Transcription
Foreign. [Music] My guest is Ryan O'Callaghan, a former NFL player for the New England Patriots and the Kansas City Chiefs. His book, "My Life on the Line: How the NFL Damn Near Killed Me and Ended Up Saving My Life," hits at the heart of what we're talking about today: LGBTQ athletes and mental health.
Hi, how you doing?
I'm doing great. I want to talk to you about when you came out publicly in 2017. You made the decision to come out to everyone. What was going through your head as you were waiting for that article to come out?
Well, the reason I waited so long was, you know, you don't spend 30 years hating your life to being totally fine overnight. And I felt like I needed to have some ground to stand on if I were to come out publicly. And so when I made the decision to do it, I reached out to an LGBTQ sports publication and spoke with the editor and came up with a plan. He told me what to anticipate, and he wasn't wrong. As soon as the article hit, it was picked up by basically every news organization. There was this whole point of me coming out: it'll be an example for. So I'm going to try to help someone who could relate to the position I was in. And I got an outpouring of messages and support and requests to talk about, you know, my journey more.
It is actually refreshing in reading your book to hear you say things like, "I never really loved football." I very rarely hear elite athletes say something like that, even though you kind of suspect it sometimes, right? You're there for various reasons. Sometimes it's a way to get out, sometimes it's a way to hide that you're gay. Do you regret having become a football player?
I say yes, I do regret it, but I wouldn't change anything at the same time. I know that's kind of a little complicated. I only say that because the position I'm in now is great. If I go back and change these things, who knows where I would be today? You know, it took a lot of work, growth, to get where I am now, especially compared to who I was, you know, before I was openly gay. No, I wouldn't go back and change anything just because I love where I'm at now.
I mean, that's huge. I'm happy to hear that.
Yeah, it's taken a lot of work. You know, I went to a therapist for years. Even to this day, I'll talk to one. It's just healthy.
Yeah, it really is just healthy to talk to someone. Being in the closet for years in the NFL and prior to that, obviously, took a pretty significant mental health toll on you. Can you tell me about that?
It was absolutely exhausting. You know, in high school, it was a good excuse not to have a girlfriend. I'm trying to get to college. Trying to, you know, once you get to college, that excuse doesn't work so much because now you're living on your own, you're one of the best players at the college, and you've got all these girls around. And so really, it just starts to weigh heavier and heavier. And for me, it all just stacked on top of one another to become this weight that I thought I could never get off my back.
So you're carrying this weight, you're making up fake long-distance girlfriends.
You are right. I mean, very typical things, frankly.
Yeah, but it adds up. What does that do to you? Where do you end up?
I end up a drug addict, absolutely miserable, suicidal. And if it wasn't for the help from David Price, the trainer at the Chiefs at the time, I would not be here today. Yeah, I just took someone recognizing me spiraling out of control and tactfully suggesting I talk to someone. It took that to save my life, even though he didn't know what the underlying issue was. If it wasn't for that intervention from him, I would not be here.
And when you say "talk to someone," you mean a therapist, right?
Yeah. Love Dr. Wilson. Still talk to her today. First time I went in to meet Dr. Wilson, I mean, I was very resistant. I met my match with her. She was pretty much complete opposite, short from the inner city. She wouldn't let me get away with my typical BS of skating around issues and trying to get my way. And it took months of meeting with her, just building the rapport with her and the trust. I finally, for the first time in my life, said the words, "I'm gay." The first time that happened ever out loud was in her office.
Yeah, I was in her office and she stood up, came around, gave me a hug and told me I wasn't the first player to sit there and tell her that.
Wow. Which just felt amazing, you know, to not feel alone. Goes a long way. And I never thought I was the only closeted player. I can look at that time, I'd see other guys in the locker room, see kind of their habits, their patterns, and I'd be like, "Oh, they're closet. I'm gonna stay away from them so they don't figure me out."
So isolating.
Yeah. But yeah, Dr. Wilson telling her saved my life. Right now, there is only one out NFL player, Carl Nassib. Why is that?
I think only one has found what it takes within to raise their hand and go, "This is me." And in a lot of closeted people's eyes, by doing that, you feel like you're potentially sacrificing your career, friendships, family. And those things, your career, friendship, family, is what keeps people in the closet. But I think Carl coming out and doing it successfully is a great example to all the other closeted guys.
You are in touch with some of them, right?
Yeah. You know, it feels good just to be able to tell someone. Even, you know, especially they know you're not going to help them. You know, I think a lot of guys just say, "My career is only going to be X amount of time. I'll just do it when I retire." And they don't stop to think about what a huge impact they could have by coming out while they're still playing, or how much happier they could be.
It's hard. It's hard to explain to someone just how much better off you are. If you could go back right now in time and just talk to your younger self, what would you say to that younger Ryan?
First would be, take a deep breath and relax. Like, it's all gonna be okay. I can't stress enough how just consumed I was just about being gay. I think anyone who has the weight of hiding who you are to the core, you know, you're born gay or bi or trans. The weight of not having that on you, the freedom I feel now is hard to put into words. And when I talk to people, whether it's someone in business or sport, I think the same applies. If you can actually be yourself, you don't have to worry about all that other stuff.
Ryan, I really, really appreciate this conversation. Thank you so much for being so open with me, for taking the time. This means a lot.
Absolutely. I'm happy to do it. [Music]