Transcription
It's a funny game, man. I always explain to people like, cuz they have this this fear or this risk factor that they have in their head, and they only want to risk a little bit, so they only put in a little bit. And I'm like, if you understood the math, a little bit is actually a much bigger risk than putting in more money. It's way more risky cuz the percentage you have to sell to break even is much higher when you have less leads.
All right, y'all. Appreciate you getting on. Uh, John Wetmore back with another episode of the Insurance Insiders podcast. I have uh someone was referred over to me. Tom is Foscho, if I pronounce it right, which he says is a lot longer. He gave us the short version. And uh, dude's killing it. How how how young are you, dude? You look pretty—You look like my kid's age.
I'm 25.
25. Half million bucks your first year.
Yes, sir. My man. What's your background? Where'd you come from?
Uh, so I originally started uh at AT&T, and then after working there for four years, I actually got like a a four-year like anniversary email, and I was like, man, I've been here for four years. I've got to, you know, I've got to get out of here. So, I immediately started looking for jobs that pay six figures, no college degree. Of course, the only thing I saw was like sales jobs, which was like solar, pest control, and insurance. And um, at the time I'm actually from Alaska, so uh solar didn't make much sense to me. So I was like, that's ruled out. Pest control, I was like, I don't like bugs. I don't want to talk about bugs. Nothing. So I just went straight into insurance. And um, I actually went into property and casualty to begin with, and that sort of got me like acclimated with sales, and I worked there for a couple of months before um getting hit by Cody Asin's ad. Uh, he was talking—somebody was making six figures with life insurance. So, I was like, "Okay, let me try to sell something higher ticket." Googled how to become a life insurance agent, and here I am.
Who'd you find?
Uh, Eric Schmidt. He was running it.
No way.
Oh, hell yeah. Schmidt's my guy. I love it. I love it. I'm not surprised. He probably called you back in 5 seconds, too.
Oh, yeah. He's a machine.
Hell yeah, dude. Schmidt don't play, bro. I used to send him recruiting leads or recruiting appointments. So, it'd be like, "Hey, here's an appointment at 2:00. Here's one at 6:00. Here's one at 4:00." Like we'd set up the appointment in advance. Every time I sent it to Schmidt, he's like, "Appointments, I call him now." He just ignored the appointment. He would call him right when we sent them to him. He's my favorite. He's—He's a boss.
Um, that's good. That's cool. You still in Alaska now?
No, I live in uh Texas now.
So, you do? Shocker.
Yeah. A lot of—lot of people going to Texas.
Austin, where you at?
I'm in Dallas.
Dallas. Cool. Love it. Love it. We got a—We had a big squad in Austin. A lot of people going there.
Okay, that's where my—some of my friends went, like Freddy and uh and Mel—that's who I was thinking of when you were like, there's a gang—other two—Zach and Calval—a bunch of those guys are down there if you know them.
That's funny. That's cool. I love it, dude. Um, so you said no college, right? Did I hear you say that?
Uh, I went for like almost a year and then I realized like this was up for me. So, yeah.
Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. I love it. So when you—when you got—did you struggle at the beginning or what? Actually, let me ask you this. At the AT&T thing, was that sales side too or were you doing service there?
Uh, so it's—well, I'm basically like a a retail consultant. So like when you walk in the store, I'm the guy that's like, "Hey, you know, what do you come to the store for?" Some people consider it sales, but it's really just like, "Oh, you got a phone. Would you like a case?" Or I would really call it like that.
So yeah, you—you—I assume not big commissions in that.
Really?
No. No. Unless you're the guy running the region.
Yeah. Those guys make some money.
Oh yeah, definitely making multiple six figures. But um, I actually took a pay cut going to uh to Property and Casualty because I wasn't hitting like sales goals because I wasn't used to sales. But it got me used to like making cold calls and like, you know, just calling random people up trying to sell them something. So yeah.
What was that like calling just randos?
Uh, I mean, I—I consider myself um like more so of an introvert. I'm not the most charismatic person. So it was a big—big change for me. I kind of like questioned myself. I was like, why did I do this? You know what I mean? Like the Indeed ad said six figures no cause—that's why I did it. But um, you of course had to have to hit the sales goals in order to to be making the six figures. So um, yeah, definitely a lot of—lot of rejection. I was working a lot older leads—all local, of course. Um, so these leads would be like one—two years old. So when I was getting started with FFL, like when I was dialing six-to-12-month-olds, I was like, okay, this isn't that bad. Like I've—I've done worse, you know. Um, but yeah, really just got me used to hearing the word no and um just calling people I don't know and just talking to them.
What—what attracted you to want to work with—I say Schmidt—not because of—just in general—like what did he say that got you like, oh, this is—I want to do this instead of the PNC side—like what was the hook for you?
Yeah. Um, so one of the main things was just like how high ticket like life insurance is. So, um, 75% advance, you know, commissions starting at, you know, 70—80%, and then you could easily, depending on your sales, you could go all the way up to, you know, 120 or building an agency—145%.
Sure.
Um, and also just being able to have like—have control over your own time, cuz I was still—I was—I was a captive agent for Allstate at the time. So, I had to, you know, report into the office—specific time.
Yeah.
Um, basically regular 9 to 5. And at that time I was also having some conflict with my boss cuz I wasn't hitting sales goals. So I was like, man, if I could, you know, not have somebody breathing down my back, then that would be awesome. And also he just like, you know, he introduced me to some other guys in the group that were fairly new and that were also killing it. Um, like Maddie—I know he was just on here too.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. Like, man, if—if he could do it, then—then I could do it too because like when you're in the Zoom—like listening to these people—and I think he does that with all his recruits—like he'll have them like come and listen in on the Zoom—but I'm like—I'm like, man, they're not—they're not doing anything that's like, you know, super—super extraordinary. It just sounds like normal people having normal conversations. So I was like, if—if they could do it, then I could do it too, you know. So yeah.
Were you in there yesterday when I popped in or no?
Uh, I—I believe so. I believe so. I don't know if you knew. I don't—because I didn't know a bunch of people. I knew a handful of people in there, of course. I saw—I saw your last name in there. So, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So, my son Braden is 17, and he's been working with me at the office. We just—having him doing like, you know, clean a toilet or get up tissue. Just not really that bad. But we just have them—I just have them here—just trying to figure out how to like go from, you know, a kid that just gets to go to school and come home and no big deal to like, oh, he's—I'm almost an adult. Let me learn how to start doing some stuff. Um, so I just have him around the office, man, learning. And uh, the more he learns, the more he's like, can I—because he always like, "How much do I make?" I'm like, "Well, you're not really doing anything, bro, but cleaning up a junk room. Like I'll—I'll probably overpay you, but it's still going to be no money relative. You know, make 20 bucks an hour or 15—whatever—we pay him 15. I don't even know what I pay him to be honest. My status is it—and uh—but it's hourly, right? And now we had some stuff to sell. I had a bunch of equipment, old camera equipment that I just—trying to figure out this podcast. I'm like, "Hey, sell it. I'll split it with you." And he's like, "I like that better." Now he's making money selling equipment, and he'll get to keep some of it. Yeah, and he'll see—like every once in a while I'll write a policy or he has me train on it non-stop, and so he—he'll hear—he'll hear a lot of y'all talk, and he's like, maybe I should do that, and I'm like, dude, I can get you making phone calls now, so when you're—he turns 18 in November, you can be ready to go, and he was like, I'll try it, and we did a run—we did a like a obstacle mud run with Freddy and all those guys, and so he got to meet him—yeah, we did the—so he got to meet him, and he keeps asking—And so yesterday I—I—I hit uh Madison up this week and I'm like, "Yo, would you be open to helping Braden like with some dial stuff and put him in your room?" He's like, "Hell yeah." So we threw Braden in yesterday. So I'm—he's going to start dialing today. Obviously, he can't sell, but he can start getting on the phones and booking appointments. Yeah. So he's going to get the call reluctance and everything out the way. That's like the main thing that holds people back. So just having that—not having that off the gate is like—he's going to be killing them.
Kill them.
Yeah. So I'm going to put him in with y'all. I'm like, I see all these young kids killing it. He ain't got to listen to dad near as much. So, go—go—go in there. So, I'm excited for him to learn from you, too, bro. It'll be exciting. He's going to crush it, man. I'm excited.
What?
Um, so when you were the captive deal, what was like your day-to-day like there—like requirements? Did you have a certain number of phone calls you had to make or contacts you had to make or what was that activity-wise? What was that like?
Yeah. Um, so the day-to-day, so we would just hop on in the morning, and there's like a 30-minute to an hour call, you know, listening to uh the main person—we'd listen to was Grant Cardone. We were in like his uh—it's like a LightSpeed University something.
Yeah.
So we're just taking all his courses—like listen—having pages of notes on all his stuff. Um, and then we would just like start dialing honestly. So just had an automated system that kind of just like would be dialing—year—leads from one to three or even more years old like these.
Sure.
Very old leads we were dialing um and just getting a lot of nos. So uh, we didn't really have like a—well, it was a talk time goal. I think it was three hours of talk time.
Okay.
To hit—of speaking to people.
Speaking to people.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So as you know, most agents don't spend three hours trying to speak to people.
Yeah.
Three-hour talk time's a big number.
Yeah.
Yeah. That was the ideal for the day. Um—
Yep.
And then, you know, ideally we close a policy or two in a day. Uh, some policies—like not all policies are the same. So auto home is going to be the the meat and potatoes. Everything else—like motorcycles—you close one of those, it's kind of like—h—it's like a child policy.
Yeah.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, you know, your regular 1-hour lunch break and then just do the same thing. And you're also helping traffic that comes into the store. So occasionally you might get a policy or two after uh from that. But um, also a lot of service work involved too cuz you're actually like helping with the claims, getting it to the adjusters, connecting people.
Got it.
Got it. Got it. So the bigger your book gets, the more you got to be a customer service rep or hire someone—staff, admin, whatever.
Interesting. Would you get paid on something like that on average? Say the—the standard meat and potato type policy, you sell one, what goes in your pocket on average at that stage?
Uh, so it was—it sort of works like uh—if we hit a certain amount of—
Mhm.
I forgot the what the exact term was, but I guess it's like items.
Um, and they have car.
Yeah, we'd have to like 20 items at least, and then we could get our commission. So, if you did anything below 20, you wouldn't get any commission. You didn't get paid. And in the—So, if you didn't have like 20 vehicles, homes, whatever insurance, so 20 items had to be covered.
Yeah.
For you to—
Got it.
So, I uh—Or you're just living on your base. I assume we had hourly too.
We had hourly too. Like—was 500 bucks a week or something. I want to say it was like 13—14 an hour something like that.
Oh, it was pretty low. It—It wasn't really—So 4—500 bucks a week you're making.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So um, of my like five—six months there, I only hit commission like twice.
Dang. Was bad.
Um, but the commission on those times I did hit it, it would be like one was 2,000, another one was like 2,500. So, it still wasn't like, you know, crazy money or anything. But, um, I guess that did two things for me. So, one, like, you know, just from being in that environment for a little bit. Um, got out of my shell, like sales was like completely off the table for me before, but getting that four-year—four-year anniversary, choose your free AT&T swag. I was like, man, I've been here for four years, so I was—I was ready to do anything. Um, yeah. Also, coming from like making like 1,800 a month, um, jumping into an opportunity like FFL, like when they break it down to like, yeah, that's just a couple of policies. I'm like, wow. Like, this is a no-brainer for me. Like, sign me up.
Sign.
I love it. I love it. So, t—take us through the beginning, man. You get started. You get your license. I assume he gives you a little bit of training and some leads. It's like, get on the phone.
Yeah.
Yeah. What was that like?
Uh, so got licensed um immediately, you know, started going through like a rabbit hole of—
Oh, you only had the PNC license before.
Yeah. So, you had to get licensed. We got it. Makes sense.
Yep.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, after I got licensed, uh, the main thing I started with was uh uh Steven Ye—his—he had like a university—like teacher.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I watched like all the videos on there, took like a ton of notes, and then um, I think it's natural for every like—every person coming into the business to fall into the rabbit hole of like YouTube videos, FFL. I watched like every FFL Hall of Famers like YouTube videos. Um, a lot of Cardone—um—saw some like Zach Moreno stuff that interested me in telesales because in Alaska I was like, there's no way I'm door-knocking out here cuz it's, you know, it's negative—it's negative outside, and it crashed my car when I started. So I—I didn't really have a car either.
Were you in Alaska when you started?
Yeah.
Got it. Makes sense.
Yeah. Um, and I was actually like—So what I would do—I went to agentpro.com, and I bought like a pack of a thousand leads. The only state I had at the time was South Carolina. So I would wake up at 5:00 a.m. and dial those leads up until I had to go—had to leave for work. So like 8:30, go to work and then come back and like try dial like other leads when I got back. So I think I had—I had Alaska and I had uh South Carolina is what I started with.
So had it.
Yeah. Um, but I was doing that for a while. I closed my first couple policies uh beginning of the year, and like after closing those first couple policies, I was like, man, like I've made more than, you know, I would make in a whole day in just like a couple of minutes—like an hour call. Um, so I quit my job like towards the beginning of the year there and went all in on life insurance and then uh used the money from those first few policies to invest in like, you know, newer leads because at this time I was tapping into the Zoom a lot, and all these guys are like, yeah, I'm working vet leads—I'm doing this—from doing that. And there was this one day I asked Freddy. I was like, "Hey, how much are you—how much do you spend on leads a day or a week?" And he does some math on his phone. He's like, "Uh, 2,100." I'm like, "2,100? Holy cow." Um, but just seeing like—I—I asked everybody, and all of them were doing it. So, I was like, "Man, I mean, if I want to have the results, I got to do what they do." So, you know, I put—I already had everything on credit cards, got my Chase card, $10,000 limit, uh, started running the $300 spend on there, and, you know, slowly—300 a day for those that missed that.
300 a day.
300 a day.
Um, and slowly but surely, you know, the amount goes up, post-dated policy pays, and then, you know, pay it off, and then you're—you become profitable. And it's been—it's been like that since then. So, yeah, that's crazy. What was that? 23 or 24?
What year was that?
January.
You said January. So just last year.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Nice. So interesting. So you figured that game out pretty quick.
Yeah.
Yeah. The—the—the put it out up front, be nervous. Oh [ __ ]—I'm putting all this money out, but it takes a minute to come back. But if you reinvest it the right way, that—that—that wheel runs really smooth. Yeah, just seeing like how much each policy pays. I'm like—it was—it didn't—it didn't have to be like a complete emotional decision for me because like—it—it logically made sense. It's like, okay, if I'm paying $300 uh for leads in a day, if I close at least one policy, like I'm at least breaking even. So the goal is baby policy.
Yeah.
Yeah. Like one sale a day, be okay, you know.
So good point.
Yeah. To cover 300 bucks a day. It's a lot easier to do on—however many leads that get you—a ton of leads, I assume, to be able to work. Give me around like 20 leads a day.
Yeah.
So, and these are fresh—fresh leads.
Yeah.
Like fresh 20 live leads all the time. So, basically means you got someone a call all day long for the most part.
Yeah.
It's not much of a dial and grind dial, but I assume you build up inventory. If you're doing it like those guys, as you build inventory, you keep—you keep tapping back into them.
Yeah.
Then it's like—I'm not—I don't feel like I'm overdialing leads. I feel like, you know, perfect amount of leads. Um, it decreases like—like sales pressure, commission breath, just cuz I'm like, "Okay, if you don't want to buy, I got a lot of other leads to call, a lot of people I call in the day, you know what I mean? Whereas before it's like, man, I got to—I got to make my money back."
Hell yeah.
I was really like, "Are you—are you sure you don't want the insurance?"
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It's f—It's a funny game, man. And I always explain to people like, cuz they have this this fear or this risk factor that they have in their head, and they only want to risk a little bit, so they only put in a little bit. And I'm like, if you understood the math, the little bit is actually a much bigger risk than putting in more money. It's way more risky because the—the amount—the amount of the percentage you have to sell to break even is much higher when you have less leads, you know.
Um, that's crazy. So did—with J—that was January. Did you kill it the first month once you figured that out?
Uh, well, it depends on killing it. But, uh, compared to like lead spend, I like—I kind of broke even. So, I issued 18,000.
Um, couple chars in there.
Yeah, of course. But, yeah, it was pretty good.
When did it get—when did it get good? When did you go like, "Oh, [ __ ]—this is working."
Uh, I'd say around like—I'd say around March. So, first month I did 18,000. Second month I actually moved from uh from Alaska to Oregon. Um, because I just recently got here in Dallas. I was in Oregon like last—this—this March. Um, so during that whole move, Wi-Fi issues, getting everything settled. So, I only did 20,000, but I was like, wait, I worked less than I did last month. I issued a little bit more. Something's, you know, I'm getting a little better. Um, and then, you know, March I was fully settled. So, I'm like, "All right, I'm just going to lock in and, you know, um, do what I need to." So, March, I issued 32. And then April, you know, the deposits started getting a little bit crazy. I issued 52 in April. Then I was like, "Okay, I got this. This is my—This is a game."
What do you—What do you put in a bank if you issue 52? Ballpark. I know chargebacks, persistency, there's a lot of factors. I get all that, but ballpark for those that just don't get the numbers, what does that put in the bank?
Yeah, if you're issuing 52, um, you'll probably put around 30—minus lead spend.
Okay.
So, spending 30, you're doing the 300 bucks a day. So, 2 grand a week, 2—4—6—8. So, you're netting 20.
Gez, easy.
20—low 20s. Low to mid 20s.
Yeah. Without any backend money yet, really.
Not especially—not at that stage.
Yeah. No renewal money yet, none of that stuff. No overrides, no nothing.
Yeah. And also my uh—in April I was at—I think I was at like 90% comp whereas I'm at 120 now. So it's—it's a lot different as far as like—it covers your whole lead spend now.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's a big—big difference. Obviously, you get that from doing a lot of personal production. You can—you can work your way up.
Yeah.
That's sick. What's your best month?
Uh, my best month—about 70. That was uh July.
Okay.
No, actually—no, that was—is it October or November? It was around Ignite time.
Okay.
Yep. So already speaking at events.
Yeah.
Yeah. That was my—my first time.
How'd that feel? How was that?
Nerve-wracking.
Nerve-wracking. But I feel like uh, you know, it's—it's—it's always the anticipation that kills you, but when you're actually on stage and like the words are flowing out of your mouth, it's uh—you kind of zone out, and you know, it just happens 100%. It's the lead-up that gets all of us, bro.
Yeah, it goes away.
It does. It does go—or at least goes down a lot.
It goes down a lot.
Um, I remember the first time I had to speak, dude. Mine wasn't even on a stage. It was at the front of a room—like think one of these.
Have you ever been to anybody—anybody's office yet?
Uh, have you been to any like walk-ins or anything like that yet?
Yeah. Yeah, I was in uh—I was at Dave's lockin last May, and—
Oh, you were?
Oh, cool. And I was uh—was at J Mask's office um in August. I—I go to Dave's a couple of times a year. I don't know if I was at the one in May. Um, but anyway, you know, they tend to get—when they're doing the training, they have, you know, 20 people in a room, and someone stands up front. Well, they asked me to come to the front of the room of 20 people and talk, and I was like, "Oh, uh-uh.
I ain't saying [ __ ] up there, bro. And the guy's like, he goes, "You're killing it." I'm like, "And he's I go, "All right, how about this? I'll come up there if you ask me questions and then I'll answer them."
So the first time, this was in 2015. And I sold half almost half a little under half million that year. And in the summer, same thing. Everyone was like, "Holy [ __ ] look what he did." And they wanted to hear me talk. And I was like, "Uh, uh-uh, I ain't your guy." So I for very first time speaking I made this dude stay up there with me and I'd only do it if he asked me questions which now you see people that do like uh panels right to help with that. Like we see that come it's like hey put you on a panel it's much less intimidating for for some people and now I can't shut up. I speak on stages in front of rooms all the time. So it's kind of funny. It gets better. I love it dude.
If you're in the insurance space and trying to build an agency, or you're trying to like break records in sales, just hit new levels, new heights, click the link below to apply to my consulting and coaching program that I have out there. Um, I'm helping tons of people get to new levels, get to new income heights, help them build their teams, put systems in place, staffing stuff, recruiting processes, automations, um, and just teaching people how to get to a point where they're selling on their own pen, 30, 40, 50 grand a month. And if they're building a team, teaching how to have an effective structure to your insurance agency for the most profitability you can, there is an application process. I'm only looking to work with like high-end people who really want to make big things happen.
Couple recent clients that we've had in the in the coaching program. One dude as an individual went from selling like eight grand a month. Barely getting by about to quit the industry, found the book, hit me up direct, started a coaching program, went to 35k his first month, has issued like 150k in the last 90 days, and has changed the trajectory of his career working with another agency builder. Very first month, went from doing like 800 grand a month to almost 1.1 million. We added like 10 or 15% production in 30 days and continue to work on things there. So, if you're interested, click the link, apply, and if you're a fit, I'll reach [Music] out. Cool.
So, give them give them some tip. Let's give them some sales stuff, man. Um, whatever you want. I'll let you pick. Obviously, you do this. You've taught it. You see agents coming in and out. You see people on the Zooms that quit. You see people on the Zooms that mess it up and don't learn the sales stuff. You know what I mean? Like all the pieces that they do incorrectly. Um, just share whatever you think. If someone's out there's like, "Yo, I'd love to put 50 grand in my account in a month or net 30 or whatever your number whatever number excited them." Um, just give them give them wherever you want to start. I don't care if it's phone sales stuff, you pick. I'll let you you guide.
Yeah. Um, man, I'd say overall just starting out, you need to first get rid of like call reluctance. Um, so like when I first started, even though I was coming from like All State, because I wasn't very like well-versed in life insurance, I was doubting myself. Um, I was almost scared to make phone calls again. So, I would like like I would hit the call button and then pull my hand away like I just touched the hot stove. Like it was it was that bad. Um, but once you get rid of that call reluctance, you're going to run into a lot of nos. And you know, once you run into the nose, you start learning like what your bottlenecks are and everything. So, um, it might be in the intro, maybe you're talking too fast and, um, especially if you're selling, you know, older clients, that could sort of put them off. They might not be able to understand you. Um, it could be, you know, it could be in terms of like trust, um, you need to sort of like preface the call, set yourself as an authority. Um, or it could just be, you know, once you're you're getting into the app, um, you're getting certain objections like social banking. But I'd say overall uh to somebody starting out, what I'd recommend is um cuz I I went through like a whole rabbit hole of YouTube videos online, people crushing it. I'd say find somebody within your agency that's actively crushing it and then try and copy what they do. That would be the quickest way to get from like zero to starting to have consistent uh results. Um but overall, the game is pretty simple. I'm like, like I said, I I consider myself more so of an introvert. So I almost look at sales as like as like binary almost. It's It's kind of weird, but they say one, I say zero. They say zero, I say one. Uh, but I call up into into different
Explain that. I want to break that down. I'm curious what you mean by that.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, if they if they a lot of the times you'll get the same objections and people saying the same things over, you know, majority of calls. So, just having like responses, rebuttals that, you know, for certain work. Um, an example I could I could give you of this is like let's say at the end of the call the person's like, "Oh, I need to think about it." I'm like, "All right, that's the objection. Next step, I have the objection. I need to isolate the objection." So, okay, you know, completely understand you need to think about it. It's a it's a big decision. Is that primarily the the price like what what package you want to go with you need to think about or or is it, you know, whether you actually need the coverage in the first place? Um, so that it kind of splits it off into a fork. There's two different things. the price or whether they need it. If it's the price, they're like, "Yeah, I'm not sure if I could if I could swing the gold package right now." I'm like, "Okay, well, you know what a lot of people like to do in your situation, they're debating between a couple different packages. We typically go for the lower one to begin with that we know, you know, is comfortable and sustainable within budget because we could always keep we could always increase your coverage in the future, you know, if it is comfortable within budget. But at least this way, you know, your final expenses are taken care of and there is something in place. God forbid anything happened to you. Does that sound fair? They'd be like, "Okay." Um or if they say, you know, I need to think if I I actually need the coverage. Um you sort of go back to I call it the needs analysis part of the call. Uh so that's where you're pretty much like gaining getting all the ammunition, putting uh quivers in your um how to exact term, but little backpack or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah. In your in your backpack. Um, yeah, you did the needs analysis part correctly. You could then circle back to like, for example, with one of my clients, they were they were like, uh, yeah, my son, you know, he's just getting back up off his feet. He's sober now. And, you know, my health is declining. I want to make sure that, you know, I'm not adding another thing on his plate. So, you kind of circle back to that, like the why, and I'm like, okay, so as a mother, you know, it sound like you wanted to make sure that, you know, if anything were to happen to you, there's not more stress on him than, you know, he's already facing. Um that's why you you you sort of wanted to have this discussion, right? And you know, you sort of lead at that. But yeah, that's that's kind of that's an example of like how I break it down. It's like binary parts, but the sale overall is, you know, it's just like the intro at the beginning. So I always tell people you don't want to seem more enthusiastic than they are. You want to sort of match or be, you know, slightly below their energy because, you know, life insurance, it it could be a morbid thing to talk about. You don't want to seem like an enthusiastic salesman. something Stephen Ye he kind of pounds in like his his course and everything just be monotone disgruntled state employee. Um so after intro after the intro needs analysis. So make sure you're asking the right questions. They need to have a why because if there's no why there's no buy of course. So like why are we on the phone call? What are you looking to accomplish? And also figuring out their current situation like how much they have disposable. That's going to help prevent you know objections later on. cuz some people you get to the end of the call they're like well I have a million in the bank I mean and I'm like well if if you did I mean we wouldn't be on this phone call but um yeah just figuring out their current situation uh what current coverage they have how much they have at the end of the month um after the needs analysis you jump into the underwriting so I recommend everybody use toolkits it's pretty easy just enter in the health conditions it'll let you know which carriers are most likely to approve them for what rates and then you just break that down into three different packages is um after going over the benefits, make sure you go over the benefits um before you jump into the rates. That's another way to prevent an objection cuz uh a lot of people will be like, "Oh, can you send me the information?" And I'm like, "Well, the it would pretty much be redundant to what you have written down right there, just with a lot more legal jargon that could be confusing." And they're like, "Okay, that makes sense." So that that kind of, you know, gets rid of that objection. But um I always lead with three packages. The gold, silver, and bronze. So if they're looking at taking care of a burial, those typically range from you know 10 to 20,000 depending on how fancy they like to be. So bronze 10,000, silver 15, gold 20. Um and then you know then you sort of ask for the sale. The way I ask for the sale after picking shown three different packages is I ask so after looking at these, you know, three packages here, John, is there one you feel, you know, would make the most sense to leave behind for the family to take care of things, but also fit comfortably within budget you'd like to see if we could possibly get you qualified for. So that's, you know, sort of touching on why they need it and also making sure it does fit within budget to prevent chargebacks and whatnot. So yeah.
Yeah. I love it. Do you How do you get into This is just me being curious. Um how do you So you said 10, 15, 20. How do you how do you how do you end up at a policy for say 40 grand or 50 grand final expense? Like do you ever get there and how do you get there if your gold like how do you know when to adjust your package prices? You know what I mean? Like how do you gauge that?
Yeah. Um, so in the needs analysis part, I'll ask them, uh, so are you primary, so if they're looking at final expenses, um, have you given thoughts whether you'd want a a more formal burial or a cremation? Let's say they say a burial. I'm like, okay. And, um, do you know roughly how much those cost in in Georgia? They're like, oh yeah, for my sister it was 15K. I'm like, okay, would you say you're maybe looking for, you know, 15 to 20,000 to take care of this sort of thing? And some people will just tell you flat out right there. They're like they'll say, "Yeah." or they're like, "Well, I was actually looking for, you know, around 40,000. Leave some money behind for the wife." Um, yeah. Or you'll pitch those three packages. You'll get to that point and then they'll bring it up then and it's like, "Yeah, we could we could look at any amount you want." Yeah. Um, but if they're if they're like young enough and healthy enough for an IL, um, I'm typically pitching like larger increments. So, Mutual Omaha, they start at 25,000 for the IL. So, I might pitch like a a 30, a 40, and a 50. And then, you know, they could
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember ear I asked because I remember early on when I was taught the business early, I would always I was taught to show 8, 10, and 12,000. That's what you show 8, 10, and 12. And everyone picked the 10. And my average policy was 29 bucks a month. Oh, man. And then Sean taught me. He was like, uh, and some of the other top guys started teaching me to go, and this was a long time ago, right? But they go, "Why don't you show them the most they're eligible for?" And just tell them, "Hey, my office requires I show you the most you're eligible for. So, the most we can get you with this plan is 40 grand." And then option B is, and then I would do what you did with the two lower amounts, maybe 10 and 20, maybe whatever it was based on that. And dude, the amount of people that started picking 40 grand was mind-blowing to me. I just didn't know that was going to happen. And I was because I didn't push it. I was just like, "Hey, the most you can get is this and then we'll work in your budget. Here's two other options. Where where's your head at, dude? All the time." That's when I started getting like $250 a month policies and $182 a month policies and stuff. Just that one little one little tweak um change changed my world. So, I was just curious how you get there.
Yeah. Those small tweaks lead to big changes sometimes.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um [ __ ] I was going to ask you something else about it.
Oh, I got it. So when you you talked about like your your your I don't know if the why is the needs I assume needs analysis is kind of where you try to sort of figure out their why you said earlier if there's no why there's no Would you say there's no why there's no buy is that what you said? I caught that earlier. I don't know if the others caught that one. Um what are like your non-negotiables there? Cuz as you know and you probably messed it up early is like not getting enough. So what is it you're looking for in that stage before you're willing to proceed? Are there are there markers or how do you how do you know?
Yeah. Um man, just really looking for like a concrete reason that we're on the call cuz some people they'll be very low like intent and um they'll say I just wanted to see you know what's out there. You know when I hear that I'm like it's probably not going to result in a sale. Um, and in that needs analysis part, like a lot of times they'll, one of the questions like I always ask is like, "Do you have any sort of coverage right now?" And they're like, "Oh yeah, I have, you know, 20,000 in place right now." And then I'll sort of dig deeper. I'm like, "Okay, well, honestly, you know, Mr. Remmore, you the 20,000 you have in place right now is enough to take care of a burial. Um, is there anything that makes you feel like that wouldn't be enough or makes you want to look into getting more coverage?" And then that's when they'll they'll tell me like, "Oh, yeah. I want to I want that to take care of the barrel and I want to leave something a little additional for my wife or I want to, you know, make sure uh the mortgage is paid for a couple months, you know, cuz my my wife can't pay for that herself, you know, things like that." So, um really just having like a because if you don't have a Y, you don't have any ammunition either. Like later on, if you get an objection like uh I'm not sure if you know this would make sense for me or if I need this. Well, if you don't have a why, you can't really fight that.
Yeah. Can't use their words. It's very powerful when you can use their words against them.
Yeah. Yeah. But I I'd say it kind of kind of comes with time. You have to feel it out and get like a concrete. If I feel like it's not concrete enough, I won't proceed. And if they're like, I just want to get a little something extra. Well, okay. Why? Why do you want to get a little something extra? You want for the family, leave money for the wife, for her to maintain her quality of life cuz she's going to be losing your income? like what is the exact reason you want more income. So don't be afraid to dig a little deeper because in the end it's it's just going to help you out, give you more ammunition to use at the end to overcome those objections because yeah, I find a lot of people struggle there where they get the initial one and they're like, "Got it, that's enough. Let me move on and it's very easy to like for them to weasel out of that down the road." Um, you know what I find funny too is like I can remember when I figured out like you could feel it. It's like, "All right, this one's this one's closing." You kind of like you would know a good majority of the time, whereas like I don't know, you ever show pricing and it's like a coin flip? You're like, "I have no idea if they're going to pick one or not." I think when I was new, I had no idea 95 98% of the time. I was like, I don't know what they're going to do. But then as I got better, only maybe like 20, you know what I mean? 25% of the time, I was like, kind of a coin flip. I have no idea what's coming, but I'll give it a shot. Um, I think what I remember learning too is like recognizing a lay down too and sometimes I would I would just because the script said so I would dig so deep and this guy's begging to just buy and kind of learning how to does are you there yet where you can kind of read it and be like oh this cat just I can skip the BS like meaning if you did that to me I'd be like dude I tell people now if I'm going to buy something and they're harping doing their thing. I'm like, "Dude, I'm in sales. I know. Just skip. Just I don't need that part. I'm buying, bro. I'm the easiest sell ever. Just get to it." Obviously, they don't do that. So, sometimes we have to adapt or we can I've lost them trying to dig too much sometimes, which is weird to say.
Yeah. No, I did that a lot in the be the beginning, too. Like my script has changed like a lot over time. Um, one of the questions I used to ask like everybody, and I would like like regardless of what they said, I would always ask this question is, um, well, you know, if something were to happen to you, uh, or if something were to happen to to you, how would your wife feel both emotionally and financially? You know, and that's kind of like a I've had people hang up on me right after that question because like this guy is you got to have a really good tonality for that.
Yeah. That's a very scripty like like it works some but it also doesn't work some too. That's a good example. I like that one.
Yeah. Um but a lot of the times like you won't have to dig too deep with those. I mean with people that are lay downs like they'll pretty much tell you straight up like hey I want to get it for x y and z reason and in that case like if I feel like it's strong enough like I'm just on to the next thing. So you don't want it just takes time for those watching. It takes time to be able to feel that and see it. It's like there's a lot of reps and dudes just had a lot of reps in a short window. It's funny.
Yeah, definitely. You get better at feeling it out over time. But yeah.
Yeah. What's your thoughts on scripts just in general?
Um, man, if you ask the guys, I'm probably the most they call they call me AI Tom because I'm like the most scripted person. Um, I haven't memorized at this point, but you know, I don't look at a script when I present anymore. It's pretty much just all from from memory. I try to follow it as close as possible. And uh that's I I would say that's why I kind of look at sales as binary because it's like, okay, I have this system. I have these rebuttals and it gets me x y and z close rate. Like I'll close, you know, 25 to 33%. Just a matter of running x amount of people through this system and I'm going to get x results. So, but yeah, more more than anybody, I'm probably the most scripted. But you have to you have to have the versatility to come off the script and also like bring somebody back onto the script if they're trying to um you know take charge of the call. If you don't have like if you don't have control of the call then it's going to be a hard sale for sure.
Yeah. So are you recruiting and hiring now?
Trying to. Are you just selling? Are you
Yeah, I have uh two agents right now. Um, one of them is is selling. Uh, hasn't sold a policy, but is dialing. Um, the other one kind of kind of fell off a little bit, but
How's that adventure going?
Uh, it's it's a different beast, obviously. It's different beast cuz like I I'm like the least salesy person. Like I try not to be. Um, and you know, it's sort of like having that conversation with people, you kind of feel a little bit salesy. I try to just tell my own experience. Um, and it's like I don't want to follow up with people because then it seems kind of salesy. I'll shoot them a quick text and you know, yeah, it's it's a different beast for sure. You're feeling it, right? So, think about this. Just like they're they're trying to close. They are trying to sell and they sound kind of salesy.
Fair. When they're on the phone, when they're new, we sound salesy on the phone. Why is that, do you think? Why are we that? Why are we sound salesy?
Cuz we're not as comfortable.
Okay. Yep. Why are we not comfortable?
Not enough reps.
Correct. Okay. So, now we go to you. Why do you sound salesy trying to recruit?
Not enough reps.
Amen, bro. Does it make sense? It's the same game.
Yeah. You know what I mean? And you'll get to a point, dude, in the recruiting if and if you watch any of us that that do it at a high level, if you will, like we're not pitching like we did at the beginning. In the beginning, I was pitching agents. It was I was selling them on doing this. And as you start to do it more and more, I'm selling people on why not to do it almost. You know what I mean? Like I'm talking about the difficulties and the like I'm I'm almost like it almost sounds like I don't want them because I really don't. You know what I mean? I I want the right people. So, it is learning to do it in a way that's like trying to identify the things you really want. So, as you're doing it, pay attention to the things you thought you told them along the way. Yeah. And the way they respond based on what they heard, okay? Cuz it'll be different, right? They'll go against what you thought you explained and you'll be like, "Why is he doing that? I thought I was pretty damn clear on how many leads to buy or what to do." You know what I mean? Like, you'll be frustrated in a sense. And so as you do it and and they they frustrate you or there's things you dislike after they get started, those now become part of your discovery equivalent on the recruiting side. You'll ask more questions that are directed by the things that annoy you later, like I want to think about it in the sales presentation. It drives you nuts. So now up front you word things differently so you don't get there. ideally, you know what
I'm saying? And the recruiting side the same way, but early on, just like we want sales, we want agents. And so we we skip the process sometimes, or and or we don't even know it. We we do what we think the process is. You know what I mean? And you'll learn, dude. You're around such good people that understand it with with the reps. You you'll figure that piece out. And again, you're selling enough that you don't really need the agents. You just want to build something cool and help people get paid and do all that jazz. If you do it for those, you you'll be fine eventually. It's just that's a lot of reps, dude. I um I did hundreds and hundreds. Uh, my first two years I did 600 interviews, and at the end of two years I still had no regular writers. I'd have people get started and they quit and get started and quit and get started and pl I was kind of an ass to people. You make sense? So it was kind of a combination of both. Um, but once I figured it out, man, the thing the thing blew up pretty well. So, love it. Get effing paid. Get effing paid. Get effing paid. Get effing paid.
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Anything else you want to add that you think is important maybe that didn't that I didn't ask you or you want to share with people or just things on your mind that you think will help help others win? Anything come to mind?
Um, I guess for for new agents, um, the most important part is just being just being coachable. Like, it's not a it's not a complicated business. Um, you know, you buy more leads, you have more conversations, more presentations, you're going to make more sales. And at the beginning, you're you're going to suck at sales. You know, just just like I suck at recruiting right now. I need to I need to get more. Uh, as you get more reps in, it just becomes more easy, more natural, and becomes more of a numbers game. So, yeah.
You online, social or anything? If people want to follow you, I assume my team already asked for all your info, but I'll let you share it here, too.
Uh, Tomfo Show on Instagram right now. I love it. Easy sharing the journey. Yes, sir. You putting it out there? You are. I love it. I love it. That's good stuff.
Anything while I got you on here, um, we got a few minutes. I'm actually I think I'm I think I'm interviewing Freddy next, dude. Yeah. Uh I am. Hell yeah. Anything that I can help with while I'm on here? Any questions you have or anything you're just [ __ ] curious about? I'm like, hell.
Um, yeah, I guess more so on the recruiting side like like getting started. Um, so I I actually moved out here to Dallas with like the sole purpose of like I want to build, you know what I mean? I feel like this is a good play. This is like a place I want to anchor as like my home base like moving forward. Live here for, you know, decades. Um, and I want to build something huge out here because I feel like this is an amazing place for business. So, I don't really know anybody out here. I have like two friends out here that I knew before moving here, but you know, like what advice would you have as far as like, you know, starting to have those conversations, starting to to build something out here?
Are your friends in the space?
No, they do something else.
No, they do something else.
Cool. Makes sense.
Um, are you just working from the house?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think early on man it's um it's finding a way just like the sales side to have a lot of conversations right it's like so who can you have the conversations with no different than in insurance right in insurance we can do friends and family we can go cold or we can buy leads that make sense friends and family cold buy leads those are your options and you could go get referrals that's kind of the warm side right those are sort of your options on the lead side those are the same options on the recruit recruiting side. So the question is, do you want to do friends and family? Do you want to recruit people you know, talk about it with people you know, or do you not? Does that make sense? Like who are you? Are you okay talking about it with your buddies? Are you like, eh, just not my thing, right?
They're pretty
Yeah. They're kind of like locked in on on their careers right now. So yeah. So there you go. So And mine I didn't I didn't want I didn't say yes to that really either. Does that make sense? I had some buddies. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not really the guy to pitch some shit." Like, they see me doing it, they'll ask. And I hired some and I tried, but I it wasn't my favorite thing to do.
Um, right. So, then you go, "All right, what are the cold options? People you don't know, right? Waiters, waitresses, Ubers, people that seem like they're sharp just in in your everyday life, right? So, that's one option for you to just talk to people. You know, I sit down with someone that's a really good waiter. I'm like, I engage and I don't pitch them, but I'm like, "Yo, what's up, man? Is this all you do, bro? You're really good at this. What's your what's your background? Do you do something?" And I'm just I'm just talking, you know what I mean? Just creating relationships with people and see if there's an opportunity for someone that's looking for more, you know? But if you have enough conversations, just like sales, enough of them fall in line and go the right way. It's not like an awkward pitch on every stranger I see at the gas station or anything. I'm not into that.
Yeah. Right. But if I see opportunity for someone sharp, I'm open to I know how to create a conversation and guide it where I want it to go without it seeming slimy. You know what I mean? So I can get there. Um, you can go cold on social a couple different ways. You can certainly create social and hope like hell the world figures out a way to follow you.
Yes. Does it make sense? Like, dude, I post every day on every platform and and I get a good following, but if I relied on just that, I I I would not have any size agency, you know what I mean? So, for me, that's a very long-term thing that pays crazy dividends now relative to when I started doing it. But, it works and it's a it's a delayed gratification game. So, if you're going to play the social game, play it for the long run. And my advice that I would give you that I wish I did better is document the journey the whole way. Don't wait until you feel like you're amazing or hit some level before you start talking about it. Because quite frankly, people are going to relate more to you than they are to me. It's just the reality. Especially when they're new cuz they're like, "Oh, dang. He just started last year and is killing it." Whereas I'm supposed to be winning at this stage. You know what I mean? So, it's like I'm less inclined to get the the the newbie agent reach out. I'm more inclined now to get the guy that's killing it that doesn't know how to get to the next level. That makes sense. They see everything I built. They're like, "I know how to sell. I want to build." I get more of those today. Right? So, you can post your stuff. For me, it was like a billboard. My social media is a billboard. It's an advertisement of everything I got going on. And now, all I got to do is find a way to fill people, get people to it. So, when I speak at events or I create an email list or I give away free documents on social, I can I can attract people to my funnel of my world. So, a little bit of that. And then the other option is you can straight up DM people, right? That's another piece on social. So, hey, see you're in the business. I help people issue 500K a year in the life space. Wondering if you're happy with where you're at financially or you're open to a conversation. Okay. I I sent that to 100 people a day, bro. Like today, like No, during my early buildup. Now, today in my agency, we do that thousands of times a day because I taught everyone how to do it.
Oh, Jesus. Does that make sense? I don't I don't send the DMs personally anymore. That's Does it make sense? Cuz once you build it, no different than you don't have to call age leads anymore. Does that make sense? Cuz I'm going to give you the free ways first cuz those are all free. All these so far are free.
Yeah. Right. They're easy to turn on. And as you're starting to build, the real way is to get you not be the only one building. If you're doing it by yourself, it's harder to grow than if you have a crew of people also wanting to build, right? Right? So, I taught people how to do it free because they weren't in a position yet to pay to do it. So, I gave people free ways to do it first to see if they would actually take action. Right? So, I would go on LinkedIn. This is back in the day. I'm not saying LinkedIn's the magic today. I'm just telling you what I did, right? 2014, 15, 16, 17, dude. 100 DMs a day. I would go on LinkedIn and you can search. I can search whatever criteria I want. company, title, final expense expert, mortgage protection specialist, life insurance agent, agency builder, or I could search ABC company, XYZ company. I could do whatever I want. Friend them, once we're connected on LinkedIn, you can send unlimited DMs, right? In today's world, your age, Tik Tok, Instagram, all the stuff you mean like share your journey there and then find if again DMing is an option. You choose whether or not you want to do it. It's high volume, low reward, but I can give you crazy stories about massive success stories that have come from doing it. You know, the percentage is low, but it can it can hit and it's easy to do. Um, last thing you can do is every client you talk to, bro, you're selling a lot of apps, right? You ever thought at the end to go, "Hey, Bob, quick question for you, man, before I before I run. Obviously, I told you I'm crazy busy. I got a lot of appointments. There are a ton of Bobs out there looking for help. Half the country doesn't have insurance. I happen to be hiring. Do just quick question. Do you happen to know anybody, dude, that's looking for some extra money that can do what I just did for you? Do you know anybody?" That's the way I did it. I didn't try to pitch the client. I just They knew I was busy cuz when you book it, you tell them how busy you are. You know what I mean? And typically, you're late and you're running behind and all these things. So, I was like, "Dude, we're growing like crazy. I get a ton of requests. I'm hiring, you know, here in Dallas. Do you just happen to know anybody?" And dude, I I would if you ask I mean how many people do you present to a week to a week? I'm getting like three to six a day. Imagine you just ask three to six people a day, dude. If they know anybody that could just do what you did for them, you're bound to get some people go, I need extra money. My cousin just got licensed. My buddy, like you, my buddy was in PNC and he's not happy. He's looking for something else. He's looking for something. I'll refer you. And I it would just it was creating conversations, you know. So I did a combination of all of those things because I wanted to talk to 30 people a week about the business. That was my goal. There's 30 give me 30 a week. And then on once and I this this next piece wasn't hard for me to understand, but it's hard for most agents to understand how to invest in getting because you can get unlimited recruiting leads today if you start paying for them. Um it's just like client leads. And so the last option is to pay for them, you know, and you can buy recruiting leads. There's they're they're literally you can get them at will. Um and I just started investing because I didn't want to do the other stuff longterm. It was cool. It taught me a lot. Taught me how to have conversations. It built thick skin. It taught me how to hear no a lot. I dealt with like [ __ ] That's a scam. You're an idiot. F off. It It taught me all that piece on the recruiting side. And then I was like, "Yo, let me just pay." And then eventually we started paying just pay for job ads. Here's mortgage protection specialists. Call vet leads whatever wording you want. it's relatively irrelevant, you know, but you can get unlimited people in right away and then you just pick up the phone and call them, you know, and then you could just like everything else get advanced and go, "All right, I get people in, send them to a landing page with a little video explaining what we do and give them an option to book on your calendar." You can do all that, too. You can get more and more advanced with it if you want. Um, but it's going to be learning how to just have a lot of conversations, dude. And and and you're already on the phone with clients, so it's like, and I'm not saying be weird about it. Don't go over the top. Don't be a lunatic. Don't be, you know what I mean? It's just like very casually, especially if you have a good connection. If you have a shitty connection, it is what it is, you know? But I I've just I've hired a lot of clients over the years, and I've hired even more clients, family members, friends, children, things like that. Um, that just needed opportunity, you know. And then again, for me, it was paid and then how to scale it. I started teaching other people, do the free stuff first. And when you're sick of the free stuff and you want to pay, let me know. I can get you the leads, you know, and anybody can. It's not like cuz I have magic ones cuz they are still just everyday average people and most of them are going to suck. But it's weeding through people to find some good ones, man.
Yeah. You know, and and the better you understand how you can help people get paid, the better you learn how to articulate that and come off in a way that you're just looking for this type of person that you're not needy and des the commission breath, the whole thing. Yeah, so many people do that on the agency side, too, you know, but when you're making the money you're making and you just want to actually help people win, it's a very different angle of conversation, you know. So, just just be willing to go through the reps, man, and and and understand you're going to believe in people that aren't going to work out, and it's going to be frustrating, and you're going to want to bang your head against the wall because you see how easy it is. But articulating that ease to other people is a challenge cuz you got to keep in mind, they have their whole world around them, and all their noise in their life is telling them everything. You know what I mean? So, you're always going to fight that piece. Um, so for for you, if you want to build dude, it's an everyday battle, everyday grind, and with time, you'll find some good people and you won't be the only one in your group doing it. And then you start catching some momentum. You know what I mean? It's just a it's a much more delayed gratification game. You don't see the impact for 3 to 6 months when you're building. Whereas when you're selling, you see the impact in 3 to six hours. You know what I mean? It's like quick. The building side is way more delayed gratification. It takes time. But you got such good people around you, man. My my advice would be just start learning how to talk. Go aim for speak having 30 conversations about Have you ever watched Trey Honeyut?
Trey Honeyut.
I've seen he's been around forever. He always says, and I forget his number, but it it's ballpark 30 people a week. He goes, "Take three to five people every day from not knowing about the business to knowing about the business."
Mhm. Just that simply. If you can get three to five people a day that don't know about it now to know about it, you'll have success long term.
Got you. Okay. And those are just some ways to do it. I'm sure you're smart enough and can think of other ways. You know what I mean? But those are those are a few different ways that that I've done it. So,
Gotcha. I'm definitely going to definitely going to implement that for sure. Like I like the because I'm already sort of like trying to build like on social putting out content. Yeah. Um, the DMs, I feel like that could possibly work. It will because they're going to come see your content the minute you DM people, they're initially going to go to your profile. So, your profile better be something attractive to them. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that would help with like getting like local people, too, cuz I feel like that's one of the main things with like because I I was in Alaska, there was I don't think there's any offices out there, at least none that I knew of. It was like a lot harder to to start up and like get selling and everything just completely through. But if I had somebody I could just like that's like sitting right next to me. I could porn like correct be much that much easier to make them successful. So and if I were doing it from the beginning today I would do all that and I would as soon as possible I would h I would have an office space cuz I could create a different kind of culture than everyone sitting at home in their PJs kind of hoping like hell they get on a Zoom. You know what I mean? So, I would create a local I I'm all about the Zoom thing, but I would definitely create something local cuz you'll feel different, too. Getting to engage with people daily.
Um, so I would do that as soon as you could. Go like, "Yo, let me let me run an office. Let me and if you haven't been to some, you should go visit a bunch and see how they run because the ones the dudes that build offices kill it."
Yeah. When would you uh when would you like recommend getting an office? Like at what stage?
I hell I had one my first month in, bro. 300 because you can you can always get a shared space. You can get something cheap. Does that make sense? You can get one of those shared office spaces for three, four, 500 bucks a month. You You don't have You don't have to do anything massive. Now I own buildings. But early on, bro, $300 a month office, bro. Come sit sit on the floor, dude. I don't have an extra chair. Pull up a carpet. That's how we started. It wasn't anything fancy at all, dude. It was ratinfested. It was dirty carpets. It was disgusting.
Yeah. I mean, it was it was boiler room [ __ ] early on, you know? But we were making money, you know what I'm saying? It was just people got to see the grind every day and I got to engage with people and talk to people and you know what I mean? It's it's just a different game. Um, so I did it early. So as soon as you're serious, you know what I mean? I would I would heavily highly consider like, you know, maybe I do something over here.
Okay. Yeah. I was thinking like I forgot where I looked. It was like a office cafe or something like that. But I couldn't find anything that was less than like 2,000 a month. But when you say like shared office space, I'm like, okay, that's more logical to start out like correct more like that. Again, you get a shared conference room, you can use so many hours a day, you know what I mean? Like they have all that's they have a ton of those out there. We work was one of them. I forget the name of the other company that does it, but there's there's a shitload of them. There's one right by my house where all kinds of people just from all different backgrounds just pull in and use this office building. You know what I mean? And it's it's pretty common out there, dude. So, it's it's easy to find if you if you're looking for the right thing, you know, and you can always upgrade down the road.
Yeah. Makes sense. No, my dude. Well, I appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for uh getting on and uh if I can help you along the way, man, don't be afraid to reach out. Appreciate it. I do this, too. Uh if you want, I have I have like some merch that I usually let people get. So, if you go to my website, if you like any of the stuff, I'm like a do more and get [ __ ] done kind of guy. If you like anything, just let me know and I'll send it to you free. Just pick out like a shirt or hat if you want it. You know, go check it out the merch site. If I could send you anything, just let me know and we'll get it to you.
Sounds good, John. I appreciate you, man.
All right, my dude. Appreciate your time. Have a good one.
You too. See you, bro.
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