Transcription
Guys, hello everyone. How do you like the idea of watching and listening to a person who built sales departments at Business Molodost, at Gitbrans, which is part of Skillbox and DublGis, and achieved awesome results everywhere? Here. So, these are not people who are currently running around saying, "We will build it for you." But someone who actually built it. We are recording this greeting at the end, after we have already recorded the podcast. And I really regret that I couldn't just take notes. I have a lot of insights. We discussed how to hire people, what kind of people to hire, how to work with them, how to collect analytics every day, and everything else. In general, I have a lot of insights. Today we have such a guest, Vasily Rzhaka. Vasily, hello. I am very glad that we are recording this cool podcast together. Radik, hello. Thank you for inviting me. It is a great honor to be at your studio, to share with the guys, with your audience, with your subscribers. It's about a very important and relevant topic today, because indeed, as you correctly say, I have over 15 years of management experience, my personal experience in sales and in absolutely large companies. And for the last 2 years, it has expanded exponentially, because for the last 2 years, I have been in a consulting company with my directors, and I have seen over 100 different companies, what is actually happening in the market. And today we live in such an interesting time of turbulence, restructuring. Some call it a crisis. I have gone through four major crises, exiting cash flow gaps of minus 70 million. I know what to do. I understand how important sales are today. And that's what we'll talk about today. We will explain step by step what to do and how to do it. Therefore, be sure to watch until the end, grab your notebooks, and believe me, you will leave not only with insights but also with concrete actions. Wow, see the energy. Let's go. How to break through 500 million with Pavel Volya with Ivan Urgant? Yes, damn it, what's happening? Did we break even or not? We broke even. We launched a new trend. You can sit like this, smoke, and choose. You know, I'm sweating. Come on. As it should be. You're late. Bring a basket of fruit. 2 months of training. Anyway, tra-ta-tap. Someone is sitting in Zoom and drinking tea at your meetings. What, my friend, did you come to a performance or something? Unpack the box. I didn't fire them. Why fire them? Employees don't care about you. How to understand that the sales department is not working? And they run around in their underwear in the kitchens, not sleeping, having breakfast from a plate. You entered the business with a turnover of a billion rubles. Business Molodost, Skillbox, DublGis. What is their phenomenon? What did they do right? Well, I'll say this, there are three things that allow you to make billions. First is the product, right? So we create a quality product. Second is the team. And third is the commercial block. So, to grow, you need to pay special attention to the commercial block. This is marketing and sales. Uh-huh. So, in all the companies you listed, like GeekBrains, it's the Skillbox Holding, Business Molodost, and I started my journey at 2GIS, right? All these three elements were there. I was responsible for the commercial block in each company. Behind me, we have taken figures exceeding 1 billion turnover per year four times. Four times in two companies, both BeMi and Brains, due to this commercial, marketing, and sales connection. I have separate topics where I analyze why it is important to cross-link and build work so that there is product, marketing, and sales in one connection. I firmly believe that it is impossible to achieve large figures, like a billion, and generally, to grow into a large company, if we do not connect these areas. Because, what often happens in the market is that marketing fights with sales, sales with marketing, and product is completely forgotten. Uh-huh. Well, like, it somehow lives on its own. And this is the first mistake that owners or managers, CEOs, who are above this, make. Uh-huh. Therefore, I am always a fan, you know, of those who first come and say, "If you want to grow, start connecting these three areas." Uh-huh. And this triangle will allow you to achieve this scale. And today, it's just X5 exponentially to what needs to be done, otherwise you will fall apart, you simply won't hold on. This allowed us to achieve, well, of course, the management system, and, well, I think we'll talk about that later. What does it mean to connect marketing and sales? In my understanding, my sales department and marketing are somehow connected, but I understand that they also fight among themselves. So, what does it mean for you to connect these? In each department, there is a key responsible link. The manager. Uh-huh. Well, or the senior person in charge of it. It all depends on the company, on its size. So, seniors in one department, managers in another and in a third. As an owner, if I don't have an executive director, I must connect them through plans, motivation, communication, and not allow, pay attention, not allow them to blame each other, to say that you did something wrong, that your leads are bad, and your conversion is poor. Only constructive feedback. There can be emotions, there can be, yes, something, but you must break down the constructive feedback and clearly show where it fails, why it's unqualified, why. Look, this is how I did it. I would tell marketing, "Listen to the calls and give feedback to the manager." Sales managers, you can look at the channels and give marketing a breakdown of where unqualified leads are coming from. Directly from VK, or from contextual advertising, or from some specific advertising campaign. You can look at what banners are being placed, because often it's like "come get it for free." Leads come for free, and then they say, "Why aren't they buying?" So, it all depends even at this level, what offer we give them externally. And so, each manager can delve into it, look, and give feedback. And that's normal. What do I do next? I ask marketing managers to attend sales department meetings once a month. Ideally, every week, when you have a reporting meeting for the past week and a plan. Why? So that the managers, the manager, see that there is a living person who can make mistakes, that he is responsible for it. Marketing sees what is happening in the sales department and how it is set up, what they discuss in communication. So, this is attendance. Second, there must be one or two mandatory meetings of these managers, where I, as a leader, or owner, or executive director, go through the reports. Well, like, and the key question there is, what will we do to improve, or to catch up on the lag, or to strengthen further. What is missing? The second question. So that we can generate a certain number of leads or where we can warm them up, or from the sales side, how we can further strengthen your offer, what other commercial presentations we can make. So, I moderate this between, respectively, these managers of departments, and of course, I do not allow any of these statements. I just shut them down. So, I have extensive experience in this at Gen, and Business Molodost, and, well, I have had this topic for over 10 years because I realized that this is the key. You cannot say that leads are crap. Leads are not of good quality, because. Uh-huh. Here's the breakdown. 10 leads came in, and eight couldn't be reached, two are just kids whom we cannot sell to, or some foreigners are coming in. You provide constructive feedback. If you claim something, you provide constructive feedback, because what often happens? If the manager transmits that the leads are crap, the sales managers pick it up, and immediately shift responsibility from themselves. That's it, you know, and you, and there might be normal leads. So, out of twenty, ten, well, something actually hit, and ten, well, and you blew them, because you already hold in your head as a manager that, okay, they're bringing us some junk. And a third important component is motivational. I link them in motivation directly, because often, what happens is that marketing is set a KPI for the number of applications, like, here's your bonus or salary. And I say, let's tie it to money. Uh-huh. So that they think about money, so that they calculate. So, CAC is very popular, right? So, the cost of advertising, but also to money, I say, let's tie it to turnover, to revenue, so that when I come, marketing is interested in the conversion being maintained. And I monitor my target leads, so that I am not just interested in bringing a quantity, but a quantity of target leads. So, I need to qualify, having coordinated with the sales department, what and whom we consider, specifically, a qualified lead. And these three components, without going into details, already allow us to glue this triangle together. It's the same with the product. Awesome, you know? And today, why is the product important? Because, like, I see many, yes, owners, like, we have a product, it costs 150,000. Uh-huh. My friend, look at the market, what's happening. 150 is expensive for you now. Just yesterday, I was analyzing at a masterclass, the owner says, "We carry the most expensive dental instruments, and now, well, let's say, our cost is 10, even 50 times higher than the Russian analog. And we've started to feel a decline." I say, "So, you've hit a wall. What was true 2 years or a year ago is different now. People have started to calculate differently and are very attentive." So, quality unfortunately goes to the background, even in dentistry or in some other things, because, well, you need to survive this decline, survive a certain crisis, and everyone has frozen. So, again, the money is there. The question is, where do I direct it and where will I spend it, and where can I save, I save. That's the principle. Uh-huh. Therefore, it is important to look for other solutions with the product. Somewhere in price, somewhere to find other suppliers, to find alternatives. Therefore, the product must be in very close connection with marketing and sales. Don't skip this part, I'll tell you something interesting now. So that you can attract more clients to messengers and increase sales by at least 30%, we have prepared a free mini-course. In the first lesson, I will tell you how to effectively attract leads to messengers using paid and free channels, as well as online and offline methods. In the second lesson, I will show you how to protect your client base, avoid number blocking, and not lose contact with clients. In the third lesson, we will learn how to monetize your base, work with it, and even revive inactive clients. Go to the link in the description. And now, let's get back to watching. Look, I have a pain point that I also realized through communication, including with you, with other guys, is that my product doesn't communicate with the managers on the ground. That is, my product communicates with the head of the sales department, with the head of the marketing department, and they live in some kind of their own managerial world, in a world of pink ponies, and everything is clear between them. And I started communicating with specific sales managers, with the guys from technical support, for example. And I hear that they have a lot of complaints about the product, and it turns out that the manager acts as a filter, you know, he cuts off these complaints, works through objections, right? Yes. He worked through the objection, something. Even if he accepted something, he filtered it through his own filters and conveyed a completely different story to the product manager. And so, I forbade communication about the product with the managers. I said, "Now you communicate with the managers on the ground every week and collect feedback." And for the third week, the product manager comes with this kind of head, with his hair standing on end. He says, "Yes, damn it, what's happening at all?" I'll tell you something scary. Managers are the best testers of the product and all the loopholes in the company. That is, these are the people you should listen to first. And they are at the interface with the client. They hear all the objections from the client. If you learn to filter where the manager is just shifting responsibility and where he is speaking the truth, I always create that atmosphere for that. So, there is regular training, like twice a week. Of these, once it's either product, or the owner or CEO comes once a month. I involved them so that they understand, managers need to understand where we are going. Uh-huh. In situations of turbulence. This requires special attention, because what happens to employees? They start to overthink what is happening. Something goes wrong, some failure, they don't meet the plan, everything, we are collapsing, a crisis, and they start to get worked up. Therefore, you need to communicate with sales managers not only through the head of sales, but the head of sales should organize meetings with other departments, especially with product, and do it. I call this round tables, or brainstorming sessions, where you can communicate and not be afraid to say that, here, here, I would improve. So, to throw in ideas, and then filter them. So, I have such a tool in my training system – it's brainstorming. I believe that a brainstorming session should happen at least once a month. You can invite marketing to the brainstorming session, you can invite product, but specifically among managers. What is its advantage? It's that when a manager is involved, I set a task: "Guys, how to make 10 million? We can't break the barrier, or you're not meeting the plan, how to collect another 5 million?" And we only think about that. And everyone throws in ideas. And in the end, we come up with three to five key tasks with responsibility, a responsible manager for the task. So, he might not be the executor, but the responsible person. What's the trick of this tool? That responsibility is not only on the company owner, but the employee takes responsibility, because he just brainstormed, suggested, and now he is responsible for doing it. So, we need to involve our team. What happens when we don't involve them? We do this, we do that, and they understand that this is not working or they don't want to. So, you always need to involve the team. This is brainstorming. Second, every 3 months, I believe that you should always allocate at least half a day, preferably a full day, to gather different departments and organize. We had a great practice at GeekBrains. Every 3 months, we went out with the managers, and then I started doing the same with my employees. So, even the finance people went out and set goals. We went out once, and our goal was, so you understand, to make 500 million per month. How to break through 500 million? That was the task. We were doing 300, so you understand. Finance people, lawyers, well, basically everyone, over 20 people. Well, it's a large company, about 600 people, but key people, absolutely different. And everyone answered one question. And everyone proposed hypotheses from their side. And the main thing is that from this meeting, from this brainstorming session, from this kind of micro-strategic session, in the format of a brainstorming session, everyone left with one task. Uh-huh. A new hypothesis, a responsible person. For example, I left with the task of making sure we break the barrier, we sold through webinars, found that window, so that there were 10,000 people on the webinar in live broadcast. That was my task, and I, so, this relates to marketing. Uh-huh. But everyone left with a related task. Someone left to calculate how to hire employees correctly or what adaptation system to use. Someone left to recalculate some model. Someone else left to launch some new funnel. Everyone who was on the trip had one task. Did you see it or not, we had such an event. Path to IT with a star, no. With Pavel Volya. So, I was actually responsible, I acted as a presenter. There were a thousand participants on the webinar. A thousand, and we needed to do 10, to do x10. Damn it. X10. Well, that means expanding the funnel. And that's when the thought came to me, like, we need a star. Well, to attract someone, to attract this audience, we were the first to launch in 2000, I think, 2022, I won't say now, yes, in 2022, I think, we launched the first one, who actually did an event with a star in IT, in IT tech. We found contacts with Pavel Volya, and we did the first "Path to IT" with Pavel Volya. So, that's the connection, you know, 50,000 registrations we collected, 50,000, the maximum before that was 6-7,000. And at our first event, there were 6,000 people in live broadcast. So, we grew by X6. Three months later, we repeated it with Ivan Urgant and broke the 10,000 barrier. Incredible. Did we break even or not? We broke even. Did we create something? Wow, we created an effect. I'm remembering it now, goosebumps, you know, because, well, it's the whole team, you should have seen what was happening. The whole team united around this event. It was a common victory. And it was still May. We were still in May. So, that is, I agreed at the end of April, and in May, we needed to gather. Our event was on May 19th or 20th, I don't remember, it lasted 4 hours. Simply brilliant, with the right humor, our two general directors, they are also developers, hosted this event with Volya, then with Urgant as well, and then Skillbox repeated it with Slepakov. Who else did they have? Nagiyev. In short, we launched trends, a wave. Then we had another hero, but for certain reasons it was canceled, a girl, I won't name her. Well, it was canceled because we are in the VK holding, there are some issues, but the point is that we launched a new trend and collected a base on it for another six months. With Urgant, we collected 70,000 registrations, and 10,000 people watched live on the IT market. It was just a breakthrough and finding hypotheses. What did I start with? With the fact that we went out with the team once again for the quarter on such a trip. It's very cool to recharge. So, 500, yes, we didn't break through, but we grew, you understand, we broke through other tasks, and every manager reports on this task every week and tracks and leads it. This is such a tool that anyone at any level of the company can take, even if you have five people. Because you involve the team, and you don't try to solve it with one head. You can never solve it with one head. You just need to understand that. Uh-huh. And this event also allows you to kill two birds with one stone. This is team building and creating tasks for the next quarter, so that the person who created them fulfills them. Uh-huh. And also, look, before it was fashionable to plan for a year, to go with a yearly strategy. What's happening with that today? Due to the fluctuations, it's simply an outdated tool. And therefore, I see that it is a super-working tool now, if you hold such an event once a quarter and create such a micro-strategy for 3 months. I've even added training for heads of sales and owners from my training, so that after the training, they defend a sales department development strategy for 3 months to the owner. So, this has become a highlight, because you get the tools, you test them. And you need to consolidate, what will you do next? Uh-huh. Because, you know, like after every training, you leave in euphoria, then you forget everything. Yes. Those who consolidate these tools within 3 months, they will live in the sales department. How did I find out about this? I just started asking all the graduates, communicating with them, and realized that, oh, cool, this one took this, this one took that, this one took that, and now I need to organize it and make sure they leave with it. I just strengthened it. And now it works like this. I have a Telegram channel, and Vasily and I will record exclusive content specifically for it. The link to it will be in the description. Therefore, go, watch, subscribe to the channel, there is a lot of useful information there. My question for Vasily is: why do nine out of ten managers lie to the owner, and he doesn't even realize it? How to understand that the sales department is not working? It seems like they are calling, texting, attending meetings, learning something, but there's no result. What's my first criterion? What? I go in, ask the question: "Do you have any standards for calls, for manager activity?" B, is there reporting? Do managers have a daily plan-fact, or not, do they report? And third, respectively, what figures does the head of sales monitor daily, and what figures does the manager take into work daily? Figures, for example, for revenue, for the number of calls, so some standards. Look, the first thing that indicates it's not working is if there are no standards. I say, it means your managers make less than ten successful calls a day. Uh-huh. What does that mean? It means they talk with clients with their own mouths until one o'clock at the maximum. So, with a hundred percent conversion. All those who have no standards, a hundred percent conversion, means less than ten calls. In all my companies, there have never been less than thirty successful calls of at least one minute. Because I generally believe that this is the key indicator for which you should hold the sales department accountable, because it's a funnel. Before, it was calls, and now I mix everything. Calls, messages. Calls are easier to track. Messages are more difficult, but they can also be included in the report, right? But today, I say, if there are messages, you have a mixed format, but then you should make at least 20 successful calls. Minimum. If you don't make any, start with ten. I say, it will be better. Yes, I joined GeekBrains in 2021, which we have already mentioned. What do you think, were there any standards there? No. Seriously? No. Honestly, for the first time, I was like, "No way." Because when there is excess fat and you get hot leads, you can sit like this, smoke, and choose, you know? You choose, right? But everything is exposed when there is a deficit. And we constantly, well, I never had, so you understand, at DAgis, I worked by cold calling, we looked for clients ourselves, as many as you could find. So, no one gave us databases. We had no marketing at all at that period, in those years, there was no marketing. We were the marketing. Who looked for clients, scheduled meetings, traveled, met, and the cycle. It was cold. Today, there are no such sales. And at BM, it's the same, there were none. And for me, it was just a shock. Well, that is, I lived in that reality, I understood that, well, like, everyone does it that way, right? And here I come to one of the largest, top-five companies in the IT market. Tears in my eyes. So, what do you think, what's the first thing I did? I started teaching them to call, and I didn't fire them. Why fire them? People themselves, over six months, those who understood that they wouldn't withstand the system, dropped out. Well, the core remained. And I started implementing standards for calls. Uh-huh. Because that's the first thing you need to do to have a standard for calls. Or there is another standard, the number of clients processed within a day. What's the difference? So, successful calls of at least one minute, well, that's a criterion I've developed over the years. The number of clients processed, you can divide new ones, or just, yes, that includes messages too. That's how I started including messages. So, for example, if I have a standard of 10 calls, then for the number of clients processed, it should be x2, because you are messaging someone. And how is a message counted? You wrote, you got a reply, a dialogue started. This can be considered that you have started a dialogue with the client, you have processed him, you have taken him into work. And this is really the number one basis, which I believe every owner should know and every manager should know. Why doesn't this happen in 80% of cases? Because they start to just sell you the idea of the manager, that today they can't get through, the reachability is bad. Yes, reachability has dropped. Now it fluctuates between 20-30%. Before, it was 50%. Well, that means you make more attempts. That's why I'm not saying you need to make 30 calls. Well, make 20, any sales department is capable of making 20 calls per manager. And this standard is the basis. The second standard is the number of processed clients. The third standard is what I call the zero-point-fives. These are those to whom I made an offer. Either on a call, or sent a commercial proposal, right? So, the funnel is being built, the number of attempts to get through, made an offer, and the zero-point-nine is those to whom I issued an invoice and am waiting for payment. Uh-huh. And that's the funnel. There's no magic. Everyone.
They say: "Magic, magic." No, it's the same funnel. And they don't monitor it within a week or a month, but every day. Every day. Do you know what I found next? There are standards. I was just analyzing. There was a strategic session with one of the clients; they deal with personal bankruptcy, yes, it's a good company. That's it. I say: "Are there standards?" Yes. I say: "Great, finally I heard that there are standards. Let's see how many we have." "Fifteen," he says, "the standard. Well, there should be fifteen successful calls." "Wow," I say, "that's cool. If they're doing it, great, let's look at the actual numbers." The sales manager opens it and sees five per day. I say: "And you, you weren't monitoring this?" Damn, and then there's this knock-knock-knock-knock. I say: "Excuse me, I didn't want to peek in front of the owner." But I say: "Here's the essence." You understand? I say, if you don't monitor, imagine, they're doing half as much. And what happens? Because the manager sits, waits for hot leads, waits for new ones to come. And you're constantly chasing new ones. A new one didn't answer, a new one will think about something, but who will work with this accumulated base, who will touch this base? And that's what calls are for. You have a remote manager working for an hour, and what do they do the rest of the time? They chat. I say: "Let me see the chats. How do you control them?" Not at all. I say: "Then what should I say about them chatting?" Half the time they're dealing with their own issues. This is where another problem arises in the remote sales market. The manager, realizing that half a day is enough for them, takes on a second project. You're kidding? Well, easily. And someone can even take on a third project because you have no demand, you have no standards. How do you track remote workers? You can't. The most key indicators are how much activity they do within a day and how much money they bring in. But not everyone can bring in money every day, you agree that some have different cycles, some warm up, but we can understand every day how many clients I worked with, how many calls I made, dialogues, commercial proposals. And this funnel needs to be monitored by everyone on a daily basis. Therefore, there is such a system as daily plan vs. actual, yes, when a manager at a morning meeting says: "Today I will make this many calls, work with this many clients, generate this much revenue," and in the evening, a summary. So, this is the second thing that most companies don't do. Well, like, we do a summary once a week, I think. What do you mean, once a week? That means you've lost at least 5 days, and if something is wrong, it's hard to fix and catch up within a month. And that's why I say, the cycle when we summarize is daily, meaning you have to learn to be effective and productive within the day, every day. Then the week, and then the month. This is a three-level planning and demand that, well, I implement and recommend as one of the tools for every sales manager and owner, when the month is divided into weeks, and the week is divided into days. That is, I have to learn to win every day. Victory is small steps, this theme fits very well here in sales. The art of small steps. Well, look, how did I understand that remote work can also be effective? That is, I was an offline person until 2021. Just, you know, you pump up the office, gather everyone at the tables. My meetings, for you to understand, were held. No one could sit in the meeting. Everyone stood up. Our brain, we had 70 people in the office and in cities. Everyone stood up, came. I waited for everyone to hang up. It was a whole ritual. I see everyone. We are on the same level. Sipping tea is disrespect to you. In Zoom, someone sits and drinks tea during your meetings. What are you, my friend, came for a performance? I'm not an actor who came. This is a work meeting where I stand or sit in front of you, and I respect the space very much. Or that I see a black screen in Zoom right now. I say: "Guys, I have 100 people, no one sat with a black screen." I say: "Either leave, a black screen means you're not here." Yes, I always make a joke. I say: "What, imagine we're sitting in a room, you put on an invisibility hat, and no one sees you, and you're like at a meeting, you know, a black screen means you're not there for me." This is culture. From these little things, from this discipline, results begin. That is, from absolutely small things like lateness. I remember in the office, I didn't punish for lateness. If you're late, bring a basket of fruit, or something else. Then, well, I didn't overlook it. You're 5 minutes late. Dude, come on. Sometimes I closed the doors to the meeting, and they sat outside. You know how awkward that is later? You don't even need to fine them. Through awareness, through these tools, through not ignoring it, but focusing on it. So, the younger the leader I was initially, the more you tried to fine them with money. The more you grow and become, well, competent, the more you use different tools, you understand? That is, yes, you are wiser, you shout less, you don't lose your temper unnecessarily. And I've lived through all of this. That is, emotionally, you just unravel and so on. I even had a technique called Monday. On Monday, you needed to give an emotional shake-up so that everyone would come to their senses. I would deliberately hype myself up before the meeting and turn it on. But returning to the topic, which I mentioned about the remote sales department, in 2022, I transferred the entire sales department, which is 100 managers and 20 supervisors, to remote work. Was I scared? A little bit. We already had some staff of managers, but we acquired fewer smoking breaks, discussions. And that system of standards, constant activity, you are constantly in touch with the manager, right? And you have a morning meeting, an evening report, you conduct field training, then you have standards, you summarize the day, you see who responds quickly in the chat. That's also an indicator. We also set up in CRM that, well, like, you go for lunch, for example, you set that you are not in place, so that a request is not assigned to you. That is, you monitor through these indirect indicators and through the activity that he does. That is, if he made two calls by twelve, what are you busy with? A question. I, well, and you understood everything, returned. And the standard allows you to bring him back to work within the day. And that's it, we transitioned 100 people to super remote. No time wasted on commuting, they became effective. And how does the day begin in the sales department? It always starts with a meeting, or a huddle, as they call it. Some say: "I have experienced people, I often hear, well, I've been in sales for 2 years, what's the point? They all know why we need this? Or do we meet every other day?" Wait, guys, I say, the point isn't whether they are experienced or not. The point is that at the meeting, you need to see your team with your own eyes, that they are awake, they are running around the kitchens, in their underwear, not sleeping yet, having breakfast or coffee, you know? Everything, they are engaged. Second, there is a basic structure of the meeting, which, imagine, I've been using for 15 years. A 15-year-old tool, and it works. A 15-minute meeting. Here's a ready-made tool. A 15-minute meeting every day. Every single day. Some start 15 minutes before the start of the workday, some start exactly at the start of the workday, say at 10 o'clock, so 15 minutes. Then everyone must be, if they are remote, everyone must be in Zoom with cameras, without any delays. That is, you train them, you have 5 minutes, you summarize the previous day. Who did how much, who distinguished themselves, what were the results, who made calls. You highlight the good ones, you always highlight the growth areas. The second five minutes is a case study, or you briefly analyze a situation, or, you know, I like to prepare, some parables, some things you find, or you inject some important information in the sales topic. The third block is today we set the plan for the day, and each manager voices it with their own mouth. Not me, the supervisor, but the manager. The trick is that when I voice it in the general meeting in the morning, I take responsibility for it. And then you ask about it in the evening, or there's a similar meeting, or just in reports. And so, in the morning, in addition to what I just said, three such stages, you engage them, and they should leave motivated. That is, you motivate them. I believe that one of the most important tools for a leader is to motivate the team for victory in the morning. Imagine, many years have passed, those who worked with me in BM, where they intersect or even in 2GIS. You know what employees remember? They remember the meetings. Because for me, a meeting is like an artist going on stage and giving their all, no matter what happens, no matter what situations arise, I'm on stage, like, if something happened to me, employees don't care about you, but you have to be at the meeting, like, I can cry, but 5 minutes before the meeting, you tune in, go out and perform. Because I noticed, you know, the trick is that the result depends on this performance, on the morning. So think about it, do your leaders conduct meetings? And if it's daily, they don't need to be 30-40 minutes. Each meeting can be unique, each motivation. I say, I read some parables, I gave assignments for managers to bring some interesting sales stories, some biographies to study. That is, you need to involve them. It shouldn't be boring. If your people don't want to go to meetings, then you're doing something wrong. And if people get energized and wait for them, wait for the meetings, and from this they get this shot of energy, then believe me, the day's result depends on it. These little things, you know, everyone understands that you need to call, that you need to control the manager, that CRM is needed, everyone understands. But the devil is in the details. And you can only tell about these details if you've lived through them yourself. Because, as you say, many sales experts today talk about it, the question is what was their experience? Well, you understand that I have experience, I was a manager who sold cold. Then I came to a startup in Moscow from Siberia, from Krasnoyarsk, where I went further from a regional manager. Group leader, regional group leader, VIP group. Then I became a sales manager, commercial sales director in 3 years. Absolutely different roles. Absolutely different vision. And I became commercial. And then I went through the same thing in BM, sales manager, commercial, and only added executive to my collection. In GeekBrains, it was added, and now I have consulting, and I see, you understand, I have the language, I understand the owner's language, the manager's language, and the administrator's language. Yes, that's the uniqueness. I think I didn't pay attention to this before. Well, well, everyone understands this. And then I realized that there's a problem in the market. I've been researching one topic for a year. It's called communication between a sales manager and an owner. Because I think, why aren't companies growing, why aren't they growing? And when I started consulting, I saw different languages. The owner hires a sales manager and thinks that their work is done, because they hired a specialist who understands sales. That's it, I gave them motivation. So, I told them what to do, I'll step back. I broke a sweat. Come on. How should it be, you understand? I'm like this, you're like this. I'm like this. 99% are like this. Unfortunately, you know what happens? Because we think that or how a sales manager hires managers, they think: "Well, the more expensive I hire, the better." No, guys, today in the market, first of all, you don't hire them, you need to grow them. What is important for the owner to do? It's important to be with this sales manager for at least 3 to 6 months. That's at least two to three communication sessions of 30 to 60 minutes. I have with sales managers, with administrators, with very serious administrators whom I've known for a long time, I still had communication with them three times a week in projects when I was a sales director. And a sales director is equal to the owner, if, well, like, a small company. Accordingly, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. On Monday, I summarize the previous week, understand the situation. We always go by key indicators. I always have three key blocks. This is the conversion indicators block, average check, calls. The second important block is about money. Revenue by product, revenue from the base, well, everything related to this. And the third block is the team. I always need to know the situation in the team, who among the managers is where, what's happening, do we need to hire anyone else? And because these are the three main focuses that I need to keep. And there's always a separate block: in what do you need my help? The question is, so that we achieve the numbers we set. This question is very important. It sounds like support. And here you really train your employee so that they are not afraid to ask: "Do you need help?" Because often sales managers are afraid to ask. Like, if I ask the owner for help, it means I'll look weak, unprofessional, and this help will be perceived negatively by them. No, you. To remove this, you need to, well, train them, what help is needed? What help? It's worse when you stay silent, don't meet the numbers, and consequently, we end up not meeting them, and even worse, we get into cash flow issues. So you can't stay silent. And we need to train them through this communication. On Wednesday, we set weekly plans, on Wednesday, an intermediate summary, and on Friday, something might be different. So you know the goals of your sales managers? Personal? Personal? Yes. No. That's another trick. Sales managers don't know their managers' goals. And owners or executive directors don't know. So why? Why do we think the owner should deal with personal goals? And in all our communities, we have goals, tracking, and so on. But why did we decide that our employees are different people? This is a huge discovery. 100% of people who come to training for sales managers and owners are amazed. They don't even have this tool or practice. I say, understand that this is the main tool to understand how much he wants to earn, what are his interests, what does he want and why should he invest in working? Because, understanding the personal goals of your employees, you understand how broadly he can go with you. And sometimes you say: "And here's your motivation, we achieve the quarterly figure, here's a trip to the sea, for your dream." So, at 30 years old, an employee, my assistant came. At 30, he had never been to the sea and had never been to St. Petersburg. I say: "Vanya, how is that?" Well, like that. Like, for me, it's unattainable. How much does it cost? Do you know, I say, how much it costs to go to St. Petersburg? I don't know, but I say, I don't earn that much. So I tell you 10,000. Do you know that 10,000 is enough to fulfill your dream? Only 10,000. I'm paying you. He looks at me like that, doesn't believe it. I say: "Go in, look, Sapsan, there and back. You don't even need to stop. You arrive in St. Petersburg in the morning, leave in the evening, walk around, your dream has come true." So I sent him to St. Petersburg. Then he went to the sea for the first time at 30. Six months later, he's already giving his girlfriend an iPhone. I didn't give my wife an iPhone at that moment. She's already giving an iPhone for 100,000. What did I do? I just opened up this other world for him. Unpacked the box. Unpacked the box. So he understood why he should earn, and he understood that it's different there. And what happens to employees? Somewhere, with you, there was even a question, what is the very first criterion? When we understand that they don't need more. That's the criterion. I come, I say: "How long has the manager been working? 2 years. How much does he earn?" "130." Why? Well, like, I say, your manager is a brake on sales, because 130 is enough for him. It's enough for him. And for this to become insufficient, it's work with goals. And you have to, like, and every month there's a tool. Every month we set a personal goal. We understand how much money is needed for it, so that, that is, managers think in short iterations. And this short iteration really engages them. And how did I come to this? I found this back in the BM times. We used to draw a rocket, and everyone wrote down their goals in different areas. And every time they came to the office, they saw it. Every time they looked at what were the work goals and what were the goals. For example, work goals. I usually didn't focus on money, but on the number of participants, students, number of graduates. So why should they count some profit or something else? So you put them in some mission, and they see how they are involved, how they influence. And you combine work goals with personal ones. If we achieve this figure, then all personal goals are achieved. This is a very important and cool tool. And, well, then I started, when I had 100 managers, I saw such a top manager fulfilling, fulfilling, well, a strong manager fulfills. A sharp decline. What's going on? I didn't understand what was happening. And I started, well, like, to investigate. And I did renovations, bought a car, went on a trip, you understand? The goals ended, the goal was closed, and immediately a decline. That is, the person doesn't change, that is, he can't spoil, you know, at once, but his engagement and motivation change. Well, this is the reason why I'm working my ass off here from morning till evening. And because I can operate in such a relaxed mode, and someone has saved up a cushion. Is a mortgage motivating? It's not, but I like to hire people with mortgages. Because they always need money. Yes. Second criterion. I like to hire people from the regions. With all due respect to Muscovites, we, for example, in 2GIS, when I arrived, we were a startup, Muscovites were 1% in my staff, because it's super comfortable. You have an apartment, you don't need to break your back. You live, like, with your mom or someone else, it's a completely different mentality. People coming from the regions, like me, your salary will only go to rent, you will never have enough money. You understand the trick? Yes. Anyway, you can't stop me, you stop me. No, you're great. Look, do you hire people who are visiting Moscow or do you hire directly from the regions? Because it's also comfortable for them there. No, we used to hire for the office, and now I. Now it doesn't really matter which city they are in. You just look for people by criteria, by criteria, so that they have the desire to earn, so that there is a reason why they need it. I always ask first in an interview, what are your goals? So, I'm always interested in personal results, achievements in life. Because if a guy knows how to achieve results somewhere in sports, in some, I don't know, conferences, then he has the skill of achieving results. If he's passive and nothing, it's a very strong energy component, by the way. So I choose managers more by criteria. I haven't interviewed in a long time, but when I was choosing and we choose for the team, my guys, we choose by these criteria, by personal qualities. Because changing personal qualities is much more difficult than, say, hard skills. You understand, professional ones. You don't hire the dull ones. And in sales, he's not far. Well, like, he's not far. He'll just be there. Because what is sales? Especially by phone. From how you start the conversation, do you want to continue talking or not? You're already selling the first, like, 10 seconds, the continuation of the conversation or not. It's easier to teach some sales skills than to instill them and spend a lot of faith, you know, something else. You understand? So, I hire people with desire. So, if something doesn't work out for him in the first, second month, but I see that there is desire, I am ready to invest in him. Today, it's very important not to try to sift through or look for a Superman. Everyone wants to hire a ready-made manager, to invest, to develop. Today, this is, by the way, one of the main tools in the sales department, training, employee development. For some reason, to my surprise, when I came out, well, you understand, I've lived there for more than 10 years, and this is normal for me. When I entered the market 2 years ago, started with various companies, I saw that for some reason no attention is paid to this at all. They think, well, what, once a month they conducted some training on objection handling, is that enough? No, we work with the mind, that is, mentally, we work with emotions, that is, we ramp up and we work with sales skills. That is, these are different layers. And every week it's regular work. That is, you invest, you train. Why did I choose the niche of training sales managers? Well, because there are very few places in the market where you can send a supervisor. And I'm looking for this. I'm a teacher, a history teacher, a psychologist. It seems that over the years my whole family are teachers, but I went into sales. So over the years, this topic caught up with me. And I like to give this. And that's how I got, like, a program, that I teach. Well, so now there are 70 people, by the end of the year there will be over 100 people. This is what I get pleasure from, I share, and I see how they get energized. Why don't I do this program recorded? Why? Because I work with the team. I work with them as my supervisors, as directors, that is, I invest, because there is even an element, you understand, sports. Our morning starts for ourselves, everything starts with this. If your guys walk around glumly, and they don't engage, look, in sales, doing sports, this is also a very important criterion, by the way. So that he is energized, so that he can simply recharge. This is also a criterion, by the way. Now I'm telling you and I realized that all the strong guys, 80% do sports. Sports. So you should hire people who do sports. So that you, in sales, in sales, yes, maybe girls do something, yoga, or something with their body, they do something. Not everyone necessarily runs. I'm not saying that everyone should run. No. Do you know that my team, with whom I've been training for 8 years, it was in BM, I created a triathlon team and found a coach. And we've been together for 8 years, it's the ninth year. Amazing. Everyone is already in different companies. The core. We went to the mountains just now. Of them, half are from that team. Cool. This is sports. This is just such a magnet that draws people together. I had marketers, managers, an executive director on my team. And it unites so much, it creates such an atmosphere, because everything manifests itself like in sports. You see someone starts training a lot, then they fizzle out. Everything, everything the same happens at work, in business. Exactly the same. So sports is such a litmus test for how we act. I fizzle out, I'm like, 2 months of pumping, you know, tra-ta-ta-to. And you can trace that, maybe in business projects, the same thing can happen. So this is a vivid reflection of what's happening. And when you understand this, you think: "Oops, caught it." So, let me take smaller steps. Let me do this. So, I'll do the long distance. So, I've had 8 years of sports in my life, for example. And I get pleasure. You need to cross this line, when from "have to" it becomes "like." Then you can't be stopped. We hired a person, that's it, they do sports, they're not gloomy, they've passed our filters. What, how should we build, what to do the first week?
With him, so that he gets involved in the work? The first week is adaptation. That is, I hired him, that's it, we're talking, and we must have at least 5 days of basic adaptation prescribed, what he must go through. Not that you gave him some video recordings to watch or threw a bunch of chats at him, study. No, why am I talking about this and mocking? Because this is, damn it, happening everywhere. We think we've taken, here, read, study. Usually, they run away. And now, so that you understand, an employee can go through adaptation simultaneously in two, three companies. For adaptation. That is, he comes to you and again and again, and for him, it's indicative. That is, why has adaptation become such that a percentage drops off after adaptation? Because if he gets this kind of treatment, like, here, watch videos, he'll run away. He talked to someone else, he'll run away. Well, like, oh, it's difficult, it's difficult to call here. And therefore, adaptation is such, it's the second entry. The first entry, you know what it is? HR, when they talk for the first time, or a recruiter. Before, recruiters could be like, we sit, they come to us, but today they have to sell you, hook you with the vacancy, interest you. This is the first entry. The second entry is when he accepts the offer, starts the adaptation. We must pay attention to this. We might have something recorded by days. I, as a rule, first, he gets acquainted with the company, the company, studies, I give some tasks, for example, such as compare us with competitors, say why we are better. That is, you must involve him, so that he starts comparing, understands why we are cool. Every evening of the adaptation day, there should be feedback from the manager, what has been done, there should be micro-tasks. That is, he must, like in a game, complete micro-tasks. Plus, on the first day, we introduce him to employees, to the team. The second day, I, as a rule, dedicate to CRM, how we work, Telegram, WhatsApp, some such channels. This is all live, right? Well, on Zoom. Well, on Zoom. Well, I mean, these are not recorded videos. Something is recorded mixed, something is recorded. What is repeated, for example, CRM, you recorded a screen, it's relevant, you can give it to him, yes, but he watched it, gave feedback or asked a question. Uh-huh. So you have windows when you contact him for half an hour, for example, two or three times a day. Uh-huh. So that you don't sit with the newcomer and spend the whole week on him, that's not necessary either. Accordingly, next is the product, everything related to the product. Here, you can also involve product people so that he immediately gets acquainted with the team. This is also cool, not just that the CRO does all this. That is, I involve various specialists who can do this, because the CRO's time is expensive. The fourth day is scripts. We analyze here, the CRO should, like, we analyze the structure, we see who we are calling, how clients are. The fifth day is usually field work, that is, he already tries to call. And such a micro-test. Today is attestation, it's easy to do by uploading GPT, saying: "Make me an attestation." It's generally simple today. On the fifth day, during adaptation, we make a decision. I make a decision, and you, as a candidate, make a decision, and after that, you leave. After that, it will be completely different. What do we do next? The third step. We create an individual development plan for the probation period, for 2 months. Where we write down goals, where we write down how I will develop you, what needs to be done, what you need to learn independently, what indicators are needed. That is, you give him the whole picture immediately. 99% don't do this. This is a tool, and I just, you see, had a very cool base at Vuas. We had our own training staff. And all these things, I got them right from the basics. Well, I was lucky that I got into a company where I was very surprised by all this. And this IDP, I talk about it now at trainings, CROs look at me like, what is this? Uh-huh. I say: "Today, IDP is one of the tools that helps you retain an employee and be on the same page with him about what is expected of him and what result he should achieve. Individual Development Plan, yes, IDP it's called. Yes, probation. We, I think, don't do this for anyone yet. Yes, yes. Yes, this works very well for newcomers. And that's it, and you start working with him and start with the training system and so on. For example, if we need to hire several of them and you understand that you have several vacancies, it's better to immediately bring them to adaptation, to get them ready, so that two or three people learn, so as not to train them one by one each time. You touched on how it became easy and now at every step, and a salesperson, all this. I started diving in with one, with the second, with the third, met more than ten different people and realized that there are no solid cases yet. Uh-huh. They are just starting to appear. For example, callers. And this is audio recordings. The client already cringes at auto-dialers and immediately hangs up. That is, the level is not there yet. Then correspondence, there are already some small cases. I even have partners who already, well, and we hear it, yes, some correspondence appears, but there is no way that you copy-paste and just copy. Uh-huh. You still have to set up, say, an agent, or train them. And what does GPT allow today? It allows you to write scripts somewhere. Uh-huh. It allows you to create some training materials. Some say: "That's it, GPT became my trainer." I don't believe that managers are still skeptical. Imagine, you feed GPT, it gives you something, and the manager goes to do it, they are skeptical. The quality department already today, we have partners, we are already doing it in projects. That is, they already like how quality is handled by 80%. For example, it makes sense to have a quality department when you have at least 100-200 calls a day successfully, so that there is something to work with. If the volume is small, you have enough of some assistant girl who listens to the quality department and does it, because it will be more expensive for you. But already at large volumes, yes, yes, yes, already a quality department, correspondence, all this, or some operations, tell me, how here, like a script, or how would you act here, or for correspondence, you can consult something, but you need to adapt, you need to, well, as it were, teach yourself to be adequate, because it's visible when it's written by GPT, for example, or when a person writes. Uh-huh. But in the near future, in short, the tool will not replace it, it will accelerate us. Uh-huh. Should CROs and managers dive into this? Yes. Yes. Well, so as not to be behind the market. Definitely yes. So, we have viewers from micro and small businesses. Let's imagine that you entered, for example, a company where there are 15 people working. By what signs will you understand that everything is bad in the company? The first sign, as I said, they don't call. The second sign, there is no regular reporting and no planning, like plan vs. actual for the day and week. Third, talking to managers is shifting responsibility. The leads are not right, there is no traffic, in short, like, complain, right? These are the first signs of toxicity, I call them. Fourth, there is no training, some chaotic individual training. That is, there are no individual field trainings. They gather something once a week or once every 2 weeks, and fourth, there are no daily planning meetings and evening reviews. Sixth, accordingly, the head, the head of sales, acts not from a proactive position, but waits for something to be given to him. What does a proactive position mean? He should communicate with marketing, find out how it is, he should be interested in what is happening there, what are the plans, how many leads. He should offer options. Not, like, they didn't give me leads, and that's it, there's nothing. He should offer options. And where to get money? We always lacked leads in all projects. Always hot ones. Like, if you take decomposition and a plan, there are always not enough hot ones. But we start to pull from the database, we start to generate, because my task is in the form of a plan. I have a number, I have motivation signed for it, and I start to generate and think, where to get it? So we come up with different packages from the database to increase the average check. We come up with upsells. We come up with motivations. Also, by the way, one important criterion is motivation planning. So, five tools. The first tool is motivation planning. Okay. The second is hiring, that is, hiring, adapting new people is a constant funnel. I, by the way, made a mistake in hiring at Geck Brains. 10 million, according to my calculations, I, well, simply lost on one mistake. Which one? Do you know what the mistake was? The mistake was that I stopped hiring in December, the only time, because according to my calculations, 10 people should have quit, and out of 100, well, like, not very active ones. In January, there is usually a drop-off. It's always like that. Well, you just need to take this into account. Well, I thought 10 would quit, everything is fine, and like, well, and the decomposition, plans were calculated. Therefore, in December, I stop, well, not the season, why bother, but 15 leave. M. In January, mid-month comes, we have a deficit, plans are agreed, workload. It falls on experienced technical managers to bring in new ones. We, of course, brought in 25 employees in a month, but it takes 2-3 months for them to ramp up, right, so that they get up to speed. And so one mistake, one decision of mine, cost about 10 million. And after that, I told myself: "Never stop recruiting." Uh-huh. Never. And to every owner of a project, no matter how big you are, I say, your recruitment should always be open in the sales department, if you have a sales department. Why? Because you should not become dependent on some old-timers. At any moment, they can start to blackmail you. Second, you should have fresh blood coming in. You should be looking for these кадры today, searching for them. They periodically come to the market. Uh-huh. And you can have recruitment either in an active phase or in a passive phase. What is passive? Passive is even some kind of assistant. With all due respect to the assistant, she doesn't do it professionally, but she can search, post a vacancy on HeadHunter. That is, you pay for the vacancy, you don't even hire a recruiter. That is, she looks at some candidates once a week, brings you two or three candidates to look at. And you also do this for what? To understand if you are in the market or not, what is happening in the market. Oops, a good candidate. Hook him for adaptation. Come to us. And you can always find a place for him. As soon as a candidate is found, you create a generation, where else to add traffic, do something else. Uh, so, for example, in my sales department, there is one, conditionally, an icebreaker, there is one farmer, and there is a senior manager. I don't have a CRO, I have a senior manager. Yes. So I also need to keep a vacancy updated and constantly bring someone in. Yes, you can look in a passive phase. If there isn't much volume right now, then you should look in a passive phase, for whom else you need to find. Either you need an icebreaker, or another manager. And it doesn't mean that you should rush and bring him in, but you look at who comes in. And it's very cool, of course, I always say in pairs, so that there is competition, because icebreakers and managers are not competition. Uh-huh. They perform different tasks. And when there are two managers, then you know what is happening with the owner. I think: "How to load and where to get traffic for me," right? And you solve another problem. And this is already about scaling. Uh-huh. And when you sit with one, he tells you: "Well, everything is fine." And you don't understand if it's fine or not. Yes. You have no one to compare with. Yes, that's the trick. Or the senior manager together with the manager on the same level, well, he just sends you reports. And accordingly, well, you look at the market, you search, you search, you search constantly, as it were, you check it, because a very good candidate can come. Uh-huh. And you need to hook him. This is the second hiring. The third tool is training and employee development. I generally believe that today, in the current realities, this is one of the most important tools for us to retain existing employees and grow them, to influence the result, because through training you kill two birds with one stone. This is an influence on conversions, on indicators in the sales department, because you motivate them, you analyze something, well, you increase expertise. That is, this is this block. And the second block is that you work with the team through training, as you invest in their development, team building constantly, because you involve them so that managers prepare some training. You make sure that they share their experience. And this exchange of experience, as it were, the weak catch up with the strong, and the strong reach for, well, for those who are even stronger. And always, a manager, what is his path? He either grows horizontally, as a professional, as a master, or vertically, right? into a leader. That's it, two paths. Often, we forget one of the paths, for example, there is no opportunity for vertical growth, or there is no opportunity for horizontal growth, as a master. And therefore, training reveals all this. Through training, you can see who is in what mood, even, so to speak, because in training there is, for example, my favorite system of training is when there are three layers. This is field individual training, when I take some block, for example, needs identification, we analyze it, I give feedback on it, I listen to the call. The second layer is group training, twice a week on different topics in the form of master classes, in the form of some analyses, with the involvement of other departments, product, other experts. Well, on the product, on sales skills. Well, you train them. And the third type is, I call them, like, various formats. This is brainstorming, what I told you, these are some offsite meetings, this is the format of TED talks. I have such a TED talk format. This is when you prepare some report on a topic for 10 minutes and share it. [ __ ] So you involve them. It goes very well. Yes, the guys prepare. The guys themselves prepare. You say, share your five tips on how you sell a large check. Uh-huh. Or how you handle objections. Or you prepare, well, you know, study the biographies of cool sellers or great people, even biographies. Through biographies, you understand what qualities are needed. [ __ ] That is, you, well, as it were, the head must move, because we think that this sale is monotonous, monotonous. It cannot be. Some say: "How can you have new clients every day?" Uh-huh. So much changes. Today there is a whole pool, for example, someone, you see, is interested in artificial intelligence. So. prepare, what are the tips? And he shares. So, guys, like this, like this, like this. People share with pleasure, believe me. Well, you need to create this culture. If we don't create it, well, as it were, not everyone will share just like that. This is training. Another important block is everything related to automation. I even include in automation, besides CRM, settings, WhatsApp, I include templates, so that you have them, so that you have a database of manager tools, so that you have, as a result, I, as a manager, must provide my managers with tools, templates, so that they don't waste time on this. Uh-huh. That is, I supply them with resources, their task is, and they should spend their main time with the client. For example, you see that a manager spends a lot of time on calculations. Create a calculator that will, well, help him. You see, he spends time on commercial offers. He constantly tries to create something unique. Make a template. Uh-huh. Here, you see, a presentation, well, as it were, he lacks something to send to the company, give him a presentation. And these tools must be there, because when you see that a manager is busy with the wrong thing, sits half a day making commercial offers, half a day doing calculations, you need to eliminate this immediately. He should communicate. His main function is to communicate with clients and sell. Uh-huh. And often some managers shy away from this, because it's more convenient to sit and make commercial offers, no need to expend energy. Uh-huh. Why are calls not so pleasant? Why? Because there is a lot of necessary energy. You can hear rejections yourself, or something else. And therefore, it is invented. That's exactly the fourth one, it's the implementation of standards, activity, this funnel that we need to monitor. Uh-huh. And another important tool in the sales department is our daily indicators, which we monitor in the form of dashboards. Even just a technical SMS. Uh-huh. Set the plan in the morning, actual in the evening. The means should be constant. Well, let me tell you separately, what is now, well, it's in the top, it's working and selling from the database. Uh-huh. Not from hot leads who contacted themselves, but from the database. Uh-huh. Today, everyone has started working with the database, understanding that you need to go there, because you cannot endlessly give hot leads. Today, traffic, today, one channel can disappear, another can become three times more expensive. And therefore, I must learn to work with what I already have. These are the tools, and the database is a separate topic altogether. That is, we can talk for 2 hours only about the database, you understand? Because I, well, I've eaten dog on this, we always sold from the database. Our time with Vasily has actually run out. We've gone over the timings, ah, already. Yes, yes. In general, I want you to write a plus in the comments or your opinion, so that we invite Vasily for the second time to the podcast, and he reveals to us how to work with the database. For these one and a half hours, I received a colossal amount of insights that I will rewatch, take notes, write down. It's a great pity that I couldn't take a notebook and write with you immediately, but you have such an opportunity. You are watching this recording now. I want us to meet a second time. And I want you to support me in this. Let's get, I don't know, 100 likes and at least 50 comments about Vasily, please, let's meet again and discuss the issue of how to work with the database, because it really hurts everyone. That's it. If we get 50 comments, 100 likes on YouTube, then I will write to Vasily: "Vasily, that's it, let's meet again. We will definitely record a continuation of this dialogue." Vasily, thank you. It was super powerful for me. I would have watched the time with apprehension, that it was flying by so quickly, and I still had so much not to ask. Damn, time really flew by very quickly. That's why thank you very much. Yes, it was very cool. Vasily has a Telegram channel, we will take it, put it in the description. Be sure to subscribe. You see how much energy Vasily has. He, first of all, does sports. He recently climbed Elbrus. He has a YouTube channel. In general, everything will be in the description. Be sure to subscribe and write comments about us meeting again next time. Thank you. Thank you very much. y