Dr Joanna Howe on Pro-Life Laws, Immigration & The Future of Australia

Hi guys, welcome back to Two Worlds podcast. On today's episode, we have James and Joanna How. Now, for the first 25 minutes, we talk about Joanna's prolife bill that she's getting through parliament in South Australia. And after that, we had a healthy debate about immigration and what truly it means to be Australian.

Now, this debate did get pretty heavy. It did get a bit nasty, but at the end of the day, we had enough respect for each other to sit there, debate, sometimes listen, sometimes get angry, but at the end of it, we all seem to come together because at the end of the day, if we can't have debates like this, then who are we really? What's your thoughts? And there we go. I'm at like, I think I'm at 102 now episodes.

>> Ah, that's good. They say if you survive after 100, you are more likely to keep going. I think 98% of people could their 25th episode or something.

>> Yeah, man. I'm going to keep forgetting that.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Someone said something, I think it was who is that guy? Chris, uh, Chris Williamson. Chris Williams. Maybe him.

>> Yeah, I know the guy.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He said something like, uh,

>> 85% of podcasts don't get past episode 30.

>> Mhm. So,

>> but yeah, I had, um,

>> anyway, my last podcast has seemed to kick up a bit of a stink with Australia. Everyone seems to bloody hate me. Well, no, they don't hate me. They either, I mean, I've sold a lot of t-shirts, but

Joanna and James, welcome to Two Worlds Club podcast. How you guys going?

>> Good, mate. Thanks for having us.

>> You're welcome. You're welcome. Now, we're going to get to stuff after about, um, what we want Australia to be, what we want Australia potentially look like. Does that matter? And the basis of the argument will probably not the argument. Jesus, what are you thinking you guys are coming in to argue? The basis of the debate would be, um, you know, what truly is an Australian. How you guys see it, how I see it, and we'll go from there. But first, there's more important stuff to get to, which is the bill that you're going to push through parliament. And now that One Nation has got the balance of power, looks like this is going to happen. So, Joanna.

>> Yeah, thanks so much for having me back, Sam. And I remember you said that if I was doing something, I could come back and we could talk about it, which is I'm grateful for. Um, so, we have, we have legislation in the parliament at the moment that seeks to ban abortion in the third trimester, so 25 weeks upward. So, at the moment, it's legal up until birth for any reason in South Australia, except for sex selection. Uh, what we're seeking to do is now ban abortion after 25 weeks, except if it's necessary to save the life of the mother. Now, we've got that in there just as a, as something so that people can see that, um, the mother's life is valued and prioritized. But the reality is, in a late-term abortion, it's never necessary to save the life of the mother. Um, the mother, uh, if the mother's got pre-eclampsia or some kind of, um, risk to her life, what they will do is, uh, bring that baby out alive via an emergency cesarean. So, they won't waste time on a time-consuming late-term abortion. They'll just get that baby out alive through a C-section in less than an hour.

Now, the process for a late-term abortion, do you know what it is, Sam?

>> Yeah, you explained it to me last time, and it, uh, it ripped my heart away.

>> Yeah. So, I think last time I talked to you about actually a dilation and evacuation, which is when they wrench the arms and legs off a child.

>> They literally like rip them out.

>> But, but, but after 22 weeks, the process in South Australia is different. That, that's actually sort of a, a second-trimester abortion method. The third-trimester abortion method is, you've literally got a psychopath looking at a baby on an ultrasound, and they have to look at the ultrasound because this next bit has to be very precise. So, they're looking at a baby on an ultrasound. The mom's under anesthetic, she can't feel this. Um, but they're locating the left ventricle of the baby's heart. So, they're looking at a baby that's sucking its thumb, playing in the womb, just hiccuping, all the things that babies do in the womb. And, and, and then they locate the left ventricle of the baby's heart. They fill a needle up, a 20-gauge needle, with potassium chloride, which is a poisonous substance. They use it on death row to kill rapists and murderers. Um, and here they fill that needle up with, it's approximately 10 milliliters of potassium chloride, KCL, and inject that into the left ventricle of the baby's heart. The baby goes from being alive to suddenly being tortured to death. They go through a, it's intended to induce a cardiac arrest. It causes excruciating pain. And we know that because sometimes prisoners on death row have not been sedated at first. And so they've actually lived to tell the tale, the tale of how horrifying this is. Um, and, and so they now do get properly sedated. This doesn't happen for babies in South Australia. And it happened to 105 babies older than 23 weeks and up until birth since abortion up to birth was introduced and enacted in July 2022. So, they inject the baby's heart with poison. If it doesn't kill them shortly thereafter, they'll see that on the ultrasound, and they will do a second injection. So, they're just torturing this child to death, who eventually dies in the womb.

Now, how do they get that dead baby out? Well, they give the mom labor-inducing drugs, and she goes through the process of labor just like your wife did, just like I've done five times. And she delivers that baby intentionally stillborn. So, she delivers, like she has the contractions, she has the pushing, um, and, and, and she delivers a, a dead baby who, under South Australian law, can just get placed in a medical waste bin at 30 weeks, 35 weeks.

>> So, she's still going through the same process.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So,

>> just, uh, just giving birth to a dead baby.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so, we're saying, ban this barbaric procedure. It has no place in our modern healthcare system. It's not pro-women. Actually, the data shows that women are often very traumatized and scarred by this. But, but evidently, it kills a baby that would be alive today because they're viable, they're healthy. 75% of late-term abortions kill healthy babies in South Australia. So, this is a really exciting new bill, and Sarah's introduced it straight away. So, people are still doing their maiden speeches, and she's put that bill forward because there isn't any time to lose because babies are dying in this state right up until birth. This is the first attempt now in this term of parliament to try and take that back.

>> What did you say? 100 over the last year?

>> 105 in the last two and a half, in the last two and a half years. So, it's one every couple of weeks. That's a late-term abortion, but it's actually 5,000 abortions a year in South Australia. So,

>> it's, it's a lot, you know.

>> Mhm.

>> Now, uh, you had a very different idea on abortion when you were younger.

>> Yeah.

>> And the man to my right, your left, changed that.

>> Talk me through that.

>> Yeah. Well, I, um, I liked him. I had a bit of a crush on him at the time. Um, but he didn't know that. And we would argue about a lot of things because I was a leftist, uh, arch-feminist. We would have gotten great, Sam, back when I was 20. And so, we would argue about a lot of these things, and then the topic of abortion came up. Now, I've told the story a lot, but why don't you say what it was like from your perspective?

>> Oh, I mean, you were just like this, like, just rapidly woke Indian chick that I happened to sort of, uh, happened to encounter. And we got into an argument about women in sport, and you were trying to tell me that it was like disgusting prejudice that women's sport didn't do as well as men's sport. And I remember just thinking, like, what the [ __ ] are you talking about? Like, the reason why women's sport doesn't do as well is because they're not as good at it. Like, people watch sport where they watch men in sport because men are the pinnacle of excellence in whatever sport you happen to be watching, you know? So, we kind of had that debate. Um, and I sort of just said, look, I, I don't care if you like it or not, like men's sport is always going to do well,

>> because people want to watch, you know, the, the absolute peak of ability in any given kind of physical field.

>> And I found those arguments really annoying. Um, like, he just thought he was better than me because he was a man. But then I think when you look into it and then you point out the things like Serena Williams plays the best, you know, the 200th best male player in the world, and she, she loses six-love, six-love. And so, I think there is clearly, um, in evidence, a difference between women's performance in the same sport as men's, and people prefer, and they pay to watch the men's sport.

>> Well, I would also also just suggest as well, you just got to look at the numbers and where the money flows to.

>> People speak with their viewership.

>> Sure. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't want to be rude. Like, I'm not saying that women's sport doesn't matter, but it's just, it's really just not even about that. Um, it's not that I thought I was better than you. It's also just that you, like, had a, you were defending a stupid ideology. So, like, you know, I like, you know, credit where it's due. Like, it must have been rough being you, you know.

>> Um, so let's be honest. So, and then we got onto abortion, and you started saying, oh, women have a right to, you know, have an abortion. And I think I just said, "Well, like, what even is an abortion?" And you were like, it was almost like you're like, "I've never really thought about it before."

>> Well, because I hadn't. Because when you're brainwashed by feminism, you, you just swallow the party line. You don't necessarily, you, you, you don't think through all these things. You're just told what to think. You're told what to think. I was an economics law student that's in a university when we met, you know.

>> Well, that happens with a lot of us, right? With society, with everything. Like, you get brainwashed soldiers,

>> you get brainwashed parliament members, you get brainwashed leftists,

>> get brainwashed people from the right.

>> Yeah, 100%.

>> Happens with everyone.

>> Yeah, it does. And you can't, you can't help it to some degree because, like, you have to just learn some stuff in life. There's too much information to do your own investigation about everything. But ultimately, I do think it's incumbent upon people to, when they're presented with the evidence on, on an issue, to have the moral courage to actually grapple with it and find out where the truth is and to be willing to go with the truth because, um,

>> I think, like, you can't blame people for being brainwashed, but you can blame people for deciding to stay brainwashed, you know. Um, and to your credit, like,

>> after I pointed out to you, like, well, okay, so it's a baby after it gets born. What is it, five minutes before it gets born?

>> And you had absolutely no answer for it. Um, Joe went, she was working for Bill Shorten at the time, who used to be the Labor leader. Um, but he was the head of the Australian Workers Union. Um, and he'd hand-headhunted Joe, um, to work for him two days a week because, uh, he said, "I've never met anyone who is more hated by Labor Left than than you." And I asked around and, um,

>> cuz he was Labor Right.

>> He was Labor Right.

>> These factions, I don't get this stuff.

>> Yeah. No, neither do I. But anyway, um, and, and so she snuck into her office and shut the door and just, and just Googled aborted fetuses, and, um, some academic articles came up which had some photographs of aborted babies.

>> And, um, she could see that these were little people who had just been sliced to pieces, um, and ripped apart.

>> It genuinely, uh, genuinely affected me. Our conversation when we sat down. I remember sitting there, like, changing the diaper with my baby like an hour later, and I was like,

>> "Yeah,

>> what the [ __ ] is going on here?" I genuinely, like, I was genuinely sitting there. I remember, um, it was like one of the only times I got teary on a podcast. I genuinely sat there and I was listening to this. I'm like, "This is too much.

>> This is too much.

>> We're really doing this to babies,

>> and everyone's just going about their normal life."

>> It genuinely tore me up, and it's horrible. And the only reason it still happens is because people don't talk about it, and the left tries to silence you if you, if you even raise it. Um, but it's, it's insane, man. Like, even, even last night, we were just watching this movie, Knocked Up, and, um,

>> and this is the old one from years ago.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Same one. We've seen it before, but somehow we just found ourselves watching it again. And there's the birth scene, and I've, like, for each one, like, each time we have had a baby, and that baby comes out and starts crying, it just, like, it makes me teary just because I'm like, just the miracle of life. You just see,

>> holy [ __ ], there's like a person here on the scene. And, um, and I even had that experience just watching this movie last night.

>> And I'm just thinking, man, that baby, it's the same baby that was in there five minutes ago.

>> It's no different. It's the same baby. Sure, it can't cry because its lungs are full of fluid, but it's, it's the same baby. It's capable of having all of the same experiences. It's capable of having the same kind of sensations of pain, same sort of, like, comfort at the sound of its mother's voice. Same child, same human being. And, like, just the thought of killing that baby, um, it's just, it's just murder, like any other form of murder. And like, we just can't tolerate it in a, in a sane and civilized society. It just,

>> it's just disgusting. So,

>> yeah, long story short,

>> that's, uh,

>> Yeah. So, I had to admit to him a couple of, maybe a fortnight later, that I'd changed my mind and that he was right and I was wrong.

>> It's good though. It shows you're, uh, you're adaptable.

>> Yeah. And she's just had to do that again and again.

>> That's not true. He's had to.

>> No, it's gone the other way pretty much ever since.

>> No, it hasn't. But we, we've just, I guess, yeah. We fell in love with.

>> On every personal argument, it's had to go the other way.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But I was a brainwashed leftist, and I've had to, um, I, I guess I've had to unpack all of the things I believed and realize which ones I still believe and which ones I still don't.

>> Um, and, and that's a journey that I would encourage other people to go on as well. And if you, you know, if you are in South Australia, or even if you're not, I encourage you to fly in for our rally on June 17th outside the South Australian Parliament because that's when we will be rallying and protesting for this bill. And I do think for these babies after 25 weeks, we're up against it. All of the peak medical bodies are against us, you know, all of the media establishment, you know, the Labor and the Greens, like, it's, some of the Liberal Party even. And so, you're really up against it. But if we, if we pass this bill, that'll be the first, uh, pro-life bill to pass the House of Parliament in Australian history. Uh, but it'll also be the first socially conservative bill to have passed, um, the South Australian Parliament in the House of History, in history. Though, it's, it's big, and we do need, like, the left is so good at turning up for evil, and our side, we're just useless a lot of the time, like,

>> we're all busy working.

>> Yeah, but this is, this is after work. It's 5:30 p.m. in the city, and so,

>> well, most people have kids. Conservative,

>> family, bring your kids. We bring our kids. Like, there's, sorry, Sam. There's not an excuse you can throw to me other than if you're in labor. Sorry.

>> If you're in labor or you're dead, you don't get to come. But you don't have to come. You got to leave past. But everybody else, like, these babies have no voice other than us. And so, if we don't turn up, then the politicians just know we don't care.

>> Yep. Okay. So, when is it again?

>> 17th of June. Tuesday, 5:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. outside the SA Parliament in the City, North Terrace. Um, yeah, really hope you can come. I hope other people can come too. Um, it is, it is really important. Uh, we bring our, we've got a six-year-old, and, but we've been bringing the kids to these things since they were like, you know, just out of the womb, like three, you know, a couple of months old, three years old, four years old. They have to know what they're up against in, in this society, in this culture. I think it's important to raise them educated and awake.

>> Yeah, definitely. Because the other side are doing it as well.

>> Yeah.

>> But the thing with the other side is they got, uh, they seem to have kindergarten schools and universities to do that as well.

>> That's why you asked me on the way in, are you going to homeschool?

>> Yeah.

>> Is, did you ask me that question because you know the?

>> Well, because you're awake. Yeah. You're awake. And I guess the public education system in South Australia, you're being taught the gender bread person, you're celebrating, you're told to dress up in purple for ID Hobbit Day, you know, so there's all these trans ideology.

>> To do with the Hobbit, by the way. It's about, it's about trans, and I don't know what it's about.

>> No, I was just looking at your hairy feet.

>> So, so, so there, if you send your kid to a public school, they're going to come out indoctrinated by this. Um, and, and so, and yeah, we've had to, we had to find, we had to try pretty hard to find a school where this sort of BS wasn't happening.

>> Well, it's also happening everywhere now because, um, the government can't even define a woman.

>> Yeah.

>> I did a post about this the other day, right? I, uh, and I sat down before I did the post, I'm like, what am I going to talk about here? Right. And, you know, there was a clear thing there that I, um, I sort of came up with, if you can't define something, you can't defend it. It's like the, like, like what is a woman argument, you know what I mean? Like, same with the baby thing. Like,

>> if you just think that a baby, like you were saying before, isn't the same baby when it's born five minutes after,

>> then you can't define what that is. So then you can't defend what that is. And I mean, the government at the moment, they don't, they do not have the capability to be able to control an economy that's over a trillion dollars while sitting there and telling us they can't define a woman. Like, how are we supposed to defend women? How are we supposed to defend their rights, their spaces, and their sports? M.

>> Um, and it's good to see actually that, uh, although the Liberal Party for over a decade were in power after Julia Gillard, that stupid lady, decided to change the, uh, legislation around the definition of a woman, that they finally come out and spoken out against it.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you think this will ever happen mainstream with abortions fully?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Truly believe that?

>> No, I truly believe it. So, I think if you look at anything like how slavery was overcome or any kind of injustice, you'll find that initially, the people that are jumping up and down about it are seen as extremists, and everyone, everything's done to kind of attack them and marginalize them. But eventually, it becomes mainstream. So, 10 years ago, um, like S. Grover, right? Now, every conservative politician in the country is trying to get her for a photo shoot, and they're tweeting about it.

>> I need to reach out to her to get her.

>> Yeah. But everyone's doing it. But five years ago, that wasn't the case. 10 years ago, um, you know, it was even more not the case at the time when Julie Gillard changed the accent.

>> I remember a couple years ago, they got her on the, uh, what's that stupid show, uh, where that W lead dude was on there, Channel.

>> Yeah. And they tried to grill her a year ago, but now it's like, wa, we've changed. We have changed.

>> No, things have changed. People are awake. The One Nation vote is has is surging. So, people can, even the mainstream media can see things are shifting. People aren't listening to them anymore. They're now trying to come along to the party. Like, we've even noticed in the coverage of our abortion issue, they have changed, um, somewhat from being openly hostile to now almost being fair in the coverage we had last week on the announcement of the bill. So, I believe that on abortion, this will happen. It takes time. Um, but, but, you know, if you just think about, like, two years ago, we were at the Olympics, and you've got a male boxer, um, punching on a female in the women's division and then getting gold. But then Trump gets elected as an executive order that biology is the basis of male and female. Um, the Olympic Committee's now changed its tune and said they're going to be checking, um, birth certificates and doing tests to make sure that female sport is for women, biological females only. So, things take time, and in Australia, we are quite behind, like, behind where the UK.

>> Three years. So, I think on abortion, the fundamentals are there. This is a child in the womb who's a human being. If you're on the side of abortion, you support killing human beings. We'll eventually catch up. We'll eventually get there. It, it, it just takes time.

>> And how many babies do we abort in Australia per year?

>> Um, so, close to 100,000. The most recent data suggests 88,000, but that data is a bit old. Um, and so it's a lot of, you know, we talk about a migration crisis, a population crisis, and a fertility crisis. But part of that crisis is that we're killing so many babies, um, and we're not replacing our population.

>> Yes. Mhm.

>> Which is one of where my main argument has come with, right? Where we're importing two, three migrants for every birth in this country. Our birth rate is a 1.42. If it goes, goes below 1.4, that's generally like an extinction-level event.

>> Yeah.

>> And, um, I guess this is where my glaring argument has come out over the past few days about stuff, but I don't want to get to that yet. I want to get to.

>> I still want to stay on your stuff. So, what's your next step after this bill passes in the SA parliament?

>> Okay. So, to get it through to law, it has to pass in the upper house and the lower house. We think we've got the numbers for the first time to pass it in the upper house.

>> Is that because of the One Nation?

>> Yep.

>> And so, that's really significant. But then to get it through the lower house, which Labor runs, that's going to be tough. But having said that, their MPs are now going to be forced for the first time to put on the record their support for killing babies after 25 weeks. For, for literally, they'll have to say, "We're on the side of injecting these babies with poison into their hearts." Um, many of those MPs live in electorates where the people would not be with them on such an extremist position. And so, I think it's going to be interesting. I think, I think we'll have a mountain to climb to get it through the lower house, but I think we could. Um, when they sold abortion up to birth in South Australia, they stood on the steps with this with this sign that said "Decriminalization." And so, the lie that they sold was that we need this new law because we need to stop women going to jail. But no women had been jailed for abortion in anyone's memory. Like, that just had not happened. It was a total lie. What they were really doing was removing all upper gestational limits on abortion so that it could be available up until birth and for any reason. So, the good thing about this campaign is for the first time, we can now have this debate on our own terms, and we can say, "Are you on the side of killing babies older than 25 weeks, or are you not?" And if you are on that side of killing babies older than 25 weeks, then then you're really an extreme person. Like, you, like, like you're a murderer. There's no other way to describe it because you, you support injecting that baby with poison and then delivering them dead when you could just induce that baby early, deliver them alive, and place them for adoption. Like, you could do that.

>> There is, those babies have to come out. They either come out dead or they come out alive. You guys are on the side of bringing them out dead. And so, I think having that debate publicly is really significant. But then beyond that, once you have that debate, and whether we pass that law or we don't, we keep having those debates then because I think, you know, as James said to me when we were debating this when I was 21, was, well, what's the difference between a baby five minutes before birth and five minutes after? I guess I would say to people, well, what's the difference between a 24-week-old baby and a 25-week-old baby, or a 20-week and a 25-week, and so on? That they are human from conception. And at any point in human history when we've taken human rights away from a group of humans, it's always ended in a pretty bad place.

>> But what about the right of the baby in the, in the, in the womb?

>> Yeah.

>> So, like, what about their right of living? I know you're talking about taking away the rights of someone else, but like the right of that baby when they're conceived.

>> Yeah. I would argue they have human rights because they're human beings. And,

>> Yeah. And so, and so even from the moment of fertilization, you have a, a new and distinct human person that is created.

>> And if left alone will develop and grow and contribute to our society.

>> Yeah. And this is where, uh, this is where we'll probably flow into the argument of, like, um, immigration as well. Like, we are, I always talk about importing the next generation when I'm sitting here, and we're aborting the next generation.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We wouldn't need high levels of immigration if we didn't abort the next generation.

>> 28% of Gen Z is aborted. Um.

>> Really? What?

>> Yeah. 28%. So, we are just because it's one in.

>> Over one in four.

>> Yeah. Because it's, because, yeah, it's that most unsafe place for a child to be. It's not like on the playground unsupervised and a pedophile might come and grab them. It's actually just in the womb. Like, that's, we're just, we are, we are killing babies, um, for any reason, um, in this country. And, yeah, it, it has to stop. This is the West. The West is doing this. Um, and so they're importing, we're importing people, and we're killing our, our own babies. And it is having massive cultural disruption.

>> It's even having the most massive cultural disruption now that, um, people are, for the first time in history. And this is where we spoke about the other night. We're debating between what's an Australian. Like, this is a cultural division now that, um, immigration is causing. I wouldn't be having this argument if, if I was five years ago, and like, immigration wasn't so high, right? No one had these arguments. So, before we have a discussion about this, I just want to say that the people that are doing this to us, is the Labor government, through high levels of immigration, through their unsafe practices of immigration, through their terrible laws of aborting babies.

>> Yeah.

>> And now they're making people on the right, jump and fight and, um, disagree with each other, which is healthy to have debate. But we're at a point now where what I'm trying to say is, everything's being pushed down to us by this leftist communist government that are trying to replace us in our own country, and they're actually allowing the, um, abortion of the next generation coming through.

>> Yeah. So, I would say abortion up to birth, radical trans ideology in classrooms, the eSafety Commissioner, the, um, erosion of freedom of speech, and the migration mess that we find ourselves in. I think it's a both sides issue. So, I, I recognize that Labor is far worse than the Libs, and, and, but this, the, the migration blowout that's happened since 1996 until the present day, that is a both sides issue. And it's in, it's only now that we've seen Pauline Hanson kind of force it open, and, and she somehow managed to break through since Bondi in a way that she wasn't able to beforehand. Australians are awake now, or they're awakening. And, and now you see Angus Taylor and the Libs talk about, well, we need a values test. We need a clamp down on mass migration. But they weren't saying this before. I've worked, worked with both governments in my position as a researcher at Adelaide Uni in migration research. They both have always been on the side of a big Australia. And, um, it's only Pauline Hanson who's consistently said, uh, from her maiden speech in the 1990s, that, you know, if we have immigration, we need to have integration and assimilation, and the program needs to be managed in a coherent way. Um, yeah. So.

>> Yeah, I'm sort of going one step further than her and saying, um, and this is where my arguing is, like, the, like, we're, like, I think Australians, let's say you're Anglo-Celtic or indigenous Australians, we're, we're being, we're being replaced at a rate that is like glaringly obvious now. Um, I think, right, I'm, I'm walking around, I'm seeing different cultures everywhere where five years ago, we didn't really see that. And what I'm, my sort of argument at the moment is, is that there is so many people coming in at such a rapid rate, and the government are telling us that all these people are Australian. And I'm sitting back and I'm being like, well, no, they've been here since breakfast.

>> Mhm.

>> They can't just be Australian if they've been here since such a short time. Someone like yourself, this is where the debate is, right? Like, are you Australian? Like, when did you come here?

>> Uh, so, it would have been 1988. 1988.

>> From from England. I was about four years old and my dad. So, this was before we introduced temporary work visas. We only had permanent work visas. So, you, you came as a permanent resident. So, there was an IT need. My dad was highly skilled. He was able to bring over his wife and his three children. We settled in Sydney, suburban Sydney, bought a house, made it our home. He actually died six months after. We didn't get booted back because he wasn't no longer able to do that job. We stayed, uh, because we were all permanent residents by that point, and we've made Australia a home. You know, we've got five children. Um, I guess in our last conversation, I asked you, do you think I'm Australian?

>> And recently, I've been seeing on X that your position on that has changed somewhat. Yeah.

>> Um, what's, what, why have you changed your position, and what would be your answer now to that question? Am I Australian?

>> No, not ethnically.

>> Mhm. Values, culturally wise. This is where the argument is.

>> Because there's so many people like you that have come in, and, um, you've come in when, uh, Anglo-Celtic and or indigenous Australians have been the overwhelming majority. So, you've been able to come in and assimilate to our culture pretty easily, and you've sort of left your culture at the door. Now, the reason I've changed recently is because I've sort of done a lot of inner thinking. I've done a lot of, uh, a lot of, um, reading, reviewing, and I think that if we can't define something, we can't defend it.

>> And I purely think that the government, Oh, no, sorry. Australia isn't Australia without the Australian people. Just like Japan, Japan's not Japan because it sits on the island of Japan. Japan's Japan because of the Japanese people. And I think that the culture comes from the people.

>> And that if we replace the people,

>> we replace Australia.

>> And Australia then is some,

>> true.

>> fluid or, or, you know, some, uh, non-binary, um, whatever it is. And it can just be changed. And I, I don't want that change.

>> You have to define what Australia is. But at the same time,

>> we're talking about her who has everything that a white Australian would have except for the color of her skin.

>> Mhm.

>> Would you agree with that? Like,

>> 100%.

>> Yeah.

>> Completely came into this culture, um, completely adapted, and would arguably probably be doing more for Australia than anyone else in the history of Australia, given the bill that she's about to pass.

>> Yeah. So, we're talking about whiteness then, at the end of the day, not culture per se, because culture, that would just cancel out the culture issue because culture is the same. So, we can just tick that off the list. We share, share the same culture. So, what, the only thing that you and I would not share with her would be her skin color.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, what built this nation then from 1901 all the way up until 2001?

>> Yeah.

>> So, um, so, so hang on. So, just to just to understand, though, you would say your, uh, ability to call yourself Australian would be that you share the same skin color as the people who built the country?

>> Same origins. Anglo-Celtic.

>> Anglo-Celtic, though, but that's specific to the British Isles.

>> Mhm. So,

>> so, who was the people that formed government?

>> The Brits. So, but, but what I'm saying is, like,

>> um, what's your heritage?

>> Uh, so, my, both of my family originated from the UK.

>> Yeah.

>> Um,

>> so, you're Anglo-Celtic?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think Dad's family came here very, very early 1900s.

>> Yeah.

>> Mom's was a little different. Maybe around the war.

>> Okay.

>> First or second? I don't really know.

>> Okay. But I find it hard to believe that. Just tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth. I don't want to misrepresent your position.

>> But I find it hard to believe that you would qualify her Australianness based on her skin color or like her Indian heritage, but that you would look at a guy who is like me, say, for example. Now, it just so happens that I have Irish blood. So, I am technically half Anglo-Celtic, but my other half comes from Holland. Imagine if I was, both of my ancestors were from Holland, but I was still just sitting here in front of you talking with an Australian accent.

>> Yeah. So, I like to always say as well, that that Anglo-Celtic and or European culture, because I think that's what we're built off. So, Anglo-Celtic European culture. A lot of people don't think that. A lot of people just say Anglo-Celtic, but I've been very upfront in saying in some of the stuff I put out on Twitter, Anglo-Celtic, European, and indigenous culture, because I believe that's what built us from 1901 all the way until, let's say, when's that, when, when did mass immigration, when did.

>> 75? So, 75 was when the Racial Discrimination Act was passed, and then we officially developed like a non-discriminatory migration program. Um, and then in terms of mass immigration, it's been growing since 1996, and it really took off in the 2000s.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So,

>> and then post-COVID, it's been on steroids.

>> Yeah. So, and that's where my sort of argument is, because.

>> But would you say that indigenous people built the country?

>> No. This is my argument with indigenous people. They had the land before we built all the [ __ ]. So, they had the land, we built it, now we share it.

>> Yeah. But Australia is about the people and the culture, not about the land. So, just because they happen to be on the same geographical parcel of land, how does that mean that they're Australian? Because she's on the land too, but you would say she's not.

>> So,

>> no, she didn't forge land from 1901 all the way up until.

>> No, but neither did the indigenous people. They just happened to be here, just like she happens to be here.

>> Yeah, but they were here. They definitely were here.

>> They were here, but they didn't do anything to build it. I mean, they did a little bit, but no more than say, like, an Afghan camel herder might have done, and, you know, various other ethnicities or.

>> I think they're definitely a part of the people and the culture which has shaped this country.

>> But the Westminster, James, is not denying that. But if you're thinking about the institutions that the Brits brought over, like the Westminster system of government, um, the court separation of powers, all of that, that's come from a, um, Judeo-Christian foundation from the British Empire.

>> Christian foundation come from, not Judeo-Christian, Christian foundation. I think we got to be here.

>> We can, we can acknowledge that.

>> Yeah. But, like, I would say that Aboriginal people had a small, a very small role to play in building modern Australia, but so did some other races as well. Like, Afghan people helped to open up the interior. Chinese people helped to, like, build the railways and whatever. So, yes, they had a small role, but by that same token, you would also extend that to other cultures. I, I would.

>> So, you think any, so, do you think anyone can be Australian then?

>> No. I feel like in order to be consistent in your position, you should also say that Aboriginal people are not Australian. And that wouldn't be new. Like, that was the position up until recently.

>> So, they're indigenous Australians.

>> Yeah. But they weren't considered to be full Australians until like the 60s. Now, I believe that they are, but I'm the guy who doesn't base things on race. You know what I mean? So, would Joanna be Indian Australian then?

>> Uh, you don't have to say Indian Australian anymore than, um,

>> we're calling indigenous people indigenous Australians. I would just call them Australians, and they can call themselves indigenous if they want to. She can call herself Indian if she wants to. It's up to her.

>> Like, I'm half Dutch. I don't call myself a Dutch Australian. I think that's just on the individual. They can choose what.

>> But I also think if you come here, you actually should identify as this country. So, if you come here and you become a citizen of this country, you're lucky enough to get that. We're Australian. Like, people have been asking me on Twitter, who do you support in the cricket? Who would you support in a war? If India. Actually, I literally seen one, and someone was like, "This will end the argument. Who do you follow in cricket? India or Australia?" And they're like, "If she, if she says whoever, then she's that." She doesn't even know what cricket is.

>> Yeah. I don't watch the cricket. But if I was to follow a team, it would be the Australian team, like in the Olympics or whatever. And if we were at war, it would be Australia. I've only been to India once. And at home, the only language that was ever spoken other than English was Portuguese because my mom and my grandmother maternal speak that. I don't, because I never, so, we learn English from day dot because I was born in England. Um, I think I have a, I do have a problem with the ethnically Australian thing that you you're banging on about now.

>> So, what is it?

>> Well, because I don't think it's intellectually rigorous as a concept. Um, I, I don't think that, like, what is an ethnic Australian?

>> Anglo-Celtic and or European indigenous Australian ethnic. So,

>> that's, that's what ethnically we because there's a difference between ethnic Australian and then Australian citizen. Like, the problem is now, if we cannot define what this is, then we cannot defend the massive flood coming in because Anthony just keeps telling us that, oh, these are people, all Australian because they hit our, because their, because their boots hit our shores. Okay. So, we all agree that that's [ __ ] though. That's not the question that's under debate.

>> Yeah. We all agree that that's [ __ ]. So, that's not. So, would you agree then that if you can't define that, then you can't defend that? Because, because by everyone's logic, everyone should just, we should define it. We, we all agree that we should define it. What we're arguing about is your definition of it.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So,

>> so, what is your definition?

>> Well, let me, let me first, let me ask you a question.

>> No, no, no. You give me your definition. What's your definition of an Australian?

>> Well, I don't necessarily have a, a coherent one. I've been thinking about it ever since this first came up. It's not something I've given that much thought to. I think I don't need to provide a perfect definition of what I think an Australian is in order to try and prove that yours is wrong. Do you understand? Like,

>> we both have a base level argument of what an Australian is to be able to prove. Because, no, that's how you start with a debate. You can't just come out and be like, "Okay, this is your argument. I'm going to pick it to pieces." But you don't even give me your definition of a show. So, you have to give me a definition of.

>> Don't let me explain.

>> Well, then what are we doing here then, dude? No, you need.

>> If you're not going to define what an Australian is. What are we doing here?

>> Just let me finish.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. If we find, say, like, um, we're out digging a hole, right? We both dig a hole and we come across a large bone. Okay. Now, if you say this bone came from, say, like, a, um, a giant flying fairy, I can actually say that's not the case. And then you say, "Well, what do you think it came from?" And I go, "I don't [ __ ] know. I just know it's not from a giant flying fairy because that's a dumb theory." So, just me not having a coherent theory of my own. I try to be intellectually honest. All right? I'm not going to tell you, sit here and go, "Oh, um, well, here's what I think." When I don't know what I think yet. It's hard to come up with this stuff. Okay? I agree with you that, um, when people, people's boots first land on the, on the, um, on the land, they're not Australian straight away.

>> Um, I also don't know if I think citizenship is the moment that that happens, although it could be. Or maybe it happens sometime afterwards. It's a vague line. I don't know. It's complicated. It's a little bit like when you work at a, um, you start business, start work at a new, um, workplace, right?

>> Now, at first, it's a little bit awkward, and you've got to kind of like, you've got to be a little bit submissive to the other people who have been.

There for like 20 years. You know what I mean? But at some point, you do become a true, like, fully-fledged member of that company. You know what I mean? There is a point there, and it's a bit vague, like you're not, it's not necessarily super easy to nail down when that happens. But I'm telling you this, I'm telling you this. If there's one guy there who goes, "Oh, you know, you've both been there for 20 years, but this guy keeps on telling you that his grandfather started the company and therefore he has like rights that you don't have." You're going to tell him to go get [ __ ] because it's annoying. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, "We've both been there. We've both contributed. So, shut the [ __ ] up about your grandfather. I actually couldn't give a shit." You know what I mean?

>> So, you're getting angry that I'm calling you a wife and non-Australian.

>> Oh, well, I'm not getting angry about that. I'm, I'm angry about, yeah. Like, I'm angry at the theory because it's stupid. Sorry, no offense. I think it's dumb. Look, let me ask you this question. Would you accept, um, responsibility for white treatment of Aboriginal people in Australia? If someone said, "You're a white guy, you should feel ashamed of yourself for the treatment of Aboriginal people."

>> Not at all.

>> Why? Explain.

>> Because it's got nothing to do with me.

>> Why?

>> Personally, I've done nothing to him.

>> So then how come? All right. So you want to, as a white guy, you want to take the credit for building this country, but you want to reject all of the responsibility for anything that you want, all of the rights of responsibility.

>> No, no, no. But, but do you understand what the point that I'm getting at, like, so do you think that I can just go to Japan, get a, get a Japanese citizenship, and then become Japanese? Is that what we're saying?

>> No, because there are big, like, because there are definitions around this that we need to have a really tough stance on and be like, well, this is an Australian and we can't define it, we can't defend it. The same thing with what is a woman argument. If we can't define a woman, we can't defend women.

>> Dude, the definition of an Australian is pretty much bloody the same as the left's definition of a woman. Look, how, how.

>> Because, because you're going all on superficial appearance. The left will define a woman as anything that looks kind of like a woman. You define an Australian as someone that you think looks kind of like an Australian. It's the same [ __ ] man.

>> And demographics don't matter. Demographics don't matter.

>> I'm not saying.

>> You're saying. So you are literally saying that if we got 30 million Arabs here tomorrow, brought them all and then just said they just adapted in our way of life for the next 15 years, that they're all just Australian?

>> Could be. You don't know what that looks like.

>> You just said 30 million Arabs could be Australian if they came here tomorrow and adapted our way of life over 15 years. Adapting to our world. That's pretty.

>> And then we just demographically, then we just demographically change Australia and we're all just sitting here going, "Yeah, that's all right."

>> Well, Italy might be an interesting case study.

>> Well, hang on. You just brought up Japan. Okay.

>> I think that Japan is a case that, um, that people always bring up because it's like, demographically, it's just like one race of people.

>> Oh, we could bring up India or whatever.

>> Well, why don't you bring up Africa? Why don't you bring up Russia, right? Because you've got like, reindeer herders in the north, you've got like, white people in the middle, you've got people that look Chinese down the bottom, you've got like, a whole range of different people. But the other thing is, is like, people always bring up Japan and say, "Well, they don't let people move into their country." It's like, well.

>> The Japanese are pretty [ __ ] bigoted. Like, they're pretty racist and they're a bunch of psychos. Like, no offense if there's any Japanese listening, but I don't have that much respect for Japanese culture. If you read about what happened in World War II, it was absolutely freaking horrific, man. They marched into China into Nanjing and they slaughtered 300,000 people. They forced 200,000 women into prostitution.

>> No, but seriously.

>> We don't take cues from Japan. Like, but like I'm not saying that. Yeah. So, so like, like you're happily just sitting here saying, "Yeah, we would you would gladly just watched us be, watch Australians be demographically replaced in our own country because you're not willing to sit here and define it." Like, this is the problem. Like.

>> I don't think you're defining it any more than I am. Okay.

>> No. No, no. You, you haven't even, you haven't. I have not said it's just a white person. Stop trying to put words into my mouth. This is what you're trying to do. You're trying to sit here and just say he wants a white only Australia. Like they all try and sit out there and do. They all try and sit there and say that you just want a white Australia so you can pin me up as some type of Nazi. It's pissing me off and you've been sitting here doing it for the last 10 minutes, mate.

>> Well, that's because I think that you are.

>> Do you think I'm a Nazi?

>> Uh, I think you've got an ideology that's on the on the Nazi spectrum for. Yeah. Yeah. For protecting Australia, for saying that Anglo-Celtic, European, and or indigenous Australians are, in my opinion, Australian. You think that is a Nazi? You think that ideology is being a Nazi?

>> No. I don't think you're being a Nazi. But.

>> No, no, no. You think that ideology is being a Nazi?

>> Are you going to let me talk?

>> No. No. No. You ask me questions every time I try and answer it.

>> Yeah. Well, you were s over here sitting over me trying to talk over me, weren't you?

>> Don't say, "Okay, guys. I'm trying to answer your questions, but you're not letting me answer. You can't even define an Australian, bro. What is an Australian? What is an Australian? Okay, no, shut up. You define what an Australian is. How many times have I done it? I've done it four times now. An Australian is a Anglo, Celtic, European, and or indigenous descent person. That's what I think demographic.

>> So, a white person. So, then you say.

>> I literally said European. European covers like Italy, Greek, the majority of Europe because a lot of people migrated from Europe.

>> Okay. And then indigenous Australians. Indigenous Australians are brown.

>> Okay. White people.

>> Indigenous Australians are brown.

>> Okay. So if someone comes, she's been here for 20 years. If someone comes over from Europe 20 years ago and speaks with a broad Australian accent, then they just purely because of their race, they're an Australian in your view. So you ask me, do I think that's Nazi? Well, it's not Nazi cuz you're not talking about gassing Jews or whatever. But it's like, but it's a racist ideology. Yes.

>> Okay. I'm happy to be called racist. Racist. It's the definition of the word.

>> Okay. Well, I am happy to have a racist ideology then. That's fine.

>> Fine. It's up to you. I don't, I don't really care. But if you're asking my opinion, that's my opinion.

>> Okay. So, what, what is an Australian?

>> I already explained. I don't answer it. No.

>> Don't do this like podcasty thing. It's annoying.

>> What is an Australian? In my view, an Australian is someone who comes here because everybody came here, right? So, you know, even the Brits that came here, they're ethnically British. Like your parents are ethnically British, right? Like you talking about ethnically Australian. I'm not sure that there is such a concept, Scott. And Sam.

>> Sorry, Sam. I think I'm talking. Um, but I think that because I've heard a lot of these arguments from him, too. But I think one of the issues is like, and this might be why James is is posit because you're happy to include all the people like you've got indigenous Australians in there, but it doesn't actually make sense with your, if your definition is the people that built the institutions that make the country what it is. That wasn't indigenous Australians. That was.

>> No, it wasn't. But like, we sort of took the land off.

>> So I feel. Yeah. So I feel like you're including them in because you sort of feel like you have to. But at the end of the day, your position says that if you have brown skin like me, because you came from India, it doesn't matter that you've never been to India, you never lived there, it doesn't matter that, um.

>> Are you proud of your Indian heritage?

>> Well, I, I'll be honest, Sam, I don't even really know anything about it. Like, I, I don't, I, the courage that I've learned to cook have been from a cookbook, right? Like, you know, and, and I'm, I'm a Catholic, a Christian, so I don't, I, I don't. Yeah. It, it just feels to me that what your definition comes down to is essentially like, it's, it's people with the with white skin because.

>> Indigenous people don't have white skin.

>> Yeah. But I feel like you're completely arbitrary position. Why would you include indigenous people? It just makes no sense.

>> Because it's not going to be on the land.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We had the land. So sorry, they had the land. We took it off and we built all the [ __ ] and now they use all the [ __ ] that we built. I think they're Australian.

>> We built the [ __ ] and she uses the [ __ ] that we built. But you don't call her Australian.

>> Yeah. She came here in like the '90s with her family from India. Originated from India. I know they came from Brit from from England but they were originated from India. We are denying basic basic origin and biology here for saying someone isn't what they are. Like we are literally being like that person isn't didn't originate from India. That person didn't originate from Japan. That person didn't originate.

>> No, no, but you said Europeans count. So if a person did originate from Germany, then they're just as Australian as a guy who came from England, even though it was British people who founded this country.

>> But where did they originate?

>> So you're denying basic biology, too.

>> Where did they originate from?

>> They originated from Germany, bro. It's a different country. It's literally not even the same island.

>> Britain over here, Ireland, Germany over here, mainland.

>> Not the same country.

>> Anglo-Celtic people actually started in Europe. You know that.

>> Look, dude. We all started in Africa, mate.

>> I know. We all walked up, didn't we?

>> Yeah. We walked up and we like bred with [ __ ] Neanderthals. You know what I mean? Literal fact that happened. We had sex with Neanderthals and so like we all have a bit of that in us. Um, so but like, um.

>> So this is, so sorry, jumping. So, okay, you go.

>> So, so this is my thing, right? And this is one of my arguments. I heard you say the other day and I liked it and I, and I really thought about it. We're all equal in the eyes of God. And I was like, I think he has a point. But from my point of view, let's say Sudanese kids, they equate for maybe what, 90% of machete crime, but they're under 1% of the population.

>> Mhm.

>> I would not want to live around a street full of Sudanese people given the data.

>> Yeah.

>> And like, no [ __ ], we're all on the same page.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, like for me, I'm not going to be like, but with something coming out and saying we're all equal in the eyes of God. Well, I don't know that all cultures are equal in the, in, agree more, in the same page, bro. We're all on the same page.

>> Yeah. So, so how do we.

>> There's a lot of white [ __ ] as well. I would totally deport like some [ __ ] um with like pink hair and a septum piercing from Gertrude Street over a like a good Christian Sudanese person.

>> Back to [ __ ] England where they came from, mate, because that's the thing. You say, "Oh, I'm ethnically Australian." No, bro. You're ethnically British. Okay.

>> No, no, I'm ethnically Australian because we formed the government in 1901.

>> Okay. Sure. So, but then once again, you said, "Oh, would you say that people who are ethnically Australian are, um, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't give them that, um, but you would say people who are ethnically Japanese." So, you're saying, so you're saying anyone now can just be deported.

>> Back to England?

>> No. If you, if you gave me two people to deport, I would probably pick that one.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So.

>> But I think we all, there's some fundamentals that we all agree on. Immigration system's out of control. We should deport the, this is why we're having this.

>> We should deport the criminals, right? Like anyone that's breaking the law who's a permanent visa holder but does have a dual citizenship, send them home. But then I think, I guess my issue, Sam, is the argument that you and Scott Chalon are prosecuting. Um, to me, it's, it's really like, it is problematic and I want to work with you because I like you and, and I feel like there's so much that we can agree on. But I, I think that this is, I do think this is like the wrong, this is going down the wrong path because James can't properly define yet what is Australian. But I think what he can do is say that your definition excludes someone like me from being Australian.

>> Okay. So if we.

>> Should we talk about that? Am I, I'm not Australian in your house anymore?

>> Okay. But if we, if we. Yeah. You're an Australian citizen. So if we move away from demographically what we are, do you think that moves into insecurity in Australia, insecurity in our future?

>> Well, I think one of the problems we've had is that we've.

>> We've introduced immigrants at such a great scale that it's been incredibly disruptive. There's been no obligation to assimilate or integrate. No English language requirement. So there's so many.

>> And why is that? Because we were the overwhelming majority in our own country. So if we had, if we are the overwhelming majority in our own country when you came in, that's fine. Integrated fine. Now we've been slipping away from being the overwhelming majority in our own country. And by, by I mean, overwhelming majority Anglo-Celtic. And can I just say, Australian when I, like.

>> Just say white, bro. Like.

>> No, no. Anglo-Celtic and or European.

>> Where the [ __ ] are white people in the world? And stop trying to stop trying to lure me in to be like, "Can you just say white?" Like, every single, every single time. Anglo-Celtic and or European Australians, indigenous Australians. How many times? Annoyed at me for calling you on making euphemisms like the left does. Just use the words, bro. I know you mean white. Okay.

>> Anglo-Celtic. Anglo-Celtic. Anglo-Celtic. Anglo. Anglo-Celtic. Anglo-Celtic and or Europe. Thank you for letting me finish. Anglo. I don't even know where we're at. Anglo-Celtic and or European Australians. When we don't become the overwhelming majority in our own country, then how are people meant to integrate? Because right now, they're just coming in. Anthony came out this morning. He's like, uh, I just want to, I just want to say thanks to the Indian community for helping build modern Australia. Why isn't he saying, "I just want to thank the Australian community?" Why is he referring to them as the Indian community?

>> I, look, both of us.

>> Originated that came in the global financial crisis. So in the mid to late 2000s, we had an influx of Irish people, um, because their economy was tanking and they wanted to come here. They came as backpackers and then they switched to 457 visa holders, then they became permanent residents. So the same thing that Indians are doing now, the Irish were doing in huge numbers in the mid-2000s. Should we send them home?

>> When, when were they coming?

>> Uh, global financial crisis, between 2008 and 2016, we had a lot of white people from Ireland coming. Um.

>> No, no, no, no. Well, what I'm saying, and what I've always been saying, is, is what I've been true to my word, is, is these people aren't assimilating and we were the overwhelming majority in our own country. I think back then in 2016, Anglo-Celtic and or European Australians were 76% of Australians.

>> What's the policy prescription here, Sam? Is it.

>> I don't have a policy prescription. Why do I need a policy?

>> Well, because I think language. I think that what you're doing is, is really, it really concerns me as someone with brown skin.

>> I'm moving on after this argu, after I'm having you on today. I'm literally moving on for you. You're going to be able to.

>> Well, that's fine. I'll just, like, people can say what they, they've been saying what they want for, for, for years now.

>> I don't think you realize just how.

>> Big a thing this is.

>> I don't think this is something. Oh, no. Oh, no. I can, I can move on. You can say that an Australian is this, and I can define that, and I can say these people are great Australians.

>> Define what an Australian is.

>> You, dude, you can't define what. I've, I've literally, I don't know how many times you have come out.

>> That I can't, but you can't acknowledge that you can't. Your definition doesn't work.

>> I let you tell me if my definition doesn't work. I just defined it. It is defining something. I've just defined it.

>> Let's see if you can.

>> Let's see if you can. You first. What's an Australian? What's an Australian? What's an Australian? What's. There you go. So, don't come at me. Let me answer my question. So, don't come at me for telling me. He thinks he knows what an Australian is.

>> I just told you what an Australian is, dude.

>> This is getting ridiculous.

>> Don't let me ask him questions.

>> This is getting ridiculous.

>> You won't let me test your thesis. Go test my thesis. You going to shut up and let me actually ask the question?

>> Popcorn the kettle black, mate.

>> All right, let's go. Let. No, Jay, ask some questions.

>> No, no, no. No, no, no. If you're going to sit here and, and, and sit there and assault me in my own [ __ ] house, mate, this is getting [ __ ] actual [ __ ]. You can't just sit there and have a crack at me and tell me my thesis is [ __ ] when you can't even define it yourself, mate. You can't even sit here and define Australians.

>> Yeah. Well, this is ridiculous. Get out of my [ __ ] house then, mate.

>> Let's go. Come on.

>> You think this is ridiculous? You want to sit there and have a crack at me in the house like this? This is ridiculous. Is it?

>> What's an Australian?

>> Let's ask some question.

>> You are making fun of me for not being able to define what an Australian is. Did you keep telling me for me to even ask you a question? But test your assumption.

>> Ask it then.

>> But you won't shut up. So I can't go. I'm talking. Ask the question.

>> You're being ridiculous.

>> Shut up. Calling each other names. Oh my goodness.

>> You are being ridiculous.

>> I should be sitting in the middle. Ask him some [ __ ] questions. He will answer them.

>> All right.

>> Deep breaths.

>> A German person who arrived 20 years ago and, uh, has Australian citizenship. Are they Australian? They're in. They, they, they are from Germany.

>> Yeah.

>> No. Yes or no?

>> What?

>> Have they come from Germany?

>> Yeah, they're from Germany. Yes. Anglo, Anglo-Celtic and or Europeans.

>> Have they assimilated into our society?

>> Uh, yes.

>> Yeah. Well, then I would probably class them as a German Australian.

>> Are they Australian?

>> German Australian.

>> Is she? What's she?

>> Indian Australian.

>> Okay. She is from Indian descent with an Australian citizenship.

>> All right. So they're the same amount Australian. Fine. Okay. So an English person who arrived, basic, like debating basic biology here.

>> It's not biology. It's your definition of what an Australian is. Cuz you were just mocking me for not knowing and I'm testing if you know. So let's go. All right. A British person who arrived 30 years ago and has fully assimilated, has an Australian accent. What are they?

>> British Australian.

>> They're not Australian.

>> Sorry.

>> They're not. They're not full-blown. They're not. Are they as Australian as you?

>> Well, no. I was. No. No. Because I was born here. So.

>> You have to be born here to be Australian.

>> No, no, no. I didn't say that.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So, what is an, at which point do you become an Australian?

>> Well, let's say your kids, right? Your kids are half Indian, half Australian. That guy that came over, explain him again.

>> Say, like someone from 30 years ago arrived in the country from England.

>> Are they Australian?

>> I would probably say that that is an English Australian and their kids would be Australian.

>> Okay. What if they, um, came over when they were two? They're 50 years old. They speak with a broad Aussie accent. They work on a cattle station.

>> Are they Australian?

>> From where? England.

>> Well, he was probably born in England.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> English Australian.

>> So, it's not. So, that's what it is. It's just birth.

>> No. No. No. It's not birth. It's also origin.

>> Okay. Sure. So, all right. What about if she was born in Australia? Would she be Australian?

>> No, because she is from India. My kids and your kids are Indian Australian. What was our government built off? What was our government built off?

>> The Westminster tradition.

>> British law.

>> European law. Is India European? No.

>> Okay. So, what are my kids then? What are they?

>> They are half Indian, half Australian.

>> So, half Indian, half Australian, Australian. Is that.

>> Half Indian, half Australian.

>> Are they Australian?

>> They are Australian kids born here, but they are of half Indian descent, half Australian descent. How are you not getting this? Because.

>> Because we're just asking about what it is in Australian, like really long that you have to use for everyone. Everyone has their own category instead of just one category. Now we got like a million.

>> When we sit there.

>> I don't think this is a better system than mine.

>> Huh?

>> I don't think your system's any better than mine. You mocked me for not knowing what an Australian is. But it's like.

>> You would, you literally said, you literally said, "Person is that." But really.

>> You literally came out and said, "If there are 30 million Arabs and they all just came here and adopted our way of life, then they're just Australian."

>> No. If they adopted our way of life, I don't think it's likely that they would adopt our way and they had Sharia law.

>> But I'm just going with your hypothesis compatible.

>> No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Australia, Australia is free from religious law, but you can re-practice your religious law. That's in.

>> We built Christian traditions. We acknowledge that at the start. Yeah, I know. But that's called freedom. If someone wants to come here and just practice their, they do it all the time. Are you saying that we need to deport all Muslims?

>> I don't think that Islam is compatible with Australian values. I think it's a [ __ ] up religion. I think it's barbaric and primitive and and wicked. So, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about race.

>> And I think the thing is, can I, can I say something now about this? So I feel like, so first of all, Sam, I feel like this is, I feel like for the first time, people on our side of politics have an opportunity to take on the left and I feel, and I feel like we're winning. And no, please just let me finish for a second. You boys have talked a lot, but I, I feel like we could do this, like we could actually defeat them and we need to. I work in a university system that is controlled by leftists and, you know, we, the media is controlled by leftists, the government's controlled by leftists. This is the first time in in my lifetime that we've had this opportunity. And, and I feel like if we go down this path that you and Scotty are trying to potentially take us down, we're saying we need to be like the Japanese when the Japanese are racist. That, that I feel like that's a dangerous path. Like I don't want my, my kids aren't my kids aren't Indian Australian.

>> Yeah. Scott said it to me in my interview with him.

>> Like, we, what the Japanese is, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Yeah. He said.

>> We should do what the Japanese do.

>> But like, do you, do you guys disagree that, like, Australians should be the overwhelming majority in their own country and then like, by definition, not using like, cuz you don't want to do it, but, but by, no, no, no, but by my definition.

>> Uh, no, I, bro, can I just say something? I understand your instinct. Just let me finish on this one.

>> Yeah.

>> I understand your instinct. Okay. I, I sometimes I feel also fond of white people and whatever you want to call it. Okay. Yeah. Fine.

>> Um, and you know, like I don't necessarily like seeing my own race disappear either. But can I just make a point here? I don't think that that part of me is the best part of me. Now, I don't want to be a [ __ ] leftist, okay, and be like, "Well, everybody's Australian." That's not the answer either. Okay. Um, but I don't think that racist part of myself is my best part. Okay. It's a little bit like I have temptations to all sorts of bad ways of thinking and behaving. What I believe at heart. Now, the reason why we have a great country is not because of whiteness or Anglo-Celticness or Europeanness or anything like that. The reason why we have a great country is because of Christianity. It just is. Okay? You won't see freedom having arisen anywhere else in the world except for in the West. Okay, European countries, you're right, white countries were, um, Christian. Okay, and they created the best legal system in the world, the greatest freedoms for people, the greatest, um, conditions to live, the, the most prosperous, richest, scientifically advanced countries. Okay? But not because they're white, because they're Christian. Now, if we turn our back on those fundamental Christian ideas of all men being created equal in the image and likeness of God, we don't end up with what we had, we end up with something more similar to what the rest of the barbaric world. Okay? The barbaric non-Christian world, genital mutilation, human sacrifice, um, cousin marriage, widowing, honor killings, widow burning, this disgusting [ __ ] slavery, all of these things that we have gradually.

>> Taken out of our culture over many, many, many thousands of years. These things existed in Ireland, too. It's not just, it's not just, um, isolated to the, um, the brown world or black world either, you know. Um, we have transcended that because of Christianity. But the fundamental idea of Christianity is that all human beings are equally created in the image and likeness of God. You can't turn your back on that and still hope to get back at back to it, back to what we had here in Australia. You end up in a dark place. So that's, that's my fundamental problem with it.

>> So, but, but this is my counterargument to it. Like.

>> Sometimes that gets weaponized against you. You literally just said again, like, we're all equal in the eyes of God, but you wouldn't want to live around a street of Sudanese people because.

>> Not everybody has a right like borders matter.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So has a right to be here. Awkward who is white and, and is sending her death threats either all the time and I get the same. I get the exact same thing and I want to live around these people as well. But like.

>> But see, I think between 1901 and 1975, whiteness was like a proxy for Christianity because the people that were coming from white parts of the world were Christian people because those countries were Christian. They brought those ethics and morality, that system of morals here. We built our value system on that. Now, now if you were to just say, let's open the world up to the white people, like to the Europeans. Um, like you saw the opening ceremony of the Olympics, we're going to get total leftists if we just, if we make it like a white thing again. I think, I think it's this is more about values, like as in, we want people here like, we Muslims are incompatible with the Australian way of life because they believe that men and women aren't equal. They believe in Sharia law.

>> Do you think we should deport them all then?

>> I, I think that what happens when someone's a citizen is it's harder to get rid of them. Right.

>> But do you think we should, but I don't think we should be having.

>> In the perfect world, do you think because it's incompatible? Now, if they're a bad Muslim, but, but a good person, like a good Aussie because they don't actually subscribe to the teachings of Islam. And remember, Muhammad was a pedophile. So, if they don't subscribe to that.

>> So they're a bad Muslim, then we probably could keep them because they, they're not really Muslim after all, right?

>> But where do you draw the line?

>> I think at the end of the day, like, one, one thing we could do straight away is to say we're not going to have immigration from, from Islam, like people that are Islamic. Like, we're going to have a, a values-based test. There should be an English language test. You should have to speak English if you live in this country.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I think we agree on that.

>> But I think the point is, like, we can't go back to white Australia policy because I know, I know that's not what you're saying, Sam. Sorry, please just listen to like.

>> No, I'm not saying go back to white Australia policy.

>> What you're saying. I'm not saying the white Australian. Getting so mad when people say, "Oh, they're misrepresenting me." But it's like, "What do you expect us to take?" Like, "What do you expect us to take from it?" Like, you say, "In order to be an Australian, you have to be white." Now, you use the word Anglo, and once again, you get so offended by that.

>> No, because I haven't said that. You're putting words in my mouth. Anglo-Celtic and or European descent without indigenous brothers and sisters.

>> What? It's euphemism, bro.

>> I never respect the left's euphemisms either.

>> Don't worry about it. Don't [ __ ] substitute. You can't even define it. You can't even define it, bro.

>> I just did 30 [ __ ] times, mate. 30 times. What's the point? No, no, no, no. You're trying to just sit here and get me to admit a word of being white. It's like.

>> Sam, are you?

>> No, YOU ARE. NO, YOU COME in here. You come in here with a [ __ ] plan.

>> No, no, no.

>> And to try and set me up. You have. You [ __ ] have.

>> Okay. If that's what you think.

>> I [ __ ] think that, mate. That's 100% what I think, Sam.

>> And I think you can't define [ __ ] Just like you couldn't even define what a woman is. You can't define something, you can't defend it. Can't define what a woman is.

>> Yeah. Go tell me. XXY female, female. Well, sausage. What is being so aggressive? What is a shame? Chill the [ __ ] out. Could we agree? Could we agree? No. No. No. Hey, let's try and question and you're like, it's just not going to get there.

>> Can we try and work this out now? Can we try and weigh this out? Okay, shut up, you two. Okay, could. Okay, so Sam.

>> Yes.

>> Let's just answer this. Am I an Australian?

>> You're an. You. No, no, no, no.

>> See, and.

>> You are an Australian citizen. I think that this is a problem that you're creating a demarcation between.

>> It's not. It is because just have the moral courage to just admit it, bro. Like, what you're talking about is racial discrimination. Like, yes, it is. Because your definition of a of an Australian is broken down on skin color.

>> All right. Is Denzel Washington an American?

>> Huh?

>> Is Denzel Washington an American?

>> He's an African-American. He originate. I'm pretty sure he calls himself an African-American, bro. So, is he an American? If someone asked you, Americans, okay, if, if you had only a yes or no answer, you're only allowed to say yes or no. And I asked you the question, is Denzel.

>> But that's. No, no, no, no, no. But you can't just throw that onto me. You can't.

>> Yes, you can because you keep on throwing things onto me and say, "What's an Australian? What's an Australian? What's an Australian?" There's no point going. We're just going to keep going around in circles here. You can't define it. I can't defend it. You can't define it. I can't defend it.

>> I reject that. But anyway, I don't think you didn't even define it. I think there's, it seems like there's a. Can we just get some common ground here that we, like, do we, do we want Australians to be the overwhelming majority in their own country and when you came in here, you found it easier to assimilate if there were so many people in here that were just of different demographics from the age of, from let's say, from 2016 to now, they are struggling to integrate into our society because they are coming in in their groups.

>> No, I agree. So I agree on all of that. The problem is is we keep on crossing lines because we're not allowed to use words like race.

>> Because if you can't define something, you can't defend it. Now, I have defined an Australian multiple times on this podcast at it. Cool. That's your opinion.

>> You haven't provided a clear definition of what your. Is your opinion. I have written this so many times on the internet and I've said it so many times here and like, if.

>> Yeah, but your definition doesn't make sense. It's low resolution.

>> No, but it does to me. It makes sense to me. I don't have to tell you any further than my definition. I've told you that, bro, so many times and it's like, you're just.

>> Show one more. No.

>> If there's 200 people, like, what's the point in going forward if, if that is my clear definition and I am moving on from it after this. It's fine. I can move on from it. People clip it up everywhere and I'll just do what I normally do. I'll sit there this afternoon and I'll talk about how Phil Thompson, my one of my good mates is in the army. We're getting all the veteran, ripped, getting all the veteran, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, budget ripped away from us and giving it all to immigrants. I'll go back to talking about that and then this, and then this issue will just move on.

>> Like I'm done with this issue after today. I came out and said something a couple of weeks ago. We've debated it. It's had good debate and it's like, okay, now we're just going to go back and attack left. That's what I'm going to do. And you're going to sit there saying he's going to stay with me. All right.

>> I'm not sure that we can. I, I actually think that there is an a moral imperative on us to to find the areas of agreement and to also try and find the truth. Right. Like I don't think any of us could be so arrogant to say that we are the 100% holder of all the truth on this. I think the problem I have with your, the problem I have with your position is that, um.

>> It allows anyone that's come from Europe or Britain or who is indigenous to get the full, the full word Australian like they on their Instagram bio, they can write, "I am Australian," but someone like me, I write, "I am Indian Australian," or my five children that were born here, we are Indian Australian. You know, like, I, I feel like this is carving things out.

>> That's what I'm, that's basically what I'm saying. I, I know that's what you're saying, and I think I'm not going to change. And I think it creates a hierarchy and it also.

>> I think it creates a hierarchy.

>> Well, it does. Like, as a little girl, as a little girl growing up, and I have to turn around to my daughter and say, "Look, you were born here. This is the only country you've ever known. You've never been to India. You've never been to any other country. You only ever speak English with an Australian accent. And if you go to the Olympics, which my old little daughter, that's her dream, you, you're representing Australia, but actually, like, when it comes down to it, your mom has brown skin and was born in India. So, you are an Indian Australian."

>> Are you not proud of that? I, I have no national pride in India. I wouldn't be proud of that at all. If, if our kids started calling themselves [ __ ] Indian Australians, I swear they'd be grounded because they're not.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, they've originated from there. It's like they've originated from here, mate. Like, this is where they were born.

>> But their mom originated from there. Their parents originate. Their mom was born in England.

>> Yeah. Dude, we're just going to keep going around circles like this because I'm going to, I'm going to have my opinions and you're going to have your opinions. At the end of the day, that's all we're going to have, dude. I'm not changing that. But.

>> I don't mind you challenging my opinions. Why do you get so tense when I challenge yours? Like, I'm just, I'm just trying to debate this. You don't have to get so, like, angry.

>> Because we like you. Like, we, I think there's things we can usefully do together as well.

>> S like, of course there is, but like, I'm going to have my opinions and you're going to have yours.

>> But okay. Well, let me, sometimes you change opinions. Like, you might change my opinion on something. Like, you would totally be successful in that, I imagine, in many fields. Okay. And I would like to think that you could be open to having your opin, opinion challenged on something too, because isn't that how we grow and move forward as people?

>> Yeah, it has been. And I've, and, and after this conversation, my opinion still is that Joanna is a great Australian citizen.

>> But she's not what I define as an ethnic Australian.

>> Okay, fine. Sure. But I think it's an incoherent position.

>> Okay, cool. And I, yeah, I respect your position to have that position on my position.

>> Okay, sweet. And so when, um, we say, like, I know you're not Scotty, but he's, he's put up recently, millions must go, deport them.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Who, who, who are you guys talking about?

>> So anyone that hasn't, uh, assimilated into our, uh, so I challenged you, Link Hill, to a debate the other day and I said that anyone that hasn't assimilated into our society. So people that haven't assimilated into our society would be a whole bunch of Indians living in one house together. Right? There's like, sometimes there's 20 of them living in one house. It's literally happening around the street of mine. I drive past it every single day. Islamic extremists don't assimilate into our society. Uh, postcode machete wars, kids running around with machetes. That's not assimilating to our society.

>> And there's probably a whole bunch of other, you know, what's the Iraqi dudes having the, the, uh, wars with the, with the smoking shops over in.

>> Over in Melbourne. That's not assimilating.

>> So we could literally get millions of people out of this country that have not assimilated. If you're talking about deporting, uh, Muslims, there's what, like 3 million people there.

>> So.

>> So that means.

>> To me, that sounds like you're deporting based on values. But they all happen to be brown, like, as in, like, you know, like, that's sort of what it, what it sounds like. Um.

>> Yeah. So that's.

>> Yeah. But then.

>> It's like. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So they, you're deporting based on values. I agree there should be a values test to come into.

>> So you're saying that there is different values with white people to.

>> I'm not, but I'm just saying that I think it's interesting, um, because, okay. So one side of the argument is deport all the people that don't, um, support our values. They all happen to be brown. Let's get rid of them.

>> I would bring people if they were bikes, like they've been deported. They can be deported back to New Zealand.

>> So then in terms of bringing people in, where are we pulling from?

>> Well, going forward.

>> Yeah.

>> Back to our Anglo-Celtic and or European origins.

>> So you're just bringing in white liberals.

>> Europeans.

>> But yeah, but, you know, think about France opening ceremony. Think about, think about Europe. Like, it's really messed up.

>> Okay. Would you rather deport from, let's say, the Middle East where there's.

>> Well, I'd rather have a Christian from Fiji than I would like a, a leftist from France.

>> I would like, I would rather just shut the gate on immigration completely and work on our birth rate.

>> No, but we're not going to do that. We're talking about if you did. Okay, so you want to have just zero immigration.

>> Yeah. Yep.

>> Okay, fine. So, well, then we like.

>> And if.

>> Why are we even having a conversation about who you bring in? Because you said that you would bring people in from Europe. So, we're only, we can only really refer to what you said.

>> Yeah. But I think.

>> So we're saying if there were a choice, um, between a leftist from France or a say, Christian from Fiji or whatever.

>> If Australians are the overwhelming majority in their country, I would take either.

>> But I think what I would define as an Australian.

>> Do you sort of understand what I'm saying there, like, when we're the overwhelming majority, we can be very, very picky on who we want to come into this country. We can get the absolute best. And I've said before, you know, Ronald, the guy from SPS, the perfect immigrant.

>> That have come here, assimilated to our society, and he speaks Australian, his is Australian, but he has still come from a like, he has still come or still originated from India. Now, he comes here, assimilates perfectly. But I said in a real, the fantastic thing about Ronald was he came in under the right circumstances with Australia when Australians were the overwhelming majority. The problem is with people coming in at the moment, we aren't the overwhelming majority in our own country.

>> We don't even have an expectation that you assimilate. We don't even have an expectation that you learn the language. We don't have an expectation that you move beyond your little ghetto of the people that are from the country that you origin majority a long time ago.

>> I think we can anymore. We can agree with all of that. I think the point where we depart is when you label me as not really an Australian because I'm an Australian citizen, but I'm not Australian like you. I, I'm going to be honest with you, Sam. As a little girl growing up, like, that's what my daughter hears and little girls in the country hear. Like, that's really [ __ ] like that really. I, I, that is.

>> I'm sorry, but my position ain't going to change.

>> No, but it's, it's just like.

>> But you're just annoying.

>> So I can have the same accent as you. I can contribute more than you [ __ ] do. I can, you know, all of it. I can have more.

children than you do. So I'm helping the country grow and you're not. You've got one. I've got five. You know all of that. Yeah, all of that.

Uh, I can even marry a white guy, but I'm never going to be Australian Australian like you. I'm always going to be Indian Australian, which is something less than Australian Australian.

It's not something less.

Well, what is it then? We're just said that we're all equal in the eyes of God, but it's nothing less.

So, you're just you're just from a different background than my, but my background were the ones that built the nation.

That's I can acknowledge that. Like, I know that I know that. And then that's the part where we look at each other where it's like, okay, well then maybe I am Australian, but what you're saying is that's the part but what you're saying is not even true. I'm not like Sam, what you're saying is not even true because white people didn't build Australia. British people built Australia. Germans didn't do [ __ ].

Anglo Celtics.

People from Europe. You said that you're just it's white, man. What you're talking about is white. She's brown. And it's really that simple. It's just like it's so skinde. It's no different to the leftist definition of woman. Oh, does she look like a woman? Does she got a dick cut off? Like, does she have long hair? Maybe she's had a surgery to get rid of Adam's apple. So, she just sort of looks like a woman. Let's just call her racist.

Do you think I'm a racist?

Yes, but I'm not judging you for it. It's okay. Like, you can be a racist. Like, I've got lots of flaws, too.

Okay. So, do you So, so do you think,

Dude? Discriminating against people on the on account their race is the definition of racism.

Then I would sit down with her with a one-on-one in my and and actually change my uh you actually changed my opinion on abortion. I I think you would like to teach because I'm not saying you're a bad person. Yes. But I'm not saying you're a bad person.

I mean, okay, then if people think that I'm a racist because I've got that opinion, then that's fine. But I'm not saying you're a bad racism. Racism gets like racism these days is like seen as the capital crime. I don't see it that way. I just think everyone racism and and bigotry from like for the last decade on us like

Exactly. But not everything that the left says is wrong. Okay. There is such a thing as racism. It does exist.

What's the what's what's your definition of racism?

Uh judging someone upon the difference of their skin.

Yeah.

But I'm not judging you upon the difference of your skin. I'm judging her as being not Australian because of her skin color.

I'm judging you upon where you came from. That's not judging you upon your color of your skin. It's judging you from your origin.

But it just so happens that the people that you allow to be Australian are the people from the white parts of the world.

So who are the people that built this country? Our Angloeltic British British people. Okay. So the British people came here. They settled in 1901. They they they formed Australia, the Australian government, and they gave us our identity of who we are and what we look like. It's like, guys, how are we moving away from that?

Look like he's irrelevant. That's the same as the what is a woman question. If it looks like a woman, then it's a woman. But that's [ __ ] mate. Like, if you if I present to you like a guy from the Czech Republic, both of his parents are from Czech Republic. He's like third generation living here in Australia. Never hasn't got any British blood in him at all. You'll say that's an Australian based on what he looks like. But it's skin deep, mate. is the same as the leftist definition of a woman.

Okay. So if we like I said before then if we had a whole bunch of people come here from India and then they were just living here and assimilating then they're all just Australian.

Why do you have to go with a whole bunch? Why don't we just go one person?

Because we were the over because because that means we were the overwhelming majority in our own country. If they come here that's fine but we need to ensure that we are defining what that massive bunch is, what that overall majority is. If we can't define the overall majority then what are we? Are we Australia? Are we not?

Uh well look the argument then like like sorry to jump in. This is this is the argument like

Look let me just let me just can I just say something like just just briefly. So

A whole bunch is kind of it it confuses them. Yeah. Yeah. Majority but we're not talking about that. We're talking purely you could just say one person because really when we're talking about her it's just one person. She's she's not like your overwhelm like massive influx of Indians. She speaks with an Australian accent. She's got an Australian name, whatever. She's married to But like in in the Northern Territory, there's a lot of people who are Chinese. They've been there for for many generations. Um half of them like a lot of them are half Aboriginal, but like a lot of them are still just like Chinese looking people, but they speak with broad Aussie accents. They all work.

So they're half Aboriginal, half Chinese.

Not all. Some are half but but but let's say they descend from half Chinese half a

Well, let's just say there's there's also a few who have no Aboriginal just like

You've literally just said they have

Some you literally said Chinese people

Just let me finish okay so a bunch of Yeah, exactly so a bunch of like what you would refer to as Chinese people but I would call them Australians would you call them Australians or

I would call them half Chinese half indigenous Australians

No, okay. So, but

That's where they came from bro but but they've been living up there for um generations, right? Um so and and I'm I'm going to ask you now. You just you just you you're you're the expert on how to define an Australian. You give me a yes or no answer. Are they Australian?

Half Australian, half Chinese. No. If you have a really good definition, which you claim to have, you should be able to say yes. They fall into that half Australian category because I could be because I I say Australian.

A man who transitions into a woman, is he a woman?

Of course not.

See, there's a clear no. Okay. Is this person an Australian?

Half Australian.

Yes. No. You don't have a good definition. You think you got a great definition.

Half. Oh, no. No. No. Because a little bit different.

Yeah. It's no different. Same [ __ ] thing. It's just as woke as the left. I'm sorry.

Okay. That just cool cuz that's that that's fine. And you can have your opinion.

You insist on euphemisms. You can't give answers. You got a garble definition. And you say that I've got no idea.

Dude, you can't even define an Australian. So,

Neither can you. I I mean, I do

As I ask you a yes or no question you got no answer. So

So many times I have defined Australian and I'm just not equally like there is like there is there there okay whatever dude that's your opinion like so many times and you keep having these low shots it's like all right whatever.

I don't think it's a low shot.

Yes it is.

No just cuz it makes you feel uncomfortable doesn't make it a low shot.

Oh well no 100%. So many times you've done that.

No I disagree.

Okay. Well then I disagree that you can't even define what a woman is. I really wonder what people are I wonder what people are going to think of this in the comments. I think

Yeah, but that's the thing though. I'm sure James is such a fantastic man. I'm sure he is. You told

I like both of you, but I but I think, you know, um

I just I don't think you're a bad person in any way, shape, or form. I just think you're wrong on this issue. That's all.

Yeah, that's fine. And I And I like I just

And I think you're wrong on this issue. That's

And that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm not going to just sit here and not argue about it. Like, we're going to debate it, right?

Of course we are. That's what I think it's fair to try and get to the truth.

Yeah. Well, and my truth is my truth.

The truth. Don't say that. Don't say that because there's objective truth. There's objective truth.

No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Okay. There might be objective truth, but you're not going to change me on this. This is this is my position. If

Were you against the voice department?

What's that?

Were you against the voice department?

Um, no. No. No. No. So, during this whole time, I I would never I didn't even care about it. I wasn't even really interested.

But are you now the concept of having an indigenous body that speaks into the parliament? Are you against that?

Yeah. No, they can't have that. And the reason we can't have that is because we are Australian. We are all one people. We are Anglo Celtic and or European descent indigenous Australians. There shouldn't be one of that just representing the voice of parliament. If if if what I categorize Australian or Australian so why should there be your definition just like the voice divided Australians based on race. I think your definition divides Australian based on race and excludes people like me. And so I think that's the problem we have. We have a disagreement around this but I think we can still work together. I think we can still Of course, we need to model to the left how you need to defeat We need to defeat the left.

I I agree. And I think we have to model to the left because we're not able to do this in Australia anymore. We're not able to fight and disagree and yell at each other and then still work together to defeat evil. Okay. And so I I think my problem with your position is it it is essentially the same problem of the voice. It divides Australians based on race. Um, and

But it doesn't know because I don't

It does because it says it does because it says that someone isn't I don't want you like I like I don't want you deported. You're about to bring in more Australian kids into this country.

I know that Sam, but I think that by calling me I can acknowledge that my heritage is from India and Portugal. I can acknowledge that my skin color is brown, but in my book I'm just as Australian as you. And I think your failure to say that I am is to me that's it's problematic but I can we can still be friends and work together. There's things we can still do.

And this is and this is my point coming from a military background. If we cannot clearly define something, if we don't have the clear rules of engagement before I go out and kill some Taliban dudes about who we can shoot, who we can't shoot, and what we need to do if we get ambushed, what we need to do if someone tries to come and kill us, what are our orders of opening fire? What are our rules of engagement? If we don't understand and clearly define what we can defend, then what's the point?

If if I can't define

Anything to do with Australia or an Australian, then we can't defend that. And that's that's my position. And I get it. I I get it. Like I get that's important. I think my definition of Australian would be I again I haven't thought about it to the extent that perhaps other people have, but it'd be broader than broader than yours. So it'd be something to do with um being potent being born here plus citizenship plus integration and so

Well, this is something those are three attributes that so I have like as in I I wasn't born here but I immigrated here but I am integrated and assimilated. I think there has to be some sort of like three circles and they coales onto that and my children born here um committed to here represent here assimilated to here, you know, like I think I think we have to allow space and place for people like me in this definition otherwise I I I I think we we end down a murky pathway that doesn't quite work.

I think you're so like cuz you could admit your heritage is coming from there. So maybe there's a thing where we can say heritage. Yeah, I think I prefer that to the hyphenated Indian Australian. I I would prefer to say I am Australian. Um I would prefer to just say I am Australian like

Cuz you know how so so but but this is where like I guess we've been

I believe it's been weaponized against us over the last and would would everyone agree like even me even you and me would agree that anyone coming into the country they are just they are just calling them Australian and that and and so right now that's being weapon hold and and that's being weaponized against us right now.

So like white people That's the other thing. White people are being [ __ ] demonized in this country and and people might be watching this and sitting there going, "Wow, that guy's really like woke or something." Like, nothing could be further from the truth. I [ __ ] hate the left. I hate the demonization of white people. I think it's absolutely disgusting. It's demonic. It's despicable. I have absolutely no part with it. Okay? And it's and it's false. It's a false narrative.

Anglo Celtic, mate.

Anglo Celtic. That was a joke. Yeah, that was a joke.

No, I wasn't No, I wasn't going to No, no, I wasn't going to I wasn't going to start on that again. I was going to say Angloeltic people have done more for the world, I would say, than any other [ __ ] race. They ended slavery. Um they they created democracy. They brought um they brought uh science into the world.

Do you think the further we moved away from that as Australia, the worse we become as a country?

Uh potentially, but not because of race, because of values. Man, I think that it just so happened.

So, would you agree with me that we need to be the over the Anglo Celtics need to be the overwhelming majority?

Absolutely not. Because you don't have to be [ __ ] Angloeltic to be a good like to be a Christian person and to have embraced those values that came from the west.

Do you think that as Angloeltics get phased out in Australia that we will lose our values that built this country?

No, because I don't think that I don't think that values attached to race because you see it's not about race, man. Like this is the thing. If we bring in too many people from outside Australia, then we completely change, right?

Yeah. But if you bring in idiots from European countries, you completely change, too. It's not about race. Like, look at her. She's She's like the best freaking person I know, and she's doing like so much good stuff.

100%.

And And it's got nothing to do with her [ __ ] skin color. She's

It's cuz I'm Christian.

Yeah, she's brown. But ultimately, it's because she has good value.

But yeah, but like I said before and I go back, you came in when Australians were the overwhelming majority. And like I'm not saying that you have

No, but no, no, but stop with the overwhelming because we are breaking things down on whatever you want to call it race ethnic talking about stop talking about mass immigration cuz we agree with that. We agree on all of that.

I think this really how do we save the country? I would not be so so I would not be um like I would not be in a position where like I wouldn't be saying anything if if we had a birth rate that wasn't we weren't importing two to three migrants free birth in this country like and like where are we mostly importing people from? It's not really that European.

We're bringing people in from the third world they're bringing their third world [ __ ] into this country I couldn't [ __ ] agree with you more.

This is where the basic and my point is

You guys are so funny cuz there's like all these lovehate moments where like you like hate each other and you're about I think we're on the same page, but it's like but we 100% are on the same page. There's just this one small there's this one small definition and the like the point of this thing is save the country Sam. It's I think that we need to get back to like it was

Shut the gate remigrate the illegals and then get our birth.

It was Christians that built this country. It was Christians that built this country and it's Christians that will save this country that because ultimately our belief in equal dignity, equality, human rights in current human beings, where does it come from? It comes from God. It comes from the Christian view of God. It doesn't come from Muhammad who didn't think, you know, who said that women can be like sex slaves if you like what is, you know, all that disgusting [ __ ] that's in in there, you know, like it doesn't come from any other worldview other than the Christian worldview. And so I know you want to save the country. I know James does. I know I do. But the answer isn't isn't trying to get back to what we once had because the world has changed. Like we can get back there.

No, but unfortunately like if you were to go to Europe now and

We could deport a few million people.

We could deport people without the

Yeah, but but but in order to get back to

I mean, there's four there's 4 million Muslims that you said

In order to get back to what she's describing though, we're talking about whiteness. Okay. So in order to get back to that, you'd have to deport every brown person.

No, I'm not saying that.

Yeah. No, I know you're not saying that, but I'm just saying like if we want to have a conversation about this,

How do we save this country?

It can't be about race because race and culture don't always attach. Now, what you're noticing is a correlation and that is true. Okay? So, like a lot of people from the third world who have brown skin also don't bring a Christian culture. Okay? But that's not but that's but I think that's coincidental. Okay? That those two things are not intrinsically tied. Okay? Now, it just so happens that Christianity developed in the west in Europe. Um, but a lot of Europe now is actually really moving away from that. And what you're seeing is like a rise in that barbaric culture again. So, like people killing their babies right up until birth. Um, you know, um, euthanizing first starting with the elderly who who have terminal illnesses, but now moving into like teenagers who are struggling with depression. You know what I mean? you're seeing that barbaric culture starting to reemerge and some um some brown countries are actually becoming very um very Christian and are actually showing um values that are much more consistent with what we saw in early Australia. So I'm saying like values and culture are not intrinsically connected. Now they are co coincidental. They do coincide with each other. Um, but the idea race aren't in values and race. Right. So, um, now my belief is that race is is is skin deep, just like a transitioned woman is skin deep, quote unquote woman. Okay? It's not a real woman. I think that, um, culture and race are not are not connected. I think that race is is um is is just skin deep. At heart, we're all human beings made in the image and likeness of God. You know what I mean?

And I don't think race has anything to do with it.

Yeah. But culture does.

Yeah. But culture and race are not the same thing though.

Okay. So, culture and race aren't the same thing.

Mhm.

Yeah. I don't think they are. Look, let's look at her, right? She has race. Brown race.

Yeah. But what did she grow up around?

Yeah. She grew up here. That's what But that's my point.

The culture. My culture is an Australian culture, like a Christian culture.

Yeah.

And but my race might be like a heritage from India.

Yeah. Yeah. So, like how was that culture formed? How was that culture? How did you fit into that culture?

Well, I only ever knew the Australian culture.

You grew up in that culture.

Yeah.

And what was that Australian culture built off?

It was based on Christian values.

Angloeltic and or European descent people that built this country. That's what it was built off.

But nowadays those countries like the Europe and Britain are why do you keep saying Anglo Celtic like it's got nothing to do with their [ __ ] race. It's to do with their culture and their religion that they brought over here. like that could it could just as easily have been like um like brown people.

We would be a lot different if uh if like say the Japanese came over here or say the Indians came over here. We would be

Talking about that countries and they

Imagine if

Then Australia would not be Australia. I'm sorry.

But if they were this is my so like no no but we would not be this Australia that we love. No way. We would

We'd be a different Australia that we love though.

We would be a Japanese Australia or like not Japanese as in

But what I'm saying is

But why does it matter so much what people look like

Because that's their cultural background that's who they are

So what

Australians are generally like on the world stage what do you what do you expect to look at as an as an Australian like say if we were just to pluck one random person out what does that get

But but well it these days who knows mate

Exactly right and like where are we going now so like this Australia that we're moving into saying who knows it's like I don't like But it's dangerous. Why does it matter?

Because we are moving into a place where the young generation getting priced out of the housing market. We're moving into place where there are post machete wars. We're moving into a place where there is Islamic extremists at every single racist. I know. But that's what I'm trying to say. The more these people come in from different cultures and different races, they are changing our culture that was built off our origins who are the first thing you said is right. The more people come in from different cultures, yes, they are changing, but the more people come in from different races, I don't think that that does change us for the world.

Race is culture.

No, race and ce here's the problem. That is that is a statement that just perfectly sums up I think the problem that you have because I I disagree like race and culture are not the same thing.

Because I'm my my my race you would say is Indian but my culture is Australian. Um I don't know anything about Indian culture. I wasn't raised you know maybe if my maybe if my dad had lived because he was more into that more into I'm from Goa in India and and he was part of the Goan Association and so maybe but but he died when I was four and a half like six months into coming here. So really I was raised with an Australian culture. So my culture is Australian. My race my heritage might be Indian. Um I would say I'm Australian. Uh I I I think that Yeah. I mean these are we probably have to go pick up the kids soon, but these these are big um I I think that's where the disagreement is.

Yeah. And that's like and that's fine. But there's like like I said as well like I'm I'm literally just going to move on and then go to talking about other stuff cuz I'm over it and um that's my position. My position isn't going to change. Do I think that Australian citizens are any less than your ethnic Australians? No. Look what you've been able to do. I don't think you're any less than me. I don't think there's any difference. But I just think one is a ethnic Australian and other is a great Australian citizen. That's my that is just my opinion and I don't know why like like why we can't coexist on being a

On the right side of politics about this. Like clearly we can I mean you guys are you you guys are very levelheaded about this. Like we all agree on 99% of stuff except this. I just don't know why we can't fight the same fight with me having my beliefs and you guys having your beliefs. Well, because it's fundamentally they're they're fundamentally in opposition, I think, at the end of the day. I I don't think it is one of those things that we can just coexist on. Like because ultimately what you're describing here is like a is a method of racial discrimination and like either we're fighting conservatively for like you say how clear it is to define the vision and I couldn't agree more but the division the the vision for me is that we fight for conservative values and the conservative value that I see as being important is one of our Christian origin of this country. It's not of racial purity.

I think conservative values has got this country to where it is.

And that's right. I think we need I think we need a more nationalist approach.

You don't think that we should be you don't think that we should um

We should be looking to what make this like what made this country great in the first place

Which was nationalism.

No, but it wasn't whiteness. It was it was our Christian values. That's what made this country great. It was not whiteness. I think I think that you're I think these Christian values are going to get and like I agree, you know, I've been having my own experiences over the past uh 6 months about my relationship with Jesus and um still working on that sort of stuff. But I think sometimes that can be taken advantage of, you know, and these Christian values of yeah, we need to X Y and Z. I don't really know too much about it, right? But like trying trying to learn it, but like I think these things can be from just a very um broad perspective. I think they can be taken advantage of.

Like a toxic empathy type thing.

Yeah. Like a suicidal empathy type thing. Like being like, "Oh, we need to be uh Christian, you know, like that would just fix everything." When in reality, sometimes you need to pick up that sword and be the knight to fight for Christian.

Well, that's what I'm doing for the babies. Like,

Yeah, I understand. But no, but if you're picking up the sword outside of Christian values, then you're picking it up in a way that takes you into a dark and barbaric place because the whole world is dark and barbaric except for the Christian world.

And we need and we need to protect oursel from that. So like

No, but then you become that in order to protect yourself from that.

No, but you guys are literally sitting here saying that we need to deport all Muslims

Because they're anothetical to I don't know about that one. I don't know if I'm I don't know if I'm arguing for deporting all Muslims now. I don't know. Once again, you're going to hate me for saying this. Um, but I don't know if I I don't know what exactly my position on Islam is. I don't think it's compatible with Australian culture. Should you be free to practice your religion in Australia? I would say yes. I think there might be an exception for Islam because I think it's such a horrific religion and it teaches great evil. And so I but at the same time um I don't know if I'm in on board with just going around rounding up all the Muslims and throwing them out of the country. You know what I mean? Now that being said, I don't think that we should be importing people from the Islamic world. I think that I think it's kind of suicidal. Okay, to be fair. Now um now now like yeah, but but I do think that if we don't if we don't proceed in the same manner that made Australia great in the first place which was not by being white but was bringing Christian values and the benefits that have come from that to this country then we end up in a dark place because that's where we've come from. We've come from a dark place prior to that. Who are the majority of people that hold Christian values?

Which country in the world at the moment?

No. Well, I would just say like from the early 1900s to early 1950s, who were the most point it was the West, but now I know it's not now, but it doesn't mean we can can't protect what we have to be able to cherish and go forward with that. Do you know what I mean?

No, no, but you're not talking about you're talking about going against Christian values by by embracing whiteness and rejecting Christianity. Do you understand that? Cuz Christianity Christianity requires you to accept all people as being

No, no, no. I'm saying who were the people that come here to So the people that came here that were Christian, were they of that origin that I've been speaking about of those Australian people?

They were from Christian backgrounds. Yeah.

Yeah. So they were from what I was pretty much saying what an Australian is. The people that came here that built this country of those values.

So isn't that what we should be aiming for? Um well no because race and religion and values are not intrinsically connected. So I think that we should be aiming for um for Christianity like well yeah Christianity basically when we're talking if we're talking about migration.

Okay. So if we had so if we had 30 million Indians rock up tomorrow and they all Christians would be fine.

I think. No. What why do you always say 30 million? I wouldn't want 30 million people from [ __ ] anywhere, including England.

If we only just had people that were rocking up and doesn't matter based on their cultural background or that and they were Christians, everything would be fine.

Uh, all right. So, well, yeah, sure. Let's do this hypothetical. So, let's just say you want to bring in 10,000 people um and I've got a choice between like 10,000 um random um people.

Oh, yeah. Sorry. Go on. Sorry.

Yeah. Let's just say we had a choice between like 10,000 um people from um France, you know what I mean? Or 10,000 um Christian people from India. I would probably ch if they if they really did have the same sort of Christian values as the people who built this country in the first place. I would choose those.

Which ones?

The the Christian people from India.

Yeah. Over over what? Sorry.

Over just like just a bunch of randoms from France who are likely to bring [ __ ] up woke ideas into this country. I don't we don't need more of that [ __ ] Take the Indians.

I'd rather be. So can can we have this debate of

Would you like cuz I just want to see immigration shut down completely. I like I I want a 5year pause.

And I think a lot of people pushing this. I want to remigrate the ones that haven't integrated with society and there would be let's this is their millions must go when there is literally millions of people that haven't integrated with our society there would be millions there are literally post codes where there are just different cultures that's not I don't believe I don't buy this multicultural [ __ ] I just don't neither

Do we think one Australian culture

Don't yeah so like I think there would be millions of people that would actually over a 4 to 5 year period you go okay you guys have 5 years to go remigrate back to where you were then you obviously deport the illegals and get rid of um anyone that's overstayed their visa,

Right? But like I would just love to see our government and this is a lot of people say this is going to fail, but like I think we need to at least try and then if we failed then we can go this multicultural avenue cuz we're not having babies. But just putting all our resources into the next generation to have kids like wouldn't we want a birth rate of 3.5 in this country?

Yeah, we should I mean we should create a like Hungary has a pro family pronatalist approach. Like we should have a pro family approach. So like

I wouldn't but I would say if we're not increasing the birth rate significantly, I don't think the answer is then to turn back to multiculturalism. It's failed. This idea that you bring people from all over the parts of the world and have no expectation that they would assimilate, but that all the cultures would coexist, that doesn't work. So we never go back there. We can't go back there. I think I I do think that um

There has to be an expectation that if you're in Australia, you integrate, you assimilate, you learn the English language, you you know that that's got to be um

Yeah. And and like renounce your previous affiliations. Like when my when my grandpa came in, he forced all his kids to speak English in the [ __ ] house even though they were Dutch speaking

Because he said we're in Australia now, mate.

Yeah. And like I just go back to my point that all happened because they were the we Australians were the overwhelming majority in our own country. Like that's that's my argument here.

Like I'm just seeing my country that I went and fought for against them [ __ ] retards, the Taliban. I'm seeing it forever change from when I did fight for it in 2012. I came back here and it's changing and I don't like the change. I don't think the change

We're all on the same page.

Yeah. But what I see about the change with my eyes is the demographics changing.

Yeah. But that's because I don't think you're thinking about it deeply enough. You're just looking at what you see on the superficial surface.

I know. But what I see and what I touch is real.

Because it's more than just the fact.

You know what I mean? Like like

Yeah. I I get it. Like I get it. Like and as a white guy, I like white people too. But but sometimes you can't just go on what your initial instinct is because m mate I think we're like tribal at at heart. You know what I mean? But I don't think that's the better part of who we are. It's the same as like

But sometimes we're going to have to be brutal to fix this country, bro.

No, I disagree because I think then you become brutal and you just become the next [ __ ] you still got to be moral. No,

We're in weak times where they're creating hard men. We need hard men to then create. You don't want evil men. You want hard men. Evil is evil. It's not evil. Discriminating against people on account of their skin color is evil, bro.

Dude, I've pretty much come out and said she is a great Australian citizen, but there is the difference between ethnic Australian and an Australian citizen. Like, like I'm like that's like if people call me evil for that, I'm very happy to be called evil.

You just a straw man for the position. I didn't say ethnic Australian. I just said Australian.

Okay. Australian and Yeah. Yeah. So, Australian and then Australian citizen,

Right?

Like,

Yeah. I think I think that we need

Dude, we're not going to like we're not going to change each other.

Maybe not today, but I think that we need to have a more in my view a more sophisticated definition would be to say that there's assimilation and integration. You're either born here or you've come here and and that's what makes you Australian. Can we just agree anything over like what like what the past like 15 15 years that they just haven't assimilated because we're now getting

But you can't even speak as as broadly as that Sam because there would be some like it's not a group right like there'd be some that have come that have assimilated so I I yeah, but they probably did assimilate when when potentially they were going to neighborhoods when Australians were

We have we work at Peter Tekker so sorry we got a pizza an Italian restaurant in Adelaide and there's a beautiful girl there who's come from where's she come from Spain or Italy. Italy. And um but you know, like she's working hard. She's contributing. She's just got her permanent residency. Um she's warm and open. Uh you know, I I I feel like there are people that have come even more recently that are trying to assimilate. And I but I but I think that um I I think like just like Jordan Peterson talks about the fact that we've raised young men in this environment where they they're being raised as little girls. um that like the education system, the deck, everything is stacked against them. They've been told that they're the cause of all the problems in the world.

But the solution to the fact that we live currently in a culture like where all the institutions are run by woke leftists and and and all of it kind of stacked against us isn't necessarily to say like isn't necessarily to say we're going to divide Australians based on on this like that we have to go back to this. I think we can acknowledge our Angloeltic heritage and the fact that these Brits came and they built our democratic institutions that we have today without saying that the route back there is only to have people from Anglo Celtic countries. Like I think what really made us great was was the contribution of Christians and it will be Christians that save this country. That that's what I think.

But you so you seem to follow someone like Pauline Hansen. She said in early days there's too many Asians and whatever coming.

Yeah.

Like would you would you agree with that? I I think there can be a point where yeah, there's just too many people coming and so if you've got too many Asians or too many Indians, you're going to change the the nature of the country if they don't have the values that we have which are Christian values. That's my argument because what Pauline said was

Because who was the majority in the country when these people

But what Pauline was talking about was the fact that they didn't integrate or assimilate. You know, she has no problem with

Yeah. No. And and the reason they couldn't assimilate because Australians were the overwhelming majority in their own country back then. That's this is my argument. But but back in 19967 when she was talking about this,

We were the overwhelming majority.

But that she still had a problem with the lack of assimilation, right? Because that's the issue.

Yeah. Massively.

I would say that's the issue. And I would say it's that the migration program is out of control. And I would say that it's that our country's been run by work leftists, you know, media, universities, all of it.

It's been like that since 2010. So I think there's a lot of agreement there. I think there is this point of disagreement around race and culture. Um, but I also think that um what we've demonstrated today is is how to have this conversation. U I always knew it would get fiery between you two when I said can I

A little bit a little bit angry, but

I wonder what people are going to make of I knew that when you two met like you you're going to be great mates but you're also going to also get like probably end up want to punch each other.

Yeah. But yeah, but that's fine. Like dude, if me and him can't sit here and and have a crack at each other and then we can't sit down and calm ourselves down and then have a chat about it and who the [ __ ] are we?

Yeah,

I agree.

Yeah. And like at the end of the day, you do have to just hash this [ __ ] out like men. You know what I mean? Like you might as well just [ __ ] sit down and say it to each other's faces and hash the issue out and try and get to the bottom of it. And I think that that's actually um we need more of that, not less, you know?

Um so

I thank you for sitting there and letting me uh hurl you without uh slapping me in the face. I actually do.

It's like um same same goes in reverse.

Yeah, I could see you getting a bit angry and I was like, "Oh [ __ ]

I think I think he's a foot taller than me." Yeah, but you're a um you're a trained soldier, mate. So, uh

No, mate. I'm when it comes to when it comes to fighting, I'm terrible. When it comes to shooting people, I'm

So there's no guns here. Don't worry.

Yeah. All right. All right.

So, James will probably win that in that context here.

But no, I guess um I guess uh yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm I'm I'm probably you probably know I'm pretty stubborn

Of of what I am and what I think.

Started to hear you thinking about Jesus.

Yeah. Yeah. That happened uh after Charlie died.

Yeah.

And I had a thousand people message me

And be like, "I just want to let you know I'm praying for you." And then I uh every every few days someone will send me something about like via email. I don't really open my message request via email. They'll send me something about some script or verse and they're like, "This is you."

And I don't know. They just keep

Pushing me down somewhere thinking

It's good.

You know what I mean? Have you tried praying yet?

No. You should.

Yeah,

Just just try.

Yeah. I don't know. It's there. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows what's happening?

But yeah.

Um any final thoughts?

Um yeah. Well, just briefly on that subject, I'll tell you what's there. God, man. Like Jesus, just pray to Jesus and just sort of um say good day one day and just sort of um say his name and just uh see what happens. I think it's worth it. Um, but yeah, also in terms of um, final thoughts, no man, I'm glad that you had us around. Thanks for having that. It shows a lot of courage, I think, especially given how naughty this subject is, and I know you've been coping a lot of flack. Um, and it's always wild when everything kicks off on the internet. So, I commend your courage in having us here, and we really do appreciate the time. So, thanks.

You're welcome. And I I appreciated that you had me on the first time and now second time to speak about the abortion issue. I feel like we can do business. I feel like it's interesting that in Adelaide like all of these people are being assembled. People like yourselves or people like Alex Antic as well. Like things are happening here that I I and you know for the first time we now could pass a pro-life bill in the South Australian parliament. This is exciting. And I guess my only anxiety after seeing everything blow up about me on X on the weekend was just that I don't want us to splinter. I want us to find a way to work together.

Yeah, of course.

Because the real evil uh is the left and and we we have to remove Albanese in 2028.

Yeah. Like I said before, I'm literally just going to put this up and um I'm going to my definition is staying my definition. I'm sorry if that offends, but I'm just something's not going to change that. Um, so my definition is mine. I'm just going to move on tomorrow and that's and then if we but like

Yeah. No, it's good.

It's just it's it's you know maybe maybe maybe my some of my outburst today was the culminating point of um you know my mom calling me up and being like why are they calling you a racist on the ABC? You know why are they doing this? And I had my uncle calling me up and sending me a thing of being like

Uh I can't even remember what they said. It was pretty vile.

Well, don't believe anything in the ABC.

No. The amount of hit pieces that have been written about us.

Yeah, but I guess maybe that was just a just a

A trigger point.

Yeah, maybe. And I just unleashed on you.

Sorry for unleashing on you.

Not at all, mate. I I unleashed on you as well. Um

Good.

And I think Yeah, I think Yeah, I feel I feel zero like animosity towards you, honestly. Yeah, I just appreciate the chance to be here and and hash this out. Um, and yeah, it's been really good to really good to hang out. And honestly, I'll tell you this as well. We work with people who have all sorts of ideas that are different to us. You know what I mean? Like Pauline Hansen is totally chill with most abortion.

She's like, she's against late term and but we still work with her because, you know, we want to work. We just have to find a way to work with people. Yeah.

I think she might be coming closer, James. I think she might.

We like Pauline. She comes around to our house for dinner. We've had her around like two or three times now.

Yeah. And we feel like yeah, you know, um that's important that we should we should probably have dinner together.

Yeah. Yeah. But like yeah, I just feel like this subject over the past two weeks has literally people have trying to be forced or people people trying to force it upon me that I am I don't like someone because of the color of their skin. Now someone might say you like you might say that my views are racist. That's okay. But I'm not I'm not like racist towards someone. And like if someone thinks my views like are racist, then like I'm I'm happy with that. I really don't care. But I know personally I'm not. But people are trying to put me out as a racist.

But I just think and it might be my military background and my

Fighting self thinks that if I can't define it, then I can't defend it. And that's that's my argument of going forward. And look, if that labels me to whatever it is, then then that's fine.

But it doesn't mean we can't fight for the same things. It doesn't mean that we can't fight to, you know, drastically reduce immigration to look at where we're immigrating from to ensure that the people coming in are 100% assimilating to our society.

It's just we have a little bit of a different version of

I wouldn't mind working together to improve the definition. Of course, we can would like to kind of over time do this again. We do have to go get the cube. guys are always welcome back on this podcast. You know that as well.

Yeah. No, I mean I think it was good. We should have one of these fights every week.

Maybe not. Maybe my wife's just like uh the baby's trying to sleep. But anyway, guys, um

James and Joanna, thank you very much for your time. James, thank you for uh

Uh I don't know. I actually think it's going to be start of a friendship.

I hope so. I hope so.

All right. Thanks. Thanks for listening to Two Worlds Collide podcast. If you guys enjoyed the episode or you just enjoy what I do in general, then you can head to my website link is in the description where you can buy some merch or jump on my Patreon program. What's your thoughts?