Transcription
So Mark, I think, um, I'll probably just give a bit of an overview for everyone on the services of FIFO, but actually how BSA have used them over the years. If I reflect in the last couple of years, FIFO have, um, done anything and everything for us from an initial gap analysis on our systems and some bowtie risk analysis workshops to understand, um, what critical controls we should be having in place as it, uh, fits in with our risk profile. Um, I guess the other additional things early on in the FIFO space was they helped with some overflow resourcing where we were having some challenges in having senior safety professionals to support a lot of projects and respond to some operational needs. So Mark and the team stepped in and led that at the time.
In addition to investing serious investigations along the time, Mark, oh, and we've also recently done our HSC index as well, which has helped really align our safety strategy, um, with valuable feedback from, from our people. Over to you, Mark.
You look, uh, thanks Bex. That's, you know, it's been great working with you and thank you, Maya, for your continued support in this space. Um, a really important topic and we look forward to sharing more learning, um, in the next couple of webinars. So today is all about a bit of a recap initially and then a real focus on checking. So that the verification in the field and the broader evaluation of critical control management programs.
So just a really quick recap. Webinar one, we spoke about really tailoring your approach based on your level of maturity, um, the needs of the business and the strategy. I mean, different ways you can go about really understanding where you're at today versus where you want to be and methods to, to action and improve, um, either through, um, a guided workbook that we provide clients or any other means you think are important based on some of the external resources that we've been providing over the course of the last couple of weeks. Um, as we step through the, the approach, we've really started to focus, um, in rolling out a critical control management program to align with international standards on management systems with the view that most organizations are familiar with the approach and it's just a great way to integrate critical control management into what you're potentially doing already.
So we, we started off with identifying material unwanted events, um, and then we spoke with it with Adam and Terry around what is a critical control based on those material unwanted events. And then we explained different methods of how to set expectations and standards with Caitlin and in particular the 70-20-10 rule on building capability and high levels of performance. So now that the, the, I guess the foundation's set, it's, um, and there's a level of execution, if you like, it's really how do we check things are going well? Here's a really good case study of an organization that we work with that have implemented or had implemented a critical control management system, um, and now that they went through the process, they identified the material and wanted events, but they sort of dropped the ball, if you like, on the implementation and struggled to really get traction on effective implementation.
So on the screen here is just an example of a couple of material unwanted events in working at heights or electrical isolation or electrical activity working with electricity. And for this organization, they chose not to set targets on volume. They wanted to make sure they were driving the right behavior around shared learning and conversations before setting targets because they thought that might drive the wrong behavior. They also set some critical control effectiveness targets to better understand or where do we want to reach? What's our goal in terms of effectiveness? And where they fell down, um, is despite having identified those material unwanted events, the actual activity that was taking place based on volume was focused on first aid and more trivial matters, which wasn't really aligned with the initial intent. So I don't think there's anything wrong with checking first aid boxes and sailing solution, but in terms of the, the level of activity and resources applied, it wasn't necessarily an area that they wanted to focus. So they were spending a lot of time, energy, and resources potentially on the wrong area.
From your perspective, Bex, I mean, do you have any learning or challenges in around the verification in the setting of targets?
I think on, on this one, I guess in my experience, what I have seen, um, is lots of client-driven requirements where you have to have hitting the numbers of getting PPE checks or first aid checks or those sorts of things. So I think it's a balance of certainly when you see safety professionals these days, it's really focusing on the metrics that matter. Focus on the stuff that's going to actually have the, the biggest impact to lower consequence of that catastrophic event happening. Um, at a, I guess a point in time when we were undertaking some work at heights checklist, what we did find was that as we increased the number of working at heights checklist, we actually saw a decrease in our high potential incidence, um, in the working heights category. So there was a correlation. It might have been good luck or, um, but it actually, the, the numbers did speak for themselves, um, at that point in time.
Probably for you, Mark, one of the things I'm interested in understanding is how do you, an effectiveness rate? What is that made up of? How do you, um, how do you get that percentage? Because it's not just have we done 42 work heights checklist? It's actually what is that effectiveness score and what benefit do you get from that?
Yeah, so I tend to use the analogy of quality versus quantity, and it comes back to the performance standards that the organization initially sets. So for some organizations, it's observations in the field, and that could be a checklist of is the critical control effective or not? Yes, no, and an aggregation of those numbers. Um, for other organizations, it could be some sort of automated mechanisms where there's a self-detection system that happens automatically and it feeds into some other sort of system. So, um, again, not a one-size-fits-all, but usually what we promote is to try and focus on the quality of the control versus the volume of activity.
Okay, so in terms of where to check, so, um, this is a really important slide when we think about that. Depending on your supply chain or the life cycle of your asset or project, um, there's going to be different levels of risk based on either a geographical location, um, the time of projects, or, um, the, the supply chain milestone. Um, a really good example is food safety. So in food safety, there's ISO standards on [Music] these sorts of things that talk about critical control points and the critical control example typically used is temperature and food. So whether that's, um, at the point of purchase or receipt or storage or, or even cooking and then delivering the food at different points along the supply chain, food temperature may need to be at different levels and need to be checked, um, in different ways. Um, and so Becca, I know that you're not working in the food safety industry, but from your perspective, how does this then relate to PSA?
I think, um, what's important, um, when I reflect on, on, on this approach and this slide, Mark, is actually understanding the risk profile for any new project or contract at bid or tender point. So I guess from, you know, from bidding the work and understanding all of those sort of critical controls, so A, you price it correctly, is one of the important things operationally, um, but then also then you can pick that up through and actually, um, I guess flows through nicely through, you know, the construction phase or mobilization phase of the project. And that at those sorts of points, you can actually, um, from my perspective, increase, um, checks or that, you know, you might actually say, well, as we're mobilizing the project, the working heights risk is actually far more prevalent because we're using X amount of EWPs or there's, um, increased risk because there's more people. You can actually overlay then, I guess, the numbers and your focus areas at different phases of the project, um, as it relates to when that risk really does come to fruition or when the likelihood is increased.
Yeah, great. And look, another really good example there, Bex, is even, um, the calendar period. So depending on the seasonal, um, Christmas pack of your organizations, the restaurant for Christmas, you know, how do we then focus on the critical fit?
So in terms of capturing and reporting on this, so this is where a lot of organizations fall down. So it is important to start with the end in mind, both, you know, how is information going to be captured or detected in the first place, and then how are you going to report on that? So there's nothing wrong with starting small through some really effective conversations and storytelling and sharing learning, talking about critical controls as opposed to other things that might be more of a distraction, and just looking at different mechanisms to dovetail into your existing systems. I've got to say, if we think about the, the last webinars that we've gone through, this whole process around checking the effectiveness of controls, particularly in the field, is probably the most exciting part for me working in an organization and either as a consultant. It's just a great way to engage with stakeholders and see what's working as opposed to getting bogged down in too much of the design phase.
Back, when we spoke, um, you know, obviously are a bit of a journey of trying to capture this information. You mentioned already that volumes went up. Is there anything else you want to share around this slide?
I think probably, um, just focusing on getting started to get, um, rather than, I mean, there's lots of complex systems and things that you can use out there, but actually just enacting, getting out there and doing some initial, um, verification activity will help drive what that in-state automated solution looks like because it does change over the period of, of your critical control program, what you think you want when you first start and what will, um, work for the business. And the business will change throughout that period too. Um, so I, I guess if I reflect on this one, it's actually just get started, get some data, um, and then evolve your project, um, as, as you learn more, I guess.
Yeah, great. And, um, some good examples of more mature organizations doing as well. They're able to use this safety software or vehicle monitoring systems to be able to capture hard braking or speeding or pressuring pipes or whatever it might be, and using that existing information or infrastructure they have to get a better handle on what their critical controls are, not only if they're in place, but how effective they are, which is probably more important.
So checking in the field. So Beck, you, you mentioned already that, um, your organizations, um, mobilized your supervisors and different workers in the field to check on critical controls. What was your experience here?
I think there's a balance with this one. It always is, um, with your safety resources getting bogged down and doing the critical control checks and balancing that with actually the end state, which is operationally led. You've got your supervisors out there just looking at the things that matter, which is really, um, the ultimate, I think, for any business is that that's what you're doing. So I think there's a balance between piloting and having safety resources who actually intimately understand the critical control programs and actually educating and bringing people along for the journey, um, but being visible is really, um, the starting point.
Yeah, look, um, apart from being visible, or in addition to being visible, the other challenges many organizations face is how to actually conduct a verification check in the field effectively. So what we've got here, and hopefully it works, is Annette Gray. So Annette used to be on our advisory board and is a leadership coach, and she'll talk a little bit about her approach on coaching and obtaining feedback as it relates to, um, in this circumstances are related to the health and safety index. But if we apply the same principles of critical control checks, um, the learning's still very similar.
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I'm a leadership coach and I have been for about 20 years now, and most of my, the last 20 years has actually been training leaders to use a coaching approach in their, how they have conversations. I think the benefit of feedback, it gives a snapshot of what's happening here and now in the organization and to be able to work with those results. So it's hard data, really, about what's, what's going on. So the main principles behind solution focus is find what's working and do more of it. Using this approach has lent rather than being problem-focused around what's not working. Let's have a look at the results and find out what is working that can be built upon because the fastest change happens from building on what's working.
So a super powerful message from Annette. And now I've learned a lot from Annette in terms of how we provide feedback as an organization, um, either be related to the health and safety index or just general performance, and also one-on-one conversations. So this diagram here that, um, talks about different mechanisms to obtain and work with individuals in providing feedback, just trying to find that balance between acknowledging the past and things that might be challenging, but then being solution-focused. So asking questions around the future, around what's working, where do you want to go? What are some of your challenges? Acknowledging that what will you do more or differently with the view of trying to focus on the positives as opposed to getting bogged down on what's not working.
Becca, I know that you've participated in some of Annette's coaching. I mean, do you have any thoughts around either that experience or how this principle then applied to critical control, um, coaching in the field?
Yeah, I think one of the, um, the opportunities here is actually identifying and understanding what the challenges are and acknowledging those, but not getting too bogged down in actually the why and the how and the history. And don't you understand the last five years we've had this and we've been asking for this. Not getting too bogged down in those, but focusing, I think, like Annette said, on what's working well. But, you know, I think in addition to that is really having those positive conversations, but also being comfortable, um, in the uncomfortable conversations where actually something's not working and you have to workshop that control through with that person on site and actually get that feedback the other way, rather than giving that feedback of, you know, this control was not in place there for you. Your behaviors meant that that's a, that's a negative. So I think it's actually, um, being, being, um, probably a bit bold and confident to be able to flag those, those issues that are just not working. You know, why isn't your fault or S system work? You know, all of those sorts of things and actually getting into the into the detail of why things aren't working, but being comfortable enough to, um, and and sometimes brave because it's, you know, people aren't used to those sorts of conversations. And that moves away, I think, from this whole tick and flick approach rather than actually just having positive conversations about what's working, what's not working, um, and actually having those conversations in a critical control, um, check or framework that's actually going to be the metrics that matter that do help save, you know, and reduce safe people's lives, but also reduce harm to your people across your business. Is sort of my thought. You've got to have be brave and raise those things.
And that's a really good segue back into moving from capturing data in the field and now reporting or escalating that in a way that, um, it could be used then to evaluate the broader program. So if we think about some of the principles that we spoke about in the past, is really understanding where you're at on the maturity curve, where you are today and where you want to be. And as you start looking at different mechanisms to capture and then report information, making sure it suits your organization. I have seen organizations where the, the amount of administration to implement these programs outweigh some of the benefits. So you don't want to get in that situation where you're actually making things worse rather than, um, better, as that unintended consequences of of not really tailoring a system to to meet the organization.
I think Mark, too, it's important, and along the way when you're developing your critical controls, is keeping them succinct and not having 25 critical controls, um, and, you know, whether they're indirect or direct controls to minimizing that catastrophic event is really important because then your data does get very overwhelming when you're trying to look at it and slice and dice it in different ways.
Yeah, yeah, true. And, um, we also spoke about that same principle around what's material. So to your point, Bex, around understanding what's critical to potentially a broad range of stakeholders is going to be important. This is a bit of a slide that I guess helps depict a bit of a story around evaluating the effectiveness of programs. So, um, based on the critical control effectiveness, I guess the other thing to be mindful of is that often, um, there's a, a bit of a, an approach where despite just focusing on three or four things, the, um, the secondary consequence of rolling out these programs is you can actually see benefits in other areas. So the picture on the slide is, um, [Music] a real-life example where I did some work in Manus Island, where we actually had the frontline supervisors reporting on how their critical control management program was performing and sharing stories as a group. So the, the secondary outcome of that is that, um, apart from focusing on the critical controls, there is much greater levels of engagement, better teamwork, and all those, those other, um, outcomes of having really effective conversations and engaging teams.
I think Mark, too, on, on this slide, it's one of the things, if I reflect on it too, is, um, when you start to implement these sorts of things, you've got to be comfortable in having red dots on there, and that helps guide the conversations, particularly to senior executives and boards. They've got to be comfortable in, and I think there sometimes can be this balance of pressure to actually make that green. Well, actually, there's going to be a heap of work to go into actually now, um, I guess influence that over to a green. So, you know, at inception, being really uncomfortable that there's stuff that you've got to work on.
Yeah, look, absolutely. And it comes down, down to, well, can come back to the organizational strategy and where you want to be. So, you know, if the strategy is to improve shared learning or better conversations, it's less about the data or more around the conversations and stories that I had.
Yeah, so this is another case study to point back around being comfortable with things that are red and not green. Um, if it's always green, um, you've got to raise some alarm bells around, you know, how are we actually going to improve if everything's always perfect? This is a real-life example where I was working with an organization, and this was a, a management report, an effectiveness score on both volume and the quality of critical controls. And month on month, it was pretty similar. By digging a little bit deeper, what we determined was that what they were actually checking, um, were things like first aid boxes, um, and PPE, that wasn't necessarily aligned with what they intended to do. And that the, the people weren't going out in the field to check that. So what they were getting was a bit of a false perception of what was reality.
So in shifting the dial, um, being comfortable with scores that weren't necessarily perfect, despite the scorecard looking very red, over time, what we actually saw was a reduction in safety violations with an increase in critical control checks, and also a reduction in high potential impact, um, or as Bec alluded to in her organization, they call them high potential incidents, as well as a reduction in safety violation breaches. Um, so Beck, I'm not sure if this is exactly, um, what happened in BSA, but does this sort of picture resonate to your experience as well?
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it is, as you start to do the work, and the automation of the reporting, for me, when I look at this, is key. Because as you know, businesses drive lean businesses and all those sorts of things, you've got to be able to have systems to be able to capture this stuff. And that's probably one of the challenges we've had is, um, is, is being able to actually have that up in dashboards. And we've now progressing well through to that, which makes it, um, it makes being able to have conversations and influence at an executive and a senior management level to a point where you've got, um, executive managers going, you know, how we not refine this critical control control program because that's the stuff that matters. Um, I think, um, yeah, and absolutely being able to link it into high risk areas, um, as well.
Yeah, and it's not refreshing to to shift the conversation and mindset from the classification injury through to absolutely the quality of the control and a positive solution-focused approach. So mindful of the time, we've got about five minutes left, so we'll have to sort of rush through the back end to be able to have time for the poll and Q&A too. So this is just a real recap really around, um, a few pitfalls and leading practices. Practices, so, um, opportunities are to really focus on verifying critical controls in the field as opposed to sitting behind a desk. As Annette says, ask what's working well and do more, do more of it.
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One pitfall that is also very common from my experience is getting too focused on the data with the understanding that regardless of what the data says, you're going to get potential additional benefits and offshoot benefits of having effective conversations and the indirect benefits of having a critical control management program that's working really well. Um, as Bec said, um, let's focus on the critical few. Don't have too many, um, and really be mindful of the amount of administrative burden that you potentially could create for your organization, which may offset some of those methods.
I think so, um, Sarah, time for a quick, oh, yep, I was just going to add to that one, just making sure that you don't wait for the Rolls-Royce solution and just get started, is probably something I'd add to that last one and making sure you've got the exec and board on, on, on board, you want a better term.
Yeah, that's a really good point. And sorry, Bec, I'm sort of rushing through the back end here, but I think that's a really good point, um, um, getting started, I'm not necessarily waiting until, um, you've got that Rolls-Royce solution sounds really critical. So Sarah, I'll hand things over to you for the poll, um, and as you're doing that, I'll check some of the Q&A in chat. So the, the poll here today is, what topics would benefit your organization, ranging from A through to E? Hopefully, you can select more than one, um, and they range from verify verification schedule based on material unwanted events all the way through to some sort of critical control reporting templates that you could use in the absence of having any software.
Hey Mark, so there's a question here from Peter. Um, good outcomes, but how do you get managers to make time to, to challenge current critical controls? Is he got a magic answer for that one? Because, um, I guess in my experience, unless you take something away and replace it with the criticals, then that's a bit tricky. And I would probably just challenge, then, you know, the critical controls are there, and the word critical is because it will prevent that, um, major unwanted event or catastrophic event, however you, um, you say. And I do, I do honestly have seen the outputs of focusing on the stuff that matters rather than stuff that actually is just there to tick a box for, you know, quotations and audits and things like that, but just focus on stuff that will make a difference to to your people, is how I would approach it. But, you know, Mark, what's your thoughts?
Yeah, look, I think, um, taking stuff away, as you say, Bec's really important. What I've seen work well is actually demonstrating to teams that we can actually give you time back. So it's not necessarily adding more, potentially you can take stuff away. So if you can demonstrate and sell that you're actually making their life easier by focusing the critical few, there's an opportunity. As well as apart from taking stuff away, potentially just integrating into what they're doing already. I think there's also a good comment here from Luke, um, as we're doing the critical control checks, is actually looking for improvements when you're verifying effectiveness, not just the controls that aren't there. So I think that really aligns with Annette's feedback. He's actually focusing on the stuff that works too. Um, and I think you always have to have that balance, otherwise, um, you become the safety police when you're looking at this sort of stuff, and that doesn't drive the right behaviors, that doesn't, um, you know, directly ensure that people are home safe at the end of each day.
Um, I'm getting a little, Sarah, how's the, um, yeah, I'm having an error with the poll, whereas I can't share the results and I don't know why, but Zoom's telling me it's got an error. I will say that I can see the results and in the, the highest score is the critical control management reporting templates, followed by a simple technology to capture on-site checks, and then skills to apply effective coaching conversations. And with only 29 verification schedules based on material unwanted events. I'll keep trying to share it, but I'm just getting an error, which might have something to do with my internet, which is appalling at the moment. So, um, I don't know if we have any, um, other questions. I think you've covered the chat, Rebecca.
Yeah, yeah. The slide, Jake, I forgot to mention that at the start. The recording and the podcast, um, will be available later today, um, on that same page where that you registered for all the webinars. I'm just going to also share, um, and Annette Gray's done a couple of webinars for us, um, on finding out what works and doing more of it. So I'm going to just put that in the link, link as well in the chat. Hopefully, I can do that with the software not working very well. And, um, is there anything else you want to say, Mark?
Look, um, there are some additional resources, um, on the slide deck, assuming that the slide deck is made available at a later stage. I think time's got the better of us today, Sarah, so, um, as additional resources, we're really geared towards food safety. So hopefully everyone on the call can, can access the, the Marsh website and get those at a later stage.
Yep, okay. So there's the webinars from Annette. Um, one of the results, um, that came up in that poll was the, um, simple technology to capture on-site checks. And I don't normally do this, but I'm going to give a shameful push to for our webinar next week on critical control management. We've got, um, we've got Josh joining us, but the Marsh team are actually going to present a game, digital bowtie together with critical control management and smile inspections. And Josh Bryan, who's the General Manager of People and Risk from Mitchell, will discuss the Mitchell's implementation and the dramatic results that they've achieved. So I'm just going to put a link to that webinar also in here. And, um, also the webinar for next week for the part 5 in the critical control management series, which is evaluating effectiveness to add value. Those links in the chat. And the Marsh webinar is here. And that's, that's two webinars next week, Wednesday and Thursday. Hopefully, internet is good. All right.
So, um, I think there was some great feedback in the chat, Mark. Um, and thank you, Rebecca, for joining us today. That was great. All right. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks, Mark. Ah, thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Sarah. I'll see you back. Bye bye. Okay.