Transcription
Good. Okay. Uh, so welcome to Season with Grace, episode 5. Uh, yeah, there we go. Welcome to Season with Grace, episode 5. Uh, today, first, I want to establish a few things before we get into our topic because I think our topic is going to, going to, you know, uh, it's going to challenge some uh. Is it not coming up? I don't see it yet.
We're going.
Is it on? And it's on the screen?
Well, uh, that's what this code.
Oh, my bad. Sorry. If we're live.
Nobody said we're technical.
No, we didn't say. Yeah. Yeah, we're good. We're good. I don't know why it popped up yet. So, uh, anyway, so Season Five, uh, or episode five of Season with Grace. So, I just want to establish the same thing, the same commonality of ground, right? We believe one Father, one Son, Christ, born of a virgin, uh, lived 33 years, persecuted and crucified under Pontius Pilate, went to the grave, raised after three days, left us with the Holy Spirit, and He will return again.
Yeah.
So, I want to get that common ground. And then I want to say something else. If somebody started talking about my bride, I'm going to react badly.
Yeah.
I say that for this reason. We're going to talk a little bit about the church. And it says clearly in scripture that the church is the bride of Christ.
And so I just want to caution anybody. You may have opinions, and we may talk about an opinion, but at no point do we want to slander the bride of Christ.
So I just want, you know what I'm saying? I just want to be able to establish that because it's important for us to hold it in reverence. If we believe in, in, in the word, and we believe what it says in Ephesians 4, it says that we're being raised to the fullness of the stature of Christ Jesus. Other parts in, in, uh, scripture says that He's coming back for a bride without spot or wrinkle.
So, I just want to say that because my topic, it's my turn to pick the topic, and I know that it's going to, it's going to cause some interesting conversation.
Thank you.
And, and I've, I've been saved seven years. I, I went to church a couple times whenever I was a kid. There were some people that poured into me, uh, that tried to take me to church and get me involved in stuff, but it just never, it was never something I wanted to do. So, I wouldn't say that I was raised in the church. I would say that I, in West Texas, I was brought up around the church.
Yeah.
And, uh, I say that because my topic is, why are so many people leaving the church?
And so I want to kind of toss it around, and I want to do it from a few perspectives. One, I know my perspective is different because I entered into this looking for church in a specific way. And I don't want to say I haven't found amazing churches. I have found amazing churches. I found amazing pastors. I found so many amazing people within different church bodies, but there's still this idea. There's still an idea of a church from my perspective that I keep looking for.
Yeah.
And, and I know it's founding community. Uh, one of the most beautiful things I'll say is the best church that I found is the simple, small one whenever we ate at Wingstop.
Oh, yeah.
Or whenever we go with our families after church every Sunday.
Oh, yeah. And I, and so there's something about that where God has spoken to me about that is that's the beauty of the church, the small community. But the broader scope is, uh, I wanted, I want to kind of put a dream out that I had whenever I first, after I first got saved, and I was trying to find this church, and then I'm going to pass it around.
Okay.
So, uh, so about, I got saved seven years ago. So about six and a half years ago, I was looking for something, uh, within the church, and I, I went church hopping. I was trying to get plugged in. I was trying to get under, and I was trying to find people that I could connect with. And I had a dream, and in my dream, there were these two men. One was a father, and one was a son, and they were both pastors. And then there was this woman. She was an Ethiopian woman with red hair. I'll never forget. She was beautiful. Like the kind of beautiful that's just like timeless beautiful. And I was in love with her in my dream. Like, in love with her. And then the, the father pastor started teaching the son how to groom her. And when I say groom, I mean like a pimp grooms a hoe.
And so the father pastor is teaching the the the son pastor how to groom this hoe that I'm in love with.
Mhm.
I'm in love with her. And so then whenever she finally comes, and I get some of her attention, and I start trying to engage with her, and we start to get intimate, her responses were fake and groomed. It was a groomed response, and it left me leaving empty because I was in love with her. And so I woke up from this dream, and then this is what the Lord said. And so forgive me if anybody, you know, however they feel about it, it's just what the Lord said. He said, "My church has been made a whore."
She's been groomed for her responses, and whenever I try to engage with her, there's no intimacy.
That's about right.
And so, so that, so that was a very profound. He's known that. He told me never to tell anybody the dream. Uh.
It was the way it was said. If you, they would have heard the real way that you told me when you first. I omitted that part.
Your Season with Grace. So he did.
There you go.
We don't want.
The Season with Grace. That was a beautiful story. And I, I, I just want to tell you that there is a scripture that talks about a prophet that married a harlot.
Hosea.
Hosea. And the reason why is so that God could show His people what they look like. But He was married to them. And I believe that that has gone on in even in the earth. So watch this. This is what the Lord started showing me while you were talking is that when the Lord, when Jesus was, He was 40 days in the wilderness, and then He was tempted of the devil.
Mhm.
The devil never came to Him without some form of truth. And if He would have taken it, He would have still received the end result of what the word says in that lie, but He would have fallen from His purpose on the earth. I believe, and this is coming from me, that the, that the church has opted out of the sacrifice of saying, "It is written," going with the written word, and they're going with, "If you be God, if God is with you, make these stones bread." Let's go for the miracle.
I'll take that miracle. And now look at God. Oh, the miracle. And then He, "If you be God, cast yourself off, and these angels will bring you up." If you fall off, don't worry, you're going to still be okay. Prove the, the, it has gone from the, the truth with a lie. And the Bible says, "The form of godliness, denying the power thereof," and such as turn away from that situation. That I believe that the church has stepped into a layer of lies.
And has become comfortable. The Bible also says in the last days, they would have itching ears to hear good stuff. They want to hear good things. They want to. And I believe that the church, I'm talking about the raw, unadulterated, this is the way we're supposed to be, we're supposed to follow after Christ, is becoming extinct. And it's now spreading into the, the, the bride is now spreading from a building that we're supposed to assemble at to back to the homes.
I'm telling you.
Yeah. Yeah. No, no.
Cuz we're salt. We're spread like the salt of the earth.
There's so much that you just said. There's like two or three huge things that you said. One is, you were a good liar like me, right?
Straight up.
So listen, I got to believe the lie, and most of it's got to be true to get anybody else to buy into it. That's right. Cuz I got to have some facts.
That's right.
I got to be able to back it up with facts. That's right.
So that you'll buy into my lie. And so that's what He does. Listen, in the garden, He says, "If you eat this, you'll be like God." There's truth in that because you'll be about your own glory. I, me, my selfish, self-seeking, self-centeredness is rooted in, I'm now about my own glory. The difference is, God is about His own glory, and He will have His glory. However, He's also love.
Yeah.
And so it was that, that's why Christ fulfilled the righteous crime and law. I say that because.
It has to be. He, listen, He uses the same tactic. Nothing new under the sun.
That's right.
And He uses the exact same tactic over and over and over. What? Whenever you were talking, you said, uh, you said, you said something. I'm going to, I'm going to, I want to hear what they say before I say this next thing because it's going to take us in a whole another.
Yeah.
Man, I'm. You want to go?
No, go ahead.
I, I want to, but I'm like.
First off, man, this one just hit me, cuz.
Yeah, let me take this out, cuz.
Let me tell you why. Um, first off, in front, even in before God, I do repent for the way I, for the way I treat, I, I treated His bride. Um, I started pastoring and, and, and having this title and preaching sermons and, and standing behind the pulpit and, and entrusted, and, um, defending the bride. Uh, everything that I seen wrong, like, man, you, they're leaving cuz you don't accept, and they, they got to be in a suit and tie, and they coming in hoodies. I, I started trying to, and I did. My intentions were to, to defend the bride, but somewhere down, I, I mishandled the bride and, and I left a black eye on the bride on my actions.
That's good.
And I mishandled my bride in real life. And, uh, and that's why it kind of bothers me because God is, um, I know that I'm not qualified to hold His bride's hand again. And He's given, I already feel Him handing me this beautiful hand and saying, "Take care of my sheep." Just like with Peter, I feel it in my hand like God is going to allow me again to have another chance to, to love His bride and to, uh, groom His bride the right way.
And so I, I'm that, I'm that abusive husband, husband that it was. And, you know, I started off right. I believe, my intentions were right because I seen so many leave the church when you said, "Why they leaving?" Um, where we come from the trenches, like, we didn't really fit in unless we dressed the way you dressed, remember? And, you know, so we, we even put the suit and the tie to feel like we, we was in. But, um, and so when we, we had the opportunity to lead, we were like, "Man, come as you are." And I, I believe that was real because we're meeting, uh, people that, that came from our background, where they was at. But some of it became, some of it on my half became, uh, religious. Some of it became, um, my, my personal conviction became so passionate that that it began to hurt others. And I know that now.
Um, good. And, and it bothers me because, like I said, I, I left the beautiful bride with a black eye with my actions. I left my family with a black eye. Yes, it heals. And I'm grateful.
I'm just grateful that God's given me another chance to, uh, to be a part of what He's doing, uh, in the return, preparing, right? Because I feel like now, like I'm, I'm, I'm delicate with her hands again, like I don't want to, I don't want to hurt her. You know what I mean? And I'm learning how to, how to love her again, love my wife again, love God's people again, and, uh, I know where I messed up. And I'm just grateful for that because I don't know, I don't want to put a bad taste in someone's mouth and saying, "This is living water," and then when they leave, they say, "It was polluted the whole time." You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to do that, man. I want to be able to say like, "There was a man, I tasted the love of Jesus from this family," and I, I pray in my get up, I pray in this season of healing that that's what they see, like, "Man, God." You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't over. The covenant with God. He was like, "It ain't over. I'm going to show you how to love me. I'm going to show you how to love her. I'm going to show you how to love them." And so when you said that, I'm like, "Man, I want to be the reason that people come closer to Christ." The Jesus in me, He drawing people, not pushing people away.
Come on, man. Come on. That's good.
Because I, I did miss, I did let a lot of people down where they, they, like you said, they don't want to come back to the church house because they were like, "Man, but a lot of it."
Was a trial and error, too, in my, in my growth, you know. You know, I think, uh, uh, the reason here, I'll be honest. The reason why a lot of people are leaving their church is because, um, because of the lack of, uh, honesty in the church. Now, hear me. What I mean by that is, I was, uh, I never thought that I could achieve anything. Um, I looked at the church, the, the men in the church as this thing. Like they, they wore suits and ties. They had, they were on point. Like there, there would have been no way you'd have been able to tell me Deacon Such-and-Such was dealing with this or dealing with that because we also didn't talk about it. Now, I know we go back to this thing and talk about it. But what I'm saying is the, the lack of laying it all out before people and giving the full context of what it means to walk with a man of God, uh, walk as a man of God or a woman of God without it being fully laid out of us being human, having to walk through this thing, paints this perfect picture of it. So the moment that, uh, uh, I give my life to Christ, I, I can start, it can start to become performative because I can't even really talk about the real issues that I'm dealing with or struggling with or how to navigate through those. And so it makes it hard to where I go, "You know what? If I have to achieve this, work these things out, and all of that, I'm failing at it." I preached from the pulpit for a long time believing the whole time I was going to hell.
Dang.
Because I was like, "I can't get these things right, and I can't share these things because I'll be kicked out of the church," is what I believed.
Yeah.
So, I would go up and preach these things to people in hopes that they would catch it and not mess up the same way that I messed up.
Yes.
Right. And so, please don't mess up. Like, listen, I messed up. It's a, it's messed up for me. It's a wrap for me. Like.
I'm doomed. But.
This might sound crazy. This is really what I thought at all.
And I was like, "But I pray that y'all catch it and get it right so that y'all will go to heaven, man."
And because of that, because of that, it, I started getting to a point where I was like,
Bro, I cannot achieve this, um, perfection that the church is asking me to do. Um, because they're all perfect. I'm not. There are great, faithful, honest husbands, good fathers, good mothers, good this, good friends, and everything, and I'm not. And, uh, I don't fit in with them. Um, and from the standpoint of, I can't be perfect like them. And so.
It made me fall back a little bit where I was like, "I can't achieve that." So what I'm saying is, why my perspective of why people start to fall away from the church is because we start preaching to these people this perfection, and we paint this picture, and we only share the highlights. A lot of people don't go online and share their ugly picture of them. They share the picture of where they just got their haircut and where they look the nicest and everything. And so there's always this perfectly painted picture for people of their lives, and nobody ever gets to the real conversations. What has helped me grow is having real, raw conversations and honesty and saying, "Hey, listen." You know, having pe having men coming to us and say, "Hey, listen, Lee. Uh, I'm struggling with, uh, uh, with lust today. I'm struggling with, I'm struggling with this today." And us being able to counsel them through it instead of saying like, "Hey, man, look, you need to throw, you need to give that to God and get rid of that." And boom. And that's how I felt like the church was for a long time. And it made me want to back away from the church. And it made me, you know what it made me do? It made me secretly sin and then come over here like, "Hey, I'm here for church." And then go secretly deal with my sin. There's no excuse. But what I'm saying is, I think that that can contribute to people going like, "I don't know if I can achieve that." And so not, not necessarily leave the church, but walk into it and say, and try to go find a place where they fit in.
And it ain't at the church, or they don't feel like it does at the church. So, so for me.
That's a perspective.
And I think it's beautiful. I think for me, it's a perspective, and it's also testimony. So there's power in that, right?
Uh, whenever he said earlier, he said, "People aren't hearing the truth, and we're saying stuff that'll tickle ears, and we're clockwashers, right?"
And so what the, what came to my mind is this. Not everybody's called to do everything within the church. And I think that's where we fall short is we have, uh, all leadership hinging on one, one calling or one gift of Christ. In Ephesians 4, where it says there were gifts given by Christ, uh, for a specific reason. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, preacher, and or pastor and teacher. And then there's all kinds of debates in that, or all this crap. But this is what I'll say is the, an evangelist for me, what I, what I believe an evangelist is, is an evangelist is, for me, modern day, that's going to be your Christian rappers to, to touch the majority. I'm not saying it's the only evangelist because there's other evangelists that are needed for different cultures and different areas. But for America, for Western culture right now, what I see for this generation, the greatest form of evangelism, because it's the word, and it's testimony, and it's something that meets them where they are, is Christian rap. I'm not a Christian rapper.
And so I have no reason to say that other than I believe God spoke that to me. He spoke the word evangelist whenever I was listening to Christian rap, and it made perfect sense to me because what is an evangelist meant to do? So for me, and there may be some great theological discussion that can happen on this, but the way I understand it, because I understand battlefield more than anything else, is this. An evangelist, if I want to take Abilene, Texas, that's where we're at. We're in Abilene. And if I want to take the city, the first thing I'm going to do, I'm talking from a warfare perspective, is I'm going to send artillery, and I'm gonna bomb it. And so I'm going to do that to soften up any big targets so that then the regular grunts, the soldiers, the tanks, they can roll in, mop everything up, get everything gathered, and then start taking care of all of that. Right. So for me, the evangelist is the artillery and the bombers.
Wow.
It's the, you send an evangelist into a city, and they're, they're heavy hitters. You got powerful one-liners. You got, you got the big altar call where people are coming, they're laying down their weed, they're laying down their dope, they're laying down their money, they're making the big confession. There's, and I believe an evangelist needs to be anointed in miracle signs and wonders.
I was just.
Because, because miracle signs and wonders follow them that believe, which is the evangelist. But also miracles are so that they would believe. Every time I see miracles in scripture, it inspires transformation in an entire city.
That's right.
And that's what happens. So I think an evangelist comes in and it does that. Right. And that, so apostolic vision, what is an apostle? Right. Not the Christian version, the actual version. An apostle was a Roman, uh, architect for, for lack of a better expression. They would go in. Paul of, uh, Cyprus, right? He was, uh, uh, Asian from Asia Minor. And so what happened is when Rome took that over, they didn't leave an entire containing force. They left a small force with an apostle. That apostle brought brothels. They brought the Coliseum. They brought Roman culture, and they transformed that part of Asia Minor into Rome.
Yeah.
They changed the culture from the culture of Asia Minor to the culture of Rome. So you have to have, I believe, apostolic influence and insight for strategy. This is, and, and so that there can be a team working together that says, "Okay, this is how we're going to do this. We're going to move. We're going to go in. We're going to start connecting with all the churches in that city. Then we're going to send in an evangelist. The prophetic is going to help confirm everything of the apostolic. It's going to help build up and edify in faith."
Then after the evangelist comes in and does all the bombing and the heavy lifting, you got 50,000 people saved, 20,000 healed, whatever. I hope those numbers happen, you know.
Uh, then there, there are already partnerships with the pastors and the teachers so that then there can be discipleship, pastoring to lead me to still waters and green pastures. Meaning I'm a sheep, and I don't know when I'm in a storm.
Yeah.
That's why I need a pastor. I don't know that it's about a storm. The pastor does. So, He's going to take me to a place I may not be wanting to go, but I'm willing to follow because I know His voice. And then I'm made to lay down, and I get refreshed in that place because of my submission to His authority. And then I'm going to be taught these deeper things of the word. I'm going to seek out understanding. And so for me, I think that what I found most organizations aren't operating with what I find in scripture. That's just, I'm not saying like one church or this church. I'm saying as a whole, as a people, there's no unity because we don't have the true apostolic voices there. It's, you know, it's, I can divide, I could divide Christianity quicker than I can divide Crips and Bloods.
Wow.
I promise you that. You know.
I can guarantee right now, there's people that would agree on gangster on our live feed right now before they would agree on some of the stuff.
That was the, you just went to where exactly what I was getting ready to say. The other part of it is the division is what is why a lot of people leave because listen, you, you come in, and you already have had a hard time being accepted and this and that, and then you come in, and there's this group, and there's that group, and there's this group, and you're just trying to find your way, like most of the time, right? But the division that I'm talking about, uh, in the church, that makes it so it, it's, uh, why you started us this whole thing off talking about like, I'm not going to talk about the bride and everything. So when I say the church in this context, I'm talking about the church building, right?
Yeah.
The division, one of the biggest divisions is the church building.
And the, uh, guys hitting the streets, and they always want to say like, "Man, they need to get out of the four walls and they need to go out." And you want to know the crazy thing about it is, uh, when I was lost, none of those guys showed up. None of those guys came and brought the gospel to me right where I was. I had to walk into the church.
That was where I first found my help, right? But so what I'm saying is, we cause this division where there's absolutely no, no reason for it. The church had helped build me up. And then when God built me up and grew me in this area, I went out and I had such an appreciation for both that I never talk bad about either. I think what you're doing by going out is super powerful. And thank God for those people. But I also think, go send them to a church where they can be pastored. It can be pastored. Evangelize them.
Exactly. And so that division that you're talking about starts within a church, and people see it.
You're not tricking people. And going, and they go, "Hey, you know, I was talking to Brother Dale the other day, and he was telling me." They go, "Oh, you was talking to Brother Dale?"
Yeah.
People pick up on that right away, and they go, "Oh, what's wrong with Dale? Well, maybe I shouldn't hang out with Dale. Maybe I shouldn't get. Oh, you went to that church? Well, maybe I shouldn't go." And then so now people go, "Man, then then when they go back and talk to their homeboy about church, they go, 'Man, I ain't going to lie to you. It's wild in there.
It's this. It's that. I want to talk to nobody likes each other. Nobody. I'm going to be honest with you. I'd rather just watch church online."
And so we cause this, this division makes people start to go this way or go that way because, and we're online arguing about it.
Yeah.
You think people, listen, I'm telling you, people, some people reach out all the time. Since we've come together like this, I've seen people that profess faith say the most vile stuff against people.
I have. Listen, I have had more problems. Listen, I've had more problems with people in the church than I've ever had with people in the streets.
That's real.
It isn't even, it isn't even close to being equal. And, and the pride of that, and, and the, and the silliness of that is crazy to me because most of the time, I really just want to get to a place of resolution.
So, can I talk about a route?
I've had more forgiveness in the streets than I had.
Oh, absolutely. 100%. Listen, for sure. For sure. And here's the other part of it. And you want to know why people won't not just leave the church, but won't come into the church is because they see the arguing. And when I get messages from family members and stuff that's still back there to go, "Hey, bro, I've seen what Such-and-Such said. You want me to do something?" I'm like, "Bro, you, uh, you taking shots or this, this, and this." And has family members asking like, "Hey, you need me to do something about?" And you ain't winning souls that way because now they're looking at it like, "Oh, no." And I go, "No, no, no. He's just a brother that, he, a brother, he in the church. Right? So you people are looking at this, watching this, seeing this, and you think you're doing some righteous thing by, and you're not. You're actually causing people to go, "You know what? That's the church."
That's not what I want.
I don't want nothing to do with that. In fact, y'all make me want to hurt people in the church. Right? So it's all of these factors, not just people leaving the church, but people coming into the church. And people are leaving the church for the same exact things because the, God forbid you ever mess up because you are.
Going to be crazy, completely killed for it. Completely disowned for it, completely. And it had you in a place,
Especially if you've ever fallen, where you go,
Man, God, will I ever be accepted again? And it ain't even, God's like, "Yeah."
Yeah.
But the pe, so many people have said, "You'll start going, maybe I'm not, maybe I'm not forgiven by God no more. Maybe I can never come back. Maybe I can never get back up." And you'll get people in that place.
That'll take their own life.
And this is happening within the church. And so now, so you'll get people to walk away from the church because they messed up. You get people who will never come back into the church because they see us fighting and division. And, and we believe, and, and here's the real truth. Those people believe that they're going to be, that they're God's fa, there, there's God's anointed child of God because I corrected them in this moment. And boom. And bam. And look what I did. But the scripture says, "If you, if you are guilty of making these little ones fall."
Yeah. Right.
So we're, we're taking a, we're taking a instead of trying to build them up.
As Galatians says, we're tearing them down.
But, but I still go in that. I believe that deception is real.
I agree.
And I have to be grateful for them to feeling, this is me personally.
Yeah.
I have to find a place of gratitude for them feeling so convicted by God. There's a guy right now that runs anything we say through an AI deal. Comes up with this really deal. It's very, uh, persuasive. He puts it out online and then breaks down why we're wrong about everything, and that we're especially me, that I'm a false teacher, and this, and this, and this. And my truth is,
Man, he's so convicted and propelled by what he believes in that I have to be like, "Man, I, I can commend you for at least having boldness in what you think is faith." And this is what I say is, "You can, I'm okay with you saying those things. My thing is, I'm going to seek God out in the morning. I hope you're seeking God out in the morning. And I hope at one point we're reconciled in a relationship." Although we've never had one. I've never even had a conversation with the guy. I can hope that at one point we get to have that conversation.
And then he goes on and you're an idiot. You go, "Okay."
Yeah. And so listen, I've only been saved seven years, but I'll.
No, I'm talking about he'll attack you after you try to make peace.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
For sure. But then, but that's the point. Listen, that gets to my point.
Yeah.
My point is this. I think everything has a root. And the root of it would be in the apostolic.
Mhm.
I think the apostolic has been pushed into, not a twisted version, not all the way around, but I think so the, the apostolic is a job, is a description, not a title. I think prophet is a description, not a title. Pastor is a description, not a title. You see what I'm saying? And so, and what it would be, Paul says that we've been put on procession at the end.
Made the least of these. That's what it is to have an apostolic call. So there's not the elevation. And then there's apostolic suffering. So you have people, I think that lead these organizations into those directions against things, and they think they're, they're convicted by God. They're, but there's no apostolic influence, influence to shift to the kingdom, the culture of heaven. That's what kingdom culture, right? But the culture of heaven. How do we get to the culture of heaven? Jesus says it clear, the least shall be first.
Yeah.
And so, so if, if the, if the apostolic is at the head of that, that hierarchical structure, then that means they're actually at the tail end and underneath it, that they would come absolutely at least laying down their life for it. And in that, it would be reflected in those cities that they took, that there would be apostolic influence over the kingdom believers that would lay down their life for those ascending. And then listen, and there's time for pastors. Listen, it, when you take sheep, don't want to go to the next pastor, even though it's good for them, they got to get herded and whipped a little bit, you know what I'm saying? And so there needs to be that truth where where the pastors are driving them to it.
But.
I heard a pastor once say one time, one of the most powerful sermons I've ever heard preached to be about trans homosexuality. He said, "If we're not meeting them with love, grace, and then truth, we're missing the."
Yeah.
Because if I don't, if I don't meet it out with love. So, so for someone to give me that truth, I'm going to be drawn to it. But we know, cuz we're in discipleship, if there's not a level of, you can cut them, you can punch them in the mouth of truth, and they're going to pick up on it. But at one point, the only thing that's going to set them free is knowing that we love them. The, the thing that matters the most in this ministry, particularly for them to have absolute healing, is for them to figure out one, that we love them, and two, let us.
And that's the hardest thing for them to grab onto, and it only comes through us laying down our life.
And so I think we get, and I'm not saying I say we because we means me.
There's times whenever.
I'm tired of coming last.
There's times when I'm tired of somebody doing me helping, and somebody running their mouth, or people attacking us thinking that because they're trying to build up what they're doing, so they're going to come and attack what we're doing. And there's times when I get fed up with it. And what I believe believers, we get as ministry leaders, you get fed up with it. And so, you're trying to identify what does it look like to meet grace and mercy, but not walk together, but then I don't want to see this dude. You know, you know what I mean? And so it's like, uh.
You.
What.
You know, I'm honing in on, like, I keep honing in on division, but I think it's, I just think it plays up such a big part in, uh, in the re people go, "I just." But how do we bring, how do we bring reconciliation? Division is the problem. How do we bring reconciliation? That's why I keep talking about the apostolic.
Yeah. And, and I'm with you on that. What, what I, but I wanted to point out, I was, the revelation that I got one day, I was, I was driving, uh, I was getting ready to go minister to a church, and we're driving, and for some random reason, I'm sitting in the pastor's seat. My wife's driving, and I, for randomly, start counting every single church I saw, and they were not far away from each other.
Oh, it was like, boom.
And then there was like a church across the street.
Oh, yeah.
And there's a church down, and then I counted like 20 churches on my way to go preach at a church.
Yeah.
And every church parking lot had a different amount of cars. Some two,
Some 20, some 100, some three. And I was like, "Bro, like all I can think of is, um, man, I've seen where people have been like, 'Man, man, you like the pastor?' I'm like, 'I don't,' you know, they'll watch the pastor preach and, and they start having this thing of like, 'But I feel like I can preach it better.'" And so the next thing you know, they've built their own church, or these different things, and, and pe, sometimes people will leave church because, uh, "I think I can do it better than this." As opposed to people aren't just saying like, "Hey, am I called to this? Am I called to this thing? Or does God have me sitting here?" Here's a testimony. I sat in church. Well, shout out to, uh, my pastor who had me in this place where my pastor would not let me wear shorts. And I promise, I would be like, I would see other people in leadership wear shorts and everything. And I would even go to different people and I'd be like, "Hey, man, hey, bro, it ain't even biblical that I can't wear shorts." And I remember somebody was like, "Do, do you feel like God has you called to this ministry?" And I was like, "Yeah." It's like, "Well, then you don't, then, then don't wear shorts." And I would go to, I would be like, "Yeah, he's stupid." Like I go, somebody else like, "Hey, bro." Like, "I can't wear shorts." Anyway, what it ended up bringing me to a place of is being able to, it, it helped me to be able to be submitted under authority because maybe, cuz, let's be real, cuz maybe Lee preaches better than me. Maybe he does, right? Or maybe you do, or whatever. But, uh, or, or maybe I preach better than. But who cares? I want to be in the place where I'm called to, not saying, "You know what? I'm tired of this. I think it should be done this way." So then I'm going to leave this church, and then I'm going to go create my own, or create my own group, or, you know what? I don't even got to open a church no more. I'm going to open Facebook church online. And it really, all of it, I think it just comes to a place of division. But how do we get to reconciliation? I think that's a real hard question because I would.
It comes down to anointing.
This, let me say something. Uh, even coming here, like, like learning how to, how to deal with the bride, right? This season, um, and, and being honored. Uh, you guys gave me the, uh, the honor and the privilege to be like, "Okay, you can do Bible studies and pouring into them." I'm like, "Okay." So, starting off, I'm like, "God, I don't want to get in no meat, no milk." I'm like, "Lord," and He's like, "Remember my heartbeat." And so, I'm like, "What's?" And the first thing, the book of Acts. I'm like, "All right, let's get in the book of Acts. Let's, let's, let's look at the way the first church honored each other." I think the blueprint is right there that they were all in one place together, and then the spirit fell. That their hearts were knitted together, and they shared what they had. Like it was so simple, and somewhere we took our, we took some of that blueprint to what we wanted with our blueprint, and it's a bunch of blueprints now, right? But the truth is, there's one blueprint that brought people together.
It did. And then there were letters written that when they started acting outside of the blueprint, the apostolic teachers, the, the ones with the anointing that that will come in these different regions and bring the people together, right? Because I believe that's part of the apostolic anointing is people will come together. Like you bring people that don't want to mess with each other, but they're here because the, the spirit is drawn, and all of a sudden they're listening, and, and they can overlook at the things they disagree because now they, they, it's a love there, you know. And it, it does take a, an anointing to come in these. It does. It does take someone with that heartbeat that says, you know what? Um, I'm laying my life down. Um, it's no favoritism. I don't care if you're rich or you're poor. Like, you, cuz, cuz you have some people that would treat the rich better than the ones who can't benefit from.
We had that conversation earlier, and then you have some, name some people that, that like it just, it, it is, it's circles. It's clicks in different churches, and I don't think they mean to. It's just the human being side that that becomes. But I can relate more to you tax bracket.
Exactly. We have another church that we would like.
My kids look like, they look better with, like, hanging with your kids. But the truth is, man, if we're all in one place, like, it, man, we, we're helping each other.
Can I pose a question?
No.
Uh, because I know we were talking about this. Uh, what, for any of us who have ever walked away from the church at any point? Do, what, what got, what brought you to that point? And I know that Lee has a little bit of a different testimony where he was like, "Yo, y'all been going to church." His is a little bit different. But I know, I know you, and I know me have had points where we walked away from the church, right? Where we were like, "You know what? I'm gonna go do my own thing." What got you to that point? I think it's a good question because I think it opens up perspective for people to hear because I know it's different for all of them.
Um, whenever you, whenever your leader, and you, you, when you're following someone, and you're actually having obedience, uh, towards God and towards your leader, when you see them fall,
You have, at that moment, you have a decision to make. Am I going to follow Christ?
Yeah.
Or am I going to, uh, deal with this what just happened? And when I say deal, you start to think on everything that happened.
And everything they taught you.
And before you know it, you start to analyze, "What is this real or is this you?" And the enemy gets in. You, I call it getting a spiritual cold, cuz all now, all you have no defenses, cuz now your faith is being questioned, whether or not this was right. Was that right? Well, should you have faith in that? And it's easy for the flesh to say, "Well, you know what? I don't have to take this."
And that's what led me AWOL. Well, you, it's a series of things. Pain. And so all of that always leads to fear. Everything leads to fear. Fear of it not being real.
Fear of, "I wasted a lot of time doing this for what?" And those questions came, uh, between the, my mom passing away. Thank God she went on to be with the Lord, and I know she did. And then, uh, my leader, he fell with my wife, you know, intimately. Well, that made me want, I left,
Man. And before you know it, I started looking for an answer that I knew all along. There's a, there's, uh, I'm not going to go into that. I was just, I was going to say, there's a, there's a university that has a song go out called "He's a Forgiving God," and they tell him everybody to come back home. I would like to put this out there, and I know we're going to the next person.
I believe once we know what's wrong, it's time to pray.
Prayer changes things.
Yeah.
Look, what came to my mind while y'all were talking was Hezekiah.
His fate was sealed. He said, "Look, by this time, such and such, you're going to be dead.
Get your house in order." But he prayed, and the whole trajectory of his life changed. I'm going to give you 15 more years. M. So if he.
could do that with that, why can't we do it with people that are falling away? So to me, the question of why is almost in prophet. It's prophetic. The why is going to happen. The great falling away. This is the deception of man. This is the time, the season of deception and the division of man.
But this is also the time when the power of the living God can be executed through a man. And we pray before the Lord, and God changed everything in the heavens.
Yeah. One of he said something about the book of Acts, the blueprint. It said they devoted themselves daily to prayer, to prayer, breaking of bread and gathering apostles, teaching and the apostles' teaching. So, so it's like, okay, there's the blueprint.
There's something I agree that there's something power. In fact, whenever I get frustrated with other people in the bride, I have to start declaring. I did it this morning at the gym with a couple other brothers where I just start speaking the blessings of every desire of my heart over those that have actively attacked from their own self-interest and I have to start speaking it from a real place. And listen, for the first three days, it's I'm doing it 'cause I know it'll work. But day four, I'm weeping for them.
And it becomes real.
Hallelujah.
And it becomes a real prayer for them to receive that they would receive whatever it is that I've desired. Whatever, whatever it is that I've ever asked for, whatever it is that I've ever prayed, bless them with it.
And there's something in me that shifts.
And it changes and it makes it where my heart's good.
If we're talking because that if they're the bride and I have an aught and I reject them, that's me walking away.
Come on.
Yeah.
Come on.
In the simplest form.
That's right. That's right. Offenses will come.
Yeah. You know.
Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.
No, no. I was going to say what, uh, I was thinking about like when I, 'cause I was, man, I had like a crazy like, uh, deliverance that happened. Um, I, I remembered a crazy experience of like, uh, I was on the like, I was really like seeking the Lord. I was, I was like 18, 19, something like that. And I remember being on the front, uh, seat and I never sit in the front. Not at that age, you know what I mean? I always sit in the back, but that I was like on some like, man, I want to know you, Lord. And I remember like going into this crazy like 40 minutes of like speaking in tongues, but I couldn't.
But I, my eyes were closed and I felt like I was in a completely different place for like 30, 40 minutes. I had been pre-speaking in tongues for so long that when I finally like, when it came down and I opened up my eyes, uh, most of the church was gone and I didn't even.
Right. Come on.
It was crazy. And so this is like my experience. I got back home.
I got back home and I was excited about it. Right. Like it, I was out of town when it happened. I got back home and I just remember having, I'm a high school, so I had to be 18.
I had my Bible. I was excited about the Lord. I was excited about telling people at, at, at, um, school and um, anybody who went to school, me this time and knew I had this like period. It was like only like a couple months, but I had my Bible, bro, and I was telling people about the, I was fasting. I was just like, man, I was excited about the Lord.
Yeah.
Man. And then I remember like, I, I ne, I had no friends. Like I had no like, I was, bro, for a 18-year-old like kid, like that's like, bro, like who else is here?
Very few that on this.
And, bro, I remember going to church and like, there was nobody. Like they didn't have time for a 18-year-old kid. Like, hey, we doing our church thing. I got my own thing going on. And it was like it got.
So they had no time for the future of the church.
It got lonely.
And we're talking about the church falling away.
It got lonely for me. And then the only people that would pick up the phone from me was my homeboys that was still in the world.
Exactly.
And it got, it got super lonely, super fast. And listen, right? I'm, I'm, I'm listen, I can go 3 days without seeing the sun. I could be in my house for three days. I'm.
But I'm old man now.
No, no, I get it. I agree. But at 18, I'm like, "Yo, like, we going, like, we all going to get saved." And that, and the church, like the church had no time for to pour into a young dude who was just trying to figure it out. And the only people that answered the phone for me was them. And listen, I didn't know this then, but I know this now. But I was looking for love, bro.
Yeah. No doubt. Except.
And I felt like that the church wasn't, didn't love me.
Yeah.
And so, bro, I stopped bringing that Bible to school.
Yeah.
I gave up. I stopped bringing it to school.
My boys still answered and they always had the weed ready to go and I was like, "Skip it. I'mma get high with my homeboy." School pick up the phone.
Can I, can I say this really quickly? That's what kept me for a long time smoking crack 'cause I had, I had a lot of companions.
I had people that when I was grimy, they just, "Man, you need to take your bind, go in there and wash." "I give you some of my rock, but I'm a man, you need walk." And it was people that was smoking with me.
But they accepted me.
Yeah.
Where I was. And I believe that there is a place where God is trying to call us back to where we can take the smell of the pigsty where the prodal just came or the son just came from and be able to get put a robe on him.
Yeah.
And put a ring on him and love on him.
Yeah. 'Cause they didn't say that he, they showered him.
No, he was funky.
And listen, we are funky. We are, we got funky spirits. People say funky things.
And people just all around funky. Okay. And they and they claim Jesus. Most people that go to the hospitals, they sick.
Yeah. For sure.
So, anybody that talks about the bride about how they need to do this, that, and the third, first of all, if you're not praying for them and getting the physician to come down, I agree.
And to fix this thing, you're doing everything in vain.
Yeah.
So, what? Well, this is the peculiar thing about the bride. His bride looks completely different than mine.
Yeah. His bride looks completely different than mine. That's true. And yours do. This is the thing with my bride. She has some blemishes.
There's some things that that that that aren't, if you had sculpted perfect, but it's nobody's job to point out the flaws in my bride.
Yeah. Yeah.
You understand? 'Cause I love her and I find some of what you might find a flaw, perfection. Well, God won't allow you. Listen, as much as we look like clowns to to the world, 'cause the Bible even says this.
They would say, "Aha, aha, look at where your God, your God ain't with you." That the enemy of of the people of God would say, "Aha, your God is and you're a reproach. You're not even look at what you look like." God didn't allow that. After a while, in other words, you going to reap what you sow. People that talk about the church, soon enough you'll see whether it be that they leave.
Yeah.
'Cause Jesus is coming soon. I'm sorry, I'm I'm going on another tangent, but Jesus is coming soon and he's coming to get his bride.
What this looks like without spot or wrinkle is without division.
That's right.
It's not without sin. It's without, it's with love and with faith, unity. Man, look, I'm, uh, when you said my bride looks different from your bride and all that, and I started thinking, and guess what? The Baptist looks different from the Presbyterian. And guess what? Maybe they need all these churches 'cause the Bible says that Jesus said, "Well, you're of Paul and you're of, you're no, you're of John the Baptist and I'm, I don't care as long as you come to through the fold."
Yeah.
Just come on.
Yeah. So maybe.
We we started out in the podcast, we started, and this one, we started with the the base of unity. There's a, there's a simplicity of what we can agree on. One God.
Come on.
Send his son, per, you know what I'm saying? That whole thing that we line out. If that, that's what we need to focus on. And I'm not saying, look, everybody's gonna be like, "Well, and this and that." I'm not saying everybody, but there's gonna be people that do that. I'm not saying none of those things aren't important. I'm saying if we can get unity in this.
Then maybe we begin to have the relationship that those conversations begin to bear fruit.
Across the bride.
Hallelujah.
Yo, man, that conversation inside, I'm, I'm, like, I don't even want to say the wrong thing, but I just, I am just grateful. Like, I'm going to say one more time that I have another opportunity given to me to help love his bride.
Come on, man.
And, and yes, I do not want to dissect his bride and how you taking her out on your date. Maybe maybe you're, you're, you're emotional this season. I'm not as emotional with my bride as you were this season.
It. I'm just in simple discipleship quietly and it's feeding me. Like, but when I first started, it was like my, our altar calls were everyone laid it out. It was emotion. And I remember when I didn't have that, when it wasn't, when nobody wasn't falling down, I was like, "Holy Spirit, where are you?" He was there. Nobody had to fall down 'cause the Holy Spirit. He was there, right? And so I, I start looking like, well, you start dissecting like, am I taking the bride on a date the way he's taking it? But the truth is, right now in this season, I'm in a quiet place with the bride and it's beautiful. And discipleship is so simple with the bride and it's beautiful. And I just don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to mishandle her at all.
Amen. Amen. I'm grateful, you know, and I feel like the prayer that Jesus says, like he said, "Man, that they will be one like we were one in the beginning."
You know, and I believe that's how we're going to keep people from not leaving and staying in, not the building, but in the body.
In the body. That's what we trying to do. The body and the body is made up of the building. The body's made up of the street feed. The body's made up of the worship. The body's made up of what we do. That's and all the different party. The body is you, you only got two elbows.
That's right.
You know, one mouth.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So there's all, but, but it's, there's all these different things. And so that was my point in bringing up the the fivefold, right? Or the what they, it's called the fivefold is.
We are trying to get it all to look the same, but it's not supposed to. Look at us. We represent the body. I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, THIS PODCAST represents the bride.
Yes.
Yeah. You want to know why?
We're so different.
We come from everywhere different.
Yeah. For sure.
Look at us. That's right. Cowboy. Listen, man. And that's right. I'm, I'm going to put this thing back on because we're different.
You should have came and you are anyway.
Man. I am coming as I am. But this is why it makes so much.
I love you, man.
This is why it makes so much. This is why this makes so much sense is that we represent the the body of Christ. We love Jesus.
I know you love Jesus. I know I love. I know you love. I know it. I know it. I know he loves Jesus. And guess what, man? All those opinions, yeah, you can speak. That's fine. But God, when it's all said and done, God, God is dealing with every orphice of his bride. Every single cell.
So, God bless you. We pray for the bride. Those that are going through that, if it's sick, look, if I had a spring foot, I would mess, I would minister to it and put a.
Hey, ain't he beautiful? 'Cause you'll be like, "Man, you going to let me be a part of something so beautiful?" He's like, "I'm gonna let you be a part of something." But I'm imperfection. I'm dirty. I look clean over there. He was like, "All of this is my righteousness anyway." Come on. A disagreement doesn't have to turn into offense, dissension.
Or division.
Or division.
That's right.
We, we were having convers. He started because of our interesting conversations.
And we have one before we started where it's anybody else it may seem and then at the end he's like, "Okay, okay, I hear and I'm hearing what he's saying, too."
You know what I mean? But, but the reality is we always go back to there's this this base of uni. There's this thing of unity that we know we can go above up here and talk about this and disagree. We go down here below it and talk about and disagree. But because of this, we're in agreement.
We're always in agreement.
For sure. For sure.
And so, so that, that for me is is one of the most, how do we find what can we be in agreement on? For me, like for, for me personally, I believe that God shows the issues to men of God so that they will be his will physically acted out as a solution.
So for us in our city, we want to be that solution. Excuse me. We want to be, we have, we show up 60 men deep and serve, help do things that, you know, you get 60 men showing up, they get a lot done. And so we choose to serve. We, we're, uh, in a multitude of ways, try to serve the local government, try to serve the local nonprofits and try to serve the local churches.
Because we want to be a place where people can come into agreement on. And I believe that we've affected. I mean, there's still some people that disagree with us, but for the most part, in this city, there's people that really appreciate Nehemiah. They see us as men that serve.
They know that the people with addictions, you know, incarceration, all that stuff come through here, but they know, hey, those men, those are those men. So, what about this? What, what about, uh, maybe there's a pastor that's been doing ministry for 30, 40 years and he doesn't see the church growing and maybe there's a pastor right now starting a church planting. What would, how would you, how would you describe what would it be best for their their region, their city to, to, uh, create to create that kingdom culture right now?
So, two things. One, I would say the pastor that's been doing this for 40 years, hand it off to somebody else, to somebody new. Not out, I'm not saying that out of fence. I'm saying it's time to start raising up your Timothy.
That's right. Period. And then if you begin to raise up your Timothy, he'll have ears and eyes for this season in this generation.
That's good. And look, you know what that sometimes that is why most people leave too, because it has to be, it has to be the mantels being passed and people raised up.
It's got. And I believe that a lot of times the mantle gets hung on to out of fear.
Yeah.
That's what causes them to hang on to it so long. And so I, I would say, I would say prepare a Timothy to the man that's been in ministry 40 years and doesn't see his church growing.
Come together in unity with somebody doing a church plant. Don't sing hang so tightly into the tradition. But if there's somebody that has a vision for your city, at one time you had a vision for your city too.
Yeah.
And if it was a vision of God, it should intersect in one way or and understand what the mission and calling of your church is. So, this is just, and like, I, I'm not, I haven't been saying that long, so what do I really know, right? But this is what I'd say. If you have a church, what's, what's the call of your church? Is your call to get behind and because not every church is called to do everything.
That's so good.
And so, is your call, is your church called to help support the homeless? Is your called, is your church called to help support other ministries doing other different things? Because there's some big churches that get to support a lot of different ministries. Is your church called to be, uh, outreach to addicted? Right? Is your church called to do missions and folks on miss church plant? And so I would say to to the, if the guy going to church plant, he needs to look for some 40-year veterans in that city.
And know this, I believe when you encounter them, they're going to say, "Yeah, I know miracles, signs, and wonders, but maybe not while we're alive, 'cause they've waited so long."
Yeah.
You know what I mean? A whole generation died in the wilderness, but some of them that were born were 40 when they entered.
Yes.
You know what I'm saying? And so they spent a long time and I guarantee you, year 30, 25, 30, 35, they're wondering, are we really ever going to go?
So they dim that fire of someone who know like.
Even know in the mix because it didn't happen in their.
And so what will renew it is a is a Caleb that spot out the lands. You know what I'm saying? So he can come in. If there's somebody trying to plant, you know, there's a deal here in Abene called One Kingdom that's just a, it's not of like a coalition of pastors. It's just a group of ministries, churches, ministries, all this stuff that have just really tried to pray for this city, that have tried to do. And not every church is a part of it or anything. I just can appreciate the vision.
Yeah, me too.
They're just trying. I've heard each one of those pastors say, "Listen, if this church doesn't work for you, maybe this one, this one, and this one will."
That's good.
And they're just trying to build the kingdom. And I see they, there's, uh, chaplain that are involved in the hospital. There's the the folks from Salvation Army involved. We're involved. Uh, there's, there's Baptist, uh, Methodist. Literally every kind of. And they're really just trying to pray in how can we help the city.
One of the things that I went to him about was like, uh, man, one of the things that we've never been able to do is serve the police department, the fire department. And I was like, "What if we did something where we came together and, uh, and just tried to do something that would be us serving them and, and showing our appreciation?" 'Cause this is the reality is, there was a time in my life where I wasn't innocent and I felt like I was at odd with the police. But now, listen, me and my wife, we're one of the innocent now.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I can appreciate the police 'cause the police protect the innocent. I know that sounds crazy, but it was like, man, we need to honor them because.
Because there's a lot of people against them. So anyway, it's just something that they do and they try to figure out strategies to bring the kingdom. And I, and I feel that. And so, so I would say young pastor, team up with an old pastor.
It's good.
And try to try to strategize about what you can do for that city. And man, that, the thing that stands out right now in my mind is I think it's, I think it's Luke 21 at the end whenever Jesus is talking about the end times. At the very end it says, "And when the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled, that should be motivation." That should be motivate. Listen, I don't believe the time of the Gentiles have been. That's us.
That's us.
Yeah.
And, and yes, it's ugly. And yes, the church is, there's people falling away, at least here in Western culture. And, uh, and I, yes, I believe the church has been deceived for a very long time. And we don't operate in the fullness of the power of what we could wield because we have the same spirit in us that raised Christ from the dead. And so I think we have not tapped in that power because we don't know how to love each other.
Yeah.
Dan Mohler said this. He said, "If I encounter you and you're in a bad mood and bristle against me and I'm in my mind, I'm thinking, man, what's wrong with Brian? I can't even give you the word that God has for me because I have, uh, the heart of man and not the heart of God." But if I can encounter that and it doesn't shift who I am, then my heart is prepared to hear from the Lord to give you the word that he has for you right now and shift the kingdom. And so, like for me, I'm going to try to guard my heart. I'm going to try to lay down my life more and more and more every day. When I fail, I'm going to try to make amends real quick. If I publicly do something, I'm going to publicly apologize.
That's good.
Because I believe you have to do it in the same environment because if not, then there, it's never really real. It's even apologies about me.
Right?
Uh, feeling better instead of the the the men saying, "Please forgive me."
And I think that if we can model those things, right, everything that I learned how to do, I found from scripture.
Yeah. Everything I learned about living this word out, I found in scripture. There's been some influential men of God. But, uh.
So, I, I, I just want to, um, before we finish, I just want to ask, so for anybody who's ever fallen away from the church or left the church, uh, your, your, I didn't hear anybody say, I didn't hear one person say the reason people left the church is because God didn't love them anymore. Or because God didn't care about him anymore. Or because.
It's because of man.
God caused division. It, every single answer we ever gave was because of man. And so I think it challenges two things. One, um, for the, for every believer, uh, it's a good chance that, um, man's gonna let you down.
Yeah.
And so I would encourage that believer to keep your eyes on Christ and on Christ alone.
Amen. Um, and then I would challenge the church.
Uh, for us to go above and beyond to love on, uh, people and look more like Christ every single day.
Now, that's not me saying to look perfect every single day.
But it's to say to walk in the grace, the love, the faithfulness, all the things, all the characteristics and the fruits of the spirit that, uh, that God gives us.
I would encourage the church to do that. So to the believer, eyes on Christ alone. And that's what's kept me from walking away from the Lord. There's nothing that no man could ever do to make me walk away from the Lord.
Yeah.
The moment I walked away from the Lord, I stopped keeping my eyes on him.
Yeah.
And I had my eyes on man.
So there's nothing any man could ever do. Maybe I'll be disappointed like, "Ah, man, I wish this would have went this way."
But it wouldn't make me walk away from the Lord because my eyes are on him and him alone. And to the church, let's just do better of loving people right there where they are than getting out of our comfortability and meeting people exactly where they are and understanding that every single man is this close from falling away all over again if we're honest.
That's good.
I want to give a couple shout outs real quick. Uh, so one, I want to say there's great ministry opportunity in the live chat.
Yeah.
And one person I want to shout out from, uh, from Tuesdays is, uh, Patrick Anton Giovani. Man, I just saw you ministering in our, in the live chat to a brother and I just want to say I appreciate you and I thank you. And anybody that feels that need, man, if you see somebody and somebody's going to chime in and they're going to be struggling, feel free to to hit them with a verse that inspired you, that kept you through something. So, I just want to say, man, thank you. And, uh, and then, uh, there was another one, Nicholas T. And, and he, he was in there in there a lot, too. So, I just want to say thank you guys. And then, uh, the, I just feel compelled to say this and it, it may sound controversial, but everybody needs to know holiness does not qualify you for Christ. Sin does, and it's my sin that qualified me for the great sacrifice. If not, why did he do it?
Then once he did it, it can never be taken away. And it's by grace through faith that I enter into this thing and I'm reconciled to the Father. And in that, we, that's what all of our hope is. Our hope is to add to those numbers. It shouldn't be to have argument or be right or anything else, man. And so I just say, listen, to anybody that disagrees, I love you. To anybody that thinks, uh, that that we're less than or anything else, man, I appreciate it. And I appreciate your conviction that you would speak up and say something. And, and I just would, you know, my, my prayer is this, that we could all understand the depth of God's love for us. Nothing else.
Amen.
That's good.
Amen.
Anybody got anything?
No.
Man. Yep. Don't compare. Don't compete. Show you care. Be complete, man.
Yep. Subscribe, like, share, and, uh, and yeah, that's it.
Love you guys. Season with.