Transcription
There's an uneasy tension that I have in this room right here. I don't know what to do with it. Perhaps these two men will sort it out. They will explain it to me.
It's not the only tension we have around here because Nick Wright has something for Zaz, too. But I've got to get to that in a second. Yeah.
Uh he's here. Uh Nick Wright is here in our presence. Always happy to see him. Uh he's doing so at a time he's got to feel very vulnerable because publicly his Kansas City Chiefs after a run of dominance have made him look bad. And they never make him look bad. And they've made him look bad here for a couple of weeks now.
"I actually think they've made me look great, Dan."
That's not even the tension I'm talking about. We'll get to that tension in a second. Pablo just told me before you got here that I had lifted a ban. You were banned from this studio. And I didn't even tell him I'd lifted a ban. I didn't know he was banned from the studio. And so Pablo just told me that I bigfooted him. That I sat in his seat and I allowed you to come in.
"Heeded my seat and big footed."
I allowed you to come in here when he had banned you. And I don't know the nature of this ban and I I disrespected him by lifting it without without knowing.
"I mean, if we're going to just get right into it, this could get awkward. Um,"
"It's already awkward. You're wearing a cardigan in my studio."
"It's a it's a I'm pretty I you know, the the I'd be careful on the my studio part in the room with Dan, but that's neither [laughter] here nor there. Um, I don't I don't check the books. Uh the it's a fake ban that was done for internet applause and that since this ban here's here's the context of it. Pablo invited me on the show along with Wilds we came at our own expense mind you um created what I think is"
"At your own expense. Did he not send a car for you?"
"Of course not."
"Did I send a car for you today?"
"The the Yes, of course you did. Um and so that's again but that's fine. It's no problem."
"I'm just impartial as a journalist and pay."
"Yeah. Wilds and Wilds and Pablo are longtime friends. Pablo and I are longtime acquaintances. And so we came and it was I don't want to call the experience unpleasant, but it was"
"So fun."
"It was it was it I I came in and Pablo's like, 'Hey, remember this thing you said to me at a Christmas party once?' I'm like, 'Not really, but I guess this is where we're at.' Whatever. It was content. It was fine. We did it. Pablo then asked, you know, texted us again like, 'People liked it. Come on again.' And I kind of put it off. And then I came on your show and I I think I made fun of him a bit. And then Pablo did a thing with Katie Nolan where he's like, 'Nick, Wright and I don't know, Liza Pippen or something. The two people who have been banned.' He's like, 'He's banned.'"
"Larsa."
"Okay. And then postbanning, if I showed you the text thread between me, Wilds, and Pablo, it's a lot more, hey, you guys want to come on again? And me not replying and Wilds, I don't know if he did it or not. And so to that, I would say it was a fake ban for internet applause, which it clearly was. And so I didn't feel actually banned from your studio that Pablo works in because uh because uh I have been invited here before. Now your great staff when they asked me they said Dan's going to be in town. Would you like to come on? I said of course I'd do anything for Dan. that person who I think does a great job but I don't want to name he or she because I don't know if this person would want me to said just so you know Pablo will be there is that going to be a problem and I replied I'd do anything for Dan so there's the full context I would say a bit of missing context is that um Nick sucks up to Dan so hard that it's hard for me to parse when we are or aren't beefing because what I try to do is make sure that uh acquaintances can become friends and they can share in the you know in the studio that yes Dan has fully fronted and paid for but that I hope to return the value on over time."
"I think you're doing a great job. Every time I'm asked about the podcast I I say Pablo's doing a great job. It's not the lane I swim in, but I think you're doing you're doing a great job. Which is another one of the reasons I don't want to come on because everyone understands in the media business there is filler and killer. So I feel like when I go on Dan's show, that segment that day that I do, I'm part of the killer. like hey highlights of the show if we did a you know a afteraction report one of the highlights be the hit with Nick Wright was really good when Pablo's entire motif of the show is Pablo Tori finds out we are getting the NFL PA guy fired we're doing the scandal in the NBA at some point I'm sure we'll get to the really shady solitary business all his colleagues were in but I I know that's happening later um then the filler piece of it is Nick and Kevin Wilds hang out for a bit. I don't want to be like that's I don't want I'd rather be on Pablo's podcast. We're like, 'Nick, we've got we're doing an investigation about you and we have some questions to ask and at least'"
"Funny you request that."
"Yeah. Go ahead."
"Um, no. I don't want to spring a manila folder open full of your poker history. I don't want to do that. Um, the thing that I object to"
"Cuz you don't have it, but go ahead. Yeah, please."
"Well, that was a job. daring him to find out about you. Are you a dare?"
"What I am saying is I have led my life from the creed of don't send this text. Don't be in this room if you would not be okay with it being on the front page of the New York Times and I stand by it. So yeah, I mean I am I am as all of my vices, foibless, anything the public has seen. So I am I am a man without the skeleton. So yeah, you can do whatever you want."
"He's also though self-aware enough and transparent about where his ego resides. That he did just tell you to your face. He's not filler. He's not someone who comes on to someone else's show so that you can have an easier show that day and get on to what it is that you do."
"You actually want to do you want to do investigations."
"Oh, I those take a lot of time. I I I object to filler being the characterization of everything but the investigations. I love I love when my friends and acquaintances and new friends um can come on the show and have a fun time. And I think that what Nick has done inadvertently is characterize the entirety of what is a non-investigative episode in our industry as filler. That is you're you're referring to entire genre of people talking as filler. Well, he's but he is also telling you I star or not at all. Like I I'm going to come in and be the showcase of your"
"Have a rhyming phrase to describe the philosophy. So I do understand"
"The Yeah, listen I the I am not saying that all podcasts that are people chatting are filler. What I am saying is every podcast or media in media venture has an identity and the identity of Pablo Tori finds out is that you are going to do investigations. You're going to be nominated but not win Peabodies and you are going to and you are going to do real journalism. That is the in if the ser I'm sure the lady who did serial would be a sick hang but if it's like hey in between figuring out what become a good hang arbiter"
"How did Nick walk I I'm not I'm not saying that what I'm saying is that person if they were like hey in between Adnan episodes we'd love some LeBron takes I'd be like you know I think I'm going to pass I don't think that's what your audience wants"
"But I didn't ask for your LeBron takes I I I But yeah, look, I I at the risk of being um too too real about this, I don't want to talk about my show this much, even though Nick had previously said in one of his very kind interviews with Dan, that if he wanted to do journalism, he could do absolutely everything that I had been doing,"
"Which is a thing that's on tape if we want to play that at some point in the in the proceedings here."
"I don't know what he's talking about. Annie hasn't prepared our production staff for what that is. So, they're not going to have it instantaneous."
"I'll just I'll just recreate it. Do I think that if I put all of my effort into doing what Pablo does, I could do it? Yes. Do I think that if Pablo tried to do what I do, he could? No. That's true."
"I think that's"
"I'm one of the most uh"
"It's arrogant, but it's beyond arrogant. I think it misunderstands the lanes you're describing. Um, everybody everybody tries to do what Nick does and Nick is really really good at it. He's really good at it. Um, I think I'm pretty good at it. You know, whatever. You know, PTI is a show that exists. I think I'm pretty good on it. All of which is to say that I would like Nick to show me. I do the thing that Nick does and I do the thing that I do. Nick talks about wanting to do the thing or not wanting but if you were to [laughter] hypothetically try."
"No, but it's so that but that's"
"But this is I have no interest."
"But it's a take with no teeth. You've never It sounds like you're a little afraid to try. I have been trying to do all this stuff. I hang out with my friends, argue about sports. I investigate people in the Epstein files. Nick Wright, as far as I can tell, kind of does one of those things. It sounds like someone says, 'Hey, they here's a crocheter.' And I'm like, 'Yeah, I think I probably could do that.' They're like, 'Why don't you?' It's like, 'Cuz I don't want to. I have no interest in it. I am not denigrating.' By the way, I want to crochet. I just want to make this clear. I don't think it's easy what you do. I don't think the fact that I can do it is is is a testament to that it not being difficult. It's a testament to what I think my own ability and intelligences are. And again, I said this was going to get awkward and we that I wouldn't I think the fact that you just called it a fact is a testament to what your skills are."
"Jack, what do you mean?"
"You said the fact that you could do it and you entered that into the available evidence as if that is not a disputed characterization and then you just steamrolled into whatever it is coming next. You you are saying that facts are not facts. Uh when you say they're facts, Pablo is accusing you of thinking that facts are not facts because you have said you simply can do what he can do. Before I go any further, put it on the poll at leard show. Who's a better hang, Nick Wright or Pablo Tori?"
"And"
"I want this conversation to be the evaluation of my ability to hang. I'm embarrassed. I don't participate in this."
"I mean, I need an independent arbiter here, please."
"I mean, it's going to be on Pablo's side. I would hope so. Well, I just I just trying to figure out how we spent 15 minutes talking about this whole"
"Did I miss it? DID I MISS IT? DID I MISS JESS'S HIT? DID I DID WE TRADE TYLER HERO YET? DID I MISS THAT? AM I ON TIME? [laughter] DID IT HAPPEN?"
"WHERE DID HE COME FROM? I thought he was going to be yelling about Notre Dame earlier in the show. Where have you been? I had [clears throat] a I had a dance recital for my daughter, but I I left early cuz I I remember Jess is on. I I I can't miss that."
"All right, you can talk to Jess in a little while. You have not missed Jess."
"She will give me nothing, but it'll be all right cuz I'm here."
"Please [clears throat] uh somebody send HIM OUT OF THE ROOM SO I CAN GET BACK TO SO I can get back to the awkwardness between Nick and Pablo. I mean, you were saying before Mike thundered in you thought this was a bad use of 15 minutes of our time of Nick's time."
"I I won't lie. Like the beginning I thought, 'Oh, this is a fun little bit, right?' Then I looked up and it's 10:47 and we're still doing this."
"I mean, all right, guys. Let's move on. Let's talk about other things that have happened."
"BUT WE'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR MONTHS. LOOK, this is an interesting The reason that I We'll get back to sports in a second. Nick's got plenty on that subject. The reason that I find it interesting though is because you've got two of the best in the"
"The Pirates and left-handed pitcher Gregory Sodto are in agreement on a one-year $7.75 million contract. Sources tell ESPN Sodto, 30, had a 4.18 RA and 70 appearances for the Orioles and the Mets last season."
"You've got two of the best in the business. Uh, and they do very different things. And uh I believe that Pablo is a little bit insulted that Nick doesn't totally doesn't totally love the thing."
"No, no, no. It's not about whether Nick loves it. It's not about whether Nick loves it. It's whether Nick can do it if he really tried as hard as he possibly could."
"And I And this is where and again this is where we probably Okay, I mean this is where we probably shouldn't go, but we're here so I'll just land the plane. My argument would be, yeah, this is mean. We don't know whether or not I can do what you do. I think we do know that you can't do what I do. That's not an answer. That is exactly what Nick does."
"I mean, sure, it's I would say this. I would say in Nick's in Nick's report card, [laughter] in Nick's report card, I will I will do the crime of assigning myself Dan, and you know how painful this is for me to give myself a B+ in the sports hottake game."
"They do do great inflation at the Ivy League schools, don't they? [laughter]"
"They really do. I will I will grant I will grant that that is what my 13 years at ESPN has resulted is a B+, which is a horrifying concept to me. Um, Nick, Nick can get an A. And I you know what I would say Nick is one of the best at making it seem like things that are not facts are facts. It's really a skill and it's happened so many times in this conversation."
"Issue with me like the turn of phrase the fact of the matter."
"No, no, no. You said the fact that I could do it and and that's just a Okay, if you would prefer on the pod or on relists, just drop in opinion for where I say fact cuz you're right. I use the word liberally in conversation, not as if we were in court and because I am not the style of investigative journalist you are. I have said that repeatedly and if you you are 100% correct that when I say the fact that I could is being fast and loosed with that specific word. The belief that I could is what it is. But I think this is everything you've said there, which I totally understand, and you're nuancing in such a way that gives you the ability to have your cake and eat it too, which is fine. What I'm saying is that you keep on saying that you could do it."
"Yeah. I don't I don't"
"I just think that's I think that is factually incorrect based on the available evidence. And I think that the idea [laughter] of me answering the question with"
"Now we're going to dive into it. What's the available evidence?"
"You've never reported a single thing in your life."
"Okay. Well, first of all, again, for Pablo finds out, it's that's a little embarrassing."
"So, what's the thing you've reported? If we're going to do the game,"
"Sure. I mean,"
"Report off. [laughter]"
"Marlins 2016 fourthround pick, Shawn Reynolds, has signed with the Yokohama Bay Stars per Sean Haymon."
"Hold on. No, no, no. I'm going to I'm going to actually answer this and then we can move on to more important things. Who is the only person in [screaming] the country It was a little mean. It was a little It was a little mean when I No, it wasn't mean. It was embarrassing because who's the only person in the country who when Adrien Peterson was about to skip on a no build grand jury for beating his kid had the police report, his audioed confession, every single piece of evidence and his reporting led to them impaneling a new grand jury and a seasonl long suspension. The answer to that question is 28-year-old as a side project radio host in Houston, Nick Wright. So the I again, is that the only reporting I've ever done? It actually might be. Was it a 10 out of 10 on impact, exclusivity, accuracy? Yes, of course. So, does that inform the fact that I think if I actually made it my vocation, I'd be good at it? Yes. But your your argument that the lack of evidence is evidence is quite ridiculous. Your argument that anybody exactly the argument it again if you ran back the tape my friend it would be the argument that anything that anyone has not done is evidence they can't do it as opposed to a void of knowledge on whether they could do it is just a logical fallacy. And so the point I'm making, if we're really diving into it, is I believe with a scoch of evidence that I could be a great investigative reporter. I am not interested in doing it. You seem to believe not even knowing my own investigative reportage history, which is not that hard to know. It's one story and it was a pretty"
"Logically consistent. It's not that hard to know. It's also literally one thing that happened when I was 28, which I believe is like 13 years ago. I am going to do something that I try not to do around here just to include Nick in everything that's happening around here. Uh Jeremy and the shipping container have a device they've been using to try and run me off of subject matter that I've been talking about for 10 minutes too long. The entire time you guys have been talking, I have been smiling at the genuine awkwardness of it, but also I've been getting running commentary in my ear from the shipping container and an exasperated Chris Cody who's wanted this to stop for 10 minutes. I TRUST THE JUDGMENT OF PABLO AND NICK BETTER than I trust that room's judgment, BUT BUT THEY'VE been sitting here."
"Closer Kyle Finnegan and the Detroit Tigers are in agreement on a 2-year $19 million contract. the commentary from the room SO THAT PABLO AND NICK CAN GIVE get your assessment of this SEGMENT WHICH IS GOOD. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU guys"
"The last 10 minutes felt like at Radio Row when Gary Vee and Rob Wle just talked to each other for 10 minutes on our show. They were ON HIS TALKING ABOUT THAT GREAT INTERVIEW FROM HOW MANY YEARS AGO BECAUSE OF HOW GOOD IT WAS."
"OH, just enough guys. Jesus. Let's move on to SPORTS TIME."
"THANK GOD the [laughter]"
"I think I'd rather hang with Nick."
"Oh yeah, he seems like surprising. I mean, yeah, I mean surprising."
"That's just a roar shark test for what you enjoy. Of course there. Yeah. I mean, Pablo's a great hang for certain groups. I'm a great hang for certain groups."
"You're both great hangar [laughter]"
"One of you better than the other. Neither better than the other. Get the still images, please, of uh Nick earlier this week uh giving the people what they want, which is his national and international tears. Uh were you brought in on a gurnie? What happened? [laughter]"
"Yeah, I was brought in on a gurnie and I pulled out a Newport 100 and tried to smoke it and Wilds correctly said on the air. I think that's been frowned upon on television for 50 years. [laughter] And so this is the man you bring into my studio. Yeah, that's uncalled for, guys. [laughter] Um that's that's"
"This is the journalistic objectivity you bring into my studio."
"No journalistic objectivity, just entertaining on TV. Um and so the uh the Yeah, I mean that's that's where I said the Chiefs have done me a favor because if the audience, you know, the as the last 20 minutes might be evidence of, I can be a little pompous and grading. I know it'll shock people. So, seeing me beaten down,"
"Seeing me beaten down like that and defeated, I think humanizes me in a way the audience appreciates. So, that's another favor that my hometown team did for me."
"But, I see."
"But you're hurting. You're you're uh rarely this attached to a take."
"I'm I'm I'm hurting and in every way possible. And it has been so financially devastating that I My wife was in Miami this weekend for Art Basle. My daughter had a sleepover. Dropped her off at her friend's house around 1, so Saturday. I'm like, I have a good right there."
"12 hours. I drove to Philly and then tried to crowdsource via Twitter a high stakes card game to try to come back up and but all the high stakes players in Philly are down in the Bahamas for the big tournaments. Um so I just sat in a kind of depressing medium stakes game for 12 hours, made some money and drove back home that night."
"You've done this a couple of times though. I don't believe that whatever the financial costs of this were hurt you as much as the emotion of it hurts to be this invested in a team this invested in being right and having uh you know Patrick Mahomes fail you with the worst performance we've ever seen from him."
"It sounds like a man that hasn't lost consecutive weeks of $20,000 moneyline bets. Dan,"
"So I have it wrong. It's it's it's money and"
"IT'S ALL OF THE ABOVE. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO UNWRAP untie it. Like I don't Every time the Chiefs win, I feel great and I win money. And every time they lose, I feel awful and I lose money. So those two emotions are so wrapped in themselves that I don't know what one would feel like without the other. So it's just a whole a whole collection of suck. And then I find myself in this perverse place where a team whose fans have in person for 6 months heckled me at restaurants and when I'm out when I'm with my family uh Eagles fans, I have to root for them on Monday night to beat the Chargers for the Chiefs playoff path. And then the quarterback who I despite him beating Mahomes in the Super Bowl, I'm like I don't really believe in Jaylen Herz. I watch him prove me right in a way that damages my team. It's been awful. It's been truly awful, which is maybe why I'm lashing out."
"It just seems to me though like you've had a three-year run at a craps table and are now complaining that you're finally seven out. Like you've been young."
"I'm not complaining. I'm just saying you asked me and it's painful. I I just can't imagine how much money you've won over the last three years that has made you this emotionally invested in everything that's happened because you continue to be right about this team except for one or two bets over the last three years."
"No, no, no. That part that part is true, but like any of those great runs at the craps table, they usually press their bet the more they're winning, which is why it's hard to walk away a huge winner. because even if you win 80% of your bets, the bets you lose at the end usually cut into a lot of that. But again, I I I'm fine financially. I I the my my money management plan has always been the same. I'll just make more money next year and it'll be fine. the the the it is a lot of just the pain of them being the team I love plus the shame of the certainty that I had that this team was great as of five weeks ago and the money all of it sucks sucks"
"So Mike Ryan has rushed into the studio"
"Miami Marlins progressing in their efforts to trade right-hander Edward Cabrera are talking with the Baltimore Orioles among other clubs according to Ken Rosenthal. And I happen to know that that's true."
"Oh my god. He knows."
"He happens to know."
"Come everyone come and listen. Happens to know. He happens to know."
"Well informed."
"I happen to know that the Marlins are trying to trade Edward Cabrera over Sandy Alcantro. Zaz, you don't know anything about happening to know about that. You don't know about the Marlins. You're not a reporter. Okay. Well, first of all, to to come out and say, 'Oh,"
"This guy's not a journalist. It's ridiculous."
"Okay. I It's really difficult to argue with someone who talks like that. Okay. Well,"
"You think it's going to take sounding like that?"
"I could beat you with this voice, too. I could beat you in any argument."
"Okay. Now, you're definitely"
"No matter what I'm DOING, I'M GOING TO BE"
"NOW YOU'RE SCREWED. THERE'S NO WAY. NOW, YOU GOT A BIG PROBLEM CUZ NO ONE CAN understand what you're saying. And if NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH ANYONE. NO ONE TAKES you seriously anyway. And now you SOUND LIKE MINNIE MOUSE. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU."
"THAT GUY OVER THERE."
"WOW. Big ahead. [laughter]"
"It's big ahead."
"Zaz. Uh Nick Wright texted me that you're an alltime dope the other day based on Nick."
"He said he said it was on the record. Uh because"
"I don't have to explain when I'm on the record. Everything that comes out of this mouth's on the record. All right. I'm playing games here. [laughter] Your take was just"
"I don't I can't understand. Can we go back to the other voice? I can't understand that one."
"Uh [screaming]"
"Your take was that Braun hoped the shot missed, which under certain context would make sense, but of course makes no sense under the exact context that that play happened, which was he has eight points. It's a tie game. There's 4 seconds left and he has the ball. So if he wanted to keep the streak alive, all he had to do was shoot the ball because if he makes it, the streak stays alive and if he misses it, they go to overtime and the streak will stay alive. The the the the mere fact, I hope I use that correctly, Pablo, that he passed means that he was putting winning ahead of the streak by definition. And you're a real dope if you can't just follow the natural linear progression of time to understand that."
"Nick, he was four for 17 in the game. [laughter]"
"You act like he was out there. He was three for five and he decided at the end of the game to pass. He was four for 17. Like he wasn't trying to get double figures. HE WAS FOUR FOR 17."
"WHY? WHY? WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON?"
"That's un Oh, you know what? You should pull instead to defend the mean there."
"Mad dog."
"You guys can probably pull it. Mad dog. my guy. But I mean, that is my guy, but Mad Dog should not have allowed that to be filmed."
"Would have been a nice setup for them to like"
"I mean this Mad Dog's an alltime let this get filmed."
"DOG [laughter] after just the aftermath."
"Dog's on the IR now. Come on."
"He looks fine up until the aftermath."
"Oh god."
"Best part is that he charged up for it. [laughter]"
"HE INJURED HIMSELF ON THAT."
"NO. Is"
"That his version of a crow hop?"
"[laughter]"
"It's interesting that he crossed over. You don't usually see a crossover BEFORE APPLE SHOT."
"WAIT A MINUTE. HE DID HE DID INJURE HIMSELF AND THEN HOBBLED OFF. WAIT, LET ME S LET ME WATCH THAT WHOLE thing again because the dribbling was terrible and then IT GOT WORSE. HOW DOES IT GET WORSE AFTER THE DRIBBLING? THE DRIBBLING was terrible."
"The dribbling might have been the worst part, BRO."
"OH NO. OH. OH. DOUBLE DRIBBLE."
"CLEAR DOUBLE."
"Hold on. Hold on. AND THEN HE AND HE STAGGERS OFF."
"Terrible camera work."
"I started my law practice specifically for instances like this. This is viral decontextualization, folks. This guy has one bad moment on camera. All of a sudden, we're going to JUST PAINT HIS ENTIRE ATHLETIC EXPERIENCE WITH JUST THAT ONE MOMENT. Mad Dog, you don't have to fall for it. The good people to Am mean's wrist."
"Why question that way?"
"We don't need to relitigate. My investigation on that is"
"I did a whole video on Westport for Street about this."
"Uh we're going to throw it back to Miami here in a second. Our thanks to Nick Wright for stopping by. We will continue this awkwardness with uh with Pablo at a later date. But Jessica, Mike, you got something for Jessica? You got something for Jessica?"
"She's got nothing for me. We all know what this is going to be like. Like trying to draw blood from a stone. BUT I AM THRILLED TO BE"