Transcription
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much, thank you for this warm welcome. For those who don't know me, my name is Mario, Mario Guerra. And I dedicate myself to psychology, to psychology and human development. And during my work over the years as a psychotherapist, author, and communicator on topics of mental health and precisely human development, I have seen that one of the most important topics for our lives is the topic of attachment. But attachment needs public relations. And that's what I'm here for, in defense of attachment. Because I have heard people tell me in different workshops, in conferences, Mario, how do I detach myself? How do I get rid of these attachments that torment me? And I tell them, we can't. Because what is attachment? Attachment tells us that it is a deep emotional bond that initially occurs between a child and their primary caregivers. Normally, their father and mother. It is an innate need we have to seek love and protection in those people who are supposed to care for us, who are supposed to love us deeply more than anything else in life. So, we tend to seek this closeness, this proximity to receive precisely that, love and care. But then, this bad public relationship that attachment suddenly has, when we say we have to get rid of it, I say, how do we get rid of that basic need? We don't survive if we are not cared for, if we are not loved by other people who will help us navigate life while we learn to be independent and self-sufficient. So, the issue with attachment is not whether you have it or not, we have it. The question is, what is my way of attaching? What is my attachment style? And that is what attachment theory tells us about. Attachment theory tells us, there are four ways people learn to attach to their loved ones, depending a lot on how they were educated, how they were raised during childhood. What is attachment style? It is the way a child responds to how they are loved and cared for by their parents. If the parents provided consistent support, if they gave unconditional love, if they were attentive to the child's needs. That child will learn that love doesn't hurt, that they can trust those people who are caring for them, but above all, that they can trust that they are a person worthy of being loved. The problem comes when the way of raising us gave us responses that are like strategies for survival in an environment that is less than kind. And this can come in several ways, because attachment can be secure attachment, anxious attachment, avoidant attachment, or disorganized attachment. If I had to give a very concrete example that we could all relate to, let's imagine the first day of school for a child, the first time they go to school. If we stand outside a kindergarten, a school, to observe the reactions, we will see that there are children who arrive very happy with their backpack in hand, hand in hand with mom, hand in hand with dad. They are talking, they are excited because it is their first day of school, they reach the door, they look with curiosity, and suddenly the teacher is there to greet them, and the mother tells the child, "Yes, go with the teacher, you will be fine here." The child trusts because they say, "My mom has never betrayed me, if she is telling me I will be fine, I will surely be fine." They enter perfectly, they say goodbye to mom, and mom tells them, "I'll be back to pick you up at dismissal." And that child knows she will come back for them, they have no doubt. That's why they will spend that school day learning, playing, making friends, because they won't be constantly wondering, "Will they come back or won't they come back for me?" When mom returns for them, dad returns for them, they greet them with a hug, an excited hug that says, "You're here, I love you." And we go home, and the next day we return. Same scenario, anxious attachment. We see a child who clings to their father's or mother's leg, saying, "No, don't leave me, I don't want to be here, I'm very scared." "But you have to go to school." "But I don't want to go, don't leave me, you'll come with me, no, I won't, I want you to stay with me." And at that moment, that child who clings to the school door with all their might to avoid entering, their father or mother almost says, "But of course, you're going inside." The teacher pulls them inside, and the child says, "This is a very tormenting thing, because they are abandoning me in this place." And that child will cry, that girl will cry inside, they will be distressed, my mom will come back, they will cling to the teacher, they won't want to play with the other children, and when it's time for dismissal and their mom arrives, because she will arrive, well, they will hug her as if it were a miracle that she arrived and say, "Now, I will never let you go again." And the next day, the same thing, and the same thing, and the same thing. That anxious child will become an adult who will develop a great need for reaffirmation from others. They are the adult who says, "I sent you a message, why didn't you reply?" "But I was working." "No, don't you see how anxious I get about this? I thought something had happened to you, I thought they had killed you, I thought you had been kidnapped, I thought you didn't love me anymore, I thought you were with someone else." They will be the jealous adult, the manipulative adult, the adult who is always suspecting something more is going on, who is certain they will be abandoned, because they are not worthy of being loved. Why? Because they were given an inconsistent belief, their needs were not well attended to, and suddenly that made them unable to trust. What is prioritized with anxious attachment is distrust. We return to the same scenario, now a child arriving on the first day of school, entering the school, not even looking back at their mother, not saying goodbye, entering as if nothing happened. The mother says, "Well, they entered very confidently, one sees them as a very secure child." They enter, they don't interact, they prefer not to play, they prefer not to interact with the teacher, they go to a corner alone. That little child might seem like an intellectual who is reading something very intently, but always alone, because they have lost hope. Why? Because at home, that little child's needs were not heard, were not met. They are the child who was told, "Don't bother me, look, there's the tablet, go play." "What do you want now? Again?" "I need to go to the bathroom." "Then go to the bathroom, don't bother me, don't you see I'm busy?" They are the child who was told, "No, no, no crying, okay? You want to cry? I'll give you reasons to cry, so you cry your heart out." "Don't you see I'm very busy? What are you missing? Look, what are you missing? You have a house, you have food, you have toys, you have friends, what are you missing?" Well, that child cannot say something very important, "I miss you." "You are the one I miss, you are the one who isn't there for me, you are the one who doesn't even look me in the eye, because you are always looking at your phone. And so it seems that what is there is more important than me." And so that child learns not to bond, they have lost hope, because for that child their world is cold and gray. Where do I turn? Who? No one will pay attention to me, no one will listen to me. And it is less painful for me to reject than to approach and ask for something and be rejected by another, by someone who cannot even give me your gaze and your attention. And finally, perhaps the worst of all, we return to the scene of the child entering school. That child who says to their father or mother, "Don't leave me, please, because I'm dying of anguish, don't abandon me at this school." And the father says, "But you have to go to school, I'm sorry, but you have to go." And suddenly the child says, "You know what? Then I never want to see you again, never in my life do I want to see you again. If you leave me, I will hate you for the rest of my life." That child who was begging for love, suddenly rejects them and says, "Get out, I never want to see you again." Because it is a child who suffered mistreatment, who suffered abuse. It is a disorganized attachment, it is a very confusing attachment, because it is precisely like that. They will become the adult you cannot predict, an adult who, when they go to work, suddenly has aggressive, violent, explosive reactions. The one who says, "Why did they get angry if we didn't say anything?" Because they are already used to responding that way. When they feel there is danger, there is threat, they react immediately with fear, and that fear leads to aggression. So, in secure attachment, what is fostered is precisely trust. In anxious attachment, it is anguish. In avoidant attachment, it is hopelessness. And in disorganized attachment, it is fear. The fear that if I ask for something, I will be punished. If I say I need something, I will be judged. And it is a child who lives with great fear, but also with a great need to be loved, like all of us. That's why attachment needs public relations. It's not about not having it, it's about how we are going to have it, how we are going to develop it. And one, well, sometimes one should say, "Ouch, dad, mom, you should have left me some property in the Caribbean," right? Not this attachment style that suddenly costs me so much work and that will mark my relationships, not only romantic relationships, it will mark my work relationships, it will mark my relationships with friends, and it will mark the relationship with myself. Because attachment is about how I learned to expect love from others, what I believe my place is among others, and how I think love and care are. Do they hurt or not hurt? Do I trust or not trust? That's what it's about. That's why it's so fundamental in our lives. All of us develop attachment. The question is, what is my style? How am I doing it? And the big question that we have already answered, can it be changed or is this already a condemnation? That is the question everyone is surely asking, because from here everything is visible. And I can see in some of you, as I was telling this, some tears, some sighs, nodding, because many of you identified with things you have surely seen with children at the entrance of a school, but you identified with something I have spoken about here, because this is the human experience, it is human nature, this is attachment, living attachment, beyond theory, in each one of us. Hello, I am Fernanda Lozano. The truth is, I feel honored to be here with you. I have known you for many years. And I have a question with a face of three. What generates attachment, mom or dad? And from what age does it start to be reflected? Thank you very much, Fernanda, thank you for your question. Attachment is formed from the moment we are born. Attachment is formed from our primary caregivers, who are normally dad and mom. And I say normally because, unfortunately, sometimes it happens that one is not so present or neither is so present. Sometimes it happens that a mother dies at the birth of a child, for some reason, and it's not that that child won't develop attachment, they will develop it, but they will develop it with other important people in their life. In fact, it is true that parents are the main founders of attachment in us, but also all those people with whom we will interact intensively. It can be grandparents, for example, if we are cared for by grandparents. It can sometimes be older siblings. It can be aunts and uncles, all the people around us. But of course, it is presumed that we will primarily be connected with the figure of our parents. But very fundamentally, with what we know as the primary dyad, which is the mother-son or mother-daughter relationship, because it is the first, it is the most basic, the most elemental. From the maternal womb, we are already, in a way, experiencing our mother's emotions, and upon birth, she will very likely be the first person to receive us in her arms. And from her, we will receive the first sources of this way of attaching. That sometimes there are people, there are mothers, who are presumed that by being a mother, she should love her children unconditionally. But there are mothers who cannot do it for some reason. What happens when that happens? If that mother who rejects is a cold, distant, inexpressive mother, that child will develop an avoidant attachment style. They will say, "I have no hope, this lady, mom, doesn't respond to me, no matter what I do, she doesn't look at me, she doesn't care for me, she doesn't pamper me, I won't even ask for that because I already know I won't get it." That's why I spoke of hopelessness. It's terrible to suddenly hear angry mothers telling their children, as if it were an offense, "You are just like your father." And one doesn't know how to receive it. Thanks or damn it? How do I respond to that? Or to be told, "You are just like your mother, you are crazy like your mother." Well, at that moment I realize that those messages will condition the development of the worst attachment style anyone can have, which is disorganized attachment. That's why I said, "that child will react first by seeking love, but as soon as they feel that it is not given and no one will be able to give it, because as they imagine it, it doesn't exist, then they will react with violence, with rejection. They are the ones who will reject before being rejected. The one who will blow up a relationship that could have been good because they are certain they will be hurt, they live with eternal fear. Imagine walking in a house like that, with a rejecting mother, walking in the house and not knowing if the next step I take will cause an explosion. It's like walking through a minefield. I don't know if you will like it or not. One has to be able to predict the people they live with in some way. And one understands that maybe you woke up grumpy one day and maybe you don't talk to me for some reason and you say, "Well, well, I understand you've been stressed," but not the next minute. That is, how will you respond? I'm playing. And suddenly you tell me, "Oh, how nice that you're playing." And suddenly I keep playing and you tell me, "Be quiet, you're not letting me concentrate." Then I say, "Well, then, what's wrong? It's me who's wrong." Suddenly they tell me to draw, and then they complain about how many sheets of paper I use and if we don't have money to pay for so many sheets of paper that I should be more conscious of household expenses. Suddenly they tell me I have to eat and finish what's on my plate, and when I say I want more because it's all very delicious, they tell me this isn't a buffet, that I should be content with what I'm given, that I shouldn't be greedy, and that my siblings also have to eat. So now I don't know how they will respond. Will they take care of me or not? Will they smile or not smile? And that makes us develop a very strange defense mechanism, to be as unpredictable as the adults who raised us. It can change later. Clearly, there are things we can do. We are not condemned, but we can all aspire to have a better attachment style, to relate in a different way. I have always said that loving is as important as knowing how to love. And knowing how to love is knowing how to transmit the love one feels in such a way that the other can understand that this is love, but also the way of receiving love. Because many times, especially, for example, when we have anxious attachment, we already have distrust in advance. And living in constant fear, in constant danger, worse than if ghosts truly existed, that is living in that anguish that no child, no child, nor any adult should ever live. We should never live in fear. Love does not frighten. Love receives. Hello, my name is Luis Mendiola. I am fortunate to be here. And my question is, why does toxic attachment exist? Thank you, Luis. Thank you for your question. And thank you for being here too. Look, attachment is not toxic. What is toxic is the way some children are treated. What is toxic? That which sickens, that which intoxicates, that which is not inherent to the organism that has it, but which, upon consuming it, upon acquiring it, becomes sick. And it is that. And it is a fortune of how unfortunate it is, because it is not part of us. Our nature is inherently loving. Our nature is naturally benevolent. When something intoxicates us, we either get rashes, or we want to vomit, or we get sick, well, but we are not the sick ones. We are sick because of something that was given to us that was not healthy and wholesome. A young child cannot choose how their parents will be. And here is a very important thing we need to understand. Our parents and other significant figures in our lives cannot teach us what the world is like. They transmit to us how they see the world. They transmit their vision of the world. But a young child cannot make this distinction yet. And young children say, "My parents teach me that love is like this, that love hurts. So, this must be love." But they don't think about it. I would love it if a young child could say, "Okay, that's what you say, Mom. That's what you say, Dad. That's how you see things. But I don't agree." And they cannot say it because, how can you not agree? If I am your father, if I am your mother. The famous "because I say so." And then, in that "because I say so," well, then everything ends. If that is the law, then the law must be obeyed. Because here it seems that my parents sometimes constitute themselves as judges, juries, prosecutors, and executioners. And I look around and say, "And my defense attorney? Don't I have anyone to defend me here?" Well, no, because a young child does not yet have that capacity. But fortunately, from these bonds that we could call toxic, from these toxic dynamics that exist, we can emerge. When we become adults, we start to grow and we start to question things. Or even when another person, that's why a concept here is so important, which is emotional co-regulation. It is the ability to regulate our emotions through experiences with other people who are capable of welcoming us. Sometimes in a young child, a school teacher, a classmate, a friend's mom, can offer a word of comfort, a word of acceptance, a word of love that they have never received from their own father, their own mother. And suddenly that discovery, that epiphany, makes you discover. "They told me I was smart, they told me I was handsome, they told me I was intelligent. And it doesn't match what they told me, that I am a fool, that I am impossible, that I don't know what two plus two is, or if 'árbol' has an accent, that what is in my head." Suddenly someone tells me, "Very good, you're doing very well." And that discovery, if it comes at the opportune moment, at the right moment, is the antidote to that toxicity, because it is the type of messages that we will store and will later contrast over time to be able to say, "Okay, my parents said this, I'll keep what did me good and what didn't, I'll let it go, because I'll keep those other messages from friends, teachers, mentors, other children's mothers." When they told me that time that it wasn't my fault, that I was just a child and that I was not responsible for my parents' emotions, when they tell me at the precise moment, a world of possibilities opens up for me, the world becomes different, and I begin to see that those who give me these instructions, these internal scripts, are people who also write those scripts based on their own scripts. Parents are like a reflection of the inner self. If you were to go to the bathroom right now and look in the mirror, because, I don't know, if you want to comb your hair or if you got something in your eye, you go to the mirror and look in the mirror, and it's fine, but you would have to understand something. That reflection is not you, that is the reflection the mirror returns to you. But if you go to the bathroom and that mirror is broken, and then you go into the bathroom and the mirror is there, but broken, completely broken, in a thousand pieces, but still on the wall, you're not going to get to the bathroom and say, "Ah, I broke myself!" No, you know that the mirror is the one that is broken, and if it is returning a distorted reflection, it is because the problem is with the mirror. You are not broken. Well, that happens sometimes in these relationships that sicken. They are broken mirrors that return a reflection, not of who we are, but of how they see us, of how they see us because they also come from their own broken childhoods. So we have to recognize, no, that broken mirror is not me, that is a reflection that the mirror returns to me, and that reflection can be very faithful to who I am, or it can be as distorted as in those funhouse mirrors, where I see myself bigger, smaller, fatter, thinner, but ultimately that is not me, and sometimes we laugh at those reflections, but a child doesn't laugh when they are returned a reflection and what they see is a monster, the one they were told they were for spilling milk, for not learning the lesson, and they were told they had to learn it, but there is always hope. Hello, how are you, Mario? I am Evelyn Salazar. It is said that throughout our lives we choose people who remind us of our parents, of our caregivers. Do you think that is true? And if so, do you consider it healthy? And from your perspective and experience, do you think we can break these patterns? Thank you, Evelyn, thank you for asking. Yes, it is correct, those patterns are repeated. And look, I will answer the question a bit from back to front. Is it healthy for this to happen to us? If our parents' attachment style, the one they transmitted to us, is healthy, of course it is. If my parents were consistent, loving, attentive, bonded to me, of course I want to repeat those patterns. In fact, I will repeat them. But let's think about the unfortunate examples, which are the ones that frequently come to mind. And I really like to use the example of the cactus mom, and it goes like this. Imagine a young child who is in a room where there is nothing and no one else, and suddenly on a table there is a cactus. And you know what cacti are like, right? They have one arm longer than the other and they are full of thorns. Well, that child is told, "Look, that's your mom." The child thinks, "Really?" but sees no one else, there is no one else. And there is a need in that child. What is the need? To attach, to bond. They won't say, "No, don't bring me a mom, I really don't want her." No, yes. When they see that no one else is coming, that child will say, "Well, if this is my mom, then I'll approach her." But there is a danger, you already suspect it. First, that cactus will not move to approach that child. That child has to approach the cactus because the cactus does not respond, the cactus does not move, it does not move its arms to hug. Thank God for the thorns. But the point is that that child will not give up that idea, that need to bond. And so they will approach the cactus, but the first approach will hurt them, and they will move away a little. But that will not make them give up the need for acceptance, love, and affection. So, that child will learn one thing. How to approach the cactus and be close to it in a way that hurts me as little as possible. But also, the thorns that do get stuck and cause pain, I will pretend that the pain doesn't matter that much. And then that child will learn to hug the cactus, they will learn to sleep with the cactus, but they will be feeling pain permanently. Later they will grow up and be told, "You've grown up, go into the world, go out into the world to relate." What do you think they will look for? Cactus people. Why? It's absurd. If the cactus kept hurting them, yes, because that's how I learned love is. Remember, attachment style is formed in response to what the other gives me. And I have already learned, I have a master's degree in enduring pain, in enduring coldness, and even in bonding with somewhat prickly people. And then I go out into the world and I will meet all kinds of people. I will meet loving, affectionate, and warm people who will open their arms to me and say, "Come." And I will say, "No." And you, "Why not?" "Why not? If I want to give you love." "No, you don't give love. Here, touch me." "No, it doesn't hurt. This isn't love." "Who knows what it is? You want to trick me, this isn't love." So I will have to look for cactus people, people who hurt, not because I like to suffer, but because in my relationship script, in my mental map, in my attachment style, love comes conditioned by pain, comes conditioned by lack of response, and comes conditioned by coldness. And I will not have other types of relationships until I learn that that is not love. And that is the first step. Love doesn't have to hurt. As I say, love doesn't have to scare. But until I learn that, I will keep looking for cactus people in my life. So, yes, I think it is fortunate when we have a secure attachment style, when we can trust. And look, with a secure attachment style, don't imagine that a secure attachment person is saying, "Well, if you want to leave, go ahead, I have no problem, I won't miss you." No, a secure attachment person suffers when someone dies, suffers in an emotional breakup. They ask many questions, just like all of us, but there is a difference. With secure attachment, you know that this, this loss, this breakup, is not going to be the end of you. You know that you can, first, rely on other people, you can rely on family, you can rely on friends, you can rely on yourself too, because you know you will get through whatever comes your way. One of my favorite authors, Carlos Castaneda, said in one of his books, "The basic difference between a warrior and an ordinary person is that the ordinary person sees everything that happens to them as a blessing or a curse, and the warrior sees everything that happens to them as a challenge." The secure attachment person sees life's setbacks as challenges, which are there to be overcome, not to learn to live with them. They see cacti as a temporary source of life when there is nothing else, but as soon as they reach society and community, they thank the cactus for what it gave them, they thank their survival mechanism for what it could have given them, that's why they learned to drink from the cactus, but they don't go out looking for cactus people, because this challenge has been overcome. My childhood has been overcome. Childhood is not a curse when as adults we can rewrite the scripts of our lives and rewrite the scripts of our history. And remember something, our brain has evolved, not so much to make us happy, but to survive. When it has the means of security and trust, then our brain, our mind, can think, "Well, now, what am I going to learn? Now, who is going to be my friend?" But when you have lived in a survival environment, you no longer worry about happiness. So our brain is in survival mode and will prefer the known path, will prefer the cactus, because that one didn't let me die. I already know it hurts, but it's the known. So I will tend to repeat these patterns only because they are the known paths that once worked for me. Let's see, this example might help, and now I'll get specifically to what can be done in this case. Let's imagine you are on an adventure through the jungle, through the countryside, through the forest, it's the same, a wooded area, with rivers, with mountains. You arrive at the bank of a river, you have to cross it. It's a very strong, very deep river, you can't cross it there because the current will carry you away. But suddenly, in the distance, you see a raft and you say, "There's the raft, it belongs to no one." Moreover, there is a sign that says, "Whoever wants to use it to get to the other side." Perfect, what helps me at that moment to cross is a raft. I reach the other side of the river, and now comes the mountain. And I say, "Damn, this raft was very useful, I'm going to carry it to climb the mountain." But you can already guess that carrying a heavy wooden raft while climbing a mountain is not the best idea. But you don't let go of it, because that raft saved your life at one point. But it's no longer helping you climb the mountain, you can't keep ascending. You have to let go of that raft, you can thank it for what it gave you, but you have to leave it on the riverbank, because now what you need are other tools to climb the mountain. Our attachment styles sometimes get dragged along through the most diverse and unfortunate scenarios, when they no longer work for us. Yes, it's true that it worked for me to pretend nothing hurt me to avoid being hurt further, but it no longer works, I can no longer carry that behavior into the future. Even if my mind tells me, "That's what you have to do." If someone makes you angry, don't talk to them, the silent treatment, that's how things are solved. It's like when they ask you if you're angry, "Hey, what's wrong?" And what do you usually answer? "Nothing." Exactly. And I say, why do we answer nothing? Instead of saying, "You know what? Yes, I'm angry because you promised to call me and you didn't. Yes, I'm upset because you didn't keep your word on what you told me you would do." But we say nothing. Because one says, "What's the point of telling them if nothing will change?" So, that impulse to respond with nothing, we should recognize it and then say, "Look, here I go again saying nothing. Here I go again stomping my feet when I'm angry without speaking. Here I go again slamming the door. Here I go again leaving them on read on the phone so they learn that these things aren't done to me." And I'll keep them in the freezer until they learn their lesson. Why not say, "Look, it's the strangest thing." A patient told me the other day, I insisted for a long time, "Why don't you talk to your mom? Why don't you talk to your mom? Why don't you talk to your mom?" And her answer was, "No, no, no. You can't talk to my mom. My mom doesn't listen. My mom is like this. My mom is like that." And she let me talk. One day, I think out of desperation, she writes to me and says, "Mario, guess what I did?" "What?" "I talked to my mom." And I say, "And what happened?" "It's magic, because things started to resolve between us. First she listened to me, and I also realized that I wasn't listening to her either." So, doing something as counterintuitive as instead of saying "nothing" when you do have something, because you know you have something. It's saying, yes, I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm sad, I feel frustrated. And that is the first step to recognizing and changing these patterns. Otherwise, we will be condemned to repetition because we will give in to these old paths that are the known paths. Now, it's not that we are foolish either. We are activating defense mechanisms that were very useful in the past, but the issue is that we continue to carry rafts when we are climbing mountains and we carry ice axes and harnesses when we are crossing a river. Each tool serves a purpose, each tool provides us with something, but we have to know how to use it, we have to know how to apply it in the appropriate context. So, if we always have a hammer in hand, it can be very useful, right? When you see a loose nail, there it is, but then you have a hammer in hand and you see a baby, then you have a hammer in hand and you see a very tasty dessert, then you have a hammer in hand and you are next to the person you like so much, but you don't let go of the hammer and say, "Here, I'll give you a caress." Well, no. I'm going to eat my dessert, right? Well, no. I'm going to break an egg. Well, no. And it doesn't mean hammers aren't useful. It's where and how I'm using it. Those are attachment styles. How am I going to use this? That I know is natural in humans, this way of bonding. But you will tell me, "Hey, Mario, but if I approach someone and they give me the cold shoulder, if I approach someone and they betray me, the secure attachment person, what do you think they also know how to do?" Set boundaries. If I approach you and you betray me, if I approach you and you lie to me, if I approach you and you hurt me, I will tell you, "Hey, not like that, not like that because that hurts me." "Oh, how can it hurt you if you come from a cactus mom?" "Yes, I come from there, but I am not condemned to live in a territory of pure succulents, where I am all pricked all the time." "No, no, precisely because I come from there, that's what I don't want anymore." "Not like that." No, enough, and up to here are words that a secure attachment person uses. An anxious attachment person doesn't use them because they say, "No, if I tell them no, they won't love me anymore." "I'd better endure it, I'd better endure it because it doesn't hurt that much anyway." I had a patient who told me how her boyfriend insulted her, minimized her, and every time she told me about an episode like this, she always ended by saying, "But Mario, nothing happens, and Mario, nothing happens." And one day I told her, at the end of a session, "You know what I would like? For something to happen in your life, because nothing ever happens. You know what I would like to happen? That one day you would say, 'Enough, no, that's it.' I can no longer allow this treatment. Why? Because I love myself, because I know I am a valuable person." "And why do you know you are a valuable person?" "Because I am me." Look at a nursery, select and tell me which baby is valuable and which baby is not. Do you understand? So, we shouldn't question our worth. We are people, we are sentient beings, we are living beings. We all deserve to be loved, we all deserve to be cherished. And whoever approaches us to hurt us, no, not like that, not like that, thank you very much. But this, this is not for me. That is secure attachment in action. Thank you for asking. Hello Mario, how are you? I am Daniel Montes de Oca. I thank you very much for the talk, I think it helps us a lot to know ourselves and to know why we make the decisions we make. My question would be, how does attachment influence our work decisions? Imagine a person who is constantly anxious, wondering if they are doing things right at work, if their boss is happy with them, if I am enough with what I am doing, if I have to give more, constantly comparing myself to others. No, he stayed longer, I should stay longer. No, he also works Saturdays and Sundays, I should work Saturdays and Sundays, I shouldn't be resting, I should be producing. These are the people who then feel a lot of guilt when they are on a holiday, when they think they should be catching up on work, because what will the boss say, how will my colleagues see me? Remember, for example, with anxious attachment style, there is a lot of this search for external validation, and then a boss, a superior, can be projected as the figure of a father or mother, whom I feel I have to please. Or maybe not, sometimes worse, sometimes I become conflictive at work. These are the people who suddenly you don't know how to approach them, because suddenly they are very cooperative, suddenly they don't talk to you, suddenly they react with a certain aggressiveness and violence, and you already know what they say. Sometimes we are hired for what we know and fired for who we are or the way we are. So, an attachment style can determine the way we relate. For example, an avoidant attachment person has a lot of difficulty forming teams and working in teams. And we see this from school. People who say, "Oh, I don't work in teams, what hell, I'd rather do everything myself, because others don't work, I do everything better alone." When mom tells you, "Hey, wasn't it teamwork?" "Yes, yes, yes, but I do it alone because I do it better and I want to get a good grade." So you do everything, and the others, "Well, well, if the other person is going to do everything." Why? Because you don't know how to work
As a team, because you can no longer trust others, because you think others will necessarily do it wrong, because you think you have to do everything, that it's better to be alone than in bad company, and that kind of thing. It's very hard to make friends at work, or you make friends with practically anyone and trust them too soon, or you don't trust them. So, let's imagine how these bonds influence our work performance, and also our relationships. For example, I think this phrase "I didn't come to work to make friends" was invented by someone with an avoidant attachment style, because you do make friends at work. That is, "I didn't come here to be liked by everyone." We are social beings, meaning, yes, it matters. The person with an avoidant attachment would say, "I don't care if they like me or dislike me." For example, a bad leader, calling a bad leader a person who doesn't manage their emotions well, curiously is the one who might say, "I don't care if I'm popular, what I say has to be done here." Oh, by the way, a father used to say that to a mother. "I don't care if you love me, as long as you fear me, it's enough." So, raising, forming, leading, or working under these schemes becomes something that not only perpetuates these states but can, through emotional co-regulation, infect other people with this, and it can also, in some way, affect our work performance, because ultimately we will think that I am doing everything well as expected, my satisfaction is not full. I will always think that I owe something, I will always think that I could have done better, I will always think that one day they will discover that I am a fraud, that I am not as they think. This famous impostor syndrome and all the things that derive from it. But the root of all this, even of our self-esteem, has to do with our attachment styles. Because if these examples sound familiar, suddenly, "Hey, this person seems to have low self-esteem, someone who wants to be compliant all the time." Yes, if that sounds familiar, yes, it's like that, because ultimately that's the foundation. Let's think of these attachment styles as the script and our life as a theater, and this is the stage where we perform. If we are always going to be playing our roles in these scripts, we should ask ourselves, "What character am I? What character were they assigned to me? Am I the eternally compliant one? Am I the loner who solves everything by myself? Am I the unstable one? Could I be the character of the crazy person who never knows how they will react? Or am I the person who can say, 'There are roles I don't want to play'?" And it's true that I remember a patient telling me, she had a boss, a team leader, who was, according to her, a very explosive and irascible person, but my patient was very vulnerable. I think a disorganized attachment style combined with an anxious attachment style came together there. And she always wanted to please her, but she couldn't please her. And since she couldn't please her, that boss always yelled at her and scolded her. And one day that lady, that leader, said to her, when she starts to... "It's just not possible that you don't deliver things to me as they are, I've told you many times." And my patient started to cry. And she said, "Oh, you're going to get emotional again." And she tells me in session, she says, "Mario told me that." I say, "Can you always respond? And you too. I get emotional towards distress, and you get emotional towards anger, because anger is also an emotion." Both of them were emotional. But how curious that we only recognize an emotional person when they cry. "Oh, you're very emotional." An angry person is an emotional person. A happy person is an emotional person. A curious person is an emotional person. Emotions move us. And so we have to recognize every emotion as part of our human experience. I know they've told us there are positive and negative emotions. And it's true, but negative ones aren't bad, just as positive ones aren't good. Like a raft, like a hammer, everything is useful in some context. And where sadness is appropriate, sadness is welcome. Where joy is appropriate, joy is welcomed with open arms. And where anger is appropriate for setting boundaries, you say, "Hey, no." "No, no, no, I don't like you talking to me this way. I don't like you yelling at me." But when you're very afraid that if you lose this job, you'll never get another one. Since you're very afraid that everyone will criticize you and see you as a conflictive person, better, as they say, "Quiet, I look prettier," because that way I don't make waves, but I swallow it, I endure it, I endure these thorns of this cactus and I suffer it. So we stay in jobs that are less than convenient for us. Sometimes we stay in places that don't align with what we want, that don't transport us to our better future, to our dreams, I'll put it that way. This can happen to us with an attachment style that is not an adequate attachment style. We tolerate or we jump from job to job. We don't find satisfaction. You change jobs six times a year, and one might say, "You're exploring." "Yes, but you're already 57 years old." Exploration has lasted a bit longer than it should have, because you haven't achieved stability. And then, if we go to romantic relationships as well, where you also say, "The same thing happens to me." This is a mirror, this stage is the same. Only the scenery changes. You can set the scenery of an office, the scenery of a family, whatever scenery you want. In the end, the problem is the scripts we've learned to read and that we follow, that's why we're repeating patterns. It doesn't matter if we put the Dalai Lama here and Gandhi here, it doesn't matter, we will cause them conflict if we don't have a healthy attachment style. Hello Mario, I have a question about how parents can heal their wounds so as not to pass them on to their children, and also a bit about how we as children can understand that process. Thank you for the question. It's complicated because wanting someone else to change implies that the other person first wants to change. But to want to change, you have to realize that something needs to be changed. Why do I tell you all this? Because for me, the word, the concept is humility. Humility that combats arrogance, that combats pride, and combats this idea that because I am your father or your mother, I know everything and you cannot question me about anything. Even if you are a small child or a 50-year-old person, I am your father, I am your mother, and I am unquestionable. It seems that the moment we have a child... Having a child is different from being parents because being parents is more active, having a child is a biological fact, but being parents is a whole process. But it happens that suddenly we seem to become omniscient beings upon the birth of a child. I am Mario Guerra here without a child, my first child is born, the next second, and I have already become someone unquestionable and a kind of God. No, humility, the humility to say... It's true, I also learned things. I learned many things from my father, many things from my mother that have served me greatly throughout my life. But I also have to recognize that I learned many things from them that are scars that I don't want to follow. That I don't want to follow because they don't suit me, because they were from another time, another era, or a different reality, or because they were from a different path than mine. And I am grateful for everything they taught me, but but I say, I'll keep this, and I won't keep that. But I will never be able to see that if I don't have this humility to ask myself what I am doing. We should approach our children and ask them. Not like I said a moment ago, when we give them this inventory. "Okay, what were you missing? House, food, toys, school, sports, you had everything." No, it's asking them, what do you feel you were missing? What would you like me to have done differently? What would you like me to do differently now? Mom, Dad, I would like you not to criticize my decisions. Mom, Dad, I would like you to feel that I have a little support. But of course, if the answer is, "Well, but how can I give you my support if it's all nonsense?" Well, then we're back to square one. How do you need my support? How do you need it? What do you need from me? Sometimes we think we have to give the big lesson, the big speech to our children, young or old. And it has happened to me that sometimes with a hug, things are resolved much better. But it's not because of hug therapy being so talked about, but because a hug transmits this, this acceptance. This "How can I not love you? How can I not love you despite your anger? Despite you coming and going. How can I not love you? There are things you do that I don't like, clearly. There are things I would like you to do differently. But I know I can't take that path, because that's your path. And I know you'll take many things with you. But then it would be this humility and this approach. Look, my new book is out, it's called "Just Leave Me Alone, Mom. And You Too, Dad." One says, "Of course, I'm going to buy it to set boundaries with my mother, and now she'll listen to me." "Just Leave Me Alone, Mom" doesn't mean "shut up and don't talk." "Just Leave Me Alone" isn't her, it isn't him. It's those internal voices we have now, that keep gnawing at our heads. When one is saying, "I'm going to do it now... but I'm doing it wrong, of course, what would my mom say in this case?" Think about many things you do. What would my mom say if she knew what I was doing? She would say that's not how you do it, she would say not like that, she would say it's better this way. She would give me her way of seeing the world. So, I think the most loving approach is always to say, "Dad, Mom, I'd like you to know me today, because you knew the person I was." Of course, you have photos there, you have photos at the fair, you have photos at my birthday. But you know what? I'm the age I am now, and I think I've changed, and I think you've changed too. And I'd like us to get to know each other, to recognize each other, to give each other the opportunity to get to know who we are today. But that only happens through conversations, through this approach, through this non-violent, non-threatening approach. "Oh, since I went to therapy, the therapist told me that you are the cause of all my misfortunes, and now you have to listen to me." Well, who wants to hear that? Frankly, I don't. Once with my own mother, my mom is still alive, she no longer remembers us because she sees us and asks us our names. She's 95 years old. And there she is. But one day, as an adult, we visited on weekends, we went to our parents' house, and one day at the table, my mom, as on any other day, was scolding us all. "It's that you this, you that, you the other." And I approached her and said, "Mom, I don't like you scolding me. I really like coming to see you and I really like being with you, but you scold me a lot about things I don't understand why. If there's something you'd like me to change, tell me, but I'm going to ask you not to scold me, because if you scold me so much, I'll keep coming, but I won't feel good, and I don't want to feel bad when I'm with you. I'm going to ask you, please, not to do it." There was silence at the table, all my siblings looking at my mom, looking at me, saying, "This is going to be a showdown." My mom looked at me and said, "Yes, okay." And from that day on, she never scolded me again. She did scold my siblings. That, right? Humility, loving boundaries. And I have to acknowledge my mother's humility at that moment, just as I have to acknowledge my father's humility, just as I also have to review my own humility, because I cannot be the omniscient father who knows everything, who never makes mistakes, although it's fun to play this role sometimes, but no. No, it's also about learning, but being willing. When one is not willing, it's much harder, and that's when one has to take distance to avoid further hurt and to avoid hurting ourselves further. Thank you for asking. My question is, can I gain an advantage from attachment and channel it towards something positive? Thank you. Yes, of course. Because we are going to have attachment. The question is how we are going to channel it, how we are going to channel it towards a space that is more useful, more benevolent, more beneficial for us and our world of relationships. Yes, fortunately, it is possible to change it. While it is true that attachment style is formed in childhood, in the early years of our life, through upbringing with our parents, it is not a condemnation, it is not an indelible tattoo. And even tattoos can be removed now, right? So, yes, it's possible, but we require several elements. The first is to have the awareness that something is not as I want it to be with me, something is happening. And that comes from identifying patterns. Let's see, why do I always end up with people who betray me? Why do I always run into cold and distant people? Why do I always run into people who abuse me? And one starts to think, is it bad luck? Or who is the common denominator in all those relationships? Is it me? And that's the first step. First, recognize what needs to be improved for this to start changing. Then comes, obviously, the will and the commitment. What do I have to do? Sometimes the help and support of a therapist can be the best idea, but sometimes even modeling, observing others. Suddenly you say, let's see, why is it that my partners always say I'm very manipulative and controlling? Let's observe. Of course, because five minutes after they don't answer, "Where are you? What are you doing? Let me see, send me a photo, proof of life, with whom?" And then I realize that the people around me, my friends, tell you, "Hey, where's your girlfriend?" And I say, "Well, she's at home." "But aren't you going to text her or what?" "No, well, I texted her a while ago." "And if she left?" "Well, she left." "But where did she go?" And you, "Well, I don't know." And you say, "What a strange person." But you start to look at others who do the same thing, and you say, "Oh, wow, is there another way to relate that isn't always asking for proof, asking for reinforcement, asking for constant validation?" The people we surround ourselves with become very important, and it's something that is rarely talked about, because we always seek this process, "Therapy for me, go to therapy." We are very good at sending people to therapy. "Go to therapy, you're really bad." We say in the mirror, "It would be very interesting." But we also have to understand that in a social context, in a cultural context, other people also influence. Of course, if you surround yourself with people who are, for example, so manipulative, controlling, or a bit paranoid like yourself, if you run into someone who says, "Hey, what are you doing?" "Well, texting my girlfriend to see where she is." "Yes, me too with mine." "Yes, let's see, what are you telling her?" "That she send me a photo." "You're right, send me a photo." Well, that doesn't help, because they are people who are feeding it. And here something happens that I use the word macabre for the matter. A person with secure attachment will not tend to relate to a person with anxious, avoidant, or disorganized attachment. A person with secure attachment feels more confident with a person with secure attachment. And what does that mean? Well, that people with anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment will relate to each other and feed each other, because the person with secure attachment says, "I don't understand this, I don't know why you're asking me this, why you're doing that, I'd better leave." They know how to set boundaries. So we would have to seek, procure for ourselves, not only the necessary reflection, this that we are doing, this self-knowledge of being able to identify with something of what we are discussing here, but also be willing to seek to change something in ourselves, either by asking for help. A person with secure attachment can also ask for help without any problem. It's not the one who says... I've had patients who, for example, their phone rings during therapy. "Mario, I'm going to answer." I say, "Answer, it's okay." They answer. "Yes, hello, I'm in a meeting. I'll call you later." "Oh, sorry, Mario, it's just that I don't want them to know I'm going to the shrink." And I say, "Thank you." And people who say, "Yes, I'm in my therapy right now, I'll call you in a moment." And they hang up the call. Right from there, where I don't have to be hiding it as if it were a defect. Look, we have to understand something. The way you relate, your relationship pattern, is not a personality defect. It's a style you had to develop to survive in the environment you survived, affectively, and that now is no longer useful in many contexts. We have to grow. I'm no longer wearing the little sailor suit I wore when I was three years old, because it no longer fits me. I no longer carry the raft when I go to the mountains, because it's no longer helpful. I have to dress differently, I have to carry different tools that can make my life easier, and be willing to do so. But also, very importantly, the people we surround ourselves with, the people we frequent. I sometimes say, "There are friends whom we can love very much, but we shouldn't follow their example." And we can love them a lot, and we can't change them either. But when one realizes that one can be a catalyst for change, not only for oneself, but unintentionally, in these co-regulation skills, being able to tell an anxious person, "Calm down, they'll probably answer your message soon, you just sent the message a minute ago, you don't know what they're doing." I sometimes tell people, when I get anxious people on the other end of the message, "Mario, I texted you." I tell them, "It's just that you don't know what I'm doing on this end, you don't know if I'm showering, if I'm eating, if I'm with a child, if I'm... You don't know what I'm doing on this end. Do you think someone would be on the other end frantically waiting to see when a message comes in? It's not like that, at least I have to take out my phone to answer it." So, starting to do this modeling of regulation in society also helps. We are people who sometimes... Look, as a result of the pandemic, anxiety worldwide increased by 20% and has not returned to pre-pandemic levels, and we don't know if it will. But anxiety doesn't come from thin air; it's us who, with anxious behaviors, can infect others with it. So, this regulation allows us to self-regulate and co-regulate, and that is one of the great things we can do. Besides seeking help when needed, that is always important, because there are people who say, "No, I'm ashamed, I should already..." because that's another form of disorganized attachment. "You should solve your problems yourself, you shouldn't ask anyone for help, what will the therapist know? They probably have worse problems than you." No, and we probably do too. On average, 70% of people abandon therapy in the third session and abandon it because they feel they are not changing. And I tell them, "And how are you going to feel that you are changing with three sessions?" This is a process, will there be relapses? Of course, there will be relapses. It would be ideal if we could say, "Okay, I've identified that I have an anxious attachment style, I've identified that I have an avoidant attachment style, very well, world, please stop, I'm going to fix my attachment style, nobody move, everything stay as it is, I'm going to fix my attachment style, and when I fix it, I'll unpause and we'll go back to life." It's not possible. And it's not necessary. I've heard people say, "We shouldn't relate to anyone, or have children, until we have a healthy attachment style." Well, we would have gone extinct by now. No, there are things we have to do along the way, there are things we have to do along the way, and we will relapse. But it's not the same to slam the door again when I'm angry and create a conflict with the person living in my house, as to slam the door again and come back and say, "Sorry, I slammed the door again because I'm angry, we already talked about how this is something I don't want to do, but we also talked about how it's costing me, but I want to apologize again for having done this, but this helps me remember that it's not something I want to do." That's the big difference, this awareness and this recognition. Yes, you will fall again, clearly you will fall again. How did we learn the fundamentals of life? How did you learn to walk? Did you just get up and walk saying, "Hey Mom, how are you, look"? How did we learn to speak? "A du, a da." We didn't learn to speak one day out of nowhere and say, "Mom, I want to recite a poem I just assimilated." How did we learn to eat? By getting dirty through trial and error, everything is trial and error. Well, learning a different attachment style is as important and as complex as learning to eat by yourself, as learning to walk, as learning something fundamental for life. Clearly, we will fall into old patterns, but those old patterns are not bad news; they are a reminder that we are advancing, they are a reminder that we are on the right track. "Mario, but how will it be a reminder of that?" Of course, because before, you would slam the door and not realize it and not even apologize. Today, you realize it, it makes you feel bad, you go back to apologize, and that reinforces the desire. "I need to modify this, I need to trust more, I need to take breaks, I need to take some space." That, but will we relapse? We will relapse, because remember this, it's like a rut, we will have to get out of the rut, but we will fall back in. But perseverance, and here's a word, as I said, with parents who need it, as parents, humility to recognize that there are things we have taught that are not the most fortunate, and in this case, the word is "perseverance." Perseverance is different from stubbornness, because stubbornness is wanting to do the same thing over and over again, wanting to get different results. Perseverance is doing one thing, and if that doesn't work, doing another, until you get the result you want. I had a North American teacher who told me, he said, "I once went to learn to ski," he told me, "I went to Aspen, and I wanted to ski, and I arrived very excited, because the first day I arrived, I didn't know how to ski, I saw how children, older people, men, women, launched themselves down the slope with their skis, and I said, 'No, that's it,' and I hired the best ski instructor." I went to that class, and he said, "Very well, put on your skis," I put on my skis, "Okay, buckle them up, very well, now unbuckle them," and the other one, "Okay," I unbuckled my skis, "Buckle them up again," I buckled my skis, "Unbuckle them again," and that was the entire lesson for the day. And he said, "But I want to ski," "That's why, this is the first lesson," "Okay," and the instructor told me, "Surely tomorrow I will learn to ski." I arrived, "Okay, buckle up your skis, very well, now take the poles, adjust the poles, very well, take off the poles, take off your skis, put on your skis again, put on your poles again." My instructor told me, "This guy is ripping me off, everyone, I see them launching themselves down the mountain skiing, the first class, and this one, the skis and poles, the third class, something similar, the fourth class is put on your skis, put on your poles, adjust them, now throw yourself on the ground, What? Throw yourself on the ground, sideways, shut up, now get up, now take off your skis, now take off your poles." And he said, "You know what? You're ripping me off, because I want to learn to ski." "Exactly, that's why you're here, tomorrow you'll finally be able to launch yourself down the slope." "I arrived the next day," he told me, "and I understood, I understood what was happening, because when I launched myself, I realized that all those who had launched themselves in the first session without learning anything else were lying there with a ski over there, a pole over there, legs up, everything was chaos. And I was able to go down, and yes, I fell, but my skis didn't come off, because I had buckled them well, and a pole came loose, but I was able to put it back on myself and reach the end, which almost no one else could do. Sometimes we want the result without going through the process, but falling implies, most importantly, how to know how to get up. And culturally, we are taught that we shouldn't fall, that we shouldn't go backward even to gain momentum, as they say. But I say, then, how do we learn? Tell that to a child. Doesn't this phrase exist, "If you're not going to do things right, it's better not to do them"? I say, who invented that? Tell that to a child learning to walk. "Ah, no, if you're not going to learn to walk right, it's better never to walk." Tell that to a child learning to speak. "Ah, if you're not going to learn to speak right, it's better never to speak, it's better never to eat by yourself." We would become parasitic beings. No, we don't do that. Why do we do it to ourselves? Why do we expect immediate results from ourselves? Well, because of our attachment style. "Of course, I'm already feeling foolish, I feel like I'm not progressing, I feel like others are doing better, I feel like everyone is doing well and I'm not, because, of course, my mother was right, I'm stubborn, I'm foolish, I have a stone head, I'm an ass." And those voices start again. And there we remember "Just leave me alone, Mom, and you too, Dad." Those are the internal voices that stay with us. So, yes, know that everything important in this life is learned through a process of trial and error. And that's how perfection is achieved. That's how we come out the other side, when it's not that we avoid falling, but when we learn to get up. That's the path. Thank you for asking. Hello, Mario, my name is Amanda. Nice to meet you. My question is focused on daily life. All the access to social networks, to the media, do you think it has changed the way of attachment? Look, I remember Paracelsus, a Swiss doctor from the Middle Ages, who said, "Everything is poison, nothing is poison, it all depends on the dose." I don't think social networks and the media have come to cause us anxiety, if not for the way we use them. It has been a vehicle to be close, in this distant communication, through instant messaging, and it strengthens that, an attachment bond. But it has also served as a vehicle for people who unleash their anxiety there, in this immediacy of social networks, in this sudden observation and decontextualization of a publication. "Why did you like that person? Where were you? Why were you happier in that photo?" I've had people who, for example, on their social media wall, have photos from a birthday with a previous partner. And then, suddenly, "No, it's just that why were you happier with him there? Why aren't you as happy with me? Because there it looks like you were enjoying it, with me you're suffering, right?" So, they have become a vehicle to give free rein to our anxieties, to our disorganized ways, but it's the way we use them. It's true, you said it, you hit the nail on the head with something very important. How is it possible that during the pandemic, in confinement, we were dying to go out and hug, celebrate, be with our loved ones? And suddenly, it seems we've forgotten that. We realize, for example, that today many people find it very difficult to express non-verbal emotions, with their face, for example, because they are children who have been raised in generations where there wasn't much of this anymore. It wasn't there anymore because now the eyes and the face are on the cell phone, they are no longer here. So now it's "Look, Mom, this dinosaur." "Oh, how nice it turned out." "Look, Dad, what I'm doing." "Oh, how fun." So there's no longer this part of "Wow, you drew a blue dinosaur! How great it turned out!" And the child's face like this, "Yes, it's true, I did it." This gesturing. We have been losing a lot of this in these generations precisely because we are very immersed. As they have told us that we are multitaskers. And the reality is that we can do two things at once, but the quality of those interactions diminishes greatly when it comes to being with someone, particularly with anyone. But with any young child, we should not, in their presence, unless it's truly imperative, be constantly attending to the cell phone. I know Reels are fun, but shouldn't what your child is doing be more fun? Shouldn't it be more fun? It's just that the sound of the toy cars isn't that fun. "Wow, this! Look at the cat with a hat! What a marvelous thing! Do you have a hat and it's a cat? No, so go away." So it seems the cat with the hat is more fun. And yes, it might be, but we also have a responsibility. What am I transmitting? What message am I sending? So it's not those networks. And one should be able to self-regulate. How many times have you wanted to talk to someone and you say something, "Hey, I want to tell you something," and the person is on their cell phone. And until the moment comes, you know what? "Forget it, I don't feel like telling you anymore." "But why, if I'm paying attention to you?" Yes, you have to pay attention, but you also have to make it seem like you're paying attention. Not just do it, but let the other person realize it. That's why I said before, it's as important to love as it is to know how to love. And knowing how to love is knowing how to transmit the love you feel in such a way that the other person receives it as love. This is how a healthy attachment style is founded. Knowing that I am important to the other person. Knowing that at this moment we are interacting, there is nothing more important than us. I understand that later I go to school, you go to work, and other things become important, but at the moment of our interaction, what we should prioritize is precisely that, this interaction between us. Later I'll go to the bathroom and there... Before, one used to take the newspaper, one takes the cell phone now. And there one can find out many things, but not when we are with another person. Not when we are interacting with friends. Not when we are interacting with children. Because networks are not poisonous; it's the dose. That's what makes a fundamental difference. And that's what can be the difference between a child's secure attachment style who comes to think or a girl who comes to think, "I am important, I am more important than the cat with the hat." That's what I want to transmit to the little ones. That there is nothing more important right now than you and I being together. Thank you for asking. Thank you. And the other thing too, human contact. For me, everything has changed, more so because of my age. I think the couple, the family, friends, human contact has been lost. Look, we have to understand something, because we are here today in Mexico. We are in Mexico, and you know how they say that Mexicans are very attached and very family-oriented. There is a cultural element in all of this. Remember that we learn everything from three fundamental sources: family, society, and culture. So, within the cultural framework we are in, there are cultures where children leave home at 16 to go to university to study. The United States is an example of this. And they separate very early from the family unit. In that culture, that's what is seen, that's what is promoted, and that's what happens normally. In our cultural environment, it's true that we are more attached to family. Sundays at grandma's house, when sometimes one says, "I don't want to go to grandma's house anymore," but when they tell you, "How many years will your grandmother live, you should go because then the day you go..." Here comes our emotional blackmail, and one says, "No, yes, yes, I have to see my grandmother." And so we go to grandma's every weekend, to be close, to be with family. And one has a good time. But one says, "Well, how do I know that these dynamics of being so attached to family aren't dynamics resulting from an anxious attachment style that leads me to be here just out of fear?" It's very easy. These dynamics that are a product of our culture, one enjoys them. One enjoys them and one is fine there. And one can say one day, "Look, I'm not coming to grandma's today because I have a meeting with my friends." And nothing major happens, it's more than saying, "Man, we'll miss you." And you, "Yes, I know, but next week I'll be there." Perfect, no problem. The problem is like, "What do you mean you're not coming? I hope, I hope that the next time you come, you'll still find me." Because I haven't felt well. So, when blackmail starts, when criticism starts, "How can you be like this, a bad son? You want to go to a party when your poor mother is here subjugated in the kitchen cooking for you and you want to leave her there? How is it possible that you don't eat her chile en nogada that she prepared with so much love for you? But I don't like chile en nogada." Well, you have to eat it to please your mother who prepared it with so much love. "Mom, I've already told you not to make chile en nogada." "Well, I made it with a lot of love and you're going to eat it, ungrateful." So, there you are, eating the chile en nogada that you don't even like, sort of arching your back, not because it's bad, it must be very good, but I don't like chile en nogada, but if they force me to eat it, well, then there's a problem. Because then they are conditioning me. Because then this disorganized attachment style comes in, where it's bad if you do, bad if you don't. If I eat it, I'll vomit, and if I don't eat it, I'm already a bad son. So I have to choose between my indigestion and my bad standing as a son to be happy in this family. So there we realize, beyond the cultural, that yes, we are family, we are close, generally Latinos are like that. When these conditionings, these veiled and not-so-veiled threats come, of "you have to be here because you can't miss it." Well, it just happened to me recently with a patient whose friend's mother died, and she was a very close family member of my patient's family. So, a member of my patient's family cannot go to the mass because they are traveling. And then they say, "What do you mean you're not going to Juanita's mass?" "Well, I'm somewhere else." "How unconscious, you knew the mass was today." "But I had to work." "Then it shows you didn't have affection." "You get to know friends well, and you know them in prison and the hospital." They've told us that many times, and I say, "No, well, I've met friends at parties." Frankly, no. And I've had friends, very good friends, who don't like going to the hospital for personal reasons and they are still my friends. And I have people I see every day and they aren't such good friends, and people I rarely see and they are my best friends. My best friend Iván lives in the Canary Islands, he's from the Canary Islands, and I met him while studying when I went to the Canary Islands to do a Master's in Thanatology. And he became my best friend, and he lives on the other side of the world, we don't see each other very often, but we are best friends despite that. Because those are the bonds, because the bond, as I said, is like an emotional tie that forms between two people, and that tie can stretch to the other side of the world or it might not form even when you are with the person next to you, even if you see them every day, if they are a person, for example, who avoids, if they are a person who rejects, if they are a person who is very afraid of forming bonds. It's not the distance, it's not the frequency, it's the quality of the bond that will determine the quality of our relationships. If we are family, we are attached, there's nothing wrong with that as long as attachment doesn't turn into fear, into conditioning, or into threats of abandonment or non-belonging, that's also true. Mario, it's a pleasure to meet you, and I want to ask you, how can I achieve self-sufficiency and happiness? Very well, thank you very much. Thank you for your question. Self-sufficiency and happiness. I believe that happiness is a process, not a destination, I've always thought so. If we think about emotional self-sufficiency, we would have to think about something. If we get the idea that being emotionally self-sufficient means I don't need anyone and I can handle everything alone, that's called avoidant attachment. Self-sufficiency implies being able to be surrounded by people but not depending entirely, entirely on any of them. Enjoying their presence knowing that that presence can be transient in our lives, like grandparents, parents, sometimes friends, even. But also knowing that we are there, and that we can also, at a given moment, seek help, the support of others, and also seek self-consolation. In the darkest moments, in the most difficult moments, we can even symbolically resort to our ancestors, invoke them. As a patient told me, I wish a higher power would come and take care of me. And I told him, look, I don't know if a higher power exists, but it seems that the higher power needs you to learn to take care of yourself. For him to take care of you, you need to be the instrument for it. So I think we could be self-sufficient by sharing, be self-sufficient and happy, knowing that we are here for the time we are here, that we enjoy ourselves, that we also have differences, but we resolve them, that we have problems, but we clarify them, that we talk, that we converse, that we give and that we also accept the apologies of the other. I knew a person who said, "Well, it's very easy for someone to ask for forgiveness and that's it." I thought, what else can they do if they stepped on you? They can't un-step on you. So, yes, obviously they ask for forgiveness and change their behavior, they are more careful next time. But we would also have to be receptive to that, to realize that there are people who love us very much and who can also hurt us. And that being interdependent doesn't make us more vulnerable, on the contrary, it makes us stronger. Having more people to rely on makes us stronger, and that doesn't take away our self-sufficiency or our independence. So we have to understand this, I said it at the beginning and I say it now, we don't have to aim for detachment. That is not possible or healthy. The attachment bond is a natural thing that occurs from birth, the search for love and protection and care. And we will continue to need it throughout our lives, but eventually, when we become adults, our primary source is self-bonding. We will be our primary source of love, care, and closeness and attachment, but we will do it through others. Because we heal through our bonds, we heal through our relationships. I don't ask someone to heal me, but I heal myself. But it's not healing from an illness, it's healing from lovelessness. It's being able to provide ourselves with loving environments, warm environments, close environments, where we feel welcome and also welcome others. And it doesn't matter if today you identify with the worst, the most terrible attachment style that could have existed on the face of the Earth. That is not a condemnation. If you decide to first recognize that you need to change, then seek the necessary help to do so, commit to the perseverance of change, and surround yourself with people who are more like the actors and characters you want to have on the stage of your life. Only then will we rewrite new scripts. We are grateful for what they taught us, we take what is good and does us good, and we let go of what does not allow us to grow. This is a great opportunity for everyone to identify how what they taught us was a vision of the world. But today we can develop a different vision, a vision of more hope, a vision of more love, a vision where not only I, but all those around me, are welcome in my life. Thank you for listening. Thank you all for being here.