Transcription
Hey everybody, I'm Ashley Banfield, and this is Drop Dead Serious. And, um, I'm coming to you again from the Bahamas. Not just the Bahamas, the Abacos Islands. Not only that, Elbow Cay. This is Hope Town Inn and Marina where I'm coming to you from, and I keep saying their name, and they're not sponsoring me. I'm not saying that. I only just want you to know that I'm at an inn that is a marina, so you'll hear people dining, uh, not far off. I'll just show you. You might not see it, but the restaurant is right there. Super nice. So nice. Look at that candy stripe lighthouse. I mentioned it before in another episode. I think it's one of the only, or the only, um, uh, lighthouse that's operational right now that operates on kerosene and hand-cranked. I love that. I just showed it to you again 'cause it's really pretty. And it's a thing. It's a real tourist attraction. So, you'll hear some people dining, and every so often the ferry will come in and like park right there as well. So, you might see that, too.
Um, so, I've got great stuff for you today on the, uh, case of Lynette Hooker. She's missing. I mean, I don't want to say presumed dead, but they're using cadaver dogs, so missing and presumed dead at this point. Brian Hooker and Lynette Hooker, uh, were having a lovely day of drinking and fun off of their sailboat on land with a little dinghy to get them from the sailboat to land, and, um, she never made it back. And he didn't make it back to his keelboat, he says. She went overboard, and he floated 4 miles, uh, to the nearest shore and ended up beaching at 4:00 in the morning. There are a lot of things, um, about that that could be plausible, and a lot of things that don't add up. And today, I am going to tell you about a guy who spent the most time with Brian Hooker than just about anybody else, certainly that day, right?
Brian and Lynette Hooker went to the Abaco Inn on Elbow Cay for drinks. They got there around 4:30 in the afternoon on Saturday, April 4th, day before Easter. And there we are. There's the ferry I told you about. Um, and they had a few drinks for about 2 hours, 4:30 till about 6:30, 6:45, maybe, but not much later. He had said that he left around 7:00, 7:30. Left much earlier. Um, not only does the picture stamp that I showed yesterday prove it, uh, there they are sitting at the pool, 6:34. That came to us from Joe the fisherman who caught the massive wahoo and then shared that picture with me because he took that picture for his mom to show the beautiful waves and the beautiful environment and didn't realize he caught Brian and Lynette Hooker, and that might be the last known picture of, of Lynette Hooker alive. It was at 6:34 p.m. on the 4th, on Saturday the 4th. Then they're seen on, uh, surveillance video at around 6:38-ish. I didn't see the video, but Lynette's daughter and Lynette's daughter's boyfriend, Steve, saw the video, and they said that the timestamp had them leaving right around that time. So, you know, fishy. Anyway, I digress.
I want to tell you the things that Brian said to the fire and rescue officials who came and got him off the shore at 4:00 in the 5:00 in the morning, 5:30 in the morning, and then toured him around to try to find his wife and get back to his boat, etc., etc. He said a lot of things to them before he stopped talking at all. Because when the police started asking him questions, they asked 94 questions. Take a guess how many he answered. Four. He answered four questions, and then whoosh, stopped talking, lawyered up. Look, you have a right to remain silent, and you should. I always say you should. Uh, it's to protect the innocent, honestly. Anything can be used against you and twisted, so you got to protect yourself. But he stopped talking.
Just want you to see the merriment that you're hearing in the background, just so you're not missing anything. I don't want any FOMO. Anyway, uh, he didn't answer any more than four questions, but he sure as hell talked that morning on the fire and rescue boat. I shot these pictures, uh, with Lindsey when we went across. We used that little ferry that just left, and we went across, uh, to the other side. This is the marina, and the other side is where Hope Town is, and, uh, fire and rescue boat parks there all the time. And that is the boat, um, that the crew went out on that morning to start looking for Lynette and to rescue Brian from his, you know, uh, castaway position on the shore of Marsh Harbour.
So, listen. It's really important to know that Jim Todd is a hell of a guy. He's a volunteer fire and rescue, uh, employee, and, um, and just an all-around solid citizen, and that doesn't come from just me interviewing him. Everybody says that around here. It's a small island, and everybody knows each other. But this guy is a good guy, and he jumped into service, uh, first of all, early in the morning to, to do this emergency, but then also to stand on the bow of that search and rescue vessel with Brian Hooker as they were heading across to point out where this happened, right? Get in the boat. Let's cross over, but a 10-minute, uh, ride across the Sea of Abaco, show us where she went off, right? And the stories that Brian Hooker told Jim Todd on the front of the, the search and rescue, um, vessel, they're not the same as the stories that he told his friends on recording, right? And, and any which way he was talking on the phone with his, um, stepdaughter, uh, Lynette's daughter, Carly Ainsworth, and the, the, the recordings with his pals, the, the stories are different. And so, I love the fact that Jim Todd from fire and rescue gets up on the bow with Brian Hooker. The police are, you know, back behind him, and Jim knows you got to ask these questions early, right? 'Cause someone's going to lawyer up and never talk again. So, he started asking all the right questions, saying like, "Point exactly where did it happen? Where did the boat go over? Did it go over there? Did it go over there?" pointing to land. "Did it go over there in this vicinity?" And what Jim Todd got was that it was effectively about 150 yards offshore. Super shallow there, right? It's like maybe 6 feet. And about 1,000 yards that way was the, uh, keelboat. Was Soulmate, the, the, the 46-foot ketch that they, um, that they were living on. But they were taking the dinghy into Abaco Inn for lovely fun and drinks and sunshine in the pool. Um, and so, Jim asked all the right questions on the bow, and he got all the answers that were not the answers his friends got. And he also got demeanor. He just got the sense of what kind of person was he? How was he behaving just hours after washing up and just a matter of 12 hours before losing his wife, right? Presumably in waters that have sharks. Not a lot, but some, right?
Here's [snorts] a really critical, uh, piece of the puzzle. I interviewed Jim before we learned some critical new facts. Facts like a new timeline. You know, a photo that shows Lynette and Brian at the pool at 6:34, and surveillance video that Lynette's daughter saw, and says they were walking out of the Abaco Inn around 6:38 p.m. We don't know if they got all the way to the dock and into the boat and left, but we knew they were headed for the dock around 6:38 p.m., and that's a whole hour or more before Brian swears they left the Abaco Inn so close to dark that when she fell off the boat, it got so dark he couldn't see her. Yeah, so if you have an additional hour and 20 minutes of daylight, it kind of throws his whole story off. Not only that, we saw that Lynette was wearing a green bathing suit cover-up. Yeah, he didn't tell that to Jim on the front of the boat. He just said she was wearing a two-piece black bathing suit. He never said a word to anybody about Lynette's green cover-up, and that profoundly changed how Jim felt about Brian's story. Uh, and so, what you're about to see is Jim Todd's interview with me before he knew those facts. And then right after, you're going to see how his feelings changed about Brian Hooker once he learned the new information that did not jibe with the story he was being told on the boat, the timeline and the bathing suit cover-up. And I can tell you this, Jim Todd was not happy that he did not receive the information about the green cover-up, because that changes how search and rescue actually does their job, what they're looking for, who they're looking for, the, the text chain that goes out amongst them. It changes everything, right? He feels it's a misdirection on Brian's part. But wait until the end of Jim's interview because he also drops a few other pieces of information that are pretty damn critical and make a huge difference in this whole story that Brian Hooker has told. I want you to see now my conversation, um, with Jim Todd. He's again with the volunteer, the Hope Town volunteer fire and rescue service.
Take me from that first call you got Easter morning, um, Sunday, April 5th. So, just after 5:00, I got a call at home on our Hope Town fire and rescue network that there was, uh, an emergency, a missing woman. So, I went down to, um, our boat. I joined three other guys and we, uh, in communication with the police, uh, through telephone, voice message, uh, we had an idea of where to start searching. So, we left Hope Town Harbour and went down to the area between Elbow Cay and Lovers Quarters. We searched the northeastern shore of Lovers Quarters and then based on the direction of wind, we moved north just a little bit and followed the wind direction toward, um, the island of Great Abaco in the area of Marsh Harbour. And we understood that the police were at, uh, the boatyard at Marsh Harbour in Calcutta, and, uh, we hit the mainland in our search boat and turned south, went past Calcutta and where the police were searching the shore. Where that dinghy was. Uh, we did not see the dinghy on that trip 'cause it was too dark. Mhm. Um, no, excuse me. I'm sorry. We did see the dinghy on that trip. Uh, we saw, uh, Mr. Hooker and another person who turned out to be a police officer. And then we >> At the dinghy. >> At the dinghy. And then we returned to Calcutta, um, and, uh, they were joined by more police and, um, Brian Hooker.
So, this is around 5:30 in the morning? As I recall, we were out and I can definitely say we were out and searching before 5:45 and so we were probably still before prior to 6:00 when we were going into Calcutta for the first time. And so, once you've done this initial search, you end up with Brian Hooker on your vessel. Yeah, we did that initial search. We pulled into the boatyard. The, um, police and Brian and, uh, several police officers and Brian Hooker then went from, uh, the boatyard to his boat anchored off of Elbow Cay. So, you're going across the Sea of Abaco with him on board. What was your first initial impression when he was, uh, boarding, um, your, uh, fire and rescue boat? I happened to be the person who, uh, assisted him getting from the dock onto the boat and had very brief interaction and he struck me as, I would describe it as like he had been hit by a truck or was in shock and I thought to myself, well, he's, uh, been up going on 24 hours plus. So, that's, that's made sense to me. And, and it's been a, a terrible night. >> [clears throat] >> Um, this is the, the facts that you have at this early point. >> Yeah. Yeah. Hit by, yeah, hit by a truck is what came to mind. Were you able to talk to him at all when you were crossing, uh, from Marsh Harbour back over to Elbow Cay with him? The police were with us and so I wanted, well, all of us on fire and rescue wanted to keep our distance and let the police do what they were going to do. So, you now cross the Sea of Abaco, you're back over at Elbow Cay and do you go to the, the yacht that is moored there? I mean, or it's anchored actually. They've thrown anchor. Soulmate is just off of Aunt Pat's. Is that where you end up with him? Yep, it was in the approximate area of Aunt Pat's and we tied up the fire and rescue boat next to the, the vessel and the sailboat and, uh, Brian and a police officer went onto the boat for about an hour. So, you all stay, the fire and rescue and a couple of officers stay on the fire and rescue boat, which is now literally flush with Soulmate, tied up beside Soulmate and one investigating officer and Brian get up on board Soulmate. Yes. Do they stay in the cockpit area outside or do they go down below in the cabin? They went below. How long did they spend? It's hard for me to estimate, but I would say about an hour. About an hour down below. Mhm. And when they emerge, what's the next thing that happens? Um, there was some conversation that I couldn't hear. They both, both individuals came back on the fire and rescue boat and, um, then as we untie and separate from the boat, one of the police officers took pictures of the sailboat from 360 degrees. That's at the direction of the investigating officer to, to do so? Uh, yeah, he, I can't, I don't recall what he said, but it, he, he had an interaction with them. Take pictures all around the boat, the, what appeared to be the senior person or a senior person. And so, your search and rescue vessel now does a 360, uh, trip around Soulmate photographing every aspect of the, um, of Brian Hooker's yacht. >> Yes. And Brian and Lynette's yacht. And then where do you go next? We, I'm not sure why we, I was not privy to the conversation, but we went in the direction of where we understood, um, that the woman fell off of the boat and so we were in that area. Brian Hooker was on the front of the boat and I, I took it upon myself to go out and talk with him about exactly where he understood that to have happened. How long were you up on the front of the search and rescue vessel with Brian as you all sort of tried to establish where it was that he says she went overboard? Uh, I would say easily in the range of 10 minutes. Talking to him. Yeah, to say, "Okay, she fell off here. How close to land was that? Would she have, would she have swum in that direction or would she have swum in this direction?" It was that kind of conversation. And effectively, you're, you're trying to establish where did she go over, how close to land, and how close to the Soulmate yacht. I was more focused on just the simple context of where to look. I can't say that I cared about where the sailboat was. I was just thinking about where should we look if she went off here and we were this close to land, what part of land might it be and so where should we be looking? Were you able to establish that? Uh, no, as I got, well, I'll say as I tried to become more specific pointing at a particular piece of land. Could it be there or could it be a little bit further? Could it conceivably be behind, um, Brian said something along the effects of, "I, I can't, I, I'm not sure. It's just so confusing." Um, it may not have been precisely those words, but the demeanor and the effect of his comments were, it, it's, I can't be sure. It's just very confusing. The way Brian has told friends and, uh, accounts, it seems to authorities, he can't, he and Lynette came out, uh, from the Abaco Inn through the channel, took a left and started going south towards where Soulmate was anchored. Did he say how close he was to the channel when this incident allegedly happened? Yes, he told me that when he got to the, or when they got to the end of the channel, um, they turned left at the last piling in the channel. They did not go further out to where there is a channel buoy. For deeper seeking boats, boats have a more draft and need more deeper and need deeper water. >> Right. Uh, so, he, he said that he turned, uh, southward in the area of the last piling and I would have, I assumed that it was, uh, west of that last piling. How far out of the Abaco channel did he say he was when he had turned left? How far out had he made it before he says she fell overboard? Um, he didn't say it in the context of, uh, feet or yards, but I was standing on the bow of the search boat and I pointed to a piece of water and say, "You think it was right there?" And I would say it was in the range of 50 yards south of that, uh, last piling in the channel. Very, very close to the channel. Yeah, much closer, yeah, much closer to the channel than the, than to the boat. The sailboat. At any point did he think that he, she may have gone out in the channel? Um, nothing was said explicitly about that. At one, at one point, I asked, "Is it possible that it happened far enough east that she could have swum, um, southward on the inside of this little peninsula?" And again, he, he, he kind of shook his head more definitely no. Uh, but then, as was typical at that moment, he says, "It's just very con- confusing. I can't be sure." Did he ever tell you that the last time he saw Lynette, she was swimming for the yacht Soulmate? That was not said to me. He did say the last, he did say the last time he saw her, she was swimming, um, away from him. And frankly, in my memory, it, it was to the land, but I couldn't dispute it if some, if he had said it was to the sailboat. And at that point where you've established effectively more or less where Lynette allegedly went over. It's about 200 yards from shore? Uh, no, I would say it would be less. Maybe in the range of 100, 150 yards, maybe 100 yards. Not 200, that would be the long side. Pretty close. Reasonably close. But Soulmate is how many yards away? The yacht. Um, notably further and visually notably further. I've heard in the vicinity of a thousand yards. No, it could easily be that, right. I would say that's right. It's in that range. If I'm overboard in choppy water, I am swimming 150 yards before I choose to swim a thousand yards. I would say if somebody had had told me, well, someone was either swimming to the sailboat or to the land, I would say you're mistaken. They're not going to the sailboat, they're going to the land. Sailboat's too far. >> Far. The sailboat's too far and the land was right there. So at this point you've established where the alleged dinghy incident happened. He's unable to be very clear about where she was swimming. He definitely did not tell you the last I saw her she was swimming for the sailboat. I've heard that statement made. I don't recall him saying that to me. Is there anything else he said when, when you were up there for about 10 minutes on, on the bow of the fire and rescue boat? He said, um, no. No, it, it, it was all related in the neighborhood of what we've just said, I think. Just matter-of-fact. But unable to really pinpoint. Um, did he say he was drunk the night before and that's why he was having trouble remembering? Made no reference to, um, drinking. >> [clears throat] >> Uh, no, no reference to drinking at all. Any reference to why he couldn't pinpoint, um, the exact spot where it had happened? Because at 7:30, I've been out there, it's bright. It's, it's daylight. The sun hasn't set yet. You still have about a half hour until it's dark and it would be really hard to see someone. Right. No, no explanation of, um, um, why he couldn't see better. No explanation other than no explanation about how they got separated. It was, in my opinion, it was very windy and, uh, the darkness. If their times were wrong, if it was more like 8:00 instead of 7:30, I could see that being very dark. Um, but I wouldn't have expected that, uh, I, I, I wasn't there so I don't know, but I wouldn't have expected, uh, someone falling into the water versus the dinghy to become separated so quickly. But it, it, it's plausible. There's a lot of incidents in the story that are possible, plausible, but, but maybe not the number one possibility. And so, you know, you got to give benefit of the doubt at all times. Um, and in this particular instance, if Lynette were driving, if Lynette were driving and Brian says she was, uh, what's your theory on what would happen if you were to fall out of the boat when you have your hand on the tiller? On the throttle? Well, and I've actually seen this happen in a much different circumstance, but if somebody's sitting on the right side of the boat steering a tiller motor with their left hand, um, that's a big if 'cause I'm not sure of the circumstances here. Um, but if they're in that situation, somebody lost their balance and got bumped off, the most likely thing would be to hold on to the motor for some period of time as they went over the starboard side of the boat and the geometry of the wind and direction is such that the boat would have turned into the wind as the individual went over the side. And, um, as I pondered that, I thought that dinghy with that very small electric motor, I'm not sure of the size, but that dinghy with the very small electric motor would probably come to a stop very quickly. And it would be turned into the wind at that point because if she dragged the tiller, you know, towards her, then the boat would turn to the port side and go upwind. And so in that case, the, if somebody is in the water, then the dinghy would be upwind from them toward the wind and, um, it's impossible to say, but the wind would have at that, if what I describe is correct. >> Mhm. Um, then that would have blown the dinghy back towards her. Towards her. But if she was sitting on the other side of the boat, then my explanation would work against her. So I don't know. It's hard to tell. Of course, we weren't there. Her daughter says she never drove, that Brian would always drive. But I've seen a picture of her actually on the right side, on the right sort of pontoon, and she seems to be driving. She has her hand on the, the throttle and the tiller. Um, one thing I did notice though, is that the electric key does not have a wristlet. It's just a long string and Brian says she took it out with her. So what are the, what kind of a possibility is it that you've got your hand on the tiller 'cause Brian says she's driving, you're getting bounced out, you let go of the tiller and you grab the string that's hanging down from the electric key? I would say that the probability of what you describe of you're falling out and you grab the lanyard from the key, virtually impossible, that it's approaching an impossibility. Um, another curious thing is that if someone has, uh, been on shore enjoying themselves at a bar and they're in a dinghy that, um, maybe doesn't have, uh, a radio or a portable radio like most would. It seems an odd thing that someone would have put the wristlet on because it's, they're, they really were so close to the boat. It was only a 10-minute drive in the boat at, at most. >> The pictures, there isn't a wristlet on that key. It's just a straight string that hangs down. Right. You'd have to, you'd have to grab for it and and pull it out with you as you're being bounced out unexpectedly. >> It'd be very difficult to do that. >> Although normal safety procedures is that that would be attached to your wrist. >> If you're by yourself. So exactly this would happen. So the boat stops. >> If you're with someone in the boat, you don't want to take that key out with you and render them unable to come and get you. Well, who knows. Right. [laughter] So the other question is, Brian says she went out with the lanyard and the key and went out with the dry bag. So what are the, if you're driving, that's not a dry bag necessarily that you may be wearing. Maybe it is. I'd have to look at it. Um, but what are the chances that you're going to grab a dry bag and grab the lanyard and let go of the throttle and, and, and be bounced out unexpectedly? Um, when if you were to fall out of a boat, it happens so fast you don't have time to think of anything. So virtually unheard of that someone would have the presence of mind or the thought that, oh, I need to grab that. A couple of things on the way out. A couple of things, yeah. >> So quickly that you don't even, when something like that happens, you don't perceive it happening. You go from the state of driving the boat to the state of, Help me. Damn, I'm in the water. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to understand that that dry bag. I've seen a dry bag of a similar color and he has described a dry bag the same color as the seat cushion, green. And I've seen a picture of that dry bag in the boat. I'm not going to say it's the dry bag, I'm going to say a very similar looking dry bag in, in that, um, in that dinghy. That's the kind of bag that's big enough to see. It's not a small purse that you would take to a water slide, say. It's not that kind of dry bag. It's a dry bag that would probably float. Um, I happen to not have experience with using a dry bag, but I know that it's sealed for water. And if there was a big puff of air inside, I can see that it would float and at some point in the searching operations, uh, well, when we found the green cushion, Brian said, "Oh, look for the green dry bag as well." Which of course we did look in that area of the cushion and did not find the bag, the dry bag. >> Expect to have found the dry bag, uh, if it went overboard again? It's got passports in it. It's got critical things in it. Not sure why they would have taken the passports to shore, but okay. Um, it's going to be sealed if your passports are in it, if you're in a dinghy. Sealed from the water, absolutely. >> Would, would you not expect that you would find either find the dry bag wash up on shore or be able to see a dry bag that's this big, you know, it's about a foot, a foot long by about a, uh, a foot and a half long by about a foot wide. Would you not see it in that very shallow water? Well, if it floated, I would certainly expect it to be in the range, in the area of that green cushion. If it sank, the water geography gets really large very quickly and it's very hard to find things underwater. Uh, something that bright though? Something that's that bright green? Yeah, I, I guess I, if it had sunk, I would put the probability of finding a sunken dry bag, even bright, at fairly low.
So, the next thing, um, you do is you leave that location that you have tried to determine where this incident happened, where Lynette fell over. Mhm. Tell me where you go from there. You've got police officers on board, you've got fire and rescue on board, and you've got Brian on board. Where do you go from there? So, we go westward toward the, um, island of Great Abaco Island, the area of, uh, Calcutta. Where he says he drifted the whole way, the 9 hours of drifting. >> Right. And we are, well, me personally, I'm aware of the wind and testing the reasonableness of that, simply in the context of where we should be looking. Should we be looking on Lubbers Quarters, which is nearer, or could, could he have cleared it? >> Could he have cleared Lubbers Quarters and then gone to Great Abaco Island? And either one is, is very reasonable to me. And to be clear, Great Abaco Island is where Marsh Harbour is. Yeah, we typically call it, um, the area here around here as Marsh Harbour, but it's a, a larger island. Um, and in fact, we frequently refer to that island as the mainland. Uh, so, we go back with Mr. Hooker, with police officers, we get in the same range of where we, uh, where his dinghy was, we turn south, and, uh, reinspect that shoreline, and at some point, one of my colleagues on search and rescue, uh, hands me binoculars up to the top of the boat and says, "Jim, check out that, uh, well, we see that green thing over there, could it be a float?" Uh, using the binoculars, it looked like, uh, yes, could easily be a float. Um, it was a little bit hard to identify for shape because of the reasonably great distance of, oh, probably easy 100 yards because it was shallow and extremely rough on that shore. Um, so, it was a, it was a reasonable possibility that, yeah, that was it. And though I was not, uh, I don't believe I was present, I think there was conversation among Brian Hooker and the search and rescue people to say, okay, that's a possibility that that could be the float. >> Did Brian take the binoculars and look and see if that was his float? I did not see that take place. And to be clear, the, the float that we're talking about is the float that Brian says, in many different, um, uh, formats, whether it's to friends or to police, he threw the green float to her and did not know whether she ever got it because he said she was bobbing between 2 to 3 foot seas. Did it seem like they were 2 to 3 foot seas possible at 7:30, 7:45 at night, uh, just 150 yards offshore from Elbow Cay? To me, that's reasonable. I happen to be in that area at a restaurant with my wife and daughter and granddaughter, and at about that time frame, between 7:30 and 8:00, I happen to have a clear memory of the time because I arrived late, just before 7:30, and it was getting dark and very quickly, as I sat at the dinner table, the wind kicked up to the point that it was a, a touch unpleasant. And so, I knew it would be rough out there, and it would be an evening where no one would be out on the Sea of Abaco in their boat. This is, is it at 7:30 or 8:00 when you notice that this is getting bad out there? Well, I'll say that I arrived at the dinner table, which was outside, uh, very shortly before 7:30, and, uh, it was a short time later that I noticed how windy it was. Could it have been 7:45? Um, yes, but it could have been 8:00 also. Okay. At some point, but it was getting dark. Yes. I've noticed it's, uh, 7:45, not so bad. It's dusk, but at 8:00, dark. So, somewhere in between there. Yeah. Yeah, it's dark. >> And you would say that's bad out there. You didn't see a lot of boaters either at that time, right? >> I would expect to see zero boaters out there on that night. To me, it was rough enough that no boater should be out. But yet, there would still be people on anchor. Yeah. Uh, oh, yeah. When I say no one should be out there on a boat, I mean a boat underway. But, uh, a sailboat or a powerboat on anchor, um, it was not bad weather. It was not dangerous weather for boats that were anchored. You would want to stay on your boat to be safe. You wouldn't have wanted to be in the 8-foot dinghy that Brian and Lynette Hooker had that night at 7:30 to 8:00 at night, 150 yards offshore from Elbow Cay. For me, it would be a definite no. Yeah. Well, that's saying a lot. You're, you know, you're fire and rescue. Think all those natural products you're buying are from wholesome mom-and-pop companies? Eh, not quite. 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You know, you know a thing or two about boating. You've lived in this community long enough. Yeah. Yeah. Back to the shore, um, did Brian ever identify that green cushion? Was he able to ever look up on shore and say, "That's it"? Uh, on that Sunday, on that first Sunday, uh, he saw it at a distance and expressed something of, "That could be it." Um, on Tuesday, on Monday, I was not able to search. On Tuesday, my wife and I were able to search. We went over in our boat, got in our car, and drove to the area of where we saw the cushion, and in fact, we found it. And, and he confirmed, Brian confirmed that's it. Yeah, he confirmed that is definitely it. And, uh, there was a kind of an odd break, uh, where one might grab it, almost like a handle, where it was broken. Um, in other pictures I've seen of their dinghy, I can see that float with that broken handle, and because I saw that handle broken, I, when we found it, I asked Mr. Hooker if he saw his wife grab it, and he said no, he did not see his wife grab it when he threw it. Did he mention 2 to 3 foot seas? I don't recall him mentioning 2 to 3 foot seas to me. 1 to 2 foot seas? Or, or anything about the seas? Yeah. I can't say, yeah, nothing about the height of the seas, but, um, it would have been common con- conversation talking about how rough it was. Did he ever say, "I saw her and then she disappeared, and I, I lost track of seeing her in between the waves"? The only thing he, he said in the context of what he saw, he, he said, "I saw her swimming away." But he couldn't say away to land or away to the yacht. Well, when I talked to him on the front of the boat on early on Sunday morning, and it was daylight, I was very explicit to say, to point at a body of water, "This is where you think it happened." And he said, "Yeah, it's con- it's confusing. That's the area." And described the last piling in the channel. And I pointed at the shore in three different places because it's the shore was so close. It was obvious, it seemed obvious to me that if she didn't come right for the dinghy, then you would go, go for the shore. Um, I pointed to three areas of the shore, and his response was more along the lines of, "I just can't say for sure. It's confusing." Um, >> But never said, "No, not shore. She was going the other way to the yacht." I do not recall that at all. That's cur- That's correct. I do not recall that. >> Because one direction is she's swimming west to shore, or she's swimming south to the boat, and he can't articulate either one. Well, I would say if she was swimming to the shore, she was swimming southwest. Okay. And if she was swimming to the boat, then that would have been, let's call it perfectly perpendicular to the shore, rather than Mhm. an angle directly to the shore. >> Could not articulate that. That regarding the, regarding the land, the comment was, uh, this is confusing. Uh, I, I just can't say. I just don't know. So, you had another opportunity to be, um, with Brian after this, this entire day that you'd spent with him. Talk to me about the next time you spent time with Brian. So, later in the day, um, it may have been noon, it may have been 1:00. I got a message that Brian would need a ride back from, um, the Marsh Harbour area to his boat, and the request went out, who's available? Well, I was available, so I went to, uh, Calcutta, where we had originally met the police. So, being on a Sunday, it was, uh, quiet, particularly at, uh, such a windy weather day, there was not a lot going on. So, I went in, tied up, waited, uh, just a very minutes, and the police came and dropped him off. Um, I walked with him on opposite side, opposite side to of the fence to the entryway on a Sunday. And then we walked, uh, a pretty good distance back to the car. First thing he said to me was, "In your experience, uh, how often do you find the person alive?" And I told him that every case is different. I'll be honest that I haven't been on a lot of these cases. Looking for a body. >> Looking for a body. But you didn't want to say that. You didn't want to upset him. Uh, that's right. And, you know, obviously every case is different. Um, so, we go, get on the boat, we discover in the course of the 15-minute ride back to his boat that we're both, uh, in the from the West Michigan area. And I felt awkward having casual conversation with someone who very likely lost his wife in 12 hours earlier. Uh, his demeanor struck me as someone, I think I may have said it earlier, as someone who was in shock and had been hit by a car. Hit by a truck, and, and was despondent. His demeanor was subdued and despondent. Devastated? Well, I would extrapolate from that, and I, I did think to myself that if I was in a similar situation with my wife, I would be, um, inconsolable and unable to function. People would have to be with me to Hold you up. >> Hold me together. And, uh, that's not what his demeanor was, and, you know, everybody is different, but, uh, that I did notice that. So, did you have much conversation as you did that crossing to, to get him over to the Soulmate yacht? The, that's his home. The Soulmate yacht is where he lives, so. No, we had, um, I tried to, I guess you might say I threaded the needle of pleasant conversation to minimal conversation because of, I certainly don't want to be chatty when he's dealing with whatever he's dealing with. So, it was mostly quiet, but I asked, uh, you know, where he was from and, and where he kept his boat in, in Michigan, uh, how long he'd been sailing. He said at one point, he said, "I don't even want to sail anymore." With, and what was unsaid, without his wife. He said, "I don't even want to sail anymore." And that's certainly understandable and reasonable. Under those circumstances. When you reached Soulmate to drop him off, what happened next? Um, I tied up on the boat for just a minute as he scrambled onto his boat. Um, I don't remember how they initiate the conversation initially started, but he was concerned about retrieving his dinghy that was still on the beach. And, uh, it was too, the weather was too rough to get access to the dinghy. It was just, it was too dangerous. And, uh, so, I >> Dinghy back over on Marsh Harbour, 4 miles away. Right. Yeah, across Abaco Sea. Yeah, it's too, it's way too dangerous to retrieve it by water. Uh, and so, I, we traded numbers and telephone numbers, and I told him that I would reach out to people who, uh, may have the ability and the time to assist him on the following day. You gave him contacts to help get the, the dinghy back. Yeah. I think I, what I actually did is I took his contact information and sent it to someone. Yeah. Did he ask though about what's happening now and how can I get connected to the search efforts and be a part of it, and, you know, who's in command? Did he ask those questions? Um, on that day, on Sunday, I don't recall him asking those kind of questions. We may have talked about people searching in different areas. Um, but we didn't have any significant conversation about it. I may have commented on people searching different areas, but there was no in-depth comment. Did he ask for contact information to get to Coast Guard search and rescue, anybody who'd be trying to find his wife? Not on Sunday, on that first day. >> Listen, Sunday is, is, like you said, within 12 hours of this all happening. Um, That's right. But he didn't, he didn't ask what's happening. What's happening in the search? Where do I contact someone about this? I do not recall him asking that, asking me that. That's correct. >> Is that odd? Well, again, I could only put myself in that position, and I think I would have been desperate to know how many boats are out there. Where are they? I'm now back on my big boat. Who's going to come pick me up to take me out? And maybe it's unfair for me to take my feelings and to project them onto him. But that's certainly how I would have felt. You want to know what, what's happening with the mission. And, and be very actively a part of it. Makes sense. Was there any point in all of your time that you spent with, um, Brian Hooker in those days after Lynette allegedly went overboard, where you saw a moment of emotion, even understanding some people are stoic, he's a US Marine. Was there any point where you saw just something that showed, um, a man in, in, you know, emotional distress? Yeah. Um, and particularly kind of an extreme expression. When we had left his boat with the police officers, we had come back to the Marsh Harbour area. We had done the search to find and saw what would we then learn was the green float. We dropped the police and him off in, uh, the boat harbor, um, for them, him then to go with the police for a 4-5 hour interview session, I presume. Um, when they got back up off of the fire and rescue boat onto the dock, I saw him, uh, double over, put his hands on his knees with a face, uh, with an expression of agony on his face, hanging his head, and just, uh, a silent, a silent cry of agony on his face. And then, uh, approximately that time, not immediately, but that same time frame, he was then standing up straight and looked up at the sky, and I don't mean to say he was looking up at the sky in any meaningful, um, metaphysical way, but was looking skyward, and I saw what was clearly a sign, a silent sob of agony. Was there about a half dozen, uh, police officers and, um, fire and rescue personnel who were in the vicinity? Yes. Were, was this in direct view? I mean, I always ask, was this performative? Did he want people to see him doing this? Did he have his back to them? Um, if you had to gauge, did he want people to see this, or was he trying to hide himself from people seeing this? What would you say? It, I don't want to gauge that, but I'll say kind of the geography was that, uh, he had gotten up on the dock. The police officers were primarily over his left shoulder, and I was primarily over his right shoulder. And, uh, I happened to be watching him, so I saw those things. Um, I, I can't say for sure, but it felt like the police officers happened to have not been watching him, and I would say they happened to have not observed that. But that's just my snapshot of my memory. Would, would they have been able to see this? Like, did, was Brian positioned in a way that the police officers could see his agonized look, or did he try to hide that agony from the, like, were the officers behind him?
And unable to see his face? They were behind him, and if it was not genuine, well, they were behind him, and it would not be likely that they would be able to see the front of his face. They would have seen his silhouette from the back. But, you happen to be kind of in front of him, so you could see.
>> My angle was that I could see. And it was It struck me as a terrible moment and sincere. It struck you as sincere in the moment. Um Was there any other observation that you made uh in all of this time that stood out to you or that you thought was noteworthy?
Um Nothing comes to mind. On Monday afternoon, Brian reached out and uh texted me with uh a question about searching, and I felt like it was a request for me to take him out searching, and I wasn't in a position to do that. And I suggested that he contact the uh Conch Inn, which was where his boat where he had near where he had relocated his boat. He had a mooring ball there. He was actually um he and Lynette spent a lot of time. They paid for a mooring ball at the Conch Inn. Right. And those those people have deep connection. They're They're local Bahamians. They have deep deep connections, and I felt like that would be a great place for him to start if he wanted to charter a 30-ft boat with a captain to then take him wherever he wanted to go.
Any idea if he did? I I never heard about anything like that. Did Brian at any point say what Lynette was wearing when she went overboard?
Yes. On um Sunday morning, there was a lot of description a lot of discussion about the description of the individual we were looking for. And uh it was a black bikini or a black two-piece bathing suit is what she was wearing. That's what we were searching for.
>> Bathing suit cover-up? No conversation about a cover-up at all. But, repeatedly, a black two-piece bathing suit.
One question a lot of people have, especially people who aren't from here and think, well, it's the Bahamas, there must be sharks. Is there uh a robust um Is there robust shark activity in the area where Brian alleges Lynette went off the boat?
Uh In the precise area where she went off, I have never seen any sharks. And I think, in fact, sharks are not I don't know why sharks are not attracted to people swimming in the water because they don't look like food to them. But, if someone if it was a body rather than a swimmer, uh I think that might look different to a shark, and between uh as you approach the mainland on what that journey of the dinghy would have been, some of the locals say, "Oh, yeah, that's that's kind of sharks do go through there." And the speculation was it's possible she was eaten by a shark. That's in the the sea in the middle of the Sea of Abacos there say past uh Lubbers Quarters? Is that what you mean?
West of Lubbers Quarters. West of Lubbers Quarters um meaning if she followed the same track that Brian fo- uh went, uh she would have drifted past Lubbers Quarters into the area where they say there's a
>> Right. Where there's sharks where there's sharks in transit one place or another um where sharks go. But, again, uh this we have a shark bite incident multiple years apart, so they're not commonly around. It's again possible, not totally plausible.
>> Right. Yeah. Jim, things have changed since our last conversation at the Hopetown Inn and Marina. There's new information from the timestamps and the video that Lynette's daughter, Carly, and her boyfriend, Steve, saw that show Lynette and Brian walking out of the Abaco Inn and towards the dock at 6:38-ish. That changes things for you.
Yeah, it really does. It changes it a lot because um the initial story of uh leaving at 7:30 plus, maybe I gave some grace to say that 7:30 could easily become 7:45, and then as you approach 8:00, uh it's very dark at 8:00. But, if the departure was notably earlier, and really I'm saying now what I'm describing is if the departure was from 6:45, really all the way up to 7:30, then that's different. Uh the first version was leaving at dusk going to dark. But, the new timestamp might make it from daylight going to dusk, and that's really completely uh different equation. And uh some of the things of the story just don't hold up.
Um Well, listen, uh the the the dinghy ride out of the White Sound Channel away from the Abaco Inn out the White Sound Channel, take a left, head towards Soulmate, that whole dinghy ride's around 10 to 15 minutes. And if you're leaving, and again, I got to be careful cuz we don't yet know. They're leaving the Inn. We don't see the video of them getting in the boat and going. Maybe they went for a walk. Maybe they had a chat on the dock. Maybe they sat on the beach for a bit. But, if they went right to the boat and got into that dinghy and took off, that would put them at the spot where he said they that Lynette went over at maybe maybe 6:00 50. Let's just say 6:55. And I could get a suntan at that time.
Um yeah, absolutely. And I think um I've had a thought that maybe is a little bit independent of a dependence on the timestamp of that video. Anyone who's been uh on a sailboat for a long time, anybody who's been around the water, anybody who has um a fragile craft is going to be careful to not go out in darkness. So, I can't imagine someone uh not being ti- I mean, it's it's well known that sailors watch the weather. They watch the sun go down. They avoid going out at night. It's just It's just not done in a fragile craft. There's no reason to press it, and there's no moon that night. I think the moon came up at 10:00 p.m. So, If he's heading up that White Sound Channel at around 6:50, it's 6:50 p.m. where you are right now as we are recording this, and it is a bright sun behind you.
>> That's That's my >> That means there's no way you would lose sight of someone in the water as though it were too dark to see, not for almost another hour. That's right. It's total daylight here. Total daylight. And >> Like, bright daylight. Yeah. Yeah. Um and it and it will be for another 45 minutes.
Um and I think the >> And that's a lot of grace. 45 minutes, that's a lot of grace because again, it's only about a 15-minute trip max in that little two to four horsepower from the Abaco Inn to the Soulmate where it was uh anchored. And And to me, here's a dilemma that's unanswerable or a problem either way.
Um Brian said that his wife was driving the dinghy. All right. And uh I understand that his her daughter, Carly, said has said that that he he didn't let her drive the dinghy. Well, he probably did. He happened to mention to me when I was uh with him and returning him from Marsh Harbour to his boat, he happened to mention to me as a point of pride, as a point of independence, that his boat uh Soulmate had not been tied up to a dock in a marina in 2 years. In 2 years, it had always been on a mooring ball or at anchor. Well, if the boat has been for 2 years on a mooring ball at at anchor, Lynette would have learned how to drive the boat. Maybe she didn't drive it a lot, but she would have been competent at it. Um That's just a reality of being on a sailboat for 2 years. So, now let's go back to that night at approximately 6:30 or 6:45 or 7:00. Sure, typically men drive uh of a sailing couple, the man might be the one most common to drive the dinghy. But, if a man were to pass the controls over to his wife, that would be an indication that the water was very safe. That it was daylight. Here's a good time. Here's a nice occasion for the wife to take the controls, and I can relax. So, if she was driving, it would have been in hospitable conditions.
If >> even thought of that, but you're right. I mean, listen, I'm a proficient boater, and I think if Chris and I got in the dinghy me and the and the the weather was rough, I probably would have seated that to him cuz you just have to be a little stronger holding on even to that little light engine. You just have to be a little bit stronger.
>> Yes, that's exactly right. And so if it was getting a little dark, if it was very windy, like I feel like it could have been at least later, then he would have said, "I'm going to drive." 99.9% of all men would say, "This is tough. I'm going to drive." And he says 2 to 4-ft seas, Jim. He says 2 to 4-ft seas. In that, by the way, neither of them would have been driving in 2 to 4-ft seas in that little dinghy, but let's just say they got caught in 2 to 4-ft seas when they came out of White Sound Channel. I do I do believe you're right. I don't think that the weaker person, be it a man or a woman, would have been at the helm. I think the stronger US Marine would have said, "Let me take over here. This could be This could be hairy. Get us out."
>> Absolutely. I would go so strong so far as to say, "No way in bad weather would he not be at the controls." And if There's another the assertion that she was at the controls means that the weather was was nice. And then >> Yeah. to me, that's sort of the the dilemma question. If she was at the control in nice weather and she goes overboard, he can see her. There's none of the mitigating circumstance of dark as ink, uh high waves, lose sight of her quickly. All of those things that sort of make sense. They don't exist if she was driving. He could have seen her. And no one no one without panic and no one without panic is not going to throw an anchor out. The anchor is in the bottom of the dinghy getting in the way. It It It's impossible to the anchor wasn't stowed and I didn't think of it. I didn't see it. The anchor is in the bottom of the dinghy in the way. In daylight It's right at your feet.
>> Yeah. It's actually hard to step around. It's big.
>> It's a It's a big anchor, about, you know, yay big. It's It's big and it's in your way.
>> In daylight without panic and without intoxication, then that everybody will do exactly that, throw out the anchor. Maybe with a little frustration. Maybe with a little, "Ugh, damn it. We got a little situation to resolve." In good weather. If she was driving and it was good weather, it would be hardly an almost a non-event. Throw out the anchor, she swims to the boat.
Um Let me ask you another issue about uh his story that I think has changed since we've learned more from our prior interview. Since we spoke with you last, we learned from the last known photo of Linette alive that she was wearing a uh a light green bathing suit cover-up. That's not something we knew before. What did Brian tell you when you asked him, very specifically, as a search and rescue representative, "What was your wife wearing when you last saw her?"
Yeah. Yeah, on Sunday morning early in the vicinity of um 6:30 or 7:00 out in the area uh out in the area where he said the incident took place, me and others are on the dock and we repeat what we had already been told, "What was she wearing?" And a two-piece The answer was a two-piece black bathing suit. I'm I'm 100% confident that that's what he said. Partially because when he said that and I'll be honest, shame on me, when he said that, I thought, "That's odd." Uh women less than 30 don't walk around at a little at a seaside place like the Abaco Inn um with no Without a cover-up. So that struck me as odd, but I wasn't thinking Obviously, I wasn't thinking investigation. I was thinking um Experience.
>> Just just what are we looking for? He said it was a two-piece black bathing suit and so we did. Now as I as I >> Did he say that Did he say that multiple times?
Um what I mean, he must have been asked multiple times, "What was the last thing you remember seeing her in? What was she wearing?" And never once did he say anything other than a two-piece black bathing suit.
>> That's right. The only thing I can attest to is I I clearly remember uh one time on the bow of the search boat. Um now I heard it as a searcher multiple times, I heard him say it one time. And What does that mean, "I heard it as a searcher multiple"? Tell me about that.
>> as a searcher, people telling each other, "What are we looking for?" Um we have a text message that says uh "Woman fell over, black bathing suit." That kind of thing. But no green cover-up.
>> No green cover-up at all from beginning to end. So he didn't say it to you that she was wearing a green cover-up and he didn't say it to anybody else of record that she was wearing a green cover-up so that that could get into the zeitgeist and help people find her. If he said it to somebody else, it did not get into the zeitgeist.
Yeah, and it would have, right? It would have. If he'd said it to someone else in the search team or with the police, you all would have you would have known.
>> Yeah, and on that morning, that was a critical incident. Maybe to the good is that because he said um the float that we were looking for was a bright green, we were attuned to green. So if we had seen the green cover-up, then we would have zeroed in on it because it looked like the float. So I don't think that we actually lost an opportunity to search effectively, but um he definitely uh on Sunday morning said nothing about a cover-up. It was only a black two-piece.
The I want to drill down a little more than we did last interview and that is that he mentioned to you he was absolutely not intoxicated. Like you Characterize for me the discussion about, you know, when he was all confused and didn't know where she went over and couldn't really pinpoint the location. Did you talk about alcohol? And And if so, what did he say?
We did not talk about alcohol. He did express that confusion and uh not being able to figure out what happened, as you say. I concluded that he must have been very intoxicated. It was the demeanor of someone who may have been very intoxicated. Then subsequently, when I unders- came to understand that um they apparently only had two drinks spread out over a period of time. And when Ken, the bartender, said that uh I would When I'm I'm characterizing Ken's words, uh no, I wouldn't call him drunk, maybe tipsy at most.
Um That makes me think that >> That surprised you. That makes me think that, okay, he was sober and functional and anybody in that boat would have been able to perform effectively. For example, we found out another important point to me was that uh you told me that um there were two life jackets in the boat. Well, in the bottom of the dinghy.
>> bottom of the dinghy. He would know that. They know that there's two life jackets there. In good weather or really bad, but in good weather, something happens, he threw this green cushion that's so flat, it would have sailed like a sheet of paper. Well, there's another life jacket there. You could pick that up and throw it sideways, kind of like a a discus. And it would have more force, so you could get more distance on it. Or Or I'll give you another scenario. If the PF, you know, if if the life jacket is too late and it feels like a sail, put it on, grab the other one, jump overboard, swim to her, worry about the dinghy later. You're both safe and you both get to shore, no problem. Or put your life jacket on, grab the other one, grab the other end of the anchor line because the anchor's in the boat and you'll be able to keep it, you know, keep it close to you and jump over. None of that happened.
>> Well, that's I would look for the painter. I would look for the the the line that you tie up to the dock and I would tie it around my ankle and swim out to the person. Yeah, I My scenario is slightly different, but what you describe is exactly right. Um you throw it If the green thing was close at hand, you throw that. You would immediately see that it flew into the air and didn't do anything. You grab the second one. Throw it like a discus. You would have gotten some distance. Y- If that's not effective, again, Throw the Throw the second life jacket.
>> would I would grab the last life jacket and go over the side. And go over. You're only 150 yd from shore. You're a US Marine. You can manage this. Don't worry about the dinghy. You're not going to be in the middle of the ocean and both die. You're going to get her, pull her to shore, and then hopefully the next morning flag someone down and say, "Help us and let's find our dinghy. It's probably over on Lovers."
>> Yeah, that's the problem with she was driving and so it must have been uh reasonably good weather where you could see. And so they could see each other. And so worst case, grab the life the last life jacket and go over the side because you're only 10 ft apart. So I don't I can't explain it either, but I'm glad that we have been able to have this second interview since our first because again, I didn't want to put your interview out um at the time you didn't know the information, neither did I. We found out subsequent, so it's changed the dynamic of of how you feel. Is there anything else you want to add? Jim?
>> Yeah. Well, we already essentially covered it. In in anything other than black and panic and they weren't as we understand there wasn't enough alcohol to create panic and confusion, I don't think. Um the obvious thing for anybody in the boat is to throw the anchor. It's so overwhelmingly obvious everybody would do it. The other is short of panic and not being able to see the boat, nobody would ever swim away from the boat. If she's been around boats it's it's just impossible that she would swim away from the boat. Um blackness, total panic, his voice is gone sure, who knows what's going to happen. Um but with her driving and him sober it I don't believe it was that black as pitch night scenario that I initially evolved to. Yeah. Um you know, it's like when we first started to searching um we went with the most logical action and I think that that made sense. A woman is over the side where what do we know about where is or where it could be and we searched that. Um complicated theories didn't make sense compared to that. Well, time has passed and now we've sort of switched regarding what the complicated theory is. If you accept the story, you have to suspend belief on so many things that don't add up and the obvious the original obvious thing is the one that is requires so much disbelief.
Jim, thank you. I I can't tell you how much this means to not just me but our viewers but also I think to the US Coast Guard investigators who are looking at every one of these inconsistencies.
>> Well, hopefully hopefully it all comes to to something. It was very meaningful to see your video of Carlie. Uh and to see her um suffering. She she's lost her mom. Regardless of the circumstances she's lost her mom and that could have been my two daughters. And the community here uh you know, they feel like they feel a connection to Linette now and could have been our sister, could have been our mother, could have been our daughter, could have been our wife. And uh there's there's a lot of um love and compassion going toward Linette and her family. They deserve justice. Thank you so much Jim.
>> My pleasure. I want you to see what happened on Saturday, April 18th. Saturday, April 18th is the two-week mark from the day that Linette was last seen alive at the Abaco Inn. These ladies these these women that got together and they don't know Linette, they just decided she deserved a tribute in flowers on the sea of Abaco. They held a little service. They've shown me the video and they've allowed me to send it to Linette's daughter Carlie and Linette's mom Darlene but they didn't want to publicize the the service that they held. They gave a few words and essentially just said that you know, we didn't know you Linette but we feel you deserve a tribute and they donated these flowers, they donated the boat. Couple of the women who were on board said a few words and put these flowers into the sea of Abaco in a tribute to Linette. And I cannot think of anything more kind and sweet and fitting and it really does tell you about the people on Elbow Cay. They just they're like this, they're just really really nice.