Transcription
I'm just so fascinated by all this, especially what President Trump said this morning about Doge and wanting to turn the Doge chainsaw on Elon Musk. And what he said out loud is something that so many people has been blindingly obvious, even to President Trump's closest and strongest supporters: that Musk benefits so greatly from government contracts and subsidies. We might have to put Doge on Elon. You know, you know what Doge is? Doge is the monster that that might have to go back and eat Elon. Wouldn't that be terrible? He gets a lot of subsidies. Say hindsight is 2020 for everyone. He would tell you that he believes that Elon Musk made some mistakes, or that he made some mistakes by allowing him to have this kind of control.
Welcome to the Tara Palmeri Show. To think just three weeks ago Elon Musk was whispering sweet nothings over X at 3:00 a.m. to Trump, trying to get him back, admitting that he went too far when he accused him of not releasing the Epstein files because he's in them. Basically the equivalent of "call me baby." But now Elon Musk is back to threatening to take down the Republican party over the passage of the big beautiful bill through the Senate. He says he's going to create his own America party. And since he's the richest man in the world, shouldn't the Republican party take this threat seriously? I mean, a third party is a spoiler at the very least, especially when Elon says he's going to back congressmen like Thomas Massie, who refused to vote for the bill because of how much it balloons the deficit. It's supposed to add an estimated $3.3 trillion to the national debt.
I've been a journalist for 15 years. I have traveled all over the world with the Trump administration. So, I had to find out just how they're feeling about this. So, I sat down with the former spokesperson for the Republican National Committee, Elizabeth Pipko, about how much anxiety they're feeling. Is this the ugliest political divorce yet, or just another one of Elon's egofueled stunts that will fizzle by next week? And what if this time he doesn't back down?
Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining the show. Is the RNC, or should the RNC be concerned that Musk, who is the richest man in the world, says he wants to fund an America party? And and we're really not sure exactly what um tact this party will take. It's certainly a fiscally uh responsible, you would say, um party considering he is backing people like Thomas Massie who are really calling for austerity. Uh, do you think they should be concerned about this America party?
You know, it's interesting because all of this, you know, every time this happens, even though it's just a tweet, it's all that we want to talk about because obviously it's the richest man in the world. It's someone who was so close to Donald Trump, who was literally, you know, in the White House with him every single day, who kind of changed the landscape of the campaign last year when he backed Donald Trump after that um, assassination attempt. So, obviously, it's all we want to talk about even though nothing has happened yet. I would say obviously if somehow Elon Musk actually puts in the effort and the money and everything else to start a new party, yeah, both parties should probably take a little bit of time to look at that; it would be very interesting. People have talked about serious third parties in our country for a very very long time, with nothing real ever coming out of that. Sometimes these are like spoiler candidates in elections, but no one's ever really won a majority of the vote obviously with like a third party presidential run. So it's it's an interesting concept. I know a lot of people um in both parties actually share like an anger with the establishment of their own individual parties and would look to see what Elon Musk would do with that.
I'm not taking it super seriously because, like you said, this was a middle of the night angry tweet and we've seen those before from him, and I don't actually know what it means. I think all it means right now is he's upset about the bill. He's upset probably about the way he parted ways with President Trump and the administration. I don't blame him; it looked very messy from the outside. The fact is nothing real has happened yet. But yeah, there's something to be said about the fact that there's a lot of anger from people all around the country, whether they're in their own parties or not, right, about the way that the Republican party and the Democrat party have functioned over the years. So, it's something people have talked about, but I don't think an angry middle of the night tweet really means much right now. I don't think this isn't the first time he's mentioned this, though. This is the second or third time he's talked about funding another party. Um, I had Andrew Yang on the show recently and he said uh he would take he would happily take Elon Musk's money, and you're right, they're spoilers. So, I think you do have to take them seriously. There there's a lot of concern about that.
And the people that he's going after, the people that he would be backing are in some ways even more MAGA than Donald Trump, like Thomas Massie, who's very principled when it comes to the America first policies and is on President Trump's target list right now because he won't back the big beautiful bill, saying that it adds too much to the debt. And Musk has already whipped up some ads that he or at least some banners that he plans to use against, you know, 10 of the most vulnerable uh or probably more than that, Republicans if they vote on this bill. And really, you only have, you know, you have three seats to defend. Um, and if Democrats win, they will most likely impeach President Trump. So, this is a this I don't think you can not take this seriously.
Yeah. I mean, look, like you said, people are going to pay attention and take it seriously because it's Elon Musk. At the same time, they had this giant feud a few weeks ago, which I thought was embarrassing and crazy, and the entire world couldn't stop looking at, and then it faded away, and everything went back to, you know, "please be my friend again." So, I think we'll have to see what happens. I think a lot is focused on the bill right now. Things could change. You mentioned Thomas Massie. I don't think there's just the issue between him and President Trump over the bill. President Trump also didn't appreciate his comments on what he did um over in Iran backing Israel. That's been an issue that Thomas Massie has talked about for some time, where we've all known that he definitely waivers from President Trump and how he sees MAGA. So, I think we'll have to see what happens. I don't think Elon Musk tweeting out that he's going to support one random congressman means too much. I really don't, based on how, you know, in and out of politics Elon Musk seems to want to be. But, of course, we're going to see what happens. And it's it's going to be a lot to talk about no matter what.
I don't if he's just some one like random congressman, then why are why is Trump's MAGA pack, you know, that's being run by Trump's former campaign manager, Chris Lassivita, ready to spend 10 to 15 million to take out one person in one seat? I think Thomas Massie is a bigger threat than that. In fact, uh my producer Eric was just telling me earlier that like he really likes Thomas Massie. He has hutzbah, and that's sort of what attracted him to Donald Trump, and Eric would identify as MAGA. I mean, you'll have to ask Donald Trump himself. I'll never speak for the president, but yeah, when you when you come up against him on issue after issue, I think President Trump has made his power well known in the party. Um, I think he's made it well known that when you come after him, he'll hit you back 10 times harder. It's kind of what he's famous for, even long before he came into politics. So yeah, look, he's one congressman, but he's one congressman that can be taken out if Donald Trump says so. And that's um where we are. And I think, like I said, I don't think it's just about the bill.
Will it be easy to take him out with Elon Musk's money? I don't know. I don't know. We're really This is really a test of the MAGA base. I mean, test of Donald Trump's like endorsement power, Elon Musk's money, and a lot of what the party actually wants moving forward. Right. When Donald Trump took out Iran's nuclear sites, there was a lot of conversation on the right about whether this was America first. I believe it was. I believe Donald Trump did exactly what he has said for decades he was going to do, and I supported him the entire time. But that doesn't mean he is not himself aware that there's a lot of conversation in the party in the right-wing about what is America first and why he took those actions and what the future is going to look like. So I think a lot comes down obviously to what happens after the bill because the focus right now is on the bill. It's on um the expiration date coming up with July 9th for the international deals as well, and then we'll we'll get more into it. But the fact is President Trump is the leader of MAGA. He is MAGA. I don't think anyone could possibly be more maga when he's the reason that we use that phrase right now to begin with. But it's going to be interesting to see what happens when you come up against President Trump 2.0 because again it's this is a new Donald Trump. It's only been a few months of the administration. No one knew what Donald Trump 2.0 would look like. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in the party when you go up against that.
Were you surprised to see President Trump 2.0? I mean you were the Republican National Committee spokesperson during the campaign. Do is this someone that you didn't expect during the campaign?
No, not at all. I I still don't understand why people call this man unpredictable. I think if you have watched him and listened to him over the years, like I said, even before 2015 when he announced that he was going to run, he has remained the exact same person. He's remained the same politician, he's remained the same across the board on issues, whether we're talking about But you're saying 2.0 vers 1.0. So explain to me the difference between 1.0 and 2.0.
Yeah. I mean, he's Donald Trump of 2016 was a Donald Trump who had never held political office. It's Donald Trump who had never been impeached, who had never been um, as he would put it, uh, gone after with a quite a quite a heavy uh, witch hunt. It's Donald Trump who didn't have a mug shot. It's Donald Trump who wasn't threatened with jail time. It's Donald Trump who didn't know how to be president. Obviously, he didn't have the experience. It's a different Donald Trump. I think if you watched him, if you listen to his words, it's exactly what I would have expected. But it doesn't mean it's not going to be a different version of himself because I mean look at what has happened to him individually, to the Republican party, to the country between 2016 in 2024. So of course Donald Trump 2.0 is going to look different. I think if you have been on board with him like I have since 16, everything he's done and everything he says is to be expect, but it doesn't mean it's not going to look different from the first guy that we got and his first time in the Oval Office.
Yeah. He switched from being for H1B visas. Obviously, those are for highly skilled workers. He at one point said we should staple a visa onto the diploma of every person who graduates from a university in America. And um now he's against H-1B visas. Um he's also changed his he's wavered on his H2B visas recently, saying there should be exceptions for restaurant workers, farm workers, etc. So, he has sort of he has a different stance on immigration certainly from the first time around. What do you make of that?
Yeah, I mean I think everything is your circumstances, right? I mean I it's like when I debate the the Russia Ukraine situation and people tell me it's like old school uh Republicans, I'll call them like pre-maggot Republicans will tell me I wish we had the Donald Trump of 2016, of the Donald Trump who wanted to stand with Ukraine no matter what. And I I tell them Donald Trump in his first term was not up against the war that we're up against right now. Circumstances change everything. thing and the fact is if Joe Biden wasn't in office for those four disastrous years we weren't in the situation you might see a different Donald Trump, but he has to respond to what happened not only in his first term and then not only what happened to him individually but what happened to the country obviously his views are going to uh change or evolve when it comes to immigration when you look at the fact that millions of illegal immigrants were allowed into this country and that he believes he was elected to put a stop to that and make a change that the American people are asking him to make when it comes to that issue alone. Immigration is a huge issue. It's one he ran on in 16 and it became a greater issue almost in 2024 because of what Joe Biden and Kla Harris had done. So I think for him he's the same exact man but he's a man that has to deal with very very different uh scenarios all around him and that that's going to make you change a few of your views of course.
Okay. So Musk lobbies against this big beautiful bill on X. He's got more followers than anyone. He owns X obviously, but for some reason he's getting more and more followers as he lobbies against this bill. Do you do you think X is a safe place for honest political debate, or do you think it's being weaponized?
You know, it's a good question. I am really really piss poor at social media. Even though I I know it's part of what we all do and I have to be better at it myself, but I don't like it because of what I've seen on there because I think it's too difficult to decide every 10 seconds that your opinion is so important that you have to let the entire world know about it and then it's on there till the end of time. So for me, it's something I struggle with. I think it's very strange that it's become such a big part of our everyday. However, I think when you are someone as powerful as Elon Musk, you've got bigger problems than, you know, a tweet that you put out here and there. So, no, I don't think it's it's dangerous. I think it's obviously a safe place. I think it's great that we've gotten to a point where people feel that comfortable with social media and with the fact that they can reach the thoughts of any person that they admire or want to reach or u maybe their political leaders or whoever else that they want. I just think it's it's interesting how much actually happens on X at this point.
Is it really a safe place where you can spread disinformation so quickly? I mean, you've seen it happen. He's spreading disinformation about the bill probably that Trump is trying to pass, right? Probably. But I would argue it is safe to be able to say whatever you want. And that is safety in America considering that every single person has the ability to go out there and get, you know, the facts right on whatever it is that they read and want clarification on. I would argue that is safety in America that you can say whatever you want and not face.
Why is President Trump suing like 60 Minutes and other news organizations? Does he not see it the same way that you do?
I mean, I think the 60 Minutes issue that was the the interview where Kla Harris's answer was cut. Correct. Yeah. But yeah, I mean again I I think but is that a reason to sue a news network for editing? You know, honestly, I would have to ask the American people, but I I would assume yes. I think if if you are responsible for information, if I took this interview with you and I decided to cut one of your answers cuz you were going on for too long, would that be considered something that you could sue me for? I mean, honestly, probably not. And honestly, I don't think I'm as important as Kla Harris. So, I don't think enough people would care, unfortunately, about anything I said or didn't say. But I think when you're running um in presidential election and you know how important your words are, I think these news stations know very much how important it is what they do and that they have responsibility to the American people. And we'll see what happens in the end of the case obviously, but I think enough people even who didn't like Donald Trump would have been upset knowing that they were being lied to by news organizations for sure. I don't think Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily being lied to if someone uses editorial decision on how to package something. Um, but I do want to go back to Musk again because I'm just so fascinated by all this, especially what President Trump said this morning about Doge and wanting to turn the Doge chainsaw on Elon Musk. And what he said out loud is something that so many people, it has been blindingly obvious, even to President Trump's closest and strongest supporters, that Musk benefits so greatly from government contracts and subsidies.
I mean, it's part of the reason why he never touched the Pentagon. He never went after the Pentagon with a chainsaw. He went after NIH, he went after HHS, he went after veterans, you know, he went after all the places that he wasn't personally impacted, USAD, but the places where he was, uh, NASA, Pentagon, nothing, right? And now Trump is openly admitting it. You know, he he rents a la a launchpad from Nassau. 20-year rental for a dollar. It's insane. Okay, granted, he has to upkeep the launchpad. That's part of his end of the deal, but he has incredible incredible government benefits, subsidies, and contracts. And now Trump is saying he wants to doge him, too. Um, but is that just like a bad is is letting him have this position in power for so long in Doge to be able to sort of rearrange the government to his will in the name of, you know, cleaning up government spending and waste and abuse, which is obviously popular with people on both ends of the aisle. I would say I think Democrats and Republicans can agree that no one likes waste, fraud, and abuse when it comes to taxpayer dollars, but really to be using it to benefit yourself. And now President Trump is plainly saying that that that is what happened all along. Isn't that bad judgment on Trump's part?
You know, I'd say hindsight is 2020 for everyone. I'd say the idea behind Doge, like you said, is one that the entire country would support, regardless of what party you're in. I think some people were more critical than they would have been if it was done in a a different administration. But I think in general, like you said, most people do not agree uh that our government is doing a good job with our tax dollars and should be, you know, blindly trusted. But um obviously I think if you would ask President Trump today solely based on that post that was sent out whatever last few hours, last night, he would tell you that he believes that Elon Musk made some mistakes, or that he made some mistakes by allowing him to have this kind of control. I can only imagine based on what he's putting out that he would agree with that. I think with that being said, maybe uh the power behind Doge and what it represents and what it can still do even without Elon Musk, maybe because Elon Musk is gone, could mean more uh than any of the mistakes that had been made with him being in there. I think we'll see what actually happens to Doge now that Elon is gone. But look, like you said, President Trump is trying to make this second administration all about transparency. I always believe that he was the most transparent and authentic politician, and I think people appreciate that. And I think if he's going to bring attention to someone that he brought in there himself, I think that's actually super transparent. I would hope that we continue to do it. Like you said, Elon brings a lot to the table and has done a lot for our country, but it doesn't mean we can't look into what is happening here, the benefits that he's getting at the same time and if what he was doing while in that office leading Doge was actually completely fair or not. So, I'm curious to see what happens moving forward. I don't know if this is going to continue to blow up or it'll end with a
Nice, friendly back and forth, um, conversation on X. By the time you and I are done with this conversation, I think we’ll have to see what happens. I just think that the idea behind Doge meant a lot more and will mean a lot more over the years than any uh issues that could have come up between Elon Musk and Donald Trump.
Yeah, but it’s really hard to reverse mistakes with government. I mean, I don’t know if you know anything about federal government, but it does move slowly. It does have inefficiencies, but the but the things that probably a lot of things that were cut, it’ll be really hard to fix them if there were mistakes. And I think the fallout will be over 10 years and the way that they move through it with like a chainsaw, not methodically at all. I mean, we’ll only know how this is going to be impacting people. I was talking to a doctor, um, we’re going to her show is going to come out in a week or so about how she was working on some life-saving, um, blood pressure medication and she lost her NIH grant funding and they’ve been working on it for 20 years. You know what if there are other programs like that? I think that what I don’t understand why he went after health and human services. It’s like the most important probably department out there if you think about it. Impacts every single one of us.
Yeah, it probably, I mean I would assume it is the most important department out there. I think in general maybe because it’s the most important department out out there, it deserves the most, um, looking into. I would say in general a lot of people came to the table arguing that. And I don’t think if more American I don’t think RFK Jr. would be in the spot that he is in if more Americans were not actually concerned with this department. And it actually intrigued me during the campaign because I didn’t realize how many Americans cared about that department and about what that part of our federal government was doing. It honestly changed my own viewpoint because I had no idea he would be that popular or what he was saying would be that popular till I saw it just by meeting voters around town who wanted to meet really nobody else but RFK Jr., if Donald Trump was not around. That was their number one. And I had no idea that it was going to be that much of an influence on the campaign. So actually I would argue maybe because it’s so important that should have been the number one spot. Although obviously if mistakes were made I’d want to look into what you just mentioned. That’s horrible and we should look into that.
And I can only imagine FAA. Why would he be going after cuts to the Federal Aviation Administration? Like we all fly, again, safety. Why is he going after safety when there’s tons of glut in the other areas that just so happen to be part of his contracts? Like right now he is literally fighting for his subsidies and contracts, the wind, solar, new energy programs that will be reversed, um, in the big beautiful bill. But, um, I guess I want to move on to what do you think? Is this bromance over?
I honestly don’t, people everyone keeps asking again. It’s the only thing anyone wants to talk about is this this bromance. Um, they were really really good friends. I can say that from someone who just you know who watched it happen and who saw it. So I don’t think it’s over. Last time they I mean there were worse insults spewed out than what we saw now. I thought what Elon said was I mean out of control, actually what he was tweeting out and yet they you know they spoke after I think or at least things calmed down. So I’d be curious to see what happens. We also know Elon kind of toyed with the idea of getting involved last year and then didn’t until Donald Trump was shot in the head. So we don’t actually know how he feels about getting involved and being as involved as he was. I don’t think he enjoyed his time in politics. I really don’t. Um, but I would be curious to see what happens. I I also think Elon Musk is not a Republican, right? We have to keep reminding ourselves of that he’s not. He’s someone that chose Donald Trump in the last election and he’s someone that before that I think for many years was openly on the left. So I think we’ll have to see what happens, why he supports what he supports. And of course Donald Trump has been in office what 6 months now. So I think we’ll have to see what continues to happen. I I would hope for America’s own sanity that the late-night attacks on Twitter at least stop. I think that would be nice.
How does the RNC even fight his money though, Musk’s money? How will they do it? You know, if you if you look at what happened, I would tell you in the New York mayoral election, even though I’m disappointed with what happened in that primary, it proves that money isn’t everything, right? I remember everyone telling me that it helps when Trump’s on the ballot and he’s not in 2026, right? I mean, in general, Republicans don’t do well when Trump’s on not on the ballot, right?
Yes. We’ve learned that. Um, I think in general, we’re going to have to see what happens. But a lot of people told me when Bloomberg came up behind Cuomo that it was over for Mani and that was it and no one should worry anymore. And that I told them that elections have changed for both parties and money no longer goes as long away as people think that it does. There’s a reason mom Donnie won and I may be disappointed with that result, but it tells a lot about the party and a lot about how our election process has changed and that money certainly actually is not everything once someone has natural grassroots support. So, we’ll have to see obviously what happens and how things evolve, but it’s it’s changed so much on both sides of the aisle. We don’t even know what an election is going to look like without Donald Trump on the ballot like you said. So, we’re going to have to see what happens.
Yeah, we’ll see. I mean, Thomas Massie’s race has certainly become nationalized for sure. Um, so and that will test Trump’s power. The big beautiful bill, though, is probably one of the most unpopular bills in history, and that’s across the board. Quinnipiac poll shows 55% of people oppose it, 29% of people support it. Is this a bad bill, or is this bad messaging from the Republicans?
I think it’s it’s I wouldn’t even say bad messaging. I would just say there’s so much messaging at once, people can’t keep up with it. I mean, I was trying to follow just what happened overnight, right, while I was sleeping, and I couldn’t follow everything that happened. The bill is still changing as you and I are speaking right now. No one knows what’s going to happen. I think JD Vance, um, showed up there at the chambers this morning at 6:00 in the morning. People were expecting him to be a tiebreaking vote and nothing has happened yet. It’s been, you know, hours since then. Things continue to change. There’s also so much in the bill. I think it’s hard for people to keep track. And I I do think there’s quite, um, an emphasis being put out there on anything Donald Trump does to make it look negative even before it happens. So I I’m curious to see what happens. I do think it’s going to pass, but I think people are paying attention to the process here more than they normally do because of the effort that’s gone in here because these, um, senators are saying what I think it was over 24 hours, um, now trying to get this done and because most of us have never seen our elected officials work so hard. But we’re curious to see what happens. Things literally are changing by the hour. Amendments are being taken in, taken out. Things are changing. We’re hearing horror stories about certain, um, things in the bill and then they’re taken out two hours later. Every senator has their own opinion and it’s become an interesting fight to witness. It’s become interesting just if you care about politics to see how this gets done. But I do believe that we will have, um, a bill hopefully by by today, uh, that is signed and sent back to the House.
Yeah, that we’re recording by the way on Tuesday, July 1st. Um, if the bill fails though, who takes the blame? Trump, the tech defectors? Look, technically House or House Freedom Caucus?
Uh, well, if it gets back to the House, yes, they could take the blame. I mean, they they’ve already made comments today. I believe the House Freedom Caucus has been making comments based on what has been changing while the bill is in the Senate. So, we’ll have to see again what the final bill is that would end up failing, uh, like you said. But look, President Trump is in charge and I think he knows that. That’s why he wants it to pass so badly. He wants this victory and he wants this to get done for the people of this country. So, yeah, a lot of people will get blamed, but the fact is it’s going to hurt the people of this country and it’s going to hurt the man in charge, President Trump, more than anyone. Um, I believe it will get done. I don’t know if July 4th if that deadline is going to hold. Hopefully, it does because it would be great. Um, again, just for the people of this country and for our hardworking senators to get that break that they so badly want. But, I mean, he knows that the pressure is on him. I’m I’m sure he’s very focused on that and he knows that he needs to get this done and he knows the challenge that he was going to face this entire time because of the size of the bill and everything that’s in there and how many people in his own party have small issues here and there with everything that’s in there.
Democrats seem to be licking their chops though. They want Republicans to pass this bill. They really haven’t fought hard against it. They want to run against it. I mean, does that concern you?
It it doesn’t concern me. Democrats claimed that they wanted to run against Donald Trump in the last election and look what happened. So, no. I think they have their own bigger problems, um, to face. I don’t think this bill is going to help.
Yeah. Although some of the programs are they’re not running against Donald Trump, um, in this election in 2026. In fairness, there only three seats to defend for Republicans and they are going after some pretty popular programs even for Trump’s supporters like Medicaid. So, we’ll see what happens. What do you think?
I mean, again, the argument goes back to what you said about Twitter. People have to do their own research because every day I hear something new and then I have to read about it. I have to read about, um, the the 15, uh, billion I believe it is that would put aside for the rural hospitals people are worried about. I have to read about Donald Trump who says to this day that there are not going to be any cuts to Medicaid. I have to read about, um, the work requirements that people are putting in because no one is talking about the actual details or just criticizing the bill because of course you get easy victories by criticizing your opponents. That’s what Democrats have been doing. So, I think people should do their own research. I think people at the end of the day will be satisfied with the bill and with the tax cuts and with the fact that something was going to get done by our government because it’s always better when something gets done than if it doesn’t. But I don’t think anyone wants to hurt the working class in this country, not Republicans, not Democrats. And I I do think there’s been a lot more negativity surrounding the bill than what’s actually deserved, um, by Donald Trump and by what has But the more people like all of the polls show Fox too, I mean Wapo, the more people research the poll, the more they don’t like it. I I would hope to God that people continue to do their research, but also just that we see what happens at the end of the day. The fact is people obviously have a right to whatever they want to think about the bill. I don’t know how much I believe polling, but at the same time, very often people think things are going to go down a certain way and then they don’t, right? There’s economists that have argued pro and against Donald Trump’s tariffs for months now, right? And then you never know until after the fact what actually is going to happen. We can only hope that if people happen to be right about the bill, I disagree with them. But if they end up being right about the bill that they would have not, you know, screamed or cried wolf this entire time, maybe more people would have listened to them. So, we will see what happens. I do not believe, uh, it is as bad as people think. I think the fact is there’s so much in here. People are very overwhelmed. They’re overwhelmed with the last four years. They’re overwhelmed with an economy that they think is on the way up and they don’t want to tank. They’re overwhelmed with a tariff conversation happening at the same time. Overwhelmed with their own individual senators who each seem to have their own issues and their own positives with the bill. And I again, I’ll be curious to see what happens after it’s passed and after those discussions are put aside and new discussions begin.
Okay. Thanks so much for your time, Elizabeth. Appreciate it. Have a great day.
Thanks. Thanks for having me. That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thank you so much for watching. I want to thank my producer Eric Abbenante, my booker, Jane Fusco, and my team of researchers Abi Baker and Luke Radel. I’ll be back again soon. If you want to support me and my independent journalism, please follow, subscribe, like, comment, share this with your friends. You can go to terra palmary.com and sign up for my newsletter, The Red Letter, and you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. See you again soon.