Transcription
I'll typically do a keto brick a day, so it's 90-g of fat there. Um and then I'll have a lot more butter or duck fat or ghee or some fat source, you know, from that, olive oil, avocado oil. And then I'll opt for a fattier ground beef, like an 80/20 or a 75/25 or something of that nature. And then as my protein increases and my fat drops, I'll swap that 75/25 out for an 80/20 or an 85/15 or something like that.
Um >> So, when I first even discovered like the ketogenic diet, which was still way later than a lot of people, but >> [clears throat] >> the goal was we got to get in ketosis cuz that's where the magic happens. Should people be concerned with like, "Oh, no, my ketone levels are this or that and I'm not no longer in ketosis. So, I what's the point now?" Should ketosis be the goal?
>> No, you don't have to obsess about the ketone numbers. I mean, if you're eating lower carbohydrates, higher fat, moderate protein, like you're going to have likely more circulating blood ketones, but not having excessive carbohydrate and sugar consumption and processed foods and cereals, you're going to have less inflammation, you're going to have more insulin sensitivity. Like all those benefits will come to some degree even if you're not registering high on the ketone stick, you know.
>> Yeah. Carbs under approximately how much? Under like 30 I mean, cuz carbohydrates just sort of pop up in everything and some people are going to probably want to eat some vegetables and stuff. So, what where's your recommendation on carbohydrates?
>> I mean, I keep mine less than 20 total typically with the foods I eat pretty effortlessly. A lot of people, you know, if they're at less than 50, they'd be totally fine. And I could consume more and I my body would burn it up based off of my activity and there'd be no issue necessarily, but most people don't need nearly as many carbs as they're consuming. I mean, you don't need carb up before you fold the laundry, you know. People are doing all these crazy things and it's like you don't need that. Your body doesn't need that, you know.
>> It's a lot of laundry though. >> [laughter] >> You don't know. And then just so we're kind of like and just painting a picture of like where the macros should land cuz I know that you track yours and you've helped a lot of other people with tracking theirs to get great results with their physique. Um where should the protein be-ish and where should the fats be?
>> Kind of depends on the goal like all all change mine quite a bit depending on where I'm at in a fat loss or muscle building phase. Most people would benefit from starting at a higher fat ratio as high as like 80% get those metabolic pathways in place then they can kind of titrate the protein up and the fat down to find their sweet spot. A good you know one to one in grams of fat to protein works pretty well for most people. Um and then again depending on what the goal is you can kind of finesse that as needed but a lot of people don't start the diet with enough dietary fat. They remove the carbs so that the energy from that is gone. They don't replace that with dietary fat so they're hoping that's just going to you know tap into their stored fat right off the bat but they don't have any energy coming in until those metabolic pathways get put in place. They feel miserable. They deviate from the diet and they're back at square one.
>> And one to one protein to fats with this tiny amount of carbohydrates in there probably is what like 55 60%?
>> It's like 69 68 69 70.
>> Of your calories are coming from protein?
>> No that that's from fat. So when you're at one to one you're at about a 68% fat.
>> I see.
>> 68 to 70 depending on how many carbs you're consuming.
>> And then when you get leaner though you start to hedge towards almost like a two to one protein to fat or
>> So I've got my seven phase protocol so I'll start with a higher fat you know 80% fat and then I'll titrate that down while simultaneously bringing my protein up until I find my protein threshold. For me that's around 200 220 grams of protein and then I'll start dropping both dietary fat and protein so overall calories are continuing to drop and then towards the latter half of my prep I'll start throwing in ketogenic caloric refeeds. Those will typically be 30 to 50% calories above baseline and at that point I'm at a higher fat ratio normally 70 to 75% sometimes it's even high as 80 depending on how my body's looking getting up close to a show day.
>> I see. So it changes a lot based off of, you know, how my body's functioning. I want to optimize my performance that I'm recovering well and I'm able to preserve the muscle that I've got to because when you're dieting down, you know, you're going to be depleted. So, preserving the lean tissue you've got is going to help keep that metabolism, you know, functioning at a higher rate and you're just going to feel better. Like you're going to have more energy.
>> Is it kind of almost safe to say like your your protein um in certain parts of the prep might be 180 to kind of match your body weight or 170 um and your uh fats might be like 100 and then on the days when you are refeeding, that's sort of flipped. It's like 200 g of, you know, something like that.
>> I'll actually drop my protein quite a bit more than that. Like it'll get as high as 220 when I'm figuring out what that protein threshold is, but my first ketogenic prep, I took my protein as low as 65 g a day, which is pretty low and that was for a very acute period of time. I don't recommend that, but what I what I was shocked by was that I didn't really lose any strength or lean tissue when I was at that super low consumption. I don't go near that low now because I can, you know, manipulate my macros differently and not need to go that low. But, it's amazing how low you can go for a finite period of time without really noticing any adverse effects from a muscle loss standpoint.
>> Do you ever concern yourself with like the what's it called the thermic
>> Thermic effect of food?
>> Yeah, when it comes to the protein of [clears throat] of things, right?
>> Yeah, so protein has a higher thermic effect of food than carbs and fat, obviously. So, some people think if you're consuming more protein, you're going to be burning more calories to metabolize that protein.
>> I'm one of those people, by the way.
>> Yeah. If you look at it and actually Lane Norton talks about this quite well. I mean, there's different points of opinion on him. Um but when you look at the actual increase in caloric expenditure from the thermic effect of food, even if you quadruple your protein, that's not going to result in that many more calories burned. So, I don't really use that as a variable that I'm manipulating.
>> It's just going to be a small amount, like yeah.
>> Small. Like you don't want that to be the main lever you're pulling.
>> Yeah, if you're eating like an extra, you know, 200 g of protein, it's not like you're burning an extra 500 calories.
>> Yeah, and if you're eating that much Like if you only got so many calories to work with and you want it to If you're going really heavy-handed on the protein, that's obviously going to mean your fat is going to be lower, but that's where you're getting your energy from. So, if your energy's tanking, your performance is going to tank. So, you're going to lose more lean tissue and the protein's going to lead to more inflammation and you're just not going to feel as well. So, I don't typically go too high.
>> Yeah, I think a really good point here is that protein is not a great energy source, not at all. It's not normally. I mean, I guess if you took your protein super low for a long time, like you'd probably feel bad, maybe lose muscle mass and so forth, but um protein is kind of almost like a thing that um it it's not a great energy source. The fats are the great energy source and and sounds like because you don't manipulate carbohydrates cuz you don't really eat them, uh you mainly manipulate the fats and it sounds like you also would manipulate the fats with the protein because the fats are protein sparing, especially when you start to get in more of a ketotic state, the more ketogenic that you are. And that's probably part of your experiment of going way down at 65 g of protein. Um you probably can eat 90 g of protein and and 70 g of protein and probably still hold on to quite a bit of muscle mass cuz you got some circulating ketones going.
>> Yeah, I mean, now like my last prep, I think I got down to like 115, 120 g of protein for that last couple weeks, but that's in the context of also having a ketogenic refeed once a week. So, that's going to have a bolus of protein there. So, at that
>> Might even out, yeah.
>> Yeah, so at that intake, I didn't notice any muscle loss at all.
>> So, to to simplify things for me and potentially the other guy that's listening right now that just can't keep track of all the percentages you guys just laid out. Um for someone like me, I like to, you know, keep it simple. Like, okay, 1 g of protein per pound of body weight. Like, that seems pretty straightforward. Is there a ratio like that for fat? Then And then we can also take, okay, 1 g of fat to 1 g of protein like 1:1 ratio. Is there something there where like I'm 180 lb, how much fat should I be consuming and then can I just roll that over and say that's also how many grams of protein I should be consuming?
>> I don't really ever recommend like a set it and forget it ratio because as you lean out, your hormones level change, your energy demands change, like everything changes. So, I like to manipulate my macros to kind of follow suit with and stay ahead of it. So, I'll typically start at about a 2:1 ratio if you have a healthy, you know, maintenance caloric intake at the onset to begin with and then from there it kind of becomes more of a 1:1 and then I start dropping protein and fat simultaneously. Usually protein a little bit more aggressively than the fat. So, I'm typically operating between about 70 and 80% of my calories coming from fat throughout the entirety of my fat loss phase, just depending on where I'm at in that fat loss phase.
>> Okay. And sorry, Mark. Because for for me it's really easy to get the protein pretty high and the fats pretty moderate. You know, just consuming a lot of Piedmontese beef, you know, like the the bavette steak, 100 g of protein, 16 g of fat for the entire steak. It's freaking perfect. What does it look like to go 2:1 to protein though? Because like in my head I'm like, dude, I don't even know what I would eat at that point.
>> Yeah, when you're at 80% fat ratio, you got to get a little creative, but you're not staying there for long, so you don't have to, you know, do anything crazy for long, but I'll typically do a keto brick a day. It's 90 g of fat there. And then I'll have a lot more butter or duck fat or ghee or some fat source, you know, from that, olive oil, avocado oil. And then I'll opt for a fattier ground beef like an 80/20 or 75/25 or something of that nature. And then as my protein increases and my fat drops, I'll swap that 75/25 out for an 80/20 or an 85/15 or something like that.
>> And I think, you know, there's some obvious things to do here as well. Like you can cook stuff with you mentioned duck duck fat you got tallow and maybe some coconut oil. I don't really love cooking stuff in like oil but I will utilize some tallow here and there. But if you you know basically if you cook up some eggs and you cook them in like a little bit of tallow or a little bit of coconut oil and then you throw some butter on them. Now you're you know in a pretty good ratio. Eggs are usually one to one usually 6 grams of protein and 6 grams of fat depending on the size of the egg. I think one to one is a really nice ratio to just kind of have in the back of your head just just as a convenience thing because it's it's [clears throat] easy to see and like when you're talking about and it's easy to think about like all right weigh 180 so 180 grams of fat 180 grams of protein but if I want to consider more of what Robert's talking about maybe I want those fats to be a little higher for energy purposes so I feel good on the mats so I feel good with my Jiu-Jitsu and so maybe just especially cuz you're not familiar with that much fat you know be cautious of otherwise you're going to have disaster pants. Yeah you don't want that on the on the mats and we don't want to add a bunch of oil and stuff you want to try to add things that are like more natty. You probably don't really use like butters and stuff like peanut butters and almond butter and things like that but I suppose you could you could eat some almonds and walnuts and things like that right?
>> Yeah I'll do that on occasion. I'm kind of doing like a meat and bricks only diet right now but I'll sometimes have the almond butter. One of my clients sent me this jar of this coconut coconut peanut butter from Hawaii and man that it's just dangerous to have those in the house man cuz I could eat like the whole thing it's like 1 gram of carb per serving where is most peanut butter is like 6 or 7 so I could just crash that whole jar pretty effortlessly so I got to kind of moderate that.
>> My brother's girlfriend had a really genius idea the other day. She said a peanut butter tallow.
>> Oh yeah it's coming it's coming.
>> Peanut butter and tallow. I know you're making the the bars, all the different bars, but I'm like peanut butter and tallow like in the in a little bucket.
>> Yeah.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah, peanut butter is like a kryptonite, man. I could just go down on that.
>> I know. I don't know why I don't know why peanut butter is ever like a diet food. Yeah. You know, like it's in people's prep. It's like, are you crazy?
>> Yeah.
>> Like that's that sounds like madness. I would say it's a
>> Satiating, you know, it's not satiating. It's hyperpalatable. I mean, you can just eat it in excess and it's not really natural. I mean, you don't really find that in nature, so to speak. Um so yeah, you can just get a lot of calories without much satiety from it, so probably not the best thing for a diet.
>> Keto brick goes a long way.
>> Yeah, well, I did in terms of adding the fats.
>> I just crushed one right now. That's the first one I had in one sitting. It was the the new one that you guys collabed on and I that dude, that was incredible. 1,000 calories with like 86 g of fat. That's the most I've had in one sitting.
>> I know your stomach sometimes is a little bit here and there, but I'm interested to learn more about what happens later on tonight.
>> As well. Yeah.
>> It's going to be in 2 hours if you're doing it right.
>> Sounds good. Um