked him how many times he should forgive someone who had sinned against him, whether seven was enough, he said that Peter should forgive not seven times but 70 times seven times. What does this tell us about the Lord who is mercy itself? That's a beautiful emphasis on what a great little summary of how repentance fits in with forgiveness. And so the Lord's just radiating this blanket forgiveness. But if we don't go through the process, there's there's rules of how that works to lay these things aside. And until we we do that, we don't, you know, we don't get that benefit in the same way cuz that still clings to us that issue. We haven't sort of shaken it off. And it's got the idea again of community that we we forgive others, right? Yeah. Like, you know, forgive us, we're we're forgiving others. So, there's such a beautiful sense of community throughout the prayer. What I like about Swedenborg's uh description of forgiveness of and sins and stuff is it shifts the the danger frame from the danger is God being upset with you to the danger is the actual bad behavior itself. So yes, right. That's good cuz in I've seen skits about this which is like the only the only reason why people are getting in big trouble by God and he's going to send them into hell and all this stuff is like if you could just let that go we'd all be fine. Like if you weren't so like wound up about this stuff everything would be fine. Whereas what this is saying is the anger of God is not a factor. This is you're talking about an being of infinite love and infinite wisdom is not going to get triggered. It's just he he's cool. He's fine. He's got this under control. That's not the issue. He sees all the mitigating factors and the circumstances and all that. So like that's

not the issue. The it's not that he's mad at you. The issue is though the things that are flagged as sins are do so because they genuinely are destructive to uh human life.

>> Yes. >> So >> such an important concept. you can't if you're saying, you know, for forgive us our debts, it's like, well, yeah, I'm not I'm not mad at you, but if you don't stop doing that stuff, I can't I can't abs I can't remove the damage of the actions.

>> Yeah. I I can't cancel the consequences >> to your own spirit. >> Yeah. >> Of a life devoted to, you know, cruelty and revenge or whatever it might be. and do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Swedenborg says in Secrets of Heaven, I was given the opportunity to perceive angels ideas on the following words in the Lord's Prayer. Do not lead us into crisis, but free us from evil. The good spirits nearest me discarded crisis and evil by a certain way of thinking perceptible to me.

>> They rejected those ideas so thoroughly that what remained was purely angelic. Specifically, what was left was goodness without a hint of crisis or evil. In this way, the literal meaning died away completely. The first steps of the process was to form countless ideas of this goodness. How something beneficial comes of our affliction, and yet the affliction rises out of us and our evil, which contains its own penalty. Attached to these ideas was a kind of indignation that anyone should think that crises and their evils come from anywhere else and that anyone should think about evil when thinking about the Lord. These ideas were purified as they rose higher and higher. Their journey upward was represented by the discarding of certain elements. These elements were discarded in a manner and with a speed that are impossible to express until the ideas finally passed into an area of thought that was shadowy to me. Then they were in heaven where the angels think only of the Lord's goodness in thoughts that are ineffable.

Bet you didn't think I was about to say that. >> I did not. >> That's a left turn. >> No, that was quite a turn there. That was like got a little bit of um Yeah, the G forces went up there. The uh and uh it made me think of a centrifuge. I don't know why, but just the idea that things spin and then the things that are heavier kind of, you know, are just just separated out. This is how they isn't in the lab, isn't this a lot of how they >> separate out different molecules or things like that because things that have more weight just shoot out to the sides and and so what an amazing thought that that because I know it's a phrase that some people really get stuck on because it says don't lead us into temptation and yet this whole idea of temptation seems really important. Uh James doesn't he say oh count it all joy when you go through diverse temptations because you know this this will improve you and Swedenborg says oh yes it's an important part of how you really get reborn is going through this so why would you say don't lead us into it >> and then it seems like does it mean but deliver us from evil but bracket do whatever you have to do to deliver us from evil.

>> Yes. You know, because that yes, we don't want to go through suffering. Yeah. >> But if we have to, the main goal is to be delivered from evil. >> And part of it simply shifts the >> it's pleading with the Lord. Again, it's acknowledging that the Lord has power.

>> Yeah. >> Over over evil and and over our suffering.

>> So, I was thinking about what it does in here is it says, "Hey, look, you think that God is causing problems in your life. Um but really how does he say it's it's really your own evil which causes those things and you can get um and rightfully so triggered that oh this is just like religion is telling everyone that they're bad yeah and shameful and that that's damaging.

>> That's one of the chief products. That's the one that you >> one of the >> so selling points >> I would yeah that can definitely be abused and especially when it's just a blanket at like you're always guilty no matter what like original sin you doesn't matter what you did or didn't do or or sometimes you'll see it you know in like these like YouTube evangelists are like well did you ever lie once if you ever lied once then you fallen short of the kingdom of God like this sort of like moral absurdity >> so yeah sure That's not good. However, if you look at outside that context when there actually is uh the actual power of acknowledging your role in the problem. So, if you think about like uh couples therapy, uh you're going to go there cuz you're you're trying to you're you're like you're married and you're having some problems and you go there. Is it or isn't it a good thing when you realize, oh, >> I've been doing that which makes things worse? Like, yes. Oh, some of the like if if if you go in if you're a seasoned therapist and a couple comes in and one or both of them are like, well, there's your problem right there. That's the problem. I've just been doing this good and this good and this good and there's your problem. Now that's not impossible but as a red flag as like the ve it's very likely that you are not understanding your contribution to this and how difficult is it to ever get anywhere unless you like to in the in the therapeutic setting you realizing the problems that you're contributing that is more precious than gold to to the goal. So that's I would that's how I would see this here, which is like, oh, understanding. Here's here's what I bring to this uh that's going to let me move forward and let God do kind of the surgery to get those things out of me. And same thing I'm thinking about, you know, isn't that what >> you love somebody, their life is being torn apart by addiction until they decide they want help and that they are a problem. doesn't you you can do anything won't do anything. >> It's a lot of um effort you can pour in and just have your heart broken kind of thing because it it just doesn't move forward. There's there's another agenda going on.

The prayer ends with for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. Swedenborg writes that thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory means divine truth from God alone. It is al it is also said power and glory because divine truth has all power and glory. Yes. Right. So there you get kingdom coming back. Kingdom is a is a truth word. Swedenborg says glory is a truth word as well and power is the power that love has through truth. So, it's interesting that you would end with those three things that are kind of on the on the truth side. I don't know if I'm making a lick of >> Well, and you were talking before about the as in heaven, so upon the earth. I bet if you looked at it in detail, it's like that's capping up something that there's an there's a there's a logic like a structure. There's a completeness to it >> and there's an acknowledgment of like the th all those things are yours. You know, it's it's the Lord's kingdom, you know, yours is the power, yours is the glory. We human beings. We tend to sort of like it's my power, my glory, you know, and there's something good about the the humility in the prayer to admit that.

>> If you think of it too as what do we define God as? as like what are the characteristics of God? It's this universal love and universal truth. That's who God is. You can Swedenborg does say it's very important to think of God like a person. This is absolutely a being with a will and a mind even if they're expansive and infinite. But if you think of God basically representing the common good, then you have all of human problematic uh orientation in a nutshell. Because to say this is all about me, this is my kingdom and my power and glory versus this is all about the human race. That's the root of all evil and and all um you know damaging behavior is to put self at the center when obviously there's this larger thing going on.

>> And if I can just um geek out on Greek for a second. >> Greek geek let's do it. The um the first half of the prayer has this great little rhythm to it. Says and that sue means yours. So it must be holied. The name yours you know uh the will that must be done is yours. The kingdom that must come is yours. So, in a certain way, the the Greek emphasizes the your will is the one that needs to be done. Your kingdom is the one that needs to come, not not mine kind of thing. Your your name needs to be holy. Don't worry about my name, >> you know.

>> Can you say that again? No, I just mean the Greek part. I get what you mean. I never heard this in my life. So, one more time. >> That last beat is as in heaven so upon the earth. It's almost got the same rhythm to it. >> Okay. So, I'm hoping somebody out there can clip that and make it into a song, right? Put a put a beat behind it. That that is that's awesome. And and yeah, that so >> I never thought about that that that that's in the language there. That's great. So, >> as that proves, there's so much in there. We're just scratching the surface here. Swedenborg alludes to this. He says, "When the Lord's prayer is being said, which embraces all heavenly and spiritual things within it, so much can be poured into every least detail that heaven itself is not great enough to contain it all."

>> And this of course depending on the capacity and use of each individual. So again, where do you find anywhere Christianity or outside Christianity where a a position of such importance and the reasons for it is assigned to this bit of text? >> Yeah. >> And you would think if it if it really is true that there's a God out there and that God has some kind of providence where God is to whatever extent inter intervening in human affairs. >> Yep. And wouldn't it then make sense that if God directly asked people to say this and it happens to be I I can't think of another contender for the most recited thing ever. If you think about how many people every week now just say that >> um wouldn't Providence want the the thing that people are saying most >> to be this incredibly powerful thing that has all this spiritual potential in it? That makes sense. why why your providence would spread it far and wide.

>> And it's quite succinct. It's kind of like the ten commandments that way. It just gets on with it. Boom boom boom boom boom. A few phrases easy to memorize, right? >> Yeah. >> Uh it's a it's a great thing. So next time you know people are at home or or they're they go to church or whenever uh and you got occasion to or maybe you never have said this prayer and you think oh that's kind of actually cool or maybe I want to try it. As you go through hopefully some of this sticks in your mind or you'll get new insights about it. Uh, and and think of it as, you know, not just a little poem, but a um it's not just a little poem. It's like a it's like a mini index of everything that's important about life.