Transcription
Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical.
[Music] [Applause] [Music]
Hey guys, welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Charlie Cook. He is Senior Director of Women's Health and Metabolism Field Medical at Pfizer, and we talk about top interview questions to ask hiring managers. Charlie is awesome. You guys are going to love this great conversation. Don't forget to share it with your friends. I think this is a really good one. Um, also, follow us on, um, Instagram, subscribe to us on YouTube, and check us out on MSL Talk Live, which is the first Tuesday of every month at 1:30 p.m. Eastern Time. We've been getting huge turnouts. It's been a great experience. Um, and that's on Clubhouse. Thanks so much.
Hey Charlie, welcome back to the podcast.
Hey, how are you? Thanks a lot. Looking forward to it.
Yeah, man. This, listen, you, you were one of the most popular guests we've ever had on this show, so I'm excited to have you back. And, uh, and this is a great topic, a topic that you came up with.
Yeah, so I'm, you know, obviously been doing a lot of hiring previously and doing a little bit more right now. And it really got me thinking as I'm speaking to the candidates, you know, really, you know, thinking about the candidates, really need to be asking certain questions or types of questions to hiring managers. And, and sometimes I hear them, and many times I don't. And I just think it's an important thing that, uh, candidates need to think about.
Awesome. Well, let's do a quick intro. I want to make sure anybody that's new to the podcast, um, if you can introduce yourself, that'd be awesome.
Sure. Uh, so I'm Charlie Cook, and I'm a Senior Director in Field Medical on the Women's Health and Metabolism team, uh, at Pfizer. So I recently started here in January, and we are a growing team. And so there are two other team leaders that I partner with. Um, and as I said, we're within the Internal Medicine group, which is great because you cover lots of different things, and it keeps it, keeps it exciting.
Yeah, awesome. Well, congrats on your new job. They're very lucky to have you. I can tell you that.
I appreciate that.
Yeah. And quick, before we start, quick shout out to our listeners in Italy. So we are right now, as we speak, ranked number six in Italy in the careers category. Um, so that's a, I always love to give the shout out to the top 10 rankings. Um, many of you probably figured or know that I am Italian. I'm Italian-American. Um, coincidentally, my name is not Italian. So Caravella, which sounds like an Italian name, is actually a Portuguese name. So I'm actually half Italian and I'm half Portuguese. My dad's 100% Portuguese. So I got to give a shout out to my friends in Portugal because we rank really high in Portugal too. So thank you guys, all my friends in Europe for listening.
Um, so without further ado, Charlie, let's jump into it. So you came up with this idea of what some of the top questions should be on an interview for hiring managers. So before we get into those, why is it important for candidates to come prepared and ask the right questions on interviews?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, we think of interviews always happening from the employer, you know, the employer is is interviewing and gathering information about the candidate to see if they're appropriate for filling that role. And obviously, that is one purpose of it. But I think candidates need to keep in mind that they are, they are interviewing the company. You know, they're trying to figure out, hey, am I a good fit for this company, for this particular role? So that's, that's one reason. And then the other is, I think when you have good questions, that demonstrates to the hiring manager that you have prepared, you've spent significant time researching the company, and, and you're highly engaged in this, and, and that's important to get across because hiring managers want to know that they're going to bring on somebody who really wants to be here.
I couldn't agree more. And, you know, it also shows interest and excitement. Now, if you're interviewing somebody and they have no questions, are they really, are they really interested? Right? Because I know if I'm interested in a job, I'm, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna have naturally have questions because I wanna know, I'm gonna wanna know where I'm working, what the expectations are, how do I be successful, what's the culture like, you know, what am I signing on for? So if you don't have some of those questions, um, or at least show that you've been, you're prepared and excited by asking those questions, I think you're missing an opportunity.
You're so right. Because, uh, you know, you may have all the necessary skills and, and, and things like that. But, but if the hiring manager doesn't feel that you're really vested and this is something that you really want, uh, and another candidate has that, you know, you could easily be looked over, right? Because of that. Right?
So what would you say are some of the basic questions that candidates should be prepared to ask?
Sure. So I think in today's world, where COVID is still present and the ever-evolving, you know, changes that are associated with it, you really need to understand what are the company's expectations in terms of in-person, uh, KOL meetings, as well as virtual. And I think most companies have some level of hybrid, uh, expectations where you can do some virtual, you can do some in-person. But you really need to understand, you know, as things open up, is there a, a significant push that they want you to be out, you know, doing many more in-person versus virtual and things like that? So I think that's kind of key right now because that's, that's a hot topic just within the industry for sure.
Yeah. Uh, another question that's important is obviously, how are you measured in the role? What are the metrics look like? And, and, you know, you and I have talked a lot about this, uh, previously, and there's lots of ways companies look at it. And it's likely some combination of quantitative as well as qualitative. And so I just think you should know what that is going in, what, what that ratio or what other factors are, are being, um, measured in terms of gauging your performance.
Yeah, and I love that question because only people that are concerned with, with their performance are going to ask questions like that. You know, top performers, go-getters, overachievers, they always want to know, hey, what do I need to do to, to, right, to stand out? So I think those are great questions.
Yeah, it tells you where, where's the goal post. Yeah. And that's, like you said, top achievers, they want to achieve things, and they need to know where they're going and what is going to count as a score. Yeah.
Yeah. And then what about, so what about beyond the basics? Beyond the basic questions?
Yeah. So I think, uh, to me, another hot area of discussion is really your partnerships with other field colleagues. And so that can include, you know, commercial sales reps, uh, the CAMs or the Key Account Managers, who were, you know, more of a commercial, uh, side of the business, maybe a reimbursement manager, could be other, uh, MSLs on other therapeutic areas because, you know, again, as we get back out into the field, you know, there, there are many territories, for example, that are like starting over where someone hasn't been out there in person in several years. And so trying to build those relationships can be hard. We know, and we really see that a lot of the KOLs' time is, is still very tight and crunched. And so getting access to them to have a meeting is hard. And if you can, you know, leverage a relationship that maybe your sales rep has with somebody that can introduce you to them, uh, that's a great way. Um, so you got to understand the compliance around this, but I really think that those partnerships are going to be really key in, in your success as an MSL coming into this kind of new hybrid world.
Yeah, you know, it does something else too. When you ask those types of questions about relationships with your commercial counterparts and partnerships and how it affects the role, what the expectations are, it shows a lot of maturity for an MSL. Someone who's an aspiring MSL or someone who's a newer MSL might not even think to ask those questions. But when you start asking those questions, it shows it, it shows that you have the mindset of an experienced MSL. Yeah, that you've talked to people, that you understand what the role is. I mean, at the most basic level, right, this role is around responding to questions, providing medical information, having scientific discussions with KOLs, and that's at the most basic level. But how you accomplish that, how you do that can be complex. Uh, and, and working with your commercial counterparts is going to be a key in working with other field members. You know, I think another thing to understand is, and this can vary from company to company, but in those partnerships with commercial colleagues, what can you do compliantly? You know, most companies, I think, permit you to, to have a warm handoff. You know, so a commercial colleague could bring you into a meeting, introduce you, uh, to the physician, and the commercial colleague would leave, and you could have your, your, your medical scientific discussion there. There's also, you know, instances where, again, that the KOL has a limited time. So you, you know, you, as a company, you and your sales rep might get 30 minutes. And you might talk to yourself, hey, how are we going to divide this up? You know, the medical person, you might say, okay, I need 20 minutes to run through some things with them. So I'll start first, and the commercial colleague goes out in the hallway. And then after that 20 minutes, you change places. And that allows, one, it maximizes the time with the KOL to see individuals from your company. Right. Right.
Yeah, that's good stuff. So let's shift gears for a second. What about questions on culture and company core values? How important are those?
I think they're, they're really important. I mean, I always think they're, they're more important than, than, than the, the scientific skills that you may bring. Uh, you know, I think through, through demonstrations of your previous history in terms of, you know, have you, if you've been an MSL before, or, you know, say you're a pharmacist working in a, you know, an academic setting, you know, have you covered multiple therapeutic areas? I mean, if you've demonstrated that you can, you know, change therapeutic areas and do that quite well, okay, that, that kind of meets the requirement there. And then the company is looking for what kind of fit are you, uh, within the company? Are you gonna be a good fit for the company in terms of the culture? And that's a question, you know, the hiring manager is trying to determine from you, but you need to be determining that from the hiring manager, uh, as well. So I think that's almost more important than, than some of the nuts and bolts of doing the job.
Yeah, you know, some of the, the most basic way to start is, is looking on the company's website. Most of them publish, you know, what their values are or statements like that, their mission, and things like that. So you can start to get a sense of what the culture is like. And then, you know, I also think it's important, you know, many of these companies have statements on the internet and you can read them, but ask the hiring manager, you know, how are they, how are they, um, lived? You know, how are they felt within the company? Because, you know, it could be on paper, it looks great, but you get the sense from the hiring manager. Yeah. Yeah, we have those, but, you know, we don't follow them. You know, or, or you get the sense that, okay, they, they talk about, you know, we're being demonstrating respect for others and things like that, but you get the sense that maybe this hiring manager doesn't embrace them that much.
Well, it's funny, you know, sometimes we see like core values could be a bumper sticker, it could be a slogan on a website, it could be a sign on the door. Some companies, they have them, they don't really take them seriously. Other companies live by them. Yeah. We recently went through an exercise here where we've identified our core values, and I, I, we talk about them all the time. Um, it's, it's, I, we practice our core values. And in organizations that, that believe in it, if you ask about it, it's showing them that you're the type of person that wants to be in line with the core values. I would say that if you ask sincerely, with sincerity, and if you genuinely want to know what type of behavior, because core, core values are behaviors. It's, it's expected behaviors. And if you show them that that's important to you, you're actually showing them that this is how you want to know what's expected behavior in an organization.
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think an easy question to ask is, you know, what are your core values? And see if the manager can recite them and how well do they kind of flow off the tongue? Because, you know, if, if the manager struggles to name them and explain them, well, you know, you need to try why is that?
Well, yeah, are they a new manager? They just started the company? Or, or are they something that's, yeah, it's like you said, it's a bumper sticker and they just don't really, they're not buying into it.
Yeah. So I think that that starts kind of at the high level, at the company level. You'll get a sense of what the company is like based upon the core values that they have.
Well, and I kind of also think it's, it, um, it's, it's a good question to ask HR folks. HR, HR folks seem to always want to talk about core values. That's a big HR thing. So I think it's, you know, sometimes you might want to tailor what questions you ask to which people when you're putting together your, your strategy for your interview.
And what about, I know that it's very commonplace now for hiring managers to ask candidates situational or behavioral based questions. Does it, it makes sense? Or, or is it something that you might expect for somebody to ask you some type of behavioral based question? Is that a thing?
So I, you know, this kind of came to me over the past couple weeks, just given the amount of interviewing I've done. And I would say that I can't say that I've been asked necessarily kind of a behavioral question like that. But I really think it could be valuable to, to ask a question. You know, and that's where I think, you know, if you're willing to do it, I think you could learn a lot. And, you know, if you know, you could ask the hiring manager, you know, tell me about a time, you know, a challenging time that the team went through something, you know, what was it? How did you lead the team through that? You know, what did you learn from it? What were the outcomes? And, and, you know, it might catch the hiring manager off guard because that's the question used to ask you. But I do think you'll get a, a really good insight into the culture, the values, uh, you know, what that hiring manager views as being important. Yep. In any given situation. So, you know, I think people should start doing it. As I said, I haven't necessarily, people have asked good questions, but it's never been a behavioral question like that.
Well, and the reason I, and the reason I ask this, isn't something that I prep my candidates on, something to do. It's not a technique that we promote. But it has come up recently. I've, I've had people say to me that, hey, this is something that I was told to do, or I had, you know, I had a coach or somebody, or read it in a magazine or or on a website or something. And it made me start to think, I think that, um, you could stand out by asking a good question. I think my only, my only words of caution when it relates to this is, you want to make sure you're not challenging the person. Yeah, because you're really not interviewing, you kind of are interviewing them, but you're really not interviewing them, right? You're being interviewed. So you want to show the level of respect that that person deserves. So you don't want to start asking them, you know, you know, riddles and, you know, and put them on the spot. Um, so I would caution people. But I think it's, if asked the right way, where it's, it's inquisitive and there's a curiosity in there, I think you might be able to to impress someone.
Yeah, I think, I totally agree. Because, you know, after you've been peppered with lots of these behavioral questions, you don't want to be like, hey, I got one for you, you know, and because it can be a little condescending, or, you know what I mean? But I do, it's the tact, how you go about it, how do you weave that into the conversation. Uh, you know, if you can find it and your personality, you have the right personality to do it, I think you can, can, can do it. Um, but I also think that, you know, even if, you know, many of these behavioral questions are, um, I don't want to say scripted, but, you know, they're kind of, they're boxed in. Yeah. You know, I think you can, as a hiring manager is talking about things, I mean, you can ask them questions like, okay, oh, in that situation, now, um, you explain like, you know, what did you do from a leadership perspective? Like, you could ask certain questions that will show your, uh, a more in-depth level of inquisitiveness and interest that that may, um, you know, that may reveal something to you that could be interesting and invaluable to help you make a decision about that company.
Yeah. How do you feel? I want to throw some questions at you because there's some things that we typically come across. We see, we recommend. One of the things that we always recommend is to ask the hiring manager, um, what are you looking for? What would, how would you describe an ideal candidate for this position?
Good question. I like it. Yeah.
And, you know, I don't say it's a, it's a hard question, but I always worry that my response comes across as kind of a canned response, right? We want somebody with scientific knowledge, and we want them to be a good team player, and, you know, and things like that. So I think it's important as to when I receive a question like that, is to give some examples. You know, oh yeah, we really want people who are good team players who can partner, you know, for example, uh, you know, if you're, you're meeting with the KOL and, and your sales rep has been having problems getting access to that person, I would want you to work, you know, help your sales rep get in there. That's something. So instead of kind of giving the high-level overview that probably many, you know, people give in terms of the type of candidate they're looking for, give some examples because I do think that provides a lot more color. And as you provide those examples, you're actually telling the candidate what you find important. Yeah, where the value is.
And the reason it's a good question to ask is that when you're a candidate, you ask the question, hiring manager gives you the answer. Now, at some point in time during the interview, you could sprinkle in some stories or some examples of how you've displayed the things that the manager just said that they wanted.
Yes, absolutely. And, you know, I think that's a, like you said, if you can get that question in early, then you kind of can see what is important to that hiring manager. And then, like you said, as you tell your stories, you can weave that information in there. Yeah, you get that. So I think that's that's a really, it's a good question. You get the opportunity to ask that up front.
What about questions where someone asks you for the job? Like a question like, do you see any reason why you wouldn't recommend me for this position? Now, let me stop and pause for a second. That's a big sale. That's a big question. That that sales reps are taught to ask. You want to close, right? The interview, because sales reps are closers. Now, when we're talking about MSLs, which are not sales reps, which are not in sales, actually, it's the opposite. They're in medical affairs, non-promotional. How do you feel about that type of question?
I, it's a hard question to answer, right? Um, you know, because I think in the moment, you know, as a hiring manager, trying to kind of assess and feel them out, and, and, and there might be things that you feel really strongly positive about, there might be some other things that you've got some questions about. And I think it's hard, uh, it's hard to deliver some specific type of feedback, you know, yes or no. I think probably, you know, unless you somehow bomb the interview, you'll get a lukewarm response like, yeah, you've got, you've got things we're looking for and so on and so forth. Would you recommend people? MSLs don't ask that type of question. I don't. Yeah, I would say stay away from it. I would say stay away from it. You know, I think you can ask, um, you know, many times people follow up at the end, you know, is there anything, you know, are there any, um, unanswered questions that you have of me? You know, is there anything that you feel that you're missing that's going to help, you know, make, you know, allow you to make an informed decision about my candidacy? I'd rather get that. Because there are some times, as you're, you're, you're interviewing a candidate, and you're thinking, okay, that, yep, they're checking this off, yep, this looks good. And they say something over here, and you're like, I'm not sure about that. And that's kind of something that's unfinished, right? And maybe you didn't, at the time, you weren't sure what to ask next to gather more information. But they're giving you the opportunity at the end to say, hey, is there any questions that you have? And I've had that, and you might say, you know what, actually, you know, back when you were talking about X, Y, and Z, you know, can you explain a little bit further about that? Or, you know, I had a, and I have, I realized I have a question now that I didn't ask then. I, I kind of like that. It's, you're not, like you said, you're not trying to close a sale. Uh, and so you're not, I don't, it's uncomfortable, you put on the spot in a situation like that.
Well, and that's why I bring it up. Yeah, because, you know, and I bring it up because people get bad advice. You know, there's way too much stuff going on the internet, and people are looking at videos and they're on YouTube, and how to win an interview, right? But the thing is, there's a big difference between interviewing for a position and interviewing for an MSL position. There's nuance to it, for sure. Yeah. And I, I do want to, I bring these questions out not because I'm promoting them, I'm bringing them out because I want people to know what good looks like. Yeah, and what to stay away from. And I think that the better way to go about that type of question might be, and you, you hit the nail on the head, you know, is something along the lines of, you know, is there anything else that you, you know, would like to learn about me? Is there anything else that I can share with you that might help you as we close up this process? Or something along the lines of, you know, Charlie, I just want to thank you for your time today. I can't tell you how excited I am about this opportunity. And my last question is, um, what would be the next steps in the process? Right? Yeah. And what you're doing is you're just showing your excitement and your enthusiasm, and you're kind of planting the seed that you're expecting there to be something else, right? And hoping that there's something else. Yeah. And I think, I think that is a fair question to ask, no matter what. I mean, even if you're in the interview and you, you realize, one, I'm not sure this is the place for me, or, you know, maybe I stumbled and I don't think I did as well as I had hoped. I think that's a very appropriate question to ask, you know, what are the next steps? Because you shouldn't be left going into a black hole, right? And that oftentimes happens, right? You interview and you say, hey, thanks a lot. Yeah, we got a couple more interviews, we'll be in touch. Yeah, that's, I mean, not even giving an idea around the timeframe. I mean, that's not very helpful. You know, and so I do think that the candidate deserves that respect. You know, even if you made up your mind as a hiring manager, I'm not hiring this person. Yeah, you should give them a timeline. You know, if you've got other interviews going, yep, and we're hoping in two weeks, we'll be done with the interviews, we'll debrief and hopefully make some decisions. So at least you give the candidates some idea of when to expect something. And that, you know, it gives them an idea, do I should I keep interviewing? Or should I schedule that interview next week? Or should I try to delay it? I mean, that's all, it's just out of respect for the candidate.
Yeah. So let's have a little funnier. Do you can you recall like crazy questions or just really bad questions that you've been asked recently on an interview?
I'm trying to think. I mean, crazy questions, not necessarily, but having really no questions. Yeah, you know, and, and I, I recognize, particularly if a candidate is going through, um, you know, a series of interviews throughout the day, and maybe as a hiring manager, I'm one of the last ones. And so, in theory, their list of questions they have may have asked a lot of people, right? Correct. Quote unquote, had them answered. But you better have some questions for each person. And, yeah, and I think you should try to tailor it to them. I mean, your questions to an MSL, you know, may be different than to a hiring manager, or if you're interviewing with somebody that have like, is in medical information, that might be participating in the, so you really need to be able to tailor your questions. And, and that comes back to prep, right? Yeah. And sometimes you find out who's going to be on the interview panel, sometimes you don't. Uh, right. And, and so that can make it hard to prepare. But, but you should have, you know, a laundry list of questions that, you know, when somebody says, you have any questions, even if they've already been answered technically, you should be able to ask them. And, yeah, and, you know, I think try to ask different ones. I mean, sure, some questions you might say, oh, I asked the MSL this, and now I'd like to ask you, as the hiring manager, that's appropriate. But of course, in a debrief, we all talk, and, and someone might say, oh, you know, they had a really good question, it was this, and then everyone else is like, well, they asked me that question too, you know, and that could be good. Or maybe it's not viewed as good because you're just asking the same question, you couldn't think of anything else based upon the unique conversation you had with that individual.
Yeah, I do think, and to your point, I think that it's really important to make sure that when you're face to face with the hiring manager, the person that's making the decision, you want to make sure that you have really good questions for that person. Yes. If, if for nothing else, if you're talking to somebody in HR, you're going to ask them HR questions, right? If you're sitting across somebody, you learn that they're in Med Info, you, you could probably come up with questions for that person that might just be more about the company, the culture, you know, um, you know, how do you interact with, you know, tell me a little bit about how you interact with, you know, field medical? And that's the perfect question. It's appropriate for the role. Yeah, right. Um, so I, I think that that's really good advice. But the other thing I'm wondering, and, and this is, I think what a lot of people are going to want to be thinking right now, how many questions is enough questions? And is there a chance that you could be asking too many questions?
So potentially, you could ask too many questions. Um, you know, and, and I, I think you can gauge, you know, in some recent interviews I've been in, you know, based upon the discussion I was having, you know, the candidate, I said, oh, do you have any questions? And they look at their list, and now, you know, they got one or two, they start off with, which is totally appropriate. But as you have the conversation, they're starting to ask additional questions up based upon what you're saying. It's not like they ask you the question, I answer it, and then I'm done. Oh, let me move to number two. They're, they're, they're driving the discussion, asking questions. And so I don't mind it as part of that this discussion. You know, they pause and think for a minute, oh, I got one more question based upon what you just said. That shows to me that they're thinking. Yeah, you know, they're engaged in the process, that they're processing information, and they're asking real-time questions. You know, I think if somebody has the laundry list of questions, and it's okay to have, you know, a handful of those because maybe those are kind of the key basic questions that, you know, kind of everybody should ask, you know, go ahead and do that. But, uh, you want some give and take there.
Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the questions that I think is important to ask, and, and can be hard to answer, is about, you know, yo, I get this a lot, what's your leadership philosophy? Right? And that's such a kind of murky area. I mean, to me, leadership isn't necessarily a philosophy, it's, it's a lot of behaviors about what you do, how you treat people, and things like that. And so as part of my answer, you know, I, I talk about things that I find important to me in terms of, wanting teamwork, right? You know, I want everybody on the team to be a partner and work together. You know, the MSL role is strange, right? You kind of, you're part of a team, but you're on a spokes on a wheel, and you're out doing the job by yourself. And then on Mondays, you may come back together as a team and talk, and then you go out on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday by yourself. And so to me, it's important to make sure that they understand that this is a team that right together as a team and talk about some examples about how people can work together and support one another as teammates. So I, I mean, that's kind of how I answer that philosophy. You know, it's not like, oh, my, I'm here to drive the poor business and meet the objectives, and it's kind of corporate mumbo jumbo, right? Yeah, I talk about how I'm going to interact with them. And I think that gives a sense of my leadership style or my philosophy.
Well, and I think that, I think people ask that question, they use the term philosophy, but what they really mean is, um, you know, what you're, what's, what's important to you as a leader, right? Yeah. And that's really the better question, right, in my opinion, because you really want to know what it is that is, is most, is going to be most important to that person.
Yeah. And another way I've heard that asked is, you know, you know, if, when I get the chance to speak to, you know, one of the MSLs on your team, how do you think they would describe you as a leader?
That's a really good question. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's getting it, you know, what type of person are you? You know, how are you going to treat them? How are you going to lead? How are you going to handle challenging situations? I mean, those are all really important things. Yeah, to understand. And I, I, going back to something you said before, I just think that there's, you want to show in an interview that you have really good engagement skills, that you have emotional intelligence, especially obviously, we're talking about MSL interviews, these things are important. You have to show that you're an active listener, you have to show that there's a level of intellectual curiosity. And the way you accomplish that is not only by asking the right questions, but it's also how you engage in the conversation.
You just said, Charlie, that is there, can you ask too many questions? Yeah, maybe. But sometimes those questions are a part of the conversation. And if there's still more time left, a lot of time left in your interview, and let's just say with 15 minutes left, you asked them, do you have any questions for me? And the, and that turns into a dialogue, a 15-minute discussion, and there's really good questions. That's what you're looking for. It's not, well, wait a second, I have this list of questions I have to get to, right? Because there's an awkwardness about that as well. There is. I'd say you can probably ask two to three, maybe of those from your list that are not the questions aren't tied together. You know, they hit on various buckets. And, and anything more than that, you know, it's, you're just peppering them with questions, and, and you're not seeing them think or ask follow-up questions to what you're saying.
Yeah. And you're also not making a connection. You're, you're missing an opportunity. The way we connect with people is through dialogue and emotion. Yeah, right. So like, if you're, if it's just going to be transactional, question, answer, question, answer, there's no real engagement. There's no exchange of, of any kind of connection or emotion, right? You're missing an opportunity.
Yes. And I think, and we talked a little bit about this the other day, about many of these interviews are conducted virtually. Yeah. And some things that I, I've seen with candidates is they get asked a question, and they start talking about their answer, and because you're not sitting across the table from each other, there's many cues that are either missed or not given. You know, so if, if I'm talking and going on, and all of a sudden my answer's starting to go on a little bit long, if you're on screen and you're just sitting there, I don't know if you're just intently listening, your mind's wandering. But when you're sitting across the table, you know, you can lean in and say, oh, you can kind of interrupt them or what, what happens? I think in, in Zoom, is nobody says anything. They just sit there and listen. And what I found is sometimes the response goes on and on. So I would say when you're interviewing virtually, you want to give a crisp answer. Yeah. And then stop. And, and then pause and say, you know, did that, did that get at what you were asking? I'm happy to provide more information. But if you kind of keep going on because you're not receiving any verbal cues, like, oh, thank you, you know, and they're just sitting there, and you're, you're not sure when to stop your conversation or your telling your story, that's something it's important. And I think a lot of people make that mistake. And, yeah, it really works against them because I think the hiring team, especially if there's a panel, that's when it gets really confusing. You don't know where to look. Should you have eye contact? Should you not have? I can't tell you. Look straight ahead. Yes. Those are things that can really derail you. But I think that if, if you try to, um, make believe you're live, yeah, and pick up the cues, don't over, don't talk too much, don't overdo it to fill space, maybe give some verbal cues, or maybe ask a question. But like, there's, there's definitely a finesse to it. And that's what you have to try to, to use your best judgment. Yeah, and not just talk. And I think there's nothing wrong with wrapping your answer up and then saying, you know, did that answer your question? Do you need any more information? I want to see kind of, you know, where we are with this, because it's hard because you, you don't get a lot of those verbal cues that indicate like, oh, I'm really engaged in what you're saying, like, that's right on, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. You just kind of see faces that are kind of stone-faced, listening, maybe taking notes, but you don't get the sense of, should I stop? Should I keep going?
Brief. That's great advice. And I think we'll leave it there. Um, Charlie, you're awesome as always. You went a little bit long, but that's because you're awesome. And I really thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Learned a lot. I'm sure a lot of people did as well. So thank you so much for coming on.
You're very welcome. It was a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, man. And hey guys out there, if you like this, if you got a lot of value from this, please share it. We're one of the fastest growing podcasts in the in the world right now. And I appreciate everybody that shares this with a friend, colleague. Um, you guys are are awesome. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next time.
[Music]
Thank you so much for listening to the show. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss episodes in the future. And feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and I look forward to seeing you again soon.