Transcription
When you have a mantle, if it falls to you, here's something I would say. Please study the life of the ones that had it before. Wow. How it works, how it operates, how it affects you physically, mentally, and spiritually, how it affects their family, how it affects their everyday life. How does the devil fight it? No mantle, no anointing ever leaves the earth. There are mantles that need to be picked up even to this day. But what are mantles and how do they work?
I have one of the most prolific authors I've ever spoken to. How many books have you? 101 books? That's my hundredth book. 101 books and you you guys know him from God's Generals, of course. And this is Mantles Past and Present. Robert Sarhan. So good to have you with us, sir. Such a blessing. Great.
So, how do you begin this journey first of all of digging into these ancient wells and discovering the generals of the faith? Well, the generals I began when I was 12. I had an encounter. I was watching Laverne and Shirley on television. Laverne and Shirley. You have to be a certain age to understand that show. It was Happy Days. Laverne and Shirley's company and Taxi all came on. So that was my favorite show at 12. And I was watching it and Jesus walked through the front door of my house, took three steps toward me where I was sitting on the sofa and the room moved out where you could hear the TV in the distance. And he said, "I want you to see the lives of my generals know why they succeeded and why some failed. For there will come a generation who want to know what I'm going to show you." And I found the want to know generation has now showed up. But I began reading books and talking to old people. And that's how the journey began. You want to learn something, talk to old people. Now, I may tell you the story 50 times. Yes, you take that long for you to get it.
And what was the first general that you really latched on to and begin to dig into and study? Uh the first one I did Pentecostal. So Wigglesworth and Katherine and then Amy. And then I fell in love with a lot of the evangelicals but I grew up full gospel. My grandparents were of God preachers and most of our full gospel stories were not told. And when I begin to write the books and stuff, they were all messed up. The stories were not told right. They had this guy and her and all. So I had to pull them apart. And they wouldn't tell you the challenges they faced. What makes the God's Generals things unique is I tell you the good, the bad, and the different. And when you're done reading it, you still like the person because you can review a person's life, their success and failures and not dislike them. You can be sympathetic. Yeah. Well, everybody's done something stupid. Sometimes we all know about it and sometimes we don't. But they have all done it. I don't think the word "great" was necessary for that sentence. Everyone has done stuff.
And so I began doing that and reading books. You have to read books with no pictures. That's why my books have pictures in them. And I had to have a dictionary in those days because words would be this big and I didn't know what they were. So we didn't have AI in our little phones. We had to go use an old-fashioned dictionary. And then I remember realizing one day, well grandson's alive. I wonder where he's at. I want to talk to him. And so I was at the right age where some of the first generation people were old but they were alive that was at Azusa Street. Some of the kids that were led at Azusa was alive. I got to talk to them. I got to talk to Wigglesworth's family, Katherine Kuhlman. I mean, I begin to like, oh, they're alive and people that worked for them. And so, nobody cared back then. I would go to the homes of these people, these old ladies because the guys die first. And uh you go to their home and and they Why are you here? I said, you worked with Amy. What was that like? What happened? And you begin to pull and they just start talking and telling stories. And the little old groups got said, "There's this kid. He likes this stuff. So talk to him." So they begin to kind of network me in this thing and that's how it began. I've read 14,000 books so far. They call me the librarian. So not every book was big. Some are little pamphlets so I have to be honest. But reading and talking to old people is how it started.
So what was the first major book you wrote about? Was it God's Generals or was there one before that? Well, God's Generals was my fifth book. The blue book. The first generals book that you're referring to is the blue book. I wrote that when I was 23 years old. And did you really? Yeah. So I was about not much older than you when I wrote it. Yes. So all these guys. Well, same age as you, but I'm writing the book and you're reading my book. But but that's when I wrote it. I wrote my first book at 17 and then I wrote several books after that. And then when I wrote the generals book, I changed from a testimonial author. My first book was about my encounter of going to heaven. So that had a back then people don't talk like that. Today everybody goes to heaven every other day. So it's a different. So so that came out and it it we sold a million copies the first year. Wow. So we went from this little little guy and plume overnight it was a different lifestyle.
And then when I wrote Who published that? Uh Harrison House did. Did they really? They. Well, at first I published the first 20,000 myself because they wouldn't give me the deal I wanted. So then they wanted me so I got the deal I wanted. You sold 20,000. You have to learn how to work work work. And you've been Harrison House pretty much ever since. They've been my best publishers. Whitaker House and Harrison House have been my best publishers and wow, publishing life. And so I began to write and I wrote that when I wrote the generals book, that's when they realized I had a brain and I had other just telling a story and they began to realize that I was more than just a storyteller. And uh they begin. I gave my first lecture at 15 at a seminary on the generals cuz I I went to talk to the dean. He wrote a book about Wesley and I read a book that said he was wrong and I thought I need to talk to this guy. So I get dropped off by my mother at the college and have an appointment. So I walk in and say, "Did you write this book?" "Yes." I said, "This guy says you're wrong. So I'm here to figure out who's right." He goes, "Who are you?" And he interviewed me for an hour and a half and booked me that moment. Said, "You know more about these guys than all my professors." Huh? And so, but it's not because I'm special. It's because I was diligent. You know, people think I have a a memory that God. I developed my memory. The things were skill you have to add to your gifting. And so that's how it all began. I mean, I can talk forever on that.
A hundred books later, we're here at Mantles Past and Present. So, first, what is a mantle? Well, a mantle, well, first I was this story. When you're a Pentecostal and somebody great in the church dies or a famous preacher dies in the nation, you cry for 10 minutes and you secretly ask who gets the mantle. So, I grew up with that statement. And so, I've always kind of followed that awareness of that. And then today, we we mix three words together. uh anointings, impartation, and mantles we mix to almost mean the same thing when they're all three different things. Okay. So they're they're Really? Yeah. They're they're to me they're Anointings, impartations, and mantles. Yeah. I can see anointings being separate, but impartation and mantles are two different things. Yeah. Well, to me, one's on you and one's in even though there's that spiritual language. Yes. And so there's a they speak of it differently in certain parts of the scripture and our spiritual fathers speak of it differently. So I thought, you know, and then today the prophetic world talks about mantles like anointings because they all want a mantle and a mantle is different than an anointed impartation and those are rarer than the other two. There are more anointings in the earth than mantels. A mantle is made up of all type of gifting, callings, anointings, DNA, all that stuff goes into a mantle. Like we're both wearing cloth. Yeah. And so you have different threads. There's a thread of anointing, thread of the calling, thread of the authority, all that. All that comes together to form a cloth that sits on you, a mantle. It's the way I would describe it. And that's a lifetime. It's a it's a lifetime call. And it is something that affects everybody, but not everybody gets to carry one, right? And uh since I'm the generals guy, they always say, "Somebody prophesied to me that I've got Wigglesworth or John G. Lake." I go, "No, you one day they'll have they'll be the person." But they talk about these guys because they sometimes see a similar a similar type of anointing. Yes. And they'll use that name to describe that part. Right. And because we use these words, we think it's more than what it is. And there's not three or four mantles. There's one. There's one. It may divide in certain ways. Like here's a famous mantle. Uh George Jeffries from England uh built the great Elim denomination but was the great healer of that during the time of Wigglesworth. Actually, he was more famous than Smith. The reason why we know Smith, yeah, Smith went around the world where George stayed in England. And so, when he was an older man, a young guy named Bonnke finished Bible school and he wanted to go see London before he went back to Germany. And he didn't have enough money to do what he wanted to see. He just got one of those on the bus, off the bus tickets. And he was going around London. He got off because he was tired of sitting on the bus and goes down this road and sees on the mailbox the name Jeffries. He heard about Jeffries, but he didn't think he was alive, but he knew he was a famous kid evangelist. So, he goes to check. He goes and knocks on the door. Oh my goodness. And the lady opens the door and says, "This is the home." And it is. And and and he asked, "Can I see him?" And she goes, "No." And and the his booming voice, he was coming down the stairs and said, "Let him in." And Bonnke as a young man comes in and talks too much as a young man would in front of a great man and he says get on your knees and he blesses him and passes a portion of his mantle on the miracle side of it. Wow. He says, "I've got I've been I went to Bible school. I got blessed by George Jeffries. I'm ready to go to Africa." That kind of thing. He goes home and his dad picks him up in Germany. He died six hours later. The mantle almost was not transferred to the next generation. It's almost like Elisha into the grave. Yes. So that mantle divided into two that happens sometimes. The healing side when you see Bonnke's healing crusades you see Jeffries' miracle ministry doubling the the apostolic church producing side fell on the church called Kingdom Temple. That's the last church you pastored. That church grew to over 25,000 people and was producing more preachers and ministries than the denomination at one time. So the actual gift of apostolship fell on the denomination fell on that church. And that's a type of a mantle fall. Does that make sense? Yes. Absolutely.
So now differentiate that from impartation. Well, impartation only is something that comes in you and upon you impart a gift to you. But a mantle is all of that together. It is the anointing, the impartation, the call, the authority, the strategy. All of that stuff that we carry individually is in that thing. And it's usually something God wants to keep alive in the earth, in the earth generationally. Now, there's a great healing mantle we talk about in the book that started with Maria Woodworth-Etter and it fell on Amy McPherson, fell on Katherine Kuhlman, then then on Benny Hinn in that order. In that order and you can track it and you can watch. It's a I call it the great American healing mantle. And you you can see similarities in all of them. Yes. They all had great notable miracles, got national attention. Uh they were phenomenal miracle ministries, but then they all had this they all had divorces in their family and they all died with some kind of heart ailment that was either the reason of their death or a complication for their death. So when you have a mantle, if it falls to you, here's something that I would say. Please study the life of the ones that had it before. Wow. How it works, how it operates, how it affects you physically, mentally and spiritually, how it affects their family, how it affects the their everyday life. And um how does the devil fight it? Because I believe that he is the Luther assigns a a demonic power against a mantle carrier and he fights that mantle in every generation. Like Benny Hinn got the the healing one that you know we call the Captain Kumba but it's the healing mantle. So we're friends. So he got the mantle. I wanted it but I didn't get it. I got the white dress. I collect church history stuff. So I said I'll trade you. You can have the dress if I get the mantle but it doesn't work that way. But so I was a friend. So I said if I can't have the mantle, let me be the friend of the guy that does. So I got that friendship with Benny. So I used to tell Benny, Benny, you got it. I don't know why you got it but you got it. I said but be aware it's great. It's going to get national attention toward the end of your ministry. The press will turn against you and the devil fights the mantle carrier in his marriage or her marriage and then physically there's a common thread of their latter days with illness with a heart condition. So please be aware of these two things and and deal with it. So we have to be able to understand those things. Now some people don't know how to follow. Paul said follow me as I follow the Lord. So there's a following of a person without an idolization that goes with that mantle carrier. Another thing that happens with a mantle carrier, they never say they have it. Everybody else recognizes it. Ah, I've been with Benny for years and I've pushed him. Come on. Come on. Tell me. And he won't. Now I think that's a character. It's not a hard fast rule, but when Elijah went to heaven and fell on Elisha, Elisha never said, "I have it per se." The sons of the prophet said it. Acknowledged it. He operated. So I think that's the best way for these things to happen that you just operate. You know, you know what the facts. Maybe the people around you know, but it's not something you go out, I've got this. As soon as you start saying, I think cuz the guys that ladies that carry it just do it and we who behold it, we say it and that's the way it's recognized.
Well, where is that mantle today? That healing mantle is Benny has that one. He's still carrying it. They don't transfer until you're dead. Wow. So all these guys who think I'm going to give you. No, no, no, no. The mantle is directed by God. Anointings and impartations, you have a little more play into it. So there's get the anointing, be blessed with impartation. And if that manner of thing is possible in God's plan, great. But if not, at least know about them, be able to recognize those who got them and go get blessed by it. But um we have to be at peace with how God gives us. We often hear that the no mantle leaves the earth and so when someone dies then that mantle should be passed on. But are new mantles being woven created by God in in? Well, let me give you my thought. I'm going to call up my thoughts. Everybody judge it. Yeah. I think there are mantles that are dormant. Yeah. And they've been dormant for a long time. I see. And God's going to resurrect them. What I think in this season that's going to happen and there are new ones to to face today's thing that God is also going to give in the earth. I think we're going to have both past and present.
Well, gosh, I mean, I don't think you I don't want to pursue a mantle. I mean, I've always felt that way. Whenever you look at the generals of the faith, do you really want to pursue that mantle? I think if you just tell him if I can have one, I'm open. Yeah. And let him decide. I mean, there's people I like. I like Katherine. I I mean, Katherine is my favorite. I could be Katherine was your favorite. My favorite. I met her. Why? Why is Katherine? Well, I met her as a little boy. I was in her services three times. If you ever in her service, you are changed. When you talk to people who were in her services, they all have a memory. It's impactful. And it went for I mean, I saw with my own little blue eyes for our service. No joy. I was a kid. We didn't go to the bathroom. We didn't leave. We stayed and got mad when she quit. That's the one thing right there. I saw the bottom of the floor had probably 4 to 500 wheelchairs in it. So about 10 normal rows of seats and then the wheelchairs. And we were sitting where you could see it. And God gave her three gifts real strong that float there. Word of knowledge real strong working in miracles and gifts of healing and light. How did she get two power gifts? I'll be happy with one. Yeah. That would flow all she had it. That's how God gave it to her. When those gifts hit the wheelchair section, minor cripples and major cripples started getting healed. About 50 to 60 and I'm not exaggerating came out of wheelchairs and nobody touched them. Like awake at one time. At one time you saw them pop up move and they all you heard the clanking of the wheelchairs. Some walk off, meanly walking normal, others kind of waddled for about two or three and then became normal. No one touched them. No one prayed for them. It just happened. And when you're in something like that, now that's just wheelchairs. That's miracles all over the building. I've never seen anybody and I know all of them that had what this divorced red-headed woman that talked funny flamboyant. Yeah. And um, you know, it's it it in a Kuhlman meeting, it's not just what you see, there's something greater. It's what you feel. And what I felt as a little boy is what I missed the most. The weight of the presence of God where you could feel the weight. Change. And you could I remember looking at this hand and my skin was just moving just where you could see it and feel it not in any kind of weird but you could it was quivery under the presence and you could hear the low roar, the the sound of his presence. Three or four hour her meetings did not go up and down like ours do. They'll do that three or four times. It kept crescendoing for for hours. And see, the anointing has a radius. The glory fills the room. It's a whole different dynamic. So, at her meeting, the front row and the balcony back row have the same thing. There was not a bad seat for the anointing. The anointing has a radius. Like, you'll see Brother Hagin meet sometimes. I can feel it on me. So, I know if I can walk down the aisle, whoever can get in that radius, within the shadow, something they can bless with something. So, I will maneuver myself like that. But when the glory is in the room, you just stand there and it feels that's what she had all the time. And when you see Katherine, it's a second chance. People don't know, we call her the miracle story. And she's a miracle lady, but she lost everything. Everything. Her marriage, her reputation, and didn't know if she'd ever get anything back. And on a little dead end street in California, she prayed a simple prayer on the worst day of her life. I have nothing. I have nothing at all. But I love you with all my heart. If you can use me, please use me. And that's the day God gave her the ministry that we talk about her second chance. And how old was she? She was probably in her late 30s. Wow. And um folks, if you make a mistake, God has a second chance for you. I don't care what it is, how many people know it or whatever it is, God will give you a second chance and he makes it better than the first one around. He restores. Yeah. And if you lose a few people, you say 10,000 people know you and you lose a thousand of them that don't like you anymore because of whatever, remember there's 7 billion people in the world. Shut up and go meet the rest of them. Have a good time. All right. So, so mantles, that's not something we can just willy-nilly grab a hold of. But you said there's a little more to the anointing. So, anointing is an impartation. I wish it was simpler. I think my book would sell better if I can make it. Everybody gets one, but I don't think that it would sell better. But I wanted to be honest, and again, this is just what I know now. There's probably other things that we're going to learn that other people know. So, to me, this is a a a brick in the wall of mantle understanding. So, it's not a complete thing. So you may write a book on Mantles One and help add to it. Oh my goodness. I don't know about that. Mantles Past and Present. I'm going to put a link in the description. We all need to dig into this and understand how to I think we're losing honor. We don't have time to talk about this now, but I'd love to have you back. We're losing honor in this generation, how we honor those who came before us and and we honor you and we thank God for you and what you've done for us. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. God bless you. My pleasure.
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