The Beat With Ari Melber - Aug. 6 | Audio Only

WELCOME TO THE BEAT. I'M ARI MELBO, AND WE HAVE CONTINUING COVERAGE ON THIS DAMAGE CONTROL THAT IS COMING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE. SO THEY'RE NOW TRYING TO EXPLAIN SOME THINGS THAT THEY'VE DONE, HAVEN'T DONE, AND THAT THEY'VE LEAKED.

TRUMP WHITE HOUSE SCRAMBLING NOW LATE IN THE DAY TO QUELL ANOTHER EPSTEIN-RELATED UPROAR. NOW THERE ARE REPORTS THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THIS HIGH-LEVEL MEETING TONIGHT, YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD ABOUT THIS, AT THE VICE PRESIDENT'S RESIDENCE, WHICH ITSELF IS A BIT UNUSUAL, ALTHOUGH YOU COULD HAVE MEETINGS IN ANY NUMBER OF PLACES IN THE EVENING WITH TOP STAFF. WHAT'S DIFFERENT THOUGH IS THAT THE VICE PRESIDENT NOW IS TRYING TO TAMP DOWN ANY EXPECTATIONS THAT THIS MEETING IS ABOUT EPSTEIN OR WILL LEAD TO MORE EPSTEIN ACTION. HE'S DENYING THAT.

NOW, THE REPORTS CALLED IT A KIND OF OBSCENE STRATEGY DINNER FOR THE SCANDAL THAT WON'T GO AWAY, AND TO DISCUSS IF THERE IS ANYTHING THAT THEY CAN RELEASE, INCLUDING PERHAPS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE SUSPICIOUS INTERVIEWS CONDUCTED WITH ELAINE MAXWELL. THIS IS WHAT VANCE JUST SAID. GATHERING OF TOP ADVISORS THIS EVENING TO TALK ABOUT HOW TO RESPOND TO THE EPSTEIN'S. I DON'T KNOW. I COULD ASK YOU THAT QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW OF IT, BUT I THINK, UH, I, I, HERE'S THE MAN RIGHT HERE. I SAW A REPORTED TODAY, AND IT'S COMPLETELY FAKE NEWS. WE'RE NOT MEANING TO TALK ABOUT THE EPSTEIN SITUATION, AND I THINK THE REPORTER REPORTED IT NEEDS TO GET BETTER SOURCES.

LOOK, THE WHOLE THING IS A HOAX. UH, DONALD TRUMP DOING SOMETHING VERY RARE THERE, SEEING THE MICROPHONE, OF COURSE, BECAUSE THIS IS LOOKING BAD. SO IF BY A BIT OF PRE-PLANNED THEATER, THEY HAVE HUNG MORE OF IT ON VANCE AND THEN HE SAYS, OH, HEY, WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER? AND THEN THEY BOTH SAY FAKE NEWS, AND THEN YOU HEARD TRUMP AT THE END SAY THIS WHOLE THING IS A HOAX.

WELL, THIS IS A MAD STORY FROM THE START. THIS IS SOMETHING TRUMP PROMISED TO DO, RELEASE EPSTEIN INFORMATION, WHICH HE'S NOT DOING. SO, JUST LIKE THE WAY HE USED TO BADMOUTH CRYPTO IS A SCAM AND NOW SELLS CRYPTO, WE ARE REMINDED OF THE INCONSISTENCIES. IF IT'S A HOAX, IT'S HIS HOAX. BUT THE UNDERLYING CASE IS NO HOAX. REAL PEOPLE, REAL LIVES WERE RUINED. REAL VICTIMS OF SEX TRAFFICKING HAVE BEEN SPEAKING OUT BECAUSE OF THE SECRECY AND THE MISTAKES CLEARLY MADE BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NOW, EVEN BEFORE YOU GET TO THE HISTORY.

AND I'VE TOLD YOU IN THIS STORY, WHILE THERE IS POLITICS INVOLVED AND THERE'S A WHOLE SAGA IN WASHINGTON ABOUT IT, WE WILL CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE COVERING THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES AND THE VICTIMS IF AND WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO SPEAK OUT, AND THEY'RE SPEAKING OUT AGAIN TODAY, SAYING, WE UNDERSTAND THE VICE PRESIDENT AGAIN, BASED ON THAT REPORTING WHICH YOU JUST HEARD HIM DENY, BUT WE UNDERSTAND HE'LL HOLD A STRATEGY SESSION WITH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS. MISSING FROM THIS GROUP IS, OF COURSE, ANY SURVIVOR OF THE VARIOUS CRIMES OF CONVICTED PERJURER AND SEX TRAFFICKER, GILLANE MAXWELL AND JEFFREY EPSTEIN. THEIR VOICES MUST BE HEARD ABOVE ALL.

THEY GO ON TO SAY, MAXWELL SHOULD HAVE REMAINED IN A MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON AND DOES NOT DESERVE THE LUXURIES CURRENTLY AFFORDED HER. A REFERENCE TO ONE OF THE GREAT HYPOCRISIES ABOUT THE SO-CALLED MAGA EPSTEIN JUSTICE MOVEMENT, WHICH IS, IF IT HAS DONE ONE TANGIBLE THING, IT'S NOT GET MORE INFORMATION OR TRANSPARENCY OR GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHAT WAS A SUSPICIOUS DEATH IN THE CUSTODY OF THE TRUMP DOJ. NO, THE ONE ACTUAL REAL WORLD CHANGE IS BETTER TREATMENT AND LENIENCY FOR AN EPSTEIN SEX TRAFFICKING CONSPIRATOR.

WASHINGTON POST REPORTS AS FOR THAT LENIENCY, THAT PRISON HAS COMPARATIVELY COMFORTABLE ACCOMMODATIONS. IT'S MORE LIKE A CAMPUS. IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED THEN A TYPICAL FEDERAL PRISON. INDEED, ONE REPORT SAID IT'S QUOTE THE NATION'S MOST LENIENT LOCKUP. ANOTHER WARDEN SAID, QUOTE, SOMEONE GAVE PREFERENCE, SPECIAL PREFERENCE TO MAXWELL. NO OTHER INMATE CURRENTLY IN BOP IS RECEIVED, AND IT'S A COUNTRY CLUB, INMATES, THEY HAVE A SEX OFFENSE ARE NOT GOING TO A PLACE LIKE THAT, PERIOD. IT'S TRULY UNHEARD OF.

NOW THERE'S OVERNIGHT REPORTS THAT MAXWELL IN THOSE INTERVIEWS, AND WITH ALL REPORTING, SOMETIMES YOU ASK, HUH, WHO WOULD LEAK THIS? WHO WOULD HAVE THE REASON TO LEAK THIS AND WHO'S IN CONTROL OF HER AND THOSE INTERVIEWS? WELL, ACCORDING TO ABC NEWS REPORTING, SHE TOLD DOJ TRUMP NEVER DID ANYTHING CONCERNING AROUND HER. NOW, I'LL PUT THE ABC PIECE TO THE SIDE AND ADD ANOTHER POINT HERE. WHAT IS GOING ON WHEN IN A CLOSED CASE WHERE SHE'S BEEN CONVICTED AND HER CO-CONSPIRATOR IS DEAD, WHY IS SHE BEING INTERVIEWED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHY IS HIS NAME EVEN COMING UP? THE WHOLE THING ITSELF IS SUSPICIOUS AND BACK BEFORE TRUMP. WAS TRYING TO GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS SCANDAL. REMEMBER, THERE WAS AN ACTUAL INVESTIGATION. THEY ALREADY GOT ALL THE INFORMATION THEY COULD OUT OF HER. THERE IS NO LEGAL OR SUBSTANTIVE REASON WE WOULD EXPECT NEW INFORMATION TO COME OUT. THE LINE OF QUESTIONING, AND NOW THE LEAKING IS SUSPICIOUS. SOME SAY THERE COULD BE A DEAL HERE.

NOW, I CAN ONLY REPORT FOR YOU WHAT HAPPENED. I CAN TELL YOU WHAT'S SUSPICIOUS. I CAN TELL YOU THEY ALREADY GOT INFORMATION OUT OF HER BEFORE THEY CONVICTED HER, AND I COULD TELL YOU SHE'S GETTING SPECIAL TREATMENT. WHETHER THOSE WERE EXCHANGED IN A DEAL, WE DON'T HAVE THE REPORTING ON THAT YET.

TRUMP MEANWHILE, HAS DANGLED A PARDON FOR HER. WOULD YOU CONSIDER A PARDON OR A COMMUTATION FOR GUILLE MAXWELL. IT'S IT'S SOMETHING I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT. IT'S REALLY RECOMMENDED. IT'S I'M ALLOWED TO DO IT, BUT IT'S SOMETHING I HAVE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT.

I WANT TO BRING IN OUR GUESTS ON SOMETHING THAT TRUMP HASN'T THOUGHT ABOUT, BUT APPARENTLY CAN'T RULE OUT. WE ARE JOINED BY THE REVEREND AL SHARPTON, HOST OF POLITICS NATION ON MSNBC, FOUNDER OF THE NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK, AND VANITY FAIRS, MOLLY JUNG FASS, AND MSNBC ANALYST. UH, MOLLY. IT SOUNDS CRITICAL TO JUST GO IN AND LIST THE SORDID AND UNUSUAL FACTS OF WHAT HAS OCCURRED. NO ONE IN REPORTING HAS YET NAILED A DEAL, BUT WE ARE SEEING SUSPICIOUS BRICKS IN A WALL THAT LOOKS LIKE. MAXWELL GAVE THEM STUFF, AND NOW THEY'RE GIVING HER STUFF. WHETHER THAT WAS ARRANGED, WE CAN'T SAY YET, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD. IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD. AND REMEMBER, THIS WHOLE THING IS, IT'S SORT OF, IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD. LIKE, EVERY PART OF IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD. AND EVERY TIME TRUMP DOES MORE, HE MAKES IT WORSE, RIGHT? LIKE, HE TALKS ABOUT IT, HE BRINGS ATTENTION TO IT. THE EVERY PIECE OF REPORTING, REMEMBER THE REPORTING THAT THE FBI HAD PEOPLE GO THROUGH AND REDACT THE NAMES, INCLUDING TRUMP'S NAME. LIKE, THESE ARE JUST VERY SUSPECT. THESE ARE THINGS THAT SEEM VERY SUSPICIOUS, AND WE HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO THREAD THE NEEDLE, BUT IN A CASE LIKE THIS WHERE THERE'S SO MUCH ATTENTION AND THERE'S SO MUCH INTEREST, TO RELEASE MORE AND MORE BITS OF IT, WE'LL JUST CONTINUE. AND REMEMBER, I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS CASE IS THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT GETS THE MEGA MEGA BASE IS SUPER INTERESTED IN. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A MAINSTREAM MEDIA OBSESSION, THE WAY THAT OTHER THINGS TRUMP HAS, HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN HAVE BEEN.

YEAH. UH, REVEREND SHARPTON, I REALLY WANT TO GO TO THE POLITICS WITH YOU. UH, YOU'RE KNOWN FOR MORE THAN ONE THING. YOU CARE A LOT ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS. I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT COMING UP. BUT YOU KNOW POLITICS, I'VE SEEN YOU. MANEUVER WITH PEOPLE IN BOTH PARTIES. I'VE SEEN YOU COUNSEL PEOPLE WHO HAVE SCANDALS THAT LOOK LIKE A LOT LESS THAN THIS. HOW DO YOU RATE THE WAY THEY'RE HANDLING THIS? AND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHAT WE JUST HEARD, THE PRESIDENT, THE VICE PRESIDENT RESPONDING TO THEIR OWN SORT OF LEAKS. ONLY THEY KNOW WHERE THEY'RE MEETING AND WHO THEY'RE MEETING WITH, AND DRAGGING OUT WHAT HAS BEEN THEIR SECRETIVE APPROACH TO THIS SEX TRAFFICKING SCANDAL.

I THINK THAT AT BEST, I'D RANK THEM AS AMATEURS BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING VERY BIG MISTAKES. ONE, TO HAVE THE #2 MAN IN JUSTICE GO DOWN AND TALK TO A WOMAN CONVICTED. AND UH, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE MAGICALLY LEAVES A JAIL AND GOES TO WHAT SOME HAVE SAID IS LIKE A CLUB. UH IT JUST AMATEURS DO THAT. UH, TO TALK ABOUT A PARDON AND UH LEAVE IT OPEN. WELL, YOU'RE A LAWYER, BUT PARDON BASED ON WHAT? SHE'S ALREADY BEEN SENTENCED. SHE'S BEEN SENTENCED BEFORE YOU WERE THERE. SO, WHAT WOULD BE THE BASIS OF YOU SAYING SHE'S BEEN SENTENCED TOO LONG WHEN SHE'S BEEN ALREADY DOING FOR 20 YEARS? WHAT WOULD BE THE BASIS OF A PART OTHER THAN SOME QUID PRO QUO FOR WHATEVER REASONS WE DON'T KNOW. UH, I THINK THAT THEY HAVE BROUGHT MORE SUSPICION ON THEMSELVES. BECAUSE OF THE AMATEURIST WAY THEY'VE HANDLED THIS. SO I'M NOT MINIMIZING THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE BEEN COVERING AND I'VE HAD EXPERTS ON ABOUT THE VICTIMS, BUT I WILL MAKE A LOONEY TUNES ANALOGY, WHICH IS ON OTHER SCANDALS, DONALD TRUMP HAS BEN WILEY COYOTE. WE HAVE SEEN HIS CRITICS AND DEMOCRATS SAY THEY THINK THEY GOT HIM AND HE ALWAYS GETS AWAY. WHY DO YOU THINK ON THIS ONE, HE SUDDENLY IS SITTING IN THIS FOR WEEKS ON END WITH HIS BASE UP IN UPROAR? BECAUSE THIS TIME IT'S NOT HIS CRITICS GETTING HIM OR HIS OPPOSITION GETTING HIM. HE'S GETTING HIMSELF. HE'S, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, THERE IS A FRIEND OF MINE THAT ALWAYS SAYS A FISH WOULDN'T GET CAUGHT IF HE KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT, AND HE KEEPS TALKING HIMSELF BACK INTO THIS. AND IF HE HAD JUST ANOTHER FRIEND OF YOURS USED TO SAY, SAY THAT SOME PEOPLE. TALK A LOT. BUT SAY NOTHING. QUOTE WAS SAYING LOUD TALKING LOUD AND SAYING NOTHING, TALKING LOUD AND SAYING NOTHING TO SEE, SEE, THIS IS THE THING. SOMETIMES PEOPLE JUST LISTEN TO THE LYRICS. REV SAYS, NO, I KNEW JAMES BROWN, LET ME FIX IT. GO AHEAD, SIR. NO, BUT WHAT MY POINT IS, HE HAS TALKED HIMSELF BACK INTO IT. HE, IF THEY HAD NOT HAD TO MOVE WITH THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL, IF THEY HAD NOT HAD TO MOVE WITH, UH, UH, TRUMP TALKING ABOUT THIS ON A, UH, A DAILY BASIS AND DENYING IT, IT WOULD HAVE DIED THAT WEEK. HE KEEPS BRINGING IT BACK, WHICH ALSO MAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THAT HE CAN'T LET IT GO FOR A REASON. NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE DID. WE DON'T KNOW, BUT IT LOOKS BAD, BUT IT LOOKS BAD.

YEAH, IT LOOKS BAD BECAUSE YOU'RE COMPLAINING TOO MUCH. YOU'RE SPENDING TOO MUCH, AND NOW YOU, YOU, YOU GONNA HAVE A MEETING AT THE VICE PRESIDENT'S HOUSE AND IT'S THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THEN. FBI, EVERYBODY THAT WOULD BE INVOLVED, BUT YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. BUT THEN WHY DID SOMEBODY LEAK THAT YOU HAVE IN THE MEDIA? WHAT ARE YOU MEANING ABOUT? SO I MEAN, IT'S JUST AMATEUR MOVES.

ALL RIGHT, UH, MOLLY, MAYBE I'LL DO ANOTHER JAMES BROWN, AND MAYBE YOU CAN GET INVOLVED. ARE YOU READY? YES, OK, DON'T GIVE IT AWAY. ALL RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW KARATE. WHAT THIS IS NOT PREPARED FOR THIS. I'M SORRY. I APOLOGIZE. CLASSIC. DON'T APOLOGIZE. HE'S JUST AN EXPERT. THE POLLING. WAIT, I'M GONNA SHOW YOU POLLING. IT'S FUNNY YOU SAID THAT. WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE, UH, UMASS POLL. PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS AROUND THE COUNTRY. IT'S SUMMER, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON. PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS, AND THERE'S A CLEAR VIEW WHEN YOU SAY, WHO'S HIDING THE INFO? IT'S NOT FEDERAL BUREAUCRATS, IT'S NOT THE SPEAKER, ALTHOUGH SOME THINK THAT. IT'S NOT THE TRUMP OFFICIALS WHO'VE BEEN BLAMED, ALTHOUGH BONDI DOES CATCH 59%, BUT FAR AND AWAY, THIS MEANS, TO BE CLEAR, MOLLY. 81% WITH OVER HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP STATISTICALLY ALSO THINK HE'S HIDING IT. AND IF YOU PULL THE PARDON, IF YOU PULL HIM PARDONING THE LANE, IT'S LIKE, IT'S VERY HARD TO GET AMERICANS TO AGREE ON THINGS, BUT THEY ALL AGREE THAT HE SHOULD NOT PARDON HER. SO HE HAS REALLY BACKED HIMSELF INTO A STICKY WICKET HERE, RIGHT? BECAUSE GLANE NOW HAS THIS SORT OF SPOTLIGHT, SHE CAN TALK MORE. IF HE PARDONS HER, IT'S BAD FOR HIM. I MEAN, YOU JUST SEE. AND THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK IS SO INTERESTING THAT REMINDS ME OF TRUMP 1.0, IS THAT YOU HAVE LEAKERS. YOU'RE STARTING TO HAVE A LOT OF LEAKERS, AND THAT WAS THE THING THAT REALLY UNHINGED TRUMP 1.0.

YEAH, AND YOU COULD SEE THAT WITH TRUMP AND VANCE. MAYBE, AS I'VE TOLD VIEWERS, WE'RE WATCHING THIS SORT OF WHAT REV CALLED AN AMATEUR ATTEMPT. TO PARCEL OUT COMING INFORMATION. OH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BIG MEETING AND WE'RE HEARING ABOUT IT, AND THEN, OH, YOU'RE GONNA GET SOME TRANSCRIPTS AND OH, LO AND BEHOLD, SOME OF THEM, ACCORDING TO ABC MIGHT SAY THINGS THAT INVOLVE TRUMP NOT BEING GUILTY OF SEX CRIMES. THAT'S ALL MAXWELL CAN TELL YOU. WERE YOU INVOLVED IN A SEX CRIME RING OR NOT? THE ANSWER IS NO, GOOD, FINE. HOPEFULLY THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE. THAT'S NOT A WIN. UM, BUT, BUT IS IT THAT OR AS YOU SAY, ARE THERE OTHER PEOPLE LEAKING? BECAUSE THEY'RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT THIS AND YOU GO AHEAD. AND THE MORE ATTENTION THIS GETS, THE MORE HE LOSES. SO EVEN IF HER JUST SAYING HE DID NOTHING WRONG AND THEN MOVING TO A BETTER PRISON IS KIND OF A LOSE FOR HIM.

YEAH, UM, I, I MENTIONED TO VIEWERS THAT WE'RE COVERING THIS AND IT'S A HUGE DEAL, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER IMPORTANT STUFF. YOU'RE COMING BACK FOR SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING LATER. REV IS HERE IN 90 SECONDS. WE'RE GONNA GET AT THESE FUNDAMENTAL. RIGHTS ISSUES THAT I KNOW YOU WANTED TO SPOTLIGHT, SO REV STICKS AROUND FOR THAT. BY THE END OF THE HOUR, ACCLAIMED DIRECTOR JAMES CAMERON ON HOW DONALD TRUMP IN THIS ERA, I'M GONNA ASK HIM ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS UNDER FIRE. WHAT DO WE DO AS A COUNTRY WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE CLIMATE PROBLEMS AND WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT TITANIC AS A POLITICAL MESSAGE. ALL THAT'S COMING UP, BUT FIRST, THE REV BACK WITH ME IN 90 SECONDS. TO SAY THAT BLACKS ARE 3/5 OF A HUMAN, WHAT DO YOU MEAN, UH, GAYS AND LESBIANS HUMAN OR NOT? OF COURSE. WELL THEN WHY CAN'T THEY HAVE THE SAME HUMAN? REVEREND AL SHARPTON, ARE THEY HUMAN OR NOT? UH, ONE OF THE MANY LINES WE REMEMBER FROM HIS TIME DIRECTLY IN POLITICS THERE ON THE DEBATE STAGE. UH, WE LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE WRITING HERE IN A NEW PIECE, 60 YEARS AFTER THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, YOU SAY OUR VOICES ARE ERODED LOOKING AT THE ATTACKS ON DEMOCRACY AROUND THE COUNTRY. TELL US ABOUT THIS. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FACT THAT EVERYTHING THAT WAS FOUGHT FOR OUT OF THE 60S, FROM THE VOTING RIGHTS BILL, WHICH IS THE ANNIVERSARY TODAY OF WHEN. JOHNSON AS PRESIDENT SIGNED IT TO WHERE THERE'S BEEN NOT ONLY A RETRENCHMENT, BUT HOSTILITY OF LGBTQ RIGHTS, WHICH I TALKED ABOUT THEN THAT PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY DEBATE. WHEN WE LOOK AT UH WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND LOOKING AT WHERE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT BANNING BOOKS, I MEAN, WE COULD NOT HAVE IMAGINED AS MUCH AS WE WERE FIGHTING 20 YEARS AGO THAT ANY OF THIS WAS POSSIBLE. AND IT'S NOT ONLY POSSIBLE HAPPENING. AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS ALL, AS WE SHOULD BE CELEBRATING THE 60TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SIGNING OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT TODAY, WE HAVE LEGISLATORS FROM TEXAS HAVING TO LEAVE HOME AND THEIR FAMILIES TO STOP A QUORUM TO READ UH DRAW THE DISTRICT LINES THAT WOULD DENY BLACK AND BROWN REPRESENTATION IN THE CONGRESS.

RIGHT? YOU'RE PUTTING YOUR FINGER RIGHT ON THAT. NOW LOOK, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT JUST BE FULL OF HATE, MIGHT BE BIGOTS. OTHER PEOPLE THOUGH, WERE JUST INCORRECT. THERE WERE PEOPLE LIKE CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS, WHO SAID, WE USED TO NEED THESE RULES BECAUSE POLITICIANS WERE PLAYING GAMES WITH VOTING. AND WE DON'T NEED THESE RULES ANYMORE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HAPPENING. THAT WAS THE LOGIC, AS YOU KNOW, IN SHELBY V. HOLDER. WE ALL LIVED THROUGH IT AND COVERED IT. WELL, WHAT DOES TEXAS SHOW US ABOUT NOT WHETHER JOHN ROBERTS HAS ANY DISCRIMINATION IN HIS HEART. I, I DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO THINK FROM HIS RECORD THAT HE DOES, BUT THAT THE PREMISE OF THAT RULING. HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG, NO, ABSOLUTELY. AND IF JUDGE ROBERTS, UH, IF THIS COMES BACK TO THEM WITH THE LOUISIANA CASE NOW THAT THEY ARE GONNA DEAL WITH SECTION 2 OF, UH, OF HAVING TO DEAL WITH WHETHER RACE CAN EVEN BE A FACTOR. HE'D HAVE TO SAY THE DATA SHOWS THAT I WAS WRONG IF HE'S AS FAIR AS. WE ALL ARE GIVING HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW CAUSE THE DATA SHOWS WHAT IT IS. UH, AND IF YOU LOOK AT IT ACROSS THE BOARD, THIS IS WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS SHOWN. AND THEY CAME IN SAYING WE'RE GOING AFTER DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION. LOOK AT THE DATA, JUST LAST WEEK'S JOBS REPORT, BLACK UNEMPLOYMENT WENT UP. TO 7.2%. WELL, I THOUGHT IF YOU DEPORTED PEOPLE, THEY WERE TAKING OUT BLACK JOBS, IT SHOULD HAVE GONE DOWN. WHAT HAPPENED TO MY BLACK JOB? RIGHT? SO I MEAN, I THINK THAT IN ANY WAY YOU WANT TO CUT IT, THERE'S BEEN A RETRENCHING OF BLACK AND, AND OTHER WOMEN, GAYS, OTHER RIGHTS, WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE NEED TO BE ORGANIZING AS THEY HAVE BEEN AND AS WE ARE DOING. NOW, TO FIGHT BACK. I THINK THERE'S NO OTHER WAY BECAUSE I THINK DONALD TRUMP HAS SHOWN EXACTLY THE KIND OF AMERICA THAT HE WANTS TO TRY TO BRING BACK. RIGHT? AND WE HAVE NEVER HAD A GREAT EXPERIENCE TRUSTING POLITICIANS TO REGULATE THEMSELVES. THAT'S A NONPARTISAN POINT. AND SO, AS YOU SAY, IT PUTS A LOT OF PRESSURE BACK ON THE COURTS. IF THEY'RE HONEST ABOUT, OK, YOU TRIED, YOU TRIED PULLING. UP THE RULES IN THE SOUTH. HOW'S THAT GOING? REVEREND SHARPTON, ON MORE THAN ONE TOPIC. GOOD TO SEE YOU, SIR. GOOD TO BE WITH YOU. APPRECIATE IT. AND BE SURE TO CHECK OUT POLITICS NATION, OF COURSE, WEEKEND'S 5 P.M. EASTERN ON MSNBC. BY THE END OF THE HOUR TONIGHT, THE ART SPORTING DIRECTOR JAMES CAMERON IS HERE, AND THE EPSTEIN UPROAR IS THREATENING TO TRUMP IN WAYS THAT YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT, BUT WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU WHY THERE'S A MELTDOWN. PLUS THIS LOOK AT THAT MELTDOWN. WE'RE ALL ON STAGE DEMANDING THE RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN KLANIST. TRUMP HAS PUT HIS TARIFFS ALL OVER THE PLACE. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THEM. I DON'T. IT'S VERY UPSETTING. IT'S EXTREMELY UPSETTING.

WELCOME BACK. DONALD TRUMP IS HAVING BY FAR THE WORST MONTH OF HIS SECOND TERM, AND ALSO WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT REVEREND SHARPTON WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT, THE WAY THAT HIS OWN BASE'S ANGER AT HIM HAS DRAGGED DOWN HIS AGENDA IN A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT WAY THAN YEARS PAST, IT'S ALSO ONE OF THE WORST MONTHS WE'VE SEEN SINCE HE'S EVER BEEN PRESIDENT, BOTH TERMS. WE CAN MEASURE THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS A MORE POLITICALLY DANGEROUS MOMENT. AND I'M GONNA SHOW YOU EXACTLY WHY. WE HAVE THESE PROMINENT MAGA VOICES. SOME ARE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, SOME ARE ON FOX NEWS, BUT MORE THAN EVER BEFORE AND THE FIRST TERM, WHICH WAS MANY LIGHT YEARS AGO IN TERMS OF TECHNOLOGY, WE HAVE MORE INDEPENDENT VOICES ONLINE, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE LESS BEHOLDEN TO SOME OF THESE OTHER THINGS. THAT'S TRUE REGARDLESS OF IDEOLOGY. AND SO IT GOES BEYOND EPSTEIN. IN THE PAST WEEKS AND MONTHS, SOME OF THOSE VOICES WHO ARE MAGA AND VOTED FOR TRUMP AND HAVE AUDIENCES THAT THEY'VE SAID ARE VERY TRUMPIFIED. THEY ARE NOT JUST CRITICIZING THIS OR THAT POLICY. THEY'RE USING THAT SAME SMASHING RHETORIC THAT TRUMP AND MAGA FOLKS TEND TO USE AGAINST HIM. HE DOESN'T LIKE HOW THE MEDICINE TASTES, BUT THIS COULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT DYNAMIC THAN THE FIRST TERM. AND I KNOW IT'S SUMMER AND SOME PEOPLE SAY, HEY, WE'RE JUST, UH, GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS OF POLITICS HERE, AND IT ALL BLENDS TOGETHER OR IT FEELS THE SAME. BUT IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE FACTS AS WE DO, WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON. THAT'S WHAT JOURNALISTS AND AUTHORS AND POLITICAL SCIENTISTS TRY TO DO. SOMETHING DIFFERENT IS HAPPENING, AND I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU IN THIS REPORT RIGHT NOW WHY IT'S BIGGER THAN EPSTEIN, WHY IT INCLUDES TARIFFS, AND EVEN SOME OF THE OVERREACH ON IMMIGRATION, ACCORDING TO LIBERTARIANS WHO DO WANT TO LOWER IMMIGRATION BUT SAY TRUMP IS ALREADY DOING IT THE WRONG WAY. THIS IS FROM THE BEAT, THE SPECIAL LOOK AT THAT ACCUMULATED BILE FROM THESE MAGA VOICES. MAKE SOME NOISE IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE JEFFREY EPSTEIN SCANDAL. WE'RE ALL ON STAGE DEMANDING THE RELEASE OF THE EPSTEIN CLIENTIST. IT IS TRUMP, AND IT IS HIS ADVISERS THAT HAVE GONE WITH THIS NARRATIVE OF THEM JUST SAYING FORGET ABOUT IT, MOVE ALONG. IT'S THE WAY THEY'VE HANDLED THE SCANDAL HAS BEEN SO BAD, YOU KNOW, LEADING EVERYBODY UP TO THE WATER'S EDGE AND THEN NOT GIVING ANYONE A DRINK. COMPLETELY AGREE. THIS IS SELF-INFLICTED. TRUMP HAS PUT HIS TARIFFS ALL OVER THE PLACE. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THEM I DON'T, HIS GIANT TARIFF POLICY THAT HE JUST DROPPED ON THE MARKET UNILATERALLY, PROBABLY UNCONSTITUTIONALLY. AND WE'RE GETTING FLOODED WITH THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF COMMENTS THAT ARE VERY UNHAPPY ABOUT THIS. PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS PRIMARILY TO GO AFTER THE DEEP STATE. WE WANT TO GO AFTER THE DEEP STATE, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU THINK YOUR BASE IS STUPID. THAT'S HOW I FEEL. I FEEL LIKE TRUMP THINKS HIS BASE IS STUPID. THEN THEY'RE KICKING STUDENTS OUT THAT LIKE WRITE ARTICLES THEY DON'T LIKE. YEAH, THAT'S NUTS. CRAZY. ISN'T A UNIVERSITY SUPPOSED TO BE A PLACE WHERE SOMEONE'S ALLOWED TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AND HAVE NONVIOLENTLY DEPORTING PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE WHO THEY'RE CRITICIZING? LIKE THAT GETS KIND OF SHIFTY. YOU GOTTA GET SCARED THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT CRIMINALS ARE GETTING LIKE LASSOED UP AND DEPORTED. IT'S HORRIFIC. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YOU GUYS ARE INVESTING IN CRYPTO OR STOCKS. WHAT THE IS GOING ON WITH OUR, WITH OUR COUNTRY, UM, GUYS, WHY AM I POOR? EVERYTHING'S IN THE BECAUSE OF IT. I'M DOWN 7 MILLION BUCKS AND STOCKS AND CRYPTO MAYBE DON'T BE ON THE GOLF COURSE. THREE TIMES I VOTED FOR THIS MAN. THIS IS BY FAR THE BIG FUMBLE OF THE ADMINISTRATION THEY'VE HAD THUS FAR. IT'S INDEFENSIBLE. IT'S INDEFENSIBLE THAT THE ANSWERS AREN'T THERE WHEN SO MUCH WAS PROMISED. THE CURRENT DOJ UNDER PAM BONDI IS COVERING UP CRIMES, VERY SERIOUS CRIMES. HER DAYS ARE NUMBERED AS A MEMBER OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. PAM BONDI NEEDS TO GO AT A MINIMUM. PAM BONDI NEEDS TO BE FIRED. WHO IS ROLLING THIS OUT? THE LITTLE RASCALS? IT'S VERY UPSETTING. IT'S EXTREMELY UPSETTING. THERE IS SOMETHING THERE. AND IT'S BEING COVERED UP AND THE PRESIDENT BLESSED IT. WE HAVE UH FLIGHT LOGS, WE HAVE INFORMATION, NAMES, UH, THAT WILL COME OUT. DON'T TELL US ALL THIS STUFF'S COMING OUT AND THE INVESTIGATION'S MASSIVE AND THE TRUMP WANTS IT RELEASED AND THEN SAY, OH, THERE'S NOTHING THERE. THIS STINKS. THIS, THIS JUST REEKS. SO I'M GONNA THROW UP ACTUALLY. THAT IS SO CRAZY. THIS IS LIKE THE, THIS IS HONESTLY ONE OF THE CRAZIEST THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. THIS SEEMS LIKE UNFORGIVABLE BEHAVIOR. IT'S STILL LIKE THIS. IT'S LIKE. SO I DON'T WANT A REVOLUTION, BUT IF YOU WANTED A REVOLUTION, THIS IS HOW YOU WOULD ACT. THAT WAS 2.5 MINUTES. TAKEN FROM HOURS AND HOURS AND NOT ALL OF IT WAS AT THAT PITCH. OUR BEAT PRODUCERS WORK HARD TO SHOW YOU THE CRISP KEY MOMENTS, BUT THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CONSERVATIVE MEDIA. WE WATCH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR COUNTRY, AND THERE'S THE GOVERNMENT AND THE POLITICS OF IT, THERE'S PEOPLE, BUT THEN THERE'S THIS MIDDLE SPACE OF MEDIA. I KNOW, YES, I'M ALSO IN THE MEDIA, WHAT THEY SOMETIMES CALL THE TRADITIONAL JOURNALISM MEDIA, BUT THIS MATTERS, AND THIS HAS SHIFTED A LOT OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS, LET ALONE 8, IF YOU GO BACK TO WHEN TRUMP WAS FIRST INAUGURATED. IT IS A DIFFERENT ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT FOR THE PODCASTERS AND A DIFFERENT INFORMATION ENVIRONMENT FOR THE PEOPLE. AND THOSE ARE A TON OF MEGA VOICES. AND WHAT STARTS WITH ONE ISSUE I SHOWED YOU PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE THEIR STOCKS TANKING, AND THEY TOLD THEIR LISTENERS ABOUT IT. AND THEN OPENS UP SPACE FOR OTHER ISSUES. JOE ROGAN SAYING HE DOESN'T WANT A COUNTRY WHERE SPEECH IS CENSORED, ESPECIALLY AFTER TRUMP AND MUSK SPENT ALL OF LAST YEAR CLAIMING THEY WOULD DO THE OPPOSITE, AND NOW THEY'VE BROKEN THOSE PLEDGES ON CAMPUS, LAW FIRMS, YOU NAME IT. AND THEN THIRD, THIS EPSTEIN THING WHICH COULD BECOME THE INFLECTION POINT. AND THIS IS WHAT HISTORIANS AND POLITICAL SCIENTISTS STUDY. IT'S NOT ALWAYS CLEAR IN ADVANCE OR DURING, BUT OVER TIME, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE A BREAKAGE. GEORGE W. BUSH GOT RE-ELECTED, JUST LIKE TRUMP DID, SERVES TWO TERMS, AND HELD ON THROUGH ALL KINDS OF SCANDALS. BUT, IF YOU REMEMBER HURRICANE KATRINA, THAT WAS THE BREAKING POINT. A PRESIDENT LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW AT DEVASTATION, OVERSEEING AN ADMINISTRATION THAT FAILED ON THE GROUND AND THEN MISLED OR LIED ABOUT IT THROUGHOUT, AND THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING CONSERVATIVES SAID ENOUGH. AND HE NEVER REALLY CAME BACK FROM IT. IT WAS HIS 2ND TERM, BUT IT MARKED THE BEGINNING OF THE POLITICAL END OF GEORGE W. BUSH, AS YOU MIGHT RECALL, WHO'S NOT POPULAR ON THE LEFT, THE CENTER, OR ON FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES ON THE RIGHT. BECAUSE WHAT KATRINA EXPLODED, OPENED UP A DIALOGUE ABOUT REAL FACTS AND FAILURES THAT HE COULD NEVER COME BACK FROM. NOW, IS EPSTEIN THAT INFLECTION POINT? I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, WE DON'T KNOW. WE WORK HARD HERE, WE TRY TO BRING YOU THE NEWS, WE CHECK THE SOURCES AND THE EVIDENCE. WE DON'T HAVE CRYSTAL. ALL ABILITY TO LOOK INTO THE FUTURE. BUT YOU CAN BET EVERYONE AROUND DONALD TRUMP, AND HE HAS SOME POLITICAL HEAVY HITTERS AND EXPERTS, THEY KNOW THE KATRINA HISTORY. THEY KNOW THAT HE HAS DODGED OTHER SCANDALS, BUT THIS ONE FEELS DIFFERENT. AND IF IT BREAKS, IT COULD BE A VERY DIFFERENT SECOND TERM. WE'RE GONNA FIT IN A BREAK. WHEN WE COME BACK, THE HEAT ON FLORIDA REPUBLICANS FOR GUTTING SCHOOL LUNCHES AND GUESS WHO'S COMING BACK? LIKE ME, YOU PROTEST WHERE YOU LIVE. THIS IS NEW YORK CITY. I'M GONNA GO HERE AND I'M GONNA COVER THE PROTEST. DON LEMON IS COMING UP TONIGHT ON THE BEAT. WE HAVE A VERY SPECIAL CITRUS EDITION OF FALLBACK. JOINING ME ARE OUR TWO SPECIAL GUESTS. FALLBACK DEBUT HERE BY EMMY-WINNING JOURNALIST DON LEMON. HE'S BEEN REPORTING ON SOME OF THE BIGGEST STORIES FOR DECADES ACROSS MANY ELITE PLATFORMS. YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID ZESTY SEGMENT, ZESTY. MANY NEW YORKERS ARE NOT CHANGING THEIR ROUTINES DESPITE THE LATEST TERROR WARNINGS. MORE SNOW FALLING HERE, AND HORSE LOVERS NATIONWIDE HAVE PUT UP MORE THAN $100,000. ARE YOU RACIST? THE LEAST RACIST PERSON THAT YOU HAVE EVER MET. WHAT DO YOU TALK ABOUT? AND PRETTY MUCH COOKING. THE FLAMES ARE POURING OUT OF THIS BUILDING. UH, FROM THE SERIOUS TO THE SESAME STREET TO THE FUN. THAT'S DON LEMON. YOU CAN CATCH THE DON LEMON SHOW ONLINE. HE'S OUT WITH A NEW MEMOIR I ONCE WAS LOST, MY SEARCH FOR GOD IN AMERICA. AND ANOTHER MEMOIRIST, VANITY FAIR'S MOLLY JUNG FAST, IS HERE. SHE DOES THE FAST POLITICS PODCAST. HOW TO LOSE YOUR MOTHER IS HER MEMOIR AND A NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER. WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU GUYS LOOK GREAT TOGETHER, DARK. THANK YOU. WE REALLY LIKE EACH OTHER. IT'S NICE SEEING YOU BACK IN THE DAY. I KNOW. WAS THAT FROM NBC'S THAT FOOTAGE OF THAT TODAY SHOW, YEAH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT. I WOULD LOVE TO GET THE ARCHIVE TO GO IN THE ARCHIVES AND GET SOME. I WAS LOOKING GET SOME OF THAT STORYLY COW. I WAS 12 YEARS OLD THEN AND LOOK AT YOU NOW. I KNOW, AS THEY SAY, MOLLY, LOOK AT ME NOW. LOOK AT ME NOW. I'M GETTING PAPER. THAT'S HOW, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY. DAWN. A, YOU'RE NOT LYING. DON IS DON'S GO TO. WHAT IS ON YOUR FALLBACK LIST? UH, FALLBACK LIST FOR ME IS CHARLIE KIRK TELLING A STUDENT THAT SHE SHOULD GO TO COLLEGE TO GET IT, BUT I THINK IT'S A MISS DEGREE AND NOT TO TRY TO GET IT. IT'S LIKE, CAN WE JUST GET RID OF. I DON'T EVER WANT TO HEAR FROM CHARLIE KIRK AGAIN. YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, AND ESPECIALLY WITH ADVICE LIKE THAT, AND ALSO BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT HE SAID ON JUNETEENTH, RIGHT? I'M GOING TO WORK. NOBODY SHOULD BE CELEBRATING THIS. SO CHARLIE KIRK, DO YOU THINK HE HAS BELIEFS OR IS JUST TROLLING FOR CLICKS? UH, I DON'T THINK HE HAS MUCH GOING ON UP THERE. I THINK IT'S PROBABLY TROLLING FOR CLICK. I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY SAY STUPID. CAN I SAY? SPEAK YOUR MIND. LIKE THAT, THEY KNOW BETTER. THIS JUST CLICKS. YEAH, YEAH. MOLLY, WHAT'S ON YOUR FALLBACK LIST? UM, MY FALLBACK IS BROWARD COUNTY, NO LONGER GIVING FREE PUBLIC SCHOOL LUNCHES, NOW RAISING THE PRICES. LOOK, THIS IS ONE OF THESE THINGS, UH, TIM WALLS, MY BUDDY, GOVERNOR OF, UH, MINNESOTA, GOT ON THE MAP FOR HIS FREE LUNCHES FOR KIDS, ALL KIDS, RICH KIDS, POOR KIDS, BECAUSE THE THING IS, GETTING A FREE LUNCH WILL MAKE YOU FEEL DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER KIDS. AND SO WE SHOULD, WE ARE A VERY RICH COUNTRY WITH A LOT OF RESOURCES. WE SHOULD BE FEEDING OUR CHILDREN LUNCH AND BREAKFAST, STRAIGHT UP, DESTIGMATIZE IT, AND IT'S NOT THAT EXPENSIVE. IT'S NOT THAT. YEAH. UH, WHAT ELSE IS ON YOUR FALLBACK LIST, DON? THIS IS SO WEIRD. BUT, BUT LIKE GUYS FALLING IN LOVE WITH AI BOTS AND TREATING THEM, YOU KNOW, OR, YOU KNOW, EVEN THEIR AI ON THEIR PHONE AND TREATING THEM AS IF IT'S LIKE THAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, IN LOVE WITH SOMEONE HAVING A PARTNER, A 2 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER, AND A GIRLFRIEND AND ALL THAT, WHATEVER. IT'S JUST REALLY BIZARRE. THIS GUY'S PROPOSING TO AN AI GIRLFRIEND. YEAH, IS THIS REALLY HAPPENING IS KIND OF HOW YOU FOLD IT, IT IS HAPPENING, BUT I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU GET FROM THAT EXCEPT IT'S A VOICE ON A PHONE, LIKE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WEIRD, YOU KNOW, HUMOR, YEAH, I MEAN, KIND OF, I MEAN, IT'S VERY FREAKY. I LOOK, I'M NOT, I LOOK, I, I AM NOT KINK SHAMING ANYBODY, BUT THIS IS WHAT THIS IS BEYOND. A KINK. WELL, IT GOES TO IT GOES, IT GOES TO WHERE SOCIETY'S HEADING, RIGHT? AND THERE ARE IN HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS, PEOPLE SOMETIMES DO MIRRORING, RIGHT? I KNOW THAT YOU LIKE, WHAT'S SO FUNNY. I WASN'T EVEN THE FUNNY PART. WHAT IS WHAT IS THIS SOME WEIRD KIND OF MIRRORING IS I KNOW YOU LIKE LEMON PUNS, WHICH I DO, AND I RUN INTO YOU AND I SAY, IT'S NOT JUST LEMON DROPS. WHAT ABOUT LEMON BARS? AND HE SAID, OH, THAT'S CUTE BECAUSE I'M ENGAGING WITH SOME PEOPLE DO SOME MIRRORING, BUT THERE'S A BACK AND FORTH. HUMANS STILL LOOK IN YOUR EYES. WE'RE STILL PEOPLE. A ROBOT THAT HAS NO ACTUAL HUMAN SOUL THAT MIRRORS EVERYTHING. THEY CALL IT GLAZING SOMETIMES, THESE AIS, THEY TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. YOU CAN SEE WHY THAT'S SUPERFICIALLY APPEALING, BUT IT'S NOT JUST. THAT YOU'RE NOT IN A HUMAN RELATIONSHIP. IT DISTORTS YOUR SENSE OF HOW INTERACTIONS SHOULD BE. YOU SHOULDN'T BE MIRRORED ALL THE TIME. OH, I, I LIKE BEING MIRRORED. I KNOW GLAZE. I MEAN, I'M SAYING, YEAH, YEAH, YOU'RE, I'LL JUST SAY THAT YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT I, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I JUST, I THINK THAT WE NEED MORE HUMAN. TOUCH AND COMPANIONSHIP AND COMPANY. WE NEED TO PUT THESE THINGS DOWN AND GO, GO OUT TO A BAR, DO SOMETHING CRAZY, EMBARRASS YOURSELF IN FRONT OF SOMEONE THAT YOU FIND CUTE OR BEAUTIFUL OR WHATEVER AND JUST BE, JUST BE WEIRD AND BE HUMAN BECAUSE THEN OTHERWISE YOU'RE WEIRD AND NOT HUMAN AND YOU START PROPOSING TO AI AND MOLLY, SOME OF THIS COMES BACK TO POLITICS AND POLICY LIKE WHETHER THERE ARE RULES. SO RIGHT NOW IT'S HARDER TO MAKE FAKE MONEY. THAN A FAKE PERSON. YOU GET IN TROUBLE. YOU CAN'T JUST LAUNCH A COMPANY AND SAY WE'RE PRINTING ALTERNATIVE DOLLAR BILLS. THAT'S ILLEGAL. BUT WE HAVEN'T CAUGHT UP IN CONGRESS OR THE RULES WITH THIS, YOU MIGHT SAY. THIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE WHO'S A MINOR. YOU MIGHT SAY A BOT THAT'S DESIGNED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU SHOULD BE REGULATED. LIKE, THIS SHOULDN'T JUST BE, YOU KNOW, WILD WEST OF AI LOVE. ARI WITH MY FAVORITE. THIS IS MY FAVORITE, FAVORITE, FAVORITE THING TO TALK ABOUT, WHICH IS CONGRESS DOES NOT REGULATE, AND THEY HAVE JUST DROPPED THE BALL. ON ANY REGULATION. THEY NEVER REGULATED FACEBOOK. THEY DON'T REGULATE THE INTERNET. THEY DON'T REGULATE TECHNOLOGY. WE ARE HEADING TOWARDS A DISASTER. OUR JOB IS WE COVER WHAT'S HAPPENING. IT'S HARDER TO COVER WHAT'S NOT HAPPENING. THAT'S NOT TYPICALLY HOW YOU BUILD A NEWS STORY, AND YET WE GOT MORE RULES FOR TRAINS THAN AI. THAT'S WHAT'S NOT HAPPENING, AND WE MAY ALL LIVE TO REGRET IT. BEFORE WE GET OUT OF HERE. WE LOVE HAVING YOU HERE, DON. YOU, YOU BROUGHT SOMETHING. WHAT DO YOU GOT? YOU, ARE YOU? I THOUGHT YOU WERE GONNA, YOU GUYS GET LIGHTERS. I TAKE ER. I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THESE. I NEED MORE SHAMELESS SHAMELESS PLUG. THIS IS FOR THE DON LEMON SHOW. WAIT, WHAT IS THIS IS FOR ARI. ALL RIGHT, NO, OK, SO ARI, I GOT THIS FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU NEED A BETTER MUG. OK, ALL RIGHT, MUG IS YOUR GIFT. DO YOU WEAR BASEBALL CAPS? SURE. SO YOU GOTTA WEAR IT IF I GIVE IT TO YOU. WELL, LET ME SEE IT FIRST. LEMON NATION. THAT'S WHAT I'M TELLING. REMEMBER WHAT I SAID. HE LOVES ANY, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A LEMON PUN AT A CERTAIN POINT IT'S JUST THE WORD LEMON WITH OTHER WORDS. WHAT WAS IT? YOU HAD A LAST NAME LEMON. WHAT WOULD YOU, WOULDN'T YOU MAKE THE, THE MOST OF IT? A YOUNG, A YOUNG JOE BIDEN BACK WHEN HE WAS IN HIS LATE 60S SAID WITH GIULIANI, EVERY SENTENCE IS A NOUN VERB IN 9/11. AND SO IT IS WITH LEMON. UH, LOVE YOU GUYS. THANKS FOR COMING THROUGH. I LOVE YOU, BUDDY. GOOD TO SEE YOU. AND THEN WE TURN TO JAMES CAMERON AND ENVIRONMENTALISM NEXT. PRESIDENT TRUMP TRYING TO GUT THE KEY RULES THAT COMBAT CLIMATE POLLUTION, PUSHING TO CLAIM THAT ENVIRONMENTAL AGENCIES NO LONGER HAVE TO REGULATE GAS EMISSIONS, A MOVE DESIGNED TO DERAIL ALL LIMITS ON CLIMATE POLLUTION. POLITICO REPORTS PUTS TRUMP OUT OF STEP WITH MOST PEOPLE WHO THINK THE US ISN'T DOING ENOUGH TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT. AND FROM POLITICS TO ART, MESSAGES ABOUT PROTECTING EARTH ACTUALLY PROVED POPULAR. ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR FILM SERIES EVER, AVATAR, TOUTS THE ENVIRONMENTALIST HEROES FIGHTING THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY NATURE. THE NEXT AVATAR INSTALLMENT ACTUALLY COMES OUT LATER THIS YEAR, DIRECTED, OF COURSE, BY THE OSCAR WINNER JAMES CAMERON, WHOSE FILMS EXPLORE ENVIRONMENTALISM, COLONIALISM, AND CLASSIC THEMES. OF NATURE VERSUS HUMANITY, THE FILMMAKER IS VERSED, OF COURSE, IN THE STORYTELLING ARTS AS WELL AS SCIENCE, AI, AND SCIENTIFIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL EXPLORATION, HELPING DESIGN THE DEEP SEA CHALLENGER AND EVEN PILOTING A SUBMERSIBLE SOLO TO THE DEEPEST KNOWN POINT OF THE OCEAN. HE IS OUR SUMMIT SERIES GUEST RIGHT NOW, AND WE BEGIN WITH THAT NATURAL WORLD. YOU FOCUSED ON THE GREEN ISSUES, OUR ENVIRONMENT, ANIMALS, THE LATER AVATARS REALLY MAKE US UNDERSTAND, WELL, WHAT ARE ANIMALS IF UH THEY HAVE MANY OF THE ATTRIBUTES WE ASSOCIATE WITH VALUE, UM, THEN HOW DO WE VALUE THEM OR NOT? AND THEN THE RISKS OF SUPPOSED PROGRESS, UM, MULTIPLE FILMS THAT LOOK AT TECHNOLOGY, WHICH WE'RE TOLD WILL BE GOOD. AND HOW IT CAN RUN AMOK, AI, UH, AND THE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY OF WEAPONRY. SO, DO, DO YOU FEEL IN A WAY, MR. CAMERON, LIKE YOU'RE CIRCLING ALWAYS THOSE ISSUES, OR IS THIS PROJECT SOMEHOW FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT PARTLY CAUSE IT DEALS WITH REAL HISTORY?

I THINK IT'S A WAY OF OF EXPRESSING MY ANGST AROUND THESE ISSUES IN A DIFFERENT WAY. EVEN TITANIC LOOKED AT THROUGH MY PERSONAL LENS IS ABOUT US PUTTING OUR FAITH IN TECHNOLOGY, OUR HUMOROUS AND ARROGANCE, AND I THINK THINKING THAT WE CAN DOMINATE NATURE. EVEN TITANIC. TO ME, IN MY MIND, IT WAS A METAPHOR FOR CLIMATE CHANGE. WE SEE IT IN FRONT OF US AND WE CAN'T TURN IN TIME AND JUST THE WAY THEY SAW AN ICEBERG COULDN'T RUN IN TIME. SO I'M ALWAYS CIRCLING THESE, THESE SAME THEMES, JUST EXPRESSING THEM IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

I WANT TO TURN ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, UM, TO THE UNIQUE BELOVED AVATAR SERIES, AND WE'RE GONNA SHOW BRIEFLY JUST SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS, UH, IN THE CULTURE. TAKE A LOOK. THE WAY OF WATER HAS NO BEGINNING AND NO END. THE GOLDEN GLOBE GOES TO UH, MR. JAMES CAMERON'S RAT. AS AVATAR BEATS TITANIC AT THE BOX OFFICE, IT'S A CASE OF DIRECTOR JAMES CAMERON TOPPING HIMSELF, AND THE OSCAR GOES TO. AVATAR, THE WAY OF WATER. DO YOU FEEL LIKE AVATAR IS EXCITING BECAUSE IT'S FANTASY AND IT'S ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE? OR DO YOU FEEL IT'S CONNECTED IN THIS DEEP WAY BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IT'S ABOUT US, AND WE SEE OURSELVES AND OUR HUMAN EARTH PROBLEMS, GO AHEAD.

ABSOLUTELY, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT, I THINK THE THE NEW FILM. UM, ISN'T QUITE AS SIMPLE AS THE PREVIOUS FILMS. I MEAN, FOR ME, EVEN THOUGH IT'S IT'S ESCAPISM AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO IT BECAUSE IT TRANSPORTS THEM TO ANOTHER WORLD AWAY FROM THEIR DAILY PROBLEMS, IT'S ALSO VERY MUCH ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT AND WARFARE AND HATRED AND TRAUMA AND ALL THE THINGS THAT WE, WE DEAL WITH. IT'S JUST SCIENCE FICTION GIVES YOU A LENS THAT SOFTENS IT A BIT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT SOMETIMES ART UH, SHOWS US MORE OF THE FUTURE THAN OTHER MEDIUMS. UH, WHAT KUBRICK OR YOU DID IN IN YOUR EARLY FILMS, UM, NOW WE'RE HERE WITH AI AND IT'S, IT'S UNCANNY AND OTHERS HAVE COMMENTED ON THIS, AND IT'S, IT'S ALMOST, IS IT THE POWER OF YOUR IMAGINATION OR WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THROUGH THE FICTIONAL PROCESS, YOU, YOU SHOW US WHAT'S, WHAT MIGHT BE COMING?

ARTHUR CLARKE, A FAMOUS SCIENCE FICTION WRITER, PREDICTED THE GEOSYNCHRONOUS TELECOMMUNICATIONS SATELLITE, I THINK 20 OR 30 YEARS BEFORE IT EXISTED BECAUSE OF HIS IMAGINATION, BUT HIS IMAGINATION WAS INFORMED BY SCIENCE. I'VE SPENT MY LIFE READING AND ENJOYING SCIENCE FICTION, BUT I ALSO STUDY SCIENCE. UM, I WORK WITH A LOT OF SCIENTISTS AND SO ON. I HAVE A DEEP RESPECT FOR, FOR SCIENCE. I LOVE TO LEARN. I'M VERY CURIOUS. SO TO ME, I THINK IT'S, IT'S ABOUT IMAGINATION, PUTTING TOGETHER PIECES THAT ARE THERE THAT WHERE WHERE FACTS AND DATA ARE KNOWN IN WAYS THAT THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T.

IN A WORD OR A SENSE, THE GREATEST THREAT TO THE EARTH RIGHT NOW IS THE HUMAN RACE HIROSHIMA MATTERS TODAY BECAUSE WE NEED TO REMEMBER THE LESSON OF HISTORY, IF WE'RE GONNA SURVIVE THE NEXT ROUND OF HISTORY. THE PROBLEM WITH RAPID TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGE IS OH MY GOD. UM, I THINK THE PACE AND THE UNCERTAINTY AND WHO'S DEVELOPING IT AND WHAT FOR WHAT REASONS. UH, IN THE FINAL THREE, GIVEN THAT YOU'VE INSPIRED SO MANY AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO, WHO GO INTO FILMMAKING AND, AND STORYTELLING THINKING ABOUT THE, THE WORLDS YOU'VE CREATED, UH, IS WHY WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THESE 3. FAILURE TO YOU MEANS I DON'T KNOW. IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. THERE WE GO. ALL RIGHT, NAILED IT. SUCCESS TO YOU MEANS SUCCESS TO ME IS COMMUNICATING AS AN ARTIST WHAT I HAVE IN MY MIND AND IMAGINATION TO OTHER PEOPLE, DOING THAT SUCCESSFULLY FOR MYSELF, TO MY SATISFACTION, AND REACHING THE SUMMIT MEANS. SET A GOAL THAT'S SO HIGH YOU CAN NEVER ACHIEVE IT SO THAT YOU FAIL ABOVE EVERYBODY ELSE. JAMES CAMERON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. IT'S BEEN A REAL TREAT FOR US. IT'S BEEN GOOD. I, I REALLY ENJOYED IT. THANKS, ARI. SOME REAL WISDOM THERE, WE ENJOYED IT TOO. YOU CAN SEE THAT AND OUR OTHER SUMMIT INTERVIEWS AT MSNBC.COM/SUMMIT. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK. IF YOU'RE IN NEW YORK THIS FALL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MEET RACHEL MADDOW IN PERSON? YOU CAN. MSNBC IS HOLDING AN MSNBC LIVE. IN MANHATTAN, THIS IS FOOTAGE FROM THE FIRST ONE WE DID. THE LINK ON YOUR SCREEN WILL TAKE YOU TO GET TICKETS IN OCTOBER. YOU ARE WATCHING LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, SORT OF HALF TWIST AND TURN RACIAL MATTER OR VICE VERSA. IN A DANCE MOVE, I ACTUALLY WAS IN THE ROOM AND I REMEMBER THAT CHARMING MOMENT. THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. YOU CAN SEE THE AUDIENCE OF MSNBC VIEWERS THERE. HONESTLY, WE HAD A GREAT TIME. ANDREW WEISSMAN, UH, JOINED ME FOR A SPECIAL CONVERSATION ABOUT LAW AND JUSTICE IN THESE TROUBLED TIMES. AND SO IN OCTOBER, WE'RE BRINGING IT BACK, AND IT'S THE FIRST TIME WE'RE DOING IT IN MANHATTAN. MSNBC LIVE 25 OCTOBER 11TH AT THE HAMMERSTEIN. BALLROOM, GREAT CONCERT VENUE. YOU CAN SEE JUST ABOUT EVERY ANCHOR YOU COULD THINK OF, DAYTIME, NIGHTTIME, WEEKEND. WE'RE ALL GONNA BE THERE AND MORE. SO GO TO THAT LINK MSNBC.COM/LIVE25 IF YOU WANT TO GET TICKETS FOR OCTOBER BEFORE THEY SELL OUT. AND IF YOU'RE TOO FAR AWAY, I GET IT, BUT MAYBE YOU KNOW SOMEONE IN NEW YORK AND YOU WANT TO TELL THEM ABOUT IT OR EVEN GIVE THEM A TICKET IF THAT'S IN YOUR WHEELHOUSE. AND IF IT'S NOT FOR YOU, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE. WE WILL BE HERE EVERY DAY AND NIGHT COVERING THE NEWS WITH YOU AS WE GO FORWARD. THANKS FOR WATCHING THE BEAT.