Art Bell | Decoding the Unexplained: The Creepiest Number Stations Ever Heard

From the high desert and the great American Southwest. I bid you all. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be in the world's time zones, every single one of them covered like a blanket by this program coast to coast. It is my honor and privilege to be here to escort you through the weekend.

Now, I've got quite a bit I want to open with. I sort of saved it from last night. And incidentally, uh, there were a number of people who wrote and said, "Well, why did you have Chris Money Maker on? That isn't what Coast to Coast does." These must be fairly recent listeners. Over the years, I have done all kinds of programs. Even though we perhaps center on the paranormal here, it's by no means the only place we go. And I've always done exactly what I thought was interesting, whatever it was. From country and western stars that I've interviewed to, I don't know, all kinds of people across the board. To those people who have it fixed in their head somehow and for some reason wrongly that Coast is only about the paranormal, wrong. Yes, a lot of it is.

I, I'm going to skip the, um, the world news tonight, you know, the official Associated Press or whatever world news and go directly to the things that I think are important. I, I, and this is one I really, I'm not a psychic and don't claim to be, but I have a really bad feeling about this. And my bad feelings tend to usually have cause. You can locate what I'm about to read on the Drudge Report for yourself if you wish to, but here it is.

Avian flu on the verge of an epidemic. The vicious avian flu that has killed dozens of people now in Vietnam, Thailand, and elsewhere in the region has caused the deaths of hundreds of millions, now hundreds of millions of animals in nearly a dozen Asian countries in the past two years. It could kill millions of people should it become capable of spreading efficiently among humans. It's all according to Michael Specter, reporting in Nature's, uh, bioterrorist. That's in the February 28th, 2005 issue of The New Yorker.

"No such virus has ever spread so quickly over such a wide geographical area," Specter notes. And unlike most viruses, he says, "This one has already affected a more diverse group than any other type of flu. It has killed many animals previously thought to be resistant." One farmer whose chickens were killed by the virus says, "It's damn hard to watch. One day they're all alive and healthy. The vets were here the week before to check them and then the next day they're dying by the thousands. It happened so quickly. They started shivering. Thousands of them at once and then they started to fall. Every one of them. They just fell over dead."

Scott Dowell, the director of the Centers for Disease Control's Thailand office, tells Specter, "The world, listen to these words, the world just has no idea what it's going to see if this thing comes. When, really, it's when. I don't think we can afford the luxury of the word 'if' anymore. The clock is ticking. We just don't know what time it is."

Robert Webster, a virologist at St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, who's been studying avian flu influenza influenza for decades now, is even more stark. He says, "This is the worst flu virus I've ever seen or worked with or even read about." He says, "We have to prepare as if we were going to war, and the public needs to understand that clearly. This virus is playing its role as a natural bioterrorist. The politicians are going to say, 'Chicken Little is at it again.' And if I'm wrong, then thank God. But if it does happen, and I fully expect that it will, there'll be no place for any of us to hide. Not in the United States, nor Europe, or in a bunker somewhere. Nowhere. Nowhere to hide."

The virus is a very promiscuous and effective killer. Not all politicians have ignored the threat. When Tommy Thompson, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, announced his resignation last December, he cited an avian influenza epidemic as one of the greatest dangers the US faces. The World Health Organization's conservative estimate of the number of deaths that an epidemic would cause is 7 million worldwide. Michael Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, calculates that a pandemic on the scale of the devastating global influenza epidemic of 1918 would kill at least 180 million people.

Today, Specter reports on the efforts of health officials in the US and Thailand and other countries to contain the virus and are doing the best job they can. Millions of animals have been ordered slaughtered. Now, I've been reading stories to you about this for weeks, but this is the most worrisome yet. It's, it's like they absolutely expect it to jump species and they expect it to become airborne and they expect it to become as bad as, for example, the 1918 flu and perhaps even more deadly. It's got a, it's got some terrible, um, something like a 75% mortality rate or something. I'm worried about this, and maybe it will come to naught. I hope so. I wonder how you feel about it.

And then this, this is from The Independent, by the way, in Great Britain. And the headline is: "The Final Proof. Global Warming is a Man-Made Disaster." Scientists have found the first unequivocal link between man-made greenhouse gases and a dramatic heating of the Earth's oceans. The boy, does this ever make sense. The researchers, many funded by the US government, have seen what they describe as "stunning correlations" between a rise in ocean temperature over the past 40 years and pollution of the atmosphere. The study destroys a central argument of global warming skeptics within the Bush administration. That is to say, that climate change could be a natural phenomenon. It should convince George Bush to drop his objections to the Kyoto treaty on climate change, say the scientists.

Tim Barnett, a marine physicist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego, very prestigious, and a leading member of the team, said, "We've got a serious problem." The debate, uh, no longer is there a global warming signal. The debate now is, what are we going to do about it? The findings are crucial because much of the evidence of a warmer world until now has been from air temperatures. But it is, in fact, the oceans that are the driving force behind the Earth's climate. Dr. Barnett said, over the past 40 years, there has been considerable warming of the planet system. And approximately, get this folks, 90% of that warming has gone directly into the oceans. [snorts] He told the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington, "We defined a fingerprint of ocean warming. Each of the oceans warmed differently at different depths and constitutes a fingerprint that you can look for."

"We had several computer simulations, for instance, and one for natural variability. Could the climate system just do this on its own? And the answer clearly was no. We looked at the possibility that solar changes or volcanic effects might have caused the warming. Not a chance. What just absolutely nailed it was greenhouse warming." So there you have it. I don't know if it'll really change any minds or not in Washington. And I, I don't know that it can. I mean, realistically, I do believe that man's hand is involved. I, I've always sort of leaned in that direction, as you know. But realistically, I do understand the president's reaction. After all, we have a, a very large, vibrant economy and it's based on fossil fuels, and we can't just shut it down. Well, we could, but if we did, it would be absolute disaster for us. So, no president in his right mind is going to say, "Well, you know, everybody back to horse and buggies." That's not going to happen. And I don't know what is going to happen, but I, I suppose the administration realistically looks at it and says, you know, not a hell of a lot we can do. And so, they don't do anything. And I, I actually do understand that position, believe it or not.

We better get going, though. All right. Though that was important. The following is important. The article is entitled, "Can This Black Box See Into the Future?" Deep in the basement of a dusty university library in Edinburgh lies a small black box, roughly the size of two cigarette packets side by side, that churns out random numbers in an endless stream. At first, it is a rather unremarkable piece of equipment, encased in metal. It contains at its very heart a microchip, no more complex, actually, than ones found in modern pocket calculators. But according to a growing band of top scientists, the box has quite extraordinary powers indeed. It is, they claim, the eye of a machine that appears capable of peering into the future and predicting major world events.

The machine apparently sensed the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center four hours before they occurred. But in the fevered mood of conspiracy theories of the time, the claims were swiftly knocked back by skeptics. Uh, but last December, it also appeared to forewarn of the Asian tsunami just before the deep-sea earthquake that precipitated the epic tragedy. Now, even the doubters are beginning to acknowledge that here is a small black box that apparently does, in fact, have inexplicable powers.

"It's earth-shattering stuff." That's a quote from Dr. Roger Nelson, emeritus researcher at Princeton University in the US, who is heading the research project behind the black box phenomenon. That's what they're now calling it. He says, "We're very early in the process of trying to figure out what's going on here. At the moment, we're stabbing in the dark." Dr. Nelson's investigations, called the Global Consciousness Project, were originally hosted by Princeton University and are centered on one of the most extraordinary experiments of all time. Its aim is to detect whether all of humanity shares a single subconscious mind that we can all tap into without realizing. And machines like the Edinburgh black box have thrown up tantalizing possibilities. That is that scientists may have unwittingly discovered a way of actually predicting the future.

Although many would consider the project's aims, uh, to be little more than fool's gold, it still now has attracted a roster of 75 respected scientists from 41 different nations. Researchers from Princeton, where Einstein spent much of his career, work right alongside scientists from universities in Britain, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Germany. The project is also the most rigorous and longest-running investigation ever into the potential powers of the paranormal. So for those of you who have been following this incredible story into monitoring the consciousness, the collective consciousness of those here on Earth, there you have it. The latest is it, the spike went right off the chart again before the earthquake, just before the earthquake that created the tsunami. Just thought you'd want that update.

Incidentally, as you consider the oceans warming, because they are the recipient of 90% of the, um, the warming from the greenhouse gases, if that article is accurate, and I presume it is, just might account for the seemingly somewhat different weather patterns. Now, the Los Angeles, Southern California area, even up into, uh, Central California is getting slammed. Absolutely slammed with moisture. And, uh, here in the desert, uh, I mean, I'm, I'm in serious desert. You've got to remember that. I'm in a place called Pahrump, Nevada. Um, you know, 20 miles or so from Death Valley, and this should be, well, the driest part of the country, really. And we have already, um, come very close to exceeding our totals for any normal year, and we had done that in a couple of months prior to the change of year. So we have had so much water that people here are talking arks. You know, that kind of deal. Get out there and start nailing together an ark. And the desert here is turning green. This looks like one great big golf course out here. I mean, everything green, every little seed that's been in the earth for a million years and hasn't grown is now growing.

While in Oregon, Washington, the American Northwest, they're beginning to get awfully dry. All that moisture that should be there instead is here. And the desert does not look at all like the desert. Now, I'm sure, well, I would imagine anyway, we will return to the appropriate sort of dry weather. However, what if it didn't? Before you know it, we'd be growing redwood trees here. And the redwood trees in Northern California, in the Northwest part of the country, boy, they'd all be drying up and falling over, and the landscape would be getting desert-like. But of course, that could never happen.

Now, a lot, uh, of ham radio operators have been wondering what has been negatively affecting the ability, uh, to communicate with the people they normally communicate with. In other words, the ionosphere has had something wacky with it. There's two good choices right now of why that might be. One is a story about HAARP, which actually created sparkles or an aurora, if you will, their own aurora above the HAARP facility in Gakona, Alaska. They could actually, if they had run out, as they pulsed the ionosphere with all this power, they would have seen this green sparkling going on. In fact, it was photographed. So, we have man's hand, uh, dipping about, uh, and fooling around with the ionosphere.

And then here's candidate number two. A huge explosion halfway across the galaxy packed so much power it briefly altered Earth's upper atmosphere in December. According to astronomers, this was one they laid on as Friday. No known eruption beyond our solar system has ever appeared as bright upon arrival. But you couldn't have seen it. Not unless you had X-ray vision like Superman. In gamma rays. The event equaled the brightness of the full moon's reflected visible light. If you could have seen it, the blast, get this folks, originated 50,000 light years away and was detected December 27th. That means it happened 50,000 years ago. A light-year is, in fact, the distance that light can travel in one year, about six trillion miles or so. The commotion was caused by a special variety, uh, of neutron star known as a magnetar. Magnetar. I guess these fast-spinning compact stellar, uh, corpses, that's what they are, dead stars, no, uh, larger than a, say, a big city, create very, very intense magnetic fields that trigger explosions. The blast was 100 times more powerful than any similar eruption ever witnessed, according to David Palmer of Los Alamos National Laboratories, one of the research. In other words, this thing was so strong that it actually collapsed to some degree our upper atmosphere. So, this thing was incredible, whatever it was. And it was sufficient, no doubt, to, uh, disrupt communications and do what normally you would only associate with sun flares and that kind of activity, you know, hitting the, uh, ionosphere. In this case, what happened was 50,000 light years ago. 50,000 years ago is a way to think about it. Big bang.

A pair of NASA scientists told a group of space officials, you may have heard last week at a private meeting, that they've now found strong evidence that life may exist on Mars. It was a big announcement. Whoa, you know, life on Mars. We have found life on Mars. And then one day later, the naysayers came along and said, "Well, now, wait a minute. Maybe not." So, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Of course, the week brought news of the North Koreans, uh, not wanting to participate in the Six Party Talks and, uh, claiming they now have their own nuclear, uh, devices ready to go. And, uh, I don't know. Echoes of, uh, Major Ed Dames. Huh.

Oh, and this just in, as they say. Some New Mexicans say it's the weirdest thing they've ever seen. A creature. That's the best word to describe it. Found on Albuquerque's West Mesa. To some, it's simply intriguing. To others, downright scary. The creature belongs to Robert Wheeler. It was found out on the West Mesa, says Wheeler. A friend of mine was out there shooting and kicked it out of the dirt. "It looks like a gargoyle," said Wheeler's friend Steve. "It has these spongy-like lips." Already, I want a picture. Garcia and Wheeler say Hispanics seem most affected by the creature and what it might be. To people of Spanish heritage, it's the chupacabra, the goat sucker, is what they call it. And I don't know, strange creatures are being seen all over the place. One, uh, in Southern California, two recently, I believe. So, I, you know, there's all kinds of strange things going on out there.

As you can see, in the first half hour, I didn't have to touch the national news. Didn't even have to touch it. And I have, I've still not made my way through all you should know. At any rate, we're going to break at the half hour, and we're going to begin taking calls. So, if you have something urgent, important to get on the air, we're going to recite the numbers in a moment. You're going to want to listen carefully because they're a little different on the weekend. From the high desert, the soggy rain high desert. This is Coast to Coast AM. I'm Art Bell.

To talk with Art Bell, call the Wild Card line at area code 775-727-1295. The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-122. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call 800-618-8255. International callers may reach by calling your in-country Sprint access number, pressing option 5 and dialing toll-free 800-893-903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.

>> It is. Good morning, everybody. Listen, >> we just got this from Charles. I mentioned it to you and here it is. are just in time for Coast to Coast AM returns to KFI Los Angeles. The Los Angeles Times reported Sunday a very large creature weighing four to six hundred pounds had, uh, entered the Simi Valley area and crossed the freeway near a pasture to California, uh, 23. The terrestrial creature was leaving saucer-sized paw prints. Saucer-sized, between Simi Valley and Moorpark, northwest of Los Angeles, consisting of four toes, six inches long. An animal resembling a lion had been seen by numerous residents there. So something going on in Southern California. Creatures everywhere. Whatever in the hell it is in the Simi Valley area, it's been ruled out as being, for example, a "freakishly overgrown mountain lion." They don't know what it is, but it's something big. It's, it's disrupting people's evening walk in the Simi Valley area. So, I mean, who'd be out walking in the rain like we're having right now, right? But maybe. And can you imagine being out there and hearing this giant squish, squish, squish, whatever in the hell it is walking toward you, and there you are, nothing but a Simi Valley potato chip?

First-time caller line, you're on the air. Hello.

>> Hi. Uh, I, I told you I had these funny feelings that something major is going to happen.

>> You have a feeling something, something major, bad, or what?

>> Yeah, it started like three months ago, just before the tsunami. I, I was hearing this humming sound at night and I kept, I tell my wife, "You hear this, this humming sound?" She told me no. And then Christmas night, I told her, I said, "I had this funny feeling a whole bunch of people are going to die."

>> And for some reason, I couldn't go to night, go to sleep Christmas night, and then a tsunami happens. Now, this what I'm about to tell you, just by coincidence. You know, I'm a truck driver. I'm driving, I'm coming into the Beltway in DC. They got the highway shut down to one lane, and they got the radioactive scanner out on the highway scanning every car.

>> Normally, you people don't know, know what these things are. They're normally inside inspection stations for trucks, and they scan the trucks. This is out in the middle of the highway. I-95 is shut down to one lane, and they are scanning every car.

>> Well, then they're looking for something radiological in transport, aren't they?

>> They wouldn't shut, I never seen them shut down a highway and put the scanner out there in the middle of the highway.

>> I've never heard of that myself. Um,

>> You know what I'm talking about. Those

>> Clearly, I know what you're talking about, sir. Thank you very much. Yes, of course, I know what you're talking about. And don't ignore those feelings. Listen, these, these feelings count. I, I think that, uh, human beings long ago sort of, I don't know, dismissed these feelings that they have, you know, something really major pending. We sort of talked ourselves out of it, if you know what I mean. Uh, and, and in the modern world where we have so much going on, phones going on, internet, you know, you're busy with a million things, your mind is sort of on what's going on in front of you and not listening to little messages that are trying to pound their way in.

Wildcard, you're on the air. Hello.

>> Good, good morning, Art.

>> Good morning.

>> Welcome back.

>> Thank you.

>> Uh, and I'm looking forward to your Thursday night show.

>> Well,

>> Or the ABC show, which you will be featured. I hope.

>> I am. Well, I'll probably get about 30 seconds. [laughter]

>> You'll probably get more than that.

>> Whatever. Um, what I do hope is that, um, they turn it into, you know, they're saying it's going to be a serious examination of you. I hope that's true.

>> This is Stephen from Columbus, Georgia. Yes. I have got to tell you an amazing story. When I heard it, I verified it and checked it out and I said, "This is an Art Bell story if there ever was one."

>> Fire away.

>> Uh, at the end of January, we had a terrific ice storm here in the Atlanta, uh, you know, Columbus, Georgia, Atlanta area. Atlanta, Georgia area.

>> Actually, I remember the headline.

>> Okay. Um, on Monday morning, a commuter, a businessman was on the way to Atlanta, Hartsfield-Jackson Airport. And of course, you know, they were still going real slow. The ice was still there sparsely. And he noticed something in the median as he was passing it, and he thought it looked like a small animal stuck in between the median.

>> So he got ahead, went ahead and parked it, got to the airport, parked, uh, went inside, and while after he got, got checked into security, he was trying to call animal control or the Atlanta Police Department or somebody to go and check this out.

>> Right?

>> Whether he did or whether they, whether they did or not, nobody knows. But any rate, he got on his flight, flew to LA, and got, when he got to LA, called, of course, called his family, told him he'd made it, made it to LA. All right. And was telling the story to his mother who was babysitting, uh, one of his daughters.

>> And

>> And back in Atlanta, she decided to get back in her car. And this is the amazing part. She decided to get back in her car with her granddaughter, and they went and they tried to find this small animal that's had this orange reflective collar on it.

>> Mhm.

>> Art, they found this little, uh, eight-week-old kitty in the median, stuck in between two little poles.

>> And that cat? Now, this, this is really going to knock you out. They got, there was a number on the tag, a telephone number on the tag, and as evidently this guy's pager. This guy finally called him back and said, "Why are you paging my number?" And asked, and they asked, "Sir, do you own a small, six to eight-week-old kitten?"

>> Was it his?

>> It was his wife's cat who had just been involved in an automobile accident in Atlanta [clears throat] on Friday before the ice storm hit. God, I wonder how in the hell it got into the median and how.

>> Okay, they, the car overturned and.

>> Oh, no. I've got that picture. I, I just. Here's the part I wonder, how it was smart enough to stay on the median instead of crossing into traffic and getting killed. That's amazing.

>> This was absolutely the wildest story I'd ever heard. And it is true. And let me tell you what Delta Airlines did. Uh, they took the cat to Delta Airlines, and they flew the cat to Colorado where the gentleman and his wife were.

>> Oh, how cool is that? So they got their cat back.

>> All right. Well, that's a great story. Thank you very much. That's a great story. How would a cat be smart enough to, especially a kitten, to stay in the median and not go out and get squished? Animals are amazing.

East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.

>> Yeah, this is Mike from Roseville, Michigan.

>> Hello, Mike.

>> Yeah. Um, the other night, someone was being interviewed, uh, and he was, uh, representing the, uh, construction, the, the religious, uh, view of, uh, creation.

>> Oh, you mean that we were, um, created here 6,000 years ago?

>> Yeah. And to me, it's like they could just as easily say we were created six minutes ago, and God gave us all of these memories to make us think that we've been living all these years.

>> Well, without being too flippant, sir, um, it's about as likely.

>> Six minutes ago as 6,000. I, you know, I mean, clearly.

>> Clearly the science is irrefutable. I mean, we do know how long, you know, we've been here, and it's way, way, way longer than 6,000 years. Or how about on, on the critics of your movie?

>> You could have said, "Well, Charlton Heston got the Jews to Israel in just a few hours."

>> All right. Thanks. Um, well,

International Line, you're on the air. Good morning.

>> Hey, Art. Uh, I was calling about the satellite, the one I reported a couple months back.

>> What satellite?

>> Uh, it's a small satellite out there. I launched from a balloon. I told you about it.

>> Oh, that's right. Yeah. Whatever.

>> Yeah. The Lable one. Yeah.

>> Yes. Well, you know, hardly anybody believed you.

>> I, I mean, I, you know, I get these computer messages.

>> Uh-huh.

>> And, um.

>> Do you have your radio on? Or?

>> Oh, yeah. It's in the background. Let me turn it off.

>> Turn it off, please. Um, hardly anybody believed you. Now, I, I, you know, we don't know any private citizens that actually have put a satellite into orbit. It's so fantastic that, you know, a lot of messages came in of, you know, absolute disbelief.

>> Sir,

>> Well, that's cool. I put it up there back in the early '90s. But anyway, that's not the point. I was calling because I've been experiencing some weird problems on it. I had a digital camcorder on it.

>> Mhm.

>> And it's, it's seen in purple now. Something, I think something either impacted [clears throat] it or the lens got burned out or something. But anybody that can receive, uh, 20.6 MHz can intercept the signal. You got to get the HQ points. Um, I don't know what they are right now. I haven't checked it since yesterday.

>> I, I can't get 20.6 megahertz. Uh, or is that gig or meg?

>> Meg. It's, uh, megahertz. It's.

>> 20.6 megs. Really?

>> Yeah.

>> Um, well, now wait a minute. That's, uh, right in the middle of the, uh, the shortwave band.

>> Well, it's not on any specific band. I mean, if you can point to the HQ points, you can receive it. But, uh, all it is is an uplink. You can get my pictures on it or whatever you want. But.

>> What, by what mode are these pictures transmitted?

>> GIF images. GIF.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. Uh, and, and they're transmitted electronically in what fashion?

>> Well, right now, I don't know what I'm going to do with it. I think it's going to burn up.

>> Uh-huh. Okay. Well, see, you flunked that question. In other words, I was asking you what digital mode your GIF pictures were being transmitted in electronically, and you failed to answer that correctly, terminating your call.

First-time caller line, you're on the air. Good morning.

>> Hey, how are you, Art?

>> I'm all right. Turn your radio off, please.

>> Uh, yeah. I got my radio down right now.

>> Yes. Good.

>> Um, I was calling because, uh, you're talking about, well, first of all, I'm calling from Tempe, Arizona.

>> Okay.

>> And, uh, it's been raining very much down here in the desert, as you were speaking earlier.

>> Yes. Yes. The, the desert, if this keeps up, it's not going to be a desert. [laughter]

>> That's absolutely right. Uh, uh, what I wanted to actually bring up with you is, um, there's a lot of things that I study on the internet. Uh, uh, my, my roommate Richard, uh, has told me a lot of things about, you know, he got me into Coast to Coast. Been listening to you for a while. It's the first time I've been calling. And, uh, when you were talking about the, um, the large creatures. Yes. The, uh, large animals.

>> Yes.

>> Um, what I'm thinking is, if, if you remember in the Bible, and I don't have too much faith in the Bible. I study other things, but there was a flood that basically ended everything, and it was reborn again.

>> That's right. Yes.

>> And, uh, what I'm kind of getting at is, I mean, this may be a little bit far-fetched, but I think that whoever the gods, or whoever, whatever you want to call it, that created the earth or has manifested in it, whatever they've created, they're probably coming back to let us know some new information about something.

>> Think so?

>> I, I absolutely think so. And I don't know. I mean, because when you were mentioning, you know, the large animal, it started making me think these, these are probably, I mean, I don't want to call them demons, but I will call them something different than what we've ever experienced before. And they're probably here to give us a message of.

>> Well, one quote, one person's quote in one of the stories I just read was, uh, that it looked like a gargoyle.

>> A gargoyle?

>> Yes. A gargoyle.

>> We would say demon.

>> Uh, you would say demon. Um, uh, that's right. Gargoyle, demon, whatever. Look out there, Southern California, New Mexico, and all this weird weather.

Wildcard line, you're on the air. Hello.

>> Hey. All right. Uh, I was wanting to know your opinion on the, uh, self-inflicted gunshot wound to Mr. Gonzo Thompson. Man, did you hear about that?

>> Yes, of course. I'm, uh, very sad about it, as many people are. And you know why people take their own lives?

>> I don't know why people take their own lives or decide to. And I guess we never know the answer, really, to that question unless they leave us a big note.

>> So were you, were you familiar with his work and like his opinions on kind of what was going on in society today?

>> To some degree. Yes. Uh, but, but again, the big question is why he decided to take his own life.

>> You wonder about that. I wonder, have any of you seen statistics on how many people in any given year? It certainly would be interesting, wouldn't it? Uh, take their own lives, uh, in the US and then around the world in different countries. And I wonder if the suicide rate in the US is, uh, proportionate with other nations or higher or lower. I really don't know. I'm sure that that information is available somewhere.

East of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hi.

>> Hey, how you doing?

>> Okay, sir. Uh, this is, uh, Steve here, calling from a place called Port Huron, Michigan.

>> Yeah, Steve.

>> Uh, me and my wife's been listening to your show for about the last year, and, uh, you know, all the stuff that's going on, you know, the aliens and, uh, creatures running around. I mean, I've seen some things, but I just dismissed it. You know, um, you know, what are our choices? What are we going to do? I mean, we just kiss our butts goodbye, cuz I'm like 41. Do you think anything major is going to happen within my lifespan? Or?

>> You can almost bet on it. Uh, sure, something major, something major already has happened in your lifespan, sir. A lot of major things have occurred in your lifespan. Not the least of which was, uh, 9/11. Uh, the very large tsunami. Things that one would only expect to see perhaps once in a lifetime, and they've already happened. So, you're asking me, do I think something will happen in your lifetime? You bet it will. I've got a feeling something is coming pretty soon, actually.

West of the Rockies, you're on the air. Hello.

>> Hi, Art. This is Jeff from San Marino.

>> How you doing?

>> Oh, pretty good tonight. Actually, calling from Summit Valley, California.

>> Okay.

>> And, um, you know, I'm not always convinced when I hear that somebody has allegedly committed suicide that that is in fact the case.

>> Yeah. I, you know, I'm not sure what the official. It sounded like the official determination was suicide, but yeah, a lot of times maybe it wasn't. Sure.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I hope they look into it and they find out what really happened. Um, reason I called tonight is I, I'm looking forward to seeing you and Whitley and your director on the day after tomorrow, um, on the Oscar stage for the Irwin Allen Disaster Award.

>> Effects on that were quite effective and.

>> They were quite good, and, uh, it won, I believe, in Great Britain, uh, recently for special effects, and we'll have to see what happens.

>> Well, great. I, I wish you guys the best of luck, and I hope you're honored and you get some accolades for that, and thanks for giving us the heads-up on many topics over the years.

>> Take care. Appreciate it.

>> Take care, my friend. And don't forget, speaking of heads-up, this Thursday, that's right, this coming Thursday. So, set your VCRs and, uh, uh, DVRs and such right now. Uh, the ABC special on UFOs between 8 and 10:00 nationwide, 7 Central time, I think. But, uh, check it out. Get out your guide. You don't want to miss this, because obviously it will be a topic for discussion on the program, and we'll, we'll see what kind of treatment ufology gets.

Uh, you're on the air, Coast to Coast, with Art Bell. Good morning. Now that I pushed the button, you're on the air. Hello.

>> Uh, yes.

>> Hi.

>> Hi. How are you doing today?

>> I'm doing fine. What is your first name?

>> Uh, my first name is Melissa.

>> Melissa.

>> I wanted to share a story. Um, when I was about 19, I was sailing up in the San Juan Islands with my parents, and our, um, fuel pump broke, in which my father ordered me to turn off the engine. So, we were, uh, actually adrift for about a good three hours. [snorts] Um, to make a long story short, um, my parents both went down into the, um, uh, excuse me, the forward cabin, and I was up on the, um, in the cockpit. And when I woke in the morning, our boat was like, um, sideways on the beach, which is up near Lummi, um, Indian Reservation.

>> Mhm.

>> And, um, there were like these, it, you, if you could picture a peace sign, they were upside down peace signs. They were like footprints. Some type of animal's footprints. They were going all around the boat. And I hear you talking about, um, what is it? Uh, Chupacabra, I believe.

>> Yes. Chupacabra.

>> Have you ever heard about any of these, uh, type footprints?

>> Well, as a matter of fact, yes, I have. Um, I was just reading some stories. I mean, there we're getting creature stories now.

>> Uh, sort of all across the West, New Mexico, Southern California. Interesting creatures all over the place. What do you think that means?

>> Uh, well, all I know is, um, I, I truthfully believe that somehow a creature had evidently pulled our sailboat up onto the beach because when I woke up in the morning, the, uh, boat was sideways, and this is about a 45-foot, uh, motor sailboat. You know, it's like a yacht, so it's very big. But, and I went, "Dad, look at these footprints." And there were like, you know, it, it was going all around the boat, and it looked like upside down peace signs.

>> Well, uh, that would be better than what creatures usually do, you know, which is to, um, eat people like you. [laughter]

>> Well, we were on a boat, though. You got to remember that. But, who knows?

>> Well, look, hey, I've seen people dragged out of boats by creatures in the movies. I, I know what happens. Well, anyways, I also wanted to comment on the movie called,

>> You know, the little portal just shatters and the hand comes in and you get yanked out right through a little thin 18-inch portal.

>> All right. Have you seen the movie *What Dreams May Come*?

>> What? *What Dreams May Come*? Why, of course.

>> Do, do you think that's how it is?

>> No.

>> Okay. Thank you. I just, I don't think so either. I just want. But I did like *The Day After Tomorrow*.

>> Uh, well, it was, uh, I hope it was a warning to a lot of people. It was obviously perhaps a bit extreme and the time because it was a movie. It was just two hours. So you had to pack everything into two hours. So yes, the time frame obviously was, you know, squished. But, um, but it should have served as a warning. And if that didn't serve as a warning, then the headlines that we're getting every single day, many, uh, like the ones I just read tonight, that ought to be a warning to you all. There's a change underway. If there's anything constant, it's change. And baby, it's moving right now.

All right. Coming up, uh, at the top of the hour, just very few moments, we're going to have Russell Targ. He was in the, uh, official US government remote viewing program. Uh, a pioneer in many applications, and he knows a lot about, uh, psychic stuff.

To talk with Art Bell, call the Wild Card line at area code 775-727-1295. The first-time caller line is area code 775-727-122. To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies, call toll-free at 800-825-5033. From west of the Rockies, call Art at 800-618-8255. International callers may reach Art Bell by calling your in-country Sprint access number, pressing option 5, and dialing toll-free 800-893-903. From coast to coast and worldwide on the internet, this is Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell.

>> There is so much wisdom in that song. Good morning, everybody. Coming up, Russell Targ is a physicist and author who was a pioneer in the development of the laser and laser applications. That's hardware stuff, serious hardware stuff. He was also co-founder of the previously secret Stanford Research Institute's investigation into psychic abilities, uh, back in the 1970s and '80s. His work in this new area called remote viewing was published in Nature, the magazine Nature, the Proceedings of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, IEEE, and the Proceedings of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Russell did graduate work in physics at Columbia University and is co-author of six books dealing with the scientific investigation of psychic abilities. In 1997, he retired from Lockheed Martin Missile and Space Company as a senior staff scientist. He now pursues ESP research in Palo Alto, California, and is also publishing special editions of classic books into psychic research.

Now, it's going to be very interesting to ask him about the story we led read a little while ago about what's going on at Princeton. Uh, now, in this consciousness experiment, uh, we now know that, uh, once again, the needle just went off the chart just before the earthquake that produced the tsunami. So we're beginning to get a lot of history under our belt with this. It's beginning to get to be very impressive.

>> Russell Targ, welcome back to the program.

>> Very happy to be with you this evening.

>> Great to have you. Um, I read a story in the first hour, uh, about this, uh, continuing experiment at Princeton. Are you, uh, sort of up on that?

>> Oh, yeah. That's work done largely by Roger Nelson.

>> Yes. Yes. And, um, it turns out now that the most recent gigantic event was indeed recorded about 30 minutes ahead of time. I refer to the earthquake that caused the tsunami. Uh, the needles just went off the chart again at Princeton. Now it's getting to the point where they've got enough history under their belt that this is beginning to look awfully real.

>> You may be interested to know the biggest effect that they've ever seen was not from an earthquake or a natural disaster, but rather from the acquittal of O.J. Simpson.

>> Yes.

>> What people watch, what scientists like Dean Radin and Roger Nelson watch is a change in the noise of 30 or 40 random number generators all over the world. Mhm.

>> And what it appears is that when some momentous world event takes place, then the noise output of the random number generators, uh, diminishes and they become coherent, as though they are becoming, uh, entrained or coherent with the worldwide consciousness.

>> That's right.

>> Is what one way of looking at it. Now, events like tsunamis, for example, uh, start slowly, and then you build up, and you have an earthquake, and then you build up, and you have a tsunami, and that whole event extends over a dozen hours in the case of tsunami because the wave had to travel all the way from Indonesia across, um, the Indian Ocean to Africa. Sure. It's a very, very long time event. So, it's tough for a scientist to say, in my strip chart that's running, when did the event occur?

>> Well, according to this article, um, they began registering the spike about 30 minutes before the actual earthquake itself. You're familiar, of course, with the 9/11 results. Um, and there are so many occurred before the phenomenon.

>> That's right. Uh.

>> The problem with this data is that a spike could occur two hours before the event, as it did with 9/11, or two hours after the event, or five hours after the event. And the experimenter, in a case like that, has a lot of leeway to say, "Look at my chart. I have this very unusual anomaly occurring." But they don't say in advance when it's going to occur. That's why a magician has such a great opportunity when he's showing you a magic trick. You, in general, don't know what the actual trick is going to be. It's an open-ended point.

>> Oh, here's a quote by Dick Bierman of the University of Amsterdam about all of this. He says, "Very often paranormal phenomena evaporate if you study them for long enough," says Dick Bierman of the University of Amsterdam. But, "this is not happening with the Global Consciousness Project. The effect is real. The only dispute is about what it means."

>> I agree with him. Nick is a physicist, very thoughtful man. I know him well.

>> That's a very strong statement.

>> Well, we, it's clear that something anomalous is happening. Uh, in the case, the O.J. Simpson case is really my favorite instance of all these random number generators getting coherent because in the O.J. case, you had hundreds of millions of people clustered around their radios and television sets waiting for 9:00 a.m. And I did that when I was at SRI also. We just clustered around our sets, and the event occurred. That is like the Academy Award award. The judge tore open the envelope.

>> Yeah.

>> And announced the result, and they said, "Not guilty." And that event had an instantaneous occurrence, and there was no doubt as to when that event occurred, and that was the largest of the events with the global random generator.

>> Russell, the reason I, I think that this is so important is because it has a lot of characteristics of remote viewing, not just in the sense that it seems to transcend time. It seems to be, uh, an arena of, of, of consciousness, um, or it seems to prove an arena of consciousness being something real in the ether, in the air, everywhere, all around us. Um, the very same arena that perhaps remote viewers work in more studiously, more in a more studied way, and a more disciplined way.

>> I agree with that. I think that in the case of the random number generator, the Global Consciousness Project, that has been carried out now for quite a number of years, these are all well-intentioned, careful people.

>> Yes. Uh, the criticism that's been made by a number of parapsychologists, and Dick Bierman would be among them, without certainty, is that they, in general, are the researchers are, in general, not able to say in advance when the signal is going to occur. So if there's global consciousness responding to an event, uh, we know that there's precognition. So that we should, we'd like to agree, well, if hundreds of thousands of people are going to be killed, you might like to have a big event occur when they're killed rather than several hours before they're killed. Or in the case of the 9/11 disaster, if.

People are going to crash into a building and kill 3,000 people. Uh, you'd expect the global consciousness of the planet to hold its breath when that happened, rather than, uh, two hours before it happened, before the people even got on the airplane.

All right. Well, those who do remote viewing, um, claim a more disciplined science, um, a very much more disciplined science. And so, where were the remote viewers on 9/11?

Well, it's hard for a remote viewer to be continually scanning, scanning. First of all, it happened early in the morning, uh, in New York, and even earlier in California. So, the easy answer to your question is that most of the remote viewers were asleep. [Laughter]

But, but I, I meant days, weeks, months, uh, prior to that. Uh, nobody seemed to catch a whiff of it, or did?

Well, no one was scanning. Our program at SRRI was turned off, as you know, in 1995.

Oh, yes. When the government said, "You guys have been doing good work for 25 years since '72, but we no longer have any enemies, so we don't need a psychic group of people doing surveillance for us."

You think that statement's still valid today?

No, I think that, uh, not having any enemies, we obviously have a lot of enemies, and I think a remote viewing program would be very helpful. The reason the program was killed in '95 is that people like the Defense Intelligence Agency and the CIA took a lot of flack from Congress and from, uh, the press, and high-level people hate to be teased. I know it's career-limiting.

All right, Russell, here's, here's a really important question for you. Uh, if there had been a team of remote viewers, uh, good ones, um, scanning, is it possible for, for such a thing? In other words, can you have a team devoted to doing nothing other than scanning for major, eminent, gigantic, perhaps even preventable things, events that are going to happen?

Absolutely. Smith talks about this, uh, in his new book, where he, Paul, Paul Smith is one of the, uh, leaders of the Fort Meade remote viewing program during the Cold War. He describes that during his training, his contra, his monitor, his remote viewing monitor said, "Now, I have a different task for you. Tell me what's the next important thing that we're going to be dealing with here in Army Intelligence."

Uhhuh.

And he didn't know the answer. He just said, "Tell me what's the next thing."

Yes. And Paul said, "I see a ship, and it's been struck by an airborne missile. Some kind of bomber has dropped a missile. It's hit the ship. I see people running around. There's oil spilled all over. There's a big fire."

And he then said to his monitor, who I believe was Ed Dames, uh, "How did I do?" And he said, "Well, how should I know? This is in the future. This is something that's going to happen." And two days later, the destroyer Cole, that's not right, Stark, the, the Stark destroyer was struck by an Exocet missile from an, um, Iraqi airplane. So, this is something that Paul Smith, who's one of the great remote viewing teachers, was able to describe two days before it occurred in response to somebody asking a question just like the one you suggested. "What's the next big thing we're going to be dealing with?" He scanned the whole universe. He was in Fort Meade. He wasn't in Iraq. He's able to scan the universe and say, "The next thing we're going to deal with is a destroyer being hit by a missile."

When, uh, the Defense Intelligence Agency, CIA, and others were supporting all of this in the '70s and '80s, I believe at Stanford, right?

Yeah. Stanford Research Institute.

Yes, that's right. SRI. Um, what kind of tasking were they given, and what really were the results?

We were generally given real-time tasking. We were, uh, one of our favorite famous cases I worked on with psychic policeman, Pat Price. We were looking at a Soviet research and development laboratory in Soviet Siberia, and we were asked to describe what are they doing. And Price was able to describe a giant crane rolling back and forth over a building, which appeared in his mind's eye, in his mental space. And he then went on to say, "Inside the building, they're fabricating a large steel sphere, about 60 feet in diameter, that they're welding together from orange peel shapes. That's what they're building."

Huh.

The CIA concluded from that that they were making some kind of containment vessel, probably a particle beam weapon.

Oh, I see.

And two years later, that exact steel sphere, 60 feet in diameter, was rolled out of the building Price described, and it was indeed part of a particle beam weapon to shoot down the satellites that were taking the pictures that we used for confirmation.

My God, that's, that's a hit. All right. And we wound up having standing in the well of the House of Representatives defending our program because the House Intelligence Committee, House Committee on Intelligence Oversight, felt that there was no way some psychics in California could have that intelligence unless there was some kind of security leak.

All right. Well, let's...

In fact, no leak was found, of course.

Yeah. Let's talk about the need today. I had a call in the first hour of the program, Russell, from a truck driver who said, "You know, we're used to being tested. Uh, we go into one of these weigh stations, and they do a radiological test. You know, they look for anything that might be going tick, tick, tick." But he said, "Uh, gee, you know, they've got the highway closed down to one lane, and they've got somebody out there testing every single vehicle." Uh, and he named the highway for radiological tick, tick, ticks. And that's a little scary. And, and so if there's somebody out there with something that is going tick, tick, tick, it seems to me that there we have a solid job for a remote viewing team. And, and the fact that our government would not now be supporting such an effort when we are at such incredible risk blows my mind.

Well, I think that we could do something like that, but it would be difficult. It's a boring task, is my short answer.

A boring task.

It would be difficult for a remote viewer to sit in a toll booth next to the toll taker.

Oh, well, I wasn't suggesting that so much as sitting, uh, I suppose remote viewing doesn't have to be located right at the place where the bomb passes, right? Remote view...

The remote viewer could have a kind of global task, focusing on what's the next, uh, hazard.

Exactly. I mean, how can we not be doing this, Russell? How can we not be doing it? If you really believe in what you were doing, and you really believe that these results were real, and you're quoting us results, how can we not be doing it?

Oh, we, we found a downed Soviet airplane and Chinese atomic bomb test, and we worked on the Iranian hostage situation. So, I have no doubt that what we're doing is real. We even had a commendation from Jimmy Carter for finding a, uh, downed Russian bomber with an atomic bomb on it, which we found by remote viewing. So, we have a lot of experience and a lot of accreditation for things that we did.

Then how can we not be doing it? The reason we're not doing it is that people are more fearful about being teased in their job than they are of getting the job done. It was the [clears throat] first place was really spelled out to me when I was doing work at Lockheed, which is not psychic work, but, uh, building wind shear detectors, and we went to the Air Force and said, "This is a serious problem. There have been several crashes due to wind shear, and people have been killed."

Right. Aren't you guys interested in working on this?

He said, "We don't have a solution for it. Working on things, working on problems that have no solution is career-limiting. When you show us a solution, then we'll support you. We're not going to support the research." Eventually, we did have a solution, we were solved. But in a way, remote viewing is like that. Uh, we don't understand how remote viewing works. That we've become very skillful at helping people develop the ability. And probably until we have a sound, proven theory for the mechanism for psychic functioning, there's always going to be skepticism about its efficacy and whether it should be supported.

Huh. [Snorts] The, uh, the media is picking up a little bit better on this sort of thing. I've just begun a new series, and I hope you've caught it. It's called "Medium," and I wanted to take a chance to recommend that to my audience. I don't do that with a lot of programs, but this program called "Medium" is really superb. It's really well done. Have you seen it?

I have not seen it, but I certainly agree that the whole country is picking up on the importance and availability of remote viewing. When I was on your show a couple of years ago, I was very impressed that there were 60,000 sites on Google pertaining to remote viewing as, as an entity in quotation marks.

Sure.

And then the following year, which was last year, I looked again before I was on your show, and there were 160,000, and I thought that was astonishing.

So I looked again today, and there's 365,000...

Yes.

...sites pertaining to remote viewing.

Yes.

So you have a doubling time of a year. So if you find a way to invest money in psychic functioning, it's evidently a growth industry. And the reason for that is very easy to explain, and that is remote viewing is very easy to do. There are hundreds of people around the country teaching how to do remote viewing, how to get in touch with your psychic abilities. When people learn how to do that, they're just amazed that that ability has been latent. And you know what they do? They go out and teach other people. So you have an absolutely exponential growth in the interest in remote viewing and people who are teaching remote viewing.

All right, hold it right there. We'll be right back. Russell Tar is my guest from the high desert, which is turning green with all the rain. I'm Art Bell. My guest is a remote viewer. His name is Russell Tar. He's very, very well-respected, um, in all sorts of psychic circles, in a lot of, um, frankly, uh, technical circles. He's a very, very interesting guy, and I've got a couple of incredibly important questions for him. But first, um, I, I see that, uh, remote viewers may have been involved with the police and the FBI during the Patricia Hearst kidnapping mess. Is that true?

Yes, we certainly were. I want to mention that you were talking before about why people don't believe in ESP. Our very first book, "Mind Reach," has a whole chapter that I wrote with Hal Puthoff talking about the loyal opposition and why people are just afraid of psychic abilities. So, I just wanted to mention "Mind Reach" had gone out of print and was selling for $150 a copy on Amazon.

Wow.

We've now brought it back. So, we have a brand new issue of "Mind Reach" talking about the classified stuff that we had done for the CIA for the first time, and it describes the classified applications that you and I were just talking about.

But while out of print, that thing went for 100 and a half?

Yes.

Holy mackerel. That convinced Hampton Roads to bring it back in a new edition with a lot of new information. So, you have the very first book ever written about remote viewing, which is the one Hal Puthoff and I wrote, uh...

Back on the market.

Back on the market.

All right.

And it's, uh, has a lot of new information, and it was a collector's item and is now available.

What did remote viewers do in the Patty Hearst case?

The police department at Berkeley came to visit us at SRRI a couple of days after the Patty Hearst, after Patty Hearst was kidnapped, and they said that we have a kidnapping, and that Patricia Hearst had been taken by somebody, and that somebody was the Symbionese Liberation Army, and they had no idea what it was. They were, they were looking for Symbionese on the map to try and find who could have done that. And Pat Price told them on the spot when they first came to SRRI, uh, that it was a political case and not a ransom case. And Hal Puthoff and Pat Price and I, this is actually the first time I'm telling the story.

Mhm.

Uh, we went to the Berkeley police station with the detectives there, and Pratt Price asked for a mug book, the list, uh, picture book of the people who had been arrested or were known criminals,

Right.

in that area. And he just sat down at a big oak desk and started turning the pages. And this must have been 1974 when the kidnapping was. And he turned pages and got to about the 10th page with four pictures on a page. And he put his finger on the picture of one man, said, "That's the man. That's the ringleader." And his name was, uh, DeFreeze. And it turned out that he, he was the man we know now as Cinque. And nobody knew anything about it. That this was an absolute cold call. Price picked him out of the book.

That's incredible.

So this is a political kidnapping. [Clears throat] And they said, "Well, that guy actually just escaped from prison a few months ago. This is the first we've heard about him. Uh, where did they go?" Right.

Meanwhile, they had taken us to Patty Hearst's house, where there's still, uh, cartridges rolling around on the floor under the bed.

And Price said, "Well, I can tell you where they've gone. I don't know where they are now, but they headed north." He pointed north and said, as he closed his eyes, "I see two big white gas storage tanks and a restaurant and a bridge over the freeway right next to these tanks." And one of the detectives said, "I know where that would be. That's not far from here. That's just over by the refinery." And as we sat in the police station, they dispatched a cruiser, found the kidnap car, which is a station wagon. Of course, they had left it, but they were extremely impressed that we were able to sit in Berkeley and tell them exactly where to go to find the kidnap car.

I'm extremely impressed by the story. Russell, why is this never, why has this not been told before?

Well, we didn't want to tell the story until the last of the perpetrators was actually in prison, and because of the possible danger to ourselves.

Yeah, that's good.

At this point, uh, I'm very sympathetic to what you were saying before, and that is that it's time to tell the truth.

Yes.

That is, uh, I'm not actively doing remote viewing. I'm interested now in helping people to understand that psychic abilities exist. Um, you can use this to make money in the market. You can find your car keys. But I think that psychic ability has on its world stage the great importance that it shows us that we greatly misapprehend the whole nature of space-time. The fact that a Pat Price can quiet his mind, look into the distance, look into the past, describe what occurred, and tell us where something was, indicates that our capabilities are far beyond, uh, the limitations that are being set on it. So I really have an almost propagandistic interest now in getting people to explore their own psychic abilities and, and, and learn to do this.

All right. As I understand remote viewing, it, it, it really, time is not really a factor. Whether we're dealing with the present or the future or the past, it deals equally in these realms. Is that accurate?

That's why we say it's a non-local ability.

Okay. Non-locality said that space and time simply don't matter. And the most important thing I can tell you about psychic ability is that it's no harder to describe an object across the planet than it is across the street. Similarly, there's no greater difficulty in describing what you will see in the paper tomorrow than there is in describing the object I'm holding in my hand.

All right? And I, I, I have a description of how that works. So I'd like to give my website, which is espressarch.com.

All right.

I have a number of papers on my website that talk about how ESP works, uh, together with other things that I'm doing. So you can find Russell Tar at my website, espressarch.com.

I hope it holds up. We've taken a lot of websites down. A lot of people listen. Russell. Um, remote viewing then could conceivably predict a specific event in the future. Correct?

Oh, there's no doubt about it. The bad news side of the Patricia Hearst case, which is also worth mentioning,

We, we worked for about a week with the Berkeley Police Department. Uh, and we also worked a little bit with the Sheriff's Department of Alameda County, and we also worked with the FBI, and we were sworn to not communicate anything between those three agencies.

Uhhuh.

Is very much like the failure of the FBI and the CIA to detect the perpetrators of 9/11, in that here you had the Berkeley police, the FBI, and the Sheriff's deputy absolutely not communicating with one another. If they had gotten together, they'd have probably found the, uh, Patricia Hearst and the other perpetrators months in advance of what they did. But each one felt that they were about to find the ace, which would be a big prize, of course.

Sure.

And as a result, they didn't cooperate. So it was a great, it wasn't a failure of intelligence because they had enough information. It was a failure of cooperation.

Mhm.

And our president is trying to overcome that right now.

Can the future be changed?

You can make use, uh, I, I believe that, uh, events are determined. I think that things have causes, but we can know the future. And if you don't like the future that you see, it appears that you have some choice as to what's going to happen.

An example of that would be where our CA contract monitor, uh, during the program, had seen a lot of psychic functioning in our laboratory, had been seen many things. Um, this is Ken Crest, who's now written a, a paper that's, uh, in the public domain about the work we did for the CIA. So, a lot of this is coming available. But Crest was in Detroit with a colleague, and he had a dream. He had a very frightening dream about being in an airplane crash. And, uh, he's a very, very experienced flyer, has flown thousands of airplane trips, but this was so frightening that he decided, uh, to cancel his trip. He, he just felt from what he knew about psychic abilities, he wasn't going to do this. And as he drove his partner to the airport, his partner got on the airplane and flew away. Crest then had the terrible experience of seeing the plane crash. So, what we would say here is that he used his precognitive dream, that came, the information in the precognitive dream, to avoid putting himself on the airplane. He experienced the crash by seeing it, but he didn't have to experience the crash by taking part in it.

So the answer is that's yes. It's a yes. The future can be changed.

Well, that would be a good example of a yes, where he was able to make use of information that was psychically derived to not have that experience.

Well, that certainly raises the worth of, uh, the ability to do this, then. Uh, because that was a big question. I mean, if, if the future is written in concrete, then what's the point? Uh, other than, I guess, knowing when you're going to go or when something big is going to happen. But if indeed an event can be altered, then, um, uh, you know, the, the worth of what you're doing goes way way up.

Well, I think that we have life-saving opportunities. Um, in the book I was talking about "Mind Reach," I talk about an early experience where I was riding my motorcycle on a parkway in Palo Alto, where I live, and I began to worry as I would buzz along this high-speed, uh, street, what would happen if there was a branch or board in the road? If I, [clears throat] would hit a board at 40 miles an hour, I might crash. And I sort of began to worry about that. This is a nice, open, clear road with nothing in it. But I began to slow down and slow down as I worried about this mythical board. And as I came around the corner, there was a board in front of me. But I was then going slowly enough so I could just bump over it instead of crashing.

Yes.

So it's a way of making use of psychic abilities in your life, seeing what's in your future or in the distance, which is often the same thing.

Mhm.

To actually enhance the quality of your life or avoid an accident. So the answer to your question, I believe, is yes, that you can use psychic abilities. You can use your precognitive abilities, uh, to change an outcome that appears to you psychically. It's as though you move off the ordinary materialistic plane where we live, the, uh, ordinary real space-time plane, and get information and see the future. And if you're able to do that, if you can quiet your mind and look into the future, then you can make use of that information. If you don't quiet your mind, if you just bump along in the freeway and in the subway, uh, with the psychic noise and the physical noise, then you're going to be subject to ordinary causality, and whatever is going to happen will happen, and you don't have a lot of control. That's why all the disciplines that teach meditation say it's critical to take charge of your chattering mind and find out a way to quiet it so that you can expand your awareness and take advantage of the opportunities that are right at hand.

Well, of course, this may have been an ability that human beings, uh, have long had and have sort of, um, I don't know, masked over by the noise of modern living. I mean, I am surrounded by computers. Is, I have deadlines. I'm watching clocks. I'm doing a million things in my mind when I'm doing a program like this, Russell. My mind is not quiet. There's no chance that I'd get a, a vision or a warning of anything. Um, I'm so busy, like most people, frankly, are. However, remember the recent earthquake and tsunami? Well, the story was that almost all the animals escaped. They knew it was coming. The animals escaped, but not the human beings. The animals had time. They didn't have to check their email.

The human beings died. The animals got, got out of there in time.

Yeah, I've read that they ran to higher ground.

Well, is that what we're talking about here?

Well, what we're talking about is find that I, I want to agree with you. It's been known for thousands of years that are the earliest, uh, uh, Vedic writings and the Hindus and, and the Buddhists and the Gnostic Christians, the Kabbalistic Jews, and the Sufis, that's everybody, all the mystics have known since, uh, 2,000 years before Christ that it was possible to expand your awareness and experience, uh, moving into these, uh, spacious realms. It's been talked about. We can talk about that later on. But, uh, that ability is available, but you have to find the off switch on your mental chatter.

And easier said than done, actually.

Well, you're busy in the studio. There must be a half an hour during the day.

Oh, yes.

Where you can sit, uh, not to be disrespectful, but everybody has a half an hour where they can sit down and discover who they are.

Absolutely.

And that's what's been asked for for millennia.

Now, is it true that you worked with the NSA? The NSA is probably, I would think, the most secretive agency that we have. I mean, they're really a dark, dark agency, and, um, they break codes, do things like that. And were you, were you or was your group involved with the NSA?

We had two very humorous interactions with the NSA, and the NSA is not known for their humor.

Oh, absolutely not. Uh, in the very first remote viewing that we did with Ingo Swan, with, when he first came and taught Hal Puthoff and me how to be psychic, uh, we had something called Project Scan 8, which is scanning by coordinates. And a CIA friend, who's not even a contract monitor at that time, gave us the coordinates of his cabin, and, uh, Ingo Swan was then given those coordinates and asked to describe what was there. And of course, we didn't know what it was, except that it was, uh, coordinates that looked like they were on the East Coast of America. And Swan went on to describe a large facility with underground bunkers and a semi-circular driveway and buildings and, uh, radar dishes, and on and on.

And just about that time, Pat Price called us, having heard about our work with Uri Geller, which is another story, and he said, "Oh, I can look at that site. I've been using my psychic ability to catch crooks." And Price drifted psychically into the place and read the file folders inside the building. Price was the only one we know who could read. And all the material they gave was correct. And the CIA was very amazed because that wasn't what they had targeted us on. And Price explained, "Well, the more you hide something psychically, the more it shines like a beacon in psychic space." The reason I zeroed in on this is that guy's cabin was not so interesting, but this huge NSA facility really got my attention.

Yeah. And I'm sure it did too.

And I described that whole event with the NSA in "Mind Reach," was the only place that's ever, ever been described how Price was able to read the file folders.

We wound up having a whole NSA investigation because they were furious, I'm sure,

with the idea that the CIA would target psychics on a super-secret code-breaking facility in Virginia.

Oh, brother.

That they, they were not amused by that. I'm sure not.

After the hour, I can tell you about the other entertaining thing we did with the NSA.

Um, entertaining, huh? Well, uh, it doesn't sound like they were particularly entertained, perhaps horrified.

Well, everything we did taught us more about the capabilities that we all have with our psychic abilities. It was a great learning process for us.

Yes. But it seems to me, uh, after such an event, the NSA, for example, would want you on their side. And if they couldn't have you on their side, then they would want you locked up in a very deep, dark basement somewhere, uh, unavailable to be looking at their secret code-breaking facilities.

Let's talk about code-breaking after the hour.

All right, good. That's the way to do a tease. Code-breaking after the hour. The NSA, the No Such Agency, folks. I just, I don't know. Humor doesn't seem like the right word. Alerted, horrified, and, and many other words that I probably ought not use. All right, everybody. We'll take a break from the high desert, the high green desert. This is Coast to Coast AM, raging through the night this night with Russell Tar.

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It is. Whoever's in charge of the server that serves up the fast blast questions, let me inform you that it's blown up. It's not working. Too many questions, I suspect, for Russell Tar. Um, I'm sure we'll get that repaired and back online shortly. But we have a lot of notches in our "Let's Take Down a Server" quest here on Coast to Coast Day. And Russell Tar is my guest, and he's the real McCoy. He goes way back. The original program, the whole remote viewing thing. It is, it's as real as a heart attack. We're going to talk about code-breaking and the NSA in a moment. Once again, Russell Tar, and I think the subject was code-breaking. You know, I could mention that people have figured out while your server is down that they can send questions to me directly at espressarch.com.

Oh, you really want, uh, you really want some, uh, email, do you?

I don't want 10 million, but if somebody has a question, uh, they can write to espressarch.com.

Well, that's a website. But that's a website.

Yeah, I, I'm reachable through that.

I see. Do you want to give out your actual email address or...

That, that's that's very easy. My actual email has a spam arrest, so it'll slow them down.

But if they go through my website, it have, they can do it swiftly.

I see.

It'll be actually easier through the website than through my...

You understand?

So there's a, a submission place on the website they can click on and just send off the email.

And send me a whole letter.

And you, of course, will respond instantly. Instantly as I'm talking to you.

No, don't do that. All right.

Parallel processing.

Yes. Multitasking. Uh, code-breaking.

After the CIA sent us off looking at the NSA facility in Virginia, uh, we became friendly with some of the people at the NSA and said, "No, no, we weren't spying on you. It's just, uh, it's all the CIA's fault." And we began to talk with people at the NSA. Maybe we could, uh, investigate the security of their codes. Would they give us a piece of code, and we would try and read it psychically?

No kidding.

And they thought that was a very interesting idea because they'd like to know if their billion-dollar program was really secure. And we pursued that with them. Hal Puthoff actually had been employed at the NSA before he came to Stanford Research Institute.

So you're telling me they actually supplied you with some sort of code? Uh, what? What? In what form? A computer?

No, no. That, that's what we proposed to them.

Uhhuh.

But that idea trickled up, and we gave many briefings, trickled up the line at NSA, and they were worried about having us actually look at their code. Their code is so secret. Yes.

They didn't want some psychics in California to see it. Obviously, what could be sillier than that? So, I had a good proposal for them. I said, "Why don't you put your, give us a paragraph of coded message, put it in a sealed envelope inside of a top-secret envelope, and send it into the SRI security system for us to hold, but not open." And we, because of our, uh, remote viewing, all had top-secret clearances. So this is an appropriate thing to do. Just write out a paragraph in your best cipher, send it into the security people at SRRI, and we will tell you what's in the envelope, and we don't even have to open your silly envelope.

Oh, brother. Now, we had good reason to believe that that was going to work because we had done many, many experiments of the form, "Here's a picture of a National Geographic site. Tell me what it looks like." And that was our stock and trade. And we had done that for the CIA and for other people. And we knew that the object in the envelope trick could be well done by remote viewing.

Mhm. The idea that we could break their code without even seeing it [snorts] so upset them right up the line to Bobby Inman, who is head of the NSA, that they broke off all contact with this at all. They didn't want to discuss it. The whole idea basically freaked them out.

I'm sure it did.

Now, since then, uh, years later, I've been teaching remote viewing in Italy and other places. The Italians are very, very psychic, and that's another story we could talk about. But at one workshop I was teaching, my wife Patricia was taking another workshop on some kind of sensitivity training where all the attendees would write a question in Italian, of course, and put it in an envelope, and then each of the attendees would reach into the box, pull out an envelope, hold their hand over it, and write an answer to the question. You got that? It's all in Italian.

Yeah, you bet.

And of course, my wife doesn't speak Italian, and the thing is in the envelope anyway. But to go along with the gag, she wrote out in English that what this person should do was get more exercise, start walking, uh, take time out of their life to get in touch with their physical body, and so on and so forth, which is not actually apropos to the spiritual workshop. When the envelope was opened, the person had asked in Italian, "What sort of exercise program should I start to deal with my aches and pains and physical body?" So this was a case where Patricia did exactly what we had proposed to do for the NSA. A message was written in a code called called Italian was sealed in an envelope, and somebody was able to read the code and respond to it while the whole thing was all sealed up.

You know, all of these are extremely impressive, of course, Russell. Um, but let me ask you this. You're telling us about your hits, and that's what I would expect you to do. How many misses are there, uh, in the overall remote viewing?

The work at SRRI and the outstanding work of Joe McMonegal, who is one of our remote viewers and probably the most successful, we're right about two-thirds of the time. So I'm certainly not saying we're right all the time, though that has happened. As you know, when we were forecasting silver for the into the commodity exchange a number of years ago, we made nine forecasts over a period of nine weeks, and we're right every time. And we can talk about that later. But to be right, uh, two-thirds of the time about specific events is so astronomically above the possibility of chance.

No, sir. We're, we're not talking about chance at all.

Obviously.

Because people give remarkably accurate descriptions of places, events...

Right. So, so, but here's the thing, Russell. It's so remarkably beyond all of that that I can't believe that embarrassment or even, I don't know, fright, fear, uh, any of those things would keep the agencies that need the kind of information you could supply from utilizing you and people like you.

Well, there's two different sources of interference with our pursuing psychic ability. Uh, one is the people from the French Revolution and the Enlightenment, who are represented by modern physics and the New York Times, who would rather be wrong than be silly. As long as they have company, as long as the establishment says there's no psychic ability, they will go along with that idea rather than break new ground and be laughed at. The New York Times is protecting us from superstition and silly ideas and crackpots, and the Good Gray Times is out there defending us. So, as far as the Times is concerned, there is no ESP. The scientific community, represented by our good buddy Michio Kaku, for example, says there's no psychic ability. Modern science understands everything in the physical universe, he says, and will soon have an equation less than an inch long to describe everything.

That's right.

And there is no ESP. So he is also trying to defend, he, he's basically trying to save physics from us, from you and me.

Well, I've been urging Dr. Kaku to look into the Princeton stuff, for example, and remote viewing, and he's promised me he would. Um, there's enough here, uh, so that even Dr. Kaku, uh, who is a scientist above all, I hope, and I'm sure, uh, would look at the numbers and couldn't deny something worth investigating. The data is overwhelming. When the CIA says, "Describe the site," and the man draws an eight-wheel crane and a gantry, or he describes an atomic bomb test that failed, as we did with China. Or we describe the location of Patricia Hearst's car. There are just so many events. Um, and in the book that I've written, especially in "Mind Reach," which was the one we just brought back that I'm talking about, we have a multitude of pictures where I get to hide at the Superdome, and a person draws the Superdome. The next day, I hide at Grant's Tomb, and he draws Grant's Tomb. So you can't say that it's his lucky day.

[Snorts]

Now, the other interesting group of people who are worried about psychic functioning, uh, are not the materialists, but the, uh, the, the American fundamentalists, who say, "Yes, there is psychic functioning, but it's from the devil."

Yes, I know.

And we had those at the, uh, at the CIA also.

I know. I, I listen, I definitely don't underestimate the, uh, the number of fundamentalists in America. I very well know how many there are, and there are many, Russell. I get zillions of emails from fundamentalists, and that's exactly what they believe, and that's a very, very strong force in America right now, politically. It's a gigantic force of...

That was very amazing for us at the CIA. We were doing good work. They even hired Pat Price away from us to work for the CIA. And at that time, there were still people within the CIA, okay, so there couldn't be anything like that. It doesn't make any sense. And other people saying, "Yes, we know this is ESP, but it's satanic, so we shouldn't be doing it."

It's really hard for a physicist to know what [clears throat] to do, caught between those powerful forces.

Um...

What we do is we teach everybody we can find how to do this. And eventually, with 365,000 remote viewing sites, we will simply overwhelm the naysayers, cuz they look around and discover that everybody is around them is psychic, making use of remote viewing, except them.

But the thing is, most scientists don't believe in God. And so if they don't believe in God, they don't believe in an entity that would be creating evil. I, I mean, I have asked scientist after scientist, the real McCoy, that come on my program, and press to the wall, they'll tell you, "No, I don't believe in God." And so you would think that the scientific community, uh, would, uh, sort of generally, um, look at this somewhat neutrally, wouldn't they?

You would hope so. That people don't, that is researchers don't believe in ESP. They, they see it and they experience it. It's, I don't believe in ESP any more than I believe in lasers, cuz I know how to manifest it. We once had a very famous, I was going to say a Nobel Prize, he should be a Nobel Prize, and it was a famous scientist came to our lab and was part of SRRI's oversight committee. He said, "Show me something psychic." And the way I always did that is that I would help him get in touch with his own psychic abilities by having him describe where somebody else had gone to hide. And of course, I wouldn't know where the other people went to hide. There's a kind of psychic hide-and-go-seek that we did for two decades at SRRI. So this fellow, uh, I finally explained to him, in his shocked condition, that he was going to be the psychic. And I said, "Now, close your eyes and tell me what you experience with your eyes shut with regard to where they're hiding." He said, "Well, what do you think? When I close my eyes, it's dark. I don't see anything." So I persuaded him to imagine that he saw something. And he said, "Well, I can imagine that I see a duck. It reminds me of my mother's farm back in Israel." And that's all I get. I, I don't get anything else. It's dark when I close my eyes. And then our lab director and Hal came back from their hiding place, which in this case was the duck pond. So we took him out, showed him the traveling orders, and the duck was still sitting on the road for him to see.

Yes. So, if I can just get the person to suspend their disbelief,

Right.

uh, it's very easy to manifest psychic abilities, which is why you've got all these hundreds of thousands of sites, because people are catching on that this ability is available. But our government, which needs it the very most right now, uh, near as I can tell. I mean, we're in fear of nuclear and biological weapons, and awful things are on the horizon. The, uh, the whole world's, uh, uh, climate may be changing. Uh, the North and South Pole are sort of melting. I mean, all these really wild things are going on. Uh, we could certainly use these talents officially. And again, I'm saying it doesn't seem to me that embarrassment or fear are sufficient to keep something that has a two-thirds correct hit rate on individual things to happen or to locate can be ignored. It just can't be ignored.

I certainly agree with you. And the fact that psychic abilities exist as robustly as they do show that we significantly misapprehend the nature of the space and time we live in. The fact that you can look into the distance, look into the future, and describe what's there shows that we have capabilities far beyond the limitations that are normally believed.

Well, I, I don't know. My, my words keep echoing in my own mind. How can they ignore it? They, they just can't. And yet, for some reason, they are just, I mean, fear and embarrassment at those levels, not enough. They would want to know. They would want to employ these talents. Why aren't they knocking on the door?

Well, there's also a scientific argument. The fact that psychic abilities work as well as they do show that we significantly misapprehend the whole nature of the space and time that we live in.

Yes. So it's a kind of head-in-the-sand [clears throat] ostrich posture that prevents people from invest, prevents the government from supporting this. I, I would think that as more and more tens of thousands of people bring psychic abilities into their lives, that even the federal government will catch on to the fact that there's an ability here that should be pursued.

All right, let's try it from this angle. Uh, let's try it from the pure science angle. Russell, do you think there's a time when physics, uh, hard physics, when hard science will stumble into the realm of remote viewing, or into the area perhaps, as, as we approach this new age of quantum everything, there's going to be a point where science and the metaphysical are going to meet? What do you think, Russell?

I think that there will be. I think that, uh, psychic abilities. Well, uh, a number of years ago, working, I had a theory for psychic functioning together with physicist Elizabeth Rauscher that we published, and that's on my website, espressarch.com, where we talk about a physical model for how psychic ability works and how it can be made compatible, how it is compatible with the rest of relativity theory and quantum physics, uh, without, uh, breaking any laws that a psychic functioning. The mathemat, I, I sort of took a breath to figure out where this st, the mathematician Manouski described a space-time that allows psychic functioning. And on my website, espressarch.com, I talk about this complex space-time in which there is non-local connection of awareness, where you have direct apprehension of the future and of the distance without violating any physics. So I think that there will be. This may not be the right answer, but it's a, the answer will look something like the one that we describe, because we don't violate any physical laws, and the very simple mathematical construction allows you to expand your awareness into the distance and into the future in a way that would be expected if we live in a complex space-time.

I guess what I'm talking about is something, uh, so physical as a meter, for example, measuring, uh, energy in some realm that we have not yet measured that would begin to register when, um, somebody like yourself or a remote, some other remote viewer were doing their thing. Uh, some, let me think about this, and the break's coming up. Let's go ahead and take the break. We'll be right back. It's been a [singing] long time with no peace of mind.

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>> Crystal from the high desert. You're listening to coast to coast. I'm Art Bell. I'm told remote viewing can do practical things. You know, that's always one of the challenges that um uh the American public brings brings up uh instantly. If my little messenger service here were working, I'd be getting a million of them right now. You know why? Okay. Well, why not hit the lottery? Well, they have. Why not um predict the stock market and make a gazillion dollars? Well, they have. Uh the truth is they have done all of that and um so I've always wondered apparently then there there's no sort of cosmic ethical barrier against doing those kinds of you know personal profit things.

>> Russell >> I I had several inquiries [clears throat] about that also about stocks and personal gain. We have done that that can be done. In fact, uh my my interest as I mentioned to you before is to change the paradigm and publishing books isn't going to do that in my opinion. But if we make a gazillion dollars that will definitely get people's attention in 21st century America, >> right? So we have started a investment club using psychic abilities and we are looking for it's an invitational club we've been going on for a number of months and we're looking for people who are experienced remote viewers who've been trained by somebody who've gone through a training program and there are number of I what's happened is that Ingo Swan trained Hal and me then Hal and I trained six other army people and those six other army people trained the world. So there's dozens and dozens of remote viewing trainers out there right now and what we're looking for we've got about 50 people working with us forecasting standard and pores up or down and we're doing that pretty successfully.

>> Well I was going to ask has it been going on long enough to establish any sort of even small track record yet? What we find is that in applied remote viewing, we're right about twothirds of the time, whether we're forecasting the market or looking for missing errors.

>> All right. Well, my question, >> I want to just very briefly invite experienced trained remote viewers to send me an email if they would like to work with us on changing the paradigm.

>> By all means, I'm sure you'll get plenty of response. But my question was about a cosmic ethical barrier. In other words, is there any is there no limit to what can be done both on the positive and the negative? What some people might consider the negative side. Personal gain, some people might consider that uh sort of a beyond some sort of ethical line for all of this, but apparently there is no such line. Is that right?

>> It's the same line that limits your ethical behavior in any other in any other way. that there are ethics that limit whether you go out and beat somebody up and rob them that I'm 6 and 1/2 ft tall. I could go up out down the street and beat somebody up and and rob her. I don't do that because >> but there's no such ethical >> Got it. >> ethical purpose. People simply don't want to live in that kind of world.

>> Yes. But in the process itself, there is no such limit. Uh the only limit is your own ethical.

>> People are able to look into the future. For example, one of the questions that I had on my email is, uh, can you use can I use this to see my girlfriend undressed? Typical remote viewing.

>> And Pat Price was asked that question frequently because he was such a prodigious remote viewer.

>> Yes. >> He said, "If I can focus my attention anywhere on the universe, why would I want to look into your bedroom? I can have any other any experience visually that I want to have. M >> why would I want to see you undressed? And I I think that that's an appropriate answer.

>> Well, for some uh but on the other hand, there there might be some that would go uh I mean Britney Spears, whatever, you know, there would be those people there would be the people over on the sort of the other side of the ethical center line, >> right? I think the thing becomes self uh limiting in that as people discover that they are non-local awareness if they discover that they're able to focus their attention into the distance and into the future and are not limited by ordinary spaceime then it breeds a kind of ethical use. It's not that they won't do remote viewing anymore. It's that they are aware that they live in a different kind of world than they had been before.

>> That said, Russell, >> and they will tend not to misuse the ability.

>> Yes. That said, though, Russell, uh, do some people have sexual experiences while they are remote viewing.

>> Well, you know, they do. There's a whole literature. I could just hear you laughing as you asked me that. Well, >> uh, yes. >> It seemed the right time for that question. >> It's the right time. It's getting past midnight. we're getting. >> Yes. >> Uh there there's no doubt uh that people can have there's [snorts] a whole continuum of remote viewing which we did at SRRI as a nice sanitary uh ability where you sit in the laboratory and describe on your mental screen what you're experiencing more or less visually. But you can extend that to a fullblown out-of- body experience, the kind that Bob Monroe or Alistister Crowley talked about, where you have a out- of- body experience where you bring with you all of your sensitivity, uh, emotionality and sexuality and can experience all kinds of things with a distant cooperative person. [snorts] That is uh Bob Monroe who wrote the book Journeys Out of the Body uh met his wife on an astral vision. Alistister Crowley talks about sex on the astral plane. Uh McKinley Caner who wrote Andersonville won a Pulitzer Prize in his book don't touch me. He talks about his experience in the war in Korea when he could go back and have sexual relations psychically with his wife. And he describes that in some detail in his book and his wife objected because it was not a good time for her. He would be thinking about her at his nighttime and she'd just be driving to work.

>> And they loved each other. It just wasn't the right time as it were. >> Not when she's behind the wheel. No. So there's a a whole literature uh of people talking about sex on the astral plane and uh that's not what we did at SRRI cuz we were always concerned that we didn't want someone to have a bad experience. But there is no doubt that as you move your awareness into spaceime that you can have a strong interaction with a distant person. Well, >> and there's a significant literature about that.

>> As you quiet your mind uh to do remote viewing, >> generally that works better with consenting adults. >> I'm with you. As you quiet your mind for remote viewing, uh is an OBBE sort of right next to you and rather immediately available to you because of the state you're in if that's the direction you desire to go.

>> Yes. If if you are comfortable with that experience, if if you are comfortable with the remote viewing practice, you can then bring in fact that's what remote viewers do. That's what the uh the various trainers have you do. As you bring more and more of your sensory apparatus into the four, your sense of smell, your sense of taste, your sense of touch, you get more and more involved at the distant location and then eventually you can begin to interact with a person at the distant location.

>> All right, this is a question that I once asked Ed Dames, but I think it's absolutely relevant to ask you this, too. Um, as I mean you were at the top of the pyramid of the training of remote viewers in America, but as the pyramid now expands and when it finally gets to the point where perhaps even millions and millions of people are remote viewing Russell, >> then finally uh uh Mioaku will catch on.

>> The scientists will be the last ones. But when when their kids come home from school and you say, you know, I've learned to be a remote viewer, then then the scientists will begin to listen.

>> Huh. >> Well, my question though actually was, what kind of impact would there be uh in the nonlocal mind with that many people doing it? Would there be an impact? Would that be something that a remote viewer would know that millions of minds are out there roaming? I think that people will become more peaceful and that they will begin to surrender what the Buddhists call their story and they'll just be uh they will become less involved with uh making money and uh take climbing up over the bodies of other people to advance themselves because in order to do remote viewing you simply have to stop the chatter. There's no disagreement. In order to experience these fleeting feelings and pictures, you simply have to stop the ongoing mental chatter. No matter who the teacher is, they would agree with that. Different people have different ways of doing it. But you simply have to get quiet, right? When you get quiet, you begin to discover things about yourself >> and your own got it >> uh noise that makes you a less violent, less aggressive, less materialistic person. And um what the Buddhists say is just give it a try. It's it's like a lab report. You don't have to believe anything. If you'll just sit down, uh, take a 10-day meditation retreat where the objective is to sit down and shut up for 10 days, it'll change your life because you have a chance to finally boil off your story and get in touch with your non-local awareness. It change it's a life-changing experience.

>> Do you think that many millions of people would have any effect on the non-local mind itself? Will there be sort of an awareness of so many more minds?

>> Well, the transcendental meditators uh have claimed for a long time that there is data to that effect. I I simply don't know. It's widely claimed in the TM community that experiments have been done in Washington DC in particular that when they had 2,000 TM people during the summer during July and August, which is the most violent time in Washington DC, the TM meditators were meditating for hours a day on increasing the peace, harmony, and coinc coherence in Washington and there was a highly significant decrease in the amount of violence in the city and I'm sure you've you've heard this story. It's been uh widely described. It's published in the psychological literature.

>> I'm aware of it. Yes. >> Uh so what it indicates is that a large number of coherent experience meditators can affect the uh violent nature of the community. We're talking about remote influencing now to be fair, right?

>> Yes. >> Uh-huh. Uh, so without question, your answer, you know, I I did some pretty weird experiments. I know you sort of know. I think you know about them, right?

>> I I don't know the experiments that you've done. Actually, >> you don't. Oh, no kidding. Um, years ago, just for the fun of it, because I was fairly young then and stupider than I am now, I asked millions of people uh on a number of occasions to try and make rain, for example, in areas where there was no rain and no forecast of rain and they were dry and they were desperate and by God we made rain within hours. You've just done it. Just started Rain Lake Hill right here where I'm sitting in California.

>> Anyway, we did this about nine different times with scary a scary amount of success. So much so that I slowed up and stopped and I said, "You know what? This seems like to me it's real. And I don't know what we're doing. I don't know what we're tampering with. I don't know what the possibilities are for a mistake. We're going to think long and hard before we do this again." I'm still thinking long and really hard about it.

>> I think that that's wise. I have not been involved with the uh uh distant mental influence except in the healing side. But I think try trying to change the universe with your thought is a risky >> uh thing to do except the very first experiment that Hell Pudof did at the SRI program, one that we describe in detail in mind reach. The very strong experiment that Ingo Swan did was to change the behavior of a magnetometer buried in a vault at Stanford research at uh Stanford University.

>> That would be very impressive. Did >> had to slow up the cycling of a ball that was floating in a magnetic field superconducting ball that was supposed to be again we got the government's attention. This was a space project which is now in orbit, the uh gravity probe B project. And this little neodymium ball was floating in a magnetic field, superconducting, shielded from every possible force. And Ingo stopped the uh oscillation that had been going on for weeks and weeks. was not only a Navy project but somebody's dissertation the psychic from California comes in totally changes the output of the apparatus and that was another uh government inquiry >> I >> but it shows that our thoughts can have effects in the physical world >> yes these sorts of things are what puts it over the top for me and ought to be putting it over the top for the scientists involved um look they've got to believe what's in front of their eyes. And if that was really done and things of that magnitude were done, uh Russell, how >> in many cases the scientists are going to be the last ones to believe their their wives and girlfriends and children are going to come home having learned something about remote viewing in their college classes or from their friends. and then then the the paradigm will change and we'll begin to learn something more about the nature of the spaceime that we live in and the internet is a good force here. The fact that there's these hundreds of thousands of remote viewing websites say that uh this is not going to be submerged but uh it's going the paradigm will change.

>> Mhm. And my I should mention that my interest in the forecasting of the stock market is not particularly to make money. Uh but money is what is understood in America.

>> Oh yes. >> And if we create another uh significant stock market adventure, people will get the idea that something like this is going on.

>> All right, Dumb question. If you were able to uh instruct enough people to predict what was going to happen in the stock market and it got out of control, Russell, um it would bring down Wall Street. You couldn't have that many people.

>> There's a danger that it would pull the market when we were doing this in >> Yeah. uh in the 80s where I mean we made nine calls and made $120,000 and we got pretty excited. Of course, the following year we failed. We lost the spiritual focus. Our investor wanted us to do it twice as often and we were not successful. So, I'm definitely not telling people that this is a sure thing. Uh but since then we've gotten a lot smarter and had a lot more success and the only time like uh Ro like Dangerfield uh we don't get any respect except when we make money in the market. That's what Nova made a film about remote viewing. We're on the front page of the Wall Street Journal because um making money in the market is what people understand. How did you lose your spiritual focus?

>> Our investor, who was quite a nice guy, had just made uh half of $120,000 with no work and just watched us do that week after week, forecasting the silver market. He wanted us to do it twice as frequently.

>> Yes. and doing it twice as frequently meant that our remote viewer did not get the feedback from Monday's trial until after Wednesday's trial.

>> So, he had an open remote viewing cycle and it interfered with his ability to describe the next thing rather than the last thing. So, it was in one word, the problem was greed. That we're trying to accelerate the experiment. We didn't have the internet to help and it was just a poorly done, greedy experiment. It didn't work.

>> All right, hold it right there, Russell. Well, uh, maybe maybe it was what you just described and maybe it was that cosmic ethical barrier that I suggested might be there, but but it would seem not, which would mean that remote viewing could be used for virtually anything. But I think if you listen carefully to what Russell said, he said pretty much to get there to quiet your mind sufficiently to be able to do it, uh, you would have to become in essence a better person. So the likelihood for evildoings is low. I'm Art Bell. I want to touch on the subject of UFOs for just a moment uh, in two ways. Wanted to remind you, all of you, that there's going to be something very unusual that occurs on uh the ABC television network this Thursday. It's going to be a 2-hour special by Peter Jennings on the subject of UFOs. It promises to be, it's advertised to be a serious look at the subject by a major network. And if it turns out to be that, then it's, you know, the first time that that's happened in all of my memory. And it's a very, very serious event. So, it's between what, 8 and 10:00. That's prime time by a major network, ABC, this coming Thursday. You don't want to miss that. Definitely don't want to miss that. Um, Russell, welcome back. Uh, that, you know, in in the eupfology field, boy, that's a big step. Do you think anything like that might occur for remote viewers or in fact the whole psychic world some investigation at that level? You know, 2 hours of prime time network stuff would be big. Well, there was a hourlong NOVA program uh that was released in 1984 and then shown was one of NOVA's most popular films was it called the case of ESP that really featured the remote viewing and forecasting in the stock market and even some distant healing was a very positive show on NOVA of all places and then that was pulled uh in the middle 1990s. So, it used to be it used to be that you could purchase it from NOVA.

>> He stopped showing it and it's no longer available.

>> Isn't that interesting? >> But it was uh a very positive Tony Edwards made the film for the BBC Horizon was a 90minute film in England was an hourong film in America and it gave us a lot of good press. It's a very sensible film called The Case of ESP.

>> All right. Uh >> so maybe we'll see another one like that. >> Maybe that this audience is very interested in UFOs and I wonder if you have ever looked at the subject. Uh it was I think it was Ed Dames and maybe you can verify this too. Ed Dames who told me that uh remote viewing is kind of like Google. I mean you enter you know uh something or another. In fact, you could go enter UFOs in Google and you'd get all these results. And is is remote viewing something like that? Well, Ingo Swan wrote a book called Penetration where he talks about his personal UFO experiences. Uh with regard to remote viewing in Google, my experience is that if you enter the psychic realm, if you enter the information realm of non-local mind, you can get the answer to any question that has an answer.

>> That doesn't make you omnisient because you have only a finite little brain. So you can't know everything there is to know. But my experience is that any well-posed question that has an answer can be known. So it's a it's a lot like Google. For example, you can go to Google and get the answer to all the questions you want to have answers to, but you can't have access to the whole database cuz that would require infinite time. Well, as we know though, when you go to Google and you put in some a search, you might get some hits back that are totally relevant to what you wanted to know, and you might get some that aren't so relevant, but came up because they were similar.

>> I think that that's true. I should mention uh that Rich Dolan wrote a wonderful book um about uh UFOs called the national UFOs in the National Security State by Richard Dolan >> who was a historian and this is a uh big fat book full of data by an American historian who wasn't actually interested in UFOs but in his research about um the Vietnam more he came across more and more data as a historian. So finally he was convinced of two things that first of all something like UFOs exist and second of all the US government is lying about them. So that was the basis of his UFO and the national security state which is a 500page absolutely fascinating book that's in print now. I could certainly recommend that as one of the more sensible things written about UFOs >> from somebody who's who's not a UFO buff. He's a uh serious historian interested in trying to tell the truth. So, this is a book by Richard Dolan.

>> All right. Um >> on UFOs, which is uh an area that I'm not involved in, but I thought that his book was very compelling.

>> Well, I appreciate the reference. Now, um do you think as a final question before we go to the phones, a lot of people want to ask you questions and I want to let them uh but um is there any relationship to what my audience might uh think of as religious? Is there any aspect to remote viewing that touches or understands religion uh or the concept of God? I think that psychic abilities are not sacred which is the way I understand your questions. I don't think that you get psychic abilities uh from a divine source. I think psychic abilities are just abilities. Now if you believe that you're a divine being then vision is sacred and hearing is sacred >> then yes >> then then it would be >> but I think that as just in the sense that people don't believe in ESP or don't believe in remote viewing it's an experience I think that the quiet mind also has an experience of the divine or an experience of God or an experience of something beyond themselves. The Buddhists are of course highly spiritual people. They just don't happen to believe in a creator. What they believe in is a non-local mind and the carrying out of a compassionate life. And the fact that your awareness transcends space and time and that when you give up when you give up your conditioning and begin to experience spaciousness then you will have an insight as to who you are. It's not a belief. It says sit down be quiet and you'll be surprised at what you experience.

>> Now that spaciousness is related to remote viewing. It's sort of a long answer to your question. But as you sit down quietly and you have the opportunity to expand your awareness, transcending space and time, you get an idea that who you are is this non-local awareness. That is it becomes silly to think that you're a body. Who you cuz what your experience is is that your non-local awareness residing for a time as a body.

>> Does that make sense? >> Yes. Uh but many >> that's really the the religious concominant doesn't >> many many religious people uh would say what you're doing Russell is wrong and what you're doing is exposing yourself uh like transcendental meditation and it's not all that different. It's the quieting of the mind and you're exposing yourself to evil to the possibility or even probability of evil. That's what they say, Russell.

>> I think what you're exposing yourself to is reality. You're getting a indication of the nature of the spaceime in which we live. I I think that people can do evil things. I don't think my opinion is that there isn't evil per se. There's any more than there's cold per se. You have energy in the absence of energy. [clears throat] you have light and the absence of light. So I don't believe that that there is darkness. There's simply the absence of light. So I think that evil is the absence of good in that sense. So people can do things that are not good or things that are hurtful, things that we call evil. But I don't think that there are sinister forces of foot um that have anything to do with psychic abilities. Psychic >> Psychic abilities are basically good. They give people the ability to experience who they really are.

>> Yes. Basically, you're answering like u most of the scientists that I've interviewed are would have answered. Uh first time caller line, you're on the air with Russell Tar. Good morning.

>> Hello. >> Yes. Uh I had a question about his uh remote viewing and uh does he besides the Buddhist uh way that he seems to uh professes uh the main way of uh achieving remote viewing does he have uh any knowledge of other people uh I guess being involved in ancient rights or modern day I guess chemical alter alterations psychedelics to achieve the state of uh remote viewing.

>> Huh. Um, all right. All right. Actually, >> I understand the question. >> Very valid. >> Uh, first of all, I'm not a Buddhist scholar.

>> Um, what I what I know is that the ancient Hindus poti, for example, 2400 years ago talked about quieting your mind, looking into the distance, looking into the future, healing the sick, diagnosing illnesses. And he was a Hindu. He was not a Buddhist. But every mystical a mystical persuasion is like the Hindus or the Buddhists, the coalistic Jews or the Gnostic Christians all talk of are all mystics that they talk about experience rather than a belief system. All the people who have have a practice that begins with sit down and quiet your mind will lead you into the non-local realms. Now with regard to psychedelics, uh, everyone would like to believe that you get the right drug, it'll make you psychic. Uh, unfortunat weak to non-existence that the psychedelics actually make you psychic. What the psychedelics often do is create so much noise in your mental space that you can't separate the signal from the noise. It's a big disappointment cuz you feel very psychic. You feel that you've expanded your awareness into a new realm.

>> Oh yes. >> But uh but it's not a realm that gives you any information about our reality. Huh. Uh well, lots of people while taking psychedelics think they've, you know, uncovered this the center secret of the universe, the um equation as long as your thumb. Uh but dog gone it when they come down. It just didn't work out.

>> That's right. >> But it seemed that way. >> Yes, indeed.

>> Uh Wildcard Line, you're on the air with Russell Tar. Good morning.

>> Hello, Art. Hello, Russell. >> Hi. >> Um the question I have is actually two. Do you know of anyone in the Salt Lake City area that teaches remote viewing? And have you ever tried to remote view like Alien Species or Bigfoot? And I'll take my answer on the air.

>> All right, Well, have you ever remote viewed? I I guess let's just throw it all in. >> To find a remote viewing teacher, I would go to the website for the International Remote Viewing Association, which would be irva.org, or and you'll find some people there who teach remote viewing. Uh, which is not me in general. Uh, I've done occasional workshops, but I'm not an active remote viewing teacher.

>> But you've looked over what they do and you you would recommend it. >> That's right. Paul Smith is a very is one of them is very experienced remote viewing teacher. Uh, Lynn Buchanan is another one. They're both out of both out of the army.

>> Sure. >> And very experienced. Know what they're doing. Uh with regard to uh aliens, uh Ingo Swan again in his penetration talks about UFOs. Um I I would say that the that the alien scene is really not related to our psychic ability to our psychic abilities.

>> I I think that's a a different realm. >> Okay. Not related to but not certainly your psychic abilities are not prohibited at looking at that subject.

>> Well, no certainly not. That is uh part of the evidence that we are not a purely material entity is the fact that uh there is data for the survival of bodily death. FW Meyers great book on human personality talks about his experiences uh with mediums getting very very good information about people who have died and Ian Stevenson has similar experience about children who remember past lives. So the evidence that some aspect of our awareness survives is quite good.

>> Um, is that a subject, Russell, that you've targeted yourself or had others target?

>> Well, I've had experience, uh, direct experience with deceased people. I even had, uh, so-called phone call from the dead that, uh, is often written about where, uh, someone passed away and I got a phone call from that person, um, a few weeks later. This was very shocking, mysterious. So I think that uh we do have highquality experiences from deceased people that are certainly quite unexplainable.

>> Well, I've been interviewing a series of people who have been doing and I believe they're absolutely honest about it too. Russell, by the way, for what it's worth, um these EVPs, these electronic voice phenomena so-called things. Yeah, >> Russell, I've looked at the Six Ways from Sunday and I don't see any real holes in it. It seems real to me and that would also suggest some form of an afterlife. Not always such a comfortable one if you listen to what's said, but definitely some sort of continuation of something. It seems real.

>> I'm familiar with the electronic voice data. It's been going on now for about 20 years. And I'm sorry to say that I I'm like Alice in Wonderland, though I can only believe in one or two impossible things at a time. So I've really not uh gone into the EVP, although I'm aware uh that there's an upsurge in that.

>> Yes. >> Uh there's also been problems in in the area that is uh so people have gotten into trouble. has been uh be before you swallow the whole pill, I would investigate it.

>> Sure. Um I'm with you there. But it it does it does seem awfully convincing when you listen to um a cut after cut after cut and you believe these people are honest. Uh to hear some of the things that are said, I think you would find very shocking. And frankly, you know, that's you're also suggesting to me that um through remote viewing or through psychic ability, whichever way you want to look at it, there is proof of of of a continuation. Right.

>> I think that Ian Stevenson's work is the very best with young children who give very detailed descriptions of previous lives and how they died and sometimes even the murderer can be found.

>> That's right. contemporary time they describe where the money is hidden of their previous lives. They can play an instrument that they played in a previous life.

>> Yes, >> the great body of Stevenson's work uh is quite convincing that that some aspect does persevere.

>> Well, it certainly would be a [snorts] good subject, but you're not uh again, you're not so much remote viewing anymore. I mean, you're sort of a a a father along with Ingo. I mean, you're right there at the >> Well, I'm very interested in using remote viewing in the stock market as a vehicle for convincing the world that this is real. I think that people understand money. See, I've published papers in nature and the proceedings of the engineering society and it really doesn't make any difference. What people get excited about, the reason that NOVA did a story about us is that we made money in the silver market. So we are reinvestigating using psychic abilities in the market as a vehicle for demonstrating the reality of this.

>> And if you succeed beyond your wildest dreams and you were to suddenly prove to the world that it's absolutely real, what do you think would happen?

>> Well, I'm basically uh like the elephant's child. I'm insatiably curious. I think what will happen is it will discover that modern physics is significantly incomplete. It's not wrong. It does a very good job of what it does. But there's a whole new world of non-local reality that's not being explored by physics. That is to say, we misunderstand the nature of the world that we live in.

>> Would we have, if you succeeded, a better world? can't help it be a better world because we will understand uh more about it. Perhaps we'll have more energy.

>> Understanding is power. All right, Russell, hold on. Bottom of the hour from the high desert, the green high desert in the middle of the night. This is coast to coast. It's very interesting actually. Russell Tar describes remote viewing exactly as I would imagine it to be. Not connected with God, not not connected with God. Something that we've always had, something that doesn't have a real line or an ethical barrier as so many people suggest except that the process of quieting your mind perhaps make you makes you a more introspective person. But other than that, it's just an ability could be used for good, could be used for bad, isn't uh under the control of God or the devil of any or anybody else, but just is. And that'll probably be the best way, you know, to sell it to the other scientists. Uh Russell, uh welcome back.

>> I'm happy to be here. Margaret me uh described psychic ability as something that every society knows exists except in the western world. She wrote the introduction to mind reach. She was a very nice uh introduction for the field and in the introduction she said that in her investigations all over the world psychic abilities play a part in every culture except the industrialized west and it's obvious that it should be investigated and she was very helpful in getting the parasychology association into the American association for the advancement of science. So Margaret me was a great ally and we discuss the importance of psychic abilities and how to do it in our book Mind Reach which we've brought back. Mind Reach was the very first book ever published on remote viewing.

>> So we republished it.

>> Yeah. It's back on Amazon.com uh where it was 150 bucks you said people were paying for it and now all of a sudden it's out again. It had been a collector's item.

>> Available now at a much what what is the price? >> Price is $12 on Amazon.

>> Oo, that's pretty reasonable. >> Is that a bargain? >> Yes. Yes. Definitely a bargain.

>> So, um, tell people the title one more time. They're want going to want to go get it, I guess.

>> Because mind reach scientists look at psychic abilities and it's available on Amazon for the first time now in many years. was the first hell pod off and I wrote the book Mind Reach in the middle of the classified programs. We had all kinds of trouble getting it through uh CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency. But this was our view of what was going on, how you can use psychic abilities to look into the distance, look into the future, heal the sick, and diagnose illnesses. And it's worth saying before we go on uh that probably the easiest of all psychic abilities is diagnosing illnesses of distant people. The intuitive diagnosis is uh a place that many people get started in psychic research.

>> All right. Do you often run into people like me? And when I say that I'm saying >> no you're one of a kind. I never run into people like you. I'm what I'm saying is I don't know if I want to know the future. I don't know. I really don't know. I'm not so sure I want to know the future. Now, there have got to be other people like me.

>> Well, when we first >> I'm not helping your effort here. I'm sorry, but I >> That's all right. When we were first doing research, uh Hannah and I are both physicists and we were not brought up to be psychic spies. But what we felt is that we're basically in favor of intelligence rather than ignorance, which is how we got working for the CIA. We thought that the information we could bring forward would be helpful. And although the CIA was not our favorite customer, we felt it was worthwhile and helpful to the country to provide information that could prevent the Cold War becoming a hot war. So with regard to knowing the future or remaining ignorant >> in general, I'm a unreconstructed scientist. If there's something to know, I would rather know it.

>> Well, I'm fairly blissful anyway. Um, uh, Wild Card Line, you're on the air with Russell Hello.

>> Hello. >> Yes. Hello. >> Hi. Um, good morning both of you guys. >> Good morning. >> I you mentioned earlier about transcendental meditation. I was wondering if you could explain a little bit what that what that is. All right.

>> Also give a brief description of of how you do remote viewing.

>> All right. Uh, sure. Transcendental meditation. A quick definition. Well, transcendental meditation is a meditation has been thought taught for thousands of years as a way of quieting your mind and stopping the ongoing chatter. Transcendental meditation was brought to the west by uh Maharishi Mahash Yogi whose name I don't have exactly correct the Maharishi let's say and his organization the TM organization uh and a teacher will give you a mantra a a word group a Sanskrit group of words to say as a way of repetitiously doing something to fill the space as you quiet your mind. So this uh meditation with a mantra is one of many many types of meditation. The one that the TM organization has been using and the goal is to stop the chatter and have an opportunity to discover uh other aspects of yourself.

>> Is there any way on the radio you can instruct people quickly on how to remote view? It's not that easy, is it?

>> Well, it's uh it's it's a hard thing to do. Uh it's requires again quieting your mind and becoming in touch with the first images that appear. Now, I'd again encourage people uh to buy Mind Reach where we talk about how to do remote viewing. We show what help uh what Pat Price and Helah Hammet did. Mind Reach is a good place to start doing remote viewing. And my la that's my first book, of course, the last one, Limitless Mind, gives step-by-step instructions on how to do remote viewing. So, I'm shamelessly giving a plug for both books, but the answer to your caller's question is you have [clears throat] to find a friend, have the friend put an object in a bag for you, and then [clears throat] look for surprising elements that come into your awareness.

>> Well, that's a pretty simple experiment, isn't it? >> And in Limitless Mind, we tell exactly what we did at the SRRI in our uh decadel long program. Have a friend. Have a bag. Put an object in. Quiet your mind. First thing that comes to it. See if you're right. Pretty easy. East of the Rockies, you're on the air.

>> You do need a friend to get started. >> A friend? Yes. Russell Tar is uh my guest. And you're on the air. Hi.

>> Good evening. Art. I can't hear the show while we're on hold tonight, unfortunately. Sorry I hadn't turned my radio down.

>> You're not hearing it on hold? >> No. >> The hell's the matter with this machine? Well, you're you're you're I'm sure you'll figure out engineer. I promise you we'll look into it. All right.

>> Hey, uh Russell, thanks. Oh, thanks for taking my call. Great to be on the show. Thank you. Great to hear you guys. Um I have uh two questions that are very much interrelated and I'll ask them and I'll get off and uh listen on the air. They are and they might be the same question. In fact, what hap can't you look forward and find out if there's a point when remote viewing is known by is a practice of most of the people and what happens when remote viewing views itself. I'll take your here. Thanks.

>> Okay. >> Well, that's a very interesting question. As I understand the question is when will people finally understand uh that who they are is non-local awareness that their ability fills space time and they can do remote viewing. When will that occur? Now remote viewing is good for a lot of things. This would be an example of a hard question to answer because the answer is a number. that is what you would like to do in a certain sense is find a way to tell when in the future uh people do accept remote viewing and the answer to that is December 4th 2008 but psychic ability generally doesn't come up with that kind of analytical information so it's a um I'd have to think about how to find a tricky way of doing that in using remote viewing to forecast the stock market. What you do is what's called associative remote viewing where you associate one object with the market going up and another object with the market going down >> and then you ask a viewer to describe what will we show you next Friday and if he describes the light bulb which is the up object perhaps then you'll buy silver. If he describes the tuna fish sandwich, which is a down object, then you'll sell silver. So, you have an association between randomly chosen objects and market move.

>> I'd like to know who chose the tuna fish sandwich is the downside.

>> Well, after 5 days, that'll be pretty much of a downer >> when you get your feedback. >> That's right. All right. West of the Rockies, you're on the air with Russell Tar. Hello.

>> Hello. >> Hello. Hello. Uh yeah, I was uh listening to your show. I haven't caught I [snorts] haven't been listening for more than just a few months. I think it's very fascinating.

>> Thank you. >> But um you were talking before uh uh and my question uh for uh your guest was uh there's even even you yourself had said something to the effect because of the aven flu uh there was a you had a bad feeling about it.

>> Yes, sir. and things. Uh I hear other people sometimes talk about how they have a bad feeling about the future. Some people even say we're headed toward, you know, global disaster or world's end or whatever.

>> Many say that. Yes. >> And and my question to to your guest is do you can you use remote viewing in a very general sense to look at how the world is going to uh go? Are we headed for that kind of a disaster? And what does it mean when these people are all saying or many of them are saying pretty much the same thing that uh there are things coming the the the aven flu the the the global warming the >> uh and so forth this is one yes it's already here this is one let's concentrate for a change on one specific thing >> I I said this in the first hour Russell and I really believe this I've been watching these Stories come to me every week about the aven flu and scientists are virtually predicting that it's going to jump species, become transmissible between humans. It's been creeping me out. I've got a really bad feeling about this aven flu thing. And that's all I'm, you know, I'm not psychic or or it if I am, it's it's new to me. But usually when I get really bad feelings about something, there's there's a good cause for it. Is that kind of remote viewing or is that just intuition?

>> Describing as analysis, what a person could do is look a year in the future and see do you see a lot of people dying? Do you see a lot of people in the hospital?

>> Right. >> Uh I from what I read that there'll probably be a vaccine for aven flu before it becomes an epidemic. I hope >> that's my understanding. It's certainly the problem, but I think that competent people are working on it. The thing that you can do most readily uh rather than looking at the distant future is try and use this in your own lives to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow or next week. Yeah. because then you get feedback and you rather than uh forecasting distant calamities uh discovering who you are in your own nature is something that's a much better application for psychic abilities in my opinion.

>> Well, speaking of people who forecast future calamities, we've got Ed Dames. Now, he seems centered on forecasting future calamities. Any comments?

>> Well, Ed is a very experienced teacher. I [clears throat] take some exception. He has been saying for many years that his forecasting is 100% correct.

>> Well, qualifier. He said that uh when he's got a team together, a certain team, then it it can approach 100%. It can be 100% correct. He said that, but only with respect to a team. But I don't know of he's on his show. Now I beg you on your show he's made numerous forecasts which have not come correct. Again and again he's forecast all kinds of calamities >> that haven't happened >> that haven't happened >> yet. So yet so that is I'm a scientist. I I publish papers. If people don't like what I say they can say that I'm mistaken. Uh I'll lose my funding. That hasn't happened. I've published many papers, uh, lots of books telling people how to do remote viewing, and there's now 300,000 people doing remote viewing. To the best of my knowledge, Ed Danes has never published a thing, and all the forecasts I've heard from him have been wrong. Uh, I do know some of his students who are good remote viewers. So, I have to say that he is an accomplished remote viewing teacher, but with regard to his organization making forecasts, I simply don't know of any correct forecasts you've made. And I've heard quite a number of erroneous forecasts.

>> Huh. Well, based on some of what you said tonight, I bet you were particularly raising an eyebrow when he remoteviewed Lucifer.

>> That's right. And there he had a lot of incorrect things to say about uh Chandra Levy and about the North Koreans.

>> Well, >> come to mind.

>> Yeah. Well, I don't know about this North Korean thing. That's a little worrisome. I mean, um his forecast was that there would be a a detonation of a nuclear weapon on the Korean peninsula. And I'm I'm looking Well, I I it's looking pretty probable actually. I would say >> you don't have to be psychic to uh if if you ask uh Joe on the corner, do you think that the Koreans are going to test an atomic bomb pretty soon?

>> Well, today that yes, but he you know that forecast is is quite quite old. Um >> anyway, let's >> international line.

>> Yes, >> you're on the air with Russell Tar.

>> Hi there. I also can't hear the show on the radio.

>> I'll take care of that. I'll bash this thing until it works.

>> Okay. Yeah. Another um viewer guest of yours um a while back stated that the reason why they cancelled um the program was that um some people in government um were worried um about being psychically spied on and having some of their secrets revealed. Um so they kind of put a squash on it. I think the program was cancelled in '95 simply because um the CIA got tired of taking heat and having people tease them about supporting psychics. That is we were providing good information that the best evidence for psychic functioning in a certain sense is that we had um more than $20 million worth of financial support. The program went on for more than 20 years simply doing remote viewing for the intelligence community. If we were not doing good work, we wouldn't get 20 years of funding. In my experience as a laser physicist, it's extremely unusual to get funding for three years, let alone 23 years. So the fact that we had continuous funding from the same group of agencies for 23 years is extremely strong evidence that we were providing worthwhile information. Since they were all the agencies were taking heat from Congress and from other agencies for supporting us and they supported us anyway, we obviously must have been providing them with some reason to do that.

>> Right. Right. But the thing that does not make sense now, Russell, is that if it really worked, we're in such dangerous times now that ridicule, laughing, embarrassment, all of that isn't enough to keep somebody who who knows it really works from getting you back into government and some agency real quick.

>> Maybe there's a secret program in the basement of the Pentagon that we don't know about.

>> Well, that I've speculated about, too. Uh it has been a pleasure having you on the air and give out your website one more time or your >> My website is espressarch.com and the book we're talking about is Mind Reach: Scientists Look at Psychic Abilities.

>> All right, my friend. Thank you for being here. >> It's always a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you. >> Good night, Russell. And everybody else, don't forget this coming Thursday, ABC 8 to 10 7 central, Peter Jennings reports on UFOs. Don't miss it. From the high desert, the soggy high desert. Good night. Here is Crystal. Always just the right words to leave by. Good night.