Transcription
Welcome back to another episode of Do Business, Do Life. Today I'm joined by Triad's very own Nick Whitaker. Nick's a former adviser who's run over 250 seminars himself, and now he coaches advisers inside of Triad on how to make these events actually convert. Today, we're digging into the proven frameworks, the micro commitments, and the simple tweaks that can turn a seminar into a predictable growth engine for your business. And if you've ever wondered why some seminars fill calendars with quality appointments while others are straight up falling flat, this is the conversation you need to hear. Okay, let's dive in.
Welcome back to another episode of Do Business, Do Life. This one is a special one. We have Triad team member Nick Whitaker here with us today. Welcome to the show, Nick.
>> Hey, Brad. Well, man, um, we were talking kind of game planning internally and I know you've been super instrumental in helping a number of our members level up their presentation skills and I mean to the level like student geeking out on all of the different concepts and there's plenty of speaker trainers out there and what I love is you've taken really the best of and you've kind of packaged it together based on your experience as an adviser. So today we're just going to dive in super deep. Um it's only one sixth of the equation because we don't have hours and hours and hours, but we're going to drill down into the actual art of the presentation. And not only that, but a presentation that inspires, but also converts uh to appointments. So with that, maybe it could be helpful because you haven't always been an adviser coach. At one point, you were an adviser uh out in the trenches just like many of our viewers and listeners. So tell us how this whole story all started and then we'll dive into where it's taken you on the presentation side.
Yeah. So, it's been fun for me uh over the past four and a half years to take some of the things that I've learned and be able to help other firms. And I would say that uh number one, I'm like just always been a student uh of this in particular. And uh even today, I find myself when I have free time just kind of trying to consume content around speaking or it's like one of those things that when you really begin to know it, you pay attention in a different way. You talk to people that play football and it's almost like or played football and they watch a football game differently than the average person would.
>> It's a blessing and a curse because anytime that I see somebody speak, whether it's like an awards ceremony or uh a stand-up comedian or you go to church on Sunday, a lot of times I'm paying attention to the cues and and the speaking. And that came from me uh younger in life. I was really afraid of speaking to the point that I avoided at all costs. And when I got into the industry, I was in a family business and this was a necessary part of the business. When we got into seminars, one of the very first things that that I did was introduce the speaker who was my dad. And he handed me a sheet of paper, Brad, and he said, "Just take the sheet of paper up there and read it." And I had a microphone with me about halfway through the introduction. I had to put the sheet down because it was shaking so bad >> that it was making noise into the microphone. And somehow I went from that deathly afraid to it becoming my favorite thing all things live events being my favorite thing that I did uh as in the advisory business. So, it's been a cool um journey. I've seen a little of everything. I mean, people talk about projectors going out in the middle. Uh people shutting off the lights in the room unknowingly, the chef's kitchen going down at a dinner seminar and you don't have food. all of the things that you hear from adviserss like I had a chance to deal with and man it is challenging but it's also like a huge rush for me.
>> Yeah. It's almost you you made the analogy to sports and how you watch the game differently when you've played it and you've played the sport of public seminars. I think when you were an adviser what' you do 100 plus seminars in your career?
>> Well, in different ways I I was involved in probably 250 different ones. Um, and these would be anything from educational workshops at libraries, community centers, college campuses to dinner seminars at the local steakhouse. So, got to see a little bit of all the environments. Um, got to play different parts all along the way. But, um, really just found a passion for for all of them.
M well what's cool is I' I've seen the massive impact you've had on a number of triad members and I know u most of your coaching happens behind closed doors on private coaching sessions but I said you know I would love to just share this gift that you have with the world and I also know like from past podcasts I've done uh with speaking coaches a lot of our members and probably a lot of adviserss out there they kind of will take an episode like this that we're about ready to dive into and this is almost like pregame before they go present just so they're kind of, >> you know, refreshing the key points they need to hit, kind of the frameworks in their head before they actually go on stage. So, that's the goal of this conversation. It's going to be super rapid fire. So, if you're listening in or watching in, um, I'm going to have kind of Nick deconstruct the model and also know this is just really the tip of the iceberg, but we hope this serves you all. So Nick, if you were to say, "Here's the first thing I think about when coaching an adviser that's going into a presentation, how would you start to break that down?"
>> Yeah, it's really three parts, Brad. It's about creating connection in the beginning, delivering content that creates micro commitments and a conversion that helps people say, "Well, why wouldn't I do that?" And I think one of the biggest things here is that when you have a clear framework in your mind, you're able to stick to that framework that you know converts. Many times what adviserss do is they come out and they go, I think I'm going to try something totally different tonight. And it's because they get bored and that's human nature. That is the type of person that gives a presentation. But when you have the framework, you can operate in within the framework and be able to tweak things in a small way to get the results you desire.
>> I almost think about structure. The structure creates the ability to have a little bit of micro flexibility and creativity within the structure, but it's it's not like you're rewriting a different book every time you go up, right? These are like kind of the main chapters you need to hit.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. Exactly.
>> So So let's let's kind of break it down. So, okay, here's Brad. Never done a seminar before. Maybe I've done a few and the results have kind of been iffy. Um, >> yeah. >> Where would we dive in?
>> You know, Brad, there's there's two different types of uh live events that people do. >> One, if if they're trying to bring new prospects through the door, one is dinner seminars. And dinner seminars are still a big part of what we see many adviserss do. I actually went to chat GPT, everybody's favorite resource today, and I said, "How do most advisers get new clients?" And the funny thing was that this is number one, the thing that came up. So whether Chad GPT is right or not, um I think it's interesting that there's a lot of data out there that says those things still work. Second is educational workshops. And educational workshops can come through a nonprofit organization. It can come through your organization. Some firms set up their own nonprofit organization and those are a lot of times at libraries, community co uh community centers, college campuses and things like that. As you kick off your presentation, here's the biggest thing. You have to match the expectation of the audience. And what we found is that the expectation of the audience is different at a dinner seminar than it is an educational workshop. So, when you go to a dinner seminar, um Brad, you probably have gotten a mailer before for someone's dinner seminar. When you've gotten that mailer, what is most of the time there a picture of on the front?
>> The food.
>> The food. >> Normally a steak, >> right? >> It's almost always a nice juicy filt. >> And I will tell you that that's not a good or bad thing. It gets people there. And sometimes people will have great intentions. Sometimes people are really excited to have that free steak. So the one thing that we know about that type of event is people are expecting a little bit of a performance. And honestly, as law of reciprocity, because you gave them a stake, they're expecting you to ask them to come into the office or take the next step or whatever that looks like. So, as a result, the introduction here is a lot different than a library or a college campus to where they're coming with the premise of education first. So when you open up in these two places, the way that I would describe this, Brad, is if we start with the educational side, imagine you're going to a really great college. Let's imagine you're walking into Yale, Harvard, whatever that is. And you think about walking in and hearing from the profess professor. There's instant credibility that's associated with that establishment, right?
Mhm.
>> Well, many times for the individual that's speaking, they don't have that same level of credibility. So, one of the things that you have to do there is open to prove that you are a worthy instructor and educator for the evening. That you've helped instruct, educate, and lead a lot of people. and that a lot of times you have alignment with the organization that you're representing because you're on the same mission as they are. Now this is much different than a dinner seminar and many times what you find with a dinner seminar is you create remember that first step is creating connection we're creating connection through instructor on this side over here we're creating a little bit more of a connection as a human being and this comes through the best way of telling it is as a storyteller and the way that I would think about this is that your story needs to tell something about you and some of the best things that it can tell is to relate to the people in the room. So, this could be an example of how you grew up or whatever that looks like. Um, also it should reinforce that you figured out something they haven't. One of my favorite marketing books is by Seth Goden. He calls it the purple cow. He says he went on a vacation. He saw a cow in uh Scotland and they were all his whole family's like, "Oh my gosh, there's a cow." They drive another mile. there's more cows and then they're driving for another hour and then all of a sudden they don't even see the cows and a lot of times what dinner seminars become is just like the cows. And what he says is a purple cow is remarkable. And so at the beginning of the dinner seminar, one of the things that we want to create is connection, but we also want to create something that is remarkable that draws them to us. Now, we've helped a lot of people on this end. Brad, develop stories. Uh, a great firm down in North Carolina. Um, he went through, uh, this speaker went through something like pretty crazy to where he had a life journey >> and he developed the story. We helped him develop this amazing story that in the first five minutes, everybody in the audience, every single night gives him a round of applause because of what he accomplished in his life. And it's like, do you think those people are plugged into him? They're emotionally connected to that speaker. And as they go in to educate and inform, they go, "Oh, I want to hear. This is the type of person for me."
Okay. So, sounds like you kind of the fork in the road. We've got dinner seminars. We've got educational events. both public one to many sort of setups. >> Obviously different expectations to your point. >> Um, if we focus more on the dinner side because I'd say those are probably >> maybe we can as we go through you can say kind of what's the same what's different because I know kind of the the framework's probably not too different >> not too different from here. >> So so you have that connection.
>> Yeah. Now, you know, you you uh it's the old Steve Jobs rules of three. I think sometimes, you know, historically, I've seen the adviser with the slide deck, the PowerPoint slide deck that started as maybe 20, then they're like, "Oh, let's throw a couple more in." And it's like this. It's like this. I don't even It's like a hoarder's version of a PowerPoint slide where they've just gathered stuff over the last 10 years and it's like 120 deep and half of it doesn't even make sense. So, I know you've probably seen some of those. So, as we start to get into the body of the structure, the content that's sharing, what are some good rules of thumb so it's not the the slide deck from hell that never ends?
>> I want to give you a couple things because that is what most people do, Brad, is they jump straight to that and they wonder why the presenter is always the person that they go, can I see you when I come into the office? And yet there's this team of adviserss. And if you don't address this on the front end, you're going to get that every single day. The second thing is that if you don't give people the agenda for what's going to happen, some people might tune out at the wrong time.
>> So, two things that come after you connect in the story. Number one is to reinforce your purpose and your team. And if you do not let people know the purpose of why you're here and why you do what you do and the team that you've built to be able to deliver on that, you will always be faced with a challenge of your audience viewing you the same as every other financial advisor and that you the speaker are the only person that can deliver for them. So establishing this right out of the gates is really important. The second part is you have to give people the agenda. You have to get people almost like chapters in a book. They need to know how many chapters they are and they need to know how far along in the presentation. So, uh, Brad, I grew up in a small town, Illinois, and I went to this Baptist church. We had this pastor, Dr. Bob, and every single week he had an acronym, and I tell you what, as a young kid, it drove me insane because he'd be like one week it'd be like, "Heal, help those in need." And so, it was a small church, Brad. They didn't have three, four services. If Dr. Bob wanted to go for 30 minutes, he'd go for 30 minutes. But if Dr. Bob wanted to go for two hours, he would go for two hours. And so some weeks you'd be like, "Oh my gosh, we're on a we only got two letters left and we're only 15, 20 minutes in." Yes, it's going to be a short service today. Some weeks you'd kind of go like, "I need to settle in, >> right?"
Mhm.
>> Many presenters when they get to their seminar, they do not let people know how much they're going to cover, how long to pay attention, what they should be looking for. And if you don't set up the chapters in the book, what you will see many times is you get 30, 40 minutes through your presentation and Brad, people start standing up, people start going to the bathroom, people start to get antsy. And so setting the agenda before you get into the content is one of those things that if you're listening right now and you're not doing this and you're going to a seminar, like drop that in. Hey, we're going to cover three things here tonight. Here's what we're hoping to accomplish by the end of the evening.
>> What are your thoughts? I love that. And and back to the point you just made on team. I think what we see a lot at Triad um we see a lot of great founders that also are typically the lead adviser and you know we're on a mission to help them build a business bigger than them and I think a lot of advisers immediately think okay I need more advisors to sell right more sales advisors more cash registers to set up so more people can see us but they don't ever apply that to the marketing side the seminar side the truth is to your point we've seen a lot of firms where the guys running the appointments are not even at the seminar. And in fact, we've seen people that don't even run appointments run the seminar. Obviously, there's licensing and all of that stuff that has to be covered, >> but those two are not they do not have to be connected. And I love that you made the point on the team of you can literally have the best speakers manufacture appointments for the best adviserss and they might not be the same group of people. So, do you want to hit on that? Is there anything else just like advisor kind of misconceptions that might from the seminar to the appointment and team?
>> I just think it's a this is a lot of times is a limiting belief of that adviser that founder and what you find is that you can unlock all kinds of potential. Um we have founders that have first replaced them out of the prospecting and sales process appointments and they only did seminars. Then a little bit down the road we helped them hire, attract and find the right seminar speaker. they were able to work themselves out of that. Everybody talks about being a quote unquote COO or CEO in their business today, but a lot of times they're the chief marketing officer or a lot of times they are the rain maker. And if you truly want to get to that, what you have to have is a strategy to do this yourself, reinforce the team first, and then strategically replace yourself along the way. And the cool thing is that there are a lot of great adviserss out there. They're fantastic adviserss. They don't have the same passion as me. They their favorite thing was not going to the seminar at night. Their favorite thing was sitting face to face with people. And the good news is when you build a business the right way, a lot of times what you find is you may still want to sit down with the right people, but you can find ways to replace yourself >> in getting those seminars that create the leads and the growth for the company, the jet fuel for the company.
>> Yeah. and hence having a trainable repeatable framework and process for the actual seminar presentation. Right? So let's let's go to that. So we're getting I think now into the body of the content.
>> Yeah, that's exactly right.
>> Let's let's unpack that.
>> So the content here once again we got to have chapters in the book.
>> And there's a reason we have to have chapters in the book because we have to let people know where we're at in the book. But also we have to be able to organize our content a three-part structure. So when you get into a piece of content, let's imagine that we're going to talk about taxes, income, investments, whatever those things are, right? Maybe it's estate planning is one of those blocks, but we get into taxes. You have to set up this in such a way that your audience can easily digest it. And so no matter where you are in your presentation, if you're going into a new topic, Brad, there are going to be people that if you just start educating and peppering them with information, sometimes they'll say, "Brad, this is exactly why I came." But more times than not, there are people that go, "I'm not even sure if I need this."
>> Mhm.
>> That's not why I came here. I'm not sure that I even need to pay attention to this portion. So what the audience is asking themselves is you know why should I know this? We have to answer for the audience before we get in and start teaching when it comes to taxes. This is why everybody in the room should pay attention and not miss this part. Most presentations and Brad as many presentations I've given I've reviewed a lot more than that in the past four and a half years. The number one piece of feedback I get give in this situation is you lost your audience in that tax section before you even got going. So creating a hunk at the beginning.
>> I love that on that. Nick, if you were because you've actually watched videos and I know sometimes you actually have I know there's pointing the video at the presenter. There's also the pointing the video at the audience and watching the audience's reaction. What would be some tips if I'm an adviser that's speaking that I lost the audience? Like what what are some red flags the audience has lost?
>> Well, I don't know that you'll get direct audience uh audience participation that you're going to lose it because this is at the beginning of that content portion, >> but you can get cues if they are paying attention.
>> And so a good example of this um if you got into the tax section is how many of you believe taxes are going up? and then support that with information. How many of you believe taxes are going down? How many of you won't raise your hands no matter what I'm saying? So, keep it light, keep it fun, right? I hear a lot of people do that. And >> engages people.
>> Isn't it wild, too? Like those listening on audio, Nick's raising his hand as a cue, right?
>> Non-verbal. It is wild. I've sat through so many as well. Every time an advisor speaker raises their hand, you will literally You don't say, "Hey, raise your and they the audience literally naturally follows.
>> And um so some of those you've got what you say, you also have your non-verbals that are creating that connection, that interaction. Um anything else in the hook, whether it's something you say, something you do, emotion, where you're standing, how you're addressing the audience, that's going to help with that connection. The goal is that your hook speaks to every single person in the audience. Um Brad, one of the things that that we believe is like there are essential parts of a plan for retirement. And when you get into educating this part, it should be something that is essential for every single person in the room. So if you speak to this little thing that's only for people that have $200,000 or 2 million, it's like our goal is not to weed them out here. Our goal is to loop everybody in. So it should be almost like an inclusive way of drawing people in so that the people sitting on the fence are not unenrolling themselves as you get into teaching in this one area.
Mhm. I've seen and I I think I got this from you where you're basically layering it. You know, whether you don't have a financial plan, you just, you know, you're approaching retirement, you just haven't got there yet. You have a plan, it's got some dust on it, >> or literally you've got a plan and you're checking it every day because you're a market person, you know. Oh my gosh. >> But basically, you're you're you're layering it so everybody in the room is included, right? Is there a term you use for that or or how do you think about that?
>> No, I I think you're just you're just describing the range and you should describe the range a bunch of times. Um, one of the most important times that you're going to describe the range is when you get to the end because there will be people at the end that they may think that they already have a financial plan. So whether you've done no research on this before, you have what you think is a beginning of a plan or you feel like this is rock solid this content here, you're going to be able to take some information from this and strengthen the plan that you already have.
>> Okay. So let's we don't have time obviously to hit three big pieces of content.
>> Yeah. So if we just go section by section, it does not matter what you talk about Brown. What you have to have is a three-part framework. The first part is people have to answer for themselves, why should I pay attention? What should I why should I know this? The second part is what should I know about this? And so what should I know about this? Is it actually you delivering the content and the information? And the way that you want to break this down is a way that most people digest this. One, the first part is through a philosophy or a framework that is high enough level that people understand. A lot of times people just pop up charts and graphs and things like that. And what we see the people that are most effective here, they typically go to the whiteboard and when they talk about their philosophy, they have framework and they have story around it. This is a high enough level that whether it is the husband that is the engineer or the wife that's the engineer or the person that works the 9-to-f5 bluecollar job and says I just need help with this that philosophy and framework can be helpful for either one. So once you have the philosophy and framework the second part is you support that with an example. And so this is where case studies and validation of that come up. And so if you have this one two combo every single time something your philosophy and your stories that separate you from everybody else that also is like very valuable in terms of content and then it's supported with data and case study that for a lot of people is they go oh I'm just like that person that he described.
>> Let's go back to psychology here a bit. Um you mentioned whiteboard um or flip chart >> which kind of takes me back to being a student where you're sitting there in class, you're sitting down and the teacher's up on back in my day, way back in my day it was the chalkboard but um so so you kind of back in that student mindset again and I also know our industry has kind of manufactured some of these seminars like prean like oh here's the slide deck that everybody copies and swaps out the front logo for their company and the back logo for the directions to their office. Um, what's the difference from just a straight up sheer psychology which then goes into conversion between that where you're kind of organically creating the content versus flipping through a deck? What's your what are your thoughts there?
>> Uh, well, I think the quote is when you draw, you draw people in. And um, one of the things that we talk about here is dramatic demonstration. And so it's almost like you're pulling back the c curtain or you're revealing the story as you tell it. And so people are a lot more captive than as opposed to if you put a slide up.
>> And uh even if the slide builds, you know, it's like the numbers slide in or something like that. What we see is like a total different level of engagement. And it's almost like people's brains are wired differently that when you are telling that story and working through on the whiteboard, uh they hang on to that a lot more. In fact, um Brad, we just had somebody in to our uh home office here. And I did a big whiteboard for them yesterday. It was about an hour and a half long. And uh it was very in-depth. They came back and we asked them what their biggest takeaways were yesterday. And Brad, they kept going like this. And if you can't see, were they were drawing a triangle in the air and I could have talked about the details of all of this without I could have put it up on a slide. They would not have drawn the triangle.
>> So you have to give people the things and the way that they describe it. By the way, the mark if you know your philosophy and framework is working is when they come in and they say to you, Brad, that triangle thing you should did at the workshop, >> that's what brought us in. And so what we find is that a lot of the speakers that we work with, that is their gauge and they're seeing a lot more people come in saying that thing that you drew, that was a thing. In fact, a lot of times they bring in their papers and they they show their notes. And this is another thing, Brad. Are they are their notes the slides and the information?
>> No. Like 99% of the time, it's the drawing that the speaker did.
>> So, this just if this is a good gauge to see if people are paying attention and if they're seeing this as the most valuable thing in your presentation.
Mhm. The other thing you just spurred as I was thinking through this, I I'm just picturing I've seen you coach to this. I've also seen a lot of our members actually do it live and we we just had a scale summit where Dana presented his and it was a packed room. It was really cool to see that and he gave you a lot of credit and it was really fun. But basically, as I think about as you're engaging an audience, you're sitting there drawing and then you've got an audience that can Oh, hey. Yeah. And you can take questions. you can almost like cocreate it together when you're drawing.
>> Oh yeah, that's a good point. Let me add that up here versus a slide. It's static. I mean, it's like, well, uh, yeah, we can talk about it, but we're flipping to the next one. So, I I think there's that really cool interactive feature when you're drawing. That's awesome, too.
>> Yeah, that's where you want speak. Uh, if you can develop frameworks that people speak into. Our friend Michael Hyatt says people own what they help create.
M and um I think that's a really big thing because if you get if you notice for those of you that speak who is setting appointments a lot of the times it is the people that are interacting in your audience they feel like they're a part of it.
>> Okay. So let's go back to kind we're at the body of the content here.
>> Um >> what >> yeah so let's go back to this Brad. Why should I know this? What should I know about this? Third part cannot skip this and just pour through content. What should I do about this?
>> That's what the audience should be asking themselves. You get the end of the tax section. What should I do about this? Brad, there's no point in doing a seminar if your hope is that people's behaviors stay the same. So what we're looking for is them to make a small commitment in taking a step towards a better retirement or a better financial plan, whatever that thing looks like. So this really comes in three ways as you let people know what they should do about this. Uh like a tax plan. How many of you see the power in having a proactive tax strategy for your retirement? And once again, I'm raising my hand. I'm nodding my head. I'm getting people say, "Yeah, that's me. That's me. And that should almost be rhetorical at this point. This is where you want to engage people in what some people call a response sheet. I don't call it a response sheet, Brad. I call it a worksheet because response sheet is internal. We don't want people to think that they're we're shooting for responses. We want people to think that they should be working along with us.
>> So, a worksheet, this is where you want to engage that and say, "Hey, if you're one of those people that's raising your hand saying, "Yeah, I need to have a proactive tax strategy." I'm looking at the third box down here. develop a proactive tax strategy. So these these boxes on your worksheet, getting them to check those small boxes, there is power and psychology behind them picking up the pen. And once again, Brad, um the use of nonverbals. I am holding up my hand like I'm holding a pen in the air. If I'm the presenter, >> I am going to have a pen sitting on the podium or one of the front tables. Every time I ask somebody to pick up a pen, I am going to pick up the pen. I'm going to hold it in the air. I am going to wait until everyone else picks up the pen. Most people when they get through asking for action, as they go through asking for action, their pace picks up. When you ask people for action, your pace should slow down. And if everybody else is picking up the pen, I've seen some people that are really graceful with this. There's one person at the front of the room. He raised his hand, but he didn't pick up the pen. I just walk over with a pen and stand by him for a second and see if he picks up his pen with everybody else.
>> The people that are very comfortable with slowing down at this point get more of the commitments along the way.
>> Yeah. as I listen to this because there's a lot of adviserss out there, you and I have been doing this a while that like, oh, I'm going to go sell some people tonight at the seminar, right? I'm going to close some appointments. And actually what it feels a lot more like you're explaining is yes it is sales but it's almost like I'm walking you through an educational process almost like tutoring them like the teacher in the room where it's like hey >> if you think if you're not sure you have a proactive tax strategy and by the way here was one thing we talked about tonight this one thing is the difference between hundreds of thousands of potential dollars either in your in your pocket or Uncle Sam's pocket. Your choice. If you think you might want to make sure you're covered there, pick up your pen and it's like a tutor saying, "Hey, here I'm working through the homework with you." I love that you call it a worksheet. That's awesome.
>> So, what other thoughts, >> Brad, is we've got to get these commitments. Um because at at the end, we don't want to convince people. We want them to acknowledge that they want help in these areas.
Mhm.
>> Uh when we work on sales process training, one of the things that we talk about is people can argue with your words, but they won't argue with their own. So if it's you shared this with me, you told me by checking this box, >> then you're not saying, >> "Oh, I'm going to try to convince you." You're saying, "No, this is what you told me. Let me tell you the next step." If you're one of these people, >> yeah, this is this is where you've identified you need help and you're not sure. So hey, love to dive in there. Um the other thing that you're doing because I've seen this as well, the big close, you know, and where people don't get these micro commitments and then it's almost like they're like take the deep breath and like, oh, here we go. Better dive in and see if anybody takes me up on it. And they save it till the very end and they close and then they're like >> hoping that the fish jump in the boat. What I hear you saying is there should be micro commitments all the way through to where by the time you get at the end, it's super obvious. It's like, hey, here, here, and here. >> If you wrote down you need help, we can help. Here's the next step. So, give me the difference because I I've seen historically in finance almost like these bad habits that were trained into people that you almost have to untrain.
>> Well, I think a couple things. A lot of times people um here's what we find, Brad. There's three types of people in your room. There are people that are desperate for help. You could say whatever you want. They are just like, "Help me. I need help." You can, it's not very hard to get those appointments. Um, there are people in your room that are the exact opposite of that. They go, "Roose Chris Steakhouse. Bingo. I got Roose Chris this week. I got seasons 23 next week. Oh, yeah. Perry's the week after that." They have no hope of uh or no desire to become a client. They just want a free meal.
>> The interesting thing, Brad, is there is the third in the middle. And the middle is the most important part. I almost think of this as in an election you have what are called swing states.
>> You know, Ohio, Wisconsin, Arizona, Florida. Some people call them the battleground states. And the reason for that is a lot of the other things are if you just do what you do always, the election will turn out a particular way. And the success of the election all hinges on the people that are in the middle. And so as you think about this, how do you cater to those people that are uncertain uncertain if they should take the next step? A lot of times what people do is they they almost disqualify some of the uncertain people.
>> And I got to be honest with you, Brad, I'm not somebody myself that would, you know, step into a dinner seminar without a little trepidation of I'm not really sure if I need your help or I need help at all.
>> And so I can really relate to that. So what you end up seeing a lot of times is because people are so strong to disqualify others, they only end up with onethird of the room. And so many times what it looks like is Brad, the the room's evenly distributed. One/ird is yes, one/3 is no, one-third is may. And so as you get into your presentation, are you enrolling as many people as possible so that you get the yeses and the may? And if your numbers look something like this to where you look at your your numbers over the last year and you're only getting 30%. This tells you where your biggest opportunity is.
What What are some of those benchmarks where you would say, "Hey, if if you're below this level, that's that might be a symptom of something's broken in the seminar." Like if you went kind of top to bottom one.
>> Yeah. Well, when you see people that are 2030, uh, sometimes 40%, you typically find that they they have left opportunity on the table. They aren't helping those people that are uncertain.
>> That's number one. Number two is Brad,
>> 20, 30, 40 of the the appointments. Okay. Yep.
>> Yeah, that's right.
>> Where would you like to see that? What what what is like hey some of our our members that have been students that have really implemented a ton of the stuff where where are they coming in at?
>> Okay, I got to you were talking about Dana earlier. Dana, awesome guy, awesome student. He's done all the work and uh Dana has been doing seminars for 15 years. He's done tons of them and he did it a different way to where it was almost like unenroll everybody that doesn't, you know, is not going to be like shooting fish in a barrel. And um here's what he found from those people over the past like 14 years was those people came in and they were highly transactional. They were smaller case sizes. He we changed how he delivers this seminar. He goes, "Nick, the exact same audience is coming, but I'm setting appointments with a different part of the audience." He goes, "Those people that had 2 million, three million, 4 million, $5 million." He goes, "They never came in before. They never had any interest before." He said, "How I've changed this. Look, those same people that were quote unquote the ideal customer before, they're still coming, but I'm setting the I'm setting the appointments with these people over here." So Brad, everybody talks about conversion numbers, and I think conversion numbers are important, but ultimately, we want to make sure that we're getting the right people into the office with the right intention. We're not trying to convince them. We're not trying to Here's what I see all the time. Hey, come in and we'll give you a social security maximization report or come in and we'll give you this uh tax minimization strategy report that we can run for you in 30 minutes or less. And what we find is that if you're trying to work your way upstream, and Brad, I I think you know this, but tons of firms that have brought on $10 million plus clients this year, and they've never done that before in their practice. for them. They have found it's just a different approach and they need to speak directly to those people and it's more important for them to get those people in as opposed to trying to get as many of the transactional customers. So what they lead with um we talk about this what they uh what brings them to you is what they expect from you. If you say social security maximization report is what you want to come in for, people are going to come in looking for that. But if you say, "Hey, what we're going to help you do is strengthen these areas of your plan for retirement and we believe in a holistic plan. It's not this language that is like way too generalized. Then at least people are coming in for that intention instead of some free report."
>> The the other thing I want to go back, you hit this at the beginning with kind of the opening and referencing the team. The other thing is when you're saying, "Hey, when you come in, we're deleting the word I." So, can you can you share the why behind that? And then how that obviously flows into the appointments.
>> Yeah, there's there's no more I. There's only we. Um, and the best reason for that is that when you have a great big specialized team, there's power in that team. And you want to help people paint a picture of what it's going to be like. It's almost like if you're telling people to come into the office, Brad, they 100% of the time have a movie rolling in their mind. They are picturing themselves. Am I drive? Oh, yeah. I'm driving to the office this way. I picture walking through the doors. For some people, if you do not help them play the movie in their mind, for some people, it will be the the most exciting thing that they've done for their retirement. For some people, they picture it as a nightmare. They picture it as pressure. They They picture it as, "Oh my gosh, that person's going to tell me I did everything wrong."
>> So, you have to help people paint the picture along the way.
>> Perfect. Okay. Anything else on kind of the the content where you're getting the micro commitments uh before we get to the next phase?
>> No, Brad, I think as we get beyond the content, here's one of the things that I've learned along the way, which is, man, if people don't pay attention to different forms of content, they're really missing out. Um, a a good example of this would be like standup comedy. >> Standup comedy has a beginning, has a middle, has an end. You get live feedback on the spot. I mentioned like going to church. There's only one person on the planet that has to give 52 different seminars every single year. It's a pastor and the best like they're they're exceptional at what they do. The third one is YouTube. Like how in the world does Mr. Beast have a multibillion dollar company today because he creates content that people hang on to every word and they watch every single time. There's a lot that you can learn from those. And one of the biggest things with YouTube that I have seen is that in YouTube transitions are everything. When you transition, you will either uh keep people and draw them closer or you will lose them. And when you do have unclear transitions, in other words, you're going from content to closing. A lot of times this all of a sudden becomes uncomfortable for the presenter. He goes, "Oh, I was felt really good educating." And then they feel the pressure of sales. And they end up like their body langu language changes, their pace changes, and how they come off totally changes as well. And this is really critical. If you're not converting, one of the biggest things that you can
Do, Brad, is record yourself. Like I just, how many professional sports teams do not watch game film? Not many that I know of.
And think about what's on the line. I mean, you're talking probably $68, $10,000 mailer, the meal cost, uh, the revenue that's driving your business, and it's like, but you're not practicing. It's like the Allen Iverson practice, you know? It's like, we got to practice here.
Okay, so Brad, if you, here's what I get. I get it. You can't watch every single one. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. So, I want to give you, if you do record, what is the number one spot you should go back and watch? Your transition from the content to the close. Because if you start to get more comfortable and fluid and confident in this one area, you will take people from creating these small commitments to turning those small commitments into what they want to come in and solve as they sit down with you in a first visit in the next 10 days.
So, as you get into this, Brad, what we have to do is once again re-engage people. Have them pick up their pen. We're going to do this as a group together and go through the worksheet. And one of the things that you want to help them do is if we have those small checkboxes along the way, which creates those micro-commitments, we want to let them know this is what we're going to be able to help them with when they come into the office. And the principle here, as you describe your offer, Brad, should be: come with a little and leave with a lot. That's just the easiest way to think about that. It almost becomes like, why wouldn't I?
What some people do is they raise the bar so high, like, "Hey, you're going to have to bring in your last 30 years' tax reports. You might as well bring in a blood sample while you're at it." And people are like, "Yeah, I, I'm..." And here's what you'll hear from those people. "Well, I got a vacation coming up, right?" So, what we need to do is lower the bar. Lower the bar. Lower the bar. Lower the bar at the point of asking for the appointment so that it's very little that we're asking for, but the reward for them coming in and taking the next step is very high. That's a common problem where I get it as an advisor. You want to make stuff easy on your side. It's a lot easier if they bring in 20 years' worth of statements. And also,
I mean, I, we just moved. I'm like, "Where the hell are the statements at? I got to find them, you know?" So, so I think not creating hurdles in front of the next step that you want is, it's like basic human psychology. But I see it to your point so often where it's like, "Here's all the 17 things you need to do to come in and see us."
Um, I want to go back to the worksheet. Now, obviously, at Triad, we've got a really refined worksheet that we help build for our members. But if someone's out there listening or watching and they're not a Triad member, what would be some core non-negotiables on that worksheet that you keep referencing they should be walking through?
Uh, here's the easiest way to think about it, Brad. I'm sure that as you look back on your podcast and people have had success or people coached to this, they say, "Like, you should have a specific way you do things that differentiates you from everybody else." As you look at those checkboxes, they shouldn't be like, "Real, um, odd things." They should be core components of your proprietary process, your unique way of doing things. Because when you engage people with that and they say, "That's what I want." It's very easy to say, "Well, that's the product that we have."
Mhm. So, we didn't get into this, um, during the content, but one of the things that I would reference is like, if you're in the tax section, "Hey, when we build proactive plans for our clients, what we find is this is 20% of a comprehensive plan. And without that, it's fine. It just, many times, what we see is the plan is incomplete."
So, this is exactly why we build it in the plans that we do. The reason you do this is because your ideas become tangible. Brad, it's really hard to sell ideas. Um, if anybody's ever watched Shark Tank, how many people have ever come without a sample?
Right? Well, they, they'd kick them out of the room if they did.
I've seen, yeah, I've seen it happen. And I will tell you that those people almost get like scoffed at. Like, "What do you mean you came without a sample?" Why do we think that, you know, financial advisors, because we have knowledge, that we shouldn't turn that into a product? It shouldn't be tangible. It doesn't matter if you're a Shark Tank investor or you're a person preparing for retirement. What you want to see is all these ideas are turned into a tangible product. Well, on that note, I don't, I, I would say, pri, I mean, I'm not going to, I know the Triad membership, obviously, we coach to this. So, obviously, we have essentially everybody in our crew has a sample. But I will say industry-wide, I would say 90% of the seminars I've watched have no sample. It's literally,
They're, it's almost like they're describing the product. "Imagine how amazing this could be." And you're like, "Well, what is it?" You know? And, and, and so I know we basically, um, not only will we have a physical sample that you're referencing, holding up, opening, "Oh, here in this section where we talk about tax opportunities," and you're opening it just like the book we talked about, but we're also, we haven't really talked about this, we're helping also name, trademark, create their proprietary version of what their financial plan is. Because also, if you're up there and you're an advisor just saying, "Hey, when you come in and we build a financial plan, guess what?"
So does every other advisor in America. They build a financial plan.
Yeah. So, I know that's something we haven't hit on a lot, but they're weaving in the name of, you know, as we call it, their, their Big Mac, you know, their proprietary product.
Um, I wanted to make sure we point that out because that's so important. So, back to the sample. One other little nugget here.
Yeah, please. The speaker, as they get to the end, one of the things that they should do is not just disappear afterwards. If you're disappearing, you're missing a big opportunity. Because sometimes people will be on the fence. You just going around and saying a few quick words to them, uh, we have found time and time again has helped capture maybe one more appointment per night. But I tell you what, you do 30 nights, then it turns into a really big number of total extra appointments. So, um, setting the frame of like, "Hey, I'm going to come around real quick, answer any lingering questions. I need to get home, tuck my kids into bed. Really appreciate all you guys coming here tonight." Go table by table. Anybody starts peppering you, you get to engineer. I was watching a presentation recently and, uh, the speaker did an amazing job. He's like, "Yeah, these are the kinds of questions we answer when you come in the office. When are you coming in?" And the guy goes, "Oh, I don't think I've come in." He goes, "Well, great. Sounds like you need to." That's awesome. And so the guy checked the box and came in. And, um, look, like, don't be embarrassed to be proud of how you can help people. People sense conviction. They sense commitment. People also smell sales breath. And there's a big difference between the two, Brad. So, as we're talking about this proprietary planning thing, like you've built this great team, you've invested all this effort, have some belief that this is the thing that could help those people that you're talking to.
So, as you're going around and you're, you're talking to the audience, the best thing that you can do is hold your product as you walk around. And if this is a binder or whatever that thing is, just carry it with you. And we've helped a lot of others do this. And inevitably, what they come back and say is, "The people said, 'Hey, can I take a look at that?'" And the answer is yes, but you need to become Vanna White. In other words, the engineer person is going to want to scrutinize every number on every single page. He's going to have it for 35 minutes. Just hold it out to the side, demonstrate it and say, "Hey, these are the kinds of things that we're going to go through." So, I just want to make sure people get that because it has made a difference for a lot of presenters as they go.
Um, you hit two things I want to really hone in on there. You said the word belief.
And, you know, what's interesting about that? Um, you know, one of the things we talk about at Triad is sales is a transfer of belief. That's essentially what it is. And if you think about it, whether it's that pair of shoes, you believe they're either going to make you look good, you're going to, you know, be more comfortable when you walk. There's some belief that you have to purchase them. And I, you know, it's amazing how many advisors I've seen, they're selling something they don't believe in because there, there isn't that belief. And so that's where it all starts. If there is no belief, you, if you don't believe in what you've got, you sure can't transfer it to somebody else. So, I just think that that was such a simple statement but profound because that is where it all starts. Like, none of the rest of everything you just talked about matters if you don't believe in what you have to offer in the first place. So,
I wanted to call that out. Second thing I want to ask you, I have seen these schools of thought, the speakers where it's like, as soon as you're done speaking, Elvis has left the building. You know, he's, because, because it's this idea of like, "Here's this image we want to portray." Um, where, you know, this is like Tony Robbins and he's inaccessible or whatever. Um, play the other side of that coin. Why that hurts them, if you don't mind.
People are human, and they want connection. I think that it's as simple as that. Look, like the best person that you could possibly be here would be somebody that is truly helpful, has figured out things that the audience hasn't, and you're helping guide those people towards that. But by the way, you're genuinely like a person that they would want to spend time with as well. I'm not saying, Brad, that it's, you, you have to spend tons of time with them. I don't think that you should give people inordinate amount of time.
Yeah, but I do think that if you show up as somebody that's really smart, really helpful, but also genuinely cares for people, that's probably the best combination.
Yeah. So, what this means is instead of disappearing like Houdini, as soon as your presentation gets done, it's literally 10 more minutes for your night, which could be the one appointment. Think about the revenue that drives for any advisor out there. That's a well-spent 10 minutes if you're generating one more appointment.
The, the other thing where my head goes, because I get it, you know, like the, um, the rock star, there's a reason that they walk off stage and they're inaccessible, but they're not in the financial services business. They're not, they don't have the next day where they're trying to meet people for appointments to drive revenue. It's like they're on to the next gig, you know? And so that form of connection and relationship, which is so important in our space. I just think about what that shows, like back to like a teacher. We've talked, "Hey, this is kind of like a tutoring session." A great teacher is going to come around and check on your homework and say, "Hey, um, yeah, how'd it go? Oh, looks like you need some help there." They ask a question.
"Hey, that's, that's what I was talking about. That would make a lot of sense to come in and talk about your individual scenario there, and I'd be happy to spend some time there with you." It just, it naturally makes sense when you unpack it, you know.
Hey Brad, here's the perspective here. How would a leader show up? That's just the bottom line. Like, if people could view you as a leader, what could you do to show up in a way that they would view you as that? And I think that means that you do have some authority, but it also means that, um, you know, there's like this, just this respect, not arrogance.
Yeah. And it's like, how would you want your grandma treated? I think that's always a good rule in this business. It's like, you know, if your grandma went to a dinner seminar, you'd, you'd hope the person cares at the front of the stage. Obviously, you'd hope they they are good at building financial plans. Um, but you would want them to like walk over to a table and say, "Hey, how'd it go? Need help with anything?" "Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, absolutely. Come on in."
Yeah, 100%. And by the way, this also works in the real world. I know Anthony Pellegrino, who's been a, a past podcast guest a couple of times, um, one of the things that he recommended is exactly what you're talking about, and he does this masterfully. And he's,
I do you have any idea how many additional appointments he typically picks up when he's doing this? Because I, I know it's at least,
a cheat code. Brad, he's Italian. And like, if you're not Italian, sorry, you've got an uphill battle compared to Anthony, because he's got that wink-wink kind of charm.
Wink-wink, elbow grab. That's the move. Yeah. And I tell you what, um, a couple years ago, I did get a chance to watch one of his seminars. He had somebody that walked out and gives him a great big hug at the end of the presentation. I go, "Anthony, is that one of your clients?" He goes, "No." He goes, "She's got two and a half million dollars and she wants to bring it in, talk with one of our advisors next week." I tell you what, like that was the kind of connection that he was making with those people, anchoring all the way back to the story that he opened with as he carried it through, delivered and connected with people as he delivered the content, but also as he closed. The people go, "Yes, he believes in this for me 100%." And I, I've had the, the, uh, joy, really the joy of watching Anthony present live, and it is,
it's intoxicating because, because he is so, his level of connection with the audience, back to like a great stand-up comedian, like you referenced before.
Yeah. He has tested his content. He has refined his content. And it is there to serve the audience. Um, and by the way, actually, now you reminded me of one other thing that that Anthony does. He's got this little voice memo game that he plays before and after the seminar. So, you want to share that hack with everybody?
I think it's a smart one. All he does is as soon as he walks out, his hand hits the door in the car, he pulls out his phone, pulls up a voice note, and he says back to himself all the things that went well, all the things that he needed to improve. Because a lot of times people do Tuesday, Thursday, or they do consecutive nights. Then, as he drives the next night, he pulls up the most recent one. Or maybe he's had a month break. He'll go back and listen to the most recent couple, and it's almost just like a reminder of how to get back in form. I grew up playing golf. You always tried to have one or two swing thoughts as you went into a round. And what Anthony is doing with those voice memos is he's trying to create the swing thoughts for his presentation.
Yeah. He's, he's literally downloading instantaneous while it's still fresh in his mind and then he's listening to it on the way to his next one. "Oh, don't forget to throw that story in. Oh, when I hit this, it really went well." And so I just, he's priming the pump, basically, you know, for the, for the presentation.
Yeah. Um, all right, my man. As far as the actual, any other mechanics, frameworks, uh, before we wrap here that you want to make sure to include for the audience?
The only last thing I'd say, Brad, is sometimes you get to the end, you've got people that you've given them enough data to make a decision, and they make decisions based off of data. And that's great, but you got to remember, I would almost argue that more people don't make a decision that way. More people make a decision with their gut. And so, as you get to the end, you can go through all the checkboxes. You can tell them all the analytical reasons, but you probably should close with some type of way of connecting. And a lot of times the best way to do that is to connect the story that you began with. So, we were talking about stand-up comedy. Um, Dave Chappelle, probably one of the best stand-up comedians of all time. He had a Netflix special to where I believe it was the four times that he met O.J. Simpson. So, he opens up his bit, he comes out on stage. He's like, "Let me tell you about the four times I met O.J. Simpson." And he tells about the first time, and then he moves on to some other bits, and then it pops up in the middle, and you get to the very end. He goes, "And that was the fourth time I met O.J. Simpson." And the whole audience is like, "Oh my gosh, he just brought it full circle." So, as you get to the end, whether you complete the story like Dave Chappelle did, or you just go back in a way to connect to the audience, don't forget how and why people make decisions. And many times they'll make a decision based off of, "This feels right for me."
Love it, my man. Well, um, I, I have to say on a personal front, um, I know you and Shawn knew each other, uh, because you worked together, you know, you were the advisor client of Sean's. And I really got to know you just as I was leaving the prior gig, and Shawn, I remember he came in one day, he's like, "Man, I think I think I got our first hire on the coaching side." And I'm like, "Who is it?" He's like, "Well, he used to be an advisor, but he wants to be a coach now." And so he kind of told the Nick Whitaker story, and you had actually done a little livestream with me when during COVID, right? Where you were really walking through a call campaign that you and Sean had worked on and the success you'd had as an advisor. And man, it's just been so freaking cool to grow this thing together with you. It's been a wild ride so far.
But I just want to thank you for all that you've poured in, not only to Triad, but our members. Like, our members love you. You, you go above and beyond for them, and it's easy to see the passion on here, man. Um, this isn't a job to you, man. You, you live it, you breathe it, and, uh, just want to say thanks because it's been an awesome ride, and I, I don't know what I'd do without you.
Well, I appreciate it too, man. It's been great for us to, uh, get to know each other better, and honestly, for me, it's been probably like one of my biggest blessings in life. Um, I, I had a chance to become successful as an advisor. Had a ton of fun in that chapter, but honestly, it was not something that when I did it every day, it was, didn't, it didn't feel as fulfilling as possible. And I think this relates to people that are giving presentations because, Brad, a lot of times people go, "Well, I don't understand why I'm not successful." It's like, you hate doing this.
Um, so I think there's two ways to approach that. Number one is to find a way to make it fun, enjoyable, like a way. I believe there is a way to develop passion. But a lot of times, when you're doing very difficult things, uh, the best place to start is something that you're already passionate about. And what I find is in the last four years, like my biggest blessing is that I was able to step into something that I wasn't trying to develop passion. I already had it.
Mhm. And so it's been really cool just to get here, come grow, learn, work around amazing team. Like, a lot of my closest friends today are are people on our team and members in the Triad community. I consider that just to be a huge blessing.
Yeah, it's fun, man. That's why I fell in love with this business. It's the people at the end of the day. But the ones, the ones beside you on the team, and the ones externally that we're trying to help and grow and get where they want to go. So, well, my man, this has been a fun quick download. I hope it served the advisor audience out there. Put this thing on repeat before your next live event. I promise it'll help you tune it up. And Nick, uh, until next time, my man.
All right. Thanks, Brad.
All right. We'll see you.
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