Transcription
Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the episode of Coffee is for Closers. Myself and Kaden today. And in this episode, we're going to teach you about if you're looking to change industries, if you're one of those people who's a little bit sick and tired of what you're selling because it's either like up and down, super, you know, all over the shop and you're looking at maybe transitioning to something like insurance, this is going to be a great episode for you. We're going to be going through some of the pitfalls and just some of the things you need to bear in mind, both positives and some of the negatives of making a transition into something like insurance.
>> How's the family, Kaden?
>> Family is good. The family is good. Staying busy. Everybody's healthy. Nothing more to ask for.
>> Exactly. All you need is just I'm just a simple man. I just want a couple billion dollars and a healthy family.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> That's all I want.
>> That's all I want. That's all I need. That's all.
>> Simple man with simple needs, right? Um Yeah. All righty. So now you you sort of um I I sort of understand both industries and that you understand both industries as well. And I think there's a lot of people who sell all different types of stuff whether who watch this whether it's home services or you know doortodoor or whatever. So let's talk about I guess like what and and and and I want to preface this guys like if if you're watching this this is to have an understanding as to like you know and you can make an assessment as to whether or not selling high ticket or selling doortodoor or selling whatever it is is right for you. But this is a good opportunity to kind of see, I guess, like what are the pros and cons of selling something like insurance because I think it's always like it's always something I think a lot of sales reps think about, you know, they're always like, "Oh, I've gone over there." And I recommend it highly for some and I definitely don't recommend it for others.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? Just kind of depending where they're at, right? Yeah.
>> And that's not even
>> Yeah. Exactly. You know what I mean? So So what what sort of drew you to it?
>> Well, what what drew me to it was the stability. um the stability and the fact that there's not really a ceiling like you you can get you can get you can be somewhat of an entrepreneur and get entrepreneur like returns.
>> Okay. um
>> you know where you like like you don't have to come up with the product, like the product is already there and it's a product that's needed and needed by pretty much everybody and so you have a really really good product, but you still have the the freedom to kind of create a business around it.
>> you know I never actually thought of it like that because I think I think I've said before to to you but one of the issues with high ticket is that a lot of the guys are like uh they're entrepreneurs but not entrepreneurs. They're entrepreneurs that don't want to take the risk, you know what I mean? And so that's where and that's where a lot of that sort of offer hopping comes from.
>> you know? Um but I think that's a really good point because essentially you you can control your own marketing,
>> right? Like you can do your own marketing, get your own marketing company, you can do your own stuff to sort of generate that fully. Uh but but also you don't have to worry about the fulfillment in any way, shape, or form because it's taken care of by the insurance companies themselves.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So you have a good product to sell, no fulfillment. And but you can create you you can control pretty much everything else.
>> Yeah. I don't think people realize because I've heard people say like, you know, oh insurance is like a [ __ ] pyramid scheme and stuff like that. I don't think people how insurance works. um y you know what I mean and the reason why you can get a 60 to 80% commission like it doesn't make any sense and why people get their stuff but I think once you actually understand the logistics and like the math it the math maths like uh for those of you who don't know insurance is run by actuaries. So an actuary is a specific type of uh math that's all about probability and they run the probabilities. So when you the I think the statistical I think the the average insurance person is a client with them for 12 years. I think that's like the average right?
>> Yep.
>> Or something like that. And then from there
>> insurance but
>> yeah so let's just say it's like you know 12 years just say that for argument sake right and then an IMO is like just basically a marketing organization.
>> Yep. Independent marketing organization. Yep. Yep. And the insurance companies have outsourced the most difficult, cumbersome and like uh most highly fluctuating part which is the sales and marketing. They've outsourced it to IMOS and to agents. The reason why they've done that is because it's a nightmare and they would have to have uh this huge infrastructure to do it when in reality what they do is they pay about like they pay up to two years worth of like 15 months to uh to two years worth of commission upfront. And they're like that's crazy. It's like, yeah, but it's not because um most of these companies, if you're have a 12-year client, I would definitely be willing to pay for two. That is a normal cost of good, right? Um and then you've got all this other stuff. So, they just they just pay it up front and then they can claw back if that person doesn't stay for a period of time, right?
>> Yeah. For most of them, it's a year.
>> Yeah. which is like when you actually think of it that way, you know, let's just say so 12 years, say $1,000 a year, it's a $12,000 client.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. They're willing to pay $2,000 to get a $12,000 client. And let's not forget, guys, most of the time with insurance, they're not paying [ __ ]
>> right? Like that's just most of the time they're going to be very profitable on each individual client. And so like that's how it makes sense. And then from there the internet market the the independent marketing organization is going to make the highest clip because they have the direct relationship right and then like they're the one that's organizing they're doing all of the you know they're doing all like the difficult like work when in terms to getting the contracts and all of the there's a lot of like logistical administrative legal and regulatory boxes in which you have to tick in order to be able to do that. Then from there they bring people in. They get paid say
>> it's usually it's like percentages right like 160 and that that stands for 160%
>> right of the first year commission the first year period. Yeah. So $1,000 they're getting paid $1,600
>> right
>> and then it goes down from there and everyone is just commission based and everyone is just getting a clip of that. Right. And and so when you actually look at it it it makes total sense. It's not like weird. It's just that there's not many other industries or any other industries where they have so much proven data that people are going to stay for that long.
>> Yeah.
>> It's what makes it unique and kind of an anomaly.
>> Yeah. Exactly. But it's also what like makes, you know, people who just don't understand how that works and makes it look scammy and scumbaggy.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean? And then from there they they they say places like, you know, they go like, uh, PHP is a [ __ ] scam or whatever. And it's like, no, it's just distribution curves of sales. Like that's all it is. And
>> you can literally write it off. the distribution curve, the success rate at PHP or at any of these like large places or whatever, it's going to follow the exact same distribution curve as any other sales organization that's employed or non-employed. It's just that if you're employed, you have a salary.
>> So, you have a floor and you have a ceiling.
>> Yep.
>> But if you're
>> But there's no ceiling in insurance. Like I mean I know of people personally that have made $300,000 a month consistently
>> which is like crazy money for a dude that just selling [ __ ] That's crazy money.
>> You know what I mean? Um that's like you know like highlevel entrepreneur money. Like high level $300,000 a month. Like I've never made I think I've made it once or twice. I've never made $300,000 a month. Like that's a very large sum of money, right? Um, you know, what's that 3.6 crazier.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, like consistently.
>> Uh, you know, which is huge. And and so you'd have to be like the CM CEO of a large company,
>> you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, and you see people like
>> like this is really what got me hooked on insurance probably more than anything was my the the first guy that trained me in insurance wasn't very duplicatable at all. Like he couldn't duplicate what he did. Um his dad was in insurance before him. you know, he inherited his dad's book and then grew it. So, everything came organically from that book, you know, but I've never seen anything like it in any other industry. He was at the time when he trained me, he was mid-40s, had young kids, and there was not a single time that I called this guy that he was not at home. Like, he was part, he was basically retired. He was doing no prospecting. All of his businesses coming to him, and like I saw his paychecks. He did, you know, he was doing 1.2, 1.3 million a year. It's great money.
>> Yeah. When and like he's in his 40s and barely working.
>> This is the dream.
>> That's bananas, you know. And most of that was off of his own like people were like, "Oh, he just had a big team." What? And it's like he did have a team, but a majority of that was from his own pen. He just he did take care of people and he got a lot of referrals.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> People always find a way to [ __ ] cheat on someone who's doing better than them.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I guess
>> like it's like,
>> oh, but [ __ ] this. It's like, well, you're a loser. How about that? How about you just suck, right?
>> Yeah,
>> that's never that's that's never the answer. The answer is like, oh,
>> yeah, you ever thought about that? I remember when I was I remember when I was I was chatting to Ryan Sant one day um and uh he was telling me this [ __ ] story about this follow-up thing and you know, he followed up with this chick for like nine years and I was like, "Okay, that's awesome." And then from there, I remember like I could text him at like 4 in the morning his time and he'd answer me and he was at the gym.
>> I was like, "I'm a piece of shit." That was my thought every time. I'm such a piece of [ __ ] Like it was never like, "Oh, this guy's [ __ ] on TV and got this." I was My answer was I'm such a piece of [ __ ] Like compared to that guy, I'm such a piece of [ __ ]
>> I deserve what I have.
>> I deserve what Yeah. Exactly. And I actually, you know, it's funny. I He's tremendously successful in like every single way. Um, but I don't want his life, right? I don't want it. I don't want any any of that, right?
>> And I don't want fame. That seems horrible, right? Um, and I I really value, you know, I like it's hard to say it without saying like he doesn't value because I know that he does, but it's like I want more time with my kids than what he has,
>> you know? Yeah. Like that's I I want I want that. And you know, maybe he has more on the back end. I don't know. You know what I mean? Um, but I I like taking holidays with my family and I like not working on the weekends and I like that, you know. And I I really actually I actually realized I was like, "Oh, I'll probably never be as financially successful as him."
>> And I was like, "I'm okay with that. I'm I'm all right with that." You know, it's
>> just a trade-off. I
>> It's a trade-off. I'm not willing to do what he does. Therefore, I'm probably not able because I would consider him
>> like I think I'm probably equally as capable as him.
>> Yep.
>> Right. I don't think he's smarter than me or whatever, but he is driven differently
>> to do something that I'm I don't have a desire to do.
>> It's a difference in focus,
>> you know. Yeah. And I I think it's very similar to changing industries actually
>> because it's like
>> Good segue back on track by the way. Fantastic. Fantastic way just to re redirect because it was going up the weeds there.
>> Yeah, we were pretty deep. We were pretty deep. I got you though.
>> Racism. What do you
>> uh Anyways,
>> hour seven. Do you think that was real or what?
>> Don't do this to me. It was such a good segue. What?
>> Let me have my moment. No, I'm just kidding. Um, racism is fun. Those are the best.
>> I'm only racist when I drive. Everybody is
>> exactly exactly right.
>> Sexist.
>> You got to realize that about yourself, right?
>> I bet it's I was right. I was right.
>> It it's it's either you're yelling at people that are driving by or you're not you're not bleeping out the nword when you're singing that song.
>> Exactly. Why? Why G, man? You kind It's a good song. What can I say?
>> What you gonna do?
>> Exactly. Um All right. So, uh, it is it's a great it was a great segue. I've lost it, though, so you're going to have to bring me back.
>> Yeah. No, just like high ticket guys, I think, sometimes are looking at insurance. It's not even just high ticket. It can be door to door. Other industries sometimes see the money that's happening in insurance and they look at it as it's a sales job.
>> And to me, that is the biggest disconnect. I haven't I think that most of the people that get into it, it's just a matter of uh expectations that were that were wrong or they thought it was just another sales job and it's like it's not just another sales job. There's
>> you're starting a business.
>> Yeah. There's more [ __ ] that goes into it.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And if it's another sales job
>> Yeah.
>> So, who do you think who do you think like you know are the right people for I guess looking at making a transition into something like insurance? I don't think it's I I I think that the right people are the ones that have the right expectations, right? It's not necessarily that it has to be a certain type of person because there's so many different ways you could approach it. Like you could come into it more strategically, put more money into it, invest more, do more marketing, and try and create better funnels,
>> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Um right from the very beginning. Um
>> I wouldn't do it that way. I think just come in and get on the phones, make dials, and make money,
>> right? Like
>> you just lost half the audience. Make dials.
>> Yeah, I know. Make dials. What are those?
>> People are so [ __ ] terrified of picking up a phone and calling people. It is crazy to me.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> I don't know. Honestly, I don't get it because I never had that. I just never did. I just like was like, "Oh,
>> I thought it was normal. I thought that everybody dialed that much and I thought that everybody did crazy amounts of outbound at the beginning of their career. I didn't realize it was something I didn't have to do.
>> Yeah, you probably should though.
>> You probably should. I'm grateful I did it.
>> It helps a lot.
>> I'm grateful I did it. But it is uh in the moment in the moment it feels like it's taking forever. You know that that
>> Yeah.
>> When you suck and you're doing a lot.
>> I think we both have been there.
>> Um
>> definitely. you know, uh that month feels like three months,
>> but it's just
>> Yeah.
>> Sometimes it happens on a hockey stick.
>> Yeah. I know. So, it's just good to like, you know, if you want to get good at something, just get more interactions. This is one thing I don't understand where like these people
>> will, you know, I remember I was having I was having a a coaching call like years ago and this girl like hadn't pitched anyone yet, right?
>> She started this new job. She's like a B2B SAS like sales rep and she hadn't pitched anyone and she like we were working on stuff in the course and I was like, "Hey, let's role play." She's like, "Well, I haven't role played the pitch yet." And I was like, "Why not?" She's like, "Well, cuz I haven't had to do it yet." I go, "This is," she goes, "I haven't had any qualified sort of um leads yet to go through to the pitch." I go, "So, this is your plan. Your best case scenario is that you get a fire lead and then you've never done the pitch. You've never done it once. This is your This is your plan.
>> Never even role played it.
>> I was like, "This is the plan." Like, "Oh, yeah. That's not very smart."
>> That's crazy.
>> Yeah. People would be stupid.
>> Yeah. And it's the same thing in, you know,
>> there's a learning curve to Lex.
>> There there's just a learning curve to things. And so, I think that you have to realize there's a learning curve. Even if you, you know, if you're the top guy in your industry, but you're going to a different industry, there's going to be a learning curve.
>> Start in F. Where do you reckon? Start final expense.
>> Yeah. Uh, I think general life, final expense, they're they're one and the same. Um, I think it's hard not to start there because that's 70% of the the market that's looking,
>> you know, and so sometimes people try to run from that because they want bigger policies and so they'll go do something like mortgage protection.
>> It's crazy to me though because like let's just say what's the average like what uh 100 bucks a month is like the average final expense.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Depends on where your lead source is, but yeah, 100 bucks a month plus or minus 20 bucks. Yeah, but mate, what are you getting? 600 bucks a [ __ ] sale?
>> Yeah, on the low end.
>> Do you know what you have to sell to get 600 bucks a sale on high ticket? Like, no one's getting 20% commiss anymore, right? If you are, you're probably on a [ __ ] scam just because the cost of advertising. So, you've got to like you're eating as the sales rep, you're eating the cost of acquisition, though.
>> Yeah, but what does it what does a lead cost, Kaden?
>> Depends. So, if you're good, your cost per acquisition should be pretty low.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like what's a what's a lead cost? What is a final expense age lead cost?
>> An age lead. Yeah. Depending on how age like 80 cents. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or up to like what 13 bucks, something like that. Like all the way up.
>> Exclusive. Exclusive could be 20.
>> Yeah. Like [ __ ] And it's a new lead. Like you're fine. You know what I mean? Like you're selling You're fine. [ __ ] I mean, if you can't sell, you know, if you're getting those exclusive new leads and you're like, you're getting the right amount of leads and you're fast on the phone, right? You should be selling a good chunk of those people, you can make five sales a day. Like, I've seen people do it. You know what I mean? They just like, it's not a difficult sale. It's just you have to take them through the process. Selling the age leads is more difficult, but like it's only difficult because most people just don't get past the hello.
>> Yep. It's difficult mentally because most people get discouraged
>> by not getting past the hello so often.
>> Yeah. But that's like that's the [ __ ] the puzzle.
>> When you solve the puzzle, it's like look at it that way. Like, oh, I wonder if I could figure if I could figure that out. Oh boy, that's crazy. You know, I can get 80 cent leads and I can sell them at the same rate just cuz no one else has figured out how to sell them. But it's because they sell that lead a thousand times and they just get pitched by [ __ ] morons. Think of every other sales rep you've ever met. If you're a good sales rep, everyone else is [ __ ] right? Like [ __ ] They're just terrible at what they do. They don't try. I tell people, and this is how you be top 1% salesperson. This hot take, but this is 100% true, right? Work eight hours a day.
>> That's it.
>> That's it, that's it, man. You're top one
>> actual work.
>> You're top 1%. Eight hours a day. If you ask for referrals, you're top.5.
>> Yeah. Actual work is the key.
>> Yeah.
>> And so I think final expense is great, you know, like it's crazy that you can sell something for a,000 to,200 bucks and get like a $600 commission, you know, and it makes total sense. We've gone over the math, but that's a fantastic like what you make a sale a day, you're making 600 bucks a day. You know what I mean? And most of the time, you know, in order to get that in high ticket, you'd have to be selling a $6,000 product, you know what I mean?
>> Um,
>> it's a little bit more difficult.
>> Yeah. So, like if you're I think like could be honest from going from setter to like great transition.
>> Yeah, it can be a good transition there.
>> Yeah. Know, you're just used to kind of sitting there dialing, smiling, getting getting like the openers, you know? So, if you're if you're like a setter that's looking to transition to closing, I would highly, especially if you're someone that's like a like a good setter, like you're good at getting the open, that's the hardest part. That's like 80% of the incurren sale.
>> 80% of it is prospecting. You can be you can be garbage at sales and do really well in insurance if you're good at prospecting.
>> Yep. And then just be like look at it. You know, I think the thing is if you embrace the fact that you're the one who's paying for the leads,
>> you know, that is embrace that fact and understand that like now you understand the value of a lead.
>> Yep.
>> You know, it's it's a lot more impressive to waste leads that you've paid for. It shows a really a really competent level of laziness if you pay for the lead and still don't call them. So at least maybe you know maybe sales just isn't for you. Like maybe it's just
>> do that. That is I didn't the the amount that that happens is absolutely baffling.
>> Yeah.
>> That people do that. But no it's you know you got to call the leads and um you just got to get after it regardless of the industry.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But I I think you know great place and then there's you can climb the ladder. You can go to things like your mortgage protection. Then you can go to your advanced markets like you know ILS and annuities and that's like there's serious serious serious money long-term
>> kind of generational type long-term tail money too and and and and and that kind of stuff. But you've got to learn the game and you've got to understand things and you've got to kind of work I think you got to work your way up to just from like an insurance knowledge base, you know, and I think being able to build up clientele and I think people try and skip straight to the end,
>> you know, because they see people making this money.
>> Good.
>> Yeah. They end up getting a whole lot of policies but no people actually paying the money, right? We've seen that before.
>> Be trouble.
>> It could be trouble as you say.
>> Yeah. But I I think like, you know, if you're someone who isn't afraid of work, isn't afraid of outbound.
>> Yep.
>> Um or you're a setter who's doing really well, but like maybe just doesn't want to sell the thing that you're setting. I think like insurance and final expense are a good thing to get into. Um it works different in every single country. So like this is more of a US type opportunity, right? Um and you've got to be a US citizen and you got to be in the US and like all that kind of stuff. So, um, but I think like, you know, if you're in the mood for something like that, I think give it a try. You can reach out to one of us. Uh, we have our own team, Sniper Insurance, right? And where where are we? Tell tell them a little about where we are because we just made a little change of change.
>> We're partnered with Lasting Mark, uh, under Dana Niss, specifically with Empower Life Group. Dana. Well,
>> Dana, she's good at what she does. Um, she's very good at what she does. I did a podcast with her a little while ago. And uh she's a Gman, you know.
>> Yeah. She's been in sales for a long time.
>> She gets after she knows what she's doing.
>> Yeah.
>> Like Yeah.
>> She knows what she's doing. And she
>> I I think the biggest thing is that we align with her and the fact that the agent should come first.
>> Yeah. I think you and I look at it the same way like for for us uh running the team you know and obviously I'm selling as well but in terms of running the team the agents are our clients and so like providing them the resources to have success is what we need to do and then we make the most amount of money possible. But not a lot of people in the industry look at it like that. Like most people are just recruiting the masses and letting the strong ones find their way.
>> Yeah. Which I think is valid, you know. Um, but I think like for us, we've sort of done done things a couple times now. And it's like I'd rather have a small team, a core team of people that do well and then build up from there rather than like we could recruit the world. We could say, "Hey, go down below. We could put I mean into committed coaches, right?" Which is another thing like which we do. I put 135 people in one week, right? you know, because it's like, hey, that's just if you need to sales and you want to get better at sales and you want high [ __ ] volume and going after it, like that is a great place to just go through the fires
>> and just get better and you can make great money there. You can like this dude's making 30, 40 grand a month, right? Um, as a sales career, you're probably not going to be there for 15 years,
>> you know what I mean? Like you're just not going to sell fitness and supplements 15 years, right? But that's a phenomenal place to start and just get good and get reps and get access to things. And I mean, you could sell 24 hours a day there. Like it is what it is. 10,000 leads a day.
>> Yeah. 10,000 leads a day is ridiculous.
>> It's crazy.
>> I think insurance is is better for the people that have some experience. They they already know what they're doing on the phones. Um, you know, those are the people that are really good fit for us because everything we do is on the phone. So already already know what they do on the phones. they're comfortable in a sales environment. Um, and you know, they're they're they're ready to dive in and actually do the work.
>> Yeah. And you want to be someone who like is potentially going to come and and lead a team, which means that you need to be someone who leads from the front.
>> So, you need to go in there and like sort of almost act like you are already. You know what I mean? Like being watched by other people, right?
>> It's me and Kaden sitting down in a chair, right? in the corner just watching you go to work
>> just cocking up your sales right um but all right guys hope that was helpful I got to go and train the committed team actually
>> till the next one
>> so all right guys have a good one bye