Transcription
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I know their colors. I know what their favorite color is, what their favorite food is, how they speak, what their dog's name is, their cat name is. I know their nicknames. I know everything cuz I've already done a a deep dive.
"Okay, so they're going to be at this outlet. I'm going to wear my flip-flops. I'm going to wear little sunglasses and I'm going to go in here and I'm going to sell cookies and I'm going to get a hold of this person, my main subject, and I'm going to have a I'm going to have a talk with them." Wired called her the world's best bounty hunter. She's a skip tracer and private investigator who has spent more than two decades finding people who do not want to be found. Taking on cases that other investigators, collection agencies, and even law enforcement have already given up on. Michelle Gomez, welcome to the Hidden Third. I am so happy to have you here. We've been talking for so long now, right?
"Yeah, thank you very much for having me on your show. It's is it's an honor."
"Oh, it's the honor to finally meet you."
"Oh, mine. Wait, so let's give our guest first of all and I how we first started communicating and it was because of this case that you were investigating a few years ago. Uh I got a an email from this person called Mark. I'm not going to give his last name, but Mark saying that he had been scammed. I got a lot I get a lot of people contacting me, scam victims contacting me um almost on a daily basis. But this one sounded a little different because he had lost almost a million dollars. He'd been swindled by what I then when I started looking into the story, what we then started calling the prince of San Antonio because we found out that"
"the prince of Dubai"
"the prince of Dubai but who had then moved to San Antonio and he's swindling a lot of people in San Antonio, Texas. right?"
"All over my head. Yeah. I mean Yeah."
"Um and uh and we started looking into this case and trying to figure out if we could tell that story. But then while we were researching the story, we realized that there's one person that's sort of at the center of all the scams. And that's you. Not as the scammer, but as the person who's who's been investigating this guy and who sort of knows all the scams that he's been"
"involved in involved at. Yeah. And how he scams."
"Yeah. And then I remember starting to hear about you and what you do and and finding it fascinating. So you're a skip tracer, right? That's what you call yourself. Tell us first of all"
"skip tracer."
"Yeah. What what is skip tracing? And then we'll get also to this case that I just mentioned, but tell me the skip tracer."
"There's a there's a dictionary vocabulary word for d for skip tracing. But"
"being a skip tracer all these years,"
"um I find it collectively interesting how I can just find information fast. Um, I know how to maneuver around the internet, maneuver my way around the phone, and make contacts. And being in the as a as a skip tracer PI, um, I was a skip tracer before I even became a PI in 2014."
"So, I had already built a network since 2000 um, in the repossession industry"
"and I built my my network that way. ahead. I knew as a skip tracer, you learn how to work cases from plumbing, surveying, construction, repossession, locating, um, cosmetology. You name it,"
"you learn it."
"I know. I've learned it."
"And it's called skip tracing. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it's because you're looking for things that have skipped down. Either things or people have skipped down, right? That's why it's called skip tracing."
"and I've they've skipped out on"
"their obligation or they don't want to be found. They don't want they want to be they want to go missing,"
"right?"
"And so, as a skip tracer, I've been able to cut corners and get things done faster and find things much faster"
"than the normal PI, the normal cop, the normal judicial system, the due process system. I'm like, "Okay, you want him. When do you need him?" you know, and I will get on it."
"As a journalist, I'm excited about with this conversation because I want to learn from you. It seems like you have skills that I need as a journalist as well. But let's start from how you started. How was it? You grew up in Texas, right?"
"I grew up in Texas. Um,"
"born and raised in Texas."
"I was Where do you want to go back to how I started?"
"I Let's Let's talk about your because what your parents actually did had an"
"in my dad retired from IBM,"
"right?"
"International business machines. Yeah. and we had a good life."
"Yeah."
"Um my mom and dad were absent a lot due to travel and work."
"Um they were both engineers and in that in that world"
"and"
"we as kids we we lived a good life. We we lived on skateboards, bikes, new things, you know, that was my kind of lifestyle."
"And our play time at the house was we would do models. My mom would buy us model uh toys to put together. I don't even know if they sell them anymore, but like model cars."
"And my brother was like, "These cars are boring. Let's they they got to move." So my dad would bring home um little um motherboards and capacitors and resistors and little batteries and little um power things, you know, and we knew how to solder. We knew how to solder at a very early age."
"You learned how to put together a motherboard at a very very early age. And you say that that actually is partly why you're now obsessed with figuring out how things work, right?"
"Tell me about that."
"When uh my dad would bring home motherboards and stuff and we would you would say, you know, this thing doesn't work. It's dead. Let's let's let's get the lights on. Let's get the let's get the lights on, the LEDs on. I'm like, okay."
"And I would look at it. My dad was I think I got it after my dad. My dad was a a tester at IBM. He would test motherboards"
"and he would configure them and make sure that they would work and re remove the capacitors and the resistors and make sure everything was functioning according to the schematics."
"Yeah."
"And so I didn't need schematics. I'm like let's let's figure this out. Let's do the power on this and let's do the power on that and things would line up and I'm like this is fun, you know? So we would start using those little motherboards and we would cut them up"
"and put them in the little cars and the things would take off, you know, like this is fun, you know. So my mom was like, "Okay, so this is entertaining. This is this is good for them, you know, and that was our that was our tablet. That was our toys, our electronic.""
"And then how did you get into this work? How"
"um when I was in I was 20, I think 20 or 30 something. I forgot. I'm already 50 56. Um, when I was 30, I met this guy and I'm not going to mention his name. Um, and I we fell in love, right? He put a ring on my finger and it changed and it it went south. He hit me one time and I made sure justice got to him, you know. I"
"was it pretty early on in the relationship."
"It was just one It was just a one time hit. I was trying to get him airline tickets for his daughter so that they can go visit or whatever. Yeah. And I got it I was gonna get it for free and he was all he had to do is pay for the buddy buddy taxes, buddy buddy pass or whatever. $14 on Continental"
"and he hit me."
"Wow."
"And I had long beautiful hair. Um he was very controlling after the ring got on my finger. Controlling."
"Controlling. Yeah. and um things went south and there's so many details but I had to wait a whole year to get him um in the justice system and Texas took care of him, you know, and I'm like I pressed charges to the fullest extent he learned his lesson"
"and I went about my life and he went about his life"
"but during that time I was working for Adrian Crane a big personal injury law firm with staff of 26 attorneys"
"and he's no longer in business so that's why I can mention him."
"What were you doing? I was a a assistant."
"Okay."
"For a big law firm. Yeah."
"And I learned how to gather I knew how to gather information. And I'm like, this is this it came so easy for me cuz I"
"I I can put things together just by looking at them. And it's easy. It's like natural for me. I can see the picture where it needs to be and I'm like, "Okay, this is what I need. This is what I need." That's why when I go get information, I'm like, we going to take a shortcut and we're going to we're going to, you know, we're going to get that within an hour. Like, how? It's going to take a week to get this foyer request. Not for me. You know, I'm going to get it. You know,"
"we really need to work. Yeah. So, um"
"uh during that time, um two weeks, my Adrian said, "Michelle, I'm going to give you two weeks off. Handle this guy. I don't want him calling the office. this is a professional, you know, setting. Um, handle your business. You'll have your job when you get back. Well, during that two weeks, I met this guy who was in the tow business. And I I was I was very naive, smart, in an engineering mindset, but I was very naive. I trusted."
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"During that time, I met this guy named Russell. We're still friends like this."
"Mhm."
"He was in the repossession business and I told him everything was going on and he says, "Look, let um let him let your truck be where it needs to be. I already know where it's at. They're not going to charge you. You can use my car."
"And in the meanwhile, uh we need a skip tracer."
"And I was like, "What the hell is that? that sounds illegal, you know. I don't want to do nothing illegal, you know. And he goes, "No, I I Are you open? Are you open-minded?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm open-minded." He goes, "Come with me."
"Mhm."
"And so we go to this place and it's a yard full of trucks and trailers and all kinds of junk, junk cars. And I'm like, "Uh, Russell, I don't have clothes for this kind of stuff, you know. I I have business clothes, you know." He goes, "Just come in. Just come in." I go in there and it's like NCIC. I'm like, "Oh my god, this is like this is it. This is my this is my playground." You know,"
"beautiful. Don't ever judge a book by its cover. And that's a true right there. That's a true story."
"So that day,"
"it was a reposition. It's an industry of reposition. And the guy was a PI, ex-military, uh, special ops. I mean, this guy Brian was"
"badass, you know, and I was going to be taught by him."
"So he gave me the first, you know, he was like, you know, this is what we do. This is what it's about. out and I'm like, "Repossession?" I'm like, "What do you do?" Like, he goes, "I take cars. I repossess cars. I don't know if I could do this. You know, you're taking cars away from people that are trying to keep it, you know." And he goes, "Well, they can't pay. It's a business."
"And I'm like, "Um, I don't know. You know, um, it sounds like unethical." He goes, "No, this is a business. It's very ethical. It's very lawful. You know, everything's good." And, like I said, I I come from a different world. Um, it's just a different world for me, you know, and I'm like, and I never had to work like that, you know, in that environment where"
"you're you're you're negotiating things over the table that belong to somebody, but yet they can't keep it cuz they can't pay for it."
"And I didn't understand that world. Okay. Um, it was hard for me to comprehend that. So, I kind of said, "Let me consult with my father and see if this is okay." You know, he goes, "Well, let's let's do a run. Let's let's do a run. Let's see if you if you like this." that way you can go back to your father and see if it's okay. I said, "Okay." So, he he tries one. He tries an account. It didn't go good for him. He goes, "You try this account." This is the backtory on this jacket. The the vehicle, it's a van. It needs to be picked up. The father has passed away. No,"
"her father has passed away and the van is she's harboring it. She doesn't want to give it up. She's always blocking it. We do know where the house is at, but she's always blocking it and we can't get to it."
"I said, "Okay, what else?" It's been gone for 8 months and we cannot get it. We need to get it."
"I said, "Okay, give me the number." Boom. I call it. And I'm like, "Um, little girl answers." I go, "Hi, is your mommy there? Who's this?" I said, "Um, I need to speak with her." You know, you can't have a conversation with a child."
"That's one rule in the possession under 18. I said, "Is your mommy there?" "Hold on." And then she calls the sister. "Can there's a lady on the phone?" "Who is it?" "I don't know." The other girl gets on the phone. She sounds like a teenager. She goes, "Hi. Um who's this?" I said, "Uh, I need to speak with your mother." She goes, "My mom's getting dressed right now. Um, is this the flower florist?" I said, "Uh, yes."
"And I'm listening. You know, I have to I listen. My mom, my mom and dad always said, "You need to listen before you talk." That's a good one. Yeah."
"And I said, "Okay." I said, "Yes, this is the floor." She goes, "Where are where?" She immediately jump into the conversation of, "Mom, where's grandpa um where's grandpa being placed at?" She sounds off at the funeral house. I call it the funeral house. And I'm hearing I'm talking writing everything down."
"And Brian and the Russell are just looking at me like, "Oh my god, this is this is easy too easy for her." And I'm like, "Okay." Hey. I said, "We'll be having the floor delivered." And so, where's where's the burial going to be? Cuz there's going to be another set of flowers over there."
"Mom, where's grandpa going to be uh, you know, buried at? She gives that location. And I'm like, "Okay, thank you very much." Boom. Hung up. Russell goes, "Let's go get it." And I'm like, "Uh, no, you're not. You're not going to get that. They're in bereavement. You're not going to DO THAT. GOD'S GOING TO PUNISH YOU." YOU KNOW, he goes, "No, Michelle. We've been after this car for I said, "No, I'm not going to do this. This is not okay. I said, I start crying. I'm like, this is this isn't their bereavement. She just lost a family member. You're going to take away their car. I said, this is not for me. Y'all, you know, y'all going to go to hell. You know, and he goes, no, Michelle. This is a business and this is what we get paid for. I said, I need to call my dad. And my dad goes,"
"I love your relationship with your dad."
"I said, "Dad, these people going to steal people's cars." He goes, "They're not stealing a shell. They're just this is the business, you know." And and I said, "This is what I did." And it it happened so fast. was Michelle, you have ability to listen, you document, and you just go with it. And if that's what they need, then that's what they need to get these cars because people when they're pissed off and they're they're cars about to be taken,"
"they are rebellious. They don't want to be"
"no, you can't do this, you can't do that, I can't pay, I can't do this. You have to listen. So, I learned to be compassionate"
"and I become friends with all my debtors. Oh wow."
"When I was in the repossession, I worked for Rush, Kabota,"
"Freightlininer, Mac,"
"I was a a contractor with all of them."
"These are all repossessions companies."
"Yeah. Financial institutions for the big the big assets. That's why I was able to get the big yacht with Ryan Mullins. That's how I ended up"
"talk about the Ryan Mullen case as well. That is so interesting. I have so many great questions. So you did end up then going to repossess this fan during the funeral on funeral day."
"Then part two. Okay."
"So, I said, "Russell, um, we'll go. I'm going with you and I'm going to coordinate everything, you know." So, we went and I'm like, "You need to pay respects, Russell, but let's just wait till they bury him, you know, cuz I said, "This is not okay. I don't even feel comfortable with this. We're going to get shot, you know, or something." He goes, "No, we're not going to get shot. We'll just do it when we're at the house." And"
"Okay. So, she was they were all going to gather at the house."
"The car, the van was not blocked by any other family members or anything like that. It was just a day. Mhm."
"And um they went in and we got it and I was in the tow truck and I'm like I now I saw the full completion"
"of how this works and then few days later she called and says I need to get my personal effects and stuff like that. And"
"that's in the car."
"Yeah. And um"
"Was she so sad? I'm sure"
"she was upset."
"Mhm."
"She was upset. bill was she had like owed over seven $8,000 and they didn't have the money but they had a life insurance plan and I mitigated that and I said look you don't have any money left over for a life insurance plan you know this is the the last thing you have of your your grandfather she goes yeah we have money left over I said look call the bank and you tell them that you want to pay for this off"
"and you're going to pay for the repossession fees but if it's that's all you have left"
"and then she could keep the van she could keep the van and in and zero balance."
"I love that you learn to be compassionate about these people and I became friends with almost every debtor."
"That is incredible."
"And I network through them. Some of them have good good connections and I'm like I'll help you with this. So it wasn't your job to in that situation try to figure out a way for her to pay that money back because you by having the van"
"talking but communication"
"right but it was because you felt felt for her, you know, and on both ends I'm like this is a rough business, you know, but the business exists for a reason"
"and it's money."
"Yeah. So it it's brings me I want to talk a lot more about your work because you then you went from being uh working in repossession to actually working in bigger cases once I left Texas State Specialties after the year."
"Yeah."
"Because I was during my case with with the guy that hit me. I had to stay there in that county Tarant County to make sure that he got prosecuted."
"Okay. Wait, wait. Before we go there, one thing I wanted to ask is because a lot of people that listen to this show mostly listen and don't watch it. even though there's a video component."
"Um, but I want you to describe what you look like physically because you do not look like a bounty hunter or a"
"skip. When I first started, I had long hair."
"Yeah."
"Um, in a braid, very um and jeans, Converse."
"I wear Converse all the time."
"Not today. Um, I'm very humble, very relaxed."
"How tall are you?"
"411."
"41. right now weighing 98.9"
"but um 100 pounds."
"Super bubbly, awesome personality. Um what what do you think is is it that about you that makes you as a skip racer because you're not your typical the skip typical skip racer?"
"I listen."
"Mhm."
"I look at your behavior. I look I analyze you immediately. I don't judge you."
"Do you think the fact that of you being I get asked this question a lot because I work in a maledominated field. Do you think and sur usually surrounded by men in black markets uh which is very much similar world in which you live in as well"
"you know looking for fugitives and whatnot. Do you think that the being a woman um helps you in the work that you do?"
"Oh yeah. And my my um"
"my physique"
"uh I get along good. I had when I was young I had more guy friendss than girlfriends. I don't know if I was intimidated by them or what, but I got along with guys cuz I was always on the bike and I knew I was very tough. I would jump ramps or hurt my knees,"
"break my arm. I would I would play football. I would do things that were tough. You know,"
"I heard you say that you run really fast, too. So, sometimes when you have to run after these people,"
"I'm gone. If I these will be off my feet and I'll be like Carl Lewis. by these are looking at your very cute uh little uh slipper-l like shoes that you're wearing. So, you'll be in your Converse running after people."
"I'm always very comfortable. I was going to wear tennis shoes today. I'm like, I'm in California. I don't know the scene. You know, I feel very safe with the leak. Yeah."
"And um"
"at least he's your friend who's at the studio."
"Yeah. And um I'm like, I need to My husband's like, "Well, wear tennis shoes. You're always comfortable in tennis shoes." I That's what I got on the plane with, you know, I said something could happen. I think one of the reasons why you're pro I mean it's certainly why I think I'm good at what I do, why being a woman helps me is that women are often underestimated, right? So people don't expect much from us and we're also very empathetic. We tend to be to perhaps have more compassion for people"
"and emotional."
"Yeah."
"Do you do you agree with that? That that helps you too?"
"Yeah. But I also look at their circumstances. I'm like, okay, what happened along the way that"
"you're in this situation? And so I'm like, "Okay, I need to help you. I'm gonna help you one way."
"And um I don't look at a benefit as me helping me. I I'm finding out a way I can help you."
"Not so that I can feel good, but to make your life better."
"Yeah."
"And if I'm going if I need to do it, I'm going to move mountains for you. Even if I don't know you."
"Yeah. Michelle, I again this is I I think people probably realize this, but this is not what you expect when you think of a skip tracer or bounty hun like you think of dog the bounty hunter what's his name the guy who's like the right like a dog right famousman Dwayne something yes um so these are not attributes that you usually associate"
"I do not wear gear nothing spiky or nothing black um I"
"what do you wear by the way like what's your typical what do you when you go to these"
"I go And when I get into the environment, I have to look at the jacket and see what I'm looking at. What am I"
"The jacket is the case."
"Yeah. Yeah."
"I go in there. I'm like, "Okay, I know their colors. I know what their favorite color is, what their favorite food is, how they speak, what their dog's name is, their cat name is. I know their nicknames. I know everything cuz I've already done a a deep dive."
"I'm like, "Okay, so they're going to be at this outlet. I'm going to wear my flip-flops. I'm going to wear little sunglasses and I'm going to go in here and I'm going to sell cookies"
"and I'm going to get a hold of this person. my main subject and I'm going to have a I'm going to have a talk with them and I'm going to come I'm going to get close to them and make contact and I'm going to be their friend today."
"Huh. So, it's there's a lot of social engineering, right? Pretending you're somebody you're not"
"instead of using the tablet. I've already done my deep dive online,"
"right?"
"And found whatever I need to find. Now, it's time to get up close and personal."
"That is so cool."
"And look at them."
"That is amazing. Who have you pretended to be?"
"Girl Scout cookie seller. Um I lost my cat and lost my dog. um selling this and selling that. Um garage sales um free I'll give away free stuff and I'll go and say hey I'm giving away these free flyers for free this and free that and I'll go buy like things like at Subway and or you know cookies or whatever and I'll coupons like hey you go we're giving away free coupons or this and that this and that and I'll go straight to my Target. I'm like hi."
"And then you start talking."
"Oh yeah."
"Wow. And also FedEx or UPS. Uh"
"I don't mess with mail."
"Okay. Not mail. Okay."
"I do have little coupons and say, "Hey, you know, you need to contact so and so. Your package has been delivered over here.""
"And fake coupons, I guess, or fake."
"But I'll never intervene with any kind of federal mail. Any kind of thing is illegal. No."
"Pre-texting. That's illegal."
"Um a pre-texting of anything that's"
"I don't need to pre-text because I already know my client. I already know my subject. So, do you have a bunch of disguises at home?"
"Uhhuh. I have wigs."
"What's the favorite your favorite disguise that you've ever worn?"
"I pretended I pretended to be a sex worker once, which was fun."
"I did, too."
"Did you?"
"With a red dress. It looked like so crazy."
"Okay, tell me more."
"I I got this guy. Okay, it was funny cuz we were in Texas. I was in Texas and I got a call from North Carolina says, "Michelle, got a jumper."
"I'm like, "Okay, what does he do?" You know, he goes, "He's a salsa guy." D. And he gave me all this. He gave me the whole backstory. I said, "Send it to me." He sent it to me. I was in my pajamas at the house talking to this guy on my other trap line. Trap line's another phone."
"Yeah."
"I had a a 561 area code. I had to build that one. And you build it. And I called him and I said, "Oh, you know, you know, he goes," I said, "Mariela." You know, I would come up with names off the black, you know,"
"and um he goes, "I see." you know, and like we're going to meet today."
"Oh, yeah. I said CVS. I already had the whole area out."
"Who did he think you were?"
"Mariela. The girl that he was meeting online."
"Oh, okay."
"Cuz I was working him."
"Yeah. Yeah. So, you knew that he was doing this. He was looking for his profile on Facebook. I had everything ready. I had it squared and pegged"
"and I'm like, "Okay, we're going to be at CVS." Yeah."
"This was all within five, six hours. I got a call at midnight. No, around 10 o'clock my time. It was at 11 o'clock North Carolina time. And I had that guy by 6:00 in the morning."
"Holy [ __ ] That's incredible."
"And he was all in white. Oh, this is so funny. So, I had the the fugitive, the bounty hunters were already in in that area."
"I said, I have a location for him. He's going to be at the CVS at this area. Really? I said, yep, be there. It was a guy and a girl. They were paired up and I was in my pajamas at the house. I had him going and I'm like, "I'll be at the CVS. I'll be wearing a red dress and I'll be in my Mini Cooper." I did have a Mini Cooper at the time. A red one. He goes, "Oh, really?" I said, "See, you know, I'll be ready for you." Boom. We're going to go here. We're going to go to a salsa club near the area. He goes, "All right." He shows up in a blue Honda, all in white, dark complexed Cuban guy."
"Um, no, Puerto Rican. He was Puerto Rican. And the guys go, "I see him." You know, they're like, I was like, "Well, calm down. Don't get him yet. Just let him go inside. When he comes out, he's not going to expect it. Let him go in. Let him go into CVS." I told him that I was going to be there shortly. So, he's like pacing back and forth, waiting for me."
"And I said, "I'm there." I wasn't even there yet. You know, I wasn't even there virtually. And he's like I said and I said when he looks confused that's when you go get him. Oh"
"good."
"And they got him. And they're like we got him."
"Thank you Michelle."
"You you didn't even have to show up with your"
"Tom was at home watching everything. You know the girl was videotaping me on what's up. You know everything was done like virtual. She goes, "Michelle, you are amazing.""
"Oh wow."
"And this guy fell in my hands so easily."
"Wow."
"And then I one time did in Miami when we did an intern fraud. I was in a red dress. Yeah. and little, you know, hard hard to walk in heels. Very uncomfortable. But when I needed to run, I took them damn things off and I was gone, you know, and we got the guy. Uh I was working under another pocket card and that was I was training."
"And you you were also pretending to be a sex worker in that one when you were wearing the red dress"
"and that was very just uncomfortable cuz I don't know that line of work."
"It's it that world is totally different, you know. Um"
"yeah,"
"it's scary. It's unpredictable. You don't know who's watching you. You don't know. You don't know anything."
"You're there on your own. I had my gun"
"strapped in"
"and I was ready to go."
"Wow. Yeah. I'll tell you about my story. My when I dressed up as a sex worker, we were doing a story about sex trafficking and we were trying to show how in Vegas a lot of these escort services that they say they they don't allow for sex or they don't because sex work is illegal in Vegas. It's allowed in Nevada, but not in Vegas because it's a family town. Uh that's how they sell it. and they but I wanted to go into some of these escort services, the offices, and apply and pretend I was applying for a job and then ask them about sex work and see how open they would be. And so, yeah, I also had to put on my high heels and dress, you know,"
"and the conversation, the lingo, the verbiage, these girls have a great vocabulary."
"Exly. And I remember I was I was wearing a secret camera. I was super nervous. My husband was in the car. I was when I was still working with my husband in the field and he was filming from the car, just me going into the building. I go into this building and every single room in this like long corridor, a lot of them we'd been told are actual u escort services or at least that's the the sort of offices. And yeah, I sat down for an interview and five I pretended I was Brazilian, that I'd worked in a strip club before and they offered me a job and then I started asking questions about sex work and it was great because we got I got all the answers that I needed to get. I mean, they talked about how I'll get paid a lot more if I in fact do have sex with the clients, which again is illegal. So, I just I remember walking out um and making sure that my husband could hear everything"
"and uh and then being so excited that I got the job"
"cuz I thought it could have been terrible on national television if they had said, "No, sorry. You're not"
"you're not pretty enough."
"Yeah. But golly,"
"I was also like already 40some. I was like so excited. Yes. I got I still got it. Yeah, I get carded when I go like to to visa like uh"
"you look so I'm like oh"
"I'm I'm 50 years old you know like let me see and so I would"
"you look so young which also probably works in your"
"you know like I I don't always wear"
"you know I'm very comfortable"
"so go back to where you went from repossession to being more of a looking for people and how you're the person that you were"
"so I left Texas state special days. Um, I get a call from a PI."
"Oh, wait. This has to do with the person that hit you and you had to stay in town. Tell me that story."
"Right. After that, after that whole situation, the whole year, and it got processed and he got a he got justice."
"Okay, good."
"I left uh Texas State Specialties. I said, "Okay, I'm done."
"Um, the years as a skip treasure here, I'm done. I'm going back home because I didn't want my daughter"
"to see what was going on in my in that turbulent time. So she was with her father"
"um and he's passed away. Um she was with her father and and staying with my mom and my dad and I would go every weekend. So"
"Monday through Friday I would be in Arlington and then Saturday and Sunday I would go and Friday I would leave and go be with my daughter and come back until this whole justice thing was over because I had to go and deal with the the DA and make sure that he got prosecuted. And sometimes they would he would say uh she wants to you know you want to release the charges. I'm like, "No, I'm going to press charges 100%." And he's going to learn his lesson."
"You should not do that."
"No woman or no man should be hit cuz there's women that are violent. You know, they'll"
"beat the hell out of their husbands, you know, or boyfriends."
"Yeah. No one should be"
"No. No. Um hands off."
"And so that was over. I left Texas State Specialties and I went home to Lockhart"
"and I was relaxed, you know. I'm like, "Okay, everything's good. Everything's done." I get a call um in January or February and I get this guy named Joe Burles and we're still friends"
"and he's like, "Hey, I'm so and so. Um Ford has called me to look for you and uh we need four we need three or four uh F350s or F450s picked up with with uh with trailers with car carriers." I'm like, I'm not in that business anymore. I I'm not I don't do skip tracing. I don't I don't work for Texas State Specialty. Goes, "Nope." Um, the owner gave us your number and he is on the phone with us. So I'm like, "Hello, Brian." He goes, "Yeah." He goes, "Michelle, I'm going to sponsor you. Go get what you need to get and I suggest you open up your own company called Unlimited Recoveries."
"Wow."
"And I'm like, "What the hell is that?" You know, he goes, "That's going to be your new DBA." And I I I said, "I don't know anything about business. You know, I don't this is this is not I'm not ready for that." you know, I didn't I had no idea that my potential was that big."
"Well, Ford wanted me to go get those those trucks. And so, I found them within"
"I found them before the day was over. And um it was easy. It was like a natural talent for me"
"and I had those trucks locked up and secured. I already had them located and everything."
"So, you started with cars and then what was your first case that was with where you were looking for a person? All the first case well during the repossession you look for these people it's the same it goes hand in hand these people"
"you have to find the people to find the cars"
"the one of the biggest cases was uh when I first was starting was twins I had to go find these two I had to go find these two twins that turned"
"to be boys but they were girls"
"okay"
"and they switched plates"
"from car to car and they switched their identities that was the most difficult case in San Antonio, this car dealership said, "I need for you to find this car and I don't know what I'm dealing with." I'm like, "What are you dealing with?" And he goes, "I I I sold it to a girl, but a guy is driving it."
"And I'm like, "Well, maybe they have a brother, you know." And I'm like, "Okay, it's time to go uh play um surveillance, you know, on the streets. I have to go and and sit at this house." And I'm like, "Okay, I got to get parked this way because the car the house is there. They have a few cars. They always park it in, you know, they always have it hidden from other cars. So, I'm gonna have to watch it. And I watched it for two, three days. And finally, I saw that she was a night hooker. She was dancer."
"And so, a boy would get in, a girl would come out and I would follow the car, and I went to the place in San Antonio where she was dancing."
"Huh. I'm like, "Oh my god, it's it's it's two different personalities, two different lifestyles, right? Okay,"
"we're good. Now we can get it at the at the at the place where she dances."
"So, I'm like, "Okay, I got I had I it was it was a three-day 72-hour situation. I got the tow guy. I said, "Go pick up that car right there." I checked the van."
"So, it was it wasn't twins. It was one person."
"It was one person."
"And we thought it was twins. We thought because we didn't know the the man when he gave me the case. He goes, "I'm dealing Somebody's driving this. I think they're twins."
"And I'm like, what do you mean? But see, a dealership and their agents are not in are not supposed to go and go repossess that"
"that that vehicle back. It's against the law,"
"right?"
"They have to go hire out."
"Okay. So, that's where they you come in. Yeah."
"They have to hire out."
"Yeah."
"So, um as a skip tracer, I went to go and and deal with that. And then I said, "Okay, I'm going to hire tow truck."
"I So, I got the dealership to hire the tow truck"
"legally. Yes, I'll deal with y'all's insurance and do what y'all need to do. This is where the vehicle's at and you'll get it and I'll make sure you get it."
"So, I I videotape everything and assure that the client, which is my dealership, get this vehicle back"
"and and that's what happened. And there there are situations where people change their their their whole they have two two lives, two identities."
"They change. Yeah. And actually, that brings me to the Ryan Mullins case. Mullen case, right? because he was okay. Tell me about Ryan Melon. And also he was he had several different identities, right? Which is why it was impossible for people to find him."
"He he he changed his names his var he variated his names. Let's put it that way. One person variation, but he knew how to camouflage himself within different lifestyles. Rich"
"just camouflage himself in. So tell me first who he is and then also tell me how you came into that case"
"as a skip tracer. This was before 2014 when I became licensed Texas PI."
"Uhhuh."
"I was a skip tracer like again working as a contractor for big corporations"
"and as a contract that is legal. You don't have to be licensed. You're employed"
"by each"
outfit. Right. So when I went after um Ryan Mullen, uh a collective agency, alternative collections reached out to me, and I was already helping them with other cases as a skip tracer.
Here you go. Here you go. Here you go. I would find them like eggs, and this one was a big one. This was like, this is a big one, Michelle. We need a yacht. I said, "Oh my god." You know, yacht.
>> So they were looking for an yacht.
>> Yeah. To repossess a yacht.
>> Yeah. They wanted the yacht because apparently this guy had uh lied to the bank and made fake checks and and this was, I mean, this guy had everybody confused that they didn't know where to even start. Like, here you go. Here's the jacket.
>> Figure it out.
>> Right. He was a mass, he was a scammer. A fraudster.
>> Yeah. He was a fraudster 100%.
>> And they were trying to get the yacht so they could repay some of his debts. Right. Okay.
>> And he was able, the the check was fraud. Everything he did and presented to these people, financial statements, fraud, right? Made up.
>> Right. So, he would, I was reading about this case because of your involvement in it, but he was uh he was he'd present himself, he'd have different identities, but usually he'd present himself as a very, very wealthy man. I mean, the typical fraudster, right? Very wealthy who's interested in doing some sort of business deal with you. And then he starts, he he even gets people to pretend to be his bankers.
>> Y
>> to uh
>> and he would make calls from the bank.
>> Yeah.
>> Because he would say, "Oh, my phone's not working. Can I use your phone number?" So he would be like, "This is the credit department." "Yes, so and so." "Okay." Okay. He would be the person to
>> actually calling from the bank, pretending that he was somebody that worked at the bank and telling the people that he was trying to swindle.
>> Are you even trying to call me?
>> Yes. Um, yes, I'm the so and so. Yes. He Ryan Mullen is a very good customer. Um,
>> he has hundreds of thousands in our bank.
>> Good to go. He's a great client. Boom.
>> Confirmed. And then he gets a call from the person that he's trying to get the money from. Hey, everything's good. We just got a call from the bank. You're good to go. Come get it.
>> Great. So, yes, I guess you're catch me if you can character. They come.
>> And he said that was his favorite movie. His mama told me, his mom actually told me. She called me. She, I think she already passed away,
>> but she called me and she goes, "I need for you to get him and put him away."
>> Okay. So, tell me.
>> Yeah. So, then you started looking into this jacket, this case, and realized, "This guy is insane."
>> Yeah. Um, it was exciting. Um, at that time, I get a call from Randall Sullivan, the one and only Randall Sullivan, the one who wrote the article.
>> Okay.
>> And um, he says, "Hi, I'm so and so, Randall Sullivan." I'm like, "Okay." And uh I've gotten offers and calls before from other people and writers and stuff like that, but that lifestyle didn't interest me.
>> And um I'm like, "We're gonna help you." You know, he goes, "I want to I go I've been I'm so and so. I'm Randall Sullivan. I've called around and they, I'm looking for a skip tracer because I'm writing a book or writing some an article."
>> I said, "Well, you want you want to be you want to do this for real?" I said, "I'm going to New Orleans. I'm going to be there in about two days."
>> Really?
>> I said, "Yep, this is the case."
>> So, this was a writer who wanted to do a story about you and was then following you around during your cases. And it happened to be exactly at the time that you were doing the
>> perfect timing knows his ways,
>> right?
>> I said, "Okay, well, I'm going to be in Nola. I'm leaving already in two days. I'm going after this guy. This is this and you know, I gave him the whole scoop."
>> He goes, "I'll be there." He was there before me.
>> So, I drive with my security and I went
>> Oh, you were traveling with security?
>> Yeah, I went.
>> Do you always travel with security?
>> Sometimes and sometimes I don't because
>> I'm I'm really I have DEA, I have a lot of networks. I have a big network. So if I if I go, I go like I don't I don't like the attention,
>> right?
>> If I need to go and do a, you know, recon, I'm going to go and check it out and say, "Okay, I'm going to need two or three eyes with me, right?
>> And I need somebody to deflect attention from me. So either I'm going to go and sell chicklets. I'm going to go do this or I'm going to sew have my kitty cat with me. I'm going to have something to distract,
>> right? And that is important to have security because you never know, right? These people can be armed. They can be they're usually angry at the in this situation. So, you never know, right?
>> Okay. So, you got you guys, you got your security. You're driving down
>> and I go to Noah and I already I have my triangle set out. I already did all my skip work and I'm like, I'm going to get this guy. And um then I get a call from the US Marshals, Mr. Chesby. He goes, "Gomez, when you get this guy, I want to get him. I need to get him arrested." I said, "For what? For a boat?" He goes, "No, he's wanted by the government." I said, "Uh, I didn't know that. You know, I had no idea on this other side of the jacket."
>> And I go, "What's going on?"
>> He goes, "He stole $2 million from the government. He's he's wanted. We need to get him."
>> He goes, "Well, I'm going to be I'm going to Marathon."
>> Um, I said, "To the Keys?"
>> He goes, "Yeah, that's where he's going."
>> I said, "Good luck." He's not there.
>> Why not?
>> I said he's not there. I already called Harbor. I called Harbor Police. I know he's not there.
>> So, you already
>> I already I already knew his printing. I had the guy, the printing, the tow guy. I had his finance
>> and I had already all them already squared, you know, and I got a hold of the finance guy. And I um when I got a hold of him, I threatened him. I said, "Look, you're going to go down with him."
>> Mhm.
>> You either be a good father that you are. I said, "I know you're Catholic. I said, "And I know your daughter's sick."
>> Oh, wow.
>> I said, "So if you want to live to see your daughter um live and not be in jail, you better start talking."
>> Wow. So, this was a guy who was his partner, basically.
>> One of his partners has three legs.
>> Okay.
>> A a scammer will always have three legs.
>> And they work in triangles.
>> Huh.
>> You will never do this alone.
>> It's impossible unless you're super badass. But a scammer will have a triangle and it's compromised of a triangle. You got your feet, you got your finance, and you got your your movers.
>> Okay.
>> And your main one is in the middle.
>> Huh.
>> And that's Ron Mullen.
>> Okay. And so you got a hold of this guy.
>> I got a hold of the guy and I looked at him. He had me going in circles and I saw a rosary on his on his um on his rearview mirror and I knew he was going to the hospital to see his daughter cuz she was dying.
>> And she was a little girl. I said, "You're Catholic, right?" He goes, "Yep." I said, "Well, I'm Catholic, too." I said, "And um you need to think long and hard before you make your next move."
>> I said, "Cuz if you want to see your daughter live and you want to see her prosper and get out of this situation that she's in medically, I suggest you be a good father."
>> Mhm.
>> And you you think on this really good. I said, "Cuz you're going down today if I go get Mullen."
>> He had me go a whole hour and a half in circles.
>> Wow.
>> He He wanted Mullen to get away.
>> Oh, he was trying to
>> Yeah. divert the time so that I could lose him,
>> right?
>> Well, we me and Rand hauled ass to that location and we found him.
>> Wow. And he was in a big mansion.
>> He was in a big huge beautiful white plantation in the back. Had another boat house, right?
>> His big boat was secured with ropes and everything.
>> And he was already unleashing
>> to leave. by you Tash,
>> right? And he was he that that plantation and that big beautiful house was owned by another guy called
>> Mr. Gary Bloom
>> who he was trying to swindle us. Well, right. He had convinced
>> take over his
>> this rich man that he was also very rich and he was trying to steal his money essentially.
>> He had something to do with banks in Florida. He's the owner of banks or something like that,
>> right? I I remember the description when I was reading the article. This guy Bloom was then quoted like that this that Ryan Mullen would present himself as being really knowledgeable as having like dozens of Rolls-Royces which are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Um and and that he also he he got a call from the banker pretending to be which was actually Ryan said intelligent. You're a banker.
>> Yeah.
>> How can you have been swindled?
>> He goes, Michelle, it's the conversation.
>> He knew the words.
>> That's how we talk,
>> right?
>> And I'm like, okay, well, like every scammer, they know the lingo.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's too good to be true. Yeah.
>> And he was going to buy that plantation
>> from him or pretending he had other two two other two other big plantations
>> down the street, you know, Gary Bloom well off,
>> right?
>> And um
>> Oh, wow.
>> When I get a hold of, you know, Ryan Mullen, I approach him. I'm in shorts.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Flip flops.
>> Um it was so funny. The the plantation police, I call them the plantation police in that area. They were in these like Goomemer pile jumper jumpers like they were gonna like they look like airmen. I'm like, "Where are y'all going?" you know, and it was just so funny to me. And I'm like, he goes, "Uh, who are you?" I said, "I here's my paperwork. Here's the the warrant, you know, here's this. Here's that." Give them all the documentation. I said, he goes, "Let us get ready." I'm like, "You're not ready. You're a policeman. You're supposed to be ready all the time. You're this is your this is your job." You know, they were in their little gears and they all come and they come and there's like an army man coming to the to the property and I was already had this guy, you know, I had uh what do you call it when they uh deputized me?
>> Yeah. He goes, "You're deputized." I read him his rights. He goes, "Who the hell are you?" And I'm like, "I Gomez."
>> Where was he when you first arrived? Where he was
>> on the on the on the deck.
>> He was just sitting on the deck.
>> No, he had the string the the rope unleashing the boat.
>> Oh, he was ready to go.
>> He was ready to go. And um I I got deputized. I read him his rights.
>> Wow. And
>> Randall filmed it.
>> And he said, "Who the hell are you?" And what did he say?
>> Who the hell are you? you know, like I'm this little tiny girl with this guy. He's a big guy. He had a dog with him and I said, "Are you Ryan Patrick Mullen?" He goes, "No." And I had my my binder out. I showed him his photo. He goes, "That's me, but that's not my name." I'm like, "Whatever your name is." I said, "You I know you're Ryan Patrick Mullen." I said, "You're under arrest." And then that's when the police came.
>> Wow. And they were all running towards it, you know, and they they handcuffed him and
>> they did their thing. They wouldn't they wouldn't let me board the the boat until it was cleared.
>> Yeah.
>> Um he had two par he had a parrot.
>> Dogs and cats.
>> Oh, what else did he have? Dogs and cats and parrots.
>> I actually for some reason wrote this down because I thought it was amazing. But
>> it was nasty in there.
>> Yeah, he was uh he was taken away. This was from the article about he was taken away along with the five animals on board the yacht. Two Chihuahua, a pair of cats, and a magnificent green parrot. Yes. As the bird was c This is so funny. As the bird was carried off in its cage, it amused the growing crowd by repeating again and again the two phrases it knew best, which were, "Kill them all and where's Mullen?"
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, he had been trained by Mullen himself to to the parrot to repeat this. Kill them all. Where is Mullen?
>> Do you remember hearing this?
>> It was funny. Where's Mullen? I'm like, what are you going to do with the bird? Cuz I love animals. I'm like, I I can, you know, I I'll rescue the animals. Like, no, we can't. They got to They got to go to a shelter, you know.
>> And I'm like, okay. Well, it is what it is.
>> Character. Is he still in prison?
>> I think he barely went to prison for another big scheme that was going on.
>> No way. Louisiana is so corrupt.
>> The politicians, everything. There's a lot more to it than than just that. Yeah. So I mean and this was a case that law enforcement he had been he'd eluded law enforcement for years and you within a few days
>> politician pull
>> was that why
>> he was being protected by politicians.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Why? What were they? What is he
>> sex money? Kids little girls. And I have um one of on one of my phones that I still have from him. I have a box full of mal [ __ ]
>> Yeah. uh like memor um picture of text messages saying um how much is she worth? She goes she have blue eyes, blonde hair. Yeah, she's a baby.
>> So he's worse than a scammer. He was a predator and a sex trafficker.
>> Did did he do time in prison for that as well?
>> I don't think so. I think it's just for fraud.
>> Were any of the politicians ever?
>> No, but I want to go after I want to go deep and um get those politicians. I know it's based on a lot of corruption, a lot of money. Um, there's girls that have been harmed
>> and I I know that if I find them,
>> they're going to talk.
>> Yeah, we should we should definitely look into this. This is crazy. So, you um So, this was a case Yeah. Everybody was trying to find this guy. You did. And and then Wyard ended up actually writing this article about you and your work, right?
>> What happened after that?
>> My life changed. Yeah.
>> Um and I'm like, "Oh my god." And then I I started like getting all these calls and then Oh. And then um just so many things happen and I'm like what is going on? honest this is this was uh this is something big you know
>> this article comes out you start getting a lot more even more um
>> fraction I mean and there's people from all over the world calling me
>> um news people I get calls from big millionaires like I need this found I need that found and I'm like hold your horses you know
>> which actually brings me to the case that brought us together
>> when I came when they came to that I get a I get an email from Mark I forgot got what year? I I still have it in my Gmail and I'm reading this and I'm like, "Oh my god."
>> So, this is Mark one. He was Mark Mr. Belgium.
>> Yeah, Mr. Belgium. Is it a Belgium?
>> Mr. Belgium.
>> Because he's a Belgium uh citizen who had been swindled by this guy, hundreds of thousands of dollars by Alex. And so, you get an email from from Mark. I got an email from Mark as well, which is how we got connected. And and he says that he needs you to find this guy.
>> He needs help.
>> Yeah. And I'm reading it and reading it and I read it over again and I I highlight what I need to highlight and I'm like, "Okay, my basic thing is who's this person?"
>> And I always I always do a background on my my client, you know, to see who they are. Is this is this a real outreach? You know, is this a real help? They seeking help for real. What is going on? Are they trying to Because they always tell me, you need to be careful who's trying to reach out to you because they want to try to get close to you to harm you. So I have to be careful with that too.
>> Yeah. And you need to make sure also that this is not just like a revenge, right? Somebody trying to get revenge out of somebody else for no reason, right?
>> Yeah. And um so this was very authentic and I'm like, okay, Alex George Tus, he's a prince of Dubai. Okay. This guy had pictures of himself in white gear on horses, uh Lamborghinis, you know, Ferraris, and he was living the life. And I found out where he was living, who he was living with, and I had him squared pegged, you know, and I'm like, "Okay, this guy is is uh" and I'm like, "This was just one guy." Well, Mark says, "I have other people." I said, "Well, okay, well, get them to send me their inquiries as to what how they got scammed, right?
>> Each one had a different scam.
>> Each one was swindled by Alex in a different manner, in a different logistics.
>> Yeah. Yeah, tell me the way
>> by uh the logistics and import the import export business, the design business, the Superman drink.
>> Mhm.
>> So these are all things that he pretended he was involved in and he would get people to
>> shell companies,
>> right?
>> Shell companies.
>> And he'd get people to invest, but then it was almost like a pyramid scheme, right? There was no actual money there.
>> Shell companies had no money in them,
>> right? and he went after them on and he every one of them had a fake financial statement
>> built dollars and cents and everything. Everything looked perfect
>> especially for a businessman to be in that business knowing about wealth and money and movement and the everything was picture perfect.
>> Yeah. I remember the Superman drink. So this was something that he convinced a scient right a doctor local doctor. He was living in San Antonio, which is why in our minds he became sort of the prince of San Antonio. The Dubai the prince from Dubai who is now living in San Antonio. The prince of San Antonio because he was pretending to be this big prince. Very very wealthy.
>> A diplomat.
>> Yeah. Yeah. A diplomat. He had photos of him in sort of all luxury uh environments, private planes and expensive cars and all that.
>> Chic.
>> Yeah. And he would drive an expensive car with sheets. Exactly. And so people thought, okay, there's this guy with this like Dubai money who's like willing to with millions or billions behind him and willing to invest in us and in our businesses. And so he had convinced this local doctor, very wellrespected doctor to get involved in this business for this energy, right? Was he energy drink? It's an energy drink that was also healthy and
>> healthy. And the poor
>> for I think for some kind of athletic stuff going on like for rehabilitation.
>> Right. Right. And the poor doctor actually got a lot of his own patients and close friends involved in putting money into this and it was nothing. It was a nothing burger.
>> Empty.
>> Right. And so he had swindled a doctor. He had swindled wealthy people around. And then he also
>> and they're all connected.
>> Yeah. And also he married Tell me about his female relationships.
>> Um he married um I don't know if I should bring her name up.
>> Maybe not but just say he married somebody.
>> She he married a very beautiful girl. Yeah.
>> Um and she
>> who's also successful very successful in her own work.
>> She's from Honduras.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and she he married her. She had um a daughter with him.
>> Mhm.
>> And um we're not going to mention the baby's name. And um he swindled people in the neighborhood in where they lived
>> saying that she was sick.
>> And she and I still have not met her. Mhm.
>> I still have not met her.
>> I haven't met her on the phone cuz I've spoken on
>> and they're all close to me.
>> They're like she's in San Antonio. She's like 45 minutes away from me.
>> And um I haven't met none of them yet.
>> Um because we're going to go after the mom and the dad and all family.
>> Right. Cuz it turns out that Alex's family, his mom, dad, brothers are all involved.
>> Yeah. He left her in destitute,
>> right,
>> to his wife, his ex-wife.
>> And she he had made up a lie. This is one of the big ones that she was dying of cancer.
>> Mhm. and he had borrowed money from a lot of people in the neighborhood and she was wondering why these friends did not come around.
>> Right. And this way and this is not this is the wife that he's this successful Honduran woman who's living in San Antonio. He was telling people that she was dying of cancer and she would go out on the street and people were looking at her weird and she couldn't figure out why and everybody thought that she was dying of cancer.
>> And finally one of them said, "Hey, I I need to speak to you about the money that you borrowed." She goes, "What? Winnie, what? Borrow for what?" "Well, because of your treatment." She's like, "What treatment?"
>> Oh my god.
>> Because your your treatment for your cancer. What?
>> I had dying of cancer. I had no cancer. What are you talking about?
>> And so that's And people she said people were telling her Alex is fraud. Alex is this and she would not believe it for nothing cuz she was her husband.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, and she's a faithful person. She said that's the the rude awakening that took place because people were not coming. Her friends that she knew were not coming to her because they felt sympathy and they felt sorry for her. They wanted her to rest
>> and cuz she was dying.
>> Yeah. That is so nuts. I mean the extent
>> and and Alex was strategic in keeping the friends away, the ones that he borrowed money from
>> from her.
>> Yeah.
>> To reveal the truth.
>> Where do you think this was all going? Like at some point
>> to his family he was he was spreading the wealth. But do you think he thought he actually thought he was going to get caught because he eventually did get caught and partly because of the work you did and then he he's now in prison for a long time.
>> I trusted him everywhere I was even in New York news. Um the guy that actually helped me get on the news in New York, the business business New York, I was on the big old radio thing that got taken down
>> u because uh oh this is going to be good. So, and I can go so many ways with this because this is so many people involved with this case. He had an ex an ex FBI agent, Toleta Copeland involved. She was one, the exx ride. She was the manager
>> because he had a relationship with her, right? Like actual
>> she fell in love with him.
>> There were Yeah. And he had women all over the US that fall in love with him. the w woman in Miami in Palm Beach with the Trump uh ties,
>> right?
>> Everything. I mean, he knew how to get each woman because of his little accent and his little gullible conversations,
>> right? And and the fact that he here's a man who's very po very successful and very very wealthy um and provide this wonderful luxurious
>> knew how to talk.
>> Yeah. And so yeah, so he had this involvement with the FBI with this FBI agent. Tell me more about that because I know what happened to her. It's very sad. Yeah, she had gotten a hold of me um a few years before all this was taking place and she was basically doing her skill set. She was an FBI agent.
>> She's like, "Michelle, I have a client." She never divulged the name or nothing.
>> I already know the name, but I'm not going to.
>> And that all ties back again with Alex. Okay.
>> So, she says, "I have a client that has been um scammed by Alex. can you help me? And I'm like hearing the words. I'm like, you're an ex FBI agent. You have more power than me. You can have more access than me. What do you need help with? And I'm like, I'm over here admiring her because I know that she was in the scenes with OSENT, the open source intelligence.
>> Okay.
>> And I I was I was told or I was I was seeing ads saying that she was good in OSENT.
>> Mhm.
>> And I'm like, okay, well, they teach that seminars. Great. I never attended him because I have my own skill set, you know. And um she says, "I I need can you share with me some of this and some of that? What you have on Alex?" And I'm like, "I can get you the I said, "Right now, we're fixing to go to bankruptcy court. They're they're going to go they're going to divulge all the creditors and all the people that he owes money to. Why don't you get here's the case number." Boom. I sent it to her. She would talk here and there in little bits and pieces. And I was like, "This lady is an XFBI agent. She can get information.
>> H
>> why is she asking me?
>> Yeah. Sounded fishy. Yeah.
>> And I'm like I was there's something in my stomach that was just telling me be careful, Michelle. Be careful. Be careful. Be careful. And I'm like okay. Well, one time I was getting too close.
>> She calls me on the phone at night at 10:00 at night and I was getting in the way of Toleta because of money. I was trying to bring down Alex, but in the same time that was to let us money,
>> right? Because you had no idea. So she was pretending that she was just an FBI agent interested in going after him, but in fact she was having a relationship with him and was expecting
>> I didn't get that together until later and I'm like, "Wow."
>> Okay. Then she calls me one night drunk and I have those recordings till this day if you want them.
>> I've I've heard them.
>> You did?
>> I did.
>> How?
>> Because we've been talking about this story for a while.
>> Okay. So, and I'm like, "What the hell?" And I was in my ready to go to sleep mim me clothes, you know, and I was, you know, me and my husband were just looking at TikTok and stuff like that. And I get this strange call. I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is Toleta calling me for right now? It's 10:45."
>> And I'm like, "Tetta, are you okay?" My concern was more pass compassion. Yeah.
>> Like,
>> are you okay?
>> Yeah.
>> And I don't know you heard the conversation cuz I was concerned about
>> she was drunk and I knew Yeah. And that's when I got the full gif of what she was telling me about. And I'm like, "Look, to let her." And I was talking about Alex and stuff like that. And I got into a conversation with her and there. But she was drunk and I'm like, "Are you okay to let
>> Right. She was so she so tell me the gist of the conversation was she was drunk. She felt really bad. She she was so I just want to be like you, Michelle. You are so good at what you do." And right
>> I'm like
>> and did you you use that conver you were telling her look this guy that you were in a relationship with is a big scammer.
>> Yeah. And I wanted to help her. I wanted to get out of it. I want her to get open up and this was my opportunity. She was so vulnerable. I'm like toetta save yourself. Help me
>> help you.
>> Yeah. By bringing this guy to
>> and this and she would not.
>> And then later later
>> April 25th I find out she's passed away. Right.
>> And I called the medical examiner and I said, "What happened?" It was um alcohol alcohol poisoning.
>> Yeah. It's so sad. But this man eventually uh Alex the Prince of Dubai/the Prince of San Antonio. Yeah. Major
>> SW. She made a website against me, michellefraud.com or something like that. I'm like, why would you do that? You know, I was angry with her. of course angry cuz all these other opportunities were coming up and they're like this these people from New York wanted me to be a part of this elite operation you know like Michelle what is going on with this website I'm like I don't know
>> but this lady is she clean she scrubbed the internet
>> she scrubbed the internet of anything mentioning bad things about Alex
>> yes
>> yeah and eventually obviously you were right
>> and that's how I met the Barnes yeah
>> Nick Barnes the Barnes family yeah
>> they were scammed by Alex
>> as well
>> and I'm Yeah. And when I when I got a hold of them in Sanar, they they reached they reached out to me. I met him in San Marcus. I'm like, "What? How could you? You're wealthy people. How could you not have seen that this guy I said his stuff is all over the internet? I know Michelle." Because I was told by the FBI to stand down.
>> So I I I left the news case to rest for like a year.
>> Eight months to a year.
>> I'm like, "How did you not see all the stuff that I put on the internet? What stuff?"
>> People get blinded by money, right? the promise of a guy who's worth possibly worth millions of dollars with Dubai money. I think people just got blinded by that in many ways, you know, and he obviously was very good at what he did. But he's now in prison serving like 24 25 year sentence.
>> Three rivers.
>> Uhhuh. But the case isn't over because there's more people involved and you're still working. I'm going to
>> I'm um I'm thankful to Alex only for one thing is that he was his case that got me and you together to start talking about this
>> and I I we're we're trying to, you know, get in and see if you can put me on the list to go say, "Hey, what's up? You want to
>> get into tell me and I'll come with you."
>> Yeah. I I want to go and I want to go visit him. I want to I want to see him.
>> Yeah.
>> In real life.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They should never underestimate women like you.
>> We should never underestimate you. Essentially,
>> I will find you. I'm with Whitar Consulting. I do want to put that on the record. It's a It's in based out of Texas.
>> Oh, good.
>> John Leman is one of the top elite.
>> We're part of a
>> It's a PI company or is it consulting? He's the top tier.
>> Oh, good.
>> Um, Whitestar Consulting. He's been a good friend of mine. I trust him wholeheartedly.
>> That's great.
>> He's an awesome person, him and his partner. Um, we have one of the best cases that come to us
>> and we take care of cases that no one can take care of.
>> Yeah, I absolutely know who I would look who I would call if I ever needed a PI and that would be you.
>> Yeah. And right now I'm working on another case for Latia.
>> Yeah,
>> the cartel.
>> I know exactly where she's at.
>> Oh, really?
>> Yes, I do.
>> Okay, let's talk more right after this podcast. Uh well, Michelle, it's been so wonderful to have you on the podcast again. You would be my first call if I ever need uh information investigator.
>> Uh but I'm happy like you said, you become friends with all the people that you get in touch with and I can see why
>> and you we now for sure I consider you my friend as well. I'm happy that we
>> I'm your friend forever and whatever you need um I'm here for you.
>> I know you are
>> 100%.
>> I know you are. You you're awesome. Keep doing what you do. You have a skip tracer on staff
>> and you have an investigative journalist on staff for you too.
>> We can go uh in, you know, go in the jungle.
>> I love it. The world is the the the dirty world out there is our oyster.
>> Michelle Gomez, thank you so much for being on.
>> Well, thank you so much, Mariana. I It's an honor. It's a pleasure. It's a great experience to be on this beautiful show and I wish you the best. Heat. Heat.