Interview with Hitmasterfish

What's up everyone? Good morning or good afternoon wherever you are when you're listening to this. Today we're going to be speaking with Hitmaster Fish. Uh man, this guy is very influential. A lot of students, a lot of uh students he's had in the popping scene that have really inspired a lot of other dancers. Um, I know I was just speaking with Big Mike and he mentioned when he met Hitmaster Fish. I also know Tavata, she has mentioned Hitmaster Fish as a teacher as well. Um, I believe Monster Pop as well is connected, but we're going to find out. But I'm excited to speak with him and hear his story of uh, yeah, his dance journey. So, let me send this to him and then we'll get started. All right.

Hey, >> what's up? Player player from the Himalaya. >> No, I'm good, man. I'm good. How are you feeling? How's it going? >> I'm good, man. >> I'm all right. >> Nice. Okay. Okay. Well, man, well, thank you. I appreciate you, you know, finding time to do this, to share your story, share your journey. Um, you know, a little, I know I shared a little bit when I messaged you, but I've been collecting stories of different dancers from all over the world, you know, a lot of street dancers, poppers, um, from the West Coast, from New York, from Paris, just all over the world, hearing their stories, how they started, and, you know, I wanted to hear your story because uh, your name was brought up. I've heard your name multiple times. Um, from I was just talking with Big Mike from New York. >> That's my man. >> Yeah. Yeah. He was sharing how he, you know, how he when he met you and that impact. Um, and then also to Tavata from the Netherlands. >> Yeah. I was just with her uh last week. >> Right. I remember she's brought up your name. And then I know personally, like years ago, when I was watching videos, you know, on YouTube and Facebook, like when you, I remember there was a time where popping was very kind of the, it looked very the same, like, you know, there was a specific way of going about it, but when you showed up and when you would share and you would post it, you were kind of more like, no, like you, you seemed to be different. You stood out and you were sharing a different approach. This was my perspective when I started to see or hear about you. >> Um, so yeah, I would love to, thank you again, you know, for finding. >> No problem, man. >> Yeah. >> Where, where are you from? >> So, uh, I'm so I live right now, I live in Long Beach in California. >> Okay. >> I live in Long Beach. I grew up most of my life in Pennsylvania on the East Coast. And >> Where, where at PA? >> Uh, Lehigh Valley, Allentown, like that area. >> I know Allentown. >> Yeah. So Lehigh Valley. >> I, I, I was living in New York and in Baltimore, so I know Allentown. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I know, I know Harrisburg. Um >> Okay. Yeah. >> All, um, I know, Oh, man. Um, York, Pennsylvania. >> Yes. >> I know a whole bunch. I used to go to a lot of car auctions up there. I used to sell cars. So >> Oh, really? Okay. Oh, nice. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, so Pennsylvania and then, um, I was born in Queens, New York, but again, most of my life Pennsylvania. >> Okay. Cool. >> Yeah, man. But, but yeah, I would, you know, just for any, anyone watching here right now, if you have any questions you'd like to ask, feel free. You can ask them. We're going to just go through Hitmaster Fish's journey and how, where he, how did he get into this dance and what did he see and, uh, yeah, we'll just kind of go down the rabbit hole and Okay. Yeah. Any questions from you, Hitmaster Fish, you want to ask me before, before we get started? >> Ah, how long you been popping? Are you a popper? Uh, so popping was the first street dance that I got an interest in and I was watching. Um, and then over the years, I was inspired by different things like flexing in New York and then I would get into the digits, like the whole, you know, the tiny love digits and all of those things. Um, and then I, I, I feel like I kind of get a bit like just little pieces of different things and mixing it up and experimenting. So, >> Tiny Love is a good friend of mine, too. I love Tiny. Really do. >> Yeah. Nice. Okay. Okay. >> So, you know, you, you know, the interesting thing, I used to tell Tiny, the first time I saw Digits, you know, uh, the first time I saw Digits was in Gard, was in Gardina in '85. >> Really? What did you, what was that? What did you, how did you? >> Oh, I saw some moments. So, I was in New York for a while and then I came back back to Gardina and when I came back, I went to Perry Junior High and I was battling a lot in school and this big Samoan dude named Big Gus, we would got into a big battle and he hit me with this digits and I never seen that [ __ ] I was like, "What in the [ __ ] is he doing?" He boom. But he was um, he was animating them and he was um, domino digits. He was throwing dominoes. So he would go >> boom, pow. But he'd be anime, boom. He'll animate with it. And I was like, "Oh [ __ ] shit." Then come to find out, it was quite a few Samoans in my school doing that [ __ ] at the time. And I was, I just came back from New York. >> Wow. >> So, um >> I had started seeing that and it blew my mind the way he would, the way they was doing it. I was like, "Oh, this is this shit's tight. It was tight." >> That's that's the stuff, man, that like I get excited to hear about 'cause like it's like people wouldn't know these names or these things have happened because there's no unless someone talks about it, you know? There's no content, there's no face, there's no videos or anything of this. So n >> that's that's I love it. I love to hear the >> Gardina, Gardina is on the border of uh Arbor, Harbor City and uh Carson. So it's and those in that area is a lot of Samoans >> and there was a lot of Samoans popping at that time. >> Okay. Okay. >> Wow. >> So, so let's, let's get to the, let's start from the beginning of how did you get into dance? What was your first introduction into dance? And I guess I know possible, but >> Yeah. >> Uh, I never got into dancing. Dancing got into me. >> Oh. >> Because I never had conscious of dancing. I've been dancing since I was two. So I'm not aware of what I was doing. My mom told me. >> She told me, she, I was at a barbecue one time and I jumped off her lap. James, they put James Brown on and I jumped off her lap and I start doing footwork. So foot and but no one never taught me. She never seen me dance or nothing. And I've been pretty much dancing ever since. But my first dancing was like footwork. >> And then maybe in the mid-70s or so, mid to early '70s, I was doing, we was doing a lot of robot and a lot of social dances from that time. >> Okay. >> So in uh '79 and uh '46 in Normandy in LA in the in the Vermont district. M >> Uh, I used to live there right off of Normandy and, um, uh, I used to see people popping >> all the time, but I, I wasn't interested in. I was already a dancer, good, very good dancer. >> But, um >> I would see guys at my elementary school, which was called uh Normandy Elementary >> and all my community, all my neighbors, everyone was pop-locking. So, um, one day we was on 45th and Hillsdale, uh, on on my friend's porch and Gary, who lived across the street from, he was like, "Yo, Fishy, they used to call me Fishy in in LA. Fishy, you want to know how to pop out?" I'm like, "Yeah, sure." And he start, you know, going through the basics. Boom. Showing me [ __ ] And I start popping. And I've been popping ever since. So about a few months went by, months and months went by and I got better than him. So he started taking me on Vernon, Vernon, different places, all up and down Normandy. I'm battling kids and then I hooked up with a guy named James and this, he had an older cousin that was a badass popping named Vernon >> and James went to school with with me. So we formed a group. >> Okay. So, we had, uh, we had a group in our school. We didn't really have a name. It was just a little group we had. It was me, James, Raymond, and Donald. >> They were from different other communities. So, they would bring different styles and moves to school and we would bring what we had or what we were learning or seeing in our community to school. So, this is how our styles began to mesh. >> I see. Okay. >> So, this is like, this is like uh fall of '79. Fall. Okay. Okay. >> Around that time. So, um, fast forward 1980, I started seeing a change in popping. >> You start, you start to see a change. You said >> Yeah. It's a, it's a big difference in popping from '78, '79 up until '80. >> What did it look like in '78, '79? What were people like? What did it look like? Oh, okay. The swaying kind of, Oh, okay. >> Stuff like that. >> Then you, you know, but at that time, you still, you had people waving and doing different stuff, but a lot of times [ __ ] stuff didn't hit certain communities until a certain time, >> right? Okay. So, because I, I'm, I'm learning now from talking to fellow OGs and they were telling me they was doing Troy Waves and stuff for '78, '7, '79, '78. So, they was doing other styles >> but around in our community, that's some of the styles they were doing. So when '80, when '80 start to hit, is when I saw uh, uh, more waving, gliding, start floating started coming >> in '80, '81 came, '82, you start seeing different types of touch, bugs bunny touching, touch, different variations of styles, uh, different types of animation. It just kept piggybacking on and on and on to about '84 or so. But see, in '83, I went to New York. >> Not the first time. I always, my family, so I was, I pretty much grew up in the Bronx and Baltimore. So, our family was always in New York. I've been going to New York since I was in the cradle, >> you know. >> Wow. Okay. Wow. >> Yeah. So, um, I went to New York for the summer to visit my aunt. Well, no, '82. And I hooked up with groups, Mr. Freeze and and uh Freeze Force and other people. Uh, I was in a group called Dance System 10 >> and I started dancing with New Yorkers. So I'm going to tell you a story. >> Yeah. >> The first time I went, I went the summer of '82 and I'm in a building. Our buildings in the Bronx is 42 floors. Tower A, Tower B is 39 floors. >> It's 12 apartments on each floor. So you can imagine how many kids and we all >> we all still friends till this day. We have our page and everything. We have a building reunion every year. >> Wow. >> Um >> Um, I went, was was at the playground, started playing with my, Oh, Fish is back. Oh, woo, woo, woo. So they was taking me to everybody's apartment to let everybody know I was back. So, we were standing in the U, waiting for the elevator. It was about four or five of us. And I never forget it. I remember like yesterday, they said, "Uh, hey, Fishy Fish, you, you know how to boogie?" I'm like, "What the hell is boogie? >> Catch a boogie, man." And I'm like, "What is that?" >> Right? >> And they start popping. I'm like, "Oh, y'all pop a lot." So I start boom, boom, boom, I start hitting. They went, "Oh [ __ ] that's the real West Coast shit." They grabbed me. >> They grabbed me, picked me up, picked my little ass up, took me across the street to a school, a high school called Clinton High School. >> So you're in, how old are you there? You going to a high school? >> No, we went there. It was summertime. That's where we, we're going to swim in and play. >> But listen, let me break the story down. So when we get, I've been about the every summer, that's where we go swimming and stuff, okay? And we would play basketball in the gym and stuff. So this particular summer when I went back, what happened was they took me and we went in the gym and I ain't never seen so many B boys in my goddamn life. >> Wow. Okay. >> And I've seen all these B boys and boogers and lockers and stuff and they was like, "Yo, you got to meet my man. We got my man. From California. Yeah, man. West Coast Pop Locker." They like, "Who this little kid?" >> They pop Fish. Boom, boom, boom, boom. They went crazy. So they start running me around the Bronx. I'm getting in battles and I'm building a name. I be Fable. I knew Fable and Wiggles and Clown and Freezing them since I was like 11, 12 years old. >> Oh wow. Okay. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So who >> Mhm. Who, who were some of the like, I guess like the poppers? 'Cause you're saying they, it was Electric Boogie. Were, were people, was it more Electric Boogie than popping or like in the New York at that time? >> Okay. So, um, in New York, um, they danced to breaks. >> Breakbeats. They didn't, they, every people dance to funk, of course, but I'm talking about in terms of popping or boogie, they would dance to a lot of breaks. This is when electro funk started coming in heavy a little bit and then it became electro. So, uh, they move a little different. >> They didn't understand the whole concept of how to hit. >> Most people. Some people figured it out. Some people learn from people from the West. So they would do stuff like, stuff like this, or you know, they didn't have that hidden, robotic hidden foundation, but they had everything else, waves. >> Till this day, New York has the best glides I ever seen. >> And they taught me all these crazy ass glides. Clown and other people I was around. Crazy ass glides. And when I went back to uh LA, well Gardina, I was wearing people's asses out with them glides. >> Wow. I didn't, that's interesting. New York had, why, why New York, you think, had this, this, this essence of gliding? 'Cause I, you know, this might be off topic, but I even think of flexing, I think of like storyboard P, you know, like gliding is such a strong thing in New York, but >> Always, that's what they >> that's what they uh perfected. >> Gliding and touch. Those three styles. It was other styles too, don't, but those, those three styles kind of stood up, uh, uh, stood out to me. >> Interesting. >> As far as the way New York would do their style, some moves and stuff, >> you know, and, um, they, they could robot, they could do pretty much all the styles. Uh, I say 95% had problems with hitting, >> or didn't understand hitting, >> okay? >> You know, the way we, we, we approached it on the West Coast. >> But, okay, >> as far as all the other moves and stuff, high level, bro. Waving, touching, >> high level glides. No one could touch New York till this day in gliding except for the Jokers, of course, but like >> Wow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It was really, really crazy. >> Wow. >> So, this, we're talking about '82, '83, >> you know, coming into '84. I did the uh one of the first hip-hop documentaries, Beat This. >> Okay. >> Um, The History of Hip Hop, 1984. We filmed that in '83 and it came out in '84. But, um, I was just running around New York performing. I did Funhouse, Madison Square Garden. Fun House was a big club back then. Um, Red Parrot >> uh, and a few other venues that we would do. I, we, I was down with a big group and we had some really phenomenal B boys in our group. >> Wow. >> So it was five boogieers >> and five B boys. We were called Dance System 10. >> Nice. Nice. Okay. >> And we, we was in the northern part of the Bronx, >> you know, Mosholu Parkway. Jerome and Jerome Avenue, Mosholu. New Yorkers know Jerome Avenue, Mosholu Parkway. That's where we were with the four train lines. But, uh, our two apartment buildings was, two was the two biggest, uh, buildings in the Bronx >> at one time. Not now, but, uh >> Right. >> But at that time, yeah. So, um, I was just having a great time and, uh, you know, with the New York culture and then in the end of '84 or so, I went back to um, uh, Gardina. >> And that's >> Yeah, I went back home. My mom made me come back home. So I went back home and, uh, I, uh, was in in the eighth or ninth grade, eighth grade and then I did the ninth grade and it was, uh, popping at that time was trending in a lot of animation, like I told you, dudes was, uh, doing finger digits. It was just a whole evolution of what was being done from '84, '83 on back, >> you know, 'cause you had, uh, newer poppers coming in also. And then, um, '86, '87, I moved back to East permanently. >> Oh, so you only briefly were back to California, briefly? >> Yeah, I stayed for about a year and a half and then left. We went back to East. We moved, we packed up and we left. And my mom moved us to, uh, Baltimore and I was running back and forth to New York a lot, >> all the damn time 'cause I just love New York. So, um, now the interesting story is this is '86. In '86 is when the popping started to go down. >> All the, uh, popping, B boy and locking was just starting to go. And the reason why is because hip-hop was getting big >> and house was coming in now. >> So in the Northeast part of the US, house was just huge at this time. '86, '87, '88, house is just running [ __ ] All in the clubs, all in New York, Philly, Jersey, Baltimore, DC, Northern Virginia, all these, all these cities were in the house and hip-hop heavily. So what the summer of '86 or so, I went back to New York and they were laughing at me. >> Oh, wow. >> They was like, "Fish, we don't boogie no more. We do freestyle." Like, "What the [ __ ] is freestyle?" And they start, they start doing a w >> and the running mad and [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> You know, because the music had completely changed. Funk died. Metro was was fading out >> and it was just, um, well, hip-hop had changed because in '86 you had Eric B & Rakim, KRS, Public Enemy. You had all these heavy sampling groups, >> MC Shan, Marley Marl, all these heavy sampling groups that were sampling James Brown >> and the music was more of a flow of a bouncier >> rhythm to it, beat to it. So out of that is you, you started seeing the progression of, um, what we call hip-hop. Hold on for a minute. I got to get my, um, my charger. Give me one second. >> No worries. No worries. [Music] There is my, there. [Music] All righty. Let me see here. So, yeah, that's just the, um, one of the evolutions of me. I was like an early part of a popper that went from the East to the West Coast back and forth a lot, >> right? >> And, uh, I, I have stories and histories from both, uh, cities. So, um >> Yeah. >> That's pretty and also Baltimore. So, >> that's pretty much how I grew up. That's why when I pop, I got, I got Mini R. rock and pop, the house, trap music, all types of music because I have a far range of, uh, cultural things that I grew up around. Like in Baltimore, they listen to a lot of house and club. >> I see. >> In DC, too. New York, I listen to a lot of hip-hop and house and other, you know, Philly, Jersey. So, um, yeah. Um, this is how I, I was able to, um, uh, um, in the 2000s when I got heavily back into popping and I was able to move around and and be able to carry my popping through different genres of music >> and and styles and stuff. So, you know, >> Dude, man, I have a couple questions. I guess one question I have at the moment is, where did the name Hitmaster Fish come from? >> Oh, I made that name up in the 2000s because when I came back on the scene, no one was really hitting. >> Oh, in the 2000s, that's where Hitm Fish? >> Yeah, my name was always Fish. I changed my name to Hitmaster Fish 'cause I was the master of hitting, >> you know. >> Okay. And, you know, because in New York, as you can see, Big Mike and other, they just look at me like, how is this little [ __ ] hitting like that? Because I'm a small guy and they always, always want to know. I'm like, it's from West Coast. If you couldn't hit where I was from, if you couldn't hit, you ain't no popper. You might as well just go home. >> So, um >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I see a question. >> Yeah. >> No question. No, you go ahead and then we can answer that question. >> We're gonna get to, we're gonna get to the, anyone has questions. Um, I would like also, man, how did you, did you, in the West Coast, did, how do I say this? I feel like a lot of poppers, they have groups that they're part of or teachers that they, they kind of follow in their footsteps of style, you know, like people may say, uh, uh, Taco, like people like, okay, Taco, like they kind of follow that lineage. Or people may follow like, you know, Electric Boogaloo style or, you know, the Strutting style. Do you find that there's a style that or a group that you have a lineage to or connect to or you feel like you're, you're movement in a sense? I don't know if that makes sense, but 'cause to me, you, uh, to me, it's like you're a unique popper. You don't look like a just a like a traditional like you come from a certain group or affiliation, if that makes sense. >> That, and, you know, I have a lot of problems with that with the OGs because they can't identify with my popping. And let me tell you why. >> Because in the 2000s, I changed my whole format of popping. I didn't want to pop like in the '80s, '70s and '80s like most of the OGs. >> I, I created a different styles of footwork, working, different styles of sacking, different styles of struting, >> different. So I would take certain moves and styles and incorporate it and put it into a newer form, which I call my 2000 styles of popping. So when a lot of OGs see me, I'm not doing traditional pop-rocking moves or movements. >> I progressed it into a whole new different style. So in the 2000s, we dance more. >> In the '70s and '80s, it was popping was not about dancing, bro. >> It was about, it was about styles and moves. >> Styles and moves. Okay. >> Yeah. We never was, if you, if you watch footage of, uh, most OGs popping from the '70s, you don't see nobody actually trying to dance >> or or groove. So we say today, you see people more trying to execute their moves and styles. >> I see. Okay. >> So when the 2000s came, when I came back on the scene, and let me, let me go back. So when I went back, when I left Baltimore and moved back to New York in '02, I was with Jazzy. >> Oh, okay. >> I was hanging out a lot with Jazzy 'cause he was from the West Coast, so we kind of connected. But I wasn't into popping shape at that time. I was just coming back. So Jazzy was breaking all the Electric Boogaloo [ __ ] down to me >> because in LA, I never boogalooed. We always popped. Always. We was pop. >> So >> Um, in the 2000s is when I, uh, started seeing when I came back on the scene, all I saw was boogaloo, >> right? So I'm looking around like, so when I came back to New York and I'm seeing all these Asians and different people popping and I'm like, where's the popping at? All you see was was was people swaying and doing a boogaloo feel to it. And I'm like, what happened to hitting? >> What happened to robotic movements? What happened to gliding? What happened to these elements of popping? And so I start, they Mike and them and other people started seeing me doing that sacking and, but they didn't know what the hell I was doing. >> It wasn't until they watched the Wave Masters tape and they saw, um, um, The Freshest Kid with Mr. Animation >> and they saw Slick the W, you know about the Wave Masters tape? >> Yeah. I, I think. >> So they saw that because I, I was wearing Dickies and stuff. >> Oh, okay. And they was like, "Hold up. That's the same [ __ ] this dude's doing. Hold up." So they would come, Tiny and and uh, um, um, um, and, um, and all of them would come and ask me, "What's this, Fish? What's that?" And I start showing them stuff. This is this, this came from this, this is that. So, um, but they was intrigued by my hitting >> because nobody hitting, bro >> at this time. >> Okay. >> East or West Coast from that generation. Of course, OGs always hit. We OGs, we hit. >> But a lot of, so when the generation was seeing me, they couldn't identify at first what the hell was going on. So they see animation, banging and hitting and stuff 'cause I used to always talk about, we bang, we bang, we bang. And they like, "What the hell is banging?" >> And I'm like, >> "Check this out. This is banging. This is hitting. This is robotic movements. You know, this is sacking. This is struting." And I was just breaking them down. And then that's how I got into teaching. >> Wow. So, so you brought a lot of information to the East Coast. It's breaking that down. >> The 2000 era, >> the young, all the poppers, they kept started coming in in the 2000s. Yes. You. Okay. Got it. >> All, all the progressions of the pop is in the 2000s that started coming up that was in New York City at that time. Yes. >> I was bringing, I was giving them information about certain styles of moves that we did in LA. >> I see. Okay. >> They already had the boogaloo information from Jazzy and, plus Jazzy was giving me Electric Boogaloo information also. >> You were, Okay. I see. >> Yeah. So, you know, >> and, so, um, but a lot, uh, a lot of the kids from that time, they wanted to boom, they wanted to know how to hit, how to how to bang and hit. So, I was showing a lot of kids, you know, different movements, uh, how to control their head, robotic positions, so they won't look sloppy when they hit. And, um, I used to go to the House Dance Conference, >> Brian Green's House Dance Conference. And they all used to look at me like I was crazy. >> Really? Oh. >> Yeah. Jazzy, Jazzy used to come and say, "Fish, Fish, do that gangster [ __ ] Do that gangster shit." >> Because he knew, he, he's from, he's from California. He's from LA area. So he's from, um, Valley. But he knew, he, he knew what I was doing. They didn't know what I was doing. >> Yeah. Interesting. Okay. >> Yeah. So two, three years go by. Now I'm in popping shape now. I'm back popping. Full on fledged popping. And I'm hanging out in Union Square Park. I was a hair stylist for 16 years. >> Wow. Oh wow. >> And, um, so when I would get off of work, I just wanted my beer and my smoke and I would be in Union Square. You know, I used to go to Broadway Dance Center and hang out with Jazzy a lot. >> Wow. >> But it became a point, I stopped doing that. So, I was hanging out in parks and, um, my students start bringing these Asians, Koreans and Japanese, >> right? >> And I'm like, this was before I started traveling. So, I ain't know nothing about none of this [ __ ] >> Okay. >> And, um, um, Buddhist Stretch and other, you know, they started finding out about me, me stretching, um, uh, my young group called the Atomic Hitters, we were hooked up and, and we would be practicing sometimes and different things. But they would bring all these different people down to Union Square 'cause and they be like, "Fish, pop." Now I'm getting off, I'm off of work. I want to chill. That was my safe haven. You know how you get off, just want to have a beer, relax. >> I go to Union Square. I would go to Union Square, have my beer, and I would hang out till 10, 11:00 and then and go home at this time or go party. >> Right. Right. Right. >> So they bringing all these people around. And they was like, "Yo, you got to start traveling." I'm like, "What are y'all talking about?" >> They was like, "Man, they need to see you around the world." >> And even Jazzy was telling me, "Yo, you need to go to back to the West Coast, Fish, so they can see you. You know, you got, you're doing something like really intriguing at this moment." >> So, um, I met Mike. I taught Mike how to hit >> because he was so big and I was like, "Dude," 'cause he was doing all these waving and isolations and stuff. And I was like, "Mike, check this out, bro." Um, hit dude, I don't know you. Who are you? Who are you talking to? That's how you talk to me. And what are you talking about? And his wife was, um, Kati. She was Taiwanese. And I'm like, "No, dude. Put your hands on the wall. Come here. Come here. Put your hands on the wall and just work your chest and your arms and and and your biceps and triceps." He's like, he did it. >> He went home. >> He went home. I don't think I saw him for about a month. A month later, >> he comes out of Union Square train station running up to me. "Fish, it works. It works." >> And he said, boom, boom, boom. I was blown away. I was like, "Oh [ __ ] >> this guy can really hit now." Like he really been training. >> And then people seen Mike and they started seeing people like Ted and Oz Ninja and others. They started seeing them getting better and better. So people started coming to me. >> So during this time >> I met a guy named Dazzle. He was from Montreal. >> H >> And uh, he was, he was like, "Nah, man. You need to come to Montreal and show him that gangster [ __ ]." >> And >> so he brought me to Montreal and that was my introduction to Green Tech Monster. >> That's when I started, that's when I started training him. >> Wow. >> And, and, and, you know, 'cause once, once I went up there, they weren't around at the time. It was a whole another group of people. And then the second time I went up there, I met Monster and all of them. Well, his name was Monster. I named him Monster. Me and Shak. >> Wow. >> Yeah. He was, but what happened was he was, he was, he was, he saw me banging the head and he was trying to pick it up and he would go boom, boom, boom. And Shak looked at him and said, "Man, you look like a monster." And I said, "Yeah, that's your name, man. Monster Pop. You a monster popper." So I left and when I came back, they was calling him Monster Pop. I was like, "Oh, you kept that name." He's like, "Yeah, I kept it." So yeah. >> Wow. >> So that's that's how that all started. Then they got famous. Then I got more famous, >> you know. Then I came to Europe and that's how it all generated. Generated from the core people in New York. >> Wow. >> But, but like I said, in '02 or so, I had to change my popping. >> Mhm. I knew what I wanted to do. I just had to go to work >> and get, get with it. So at the time it was with footwork, animation, robotics and things of that nature. But I was fascinated with my footwork, >> animation, footwork and different moves and stuff. So my dance progressed, which is why I probably look a more unique because I changed my style of dancing from what I was doing from the '70s and '80s >> into the 2000s. I, I impacted my dance from a different mindset. >> What, I maybe I, maybe I didn't, I, I skipped this or I didn't, I didn't hear this part, but what was the shift? Why did you want to change it? Was there a specific moment or thought? Um, some of them was from watching Jazzy. >> Okay. >> I didn't want to boogaloo. >> Okay. >> So, I, I, I would like watch different movies and I would watch some [ __ ] from the Bay. >> Okay. >> And I knew, I'm, I'm footwork king. >> I'm foot. So I'm like, how could I incorporate footwork into a pocket? >> Like >> a far, a broad, a far range of footwork, like to be able to do it from all facets, from robotics, animation, >> you know, gliding, from going from gliding into a footwork, back into gliding. >> So I had to, >> I had to learn. I, I started, I just wanted to think new, >> right? Okay. That's my mindset was new because I knew boogaloo was old. I knew our style of popping was old, which I love. I love to see my brothers do the do all the stuff. I just didn't want to do it anymore. >> You just, night. >> And I knew a new time was coming. Well, not coming. It was here. I knew a new time was here, >> right? >> So, I completely changed my whole way of thinking with popping, which is why, uh, how I came up with the the newer version of of what I do today. And puppet. I love puppet style. So I, I created a, um, an animated mechanical, um, way of puppeting. >> Wow. >> And then I created a, a puppet legs. So >> just different stuff. I was just thinking out there, man. >> Yes. >> And I just didn't want, I just did not want to be, uh, uh, stuck. Now, even now, it's 2025. I'm looking at the kids now and I'm, I'm progressing. >> I'm still progressing. Like >> people tell me I don't dance like I danced 10 years ago. It's more crisp, cleaner >> and, and different things, you know, and, um, I don't put out a lot of videos or anything like that. >> But, uh, yeah, that's basically how I came to that point in the early 2000s. Like I was, like I wanted to be different >> and I wanted to, um, take my dance a little further than what I was doing 20 something years ago prior to that time. >> Right. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Uh, then I'd like to go, then to the question that, uh, Adrian Lobo was asking, which is, how do, how do you feel about the use of the word pop-lock versus popping? And do you see it as an umbrella term or a single style term? >> Pop-locking is a single style that's from LA. I'll repeat it. Pop-locking is a LA-based style. Okay. A lot of the lockers was going into popping and they took some of the movements and the timing, uh, changed. Okay. So a lot of people don't know this, >> which is why I'm doing a lecture. I'm doing to get people to understand when a locker comes into popping. So, so locker's point, right? >> Mhm. >> So if I take this movement here, let me move it back slowly so it won't fall so you can kind of see me so y'all can get an understanding how this [ __ ] works. >> So if I go bop, bop, bop, bop, boom, boom. So poppers went pop. >> Yes. >> Okay. Now the difference is the timing. >> Locking was more of an uptempo dance. Boom, boom, boom. Popping was more slow and robotic. So the timing is in between boxing and locking. >> Wow. >> The tempo of it. So if, if, Oh man. Goddamn. Let me see. Let me see here. So, let me see it. So, a lockers went papas went boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. >> Yes. Yes. >> W papas went boom, boom. So you see some of, but the rhythm was a little bit slower. The tempo was a little bit slower than what we would do when when lockers would lock, when they would lock. See what I'm saying? So lockers would go boom. We, we would do something. We just changed it from pointing into a more of a rigid, robotic movement >> instead of. So it was more in between the beat. The rhythm was in between the beat, the rhythm of locking and popping, or no, and robot. So because if you're roboting, boom, boom. If I'm biting, boom, boom. Now look, you see I take the same moments and turn them into popping, pop. You see right now, the tempo >> the tempo is not as fast as locky >> but it's not as slow as robot. >> Wow. Okay. That middle, middle ground, pop-lock. Okay. Wow. >> Yes. So, I'm not saying any names, but it, it was a little meeting or so and they said they was going to separate popping from locking the words 'cause those are two different dances, >> which is true, but >> it's a, it's a slang. Pop-locking is a slang, but it is a style. It was a style and it was mostly based out of LA. >> Got you. Okay. And that style, >> I'm just learning this even more. It was started in Compton. >> Oh, pop-lock. >> Pop-locking. The name, the term, and stuff was started in Compton >> because they just had a meeting. A lot of OGs, they had just had a big meeting, uh, a few years ago, not too long ago, >> and they did a, um, they did research and they did, um, history check amongst each other. >> Wow. That's >> And that's how they came up with. Yeah, I talked to them and this is how they came up with the term, um, uh, pop-lock at that time, you know. >> So now we, we got more clarification of where, where it actually came out of. >> Wow. >> But far as the style, yeah, the style of, um, pop-locking was an LA term and a lot of people don't know it because, you know, you had lockers and stuff started coming in. No, it's no such thing as pop-locker. And at the time, I let him go. We let him go. Mhm. >> Me and a few other people, I'm not saying their names, we let it go because we didn't want to fight that battle. We was fighting a battle between boogaloo and the poppy >> at the time. So, we, we wasn't going to fight the battle between the pop-locking. So, you had Cool Boy and and uh others, you know. >> Yes. >> Talking and expressing themselves about the pop-locking, which was good for the for the community and the culture. Pop-locking does exist and it needs to be respected >> as a separate term >> of what a lot of other people were doing at the time. >> I see. Okay. Got it. >> So, I hope whoever asked that question, I hope, uh, you ask qu, uh, that answers your question and you can also confirm what I'm saying with other OGs from LA. A lot of them can confirm what is Pop-Locking and where it came from. Okay. >> Got it. Nice. Nice. Okay. Uh, I, I like to ask because you mentioned, uh, the Wave Masters, you mentioned Slick Dog and such. Who, what was your relationship with the dancers on the West Coast? Like, were there, did you, you hung around a lot of, like, who did you hang around? Who were you? >> Slick in the 2000s, Slick, me and Slick became best friends and we was, you know, at one time I hung around a lot, you know, I hung around a few. Right now, me and Snap, you know Snap? >> You need to introduce Snap from Snap, Crackle, and Pop. >> Oh, I'm not familiar. No. No. >> Yeah. Snap is '76, '77 popper. >> Okay. >> Triple, triple, triple OG. I can connect you with him. He's busy a lot. But, um, me and him are very tick a lot. That's the boy. That's the homie. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, um, a few others. I don't hang out with because I always traveling. So >> Always traveling. >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm always traveling so I don't get a chance to have me and Wo had a nice relationship. >> Wo, nice. >> Yeah. Um, No Bones Tyrone. I'm mad cool with No Bones and, and quite a few other OGs. I'm mad cool with a lot of OGs on the East Coast also like Al Boogie, >> Clown >> and others, you know, some people I can >> Al Boogie is from the '70s from Boogie. >> Wow. >> Troll Master John. Um, >> Yes. >> Um, Oh, man, you got L Lock, Latron. You got, uh, >> Yeah, you got so many. Oh, you had Ronnie. His name was Fame. He grew, he was in Albu. Oh, man. So many people, bro. >> Okay. Okay. >> But yeah, um, >> These are some of the people I keep in contact with, you know. >> Okay. >> Sometimes I'm on talking to Bubaloo Vic, >> you know. >> All right. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. So you, I'm randomly talking to different OGs a lot during different times. So you know from both coasts, >> East and West Coast. >> So >> Wow. Okay. You also >> You also mentioned, uh, was Baltimore. You spent time in Baltimore. >> Oh, my whole life going and off. Baltimore and New York, mostly like all my life. My mother's from Baltimore. >> What was going on? >> So I'm always in Baltimore. Oh, Baltimore. I know. Baltimore as far as dancing, hip-hop, house. >> Hip. Okay. >> 'Cause when I, when I got, when I got back to Baltimore, popping had already died. >> So when I, when I started going to high school in Baltimore, they were into, um, house. >> Started getting heavily into house and what they call Baltimore Club music. >> Mhm. Okay. >> So, um, yeah, that's my connection. You know, when I went to thousands of clubs, bro, every weekend, the Paradox, Hammerjacks, G-Fries, um, um, um, Odell's, and people, y'all people know DC, Chicago's East Side, Zanzibar, um, um, um, DC Live, uh, um, Triples up in Silver Springs. Now we talking '87, '88, '89. We was partying, bro. >> Wow. >> All over that place. There was, I mean, partying every goddamn weekend. We was partying. My friends was in the house. They was house dancers. I was in hip-hop. And sometimes I would go out there and pop. They be like, "Pop, Fish." And I go out there and pop. People be laughing and [ __ ] you know. He's a really good pop, >> you know. Okay. Okay. >> Even when I would do hip-hop, I would incorporate some popping into it from time to time. >> Wow. You, yeah, you such a blend of styles and sounds, genres, and of different times, East Coast, West Coast. >> It makes sense, you know. >> Yes. >> I was heavily into dancehall in the '80s and early '90s. So, I was always at dancehall parties and and Juv and and and carnivals. To this day, I love to dance. So, I love to pop the dance off. >> So, I'm, it's comfortable for me to pop the dancehall. >> Yes. >> Okay. So h, so

Then you know, back to the 2000s. Now, you said, you know, you're in Times Square, you know, teaching Big Mike, your other students are coming, and you're teaching them. What, what would you say was like the next moment or, or in your journey that was like, like the next step, maybe, or the next highlight, would you say?

From that point on, what you said, what was the next highlight? The next, the next step in your journey where it's like, okay, because I know you said you didn't travel yet, or you went to Montreal, and I know you...

Yeah, I went to Montreal. I was just going back and forth from New York to Montreal at the time. And then in, um, the winter or fall of '08, I came here to Holland.

Holland, right? In '08.

Yeah. I first came over here then, and I, I had left Montreal, New York, but I came over here to, um, in Holland. And, um, uh, when I met the dancers, they didn't know who I was, really. So when I, um, when I went to, uh, a lot of studios in different places and stuff, when I got known over here as a teacher, I was telling them about Montreal. I, no dancer in Montreal was popular yet. None of them. But I already knew.

I was like, "Wait till y'all see my students from Montreal and and Big Mike." And they were like, "Who the hell is Big Mike?" I'm like, "He, he would destroy everything in Europe. Trust me." You know, and they were like, "We don't know." I'm like, "Yeah, he, he don't battle. He's not into that." And, um, let me see. '08, '09, '09, '010 is when Montreal took off.

Green went to LA and tore they ass up.

And Monster Pop and Venom came over here for just the boot.

And people were calling me from just the boot, "Yo Fish, your students are here. They [ __ ] ridiculous. They crazy, man."

Are you serious? And then after that, my name just got really big over here in this part of Holland. And then, uh, in '012, they asked me to judge Josh Boo.

Wow. Okay.

Yeah. Because of Monster and Green and them. They kept asking Monster and Green and them, "Who the hell teach y'all? Who the hell teach y'all this stuff?" They, they kept saying Fish. And they were like, "Where's Fish?" And they were like, "He lives in Holland, right next to Paris." They were like, "Really?" And so, you know, that's how I met Bruce and some other dancers and stuff. Yeah.

Wow. Do, do you, you would say that from what I'm hearing, you've had such successful students, and is teaching something that you just, you just feel passionate about? Or what, what would you say it, it just, again, such successful students you've had from all over the world. What, what do you contribute that to, to that success?

I think, um, now, now, let me, let me rewind this. I never knew I was a dance teacher.

Just didn't. I never knew.

It just happened.

It just happened. And it happened progressively.

You know, because they were, they were just calling me. Everybody in New York was like, "You the baddest [ __ ]. You got to travel." And I'm like, "Travel? Look, I, I have a job. I'm working."

Yeah.

"What are you talking about?" It's like, "No, Fish." So I had a lot of students motivating me. And as they began to, some of them began to travel, they kind of put me out there.

Right. Right.

You know, because my whole intention was never really to teach. It just happened. And so to answer your question is, um, I think a lot of people say I know how to break [ __ ] down.

Mmm.

I'm, you know, I just, and I think because of my, my background of different genres of of music, different, different, I can teach different. I know so many styles of popping and moves, and I'm able to teach a lot of it.

And, um, I'm just, uh, ultra, ultra, ultra, um, ultra, uh, into teaching, bro. I take it very serious, and I'm very hard on some of my students.

Okay.

And the thing about my teaching is, I teach according to people's culture, background, physical makeup. If you're big, have no business trying to scoop over and trying to do Romeo twist.

Okay.

If you're big and long, you should know how to use your torso, your body. You should know how to control your body. So I'm able to teach people to be themselves.

Right.

Very well. And that's my specialty, I believe.

Nice. Right. Because everyone's different. Everyone, all the students you have are different. They all express themselves in their way, like their qualities.

Is that, is that Money B?

Yes. Money B is here too. Yes.

That's my brother.

Love Money. Peace. Money.

Yeah. Um, I, I know there's a, there's a question here. Adrian Lobo, he said, "The next question is a personal one. Uh, and of course, if you want to answer, you, if you don't, you don't have to. Uh, why was he, he said, you were angry at a big popping battle in LA 2009-2010, 'How the West Was Won'? I think Fish was trying to battle some OGs or..."

No, I wasn't trying to battle no OGs. It's a long story, but somebody was supposed to show up and they didn't show up, and I had a little bit too much to drink at that time, and I went crazy. So, that's what happened. Okay.

I wasn't trying to battle no OGs. I was supposed to battle one OG, and I think y'all know who that is because it ended up happening. So, um, yeah, you know, I just got a little bit out of hand that day, and that's what happened. That's all. It was some real [ __ ] excuse my language, some real hood ignorant [ __ ] [ __ ].

Right?

But that was for at that point in time because we was, it was high energy of a confrontational [ __ ] going on at that moment. But we passed that now.

That was what, 2010?

Yeah. That's a good question though. I hope I cleared that fly, clarified that up with with y'all. I was just in battle mode, but I was also in drink mode. I had too much to drink.

I'm just being honest.

I'm just being, I had too much to drink.

You know, and it [ __ ] just got out of hand.

Got you. Got you.

Who said what?

Oh, I see. If you, you figure it out.

You find, you Google, YouTube, Facebook, you research. It's there. You can find.

I love you too, Money B. That's my dogs. Money B. All love over here, bro. San Jose in his aisles, you know. That's my dog. I love Money. Dope ass dances, man.

I like to ask you, Fish, you know, from not traveling to now traveling all over the world, man. Like, I know even I have friends in Taiwan that they've mentioned your name as well. Like, what, what do you think? What is the, what have you learned? What have, what's an, what have you taken away from now seeing different cultures, different countries from before not exploring? Like, what, how has that impacted you?

Can you repeat that question again? So, so from, right, so from not traveling, you know, you were in West Coast, New York, to now going all over the world, Taiwan, the Netherlands, you know, everywhere. How has that impacted you? What have you gained from that experience of exploring the world?

I gained some great friends, so some very, very great friends from all over. Um, culturally, because I'm into cultures, I'm into a lot of conspiracy [ __ ], I'm into a lot of cultural things. I'm into a lot of history. I study a lot of history.

So, that helped me meet Aboriginal people in Taiwan and meeting so many different people, uh, the pygmy people, the Negritos in the Philippines. So, this is not dance with me. I'm just like traveling so much because I love culture. I love history. And that's that's more than the reason why I travel. More than dancing, to be honest with you.

Wow.

Dance is just, a lot of times I'm not even teaching when I'm traveling. I do, I'm a street performer. I street perform.

Okay.

So, you know, I'm a hitter. So, um, that's what we call, um, street performing in New York. We call it hit.

A hit. Okay.

So, I'm a hitter. So, um, yeah. So, um, that's basically it. Everything is not about dancing. It's just that through dances, I, I, I, I try to separate a lot of stuff because I end up gathering a lot of personal friends in a lot of countries. I, like, I got Jet. I know you sure you met Jet in Taiwan. Did you meet Jet?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. So, we're very close. Very close to this day. And, you know, I have a lot of people in different places that I'm very pro. Uh, Crazy Beans in the Philippines. Him and Mother Lima. We're very close. So, I got very, very connected people I'm very close with.

And, uh, yeah.

If I may ask, uh, how do you like living outside of the USA? Do you like...

I don't like. I don't like America. So.

So you're, once I started traveling, I just got, I got fed up with America and all this [ __ ] immediately, and I never wanted to come back if I could. But I had my son. I had to come back for him for a while. As, as he started getting older, once he got older, I'm like, "I'm good." So, I, I haven't traveled in 5 years. So, a lot of new generation don't know me. I just started traveling last year. So, when I came over here, it's a lot of new kids, they don't really know me. A lot of new generation don't even know I go to Popping Forever. A lot of kids don't even know who I am. They know of me, but they don't know who I am. So, it's just like I'm reconnecting with a newer generation.

Right. I see. Okay. Okay. Uh, I like to also, I don't think I asked this, but in the beginning, but where did the name Fish come from?

Oh, in the Bronx, in the mid-late 70s. Uh, a friend of mine's named Anthony Gabon. We were out on the playground, and I'm, I was very athletic. I'm very fast. Not now. I'm an old ass man, an older man, but I was very fast. And and, um, I could, uh, I was a football player. I could cut, I could jump cut real fast. So I'm like, "This [ __ ] face when I run it." And they were like, "It [ __ ] looks like a fish. They look like a fish."

So since about 8 years old, that's always been my nickname, Fish.

Wow. Okay.

Yeah. It was because of the way I ran. And then, you know, this funny flat fish face I would make up. They would say. And then they started calling me Fish.

And it just stuck.

That. I love that. I love that.

That had nothing to do with dancing. That was just a nickname. I, I, you know. Yes.

Okay.

Um, throughout, you know, since your man, so many journeys, so many battles you've done, and, you know, through your life and seen so many dancers. Are there any memorable battles that you like, you're like, your favorite? Like, you've had a favorite exchange or even a battle that you saw? Are there any that really, uh, stuck with you throughout time that, like, a favorite one?

You talking about in my travels? Nah.

Nah.

All right. Nah.

I've seen some, some, some nice, um, battles and confrontations, but nothing actually like really stuck out. Now, if you ask me what dancers were so stuck out, it's been a few.

Okay.

Yeah. Who would be some of those dancers that have stuck out that you've seen?

Uh, Green, of course, when he came out.

Uh, MT Pop. Now, uh, Crazy Beans.

Tempo was incredible.

Tempo.

He was, when he got, when Slick started teaching him, he was incredible. Franic was really good. Is, is really good. And a few other people I really, really like. They stuck out to me. I probably can't think of right now, but it's been a lot of dancers, bro, that never made it in the popping scene. They were the best poppers. I saw a lot of poppers in New York and different places. They just wasn't being accepted because they wasn't booming.

Right. Right.

So, I'm seeing some badass, um, Venom, Green, Tech. What, he say?

Oh, can you talk more about the footwork styles that you taught to Venom and Green Tech? Does he have, do you have a name for this style? How did he, how did you develop it? Any tips to get into it?

Um, some of it I call the Fishoo.

Yeah. I, I just have different versions of my footwork depending on what style I'm doing. See, I can animate footwork at the same time. I can do robot. You'll never see it on video. I don't put it on video.

I can do robotics and footwork at the same time. So my footwork is to connect, to travel, to be able to move and be original and look unique. Um, yes, I have, uh, how did you develop? I developed footwork that was the first dance I ever did in my life was footwork. So footwork comes very, very, very natural to me.

Okay.

I could do footwork, the dancer. I could do footwork, the house, hip-hop, popping, to different genres of music because it's just a natural movement for me.

Um, and that's basically how, how I develop it. But says, "Any tips on how to get into it?" Only tips you're gonna get out of getting into footwork, you have to come train with me.

Well, I mean, who, who else does footwork when they pop?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amen.

Right.

Most of them learned from me, and most of them got [ __ ] from me from my student Kite.

Um, yeah, he learned from my student, and then lied and said, and I'm being honest, he lied and said he, he didn't get it from my student. And I told him, "Well, teach it. Break the [ __ ] down." "Oh, it's crazy legs." I'm like, "That's not crazy legs. P [ __ ] don't look nothing like that, bro."

That's my [ __ ] you're doing. Oh.

That's why you could never. I never taught him. He learned from my student. So, so, uh, he, he can't teach it because he didn't learn directly from me. He only learned a portion, and he took the portion and went to a whole another level with it. [ __ ] phenomenal with it. Don't get me wrong, but

You're doing my [ __ ].

A lot of people from people back then know that. A lot of new people don't know that. And Kai's not as popular as he was back then anyway. But, um, yeah, so anybody you see doing footwork probably came through my line, my lineage.

Right.

Some will will recognize and some won't, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Wow.

Okay. Okay.

Um, let me see.

That's like my, um, how could you say, my, my standout [ __ ].

Yes. Yeah. That's like, you know, like, you know, when you see somebody doing some clean, nice ass footwork, it's nine times out of 10, it came from me, or, or the mindset of it came from one of my students or something if they weren't around me.

Wow. Wow. Well, that's an incredible contribution. Yeah.

It's only one other style of footwork in popping. And you know what that is?

What is that?

That's Pete's crazy legs.

Okay. That's the only other style footwork.

Who you see doing footwork?

Yeah. I'm thinking of. Yeah.

Yeah. It's no, it's nobody doing footwork when they pop on a continuous beat. You might have people that can do some things in a small portion, but I could go all day with footwork. My students can go all day with footwork because I broke foundational stuff down. Can you close that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you can't get around it. And plus, as soon as I see it, I know where you got it, where you got it from, or I know it's mine anyway because I know my foundational ship. So, yeah, the footwork, if you want to learn footwork, you're gonna have to come to me.

Got to go to the source. Okay. Cool. Cool.

Pretty much.

My, my last question, and again, if there's anyone that's watching that you want to...

Anybody got any more questions?

If, yeah, Lobo, reach, Fish, to get there. There is no secret. And tell them, tell them now. Co, is it's nobody that can do that popping foot. And I got new versions of it now.

Yeah, because I never put out my animated footwork [ __ ].

Oh, okay.

I'mma start putting it out now so people can really identify, like, this is unique and it's mine.

Wow.

And I will share. If you, um, respectful and you truly want to learn it, I will share.

Nice.

So, yeah, pretty much. Any questions? Anybody?

So, so while I'm, I'll ask a question, and in the meantime, while I'm asking this question, if there's anything anyone here wants to ask, you know, think about it and write it in the comments. Uh, my question is, uh, moving forward, I mean, now we're in 2025. Where, where, where are you at right now when it comes to your journey with this art?

My journey right now is to try to get people to do productions and get on stage. There is no popping show in the world. Everyone just battling. Popping is not just for battling. Popping is to be on stage. We performed when we were young. We practiced all week long, and we went on stage on the weekends.

Wow.

And it's more money in performing.

Right. Right.

Nobody has a goddamn group putting together choreography, theater, or shows with popping.

Popping is theatrical.

It's the most theatrical [ __ ] that you could ever possibly do. What is wrong with people?

We, we just refuse to get on stage.

Mmm.

I see.

I want to battle. I want to do workshops. I want to do this Dutch solo. I'm like, "Dude, where's your show?" No one has a world show.

No one in the popping world has a show, bro. Nobody.

Wow. Okay.

Think about it. Who has a group that's popping that's doing a show, headlining?

Yeah. See.

This is a problem, man. Yeah.

Like, I, I know, like, there's poppers that will do, like, they'll collaborate with a, a theater modern group, but not something that's only popping.

I have a, I have a theater show.

We're getting, we're trying to get funding for it because we're doing it on our own because if you go through these theater people, they want to control...

Like the oppression of it, right?

Yeah. No, I hired a director, a theater director to go through because I never did theater. He showed me how to stand, how to position myself.

So, yeah. And it's not no popping in the theater show.

It's, it's robotic animation, less dancing than you. It's a, it's theatrical.

Right.

I'm doing a theatrical show.

Okay. So, um,

Um, so I, I'm trying to lead by example to a degree, but I want to see some youthful, some young poppers come up, put the group together for, we need to get on that goddamn. We need to get on that goddamn stage.

This is popping, bro. You got so many, you got so many diamonds, so many [ __ ] you could do with popping, bro. You could do a whole strutting show, a whole robotic show. You can mix it. Glides, popping is huge.

Like the ultimate illusions. So many possibilities.

All right, man. Thanks, Namco. Love you, man. Namco was there in Montreal. He was one of the first ones.

That was, that was there when I came to Montreal. So, he knows the whole story. It's all love for my people. And plus, I'm judging Joe this year. Well, next year. Oh, that, that's a very popular event. That's really talked highly of. Joke that.

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, probably top five biggest event in the world right now.

Wow.

It's a week festival. So, yeah, man. So, yeah, it's, it's going down. So, you know, it's good to see like Monster Pop and Venom get older and come and show me so much love because maybe not at that time, they, they didn't understand what they were getting. And now since they traveled the world and they see, they like, "Wow, they come to me and they be like, 'You really taught us some [ __ ] man.'"

Wow.

"Like, you really put that [ __ ] on us."

Wow. So, you know, y'all, my, my last question, I'd like to ask is, what for people that are watching this video, you know, the current generation and for future generations, what is something you would like to leave them with? What are some words you would like to leave them with?

Be unique, original, and, um, learn life to follow. And please, and please, a group of people, get on that stage. You will represent this dance on a higher level that it hasn't been represented in the last 20, 25 years. We have to get on that stage. I want to see some, some young people put some choreography together. Put together a nice show and headline like billboards. This group is going to be here at this theater, at this place, worldwide. Like, put together a real popping show and take it across the world and represent this culture. So the younger people and other people can see it because right now, we only seeing battles and workshops. Like, really, everybody can't be a teacher.

Right.

But that's where the money's at right now, to be honest with you.

You know, if you want you, if you want to build your name, you build your name. Battle and you go teach. Like, but everyone's not a teacher, bro.

You know, you get on that stage, you can, and you can make plenty of money performing. If you got a good show, you're gonna get, you're gonna make some a good living. A good living. People don't understand that, though. You might have to start a little small and build it up. But you, you'll be fine if you put together a show, man. I want to see not no popping and B-boy show. I want to see a popping show. A popping show. Okay.

Yes. Just poppers like getting it, doing different elements, you know, and I think this is the, um, All right, man. Namco, take care, brother. Um, I think this, anybody got questions before we get off? But I think this is the biggest, um, the biggest thing in popping right now. It needs to get back on that stage because we were on the stage when we were young. We performed, and I'm sure a lot of people from my generation and before can tell you that we performed a lot.

Of a lot. And, and it's still market for, uh, performances for poppers. It's no one's doing it.

No one's doing it.

No one. Most people not even thinking about it.

Right.

So I'm trying to put it in their head like, we don't put together a nice show and represent popping. I think it'll do the culture really, really good.

Yes. Yes. Do you, where do you see the? So, would you say right now in the popping culture, it's just battles? That's like the main, that's the main focus right now in the, the popping world.

Yeah. But bro, pop, you know, popping is dying, right? You know, and then I haven't really reflected on, you know, I mean, if I, when I think about it, I know right now the Red Bull Dance Your Style is a big thing in the all over the world, but that's just, it's more like all-style dancing, all different styles of dance. It's not popping specifically. Um, so you're saying popping is dying?

Oh, no, no, no. Listen, I'm going to break this down to you. There is no popping. No, no popping big communities in Europe. Period. Popping dead all over Europe, bro. A lot of people probably don't realize that. Ain't here. There is no, no popping communities in Europe like that.

It's like, it's, it's like in limbo a little bit. It, it went, it started to go boom, boom. Now it's starting to come up a little, little bit. But in Europe, everyone's running to, uh, China.

China. What's going on in China? The money. Oh, okay. Pop is dead in Asia.

It's dead in Asia.

Completely dead, bro.

I thought that's where like the, it was the most, no electric.

Only thing, only thing popping going on in a, in Asia is China, bro. And, and the little, in the little pockets that they have in, in Korea, a little bit. Japan's dead. All of Southeast Asia is dead. All of Eastern Europe is dead. All of Western Europe is dead. You know, it's interesting, even I, it seems like in the West Coast as well, there, there are events, of course, but it's not how it was in the 2000s. It's not at that level.

You, you, you got more animating, animation events coming up now and waving events in, in, in, in Europe then you got, uh, just popping or something, you know, all styles. Like now, now, Popping Forever, it did have 300 poppers this year.

Okay. Popping Forever.

Yeah. But, um, maybe about, it was about 240, 250 last year. So, another extra 50 poppers, but like a small percentage of them came from the US.

I see.

About 15 poppers came from the US this year.

Wow.

Yeah. Which was really strange because we never had. And so I, I, I give a shout out to Breezley and Wifey [ __ ] and, um, Sweet Pea, Son, Ammani, all of them came out to represent. And J-Rock, peace to J-Rock, all of them came out to represent, um, um, the US. So, and they, they got a platform of young poppers coming up. So I'm so happy.

Right.

That somebody's like grooming these poppers and, and, uh, you know, the US get a chance to rep some [ __ ]. But yeah, popping dead, bro.

Wow.

People don't know it because they see all this [ __ ] on the internet, but it's no popping communities in Europe like last big pop community they had in Europe was in Poland, bro.

Poland. What was, what's going on in Poland or what was...

Well, they was doing all these camps and stuff.

Okay.

And everything, but that kind of died out because they didn't want to diversify, in my opinion.

Interesting.

They wanted to keep it to whatever. And then they ran out of dancers, bro.

Wow. That's crazy.

See, you know, if you just in this category, you got this certain group of people, then after five, six, seven, eight, 10 years. My sister's right here. She's from Poland.

She knows what's going on. Yeah.

Wow.

Mhm.

She, uh, I met her when she, when I first came to Holland. We've been best friends ever since.

Wow.

But she's from, she's, um, from Poland. Yeah.

Okay.

You know all the dancers in Poland.

Huh?

But yeah. Um, yeah. True. So it's no community of popping in Europe.

Wow.

Oh, yeah. Belgium ain't got nothing. Holland. Um, France.

What about Paris? It's like, you know, the Nelson.

You didn't hear me. That was the third one. I said France. They all ran. They all ran to China.

Oh, right, right, right.

Wow.

Everybody ran to China. Remember, if you remember like eight, nine years ago before the pandemic, all them battles they was having in Singapore.

Yeah. Yeah. That was right.

That.

They're done with Asia. It's because most of Southeast Asia, they don't have the money to, you know, Singapore is rich. They got money in Singapore.

Yeah. And China got penny paper. Japan, they just don't know where they going at right now. This is because they had it first. So they just like, uh, Korea.

So right now, everyone's running through, running through China. Once that dries up, I don't know when pop is going to be at in the next 5 years. I ain't even saying 10 years. I don't know where pop is going to be at in the next five years.

Do you think because now there's more waving and animation, there's becoming more specific like sty, like, uh, specific styles coming out? Do you think maybe that's going to be the next thing? Like just more animation?

I think so. That's already, that's already seemed to be the route that is going.

Because in East, Eastern Germany, they got, uh, big waving communities and stuff. They told me.

Right.

And then, uh, you know, Blondie is doing his, um, animation.

Um, yeah, Blondie. And that's a good friend of mine too. I love. Me and Blondie are real tight.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. It's my boy. So, yeah. Um, you know, so, yeah, I see that. But did you, did you see the interview with Pete and, um, King Mike?

I saw parts of it on Instagram. But what part specifically? They, they specifically spoke about, uh, Pete says that they, they, they, uh, not, uh, they don't invite him to judge, uh, these other styles, but they invite other styles to come and judge next to him.

So this is what's, this is what's going on right now. You know.

This is what's going on.

So, um, he, because he was saying that, you know, he's, he's the, you know, popper. He's a popper, and he judges popping events. But then there's people that are judging popping events that do waving and animation, but he doesn't judge waving or animation events. Well, the reason why is because, to be honest with you, all of it, popping. We always called all that [ __ ] popping. We never separated the dance. If I came out and I animated, you came out, you had the best waves, who wasn't the [ __ ] that had the best moves?

Okay. Okay.

We never separated the dance, bro. The dance was never separated until 1998.

That's about specific. That's that's a specific time.

Yeah. That's when they, that's when they started going into separating. You have to pop, you must do this, you must do that, you must do that. When we all, when we all grew up, and we didn't give a [ __ ] what style you did. If somebody, if you got smoke, you got smoke.

Right.

If somebody [ __ ] came up there, King Tutting on your ass, boom. And you couldn't answer.

Right. It's touch. Pete, bro. This is what it is. It's touch.

So, in, in a sense, it sounds like it kind of backfired by trying to make it very, "This is popping." Now it's like, well, yeah, now you can't go to waving and tutting and animation because you said this is it. So...

Yeah.

You can't, like...

If you, if it was kept popping as all of the movements that came from it, then it would have been able to...

And let everybody just like, look, whoever's clean, good, and better at that round. See, we judge the moment.

When we judging battles, we judge the moment.

Mmm.

What I mean by, we judge the moment. If that [ __ ] came out with some bad ass touch, and you couldn't answer, you lost that battle, bro.

You know, so sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't.

Yeah.

Yeah. He said, and it's, it's caused a lot of confus. Yes. Has caused a lot of confusion because you got a lot of people from these places that don't understand the dynamics of the collective or the individual of the styles.

So you have what you do transitions. So if I robot into a puppet, from a puppet into a wave, from a wave into a twist flex, I just transition four different styles and moves.

You see? So now if you know how to transition from move to move and style to style, if you were taught that way, then you could go into these, these, these forms of dance or popping.

Mhm.

But if you're just taught to do this and just taught to do that.

Right.

And another thing, back in the days, poppers had specialties. This, which is why you had puppet master, tut master.

King. So these are specific styles, people, uh, uh, specialties. Your name representing what you did. I'm hit master. I'm a hitting master. That's that's not all I do.

Right.

But that's a representation of what I'm, what, what I'm trying to represent. So we had specialties back in the days, you know.

Yeah. So any more questions? Anybody?

Any, any last questions? This is the moment. Let's see. Anybody, any, any takers? If, Oh, no. Going once, going twice. Adrien Lobo, anything? I know you were asking some questions today. Anything from yourself?

That's the first interview I did in a long time. I was supposed to do Cool Boys, but we could never connect.

Okay. Oh, we got some questions. Someone asked, "How should a popping community be?" That's a very, I don't, how would you want to answer that, Fish?

Say that again. Huh?

Someone asked, "How should a popping community be?"

Sounds very. That depends on the culture and, and, and, and where you're located because different cultures do things different, you know. That's all the depending on where you at and when you look because it's, it's, it's all according to how people come together to represent popping. It's all, you know, how y'all gonna come together and connect and build.

That's that's what it's about.

Got it. Connecting and building together. Okay.

Right. Yes.

So, Fish, do you think USA has the best? So this was the same question that was asked to Pete by King Mike. One of them, besides the one I was just talking about, which is a very interesting question. Are the best poppers? First of all, they do not pop in America. Let's, let's get it, let's clarify that and get it clear.

Oh.

As a whole, as a whole, there are no poppers in America. You have pockets of poppers in America. You understand? But as a whole, America is a big ass country. Okay. Lots of states and cities and [ __ ].

So then popping is not, um, a popular dance in America for almost 40 years now. And let me tell you why. This is, this was the question that was not answered, and how you could answer the question. Europe and Asia and the world, there's some deep [ __ ] I'm about to say to y'all. They look at popping as a dance, as dancing. Americans, non-dancing Americans, they look at popping as an illusion.

And let me tell you why they look at popping as an illusion. We never tried to dance when we were popping when we was young. Number one. Number two, when the world saw Michael Jackson doing this [ __ ], what was he doing? The moonwalk, backsliding, the back...

The round moonwalk. He was, you know, when the world saw Taco and Breaking Shrimp and Breaking, what were they doing? Adam, Aiden, waving. Was nobody trying to dance, bro.

So when Americans, and I talked to a lot of Americans, and I showed them videos of, they were like, "What the [ __ ] is they doing?" Because they do not see popping as a dance. They see it as an illusion.

[Music]

And this is the biggest gap that we have.

Wow.

Europe and Asia was told popping was a dance. You have to dance. You have to dance. Okay. If you have to dance, teach them how to dance because a lot of these people don't know how to dance. And they look goofy to me trying to dance. I can clearly see you're not a dancer, but you're trying to groove and dance and accomplish something that ain't comfortable to you. You're supposed to be comfortable when you're popping. You must be able to fit in who and what you are.

And this is what you don't see. The reason why I know all this, I know how Americans think and I know how foreigners think and how the art was given to them. It was given to them as a dance. You have to dance. You have to groove. Think about it. Everyone's I trying to dance. I'm trying to groove. America's Marcus don't see popping like that. Frantic, Slim Boogie. What? Slim Boogie dances. Fr. A lot of poppers trying to dance, bro. They're not dancers. They're not into dancing.

You know, I street perform in America.

And my son, he hates popping. And my son can dance his ass off. He thinks, my son thinks popping is a joke. The black young kids in America think popping is a joke, bro. Whether y'all know it or not. What they do with popping? They take moves. The bone breakers took moves. The jukers took moves. The turfers took moves. The crumpers took moves. Everyone takes different moves from pocket.

They don't want to straight up dance and pop. They don't. They not into that. So I hope that answers your question and opens your mind on a level how they think in Asia. I mean, in in in overseas and how we think as Americans because that's how we...

Huh? Go ahead. I'm sorry.

So over, over, so if I'm getting this, overseas sees popping as a dance. In the USA, it's not seen as a dance, but more of an illusion.

Yes. And then, so then when it comes to the actual, when it comes to the dance style, overseas has better, higher level poppers than USA.

Yes. Because they do it. They into it. They trying to learn it. They into it. They not, they ain't. The average American that dances ain't into, don't know [ __ ] about popping, bro. They know how to do a wave, how to do some tuts and stuff. But if you ask them what popping came from, what's this? What's that? My son performs with Tick, a lot. Snap. My son performs with OGs. He do not like popping. He likes when I do stuff, but a little bit of stuff. And my son never really seen me pop. He just seen some videos because I don't really pop when I'm around him like that. And I don't take him to battles and stuff.

So, you know, my son's a Baltimore club dancer and a hip-hop dancer.

That's what he's into. He's 25 years old, so he's not a little kid.

Right. Right.

You know, uh, so, um, a lot of, um, inner-city kids, they, they would never be into popping ever.

It's, it doesn't intrigue them. Popping intrigues, um, foreigners than it intrigues us. We're not intrigued by popping anymore.

Wow. Okay. So, wait, was popping ever a dance in the USA, or it just changed to illusions?

Nah, we had people that did some form of dancing when they popped. Now, see, when I, when I, let me be more specific. Let's talk about more. I'm more South Central.

Mhm.

Most of the styles and moves was in South Central was based off of styles and moves, how to execute them.

Mhm.

So when you watch Taco, what did you see?

Right. The cobra, he would, right, the snaking wave.

When you watch Shrimp, what did you see?

Right. His like animated movement, right?

When you watch Breaking and Entering, what was the Domino doing?

They was doing their routines.

Yeah. It was dancing a little bit, but because it was a routine. But when they bust off solo, they was doing they, they was into the Bugaloo was more dancier. Jazzy and his crew and others, they were more dancier with with the movement. But

In those days, that that style was not that popular.

Right.

Which is why you don't see any OGs that Bugaloo.

[Music]

Right. Right. Wow.

So, yeah. So I, I get, I try to get people to think like, look at it from both sides. Like in America, our way of thinking, and especially from the two, so you have a resurgence of popping from '98 all the way up to now. See, now in the early 2000s, there were no black people popping.

Wow. Okay. You, you, you can count them on one hand. Popular, Legend, Tempo, and one or two others.

Right. It was mostly, yeah, predominantly like a, like Asian, European when it came to the whole world, right?

There was no. Look at all my students. Monster Pop, Venom, Green, Big Mike, the whole Atomic Hitters, all black. There was on the East Coast. I started to spark the movement. Black Buddha Stretch came to me and said, "Fish, there's no black people popping." And I said, "I got, I said, I got a bunch of black people popping." And I started. He was like, "Wow, I want to be down. Let's be down."

So, yeah.

Wow. Okay.

So you, you see what I'm saying? You got to start thinking about things like this. How did it get to this point in America?

America was never, America was never genuinely interested in popping in the 2000s. There's this pocket. You know, you have P, you know, pockets of people that got interested or or or or saw it and got into it and come to a group, right, or or or whatever, and then it just built from there. Such as like Popular, J-Rock, and all these people, they started coming in, right? And, you know, people started pulling in from different places, you know, and started going to LA, and then later on, New York started getting popular with the popping and different things. But nah, bro. There was no, um, America never had. See, if, if America, if the inner cities in America went back into popping, then it would blow up.

Then it would become a dance. People would want to be doing it.

Yes. They just not interested in it.

They're not interested. Yeah.

Collectively, you have certain people or certain things, but they collectively, they're not interested in it, no damn.

Wow. Yeah. So this is the, man, this is very fascinating, this perspective, like what you just mentioned, how overseas sees the dance, sees it as a dance. USA doesn't see it as a dance. Um, what are other differences that you've noticed or found out how overseas views popping versus USA? Are there any other things that you've noticed of the difference of looking at it and going about the dance?

Uh, not really.

Culturally, yeah, depending on what part of the world you were, like I said, but it's just that, uh, uh, uh, overseas people just been told, "Just dance, dance, dance, dance, dance."

And they never got the other aspects of it until recently in the last 12, 13 years. They started seeing more and more animation and and and robotic movement. They started tailoring it to that. A lot of newer people and some of the people from back then started getting more into a lot of, uh, uh, robotic and animation styles. Um, and now it's, it's getting more and more popular.

Um, that's about it. I don't see much.

Because they just got thrust like it's a dance, it's a dance, you must dance. And a certain [ __ ] wasn't broken down, and they only understand one pocket of it. Up until social media started getting big. Then they started seeing string.

Right. Right.

You know, and they started seeing a bigger broad, you know, poppers picnic, the OGs, anim, I mean, uh, uh, um, Flattop and Minneapolis people. They start recognizing, "Oh, okay, now we can see that these are the diverse styles of popping," and it was a very diverse dance. But by that time, it was too late.

Right.

Because they already have, they already flooded overseas in their head that you got to dance. And to this day, they think it's a full-blown dance. And when I tell some people that, they look at me, they like, "Oh, shit." And then, but then I have to sit and explain it to them.

And they really understand like, "Oh, we never thought of it that way." I'm like, "Yeah, look at the dance. Go back and watch all the video. Why nobody trying to dance?" [ __ ] was moonwalking, gliding characters, imagination.

"Yeah." "Pantomime, robot." "Yeah." "It was like we was characters. We was Terminators. We were all types of [ __ ]."

"Yeah." "Yeah." "Yeah." Then in the 2000s, I come back, everybody over here shaking their ass. I'm like, "What the hell? That ain't popping, bro. [Music] Y'all over there shaking your ass like y'all really can dance. Can you really dance?"

Like, "Y'all can, y'all, okay, go get a girl."

"Right." "Right."

"Let me see you dance with a girl." And then I tell him, "Okay, let me see you pop dance with the girl. How you going to pop with move?" Then I show, then I show them the dance called the pop, how to socialize it to dance with a girl. And they looking at me like, "You're really popping with a girl?" Like, "Yeah."

"Right." "Wow." "Okay." "Wow."

So, yeah, it's, it's, it's it becomes like I said, that was that's from my beginning origins and my dancing origins. I'm able to groove and and by the way, when I pop, y'all, I don't groove. I'm not into no grooving [ __ ]. And don't call my [ __ ] groove.

"Oh."

"My [ __ ] is not groove. My [ __ ] is funk."

"Funk."

"Oh."

"My [ __ ] is funk. I'm not into no goddamn grooving. I do not want to groove. 'Cause I'm dance when I pop. So a lot of people like, 'Oh, you, you, you so groove. You groove. Your groove is crazy.' No, my groove ain't crazy. I don't know nothing about no popping being no groove."

"I know dancing is being groove. I don't know nothing about no. I know funk."

"That's what we call popping funk when you dancing, you into the rhythm and all into that bass, that bass, and you all into the funk."

"Wow."

"Like it's here. That funk is here. You feel it when that bass, if you listen to that bass, you're going to feel that [ __ ] funk and it just takes over your whole vibration of your body 'cause that's why I love funk music."

"And it's my favorite music."

"Because I can feel it, I can taste it, I can smell it."

"You know."

"Is pop is pop essential for popping? What do you mean by that?"

"Oh, yeah. So I guess he's talking about hitting."

"Right." "I, that's what I'm going to guess."

"I would say, 'Yes, the harder you hit, the better the dance looks.'"

[Music]

"Because popping was meant to be a hard, edgy, hitting style of the dance. You know, like I said, everyone was told, 'You have to groove. You must dance.' You know. It's cool, man. I just want people to understand the dynamics of the um, the dance, you know, to understand it. It's not about just, 'I'm dancing. I must dance and do that.'"

"And another thing I forgot to tell you, this in Asia, particularly in China and in Korea, try. Okay. The Chinese government street dance is, it's, it's athletics."

"Oh, okay."

"That's why they giving them money."

"Why?"

"Because."

"Wow, that's great." "Wow." "Okay."

"Because they want them to uh do athletics and they look at street dancers athletic, which is why you see, which is why you see the the Asians dance so fast. They move so [ __ ] fast because everything is athletic to them."

"Like who can go the fastest, who can hit the hard, who can go the most."

"Who can do whatever they do at a at a high tempo fast and still be on beat or whatever. And that's just that's the way they view pocket, bro. Man. Yeah, we the USA does, I mean, to my knowledge, it is not viewed like that at all. So."

"We're Americans, so we should know that much. We don't look at it like that. And uh, you know, especially, I'm not even talking about us, your generation or my generation, a lot of the younger people."

"Cuz over the last 25 years, you had generations and generations coming in with popping and."

"Mhm."

"Just that Americans just never got back into it like that. As a whole. Like I said, you got your pockets and you, you know, you had very good poppers. They came out of America. Excellent poppers, but um, it's too far in between. As big as that country is, you know, America should have way more poppers in it than it does."

"Right." "Especially it coming from America. Especially coming from."

"But."

"Well, one of the biggest reasons is we don't have funk music anymore. So funk just complimented popping for some reason, you know."

"Right." "Right."

"Because when we were hit, the hit was to accent the beat, the the the the snare or the baseline or whatever. We was accenting 'cause we grew up off funk and then later on electro. So yeah."

"Right." "Wow." "Well, man, wolf fish. I mean, I think let's see. Yeah. Someone said, 'Yeah, street dance in China is more like a sport.' Yeah. So confirming that."

"Oh, the re, you know how I, you know how I found out that through Jet. Jet works for the Chinese government."

"And he told me they look at that's why they giving them all the money because it's a part of athletics now."

"Wow." "Wow."

"Yeah."

"So."

"Yeah." "Yeah."

"So and and and they move so athletic when they dance. They be gone."

"Right." "Right." "Right."

"They be gone. I'll be like, 'Goddamn. What's this kid?' Jin. You seen this kid? Jin."

"Jin."

"From Korean. J I N. Jin."

"Yes. Crazy legs. His legs are crazy. The way."

"That boy, he jumping all around me like, you see what I'm saying? They just athletic and they just they going with it."

"You've heard of. You've seen Crazy Duck."

"Oh man, I've seen Crazy Duck. Did you see Crazy Duck when he was in the studio? He ran in the studio so to the mirrors in the studio but under the mir, the mirrors but it wasn't no mirrors all the way down to the ground."

"Okay."

"So it was like about that much space. He ran kicked off went back off the off the wall and turned around and did some crazy like this [ __ ]."

"He told me."

"Yeah, I know crazy stuff. Okay."

"They crazy, man."

"Yeah." "Yeah."

"Even even hoing and hosing them when they pop to me, they just do they be gone, man. And all the um Koreans, they just like, 'Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, man. Goddamn.'"

"It's like."

"Slow the [ __ ] down, you know. But you."

"Right." "Right."

"That's the way that's the way they move, man. I mean, I like a lot of [ __ ] they do, but they just don't."

"You know."

"They just don't really really get the gist of popping. And I get it, you know. I get it."

"Wow."

"I think I think they highly skilled and very talented people. They just need to know really really learn the foundation of popping, which they don't. They think they do, but they don't have it. And you know, hopefully one day some of them can come to the terms. But a lot of the newer generation in Korea, legal struting, robotics. So I see a change now. Right."

"Wow."

"Well, man, Fish, I want to, you know, I thank you again for this time."

"You know, this such knowledge, such gold information that you just spoke on and I'm excited for people to watch this over and reference this video as well for the future."

"I'm I'm sure they do. And everyone that watched the video, if you uh disagree or anything or have questions, just inbox me or we can have a chat 'cause I'm here for everyone. And you know, it's just um one to grow on. Everyone can just learn and we can just come together and put our minds together and come to an understanding of what this dance is and what does it really represent."

"Yes." "Yes." "And and Lobo, yes. Thank you for the questions that you were asking today. Lobo says, 'Thank you, Fish, for sharing all this priceless info and thank you, Jay, for doing hosting this.'"

"I'm glad this is out there now because uh Mike and I are supposed to do an interview because I had um sent him a message about the interview he did with Pete, which was a wonderful interview. It's no disrespect to Peter. I'm just trying to give a different perspective of how Americans look at the dance from me being in America a lot and from me traveling overseas and connecting the two and that that was just my perspective on it. So I hopefully everyone understanding what I was saying. If not, like I said, just inbox me and we can talk."

"Yes, conversations. Got to have conversations. So."

"Yes."

"All right, Fish. Well, have a great rest of your night, man. And yeah, man. It was a pleasure."

"Thank you. Oh, and one more thing people when you watch it, you know, it's all love and let's all have come together and have a great time and I hope to see some of you guys soon. Thank you."

"Yes." "Yes." "Take care, Fish."

"All right, man. Have a great one. Peace."

"You, too. Crazy."