The greatest threat to the nation state of Israel is losing favor with the evangelical church of America. We have big names Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens who are really speaking out against Turk folk who are suddenly questioning Israel. So there is this reality that God says it is part of my redemptive plan. Hey, hey, maybe they're not God's people. Hey, maybe they don't belong in that land. That is the beginning of a very dark slope that has happened over and over and over. The purpose of media is to so shape people's view of reality that even when confronted with a mountain of evidence, they will not change their minds. Brethren, I would not have you be ignorant concerning this relationship with Israel.

Another episode here at the Pastor's Office podcast. We are so grateful that you're tuning in to us. And I would ask a question. How many of you have within your algorithms Israel popping up all over reals, YouTube, social media? And certainly you look at the news, you know, geopolitically, we are dealing with a crisis in the Middle East once again.

But our hope here at the pastor's office podcast is to look through the lens of the scripture. What does God's word have to say? How might it give you and I education, instruction, and how might we interpret what's happening in the world today? That is what this next hour is going to be. And to do so, I have a friend of mine, an older brother in the Lord, and a dear uh comrade in the ministry, Pastor Greg Houston. Thanks for being here, my friend.

Thanks for having me, man. Why don't you for those who are watching, there are some who do not know uh much of your story. They don't know what is your background. So, in just a minute or two, why don't you share what God has called you and your family to do for the last few decades?

Yeah. Well, it's hard for me to believe that people haven't heard about me, but uh but for those that haven't, uh yeah, I'm a pastor in Belfast, Maine. 20 years ago, I uh responded to an invitation to accept Christ as my Lord. And 15 of those years I've been a lead pastor of a church somewhere somehow. So um whether it's uh Callus Maine or Belfast Maine and um in those 15 years uh the last 10 of those years uh I've taken nine trips to Israel. So part of my DNA of a Christian has been a awareness of the modern state of Israel. It's been baked into me from those early days 20 years ago and all the way through. So, um, I can say with that in the topic that we have on the table this morning, that, um, in those 20 years that I've been a Christian, that I've been a student of the Bible, again, I've taught I mean, I've taught through the whole Bible and then some, um, in those 20 years, um, I have always seen a racism and a xenophobia toward the nation of Israel, but I've never seen it take root and actually be as effective as it is currently right now in 2026. And you was I mean this is something that you and I over dinner last night we were talking about this almost prophetically a year ago. I mean every springtime nearly 2,000 men Calvary Chapel pastors gather at Philadelphia Calvary Chapel uh of Philadelphia and there's the East Coast Pastors Conference and it was last May of 2025 that a speaker one of the 10 gentlemen who opened the word and taught during those three days of a conference was Joel Rosenberg. And Joel Rosenberg behold Israel. He's got a nationally known uh very influential ministry, a man who is born in and lives in Israel, but obviously has come to faith in Jesus Christ. And one of the things you remember, Greg?

Oh, yeah. He said last May that the greatest enemy to the nation of Israel, it is not Hamas. And of course, that was just a year plus after what took place on October 7th, 2023. He said the greatest Israel to threat to Israel is not Hezbollah. And it's not even the state behind it, Iran. He said a year ago to 2,000 pastors, "The greatest threat to the nation state of Israel is losing favor with the Evangelical Church of America."

And and I remember we were like, "That's a little left field." I mean, thanks for sharing that, but we we never would have assumed. We never could have guessed that within 6 months from that statement, we're now seeing this rise of a turning whether theologically, culturally, politically, uh those who we find so much in common with. I mean, we're talking about born again believers. We're talking about Bible scholars, Bible teachers, church folk who are suddenly questioning Israel.

Uh and so, this is what we're talking about today. This is like what does the scriptures have to say? And I think one of the things that we want to do is we have to identify the opposition. I may mention at the beginning that there are people who are getting flooded with 30 second or 60-cond or five minute reels and a lot of opposition. We have big names Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens who are really speaking out against uh you know I think it was Tucker Carlson who said that there's the the mind virus of Christian Zionism.

That's a strange statement. That's crazy. Yeah. So we want to identify behind all of that where is this coming from? And and I think to do that we we have this replacement theology. It's also known as supersessionism. It's covenant theology. And ultimately as you look at this, it states that the covenant God made with the Old Testament people of God was just a vehicle to lead to the New Testament. But once the male carrier of Israel delivered the New Testament church, God no longer has a responsibility with the Old Testament Israel. That's what a replacement theologian would say.

The glaring problem with that is for that to be true that means God his his character is defamed because now God has violated his eternal everlasting covenant with his people. Right?

So we we want to share this uh Greg. We're going to identify the the opposing party. We want to bring some fault into why that doesn't line up with the scriptures. And then we want to talk about more importantly what does the Bible have to say about the modern state of Israel. So share some Greg about the the you know replacement theology, supersessionism, covenant theology, talking about the the error in which they have.

Mhm. Share some things about either the scriptures concerning the everlasting covenant.

Yeah. Well, I mean in and rightfully so in the New Testament, I think they pick up on language. When I say they, it's it's the crowd that you just spoke about the maybe the reformed Presbyterian replacement theology. They really pick up on the fact that there's an adoption that's taken place with people of faith, the church, and how that in our adoption, we have come into this family that God had God's chosen people. And in in a sense, we have become more Jewish than a Jew because by faith, we've accepted the Messiah. Yeah.

And it's language that's there, but that by no means replaces that relationship. I think it's a far stretch and we'll talk all about this. Uh but the way to look at it simply put is like if I'm adopted into a family and and I was actually personally adopted into a family. My adoption did not negate the other children in that family. It's like well now that we've adopted him, we're going to get rid of our other kids. That's not how it works. I've been adopted in. I have this incredible gracious relationship with this father. He's my father. But I don't take the place of the other kids. I just take part in the family. So I think that's like a 30,000 foot view of the whole thing. Um, but I suppose we should go back uh to Genesis 12:17, the the life of Abraham and dig in there. But the first thing I would like to say is it's found in Romans 11 and it's Paul the Apostle talking about um God's relationship with Israel. And the way he starts Romans 11:25 is, "Brethren," speaking to the church, um I would not have you be ignorant concerning this relationship with Israel. And and the the language is very specific that he says that blindness in part has happened to Israel. And that means that blindness has happened, is happening, and what in the future it's going to change, which means there's a full past, present, and future relationship with God's people, the chosen people of Israel that God has a relationship with. And Paul says in Romans 11, I don't want you to be ignorant concerning this. I want you to understand that.

What's interesting about the opening statement, I don't want you to be ignorant, is that Paul says that around five times by my account, could be more, could be a little less. But the point is those issues like spiritual gifts and typologies of Christ, those rapture, rapture of the church, he uses that statement. I don't want you to be ignorant. And what I find it's it's almost um fascinating is that these are areas in the church today. there's the most ignorance, there's the most confusion, there's the most doubt. And here we are talking about Israel in the world that we live in in 2026 that people don't know how to make of it. They're saying things like, "Well, are the people that actually live in Israel, are they really Jews? Those Jews that and they'll they'll quote verses like, well, they claim to be Jews, but they're not, and they're the synagogue of Satan." And and it's wild that there's this naivity to it, and there's a a cluelessness about it. But again in Romans 11:12 25 I mean he says I don't want you ignorant relating to this relationship that God has with his chosen people.

You you and I were talking about that very statement you made about the question that's going forth like is the nation state today in 2026 is are they really Jewish people? Is that really the same Israel that we read about in the Bible? And you know, you and I shared this last night. I the same absurdity it would be to look at a human being who's alive standing there in front of you and saying, "Are you really alive?" Right? It it's bizarre. Like as if God somehow doesn't so govern in the affairs of man. Like God clearly fulfilled his prophecies. And we're going to talk about a lot of these scriptures in just a moment. But the prophecies that God gives us about how he will reather once again the nation state of Israel. You talked about Genesis 12, Genesis 15, Genesis 17. You do a quick search on any of your smartphone devices, you go to any sort of concordance of the scriptures and in the Old Testament alone, there are 14 references of God's everlasting covenant. I mean, almost with great redundancy, God says, "I made an everlasting covenant." And I just want to share one of the most obvious ones when he's first speaking to Abraham. Uh, in Genesis 17, God says, "I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you in their generations. It will be an everlasting covenant to be to you and to your descendants after you. I give to you and your descendants in this generation the land in which you are a stranger. All the land of Canaan. It is again an everlasting possession and I will be their God. So, so God goes out of his way to say to you and your descendants Abraham and also in the very land, the land that is Canaan that is then laid out for us the very boundaries of it. the same land now some 4,000 years later after speaking with Abraham that same place is what God says it is an everlasting covenant and then God talks about in the scriptures in the Old Testament how one day I'm going to bring the people who have been scattered.

Now those who are in the opposing camp those who are a replacement theologian or someone who has the supersessionism belief they will say well um Calvary Chapel folk or sir who stands in in your camp God did fulfill Phil bringing back the captives. That was what happened under Ezra, Nehemiah. But there's some glaring issues with that because when God speaks about these areas of the Bible, and he says it in Amos, he also says it in the book of Ezekiel. And I want to read these ones for you. In Amos chapter 9, God says, "I will bring back the captives of my people Israel. They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them. They will build and plant vineyards, drink, and eat from them. I will plant them in their land. No longer shall the thee be pulled up from the land I've given them, says the Lord. They will be mine. He says in Ezekiel 37:21, "Surely I will take the children of Israel from amongst the nations wherever they have gone. I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land. I will make them one nation in the land. They shall no longer be two and they shall never be divided or spread out again." So there is this reality that God says when I bring them back in from all the nations of the earth, they will never be scattered again. M They were scattered after he brought them back the first time under Roman rule after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. So God says over and over again in the Old Testament, I have a future plan. It is part of my redemptive plan.

Share a little bit about what you you've been seeing, Greg, concerning in the last 6 months there's been this rise. We we said Joel Rosenberg said a year ago we would see this. Certainly it's now happening. Share some of the ethmology of this. You know, we talked about books you've been reading, a lot of research. Share about that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, in going back to what Joel Rosenberg said, a year ago, I mean, not even quite a year ago, I remember hearing that and thinking, you know, first of all, there's a bit of an arrogance like, yeah, we got you, man. The church is good. Like, as a whole, I don't think you got to worry about that. There was there was a statement of arrogance. And I didn't realize how fragile it was. But also, just digging into that and considering that, this is what we want to talk about. The ramifications for taking the mindset that Israel doesn't belong, that those people aren't his people anymore. That is not something new. It's ancient. And the and it almost at the sake of redundancy, we're going to keep coming back to the Bible verses because again in Romans 11, Paul is saying there's no reason essentially to be ignorant because of verses like that. If we go back to the Bible, we don't really have an excuse as to be clueless or confused about Israel's relationship with God or God's relationship to them. Um, and so let me let me visit that verse in Genesis 17 because it is so paramount. I actually have all those verses underlined in my Bible because of the statement an everlasting covenant. And then in promising to Abraham, he's going to give him many children. He's going to give him a great nation and a specific land, the land of Canaan. Anyone that knows um history knows that that was the land of Canaan. It's like he put an X on the map and said, "This is going to be your land, an everlasting covenant that I have with you." Now, had have they been displaced from that land at times? Yes. But the debate is not whether it's their land or not. Um, but just to just for people that might be a little clueless uh on Abraham, this is the father of the nation of Israel. I think just taking a quick moment to realize his story. He's 75 years old in Genesis 12. God comes to him and says, "Hey, Abram was his name. I'm going to make a great nation out of you." This is a man who is barren in in an age where you've got to have kids. It's the most important thing in your life is to have kids, a a genealogy to pass on to. And this man and his wife are barren. He's 75 years old. That the idea is the time has passed for them to have kids. Right? And God says, "No, I'm going to do it." And you would think, you know, God's like, "All right, you got to get to work, Lord. I'm 75. If you're going to do this, now is the time." God waits 25 years before he even starts to have kids. And my point in saying that is that God even in chapter 17 when he revisits him and he says I have made this command this promise to you. It's an everlasting covenant in chapter 17 he's saying my word hasn't changed. I'm going to do something miraculous with you. And that's where it says he changes his name from Abram exalted father to a father of multitudes. How do you take a guy who's waited 25 years he's 100 years old and not just give him a kid or two but you're going to make a great nation out of him. My point is from the very inception of the nation itself, it's always been miraculous. It's always been God's work and it's always been against all odds and that's the whole point. And so, let me just say this. There's a sense that people are like, "Oh, uh, you know, Christians, we they they we have to, you know, support Israel and they need us and all." Listen, they they need God, they don't need us. M I but I will acknowledge that as much as they don't need us because God will take care of them, there is something throughout history that is deeply troubling that Joel Rosenberg put his finger on and that's when the church when Christian people change their perspective on God's chosen people, right? It's it goes dark quick. And so at the risk of sounding like everyone else when they say, "Oh, they're a Nazi or you're acting like a Nazi," there is a real sentiment that goes far before the Nazis, but it shows up in Nazi Germany with a hatred from the Jews that has a history prior to that. So a couple of things um as far as the land itself and the nation of Israel being there and to your point earlier that oh that was all done, you know, with Ezra and Nehemiah, that was when that was fulfilled, being brought back into the land. No, because even Charles Spurgeon, who was a reformed guy um in that camp, in fact, the reformed church highly reverent as they should. Even in 1855, he acknowledged that that land was going to be inhabited by the reblossoming again.

Yeah, I got the quote right here actually if I could. Uh Spurgeon said 1855, I imagine, and this is beautiful. I imagine that you cannot read the Bible without seeing clearly that there is to be an actual restoration of the children of Israel. Judah so long a howling wilderness shall once more blossom like the rose. Right? He he saw in 1855 it would not quite 100 years later they become a nation again. May 14th 1948 undeniably God proved his word to be true. And Jesus told us in in the last supper he said I tell you these things before they come to pass that when they come to pass you may believe. Yeah. The devil has been very effective lately. Some of the things that I'm hearing, including from from from godly folk is well, you know, that you know, the Rothschilds and these wicked people and it was a conspiracy and there was, you know, all sorts of sexual perversion and all these millions of dollars and we really can't assume that all that wickedness was part of God's doing. But you and I looked at the scriptures and didn't God use Pharaoh? Didn't he use Nebuchadnezzar? Didn't he use Cyrus? Hasn't he always had his pre-appointed times laid out and fulfilled using way less than perfect people? Amen. Including Abraham, a way less than perfect person. He was an idoltor on the other side of the of the Calaldes. The Bible tells us. So God governs in the affairs of men. What we have post 1948 is we get to see the fulfillment of scriptures. But the devil right now is being so effective and attacking saying you can't trust that. That's not legitimate. Israel has no place. You used the reference earlier about adoption. I think it's a perfect one. I want to add to that with a with the illustration that God uses about marriage, husband and wife, right? God deals with Israel that way. He'll talk about her as a wife even when she becomes adulteress. He talks to himself as a husband. He talks to the church as the bride. But nonetheless, when you look at the language, I think this is something to to consider. God hasn't, and this is where I believe the replacement theologians fail. God hasn't divorced himself from Israel and then remarried a new bride, the church, right? That would defame his character, right? Instead, Genesis 12, we've made mention, I believe, Genesis 12 and Romans 11, they are talking to one another. Where you have Genesis 12, ultimately God is saying, I love the nations so much that Abraham through you and your people, I'm going to bring hope to even the nations. Amen. But then in Romans 11, he says, "I love Israel so much that nations or gentile church I brought you in. So it would simply just provoke her back to me into a state of uh salvation again." So the two are not to be in opposition. The church in Israel should be, and this goes back to your question, is do we as Christians support the nation of Israel? Well, we do because God does. God's God's word does. He doesn't have this reality where he cuts off one. There's not an old tree and then he's made a new tree. Romans chapter 11 says there's one tree, the olive tree. We've been grafted into her. We've been grafted into the commonwealth.

So, this is where a lot of the confusion happens. Can you do a little of the tracing? You made mention of of a book that you've been reading and and you talked to us some of the tracing of this hatred.

Share some about that.

greater covenant. But it doesn't negate the fact that even as all this has been open and manifest to us, there is still a seven-year period of time known as Jacob's trouble that is upon the horizon. There is still the dispensation of a 1,000-year millennial reign. So to say that we are dispensationalists, we didn't come up with that term because Darby or Scofield told us it.

Well, Paul the Apostle uses the term. And in the book of Ephesians, he says in Ephesians chapter 2, you gentile church, you were once without hope. You were afar off. You were not part of the commonwealth of Israel.

Yeah.

But you have now been brought into the commonwealth of Israel. So again, the same way a husband and a wife come together, they do become one man. But at the same time, it's not like gender is just suddenly erased. You still have the husband. You still have the wife. You have responsibility. The same way that you have the, the institution of Israel, which it is one of God's institutions. You do have the institution of God's holy church. It is God's. They are together on the same playing field now, part of God's covenant promise.

But they're also distinct. That God has a distinction between the two, and I think that is where the replacement theologian falls short. Yeah. Whereas if God has divorced himself, or he's cut off that old tree, he's got a new wife, or he planted a new tree, that defames the character of God.

Yeah.

So share some more about what you're, you're hearing about the criticism.

I, I hate to speak on behalf of, like, let's say, reformed theology because I know it's annoying when they do that for us. Like, "Hey, let me tell you what they believe." But, uh, you know, from their own words, and I think, uh, speaking to enough people in the reformed camp, there's this idea that there's the worry that God isn't sovereign if, if we believe this idea that God is changing. Now, we're not claiming that God changes, but the word, the very word dispensation, it's the idea of manifold, like you said, or another translation very close to is a house order. The way that he operates in the house is different based on different periods. For example, like the most obvious, the first one is the dispensation of innocence. We call it the first one that before sin entered the world, God's relationship with man was different than it is, let's just say, even now, just generically. So, you can't argue that God has acted differently throughout humanity. But I think in certain theological circles, there's this fear that we're implying that God changes. That's right. And, and there is no fear for that. For me, God is completely sovereign in that. God saw all that long before it ever happened and had a plan for it before it ever happened. So he is completely sovereign. He's completely in control. But things that have gone on throughout, and in his own prerogative, his own agenda, which means he's sovereign. He has changed his, his working and dealings with humanity and nations, for that matter, in his own way. So it doesn't take away from God's sovereignty at all. To me, it only magnifies it that he is in control. Uh, but with dispensationalism, which we are, we're dispensationalists, we would be called, we just believe that God works differently. Which part of at the core of what we're talking about, what's relevant for our topic this morning is that we, as Bible-believing Protestant pastors, believe that God's relationship with Israel is separate and distinct from that of the church.

Yes.

We don't see it as an amalgamation in the f, like that's worked out. It's that we've been grafted in and adopted, as it were. But that go, God, God is very clear through books, the book of Romans and so on, that God has had a relationship with Israel that is different now, but is going to be different again in the future. And, and that's maybe a good way to start steering this is we're looking to the future for them again, because right now.

Yes.

Are most, uh, Jews atheists or godless or anti-Christian, maybe?

Sure. Yeah.

But that's why he says there's a blindness on them right now. I've done it. I have shared my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ with so many Jewish people. And it's frustrating when you see, like, how do you not get it? I, I remember walking through Isaiah 53 on an airplane going to Israel with a Jewish man.

Yeah.

And he's like, "You know the scriptures better than I do, man."

You remember John MacArthur and Ben Shapiro sat down, John MacArthur, and sat there and walked him through Isaiah 53. And you're thinking, certainly if there's ever a guy to walk Ben Shapiro to the Lord, John MacArthur is it.

Yeah.

Same thing. Blindness in part. And so there, there is a reality where God, in his dispensational unfolding, and that's what Romans chapter 11 says, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, there will be a turning back again. The criticism is, "Oh, so you're saying all Israel will be saved? That you don't, you no longer have to accept Christ as the Messiah?" Paul says clearly in Romans chapter 11, "If they do not continue in unbelief, they shall be saved." So that leads to, and let's talk about this, the chronology of the book of Revelation. Oh, huge. The seven-year, uh, tribulation and what is given to us. Share about how even the chronology of the book of Revelation lends to this dispensational belief system.

You're getting me so excited, man. I'm going to have to leave. This is awesome. But that, that's just it. The, the future for Israel is, is the, so, so important to understand. If you think about the book of Revelation and what it's saying, and, and we're literal interpreters of that book,

Um, to an extent. Obviously, there's a lot of allegory in there in a sense, but we work through that and understand it as it's literally given to us and the imagery that's given to us. If you think about the nation of Israel as it relates to the book of Revelation and the book of Romans, it is the only nation on earth currently right now that there is still yet a future promise of revival going, like it is on the calendar. God says this nation will have a massive. No, no other nation has that. The great awakening was not on the calendar for you and I to read. So that being said, let's just think of these are, these are just pulling them out, and this is how people I think would recognize some of the language of what we're talking about that makes it every man's language. You've so many people have heard of the 144,000.

And they, you know, Jehovah's Witness believe that they're going to be the 144,000. There's so many different groups and takes on what that means. If you read that in the book of Revelation, it is specific. That is 144,000 male virgin Jews,

From the tribes, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel. Right? And there's so many minutia that we could get into. Well, the, the tribe of Dan isn't mentioned, and but that's irrelevant. I mean, that's something that we could easily speak to. Um, but the point is that out of the 12 tribes, each one of them will yield 12,000 male virgin Jews that are evangelists,

And they're just bringing, uh, a level of evangelism to the nation of Israel. So, you think about the effect of Billy Graham across the world.

Take that 144,000 times.

That is unbelievable to think about.

Yeah. And then that those 144,000s cannot be touched. There's a whole miraculous thing with them. There's two witnesses that show up in chapter 11, I believe.

Um, and the miracles and the things they do are so reminiscent of Moses and Elijah that most Bible scholars agree that's probably Moses and Elijah resurrected to come back and be the witness of the law and prophets to Israel in the latter days.

By the way, which is in that land that is still in Israel today. Yeah. So in other words, the, the claim that people are saying is really here in 2026 is Netanyahu, who's the prime minister of, is that really, are they Jews? Is it really God's people? Well, yeah. What Revelation 11 talks about is there will be a third temple. It will be built. It will be in the city of spiritual Sodom, which is the geographic city of Jerusalem. This will be the place where all this takes place. And we cannot go to, let's say, a preterist, or pastism is what you know, the Latin word pred comes from. There are those who try and say, "No, the book of Revelation is all past. It was over the last 2,000 years, these things have come to fruition." You have to do a lot of, like you said, torturing or gymnastics with the text to not realize that the unveiling, the unfolding, the apocalypsis of the book of the Revelation is saying this is what is to come in the future. And in chapters 1, two, and chapters three of the book of Revelation, we have the word church mentioned often, over,

Over and over and over again. At the conclusion of that seventh letter, the church of Laodicea, we then have chapter 4 open up where a door opened up in heaven, a loud trumpet, and a call of John the Apostle, the revelator. Now, the rest of that book, he has this, uh, mezzanine view. He's now looking down. We believe it is, it is a picture of the church being called up. The church is not mentioned again.

Nope.

All the way through those seven-year tribulations, through the seals, through the trumpets, through the, the bowl judgments, not mentioned again until we have her in Revelation 19, the bride, the marriage supper of the lamb. So, you have even just the chronology that during that seven-year period of time known as Jacob's trouble.

Amen.

The church is missing. But what you're saying, God is faithful to have a remnant, and that remnant will be the 144,000 male virgin Jews from 12 tribes.

Continue.

Yeah. But that's, that's just something that is so core to the book of Revelation. It is the unveiling of Jesus Christ, which goes right back to his relationship with Israel and how there is a blindness in part now,

But that he is going to work with them again in the future. That, and it even uses the word, the fullness of the Gentiles, which means an era comes to an end, whether people like it or not. Chapters 2 and 3, an era comes to an end. The church is mass evacuated, and then the man of perdition, according to first Thessalonians,

Yes.

Comes in and introduces himself to the world. That in the absence of the church, which is the salt and light, the preserving factor of this world, morally and otherwise, once we are gone, the world is open to all manner of deception, and then in that time frame, God refocuses his, his, uh, focus on Israel and works with them in a profound way, and a massive revival happens within the nation of Israel.

What's your encouragement? So you, we have, uh, Bible-believing students of the Bible who are going to tune into this. We have those who maybe aren't born again, but they're very aware of the controversy with Israel. There's a war that's happening right now. We have, as an American nation, sided with our long-standing little sister ally, Israel, fighting against the nation state terror of Iran. So, there's a lot happening. There's a lot of, uh, emotion surrounding this. Someone that tunes in and watches this podcast, is is your encouragement to go to the scripture?

To see what does God have to say? I mean, how can you, are there, are there books that you would recommend for people to be well-researched in?

I, I think the most important book is the Bible. You know, do I love resources? And a book that I mentioned earlier, or Erwin Lutzer's stuff. In fact, I have a quote from him I'll share that goes along with this.

Any of his books, really. Hitler's Cross.

Um, another one is Seven Lessons Learned from Nazi Germany.

When a Nation Forgets God.

When a Nation Forgets God. And that was the subtitle. That's right. Just, there's so many great resources out there, but at the end of the day, to actually know our Bibles and to not be persuaded by a video, you know, or someone online is, I mean, it's certainly good to have someone challenge us and get us to investigate, but we actually have to do the research.

Um, and this is an Erwin Lutzer quote, and it says, "The purpose of propaganda, we'll call it the media today. The purpose of media is to so shape people's view of reality that even when confronted with a mountain of evidence, they will not change their minds." And that's what concerns me for the average person is they are so caught up in the flow going downstream of these ideas, these little catchphrases. And, and again, I don't mean to beat the Hitler drum, but even Hitler knew if you can create a buzzword or a catchphrase, people can lock on to that. It's way more effective than even what we're doing. We're, we're, we're exuding a text. We're talking about Bible verses. People sort of glaze over. But if you can give them a word or a sentence, "Do the Jews really belong there?" People can beat that drum. And I just warn every, uh, Bible-believing Christian out there that you're not beating some secular drum. You're not beating a drum of propaganda, but we beat the drum of the scripture, you know. So our relationship to Israel and our support of Israel is not from John Darby or anyone else. Scofield. In fact, I would have never made those connections in my life. I would have never thought to myself, "I got to be faithful to John Darby." I, someone had to introduce that concept to me, right? So I'm not sitting there heralding these men for my belief. It's the Bible. The scriptures are so clear.

You know, with some references that are are helpful. I know Lee Brainer wrote a book called, uh, Early Evidence of Pre-Tribulation Rapture in the Church, quoting some of the church fathers. They believed in this eschatology.

I think Michael Vlock has done an incredible job. You can look at his books on, "Has the Church Replaced Israel?" Of course, no. He believes in the dispensational teaching of the Bible. But I, I think you make a valid point where we, we live in an era right now where people get their news off media. They get their theology off social media. A Tucker Carlson, a Candace Owens, or anyone with even a lesser pedigree shouldn't be someone that we're getting our theology from. The, the, I think the era that we're living in is prepping. And as we look at the book of Revelation, the, the Bible tells us in the last days, there's going to be such a mass deception campaign that goes upon the world.

And there's going to be even this unifying of the world. Like in Revelation 11, how can the whole world be watching these two witnesses? Well, that's because we have the era where 20, 30, 40 years ago, you wouldn't even believe it.

That's right.

And so, we're seeing these things happen. Okay. The, you know, we, we have in Revelation 11 also this, this mark that is going to be taken. We, we see how even the, the, the image is going to be given life. Now, we're talking about AI and super AI. And so, we're seeing these things come on the horizon that God's word has always promised. But at the same time, for Christians, we have to be careful that we're not dependent on all of these sources and and tools.

Yeah.

When God has always says, "Be a Berean."

Yeah.

"Do not be easily deceived." And I, and I think you make a good point that a lot of what is happening right now is there has been a little cherry-picking from here of the Bible. A, you know, I, I was a little heartbroken to see,

Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson. I didn't think, uh, Ted Cruz did a wonderful job defending.

But he's not a theologian.

But that's my whole point. He's a politician.

That's not the gentleman that should be giving us theology, right? We, we should be going to churches where the Bible is being opened and taught. And, and I think, you know, when the devil is fighting against a certain area of God's design, whether it's gender, whether it's marriage, whether it's Israel, it almost validates how important it is to God and the importance of his redemptive plan.

Yeah. And so what Joel Rosenberg said to you and I, and nearly 2,000 pastors a year ago, it was like the spirit of prophecy letting us know that we have to be on guard for the attack that is going to be coming into the church and having people question God's, uh, plan for the current state and the future state of Israel.

Yeah.

What else, Greg, do you want, do you want to share?

Well, I wanted to go circle back to your thing about Tucker Carlson and, and again, we've always had so much respect for him up until recently, and, and he is a bit crazy, right? I mean, his laugh is wild, but how insincere to take a guy like Ted Cruz and not, he, you know, yeah, did he bring up a few verses like in Genesis 12, "We bless those that bless Israel." That's a true principle. I believe in that.

But you're going to get a politician on to speak on biblical matters.

Invite the pastor.

Yeah. Has a, has a, like, let's go, like Lee Strobel. Lee Strobel has doubts about Christianity. So he goes to the scholars of the day. Don't pick a random politician who doesn't necessarily know much about Israel or have a great stance or or catch him off guard and then laugh yourself to sleep at night because you you disproved Christians relationship with Israel is like, is is fundamentally wrong. That, that's so insincere to me. If you actually cared about a real position, get somebody on there that could actually defend the position or talk about it in an intelligent way, not just right off. And that's the propaganda piece. Look, all Christians are just dumb and naive and they just support Israel because they're stupid and they believe a promise made 4,000 years ago.

Um, so that's detrimental. And another thing to go with this is I, I strongly encourage individuals, churchgoing folk, go to Israel at least one time in your life. And I say that as someone that went, is going for that trip of a lifetime. And I've gone nine times. In October, hopefully, it'll be 10. And the point is, there are people with their theological belief that, well, if I go to Israel, it's like I'm supporting the modern state. Heavens, man. Think about it. It's the land of the Bible. You go there for the history. And when you go there, you're confronted with the facts and the reality, not a click on YouTube. You actually see it. And you see the archaeological spade at work, and, and the history, and how it all connects, and the promises of God. And if you want to continue to be naive and believe Tucker Carlson and all these other people, that's fine. But if you want to actually get educated, there's the Bible. There's books you can read. There's resources. You can go to Israel. And, and in doing any of those things, like Charles Spurgeon said in 1855, unbiased, completely unplugged from today, he said, "It is so abundantly clear."

Yes.

Through the scriptures.

Greg, you and I were in Israel together in 2022. It was my first trip.

Unbelievable.

And one of the things that really stood out to me was my first visit, my only visit to the Holocaust Museum.

And when you and I walk in there, there's a big giant crest and it says throughout the display, um, "Never again," I believe. Is that what the, the mantra is?

I believe you're right. Yeah.

Let's circle back to something a little bit more on the home soil of America. We talked about 9/11. What was, what was the, there was a similar mantra that came out. "Never forget."

We'll never forget.

Never. What's happened in 20 plus years since 9/11?

Here's the thing, man. I was just there last weekend with my kids because we're going to Philadelphia and I'm like, I'm going to stop with my kids at the 9/11 memorial and just bring them around. I showed them, uh, little facts and statues and things that, like, double-check people don't even know about. Just introducing them to things. And, and you know, it honestly, it troubled my teenager and struggled sleeping. And I said, "Look, this is like something that really happened 20 years ago. This happened 20 years ago and it's causing you to lose sleep. It was something 20 years ago." And for us to say, "We'll never forget, we'll never forget." 20 years later, there is a Muslim governor in New York City and, and would love, I'm sorry, mayor. Would love to eradicate so much of that too. I think we could get to a point realistically in, in short order, where we praise what happened.

Yeah.

And think it a good thing.

Yeah. The one thing we can learn from human history is humans don't learn from history, right? That ultimately is what it is. So, you know, there's this knee-jerk reaction like, "Oh, are you really pastor trying to like bring up Nazi Germany and trying to say that we're heading in that direction?" Well, let's just play the tape through. That, that, that's the point. The devil is crafty.

Yeah. And you have to acknowledge whether you're looking at Pharaoh's edict that all Hebrew male children must die. Whether you look at Haman's edict and his conspiracy that all the Jews in Esther's day must die. Whether you look at Herod, who made the edict that we're going to kill all the children born in Bethlehem. Okay, that is over time played out time and time again. It hasn't, the devil hasn't just suddenly turned it off. The closer we get to God's coming back, he's ramping it up. And it is an amazing thing if you can just, someone who's watching this, take a 30,000-foot view of human history.

The devil is the one behind any hatred, specifically the hatred of God's chosen people.

Yeah.

And so anti-Semitism, it is not man's invention. It is Satan's invention.

Amen.

And it does creep in and it does manifest itself. And there should be a healthy reverence for any man or woman to say, "Have I taken even an inch of a step in that direction?"

Mmm. And that's what, that's ultimately what you and me as pastors, we're trying to encourage people, have your eyes open to what is happening. There is an attack right now on Israel, and it's, and there's these word plays like, "Well, the political Israel of today is not the biblical Israel." Someone show me in the scripture where you can divide that.

Yeah.

As if God wasn't behind May 14th, 1948.

Supernatural miracle.

Supernaturally. And you know what Mark Twain made a quote about that?

Yeah. He, he was like, "Something about, you know, prove God exists, I can do it in one word. Israel."

Israel.

Israel. Yeah. And they're back in the land.

Back in the land. And again, I made mention of Amos 9, Ezekiel chapter 37. These chapters where God specifically and with detail says, "I will gather my people who have been scattered to the corners of the earth." Now, that didn't happen in Babylon. They went to one nation.

That's right.

So you can't say it was Ezra and Nehemiah under Zerubbabel's leadership. No. What happened is God says, "I will scatter my people," which happened at 70 AD for nearly 1900 years. He goes, "But I will bring them back into the land again. They will no longer be two nations. There'll be 12 tribes into one. They'll never be scattered again."

One of the things I've heard a criticism against Ezekiel 37 and our belief is in that same portion, God says, "And they will have one shepherd, David," which obviously is a messianic promise. And someone says, "Well, okay, uh, Travis, you're a dispensationalist. How do you say that right now in 2026 that the nation of Israel is under one shepherd, David?" You're right. But the problem is we can't put our time on God's timetable.

Right.

God, in the whole point of the seven-year tribulation time of Jacob's trouble, and you made mention of this massive revival that will take place. God has brought them back into the land, and he is very soon going to be the shepherd over them. There's going to be a revival. He comes back at the end of Revelation, and he sets up his kingdom, and we're there with him, and the, the 12 apostles and the tribes that are named of the city, and we will reign for a thousand years. So we have no problem looking at those scriptures and realizing that Ezekiel 37, Ezekiel 36, and 7 together, those two chapters were absolutely fulfilled May 14th, 1948.

Greg, anything else you want to impart before we end this episode together that you want to share as a source of encouragement or instruction?

Well, I just, just listening to you just a moment ago and how fluid you just said all that. You, like if you made that up, that's that would be impressive. But you didn't. You just quoted the Bible and the relationship that God has had. We, we've tried to do this in this episode is is Genesis all the way through the systematic flow that we didn't make up. We're just reading and coming from the scriptures that vantage point. I think that's so, so key. And that what is the biggest concern that I have is that people would be led astray and deceived by any other thing. They would be caught off guard and they wouldn't just actually go to the Bible for the information that we're talking about here as it relates to Israel.

You, you may mention that Paul says five different times in the New Testament, "Brethren, I'd have you not be ignorant." And isn't it interesting in those areas, including the gifts of the spirit? Think about the great division and controversy there has been for 2,000 years on the gifts of the spirit.

Uh, there is been the truth of the First Thessalonians chapter 4, "Brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery." And he talks about that one day, you know, we'll be awoken and caught, caught up. Okay. Likewise, there's been a massive,

Um, campaign against the teaching of the rapture. Oh, it's man-made. It's not a, it's not a truth. Well, the devil would like us to think that, right?

But Paul says, "I don't want to be ignorant about this." And, and so likewise, as we're dealing with the nation of Israel in Romans chapter 11, "Brethren, I'd have you not be ignorant about God's dealing." He says, as he opens out that 11th chapter, Paul says rhetorically, "Has God cast away his people?"

God forbid.

God forbid. Certainly not. And so I, I, I believe what you and I have been saying, and what we want the listeners to know.

Go to the scripture. Be a Berean. What does God's word have to say about Israel? And might we be in tune to right now the attack that is happening and all the talking points? It almost validates that the devil right now would have you to think that God doesn't care about the nation state of Israel.

Pastor Greg Houston, thank you for being here.

Thank you, brother.

You're welcome. Another episode here at the Pastor's Office Podcast. If you would subscribe to our channel, we want to see the biblical truth go out into the social media. We want to see the truth of Christ to be glorified, and that people would be educated. Grace and peace to you.

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Ep. 7 - ISRAEL | The Pastor's Office (w/ Guest Pastor Greg Huston)

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